Latest / The Path Went Chilly / Colonel Phillip Shue Pt. One

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Colonel Phillip Shue Pt. One · The Path Went Chilly

• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Pathway Chili. I'm Robin, I'm Jules.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: And I'm Ashley. Let's dive right into this week's case.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: April sixteenth, two thousand and three, Kendall County, Texas, Fifty
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: four year old Colonel Philip Schue, who works as a
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: staff psychiatrist for the United States Air Force, leaves his
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: residence to drive to work. Two and a half hours later,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: Colonel Shoe's car is seen driving erradically down the interstate
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: before it crashes into some trees and Shoe is found
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: dead in the ever seed. Even though his death is
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: ruled to be a suicide, there are a number of
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: suspicious discrepancies, as there's duct tape around his wristen feet,
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: a large gash in his chest, and both of his
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: nipples have been removed. There's suspicion that Sho's ex wife
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: had him tortured and killed in order to cash in
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: on some life insurance policies, but even though a judge
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: eventually rules that she was the victim of a homicide,
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: his official cause of death is never changed.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: After that, the path went chilly, So today we're going
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: to be delving into one of the oddest mysteries we've
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: ever covered the unexplained two thousand and three death of
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Colonel Philip Schue. We've explored a lot of cases in
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: which a victim's death was ruled to be a suicide,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: even though there were a number of suspicious details which
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: made their loved ones suspect foul play, But the circumstances
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: of this case are so bizarre that it stands out
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: from the pack. Colonel Phillips Sheue was a psychiatrist with
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: the United States Air Force who was only months away
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: from retirement and had future plans with his wife, Tracey.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: But after leaving his home one morning for what should
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: have been a routine work day, he was killed in
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: a car crash less than three hours later. But this
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: was no ordinary car crash because when Scho's body was found,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: he had duct tape wrapped around his wrist and feet
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: and a number of unexplained injuries which could not have
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: been caused by the accident, as there was a large
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: gash in his chest and both his nipples and a
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: digit from one of his fingers had been removed and
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: could not be found at the scene. And believe it
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: or not, the authorities were inclined to believe that Colonel
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Chue inflicted these injuries on himself before intentionally crashing his
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: car in a very elaborate suicide. Prior to his death,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Shue had displayed a lot of paranoid and erratic behavior
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: because he was convinced his ex wife was planning to
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: kill him in order to cash in on some lucrative
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: insurance policies she had taken out on his life as
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: part of their divorce settlement. For this reason, some people,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: including Schu's widow, believed that his ex wife abducted and
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: tortured him, and when he attempted to make an escape,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: he wound up losing control of his car it was
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: killed in a fatal crash. At a civil trial years later,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: a judge publicly expressed his belief that Colonel Shoe was
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: the victim of a homicide, but since he did not
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: have the legal authority to make that ruling, the authority
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: still officially consider Shoe's death to be a suicide. It's
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: a pretty baffling case because even though there are a
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: lot of odd discrepancies about the suicide ruling, which cannot
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: be adequately explained, it's not that easy to come up
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: with a scenario involving foul play which makes much sense either.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: So we're going to explore both sides on today's episode.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: So you said, we've talked about some odd cases before.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: This is already one of the more bizarre cases we've
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: discussed because of the injuries to Colonel Shoe. When you
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: look at the way he left the house and then
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: is seen driving erradically down the highway, it does almost
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: seem like he's having an altercation with somebody, and when
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: you look at his injuries, it would appear so as well.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: But then there's the question if the car crashes, how
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: does the person who's attacking him guarantee that they're going
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: to get out right or they're going to get away
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: And there's no sign of another individual. No one sees
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: someone fleeing from the car, but someone had to have
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: gotten into a argument with him or injured him, or
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: he completed these injuries elsewhere or through his nipples out
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: the window. I mean, it seems incredibly bizarre if this
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: is a stage suicide because of the way his body's found.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is one of the biggest cases I can
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: think of where the timeline is so crucial. Because we
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: have a window of nearly three hours where Colonel Shoes
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: whereabouts are on accounted for, and to this day they've
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: never been able to figure out where he was and
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: what happened to him. So, either he was abducted and
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: someone was torturing him and he managed to make an
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: escape before he crashed his car, or he just drove
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: to some remote area and was doing stuff like cutting
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: off his own nipples and then just decided to crash
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: his intentionally. And it's just so wild that all this
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: time has passed and no one has been able to
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: find any conclusive evidence of where he was during that
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: window of time.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: Was he missing an entire finger or just like a
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: partial finger.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: A partial finger, like a digit on one of his fingers,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: like the top part.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: So for me, when you look at this, did his
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: wife say that he left and was agitated.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: At that time?
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: Or was it a pretty normal morning?
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: And does it take three hours to get to work
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: or should he have been at work pretty quickly?
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: He should have been at work within an hour or so.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: And as far as his wife was concerned, he seemed
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: perfectly normal that morning. There was no indication that he
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: was having any mental health problems and he didn't arrive
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: at work, so it seems apparent that something happened before
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: he made it there. But was he abducted or he
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: just decided to do this to himself.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: Our story begins in Kendall County, Texas, in two thousand
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: and three, and our central figure is fifty four year
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: old Philip Michael Schue, who goes by the name Phil.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: Phil lives just outside the town of Bourne with his wife,
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Tracy Shoe, and holds the rank of colonel in the
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: United States Air Force. Born in Brooksville, Ohio, Phil joined
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: the Air Force in nineteen seventy and served as a
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: navigator for four years, but had to cut his career
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: short after he was diagnosed with Minier's disease, a disorder
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: which was caused by the build up of fluid in
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: the chambers of the inner ear. As a result, Phil
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: had several episodes in which he experienced a sudden loss
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: of consciousness, and of course, this made him too much
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: of a liability to be an aviator. After leaving the
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: Air Force for ten years, Phil trained to become a
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: physician's assistant and completed medical school before he was accepted
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: into a four year residency program at the Wright Patterson
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: Air Force Medical Center in Dayton, Ohio. Upon completion of
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: this program, he was assigned to Eggland Air Force Base
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: in Florida and became their chief medical director of impatient
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: mental health. It was here where Phil became acquainted with
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: his future wife, Tracy, who was assigned there as an
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: Air Force forced nurse, and they gradually began a relationship.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: During this time period, Phil was legally separated from his
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: first wife, Nancy, whom he had originally married back in
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy. The couple were high school sweethearts, but Phil
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: would later say that there was no real love or
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: compatibility in their relationship, and he only agreed to marry
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Nancy because she was six months pregnant at the time.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: She soon gave birth to a son named Jeffrey, though
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: many people noticed that he did not appear to look
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: all that much like Phil. At the time, Nancy had
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: supposedly been carrying on an affair with another man, but
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Phil never asked for any paternity testing to confirm that
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: he was Jeffrey's biological father, and raised him as if
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: he were his own son. Even though Phil and Nancy's
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: marriage had completely fallen apart by the end of the
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: nineteen eighties. Their divorce was not actually finalized until nineteen
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: ninety two, as Phil wanted to complete his service commitment
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: and ensure that Nancy, who was unemployed at the time,
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: would still be allowed to retain all of his military benefits.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: By this point, Phil was already deeply involved in his
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: relationship with Tracy, and they would get married less than
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: one year following the divorce. Ten years later, Phil and
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: Tracy were living together in Kendall County, Texas, as he
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: was assigned to work as a staff psychiatrist aerospace medicine
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: physician at the Wilford Hall Medical Center located at Lackland
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Air Force Base in San Antonio. The Shoes had made
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: plans for the future, as Phil was finally going to
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: retire from the Air Force. During the fall, he was
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: accepted into a forensic psychiatry fellowship program at the University
