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Has Carmen Mlodzinski reached the end of the line as a starter? · Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: What's up, everybody.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode of Bucko Territory, presented to
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: you by the pal Territory Network.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I'm no Ohile. Joining me as always are.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: My co hosts, Josh Harrison and Platinum Key aka Mark.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: We're coming to you Wednesday, August nineteenth. Happy birthday to
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: my little sister Cassidy. She's definitely not watching this but
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: still wanted to shout her out. We're not gonna talk
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: about her a ton. We're actually gonna talk about the
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Pirates because that's what this show's about. We're going to
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: open the show talking about Carmen Majenski his struggles as
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: a starting pitcher in just his season. As a whole,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about the Pirates pitching development as a whole.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Are they still able to say that this.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Is a pitching factory, that this organization develops arms well?
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: And we will conclude today's episode with talking to Endie Rodriguez,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: a catcher who when healthy, is very productive. But we're
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: starting to learn or continuing to learn, and I should
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: say that that health isn't necessarily consistent. So guys, like
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: I said, we're starting the show with Karmen Magensky. We're
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: recording this Tuesday afternoon. Monday night was another bad start
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: for Carmen Maginski. There's I mean, what more can you
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: really say about the guy? I have his career numbers
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: pulled up his splits. He's logged over two hundred and
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: eighty eight innings as a major league pitcher. One hundred
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: and eight of those have come as a starter, where
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: he has a five thirteen earned round average and opposing
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: hitters have a one thirty ops plus against him. When
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: he's pitching out of the bullpen one hundred and seventy
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: nine and two thirds innings. His career career ERA two
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: fifty five and opposing ops plus is eighty, so he
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: is fifty percent more effective. His ERA is half of
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: what it is as a starter. And obviously the reason
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: this is the story is because for the last however
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: many years now, Karmen Magency he has lobbied time and
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: time again to get a job in the starting rotation.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I'm actually going to plug a column that as of
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: the time of this recording just posted, it will be online.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it'll have made its rounds by the time
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: this episode's published tomorrow morning, where I kind of talk
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: about Carmen's whole career arc about how he wanted to
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: develop himself one way as a pitcher. When he was
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: a minor leaguer, he wouldn't listen to their pitching coordinators
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: as a prospect, and that kind of altered his career
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: path into becoming a relief pitcher. And while that's frustrating
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: for him, he reached the major leagues before anyone else
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: in the Pirates twenty twenty draft class. He established himself
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: as a reliable right handed relief arm for the twenty
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: twenty three and twenty twenty four season. But after that
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: he started counting the table and advocating for himself to
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: get opportunities as a starting pitcher, which I have no
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: issue with. I think everyone professionally deserves the opportunity to
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: fight for more for what they believe they.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Are deserving of.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: He got that opportunity, he did nothing with it, and
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: that's where this story should have ended. He got that
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: opportunity again, and in both cases, the Pirates had better options.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: They had guys who were hurt, or they had guys
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: in TRIPLEA who were.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: On a development plan.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: That's in twenty twenty five when they had Burrows and
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Ashcraft and Chandler who they were slow cooking, as we
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: like to say here on the show, and weren't going
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: to make the opening day roster regardless. And then when
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Jones got hurt, he makes the rotation by default. He
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: makes the rotation by default in twenty twenty six again
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: because Jared Jones is still hurt, and in both instances,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: whenever the better options were healthy, he gets moved out,
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: once because he's not good enough, the other time because well,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Jared Jones is just still better even though he was
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: pitching well, and the way he went about it every
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: single time just wasn't the right way, especially as of
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: late obviously this year, he makes the comments in late
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: May about talking with his agency and his family figuring
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: out what's next. He goes on the restricted list for
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: a day. And while the bullpen struggles in June and July,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: as this team is struggling to stay afloat, hovering around
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: five hundred, staying in that wildcard race, they had someone
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: who could have fixed their greatest need, who could have
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: addressed it, but he wasn't used that way, and it
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: felt like they were kind of walking on eggshells around
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: his ego. He finally gets another chance to contribute the
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: way he wants to contribute as a starter. They need
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: him to be a good starter because their starting rotations
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: hit a bit of a rough patch, and he's performed
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: the worst he's ever performed consistently as a starting pitcher
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: since getting moved back into the rotation, which I believe
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: would be August third is when Mitch Keller's injury was announced,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: although they didn't officially announce it that way, like that's
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: effectively when.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: He was put in there. So Carmen struggles.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: It's gotten to a point now where guys, I don't know,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: is there any case that can be made that this
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: experiment should go on, forget this year, beyond this year,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: or have the pirates earned the right to just say, dude,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: you're a reliever, now this is what you are.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Go ahead, Josh.
