Latest / Virtuous Leaders with Dr. Johann D'Souza / Ep.107 - Patrick Reilly on Why Most Catholic Schools Have Lost Their Mission | Cardinal Newman Society | Faithful Catholic Education

Transcript

Ep.107 - Patrick Reilly on Why Most Catholic Schools Have Lost Their Mission | Cardinal Newman Society | Faithful Catholic Education · Virtuous Leaders with Dr. Johann D'Souza

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I think there are are plenty of people out there who very
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deliberately are targeting Catholic education in order to
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compromise, knowing that if you can corrupt or destroy the
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institutions that are forming Catholic youth, especially the
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most devoted, beautiful Catholic youth, then they're game's over.
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This is Virtuous Leaders, the podcast for based Catholics who
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will speak truth, do good or die trying.
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Here's the show. Patrick Riley, you're the CEO,
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founder, president of the Cardinal Newman Society.
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What is the Cardinal Newman Society and what inspired you to
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found it? Thank you and thanks for having
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me on the show. The, The mission of the Cardinal
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Newman Society is to promote and defend faithful Catholic
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education. Pretty broad statement, but
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basically we begin with the conviction that there is a
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crisis of Catholic education in the United States.
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Not only are are we losing students in schools, we've lost
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2/3 of, of students in Catholic parochial schools in the last 60
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years, but we've, we've lost much of the mission in most
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schools. And so we're trying to restore
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that and and promote good faithful Catholic education.
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And then the defending is protecting Catholic education
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from the false ideologies and the other pressures that are
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always on Catholic educators today to compromise their faith
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and to let let the culture in with this is very difficult
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today. I think you had had more of the
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question. What inspired you to found this?
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Yeah. So I started the organization
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Really the, the, the work began while I was in college.
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I was at a large Jesuit university.
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I was editor of the student newspaper.
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There was scandal after scandal. We found out that there were
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abortion referrals being made to to women.
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They, they started two different student groups, one on abortion,
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one on gay and lesbian issues that were clearly contrary to
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Catholic teaching and a number of things happening.
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So I got very involved with that.
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And then in 1993, two years after I graduated, we started
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the organization. I started it with a number of
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other like minded young graduates of Catholic education.
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And for, for various reasons, they've all gone off and, and
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got real jobs. And I've stayed with the
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Cardinal Newman Society and it's been a it's been a delight of my
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life to be serving Catholic families in this way.
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So tell, tell us a little bit more about that service.
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I wonder if we could just get some highlights of what what are
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some schools? It's so is this this a
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university guide primarily? So the Cardinal Neiman Society
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started as a focus purely on higher education.
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So it was all about colleges and trying to reform colleges.
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In 2009 we took over the Catholic education honor roll,
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which was something but the Acton Institute have started
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recognizing Catholic High schools and from there we've
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basically broadened our mission to cover all of Catholic
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education. So we recognize in the Newman
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Guide, we have currently 97 institutions that are schools,
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colleges or graduate programs and we're working on rapidly
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expanding that. We just opened up the Newman
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Guide last year to recognizing schools and graduate programs.
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So we think there are probably about anywhere from 150 to 200
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schools, elementary and secondary schools that really
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belong in the Newman Guide and we're reaching out to them and
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working through the process. It's a pretty rigorous
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application process. So in the next couple of years,
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we're hoping that they're all in there and and we'll have close
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to probably 300 institutions in the guide.
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I'm sorry, did you say elementary schools?
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Yep, yeah, elementary, secondary graduate programs and we're also
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working on on just refining the standards as they apply to
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homeschool programs. So we will also be recognizing
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homeschool programs. We're also looking at how we can
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apply our Newman Guide standards to their number of online
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programs or non degree programs that are out there that are
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legitimately classified as Catholic education.
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Things. You know, like some of the
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programs of the Augustine Institute, which of course
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itself is a graduate program as well.
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But there are organizations out there doing great work in
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Catholic education that aren't formally degree programs.
