Latest / Carne Cruda Podcast / Derroteros: La Nieve, con Santiago Alba Rico (CARNE CRUDA EXTRA)

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Derroteros: La Nieve, con Santiago Alba Rico (CARNE CRUDA EXTRA) · Carne Cruda Podcast

0:05
Goodbye goes equally course. Stick it well, road in the middle direction taken
0:12
to reach the proposed end set of data that indicate the way to get to
0:17
a good place that we are leaving, direction that is given in writing.
0:20
For German Old Mary, it will be a good end of the book containing
0:25
a defeatous. Then line marked on the tidal map to guide the pilots in
0:29
rota ru de rotero, stop rotero, two courses think walking with Santiago Albarico
0:42
Hi santi How about, how are you, what? Good morning, Javier
0:49
Alegra. Much to hear, then, as always delighted to greet you and
0:55
with a crazy desire to end the week with these courses in which you take
1:00
us by the words. Today I think we have the letter n Yes we
1:04
have the letter L and I think I will hardly need to justify it because
1:11
I chose the word we' re going to talk about, which is the
1:15
word snow. There are no others that I like very much we cloud or
1:19
ships or nest or knot or crisp or nut, but I think that finally
1:26
snow is a word that imposes itself. Yes, it is imposed perhaps,
1:32
I say, by the sweetness that has its sound, that almost sounds with
1:38
that deaf burst that the snow has when it falls. It does, of
1:45
course, or it doesn' t sound. We' re not gonna make
1:48
another hour of this. Perhaps in one of the greatest mysteries and sources of
1:53
happiness produced by snow is this fact that it does not let us out.
2:00
In any case, well, if we start as always by etymology, it
2:04
must be said that in this case it almost comes from itself, because it
2:07
will be that it has a Latin word nyx Medith that you will not be
2:14
surprised if I tell you that in Latin it meant snow and if you go
2:20
back to the root in European India, which is something like the bayer,
2:25
because it also wanted to decide snow, that is, that snow rises itself
2:30
and comes from itself. And I think that it is important to be so
2:37
and in other languages, in others ours, because we have a Catalan new
2:44
in Galicia is said snow and in Basque it is a very nice word and
2:47
I am not normally a European Indo. And it is the urray that produces
2:51
a certain chill, that they seek more than any other the idea of cold,
2:57
which is very beautiful also and you, why you have chosen in nil
3:00
that I don' t know if I just find out well, because look
3:04
in any case, also in relation to our last conversation, that you will
3:09
remember that we dedicate to miracles, to the idea of miracle, because as
3:15
we follow, you remember always talking and thinking about of course what we have
3:16
said. For there I kept thinking of this suspension of the principle of causality
3:23
that introduces Gacel in the 15th century long before Hyum and I set that example
3:30
of whether it rains the earth is wet and said, of course, the
3:36
rain is the cause of the humidity, and Algacel said this of how well,
3:40
it is only because so God wanted it. It was the result of
3:46
the free will dirina on the one hand, it rained on the other hand,
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the soil was obeyed. It was God who freely linked the cause and
3:57
defect of such metal. We could say that all that happens is a lookout.
4:00
But let us say that for those who believe in the laws of nature
4:03
and not in God, the surprising or miraculous thing would be that it rained
4:09
and the ground remained. Dry So I thought that happens sometime, it can
4:16
happen. It has happened and suddenly the realization that in many countries of the
4:21
world and once also in Spain and of course, in the mountains, because
4:28
it always happens very often in winter that if it does not shine and the
4:35
soil does not get wet, it is that it is going white and that
4:41
miracles we call snow. And well, I think this idea of the miracle
4:46
that escaped us a little the other day, which has to do with love,
4:51
on the one hand, and with beauty, on the other, to
4:56
what it is referring to. Well, then, look at this. So
5:02
you ask her what snow is like. I' d say it brings these
5:09
characteristics together, I' d say it' s white, it' s
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dry, it' s silent, it' s peaceful, it' s
5:18
clean, it' s plural and it' s unbiased. It' s
5:20
this mystery that I' m telling you about. Of course, of course,
5:25
if you take only four flakes immediately to the ground, it is wet.