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: You know, just I had a quote I think when
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: I got a chance to playing fourteen. It took a
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: couple of years, but I said something like, you got
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: to be ready for your opportunity because you know, when
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: you get it, you don't want to, you know, miss
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: this opportunity or not be prepared for it, and in
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: a situation with this, as you said, he went in
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: and kind of beat the table to whom much is given,
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: much is expected. And you know he had an opportunity
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: not once, but twice multiple times. And granted it may
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: not have been the way that he foresaw it, like,
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: oh man, this is not At the end of the day,
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: you have an opportunity, and especially in a situation where
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: the team kind of needs most right now, as you
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: mentioned the starting pitching, you know it's taking taking a
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: bit of a blow. And I mean, these are opportunities
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: where you would like to look at look at a
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: guy like Mjeenski and say, you know, hey, you know
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: you came in being the table. This is your time
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: to show not only us, but everybody else. You know,
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: because at the end of the day, your career is
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: your career and you got to be the biggest advocate
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: for yourself. There's nothing wrong with having that confidence. As
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: you mentioned, Noah, you know, getting that opportunity for you know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: that's what anybody would want, you know that they feel
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: is deserving. But when you get that opportunity, you have
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: to seize it, and especially if you get multiple opportunities.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: Some people get more opportunities than others. So I won't
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: sit here and say should the pirates stop? Because I mean,
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: who knows he might get another opportunity. Who goes to
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: say his next start? He doesn't go out and shove.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: Who goes to say that what his career is going
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: to be. But as you mentioned, as I said, to
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: whom much is given, much is expected, and he's asked
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: for these opportunities, And as you continue to look at
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: the numbers and where his career is trending, it's hard
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: to argue that he has been significantly better out of
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: the bullpen. So at that point, not only for a
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: career thing as far as for himself like starting a reliever,
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: he's ultimately playing with his earning potential money earning as well,
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: because at some point that's an experiment that people are
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: not gonna be willing to take on, especially when you
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: know he's had some ego issues. As you've said, that's
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: a lot to deal with if you haven't quote unquote
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: really produced with what you're asking for.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'll just round this out here. I think
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: fans are pretty frustrated with Carmen Magenski. Like Josh ed,
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: you wanted to be a starter. You know, this is
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: what you ask for and you get this opportunity, and
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: this is what we see. So I think movie look
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: looking forward to twenty twenty seven, if I'm Carmen Magensky,
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: I take a long look at those splits that No
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: mentioned at the beginning of this segment and say, I
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: am a really good reliever. Why not just focus on that?
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: Because he's doing this all while still trying to kind
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: of keep in the back of his mind that he
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: wants to be a starter. We haven't seen Karmen Majenski
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: fully lean in to a bullpen roll, and who knows
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: how much better he can be out of the pen
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: if he actually fully commits to it. So I think
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: it's time for that to happen. Obviously, the Pirates need
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: starters right now. So if he finishes out twenty twenty
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: six starting, that's fine. Maybe he can figure things out.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: But his role as a starter hasn't been great. He
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: hasn't been able to go deep. His role in the
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: bullpen wasn't great because they tried to keep him stretched out,
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: it seemed like. And so it's just like this entire
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: season has just been I feel like he's just been misused,
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: and I feel like it's really Carmen's fault for that misuse,
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: as the Pirates try to cater to his wants and desires.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: So I put more blame on Carmen for that rather
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: than theirs run office or management.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just to conclude this, and I think that that
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: needs to be emphasized. This isn't just a one year
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: thing or a two year thing. This is a battle
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: he's been having for a very long time, and the Pirates,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: to their credit, have been accommodating.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: They said, hey, we're going to take you through our plan.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: First, they got him to the major leagues before any
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: other prospect that was drafted that year in his class,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: and he did well. But then they still accommodated for
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: him to him and he failed.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: So Josh had a quote. I have a quote that.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: I want to use too. I used it in my
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: column that I just tweeted out. It's by a guy
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: named Dwayne the Rock Johnson. It's called know your role
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: and shut your mouth. And sometimes that's all that needs
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: to be said.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break when we come back.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: More Pirates pitching talk here on Bucko territory.
