Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Jessica McGuigan on financial education, and why financial planning is a great career for women.

Transcript

Jessica McGuigan on financial education, and why financial planning is a great career for women. · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest is Jessica McWiggin, rising star at the Women in Financial Advice Awards 2019, Young Achiever Award winner from the CII in 2020.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: She's the founder of She Got Wealth, and she's a Critchley's financial planner.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Jessica will tell you that she had an unconventional start to her career.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: At 19 years old, she fell pregnant.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: She got a job working within a financial planning practice in the post room for six weeks.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Fast forward five years, she's now a financial planner at the firm.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And today she shares why she believes financial planning is the perfect career for women who also want to raise a family.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about her personal journey from postroom to financial advisor.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about financial education and how she got wealth is about putting education out there for everybody, not just high net worth clients.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Jessica, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really good, thank you.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: I've been really looking forward to today.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: No worries.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've um obviously seen you on social media.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're quite active on there and you know, and on Instagram as well.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm always keen, always willing to get women on the podcast because I think we need more women within financial planning in general and um more women talking about the profession and why you're in it and what you love about it.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, again, thank you so much for joining me today to share your story.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, we'll inspire some people already in financial planning or those thinking about getting into the profession.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start at the very beginning, Jessica.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um let's talk about how you got into financial planning because you're currently working at um Crichley's, isn't it?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: As a financial planner, but it didn't start out that way, did it?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if you take us all the way back to the beginning, how you got into the profession, all the way to financial planner, tell us your story.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no problem.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: So um I had a little bit of an unconventional start, I think, my um my career.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't actually um finish school.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: So um after I left school, I had no idea what I wanted to do.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't go to university.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was a bit of a fish out of water, and I actually started working in sort of hospitality in um bars and nightclubs and things like that.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I actually fell pregnant um with my with my son, age about 19.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that put put everything on hold and put any sort of desire or or any knowledge or path um on the back burner.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I continued working sort of um as he was a baby in in bars and things like that.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and then actually my dad owns a financial planning business, and he offered for me to come and basically work um as a temp um for six weeks, sort of just doing a bit of scanning for him while I think his admin lady was off.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I started out yeah on a six-week temp.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that six weeks turned into six months.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I decided that I wanted to sort of get my qualifications done.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: I picked things up really quickly.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: I just fell in love with the role straight away.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it was always seeing clients sort of through through a screen.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: So um I moved into becoming a power planner.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and again, so so managed to start to have these, build up these current relationships, but all through a screen still, um, due to just how we'd communicate.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then um qualified sort of about three years later, and um moved into an advisory role and haven't looked back since.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so a very brief overview there of how you became a financial planner.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much for sharing that.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: What we're going to do is delve a little bit deeper into that.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: A few things I can see that are kind of not conventional, and you absolutely said that, you know, you left school at a very young age, you left school, um, and then you've you're now a financial planner, you know.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I always like those types of stories anyway, because it just reinforces the fact that you don't need further education to become a financial planner.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, it's one of those professions that well, you need the qualifications to become a financial planner, but you don't need the qualifications in the conventional sense of going to university.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a necessity to be a financial planner.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's worth hitting home on that.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: I had a young chap who works for Wrathbones who joined their um their apprenticeship and um he joined at 17 and he's 23 now, chartered fellow, and he's and he's working, you know, and he left us at 16 years old from uh from school.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I really like those types of stories, and I think it's important to make sure that those that are in school who don't perhaps feel that they want to go into further education or feel perhaps that education in general isn't for them, that you know it's not the end of the world.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: You can go out and get a job somewhere else, you know, and can do a profession that's very professional.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you left school at what age?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um 17.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: 17, okay.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you finished your GCSEs then, yeah?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I got GCSEs and then um I was politely asked, um, I think I was politely asked to leave in the in the um in sixth form due to not having my heart in it.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you started sixth form and just thought just did you which sounds like a similar story to me.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: I left school, wasn't really that bothered about education, but sort of slipped into college and started doing like an electronics degree.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, they asked me to leave because I wasn't interested in it whatsoever.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Was that the similar sort of thing for you?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: You just felt that education wasn't for you, your heart wasn't in it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, I think I think so.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: I I think I just I didn't know what I wanted to do.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't know if I wanted to go to university.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I think because you don't have a you didn't have that that set path lined up of of what's um of where I need to go or what I need to do.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't and at the age of 17, I didn't see the point of continuing um when my heart wasn't in it when I didn't know where I was gonna go after anyway.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: So um I knew I wanted I knew I liked business and I knew I liked um I knew I liked, yeah, I wanted to do something that was related to business, but otherwise I had I had no idea.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I think that age as well, around 16, is really tricky to work out what it is you want to do.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I didn't really set out in life to run a recruitment company, you know, it wasn't my what I'd set out to do.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of fell into it, and it fell into it in my late 20s.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think at 16 years old, it's really difficult, isn't it, to work out what it is you want to do.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um totally.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not into fine, if you're not into um further education, then it can almost feel a bit like um a kick to your self-esteem, really, because you're kind of out there trying to find a job and you're you're sort of scratching around, aren't you, trying to find something?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then the types of people that employ you are bars, restaurants, or factories, or you know, really kind of entry-level stuff.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it gives you a bit of a kick up the back side as well at the same time, because it kind of gives you a wow, you know, I've left school, there I don't have any uh path of where I want to go to.