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Neurodiversity and The ROR: Return On Relationships with Cynthia Milani · Authentic Living

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  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
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  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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  Hi, everyone.
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  It's Roxanne Durgesh.
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  Thanks again for tuning in, to authentic living with Roxanne.
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  So today I have a special guest that I think, focuses on an area that I think most of us are
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  learning to understand a bit more.
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  Neurodiversity.
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  So today, I have Cynthia Milani, and Cynthia is, with a neurodiversity institute, and she'll
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  give you the formal name.
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  That much more where she works, at really enhancing or I would see raising the knowledge
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  of people about the whole spectrum of newer neurodiversity.
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  So, Cynthia, thanks so much for coming on today.
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  It's a great pleasure to be with you.
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  So let's, you know, Cynthia and I met in, we were very privileged to both, be working, we
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  went to a conference, where, I was able to speak and I was also able to listen Cynthia
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  speak on the the issue of neurodiversity.
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  Let's talk about kind of your path like what made you pick this course of, or space to, work
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  with neurodiversity, Cynthia.
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  Well, you know, it's a it's a good question.
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  And, of course, it is a few that is just emerging Roxanne, but, just to give a little
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  bit of background on that, It is, I start actually I became interested in brain science
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  very early on.
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  And that's really been a calling for me when I was maybe 10, 12, and people would say, you
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  know, what do you wanna be when you grow up?
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  It wasn't maybe your usual, you know, fireman baker or whatever, I wanted to be a brain
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  surgeon.
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  And that always I was fascinated.
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  It was I just knew it's what I wanted to do because I wanted to understand how the brain
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  works.
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  Well, obviously, I didn't come, come, searching, but I think I dissected almost every
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  day in my studies.
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  And what got the laugh was, and something I don't often share is is that it was because I
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  had a a instilled you ADHD attention deficit disorder.
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  And as a result, I was one of the worst students.
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  The one that was con considered the slow one in the class.
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  The one that just couldn't quite make it through high school.
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  That changed schools a couple of times bounced around the usual story.
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  And then, after like many people with ADHD taking on different things, whether it was
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  Vista, preschool, all kinds of little project, I still couldn't make it in school.
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  Well, I was very lucky because Columbia University had has a program, which is called
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  general studies, and they, invite students who did fall through the who never made it.
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  And, I was one of those students that was chosen based on the different things that I had
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  done.
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  And I was so thrilled to be there.
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  I had never read a book by the time I had arrived.
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  I couldn't I had dyslexia.
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  I had as many people do with, that are neurodiverse you have a whole hodgepodge of
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  different things.
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  And I went from not having read that book, and what we didn't realize then was that the the,
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  you know, the neural cortex was beginning to come together so that I could actually begin to
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  concentrate and take information in and I managed to wiz through in, you know, less than
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  3 years with honors and only to say when it begins to happen for you, it is the most
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  thrilling thing in the world.
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  So I went in from there.
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  I went into, I I studied neuroanthropology, which is called biological value.
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  And I was very interested in, in witchcraft and I traveled throughout Africa and was so amazed
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  by what the brain could do.
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  It fit in with the things that I had already begun to understood about the power of the
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  brain and and, and what we could do when we change those narrow pathways.
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  And at that time, I was working under Margaret Mead, and she had a program that she that would
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  be appropriate for the brand new biofeedback that was being done by NIH, the National
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  Institute of Health.
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  So that took me into that, and that's where I really began to understand the power of the
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  mind when it was applied in a medical situation, which it had been in a loved
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  witchcraft as well, but it was, still what people believed, and they were using a lot of
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  place, placebo they were beginning to hook people up and let us begin to control our own
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  selves.
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  So it was a very exciting field.
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  And that's the one I stayed with for, a while until I sort of jumped a bit and went into the
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  other side of anthropology, which is culture So I worked in 50 different countries, with
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  companies that in all aspects of business trainings, and saw the entire gamut of it and
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  was able to put things in by bits, but it wasn't until about 10 years ago that we began
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  to really start to have a field and, get something that was actually thought had a term
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  for it.
