Latest / The BSB Podcast / Exclusive Interview: Andrew Papa and Gavin Rapuzzi from UofD Mercy's 'The Grown Ups'

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Exclusive Interview: Andrew Papa and Gavin Rapuzzi from UofD Mercy's 'The Grown Ups' · The BSB Podcast

• 0:00
  Thank you so much for joining me today, Andrew and Gavin.
• 0:02
  How are we doing?
• 0:02
  I'm doing pretty alright, doing pretty alright.
• 0:04
  How about yourself?
• 0:05
  well.
• 0:05
  We're going into Tech Week this weekend.
• 0:07
  So looking forward to that.
• 0:09
  ha!
• 0:10
  That's so exciting.
• 0:11
  Yeah, because you're currently in the rehearsal process.
• 0:13
  Andrew, that's going well?
• 0:15
  It is.
• 0:16
  It's really going well.
• 0:17
  We had our first spacing rehearsal last night, so we were rehearsing in a studio and it was our first night doing a run through in the actual space at the Marlene Ball Theater
• 0:27
  downtown.
• 0:29
  it went great.
• 0:30
  I mean, I was talking to the tech crew.
• 0:31
  Obviously, you know, there's cobwebs and things to work out, but they were pleased with it and I was too.
• 0:37
  And the actors did some good stuff.
• 0:39
  So I think it's going to be a fun show.
• 0:42
  Gavin, what's it like kind of going from the rehearsal room to being on the stage for first time and kind testing that out?
• 0:50
  So yeah, like Papa was saying, is the first, yesterday was the first time that we actually got to, you know, rehearse in the space and it was a completely different feeling,
• 1:02
  honestly.
• 1:03
  we had the bones of it definitely, but I just feel it came to life so much better.
• 1:11
  And, you know, everyone was a lot more connected.
• 1:14
  It just seemed like a camp, you know?
• 1:18
  Sitting around the campfire.
• 1:20
  Andrew, I'm going begin with you.
• 1:21
  So what's kind of the story of The Grown-Ups mean, this I've seen this before.
• 1:25
  There was another recent production recently, and it's a really awesome story.
• 1:28
  But for those who don't know kind of what is it about?
• 1:31
  So it's one of those shows that the plot is hard to describe in too much detail without giving everything away.
• 1:38
  the way I like to structure it is kind of how we start off.
• 1:43
  Right.
• 1:43
  So we start off with a group of camp counselors.
• 1:46
  You know it's a phone free camp and you know these camp counselors are you know in their 20s roughly and just love love.
• 1:55
  They grew up at the camp.
• 1:57
  So you're hearing stories about when they used to be campers there and just the
• 2:01
  Comradery and the community that comes from from camp and everything seems to be going great.
• 2:07
  You know, there's foibles and you know, some of the counselors are, you some like each other.
• 2:12
  Some are maybe a little more flirty with each other and some maybe don't like each other as much.
• 2:16
  All those lovely dramas.
• 2:19
  And it's really kind of light and fun in that sense.
• 2:21
  And then something happens in the outside world outside of camp that at first seems ridiculous.
• 2:28
  Like, isn't this crazy?
• 2:30
  And then
• 2:31
  all of a sudden things start happening in the outside world and things start kind of crumbling, institutions start toppling, and they, as the camp counselors, have to
• 2:41
  determine how are we going to tell the kids?
• 2:44
  Do we tell the kids?
• 2:46
  So the way I've been describing it is it's a dark satire.
• 2:50
  So there are parts of it that are funny, particularly in the first few scenes, and then things kind of pivot in a really interesting direction.
• 2:57
  And it's very prescient to our times.
• 3:01
  right now, a lot of uncertainty and a lot of thinking on our heels and it's really exciting.
• 3:07
  I was going to say when I saw the last production of it, it's kind of, there's like a level of realistic horror to it because it's something we're living through right now.