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have to get stuck into some work, which I don't particularly want to do for the rest of my life.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes you kind of think, oh, actually, is there something else out there?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is there another path I can take?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's a it's a useful thing to do.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: All right, great.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you you your your dad was part of the team or is part of the team of Critchley's, was that right?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, so so Critchley's is an accountancy firm um which and then Critchley's financial planning is basically an arm um of part of Critchley's accountancy firm.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um so so we sort of try to offer a joined up service, you know, we have um accountants sort of on site and things like this.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: But my my dad is um the head of the financial planning of Critchley's financial planning.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: So he set up Critchley's financial planning.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it was back in 2010.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: So um, no, sorry, earlier, yeah, 2010, I think.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'll have to double check that.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but yeah, and um and joined up as part of part of the accountancy firm, which I think was a really good decision because it does mean that we um it we're coming from that accountancy background, we we do um, especially when it comes to cash flow planning and and things like that, and providing a full um sort of client service when we have access to you know qualified tax advisors and um and also we have a corporate finance team and um yeah, we're we're we're a big firm.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: But so a big firm of experts, a big firm probably of individual experts that all kind of can can can talk to a client about something from start to finish.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's nice to have that private client relationship, I suppose, um, and also the the relationship from the accountancy side to to financial planning, and we're seeing that grow more and more, especially as tax becomes more of an issue.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um will do with the great transition of wealth also.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there's loads of tax things coming up, isn't there?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, absolutely great.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you started off in the in the in the post room, is that right?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just doing some scanning, yeah, um, yeah, and things like that.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then um yeah, moved into a sort of full administration role.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: So booking review meetings and and emailing clients and and things like that.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and so I I think I think I was in an admin role probably for about um nine months until I took my first exam.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, did you have any idea of what financial planning was at all?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, not at all.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and the the the thing about that is it's it sort of helped me and hindered me because join joining the role, um joining um the firm with no experience and no background and moving up to where I am now, I've done it in a very short amount of time.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously I've done the exams, but in the sense of maybe a training program that you put an advisor through, I think I've I've gone through in a way of there's lots of areas which I've had to sort of pick up along the way.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um so it's definitely been quite an interesting process because there's still things now which I'm learning five years on as an advisor from sort of an admin perspective or power planning perspective that I'm just sort of picking up now.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's yeah, it's it's sort of just the way that um I've moved into the role.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm a really big advocate of how important the soft skills are in the role, and um, so that's that's sort of why I've I was so keen to become an advisor because I wanted to get client-facing straight away.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to be helping people, I wanted to be like this one-on-one.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm still continuing learning, obviously, only from being, I've only got five years experience in in finance as a whole.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, it's it's it's definitely been an intense but really enjoyable process.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: How important do you think starting out, um, dare I say it, at the bottom, in the post room as an administrator, let's call it an entry-level position.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: How important do you think that has been to your overall career and achieving becoming a financial planner?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think it's been so important.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think purely just because in the knowing how processes work, um, if we're looking at behind the scenes, a lot of people don't realize, you know, the work that power planners do, the work that the admin staff do to keep your financial planning business running smoothly.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, people that are one-man bands, you know, my hat off to you because there is there is so much, especially when it comes to compliance and and everything like this.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: So when you when you do go start off in that um at the bottom and you work your way up, it it does put things into perspective, I think, about um what it what it involves.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and also, yeah, it also means that I I've been able to witness lots of other advisors and sort of learn traits from them and learn what I might do myself and what I won't do myself from being in that lower role.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I've sort of, so as I've been able to move into position I am now, I've sort of been able to form my my perfect, or well not putting as perfect, but form how I want to be as an advisor from from looking at people who are who are above me and and then moving now on to the same level as them, sort of thing.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: So someone being within an administration role perhaps now, maybe they're starting out in their first year, they're very eager to become a financial planner.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: What would your advice to them actually be then once they're in that position?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: What should they be doing?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: What sort of um what should they be displaying when in that role to be able to help them progress forward quicker?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'd probably say, like I just mentioned, when when you are working around people who have that experience, trying to take from them as much as you can.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um and and yeah, and if you do get the opportunity to shadow, shadowing advisors was probably um one of the key things which helped me get things get to becoming an advisor really, really quickly.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um purely just because I asked if I could sit in on meetings and at the back of the room and just be taking notes, but not just with my dad, but with other advisors as well, so I could see different styles.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and I think with the with the exams as well, is know that the exams do help you in in the sense that even though the the technical, the technical knowledge is important, especially if you're an administrator, because those exams literally make everything you're doing become so much clearer.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: So when you are writing up to providers for pensions and things like that, and you've got this list of information that you're getting, but you don't really get why.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: If you then do the pension exam, it all just starts to fit together, and it's a really nice feeling when you can feel the puzzle fitting together and understanding, oh, so that's why I'm asking for that.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's what I again, yeah, I think I like from starting at the bottom is just being able to see this picture and see how all the puzzle pieces fit together and how all the processes work.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: So there's an argument, isn't there, for why people should perhaps start at administrator level and work their way up through the roles as opposed to feeling that they should just go straight into a financial planning position.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is that they actually are, as you say, understanding the process from start to finish.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And when it when you start to take your exams alongside the work that you're doing, it all becomes a lot clearer without that pressure of then having to deliver that financial planning.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: So when you eventually end up becoming level four qualified and perhaps stepping into a financial planner position, you're more prepared to understand the bigger picture.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to learn all of that side whilst doing the job of financial planner.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think so, definitely.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that means that you can learn your your technical skills in in those for in that first period.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you do become an advisor, obviously that's when all the all the then you all the soft skills start as well, but and you already have that technical knowledge.