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: of Alabama, and the couple had already put a down
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: payment on a new lakefront home near Birmingham.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Here's what's so interesting with Colonel Shoe is that he
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: is a psychiatrist and he's head of the mental health
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: facility at a military base, he's pursuing even more education
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: and forensic psychiatry following his retirement. And so if you're
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: talking about mental health episode and something that would cause
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: you to stage just suicide so elaborate, you would think
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: that Phil alone would actually be able to say, Hey,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: I'm struggling right, I'm showing signs of X, Y and
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Z diagnoses and I need help. And even if he
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: wasn't going outside of his practice to seek professional help,
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: he and his wife should have had many discussions where
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: he was talking about his own mental health. And if
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I just don't think that someone that
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: was a psychiatrist could be pursuing so many big things
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: and have such a significant break so quickly. Yes, he
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: was paranoid about his ex wife, as you alluded to
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: in the intro, but you would think there was a
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: rapid decline or you would see signs pointing to this
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: mental health episode, and that Phil himself would likely have
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: noticed it as well, wouldn't you.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Oh Yeah, And as we're going to talk about, Phil
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: was seeing a psychiatrist on his own because he did
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: have a few issues with depression and anxiety, but it
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: didn't really sound like he was depressed enough that he
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: appeared to be suicidal, and not nearly at the point
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: where he would commit an elaborate suicide by doing stuff
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: like cutting off his own nipples and a piece of
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: his finger. And like we just said, they had plans
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: for the future, they were planning to do a They
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: just did a down payment on a new home in Alabama.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: So even though you can never really predict if someone
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: is going to be suicidal, there just aren't signs here
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: that he would be capable of doing what they accused
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: him of.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: And also, don't you normally see that people who are
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: in mental health professions, they actually are encouraged to seek
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: help because you're dealing with other patients who have often
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: heavy trauma and all kinds of issues that they're coming
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: to you for. And so often I've heard that therapist counselors, psychiatrists, psychologists,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: that a lot of them is kind of routine to
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: go ahead and see another specialist because you're dealing with
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: that mental health crisis all the time in your professional life.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: That is definitely true. But if either of you heard
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: of case Hughes, do you know who he is?
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: No?
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I don't think so.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: No, he's a neuroscientist. He's got a bunch of degrees.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: He trains all the three letter agencies military on like
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: behavioral profiling, and that's his area of expertise. He's thought
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: to be like the top profiler in the world. And
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: he was having episodes for three years where he didn't
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: even realize what was happening. He was just experiencing just
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: this mental decline. But he went back and watched all
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: these videos where he was guesting on other people's youtubes.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: He's got a really popular they've got like a million
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: subscribers on YouTube's called the Behavioral Panel. They read body
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: language and they do statement analysis and that type of
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: a thing, and it's really good if anyone's interested. But
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: he would go on these YouTube videos and he would
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: like gray out. He wouldn't realize that he was having
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: these moments where he was having a seizure. Essentially, they'd
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: be like not like a grand Mall seizure, they're like
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: these little seizures. But it got to the point where
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: he just didn't see it in himself. But when he
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: looked back in retrospect after getting this diagnosis, he realized, like,
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: oh my god, this is something that's been happening for years,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: and people that are close to me might have noticed
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: little things, but they just thought he's the top of
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: his field, this is what he studies. He is going
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: to recognize this in himself, and like nobody said anything
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: to him.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Was he having any seizures on live streams during his video?
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they like obvious though, right, it would just like
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: he would space out. And it got to the point
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: at the worst part of it where he was taking
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: his wife where she was going to give birth and
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: he didn't know who she was. Oh well, he thought like,
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: if I just keep going along with this, I'm hopefully
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: going to get the answer. And he's luckily he did
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: all of these different protocols and managed to make I think,
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: like pretty much a full recovery, but which is rather
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: miraculous given to his diagnosis and what the long term
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: the prognosis was really negative.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: His story is.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: A really interesting one. So I think that you're likely
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: right ash that somebody would notice those things within himselfs
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: and it would seem like he would probably be talking
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: to somebody. But there is always that possibility that people
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: may notice things and just not pointed out because they're like, well,
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: he's got a hold of this like he knows what
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: he's doing well.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: At around five forty five am on the morning of
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: April the sixteenth, after saying goodbye to his wife, Phil
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: left his home at his nineteen ninety five Mercury Tracer
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: in order to drive to Lachland Air Force Base, which
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: was located about thirty miles away. This was about an
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: hour earlier than when Phil usually left for work, but
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: he said he needed to catch up on some paperwork
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: that morning. But over the course the next two and
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: a half hours, a bizarre series of events would take
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: place which have never been adequately explained. Sometime between eight
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: and eight fifteen am, a pair of motorists would report
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: seeing Phil's Mercury Tracer erradically swerving while driving westbound off
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Interstate ten. This location was relatively close to San Antonio,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: but he was traveling in the opposite direction of the
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: air Force base. The tracer would drive onto the Interstate
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Center Medium and travel several hundred yards negotiating between two
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: light poles before it struck an object. This caused the
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: vehicle to briefly go airborne, but after it came back
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: down on all four wheels, it returned to the interstate
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: and continued traveling westbound. The two motorists behind the tracers
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: said that it drove between sixty to sixty five miles
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: per hour for the next few minutes, but after it
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: passed the exit for John's Road, it veered off the
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: right shoulder. It then crossed the side medium and the
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: access rode for about forty three feet before it clipped
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: a tree and spun sharply in a clockwise direction until
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: it crashed into a second free with great force. When
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: emergency workers arrived at the scene, they discovered Colonel Shoe's
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: body in the driver's seat as the impact of the crash.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: It caused a driver's side to cave in, and he
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: was killed instantly after suffering fatal head trauma. However, it
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: soon became apparent that this was not a normal accident,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: as Shoe had duct tape wrapped around each of his
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: wrists as well as the top of each of his boots.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: The loose end of each piece of tape was dangling
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: about four to five inches from his wrists, and since
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: no roll of duct tape could be found at the scene,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: it almost appeared that she had been bound at some
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: point before he managed to break free. The colonel also
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: had a number of strange injuries on his body which
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: had clearly not been caused by the crash. The T
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: shirt beneath his Air Force uniform was ripped open from
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: the chest to the navel, and he had a six
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: inch vertical gash in his chest. The distal joint from
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: the pinky finger on Shoe's left hand had been removed,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and most disturbingly, both of Shoe's nipples were cut off.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: The missing digit and the nipples could not be found
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: inside the vehicle or anywhere near the accident scene, even
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: though she was carrying forty seven dollars in his pants pocket.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: His wallets and military dog tags couldnot be found either
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: and were never recovered. Since no one could place the
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: colonel at the Wilford Hall Medical Center that morning, it
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: seemed apparent that he never arrived at work and something
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: very odd happened to him during the two and a
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: half hour window after he left his home.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, so we can establish likely that this wasn't a
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: staged car accident. That's what I was initially kind of thinking.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: But it's more.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Likely that you would have an attacker in the car
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: with him. Maybe that the attack was supposed to happen
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: with the car parked and Colonel Shoe was able to
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: drive away, or maybe things were fine and he had
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: been subdued and was then able to start attacking his
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: attacker while they're driving. But you see these people watching
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: him veer off, hit an object, go air Morne. Does
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: anyone see the actual crash and have eyes on the
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: vehicle the entire time before emergency responders get there?