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• 10:53
  Speaker 2: So for the entirety of the ben Charington era. The
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: one thing they could hang their hat on was I
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: doubt fying pitching talent and developing pitching talent. They've always
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: seemingly had a top pitching prospect in the sport. They've
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: always had a good eye for guys who have high
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: v low a good secondary pitch, and they've had development
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: successes with high school pitchers or college pitchers. This year
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: has not aligned with that reputation at all. When you
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: look at where all of these top prospects are in
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: their development right now, it seems like a lot of
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: them have stalled. Aside from Brax and Ashcraft, and I
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: would contend Bubba Chandler has gotten better this year as well.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: But you look in the farm system, what do you
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: have in the works aside from Seth Hernandez. I mean,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: you have a couple of guys here and there, But
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: do you have do you have your next Jared Jones
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: ready and waiting? I mean you have your next Paul Skins,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: But you have your next Jared Jones? Do you?
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Where's your next? Brax and Ashcraft? You're you're Bubba Chandler.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: You you're Mike Burrows who you were able to trade
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: for a pretty good return.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Where are these guys, where are these guys that you're
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: getting in trade returns? Now?
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: So I'll ask you, guys, when we see what the
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: pitching has devolved into this year, the starting rotation, and
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: maybe some of these guys just aren't as good as
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: we thought they'd end up being.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Mark, I'll start with you. Is it still fair to
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: call the Pirates a pitching factory?
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: I think so, even if, like the results haven't been great,
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: we still have three of the best pitchers in like
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: the NL Central with Skeens Ashcraft. I'd even throw Jones
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: in there. Bubba has looked fantastic. I think the ceiling
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: on Bubba we haven't even sniffed it, let alone scratched it.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: So I think things are still going to happen for him.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: But obviously the the like the pace of the development
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: seems to have slowed. Yeah, there's all these talents. This
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: a lot of this talent. But if you start scrolling
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: down like MLB Pipeline's top thirty list after seth nandaz It,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: it takes a while to scroll until you hit Levi Sterling,
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: who just got promoted and he's the twelfth ring prospect.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: So you have a bunch of bats finally in the system,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: which we've been waiting for. It's it's nice, but yeah,
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: it's it's concerning the falloff just because we did see
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: so much like rocket rocketed development, like it was accelerated
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: it felt like previously, and now it just feels like
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: it's just kind of like normal expected development. I don't
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: think anyone's really blown me away.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: There's a missing wave. Yeah, that's that was the thing.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, you even look back to when Josh was playing, right,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: there was those waves of prospects, and then that came
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: through waves of pitching too, where you had the Garrett
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Cole wave.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: And then there was the JMO and then.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: The the Chad Coole and Trevor Williams and Tyler Glass
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: now and all of these guys coming one after another.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: This next wave was supposed to be Harrington, it was
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: supposed to be Barco and neither of those guys really
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: have panned out to be much of anything so far.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: And it's it's it would be unfair to say their
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: careers or failures because they're both still in their early twenties,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: but these are two top one hundred prospects at one
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: point in time who you would have thought by now.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I mean they both debuted last year. I mean, hell,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Harrington debuted in like April of last year, and they're
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: not providing any sort of value and it's it's kind
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: of hard to picture them being starting rotation candidates next year.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, they can't even beat out Carmen, who we
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: just talked about his credentials as a starting pitcher. So
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: I think there is another wave coming. I think there
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: are some younger guys in high A and low A
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: right now, but there we're missing.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: We're missing that marquee Arme in Double A and triple A.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Yea.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Some of those guys I think might have.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Been flipped into a reliever out of necessity this year,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: and they probably could use more further development to be
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: a back end starter. But I don't see any front
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: line rotation prospects aside from Seth Hernandez right now yea, which.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Is in the end of the world.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: But that's kind of when that's the when that's the
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: thing that you've always sold your organization on, is we're
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: gonna keep churning out front end.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Starters, and they did for a really long time.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: When you don't have that, when you miss on that
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: wave with Barco and Harrington, uh and just some of
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: these other guys kind of cooling down.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: It shows Yeah, but I'll I'll chime in here where
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: this question is ultimately going to be answered over the
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: next couple of years because you threw out some names.