• 3:15
  And it starts kind of light and exciting and just, you know, it reminded you so much of camp, going to camp as a child.
• 3:22
  But then you're hit with the reality of what it takes to be a grownup in a world that's kind of falling apart.
• 3:28
  in a world where everybody else has decided they don't want to be grown up.
• 3:30
  So you've got to take it on yourself.
• 3:32
  I mean, that's kind of where our counselors, where the story ends up going.
• 3:36
  And it really kind of fits the trajectory of a campfire story.
• 3:40
  So like when you think of what makes a really great campfire spooky story, you know, when you hear, when you think of a campfire spooky story, very rarely is it demons and monsters
• 3:50
  and body gore or it's, it's things that could happen.
• 3:56
  So that sense of like these things actually could happen, that's what makes it scary.
• 4:02
  And in a way, that's kind of the trajectory of what our counselors are put through.
• 4:06
  Yeah.
• 4:07
  And so Gavin, you're playing Lucas.
• 4:11
  Who is he and kind of how does he factor into the overall narrative of the show?
• 4:17
  So Lucas is one of the other camp counselors.
• 4:20
  There's five in total.
• 4:22
  He's generally more laid back.
• 4:25
  He's very nonchalant about things, just kind of goes with the flow.
• 4:30
  And throughout the course of this story, his biggest focus is fairness, making sure that everyone's doing what's right for them.
• 4:38
  And trying to contextualize it.
• 4:42
  when faced with the reality of society collapsing, it's very much
• 4:49
  It's very interesting to get the opportunity to explore these sort of emotions with this character.
• 4:58
  He goes through a lot, you know?
• 4:59
  I mean, all of them do, but like, there's a lot of, there is a lot of growing up in this play in such a short time.
• 5:07
  Yeah, most definitely it's...
• 5:10
  Yeah.
• 5:12
  So Gavin, what drew you to the story?
• 5:14
  What decided, like, what made this one that you're like, I want to be a part of this production?
• 5:20
  So as you both were explaining, know, it is a very timely piece.
• 5:25
  you know, on top of being a theater student, I'm also a political science student.
• 5:29
  So I've been going through and I find so many parallels to the sort of climate that we're living in right now.
• 5:37
  And it has been one of my favorite experiences getting to sort of pick apart and find connections.
• 5:47
  to the different characters and how they relate to actual actors within real life.
• 5:53
  Yeah, it's just been a, yeah, it's a fascinating experience.
• 6:00
  And for you, Andrew, why did they feel like this was the right time to tell this story?
• 6:05
  So it's funny, know, as any theater person who's ever had to secure rights for a show knows, you secure rights for shows months and months and months ahead of time.
• 6:16
  And so when we came across this script, we thought to ourselves, you know, the world is at this precipice where it could go any direction.
• 6:25
  could get, things could get more extreme.
• 6:28
  Things could level off.
• 6:29
  And there's just no, there was no knowing, but there was definitely the sense that no matter when we do this
• 6:35
  I feel like there's going to be something timely in it and it it just so happens and I'm not saying that I'm glad the world is the You know, I'm not saying that but I think the
• 6:47
  play will resonate that much more given so much of the uncertainty of where we are right now and so we picked it knowing that Knowing that things could fluctuate but that
• 6:59
  regardless of how things fluctuated There would still be a sense that this is a piece that I think people are
• 7:05
  to really really connect to and and and see see aspects of certainly magnifications in some ways I mean all great theater magnifies the truth in some way but it in doing so we
• 7:17
  get to see the truth in in different lights and I think that's that's what's really powerful about this piece.
• 7:24
  Absolutely.
• 7:24
  And you know, you're right.
• 7:26
  You don't always think about that from like our side, the audience's side of like this decision was made to put on this production months or years ahead of time.
• 7:35
  But it does still line up with kind of where we're at.
• 7:40
  not only you guys, fortune tellers, but Andrew as well, how do you translate?
