Latest / Merryn Talks Money / Rate Cuts, Fiscal Resets, and AI Reality Checks

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Rate Cuts, Fiscal Resets, and AI Reality Checks · Merryn Talks Money

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to the Marender's
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Speaker 1: Money Market Wrap, where we talk about the biggest moves
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Speaker 1: in the markets this week and what is driving them.
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Speaker 1: My Marrine unset, web Editor at Large for Bloomberg UK Wealth.
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Speaker 2: And I'm John Stebeg, Senior Report a Bloomberg and the
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Speaker 2: author of the Money Distilled newsletter.
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Speaker 1: Hi.
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Speaker 2: John, Hi, it's been a while, is it. Yeah, it
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Speaker 2: feels that he's been a while. With a few days.
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Speaker 2: It was that did one to Marcus and then I
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Speaker 2: think we may have skipped a week.
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Speaker 1: I've spoken to a lot of interesting people, even if
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Speaker 1: I haven't spoken to you. There's been a a laughter
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Speaker 1: that was kind of cool. But Edward's coming up next week.
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Speaker 1: That was great. Rob Arnold really good. Yeah, a lot
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Speaker 1: of other good people coming up. I mean this podcast
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Speaker 1: is just a really holding its own at them. I mean,
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Speaker 1: Gus Wise and then there's you.
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Speaker 2: Well, obviously I'm the sort be to clear the palette
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Speaker 2: of all that equality.
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Speaker 1: But none of that downbeat contrarianism exactly. John. You were
1:13
Speaker 1: writing about the Bank of England today. We got a
1:16
Speaker 1: hold on interest rates, which isn't very exciting, but nonetheless
1:19
Speaker 1: is what we expected, isn't it?
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Speaker 2: It is? But the unexpected bit was that the vote
1:24
Speaker 2: was much tighter than Marcus have thought that there wasn't
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Speaker 2: much tighter. They thought that six people were going to
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Speaker 2: vote to hold and three were going to vote to cut,
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Speaker 2: and as it turned out, five people voted to hold
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Speaker 2: and four voted to cut. And by the sounds of it,
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Speaker 2: it sounds as if everything else being equal, Andrew Bailey
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Speaker 2: would like to go for a cut in December, if
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Speaker 2: you know, if Evyn remains, broadly speaking, the kind of
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Speaker 2: same as it is now. Obviously, the difficulty is there
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Speaker 2: is the budget before that. There's also another two inflation
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Speaker 2: data points before that. But the thing is, if in
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Speaker 2: flat she actually peaked at three point eight percent in September,
2:03
Speaker 2: which is the most recent one we've got, it'll probably
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Speaker 2: come down about three and a half percent before the
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Speaker 2: bank's next meeting, and that would give them the leeway
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Speaker 2: to cut by a quarter point because one of the
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Speaker 2: problems I think we cutting this month would have been
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Speaker 2: that they'd actually have had a negative real bank rate
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Speaker 2: at that point, because the bank rate would be three
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Speaker 2: point seventy five and CPI would be three point eight.
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Speaker 2: By the time the end of the year comes around,
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Speaker 2: they haven't got that kind of visual huddle to get
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Speaker 2: over things. Interesting because one thing that you know, I
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Speaker 2: will say is that so Rachel Reeves had her emergency
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Speaker 2: fiscal narrative reset at the start of the week and
2:43
Speaker 2: that it sort of came out of the blue. But
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Speaker 2: one of the points that she was trying to drive
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Speaker 2: home was that the thing she wants to tackle is
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Speaker 2: inflation and she wants to see interest rates come down.
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Speaker 2: And the kind of fact that she's been emphasizing that
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Speaker 2: it's sort of suggested to me, and also the timing
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Speaker 2: suggests that she did want to send a bit of
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Speaker 2: a signal to the Bank of England, and while they
3:03
Speaker 2: might not have cut rates this month, it kind of
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Speaker 2: again makes it feel as if that's what they want
3:09
Speaker 2: to do next month, especially because you know, to be fair,
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Speaker 2: it was her. A lot of the inflation over the
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Speaker 2: past year was her fault because the reason employer national
3:21
Speaker 2: insurance contributions and raising minimum wage. So that's one of
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Speaker 2: the things that's helped to drive up the course to food,
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Speaker 2: for example, in supermarkets, because employers are pass knowing some
3:31
Speaker 2: of their cost increases and the cost of the products,
3:37
Speaker 2: and the fact that she's sort of come out and said,
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Speaker 2: but well, I'm not certainly tried to say I'm not
3:42
Speaker 2: going to do that again. May she gives us at
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Speaker 2: least some sort of clue as to where she might
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Speaker 2: be leaning for the budget.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is quite interesting, isn't it. And that
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Speaker 1: if we look at the budget and there's so many
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Speaker 1: things being floated around the place, if you can't divide
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Speaker 1: it up by thinking, well, she won't do anything that
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Speaker 1: will make the inflation numbers go up, you can remove
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Speaker 1: quite a few things from the list.