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: But we also live in a different you know, era
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: of baseball where developing pictures and developing hitters were different.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: Where yes, the Pirates have always had an I for
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: as you mentioned, you know, talent, especially with arms, but
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: at now you're seeing a part to where's okay, these
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: guys have the talent, but now this is where the
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: real development comes in. You have to develop that talent
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: into consistent, you know, consistent arms, going out there, being
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: able to pitch and compete at a high level. Because
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: it's no longer the days of just being able to
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: go out there and say this guy has good stuff.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: Because all the guys that you mentioned that came up
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: in those years past, they were pretty much helped with
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: building an identity from the minute they came into Pirates
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: from the minor leagues as how to go about attacking
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: a hitter, not just relying on stuff. Granted a lot
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: of people rely on stuff and as you say, right now,
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: you don't see a lot of names other than Seth Hernandez.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: This is where you can find those I don't want
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: to say diamonds in a rough, but this is where
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: this will really answer if this is the pitching factory,
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: because you're gonna need some of those names that you've mentioned,
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: like Ain't like you've mentioned his name before, Brandon Compton.
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: He was somebody that just hey, the Pirates were able
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: to develop him into a starter where you know what,
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: he might not have had the stuff off the off
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: the charts like a glass now or a coal, but
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: you know what, he knew how to pitch with his stuff.
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: And right now it's also a little awkward timing for
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: the pitching too. You gotta you gotta change and you know,
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: pitching up top at the at the major league level,
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: which is gonna, you know, cause a little difference, you know,
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: and maybe some communication down to the minor league pitching
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: coordinator and just what they see and how they communicate.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: So that that's really going to have to be an
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: answer that they're going to have to have somebody step
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: up because, as you mentioned, if they got the talent,
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: you can't just rely on the talent. It's time to
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: put you know, being this pitching factory. Let's grab this talent.
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: Let's let's show me we Marco. We need you to
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: be what you know we have asked you to be,
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: but we can't do it for you. But we gotta
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: be able to identify what can help you get there.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: And right now they're in a little law period because
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: as you mentioned, what do you feel like? You don't
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: really feel confident about what's coming up, So they're gonna
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: have to answer something, but I don't that's a question
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: that still remains to be answered because once you get
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: a little past Majinski, which right now, that's the depth
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: of what they have, somebody's gonna have to make a
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: name for themselves. And otherwise you're gonna be taking that
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: question mark off and you're gonna be answering like okay,
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure if they are yep.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: And just to wrap this up, just you look, I
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: think the pirates were more high.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: They got high on their own supply a little bit
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: this year.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I think that they felt that they had enough internal
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: depth where they didn't need to really address their pitching.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: They traded away obeedo.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: They traded away Burrows, and not that those guys would
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: have helped much this year anyway, but they didn't add
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: to the bullpen because I think they felt that that
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: next wave of young arms, the Antoine Kelly's, the Wilberd
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: hotels could do more, the Brandon Boudoirs could probably do more.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Than they actually were capable of this year.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: And so that's where like to me, when I think
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: pitching factory, it's it is what the pirates tried to do,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: saying we don't need to worry about this area. We've
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: got enough depth internally where we have guys that you
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: might not know about, but we know about and we
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: know they're gonna be good. And it turns out some
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: of those guys weren't as good as they thought they'd
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: be this year. And I'm just more interested now moving
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: forward to see how they go about the offseason in
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, heading into twenty twenty seven, is this
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: an area still where they feel like, Okay, well we're
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: going to figure out on how to replace Brandon Lao
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: and what to do at third base, or are they
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: going to finally start adding to this pitching group. Even
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: though they made some additions to the bullpen. Do they
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: feel like, you know, hey, maybe we don't have the
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: internal depth. Maybe this factory is in as humming as
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: we thought. So we're gonna take another break when we
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: come back. Final segment of the show talking Andy Rodriguez.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Here on Bucco Territory.
