Latest / The Future Herd / 21: Democratizing Agriculture Through Intelligent Data Platforms with Mohamad Yaghi

Transcript

21: Democratizing Agriculture Through Intelligent Data Platforms with Mohamad Yaghi · The Future Herd

0:01
Jesse Hirsh: Hi, I'm Jesse Hirsch.
0:03
Welcome to the Future Herd.
0:13
Today's episode is one that I was particularly excited to record.
0:19
And the irony is that I do these intros after I've done the episode
0:24
as a kind of overture where I let you know a little bit about the guest,
0:28
a little bit about the conversation.
0:31
And this is where I do have to start with a disclaimer.
0:34
Despite my best attempts and perhaps as a consequence of Muhammad's encouragement,
0:40
we did nerd out just a little bit about the potential of AI in agriculture.
0:47
And this is where I kind of have to take a moment to situate the context
0:51
that we're currently in a bit of an AI bubble, an AI hype craze that does add
0:58
a lot of, you know, nonsense, a lot of, uh, baloney, a lot of exaggeration.
1:06
But that's why agriculture's a little different.
1:09
Because agriculture is the one area where AI really proves its worth, and not just
1:16
that, but has a potentially exponential and empowering dynamic provided we're
1:23
willing to pay attention, provided we're willing to learn and embrace the kind of
1:28
critical literacies that are necessary to make sure that the tools bend to
1:33
us instead of us bending to the tools.
1:36
And that's where Muhammad is an exceptional leader because he is
1:41
one of the, the, the few people that I've encountered in the agricultural
1:45
sector who are able to really appreciate the potential of both.
1:51
You know, on the one hand, the, the curiosity, the risk, the, the kind
1:56
of entrepreneur, entrepreneurial nature o- of being a farmer.
2:00
But on the flip side, the curiosity, the empowerment, the innovation, the
2:06
iteration that technology enables.
2:10
And, you know, this is an example where I think Muhammad is able to not
2:14
just wear those two hats, but be a translator, help create a culture of
2:19
intera- innovation around AI, around agriculture, that while there are people
2:25
doing this across the country, I'm not so, I'm not sure so many have as unique and
2:32
insightful as a perspective as Muhammads.
2:35
So again, normally in our intros, I like to give you a hint of what the subjects
2:39
are, but this time I'm not because this is the second episode in our ongoing
2:45
series around artificial intelligence.
2:48
And I really want you to lean in because I know that there are people
2:52
listening to this with a r- wide range of technological literacy, let alone AI
2:58
literacy, and I kinda want you to take my hand and, and to go on a long-term
3:04
journey where on the one hand, we go deep, but on the other hand, we maintain
3:10
your interest, uh, our comprehension and, and hopefully coherence.
3:14
And I kinda feel we did that today with Muhammad.
3:17
So, uh, let's listen in to what was for me, a thoroughly enjoyable
3:23
conversation, which I hope you enjoy even only half as much.
3:27
I
3:28
Mohamed, welcome to the Future herd.
3:30
Mohamad Yaghi: Hey, thank you so much for having me.
3:32
Jesse Hirsh: Now, I, I've built a ritual where the first question I
3:35
throw to every guest is a bit of a Rach
3:38
test.
3:40
does the future mean to you?
3:43
What does the
3:45
mean to me?
3:46
Mohamad Yaghi: this
3:47
Jesse Hirsh: I like this question.
3:47
I think the future is.
3:49
Mohamad Yaghi: is technology that is enabling you to really
3:52
expand whatever your strength is.
3:54
And I know that sounds really generic, but you know
3:58
I think,
3:59
um, a lot of different things in my life, but also just even working
4:02
with family and, uh, and whatnot.
4:05
Uh, I just think about.
4:07
You know, everything we do really well.
4:08
Like how can we ex like, make it exponential basically.
4:12
So in a really cool way, I think technology is gonna
4:14
help elevate our advantages,
4:18
I think at the same time.
4:19
there's gonna be a lot of gaps in it.
4:20
And I think when we're, the way we're growing tech today we're it's grow,
4:25
it's growing way too fast, you know, uh, in terms of us being able to
4:29
regulate it and monitor it in a way that it can grow in a healthy way.
4:31
So hope.
4:34
hope we can balance that approach.
4:36
I don't think we will, but I think in terms of just the future and where
4:40
we can go with it, uh, I've never been more excited than I am today.
4:45
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
4:46
And, and I kind of play this game as interviewer.
4:48
I'm only allowed to kind of ask questions based on the
4:51
material that the guests give me.
4:53
And I do want to come back to the word strength.
4:55
'cause I think we should talk about the strength of Canadians.
4:58
Uh, the.
4:59
AgriFood sector.
5:00
I think that would be a fun
5:02
thread for us to play.
5:04
But this is our second episode where I get to talk about AI
5:07
and,
5:08
excited about ai.
5:09
I talk to everyone I can about ai.
5:11
So I wanna start by saying
5:13
I do have to resist the urge to nerd out.
5:16
I hope you will help me with that over the course of today's conversation.
5:19
Mohamad Yaghi: at all.
5:20
Jesse Hirsh: Oh, okay.
5:21
We're, we might be in for trouble.
5:23
all Hope ye who enter, uh, and, and, and I usually this.
5:27
Second question I throw at a guest is kind of like a lore or an origin
5:31
question, and in your case, where did your relationship with technology begin?
5:38
Like when did you decide that this was an area that not only merited your curiosity,
5:45
aligned with your professional path?
5:48
Mohamad Yaghi: You know, can I take this in a really weird
5:51
Jesse Hirsh: Please do.
5:52
Mohamad Yaghi: direction.
5:53
Okay.
5:54
So, growing up, I, I didn't grow up in Canada.
5:57
I grew up in everywhere by Canada, um, and for a long time.
6:01
So I'm Lebanese by heritage.
6:02
I mean, I'm Lebanese, uh, as well right now.
6:05
And, um.
6:06
You know, growing up in Lebanon, the thing that you really get to see compared to
6:11
Canada is there's so much accessibility in Canada for a lot of different things, like
6:15
when it comes to, let's say electricity, water, like the simple stuff, right?
6:19
Jesse Hirsh: So everything is.
6:20
Mohamad Yaghi: Lebanon, always trying to access it.
6:23
Uh, and somebody, uh, aptly told me once that Lebanon is the future and
6:28
lebanon's the future, not because it's gonna have the most high tech stuff,
6:31
but because of, you know, every, um.
6:36
that nation feels or suffers.
6:39
So like the acute effects of climate change, the, uh, the impact of, um,
6:44
you know, mismanaging national finances as we see in the country right now.
6:48
like, and, and again, like you're, you're able to see these issues
6:52
amplified before they impacting others.
6:56
Jesse Hirsh: I can't
6:56
Mohamad Yaghi: climate change enough with this, uh, answer.
6:59
So, because always.
7:02
Felt the burden of, you know, geopolitics and a lot of different issues way in
7:08
the future, or like way before anybody else, let's say, uh, the impact of
7:12
water shortages or, uh, let's say the, the, uh, a broken food supply system.
7:17
Um.
7:18
You had to rely on technology, and technology is such a democratising
7:23
force, and I know that sounds cliche, but I can be really specific, it's
7:27
democratising because it enables you to be able to operate on your own
7:32
without having to depend on anyone.
7:34
So I guess my relationship with technology comes from that foundation.
7:37
It's that.