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  And that was Judy Singer, and she came up with the term of their diversity to to use as a part
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  of inclusion as, what to say this group of people needs to be included.
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  We've got 8 a billion people on the planet, 18% are considered neurodiverse.
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  We know every brain is different.
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  I was seeing differences in culture, so I can certainly add to that.
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  And, that has what has brought me to today, and I do a lot of my training around inclusion and
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  and bias and really trying to get those, work with companies like some of my clients have
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  been SAP and IBM and and you look at different companies that are really proactive about about
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  using and realizing that, that this is a not a curse for people.
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  This is rather an asset to be definitely used by companies.
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  So let's let's back up a little bit.
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  I'm I'm thinking, you know, obviously, your intellectual capacity was there, and you didn't
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  not till you got to Columbia, were you able to collate it in a way that a loved society to
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  recognize that there was this intellectual capacity.
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  What was it like for you as a child?
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  Did you, you know, because we're talking about, you know, going back quite a while.
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  How did the people in your life or even the the school systems prior to Columbia deal with the
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  fact that you, had ADD ADHD.
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  And at that point, did they know that that was what you were dealing with?
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  Well and, you know, as you can see by some of this gray hair, this was really before as much
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  as Sandra Sugar about it today.
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  So I'll give you 2 stores.
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  It was awful.
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  It was really awful Roxanne because I was just considered myself and the world did the the the
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  dumb one in the class.
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  And, I also had dyslexia and that was not picked up.
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  I just kept saying this is so weird.
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  I look at things and they go to the front and they go to the back and you know, I just can't
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  be worried with this.
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  And so I was just ignored and passed over, really, and some of the questions that I asked
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  were a re rather disconcerting, like a lot of ADHD.
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  They asked questions that other people aren't asking.
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  And, in in fact, I remember when, one teacher, I think I was in about the 3rd grade, and the
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  fact that she said, boy, we're really gonna hear from you someday.
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  We've got one leader in our class, and, means No one has ever picked that up.
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  And I came up later, and I said, why why would you even think that?
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  I'm I'm so dumb.
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  She said, no.
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  It's the questions you ask.
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  And that's what's so important about people who are neurodiverseies.
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  They do ask different kinds of questions.
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  They do think out of the box.
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  They do think differently, and they're hearing things.
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  And as Richard Branson said, a, who also has ADHD as well as some other good things.
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  He said that, growing up, it was similar for him, and he the he realized he was either gonna
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  end up in prison or, you know, on a on a doing hand labor or something, or he also began to
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  get out of the system and really question it.
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  So At that time, it was very difficult for for anyone going through the school system.
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  So I knew that one could have a lot of different ways that that one learns to do to to
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  counter this.
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  You want a good agenda.
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  Me being ADHD, I don't have a good agenda.
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  But then I got one that I thought was a little bit better, so I'd use that one.
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  And then I got a third one that I thought, well, I really liked the way I can lay at, and
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  this one's in crunch, and this one's I have 5.
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  You know, I had to throw them all away and say, no.
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  Who want agenda?
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  Who want agendas?
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  So, We learn to control ourselves and hopefully add, these new perspectives along the way.
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  So let's back up because I'm very, very curious.
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  You said something about that you listen in a different way.
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  So for the average person that doesn't understand what that means, can you try to
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  explain that in simple terms about when you said people like, you know, your teacher said,
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  brilliant, so you are in some way taking in information and giving it back out to the world
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  in a different way.
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  So how to explain that process?
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  Cause I'm I'm fascinated by this because, there are so many people around us that probably have
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  this gift but we're not in fact seeing it as a gift.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  So, you know, I mean, the pro I'm sorry.
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  The process that you're looking you would you would like me to go into further Roxanne is?
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  It's how you listen differently because you are, in this case, talking about ADD or maybe
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  other di neurodiversity.
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  I think of it as almost like, this is my assumption, and you clarified if I'm completely
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  wrong, which I've often wrong, is that you are collating information in a different way based
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  on what part of the brain that's being triggered potentially.
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  So tell me about that process.
