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165 - Wired Differently: Building a Freelance Photography Career While Neurodivergent · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

0:07
Casey Fatchett: Nope, no, it doesn't go there. There's a spot
0:11
for it here. Oh, hey there. Welcome to the nerdy
0:14
photographer podcast. I'm your host. Casey Fatchett, in
0:17
addition to providing informative and entertaining
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organize their gear heaven. Here? No, it's not going to fit
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there. They're not the same shape. What was I talking about?
0:48
Oh, right, on this episode of the show, I talk with
0:51
photographer Allie Hansen about being neurodivergent in a
0:54
freelance landscape. We discuss obstacles as well as how to use
0:58
neuro spicy superpowers to your advantage all that after the
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3:39
Hello and welcome to the nerdy photographer podcast. I'm your
3:41
host, Casey Fatchett, and I'm here today with wedding
3:44
photographer Allie Hansen, Allie, thank you for joining us.
3:48
Hi. Thanks for having me on. Before we get into the
3:52
conversation, we're gonna roll the dice breaker. It's the seven
3:57
worst photography or business advice you've ever received
4:04
seven or just one? No, no, just just one, the number I rolled
4:08
sorry,
4:10
Aly Hansen: Hmm, oh, gosh. I definitely received a lot of bad
4:16
advice. Bad advice in the beginning, I feel like,
4:20
honestly, when people insist on new people to do things like for
4:26
free, I don't think that that's actually a good idea. I do think
4:31
that you know you have to do a few things for free to get
4:35
going, but like, at a certain point you shouldn't have to, or
4:38
you shouldn't make yourself feel like in order to build your
4:42
career, that you have to do things for free to keep building
4:45
the portfolio. You know,
4:47
Casey Fatchett: I agree with you. I think that there's a
4:49
maybe you do a couple of things off the bat to get get started,
4:53
to get a little bit of a portfolio together, but then you
4:56
start charging, even if it's just a little bit, it's, it's,
4:58
your time is worth money. And here's what I'll add one to that
5:04
don't necessarily do everything for free for your friends.
5:08
People who get caught in that, that trap of like, Oh, hey, can
5:12
you bring your camera with you? And they come over and take a
5:15
couple pictures, and it's like, maybe just like, you got to pay
5:18
me something so that people, people respect that this is your
5:22
business.
5:23
Aly Hansen: It's important to have boundaries. Yep, exactly.
5:29
Casey Fatchett: We're talking today about neurodivergence and
5:33
being a freelancer. I have been a freelancer for 25 years. You
5:42
are a freelancer as well in the wedding industry. And, I mean, I
5:46
have my neuro spiciness is like some add maybe a little bit of
5:52
OCD going on. And how can you give people a little bit of a
5:58
background on yourself, and how you came to find that you were
6:05
new or divergent and and, yeah,
6:10
Aly Hansen: it's, it's really interesting because, you know, I
6:15
so I dropped out of high school, and so I never went to college
6:19
or got my GED or anything like that. I just sort of winged it
6:22
once I dropped out, and I spent my my teenage years and early
6:28
20s working, probably, I don't know, 50 different jobs. I would
6:32
always either get fired or I would quit. And so I was just
6:37
constantly job hopping. I hadn't really found my thing yet, you
6:42
know, I wasn't happy with anything. I didn't have any
6:45
hobbies, and when the pandemic hit is when I really sort of
6:51
started picking up a camera and got into that. And I think that
6:56
the timing of everything ended up being really like Kismet now
7:01
that I can look back in high on high on hindsight, in hindsight,
7:06
because the pandemic, and, like, the actual lockdown that you
7:10
know, America had those first few months ended up really, I
7:15
guess, like shaping my journey to figure out that I was
7:19
autistic. And now when I look back, I can see how sort of, of
7:25
course, you know, the pandemic was horrible and hard and, you
7:29
know, negative in so many ways, but it was also sort of positive
7:34
when I look back on the fact that sort of all the stars
7:37
aligned for me to be able to spend that time alone with
7:41
myself to even, first of all, like, really pick up a camera
7:46
and start getting into that side of things. But also, I now know
7:51
that I spent basically my whole life like masking really, really
7:56
hard, like forcing myself to be social, forcing myself to work
8:01
all these jobs that I hated, and when we were all forced to
8:05
actually be at home during lockdown is when I sort of
8:09
started figuring out about myself. Oh, I really like being
8:12
alone. I really like being at home. Oh, I kind of hate leaving
8:17
the house. Like it sounds so small, but that was actually the
8:22
beginning pieces for me. In the end, like getting diagnosed with
8:26
autism. And I also think that just all that free time we all
8:35
had allowed me to finally put my all into something hence, you
8:42
know, I've never stuck with a hobby, I've never stuck with a
8:44
job, but all that free time really just, I guess, turned my
8:50
my because I was diagnosed with OCD as well. And I do feel like
8:55
a piece of my OCD is what drives my business. And so I just went
8:59
full on obsessive mode figuring out how to be a good
9:04
photographer.
9:06
Casey Fatchett: It immersed people. I think I totally
9:08
understand what you mean by you're saying like, yeah, it was
9:10
terrible. But there was this, this element to it that forced
9:17
you to kind of focus on a different aspect of your life,
9:22
yeah, you know, because you weren't, you didn't have all
9:27
these sort of other societal crutches, I guess that were sort
9:33
of like you in place to like it would take up your energy or
9:41
focus other, yeah,
9:42
Aly Hansen: it interrupted our, our normal routines, right? So,
9:47
like it, none of us had experienced anything like that,
9:51
shocking the system. Yeah? And I ultimately, I mean, I even, you
9:59
know, I had a first. Friend who's autistic, who told me,
10:02
Allie, I think you're autistic and you should get diagnosed.
10:05
And I was like, I'm not autistic. Like, what are you
10:07
talking about? Like, I had, I guess, like, a stereotype in my
10:12
head about what autism looks like and like what it feels
10:14
like. And so I truly thought there's no way like that. I
10:19
don't, you know, have those attributes and characteristics
10:24
and um, but anyway, I ended up, I did seek out a professional
10:29
diagnosis last year, which was a six month process. They at least
10:34
where I went. It's like a whole big series of different like
10:37
psychological screenings and tests and all these things, and
10:42
it was a really long process, but in the end, they did
10:46
diagnose me, and it was very validating, and I honestly think
10:50
that it helped my business even more me getting that external
10:57
validation, because Now I feel like I'm really serious about my
11:02
boundaries and just, I mean, I'm pretty and I'm pretty upfront
11:08
with most clients about my autism, just because for so many
11:12
years, it was just like, this bad thing that I didn't have a
11:16
name for, that I would feel apologetic for, like in, you
11:20
know, concept consult calls or during actual sessions. Like,
11:25
just like, I know that I can sense how, quote, awkward I am
11:30
in those situations, and not everyone responds well to that
11:35
energy. And so it's actually been really freeing to just
11:39
straight up tell, tell clients, hey. And just so, you know,
11:42
like, I am autistic, and it does inform the way that I
11:46
photograph, in my opinion.