• 7:46
  Like you have an image in your head, obviously, as you're kind of working through the script and you're kind of choosing actors and you're set, you know, you're working with
• 7:52
  set designers and stuff.
• 7:53
  How do you translate the image that's in your head to the stage?
• 7:56
  Like, what's your process for that?
• 7:59
  So the first you one of the first things that I do when I read a script is I I start visually right.
• 8:07
  I think to myself OK what is the layout of this.
• 8:09
  You know how do we create this world that that the script is sort of is implying through the tone of it.
• 8:17
  And the first thing that came to mind and it was funny that that I thought this and then my scenic designer told me later when I first read the script I said I've never directed
• 8:26
  in the round before but this has
• 8:29
  to be done in the round.
• 8:30
  because it's it's the campfire and the audience.
• 8:34
  I said the audience needs to be sitting in the round because it creates that campfire.
• 8:40
  Right.
• 8:41
  When you're telling a campfire tale, you sit in a circle.
• 8:44
  You don't sit on one side of the fire and the storytellers on the other side.
• 8:48
  You're in a circle.
• 8:49
  There's that there's that equilibrium.
• 8:51
  Right.
• 8:52
  And so that was the first thing I said to my scenic designer.
• 8:55
  And and he said, well, it's funny you should say that, because when the play was originally staged,
• 9:00
  It was on the heels of the pandemic and it was staged outside in the right.
• 9:06
  Like it was literally staged around a real campfire.
• 9:09
  And so I said, well, clearly I'm on to something.
• 9:13
  If that was the original intent.
• 9:15
  So I try to think visually first and then it's from that sort of visualizing how I sort of see bodies in space that I begin to plug in.
• 9:25
  Okay.
• 9:26
  Who is this character?
• 9:27
  What, what are the idiosyncrasies of this character?
• 9:30
  what makes them unique.
• 9:32
  And it's been really fun because the way that the characters are described, there's a lot of parallels.
• 9:39
  So it'll say like, Lucas is a counselor in his 20s who's psyched to be here.
• 9:44
  Becca is a counselor in her 20s, and she's super psyched to be here.
• 9:48
  Maeve is a counselor in her 20s, and she's super super so it you know, it can feel very similar.
• 9:55
  So it's really picking out what are the things about each character that I feel like are the distinct features of each.
• 10:00
  And then really in those cold readings and auditions, seeing where I feel like even if an actor isn't quite matching exactly with how I'm visualizing it, I see that potential and I
• 10:12
  see that capacity for growth because that's the thing about what we do is we're kind of this hybrid company.
• 10:19
  We're mostly students, but we bring in professional guest artists.
• 10:22
  And so as an educator, I'm not just looking for I need to fit an exact role.
• 10:28
  I'm looking for potential so that
• 10:30
  I can help the student grow in their craft.
• 10:32
  So it's kind of that dual purpose in casting in those beginning stages.
• 10:37
  I mean, that's really exciting probably as an educator, being able to see that potential and then be like, how do I help that person grow?
• 10:44
  Exactly, yeah, and that's what makes, to me, that's what makes it all worth it.
• 10:49
  I'm not belittling those who work exclusively in the professional world.
• 10:53
  That's its own beast.
• 10:54
  are own complexities that we don't have to navigate, but that's, me, that's the root of what I love to do is I love to see the journey that a student can make from that first
• 11:06
  table read all the way to dress rehearsals is really exciting.
• 11:10
  I was going say when I spoke with Joe Bailey for the Glass Menagerie, he had mentioned the difference between working with in like a university setting versus like a community or
• 11:20
  professional setting.
• 11:21
  And he said it has its own challenges and one of them being working with students and having, have, you know, not that other people don't have lives, but they have classes and
• 11:29
  they have, they have other assignments.
• 11:31
  And so working with them and then helping them also build that craft.
• 11:34
  He said it was more rewarding in a way to be able to experience that, but also there was more challenges with that too.
• 11:40
  There absolutely is.
• 11:42
  so it can create, sometimes, discord with, OK, what are the things based on time?
• 11:48
  What are the things that I think they might have the potential for this?
• 11:52
  But maybe I pull back a little bit, or maybe I give them room to grow rather than feeling I need to dive in.
• 11:57
  So finding those different tugs and pulls, to me, that's what makes it exciting.
• 12:03
  So Gavin, with you, you you have your script, you have your character, but how do you translate Lucas from a page to the stage?
• 12:11
  Like, what's your process in doing that?
• 12:12
  So, yeah, it was really interesting, especially with it being such a close and personal show.
• 12:23
  The biggest, I guess, challenge that I knew that I was going to have to face with this character was making him feel like an actual person, know, embodying him as an actual
• 12:36
  person throughout almost 90 minutes on stage.
• 12:41
  And, you know, first and foremost, getting the lines down.
• 12:45
  Memorization, that was one of the first things we tackled.
• 12:49
  But then after that, it was a lot of character work.
• 12:53
  was a lot of really looking down, because I think one of the things about the characters is a lot of them can be played in sort of caricatures, or, you know, like it can get very,
• 13:09
  I mean...
• 13:11
  for lack of better phrasing campy.
• 13:16
  so trying to find this, I was like, it's the only thing that's coming to mind right now.
• 13:24
  But no, we did a lot of work just sort of connecting with one another and finding meaning behind a lot of the things that we're talking about, finding meaning behind a lot of
• 13:36
  things we're saying.
• 13:37
  Like I know Lucas has
• 13:41
  few freak outs throughout the show.
• 13:43
  And it might be confusing to some people, but he's coming from a place of actual, you know, like these are, you know, justified emotions.
• 13:54
  And so really working to find that justification that that's been one of the most rewarding processes so far.
• 14:03
  You know, I, one of things I love about this play is, my day job is a psychologist.
• 14:09
  So getting to see how everyone responds because this, again, I see this eight times a day, every single day.
• 14:17
  And you're right.
• 14:18
  Lucas does have a very like, I mean, they all have very realistic responses to what's happening, but he's very much grounded in like the, how do you balance that fear and
• 14:26
  anxiety with trying to also be an adult?
• 14:28
  And so that is probably really hard to kind of, you know,
• 14:31
  find it and portray that, mean, while things are also happening in our own world.
• 14:37
  Yeah, yeah, it's definitely a really interesting endeavor, especially because the way that the story starts out, you know, it's just another year at camp.
• 14:48
  So we think we still have that opportunity to be kids.
• 14:52
  And now we're, you know, presented with the reality.
• 14:55
  You know, it's getting the chance to really, you know, stare fear directly in the face and say, all right, you know, this is our situation.
• 15:06
  how we're gonna tackle it.
• 15:08
  Absolutely.
• 15:09
  Going back to you, Andrew, you kind of mentioned it, but I, you know, having talked about it from the other production and also my research, this was a produced for outside kind of
• 15:19
  the end of COVID.
• 15:21
  And you'd mentioned doing it in the round, but how else do you feel like, like, how do you translate that to a, to an actual theater?
• 15:27
  Like what are some challenges with that?
• 15:30
  Well, I would, I mean, it's been.
• 15:33
  challenges but also opportunities.
• 15:36
  I think one of the things that we've had a lot of fun navigating with our scenic designer and tech director, Alan Devlin, has been how do we create a semblance of the outside
• 15:49
  indoors?
• 15:50
  And so we did a lot of really interesting stuff and with our lighting designer, we've got these really interesting overhangs that kind of hang over the stage and then when we bring
• 16:00
  the lights through them, they create these really interesting effects
• 16:26
  So, thank
• 16:29
  I think that that, it's not just creating a mood,
• 16:33
  But it's, think, the tone of the play, that there is a semblance of what's lurking in the dark.
• 16:41
  What could, you know, the sort of potentiality of those things is really valid.
• 16:46
  And so we're doing a lot of really interesting stuff with lights to create that aesthetic.
• 16:52
  I was talking with Seth, our lighting designer, about just creating like really slow fades throughout certain scenes so that we get that sense of like it going from sort of, the
• 17:03
  campers
• 17:03
  have just fallen asleep to it becoming sort of darker at night, which scenes happen deeper in the night where we can really play with those blues and those purples and then
• 17:16
  obviously the sort of aesthetic of the fire kind of always burning.
• 17:21
  what that does.
• 17:23
  So it's been fun translating it.
• 17:25
  And I would say they've been challenges, but really more.
• 17:30
  I hate to sound cheesy about this.
• 17:31
  They've been opportunities to go, OK, what do we think?
• 17:36
  How could we navigate this?
• 17:39
  And I think it's been really an exciting process.
• 17:41
  And it really emphasizes for me that this is a collaborative art that I can I can look at my tech director, scenic designer, and I can look at my lighting designer and go,
• 17:51
  this is the idea, what's possible?
• 17:55
  And they can go, well, we could try this.
• 17:57
  And I might go, eh, what else?
• 17:59
  And they'll go, well, we could try that.
• 18:00
  And I'll go, ooh, let's try that.
• 18:02
  And we just bounce back and forth.
• 18:05
  And sometimes they'll even give me things and say, have you thought about this?
• 18:08
  And I'll go, no, I haven't thought about that.
• 18:10
  so that ability to work together, I think, is helping in that regard.
• 18:16
  When it comes to some of those choices with the lighting or like you said, the different scene design, are there times that you try something and it just doesn't work and you're
• 18:25
  like, okay, we have to find a different way of translating that then?
• 18:28
  So when I first staged it, when I first, so the way that I usually, I know that some directors, you know, hate the idea of pre-blocking and I get that.
• 18:38
  And I'm also someone who doesn't like directors who just go, I don't know, figure it out.
• 18:43
  So I kind of operate somewhere in the middle.
• 18:46
  I kind of started with my actors.
• 18:48
  just said, do whatever you want for, I call it a walkthrough.
• 18:51
  And I sort of see what they bring into it.
• 18:55
  And then I'll note like, ah, that's working really well.
• 18:58
  or I'll go, that's creating some traffic problems.
• 19:01
  And then I take what they've created and then I sort of create like a loose frame around that.
• 19:07
  And the first time I had somebody come in and watch our first, you know, actual like run through of it, one of the first things someone said is they go, you're playing the corners
• 19:17
  really well, you know, this is working really well, this, that and the other.
• 19:20
  then they also said, Andrew, they're sitting down like a lot.
• 19:24
  And I went, yeah, they kind of are.
• 19:27
  So I thought, okay, it needs
• 19:28
  to move too.
• 19:30
  And I talked to a friend of mine who...
• 19:34
  used to work a lot at Tipping Point Theater who had done work in the round.
• 19:37
  And he said, yeah, my two biggest pieces of advice are play the corners and get them moving.
• 19:42
  So we started finding different ways of integrating that part of it as well.
• 19:47
  And I've been really excited because every once in a while an actor, I'll give a piece of movement, know, a piece of staging to an actor and I'll say, how does that feel?
• 19:56
  And if they go, oh, that felt much better than I know it worked.
• 19:59
  But if they go, yeah, I didn't like this, I'll go, great, you didn't like it.
• 20:03
  Love that.
• 20:04
  Let's try something else.
• 20:05
  Or maybe we do need to go back to what we had and just see what else is possible.
• 20:10
  That's fantastic.
• 20:12
  For Gavin, how has this role challenged you as an
• 20:18
  For me, going back to finding the motivation and justification by lot of his emotion, I found a lot of aspects of his character resonating with me, but there was also that
• 20:39
  challenge of really trying to embody his physicality.
• 20:45
  Because while he is a lot more, you know, chilled and laid back, he's all about fun.
• 20:51
  He wants to make it an enjoyable experience.
• 20:55
  he'll tell some stories about his interactions with some of his campers.
• 21:00
  And you know, he'll actually like embody the, you know, these little kids, you know.
• 21:06
  And so adding that physicality to him really, I think, made his character a lot more dynamic.
• 21:15
  I think it made it more Lucas, and less Gavin
• 21:21
  Absolutely.
• 21:23
  And for you, Gavin, what themes from the show do you feel like resonate the most with you?
• 21:27
  I the thing that resonates the most with me about this show is this feeling of hopelessness.
• 21:37
  Or this, I should say.
• 21:40
  this feeling of hopefulness in a world that is very hopeless.
• 21:48
  You know, there's a lot of the dialogue centers around, know, we're doing things the way we've always done them and that's not working.
• 21:58
  But we can be better.
• 22:00
  And sort of that overarching message of working to be better, I think that was something that I really connected with.
• 22:09
  You know, I love that you said that because, know, granted I'm only in my thirties, but watching, when I watched it the last time, was blown away with that inspiration of like
• 22:18
  the younger generation is going to be the one that's going to come up and kind of have those new ideas that like, that so many generations beforehand have continued to do the
• 22:27
  same old same old, because that's exactly what we've always done.
• 22:30
  But it takes somebody looking at a situation differently and granted.
• 22:35
  these campers are at camp and they are removed from it so they can maybe see it a little less objectively.
• 22:41
  But there is a lot of hope in that, of being able to approach it differently.
• 22:45
  And that is one of the inspiring aspects of the show.
• 22:49
  Andrew, how about for you?
• 22:50
  What themes stand out to you about the show?
• 22:52
  I know you've got to follow Gavin now, and that was such a perfect answer.
• 22:55
  it really was it really was You know, I i'll say this is a really strange comparison But it's one that I feel like has been resonating a lot Hopefully with the actors.
• 23:07
  I certainly Gavin and a few of our others have said I know what you mean around this is For those who are fans of the walking dead, right?
• 23:15
  So much of what makes the the walking dead so
• 23:21
  the themes so universal and so prescient is that it's not just about, I mean, yes, we all love a good zombie scene.
• 23:28
  We all love a good zombie attack, blah, blah.
• 23:30
  But any of those actors that you hear interviewed, when they talk about their characters, they go, it's that sense of hope and that sense beyond not just hope, but also community
• 23:43
  and how communities are developed and how a sense of home is developed that, you know, we associate home so often
• 23:51
  with physical spaces, structures and infrastructures, and doing things as you've always done them, and that type of thing.
• 24:01
  But the people in the walk, they kind of have to become nomads.
• 24:06
  They kind of, if they've set up camps somewhere and then something happens and they need to move, they know that home is each other.
• 24:15
  and that they can't escape, you know, they can't escape, you know, the world as it is, but they can huddle together, they can, you know, they can...
• 24:26
  They can work together.
• 24:27
  They can create a sense of togetherness that inevitably can get them through anything.
• 24:34
  so that's where we kind of, know, that's kind of the sort of the relationships that end up developing as a result of what's going on in the outside world is they realize that sense
• 24:45
  of home is each other and that that sense of comfort and structure comes from working together, not against each other.
• 24:52
  And just as important as it is today is community is kind of what carries us, you know, and the family we make along the way and the family that we have too, but just that's all
• 25:02
  part of community and we need that more now than ever.
• 25:05
  Absolutely.
• 25:07
  Thank you so much, Andrew and Gavin, for your time today.
• 25:10
  I greatly appreciate talking to both of you.
• 25:15
  You're so welcome.
• 25:18
  The Grown Ups runs from April 4th through the 13th, so get your tickets now from University of Detroit Mercy's theater company's page.
• 25:25
  And we'll see you there.