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And so our our mission is to ensure that Catholic families
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have access to good faithful Catholic education, which means
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a lifelong formation from womb to tomb.
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And so we want to make sure that we are highlighting and
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recognizing and leading people toward those places that that do
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an excellent job of remaining faithful to Catholic teaching
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and are not willing to compromise on the faith.
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Have you found that some of these institutions change their
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orientation for the better as a result of not being reviewed as
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favorably as they'd like? Sure.
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Oh, absolutely, yes. And in fact, you know, a number
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of the institutions that will publicly argue against us, we
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see a lot of movement, like, see, say, even among a number of
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the Jesuit universities that have really fallen by the
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wayside. They are increasingly talking
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about Catholic identity and trying to appeal to traditional
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faithful Catholics because, frankly, from a purely marketing
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standpoint, it's important to them to survive and to retain
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that market niche. I'm not suggesting that's the
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only reason, but it is a driver when they're looking at their
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enrollment numbers and they're struggling to get Catholic
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families to come to their institutions because they don't
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serve what Catholic and families are looking for.
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Where would a school like Notre Dame fall on this list?
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Yeah. So Notre Dame is is today a
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troubled institution. I would say it's a it's a big
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university. And so in any large university
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you'll have a real mix of people.
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And I have to say that there are some programs at Notre Dame, but
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they're just absolutely outstanding and deserve a lot of
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credit and, and attention. But overall, the the standards
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of of campus life and personal formation in Notre Dame are
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lacking. The administration in particular
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and the board of trustees are not committed to the kind of
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faithful Catholic education that we're advocating.
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And they're too willing to compromise in support of, you
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know, sort of woke ideological issues.
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And so we, we can't recommend them, especially for
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undergraduate programs. But some of the graduate
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programs are, you know, you have to navigate your way through it.
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And so our goal with the Newman Guide is to hold up institutions
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that are models of good faithful capitation.
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Unfortunately, you know, there are a number of institutions
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that are working toward it. There are institutions that
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actually have some great leaders who have openly said their goal
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is to be in the new and guide, but it takes time, it takes
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work. And so we're more than happy to
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work with them and and help them toward that goal.
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What are those institutions? So, you know, I can, I mean, in
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terms of colleges, there's like Holy Cross in Indiana has been,
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you know, moving in a in a very healthy direction.
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Saint Francis in Indiana also, you know, we've seen a lot of
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good things there. Saint Vincent in Pennsylvania,
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Mount Saint Mary's in Maryland used to be in the guide fell off
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because of some problems there. And we're still hopeful that
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that maybe with new leadership they can move in the right
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direction. So there are a number of
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institutions out there that are, you know, well intended
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Assumption University in Massachusetts, you know, really
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trying to do the right thing and move in the right direction.
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But it does take time and effort.
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And the difficulty is once you've opened the door, once
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you've allowed compromise. And I, you know, I think, I
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think a perfect analogy is the individual person and the
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individual soul, right? There's you can be overall
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intentional about trying to be a good Christian, but when you
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start to compromise, even on some of the little things, it
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starts to bring you down and it has a, a weight that's very
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difficult to resist. And, and people get the idea
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that certain things are OK. And so then they start to push
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the envelope and you, you just end up with this cascading
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effect that always moves toward less Catholic identity.
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That always seems to be the inertia when you, when you
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compromise on these things. And so these institutions that
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still have mixed faculties or, or you know, individuals within
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the administration who maybe are pushing against it, it's tough
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to prevent them from dragging everything down, even when maybe
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the top leaders have the the best intentions.
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And what would be some of the universities that stand out as
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as being pretty clearly high on the list?
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Well, so we don't we don't make real distinctions once they meet
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the Newman guide level. We actually, we do have a, some
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like a star system where we recognize things for particular
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things we really like to see, but they're all different.
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And you know, I've got, I have 5 kids and they have attended
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different Newman Guide institutions.
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And you know, they, they like to be a little competitive with
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each other because you know, the one, the one son would never
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have gone to this other institution.