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Speaker 2: Well V eight first start. And actually the other interesting
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Speaker 2: thing is because there's been one of the things that's
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Speaker 2: come out today is the idea of charging a paer
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Speaker 2: mile tax on electric vehicles to replace kind of bex
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Speaker 2: you know, broad tax basically. And one of the things
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Speaker 2: I've been sort of thinking about is because the OBR,
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Speaker 2: every time you know, they do their budget forecast, they
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Speaker 2: act as if the Chancellor is going to unfreeze fuel duty,
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Speaker 2: even tho though no one has on frozen fuel duty
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Speaker 2: since twenty ten. So that means that I say, whatever
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Speaker 2: amount you're told the Chancellor has to make up. There's
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Speaker 2: about another five billion or so on top of it,
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Speaker 2: because their kid knowing that this is kind of baked
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Speaker 2: into the pie, and it absolutely isn't. So I was
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Speaker 2: thinking she might have to increase fuel duty, but of
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Speaker 2: course that would be inflationary. So I can see this
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Speaker 2: road tax substitute is coming in as a thing, which
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Speaker 2: means she can still keep petro duty where it is,
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Speaker 2: so that doesn't push up inflation, but it obviously cannot.
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Speaker 2: It's an added cost for anyone who's got an electric car.
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Speaker 1: God the hoops, phaye jump through. Yeah, it's just ridiculous.
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Speaker 2: It's unfortunate. There's so many elements in these short term
5:21
Speaker 2: politics that melitate against good longer term policy. And you
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Speaker 2: do have to wonder who who is the audience for
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Speaker 2: all this stuff? Ultimately, is it just that they care
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Speaker 2: about the headline and the newspaper, the attack angle they're
5:39
Speaker 2: going to get kind of attacked on, because mostly this
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Speaker 2: is the reason we've got, you know, attacks Bible, which
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Speaker 2: is twenty four thousand pages long. It's ultimately about a Yeah,
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Speaker 2: you know, Chancellor's chasing short term headlines.
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Speaker 1: Anyway, we have to move on. We mustn't depress ourselves
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Speaker 1: over this any further. This week we have had the
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Speaker 1: what you call the emergency fiscal narrative reset, and I
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Speaker 1: call the emergency expectations reset. But same, same, same, same
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Speaker 1: from Rachel Reeves earlier in the week, and she would
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Speaker 1: like everyone to know that absolutely nothing is her fault,
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Speaker 1: never has been, never will be, and that is that.
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Speaker 1: But because of things that other people have done which
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Speaker 1: had nothing to do with her, everyone's going to have
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Speaker 1: to pay a lot more tax in When she says everyone,
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Speaker 1: she actually probably does mean everyone this time, right.
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Speaker 2: I hope she means everyone, because as long as she
6:35
Speaker 2: does mean everyone, then we may get a relatively simple watchet.
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Speaker 2: I don't. I think that's probably hoptant for too much.
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Speaker 2: But the thing at this point, Harkin, what I would
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Speaker 2: really like to see, But if Rachel Reeves stood up,
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Speaker 2: basically spoke for twenty minutes and said, I'm putting income
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Speaker 2: tax up across the board by two pins, and that's
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Speaker 2: basically it, then I'd be happy. It's probably right a
7:02
Speaker 2: very nice money distilled about that in the context, because
7:07
Speaker 2: that would be in this situation. But then in this situation,
7:10
Speaker 2: she's kind of nice to stick herself in that would
7:13
Speaker 2: be about the best way to deal with the problem,
7:16
Speaker 2: the least disruptive way to deal with the problem. I mean,
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Speaker 2: not that any of us would be particularly happy about it.
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Speaker 2: It's not enough, is it, John, There's not enough. You
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Speaker 2: get maybe five billion, seven billion per penny I say,
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Speaker 2: top fifteen billions, nowhere near enough.