7:38
You don't have to rely on anybody with that technology.
7:41
So today, you know, on the, the farm that, um, my father and I help manage, like we
7:46
use a lot of different tech technical, uh, software technology features,
7:50
um, and we use it for that purpose.
7:52
It's just, you know, it helps us rely on ourselves as opposed to
7:56
having depend on anybody else.
7:57
So
7:58
Jesse Hirsh: I guess.
7:59
Mohamad Yaghi: story when it comes to my love for technology.
8:02
Jesse Hirsh: on.
8:03
Right on.
8:03
And your point about democratisation I think is incredibly relevant when it
8:07
comes to agriculture and when it comes to the way in which farmers think of their
8:11
tools and think of their technology.
8:14
It used to be, you could say that technology was democratising
8:18
and people would just go, yes.
8:20
I think right now it is a bit of a contentious statement,
8:23
social media being exhibit A,
8:26
but I feel that literacy is a major enabler of that.
8:30
That if you
8:31
can enable greater literacy, that's what enables technology to be democratising.
8:38
So give me a sense of how you're
8:40
attempting to do that or accomplishing that.
8:43
In the Canadian agricultural sector,
8:47
How, how, how are you enabling a literacy and a curiosity of technology
8:54
a culture, whether farming or not?
8:57
Where I think people are kind of suspicious of technology
9:00
for a range of different reasons.
9:02
Mohamad Yaghi: reasons.
9:03
Okay, I'm gonna give you a super
9:05
Jesse Hirsh: Answer.
9:07
So I, you brought a really good point about social media.
9:11
When to social media.
9:13
Mohamad Yaghi: the foundation of social media was democratising because it
9:16
enabled users to operate their social networks in their own way and the
9:21
influence of algorithms and other.
9:24
Advertorial purposes on these platforms were not there.
9:28
So they weren't pushing users in a specific direction.
9:31
They weren't pushing things content specifically towards them.
9:34
It was much more user generated or driven.
9:37
the way I, I would see it.
9:38
And I think somebody recently asked me that question.
9:40
I really that another podcast.
9:42
So I love that you brought that up 'cause now I can reframe my answer
9:45
'cause I've given more thought to it.
9:47
Uh, ahead though.
9:50
Um,
9:52
comes
9:52
Jesse Hirsh: It
9:53
comes to,
9:54
Mohamad Yaghi: in agriculture, would argue farmers have always been on
9:58
the cutting edge of technology.
9:59
Like, think about the different risks that you have to manage on your farm.
10:02
Like, I've worked at General Electric, like there was this concept called
10:06
the Brilliant Factory, where you would have a floor and the beginning of
10:11
each day, the teams would be able to decide what they wanted to do that day.
10:16
Uh, it was a very cooperative system.
10:19
And whatever was decided as the plan of the day, they were executed.
10:23
But you're working in an environment where you've eliminated external environmental
10:27
cer like uncertainties, right?
10:30
supply chain scenarios of course, would pop up, but in terms of like what you're
10:34
actually dealing with, like very much, you had a blank canvas where external, the
10:38
external environment wasn't impacting you.
10:40
When it comes to agriculture, think about like the number.
10:44
mean, just in soil alone, like six two thirds of the world's
10:47
biodiversity is just in soil alone.
10:49
So imagine you're dealing with,
10:52
Jesse Hirsh: And the key two thirds,
10:54
the key two thirds, if we don't have that biodiversity in soil,
10:58
the rest of the biodiversity.
11:00
I digress, please.
11:02
Mohamad Yaghi: no, exactly.
11:02
So like, imagine, so that's, so I think like we look over that often.
11:06
So it's like, so you have two thirds of that biodiversity that you have to cont
11:10
content, but that's just in soil alone.
11:12
Think about the right, like just think your, of your external environment,
11:15
your ecosystem, uh, think about, you know, just wind is for example as well.
11:20
What do you spray?
11:21
How does that all combine together?
11:22
You're dealing with millions and millions of variables.
11:24
So when it comes to agriculture, first off, farmers are
11:27
always taking immense risk.
11:28
Year over year.
11:29
Secondly, when it comes to technology adoption, I would argue
11:32
they're, they've always been on the cutting edge of adoption.
11:36
But the issue has been days
11:39
Jesse Hirsh: You have
11:40
Mohamad Yaghi: of different companies that are emerging and rightfully emerging.
11:43
So, and you're operating in a more competitive space.
11:45
So sometimes it might come off as they don't want to test it,
11:47
but they don't wanna test it because you're asking them to.
11:50
Risk time on somebody that is already risk risky within an industry that is already
11:57
contending with, again, millions of risks.
12:00
So
12:01
Jesse Hirsh: and it.
12:01
Mohamad Yaghi: risk to them.
12:02
Right.
12:03
Jesse Hirsh: You know, you take the phrase, the bleeding
12:05
edge, and in agriculture it really could be a bleeding edge,
12:10
and, and, and that's why that risk is kind of buried in.
12:12
Please continue.
12:14
Mohamad Yaghi: Yeah.
12:14
No, no.
12:14
Yeah.
12:15
But this is to your point, right?
12:17
Um, and I think yes, exactly about bleeding edge.
12:19
And I think
12:21
Jesse Hirsh: When you look at like,
12:22
Mohamad Yaghi: of technology, if it works, they'll use it like the
12:24
self-propel combine, eliminating 10 jobs.
12:27
Yes.
12:28
That's, that's the way to go
12:30
Jesse Hirsh: I think.
12:30
Mohamad Yaghi: to software.
12:32
are entering a new age.
12:34
I was talking, I was actually telling a few folks on the team this week about
12:38
what I think the next wave of artificial intelligence and the way I define it.
12:42
First of all, uh, AI is advanced statistical pattern recognition.
12:47
There are multiple tools.
12:48
Of a, of accomplishing what this definition of AI is.
12:52
Um, and it, it can come through many different forms, but when we're, what
12:56
we're seeing with the Gentech AI right now, I think we're gonna be coming to
13:00
a paradigm within agriculture where AI can be more easily adopted because
13:05
as opposed to 2019 where there wasn't really a lot of data to collect, we're
13:10
now in a scenario where there's too much.
13:12
So how can.
13:13
Agents connect the dots with the multiple data entries and again,
13:17
platforms that farmers are using today to make sense of their operations.
13:21
And then also highlight different, I guess, uh, next steps for them, right?
13:25
Because they need a bit of a guardian angel.
13:27
I think those agents can be, uh, those guardian angels.
13:30
I'm calling it operational persistence, but that's a longwinded answer
13:35
Jesse Hirsh: No, that, that's a, that was a fantastic answer, and, and it
13:38
allows me to, to throw you a big curve ball w with an anecdote in the middle,
13:42
a self-serving anecdote because y you said something that is an obsession
13:46
of mine, which I'll, I'll reframe as.
13:49
Making the on-ramp to the agricultural sector as easy and accessible as possible,
13:55
right?
13:55
Making it really simple for us to attract not just talented people to
13:59
the sector, but curious people, right?
14:02
who want to bring new ideas and, and new challenges.
14:06
for me, as a small farmer, obviously we have labour issues.
14:10
one of the biggest labour issues is that me and my partner, sometimes
14:13
we have to leave the farm.
14:14
And if we want someone to come and do our chores or do our responsibility,
14:19
there's a bit of a, a knowledge handoff that has to happen.
14:22
So in January, I built an open claw instal
14:26
manages all our farm chores.