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It would have been the right fit for him.
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And so we like to say, you know, if it's Newman Guide, it's worth
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taking a good look at, but they are, they are different.
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And not everyone is, is going to be good for a particular
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student. So, you know, there are places
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like Christendom College, Thomas Moore, New Hampshire, Thomas
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Aquinas College, Wyoming Catholic College.
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I mean, these are places that are, are good, solid liberal
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arts institutions. They're small.
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They they don't offer a lot of majors.
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Some of them don't offer any majors.
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And so for students who are looking for that, you know, may
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it might not be the right fit, but you know, I'm a fan of a
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good solid liberal arts education and the impact that it
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has. All of the other institutions do
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provide a good liberal arts basis.
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So then you have places like University of Mary Walsh
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University, you know that Catholic University of America
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are very focused on the major, what direction you're going in
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terms of career, but they don't put career ahead of the
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formation of the student. That's what's really important
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is that career is important. And for students who are
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especially going into some kind of professional degree or
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technical area, you know, they do need those foundational
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courses, but it can't be to the exclusion of the formation in
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any of places like Ave. Maria University, Franciscan
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University of America, places that maybe kind of fall in the
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middle. You know, the students are, you
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know, certainly thinking about career and everything, but
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they're, they're even heavier on the formation and the, the
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liberal arts aspects and in really focusing in on, on that
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academics growth. And so they're, they're all just
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different institutions and different places.
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And I just the greatest part of my job is being able to visit
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these places and, and see the students and experience all of
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these colleges. And I if I could do it over
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again, I would. I would get my degree at every
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one of them because it would be a different experience, a
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different growth, and it would be enjoyable in every case.
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That's why I like University of Dallas because he combines the
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the core as well as the. Yes.
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And apologize, apologies to any that I didn't mention because
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there's we have 27 colleges now that we recognize.
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And so it's hard to list them all off, but they're all just
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outstanding institutions. I love University of Dallas.
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Yeah. Thanks.
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Thanks for saying that. Sure, we got that on tape.
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So Peter Kilpatrick, president of CUAI had him on this podcast
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a little while ago, very impressive.
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And you wrote recently, you wrote a great blog highlighting
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his witness for well, why don't you?
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You want to explain what you what you wrote your blog about?
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Yeah, you know, Catholic you has.
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It's just been so exciting. You know, when I, when I started
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the Cardinal Neiman Society, I had moved to Washington, DC
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That's where I met the other students or graduates who helped
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me start the Cardinal Newman Society.
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And Catholic University at that time was, was, you know, kind of
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where Notre Dame is right now. There was a lot of dissents
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within the, the theology and religious studies programs.
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There were a number of problems with faculty.
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There were problems with student life, campus ministry and other
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things going on. And the the road that they've
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taken is just wonderful to see where they're at today.
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Over the course of now, Peter Kilpatrick is sort of the third
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president in a row who was just move things forward.
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And he is just perfect for the university at this time.
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And he's so he's bringing a wealth of academic experience
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and knowledge being physicist and a very accomplished
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physicist having come up through the ranks at Notre Dame and
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other institutions. And he just has a great
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understanding of just the workings of a major university,
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which is very difficult, and how to delegate and how to ensure
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that your Deans and your faculty are are, you know, toeing the
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line and, and supporting the mission of the institution.
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And every change that he has made since he came in seems
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wonderful and moving things in the right direction.
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And so, yeah, we're just really happy that he's there because
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this is the Bishops University. It's it's, you know, obviously
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an embarrassment to the Church if that is not one of the top
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institutions, not just in all the secular aspects, but in
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terms of its Catholic identity and its formation for students.
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Yeah, and you fired a psychology professor that was that was
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impressive. Yeah.
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And that took, you know, people, it's easy for people to say that
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that's what should happen, right?
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That that this psychology professor clearly did something
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wrong, right. The professor brought in an an
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abortion doula, a person who helps basically to hold people's
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hands through abortions and tell them it's all right.