11:49
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's just one of the it they I think
11:51
there's probably some form of liberation there as well. Like,
11:56
you don't have to, like, pretend that that's not the case, or
12:00
that like that, that you're not autistic, they that you can also
12:07
it's sort of a self discovery, and since, like you said, a
12:11
validation of like what you were experiencing. So now you feel
12:14
like you know yourself better, you have a better grasp on
12:18
what's going on in your own world, then you're not just sort
12:22
of guessing as to what's happening. So in a sense that
12:27
how has I mean, like, obviously, like, you said that it's you
12:30
just mentioned some of the impact that it's had. But like,
12:34
how has it that diagnosis shaped the way that you approach your
12:39
work as a freelancer?
12:43
Aly Hansen: I've always been a pretty like, okay, so, so when I
12:49
started my business, I started with portraiture and, like,
12:52
editorial style, stuff, like, mainly with just individual
12:56
people, and then it sort of shifted to couples, and then it,
13:00
big time, shifted to couples and families before it ever got to
13:03
weddings. And I feel like my style has always, you know,
13:09
leaned documentary, but definitely there in the
13:11
beginning I was still really leaning into, like, the
13:16
editorial style and and direction and posing and, you
13:20
know all these things, and I feel like there was a definite
13:26
shift in my work, if you look at it, in the past 12 months versus
13:31
two years ago. Even I feel like I have given myself permission
13:36
to be sort of a quieter photographer. And on that same
13:42
note, a more hands off photographer, which turns out is
13:45
what how I really want to be and how I want to photograph.
13:50
Whereas even though I loved the work that I was creating in the
13:53
beginning, I think about a big part of me still putting
13:59
pressure on myself to, like, pose people and like, get really
14:03
into the session and the storytelling of it all, like, I
14:09
just don't think that fits my personality and how I actually
14:14
want to be photographing, and I just feel a lot more comfortable
14:18
now taking a more hands off approach, accepting that I'm the
14:21
quiet photographer and that's okay, like, there's no pressure
14:25
on myself and no pressure from my clients to, like, be a hype
14:29
girl, or, you know, be super enthusiastic when I'm
14:33
photographing. Like, that's not to say that sometimes I do get,
14:37
you know, outwardly enthusiastic, but I could be
14:40
having the time of my life, and my face is completely straight,
14:43
you know what I mean, and now I don't feel pressure to sort of
14:47
perform, put on a smile during it, yeah?
14:51
Casey Fatchett: So, yeah, yeah. Well, it's a masking thing,
14:54
like, I'm gonna, you get this sort of, I don't know, a. A
15:01
picture in your head of what you're supposed to be. And I
15:05
know that when I started out as a photographer, wedding
15:08
photographer, because I had done other photography beforehand,
15:11
but it was same, similar, like was doing portraiture and things
15:16
where I really wasn't doing a lot of client interaction. And
15:20
for years I felt like I had to be, and I'm tend to be an
15:23
introverted person, and that dealing with people and feeling
15:31
like I have to be, had to be like, you said, the hype person,
15:34
and being all, you know, rah, rah, rah, all the time, and it
15:38
takes so much energy out of you. And then, like, yeah, that
15:42
finding that you can be that there are everyone has their
15:48
place, and you find clients that sort of fit in with how what
15:54
your style is like, I will tell people I'm not that, you know,
15:58
like, I'm not a type A. I'm not going to order you around if
16:02
that's what you're looking for, or I'm not a person who's going
16:04
to be like constantly, like cheerleading everybody, but I
16:09
know people who do that, and if that's what you're looking for,
16:11
I can direct you to those. But this is what I do and how I am.
16:14
I think that. I'm sure that helps a lot, knowing that you
16:17
feel comfortable being that person, like being able to say,
16:24
like, this is what I am, and this is what I want to capture
16:27
and move from there. Yeah.
16:31
I mean, I think, I think that my diagnosis has given me just a
16:36
lot of permission and also confidence, you know, like a few
16:40
years ago, or even two years ago, in a consult call with a
16:44
potential client, I can always tell, you know, the moment that
16:49
I start losing someone, or like, I can see that they're not
16:53
vibing with my personality, or like, the things that I'm
16:56
saying. And a few years ago, I would sort of maybe scramble in
17:02
that moment and try to, like, save them, like, reel them back
17:05
in in the video call. Like, oh no, no. Like, I've scared them
17:08
off. What can I do to save or save this call and make them
17:12
want to hire me? Whereas now I get excited when I see that I
17:18
have scared someone off in a video call with, like, either
17:20
the things I'm saying or whatever my my sailor mouth, my,
17:24
you know, whatever it might be. Because now I really just have
17:29
realized that I it's a good thing to be scaring certain
17:34
types of couples or people off, because if they are scared by or
17:39
if they are, you know, made uncomfortable by how I approach
17:42
photography or my personality, whatever it might be that's not
17:47
a good fit for the wedding day anyways, because they should be
17:51
with someone that makes them comfortable. So now I see it as
17:54
a really positive thing when I start sort of losing someone in
17:59
the consult call, and then all the more, feel really happy and
18:03
optimistic when I can see that people are really like, vibing
18:07
with with the energy I'm putting off. Or maybe then they tell me,
18:11
Oh yeah, I'm autistic, or my sibling is autistic, or we have
18:16
ADHD, or, you know, whatever it might be. So yeah, definitely
18:21
not trying to, like, win people over anymore, and just sort of
18:25
accepting that it's going to take a certain type of client to
18:29
want to work with me, and that means that the people who do
18:32
work with me, it's going to be, like, a really perfect fit,
18:35
right? Like feeling comfortable and being that, that that person
18:41
of running the business is so important because, and I've said
18:45
this many times on the show of people listening, if you've
18:49
heard it a million times, you know, I apologize, but it bears
18:52
repeating when you're going out there and trying to find
18:55
clients, you know, they will often, people will often say
18:59
like, oh, you only need to get 2% of the 100% that's out there.
19:03
That's not true. You need to find 100% of the 2% that really
19:07
vibe with you, that match up with what you're doing. You need
19:10
to, like, find those people. You really need to find the ones.
19:13
It's not just any random selection of people everything.
19:17
It's the people who really match what you're putting out there
19:21
and like that. Need for much stronger connections with those
19:24
clients. They Oh, yeah, they feel way more connected to you.
19:28
You feel more connected to them. And I really
19:31
Aly Hansen: much less likely to have problems, you know, a long
19:34
journey.
19:35
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I really appreciate what you said about
19:37
like, hey, I want if they get freaked out by something I said,
19:39
that means I'm not a good fit for them. I think that's
19:42
something that a lot of photographers really just need
19:44
to, like, figure out, like, yes, you're running a business, and
19:48
you want to, like, book your face, whatever, but also to
19:51
understand when you're not a good fit for somebody, like
19:55
you're not you can't be everything to everyone and
19:58
understand exactly.
20:01
Aly Hansen: And it's not a reflection of us. It's just like
20:04
with, you know, friendships or relationships, not everyone is a
20:08
fit for each other, and I think that being able to sort of have
20:14
that resiliency and like acceptance in the wedding
20:18
industry does wonders for building your business, your
20:22
self esteem, your self worth. Like, in a lot of ways, our job
20:28
is sort of sales, right? Like we are sort of salesman, in that we
20:33
have to be okay being told no 20 times before someone tells us
20:38
Yes, and we have to be able to shake it off. And for me, I've
20:42
gotten a lot better at shaking it off ever since I've sort of
20:46
realized how important it is to drive away certain types of
20:51
people because certain sometimes we're just not a fit.