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely I I would all especially in the sense of a power planner, um, I think that having some time doing all that technical work as well, um is is really important as well, because especially in the sense now I have clients who who come to me and ask me for something, and because I spent two years as a power planner, I feel like I I'm able to do all of that background work sort of myself there and then.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, it's you don't have to rely so much or or it's just it just means that you can work together a lot more, I think.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: More with your with your team, yeah.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you understand the pressure, you understand the pressures that they're under the job that they have to do.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess as well, you're able to articulate that to them in a way that you would like it to happen from a place of understanding and knowing because you've done the job that they have done.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's nothing worse than someone sort of barking orders at you and has no understanding or concept of um perhaps their expectations are out of whack to what it actually does, what they actually have to do for the to get the information back, for example.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can hear that a lot with administrators.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them feel quite undervalued, especially when they have aspirations to become financial planners and they're in firms where they're almost being kept in the role because they're good at it.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, or there's a short skill shortage, you know, within specific areas of the UK, like someone will be sat in an admin role for so long and kind of kept there, really.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Same with power planners, you know, they're kept in those positions.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you yourself then started out as an administrator, okay, you then moved into moved into power planning, okay.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, I think I I was quite um um I was quite assertive with moving into a power planning role because I think I felt that as I as I was doing my exams, um I was doing them quite quickly.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I was getting this technical knowledge, and therefore I was sort of being expected there wasn't a clear um sort of defined administrative power planner.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: It was that the workload I was starting to be given was of what a power planner would do.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I basically sort of um yeah, I brought it, I brought up and I said that oh, I I feel, you know, that I I want to, I want to have more responsibility.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I want to start suitability report writing and doing more of the research and things like that.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um again, as as it was when I moved into a divisor, shadowing another power planner who was, you know, showing me.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if anything, I was I was doing it in a way which was like, can I assist, can I assist and help you with with what you're doing and asking and just watching and picking up what they were doing, and then in turn being given more and more responsibility, I think.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And um yeah, so but I I think yeah, there was definitely a a definitive point where you know my signature changed from like administrator to power planner and and whatnot.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: And um, but but yeah, I think I I think I just had to ask for it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously it did mean that we had to get somebody else in to for the administratory side.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: There was a period where I was juggling between the two.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like it like as an advisor as well.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: There was a point where I was juggling because I had that power planning background for for the firm, I felt like I was dual rolling still because I was still being handed work while I was trying to establish myself as an advisor.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that was quite difficult.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I think I do think that you you do have that if you do start in in the admin in from the start in the admin position.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think as well, the hybrid, being a hybrid in a hybrid position, if you like, tends to be down to the individual also being quite ambitious.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds to me where you started off, you wanted you, you you were observing what the financial planners around you were doing.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: You could see that that actually was what you wanted to do.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you were raising yourself up in respect of role responsibility, perhaps putting yourself forward, um, saying, I would like to do that.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Can I learn this?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Can I learn that?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think naturally any manager would have to say, okay, you can take on extra responsibility, but you have to keep on doing what you're doing for the time being.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's also what people have to understand.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like today I'm an administrator and then tomorrow I'm a power planner.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it doesn't quite work like that.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: You have to kind of step into the role and grow into it based on your experience.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's the understanding that I'm getting, especially in some of the firms that are a bit smaller where it's not compartmentalized so much.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: You are responsible for your own career growth.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Would you say that you had to push yourself further forward to get noticed within the business to say, look, you know, I can't, you know, putting your hand up for things that perhaps you wouldn't normally do, suggesting that you could do the work, asking for more work, asking for more responsibility.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is that was that part of your natural strategy to get ahead?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think so.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think um with obviously um my dad, he was um, I do have I did have that benefit of I could possibly be more pushy towards him about what I wanted to do.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: And hence why I think when I first started um wanting to do the exams, um I made it very clear from that point, I think that I wanted to be in an advisory role.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that pop, but potentially he wasn't expecting me to power through to that point as quickly as um as as he as he thought I would that I did, because actually it wasn't until in um there wasn't actually an advisory role there for me.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: It just so happened that I was very lucky um that an advisor was leaving.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: So even though I was still in a training position, I was still in a shadowy role, I just put, I just said, I want that position.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and and yeah, and and I and obviously um there, I think I think it's it's a sort of a double edged sword as well, because my dad, I think he also sort of feels because I'm his daughter, um probably there's they probably a lot of thought have had to go into it is is she ready?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Am I it does it look like I'm giving her sort of more of an opportunity?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, I think that I'd proven my.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: myself over the last few years of how hard I'd worked and and how ready I was.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And um and yeah, I think there was from that point there there was um no looking back.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I think as well you've got to you've got to remove the fact that your father is part, you know, runs the runs the business because I don't you know regardless of that it's it's just a tall order to become a financial planner.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there is lots of training, there's lots of development and there's lots of studying that needs to be done.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you know obviously having your dad in the business has probably helped in some respect but you still have to be willing and able to do the job and putting and doing the work.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think that should be completely overlooked as well should it really?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's yeah you're the say you can lead not I'm not calling you a horse here but you can lead a whole you can lead a horse to water.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: But you can't make it drink it drink.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So all the great good in the world you know wouldn't have pushed you to do it unless you really want to so exactly one thing I'd like to get my head around at the moment is how old are you at the moment?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 26.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: 26 years old okay so 21 years old you were said you started working within that's right in the practice okay so early 20s right why why financial planning why do you see that as a profession or as a career to excel in and to move forward in um at the age of 21 I think in general really so you you you since 21 you were 21 years old you went in there because your dad obviously helped you out of a job right you didn't have any preconceptions of what financial planning was apart from what your dad was doing yeah so you go in there to the work arena you start working in there over five year period you've developed your skills your training your qualifications you're now a full financial planner given full financial planning crisis you're winning award okay you're winning awards so from not knowing what you want to do in your life to all of a sudden knowing what you want to do in your life which is an outstanding financial planner by the side of things at 26 years old to me is fantastic.