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Uh? Pretty much? Yeah, Like it's a certainty to me
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: that if he did have an attacker, that person was
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: not in the car with him when it crashed, and
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: that if there was an outside third party involved, it
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: had to have taken place at another location, and Shoe
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: was just driving away as fast as he can for
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: dear life, and if there are any other cars fallowing
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: him that could have been driven by his attack, or
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: it does not sound like any of the motorists noticed.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: It, Okay, So there's the likelihood that he was being
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: abused and attacked, and then he gets in his vehicle
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: and flees and possibly like a loss of blood and
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: trauma and shock all that's making it where he's erratically
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: driving and then crashes the car pretty much.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it was established that the accident was what
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: killed him, but it's just a matter was someone torturing
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: him and trying to kill him before this happened.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: That's wild because I was wondering, how did someone have
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: eyes on the vehicle and no one else gets out?
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: But then that makes perfect sense. He actually fled the
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: scene of the attack alone, and then because of the
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: medical repercussions of that abuse, it's.
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: Likely that he wasn't able to keep control of the car.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Pretty much.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if that was done to you, can you imagine
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: how terrified you would be, Like you would not be
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: in your right state of mind. Your adrenaline would be
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: pumping like a million miles a minute, and you're just
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: trying to get away from this horrific scene where somebody's
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: been torturing you. I just have a hard time believing
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: somebody who seemed to be exhibiting no signs of mental distress,
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: somebody who's a psychiatrist who's very educated on these things,
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: would then remove his nipples. I mean, did they say
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: that the nipples were removed with any kind of like
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: surgical certainty or anything, Robin.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Not really, No, like they think it was done by
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: a cutting tool of some sort, but there wasn't a
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: cutting tool inside the car, So if he did it
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: to himself, he left the nipples and the cutting tool
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: at another location.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: And if he did it to himself, he couldn't have
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: done it in the car, most likely because there would
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: be a lot of blood present, right exactly.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: They didn't find any blood in there to indicate that
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: they had been removed inside the vehicle. For some reason,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Tracy Chu did not learn about her husband's fatal crash
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: for several hours, as the Kendall County Sheriff's Office showed
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: up at her residence to a former about what happened
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: at around three pm. According to Tracy, even though they
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: did not mention that tape had been wrapped around Phil's
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: wrists and ankles, she was not told about the strange
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: injuries and mutilation to her husband's body until a San
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Antonio newspaper reporter phoned her up and asked for comment
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: about it about a month and a half later. On
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: the surface, it almost appeared that at some point during
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: his commute to work, Phil had been abducted and tortured
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: at an unknown location, but managed to escape. He made
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: it back to his own car and attempted to flee,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: but lost control of the vehicle and was killed before
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: he managed to get help. But believe it or not,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: after a lengthy investigation which involved several agencies, including the
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: local and state police and the Air Force Office of
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Special Investigations, they all reached the conclusion that Colonel Schue
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: had suffered some sort of psychological breakdown and his death
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: was an elaborate suicide. Shoe's autopsy was performed at the
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: office of doctor Vincent Demyo, Medical Examiner of Bear County, Texas.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Doctor Demyo was also considered to be one of the
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: top forensic pathologists in the country, and he concurred with
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: the suicide ruling. According to the two motorists who would
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: follow behind Shoe's Mercury Tracer on Interstate ten, the brake
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: lights never went on when the vehicle veered off the road,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: and since no skid marks could be found at the scene,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: it appeared that she made no attempt to stop himself
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: from crashing into the tree. There were no defensive wounds
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: found on Shoe's body to indicate any struggle had taken place,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: and the autopsy uncovered scratch abrasions near the gash in
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: his chest, which appeared to be consistent with hesitation marks,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: almost as if he had been working himself up to
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: self inflict those wounds. She also had two point four
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: milligrams per leader of an anesthetic called letocane in his system,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: and it wouldn't have made much sense for a third
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: party to inject him with a pain killer if they
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: were planning to torture him. This made doctor Demiyo suspect
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: that she injected the litocane into himself in order to
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: dull the pain while he slashed his own chest and
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: cut off his own nipples and fingertip. Demayo did not
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: buy the theory that she was in the midst of
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: attempting to escape from his captors, because he did not
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: make any apparent attempt to seek help. Right before he
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: crashed his car, Shoe drove past several businesses as well
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: as three exits which would have taken him back to
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: his hometown of Born. In addition, he passed by a
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: patrol car from the Born Police Department, which had pulled
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: over by the side of the interstate to assist a
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: motorists and was easily visible because of its flashing lights.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Shoe's cell phone was also found inside his vehicle, but
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: records would show that no calls were made from the
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: phone that morning.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, so now my brain is spinning because the light
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: of cane. Addition, when you look at the injuries and
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: they say that there's quote hesitation marks, quite interesting, and
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: the fact that there's an anesthetic in his body to
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: numb the area that he's cutting, or that someone's cutting.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Like you said, it makes no sense that someone who
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: wants to actually hurt you is going.
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: To do such a thing.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: But when you look at the idea of the tape
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: and the just huge gas down the center of his chest,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: it's bizarre. Where was his wallet? Where were some of
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: these other things? And I think that you can explain
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: no break lights with him losing consciousness. If he was
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: passing out because of a loss of blood or the
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: pain or shock is wearing off and he just loses consciousness,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: he wouldn't hit the brakes. He would fly off the
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: road and have no break lights going, or the kind
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: of skid marks that come.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: The final thing.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: No one told his poor wife any of these details.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: She learns from a newspaper article. I'm just very perplexed
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: about all of this. But the light A Kane completely
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: adds that layer of what the heck happened? Did he
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: do this to himself? That's the one thing, not really
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: hesitation marks, not really all the other things, but the LIGHTO.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Kane is the one thing that puts me in the
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: camp of maybe he did do it to himself.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, so he's a doctor. He knows that if he's
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: trying to stage a suicide, they're going to do a
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: talk screen on him, They're going to check for all
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: types of drugs, especially due to the mysterious nature of it.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: So to use an anesthetic would be counterintuitive, like, yeah,
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: it would help you at the time, but it's not
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: going to help sell your murder theory or if you're
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: trying to frame your ex wife or something like that,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: or obviously add some kind of mysterious element to what
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: you're doing. There seems to be some kind of plan,
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: whether it be by his ex wife or by Philip.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I just I also think it's possible
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: that an outside party could if they were trying to
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: make it look like some kind of strange suicide. Maybe
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: there could be the inclusion of LTA Kane. It seems
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: far fetched, but anything is possible.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in a few moments we're going to share a potential, alternate,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: innocent explanation for why he had that lidocane in his system,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: which had nothing to do with torture. But a lot
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: of these points they bring up about why he did
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: pull over and try to seek out from the police, Well,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Jules just talk about that a few moments ago, about
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: how he must have been terrified and not thinking rationally,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: so I could give him a pass, Like even though
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: he passed by a police car, if he was in
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: such a panic and it had such an adrenaline rush
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: going on right now, he may not have even noticed it.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: And that's why he's driving so fast, because he's terrified
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: and fleeing for his life, and unfortunately he wound up
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: crashing his car.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Two years after Colonel Shoe was killed, the Lachland Detachment
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations produced a
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: twenty page document called the Psychological Autopsy, which also concluded
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: that his death was a suicide. The report represented the
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: position of two boards certified forensic psychiatrists from the Armed
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: Forces Institute of Pathology. Lieutenant Commander Gerald Donovan and Colonel
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: Elsbeth Cameron Ritchie, who believed that Choo's mental state made
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: him depressed, anxious, and paranoid. In the months before he
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: was killed, she had been receiving treatment from Lieutenant Colonel