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  Yeah.
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  Okay.
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  Well, it is different with every single, different type of neuro diversity that you get.
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  There's a different reason.
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  There's something different that's going on.
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  Could be a hormone that could be the dopamine.
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  So for instance, with the ADHD brain, what happens is is is that you have the prefrontal
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  cortex will actually crash down.
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  And so it just can't take any information, and it has some to do with the, dopamine gets put
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  out very quickly.
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  And but it if you probably know dopamine, it's why we call it, of course, dope.
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  We talk about dope is is that you constantly need more And so that is where that brings in
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  the hyperactivity.
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  And you have to differentiate between ADD and ADHD.
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  ADHD has a hyperactivity in it, and it is on it's always on a spectrum.
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  So it depends on how you know, how much you have or or don't have.
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  But that's what's happening is that dopamine crashes down.
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  And when it does, then it goes, well, I need that other agenda.
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  Or Let me see what's going on over here, or what's going on out out the window.
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  And that gets that dopamine going again, so I know that you can go back.
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  So that's a little bit the process that is happening to to there.
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  But one thing to differentiate is when we talk about neurodiversity, is that there are so many
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  different, different types.
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  So it depends on, you know, which which one you're looking at.
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  It could be us burger, you know, it's always considered on the on the, usually on the, on
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  the artistic spend, the autistic spender spectrum, And so you're looking at anything
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  from a, you know, the ADHD, the asperger's, dyslexia, there's a a disc which is movement.
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  There's Dyskocchio, which is the numbers.
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  You can have a little bit of that.
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  Words, OCD.
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  Obsessive, control disorder, and then there is Tourette Syndrome, which is what we've
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  overheard.
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  Somebody just speak out all of a sudden suddenly swear and switch their heads.
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  Well, sometimes it's hard to get past those movements and take them pretty seriously that
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  they're actually very good at what they do accounting or in, you know, in manufacturing,
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  whatever.
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  So So
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  there's so there's definitely a, obviously, when we look at the spectrum, there is a lot
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  of, diversity, even within the di neurodiversity.
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  So people that are not aware, and if you've never had to potentially interface because
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  you're not knowing that.
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  I would say that most people are ill equipped on how to intervene with people.
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  That might be new drivers.
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  Yeah.
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  And so we have our labels, and this is stuff that is still new, Roxanne.
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  We're still working on it.
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  And, you know, there are so you know, and people are just beginning to step up and say,
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  this is me.
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  I think an example, a wonderful one is Elon Musk, Sometimes everyone, the the person a lot
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  of people like to dislike.
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  But if you understand us, brokers, as he says, you know, somebody I said on Saturday night
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  live, someone who sends you're walking up to space is not, gonna be your normal guy.
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  And in fact, that's one of the profiles that is pretty rough on the kids as well.
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  Happens a lot to to divorce, but it can be both, but these are the kids who really like to
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  like like Elon Musk typical.
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  He wanted to he was fascinated in certain things.
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  He studied them all of the, more than going out and then playing with other children.
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  He has whirled around 1 or 2 things that he he wanted to learn, and then he'd go on to the
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  next one and the extra.
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  And those kids often get bullied.
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  They get beat up.
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  And, you're often hear of that because they're different and children pick that up.
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  And they don't play the same way.
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  They also this goes back again to how important the hormones is.
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  They oftentimes don't have the dopamine and they don't have of the, they don't have the
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  excuse me, the oxytocin.
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  So they can't they if you don't have oxytocin, you don't have empathy, it's harder to find it.
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  You have to ask questions differently.
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  So somebody with asperger's, they have to learn.
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  That's part of the training they need to go through is what kinds of questions to ask
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  people because they we're familiar with mirror neurons.
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  The mirror neuron is a neuron that basically allows us to mimic people to pick it up.
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  I smile, and you're probably smiling even over there while I see your photographs.
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  That's when
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  you're not.
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  But if you have, you're not gonna smile, you don't, and you just don't have it.
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  You're gonna look pretty grim.
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  Because that particular piece is missing.