14:28
So at any point I can.
14:30
Someone come in and the open claw will walk them through how to mix
14:33
the mineral feed for the pigs, right?
14:35
Or the open claw will help them go through all the steps.
14:38
So just on a knowledge management level, it it's a vision of how
14:42
agents can make that kind of labour management even easier.
14:46
So here's.
14:47
The, one of the questions I wanted to ask you today, which is both
14:51
self-serving, but also I think speaks to leadership and organisation,
14:55
you've got a choice gig,
14:57
the innovation hub at FCC.
15:00
How do you guys keep up, like we are witnessing such a rapid rate of
15:04
technological change that whether it's ai.
15:07
Or whether it's the broader technological industry, right?
15:10
There's new models, there's new drones, there's new robots, there's
15:14
new combines, there's new tractors.
15:17
Mohamad Yaghi: there's
15:18
Jesse Hirsh: do you practise the art of innovation when innovation is
15:22
happening at such a breakneck speed
15:26
that I'm assuming as an organisation that has to be one
15:29
of the issues you tackle with,
15:31
or am I wrong?
15:31
Am I just fantasising here?
15:33
Mohamad Yaghi: just
15:34
No.
15:34
Jesse Hirsh: no.
15:35
Mohamad Yaghi: I, I, love, uh, the question.
15:39
So, so I lead, uh, ag Expert and the Innovation Hub at FCC,
15:44
Jesse Hirsh: I think
15:45
Mohamad Yaghi: roles
15:46
Expert is Farm Credit, Canada farm management software that
15:49
we've had for over 23 years on it.
15:51
We provide two tools, accounting and field.
15:54
Jesse Hirsh: what's really interesting.
15:55
Mohamad Yaghi: role is the use of information we have right
15:58
now and how can we use that information to help the sector.
16:03
historical data.
16:04
And I think in terms of just using, you know, historical data, I don't
16:07
think anybody else in the industry has access to it because we have activities
16:11
and then we have financial outcomes and we're able to link the two actual
16:16
credible intelligence to the industry.
16:17
So I wouldn't say that's all technology, but it's, it's a bit of
16:21
a mind shift to like focus on like a, on a huge problem for the industry
16:26
Jesse Hirsh: And, and
16:27
I, I would also give you credit there worth highlighting
16:31
it gives you a user base.
16:33
So you actually have users, you have data, right?
16:35
You, you, you have an insight into user experience that a lot of
16:40
companies may not have.
16:41
Please continue.
16:42
Mohamad Yaghi: have.
16:43
No, no, exactly.
16:44
Thank you for that actually is like a much better answer than I had.
16:47
Uh, but I would Yeah, like to that point.
16:49
Exactly.
16:49
We have users, we have over 28,000, um, so.
16:53
That gives me like a test bed of applications where we can like test
16:57
and refine ifferent technologies and
17:00
Jesse Hirsh: best technology, in my opinion is
17:02
you don't,
17:03
Mohamad Yaghi: like you're actually seamlessly starting to use these
17:05
like analytics in your operations and you don't have to like the on-ramp
17:09
time to use it is super minimal.
17:11
On the flip side, we have something called the innovation hub, and in it
17:14
there is a team called the Innovation Lab, which is basically our r and d group.
17:19
Jesse Hirsh: I would say.
17:19
Mohamad Yaghi: what we're testing and functioning, the newer,
17:22
bolder, aspirational innovations.
17:25
Uh, we've come out with like a large language model called root ai, but
17:29
when it comes to like next steps.
17:31
It's fascinating to see like what is what, what's the bleeding edge?
17:35
Uh, and it's great because we're able to test bleeding edge technologies,
17:39
but grounded in information our team also collects, which is
17:43
customer sentiment information.
17:45
So to answer your question, finally.
17:48
The way we, we, we go about it is not to test technology for technology's sake.
17:52
It always is rooted in the customer problem.
17:54
Like what is it that they're dealing with that they want solved?
17:58
Uh, and what is a service that FCC can provide that isn't available today?
18:02
So again, knowledge and advisory is a huge issue in the sector
18:06
because of a lot of changes that have happened over the past decade.
18:09
what we're providing.
18:10
We're providing these simple services.
18:12
So again, when we talk about, uh.
18:16
knowledge transfer between the, the, the, like the, the generation going off
18:20
the farm to this incoming generation.
18:22
That's a huge knowledge transfer gap we need to
18:25
Jesse Hirsh: Yeah.
18:25
Mohamad Yaghi: to the decline of extension services, that's a knowledge
18:29
transfer gap we need to address.
18:31
Uh, when it comes to, uh, rural revitalization with the loss of jobs
18:37
like let's say legal firms or accountants because of changing dynamics in rural
18:41
communities, that's a knowledge gap too.
18:43
So how can we provide that?
18:44
Um, that, that the tech, how do we fit the technology we see
18:48
today to address those questions?
18:51
So that's how we try to merge the two together and try to test it as fast
18:54
as possible because we should be the institution for Canadian Ag where
18:58
again, where we can test and fail, uh, because then we can share those
19:02
learnings with the agricultural community.
19:04
Jesse Hirsh: Now the, the reason I kind of highlighted the value of the
19:07
user base is, you know, not just 'cause I understand that in software terms,
19:12
I think you've emphasised.
19:14
The value there from knowledge terms and from knowledge transfer terms.
19:18
So a a, a kind of two-sided question.
19:20
On the one hand,
19:22
do you have capacity to engage them in the design process to
19:27
engage users in understanding their needs and bending the tools to their needs?
19:32
And
19:33
on the flip side.
19:35
Are there users who want that?
19:37
Like are there users who are flooding you with feature requests and, you know,
19:42
about the software and, and, and pushing you to go to new places?
19:46
me a sense of the user culture that, you know, ag expert and
19:49
consequently the innovation hub
19:51
are, are able to access.
19:52
Mohamad Yaghi: are, are able to access.
19:54
a broad spectrum of, we have everybody, uh, and it's amazing.
19:58
Jesse Hirsh: You
19:58
Mohamad Yaghi: you can see the folks
20:01
Jesse Hirsh: like.
20:01
Mohamad Yaghi: use Claude to build, um, infrastructure for their own
20:04
firms and operations, and it's amazing to see, to what I was talking about
20:10
before, the democratising effort.
20:12
They're able to use these tools for their own benefit.
20:14
And they're also able to help us push the bleeding edge.
20:17
Like do we, can we just have an API connection and we just share data with
20:20
you and you can manage however you want the data on your farm, right?
20:23
That's like one option all the way to folks who are a little
20:26
sceptical, sceptical, uh, SSP sceptical of technology.
20:31
also a really good use case for us to test and see and refine the process so
20:36
we don't make it feel as if they have to climb up a mountain to learn it, it
20:39
can be a bit adaptable to their needs.
20:41
So we have a broad spectrum of people, of users on, on the Ag expert
20:46
platform, but that even with the innovation, uh, lab that we have.
20:51
W again, we, we constantly test with users because we need to be customer
20:56
obsessed because the industry, again, God bless us, we have a big country.
21:00
have to be able to manage the different requirements and features
21:04
that they're demanding of us, and we try to make their requests as.
21:08
Seamless as possible to like enter our system and help build, um, of course
21:13
we have to manage it appropriately, but like we want to make, it's, it's a bit
21:17
of a circular like feedback loop, right?
21:19
Uh, because fundamentally at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what
21:22
type of technology we use, it has to help the, help them in their problem.