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: Douglas Dion, a staff psychiatrist to the Brooks Army Medicals,
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: and six months before he died, she reportedly told Dion
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: that he'd experienced a dark and disturbing associated episode in
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: which he imagined his cargoing out of control on his
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: way to work while great violence was done to him.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: If true, this seemed to support the idea that she
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: would stage the fatal car crash on his own accord well.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: Needless to say, Tracy Chu did not believe her husband
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: would have taken his own life, as she and philid
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: made plans for the future, and he actually put a
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: deposit down on the house they purchased in Alabama the
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: day before he died. Tracy's original plan was to have
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: Phil's body cremated and his remains interred at Arlington National
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: Cemetery in Virginia, but the suicide ruling changed all that,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: and she ordered the funeral home to store her husband's
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: body in a refrigerated crypt.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: He predicted this exact scenario happening to him.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Well, as we're going to go up talk about later
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: on in the episode. That psychiatrist has disputed this, claiming
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: that Phil never actually said that. But if he did
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: predict it, though, then that does give credence to the
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: idea that he could have staged the whole thing.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's really bizarre.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: It's interesting because when you look at this, like she said,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: he put it down payment on our house. We had
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: these big plans. Now, could he have put it down
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: payment on the home so that Tracy's one step closer
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: to getting her dream home and this house she wants,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: and then he still takes his own life. Sure, but
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: again it's very bizarre. I think the fact that he
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: was depressed and anxious and paranoid, if you have that
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: going on. One, he's getting help, which I think is incredible.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Two he has these issues with his ex wife I
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: believe you guys alluded to. That's really stressful. He's retiring,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: changing jobs, moving, starting a new career, and a fellowship
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: for a new medical adventure. So there's a lot of
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: pressure on his shoulders. It doesn't make you suicidal to
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: be anxious and depressed and worried about things. So I mean, yes,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: that alludes to it, But everyone who's anxious and depressed
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: is not suicidal, is what I meant. So when you
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: look at this, I just unless he really did predict this,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: which again would be a tally over in the suicide category,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: it just seems like, yeah, he was struggling, he's getting help,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: and he's making plans with his wife. I'm with Tracy
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: where she says, why would he do this? I don't
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: think he would do this? And I think it's incredibly
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: bold that she says, you're not going to get rid
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: of my husband's body yet, I'm not cremating him. You're
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: actually going to keep him in the refrigerated crypt. How
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: long does he stay there?
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: He's been there for a couple of years, and he
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: never did get cremated. He finally did get buried. But
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: it sounded like she was on the verge of having
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: him cremated until she got that phone call from the
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: reporter or asking about these details she never knew about,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: like the removed nipples, and then she just suddenly says, Okay,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: this is not a standard suicide. We're gonna look closer
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: into this, so I am not going to cremate my husband.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Tracy eventually hired the services of another famous forensic pathologist,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: doctor Cyril Weckt, who performed his own autopsy. He expressed
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: his disagreement with doctor Demio's original conclusion, as he believed
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: that another person was likely involved in Shoe's death. Even
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: though Demyo believed that she had injected himself with lydocane
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: in order to dull the pain while inflicting wounds on himself,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Wack could not find any injection marks on Phil's body
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: and did not believe there was enough lytocane in his
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: system to have caused much pain relief. Tracy confirmed that
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: on the night before he was killed, Phil was complaining
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: about itchiness since he had chaved his chest in order
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: to take a cardiac exam. Since Phil had recently self
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: prescribed e MLA cream to himself, doctor Wex's theory was
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: that he may have applied it to his chest in
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: order to combat the itchiness, as e MLA cream has
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: lydocane as one of its ingredients, and a small amount
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: of it could have slipped into Phil's bloodstream after his
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: chest was sliced open. However, the counter argument to this
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: theory is that the cream also contained an anesthetic called prilocane,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: but no trace of it was detected in Shoe's system.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Another troubling discrepancy Weckt found was that no fingerprints belonging
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: to Shoe or a third party could be found on
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: the duct tape on his wrists and boots, which seemed
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: to go against the idea that Shoe applied the tape himself.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Even if Shoe used gloves to avoid leaving fingerprints, none
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: could be found at the scene, and while a late
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: text glove was visible in the original crime photos, it
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: looked like it had never been used or worn. So
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: if Colonel Shoe was responsible for inflicting the injuries on
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: himself and staging his own suicide, he would have needed
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: to leave a cutting instrument, both of his nipples, the
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: distal joint from his left pinky finger, his wallet, his
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: dog tags, and possibly some gloves at a location where
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: they were never found, before driving several miles and intentionally
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: crashing his car.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: So bizarre, the fact that his wallet and his dog
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: tags are mistakes are really interesting to me, especially how
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: important dog tags are to a military member. It allows
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: you to be identified. It is a way to kind
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: of honor your service to the military. And the fact
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: that they were gone off his body while he's on
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: his way to work on a seemingly normal day is
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: really odd. Even if he was going to complete suicide,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: I feel like he would have his dog tags on
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: because Tracy needs to know it's him, And again, I mean,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: it's something that's also symbolically important. So I'm wondering what
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: he really take it off when his whole life had
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: been dedicated to the military.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it really doesn't make any sense for him to
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: take them off on his own. I mean, I suppose
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: if he's had some sort of mental breakdown and he's
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: just not thinking rationally, he would make a decision like that.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: But it almost seems like if this was a planned murder,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: that perhaps someone decided to take his dog tags as
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: some sort of memento or souvenir.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: It also doesn't seem rational to remove your own nipples
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: and fingers. That too, if we're looking through the lens
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: of somebody who's truly had a mental break then his
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: actions just might not make sense to us.
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: That's very true, very very true.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: One of doctor Demeyo's biggest arguments for Phil having staged
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: the scene is that he never attempted to use his
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: cell phone to call for help. But according to Tracy,
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: one of their neighbors retrieved the phone from the accident
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: scene after getting permission to take it from the authorities.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: The cell was a clamshell style flip phone model, and
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: the neighbors said when they opened it they noticed a
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: large amount of blood on the inside, though there was
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: very little blood on the outside. However, since the phone
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: was never taken into evidence and examined, this detail about
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: the blood could not be corroborated. The psychiatrist Phil had
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: been seeing, Lieutenant Colonel Douglas Dion, also believed that he'd
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: been responding well to treatment and did not appear to
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: be suicidal. There's also been some about the story that
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: Phil supposedly shared with him six months prior to his death,
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: where he described an associative episode about his car careening
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: out of control while traveling to work. Even though this
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: information was included in psychological autopsy report, Dion supposedly maintained
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: that he never shared this story with anyone from the
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: Air Force's Office of Special investigations, and there was no
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: documentation about it in any of Dion's notes. Tracy managed
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: to exert enough pressure on Kendall County's district Attorney Bruce
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Curry that he agreed to convene an investigative grand jury
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: to examine her husband's case, but they ultimately concluded that
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: there was no evidence of homicide and the initial suicide
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: ruling was correct. When Tracy testified at the grand jury proceedings,
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: she mentioned that she had not cremated Phil as originally planned,
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: and instead brought in doctor Wet to perform a second autopsy.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: This revelation caused Curry to become enraged to confront Tracy
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: in the stairwell, where he stated, quote, since you liked
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: to testify so much, perhaps I should accuse you of
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: the crime and have you end up in the defendant
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: seat end quote.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Wow, all right, well, District Attorney Bruce Curry's a jerk, yeap.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: That is incredibly horrific. You have a wife who's begging
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: you to look at her husband's death, and she's convinced
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: that it's a homicide. If nothing else, you have a
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: little compassion for a woman who's lost her spouse even
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: if you're deeply convicted that this is a suicide. And
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: when she threatens to have a expert come in on
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: the case to explore her husband's death, what skin off
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: your nose?