5:30
But if that happens, which is called guaja, when the snow turns,
5:34
because somehow it becomes another surface that overlaps with that of the earth,
5:39
through which you can walk, that hardens. And somehow, because the snow
5:45
dries the dry snow and it is a miracle with a rainfall, for it
5:50
is dry And besides, somehow I know that in a particular way the earth
5:56
and then it is white. And because it' s white, I don
6:05
' t know about being because of some phenomenon that has to do with the
6:09
refraction of light, with the fact that snowflakes don' t absorb, they
6:14
absorb light and return it. As it is. It' s completely white,
6:17
even if it seems to us to be caramelized at times. But I
6:20
think the question isn' t that and it' s not so much why
6:24
snow is white, but white chris, white javier. To me this,
6:27
apparently I' m going to transpital to see it is not that the snow
6:31
is white, it' s that if you can say something that is white,
6:38
it' s because there is snow. It' s our white reference.
6:40
You remember, of course, this school platoon is a bit of a
6:44
manual that is easy, but more or less recognizable by everyone, for it
6:48
said that the things of the sublunar world are only to go pale, reflections
6:54
or opaque copies of the ideas of intelligible, intelligible who, therefore, the
7:00
world of ideas, because they are also intangible invisible and, moreover, immeasurable,
7:06
materially immeasurable. Among those three ideas we have spoken other times such as
7:14
good, truth and beauty. And of course, we can say that according
7:18
to this platoon here in banal manual, we could say that nothing in the
7:23
world is as good as the idea of good and that nothing is as true
7:28
as the idea of truth and that nothing is as beautiful as the idea of
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beauty. Well, I don' t know if you realize it, because
7:36
it turns out that snow, if it' s as white as the idea
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of whiteness. Yeah, and that' s what happens with this one,
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with this color, that is, when what falls out of the sky,
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when it denies, it' s kind of like the very idea of whiteness,
7:56
but no, but black doesn' t. For example, you black.
7:57
You can say that something that' s black, like the pumpkin,
8:01
I don' t know, like crow' s wing or like the night
8:03
itself. No. But the zabache, the crow' s wing and the
8:07
night are not as black as the idea of black. Neither does the red
8:11
one. Uh, no, I don' t think the blood, the
8:15
poppies or the red carnations are as red as the idea of red. I
8:20
' d tell you even more. Neither revolution is ever as red as the
8:24
idea as the idea of red. And, on the other hand, all
8:28
white things can be compared to snow. That, on the other hand,
8:33
snow cannot be compared to itself. Same is the term if you want all
8:37
comparisons, but she in turn can' t compare to anything. So,
8:41
it' s an idea, it' s not an idea that falls into
8:46
the sky. It is materialized and part of our happiness, I believe,
8:50
before the snow its course all when we are children that I believe that always
8:54
and until the end of our life, when it begins at least to raise,
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it has to do with the fact that it is the only occasion in
9:01
which we can touch and see and feel an idea, that idea about which
9:09
all white things are white, because the concluding milk links some feathers. Those
9:16
are just approaches to the depository snow, the idea of white, the idea
9:24
of whiteness, of course, is falling white from the sky. He'
9:30
s seeing white from the sky and that' s why he only admits,
9:33
if you want to politically, every so much play in the snow, as
9:39
we know, but he only admits synesthesias and oxymoron I mean, he only
9:48
allows the contradictory combination of contradictory sensations or even total and complete contradictions. For
9:50
example, there is a black light in a poem by Alberti and I remember
9:54
very nice ofÁngeles González, the very short Asturian poet who said it was
10:01
not a dream I saw the burning snow. I was talking about twilight in
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a snowy landscape. Either think of that neuda verse that says the snow will
10:13
burn my heart, or it is another one of Lopez that says the carnation
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that between the snow burned to refer to the blush on the cheeks of a
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very pale and very beautiful lover, because then the beauty empre was identified with
10:31
paleness and whiteness. Well, that can be played with sinesthephy or with loxfiporon,
10:37
but always from the principle that precisely snow is the term of any comparison,
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the strong term of comparisons, because it is a material idea also edged
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before it can be, I think remember, impartial and peaceful, because you
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say it. Yeah, well, look at me This is also a Pessoa
10:58
verse. I don' t know if Alberto Caeido' s or which of
11:05
his heteronyms or if it' s Persoa himself, but there' s a
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time when he says about himself. The poet says that I am impartial as
11:15
snow, And it is true because the snow falls from the sky equally over
11:24
all courses of the earth and as it is very silent, in some way
11:30
peaces the mood, appeases the control that rain. No, the snow doesn
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' t make the blonde and the noise. The noise of the rain can
11:37
be very beautiful, it is almost pianistic repiquete on the roofs, but the
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snow, the snow, somehow erases all the sounds. But delete also notice.