21:26
Otherwise it's not worth pursuing, I think.
21:28
Um, but it's still good to, you know, have a. A foundation to test new technology
21:34
with, especially what we're seeing with like, um, AG agentic AI right now.
21:39
Especially, uh, you know, the, the, I I don't know if you've had, you've
21:43
read recent stories on end in labs, for instance, and what they were doing
21:46
with, uh, agents managing a store or, or a vending machine like that.
21:51
This is like.
21:51
This is where we can start testing the bleeding edge of it
21:54
and see like what actually works.
21:56
And then as a Crown Co corporation, we're in a really ideal position because we
22:01
can reduce the risk for our producers, 'cause we can share those learnings
22:05
with them or create something where they can use it as a testing ground.
22:09
And if they feel like they need to acquire its solution after using it,
22:14
they, actually have some knowledge to do that more confidently.
22:18
Jesse Hirsh: Well, and you know, to your point of the Crown Corporation,
22:22
where do you see open source fitting into all this?
22:26
And, and that's again, a double-edged question.
22:28
'cause on the one hand,
22:29
source is driving a lot of the ecosystem right now.
22:32
I mentioned open claw, right?
22:34
It, it sort of kicked off an, an open source AI revolution.
22:37
The AG agentic space right now is dominated by open source projects
22:42
and a Crown corporation.
22:45
Unlike, say a traditional financial institution
22:49
have kind of social enterprise tendencies, for lack of a better
22:54
word, that suggests there is a bigger picture that is part of the mandate.
22:59
Mohamad Yaghi: that is.
23:00
Part of the mandate.
23:02
Jesse Hirsh: So.
23:02
Mohamad Yaghi: I think a
23:03
of
23:04
Jesse Hirsh: Innovation
23:05
Mohamad Yaghi: that
23:05
Jesse Hirsh: we've
23:05
Mohamad Yaghi: come
23:06
Jesse Hirsh: seen
23:06
Mohamad Yaghi: okay, open claw is one example, but when we look at
23:09
other technologies, like when you
23:12
us, some of the biggest leaps that were that
23:14
was
23:15
Jesse Hirsh: happened.
23:15
Mohamad Yaghi: of, uh, departmental funding.
23:17
Like Silicon
23:18
Jesse Hirsh: Yeah.
23:19
Mohamad Yaghi: there because of the DOD, because they're able
23:22
to bear the brunt of that risk.
23:24
So at FCC, we're able to brunt.
23:27
That risk, like, again, not all the risks all the time, but like a good portion
23:30
of it, uh, we're able to like back ourselves, like we're able to fail fast.
23:35
Um, and that's where I think the power of a Crown Corporation can
23:39
come in because we reduce that risk, but also at the same time the,
23:43
we're the bearer of standards too.
23:45
So.
23:46
want to play, help the market, you know, have a system where, again,
23:51
if it's something simple, somebody isn't overcharging for that as well.
23:55
Like we're able to provide really great, great tools, but be the bare
23:58
of the standards so that others in the market know what they need
24:01
to do in order to attract users.
24:04
Um, and you know, how to appropriately charge them as well.
24:07
Like, that's the way I see it as well.
24:09
'cause when we look at, again, innovations that have come
24:11
through, uh, the biggest, I mean.
24:13
It you, all you have to do is look to the US to see, like the SBIR programme,
24:18
um, the different funding tools that every department in the US has to put
24:23
aside just for innovative projects.
24:26
Like the DOD has funded projects, uh, that are unrelated to defence, right?
24:30
So it's like they're able to stimulate the economy in that way,
24:33
and that I see a Crown Corporation playing in a similar space as well
24:37
to help stimulate innovation too.
24:40
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
24:40
I, I may use that against you at some point in the future.
24:43
Mohamad Yaghi: the
24:44
Jesse Hirsh: one of the other questions that
24:46
I like to throw at our leaders is kind of the vantage question.
24:49
It's the perspective and, and it goes to this hypothesis I have
24:53
that part of what makes a leader is they see things, others don't.
24:56
And part of the privilege of being an institution
25:01
it affords you a glimpse of the sector that that may be unique.
25:06
And in your case, I wanna frame that in the context of innovation
25:10
because on the one hand, you know, you get to see, I think a lens of
25:14
what's happening in the agricultural sector and you asserted it at the
25:18
outright by saying rightly so, that
25:21
are often at the forefront of innovation and, and responsibly doing that.
25:25
You're also at Mars, the Mars Discovery District in Toronto.
25:28
Right, which is one of the kind of hubs across.
25:30
The country.
25:32
And of course I suspect you pay attention globally, not just 'cause
25:35
of your connection to farming in Lebanon, but 'cause you're
25:38
clearly a, a smart and curious guy.
25:41
So what do you see when you look out on the innovation landscape?
25:45
You know, what catches your eye and, and what are the things that,
25:49
think the rest of us,
25:51
should be paying attention to,
25:52
not just on the level of trends.
25:55
But on the level of kind of institutional capacity and institutional, uh,
25:59
uh, uh, capability building.
26:02
'cause that's kind of what you do at FCC, right?
26:04
Is to anticipate the services, the tools, the technologies
26:08
that your users and the broader sector will require?
26:12
Mohamad Yaghi: I
26:13
Jesse Hirsh: I think, you know, it's,
26:14
love that question.
26:15
Thank you for all the.
26:16
Mohamad Yaghi: I love them.
26:16
And, you know, honestly, great questions today.
26:18
I, I've been really enjoying this chat.
26:20
Uh, I, I want, I don't want to be too abstract with the way I approach this,
26:24
but I. I think we do a disservice to ourselves when we only focus on what are
26:31
the Americans doing, and this is not to put the Americans in a corner and say
26:34
that, you know, anything of the sort.
26:37
It's more to say we miss what's happening globally, uh, I think we, we, we miss
26:43
like the chance of really leapfrog in a. the, the competitiveness space
26:49
because what I think our obligation is as a Crown Corporation is to put our
26:55
in the
26:55
Jesse Hirsh: Industry
26:55
Mohamad Yaghi: position to be globally competitive.
26:58
Jesse Hirsh: and when I see what's happening
27:00
Mohamad Yaghi: in the US uh, but even, you know, down south to Brazil.
27:04
Uh, when I see what's happening in Southeast Asia,
27:08
Jesse Hirsh: outside.
27:08
Mohamad Yaghi: American market, and if I look at Brazil and Southeast Asia,
27:11
I see some really interesting trends when it comes to how do you use your
27:15
data to make your commerce faster.
27:18
Uh, and when I say commerce,
27:20
Jesse Hirsh: really about utilising,
27:21
Mohamad Yaghi: you have on hand to.
27:23
Increase the ability for you to,
27:26
Jesse Hirsh: again, process, whatever you need to
27:28
Mohamad Yaghi: Like instead of going and, you know, like, uh, to a bank waiting a
27:31
few days or weeks in order to get whatever financial product you're applying for,
27:35
why can't that be near instantaneous and.
27:39
With the advent of, again, the different agents we're seeing today,
27:43
uh, connecting the dots, how can we utilise that technology to make our,
27:48
you know, our system of commerce faster?
27:50
And I think this is gonna be, have an impact, a dramatic
27:52
impact in all of our lives.
27:54
Because if we're able to leverage technology and data, not only from
27:58
what we're producing on the farm, but even different dynamic data, uh, we're
28:03
able to build that intelligence into our systems and become more a debt.