20:54
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, that's, I mean, that's a fantastic
20:57
perspective. I'm curious what aspects of you know, freelancing
21:03
do you find most challenging, like scheduling? Because I know
21:06
that some people's executive function is different when
21:09
you're neurodivergent. Like, what is there anything that you
21:12
struggle with? Like, scheduling? Yeah, workflow, things like
21:17
that.
21:17
Aly Hansen: Um, I would like to preface this with saying I have
21:21
never missed a wedding or backed out, right? So let's establish
21:25
that right off the bat. But this, this podcast, is a good
21:30
example. Honestly, anything I have to put on my calendar gives
21:34
me crippling not I wouldn't even say anxiety. It's not anxiety.
21:39
I'm not scared to do this podcast, I'm not scared to shoot
21:42
the wedding. Anything that involves leaving my house or
21:46
having to having to put it on my calendar in order to leave my
21:49
house gives me just this crippling overwhelm that's like
21:55
really hard to cope with, and one way that has manifested in
22:05
all areas of my life, with the pandemic hitting with becoming a
22:10
wedding photographer at the same time, and then with all these
22:13
like realizations about autism and neuro divergence and such is
22:18
that, you know, before 2020 I was a really social person. I
22:24
didn't even really. I knew that I liked being at home, but I
22:27
didn't really. I just thought, Oh, you're supposed to go out
22:30
with your friends all the time. Like, that's what you're
22:32
supposed to do. That's what people do. And now it's so
22:37
funny, like my partner sort of teases me about it, because it's
22:41
like, if I have one thing on the calendar for the week, which
22:45
usually is a wedding on a weekend, right? I have such a
22:50
hard time putting anything else on the calendar. And I'll say to
22:55
him and to everyone else, I'm so busy. I'm so sorry. Like I'm so
22:58
busy, I'm so busy. And then you look at my calendar and there's
23:01
just this one thing, but it's because I have first of all
23:05
accepted how much of a homebody and introvert I am, and I've
23:09
also realized that in order to be able to be with 200 strangers
23:14
every weekend and do a good job, like with my craft, that I
23:19
require, like, extensive reset time, hermit time, you know. So
23:27
I would say the biggest, like, just, I guess, brain wise,
23:32
mental wise, the most annoying part, or the most annoying way
23:36
it affects me, is that I have all these mental blocks I have
23:39
to get over, because most weeks I do have to put more than one
23:43
thing on the calendar, even if it just means, you know, the
23:46
wedding and then three other days are blocked out for video
23:50
consults, or I do, you know, photography mentorships, which
23:55
are over zoom and so then that'll be marked on the
23:57
calendar. That'll stress me out, and it's just really hard for me
24:03
to allow myself to live in the present, like, um, with like
24:08
scheduling, like plans and like social commitments and stuff.
24:13
It's something I'm working really hard on this this winter
24:16
season is just like, Okay, I've been off for the last two weeks,
24:21
and it's been awesome. Why am I stressed about the fact that I
24:24
have to go somewhere this weekend, you know? Like, why
24:27
can't I just focus on the fact that I'm off today and I'm off
24:30
tomorrow and, you know? So just sort of, like, getting over that
24:34
mental block of the overwhelm and, like, sort of the way it
24:37
freezes me up when I have to commit to things, and my whole
24:41
job is commitment. So it's hard,
24:43
Casey Fatchett: yeah, I'm sure. And like a first of all, I gotta
24:46
say I love the term hermit time. I definitely need that. Like
24:51
after a wedding, it's just like, okay, my wife also refers my get
24:56
home from a wedding that they just need to. To decompress
25:02
because of all this, like, I spent all this time around
25:04
people and just like the energy is just, you come home feeling
25:08
like I'm wired mentally but physically, just like drained,
25:17
like the battery is gone and like it also like doing
25:20
interactions, but like, I'm just so awake that I need, like, a
25:24
couple of hours just to, like process and like, get to a point
25:28
where I can go to sleep and relax.
25:30
Aly Hansen: Well, it's also even the weddings where we get to be
25:33
a little quieter, or maybe it's like such a gigantic celebration
25:38
that we're not even having to talk to people that much,
25:41
because everyone is, you know, doing their own thing. But it's
25:44
like, even in that scenario, we're still taking on so much,
25:47
because it's our job to be hyper aware of all 200 people in the
25:52
room, their their energy. We're supposed to take on their
25:55
emotions, their energies. Like, that's like, exhausting,
25:59
especially for an introvert. Yeah.
26:01
Casey Fatchett: I mean, you have to be empathetic. You have to
26:02
like, like, take that like emotion and and feel it so that
26:07
you can document it. So, yeah, it's just a lot of, yeah. It
26:11
takes a lot out of you. I think at the end of the day, it's
26:13
funny you bring this up like I was having a conversation with
26:16
Susan stripling in another interview, we talked about how
26:19
we feel like this, the an overwhelming sense of dread,
26:24
like existential dread, right before we leave for the wedding.
26:29
Like it, like I, and I will say it to my wife, like I just I,
26:32
like, I don't want to leave the house. I don't want to go
26:34
anywhere. Like it and I've same thing touch wood. Never missed a
26:39
wedding. Never like, there's never been an issue with that.
26:42
But like, it is this. It starts about, you know, for me, it
26:47
usually starts about two hours before, like, I'm supposed to
26:50
leave, and it's just this overwhelming feeling of like, I
26:53
don't want to go, I don't want to go anywhere, I don't want to
26:54
leave the house. I don't want to like, and just like, thinking of
26:57
all these things that are going to go wrong and whatever it
27:00
just, and she's just like, you need to just go be awesome and
27:05
do your thing. And I'm like, I know I'm good at this. It's not
27:07
that I doubt my abilities or that I'm going to have a good
27:10
time when I get there. Is just this, like, incomprehensible
27:15
feeling of dread about leaving, like, like, the Yeah, that's
27:21
Aly Hansen: Well, I think it's stressful even subconsciously,
27:25
like, even if we even if, like, on the surface, we think that
27:29
our brain isn't thinking about it very deeply. I think
27:31
subconsciously, it's a huge weight, because we know how much
27:36
rides on what we are about to do that day, like it is life or
27:42
death, not really. But you know what I mean? Sometimes feels
27:45
like you're an ER doctor, like, because if you you can't mess
27:50
up, you can't miss work, you can't call out, like you can't.
27:54
It's a lot of pressure to know that you you cannot. There's a
27:59
lot,
28:00
Casey Fatchett: there's a lot. There's a lot of writing on it.
28:02
There's a lot, yeah, I'm curious, like, like, I've used
28:08
my own like, my introversion and other things to enhance my
28:16
business. I mean, do you find that there's anything about your
28:20
neurodivergence that enhances your abilities, whether it's
28:24
problem solving or creativity. Oh, yeah, whatever.