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And this was somebody who was clearly not consistent with with
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the Catholic mission of the institution and brought them
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into the classroom to teach students.
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So it's just no excuse for it. And a lot of good, honest
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Catholics would say, I'm not, I'm a little afraid of academic
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freedom. Is it really, you know, don't we
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have to allow the professor to do whatever they want in their
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classroom? And, and Doctor Kirkpatrick
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said, no, no way. This is a Catholic institution.
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You have obligations to the mission of the institution if
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you're going to teach here, and you simply don't belong here if
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you're not going to follow that. It's not, it's not thought
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control, but it's it's saying this is who we are.
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So go do whatever you want to do somewhere else.
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But it just simply is not suited to a Catholic.
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I made quote what he said here. In our rigorous pursuit of truth
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and justice, we engage at times with arguments or ideologies
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contrary to recent or to the gospel.
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But we do so fully confident in the clarity given by the
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combined lights of reason and faith.
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And we commit to never advocate for sin or to give moral
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equivalence to error. So that's very proud of him,
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very happy. Yeah, it's beautiful.
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And I love that whole, you know, Pope John Paul the 2nd, St.
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John Paul the Second, you know, try to bring attention back to
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the unity of faith and reason. And certainly Pope Benedict's
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carried that forward in a remarkable way.
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And you know, I often say, you know, a lot of people will say,
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well, how, how can a university be Catholic?
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Because you know, how to faith and reason truly come together.
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And, and I would argue that Catholic education not only
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provides the faith aspect, which clearly is excluded from, from
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nearly every other institution, even many that, that are
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identified as Catholic, but in addition to that, the, the
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emphasis on reason and, and I would argue that reason itself
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has gone out the window in most of higher education.
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And so we're relying on Catholic education not just to renew
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faith and an emphasis on the importance of faith in every
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discipline that you study, but also the importance of reason
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and a renewal renewed attention to forming the mind and trusting
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and reason to lead you in toward truth and toward God.
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And, and that's the ultimate purpose of it.
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And this is just something that's been lost through most,
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even most Catholic education. There's not an understanding of
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that. So we have to recover it.
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That's a really good point. So you were a program analyst
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for the Department of Education, Speaking of losing reason, and
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at the same time you advocate for getting rid of the
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Department of Education. Why is that?
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Yeah, well, so we're, we're not a public policy organization,
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but we do support certain positions that we think would,
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you know, would be healthy to Catholic education.
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And the Department of Education has certainly been a force for
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bad in education and in our in our culture, the if we have a
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proper understanding of education, all goes back to the
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parent. The parent is, is primarily and
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fundamentally responsible for the education of young people.
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And I would argue that a lot of our problems today result in
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some ways from the success of the parochial schools going up
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through the the 40s into the 50s, sixties.
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And I guess it was late 60s, early 70s when we were at the
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peak of of Catholic education. And that I think LED a lot of
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Catholic families and a lot of Catholic leaders, priests,
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bishops, just to develop this assumption that somehow it was
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the church's responsibility to raise the children, that that
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the parents responsibility for education was somehow just, you
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know, handed off and that they were not capable of educating.
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And I think that that's a real problem.
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I think in some ways the way to the schools were were managed
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and handled did not do a good job of, of forming parents to to
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continue with their sense of, you know, hate.
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Look, this is this is my responsibility.
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The analogy I often use is with health, with medicine.
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Every parent would readily say, yeah, my child's health, my
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child's well-being is my primary, primary responsibility.
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And if my child has health problems, unless it's so severe
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that, you know, I simply can't manage it within the home, I am
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not simply turning my child over to a doctor.
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I am going to a doctor for their expertise, their understanding
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of the issues, and I'm going to them for help.
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But I am going to be with my child.
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I'm going to be sitting in that doctor's office.
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I'm going to be, you know, next to their side in the hospital.
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I'm going to always be with them because ultimately I am
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responsible for my child's health.
