Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / Ep.264 'Collaboration Over Competition: The Unbound Project 9 Months On'

Transcript

Ep.264 'Collaboration Over Competition: The Unbound Project 9 Months On' · The STA Clinician Podcast

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You're listening to the Sports Therapy Association podcast, putting evidence
0:05
back into soft tissue therapy.
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Of the Sports Therapy Association podcast. My name is Matt Phillips,
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creator of RunchUpLive.com.
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And as always, this episode is being recorded live on the Sports Therapy Association
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YouTube channel and Facebook on a Tuesday night at eight o'clock.
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So in this episode entitled Collaboration Over Competition, The Unbound Project,
0:41
nine months on, I will very shortly be joined by Andrew McCauley.
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Well, not Andrew McCauley, because he sadly can't be here. But I will be joined
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by Andy Hosgood and Andy Thomas.
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These three gentlemen are the founders of the Unbound Project,
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which is a community for healthcare practitioners and business owners to collaborate rather than compete.
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So basically to get together and to share problems and solutions in a non-judgmental safe place.
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They were last on the podcast nine months ago in episode 225,
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Collaboration Over Competition.
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So tonight they're going to
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discuss how the project is going and what they have learned along the way.
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Before I bring those guys up, then I must thank my guests from last week in episode 263,
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Rehab Guru, the all-in-one platform for clinic management and exercise prescription,
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in which I was joined by Rehab Guru founders David Barrow and Simon Taylor,
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who revealed new features and integrations, including bookings,
1:37
invoicing, treatment notes, scan.com, expanded customer support.
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It was a massive episode. And for those of you using Rehab Guru who are aware
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of it, there were so many great updates.
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And it was a really nice chat with the two guys. And they discussed in particular
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new AI tools for transcribing notes, auto generating and progressing exercise
1:54
programs, and a whole lot more, including a new partnership,
1:58
which they've got with the Better Clinician Project, Ben Cormack and Adam Meekins,
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which means that Rehab Guru exercise prescription software licenses now come
2:07
with free membership of the Better Clinician Project and vice versa,
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which is pretty incredible, really.
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But yeah, so it's definitely worth listening to and checking that out.
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And like the STA, Rehab Guru will be at Therapy Expo this coming 26th and 27th
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of November at the NEC Birmingham.
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So if you are coming this year, be sure to visit Rehab Guru at Stand TB31 and
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also the STA Stand at TE7, which is basically where we have been for the last
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five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 years or something. So we'll be on the back
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wall there next to the ST school.
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So yeah, do come and say hello there. And if you are coming along to Therapy
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Expo, then like I've announced a couple of times now, if you're interested in
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improving communication skills as a clinician, then come and join me for my
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practical presentation,
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Mindful Strides, Communication Skills for Working with Runners,
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and anyone else for that matter, which is happening on day one at 3.50 p.m.
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In Theatre B, right before the wonderful Michelle Lyons. So we'd love to see you there if possible.
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Right then, enough of that. Let's crack on with tonight's episode,
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264, Collaboration Over Competition, The Unbound Project, nine months on,
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with founders Andy Hosgood and Andy Huston.
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How are you both Andy Hosgood first of all so we get to know your dulcet tones
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and then we'll come in with Andy Thomas how are you Andy Hosgood,
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very good again privileged to be
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invited back privileged honestly people will
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know your name hopefully from the recent STA and
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hands-on hub conference which we did in Exmouth
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which you just shone at I mean I don't want to build your ego up even higher
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than it is but it was just brilliant the feedback for you was exceptional it
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was everything we wanted to do it was great they felt that your presentation
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at the end of the close was a little bit short could have been longer but apparently
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that was because the guy before you just went on a little bit well the The guy before me,
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we just had so much good content he wanted to share that we felt it was the
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only right to allow him that opportunity,
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correct? That's really nice. That's collaboration. There's a perfect example there.
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If the person before you's got more to say, then great. Just collaborate.
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So thank you for that. But presumably, that was you, Matt. It was me,
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yeah. Presumably, that was you, yeah. Yeah, it was. It took her up.
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Yeah, yeah, it was me. But I had bought an Amazon timer since just to stop that from happening again.
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But anyway, yeah, no, it was brilliant. It was exactly. And it really coincided with
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the kind of thing which you guys are doing in terms of just creating
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a situation where it's not just everybody fawn over
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the guru speaker at the front it's kind of turning that camera around
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and going okay guys what do you want to know i've got
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loads of stuff to tell you but what's the point unless it's something you need
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and you're desiring and motivated to learn it so it was
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really cool and then andy thomas how are you thank you
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very much for joining us i'm great thanks and i
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think that point that you mentioned there is about all of
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these things i'm so sick of the the bit where
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you've got someone pitching to someone else and I've
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never felt like that and everything that I do and I
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want thus PhysEquip doing and any projects that I'm involved in
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it's just always conversations and and just
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just discussions with it really and that's what I'm buzzing at the moment is
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to the work that I'm doing because all I'm doing is having conversations as
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you say Matt I'm traveling around the UK a lot I'm doing that we're just trying
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to understand what's going on in the industry so no I love it I feel really
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lucky to be a part of it and it's great to come on this tonight as well.
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It is. I mean, both of you, this, yeah, this is where social media is actually
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a positive thing because following both of you just shows the passion you've
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both got for the industry and communicating with others and the stuff both of
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you post is just amazing.
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So I do recommend, we'll give these out at the end as well, but as we're talking
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about it now, I would encourage people to follow on Instagram,
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maybe if you're into that.
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So Andy underscore PhysEquip, which is P-H-Y-S-I-Q-U-I-P-E, the company PhysEquip.
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Is that pronunciation okay?
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PhysEquip? it's perfect it was right
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or not it was perfect to the ages of therapy expert
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to master that i just walked past there without saying anything so i was embarrassed
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about not being able to say it but there we go andy underscore physical quick
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and then if you want to follow andy hosgood then that you can unlock underscore
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with underscore coaching yeah really inspirational stuff putting social media
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to a good use rather than just the a lot of the rubbish we see out there so
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we are here today, nine months since you were last on the show.
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In episode, what was it going back then? It was 200 and, well,
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it was nine months ago, 220 something.
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And I think that was when you were more or less launching it,
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wasn't it? It was back in April or something.
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And you were kind of, you'd just done the score app or you're putting the scorecard
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out there and getting feedback.
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But for people who aren't aware of the Unbound project, maybe you could kind
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of give us a summary of why yeah why it came up in the first place why did you
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get together both of you with Andrew McCauley and decide that this was something industry needed.