28:28
Aly Hansen: Um, definitely, um, I'm I'm obsessed with my job,
28:35
but like, I mean that. Like, I don't, yes, I love it, but I
28:38
don't mean it in a loving way. Like, I literally mean that
28:41
whether I love it or hate it tomorrow, my brain is hyper
28:45
focused, obsessed on on making sure that my career lasts and
28:51
like that I'm doing things that will make my career, you know,
28:56
sustainable, and blah, blah, blah. And I truly believe that
29:03
how hard I hyper focused on it in the beginning, like I just
29:08
never really lost that momentum. And I think it's because, at
29:13
least for me, like I had, like I said, I had never stuck with
29:16
anything, I had never done a good job in anything. I'd never
29:21
received recognition or awards or anything like that, ever. So
29:25
I think that once I started getting so much, what is it
29:30
called positive reinforcement, or something I don't know, like,
29:33
when I started getting so much, sort of, I guess, positive,
29:38
yeah, for the first time in my life, it made me want to like
29:43
work harder, to challenge myself to like, make this happen. And
29:47
one part of that is that I'm, at least in my experience, one of
29:52
the few photographers who, not only do I love the business side
29:57
of things, but I'm really quite good. At it. And I do think it's
30:02
because my brain has chosen to sort of fixate on the business
30:07
side of things. And I just, yeah, I just when I'm like,
30:14
mentoring other photographers, especially photographers who
30:17
very much are like artists at their core. And like they're,
30:21
they're very artistic photographers, the way that they
30:24
shoot. And like their passion for the job, it can be really
30:27
hard to help someone put their business hat on. If all they,
30:33
all they sort of love about their job is, you know, the the
30:37
photographing part, right? And I so I do feel like it's sort of
30:42
been my strength, that I enjoy the business side of it, because
30:46
I'm able to sort of all right, let me, let me figure out how to
30:50
excel at the actual photo taking part, and then let me also
30:54
figure out how to excel at making sure I'm making money. So
31:00
I don't think that I if my brain was I don't want to use the word
31:06
normal, but you know what I mean? Like, I guess if I had a
31:09
neurotypical brain, I don't know that I would have gone as hard
31:14
as I have on the back end of things the last few years.
31:18
Casey Fatchett: I think it's one of those interesting things, and
31:20
we've talked about it a lot on this show, is, you know, that
31:23
creatives tend to not think about the business side of
31:27
things because we're we're more focused on like, I want to do
31:32
the photos, I want to do the part that I like to do, and
31:35
don't see the it's not that they don't see The benefit of the
31:41
business side of it, it's just that they have a hard time
31:45
grasping it, like, what, what the reward is for? Oh, I gotta
31:51
have my, my invoicing all in order. And for, for me, like,
31:56
like, having a CRM that handles, like, invoicing and all like,
32:00
all that stuff like that. I don't have to. One of my issues
32:03
is focus and then having, like, little things that get in my way
32:09
throughout the day, like I have to block a certain amount of
32:11
time off, like I'm going to do this amount of time for my
32:14
calling, or I'm going to do so this amount of time, whatever.
32:16
And like, having those scheduled things and having structure so
32:19
in all, lots of little things sort of bump up. So if there's
32:22
like, emails that need to go out to remind people to pay their
32:26
invoices, I can't be like, you're not going to send them on
32:30
your own. Yeah, I'm not going to do it like or it's going to mess
32:32
up my rest of my schedule. So having those little things
32:35
there, yeah, I know that about myself, and it's helped, you
32:38
know, quite a bit to be able to to have something that that
32:42
automates that, but also understanding the importance of
32:45
the books and the numbers and things like that. Like, okay, I
32:49
ask people who I mentor as well, like, what's your ROI on that ad
32:53
that you were like, oh, yeah, I don't know. Like, you don't
32:57
track, I don't know. Yeah, you don't track where people are
33:00
finding you from. And they're like, No. And I'm like, Well,
33:02
why not? You're not gonna know if it's worth it. Like it's not.
33:06
You're not gonna know that thing is bringing people to your
33:09
business. So yeah, like those sorts of things that. But they
33:14
find it either it is not the thing they enjoy about the job.
33:20
So it feels like more work, and it's sort of a self fulfilling
33:26
cycle of like, this is the thing I don't like. So I don't like
33:29
it.
33:31
Aly Hansen: Well, the main thing I try to tell people is, I think
33:36
it's easy, especially if you're someone who you know, sort of
33:43
idealized becoming a professional photographer. It's
33:46
easy to see having that as a career, like through rose
33:51
colored glasses, but sort of what I try to remind people is,
33:56
hey, if you're not like, Okay, you're shooting, you're editing,
34:00
we know that. But if you're not literally working 40 hours a
34:04
week on this career, like, do you think that this is not a
34:09
real job because you have to treat it like a real job, you
34:12
know, going to your gigs, editing and posting on
34:17
Instagram, that's not how you run a business, at least not
34:20
like in the long term, not sustainably, like if you think
34:24
you have no work to do, but sort of the you know your business
34:28
goals have a long way to go. Then there is no shortage of
34:31
things you could be sitting at your desk or even on your couch
34:35
doing on the back end to make your career flourish faster. And
34:41
you know, I tell people not to get discouraged thinking about
34:44
that, if that, you know, makes you feel, uh, you know,
34:49
exhausted at the thought of that, you're like, Oh, God, I
34:51
don't want to do that, but it's temporary, right? Like most
34:55
people just have to build their career up to a certain point.
34:59
And then they can sort of back off a little because once you've
35:02
been doing it a certain amount of years, or you have a certain
35:05
level of recognition, you're able to sort of take more of a
35:09
backseat, because things are going to be a little bit more
35:12
automated on their own, just from word of mouth, just from
35:15
reputation, you know. So it's not something you have to do
35:18
forever.
35:20
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, you've established at least some level
35:22
of trust with potential clients because you've been around for a
35:26
while, or people are mentioning your name, or whatever the
35:28
reason is, but it's also you develop like the systems. And I
35:32
think that's one of the things that like, that people don't
35:35
think about necessarily, is putting together a system for
35:38
handling inquiries, or whatever it is, having those systems in
35:42
place. And I was talking about like, having a CRM that does
35:45
invoicing that, like, that's a system that helps me save time
35:49
and helps me focus better. Like setting that stuff up. Once you
35:53
set it up, you may eventually that will carry you for very own
35:58
you might need to adjust it and like, oh, well, if I need to
36:02
change this a little bit or whatever, or I need to go back
36:05
and, like, reword my automated whatever, or I need to change,
36:12
yeah, I need to redo my website copy a little bit, because, you
36:16
know, things have changed over the years, but having that stuff
36:20
in place and spending, like you said, spending the time to do it
36:24
means that later on, you don't have to do all that work and and
36:30
or make more work for yourself that you've like you've once
36:33
you've set up the system that saves you time, like you have
36:36
more and more time as the years go by, like, You know, like it
36:41
starts to like it adds up, so you can spend more time doing
36:45
the fun stuff that you enjoy doing, or that you have more
36:48
time to do marketing and whatever things to bring more
36:51
business in so that you can sustain yourself or grow.
36:56
Aly Hansen: Yeah, and I resisted a CRM for the first three years,
37:01
which is really, really, really, really crazy. And all my friends
37:05
told me I was like, in the industry, was like, Ali, you're
37:07
crazy. But I don't know. I was just like, so set in my ways of
37:11
but I was truly, you know, driving myself into the ground
37:15
with the amount of work it was taking to do everything manually
37:18
and from scratch. And I've finally had a CRM for, I don't
37:23
know, a little over two years now, and you're so right, like,
37:27
it literally gives frees up so much time, so much mental space.
37:31
And, like, just a few days ago, I got my yearly charge on my
37:36
debit card for HoneyBook, and I was like, Oh, God, that number
37:39
is painful. And I was like, but think of all the headache it
37:43
saved me this year. It's worth the money, you know,
37:47
Casey Fatchett: yeah, it's taking thinking of all the money
37:49
and time that it saves you over the course of the year. And I
37:55
think it has, I think it's one of the better investments you
37:58
can make for your business.