28:07
Again, entrepreneurs, uh, 'cause again, every farmer is an
28:11
entrepreneur in their own right.
28:12
But how can we use that information to leverage it for our own intelligence so
28:16
we can make the best decisions possible?
28:18
And again, it might sound a little abstract, but happy to dive deeper into
28:22
Jesse Hirsh: Well, and let, let me ask a, a relevant follow up to that.
28:25
'cause I, I think you
28:27
articulated the opportunity in, in a really powerful way.
28:31
'cause on the one hand, America does dominate our perspective because
28:35
they're so big, because they're so lucrative and naturally economically.
28:39
We think about them first.
28:41
But there are all sorts of global opportunities out there, right?
28:45
Both on the export level and even on the import level.
28:48
And it strikes me one of the obstacles is literacy and intelligence.
28:53
That one of the things you could do with agents, right, with dashboards
28:58
use that data to make that information more available to Canadian producers,
29:03
more available to Canadian,
29:04
Mohamad Yaghi: to
29:05
Jesse Hirsh: processors and people in the AgriFood sector.
29:09
that we were able to have the nimbleness and resilience to make these, uh,
29:14
jump on these opportunities.
29:16
Am I overreading you or is this part of what you're trying to evoke here?
29:20
Mohamad Yaghi: No, no, I think that's part of
29:23
Jesse Hirsh: I'm trying to say, and I think you.
29:24
Mohamad Yaghi: with the utilisation of this information and intelligence,
29:29
Jesse Hirsh: I think you
29:30
Mohamad Yaghi: this,
29:30
Jesse Hirsh: knows that.
29:32
I've heard
29:32
Mohamad Yaghi: past couple years where, this is not only specific to
29:36
agriculture, but to Canada and as a whole, like we're very risk averse
29:39
and we need to take bolder bets and bigger, uh, again, we have to hit again.
29:44
Uh, uh.
29:45
Whatever opportunity we can get.
29:47
think one of the things that have been pushing us back is our
29:51
inability to see the intelligence before we can make a play.
29:55
And if we're able, again, to use these agents to connect the dots.
30:00
To patterns, as I mentioned at the beginning about like how I define a ai.
30:04
Like if we're able to look at those patterns that are not discernible to
30:07
the naked eye or somewhat immediately able to process and understand, that
30:12
gives us such a competitive advantage globally and that's how we can
30:15
reduce our risk, but also give us the opportunity to make bolder bets as well.
30:19
So I think overall, um, you know, we're seeing oncoming is not.
30:24
Only about, um, again, like what can an agent do, can imagine your entire
30:28
farm, maybe potentially in the future.
30:30
But I think more importantly is that intelligence that it'll be able to give
30:34
us at the tip of our fingers almost
30:37
And
30:37
Jesse Hirsh: how
30:37
Mohamad Yaghi: would we, how do we deploy it at a societal level as well?
30:42
Jesse Hirsh: I think that's,
30:42
Mohamad Yaghi: things for me to see.
30:44
Jesse Hirsh: see and, and now we get to take this interview and play
30:48
it the way I do with an LLM in that I love to take a context window,
30:52
load it with all sorts of contradictory information and then continue to throw
30:58
queries at it to see if I could break it.
31:00
Mohamad Yaghi: break it.
31:02
Jesse Hirsh: Maintaining the metaphor we've just described of
31:04
intelligence and opportunity and, and, and resilience and data.
31:11
I think you are the first guest we've had on the podcast
31:15
had the courage to put climate change on the table.
31:18
And it's not that the other guests
31:21
have avoided climate change, it's just I think a lot of people in the
31:26
sector kind of don't want to go there because it is filled with anxiety
31:30
and it can be kind of contentious.
31:34
context of our current conversation,
31:37
volatility
31:40
a lot of opportunities for the sector, right to respond to crises,
31:44
to adapt to extreme weather,
31:47
anticipate drought or anticipate floods and mitigate it.
31:51
And so I think where you and I have not just courage, but see
31:55
opportunity in leveraging the data for that kind of responsiveness,
32:00
how are you communicating that?
32:02
How are you conveying that value proposition?
32:05
And I'm not suggesting that the sector is against climate,
32:07
climate change quite the opposite.
32:08
I think there're adapting quite effectively.
32:11
I just don't think they're talking about it as, uh.
32:15
Proudly as they should,
32:17
Mohamad Yaghi: as they
32:18
Jesse Hirsh: the innovation we could be leading on a global scale.
32:21
that was a mouthful.
32:22
Bail me out here, Mohammed.
32:24
Mohamad Yaghi: out here, Moham.
32:24
Okay.
32:26
again, Jesse, what are these questions?
32:28
I love this.
32:29
Um.
32:30
As a sector, I think there's an imp look
32:34
Jesse Hirsh: Look at that.
32:35
Mohamad Yaghi: report.
32:35
Uh, I think the average emissions, um, you know, uh, from the ag
32:40
sector is maybe 63 megatons.
32:43
Jesse Hirsh: correct.
32:44
If
32:44
Mohamad Yaghi: it
32:45
lower,
32:45
Jesse Hirsh: I'm.
32:45
Mohamad Yaghi: be a bit higher.
32:46
But around that range think is, it doesn't tell the story completely because it
32:51
completely skips out on carbon sinks when you take all of Canada together.
32:57
Um.
32:59
believe that in our soils alone, we have over 25 years of manmade emissions
33:03
just store captured in our soils.
33:04
And that's not, that's including farmland, but then also pea in swamps
33:08
and marshlands, um, all of Canada.
33:12
in of itself a financial opportunity because we're storing that
33:15
carbon in our soils and, and.
33:17
Even though there may be, um, you know, a few studies out there that
33:21
have mentioned that because of our conversion of pasture land to crop land,
33:26
we might've lose lost some of those, um, you know, some megatons of carbon
33:32
Jesse Hirsh: Uh, I think the story,
33:33
Mohamad Yaghi: often.
33:34
Overlook is the fact that when it comes to farming itself, what
33:38
are the fundamentals of soil?
33:39
MPK, organic Sea and Organic
33:42
Jesse Hirsh: is.
33:42
Mohamad Yaghi: carbon.
33:43
It's something that is fundamental, it's an ingredient for our soils.
33:46
So again, the way we brand it, I think has maybe not always been in the right
33:52
direction or been helpful for our, again, to talk to a lot of our producers because
33:58
it's always coming from an angle of.
34:01
The sector is doing something wrong as opposed to look at all the
34:04
great things that's contributing to our national inventory.
34:07
Um, it counts.
34:09
Uh, how do we celebrate that and how do we recognise producers who have done, again,
34:14
the, who have been stewards of their land for decades and de centuries potentially?
34:18
Um, and then how do we
34:20
to
34:20
Jesse Hirsh: Continue.
34:21
Right.
34:22
So when it comes to climate change.
34:25
Mohamad Yaghi: I think the conversation really needs to lean towards the lens of.
34:30
Again, recognising the practises that have been conducted, but then
34:33
also at the same time, how do we find the opportunities through the data?
34:37
And this is something that we're actively looking at Ag expert.
34:40
How do we look at that information so that if you're asking a producer
34:44
to convert a practise, you're actually able to help them understand
34:48
what is the downside of that?
34:50
Change because changing a practise, let's say you're converting your line
34:53
to cover crops, you're gonna take years to potentially come back to those
34:57
yields that you were previously seeing.