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: Is it right?
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: She's paying for it. She wants to have it done.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: You have someone who's grieving and in a state of
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: trauma and her husband either completed suicide and she has
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: to deal with that and or was hurt, and needless
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: to say, she knows the details of his bodily injuries.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: She knows that for her he left normal that day.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you simply have compassion for her and say, look,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: if you can get more evident, it's more power to you.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: It's almost bizarre when you look at the fact that
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: this psychiatrist says, I never told anyone about this supposed
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: disassociative episode where he's predicting his death in the same way.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: But it is in the military documents. Could someone within
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: the military have a reason why they want it to
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: look like this was a suicide. Is there a reason
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: why that could have been added in there to justify
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: the suicide ruling and not have it be opened into
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: a possible homicide.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what's so weird about it because in a
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: few moments we're going to talk about Phil's ex wife,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: who was also married to someone in the military, but
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: he was stationed in another state outside of Texas. So
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: if you believe that his ex wife was responsible, then
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: you could wonder if there was a military cover up,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: But why would Texas be covering up for someone who
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: was stationed in Florida. But then again, if the ex
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: wife wasn't involved and Phil was murdered by someone completely
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: different associated with the military, than perhaps they would have
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: reasons to fabricate all this evidence and hope that it
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: got ruled as a suicide. So right from the outset,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Tracy believed that the person who seemed like the most
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: likely suspect to have murdered her husband was his estranged
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: ex wife, Nancy Chu Timpson. By this point, Nancy had
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: gotten remarried to Lieutenant Colonel Donald Timpson, who was an
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: active duty pilot in the Air Force Special Forces Unit,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: and they were both living in Florida. While Phil was
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: with Nancy, she became the beneficiary on a pair of
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: life insurance policies totaling one million dollars, and as part
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: of their divorce settlement, Nancy retained the right to hold
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: on to these policies even though they were no longer married.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Over the years, Phil frequently asked Nancy to cancel the policies,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: but she refused, claiming she could not afford to the
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Suspicion about Nancy began in May of nineteen ninety nine,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: nearly four years before Phil's death, when he received an anonymous,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: typewritten letter which read quote, please read this letter. You
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: may be in danger. I'm writing because I remember you
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: as such a kind and caring doctor, and I can't
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: just sit by and not help you by telling you
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: what I know. End quote. The writer then went on
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: to say that a friend of theirs worked with Nancy's husband, Donald,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: and had heard them say they wished Phil was dead
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: so they could collect his life insurance. The friend apparently
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: thought that the couple may have been planning something, so
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: the writer said they felt the need to type up
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: a letter and send it to Phil in order to
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: warn him. It's been reported that Phil received a second cryptic,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: anonymous note at a later time, which read quote the
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: plan is now delayed, but not canceled. Be careful. I
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: can't identify myself because they may find out and stop
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: letting information slip end quote. Phil's response to these letters
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: was to write to Nancy and confront her, and he
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: once again demanded that she dropped the life insurance policy
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: she had on him, stating, quote, I feel helpless to
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: prevent my eventual murder if you hire good assassins and quote.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Nancy wrote Phil back and denied their conversation with Donald
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: about wishing him dead ever took place, and she expressed
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: her belief that someone was playing a sick joke on
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: him and refused to cancel the policies. When Phil tried
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: to lobby the two insurance companies holding the policies US
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Double A and Northwest Mutual to cancel them on his behalf,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: they refused. The companies told Phil they were not authorized
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: to cancel the policies since Nancy owned them and kept
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: paying the premiums. He responded by sending them a letter
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: which read quote thoroughly examined my death for evidence of
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: foul play, even if on the surface the cause would
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: appear natural or accidental end quote.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Well, no wonder the guys getting help for anxiety and
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: depression if he really did receive these two notes. That's horrifying.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: And you do have someone saying, hey, there is a
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: plan in motion to kill you. I would have quite
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: a bit of anxiety depression in paranoia as well, and
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: think God fills out there getting help. It's really interesting
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: when he does reach out to her, he's pretty desperate,
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: demanding that she dropped these life insurance policies, and he
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: even mentions eventually, if you hire good assassins, right, how
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: would I avoid getting murdered? Really sad and the way
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: that everything's kind of dissolving in regards to his feeling
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: of safety because of his ex wife. But once you
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: receive a written letter, knowing that he's on to you,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: and knowing that there's been this conversation with life insurance
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: policies and things like that, don't you think you need
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: to kind of do it about face and leave the
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: plan because he's on to you. Right, He's already called
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: you out for planning his murder in writing. Wouldn't you
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: stop at that point and be like, oh gosh, we
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: got to do something different.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: Think about who you deal with, ash.
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, right, that's true.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I deal with some dark people in my own life.
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: That you got a battle.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: But that's true, and when they're pretty determined to cause
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: a problem, they stick with a plan.
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: That's very true.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: But it's worth noting that Phil received the original letter
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine and started confronting Nancy about it,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: and did not actually wind up dead until four years later,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: So it could be a case where they really were
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: planning it back then but then realized, oh, Phil's on
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: to us, we'd better cool down for a while, but
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: then decided to do it again after enough time it passed.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: How long were these policies in effect for did they
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: have an expiration Robin?
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think they were on him
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: until he died. I mean they divorced. I think it
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: was a nineteen ninety two and they stayed on him
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: for over ten years, so I don't think there was
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: an expiration date.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Interesting that her husband was in the Special Forces too.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like not just the Air Force, but Special Forces.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: According to Tracy, Phil's paranoia about Nancy is what caused
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: him to start showing symptoms of depression and anxiety and
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: seek psychiatric treatment. Well, Tracy thought the anonymous letter was
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: a piece of evidence which supported the idea that her
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: husband was the victim of foul play. Investigators suspected that
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Phil had actually typed up the letter himself and fabricated
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: the entire threat from his ex wife. They found it
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: odd that Phil never made any attempt to bring the
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: letter to the police, but Tracy maintained that because Phil
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: held a top secret security clearance, he had to follow
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: a specific chain of command and notify his own superiors
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: about what was happening before he involved any outside agencies.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: Tracy claimed that Phil did show the letter to his superiors,
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: but they seemed to dismiss the idea that it represented
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: a real threat against him. No conclusive evidence was ever
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: found to prove that Phil was the author of the letter,
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: and unfortunately, it was never tested for DNA or fingerprints.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: When questioned, Nancy claimed that both she and Donald had alibis,
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: which proved they were at work in Florida on the
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: date that Phil was killed. Nancy also turned down the
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: police's request to take a polygraph, and since Donald held
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: a top secret security clearance, he would not have been
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: allowed to take a police polygraph even if he wanted.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: At one point, Nazi's lawyers stated that he believed Phil's
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: death was a result of attempting to fake an abduction
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: in order to make it look like his ex wife
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: had harmed him.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I do believe that Phil would have had to go
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: through his own chain of command. That's a really important
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: thing in the military. They get really upset when you
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: jump over a person in your chain of command. Right,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: you take an issue to your supervising officer, and then
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: they handle it. If they can't handle it, they go
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: above them.