38:00
Aly Hansen: If there's one thing I wish I would have believed
38:05
like in the beginning, you know, hearing it from other people or
38:08
whatever, that I just resisted for a really long time, it's
38:11
that your time is sometimes more valuable than anything, more
38:16
valuable than a money exchange, more valuable than anything.
38:21
Your time is sometimes worth everything, yeah?
38:25
Casey Fatchett: So, yeah, it's, it's the, you know, and it adds
38:29
up. It's the thing of, like, yeah, I have, you know, the
38:33
decades of doing this. Like, if I could save myself an hour on
38:40
every wedding that I've ever shot. That's, you know,
38:43
Aly Hansen: why would I not do that? Right? Yeah,
38:45
Casey Fatchett: it's hundreds and hundreds of hours, like,
38:47
over time. Why would I not save that time so I can spend more
38:52
time walking my dog or with my wife, doing something, or, you
38:56
know, other things, again, laying on the couch, spiraling,
38:58
yeah, just like, just laying down and going, I don't want to
39:02
do anything today.
39:03
Aly Hansen: Yeah, I don't stressing about seven days away
39:06
on my calendar.
39:07
Casey Fatchett: The sun has gone down while we're talking. It's
39:09
like, for me, like, I have seasonal affective disorder. And
39:12
like, yeah, the motivation just leaves. Leaves my body. It's
39:18
just like, just watch it fly away so I can spend more time
39:22
trying to motivate myself to get something done. When it turns
39:25
dark outside, this is the horrible segue I find that my
39:34
own elements of neuro divergence are kind of amplify my imposter
39:40
syndrome, because it's one of those things where I sort of
39:43
like, sit and is when you're talking about spiraling, is the
39:49
sort of like, Oh, I am not spending enough time promoting
39:52
myself on social media. I am not like, look at these very
39:56
successful look at this very successful person who manages to
39:59
post. On Instagram for five times a week and does this and
40:04
like it is, it is the overwhelming feeling of like I
40:10
don't have either the ability or the time. That's where, like, my
40:16
focus issues come into play. They're like, I have to sit down
40:20
and actually do the thing, and not sit here and roll it over in
40:28
my head over and over again and think about it and, like, stress
40:31
out, like, about something that's happening later in the
40:33
week, when I it's not affecting me today. Like, I don't have to
40:37
worry about that today. And that's, you know, that's a
40:39
Sunday Casey problem, not a day problem. Do you experience that,
40:47
like, in other things other than, like, scheduling or, like,
40:50
what is, what helps?
40:51
Aly Hansen: Um, wait, so is the question about imposter
40:55
syndrome?
40:56
Casey Fatchett: Or, yeah, I mean, so so badly worded. But
41:02
yes,
41:03
Aly Hansen: well, okay, I relate to what you said about the
41:07
overwhelm thing, obviously, but in terms of the other things you
41:12
listed, and I guess what sort of imposter syndrome is? No, not
41:18
really, but it's, it's funny, like, I met someone at a, like,
41:26
photography, a wedding photography exhibit that was put
41:29
on last summer. I think it was, and it was me and this girl, and
41:33
we were looking at this, this photo, together, and I guess we
41:36
just, like, struck up small talk. I don't remember, I don't
41:39
know, but we got to talking, and she and this is like her first
41:43
impression of me, right? And this was the autism happening.
41:47
But she was like, she was talking about imposter syndrome,
41:51
and I don't remember what she said, but she ended up, like,
41:54
point blank, like asking me, like, like, Do you know what I
41:57
mean? And I was just like, No. And she was like, oh and she was
42:03
like, you don't feel imposter syndrome. And I was like, No.
42:07
And I could tell that she was put off by it, and I could then
42:11
see that I was coming off kind of bad, like arrogant, for my
42:15
first impression on this person. And it's really funny, because
42:18
we ended up really hitting it off and talking about it later,
42:21
and now it's like a joke that that's how our friendship
42:23
started. Is like, like, she thought I was a bitch, basically
42:27
because I was like, No. I was like, Do you feel that? Like,
42:29
um, but no, um, i Because, you know, I know that, um, those
42:34
feelings are super, super, super common. And in the photography
42:38
world, creative industry, wedding photography world,
42:41
especially, I just don't find myself going down that train of
42:48
thought about things. I much more often spend my time
42:54
spiraling about, how can I Okay? It's more like okay when I first
43:00
started, my first instinct when I started looking at
43:04
photographers that I loved, which wasn't even in the wedding
43:07
industry, it was, you know, just just really cool portrait
43:10
photographers. I think I literally spent one night being
43:15
like, Damn, how did they get so good? How did they get
43:19
successful? Like, I just was down in the fucking dumps about
43:22
it. And the next morning, I literally woke up and I said,
43:27
Okay, everybody starts somewhere. If I love this photo
43:31
that this person took, then it's going to be my life's journey to
43:35
take a better photo, not not in a competition way or anything
43:40
like that, but just like, in competition with myself. So
43:43
like, I do feel like that, though, like my brain always
43:48
going in that direction, instead of, sort of the traps of, like
43:53
imposter syndrome. I feel like that's part of my
43:56
neurodivergence as well, and like, sort of just how my brain
43:59
has chosen to react to my my business and like, just, just me
44:07
wanting to sort of prove to myself that I can do this or I
44:11
can do that. And so my brain more so tends to shift into
44:17
like, Okay, well, how can I make it happen? But I know that, you
44:24
know, all my friends around me and everyone really struggles
44:27
with that train of thought. You know,
44:29
Casey Fatchett: yeah, it's a, it's one of those things I find
44:32
that really interesting. Because it's a, it's something I try to
44:35
tell people, like, Don't compare yourself to other people. And
44:38
like, we're all going through, like, something different, like
44:41
in I don't I mean, sometimes I look at a shot and I go like,
44:46
Oh, man, I'd love to go there and take a photo there, or
44:50
whatever, like those sorts of things. But that stuff doesn't
44:53
linger with me anymore, like it used to. There was a time, like,
44:56
early in my career, where I would sit there and be like, Why
44:58
am I not getting these jobs? Or why am I not like? Those are
45:01
things, but the imposter syndrome thing for me, tends to
45:04
be more unlike, and when it pops up, it's it's much after people
45:10
are like, really, you've been doing this for 25 years. It is
45:12
not that I doubt my ability to do my job. It's that I feel
45:17
like, and I think this is probably indicative of something
45:25
else. It's the am I as good as people think I am in my head?
45:30
Yeah, like, it's not that I don't doubt my ability to do the
45:33
job, but sometimes I I wonder if they think that I'm better than
45:37
I actually am. That's, that's the thing that, like, I
45:42
sometimes strike on I'm like, do they you know, it is the self
45:48
doubting voice where it's me, like, oh, they think that I'm
45:53
really amazing. It's partially because I can't take a
45:55
compliment. It's really hard. I start to feel really my
46:01
introversion, like, sucks me in whenever somebody, like, says,
46:05
like, Oh, this is really amazing photo. And I'm like, Hmm, like,
46:08
I don't know how to take that compliment. And that that's
46:11
where that sort of like, for me, that feeling is. But I find it
46:15
really interesting how you how you handle it, because that is
46:19
how I would love to be able to handle it. I would love to be
46:21
able to handle things that, or I wish I would have been able to
46:24
handle it early on, like that, to think like, oh, I'm going to,
46:28
I'm going to push myself to create on that level. Like that
46:35
is the as opposed to sitting there thinking like, I'm never
46:37
going to reach that, or, you know, that sort of thing.
46:40
Aly Hansen: Yeah, that's not to say, you know, like, I'm, like,
46:44
really hard on my work, right? Like, I'm really critical of my
46:50
photos. I try to look at them very objectively and without my
46:54
own like, feelings or attachment to the photo as possible,
46:58
because I just want to get better, like even just from a
47:02
technical standpoint sometimes, and, you know, I just, I just
47:11
lost my train of thought. I know what I just said. I was going
47:15
somewhere with that
47:18
Casey Fatchett: in regards to not being overly connected to
47:23
your work. Yes.
47:24
Aly Hansen: So I'm pretty critical of my work, which
47:28
sometimes I think can be a good thing. But it's like, it makes
47:32
sense, how those the imposter syndrome thoughts you're
47:36
describing creep in, because it's like, at a certain level,
47:40
right? We are all good photographers. Like, once you
47:44
reach a certain point, it's not a matter of, oh, did they
47:48
properly expose this photo? Or did you know? Like, if we are
47:52
wedding photographers, we very likely know what we're doing.
47:56
And I think that because of Instagram and whatever else you
48:01
know, maybe your best friend is, like, the most successful
48:04
wedding photographer in the world or something. It's like,
48:07
it's easy for us to be like, Well, everyone, like, we're all
48:13
good photographers. But am I a great photographer? Am I good
48:16
enough? And you know, like, sort of similar to what you're
48:20
saying, like it would, it just, it's hard, because, you know, at
48:24
a certain point we all, we are all good, are really good. And I
48:30
don't know, I just, I'm sure that I could get stuck in that
48:35
way of thinking if I sort of let myself, but I tried to redirect.
48:41
I think, like, if I ever feel those feelings creeping up,
48:44
because I definitely, I feel it trying to, you know, sometimes I
48:49
but I have just always redirected it to say, okay,
48:54
like, how can I, either, you know, prove to myself that I
48:58
really am, you know, pretty good at this, or, okay, I, you know,
49:03
bombed this part of a wedding day, like, a certain part of the
49:06
day. Okay, how can I do better next time? You know what I mean
49:09
like, and just sort of trying really hard to redirect those
49:13
thoughts so that I'm constantly, like, I said, like, sort of on
49:18
an upward trajectory overall with everything, instead of
49:23
letting my, I guess, photography career, whatever, like, be a
49:27
part of my, I don't know, depression, you know,
49:32
Casey Fatchett: that's yeah, like, letting it get you down
49:34
and like, it continues to like, and I think that for me, like,
49:38
just because I was using that example to begin with, was that
49:41
early in my career, it was much more prevalent, and now I'm able
49:44
to, like, recognize it and finding seeing that in yourself,
49:49
yeah, seeing yourself. And be able to slow down and stop like
49:57
before, where I used to, like, jump five steps. In my thought
50:00
process, I'd go from like, having that first thought of
50:04
like, Oh no, to like, oh my god, I'm the worst. Now it's like
50:08
that, oh no, and I'm like, Hey, wait a second. Let's slow down.
50:12
It's actually all okay, yeah, let's slow that roll. And now
50:16
you can sit there and think about it for a minute and be
50:19
like, no, no, that's not the case. So it doesn't Eat up, eat
50:23
up who I am anymore. Yeah, I'm curious what sort of role like
50:31
community plays for you. I'm not sure if you have, like, other,
50:35
know, of other neurodivergent creatives that you have a
50:39
community with, or just like, General, the photography
50:42
community, your wedding community, and, like, how those
50:46
things sort of play into your successes of photographer, just
50:51
how you deal with everything else.
50:52
Aly Hansen: Like, yeah, um, I think that it is so important.
50:57
First of all, um, and how do i So, like, I feel really lucky
51:06
that I'm a part of a lot of different, I guess, like, niche
51:11
corners of the wedding photography industry. And, I
51:15
mean, I'm sure even with the less niche parts of the wedding
51:19
industry, people are still, you know, very well connected. Like,
51:23
it's a small world, like, in our industry, but all the more with
51:26
and when I say niche, I'm talking about those, those of us
51:30
who shoot, like, mostly film at weddings and who shoot
51:33
documentary style, like, we, there's a there's a couple 100
51:37
of us, but that's actually not a lot, right? So, like, it's very
51:40
small. We all know each other. We're all sort of a part of
51:44
several, several different like groups together. Like, I'm in a
51:48
small discord with a group of women in my niche. I'm in a
51:54
wedding film photographer, like, bigger community. And then all
51:58
of us are pretty well connected. You know on Instagram there's
52:02
these, like, smaller like workshops and things like that,
52:05
that we'll go to a couple times a year that get put on, and ever
52:10
since discovering that those groups, friendships, whatever,
52:16
exist and that it's an option, like, my mental health has
52:19
gotten so much better than a few years ago, when I was not as
52:24
acquainted with people in the industry, and I definitely have
52:30
a lot of neurodivergent friends in the industry. I know of one
52:36
other at least openly autistic wedding photographer, but they
52:43
don't really, they don't talk about it the way that I do, like
52:46
on their Instagram, or, you know, whatever you know, every
52:50
every person's journey is different, like how they want to
52:53
either protect their their diagnosis, or what have You so.
52:58
But yeah, I definitely have a lot of neurodivergent friends in
53:04
the industry, but there's not, at least not openly, at least
53:07
not publicly. There hasn't been any really autism like
53:11
representation, which I think is part of why I made the decision
53:14
when I got diagnosed that like I'm going to scream this from
53:17
the rooftops, like I'm not trying to be cringy, or, you
53:22
know, like I'm not trying to make it my whole identity, but
53:24
the truth is, it is my whole identity, and I don't want to
53:27
feel ashamed of that, you know, and so you know. And I had
53:32
someone a few months ago confide in me that they got diagnosed
53:37
this past summer. They don't feel comfortable telling anyone
53:40
yet, not publicly, not in the industry, not their clients like
53:44
so everyone's journey is different. So that's not to say
53:46
obviously, I'm sure there's a ton of autistic wedding
53:49
photographers, but at least right now, there's not a whole
53:52
lot of representation. And yeah, does that? Does that answer your
53:58
question?
53:59
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it does. You said, like having those,
54:02
having those people you can mean talk to, and for those who
54:07
aren't necessarily as open about it or as you are, like having
54:12
people you can confide in and just discuss with, but also like
54:16
you were talking about generally, you know, the wider
54:19
like creative communities and niche, niche communities that
54:23
you're part of, having all those different things. Like, I,
54:26
again, this is something that I tell people all the time, like,
54:29
you have to find your your tribe, and people is that you
54:34
can talk to and who understand what you're dealing with,
54:40
whether it's, you know, being just in the wedding industry,
54:43
whether it is being neurodivergent, whether it is
54:47
shooting film. I mean, I started out shooting film. I was like,
54:51
because I'm ancient the but like, the thought of a, tell you
54:57
something that would make me spiral and stress out. Thought
55:00
of shooting only film at a wedding now would just, like,
55:03
stress me out so much, even though I did it, just because
55:07
it's like, I would probably be doing so much math in my head.
55:10
I'm like, the number of shots that I have left, and then how
55:14
many rolls of whatever film speed did I bring, like, to this
55:17
to shoot with? Like, what can I trying to do all those
55:22
calculations in my head.
55:24
Aly Hansen: It's a lot of work for sure. Yeah, don't put
55:27
yourself through it if you don't want to.
55:29
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that. Like, I mean, I still
55:31
shoot film on request, like, people who, like, if people want
55:35
it, I will, like, add film in for them. But there's just a an
55:41
element for me, of, like, my anxiety levels, where that, that
55:46
first several years, where I was shooting only film for weddings,
55:51
where I'd be, like, I hope they all came out. Like, just the the
55:54
also, it was like we're dealing with, like, the equipment that I
56:00
had. Like, there were definitely some instances where I got stuff
56:03
back and I'm like, I think I'm developing a light leak in this
56:06
camera. There are old camera bodies. And it was just like,
56:11
okay, you know, I don't know if as soon as, like, digital became
56:14
a really valid option, I was like, I'm gonna split for a
56:17
while. And then I was like, Oh, this is awesome. Yeah, this is
56:20
so, like, just knowing that I got the shot, because there's
56:23
that was always, like, the biggest anxiety for me, it was
56:26
like, Did I get it? Did I manage to get especially with, like,
56:29
portraits, is everybody, or everybody's eyes open, like,
56:32
those sorts of things that that would like, make my head spin
56:39
internally, about, like, whether I was getting that stuff, it
56:43
wasn't so much like the candid things, but I was like, I was
56:45
fine with like, Oh, somebody's eyes are closed, or it's
56:49
slightly out of focus, or whatever. I don't care about
56:51
that, yeah, but it's more like the portraits.
56:53
Aly Hansen: Well, I don't shoot only film at wedding weddings,
56:57
unless someone, like, requests it and pays for it, you know,
57:00
like, pays for the whole day to be filmed or whatever, but which
57:04
people have done a few times with me, but I have a lot of
57:07
friends who shoot either only film at weddings or pretty much,
57:11
you know, 90% film at weddings. And, yeah, people, I don't mean
57:18
I don't know what it was, you know, like, you know, a couple
57:22
decades ago, but we've come up with creative ways together to
57:26
streamline the whole process, to make it feel or not even feel
57:31
safer, but literally be safer. You know what I mean? Like, it's
57:35
very cool, the ways that we have all brainstormed together how to
57:40
make this be a reliable way, reliable thing to offer to
57:45
people at their weddings. You know, in 2025
57:48
Casey Fatchett: 2026 I think that's, that's, that's great,
57:50
again, a great example of community, because when I was
57:53
doing that, that, like, that sort of thing didn't exist. You
57:55
didn't have, you had, you had to go to, like, us, like, Oh, we're
57:58
gonna go to a big conference. And, like, nobody's really,
58:01
like, talk about that sort of thing, yeah at a conference. And
58:06
finding those, it's,
58:09
Aly Hansen: it's pretty great and convenient. Like you could,
58:12
I don't know, fuck up real bad on a wedding weekend. And then
58:15
message one of your group chats tomorrow and be like, Hey guys,
58:19
this happened with my pentex, 645, and like, this is the sound
58:22
it made before it happened. And here's blah, blah. And like,
58:25
everyone will figure it out. And it's awesome.
58:28
Casey Fatchett: That's one of the best things about the
58:30
photography community, that when you find your people, it's like,
58:33
everyone's gonna everyone wants to work to to help each other
58:37
out. And it's sort of like, I mean, that's honestly why I
58:39
started this whole thing. Like, the nerdy photographer was like,
58:41
I want to help people. And you know, like, how can I solve your
58:46
problem? And if I don't know how to solve it for you or help you
58:49
with it, I'm going to find somebody that I know, find
58:51
someone who can, find somebody who can. So kind of winding this
58:56
up a little bit like, what advice would you give to
58:59
neurodivergent photographers or autistic photographers who dream
59:04
of full time freelance work, but they're afraid that it might be
59:09
too challenging.
59:13
Aly Hansen: I hope this is a good answer that makes sense,
59:17
but I feel like the biggest epiphany I've had about
59:21
everything is that, first of all, everyone is on their own
59:27
unique journey, right? Like, the same reason why for the first
59:31
two or three years, it worked for me to not have a CRM. You
59:35
know what I mean, like, everyone is going to be on their own
59:39
unique journey. And I wish what I would have known sooner was
59:42
just to lean into the things my my brain is requesting of me and
59:49
like, what I mean by that is like you, for example, have said
59:54
that you've you've found great like success and relief through
59:58
having all these systems for yourself. Itself. Maybe some
1:00:00
automations, you know, maybe just having everything really
1:00:04
streamlined and planned out and things like that, whereas I've
1:00:09
actually found that the opposite sort of CRM aside, because it
1:00:14
does do all that stuff for me, but I don't have stuff really
1:00:16
automated in it. It's still pretty manual. But anyways, I
1:00:21
have found the best thing for my business is not having
1:00:28
everything, sort of like laid out, or like not having a plan,
1:00:32
like, you know, I used to think, oh to, you know, to keep myself
1:00:36
successful, to get successful, like, I have to have editing
1:00:40
days like Tuesday through Thursday, okay, that's for
1:00:43
editing, okay? Fridays are for video consults, okay? Weekends
1:00:47
are for weddings, you know, like, I would have it all
1:00:49
planned out so that I would have structure and like, I guess,
1:00:53
feel more like someone who has a more corporate or conventional,
1:00:59
you know, full time job, but, but I started actually getting
1:01:03
so much done and also feeling so much healthier mentally when I
1:01:09
live by sort of, I don't know vibes is the right word, because
1:01:13
it's definitely a slippery slope, like if you were the type
1:01:16
of person that you know if you don't have a Certain system set
1:01:20
up, or you don't follow a certain calendar or structure
1:01:24
throughout the week that you're not going to get things done,
1:01:27
then obviously you know that about yourself, and you should
1:01:29
not attempt the way that I do things. But I do think that a
1:01:34
lot of neurodivergent people could benefit from trying to
1:01:38
take a little bit of pressure off of themselves, and so, like,
1:01:41
the way that I do that is okay today, for example, I planned to
1:01:46
edit all day up until this podcast, and I did edit most of
1:01:49
the day, but two hours before the podcast, I just felt like my
1:01:54
eyes could not handle looking at the computer anymore. And like,
1:01:58
when that happens, I'm not going to do a good job, and then I'm
1:02:00
going to have to come back tomorrow and start adjusting
1:02:03
things so, allowing myself to walk or to clock out when I feel
1:02:10
like it, allowing myself to call out sick after lunch, like
1:02:15
allowing myself just, just all these things that even a year
1:02:18
and a half ago I would beat myself up for like I would beat
1:02:22
myself up for not finishing what I had planned to edit that
1:02:26
night, or I would beat myself up for not doing the website thing
1:02:31
I was supposed to do. But I have just found so much success, like
1:02:35
mental health wise, in just trusting myself, trusting that
1:02:40
I'm responsible enough to get these things done that I need to
1:02:44
get done, and giving myself grace when I need to rot on the
1:02:50
couch instead, or when I need to quit early for the night, or
1:02:54
when I'm supposed to edit, or I keep using editing. It's just an
1:02:57
example, right? But if I'm supposed to be working as soon
1:03:01
as I wake up. Well, maybe, maybe I really just need to go outside
1:03:06
and go to the park for three hours. And then, you know what I
1:03:08
mean. So just, um, I think that I wish in the beginning, I had
1:03:13
given myself permission to try out different ways to be a
1:03:17
business owner, instead of I almost feel like the way I was
1:03:21
trying to run my business the first few years. It worked, but
1:03:25
it was destroying my mental health, and I almost feel like
1:03:28
the way that I was being a business owner. I was sort of
1:03:31
masking on the business side of things, like in my personal
1:03:35
life, because I was trying to I was putting all this pressure on
1:03:39
myself. That was the whole reason that I never lasted
1:03:43
having an actual boss or having a job working for someone else.
1:03:47
So I think just really exploring all the different ways that you
1:03:53
can make this happen for yourself. And of course, for
1:03:57
some people, it is going to be that you do need that strict
1:03:59
structure, or you're simply not going to get shit done. That's
1:04:02
how my partner is, like, he would never be able to do it
1:04:05
this way, or he would never get anything done. You know, so, but
1:04:10
it's important to experiment and see what works for you, and then
1:04:14
not feel bad for it, no matter what the outcome is like, accept
1:04:18
that. I don't know. It's like, how people have love languages.
1:04:22
Like, you have a love language for how you need to work, you
1:04:25
know, and just letting yourself do what your brain needs you to
1:04:30
do, right?
1:04:30
Casey Fatchett: You need to have your business love language. And
1:04:33
that's interesting, because, like, for me, like we were,
1:04:35
you're talking about, like, Oh, you're like, having this
1:04:37
structure. Like, sometimes I feel like I'm too structured,
1:04:39
and it's still, like, it's something I talk about with my
1:04:42
therapist, about my anxiety. Because I get anxious about, oh,
1:04:50
I had planned to get XYZ done today, but I always
1:04:56
Aly Hansen: then you feel like a failure when it doesn't get done,
1:04:58
Casey Fatchett: right? And. And then being kind to yourself.
1:05:01
Yeah, like that. Hey, maybe you did need to take that break
1:05:04
after lunch, or you did need exactly to go for a walk, or you
1:05:08
needed to just call it quits for the day, whatever the case may
1:05:12
be, like, there's being kind to yourself, and like you said,
1:05:16
knowing that you can get it done and figuring out, like yourself,
1:05:19
trusting yourself to get it done and accomplish what you need to
1:05:23
accomplish, where it but also like being kind to yourself. I
1:05:27
think that that is something like for me, like the like, the
1:05:31
CRM scheduling stuff, the automated stuff I do is like,
1:05:34
I've created this questionnaire. I want to send it out two months
1:05:38
before the wedding. I don't want to have to sit here and remember
1:05:42
when two months before every wedding is, yeah, that gets sent
1:05:46
out and then, like, you know, like, when they fill it out and
1:05:49
it comes back, I'm like, Oh, now we can have a talk about this.
1:05:53
Now we can, like, schedule a another time to talk, or
1:05:56
whatever. It's those things that are like, when an invoice is
1:06:00
supposed to go out, those things that I don't want to have to,
1:06:04
like, be constantly because then I would get absorbed in the
1:06:07
Okay, I'm have to sit down and, like, write down when I'm
1:06:11
supposed to send out all of these things, instead of letting
1:06:14
it go out on its own and being like, okay, I can declutter my
1:06:18
schedule from those.
1:06:19
Aly Hansen: Yeah. You can take that off your plate,
1:06:22
Casey Fatchett: yeah, and just let myself like, that's that way
1:06:26
I can allow myself those moments of letting go and not being
1:06:32
Yeah, so strict with myself about like, When I'm being
1:06:37
quote, unquote productive or not
1:06:40
Aly Hansen: exactly. Yeah.
1:06:47
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1:09:17
Unknown: Hey, now for my favorite part of the show,
1:09:21
what's that? Say? Useless information. This is always
1:09:26
death, and now it's time for our
1:09:30
Casey Fatchett: useless information for this episode.
1:09:34
Ally, did you know that crows can recognize human faces.
1:09:41
Aly Hansen: Yes, I did. Me and my partner are really obsessed
1:09:44
with birds and learning about them, so yes, we did know. I
1:09:47
knew that. Sorry, I'm
1:09:50
Casey Fatchett: trying to get build my crow army myself.
1:09:54
Aly Hansen: Crows are awesome. They're really smart.
1:09:56
Casey Fatchett: They're super smart. They will hold grudges
1:09:58
for years. They. Recognize people, pick you out of a crowd.
1:10:03
Aly Hansen: Yep, it's crazy. They're so cool.
1:10:05
Casey Fatchett: They in the I think the most interesting thing
1:10:08
I found out in like, the last year or so about them, is that
1:10:12
what they mimic much like parrots and parents, but they
1:10:16
will mimic your voice. They will sound more human, like like you.
1:10:20
If you sound like you. It won't just like, be like, what's a
1:10:24
cracker? No, it'll actually sound like, Polly wants to crack
1:10:28
like a human talking. Really unsettling. Yeah. It makes like
1:10:32
watching videos of people like saying the talking to the crow
1:10:36
and the crow talking back. And you're like, Okay, something
1:10:40
like that, but I think it would be so cool to have,
1:10:45
Aly Hansen: oh yeah for sure,
1:10:46
Casey Fatchett: Ally, thank you so much for being on the show. I
1:10:49
really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me. Where can
1:10:53
people find you and see your work, or if they want to get
1:10:57
mentored by you, like they can get in touch with
1:11:03
Aly Hansen: so I'm pretty active on Instagram. It's Allie Hansen
1:11:06
weddings. I do have a personal Instagram as well where I post
1:11:11
not enough of my personal work, but that one is Ali Hansen
1:11:15
photo, and then my website is just Allie Hansen photo, calm.
1:11:20
And if you were interested in a mentorship, there's a tab on the
1:11:23
website that says for photographers, and you can
1:11:26
explore that page. Um, and yeah, I love hearing from people
1:11:32
meeting new people in the industry, or people trying to
1:11:34
get in the industry. So yeah,
1:11:38
Casey Fatchett: again, thank you so much for being on the show. I
1:11:40
really appreciate it. Yes.
1:11:41
Aly Hansen: Thanks for having me and my cat and my dog who showed
1:11:46
up,
1:11:52
Casey Fatchett: and we're back. While we were gone, the shell
1:11:56
Dari and I came up with a new organizational approach that
1:11:58
matches better with their higher functions as sentient robots.
1:12:06
Many thanks to Ali Hansen for being on the show. Be sure to
1:12:09
check the Episode notes for Ally's links. While you're in
1:12:12
the following mood, you can go follow us on the socials at the
1:12:15
nerdy photo. That's at the nerdy photo, no dots, underscores or
1:12:20
dashes on Instagram, threads, blue sky, tick tock and Reddit,
1:12:23
make sure you're subscribed to the show as well. And, you know,
1:12:26
leave us a nice review. That sort of thing helps us out. You
1:12:29
want to help us out, right? Oh, you guys want to help until next
1:12:36
time, everybody stay safe and stay nerdy. You
1:12:49
Unknown: who's your heart been beating about you better. Get
1:12:54
better. Get better. Get better. Listen, you.