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We don't take anywhere near the same attitude with education.
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I think if, if parents recover that, that sense of, of
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responsibility for ensuring development of the child,
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whether or not doing it in the home with homeschooling or
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you're putting them in a school where you've got experts who are
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going to provide certain assistance to all of that.
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The parents still need to be responsible.
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And if we have that attitude, then certainly we're not willing
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to turn over education, turn over the entire concept of what
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happens to to my son or daughter.
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You a very distant bureaucrat in Washington, right?
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It's too far away from who was primarily responsible.
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Ultimately, that's the problem with the Department of
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Education. It's just too far.
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So even state level, you know, they have to be very careful
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about OK, fine, set general standards, but but let the
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educators at the level of the students handle things in
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cooperation with the parents. Yeah, absolutely.
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Do you think we have hope for a Catholic education with the new
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administration? Yeah, I think, I think there are
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a lot of things that the new administration is going to do to
23:38
to assist Catholic education, certainly in the emphasis on
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school choice and then just the whole effort to get the
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government off our backs. And in the last, you know, more
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than a decade, Catholic education, Catholic educators
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have had to deal with 1st the Obama administration, then the
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Biden administration, who you know, outside of this is not
24:03
about party, but they have had an agenda that they were willing
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to push so far as to force Catholic educators into
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complying with the gender ideology, with the, you know,
24:18
the views of, of gay and lesbian shoes with DEI, with even mask
24:25
mandates. It doesn't whatever it is, it's
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not about the, you know, there's, there's the issue of
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the wisdom of, of what should be done.
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That's one point. But then just this idea that the
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federal government can come into religious education and tell
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schools that are focused primarily on leaving young
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people to God that they must compromise their beliefs.
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They must do things in a way that that is not consistent with
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their their values is just completely unconscionable and
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violates what we've always called the the first freedom of
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Americans, right as our religious freedom.
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And so we have, you know, as I mentioned, the Cardinal Luma
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Society was never a public policy organization.
25:14
And yet, for the last more than a decade, we have had to spend a
25:19
lot of time working on legal issues and public policy issues.
25:25
Our primary focus is on helping Catholic schools, colleges,
25:30
graduate program protect themselves by having very strong
25:35
and explicitly Catholic policies that allow them to avail
25:38
themselves of religious freedom exemptions and religious freedom
25:44
protections under the 1st Amendment.
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But we've also worked to try to help inform them of what these
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developments are, what all these threats are, that just every
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week there seem to be another one coming down on Catholic
25:58
education. And, and fortunately, yeah, it's
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going to be nice for me this next four years of not having to
26:05
worry about a new threat, at least from the federal
26:09
government coming every week. We still have a lot of states
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that unfortunately want to pursue the same agenda.
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Yeah, you kind of wonder to what extent their instruments of
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Satan. Oh, I think, yeah, I think
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there's no question, you know, whether it's whether it's by the
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deception of Satan, you know, people who were just honestly
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deceived by these things, or ultimately, you know, I think
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there are are plenty of people out there who very deliberately
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are targeting Catholic education in order to compromise, knowing
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that if you can incorrupt or destroy the institutions that
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are forming Catholic youth, especially the most devoted,
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faithful Catholic youth, then, you know, your game's over.
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In terms of our culture, it's it's already questionable where
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we're going in the next 50 years.
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But I have great hope for the Newman Guide institutions in the
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impact that they're already having in raising up, you know,
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young people who truly can reason, they can think clearly,
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they're full of virtue, they're wise, they seek to know the way
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God thinks about things and not simply their own opinion.
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And they're just fully devoted to Christ.
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And and that sort of graduate can have an enormous impact,
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even if they're one in a million in the United States.
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Beautiful. And think of a better note to
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end on. Thank you, Patrick Riley.
27:47
Thank you. All right, well, God bless you
27:49
and you're apostle with appreciate it.
27:52
Thank you. Thanks for listening.
27:55
Please like, subscribe and share with your friends.
27:57
See you next time.