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have that my mindset wasn't like that at the age of 26.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd just like to understand why what what was it what was the spark that made you think you know what this is actually a career for me.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: What is it you like about it?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think it it probably goes I think initially um when I first started it it had such a clear path of it had such a sort of clear route of of the the progression and and how I can get there.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: So so initially I didn't have that spark it was just the fact that I could see that I could do I could you know get to a get to a higher level um and obviously probably had that excitement of I hadn't I hadn't got any A levels at school and and I saw this oh I could actually make you know a decent career and it wasn't until I think like I said I started dealing with clients and really understood that then the role is not about numbers it's about people and it's just it just fits me as a person sort of to a T.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: I love helping people I see it in the same way as um like doctors and accountants we have essentially learned something that or we've learned this knowledge and um that we are able to explain and share to people which which they wouldn't usually know or they wouldn't usually understand and actually bring people and the you know there's such negative effects that that money worries can have on people when you're able to help someone in in that sort of in in that way I just I just literally just fell in love with it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: The people I've met along the way as well um you know my clients range and sort of really different people with all sort of their you know everyone's sort of unique from different backgrounds and and I just yeah it's just it's just a really a really really people people job and I get a lot of satisfaction out of it.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay so it's the people element the people side of it the helping yeah they're helping okay so you've got that side of you where you want to add value to somebody's life and be a part of their journey and help them have a clearer picture of their life make them happier add service.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned something there as well which I think is really really important and important really to anybody that's thinking about becoming a financial planner and starting out with a firm say at an administrator level is to ask and to challenge and to say look you know is there a career path for me what does it look like and it's easy enough to say like admin to power planner to financial planner but I think if you join a firm and they haven't outlined a career plan for you, it can leave you in a position perhaps for far longer than you should be in it regardless of your ambition.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah the company hasn't got a plan, a personal development plan for you, then you might be stuck in a role longer than expected.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know it's not unusual for someone to be sat in a role for three years when they could within that three years technically training themselves up to be a financial planner.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's really important.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as well it does I like that as well that ability to know where you're going it's a roadmap isn't it and it makes you feel calm at knowing there are steps to where you need to get to and they are achievable.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's again a plan that someone needs when they start in a job.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay good excellent so let's talk about soft skills you mentioned the word soft skills a few times so I understand what soft skills is but what do you mean by that and what sort of soft skills do you think are needed to be a good financial planner?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah well soft skills basically in the sense is is and I think it goes back sort of especially to being a woman um some of the qualities that um I can bring to the role but it's basically um how you can we can learn all this knowledge and we can learn all the technical terms and all the jargon but how can we basically commune like communicate that to clients um we essentially have to talk to clients about some really personal aspects of their life.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to be able to have the skills that you can make someone feel comfortable to be able to tell you and talk to you about that.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: And there's one thing you know being able to to look at all their finances and tell them tell them what to do but you need to basically they need to be able to trust you and trust in what you're saying.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't have sort of the the the the people skills to be able to do that then you're probably not going to have the clients feel that they can put all their trust in you so I think I like to um you know it's the the sort of the key skills I'd say is being um empathetic, being able to listen I think a lot of the time you can you can meet you can meet clients and especially when you're younger is you can sit and you can be so worried about trying to prove yourself that you know what you're talking about that you don't actually stop and you know just listen.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know the client might not want to know all that jargon might not want to know about the you know the the Chinese debt bubble and oil crash and everything like this they just want to know about how you can help them get from A to B.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd say yeah being listening is a really important one.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah I think just just being understanding and and relatable and just showing that you know talking about money shouldn't be scary it shouldn't be complicated complicating and confusing and if it is then that's what we're here to do to try and resolve so that's probably what I think.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: No that's great and that's some good soft skills um I think listening skills are essential in any line of work where you're working with anybody where you're in trying to improve their situation because ultimately you want to find out what their pain points are you want to find out what their worries are.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to get them to offload onto you so you can create a solution for the issues that they might have.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think good listening skills is essential not just listening and switching off but listening actively so actively listening to what they've got to say.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Stop jumping in and trying to create yeah I can do this for you I can do this for you I can do this for you before you even wonder what they're they might not even have a problem you know so I think listening is essential asking those relevant open questions that open the individual up and where you get to be a bit more personal with them you know not overstepping the mark and being too personal with them but just trying to gain a professional understanding of their personal life and it's merging those two things together is a bit and I get it like into a lot um the role of a financial planner is almost as a bit of a money counsellor a finance counselor and I like that you know because it is very well being focused.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: You should be able to open these people up they should be able to trust you and tell you what perhaps their anxieties and fears are because money isn't something we naturally like to open up and talk about because it feels especially me for example as a business owner we were supposed to know what we're doing we're supposed to know about money but do you know what I was petrified until I spoke to a financial planner myself and when I sat down and talked to him and he really opened up to me and I opened up to him and he was like Sam you know what you're actually in an all right position.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: All those things you're thinking about are in comparison to some people I speak to not that big a deal mate and that what you're doing is is is great.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I didn't have a house and I didn't own a house and I was really like so worried what people thought of me because I didn't have a house yet I was a business owner and then people around in my own business were buying houses but I couldn't because I couldn't afford one because I'm a business owner and it's done on the profitability of my business.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it made me feel really low.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then I spoke to this financial planner and he was like yeah but look all that money you're putting away you know and then tried to explain to me like the difference between like debt within a property and um having money in your bank account in a savings account and like the difference and I was like oh right and then he compare like someone who was dealing with who's got like a two million pound house with a 1.7 million mortgage you know and everything's borrowed and he said these people aren't any happier than them just because they've got all these things Sam and it really helped me I think opening that up to as many people as possible not just high net worth clients where they have intricate tax problems and you know issues where they're trying to save money from inheritance and all of that but opening it up to everybody I think is only going to help a lot of people out there sort of develop a better relationship with money.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I hear from financial planning and that's the enjoyable part of it by the sounds of it building those deeper relationships.