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My explanation for
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my bit so i'm part of a peer-to-peer group
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so on thursday for example i'll go and get together with other business
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leaders it's not industry specific but i've been a part of that for the last
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just over three years and it's had such a transformative thing for me in developing
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my confidence also just learning practical things hanging out with other people
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that are finding it you know it's lonely when you're running a company it's
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even though you've got a great team, loads of support.
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It's really, it's hard. And having that place that I go to get out of my day-to-day
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environment is massively important.
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I'm really excited to go to that on Thursday because I just know I can switch
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off everything else. And I do switch off my phone, everything.
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And I'm purely present in that day.
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And it's just, it's been really great for me. And whether it's a coincidence or not,
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the company, Physica, is doing really well in that
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time period i feel freer more confident
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so when andy andy and i have been chatting about
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doing things for absolutely years and when
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we start to work on what what is this going
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to be like even the last time we were on it wasn't even the unbound project
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at that point so we're constantly working on
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on building something that we really know is going to
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be beneficial for people and that's not necessarily because
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of what we do but it's more about the the spacing space that we're creating
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and the people that we want to join it and I come across loads of everyone I
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meet is inspirational with the meetings that I'm having in my day-to-day and
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it's now right well how do we share that information and allow other people
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to benefit from it and push forward together.
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That's great. And it does come across, like I say, people should follow you
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because you can see the sort of conversations you're having with people all over the country.
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Yeah, we can see how awesome it is for you and for the people you're meeting. So it's great to see.
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Andy Hosgood, similar reasons or something a bit different for you?
8:56
No i think and i
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think we all come at it from a different experience which
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is the whole collaboration piece isn't it i think you
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know and like andy said me and him have been you know
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we've always been really open to chat and we've
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always shared stuff in safe spaces and one of the things you know i think we
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if we're really transparent when we first sat down and was like what is it we're
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trying to create the the clarity of that so you know probably wasn't for me
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as clear as it is now what we were very clear on what we didn't want it to be,
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and I think sometimes that is that can
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be just as good for creating clarity as we knew it didn't want to be a place
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where you just it was roulette we didn't want it to be a place where it was
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just a load of information and we didn't really care how it landed you know
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what you know one of the things we were all quite clear on, like Andy was saying,
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is how do we create a community? How do we create environment?
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How do we create space for people that they feel that they can turn up.
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You know, share what's going on in the world and they could feel safe to open
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up about something that they might sound that they should know,
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you know, and how can we create a space where people feel they can drop in or
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feel like they can be helpful to others?
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And I think that's the ultimate thing, isn't it?
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To me, what's been great about what we've done so far,
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if i can kind of move to that you know nine months ago we had an app we had a concept,
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we launched the scorecard app basically as a proof of concept to say you know
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we have an assumption so if we think about you know research we've got a hypothesis of what we believe,
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is needed within healthcare we then
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created a survey which is the score app to kind of prove that
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and i think what shop does an awful lot
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from the data and i think you've got
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the link that you're going to share later for people want to take part in it
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i think what was really interesting to us was that an awful lot of people were
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not completely satisfied where they were in their career which is what we'd
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have been hearing and andy like you've already said spends a lot of time up and down the country,
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having real conversations one-to-one, which I think is incredibly powerful and
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has been really insightful because I think that's information that not many people have.
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And then what the Score Apps has allowed us to do is compare that.
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So what we found is not everyone is massively happy where they are.
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A lot of them know where they would like to be. not always do they know the
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barriers how to overcome the barriers to get there but one of the really interesting
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things for me is this almost element of avoidance of taking action towards that,
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And I think one of the things for me that we've been exploring is,
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you know, why is there an element where people don't always take the action to move forward?
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I think what we've learned from the conversation so far is that,
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especially my experience in what I do in my other day job of the 8 million jobs
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that I feel like I do on a weekly basis.
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Is that I think by creating a safe space for you to explore your ideas,
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to say things out loud for other peers to turn around and say
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have you thought about this thought about this thought about this almost allows
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you to go one it keeps you accountable to making decisions to
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go right i've said that out loud so i need to do something about it and actually
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now i've said it out loud it feels real and
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feels achievable so people then take action does
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that make sense i think over that period of
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time what we've actually we've learned a
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lot we've we've collected quite a lot of data we've
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nearly got 200 people that have taken part in there in the score app so what's
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great with that is what it's been helping us is to really shape closer and closer
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towards the clarity of long term what this is and i think last comment is one
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of the things that we ultimately,
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want to create is this community of safe spaces where people can feel listened to heard,
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non you know low judgment you know is there ever any non-judgment i don't know
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but you know certainly lower judgment places where you know people can feel
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that they can have those honest and open conversations.
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That's great. Yeah. And I will get that link shortly for the scorecard.
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It's great. I mean, I listened to you say there's been 200 responses,
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which in this day and age is actually really impressive that people have found
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the time or made the time to actually fill it out, considering how simple it is to do.
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But it's really inside infuriates me a little bit that it isn't like 2000.
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But I think that's part of the problem, isn't it? That's part of the life we
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live in maybe where people don't change because either one,
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they just don't know what they should be clicking or
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doing to help themselves or two yeah they
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just have their head buried in the sand doing what they keep doing and wondering why
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it doesn't work so this is basically going to
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we get a couple of thousand downloads a month so if people are listening to
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the podcast then do yourself a favor please what's the movie help me help you
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because you can handle the truth so i'm going to bring up now the scorecard
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this is if you go to i'll put this link in the show But if you go to unbound,
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so U-N-B-O-U-N-D dot score app,
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S-C-O-R-E-A-P-P dot com,
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then you'll be presented with a scorecard which you can fill out and it will
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ask you questions about your business and how you feel and like Andy's kind of described. And.
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The way it's worded will kind of hopefully allow you to be honest because it
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is like, it's like a coaching interview of some form where it is helping you kind of help yourself.
14:56
So yeah, do that because the figures for burnout, I know in,
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in sports therapy and massage therapy, loads of people are leaving.
15:04
I hear loads of comments and you get emails. If I can't do this anymore,
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it's too hard work. I think in physiotherapy as well, there's so many people
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leaving the profession.
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We haven't got enough people and probably in healthcare in general,
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You know, it's just not enough people because people are getting burnt out.
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So I guess that's part of the reason for this as well, is it?
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To try and reduce the burnout in clinicians because something's being done wrong,
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isn't it? For so many people to give up.
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I think just to go back to the point that you said before is like,
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why haven't more people filled in?