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: So they help escalate the issue.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: So here, I don't think it's crazy if Phil said, Hey,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go to my commanding officer and show him.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: That this is what I received.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Right, But then when you look at this idea that
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: he would have written up the letters himself, I don't know,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: that's pretty crazy. Yes, there's a lot of trauma dealing
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: with a volatile ex wife, and I can see where
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: he might feel desperate, like I need to do something
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: to get away from her and maybe get her to
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: drop these life insurance policies.
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: But overall, it just doesn't seem.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Like someone who's so I don't know, so stable in
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: his career and continuing his education all these things that
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: he's going to keep slipping in these major ways, that's
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: pretty elaborate to go after your ex wife by faking
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: death threats to yourself.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: And let's also remember I'm reiterating again, the letters originally
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: appeared in nineteen ninety nine, and Phil didn't die until
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: two thousand and three. So is he really like typing
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: up all these letters and faking this for over four
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: years before he decided to end his own life well.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Two months after the accidents, Tracy filed a civil lawsuit
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: in hopes of preventing Nancy from collecting on Phil's one
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: million dollar life insurance policies. Nancy was named as a
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: defendant in addition to the two insurance companies US Double
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: A and Northwest Mutual, as Tracy believed they had a
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: legal obligation to cancel the policies after being informed the
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: threat to Phil's life. Phil and Nancy's son, Jeffreyschue, was
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: named as a third party defendant in the lawsuit, as
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Phil had removed Jeffrey as the secondary beneficiary from his
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: will only five days before his death and replaced him
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: with Tracy's sister. According to Tracy, Phil was concerned about
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey's ability to manage money, as he had gone through
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: a bankruptcy the previous year, which was partially brought on
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: by gambling debts. Jeffrey was also in the midst of
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: his second marriage, which Phil did not believe have much stability,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: and he feared that any inheritance his son received could
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: be squandered in a divorce settlement. When Nancy was given
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: a videotaped deposition as part of the lawsuit and asked
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: about her re ex husband's death, she pleaded the Fifth
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Amendment on over twenty questions in order to avoid self incrimination.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: It was never established if Jeffrey found out he had
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: been removed from his father's will prior to his death,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: as he filed an affid David invoking his Fifth Amendent
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: privilege and declined to speak with law enforcements and military investigators.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: In June of two thousand and eight, Tracy civil lawsuit
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: was ready to go to trial in Kendall County Court
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: of Law, but by this point Nancy, Jeffrey, and Northwestern
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Mutual have been dropped as defendants as one million dollar
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: settlement agreement have been made between them. US double A
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: was the only remaining defendant and they were still facing
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: potential liability issues for refusing to cancel their life insurance
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: policy on phil. Halfway through the trial, Judge Bill Palmer
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: suddenly dismissed the jury after announcing that the two parties
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: had reached an agreement and he could make a ruling
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: about the case on his own. In the end, Judge
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Palmer ruled that US double A had done nothing wrong
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: by refusing to cancel Colonel Shoe's insurance policy and were
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: not liable for damages. But he also surprised everyone by stating, quote,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: the evidence considered by the court substantiates of finding that
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Colonel Philip Schue was murdered. The Court therefore finds that
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: the April sixteenth, two thousand and three death of Colonel
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Philip Schue was a hobbs hide end quote My goodness.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, So here's what's really interesting. Tracy and Phil changed
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: life insurance policies to have the beneficiary be her sister
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: in the event that Tracy also is deceased and not
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: his son. I can see where Jeffrey being removed is
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: not wild, because he's showing these signs of just being
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: not stable really in this midst of trauma and turmoil himself,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: and I can see where Dad would take him out.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: But you know, I don't blame Nancy and her husband
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: for not wanting to take a polygraph or for really
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: pleading the fifth either. She doesn't have anything to gain
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: or to lose in this whole element because she didn't
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: do anything wrong on paper, she paid a premium, the
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: man who is the deceased is dead, and now she
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: gets to collect the life insurance policy. It's pretty darn
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: simple happens. I did what I was supposed to do
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: by paying it, he died, I get the money. Anything
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: she says does not work in her favor. She doesn't
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: supposedly know anything about it. So on the surface, as
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: dysfunctional as their divorce was and continued relationship was, what
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: does she gain by saying anything in that deposition. Worst
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: thing that happens is they have to prove that she
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: likely killed her husband before they take her money away.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Otherwise she's sitting pretty just keeping her mouth shut.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: It just looks so sketchy that she's pleading the fifth
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: on this, and then when you add her son is
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: also pleading the fifth. I know that you have a
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: right in the American court not to incriminate yourself but
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: what would you be incriminated on? And I get your point,
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: ash for sure that like opening your mouth, you know,
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: you could open a door to any number of things,
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: and a good attorney can cut into your words that
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: you're saying and pick them apart and maybe weed out
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: some deception in there or weed out some things that
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: don't look good. So it's better to just say nothing
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: at all. But it just it always looks sketchy when
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: people do it.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: And obviously one of the most infamous examples was Mark
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Furman and the OJH. Simpson trial, where he planed the
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: fifth on every question, even the question did you plan
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: any evidence or plant the bloody glove against OJ Simpson?
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: And because he didn't answer, a lot of the jury
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: members thought that the whole evidence planting thing was true.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: Don't they pretty much like if they're going to plead
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: the fifth at all, don't they pretty much do and
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: across the board plead the fifth?
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think normally a defense attorney or
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: an attorney would.
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: Tell you.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Need to just plead the fifth and if you're gonna
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: do that, you do it for everything so that it
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: doesn't look suspicious when that one question you plead the
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: fifth on but you've been open and transparent about everything else,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: because then it does have that indication of guild. If
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: you simply say basically, I'm not engaging, which is what
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: Nancy did here. If you're just not going to engage,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: then you just weren't interested in engaging, right, And again
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: you're keeping your mouth shut so that nothing.
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: Could be used against you.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: So I think it's pretty consistent you either start that
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: way and say I'm not going to answer anything, or
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: if you're going to invoke that on one.