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: And of course once you do it once they come back don't they or they refer their friends or they refer other people from their businesses or relationships networks to come and see that's how you build build up lovely well I know that one thing about you is that you are interested in this financial education where at the moment at Critchley's correct me if I'm wrong but you're working with probably quite high net worth clients that you know have specific needs that you can deliver financial planning to and you've got intricate people probably within the business with different skill sets that can talk about that.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: But as we just alluded to there not everybody is open and available if you like to good financial planning or at least some form of financial education.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: So what are you doing about that?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah well um like like how you were saying as well and maybe going back to um what we mentioned when we previously started talking is is because I did have um my son sort of so young and um obviously was sort of thrown into the big independent world quite young even though my dad was a financial planner I didn't have much um financial knowledge whatsoever.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I did get myself into some you know some hairy money spots that um it's taken me a few years you know to recover from and um but that's and you know people people say oh that that's part of growing up but it's I don't think that should be part of growing up.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think that I think getting sort of money worries and and knowing and sort of having a clear understanding of how basic things work is just it should just be fundamental knowledge and I just don't understand why it's not and I think that so because of this it's meaning that less and less people are turning to get financial advice when they they basically the the less people the less people know the less likely I think they are to actually reach out.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think when it comes to money there's this element of that it's embarrassing and that you should know what you you should know what to do you know no one likes talking about it it's all secretive no no one wants to to share their money where is but it's the most sort of important things you know to live and it's not taught to us.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: The only way that if you if you're lucky and you have parents who who are able to you know set you up help you out or or maybe teach you um it wasn't taught at school when I was at school um sort of finance basic financial education wasn't taught I know that they are bringing things into the curriculum now um but still really limited.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think that they have they they have to teach um like in like an hour in a in a sort of 10 hour block like they just a minimum of an hour.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway but that basically got me thinking and I was like you know it it should start at school so I did start out and start trying to do some school visits and things like this because I I basically figured you know I'm I'm I'm young I'm relatable I think people would listen to me because of my age and um you know I don't look like your typical financial planner.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not like a man in a suit going to school but I sadly didn't have that much of a good response from schools when I was trying to go in.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, obviously I know that there's all these um child protection issues and things like that and and but but just generally they they weren't interested.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: I said you know I'd come for I I've contacted my local school that I went to and I said I'd come and and do and so so I did a couple of career fairs but I I decided I was like I need to think of a bigger picture of how I can reach out to to younger people and actually them actually engage with me.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so um from that I started up an Instagram called Cheese Got Wealth which I started um last year where basically I wanted to put out um um basically posts with information covering like the basic topics from sort of credit cards guide to investing compound interest and and things like that and um got a really good response from that when that first got set up um we also set I've also filmed well what I've been working on the last few months is is a millennial money series which is basically a five part um free video set um series which we rolled out initially to our clients children and grandchildren and then we've now released it to the to the public and um yeah I just basically want to continue to sort of using especially now we've got lockdown as well we've got all these platforms that the young people are continually using.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think people's you know online screen times are like seven hours a day and people are wanting to especially this new generation that are coming through Gen Z, they are known to being a generation that do actually really want to to learn and sort of be better than their um the generations from before them.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it hence why we've got loads of them interesting all this big investing hype at the moment and Bitcoin and things like this.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: So if we can if we can find ways of platforms that we can actually get these young people to access this information then I think we have way more sort of chance of educating them that way than via um schools and things like that.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: So that's basically my the long position of of what I've been wanting to do and how I've been wanting to reach out.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: So there's this element of you that wants to give back yeah so because one thing's for sure when you work as a financial planner you do really have to focus on a certain type of client that is going to be paying a fee an ongoing fee arrangement.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: So those are your kind of typical clients that you would build like say a business model around that you know that you can generate some fee income from from an investment pension overall financial planning ongoing fee arrangement.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: So there's that side of it.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you focused 110% purely on the um trying you know trying to sort of reduce this advice gap if you like with she got wealth you know you probably won't make any money out of that for some time unless you almost become a coach and you then drive loads of engagement and then you have a YouTube channel and then you start getting paid for advertising on YouTube channels.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: And there are lots of people that are doing starting to move into that financial education piece.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: I had Peter Komalafe um on my podcast his conversation of money and he's really I've known him from the very beginning doing it and he's really broken it down to me and showed me how you can make loads of money out of being more of a coach within within financial services and the need for more of these financial coaches.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: And what you're doing and building that personal brand and giving that financial education, you are giving away information essentially for free in the hope that you are then going to generate a relationship with the audience.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: And as those individuals learn to trust and build a relationship with you and perhaps they come to the point where they need mortgages or they need financial advice or a pension or whatever, they're gonna go full circle, aren't they?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they're gonna come around and they're gonna see you.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you're essentially building that relationship with an audience and you're growing older with them throughout their financial journey and to the point where they need financial planning and then there is something that's going to come back to you.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the bit about financial that's a bit about um Instagram and and social media and um and why perhaps there isn't much of it out there because hey there isn't a great deal of um of financial planners around your age but the ones that are doing it and starting off on this journey right now it's only going to add value in the long term will turn them into clients apparently it could be five years down the line but if you've got like a thousand followers within a year right then what's that going to look like in five years?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be huge.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: And not only that as well but it raises your profile and it raises your personal brand.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: So giving back like I do with this podcast for example me giving back to other people that want to become financial planners raises my brand within the financial planning profession which then opens doors for me in the financial planning profession.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's exactly the same for you but with other clients or perhaps other financial institutions or schools or universities.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: When people see it they'll go yeah okay let's get her in yeah no she's somebody we can have we can have come in and talk about financial education to this or whatever.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I see it as a really valuable part of being a financial planner and a lot of planners don't see the value in it because they don't get an instant return on it.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah no definitely and I think obviously like like you mentioned it is it is time consuming um and thought goes into it but um I think it depends on on how how sort of what you feel like you you gain from from being a financial planner as well.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: One of my biggest satisfactions is when a client comes to me and I've explained something to them and they've said to me you've explained that so well like I get that and that is that's that just just the sort of feeling that you get especially you know when you haven't done very well at school and you have that that feeling of someone saying that to you it just is so it's so so so good.