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That' s why I' d say she' s not just impartial,
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but peacemaker. It also erases the borders I imagined to be a kind
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of casquisian bridge in which the two released to one side and another a border
12:03
post, look with distrust, wielding their weapon and suddenly begins to snow It
12:09
carries abundantly and snows and snows? And fog and snow? And even their
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uniforms are covered with snow. And from or the fields, on one side
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and on the other side of the barbed wire is covered, covered with snow.
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In countries, the differences between countries, caps, snow and those soldiers
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whose uniforms are no longer distinguished because they are both white, as they see
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in some way in the snow country. What a beautiful thing you just said.
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I' ve never thought about it, that it' s true that
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snow can erase any separation line and any distance. And that' s why
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I think it' s exactly the opposite of bombs. I know that in
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these courses, even when one tries to make lyrical and always school us the
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bombs, when we talked about the rain, the bombs slipped in. Just
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obviously, when we talked about barbarism a few years ago I wondered what the
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opposite of a bomb was. There is. All these things that leave no
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trace measurable, as the caresses or true or certain words. He said that
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the problem with looking for an antonym of the bomb is that the antonyms of
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the bombs leave no visible victims, because their effects are immeasurable. In bar
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look at the snow, it can be measured, because it is a materialized
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idea in such a way that the opposite of a bomb. I' d
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say it' s precisely the snow. In short, all those things that
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fall from the sky, but there are not many more that fall from the
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ice, producing that happiness. Metaphorically, yes, when something happens to you
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that you didn' t expect and of course, in relation to love,
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when suddenly, because I don' t know, you have a use of
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chapto and you fall in love with a man, a hate, a woman,
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because you have the feeling of the loving object and even the affection you
14:05
feel towards him. It' s falling things, falling from heaven to refer
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to you is a miracle, something I didn' t expect, but it
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' s true that there is something else. It' s completely personal to
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me. I' d just compare the snow to a beech forest. These
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are things you want totally against intuitive, something that falls from the sky makes
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you as happy as snow. It' s the found ones. You'
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re telling me they don' t spring from the ground, but they fall
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from the sky and fall on their feet exactly. You once walked through a
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beech forest. One day we have to make a dog breeder in a beech
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forest, for example, in the jungle of Iraq and in Navarre some prodigious
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beech trees, one of the most beautiful beech trees in Europe. And the
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beech trees do not arise from the ground, they do not fall from the
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sky, in crowds gently, without making noise. Then you get the feeling
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that I don' t appreciate you falling as you walk between them. And
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that' s why it' s so beautiful to walk in a forest.
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It is a beech forest, it is a forest of nothing somber that does
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not inspire terror, it inspires this magical feeling of being walking on the beach.
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And I also think I remember another goal that you have applied to snow
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and that has caught my attention because I didn' t understand why it is
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that snow is plural, of course, look. Yes, because it is
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tural, as it should be, the bread, that abundance, notice that
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we speak of a copious snow, the rain is torrential, yes, but
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the amateurs, when they last are copious and copious has a copy of the
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Latin that means abundance, eh, for example, cornucopia, the horn of
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abundance, because a copious high is almost a redundancy. If a high is
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a snowfall, it really has to be copious, it has to be abundant.
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And, in fact, I believe that in some way, these words,
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which are very few, which are materialized ideas, are always related to
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this millennial dream of humanity that has to do with abundance, step with bread.
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I believe that snow and bread are the only materialized ideas that can be
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named and noticed. Thinking of this abundance, for he thought of this famous
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biblical passage of manna fallen from heaven and feed the Hebrews on their flight from
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slavery in Egypt for forty years, their god feeds them through manna. As
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a child, this manna I always imagined, I identified it entirely with snow.
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It is not known whether it fell before or after the dew. The
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Hebrews picked him up in the morning and kept him. Nor is it well
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known which was his fufador. There is a passage from the Talmud that says
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that he knew what those who ate him wanted. But the truth is that
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the manas place one identifies it with the abundance fallen from the sky and I,
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of course, in the images that I keep of this child, because
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this idea of snow, mbaná and snow the snow is something like a big
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or bread gaff, it is very low on the world. We see the
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crumbs fall on the ground and I think that there is a saying that gathers
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this idea very well, that I do not know if it has a real
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reflection or is only a poetic metaphorical connection, that says year of snows,
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year of goods, therefore, the idea of the snow of mouth immediately abundance
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and it is also blame the bread dismigrated on that of a god orbing there
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in the sky, eating copiously like a snowy one and as it goes cutting
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the bread the crumbs that fall from the fall, it comes to us in
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the form of snow, because I wanted to suggest that image that I am
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very happy that you have also expressed and you also said that the snow is
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clean, clean and pure for care is that, like the opposite of a
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bomb, to the snow, I would say that the opposite of cleaning is
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purity. I remember that the book is that fourteen words for after capitalism,
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for after capitalism. Busy in a chapter of the word purity, he invented
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a tale of a false saint polygartius could not overcome all temptations, lust,
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wealth, pride, power. But when he had defeated them, they were
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all there naked and along with his column, as he suddenly realized with horror
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that he had yielded. The worst of temptations is the temptation of purity,
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because purity, we know, is dangerous, because one does not conform to
19:15
being pure, but because they do not get a pure cacer of the whole
19:19
ends up wanting others to be pure. Purity wants to be imposed on everyone.
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It is like the other side of impartiality, of snow, this tyranny
19:30
from which it seeks to purify the world as a whole. And then the
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world becomes puritan and becomes tyrannical and fanatical. Purity is fanatical and the opposite
19:44
of cleanliness has nothing more to do with what Kafka said to Gustav Hanus at
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the end of his life, Mira said. The point is that the world
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is very big and very complex and we have to look at it for a
20:03
very small peephole. And, therefore, you have to keep that milidia clean.
20:07
Keeping that mill clean has to do with the effort to remove the legañas,
20:11
the ideological legañas, the biases and the biases that sometimes form our gaze,
20:15
but it also has to do with letting the beauty of the world enter
20:19
our eyes. And, therefore, the snow is clean. The snow is
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clean, that is, as this double face has a centaurs. Done is
20:37
idea and matter. It' s a materialized idea, an idealized matter,
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because let' s say as an idea it' s pure. Well,
20:44
it' s all the ideas, and in this case, it' s
20:48
been very exploited in that direction. The rigorism, Mallarmé' s poem,
20:52
of herocies that live in the fright, that gave him his hair, without
21:00
caresses, without contact with anyone and finished with this sentence of you that you
21:07
die that you burn of chastity, night in white of tempane and cruel snow
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the snows are cruel And it is idea. If it is purity, it
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is cruel, it demands sacrifices and good. I think we need to accept
21:22
two things. It must be placed between two points, between self- complacency,
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purity, which is always puritan and tyrannical, and self- complacency in
21:34
impurity, in evil, which produce many crimes. And we' re a
21:38
little bit in these moments of history, moving between the two points. We
21:42
have left in the middle, because all the elementary colors and we have remained
21:48
with the self- complacency published and fanatical, fundamentalist, religious or not.
21:57
And, on the other hand, self- complexity felt evil is absolute cynicism
22:03
of me. Yesterday I was listening to the Israeli ambassador talk about the children
22:12
killed by their bombs and regret the death of those children and I found the
22:19
evil self- complacencial. Throughout history, the complacency of evil has produced many,
22:22
many victims and we have to stay a bit in the way. We
22:26
live in a polluted world, in an impure world, in a world where
22:30
we must constantly be fighting for cleanliness, but at the same time fighting against
22:36
the idea of purity. So, if she' s not pure but clean,
22:42
she looks sober to me. Sobriety like this, unless sobriety we always
22:48
identify it with more dull colors, with grays or with barrons, with more
22:56
circumspect colors. But, well, we can say it' s obvious.
22:59
Again, yes, that imposes austerity the snow and the life in the snow
23:04
is hard, it is demanding and thinking about this fate, I thought just
23:10
how suddenly these dreams of purity are always narrated in the form of ascension,
23:18
of astension to the highest, to the clouds or to God. Finally,
23:23
that mystical ascension. But even on earth there is an ascent as we go
23:29
up and up, we go up more and more snow and the snow is
23:33
less and less compatible with survival. I' d say purity is incompatible with
23:38
survival. And I thought concretely it was in two different works that for me
23:45
I have liked very much, one very recent to speak immediately and another that
23:48
for me was a classic of the narrative of the 20th century, of one
23:55
of the great narrators together with john Ford, for me of the 20th century,
24:00
who is George Remi, better known as Erge and better known for the
24:04
character that I think is Tintin sometimes that is a mode of my favorite characters,
24:11
unfortunately very misunderstood from the left and that, well, then, he
24:15
wrote in one thousand nine hundred sixty one that for me is his best works,
24:21
which is ting have in Tiget Te. You remember that Tintin who is
24:23
going to seek carried by a categorical imperative to his Chinese friend Chang, who
24:30
has dreamed that he is alive after having been victim of an aviation accident.
24:36
There, the Jess is based on a famous accident on the mont Blank of
24:41
an Indian plane in nine hundred and fifty. He was inspired by this accident
24:47
in which there were no survivors and what Hergé actually counts is his own experience
24:52
with purity. He was a very Catholic man, he was separating himself from
24:56
his wife at the time, because they knew in love of another he was
25:00
having a very bad time, doing a psychoanalysis and began to dream everything blank.
25:06
Everything I dreamed of was white and only white. I dreamt of the
25:10
white color. And then he started drawing this graphic story a little bit to
25:15
free himself, even though the psychoanalyst warned her that it was impossible, that
25:21
it was a lost battle. And well, look at it got through his
25:23
wonderful story in which, besides that he really saves Chain, it' s
25:29
not tintin, but a beast that they call mythological beast, which is called
25:36
the jetti. For through the writing and design of that graphic story, he
25:42
freed himself from his desire for purity that he was not tainted and thus managed
25:49
not only to separate himself in a very benign and healthy way from his wife,
25:56
but to allow himself to love another, another woman. But what exactly
26:00
describes this ascension is the ascension to a territory in which, as you go
26:07
up life, it becomes more and more and more difficult, incompatible with life
26:11
to the point that the survivors of that accident both the real and the fictitious,
26:18
for I say there are no survivors except the chan decision. And there
26:27
' s another recent work, also inspired by a traffic accident of nineteen hundred
26:33
and seventy- two, the film by Juan Antonio Bayona, The Society of
26:37
Snow, which I don' t know if you' ve seen it.
26:40
Yes, yes, the life of boredom. Yes, and I quite liked
26:41
his epú because of the approach of this tragedy that left a little aside,
26:45
the morbid anthropophagy in his previous versions was more present and makes a lot of
26:52
emphasis, and this was pointed out by Pedro Vallin in one of these interesting
26:56
families are about cinema and about films, for he pointed out that really what
27:02
allows the survival of all these young people who are very young not only the
27:07
fact that, being young, they are already stronger, but that they all
27:12
somehow knew each other. They arrived there in conditions where solidarity, which was
27:22
easier to put in the other' s place, was easier. And it
27:26
is very interesting to think to what extent neoliberal anthropology or, better done,
27:33
the dissolution of anthropological ties induced by neoliberalism, consumption and new technologies put us
27:38
in very bad condition to survive a catastrophe. Somehow, we accelerated the catastrophe
27:48
by eroding the subjective conditions that would allow us to survive it eventually, and
27:56
I think that in this film it is very well reflected as how salvation is
28:02
solidarity, but solidarity has budgets, they have conditions that are not precisely in
28:08
which it is somehow building the world in which we live. Quite the opposite.
28:17
And in that sense, it is very interesting that it is called precisely
28:21
society and that in the title add the snow, since you are talking about
28:25
it and what it means in fact, it breaks with purity when certain acts
28:29
are committed that are considered impure, because above it is the cleansing of their
28:34
relationship and the importance of solidarity between them. Very well seen, Javier,
28:40
I think you' ve summed it up a lot better than you' ve
28:42
done. Me. Yeah, yeah, that' s exactly it. And
28:45
besides, this is the snow society, because it is something like this,
28:48
as there is also a contradiction, not to say, there is a society
28:53
in childhood, because these people show that yes and prove it as you go
28:57
very well said, violating rules of purity, anthropological purity, carrus very settled
29:06
in human imaginations to save it to cleanliness and finally, thanks to that life.
29:15
Yes, because, in fact, purity, as you very well explained,
29:18
I had not fallen into it. I' m telling you, too.
29:23
He looks at me for cleaning, that is, it' s almost
29:27
what destroys each other. Purity ends with cleanliness, of course, yes,
29:30
I think it includes being a bit harsh. Purity is dirty, purity you
29:36
don' t feel like getting too close to total purity until it smells bad.
29:42
That is purity. Purity whether it is those who invoke racial purity or
29:47
ideological purity or religious purity. They actually live in spaces so closed that they
29:55
' re even unbreathable, and that' s why I' m saying that
30:02
in effect cleanings exactly the opposite of purity. Speaking of summits, of course,
30:06
one of the milestones that a man can, a human being, can
30:11
put in his life is to reach the highest summit to reach the most inaccessible
30:15
snows. And I' m thinking about tourism, in the Himalayas that there
30:21
' s no, I think, activity that destroys snow cleaning more than those
30:26
totally, because besides, it' s directly linked to what we were saying.
30:33
It is precisely, on the one hand, the experience contrary to that
30:37
of a categorical imperative of cleanliness and solidarity and, moreover, it has a
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brutal ecological cost. That snow tourism that begins the fifties we do when we
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write their n in Tibet. It' s just that moment and it also
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somehow does it for this when you start conquering the first eight zeros. I
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believe that the LEBRC that is conquered in fifty- three, also the Nanga
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Paarmat of the Ka two in fifty- four and others in fifty- five
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and up to fifty- eight, the g the four not good. In
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those moments via let' s say that there is something, there is like
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individual overcoming, of search, of individual purity, but somehow anticipates what is
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happening already, those things that we have seen in the Everest, with one
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hundred and fifty people a day waiting to crown, to crown the summit.
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And what is there is above all a kind of narcissistic cannibalism, not narcissistic
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consumer Talibanism, whose harmful effects are also in anthropological terms for humanity, because
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in the end, precisely tourism is contrary to all those mechanisms of solidarity that
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allowed the survivors of the accident of one thousand nine hundred seventy- two to
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survive, and then, Javier, I would say, there are no things
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that we should impose on ourselves not to touch for precisely reasons of cleanliness and
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beauty. It' s the bottom of the sea. You don' t
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have to touch it. It has to remain there as a mystery, a
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saving mystery, because much of the natural climate renewal is made from those of
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the seabed. And another thing you don' t have to touch, I
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think, is the perpetual snowcaps. They have to remain as objects unattainable to
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the gaze and touched by the human being. Purity should only be attainable with
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the gaze and in the distance, in these tents covered by unbiased and peaceful
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joy. But let us not try to touch it, to touch everything,
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we must repress certain temptations One is that of purity and another is that of
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defiling purity by taking one' s own narcissism to the top of reberes.
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Yes, any case, I would distinguish from that craving for human exploration of
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certain individuals, very different from the exploration of mass invasion. Of course there
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is also a beautiful book by Pablo Batalla about mountaineering, to which he makes
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a defense. I would say from the left, precisely this adventure, the
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adventure of climbing on the mountain. Of course they are two forms, they
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are very different forms, to the point that in reality we have spoken other
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times how different is the adventure of tourism to the adventure of the migrant,
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of the migrant that although it is accompanied by people to whom it does not
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know, since they undertake solitary adventure and it culminates, It culminates in solo
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and then is mistreated alone when it arrives in the countries and so called of
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welcome. And I think that, in fact, there our tradition is rather
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and not bad at all. It must be defended, also to admire,
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on the one hand, because some collective adventures that we have called revolutions and,
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on the other hand, will make you look at some individual adventures such
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as that of odysseus that of Ulysses and others. And of course, let
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' s say tourists and they' re revolutionaries and they' re not heroes
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like Ulysses. And there' s some hero like Ulysses in this world.
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Right now, they are precisely those who come through true is as well the
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contrast, the counterpoint of the snow to live an individual adventure that transforms their
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life and that also wants to rise to transform the lives of other people.
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Well, it' s also, the crucial difference is that the explorer wants
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to know and the invader doesn' t know yes and also not know in
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a very particular way, because what he wants is the opposite of the explorer,
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who with that living the Lippia, what you want to let into the
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world. The tourist wants it barrel and put his footprint in the world that
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you see him in the world, is given to him stepping on the top
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of Duty. This or in front of the pyramids of Egypt or the Paghmajal,
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he what matters. I think this is what is at stake right now,
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taking sides in the world, taking sides for ourselves and here the battle
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is twofold. I insist it' s controlled.