• 19:50
  Speaker 6: See Gek is the official ticket marketplace for Major League Baseball,
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  Speaker 6: and anytime you want to go to a game, you
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a great option. And summer is coming to
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  Speaker 7: an end here soon. I'm going out and finding all
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• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Andy Rodriguez back on the IL. That's not necessarily new news,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: but he is continuing to deal with left hip issues
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: that started in June. Todd tom Zack said Rodriguez is
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: getting second opinions, which would lead to an update later
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: this week.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: That was reported by the Post.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Because that's Colin Beasley, my coworker, and I'm relaying just
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: the latest information we have on Tuesday afternoon. Regardless of
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: what that information is, it seems like Andy's gonna be
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: down for some more time in this mark. She had
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: another season where we're not seeing a lot of dye Rodriguez.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I don't want.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: I hate saying you know, guys are injury prone, because
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: no one in any walk of life, it wakes up
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: and it's like, you.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Know what I'm gonna do today, I'm want to get injured.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: That's gonna make my day about it? Right? Yeah?
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Like no, no, I don't care what you do for
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: a living, unless you like you work for jackass. Like
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: those guys might actually wake up and say that. But
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: aside from you know, Steve O and Johnny Knoxville and
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: we Man, you know, most other people don't enjoy getting injured.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: That being said, that's kind of the reality of sports.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, there are so many different people in the
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: world of sports, in the world of baseball, could have
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: a different history if they could have stayed healthy for
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: one reason or another. And sometimes it's out of their control.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they could have trained better. Sometimes you know, it's
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: a freak accident, whatever it is. But that's part of
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: the deal here. And when you have a guy now
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: who's had some bad luck with the hand stitches, he's
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: had a couple of elbow injuries.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Now he has the hip thing, and he plays the
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: most physically demanding position on the field, and.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: He's at really a size where you can't really play
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: him at his second position at first base. It doesn't
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: really make sense, especially with the depth they have at
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: that spot. I'll ask you, guys, what does Indy Rodriguez's
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: future look like? Is this just kind of what he's
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: gonna be. He's gonna be you know, a one a
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: catcher when he's healthy, and you just got to expect
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: that he's gonna be one of those guys that he's
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: going to get banged up throughout the years.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Or is he still young enough.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: That you should still hold out hope that he can
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: last throughout the duration of an entire major league season.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: We'll start with Josh.
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: Obviously, he's shown flashes of when he's healthy that he
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: can be a valuable piece. And coming from a guy
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: who I agree with everything you say, no nobody wakes
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: up wanting to say they want to get injured. I
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: had five or six straight seasons of at least six
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: weeks on the injury list, so I didn't want to
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: get my hand broken twice, nor have surgery twice. But
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: at the same time, you know, I look around. There
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: are people that have unfortunate injuries. Mine we're unfortunate. Some
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: people are a little bit more severe. Some people were
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: able to make it back just due to you know,
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: that's the nature of sports. You know, you don't give
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: up until you get that opportunity. And you know, Indy,
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: I'm sure I can't speak for Indy, but I think
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: he's still young enough to where I know he wants
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: to and he's going to do everything he can, and
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: he wants to show that he can be a major
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: League baseball player for a full season. It's just, you know,
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: one of those things where the game is going to
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: continue to be played. You know, that's for every player
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: that's playing now and that's in the future. And injuries
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: are something that you want to try to prevent. And
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: I know, for me, I look back at some of
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: my injuries. Could I have prevented some of them? I
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: don't think I could have prevented getting hit in the hand,
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: you know by ninety six miles an hour, you know,
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: couldn't really prevent tearing the LIGAMENTO my thumb, sliding, just
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: kind of some things that you think about. But you know,
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: some other injuries that might have led to, you know,
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: some surgeries from other people or even myself. It's playing
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: through you know, things that you probably shouldn't have, you know,
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: So when you have injuries, one thing it does make
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: you do is take better inventory of what your body
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: is feeling. And I know when I had injuries, as
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: I said, mine or freak, you know, I broke my
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: hand toward my ligament, but it did make me realize that, Okay,
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: if my left hip is hurting, that don't mean that Okay,
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe it is good for me to take
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: a day and go to the training room and get
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: that addressed as opposed to going out here and playing.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: I played hard and he plays catcher, you know. So
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: it's one of those things where you start to understand
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: that fine line of what is too much, and unfortunately
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: for me, I had to learn it a little sooner.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: But I also played through things, and same thing for Indy.