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why it's gone back to me sort of trying to strip back all the complicated um boring long hard terms all sort of surrounding finance and and make it really you know make it a bit more sort of I can't yeah just a bit simpler yeah and engaging.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah exactly engagement people don't need to be people don't need to be baffled by jargon.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: No whenever we whenever someone's trying to baffle you with jargon or baffle you with language that is a that is essentially above your level tends to mean they're probably trying to manipulate in manipulate you into thinking you know nothing and they do which means you need them but actually I think just go like what are you on about yeah around the corner it doesn't explain it like that and I'll go and speak that's the beauty of social media is that you can just go you're boring I'm going to that one and you have to be engaging you have to simplify it's like simple in psycholinguistics isn't it you receive a letter that talks about your pension and you're like oh my god this is so if someone sort of just I don't know here's a letter it's really simple and by the way here's a video explaining it as well or if you want to pick the phone up or follow me on Instagram I'm doing a a live on it tomorrow and bam you've got like 20 odd people and those 20 odd people 30 people 40 people grow and as we say they could become potential clients they either are clients or they're going to tell people yeah but also what I love about what you're doing is you're putting content out there when content goes out there it stays out there so it compounds as well so it's a bit like when I do a podcast if I put it out there and I get 100 views of it 100 listens in the first day by the you know by three months later I've got 500 600 and it's continually getting listened to all the time.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: For sure have you done much on YouTube no I've I've wanted to I've I did some I did some vlogs so I've got about four or five um vlogs out there which is actually what started me sort of into um into getting into that educational zone um and putting putting out videos and things like this but they're more talking about um it was more me highlighting the need for financial education so it's more more me so so so no that that would be something that um I'd I'd really want to yeah and um the other thing that I've thought about as well which um I think for advisors is is a bit daunting because of the age thing is TikTok.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um purely just because I mean like how like how we how we were just talking the um the age demographic on TikTok is obviously a lot younger but it does go back to sort of building that building that brand and sort of getting yourself out there and the reach you can get on TikTok videos is is humongous.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I have seen On there because, like I said, I'm toying with this idea.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: I have seen there's mortgage advisors and things like this, and estate agents and people explaining, you know, how saying, oh, there's these short videos about mortgages and things like this, or estate agents have done these cool videos around the house and stuff.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: And they they're getting some really good breach.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: So if there'd be a way that I could start putting out some some TikTok videos, you know, with little educational snippets just explaining what things are.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one of my huge pet hates is Klana and um, you know, these um these online fashion um payment things where people can pay later.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that one of my big sort of campaigns, especially when I meet younger girls through family or friends and things like this, that's say, like you hope you're staying away from Klana and these.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that that needs to be quite put out.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: And if that could be put out on TikTok to basically show the dangers of Klana, that would be that'd be something I'd maybe start with.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think as well, and you're talking about women as well, because obviously she got wealth is I assume it's kind of your personal brand, she as in you, or she as in your audience?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um it was it was more aimed at she as in the audience, because um I feel like um with when it comes to women, yeah, um, women are less likely to seek financial advice.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think there was a statistic I saw which is that 47% of women have money worries, but only 12% um would seek advice and things like that.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's because women just generally find it so much more daunting.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, and um I think there's still this stigma of that if you go and see financial advice, you're gonna go into a stuffy room with a man in a suit who's just gonna completely overwhelm you.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so I just want to strip all that back and basically just get girls, young, young girls, older girls talking about money and um and understanding money.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we are the the women are now coming through and we're gonna be earning, we're earning more, we're doing more.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: We've got so many more female CEOs coming through.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: We've got some great stories in the media recently about um, you know, women, um, that Whitney Wolfheard, the um CEO of Bumble, becoming um a billionaire and listing her listing Bumble with a baby on her hip.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, and I think that more needs to basically so that's that's what she's got wealth was was aimed at.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to basically eventually build a um a brand of of sort of a bit glamorous, you know, sort of girly women talking about money and making money sort of yeah, easier to talk about for for women.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: Easier to talk about, more interesting and more relatable to women.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think when you put go back to what you said before about like um, oh, people get in debt when they're younger, that's just what they do.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know it's so it's gotten so much easier to get into debt?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it isn't what people have always done.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned there about Klana, is it Klaner, isn't it?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we've got to also, I think, and this is something for you to consider if you're not doing it already, but to understand the psychology around money and why people get into debt.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, why do we get into debt?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: What is it within ourselves that drives us to borrow that money to make us feel accepted by socially by our friends, etc.?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: And like, and it's about raising that awareness, and especially on platforms such as Instagram, which is predominantly female, and predominantly generating feelings of negativity because I don't have what that person has, and that can often drive insecurity, which then drives the need to purchase to make ourselves feel better.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think understanding the psychological psychology about being a woman or a man, whatever, and being happy with what you have, and that the need for wanting more comes from a need to being accepted or to try and fill a hole of unhappiness.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Once you start to make the connection, I think, with sort of how the human mind thinks and money, then you're in the ballpark where people go, Oh shit, yeah, she's got a point there.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a really good angle.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Catherine Morgan.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you know Katherine Morgan?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the money money channel.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: She's really, yeah, really, really up to you know on it with the psychology side of it.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: And if you haven't yeah, I've I've seen some of her stuff before.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, follow a podcast.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I think connecting the psychology with money is perfect.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of just telling people, it's about educating them around why they do the things they do.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when they can make that connection, then there comes that kind of, oh wow, I'm really learning something here.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to sort of put content out things that just then gets lost into the ether of everybody else doing the same thing.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love seeing is financial planners putting content out on social media and almost coaching and giving advice because they're financial planners.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: What I can't stand is some white boy sitting on a beach drinking a pina colada, talking about how he's just smashed it on the forex.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, it's like that's so negative and it's just so dangerous because people think that's a quick win again, isn't it?
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Easy money.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, whereas you know, you are a financial planner and you can talk about risk versus rewards, you can talk about the long game pension planning, you know, not just thinking that instantly you need to make 200 quid that day on stock market, which yeah, I've got friends around me, you know, and they bang on about how much money they've made on this on their stocks and shares ISO.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, like, well, that's gambling, essentially, isn't it?