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: Question, it would look quite bizarre.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: Well, Judge Palmer requested that Shoe's death certificate officially be
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: changed from suicide to homicide. Kendall County officials refused to
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: do so, and they did not believe that Palmer had
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: the authority to make that determination. Months later, the Texas
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: Attorney General ruled that Shoe's death certificate would not have
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: to be changed, so his cause of death is still
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: officially listed as a suicide to this day. In March
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: two thousand and nine, the story would receive national exposure
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: when the TV show forty eight Hours aired an episode
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: titled The Curious Case of Colonel Shoe. Shortly Thereafter, Tracy
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: was contacted by a witness who'd watched the show and
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: thought they might have an important piece of new information.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: On the morning Colonel's shoe was killed. This witness said
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: that they'd been driving on a rural road leading to
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: Interstate ten, which Phil normally would have taken on his
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: route to work. They remembered seeing Phil's mercury tracer off
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: the side of the road, and a blue van with
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: tinted windows was parked directly behind it. What was particularly
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: interesting about this location is that the ground had a
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: natural deposit of calichet, a sedimentary rock which produces a
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: white clay substance. According to the autopsy report, at the
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: time Phil was found, the bottom of his boots were
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: caked with mud and a white powdery substance, but investigators
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: never bothered to analyze it. The forty eight Hours episode
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: contained interviews with Lieutenant Roger Anderson of the Kendall County
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: Shriff's Office, who'd been the top ranking official at the
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: crash scene that morning and became an advocate for Tracy Schue.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: He openly acknowledged that the investigation was mishandled and that
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: he lost control of the scene as there was a
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: jurisdictional beef between all different law enforcement agencies who showed
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: up there, including the Kendall County Shriff's Office, Warrene Police Department,
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: and the Texas State Police. Since Colonel Shoe's death was
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: not believed to be a homicide, his vehicle was never
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: possessed as a potential murder scene, an important evidence may
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: have either been lost or never collected. Tracy has claimed
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: that even though Kendall County authorities have asked her to
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: pick up her husband's wrecked car from the impound yard
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: on several occasions, she always refused to do so because
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: she believes the vehicle is a crime scene. After Tracy
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: changed her mind about having him cremated, Phil was finally
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: buried at Arlington National Cemetery with full military honors, But
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: in a tragic PostScript to this story, his son Jeffrey,
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: unexpectedly passed away in October twenty fifteen at the age
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: of forty five following a brief illness. While Colonel Shoe's
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: death has never officially been reclassified as a homicide, his
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: loved ones are still searching for answers and the official
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: circumstances of what happened remained unclear, So.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: I guess you could say the path went chili.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: This is one of those cases where you see exactly
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: what we harp on. When you don't investigate properly, you
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: get one shot and one shot only. And so when
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: they arrived on that scene and they declared this is
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: a suicide, and then they're basically telling his wife come
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: get the car. We don't need to do any further
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: exploration of this crime scene or this scene. You can
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: come get all of his things. They blew it, even
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: if it really was.
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: Ultimately a suicide. We always talk about how you approach.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: The scene as a homicide, especially when you look at
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: this case.
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: No one would have showed up on that scene and.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Said this is a usual, typical, expected type of suicide.
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: You would say, what the heck happened here? It's bizarre.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: You have missing nipples, a missing digit of a finger,
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: his wallet and dog tags are gone, he's driving away
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: from his place of work, he never know he has
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: a gash in his chest, all these things that seem
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: so just like a movie. Why would you ever approach
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: as anything? But we need to have a very very
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: thorough investigation here and assume it's a homicide, photograph everything,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: test everything, and at the end, if it really does
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: appear to be a suicide, it's a suicide. But it's
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: like they called it, and they pushed everything out aside,
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: and they lost that chance to investigate. And I think
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: that's why Tracy was so upset. She got a call
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: that her husband had completed suicide and that he was dead,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: and then she gets information later of all these bizarre
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: things that occurred, and she said, had I known that,
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: I would have questioned the suicide even more from the start,
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: Why didn't anybody else? And so I really feel for
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: her where she's just refusing to let go of this
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: idea of someone look deeper into this because it's so bizarre.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Why didn't anybody else when they arrived on the scene
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: have that same attitude.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: I think it's so tenant telling that Lieutenant Roger Roger Anderson,
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: Uh yeah, yeah, as it Yeah, the Lieutenant Roger Anderson,
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: who was the highest ranking official on the scene, believes
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: that it was mishandled and has been an advocate for Tracy.
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: I think that is really really telling. And the fact
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: that they were just so quick to assume that this
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: was a suicide and not investigate it as a murder
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: and then let the evidence lead where it may is
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: kind of shocking.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: And you think that at the very least they would say, Hey,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: his wallet and dog tags and his nipples are missing
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: and there's no cutting tool, Let's perform a search of
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: the area of like the wooded areas, just to see
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: if we can find them, and if we do, we
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: can conclusively prove if this was a homicide or a suicide.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: But the fact that they didn't even bother to do
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: that is pretty frustrating. So, like I mentioned in the intro,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: we've covered a lot of cases in which a victim's
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: death was ruled to be a suicide, but their loved
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: ones were adamant that foul play had taken place. But
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: the circumstances of this one are a bit more complex.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: Regardless of what actually happened to Colonel Phillips Shoe, the
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: one indisputable fact about this case is that his exact
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: cause of death was a car crash. While the authorities
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: believed that Shoe inflicted a bunch of wounds on himself
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: before intentionally crashing his vehicle as part of an elaborate suicide.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: His loved ones believed that he was in the midst
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: of being tortured by a third party and managed to
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: escape and flee the scene, but wound up getting into
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: a fatal accident before he could get help. Even if
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: conclusive evidence was found to prove that someone held Colonel
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Shoe captive and tortured him that morning, could they be
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: charged with murder? I mean, I'm sure they would be
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: charged with something, But Shoe's death technically took place while
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: he was behind the wheel of his own car, and
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: while he was obviously at a diminished capacity because of
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: his ordeal. I'm sure this would be a pretty complicated
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: legal situation if a suspect was ever brought to trial.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: But while Tracy Chue and everyone who cared about Phil
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: want justice for his death, I'm sure one of their
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: most important priorities is to clear his name and debunk
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: the official cover story that he killed himself. This was
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: a particular, regularly horrible tragedy for Phil's parents, Bruce and Miriamshau,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: who both lived until their late nineties and had to
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: endure the loss of all four of their sons. In
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: addition to losing Phil, they lost an infant son named Stephen,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: back in nineteen forty six, their oldest son, Norman when
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: he passed away in nineteen ninety nine at the age
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: of sixty four, and their last surviving son, Roger, who
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: died of a sudden illness in twenty ten at the
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: age of fifty nine. And if that wasn't enough, Phil's
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: son Jeffrey, would also unexpectedly pass away due to illness
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: at age forty five. And virtually every case like this,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: the victim's loved ones will insist that they were not
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: suicidal and had everything to live for. But like we've
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: mentioned countless times on this podcast, sometimes people will suddenly
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: take their own lives without any warning whatsoever and completely
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: surprise everyone. I know that Phil and Tracy had made
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: a number of plans for the future, and he was
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: only six months away from retiring from the military and
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: starting a new chapter of his life, But since he
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: had spent the past few years seeking treatment for depression
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: and anxiety, I think it's a stretch to say that
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: suicide was an absolutely impossible option.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: I would have to agree with you. I think it's
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: a possible option for everyone. Right when you think about
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: mental health and how there are quick onset mental health breakdowns,
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: and there are mental health diseases that affect a lot
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: of people, and sometimes they're just unpredictable. You don't know
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: what's going to happen inside your brain. So I think
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: suicide is something that when you say it could never
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: happen to us, she would have never done that. I
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: don't think that that's ever a statement that can be
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent true, because again, it's not the rational
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: person that you know thinking in that moment.
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: You know, earlier, I was.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Trying to explain things away and Jules is like, remember,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: probably irrational in that moment, I thought, oh, yeah, that's true.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: It's not the person you know that's taking their own life.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: It's someone who's been hiding something or had an onset
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: of something pretty sudden that has them not in their
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: right mind. So yeah, is it possible for sure? Is
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: it easy to believe given the lifestyle he has and
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: where he's at in his life. No, he's retiring from
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: the military. He's gonna have the best package and financial situation.
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: He's got a.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: New career he's pursuing in forensic psychiatry at the University
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: of Alabama. They're moving to a home they've already put
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: a down payment on. He's with his second wife, who's
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: his dream girl, and he's you know, getting away from
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: a scenario where he's fussing with his ex wife, right,
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: he's just at least getting to move and have a
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: fresh start somewhere.