35:00
Like you were giving, you're asking somebody to, to lose money for a few
35:03
years in order to capture more carbon.
35:05
And now, while.
35:07
Jesse Hirsh: When you look at it.
35:09
Mohamad Yaghi: like a high level, of course capturing more carbon
35:12
from the atmosphere is great, but how does that really help a
35:15
producer be sustainable financially for their own farm and operation?
35:19
So it has to go hand in hand.
35:21
So I really see the information we get from our farms today is be as the unlock
35:27
towards this next, uh, ad advantage that we can have as an industry too.
35:31
Jesse Hirsh: Well, and, and for two reasons.
35:33
On the one hand, I think we made a, a terrible mistake.
35:36
I think the, the scientists made a terrible mistake in treating
35:40
climate change as an abstraction
35:42
rather than grounding it in, to your point, people's operations
35:46
or people's experiences.
35:48
And I think.
35:49
Similarly to your other point, that's why we need the data to demonstrate the
35:54
return on more sustainable practises.
35:58
the science is there, like the science, whether it's
36:01
in which, you know, the cover crop takes a little while for
36:04
the fertility to come back,
36:06
or it's just the change management that allows the new practises
36:09
to be implemented successfully.
36:12
think there is a great opportunity to have both the data and the benchmarking
36:17
justify these different practises.
36:19
But to your point, it has to be removed from shame.
36:22
It has to be removed from admonishment.
36:24
It has to be removed from the adversarial nature that this
36:28
particular policy area has created.
36:31
By all means, you can elaborate on that, but this allows me to elevate
36:36
us to another card on the table,
36:39
is conspiracy and disinformation, right?
36:42
Because there, there is no paradox to the idea that on the one hand
36:46
we've never had more information,
36:49
never had greater tools, we've never had more access to science
36:53
and the ability to do research.
36:55
Mohamad Yaghi: to
36:55
Jesse Hirsh: While we're sitting in an abundance of nonsense
36:58
Mohamad Yaghi: of
36:59
Jesse Hirsh: and reconciling those two in a communications environment, I would
37:03
not be able to ask two most ag leaders.
37:06
But part of your authority, part of your leadership lies from the fact that you
37:11
are a phenomenal communicator and you've been demonstrating that throughout this.
37:15
Mohamad Yaghi: that throughout this.
37:17
Jesse Hirsh: So again, I'm trying to break the context window by throwing
37:21
every possible query I can at ya.
37:24
so go wherever you wish,
37:26
this latest, uh, snowball of, uh, uh, information.
37:30
Mohamad Yaghi: Jesse, I need you more of my life.
37:32
My God.
37:33
Jesse Hirsh: I will take you up on that.
37:34
Please
37:34
Mohamad Yaghi: the,
37:36
Jesse Hirsh: Um.
37:37
Mohamad Yaghi: so I think it, like, again, it's, uh, maybe I, I don't wanna, I don't
37:42
wanna cop out of the answer on one hand.
37:45
Jesse Hirsh: It's the foundations.
37:47
Mohamad Yaghi: why we have a large language model at FCC.
37:50
And again, I think it's, it's not about the, the, the tools in of I
37:55
don't wanna quote Marshall Mc Lu, that the medium is the message.
37:57
Right.
37:57
But I do have to use that to an extent.
38:01
The,
38:02
Jesse Hirsh: Sometimes the.
38:03
Mohamad Yaghi: use will have.
38:04
Uh, impact on the way you receive information.
38:07
And I think there's, um, again, I'm not, uh, a communications expert in
38:12
terms of like how the communication is absorbed by general, the general
38:16
public or the general ag community.
38:17
But when it comes to like, let's say a large language model
38:20
hallucinating, that's an issue, right?
38:22
And we need to content to to that.
38:24
And I know that's not part of what you're asking, but I'll get to
38:27
Jesse Hirsh: But it totally is.
38:28
Mohamad Yaghi: one of the reasons.
38:29
mean like,
38:30
Jesse Hirsh: I.
38:30
Mohamad Yaghi: like I want to nail the head on it though.
38:33
Jesse Hirsh: Well, when it comes to.
38:35
Mohamad Yaghi: let's say hallucinations, that's why, that's what inspired us
38:37
to start our l large language model.
38:39
'cause we wanted to work with different agencies to give us information so
38:43
that we can create trusted and curated agricultural sources for any, any
38:47
responses that the, the tool will make.
38:49
So that's one hand when it comes to the general, um.
38:53
Uh, you know, the, the misinformation that we, we see on a grand scale.
38:58
I think it's because we might from, it's, I think it's a design problem
39:02
to an extent because the way people receive information these days
39:07
so,
39:07
Jesse Hirsh: Is,
39:07
Mohamad Yaghi: maybe they lost the service.
39:09
So I'll talk about extension services for a second.
39:12
Extension services.
39:13
The decline of it in terms of, um, the ability for people to have a
39:18
trusted advisor within the community.
39:20
Again,
39:21
Jesse Hirsh: I'm not saying.
39:22
Mohamad Yaghi: system, and again, I don't have any opinion on, you know,
39:25
the way it's changed over the years.
39:27
I think it's more of the loss of that advisor in a community
39:32
have an impact on the way people receive trusted information.
39:36
Because when you have that vacuum.
39:38
Of, uh, trusted information, no matter what context it's in, whether
39:42
it's through a person or through a tool, a digital tool, uh, you don't
39:46
have an appropriate replacement.
39:48
like there's gonna be a vacuum and other tools, will come in and take
39:53
over those voices and be, try to become those trusted, uh, advocates
39:57
for whatever position they have.
39:58
So I think that's a bit of the, the, the, the, the.
40:02
The, tension we're feeling, it's like it's a design problem to, to the extent
40:06
as well, not only a technology problem.
40:09
Jesse Hirsh: Well, and let me get you to elaborate on that.
40:11
'cause I think, you know, to talk about, say, the role of
40:13
design in Ag expert, right.
40:16
In, in, in distinguishing it as
40:20
a, a software that serves a specific user base, but also ensuring that that software
40:26
continues to serve that user base.
40:28
Mohamad Yaghi: to
40:29
Jesse Hirsh: use that as.
40:30
Kind of a case example to talk about
40:33
you see the role of design within the larger kind of innovation
40:38
strategy that you get to entertain.
40:41
Mohamad Yaghi: that you get to entertain.
40:43
Yeah,
40:44
Jesse Hirsh: and I think it's,
40:46
it's, it's a bit of a
40:48
right?
40:48
Because like we tested users, we learn,
40:50
Mohamad Yaghi: iterate, and I think, um, through that iteration, we're able
40:54
to design a better product because it should, again, like I've, I've
40:58
said this a few times in our chat.
41:00
It's.
41:00
You know, it's really about making sure that whatever user uses technology, they
41:06
don't feel like they're using technology.
41:08
Even though, again, accounting platforms are going to feel
41:11
technical no matter what you do.
41:12
It's an aid.
41:13
It is an age old problem, but how do you make it, do you make the
41:16
experience seamless for them so that they're not feeling that?
41:20
They're using a tool or a digital tech, like a digital interface.
41:23
It's more of an experience.
41:25
And I think that's one of one of the things that like we try our very best
41:29
to address when it comes to other ways of, of sharing that information.
41:35
And I'll pose this as a que a general question.
41:38
How have we been able to that the information we share is actually being.
41:43
Digested, how is it being interpreted?
41:46
And I think, again, I don't know what design steps we've taken to ensure that
41:51
those decisions or policy mechanisms out there have been designed to really address
41:56
the needs of different communities.
41:58
Again, it's not to say that they have or haven't, but it's more to say,
42:02
we, um, and I think be, if we're able to unlock the way that we can reach
42:07
out to people, again, the same way we look at our technology product,
42:11
I think we'll see far more success.
42:14
Jesse Hirsh: Well, and that's kind of matching the process
42:16
with the product as a iterative
42:19
cycle that makes the, the, the two stronger.
42:23
And, and, you know, all, all of this, all of this kind of makes
42:26
me, you know, come back to another.
42:28
Node that I use in my interviews with leaders.
42:31
You know, I, I sort of do the, what do you think of the future and,
42:35
know, kind of what's your vantage point?
42:37
And in your case, because we've been having this kind of
42:39
sprawling conversation, I'm, I'm not gonna frame it too much.
42:43
I'm, I'm just gonna kind of,
42:45
serve it up and, and you can hit it however you wish.
42:48
But what do you, from a policy perspective, what catches your interest?
42:53
Like, I, I'm gonna operate on the assumption.
42:56
That because you pay attention to enough of the pieces within the
43:00
sector and within technology, which is this whole other kind of mess.
43:05
What are the policies that pique your interest?
43:07
What are the policies that you know, you think should get more attention?
43:12
Or even more so, what are the policies that you kind of got in
43:15
your back pocket that you're wishing for some, you know, fool like me
43:18
to ask you to play on the table.
43:20
Mohamad Yaghi: you to play on the table.
43:22
Oh no, you're no fool.
43:23
Um, I would, so, you know, I, I, I, I generally avoid policy questions because
43:29
of my status in a Crown Corporation.
43:33
Jesse Hirsh: Um, but maybe I can talk about.
43:35
Mohamad Yaghi: what do I see at large trends, um, that are emerging?
43:39
I, you know, I think the, the fact, I think we in Canada
43:44
have an amazing opportunity.
43:46
Um.
43:48
I think, you know, in terms of national unity, that's one thing.
43:52
Uh, and I'm loving seeing that.
43:53
But I think when it comes to our place on the global stage,
43:57
Jesse Hirsh: I think.
43:58
Mohamad Yaghi: uh, a generational, maybe even, you know, multi-generational
44:02
opportunity for us to really take a bigger swing at the world stage.
44:06
Um.
44:07
And I think because of the status of our Agri Ag and AgriFood sector,
44:12
we
44:13
Jesse Hirsh: think that.
44:13
Mohamad Yaghi: had no better time than today.
44:15
I mean, like we've in FCC have launched, let's Grow Canada.
44:18
Uh, I'm sure you've seen it.
44:20
Um, it's an actual effort to really celebrate ag, but I think it's like,
44:23
how do we take it one step further and it's really to look outside of
44:26
Canada to see where can we again, help.
44:31
the void when it comes to food insecurity.
44:33
Like we have a responsibility as a nation.
44:35
And I don't not only say this as who's Lebanese and has seen the impact of
44:39
a food chain supply chain breakdown multiple times in my life, um, but I
44:44
also see it as, you know, in our wi in.
44:47
way we have, you know, adapted our system to be global in nature.
44:51
What is a, what's that next step and how can we take that next step?
44:55
I think that's one of the most important questions for the industry today.
44:58
There's always gonna be a niche, uh, policy that some groups will want to, to
45:02
vouch for, but I think one of the bigger opportunities right now is how can we be.
45:07
As entrepreneurial as possible, breaking down those doors, creating
45:10
those relationships with other jurisdictions, um, and sometimes
45:14
pressure creates opportunity.
45:15
I think this, this is one of those moments, uh, and leveraging all
45:20
the tools that are disposal will only enable us to do this further.
45:24
So, like for instance, in Ag Expert at the moment, you know, we're building out.
45:28
Analytical tools based on 23 years of data, how can we help other countries?
45:33
Not only, um, you know, how can we share that in that
45:36
knowledge with other countries?
45:37
How can we be that world leader to be, you know, to make Canada the world's
45:41
sustainable breadbasket That's, you know, the future I see for us, and if
45:45
there's one step that I really hope that we can take as an industry is to really
45:50
look outside of our borders to see.
45:52
What, you know, where can we strike up those partnerships?
45:55
Because again, I think we're in a really unique situation, not
45:58
only as a branding exercise as a country, but also as an industry
46:03
Jesse Hirsh: So I, I a hundred percent align with that.
46:05
And, you know, as an aside, I would love to see
46:09
Mohamad Yaghi: I
46:09
Jesse Hirsh: literacy around those opportunities.
46:12
'cause I,
46:13
I'm not sure a lot of people outside of the leadership of the sector
46:17
understand the depth and, and the breadth of, of those opportunities.
46:23
I, I wanted to, uh, uh.
46:24
Mohamad Yaghi: But I, I wanted
46:26
Jesse Hirsh: Match what you just said to uh, perhaps a naive thought,
46:30
which is
46:32
I think of the Mars Discovery District, when I think of the Vector
46:35
Institute, when I think of the University of Toronto, I kind of think
46:39
of this global reputation at least.
46:41
We used to have, I don't know if we still have it,
46:44
we are an AI powerhouse, that we're kind of a tech powerhouse.
46:49
Is there an opportunity to kind of
46:52
have dance partners between tech and agriculture
46:56
both of those sectors to court the global stage and be like, look at
47:01
the assets that Canada uniquely has.
47:03
And by the way, we're not Silicon Valley so you can trust us.
47:07
Like
47:07
do you see a play there or am I being silly?
47:10
Mohamad Yaghi: am I being silly?
47:12
Jesse Hirsh: I know, I totally see it.
47:14
Mohamad Yaghi: the
47:14
Jesse Hirsh: I think that's
47:14
Mohamad Yaghi: to, to ensure that we get,
47:17
Jesse Hirsh: like one thing I always
47:18
Mohamad Yaghi: is, you know, again, I'm veering into more
47:21
territory.
47:22
I, I don't want us to compare ourselves to other jurisdictions when, let's
47:26
say like Silicon Valley to North.
47:28
We are, we don't need to be.
47:30
We can be our own thing.
47:31
And I think that being our own thing is gonna make us even better.
47:34
Um, because again, Silicon Valley has its own origin stories and it has its
47:38
own, um, you know, mission and purpose.
47:41
And I think we as Canadians have our own mission and purpose as well.
47:43
And I think we are much more global when it comes to the
47:46
impact of the technology we built.
47:48
So I don't see why we, and again.
47:50
Looking at Toronto, it is a reflection of the world.
47:53
I, I believe more than 50% of Toronto's population is foreign born.
47:58
Like no other city in the world has that stat.
48:00
I think that's something to celebrate, uh, because we are that,
48:04
uh, global village to an extent.
48:07
Uh, I, I mean, I don't know what other, I don't know who could define themselves
48:10
as a global village, if not Toronto.
48:12
So celebrating not only our diversity, but the fact that, you know, we have so many
48:17
mechanisms to leverage Canadians with ties outside Canada to help I help boost those
48:24
exports, help boost those partnerships and connections, help boost the, the
48:28
technology that we're building today.
48:30
And I think us being more bold in our vision about, again, I love the,
48:34
the way you framed the, that dance between agriculture and technology.