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  Now with all of this, I'm giving you examples.
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  It's not the science behind it.
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  I mean, you'd have to look at each one the difference we have now and what has totally
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  changed this field is with the FMRI, the magnetic resonating We can see all this.
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  And I just am fascinated by looking at my brain go off in all these ways because I know that it
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  looks slightly different.
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  But do you know something as that as an anthropologist or an anthropologist, we can do
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  the same thing for Chinese Asians, Americans, Europeans, we can now light up in their brains
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  as well.
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  So there's other kinds of neurodiversity that are not necessarily included in this autistic
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  spectrum that we speak a lot about.
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  But for each of those, there's a different kind of job that's important to do.
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  And where companies come in is they'd miss the Bodian, is so many of them I mean, we had, 18%
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  unemployment among the neurodiverse And yet, these number of jobs in IT were skyrocketing.
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  People would go when companies would go to look for something, they would look at what's good
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  leadership, and it's about putting people together and communication skills, and this
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  kind of dynamism that they don't have.
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  However, they are very, very good at asking the questions no one has asked.
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  I'm thinking differently, I'm seeing patterns that others don't see.
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  And that's one of the the things is they can opt and see that they can make connections and
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  precisely the because their neural pathways are not hooked up in the same way.
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  So, you know, it's it's a it's an important feel for people to be for for HR to begin to
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  look at how they hire people, how they interview them, maybe they want an interview
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  that is is not on paper, but rather a trial will be much more effective than it will be the
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  in person ones.
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  So that's that's fascinating, you know, because if you think about it and we think about your
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  mirror neurons to your point, We're kind of gauging how someone is able to connect and,
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  whether we're gonna proceed along the spectrum of connection.
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  Right?
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  And if if people, it's not that like you said, you'd lose use Elon or anybody else.
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  Like, you think of, like, people like they say, like, Mozarts and things like that, I more than
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  likely on the spectrum potentially closer to the spectrum of us workers.
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  So I believe they are so one pointed, like you said, to 1 or 2 things that they become
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  phenomenally, good in those areas.
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  But most of us, I would say, and myself included, you know, there's a curiosity with a
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  lot of things.
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  So we we we kind of, you know, disperse our our our attention to so many things versus kind of
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  maybe focusing on 1 or 2 things.
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  So in a way, the brain is diametrically kind of at different positions, So, hence, the, like,
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  what you're saying is someone that is able to focus in on just one or 2 things, they are
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  going so deep potentially compared to see a brain that, you know, is kind of taking
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  everything.
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  So that's I love that description because that I think, wow, you know, if you think of, people
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  that really, really excel, right, to a skill.
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  They already have to work at doing just one thing, and they may not be wired that way as
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  well.
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  Absolutely.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  It's it's interesting.
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  And now, you know, in more places, I think that's what I'm fascinated by because how we
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  quit our manager's leaders and supervisors to deal with people that maybe they they got
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  through the engagement and the, you know, the onboarding potentially, but then they start to
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  work with them and they don't know what to do.
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  So that's the part that I'd love to see what what the institute does with your with, getting
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  involved with companies.
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  Yeah.
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  And and this is kind of thing that we can do is to be able to bring to them.
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  First of all, it's the general understanding, but it's kind of like saying, I mean, the
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  Leadership Institute we do, you know, it's basically good leadership as well.
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  So it's almost like saying, well, now let's take everything that was just done and do the
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  opposite.
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  When you're working with these particular people, we wanted different skills, but not
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  everybody needs to be a manager, not everybody needs to be a meter And when these people are
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  very, very good at what they do, which is probably vis a vis the computer on a on a much
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  smaller basis, we can take it to, for instance, with the observers.
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  You have a lot of brilliant people that they want teaching.
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  But, you know, something Roxanne, they're not the greatest of teachers because they don't
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  have, you know, it's it's like there's they seem to be communicating with the blackboard.
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  And, that's not their skill.
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  But a lot of times what company what, even educational things are saying, well, this is
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  interesting, but maybe rather than being here, this person actually not teaching about it
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  needs to be in the lab.