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Speaker 1: Doesn't touch the.
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Speaker 2: Sound you need. Maybe you need to do three pence,
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Speaker 2: But if you do two p on the basic rate,
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Speaker 2: you know, because I mean, there's no way that we're
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Speaker 2: not going to get a bit more than that when
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Speaker 2: the higher rates, just to show that the wretch are
7:42
Speaker 2: getting squashed as well. I think that's maybe twenty billion
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Speaker 2: if you might if you do that, I mean, no,
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Speaker 2: it isn't enough. She ployed does still need a bit more.
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Speaker 1: On top of that, if you go back to fifty
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Speaker 1: p fifty p and the pound at the top rate
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Speaker 1: fifty two percent with the National Insurance. We did have
8:01
Speaker 1: half a lava on last week, and the laughter curve
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Speaker 1: we think kicks in well around there.
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, think he's right, I mean, and that raises
8:10
Speaker 2: buttons anyway, if it does make any money. I mean
8:12
Speaker 2: already the top three attacks doesn't reise that much, and
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Speaker 2: if you bump up, you're talking millions rather than billions.
8:19
Speaker 2: So it's always been a virtue signal and tax level.
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Speaker 2: But for some reason that seems to be important to politicians, but.
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Speaker 1: To you signaling, well, you know, what we really need
8:31
Speaker 1: is policy that works rather than policy if it makes
8:33
Speaker 1: people feel good about themselves.
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Speaker 2: But yeah, that's not even people feel good about themselves
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Speaker 2: at this point.
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Speaker 1: But really doesn't feel good about herself? Does she poor thing? No?
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Speaker 2: I suppose she's just torpingly hang on?
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Speaker 1: Why why if I always heard you know, I would't
8:48
Speaker 1: want to hang on. I wouldn't want to hang on.
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Speaker 1: I'd be looking at it going, well, this is absolutely
8:53
Speaker 1: no fun at at all. Turns out everything that I
8:55
Speaker 1: believed in doesn't work. I was completely wrong about everything.
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Speaker 1: Do you know what I think? I'll call don't go?
9:00
Speaker 1: And that's what I would be doing if I was
9:02
Speaker 1: messing something up this badly.
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Speaker 2: It's very hard to wrap your doing the politicians psychology,
9:07
Speaker 2: because I can't imagine that any of them in the
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Speaker 2: last ten to fifteen years of at any fine. The
9:13
Speaker 2: last one that Luke Saphie was kind of enjoying himself
9:16
Speaker 2: was twenty Blair and I mean, I've been deal has
9:19
Speaker 2: to thinking about what goes on. That's it in a
9:21
Speaker 2: daily basis.
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Speaker 1: I suppose look at it the other way around. I mean,
9:24
Speaker 1: someone said, you know, on social media the other day
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Speaker 1: talking about politicians and their general failure to growth, basic
9:31
Speaker 1: financial concepts, et cetera. And someone said to me, Oh,
9:35
Speaker 1: it's not that they don't understand, it's just so they
9:36
Speaker 1: are all horrible people. And I was saying, this simply
9:39
Speaker 1: isn't true. Pretty much every politician that I come in
9:43
Speaker 1: contact with, these are people who really they mean well,
9:46
Speaker 1: They mean well. They want a good outcome. Everyone wants
9:48
Speaker 1: the same outcome, and they wanted to be when we're
9:50
Speaker 1: living standards rise and people have betting living standards and
9:53
Speaker 1: everyone is happier than they are, everyone wants that. No
9:56
Speaker 1: one who goes into politics thinking well, maybe they are
9:58
Speaker 1: a few thinking I'm just going into this.
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Speaker 2: I don't know.
10:01
Speaker 1: I means like, you're paid enough. I don't know why
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Speaker 1: you would go into it if you didn't mean well.
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Speaker 1: Most people mean well. But you meanwhile get into high
10:09
Speaker 1: office and you find out that meaning well is not
10:12
Speaker 1: enough and you are absolutely lousy at the job. And
10:16
Speaker 1: therefore the result of your actions is to make things
10:19
Speaker 1: worse for many millions of people and to make you
10:21
Speaker 1: completely miserable. Why wouldn't you just down told and go home?
10:25
Speaker 2: Because I suppose it's just cognitive dessonance. They believe there's
10:29
Speaker 2: stuff and a lot of the time, for example, they
10:31
Speaker 2: believe in rent controls, you have to essentially be impervious
10:35
Speaker 2: to history, to reason, to logic, and yeah, it keeps
10:39
Speaker 2: coming back, and you're right. I don't think zorain, ma'am.
10:42
Speaker 2: Danny wants to destroy New York or to make people's
10:46
Speaker 2: He wants to make people's lives easier. But for some
10:49
Speaker 2: reason he thinks that if he does rent controls then
10:52
Speaker 2: it will work.
10:54
Speaker 1: And he absolutely refuses to look at decades and decades
10:58
Speaker 1: and decades of evidence. And one of the few things
11:01
Speaker 1: that pretty much everybody whoever looks at numbers actual numbers,
11:05
Speaker 1: because numbers on opinions, their numbers agreees to. I'm writing
11:10
Speaker 1: this week, by the way, about the end of rink
11:12
Speaker 1: controls in Cairo.
11:15
Speaker 2: Okidle I interested when.
11:17
Speaker 1: Controls since in nineteen twenties has been rank controls in
11:22
Speaker 1: Kira one way or another. So a lot of the
11:25
Speaker 1: center of the city certainly all the old apartments are
11:27
Speaker 1: all controlled. There are people paying the equivalent of twenty
11:30
Speaker 1: five cents a month for gorgeous four bedroom apartments hanging
11:34
Speaker 1: over the nile. Everything falls into massive disrepair because the
11:38
Speaker 1: landlords have no money to sort them out in any
11:40
Speaker 1: way whatsoever. And well, you know, you know the story.
11:43
Speaker 1: Everyone knows the rank control story. And finally that is
11:47
Speaker 1: being reversed.
11:47
Speaker 2: That's going to be fastinating first, that would be really interested.
11:51
Speaker 2: I had no idea that was even a thing.
11:54
Speaker 1: Right, Moving on from there, moving on from the from
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Speaker 1: the misery is of the UK fiscal situation and the
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Speaker 1: upcoming budget and how you're going to have to pay
12:05
Speaker 1: more tax and I'm going to have to pay more tax,
12:07
Speaker 1: and for what everyone's going to have to pay port next,
12:09
Speaker 1: moving on from that to the market. Now, the AI
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Speaker 1: story seems to be slightly unwinding. Markets have had a
12:17
Speaker 1: fairly volatile week and we've been talking about this for
12:20
Speaker 1: ages U andizing is this a bubble? Isn't it a bubble?
12:23
Speaker 1: Of course, it's a bubble. It's just a matter of
12:26
Speaker 1: when it when it crashes, correct and then crashes, only
12:30
Speaker 1: get a little correction before you get a crash. It's
12:32
Speaker 1: just a matter of when, not of what right, yeah.
12:36
Speaker 2: And the other interesting thing and this is something that
12:40
Speaker 2: a're more here in mutterings of rather than something I
12:43
Speaker 2: need you look at in a lot more detail. But
12:46
Speaker 2: you know, the all things also tied up with stuff
12:49
Speaker 2: like private creator and private equity and all of the
12:53
Speaker 2: unlisted sort of like always the money coming from. But
12:56
Speaker 2: I think the real issue seems to be more that
12:59
Speaker 2: markets are finally getting a bit jittery about whether the
13:03
Speaker 2: potential is going to match the amount of money being
13:06
Speaker 2: spent right now, because you're starting to get to that
13:08
Speaker 2: point where we're getting beyond It's not so much we're
13:11
Speaker 2: getting beyond the hype, but we're getting to the point
13:13
Speaker 2: where people are saying, right, well, we amut if you
13:15
Speaker 2: can to be spending and if you're saying that you
13:17
Speaker 2: don't care about the fact that you're spending hundreds of
13:19
Speaker 2: billions on this stuff right now, we need some sense
13:22
Speaker 2: of when that's ever going to come back to. And
13:25
Speaker 2: the thing is that, more than anything else, it's this
13:29
Speaker 2: idea that we're not seeing the return on the horizon
13:33
Speaker 2: that we justify this amount of investment. Well, also, I
13:37
Speaker 2: do think I still struggle with seeing how AI is
13:44
Speaker 2: going to actually change a lot of stuff you know,
13:49
Speaker 2: you keep, And I mean I think that the people
13:51
Speaker 2: who run these companies tend to adopt a hyperbolic approach
13:57
Speaker 2: to it, partly for political reasons. If you can convince
14:01
Speaker 2: people that you're about to build a machine that could
14:03
Speaker 2: end the world, then that also convinces people that, oh,
14:06
Speaker 2: this is a world change in technology. I should be
14:08
Speaker 2: invested in it. So I think a lot of the
14:10
Speaker 2: scare mongering about it is also part of the hype.
14:14
Speaker 2: Anytime I try to use AI, it's like getting a
14:18
Speaker 2: really bad in tern to write an article for you,
14:22
Speaker 2: and that you have to then go back and check
14:23
Speaker 2: everything yourself. And I still can't find a particular use
14:26
Speaker 2: for it. And I know that I'm not especially stupid,
14:30
Speaker 2: and I am also not really a late adopter. I'm
14:33
Speaker 2: kind of somewhere in the middle with technology. And if
14:36
Speaker 2: I can't kind of get it to do something useful
14:39
Speaker 2: for me, then I say, how is it going to
14:40
Speaker 2: put all these people out of jobs? Really?
14:43
Speaker 1: Yeah? And how is it going to be monetized? Well?
14:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I especially when it was that's I think people
14:48
Speaker 2: don't see me. There's a lot of competition out there.
14:51
Speaker 2: It's a bit like when if I just not like
14:53
Speaker 2: when search engines launched, because when search engines came about,
14:57
Speaker 2: it took a little while to shake out, but Google
14:59
Speaker 2: was the top dog quite clearly, and they never really
15:02
Speaker 2: got it surpassed. But it's now you've got GBT, you've
15:06
Speaker 2: get clawed, you get anthropy, you get perplexity. There's all
15:09
Speaker 2: kinds of ones that you can use, and I'm yeah,
15:12
Speaker 2: I'm struggling to see the the kind of story actually
15:17
Speaker 2: living up to the reality. And I guess maybe markets
15:20
Speaker 2: are getting there too.
15:22
Speaker 1: And of course there's all that Chinese competition as well,
15:24
Speaker 1: and we didn't have that back in the dot com days,
15:26
Speaker 1: did we.
15:26
Speaker 2: There wasn't no.
15:27
Speaker 1: Sense that there was an entire globe competing with the
15:31
Speaker 1: companies in the US, So it's a different environment. Anyway,
15:34
Speaker 1: on that, I would recommend that all listeners listen to
15:38
Speaker 1: our podcast with Albert Edwards which comes out on Monday,
15:42
Speaker 1: which is super interesting on all this stuff, comparing the
15:45
Speaker 1: dot com bubble at bubble or what if you think
15:47
Speaker 1: back actually we called it. We didn't call it the
15:48
Speaker 1: dot com bubble in the data. We don't call it
15:50
Speaker 1: the TMT bubble actually yeah, tech media and telecoms bubble.
15:55
Speaker 1: Dot com bubble came came later. Anyway, we talked about
15:57
Speaker 1: that quite a lot in the podcast on Monday, said,
16:00
Speaker 1: listen to that. The one thing that I wanted to
16:02
Speaker 1: mention before we go is the way the UK market
16:06
Speaker 1: that for two one hundred is reacting to the volatility
16:10
Speaker 1: in NASUAC and tech stocks, which is by not being
16:14
Speaker 1: particularly volatile at all and looking like it would really
16:17
Speaker 1: really like to get to ten thousand.
16:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a nice thing. It would being bording
16:24
Speaker 2: comes down. It's in whenever all the exciting stuff is
16:27
Speaker 2: going down, you can treat then you're a bit coin
16:29
Speaker 2: for the fifty one hundred tracker well, and.
16:33
Speaker 1: You can also. I mean, the other thing you can
16:35
Speaker 1: say is that while the UK market is also very concentrated.
16:39
Speaker 1: Whenever people talk about the US market being very concentrated
16:42
Speaker 1: and what a terrible signal, there's always someone who go, well,
16:44
Speaker 1: the UK market is very concentrated as well. The top
16:46
Speaker 1: ten companies may cover very last percent of it is true,
16:48
Speaker 1: but they all do different things. It's the concentration in
16:52
Speaker 1: the US is such that the top companies, the ones
16:55
Speaker 1: we worry about all the time. They're all in the
16:56
Speaker 1: same sector. Whereas in the UK up top you've got
17:00
Speaker 1: mine as injurers in your banks, et cetera.
17:02
Speaker 2: Very different Astro Seneca today is basically the top one
17:07
Speaker 2: Astra Zenica, So you're big drug makers assuming Astra Zenica.
17:12
Speaker 2: Just days here and as it so completely separate topic,
17:16
Speaker 2: have brought up astro Zenica. The other thing budget related
17:19
Speaker 2: I think is really interesting is what is she actually
17:21
Speaker 2: going to do about stamp duty on equities because Astra's
17:26
Speaker 2: decision he basically lists in the US, has meant that
17:31
Speaker 2: it's not going to pay stamp duty anymore, even though
17:33
Speaker 2: though it's listed in the foots one hundred and you've
17:37
Speaker 2: suddenly created this. It's not even look bowl because it's
17:40
Speaker 2: completely above board. But the point is there are lots
17:43
Speaker 2: of foote one hundred companies that could do this. A
17:46
Speaker 2: lot of them have got big US businesses, much bigger
17:49
Speaker 2: than their kind of business that's generated here, so it
17:52
Speaker 2: will be every rationale that they wanted for doing the
17:54
Speaker 2: same sort of thing, and then you wouldn't be getting
17:57
Speaker 2: any stamp duty, even though stamp duty would still be
18:00
Speaker 2: on the statute books. So I kind of feel that
18:02
Speaker 2: it's actually something that she needs to take a look at,
18:07
Speaker 2: because down.
18:09
Speaker 1: You know, we've been saying this for forever, got to
18:12
Speaker 1: do something about stamp your higher stamp duty in the world,
18:16
Speaker 1: et cetera. And now you say, well, okay, look, something
18:19
Speaker 1: has happened that proves that you need to do something
18:23
Speaker 1: to make the UK market more attractive. And you're not
18:25
Speaker 1: getting a stand duty anyway if people leave and you
18:27
Speaker 1: and I think that that is a rational reason to
18:31
Speaker 1: take action.
18:32
Speaker 2: Come full circle now, I bring you.
18:34
Speaker 1: Back to the beginning of our conversation. I mean, if
18:37
Speaker 1: that happened, If that happened, if in the budget we
18:40
Speaker 1: saw stamp duty abolished on equities, stamp duty abolished or
18:44
Speaker 1: maybe brought down to ten basis points it's three up
18:46
Speaker 1: in one percent or something like that, then you know,
18:48
Speaker 1: I go, well, okay, you're listening. You know you understand
18:51
Speaker 1: something about incentive and the same if if she really
18:54
Speaker 1: did go through with cutting the amount you can put
18:57
Speaker 1: in an ISO in cash and putting some kind of
19:01
Speaker 1: mandation on investing in UK equities if you're using a
19:04
Speaker 1: UK based tax wrapper, I will go okay, well, you
19:06
Speaker 1: know you're listening. You understand about flows, et cetera. But
19:09
Speaker 1: you know, John at this point hopes he low, hopees
19:11
Speaker 1: he low.
19:16
Speaker 2: She may be expectations if they were law.
19:19
Speaker 1: That's why I keep them low. All right, Anything else
19:24
Speaker 1: you want to say? Do you want to do? You
19:25
Speaker 1: want to point out to everybody how good, how good
19:28
Speaker 1: it is that you don't hold bitcoin because it's gone
19:30
Speaker 1: down so much.
19:31
Speaker 2: I know, I don't feel like it'd be small going
19:33
Speaker 2: that one. Yeah, I mean, what is it still over
19:35
Speaker 2: one hundred thousands? So yeah, maybe once it guys goes
19:38
Speaker 2: back below twenty.
19:40
Speaker 1: Okay, you're stopping smug around twenty. All right, there's a
19:43
Speaker 1: marker everybody around twenty. John's going to be smug, and
19:47
Speaker 1: I'll be upset because my minutes you're bitcoin holding won't
19:50
Speaker 1: won't be worth as much as it was.
19:52
Speaker 2: You'll never retire at this point.
19:54
Speaker 1: I'm never retiring anyway, never tiring one of those dB pensions.
19:59
Speaker 1: Not like that. Rachel. Thanks for listening to this week's
20:07
Speaker 1: Marin Talks Money Debrief. If you like us, show, rate, review,
20:10
Speaker 1: and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Also be short
20:12
Speaker 1: to follow me and John on ex or Twitter at
20:15
Speaker 1: marins w and John underscore Stepic. This episode was produced
20:18
Speaker 1: by Summersidi and Moses and