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: He's being put through some things that he literally is
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: going to have to not not saying he didn't listen
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: to his body, but that's always going to be the
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: question of not everybody returns back to form after injuries.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: There's physical limitations for some people, sometimes it's mental. And
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: then missing missing the speed of the game is also real.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: You know, you miss games as valuable and being behind
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: the plate, that's the one position that you get to
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: see everything and that is valuable time missed. So I
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: know the pirates that's getting a second opinion. They want to,
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: you know, obviously, take every me to make sure that
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: whatever is going on or not going gone, that they
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: cross it off because, as I said, when he's healthy,
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: he's showing that he's productive, and you know, you want
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: to do your due diligence just you know, anyway, just
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: to take care of your player, take care of your person.
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: But you know, I know they want to get down
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: to the bottom of it. But I do think that
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: they have to kind of I don't want to say
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: resort to plan B, but you do have to prepare
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: as if you know you're gonna need to possibly think
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: about having that third catcher that can go up and down.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: If this is somebody that you really see in your future.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: Plans, Yeah, I think it's Uh, you're reaching the point
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: now after however many injuries, this is to Andy where
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: it seems like it might be time to move him
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: off of catcher. Uh. And we've seen him play other
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: positions in the minor leagues before. He played some first base, obviously,
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: we've seen him do that in MLB. He's played a
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: little bit second base even in the minors. So maybe
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: this offseason, assuming that he can get help, maybe it's
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: time where you say, can we move you to another
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: position to work on because his bat is so valuable
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: in this lineup. We've seen how much you can contribute,
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: especially as a switch hitter, and so you want to
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: get him in the lineup. But if you can't stay
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: a catcher, you can't put him in the lineup as
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: a catcher if he's not gonna stay and stay healthy.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: So you have to figure out that decision. It sucks
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: because Andy is just so much fun to watch. He's
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: one of my favorite players. Lights up the clubhouse. You
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: can just tell when when he's there, like he brings
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: an impact, easy guy to root for. So it really
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: sucks that the easiest, one of the easiest guys to
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: root for is also the most injury prone. It seems
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: really frustrating, but hey, that's baseball and you got to
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: find a way to work through it. And maybe Andy
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: comes back and can actually stay healthy. But I'm not
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: gonna get my hopes up.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm getting my hopes up for is
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: that people hit the subscribe button if they haven't already.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: There were on a mission of three thousand subs. Can't
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: get there without your help. And while you're at it,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: check out our Bucko Territory Team store.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I've got a lot of good stuff there as well.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Look at Mark Rock in the territory hurt.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, any final thoughts before we wrap up today's show.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: My final thought is I've loved the crowds at PNC.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: There's been some really tough games, a two and a
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: half hour rain delay, and people were still sitting there,
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: stayed around and were loud after chanting like let's go
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: bucks after two and a half hours in the rain.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Just really impressed by the fan base. They're sticking around,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: hanging in there, making this fun forming a pee with
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: the tarps off section while you're down eight to one.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: So I appreciate that as a fan, just keeping your
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: head up, still having fun, even if the results haven't
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: been very fun.
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: What about you, Josh, No, As you said, the energy,
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: keep the fans, you know, it's still cool to see
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: him believing. As we had this conversation, I think the
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: other day, it seems like the fans still had keep
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: that and uh just wanted to piggyback. No, happy birthday
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: to your sister.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: There you go, Oh, thank you. My final thought.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: My final thought is just a peak behind the curtain here.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: There might have been times this show where I looked
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: like I was rolling my eyes when someone else was talking.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: They're they're painting my building right in front of my
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: window right now. So I'm just watching the grown men
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: just slider right across the window. And at first I
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: didn't know what they were doing. So I was also
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: like texting my landlord, like, what is happening right now?
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Why are their men just right outside my windows? Yeah,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: when Josh is talking about his injury throughout his career,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not rolling my eyes at his at his tragedies
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: and triumphs. I was just very distracted by something I
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: did not anticipate having to deal with mid show. So
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: it's fun. Yes that Happy birthday, Cassidy, and thank you
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: as always to everyone who keeps tuning in. We'll have
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: more Bucko Territory for you on Friday. He's Platinum Key,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: He's Josh Harrison. I'm no Ohio signing off. Thanks for
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: tuning into another episode of Bucko Territory, presented to you
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: by the Foul Territory Network.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Take care,