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Like some of my closest friends who are in this industry haven't filled in and
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I'm telling them to do it.
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And it's sometimes you're, I see there's so many people, me included,
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everyone's busy and I hate the expression, I'm busy, I'm doing this stuff.
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But until something happens and then it's like, right, I can find time.
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You can actually find time for anything.
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But you just don't prioritize a lot of this stuff because it's like,
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oh yeah, well, I can do that, right?
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I'm just going to book another appointment in this case, so I'm going to go
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and do that course or whatever it is.
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But that's why for me it was transformative when I stopped and thought,
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no, actually, I'm spending a significant amount of money on the class that I'm in.
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And you just make it happen. And I'm enforcing that for my team as well internally
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within PhysiQuip because I think it's so important to have that reflective practice.
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And Andy's been Andy Hosgood's been
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one of the key drivers for me I'm actually just about to put another
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post out of Andy talking about how it's so
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important to reflect yeah this is actually we recorded
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this about three or four years ago and he was saying how
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important it is once a month set some time aside to reflect
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on what you've done on because we often
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don't remember all the good stuff that we've done with things as well it's
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not all about oh look at all the challenges all the
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hard stuff I've done it's like actually so important to reflect on
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all the great stuff that you've done as well and so that's
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that's what I'm I come at it from that angle is like
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look there's so much great stuff that is out there whether
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it's collaboration or you're doing it on your own and it
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just that is so important and bringing that to the group
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where you can share some of these things is really really powerful so Andy had
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that big impact on me and probably I didn't even think of it until now actually
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me joining the group that I'm in now because we talked about those things and
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that reflective piece is massive so whether it's filling in a questionnaire that takes 10 minutes,
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whether it's coming to one of our webinars for an hour or whether it's joining
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our community that's, you know,
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at some point going to get together once a month, just start doing it because it's massive.
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That's so, I wanted to leave you talking there, but I just wanted to reiterate that point you make.
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I think it's so significant that people often think this reflection is about
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owing up and taking ownership of all the things that have gone wrong and the
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things you're doing wrong.
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And maybe that's what people kind of, why people resist it.
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And don't get involved but what you said is so important reflection allows
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you to focus on the things you've done good as well and
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get some affirmations and strengthen you know your resolve and
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make you realize you're doing good stuff so yeah i
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think that's what yeah listeners hopefully that that will ring a bell with you
18:04
and make you realize that it is about celebrating the wins as well and that's
18:08
really important the thing with that is matt it's almost against human nature
18:12
to do that isn't it so i think one of the things and that's i think what andy's saying there is that.
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You know part of if we use the an msk thing you know as healthcare professionals
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partly one of the things we will see is people overloading themselves and one
18:33
of the things we have to sometimes encourage them to do is recover more and rest more,
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And I think healthcare professionals need to follow some of their own advice.
18:44
They give, you know, one of the things that we often used to do with an athlete
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is, okay, okay, so if you're going to be pushing that hard way,
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you're going to recover.
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And when are you going to take time to work out what's working and what's not?
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And the same concept is us as humans, healthcare professionals,
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business owners, whatever.
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You know, first of all, do we see the importance of stopping and understanding where we are?
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You know and what what have we
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learned so far actually that we can learn
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to take better because reflecting is part of learning and
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if we just look at the learning cycle it's part
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of that isn't it it's actually learning what what's worked what's not
19:24
worked what can I take for this what do I need to change to move forward so
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actually if you're never really developing and growing and learning if
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you're not taking time to reflect on your learning so for
19:34
me it's a strength to actually put time in your life to
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stop reflect and do that you know personally for
19:40
me i use my dog walk as my reflecting
19:43
so i would call multitask you know it's a time of going how do i process stuff
19:48
that's gone well or things have gone less well and how do i make them different
19:53
you know that part of a daily routine which i appreciate is easier said than
19:57
done for a lot of people in busy lives like i said But actually leaning into that,
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you know, and that's why we believe creating these spaces where people,
20:07
and sometimes it's not even about contributing, is it?
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Sometimes it can be sitting in the background, listening to others,
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can be inspirational to self.
20:17
You know, listening to others can help inspire self.
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Listening to others sometimes goes, actually, I think like that.
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Okay, so therefore I'm normal.
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Or even all of these things can be helpful and.
20:32
And also I think one, I'm this point that, you know, a conversation certainly
20:38
that we've been having is I think a lot of the time people believe they're the
20:42
only people feeling the way they feel.
20:44
So actually listening to a group of people that go, well, I feel like that and
20:48
I feel like that and I feel like that.
20:50
Okay. So actually what I'm feeling is normal, you know, can actually be quite
20:54
a nice place to sit as well.
20:57
Not, you know, not everyone wants to be normal, but sometimes it's quite nice
21:00
to be normal as well, isn't it?
21:02
Yeah, that's great points. But it is tricky, isn't it?
21:06
Because you're trying to help people to reflect by filling out a reflective
21:10
questionnaire, but because that's a problem in healthcare, we don't pause and reflect.
21:15
We're kind of like operators fixing people. We don't stop and think,
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oh, how much was that because of me?
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Or why did that not work? We just presume that everyone we touch is good.
21:23
And if they don't get better, it's because they didn't do what we told them
21:25
to do. So it's just something which is so alien to us.
21:27
But I guess it's ironic, isn't it?
21:30
You're trying to get people to fill out this questionnaire or join these safe
21:33
places to have wonderful conversations but to do that they need to have find
21:38
that intrinsic motivation to cross that step anyway but i think the safe spaces
21:43
are a really good start so if you like if it's all right with you we'll move
21:47
on to that because you are providing these kind of more or less monthly,
21:52
taster sessions for people to like
21:55
you say just come along and sit in the background if they want to we do
21:58
kind of say because i've been along to them and i
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get in this scenario you do have to
22:04
switch your cam on and it made me think about that you know should you
22:07
let people in and not put the cam on but it's kind of the least you can do because
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you're not there just for yourself it's a group thing isn't it and and even
22:13
if you don't want to contribute whoever's speaking needs to know who's behind
22:17
that camera so i think it's right so i think i commend you guys for saying and
22:21
politely saying please put your cams on but yeah people can come along and just sit there and listen,
22:26
and like you say, just...
22:29
Internally realized what other
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people are saying is the same problems as you've got and you are normal.
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And then maybe come along next time and maybe share a problem and have the,
22:37
you know, the wonderful opportunity for you guys, coaches, to talk them through
22:41
it and just kind of walk with them and have them go through their problems and share them.
22:45
So, yeah, I thought as Andrew's not here with us tonight, bless him.
22:49
Daddy duties, I believe, there is a nice video which we'll play of Andrew,
22:54
which I was advertising a taster session.
22:57
Before we say that, there is another taster session coming up if
23:00
you're listening to the podcast then you can't see the screen obviously but
23:03
if you go to unbound hyphen
23:06
project.com and these will go in the show notes then you'll see a button book
23:12
now and that will take you actually to the event page where you will see a link
23:16
for the free taster session the next one which is on december the if i remember
23:21
rightly yeah december the 8th, Monday,
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the December the 8th at seven o'clock.
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And it's free. Okay, people, I know that's shocking to hear in this day and age, but it's free.
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And it's a chance for you to go along for the hour if you want.
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You don't have to stay for the whole hour, but go along and see what it's all about.
23:36
And I appreciate that will probably be quite a difficult step for some of you,
23:39
but it is because it's going back to attending something live.
23:42
But try and do it. That's all I can say. If you're a therapist, business owner,
23:46
or thinking of setting up a business, if you're feeling burnt out just go
23:49
along and see what maybe you're missing out on and honestly in a lot of cases
23:53
it literally does don't use this phrase kind of like jokingly it can change
23:58
your life massively and the lives of everyone around you if you just start moving
24:02
into this kind of safe place to talk about stuff so yeah let's listen to Andrew
24:06
talk about that I'll put him on now.
24:09
Hi, I'm Andrew McCauley from The Unbound Project and we are doing something
24:12
different for healthcare professionals.
24:14
It's not a lecture or a webinar, it's an open honest conversation.
24:18
So if you've got a problem right now, maybe setting up your private practice,
24:22
stepping into a leadership role or just feeling a bit stuck in your career,
24:25
bring that problem along to our meeting next Monday.
24:28
Now if you feel safe to, you can share that problem with others.
24:31
Be coached live or sit in the background and ask questions and be curious.
24:35
But one thing we will ask is psychological safety. We don't want people to feel
24:39
judged. We just want support and curiosity.
24:42
So if this is something that interests you, please come and join us next Monday
24:46
at seven o'clock and leave with relief, clarity, and some energy back in your tank.
24:52
It's a good video. We were talking about that slightly off air, but he does it so well.
24:56
And anybody who knows Andrew would probably say that didn't come easy for him
25:00
because he doesn't like being at the end of the camera, does he?
25:02
But does that sum up nicely? I think it does. But how do you guys,
25:05
you watch it, does it sum up nicely what those taster sessions kind of offer?
25:09
Yeah. I mean, I think if I, so I, before, again, before we'd done this,
25:15
Andrew said, I'm going on a coaching course and I need some volunteers to, to, to, to participate.
25:20
So he did it with me and actually did it
25:22
with my now wife as well and it
25:26
was massively helpful for me personally even
25:29
though i know him really well we did three sessions and same
25:32
with gabby and really really good and yeah
25:35
i think exactly what he's saying there really he's andrew is
25:39
very strong personality physio sport
25:42
scientist but he's also really interested in
25:45
helping people and driven and that that comes through with
25:48
everything that he's doing uh it just
25:51
really it just completely resonates with me the way
25:54
that he delivers his sessions and he you know he's been running the
25:57
session so far but also then we do have a
25:59
lot of contribution so andy's brilliant in terms of his
26:02
organization is coaching and we
26:05
all do bring different bits to it but fundamentally
26:09
i just think and the way andrew's approach to coaching is is
26:12
really like it's been that has been transformative for me that was all about
26:16
my physical fitness and so on it was similar for Gabby so yeah he's been very
26:22
helpful for me personally and that's why I like being a part of the group not
26:25
just because I'm a co-founder but because I'm learning from it all the time as well.
26:31
I think that the thing that, and to add some context to this,
26:36
me and Andrew spent an awful long time discussing what does psychological safety mean.
26:44
In the coaching space, the facilitation space, it's thrown about a lot.
26:49
You know, you only need to look on LinkedIn and it's, you know,
26:54
this is, so we spend a lot of time because.
26:58
You know, my experience of healthcare, has been
27:01
is full of judgment you know it was very interesting
27:04
having some really open conversations at the
27:07
event that you said that we were at in xmith
27:11
how you know a lot of soft tissue therapists felt really judged by others you
27:17
know judgment exists so actually this skill of trying to create an environment
27:22
where we reduce the level of judgment or create an environment where people feel they can speak out,
27:30
I think is a tremendous skill.
27:33
You know, let's big him up while he's not here.
27:36
You know, generally, I think that is that alone setting the scene of creating
27:42
an environment, the opening part where people feel, you know,
27:47
it comes across like he's done it really natural.
27:49
But I can tell you that the amount of time, effort, and energy he puts into
27:52
delivering that the way he delivers it, you know, I think comes across as the
27:56
passion for what he's trying to do to create that environment.
27:59
And that's the level of detail that we're actually trying to go into to create this project.
28:05
You know, it's, you know, how are we, how are we constantly trying to improve
28:08
our environment so we can make more and more people feel safe to have those
28:12
conversations, that more and more people feel comfortable,
28:16
brave enough, confident, whatever it is to, to, to turn up a firstly,
28:22
to put the camera on, to maybe just get involved in the chat and eventually
28:27
actually feel comfortable enough to share the problem.
28:30
You know and i think that is because you know if you've been coached and sometimes
28:37
you got you get asked a question that might make you feel a little bit uncomfortable
28:41
and actually it's done because and i spent the day talking about this actually
28:47
some of the real answers happen in our unconscious,
28:50
rather than our conscious awareness so the
28:53
actual skill of getting some of the best work out of
28:55
ourselves is to being a bit uncomfortable asking
28:59
a question that allows you to move into your thought process
29:02
and your unconscious and helping that
29:05
bring it into your conscious so actually now you're aware of it
29:08
what can you do with that information so yeah
29:11
there's an awful lot of what goes behind what
29:14
feels like a one hour kind of conversation there's a
29:17
lot of you know especially from our perspective a lot of time effort and energy
29:20
and conversations and 8 000 whatsapp messages a day just making sure we're fine-tuning
29:27
everything you know and that's you know from the evidence we're creating from
29:31
our scorecard after the conversations we're having on and off.
29:35
Line everything is coming back to make sure we correct the environment that's the best.
29:40
Yeah that's really good it's useful that people realize the effort that does
29:43
go into providing a safe non-judgmental place it's easy to say that but if people
29:47
can appreciate the amount of work and study and research that goes into it then
29:51
hopefully they can feel a little bit kind of more,
29:54
secure in the in coming along and and realizing it but and also every time people do come along and and.
30:02
Because a lot of people do come back week after week then suddenly
30:05
you're not just moving into a space with you three for example you've
30:08
got suddenly three or four other really great individuals who are
30:10
going to be providing that safe non-judgmental space
30:14
and and coming up with advice if you want it
30:16
or reflecting or asking questions it could be
30:19
the exact question like you say you needed to be asked to kind of unravel
30:22
the new layer so it is kind of a little bit like a
30:25
snowball effect isn't it where you grow as a community and
30:27
that's the idea i guess isn't it to get this community growing so suddenly
30:31
you've got a whole room full of like-minded individuals who
30:33
are not going to judge you who will share problems and solutions
30:37
yeah i mean if i could go big bold and beautiful i think what i would like and
30:41
a bit like what andy was saying you know and he's part of a you know a very
30:46
successful peer-to-peer group already but still even listening to the conversations
30:52
that go on he can take something from it you know one of the things for me,
30:56
I guess my ultimate goal is the ripple effects of this.
30:59
You know, if you're in an organization and you feel,
31:05
that you're not, like Andrew was talking about, that you're just not satisfied
31:09
where you are, and especially the data we're collecting, there's a lot of people saying that.
31:13
You come to an event like this, realize there's a different way to set a scene,
31:18
a different way to communicate with people, a different way to ask questions.
31:23
And you then start adopting that framework and you take that back into the organization
31:27
you're doing, the bigger ripple effect for healthcare is actually we're going
31:31
to start to lower the judgment.
31:33
So you know for me it's great
31:36
that we're having this and i'm really excited for
31:39
next year and when we we eventually start
31:42
doing face-to-face and we can really spend days together
31:46
and really get really under the layers that
31:49
we that we can do when we are face-to-face and
31:52
we spend more time together but actually then
31:55
the ripple effect of what that does across healthcare i think could
31:58
be potentially really really powerful i think.
32:01
As well i'd just like to point out it makes you feel
32:05
better as well like as somebody who goes to
32:08
groups like this once you overcome your
32:11
own initial fears and then you are able to be
32:14
part of that safe place and welcome other people to come in
32:16
when you see them relaxing their shoulders and suddenly
32:19
coming out with stuff i think naturally as humans it makes
32:22
us feel good about ourselves to be part of that provision of
32:25
a safe place it's just such a nice thing to offer another human being
32:28
so it's not only just for you it's helping others as
32:31
well which i think is a really beautiful thing sorry and you're
32:34
going to say something i butted in there no no i
32:37
think i was going to say just just following on so one of the topics that
32:40
came up in the last one was about people feeling guilty and
32:43
as they progress in their business and they're developing and
32:46
it came up so i did a life stories with len funk the
32:49
shoulder surgeon on monday which is going out tomorrow and he said exactly the
32:54
same thing he's like as he's coming to the end of his career or he's moved into
32:58
a little bit of it is you can have that guilt as to all right i should be doing
33:02
this so even someone that is professor you know orthopedic surgeon really well known.
33:10
He's having the same thing as what someone like who's just starting out in the career is having.
33:15
And so I definitely learn from everything. And it's not just from people like
33:20
Len, it's from people that come the younger people that you're interacting with as well.
33:24
Because I was saying it to Gabby actually on a, we went out for coffee this
33:27
morning and you think by the time you get to 30, you're going to know everything.
33:31
By the time you get to 40 and beyond.
33:34
And the reality is like, you definitely don't and you never solve anything.
33:38
So it's all, it's something that you this is this for
33:41
me this is completely long term this is going to be a long-term project that
33:45
we're working on it's not yes it's going to be a commercial venture but it's
33:48
not about that we really want to have an impact and so using words like transformative
33:53
and all those things you know they are just words but i truly believe from my
33:58
experience in the market.
34:00
We will help with it. And I'm so confident. And we're already seeing things,
34:05
even though we're not directly doing the face-to-face things because of the
34:09
conversations I'm having out in the field.
34:11
I love it. It's just, it's really nice to be able to share some of these things.
34:15
And obviously not the confidential things, but just the general feeling of what's
34:20
out there and that people are feeling the same way. It does make you feel good.
34:25
And that's really what we want. When I go back to why I do what I do,
34:29
I want people to love working for the organizations I'm involved with,
34:33
but also with us. And that's the same with anything, really.
34:37
It's too short a life to not be enjoying what you're doing. And I really think this can help with that.
34:43
Yeah, great points. And I think just with that,
34:47
and I think what Andy made a really nice point is that, you know,
34:52
there's an assumption, isn't it, that when you become at a level,
34:55
So if you're, or you become more successful, that you've worked out everything out in life.
35:01
And actually one of the interesting things is, you know, sometimes you,
35:05
you, you look at people because of their title or their status.
35:10
We make the assumption they've got all their ducks in a row.
35:13
And I think actually when we have honest conversations, it comes out that they
35:19
haven't got the ducks in a row either, you know, or they're battling exactly
35:24
the same things as the perch.
35:26
So, you know, the great thing, I think, with human interaction and human connection,
35:31
which is ultimately what we're trying to create, is we are all humans, aren't we?
35:37
So that surge in Andy, and he's done a great job. He's operated on me twice.
35:42
Two different joints not the same thing so that's a good thing and both successful outcomes.
35:47
But you know it's one of those things where you would assume the career
35:50
that that is hard that actually you know
35:53
he's achieved everything so why would there be any other underlying stuff
35:56
and actually you know that just shows doesn't it
35:59
that even if you are
36:02
you know you look at other people and you think they've got
36:04
it all together i think you know actually when we
36:07
when we open up the space we are all human we're all suffering from
36:10
the same thing so actually that problem shared can
36:13
be you know a really helpful thing to do and yet
36:17
still with that even though I know it and we've talked
36:20
about it for how many years Andy H I still am amazed when he says it so do you
36:25
know what I mean it's like it's constant learning for all of us my god even
36:29
Len's saying this stuff is that wow that is really interesting so it's even
36:33
though I you know all this stuff and that's why I think It's not a course that
36:37
you come on and you learn that and then that's it.
36:40
It's a constant development and thing for you to, it's a constant growth all the time with it really.
36:47
And that's what I like about it is that you're not coming on a session,
36:50
oh yeah, just send me the PowerPoint of that. It's like, no, it's not that.
36:53
It's an investment and a lifelong thing.
36:56
And I guess with that, what was interesting, we had some feedback early on.
37:00
Oh, it's not for me. and it was the curiosity of going what was the expectation of what it was.
37:09
And I think there is an assumption that you are going to come on,
37:14
there is going to be a PowerPoint and we are going to share some slides and it's going to be this.
37:19
And actually when you come on, it is just a really open and honest conversation.
37:24
And it really is about genuinely if you've got something, how can we all generally share this?
37:31
Because actually we're all on
37:33
our own journey in the way we are doing it and we all feel the same way.
37:38
So actually how do we support each other you know for listeners that are curious okay so what,
37:45
you come on this you know the really interesting
37:48
thing is one of the guys and i i'm sure he
37:50
won't mind me saying but you
37:54
know he he came in with an idea that he
37:57
wanted to lead the nhs and wanted to set up his private practice
38:00
but didn't really know where to go and was
38:04
brave enough to say that out loud and he was
38:07
getting advice in the first session for a
38:10
really really experienced clinic owner he didn't
38:13
know who she was which was really interesting which was cool and
38:17
you know what she'd done in the world but he was getting advice to the extent
38:19
where he's now joined on everyone and he'll launch his first business by next
38:24
year so actually just by being part of a community is giving him the motivation
38:30
the encouragement and the bravery to go right let's commit to this you know and I think for me,
38:36
that's a real testament of,
38:39
you know, what we've achieved just over the last few webinars.
38:42
So then, you know, what fills me with excitement is to go, okay,
38:47
so if after that we've helped somebody go from being stuck into taking action.
38:53
You know, what can next year bring for the people that come in?
38:58
You know, and I think that's the real thing. It's exciting, isn't it?
39:01
It's to explore with curiosity what on earth could we achieve if we all worked together.
39:06
Yeah, I think it is important as well to help listeners realize that there is
39:10
a direct connection between this reflection and contemplation,
39:13
sharing and collaborating with your business success.
39:16
Because I think a lot of people in healthcare do it because there's a certain
39:22
altruism, they want to help others and they get a kick out of that.
39:26
Then they start burning out because they're seeing so many people and it's not
39:29
working and they're not getting the return they thought.
39:31
So a lot of the solution to people's businesses is looking after yourself,
39:36
changing you, looking inside and going down different avenues.
39:41
So that's what this is all about. And yeah, I mean, we've seen a few of those
39:44
sessions where people have opened up and they've gone on to be able to have
39:49
the confidence to make serious decisions and hopefully benefit from it.
39:52
So yeah, definitely attached to improving your business and not just financially,
39:58
but just helping you be more happy with what you're doing.
40:01
Getting better results and so on.
40:04
There was just for people who are interested in the score app.
40:08
Okay. So I mentioned earlier on, if you go to unbound.scoreapp.com,
40:12
there's a questionnaire, which will start the processes reflecting on your business
40:15
and how happy you are and your goals.
40:18
Somebody in the chat has mentioned that they went there and filled it out. Thanks very much.
40:21
And they said, I got 49%. Can you put some context to that? What does that mean?
40:26
The percentage result that people get?
40:28
Fearless is going to be leaning on me to answer this question.
40:31
Yes, please. I looked at your face and I thought you were going to go,
40:34
please, Andy, answer this question.
40:38
And it's relative, Matt, isn't it? It's relative. So is it Tim? Yeah. Yeah.
40:44
So it's relative. Look, you know, for me, when we're looking at anything,
40:49
it's, you know, Tim's obviously taking the time to fill that out.
40:53
What that report will do is it's looking at different
40:56
areas of lots of
40:59
different areas of where they are where they're stuck so 49
41:03
actually just means it's a present state moment isn't it
41:06
that's where you are now what the report will actually do
41:09
is is then also highlight areas of
41:12
where you probably need to focus your time effort and attention on
41:15
and and i guess the question for
41:18
me to tim is what is about the report that resonated you know
41:22
you know is a percentage important or
41:25
is it shows you areas that you're doing well in and areas that
41:27
you probably need to focus in is that what's important you know
41:31
i think the percentage is is relative it's
41:34
just how the the score app kind
41:37
of tries to create a metric if that makes sense
41:40
i think the relative part for me is what
41:43
does it tell you as a mirror so if you were to hold a mirror up
41:46
to yourself does that feel like a true reflection if not
41:49
then be curious about you know how you answered the
41:51
questions and what it's showing and then what's the difference
41:54
is that a good answer or a relative answer
41:57
so people could two people could score 49 but for
42:00
different reasons because of different answers they gave but is the idea the
42:03
percentage like if somebody scored 100 that means you've got no problems everything's
42:08
going swimmingly and you've been super positive and is is the lower the percentage
42:12
meaning the more problems you've got or issues you're not facing or how does
42:16
it work with the idea of giving you a tangible percentage.
42:23
I will, the honest answer to that is there is an assumption that the questions
42:29
are all not relevant, just generic and some.
42:31
I would say the questions were all relevant and not just generic,
42:35
like some questions. Okay.
42:36
Thanks, Tim. That's good feedback. The question,
42:40
For me, I wouldn't get the argument. If you're scoring lower in a percentage,
42:46
then I would say that what that's
42:47
and what the report will do is tell you what's the relative of that.
42:53
I guess the thing is, I would argue if you're scoring low, then there's lots
42:58
of areas where you probably need to focus your time, effort and attention.
43:02
My curiosity is then where would, you know, the hardest part with that is bring
43:06
that with you and then discuss where we need to start.
43:10
You know because sometimes that can be the thing i certainly
43:13
wouldn't you know unfortunately there is a percentage that's
43:16
just because of the way the score app works if it was me it
43:19
would be more about what does what is each section telling you okay in the sense
43:24
if that makes sense so yeah yeah so don't dwell too much on the final number
43:28
just something i guess i think the problem is when we have a percentage we automatically
43:32
move to school and go is that a pass or a fail yeah yeah you know And actually,
43:38
all 19 means is that you probably need to think about what you need to do to
43:43
get it higher up the scale rather than worried about the actual percentage.
43:47
You did say earlier on that overall there was some kind of interesting traits amongst the responses.
43:52
And one of the ones you mentioned that a lot of people weren't happy where they
43:55
were, or was there a, what did you mention were some of the traits you've seen?
43:58
Yeah, certainly. So one of the things we were looking at was,
44:01
you know, almost a satisfaction score of where people felt they were in their career.
44:05
Okay. one of the interesting facts it was not everyone was what we found quite
44:10
there was quite a low people low amount of people that felt where they were
44:13
was where they wanted to be.
44:15
The interesting fact to that there was also a low people of people confident
44:19
taking action towards moving forward okay yeah gotcha yeah you know so which
44:25
for me i think i think is across a lot of sections not just healthcare sectors
44:31
not section across healthcare where you know
44:35
There's a lot of emotion, isn't there, from being where you are and making change.
44:41
I think what that leads us to do is curious, okay, so why?
44:45
What's the behavior that underpins that? And how do we help facilitate people to become?
44:52
A bit like that example that we used before of going, I'm not happy where I
44:56
am. I actually want to create this business, but I feel a bit stuck.
45:00
So how do we help bridge that gap through conversations and through these non-judgmental spaces?
45:07
I think also, I think just the part of it is asking questions.
45:10
That's the root of coaching for it because people will come and say,
45:14
I don't feel happy in whatever they're doing, say.
45:18
But then actually a few questions later, it's like, well, what are you,
45:21
what would make you happy? What are you looking for for these people?
45:26
And sometimes it can be the grass is greener.
45:29
And once you actually delve into it a little bit more, it's like,
45:32
well, what are you looking to achieve here? What are you trying to do?
45:35
What aren't you happy with? All of those things.
45:37
Even that reflective process just helps them think, actually,
45:40
okay, right, yeah, that helps.
45:42
Because you can come with a preconceived idea, right, I'm not happy,
45:44
I want more money, I want to do that, I want to work with athletes, or whatever it may be.
45:49
And just having that bit of just stopping, having Andy or anyone ask some questions
45:55
of you, helps just get you thinking, and just be like, okay,
45:58
because it's certainly not right.
45:59
Okay, right, you want to do athletes, right, we'll go and speak to them, and da-da-da-da-da.
46:03
Now, we can do that, but I don't think it's as helpful as actually just getting you to
46:07
understand what you're really wanting to do because
46:09
a score like you said 49 is completely irrelevant
46:13
it's about you where you are and
46:16
trying to move yourself and that's that's all it is
46:18
really is like okay you've made progress and same with
46:21
clients as in if you're assessing your your
46:25
patients it's all about move positive change that's
46:28
that's what i think is so important and making yourself
46:32
accountable it's not about Andy me
46:35
or Andrew to like say right okay we're holding
46:38
you accountable you've got to take ownership for this stuff and that's why these
46:42
things really help you with that so whether it's with us whether it's with whatever
46:46
you're doing get time out to do it because it's that that cognitive process
46:51
of reflecting and working through these questions makes a massive difference.
46:56
Great. Fascinating stuff. A few comments here. I just want to read out.
47:00
Gary Benson, founder of the STA.
47:01
He has said, when members submit their CBD forms, it makes interesting reading.
47:06
Gradually, the reflections are becoming much more detailed. Attendance at the
47:09
coffee evenings chats and accountability sessions is growing.
47:12
Yeah, I mean, that's great to hear.
47:13
And we are trying to do, you know, I mean, we're trying to follow the same kind
47:17
of thing with the STA and encourage people to chat with each other,
47:21
use the fact you're paying money for a professional association to meet up with
47:24
individuals and create safe places where people can share problems.
47:28
So, I mean, that's something which, again, I think listeners...
47:33
You have got, obviously, what we're offering here with the Unbound Project.
47:37
But if you're belonging to a professional association and you're paying money
47:41
for that, that's kind of one of the things they're supposed to be providing you.
47:43
They're not supposed to be selling your courses or making you spend even more money.
47:46
They might offer something, but ultimately, it's supposed to be about support
47:49
and providing you with those conversations and ears and people to mix with.
47:53
So no one out there, that's why Gary set out the STA, was no one should feel alone.
47:57
If you're in healthcare, you need to be in a network, especially if you're a
48:00
solo clinician, which is sometimes the most loneliest place in the world.
48:03
Take advantage of the fact you do belong to an association or organization and
48:07
try and get involved in these meetups and find the confidence to share and help
48:12
yourself and also help others.
48:14
Steve Kirby, also, hey Steve, good to see you. Steve Kirby says,
48:18
I think Andy is right. It's great. All three of them are right.
48:21
Recovering from sepsis. Good to hear you recovering, Steve.
48:24
Steve says, taking time out and resting is so important.
48:27
Being up to working and treating people i love it doing therapy
48:30
isn't a job for me it's a passion and i love it resting taking
48:33
time out my work has been very much improved better
48:36
clinical outcomes for my patients great show matt keep it going thank
48:39
you steve and great to hear that you're on an upward trajectory in regards to
48:43
your health and yeah i mean that's such so positive a silver lining you've been
48:47
in a horrible situation horrible horrible situation but now you've reached the
48:51
place where you're thinking wow thanks to that time out i'm actually enjoying
48:54
life more and having better clinical outcomes. That's super positive,
48:57
Steve. That's really cool.
48:59
Let's hope that people don't kind of wait until they're in similar situations
49:02
to you to have them rest. We need to do that now, isn't it? That's kind of the take-home message.
49:06
Don't wait to be out of action. But yeah, thanks, Steve, for sharing that.
49:10
And yeah, and Tim came back, like you said, and said, I will say the questions
49:14
were all relevant and not just generic like in some questionnaires.
49:17
Yeah, it's a really good questionnaire. I recommend you people do it.
49:19
It could be just a step to self-reflection, which you haven't really done before. And it's so,
49:23
interesting and relevant for healthcare professionals as well from whatever
49:27
career you've got go and have a little look at that we'll make sure it goes in the show notes.
49:31
Right it's 8 54 we have said that the next taster
49:34
session is god i've just realized how long andrew mccall mccall
49:38
has had his photo up there for the whole practically the whole of the he's
49:41
so happy with that won't he he's been up there the whole episode i've got
49:44
a picture of it i was gonna say i've just taken him
49:47
on yeah it'd be what he deserves in the
49:51
group chat in a minute it's like having him here with us just a lot
49:53
more peaceful it's lovely it's nice so yeah the next taster session
49:56
is uh monday the 8th of december seven o'clock we'll
49:59
put that in the show notes and links to it as well i do
50:02
recommend you come along to that and then also if people
50:05
do like the taster sessions and the next stages belong or join
50:08
up with a community how does that work what is the
50:11
community at the moment and how do people join that yeah so
50:14
the it's an online community what will happen is you
50:17
will so even if you've done the scorecard you will
50:20
get an invite so you'll get an email
50:23
invitation to join the community what we've done
50:25
is set to obviously come in introduce yourself
50:28
say hello to everybody what you can do from
50:31
that community we've created some themes and some threads
50:34
so if you've got an issue rather than your business or where you are you know
50:38
just pop in a conversation pop in what you're looking to get from it and then
50:44
what you'll find as community members we're all kind of joining that conversation
50:49
you know if you're asking a question then normally you'll get maybe another question back.
50:53
Like what Anneli was saying, you know, sometimes it's not always about an answer.
50:56
It's about a bigger question to help you to move your thinking forward.
51:01
The three of us hang out in there, so we're always jumping in as well and answering
51:05
and sharing our insights along the way.
51:10
And if you're in the community, you can also download an app from that,
51:14
and so you can actually get that app on your phone so you don't have to keep logging into a laptop.
51:19
So you can then... And then it's just another space where,
51:23
like you've said, if you've got something on your mind and you'd like to just
51:27
get some insights from other people, it's just a place where you can just drop
51:31
in a question and get some insights from other people's viewpoints of the world and hopefully
51:36
help either solve your problem or move your problem in the direction that you want it to go.
51:41
That's great and it's really interesting as well because we've had a few episodes on
51:43
how toxic social media can be and and people turning to
51:46
facebook or twitter or wherever thinking they're going
51:49
to get a solution actually they get more of a headache and feel even worse and
51:52
we said never even asked the question so this sounds like a really nice
51:54
alternative to the dangers that are out there if you go down kind of
51:57
the social media route looking for support well the
52:00
nice thing is we can regulate us can't we i don't
52:04
think we can regulate facebook i don't think i can regulate
52:08
facebook or when he tries to get sold off for being
52:11
too regulative so you know there's i think you
52:14
know and and that is you know ultimately all of
52:17
our goal you know i'll talk from my perspective andy
52:20
can obviously answer for himself you know
52:23
is all the effort is to create in these spaces where people feel that it is
52:29
going to be you know where we could be challenged but it's from challenge of
52:33
a place of love and curiosity rather than a place of judgment and shame and
52:37
that's certainly one of the big the big drivers of what we're all about and
52:41
how we can then progress that forward yeah.
52:44
Amazing yeah and i think just to add on to
52:47
that like you mentioned gary like the guy the word that you do
52:49
the sta is brilliant and like you've always really driven that
52:52
and you stands pack therapy expo and it's great and
52:55
it's i think for us for us is this is not oh yeah the unbound project is all
53:00
you need to do on this it's just like we want to create spaces that are allow
53:04
you to be open and vulnerable i think it's not at all like that particularly
53:09
in health care again i'm involved in other industries and healthcare is particularly not like that.
53:15
So anything that we can do to create that is we do it.
53:19
So whether it's a physical event, whether it's one of Andy H's coaching courses
53:24
that he's doing, Andrew McCauley's always packed out S&C for therapists.
53:29
That they're all spaces to have these conversations.
53:32
And what Unbound is there to do is this is dedicated specifically to this.
53:36
You know, you go to a conference, you get, I'll go to Therapy Expo
53:40
next Thursday and you'll have like two minutes
53:42
to chat to someone then you're on to the next one it doesn't give
53:45
you any quality time to actually have these conversations and get
53:48
into anything of depth what we're here to do is create that
53:51
space where we can do things go a bit deeper on it
53:54
and just to help help people again
53:57
including ourselves with it as well so that's that's what
54:00
I'm so excited about is creating something that's dedicated
54:03
to it not just an afterthought yeah definitely it's
54:07
great I'm convinced to convince me just got to convince everyone else now it's
54:10
a little bit trickier but there we go right so wonderful thanks for joining
54:13
us live people and for listeners if you are interested in finding out more about
54:17
the unbound project then you could follow them on instagram if you if you use
54:22
instagram so that's at the dot unbound dot.
54:26
LinkedIn is a great place. If you're a professional, then Unbound Project,
54:30
just search that on LinkedIn and you can follow and update some posts there.
54:33
Or you can follow the individual people, the founders, Andy Thomas on Instagram,
54:37
Andy Hosgood, Andrew McCauley. I'll give you all those in the show notes.
54:41
So not to kind of read them all out now. But yeah.
54:44
And also if you have got any questions, like I always say, then leave the comments,
54:47
go to YouTube and leave questions in there.
54:50
We do monitor YouTube and it's got a great shelf life so we can keep this conversation
54:54
going. It's not just one episode.
54:55
Don't talk any more about it so if you are if you are listening to
54:58
the podcast first of all thank you and if you've got any further questions
55:01
here do go to youtube and leave something in the comments there right next
55:05
tuesday there's not going to be a podcast as we will be
55:08
i say we myself and gary and the other people from yesterday will be heading
55:11
to therapy expo so if you are going to be there do visit us we'll be in the
55:14
same kind of place on that back wall and there's not an sti theater this year
55:18
which is i'm so excited about because we did the exmouth conference but I will
55:21
be able to actually walk around and have conversations with people and not feel
55:25
I need to be somewhere at a certain time.
55:27
So it's going to be remarkably more relaxed for me, which is wonderful.
55:31
I can't wait for it. It's the first time in 10 years or something. So it's really good.
55:34
So yeah, I'm going to be there for chats if everybody wants that and other people in the STA stand.
55:39
STA school is going to be there as well. So yeah, if you are going along there
55:43
this year, then make sure you find us and we can have a talk. We can have a chat.
55:46
If you've enjoyed this episode, as always, do please subscribe to our YouTube
55:50
channel and leave a rating and review on your preferred podcast app.
55:53
I always say it takes, again, it'll take 10 seconds, all it takes,
55:57
but it will make a difference for the great kind of word from our guests to
56:00
appear higher in Google search results that somebody puts in collaboration.
56:04
If you've left a nice review or rating or something, bam, it will appear high up. Simple as that.
56:08
So if you want to help the industry, start by leaving a rating or review for
56:12
these shows that we do. All 263.
56:14
You can go back and leave ratings for all of them. Just, you know,
56:16
time management. That'll be fine.
56:18
Right. So that's it. Nothing next week, but we will be back the week after with
56:22
an update from how Therapy Expo went.
56:24
Just leaves me to say thank you so much to Andy Hosgood. Thanks for joining us again, Andy.
56:28
Thank you. And Andy Thomas. Pleasure as always. Thank you so much.
56:31
Thank you and uh andrew bakali who is here in spirit not in person but andrew
56:36
thanks as well for everything you do and everyone who's listening thanks so
56:40
much for joining us live thank you for the podcast listeners take care of yourselves
56:43
and of each other and we'll see you.