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: So I just I don't know.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: It's not likely. Is it possible? One thousand percent? It's
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: possible for anybody.
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: I think.
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: I'm just struggling with the motivation, Like, what would be
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: if you wanted to end his own life? I completely
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: understand that, But what would be the motivation to basically
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: fake a murder? Are you trying to screw Nancy over
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: so badly that you're going to frame her for murder
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: when she didn't kill you. It just seems bizarre. And
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: if he was irrational at the time, he might be
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: making really irrational decisions. But if he did indeed do
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: this to himself, he was rational enough to think, I
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: will inject myself with Leta Kane before I do these
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: grievous injuries to myself like cutting off nipples and finger
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: and gashing oneself across the chest. And maybe there was
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: those hesitation marks. If that's indeed what it was if
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: he did do this. I'm just really really struggling with why.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: I guess you'll turn. An example is that some people
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: try to make their suicide look like a homicide because
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: they don't want anyone else to know they completed suicide.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: They don't want to go out on those terms, so
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: they want to make it look like they were killed
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: and that they didn't make a conscious choice to take
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: their own life.
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: Now, there are doctor umented cases in which victims have
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: killed themselves and gone to great lengths to ensure their
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: deaths do not look like suicide. Those slicing open your
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: chest and cutting off both your nipples and a joint
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: from your pinky finger before deliberately crashing your car does
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: seem like a pretty horrific way to end your own life.
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: The reason that vehicular suicides are so risky is that
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: you could end up paralyzed or a vegetable, which would
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: be a fate worse than death for a suicidal person.
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: One of the big issues with how Colonel Schue died
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: is that he didn't crash head on into a tree,
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: but instead drove off the road and clipped one tree
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: before he spun into his second tree with such force
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: that he was killed by the impact. I don't think
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: anyone could predict with absolute certainty that a crash like
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: that would end their life. But then again, if Shue
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: was in a very dark place and suffered a complete
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: psychological breakdown, he may not have been in the most
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: rational state of mind that morning. And all that being said,
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: even though there are a number of details about Sho's
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: death which point to the involvement of a outside party,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: it's really hard to come up with a scenario involving
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: abduction and torture that makes much sense. We've read the
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: psychological autopsy report that was produced by the Air Force
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: Office of Special Investigations, and while there are definitely issues
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: with some of their conclusions, they do make some valid
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: points which seem to blow holes in the foul play theory.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: She left his home and his Mercury tracer that morning
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: in order to make the thirty mile commute to work,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: and theoretically there should have been no reason for him
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: to stop anywhere and put himself in a position to
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: be abducted. You also have to take into account that
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: she took a break from his ordinary routine by leaving
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: an hour earlier than usual in order to catch up
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: on some paperwork at his office. So unless someone was
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: watching him when he left, how could they have known
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: that she would be out there driving on the road
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: at that particular time. The biggest issue with figuring out
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: what happened is that we've got zero evidence if shees
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: whereabouts during the two and a half hour window between
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: when he left his residence at five forty five A
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: and his car was seen driving erratically down Interstate ten
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: between eight and eight fifteen am. All we really have
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: is an eyewitness who came forward six years after the
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: fat and recalled seeing the mercury tracer off the side
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: of the road with the blue van parked directly behind it.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: This sighting took place on a road Shoe ordinarily would
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: have used to drive onto the interstate during his commute
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: to work, so I could see someone intercepting and abducting him.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: But if so, where did they take him to be tortured?
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: Since the duct tape on Shoe's wrist was torn, this
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: suggests that he might have been tied to a chair
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: at some point before he broke free. But where was
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: this location if she was abductor or abductors forced him
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: into the van against his will and traveled elsewhere did
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: someone else drive the tracer there? Remember Shoe died while
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: driving the tracer, so if he managed to escape, he
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: had to wind up back in his own car at
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: some point. No matter which side of the fence you're on,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: there are a lot of unexplained gaps about how she
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: got from point eight to point B.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: So shue Is had to have either driven his tracer
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: towards work or met somebody somewhere, because he is eventually
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: found in his own vehicle. But like you just said,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: if he was abducted or he's being tortured somewhere, it
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: looks like someone else had to intervene and find him.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: So where was that location? The idea that he would
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: have the duct tape is what is really bizarre to me.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: The injuries. Could you self inflict injuries, yes, but they're dramatic.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: They're cutting his chest, they're cutting off the nipples, they're
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: cutting off a digit of his finger. All that's incredibly bizarre.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: But what would motivates you to actually do exactly what
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: you said? Fake that you were almost tied to a
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: chair somewhere and had to break free, which would make
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: sense if he had been abducted, that that really occurred.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: So it's all very confusing. You have that maybe someone
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: pulled up behind him at some point, which could be
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: that second party, but we know nobody was in the car.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: When he crashed.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: I think that he likely was fleeing from something or
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: somebody and was in a state of shock and panic
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: and losing blood. And that's why you never see tail lights,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: That's why you never see skid marks. He's actually just
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: losing consciousness and coming off the road. He seems so
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: normal that morning. Could he have completed suicide? Sure, anything's possible.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: Be one of the most bizarre suicides in history, probably,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: but the other being abducted, being tortured, breaking free from
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: some cherry or taped to seems very plausible when you
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: look at this evidence. I don't think he would have
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: pulled over to get help. I think he would have
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: been in a state of shock, and then when that's
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: wearing off is when he would crash the car.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely does seem to me that him being
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: abducted and towards it makes a lot more sense than
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: him staging elaborate suicide. But like I said, The big
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: issue is that I cannot figure out how things got
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: to that point. I mean, we mentioned that his cell
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: phone was found and there was no record of him
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: having made any calls that morning, so it doesn't sound
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: like he made any plans to meet anyone. So it
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: could have been just a thing where someone pulled out
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: in front of him and got him to pull over
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: somehow and that's when he was abducted. But it still
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: makes you wonder like where, if he was being tortured,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: where exactly did this occur. Where was there a chair
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: to duct tape into? And what happened to these people
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: after Shoe tried to flee the scene, And he.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: Did have to drive on some rural roads in order
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: to get to work on the interstate, correct that is true?
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, Like he didn't immediately go to the interstate, so
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: I could see someone intercepting him and abducting him in
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: a rural area without any witnesses around.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: And I'm assuming that Tracy never heard anything that he
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: was going to meet up with somebody, or that he
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: had a meeting before work or anything like that.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, he did say that he was leading earlier
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: than usual, about an hour earlier. Because he had some
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: extra paperwork to do. So theoretically that could have been
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: a lie that maybe he had a secret meet up
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: with someone and that's why he was leaving early. But
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: if so, they never found any phone records or any
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: emails or anything to prove that theory.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: I wish they could analyze that cell phone. When you
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: look at the idea that there was a lot of
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: blood inside the phone but not on top, it's really
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: really interesting, and they didn't. They just like the rest
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: of the evidence, they said, oh, it's a suicide, no
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: need to investigate further.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: And there were.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: Things there that might have given more information to police.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: So now this would be a good time to bring
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: an into Part one. Join us next week as we
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: present part two of our series about the unexplained death
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: of Colonel Philip Shoe.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like
• 1:05:43
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• 1:05:46
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• 1:05:49
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• 1:05:52
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• 1:05:59
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• 1:06:02
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• 1:06:26
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• 1:06:29
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• 1:06:32
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• 1:06:43
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  Speaker 3: Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy