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SMNTY Classics: Sissieretta Jones · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Welcome to stuff I never told you pro Actually iHeartRadio,
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: and welcome to another classic For today, we are bringing
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: back another female first about Cinciretta Jones, who is a
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: singer that we talked about with Eves on Female First
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: and I thought it was a great conversation.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Have you done any karaoke? Have you done any singing lately?
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: I haven't.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: The only in my car that makes me.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Say I have a karaoke machine.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: No, we have yet to use this.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: I should bring it. Hello.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it has like lights does, but we would not
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: get to the range and the amazing things that Cinciretta
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Jones accomp but still we could have fun. Yes, well,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I've never told you, protection of iHeartRadio,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: and it's time for another female first, which means we
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: are once again thrilled to be joined by the amazing,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: fantastic Eves.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: Welcome Eves. Hello, Hello, Hi, how are you? How have
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: you been?
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: I am doing very well. I don't know what to say.
• 1:40
  Speaker 5: It's hot outside. I'm trying to stay, you know, outside
• 1:45
  Speaker 5: as much as possible without melting.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: Mm hmmm. It has been possible so far, so I'm
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: excited about that.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: But you know, wow, that's a skill.
• 1:53
  Speaker 5: Have you been off pretty well? You know, I mean
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: staying in the shade a lot.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: I was.
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: I was like outside in the car yesterday saying, how
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: if this feels impossible, Like I am not even that
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: close to the equator and the sun is that far
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: away from me, and it's this hot. Doesn't really make
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: any sense, but you know, I was gonna. I was
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: just say, I prefer this to being cold. But I
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: feel like that also that has a little bit more
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: meaning because of climate change, things are in a certain direction,
• 2:25
  Speaker 5: so I had to double I had to think about
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: that again for a second.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean true, true, I've been like the opposite.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: I prefer the colds, and I've gone outside very very little,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: which makes me sad because I do love going outside.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'd be out there for like a minute
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: and I know, what.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: Is this go back and does not compute?
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Mm mmmmm mmm.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: What about you, Samantha, what are your.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, I'm on the same lines with Eaves.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: I don't want to say it too loudly either, because
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: I feel like when we do, especially in Georgia, the
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: climate's really test you, Like, yeah, you think you want
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: to be warm, but as we speak, I'm a little
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: cool right now, to the point that I'm like, where's
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: my blanket? Which I have all year long in my office,
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: so you know. But yes, it's definitely been one of
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: those times where it's like, yeah, but I don't love
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: sweating either, So.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Which is it? It's a delicate balance. It's a delicate
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: balance for sure. Well.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I am very, very excited to talk about who brought today.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: He's this very compelling story. But before we get into it,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I'm just curious where you both lie on like the
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: singing scale, Like how do you rate yourself?
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Do you enjoy singing? Did you ever think you're going
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: to be a singer, Samantha?
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: Do you want to go?
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: That's funny, as our listeners pretty much know, I do
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: love to just randomly sing.
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: Do I think I'm great at it?
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  Speaker 3: No? Do I think I can hit a tune? And
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  Speaker 3: am I okay with harmonizing? Yes, that's how I would
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: keep it. Did I think I could be a star
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: once upon a time, especially when you know Whitney came
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: out with her Bodyguards soundtrack. I'm like, yeah, I definitely
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: could hit these notes, by the way, I could not.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: I could not, but I really wanted to try at
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: that point in time and had those small dreams like
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  Speaker 3: maybe I could be a singer. At least I could
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: do the harmony the background vocals, but that's about it.
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  Speaker 3: And yeah, now that I'm getting older, I'm like, oh no, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I definitely couldn't do that.
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: I think singers are really amazing, and I'm honestly just
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: so often astonished at how many people can sing, but
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  Speaker 5: it's not their careers. But I can blow people out
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  Speaker 5: of the water when it comes to singing. I am
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: not one of those people. I took chorus for about
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: a year or something like that in elementary school, and
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  Speaker 5: I honestly have no idea why I was in it.
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: I think it was probably just because my mom put
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: me in it. But I wasn't particularly great at singing,
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  Speaker 5: and I think that I can hold a note decently well.
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  Speaker 4: But I know that I don't have.
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  Speaker 5: It because I've heard people plenty of people who have
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  Speaker 5: it and.
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  Speaker 4: I ain't got whatever that is. I am so yeah, I.
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: Sing in the shower, I sing along with songs like
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: I sing in the car.
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  Speaker 4: I love singing like.
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  Speaker 5: It feels great, it feels expressive, and I like the
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  Speaker 5: way it makes me feel. And sometimes I will even
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  Speaker 5: record myself singing and listen back to it and say,
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  Speaker 5: how do I sound like I think I sound, because
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  Speaker 5: I'm always very curious because I feel like I sound okay,
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: but do I have reading?
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  Speaker 4: So I'll do that. Sometimes I'm like, oh, okay, that's
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  Speaker 4: how I feel about. It's basically okay, and then I
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: move a line.
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  Speaker 5: So no, definitely not any significant or noteworthy history of
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: singing in my life.
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  Speaker 1: I love that. I too.
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  Speaker 2: I like singing like in the car, around the house.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I love a good karaoke. I don't think I'm very good,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: but I have fun. I used to think. I used
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: to think when I was a kid that I was
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  Speaker 2: a good singer and I was singing in the shower
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  Speaker 2: and a bit like, oh this melodious voice. Now I
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  Speaker 2: don't think that, So I'm wondering if that's a shift
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: in confidence or like perception. Like when I was a kid,
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  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, I'm good, and.
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  Speaker 1: Now like, let's temper the truth. Temper with the truth.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I but I never I used to think
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  Speaker 2: I could be like a big time actor. I never
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: thought I could be a singer. There was never a
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  Speaker 2: moment where I was like, I'm that good, but I did.
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  Speaker 2: I was jealous of it. I was really jealous of
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: people who could sing. And I had friends who just, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: they would nail it, and they made it look so easy, Like.
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  Speaker 4: Why can't I do that.
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  Speaker 1: It's a talent, it's a skill. Yeah, but yeah, I
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  Speaker 1: do enjoy it.
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  Speaker 2: Well, all right, now that we've got our past and
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: experiences out of the way, who did you bring for
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  Speaker 2: us to discuss today?
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  Speaker 1: Eves.
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  Speaker 5: Today we will be talking about Cissi Aretta Jones, And
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  Speaker 5: that's why we were talking about singing, because she was
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  Speaker 5: an amazing singer. And even so, there were still a
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: lot of people who criticized the way she sang or
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  Speaker 5: her ability and singing. But she was the first Black
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  Speaker 5: American woman to headline a concert at Carnegie Hall.
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  Speaker 4: So we'll be.
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  Speaker 5: Going through her history. It was long, it lasted many decades,
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  Speaker 5: and it was very storied, and she traveled a lot.
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  Speaker 5: She toured a lot, so I'm excited to talk about
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: her today. She is like so many of the people
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: we talk about on other episodes of Female First, a
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  Speaker 5: person whose popularity or interest has waned over the years
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: posthumously after her death. During the time she was alive,
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: she had a lot of fame in many places around
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  Speaker 5: the world, but her notoriety after she died did wane
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  Speaker 5: a little bit, and then she came back into the
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  Speaker 5: view of the mainstream in certain ways. So yeah, I'm
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  Speaker 5: excited to talk about her and share her story with everyone.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, we're very excited to to hear it too.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm glad she's getting more attention lately because it
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  Speaker 2: was just she did so much and it was just
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  Speaker 2: kind of tragic that yes, disappeared and you can't find
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  Speaker 2: any recordings yeah of her. So I'm glad people are
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  Speaker 2: some people have been just fighting for so long, like,
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  Speaker 2: do not forget this person, do not forget what she did.
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  Speaker 2: I'm glad more and more people are like catching on
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  Speaker 2: and hearing this story and you have brought it to
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  Speaker 2: share even more. So Yeah, thanks me happy, Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: Shout out to all the biographers who do the hard
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  Speaker 5: work of making sure that these people's names stand people's
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  Speaker 5: minds and in people's hearts over the years, so really
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: grateful for all of them obviously, So.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll get into her story.
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  Speaker 5: She was born Matilda Ciciaretta Joiner in Portsmouth, Virginia, not
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  Speaker 5: long after the end of the Civil War in eighteen
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  Speaker 5: sixty eight or sixty nine. She was the oldest of
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  Speaker 5: three children born to her parents, but her siblings died
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  Speaker 5: when they.
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  Speaker 4: Were very young. Her father was Jera Maya.
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  Speaker 5: Malchai Joiner, and he was born into slavery in North Carolina,
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  Speaker 5: and when she was born, he was a carpenter and
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  Speaker 5: a pastor as well as a choir leader at a church.
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  Speaker 5: Her mother was named Henrietta, and she did laundry and
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  Speaker 5: she sang in the choir as well, and she was
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  Speaker 5: also from North Carolina. In her early life, Ciciaretta was
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  Speaker 5: called Matilda her first name, and also called Sissy, and
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  Speaker 5: they moved to Providence, Rhode Island, to the east side
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  Speaker 5: of the city. Not long after they moved to Providence,
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  Speaker 5: though Henrietta and Jeremiah did stop living together, Henrietta was
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: played a huge role in Ciciretta's upbringing and they made
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: money by doing laundry and she would iron in her home,
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: and around eighteen eighty nine, the Ciciretta's parents divorced, but
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  Speaker 5: she was already singing at a young age. She sang
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  Speaker 5: at school and at work, and as a teenager she
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  Speaker 5: began attending the Providence Academy of me Pretty early on,
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  Speaker 5: she married David Richard Jones, who was a hotel porter.
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: That was eighteen eighty three when they married, and marriage
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  Speaker 5: records said that she was eighteen and he was twenty four,
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  Speaker 5: but they were likely both a few years younger than that,
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  Speaker 5: and in April of eighteen eighty four, their daughter, Mabel
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  Speaker 5: was born, So she Cincioretta began singing at more church
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  Speaker 5: concerts and performing with groups here and there. In eighteen
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: eighty five, she performed with Flora Batson, who's another big
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: name in the singing community. She was a well known
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: black concert singer, and Jones also sang a solo in
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: a play featuring Black actor John A. R. No as
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: King Richard the Third that year, and later that year
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: it was kind of a big deal when she sang
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: in a concert at the Providence Music Hall starring Marie
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: Selica or Selika. I'm not exactly sure how to pronounce
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: that part of her name, but she was a black vocalist,
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: and she also had a first She was the first
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: black artist to at the White House.
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: But sadly, Jones's daughter.
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: Mabel did die when she was two years old, which
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: had an emotional toll on her and affected how she
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: showed up for her career. But she did go back
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: to singing and she performed more with Flora Batson, and
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: she studied may have studied either at the Boston Conservatory
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: of Music or the New England Conservatory of Music, but
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: it does seem like she's studied in Boston in the
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: late eighteen eighties. So she had a concert tour starting
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: in early eighteen eighty eight for cities in the New
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: England area, and she signed a contract with management firm
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: called Abby Shuffle and graw. I feel like my German
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: isn't My German is not the best, so polase forgive
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: me for that. She was on a tour of the
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: Caribbean and South America with a company of Black American
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: singers called the Tennessee Jubilee Singers.
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  Speaker 4: So this is she's.
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  Speaker 5: Still very young, but she's already doing a lot of
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: traveling with her singing career. And getting really invested involved
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: in it and working with a lot of different people.
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  Speaker 4: And it's unclear who was.
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: The very first person to call her this, but several
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: newspapers did refer to her as Black Patty, and those
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: newspapers said that her managers called her black Patty, which
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: I wasn't there, but to have my manager call me
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: by some weird personification of somebody else, I just feel
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: like that's very strange in practice. But apparently that's what
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: those newspapers said. This was a reference to Adelina Patti,
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: who was a really popular opera singer in the nineteenth century,
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: and they called Jones that.
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  Speaker 4: For the rest of her career.
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  Speaker 5: You'll see this referred to in articles about her and
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: in advertisements about the work that she was doing, her
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: being called the Black Patty, and she even referred to
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  Speaker 5: herself as that. But she did say that she didn't
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: care for the moniker. She said in the Detroit Evening
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  Speaker 5: News quote, I am afraid people will think I consider
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: myself the equal of Pati herself. I assure you I
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: do not think so. But I have a voice, and
• 13:11
  Speaker 5: I am striving to win the favor of the public
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  Speaker 5: by honest merit and hard work. Perhaps someday I may
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: be as great in my way, but that is a.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: Long way of head, a long way ahead. So she
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: was pretty gracious.
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: About that back then, even though she's commented on that
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: Moniker more later in life and was just like.
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: That's not for me.
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: I didn't put that on myself, but I got it.
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: But she seemed to accept it pretty gracefully, even though
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: we've talked about before on female First, my disdain for
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: this weird using these names to refer to somebody else
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: of a different race, to say you're of this race.
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: But yeah, so it was something that was attached to
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: her and that lasted and worked well for branding, so
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: we know how important that is. So some other critics
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: didn't care for the name, and that was for various reasons,
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: Like some of it was more from the direction that
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: she was coming from, like I don't need that, I
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: don't need this weird comparison to another race. But some
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: people also thought that she didn't measure up to Adelina
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: Patti or there was no need to draw those comparisons.
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: Or even that like she wasn't.
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: Black, so while we call her black, she's quote unquote
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  Speaker 5: Mulato some would say.
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  Speaker 3: So.
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: There are various reasons people thought this, but the black
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: Patti is one thing that people called her. So she
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: and her husband, along with the company, went to Jamaica
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: in August of eighteen eighty eight as the first stop
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: on their six month tour. They played in Panama, Barbados, Trinidad,
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: what was then British Guyana, Antiga, and Saint KITT's and
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: other places, and the audiences of these shows were mixed
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: when it came to race and reportedly the manager made
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: somewhere around four thousand dollars off of the tour. And
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: minstrel shows were a thing at this time. I'm associated
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: with blackface and this kind of silly performance on stage,
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: caricatures and things like that. But she did perform a
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: menstrel show sometimes. Her first was probably in eighteen eighty nine.
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: By that point her husband David was helping move her
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: career for a lot.
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: As her manager.
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: But yeah, so he will come up over the years
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: as being involved in the work that she did, booking
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: her shows, going with her on tours, although that relationship
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: did sour the personal relationship as well as that professional relationship,
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: and Cisiretta as part of another troop later went back
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: to the Caribbean and to South America, visiting places like Haiti, Cuba, Granada,
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: and Saint Thomas.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: But this time was a little bit different than the
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: other time.
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: Her husband and a black woman who was a former
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: newspaper reporter named Florence Williams managed the tour. Reports of
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: their shows overseas were sent back to the States and
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: that helped grow her reputation.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: And she talked about how she had gotten all.
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: Of these gifts from people around the world and the
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: countries that she visited. So this one thing that comes
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: up in her story a lot is a tear that
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: she got with diamonds in it. She got money, she
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: got gold, medals and various gems. And you can, although
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: we don't have recordings of her, everybody can go look
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: at pictures of her online. They do exist, many of them,
• 16:29
  Speaker 5: and they're really fun to look at because she looks
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: very grand. She looks very regal in a lot of
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: the pictures because she's wearing these long flowing gowns and
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: dramatic capes. And you can also see her wearing all
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: of her medals, which is it feels like the ultimate
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: flex to me. For her to put all of her
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: metals on her chest and take a picture like that.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: But it's just reflective of this part of her history.
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: That we're reading about and learning about and hearing like
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: she got all these metals, which can sound very like
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: we're trying to impressed a certain thing upon her biography
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: that wasn't necessarily there.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: But she really did.
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: Get these medals, and she showed that she got these medals,
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: and there's actual documentation that we can see today, so.
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: I think that's pretty cool.
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: But anyway, all of this happened by the time she
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: was in her early twenties, just her context, so she
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: was doing a lot and going a lot of places,
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: clearly working very hard. In eighteen ninety two, she sang
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: at the White House for President Benjamin Harrison, and she
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: reportedly sang at the White House for later presidents as well.
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: That same year, she was in an event called the
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: Grand Negro Jubilee at Madison Square Garden. It was in
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: a large venue, it has these mixed race audiences, and
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: she appeared as this prima donna in the show, and
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: she garnered a lot of us attention for it. She
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: later said about this appearance, quote I woke up famous
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: after singing at the Garden and didn't know it. So
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: this clearly was a pivotal point in her story, in
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: her becoming this little kind of larger than white figure
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: that she became. So in June, she and her husband
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: signed a contract with the manager named James B.
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: Pond. So that contract was supposed.
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: To be lucrative, paying her more than six thousand dollars
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: a year, which would be around two hundred thousand dollars today.
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: So that is obviously a large sum of money for
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: them and for today. And she was one of the
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: highest paid entertainers of her time black American of black Americans.
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: So that same month, she was featured as a soprano
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: in all black performance at Carnegie Hall. And there are
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: a lot of quotes about her voice.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: Obviously, we can can't hear it, and there's.
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: Only so much that we can get out of words
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: trying to represent what her voice sounded like. But a
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: lot of those quotes do tend to mention how great
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: her enunciation was.
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: Like even if those people.
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: Who were writing about her were hating on her and
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: didn't really care for her performance, they were like.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: Oh, her enunciation was really great.
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: And some of them would compare her voice to angels
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: and birds, which is an obvious comparison because the song
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: birds exist, so it makes sense. But yeah, so they
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: also mentioned her manner and speaking to people. They would
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: say things like she's very lovely and that she is
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: a good conversationalist. So apparently people did take pretty well
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: to her demeanor outside of the stage. But that makes
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: sense as well, because it's all fitting as part of
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: the work that she was doing in the demeanor that
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: she was expected to carry in front of these large
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: audiences at the time. And I can give you a quote,
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: for instance, about what one person said from the Saratoga
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: Union quote. There is neither brass in her notes nor
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: thickness in her phrasing. Her enunciation is also perfect. The
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: exquisite crispness with which she executes complicated skills and rapid
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: time delight at all with all. She thinks intelligently, without affectation,
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: and with much feeling. These newspaper articles talked about her
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: appearance as well, but often they had this air of
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: being surprised that she was actually great at her craft,
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: even though not every person who was a critic of
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: hers said that she.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: Was good at her craft.
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: Some people did say she has natural talent, but you know,
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: the craft ain't so much there she could do with
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: more professional schooling, more training and things like that.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: They would also do this.
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: Thing where they were like, oh wow, I wasn't necessarily
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: expecting that, I was just expecting hers, like as if
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: her race would proceed her the work that she was doing,
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: like it was the race was the reason that she
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: had this grand reputation that would precede her, and they
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: would do the same thing that a lot of media
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: does today with women and with black women, comparing her
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: to other female singers like Flora Batson, for instance. But
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: she was still well received in a lot of these places,
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: and she was making money and she was able to
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: support herself through her work that way and doing what
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: she loved in terms.
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: Of concert singing.
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: So her manager, James Pond, set her up to go
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: on a tour with a troop of white European musicians.
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: That meant that at the same time as they would
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: attract an audience who wanted to see white musicians, but
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: they would also choose to perform on stage with her,
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: which is something that some white musicians didn't want to
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: do white Americans particularly and under Pond she was mostly
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: performing for white audiences, which up until that point her
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: audiences were mostly black.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: So she's sang with a bunch of.
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: Different people, like it would be an exhaustive list to
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: go through all of the concerts that she did. Was
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: just so many over the years and with so many people.
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: But she would continue to do voice lessons for years.
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: She did them with Luisa Cappiani, who was a voice
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: teacher from Austria and lived in New York City. So
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: musician and composer will Marion Cook he wanted to put
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: on a black opera called Scenes from Uncle Tom's Cabin
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: at the Chicago World's Fair, which was also known as
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: the Colombian Exposition. Spoiler alert, that did not happen. That
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: performance didn't happen. Jones did sing one night at the
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: Exposition though.
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: Either way.
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: There was a benefit concert at Carnegie Music Hall and
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: cciretta headline that concert, which marked the first time that
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: black Americans played in the main hall at Carnegie, and
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: there was Cisciretta's first There wasn't much known commentary from
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: Ciiciretta on how she felt about the racial climate in
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: the United States. There was some she talked about in Europe,
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: how she felt like she didn't have to go through
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: and black people didn't go through as much there as
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: they did in the United States, and saying that there
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: wasn't as much racism there.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: She did comment on things like.
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: When how she thought it was unreasonable at these segregated
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: shows where black people would be confined to the gallery
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: and white people were able to sit in the orchestra,
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: even if that didn't really make sense because there were
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: all these seats in the orchestra in the gat while
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: the gallery was packed and they were having to turn
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: people away from that, and also along the way things
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: would happen even when they were on their tours outside
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: of the United States of where they had difficulties finding
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: hotels and getting turned around from hotels when she was
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: having a hot from place of place place and stay
• 24:01
  Speaker 5: in hotels along the way. But either way, David booked
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: concerts for her and Pawn booked concerts for her, and
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: at a certain point there was controversy over that because
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: when David booked some contract concerts for Ciciretta, Ponn said
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: that they had violated their contract, so he sued them,
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: and he even said that Ciciretta refused to sing the
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: concerts that he booked, and they had a bunch of
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: back and forth over that. There was a whole court
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: case with a lot of dealings, and Cicioretta wanted damages
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: of five thousand dollars saying that nobody had been abiding
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: by this contract that they had initially agreed to in
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: the first place, like that was basically Nolan void after
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: a certain point, and an initial ruling did go into
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: her favor her and David's favor, but then another one
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: right after that went into Pond's favor with a different judge,
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: and David couldn't book Sisi Reddit to sing at that
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: point and gigs could only be booked under Pond's management.
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: The judge basically deemed her ungrateful for all that Pond
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: had done for her hugely successful career, and yeah, so
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: there was this contention between her and her manager over
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: this point, and Pond did stop being her manager in
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: mid eighteen ninety four anyway, and Rudolph Vocal would soon
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: manage her for the rest of her career not long
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: after that. So her career continued to be successful, but
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: that was kind of a contentious split between her and
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: a person who seemingly did have play a huge role
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: in her growing into this large name that she was.
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: So that's pretty complicated, but yeah, she toured Europe for
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: most of eighteen ninety five. She went to places like Germany,
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: in England, France, and Italy, and at a certain point
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: she began appearing in more vaudeville shows. When she got
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: to the back to the US, there weren't as a
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: mini concert opportunities for her at this point, and this
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: enigma and mystery around Black Prima Donna's at that point
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: was kind of fading, but she moved into a career
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: as the star of the Black Pati Troubadours. Their shows
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: were a mix of comedy of vaudeville, opera and burlesque,
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: and they would sing quote unquote coon songs, which was
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: a thing at the time, and have all these skits
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: as part of this super long, hours long show, and
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: then Cicioretta would close them out with this grand operatic
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: performance and that lasted for a long time, a super
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: long time.
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: In eighteen ninety eight, I alluded.
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: To earlier she did file from for divorce from David,
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: saying that he neglected to support her.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: He was cruel to her.
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: And he had quote unquote continued drunkenness, and she wanted
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: her old last name back. She wanted to join her back,
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: and they granted her that, though she did continue to
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: use Jones in her stage name, and the Black Pati
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: Troubadours eventually changed their name to the Black Pati Musical
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: Comedy Company, but that didn't last too long and they
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: broke up in nineteen fifteen. She had a lot of
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: travels over her life and did a bunch of shows
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: while she was part of It would be impossible to
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: condense her story with the Troubadours into such a short
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: space because she did so many shows. A lot of
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: them were these one off nights. Sometimes she would do
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: week long engagements in places she went everywhere. She was
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: in San Francisco, she was in Atlanta, she was in
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: the Northeast, she was all of these places that she
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: would tour with them and got good reception, got different
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: positive and negative reviews in the press, and a lot
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: of deaths within the Troubadors because these were huge performances
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: with a lot of people in them, dozens of people.
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: So she was also surrounded by things like that drama
• 28:20
  Speaker 5: with people who wanted certain kinds of ownership and credit
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: over things that were happening in the show. And a
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: split between the managers who were over the Troubadours and
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: them going their own separate ways.
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: So all of.
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: Those things that you would expect with something involving so
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: many people. It is an artistic endeavor and happens in
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: so many different places. And mind you, is occurring while
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: all of these turbulent and like just really dramatic things
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: are happening in the United States and in the world.
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: Wars are happening, a lot of technological advancement like cars
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: being created, did planes, you know, all of these things
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: are happening while she is going through all of this.
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: So she did end up returning to Providence and taking
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: care of her mother after that split with the Troubadors.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: Her mother was sick. There was a.
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: Period when toward the end of her career with the
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: troube Doors when she got ill as well. After she
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: returned to Providence, she stopped performing on stage, and she
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: ended up selling a lot of her jewelry and property
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: to support herself.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: She died in nineteen thirty three.
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: And I think her story is very fascinating in terms
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: of what she was able to do at that time
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: and how much confidence she had. And I really wish
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: that I could hear her voice, just so I could
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: like hear what everyone else was hearing at the time.
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: And we're so pressed by and that so many people
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: had opinions about.
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: But it does feel.
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: Like her story is so bittersweet because she there's this
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: feeling of she didn't leave this world with much, but
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: that she left it with a lot. I don't know
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: her character personally, but from the way it's described, it
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: seems like at the end of her life, she was
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: the same as she was throughout the rest of her life.
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: And so she had this grand experience where she was
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: invited and welcomed by all these dignitaries and performed with
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: all these high falutin people and was in circles with
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: people who were notable when it came to abolition, so
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: some civil rights leaders, people like Paul Lawrence Dunbar, so
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: huge artist, so people who were super culturally.
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: Relevant and did a lot of things that we remember
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: them for.
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: But also all of the quote unquote normal people who
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: were in the audience and watching her and seeing her
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: rise to stardom and all of these things that she
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: was doing, and her being on all these trains and
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: being the star of the show. It seems like such
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: a glamorous life in such a difficult time. I just
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: have a lot of complicated feelings around it, because she
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: seemed to be characterized as this person at the end
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: of her life who was a lot more mellow and calmer, like,
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: keeping things a lot more low key at the end
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: of her life than she did before.
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: Like she was just the neighborhood.
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: Kids knew her and would come over, and artists would
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: visit her home and she would be in her garden,
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: and she was respected a little bit, well respected and
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: feared a little bit. But also the modest and economics
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: for the way that her money was at the time,
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: all the savings that she had burned through and having
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: to sell these things and make deals with people to
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: be able to four things and take care of her mother.
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: And she died not long after her mother died. Actually,
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: so yeah, it leads me with this very bittersweet feeling
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: of this life full of riches in so many ways
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: that didn't necessarily end in riches, but I'm hesitant to
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: say like she died in poverty, because she didn't die
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: in poverty. She lived a life of wealth in so
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: many ways that are more than just the tangible ways
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: that are related to her monetary things, her belongings and
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: the things that you know, one could put their hands
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: on and say that that has a certain value, Like
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: her life definitely had value outside of those things.
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: And you know that's why I like, I.
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: Am grateful to be able to share her story and
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: share so many of these stories. But a headstone wasn't
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: put on her unmarked grave until twenty eighteen. And yeah,
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: like Annie said earlier, there are no known recordings of
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: her singing and people, are you still hopeful that that
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: will one day because even though there was a black
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: Pati record label, she didn't really have anything to do
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: with that. Yeah, but that's her story and I'm happy
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: to share it.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: We're happy as always that you brought it to us
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: and you did all this work and you put it
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: together in such a great way, because it is it's
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: an amazing, amazing story.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: And there's so much, like you said, like.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: This is a condensed thing, but there's so much that
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: she did that was fascinating, and it's like hard to
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I kept finding all these other rabbit holes I want
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: to go down, like, oh, I want to hear more
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: about this. I learn more about this in her life
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: and all of her accomplishments. And then I don't know,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: when I was reading it, I'm glad you put you
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: have you shared your conflicting feelings around it, because I
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: was like, wow, she was buried in an unmarked grave
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: after all of this, and it was twenty eighteen.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I think it was a go fundme campaign.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: It took that long when she did have this big
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: of an impact and people did know her. That just
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: sort of like have have to have those people fighting
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: for you to still be remembered and still be heard.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: And I'm glad, as I said at the top, I'm
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: glad people have been doing that for a long time
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: and continue to do so. And I am very happy again,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Eves that you you shared that story, and now our
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: listeners maybe can share that story.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: And because it's one worth being told.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: Right, maybe someone can find a recording. I'm thinking maybe
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: somewhere in Europe. Yes, it's a hidden recording of her
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: Grand tour now that.
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: Has to be discovered.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: The HBO mini series you keep bringing up it would
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: be the search for the lost recording.
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: I love it at the beginning.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I would love it too, because that was I was like, oh,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: I can't wait to hear your voice.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: You can't find it anywhere.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: It was like, no, that's even more haunted. Joke, it
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: really is.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: I know that's one of the biographers, like that's the
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: one wish that they had, and yeah, that's so haunting
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: to know that this amazing performance is out there. That
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: was a showstopper. Literally, people were just odd and would
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: sit there for hours to listen to this and we
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: can't hear it.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: It's like it's all of that that goodness of hearing
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: her voice has to be confined to that time, even
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: though thousands of people.
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: Heard her voice.
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: It's like, we'll never get to but sometimes, well hopefully
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: we will, but right now it's.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Maybe one person out there. Kind of also takes the
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: lesson of taking people for granted and not realizing the
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: legend that is happening at that point in time, not
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: realizing that and not recognizing what.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: She was doing, which is just doing something that she.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: Loved and was really, really, really well trained at and
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: good at and talented in and did a lot of
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: work to be in that field. And it makes me
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: said that we don't get to hear that. But at
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: the same time it sounds like, yeah, you know some
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: of the treatment as a conflict as you have, and
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: like seeing glad to see that she continued to thrive
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: as in I guess I'm thinking in being able to
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: be in her own privacy and to do what she
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: needed to do. But at the same time, all of
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: the harshness that she had to deal with, especially in
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: the United States, you know, it's like, yeah, we did
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: this to ourselves, so we punished, Like we're punished because
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: we couldn't recognize how amazing this was. And then those
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: the evils behind, which is kind of familiar today of
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: like the recording industry. Yeah, that's kind of like comes
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: back to play and you're like, yeah, this is what
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: happens when things like this are neglected.
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: I guess she does feel.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: Icky to think about.
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: Another place in which a lot of these conflicting feelings
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: come up for me is and how much she worked
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: and up to I think it was around forty five
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: weeks out of the year she would be on tour
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: with these troubadours, night after night after night after night,
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: you know, using her physical body. Another part of this
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: is that this was a very it's singing, but it's
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: a very physical thing that from her moving from one
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: place to the other, you know, imagining the amount of
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: sleep that she was able to get, you know.
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: How she had to maintain her health.
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: But at the same time, her health was so taxed
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: because of the work that she did, and just thinking
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: about how many years of consistent grind that she had
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: to go through, and also so much of the loss
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: that she was having to deal with when it came
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: to her, her children, her siblings, her mother who not
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: long before her, And it feels like a lot of
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: weight for one person. But at the same time, she
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: had so much beauty in her life as well. That
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: offered another narrative, you know, beyond the tragedy in her life.
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: But I just think about that too in terms of
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: sus so anomalous for the time as a black woman
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: who achieved the kind of success that she did in
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: concert singing, even though she never did opera, because we
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: didn't really touch on that, but opera was and it
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: can be such a very white space, and she didn't
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: have access to that in many ways. But yeah, and
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: how much she had to grind and push herself to
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: these kinds of limits.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: During that time.
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: It just I think about that in terms of what
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: people do today and what musicians than artists do today
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: as well.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, a lot of sacrifices were made, for sure.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Whenever we get to that, because I feel like we've
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: been talking a lot about celebrity and the fast too.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Whenever we do that one about privacy and celebrity and
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: kind of the demands on artists and the entitlement we
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: feel a lot of times around. Artists can talk on
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: this talking some more. Yes, thank you, e Well, it
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: was a pleasure as always to have you. Thank you
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: so much for coming on. Where can the good listeners
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: find you?
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Eves?
• 39:37
  Speaker 5: Y'all can find me on Instagram at not Apologizing, I'm
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: on Twitter at Eve's Jeffcoat, or you can just go
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: to my website Evesjeffcoat dot com and get the links
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: to all of those things.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, and you should do that if you haven't done
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: it already. You can also find her on this very show,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: which are always excellent segments. Oh yes, this thing I
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: am doing currently, Yes, Yes, yes, Yes, and listeners. If
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: you would like to reach out to us, you can
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: or emails Stuff Media mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcasts
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: or on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: as always to our sup producer Christina. Thank you Christina,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: You is the production of iHeartRadio. More podcasts from iHeartRadio,
• 40:22
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• 40:24
  Speaker 2: regul listen to your favorite shows