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  You put, you know, Jonathan in the in the in the the classroom and they wanna throw erasers
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  at him and you put him in a lab, he can absolutely come up with cell biology that
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  we're, you know, where does that come from, that what is that understanding?
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  But it's that understanding of new reach of being able to see patterns We have somebody
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  like, if you there's actually a movie done on her temple grade, and and she has appsburgers,
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  but you can't say appsburgers.
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  And she said, it's Spectrum.
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  And so she has a little bit of autism, a little bit of COVID.
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  And but she is typical of those who can actually see things in, they put things
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  together in the air.
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  If you've ever seen a good doctor, he does that.
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  There are all these are pictures that come up And that's what it is.
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  It actually exists.
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  And she was able to do brilliant things.
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  In this case, she started with, patterns for cattle to be run-in totally different ways so
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  that they had a lot less of the testosterone.
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  Other things in their body, it made a huge change on what we'd on on our table today.
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  And that's because she could see the pattern.
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  So, again, you know, it's it's having these people do, Look for things that the normal
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  brain, quite frankly, probably can't do.
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  So, It's just exciting to be able to see the company's zoo, but we can so we need to train
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  the leaders to look for a different leadership to maybe not press that individual to go up the
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  new the normal train.
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  We all have our ladder against the the wall.
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  Right?
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  Well, no.
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  A lot of these people don't, but who are we talking about here?
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  It's such a huge field.
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  I mean, if you look at the list of of, kind of who is in, who is you have, of course, leading
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  them, something, you know, somebody like Bill Gates.
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  And Bill Gates has been a pictured hold with every one of them.
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  There are pieces about of, autism there.
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  There's pieces of the asperger's.
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  There's pieces that are not one or the other.
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  But without that, and you want to answer me the question, what is the cost?
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  Without that, we probably wouldn't have Microsoft.
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  Who knows with, you know, with Steve Jobs, with a lot of the really brilliant ones, even
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  Einstein, we can't call him autistic.
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  He didn't speak until he was 4 or 5, and that's rather typical.
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  But once he did, the rest is history.
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  So, you know, and some of that was his asperger's.
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  Maybe some of that was his wife helping.
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  We have all kinds of stories behind that.
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  But we know that with 800,000,000,000 people on the planet, the one thing that is certain is
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  that every one of those 800,000,000,000 brains is different.
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  There's no wiring that is the same.
• 23:50
  And we have about 18% that are considered neurodiverse and more if you have the the very
• 23:58
  severe severe ones and we are just beginning to realize the importance, and I thank you very
• 24:04
  much for for organizing this evening because there's so many people who are uncomfortable.
• 24:08
  I mean, I really, really suffer with my ADHD Institute, probably do.
• 24:13
  I remember saying to my daughter once, oh, I'm so tired.
• 24:16
  I feel like I'm running a two legged race she thought about it.
• 24:19
  She said, yeah, money.
• 24:20
  We we run faster than anybody.
• 24:22
  And and it's true.
• 24:24
  You do.
• 24:25
  Especially if you have ADHD, you really get out there.
• 24:28
  You're you're leapfrogging the rest of us who are just trying to keep up with you.
• 24:33
  Yeah.
• 24:33
  So, you know, we it's just you know, shaking it up.
• 24:36
  And and I think we can kind of wish that we all had little touches of of everything, but learn
• 24:42
  and I, you know, I I know myself, before understanding this, I had, someone that I was
• 24:49
  working with and the first Zoom conversation was before we kind of hooked up, I could, you
• 24:55
  know, you know, harness this and shaking his head and switching his seat.
• 24:58
  And I immediately found myself putting it in a pigeon note saying, Oh, I don't wanna work with
• 25:03
  this guy.
• 25:03
  He's really a nervous, nervous person type.
• 25:05
  And then when I understood tourists, I realized, Oh, this is Tourette's.
• 25:10
  This is jerking at the body.
• 25:12
  This is this and boy did I have someone brilliant?
• 25:15
  And I'm so lucky that I didn't pass him off on that, that, for Zoom calls.