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Spreading it and you're not thinking long term, then essentially you're just gambling for the short term to make yourself look good and feel good.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not actually a great relationship again with money.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, more women in financial planning is obviously required.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's going to be more female millionaires than ever before.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: You've obviously hit the point a second ago around, you know, women don't feel comfortable going in and talking to men, perhaps, or the traditional kind of view of financial planning is stuffy 55-year-old middle-aged guy, you know, do they really understand what women are going through, etc.?
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we look at pensions, the pension pots for women are very different to the pensions for men, you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so more women in financial planning is required, that's for sure, because there's going to be more women needing financial planning.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about that.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: As a profession for a female, financial planning, what's you know, why do you think it's a great profession for more women?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, I think probably obviously we've we've already spoken about um the sense that it's a people person, uh a people job.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, and it's it's it's helping people.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I think one of the one of the most important things um for me especially um is sort of how flexible and how um and how how easy it is to juggle um around sort of family life.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um because essentially you can take on as many clients um as you feel that you're able to.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you can you don't have it's not necessarily a typical nine to five job.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um I like my clients to know that I have a young son, you know, that I that I have a commitment, and but then also um I have some clients who if I needed to, I could drop them an email on a Saturday.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: I like to have that relationship with them that you know I'm around, but I like to let them into my life as much as they let me into their lives.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my son is obviously eight now, and we've been juggling the whole homeschooling.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's also he was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes uh six months ago.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we've been in and out sort of with in hospital and stuff like that, um, which is it's been been really difficult.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: But because of the the nature of the role that I have, um, you know, I haven't had to put things on hold.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, it's just so so so flexible working.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if if you need to sort of reduce your workload, um you you can do or increase your workload, sort of the opportunities from for where you can take it uh are endless.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um obviously I'm an employed advisor at the moment, but there's you you can if you want to go out on on your own.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of women, I think, do have success have successfully um done that around working with with children.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I I think, and especially with um exams and that as well, there'sn't there's no time limit to um to how long it has to take you to become an advisor or or to become chartered.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know there's a big hype at the moment about everyone has to be chartered, which I think is important.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that you know, once you've got your level four, you should look forward to going and becoming chartered.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: But then but there is a lot of pressure on on those exams at the moment.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_02: And my advice to any woman would be, you know, it's it's it's um a marathon, not a sprint, and build building up all the experience you build along the way is more important.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, my it's but it's basically just the fact of how how flexible it is around family life, I think, is key.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then also just just the way a lot of women would only want to deal with a female advisor.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: So um I've found that with this new influx of wealth that women getting, sadly, um, the elephant in the room, divorce rates are become going up, they're becoming more common.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there are lots of women who are not getting married or having children anymore.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so there are more and more women seeking financial advice, and they will they a lot of them only would want to speak to a female advisor.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, and but with that, I do really like that because I love having sort of a female client female advisor relationship.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I get on very well with my female clients and we build up some really good, entertaining sort of relationships.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, so yeah, I think that that it's not a typical nine to five, it's a fabulous people, please um um people job.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and yeah, I think that it it fits in well with with family life.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so in the traditional sense of the word, you know, like a woman um traditionally wouldn't perhaps be um managing the family finances or anything like that.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was tend to have been left to a man.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think it's just shifting, isn't it?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's changing the landscape shifting and changing.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the more women are looking after money, the more women are wanting to be financially independent, thinking about their futures.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: You absolutely hit the nail on the head about divorce rates, isn't it?
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: They're increasing.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what historically might have been like the man putting away money into a pension because that's what he did, because he was working, etc.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: More women are obviously professionals, they're out earning men, they're starting to out earn.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, and as I said before, you're gonna have more, more, more millionaires are gonna be female, I think.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh not not too far, not too far away.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: I read some statistics.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: So there is a definite need for women to get financial planning, and I guess as well, if I was to get into divorced and I was a I was a I was a woman, would I want to sit in a room with a bloke?
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, would I want to sit there and take financial planning from a guy who doesn't understand what it's like to be a woman, you know?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um does that make sense?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: Or am I being safe?
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, no, no, no.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't think I don't think so at all.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um no, it's like it's no, it's it's completely and um and how how I mentioned before how what what we spoke about before, in that when it all comes to talking about money, you have to talk about very personal issues, and when it does come to the subject of divorce, um with that you can have some, you know, you have to talk about a really intimate aspect of someone's life who's probably going through a really, really um big, big change.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: So so the sort of sense, the sensitivity and the way you need to handle it, um, you do have to be sort of quite, yeah, quite careful, I think.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so I think that's probably why a woman would prefer to speak to a woman in that aspect.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's not in the sense of being sexist, it's just the sense of how they want to relate and how they feel how they would feel comfortable, I think, talking about talking about what had happened in that.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: How many females do you work with then that are financial planners?
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: None.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we can so you're the only female financial planner.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wait, wait, wait, wait, yeah, so so so no, so I I have I've obviously I'm part of a um financial females and financial planning sort of group on Facebook and LinkedIn and things like that.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: And at conferences, we probably make up about seven percent of the demographic.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we're quite it's quite a few.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't work, I don't have any um, I don't work with any, um, there's none in my team.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, there's in my team.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: So do you tap, do you tap into that network of female financial planners to kind of share your opinions, voice, you know, get ideas?
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do you best practice?
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that to you is a benefit then to have that space, that tribe, if you like, of other women that you can you can tap into, even to the point where you go to any conferences, etc., you will go there en masse, and you've got 70% of you there, and it's yeah, exactly.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: And we all end up recognizing each other, I think, because we're such a minority.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I can actually remember the I'll be able to remember sort of Julie's name, but I'll struggle to remember all the Dave's.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose as well, working for a firm where there aren't any other women financial planners to banks off of, do you sometimes and you can be honest here, and you I don't think anybody listening to this from your firm would have a problem with you saying it, but do you sometimes feel like it's a challenge to get a woman's opinion across or not?