• 25:21
  So, so
• 25:23
  let's let's talk about I'm very, very fascinated by How is it that companies are more
• 25:29
  open?
• 25:30
  I, you know, we are now in an age where we're coming out, you know, we're post pandemic or
• 25:35
  kind of what iteration of the pandemic.
• 25:39
  We're knowing that now people are are wanting value alignments with the positions that
• 25:43
  they're keeping.
• 25:44
  People are you know, going with with brands that they like or they're they want to, to kind
• 25:50
  of live within.
• 25:52
  We see quiet quitting happening all over.
• 25:54
  Now we're know, will the worry about the world recession that's who are in or or are coming
• 25:58
  about.
• 25:59
  There's a lot of worries.
• 26:00
  So with all of those things in mind, What are you finding that companies are willing to do
• 26:05
  differently around this element of the spectrum or newer diversity?
• 26:11
  Mhmm.
• 26:12
  Well, there's there there there's a whole range of things they can do.
• 26:17
  Obviously, we've got a new kind of training.
• 26:19
  Mentoring is one of the best.
• 26:21
  You find somebody who is sensitive to this, and we do and as a coach with you know, trained
• 26:28
  with the Neuro Leadership Institute, they have a very good method that we just use in general
• 26:33
  for using it for Neural Leadership This can also be used very well with, people who are
• 26:42
  neurodiverse because it's a different approach.
• 26:43
  It's really getting people to themselves, to the So
• 26:48
  What what an what an amazing all encompassing model.
• 26:51
  Right?
• 26:52
  Because really it's it's really true elements of what may be people that haven't not been
• 26:57
  impacted by new diversity.
• 26:58
  We get just because.
• 27:00
  Right?
• 27:01
  So kind of thinking that I connect in a certain way.
• 27:04
  I you know, I'm I'm looking for the, you know, the elements so I can proceed along with trust.
• 27:09
  You know, then I'm looking for a little bit of consistency, but those are the normal steps.
• 27:12
  But scarf, really is a a beautiful model because it allows us to say, okay, if you are
• 27:17
  different, why not create the context so that people can feel safe and secure enough to
• 27:23
  proceed in a way, to find their grounding in in whatever capacity that they're working.
• 27:30
  Yeah.
• 27:31
  Yeah.
• 27:31
  It sounds like a really, really nice model.
• 27:33
  Are companies, looking for models like this and are they applying it?
• 27:39
  And why would a company come forward to to work with the institutes?
• 27:43
  Why would they The
• 27:44
  scarf model.
• 27:44
  Yeah.
• 27:44
  If you're re re replying to the scarf model, yes.
• 27:47
  They are, the scarf model is definitely one that is being used in a lot of companies.
• 27:53
  We use it all the time now.
• 27:54
  That's getting widespread recognition.
• 27:56
  And so we're we're being able to use that.
• 28:00
  Awesome.
• 28:01
  And just it's probably one of the best models known in, new leadership right now.
• 28:07
  Okay.
• 28:07
  That's fascinating.
• 28:09
  So I have one line, and I know we're running out of time, but I one last question, because
• 28:12
  you intrigued by you bringing it up, you said that there's different parts of the brain based
• 28:18
  on culture, that gets lit up.
• 28:22
  So and that's, you know, from an a diversity lens.
• 28:25
  I'm just curious.
• 28:26
  Can you talk a little bit about that?
• 28:27
  Because I'm fascinated, by you bringing that up.
• 28:31
  Yeah.
• 28:31
  This is, perhaps something for, you know, a part 2 because it's it's, we now have it's a
• 28:39
  little bit of a different field.
• 28:40
  We call that encoding and how we are encoded for culture, but we know that it's not just
• 28:45
  that we choose to do, but rather some of this goes back even 2000 years for instance, if you
• 28:50
  look at Asians, they this was a population that has more serotonin because for 2 reasons, it
• 28:59
  was, largely has to do with whether or not you were rice or wheat.
• 29:04
  And another one that is, so you have the Russia wheat, and that will make a difference on
• 29:12
  whether you develop more of the serotonin.
• 29:15
  It was also more protected because the population was very susceptible to disease and
• 29:23
  still is.
• 29:23
  So that has a lot to do with that, and you can look at the difference between flip over to the
• 29:29
  United States where you've got dopamine, and you've got, with the dopamine, you've got
• 29:36
  cultures that are definitely, like the US, they're wheat, and we have to get out there by
• 29:42
  ourselves always.
• 29:43
  And you know, if you remember that old old story about who will, you know, the chicken and
• 29:47
  the sky is falling, who will help me plant my wheat?
• 29:50
  Well, I will do it myself if I want my bread.
• 29:52
  Well, that's very different if you are coming from a rice space, if you don't work together
• 29:58
  for 1000 years, you will start.
• 29:59
  You have to because of the way the rice patties work.
• 30:02
  And amend it all out together.
• 30:04
  And that is encoding, and that gets us, that gets just, you know, fixed it in that way.
• 30:09
  Well, well, that is a fascinating, fascinating conversation that truly we're talking with the
• 30:16
  Ibers, just the we, but we're looking at it from a different code, which I'm I think we'll
• 30:20
  definitely have to have me come back because I think we need to talk more about that as we
• 30:24
  talk about, you know, DEI and occlusion.
• 30:28
  You know, what a fascinating thing if we can go back to looking at imprinting and, cultural
• 30:34
  context and then generational cultural context and what and then we put all of us together now
• 30:40
  that we're a global economy, and we're all just gonna play really, really nice, right?
• 30:44
  And so that that that understanding would be very, very fascinating.
• 30:47
  So I would love at some point, with our schedules for you to be able to come back on
• 30:52
  and we'll we'll spend time exploring that, from your anthropological background, which I think
• 30:56
  would be, really amazing.
• 30:58
  Now, Cynthia, I'd be
• 30:59
  happy to do that.
• 31:01
  So for people that are thinking, wow, this is some pretty neat stuff, and they want to know
• 31:07
  more about the institute and you where can they reach you?
• 31:11
  Or, where would you like people to connect with you if you are open to that to to, get a bit
• 31:16
  more knowledge around your diversity and the implications, for training and development.
• 31:23
  Yeah.
• 31:23
  Absolutely.
• 31:24
  Yeah.
• 31:25
  Yeah, just just say a little bit about that.
• 31:27
  It's, as we end, it is the center for neuro leadership and diversity here in provost
• 31:34
  France.
• 31:35
  And we do training.
• 31:37
  We do certification courses.
• 31:39
  We have, a lot of coaching mentoring that is done through the center.
• 31:44
  It's it's I I really put it all together and have different visiting professors who come
• 31:50
  different groups that come.
• 31:51
  And so it goes in that direction and then do a lot of the coaching as well, the leadership
• 31:56
  coaching.
• 31:57
  Awesome.
• 31:58
  So for anyone, I have gained so much, and, I love the model, the scarf model, and I think
• 32:04
  I'm going to in my day to day interactions with people that I'm going out there, you know,
• 32:10
  regardless of the context of my interactions, I'm gonna start to think more along those
• 32:15
  lines.
• 32:15
  Like, what is it?
• 32:16
  If someone is a bit diametrically opposed to me, maybe it's not maybe it's me to be a
• 32:21
  subtlety, but it's my opportunity to be curious and to think what is it that I could be
• 32:27
  implementing to connect in a different way.
• 32:30
  So thank you for that.
• 32:31
  Thank you for that gift for anyone.
• 32:33
  I'm wanting to reach out to Cynthia and get some more information.
• 32:38
  And on my on my end, if you're wanting to learn more about authentic heart leadership, just
• 32:44
  reach out to us at Roxanne Derhodge.
• 32:47
  Dotcom forward slash quiz.
• 32:49
  And you can do a really, really quick assessment, and we'll send the results to you.
• 32:55
  Living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive, healthy change.
• 33:00
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with visit
• 33:07
  roxannedurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 33:10
  We'll see you next time.
• 33:12
  An authentic living with Roxanne.