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, not so much in the sense that I do feel like I perhaps sometimes masculinise, is it masculinise or masculine, masculinise myself myself, um, which I shouldn't have to do.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I I feel I have had to um, you know, I do have to sort of put on a bit of a bit of a a front, or I've had to become across sort of louder and more confident to sort of establish my way and into into the role that I've I've had, which I think it shouldn't be the case.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: And especially in the last couple of years, I've definitely softened down a little bit more and maybe come back to sort of how I am normally as a person.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: But definitely at the start, I think you do feel like you you have to compete and and make yourself sort of be make yourself be seen or be known.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I hope that changes a lot because I think as now I'm getting more and more experience, that sort of womanly, softer nature that I have actually brings me a lot a lot more favours, I think.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: And and um brings, yeah, is is you shouldn't have to be somebody you're not, yeah.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, being a female isn't a negative to the role of a financial planner, be yourself, and that's what it's all about.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: And by being authentic and being yourself.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love it, and I think that's a good bit of advice to any young females heading out into financial planning is to try not to emasculate yourself, just to try to be kind of yourself and allow yourself to come out because that's the way you need to be, true and authentic.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you're pretending to be somebody else, and it's only going to stress you out, isn't it?
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: And make you feel like you don't fit in.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: All right, cool.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so right.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's the future hold for you then?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: What what's what's what are you looking to do over the next couple of years?
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, lockdown's been a bit of a spanner in the works, isn't it?
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, through lockdown, I think I've just been um, it's just been basically continuing, continuing to build um from a work since my current relationships.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still doing my studies and things like that, but my dream is obviously to get she's got wealth and sort of picture, get it into the picture that I want it to be.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I've got ideas for sort of events.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I actually had a um I I do a lot of work with um some local Oxford bloggers um who have their own Instagrams and things like that.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: And we had actually got in touch with Soho Farmhouse and we were gonna do sort of for the yummy mummies, we wanted to do like a wine and events night where we talked about we're gonna get one of the girls in who's a solicitor, and she was gonna talk to them about the importance of a will, then the other, then do the Oxford blogger she was hosting, and then I was gonna talk about pensions and things like that, but it all got put on hold.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: So doing things like that is gonna be and basically continuing to to build up and maybe out starting things on um starting events when when we can.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I think that's my um that's my goal.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely to move into the coaching side, like like you said, and and and talking about things on more in more of a coaching side rather than um yeah, rather than information led, isn't it?
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: So teaching, yeah.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you give that and you and I think it's a common misconception, especially within financial planning, not misconception, but a reluctance to do it because almost it borders advice, and there has to be that loosening of what is considered to be information and what's advice, and you can't hold somebody to it if they're just giving information.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: So there's always been that risk associated with it around marketing in general, which is why there isn't a great deal of marketing out there in financial planning.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: But people are starting to do it now, they're starting to go out there and actually talk about what it is they do, talk about specific subject matters within financial planning.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you can simplify, you know, if you can do a video that says, you know, are you saving for your future?
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, have you set up a SIP?
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what a SIP is?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, nest.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: Have you got a nest pension?
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know where your nest pension is invested?
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: Invested.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just simple stuff.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: They think, you know, imagine if you put this much money into your into your work pension.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're put how much do you know how much they're putting in?
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what that would look like in 20 years' time?
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: Stuff like that.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: And people would be like, no, I don't know that.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: And actually now I know it.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_00: So what are you telling me if I put an extra bit of money in there that can go up?
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, people just be like, Do you know what?
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's not that bad an idea.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps I need to invest in this and speak speak to someone and bang, they come over to you and it's it's easily done.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think information and educational videos, really look into YouTube, okay?
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's bugging a lot of people within the financial planning space doing it.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: So if you establish yourself a really good YouTube channel and just kind of get somebody who's a YouTube expert to start doing keyword research for you on the on.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if you say to them, look, here's some money, can you do some keyword research around these things I'm going to talk about?
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you give them a list of things to talk about, they do the keyword research to say, right, the titles of these videos need to be this, and you'll go, right, I've got the titles.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now I just need to record the videos, and put yourself in a room for like two days, get yourself a nice little setup, just record the video, send it off to be edited, and bang, you've got loads of content out there that you can release on your YouTube channel for very cheap.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just time and energy to put it together, but you've got to start some start somewhere on that, exactly.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: And build and build it up.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, that's that's some all right.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you're going in the right in the right space.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think also as well, it's great talking to younger advisors because you're also thinking about the influencer space and how you can how you can um piggyback off the back of their marketing also as well by adding value to their audience.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's an area if you've already got a thousand people on on on your Instagram, for example, start thinking about well, who's got a huge audience of the types of people that I want to talk to?
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what value can I add to her audience?
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if she's got 50,000 people and they're not dealing with anybody from a finance space, and you're doing a little bit of a one-to-one.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I love those Instagram um QA sessions you see, like the Instagram lives.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: Are you doing some Instagram lives with some amazing business owners that are all females talking about their experience with financial planning, what they do with financial planning?
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think it will people will watch it, people will listen, and then boom, your followers will go up and your brand will just just absolutely escalate.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I love what you're doing, I love what it all sounds like, and you know, and I really like as well as your background.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you left school, you didn't have an idea of where you wanted to go, you've fallen into financial planning, you very quickly established that it's a route to go down that's got a structure, process, qualifications.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can do it within your own pace.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're a young mum as well, so you've made it very obvious you can be a young mum, you can, you know, you can run a you can have a career at the same time.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um financial planning gives you that flexibility, but also it ticks the boxes for you in helping people.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, from an altruistic type side of you, it's giving you the opportunity and the freedom to try loads of new things because it is an exciting time to be a financial planner.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: I believe we're in a startup stage, you know.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: If people like you are at the forefront of starting out on social media, for example, it wasn't there before.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a quite full steam because in five, 10 years' time, you're going to be nailing it.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: You just got to keep on going with it.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my thought process.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, great.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, well, so thanks so much today for sharing your uh career journey and some of your thoughts around financial planning.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really thank you so much for having me.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's all right, no worries.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, let's keep in contact and good luck with everything.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers, Sam.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: No worries.