48:38
think we are on the cutting edge of it today, and I don't see any
48:41
reason, you know, outs and if you look at the commitments FCC, um, has
48:46
made, um, over the past year, um, I think it's just a reflection of our
48:51
commitment to helping the sector make that, um, make, make, make that step.
48:57
Jesse Hirsh: Well, and again, I think you, you and I are, are in our jam
49:01
today are striking very similar chords.
49:04
'cause I've previously written about how the secret to Canada becoming a superpower
49:10
is embracing our diasporas.
49:12
Embracing our, our networks of diasporas.
49:14
Our ecosystems of diasporas.
49:16
'cause
49:17
Mohamad Yaghi: of
49:18
Jesse Hirsh: comes through Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, and Vancouver.
49:21
And if we could leverage those a. On the level of food which is already happening,
49:26
and leverage that on the level of agriculture.
49:29
That's what allows us to your point, to feed the world, to be
49:31
the sustainable bread basket.
49:34
what is the, from your perspective, and this is me trying to wrap it up,
49:39
where does leadership fall into that?
49:42
And, and obviously I've been trying to celebrate your leadership through
49:45
the course of this conversation,
49:47
but, but this is where you get to.
49:50
know, thi this is where I'm not trying to put it all on your shoulders, right?
49:53
I'm not saying that
49:54
you, Mohamed, you need to save us as a sector.
49:57
This is where you get to push the,
50:00
you get to push the hot potato forward.
50:02
You get to help me think about the questions I asked a future guests.
50:07
'cause I think you've done a fantastic job of framing the opportunity
50:12
and incentivizing us as a sector to step up to the challenge.
50:17
But I guess here's the question.
50:19
What are we missing, right?
50:21
What, what, what are the pieces that our leadership that, uh, the
50:24
various elements of our sector
50:26
maybe you take for granted,
50:28
but that you're frustrated that other leaders and other organisations
50:32
are not valuing I in the way that, that, again, from your vision
50:37
today, uh, you clearly see a lot of opportunities for us in the world.
50:41
Mohamad Yaghi: for us in the world.
50:43
Jesse Hirsh: Um.
50:45
Mohamad Yaghi: first off, again, thanks for all the questions today.
50:47
This has been such an amazing chat, and I think we need more of these
50:50
convers, I think we need you, Jesse.
50:52
Uh, that's the missing piece, more of these conversations.
50:56
Jesse Hirsh: I may take you up on that.
50:57
Please
50:57
Mohamad Yaghi: I continue, please do.
51:01
Um.
51:01
I, you know, one thi this is gonna sound, I gonna go back to my first
51:07
story, uh, and our conversation, the, I think we have everything, you know,
51:12
like there's nothing missing for us.
51:15
I
51:17
Jesse Hirsh: It's just,
51:18
not about taking that
51:19
Mohamad Yaghi: there's, um, sometimes I'll talk about technology for a second here.
51:24
sometimes feel that we need to get all the puzzle pieces before we make
51:28
a move, and we sh we don't need that.
51:30
You know, failing is really helpful.
51:34
Um, as a, we, I had my own Ag Tech startup and I often ask other
51:39
founders, uh, if they had the same strength as mine, which is.
51:43
Pure ignorance, um, because nobody, if you knew all the things you needed to do
51:49
as a founder, you wouldn't even start it.
51:52
So I think we need to go into these initiatives a bit.
51:56
Again, we just need to trust ourselves that we're gonna be fine at the end of it.
52:00
Because again, we have all the pieces on our side.
52:02
We have the momentum, we have the support, we have the, uh,
52:06
we have gov. Again, having.
52:08
A system again, does it?
52:11
I think, you know, there's such a reputational, um, uh, positive reputation
52:16
when it comes to our own legal system.
52:18
that's an amazing asset to have.
52:21
I mean, like there are many jurisdictions that don't have that, and that's why
52:24
companies avoid those jurisdictions.
52:26
Like Canada has everything we need to get started, and I think sometimes we
52:30
just need to be a bit more bold in, in the way we take those risks because.
52:35
Again, I know it's hard for f some folks to take some risks, but I think
52:39
we have everything in our corner to make those, to make those bold bets.
52:43
Um, and sometimes we need is a little bit of ignorance, uh, going into these things.
52:48
Um, and maybe to, to quote, uh, the famous country singer.
52:51
I forgot her name, but, you know, let Jesus take the wheel a bit.
52:54
Um, so
52:57
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
52:58
Well, and to your point, I always, in Toronto, I used to always hear the phrase,
53:02
fail early, fail often, and it was not something I found easy to do in the city.
53:07
But as a farmer, boy do I get to fail early, fail often all the time
53:13
and learn from that.
53:14
Right?
53:14
So it's, it's phenomenal how to, I think the through line of our conversation,
53:19
there's remarkable parallels between the technology sector
53:23
and the agricultural sector.
53:24
And if we can only get them recognising that and dancing together, Canada's
53:29
got quite quite the potential.
53:30
Mohamad Yaghi: got quite
53:31
the
53:32
Jesse Hirsh: I totally
53:33
agree.
53:34
So the last, uh, question segment of the show is the shout outs.
53:38
this is where we say to our guests, is there any leaders that you look up to?
53:42
And this is meant to
53:44
be an academy Award acceptance speech.
53:46
This is kind of gut instinct, the names that come to mind right away.
53:51
But Mohamed, who do you look up to that we should also be paying attention to?
53:55
Mohamad Yaghi: we should.
53:55
Also we pay attention to,
53:57
Jesse Hirsh: Um, I.
53:57
Mohamad Yaghi: I mean, I, I have to.
53:59
Okay.
53:59
I, I really, really don't mean this just because, um, she, like, you know, the
54:04
CEO of fccs, uh, you know, I, I'm really, really trying to avoid this, like, suck
54:08
up, but like, uh, or kiss ass nature here.
54:11
But it's, I, I think, you know, the steps that Justine has taken this.
54:16
just seeing the way we transform as a Crown Corporation over the past two
54:20
to three years has been remarkable.
54:23
I think, you know, uh, in making the bold bets, being the,
54:26
the, the catalyst for change.
54:30
Jesse Hirsh: I think.
54:31
Mohamad Yaghi: that our public institutions have the ability to
54:34
take those risks in order for the private sector to follow, um, I
54:38
think is incredible because we're putting agriculture far more on
54:42
the agenda than it ever has been.
54:44
And I think that's something to worth, worth celebrating.
54:45
So, um, on one hand if I can just have, uh, Justine, but if you want
54:50
a more, like, again, like a, a, a different leader, I look up to, oh boy.
54:55
Um.
54:56
know, you got me there, a leader I look up to, again, I
55:01
Jesse Hirsh: Always gonna,
55:02
Mohamad Yaghi: of course, you know, of course there's my family and
55:05
Jesse Hirsh: I was gonna say, you're allowed to say your dad.
55:07
You wouldn't be the first
55:09
Mohamad Yaghi: Oh,
55:10
say, I mean, you know, honestly, I I, I'd love to, to mention my, my
55:14
parents, uh, for sure just 'cause uh, they're, they inspire me constantly
55:19
with the resilience, and I hate using that word as levity because we've
55:23
been resilient way too many times.
55:24
But their ability, their ability to.
55:29
You know, again, always see the positive in the world is what
55:32
keeps me positive, honestly.
55:34
Um, because even though they've been through so many tragedies in their
55:38
lifetime, um, you know, just seeing their, their ability to look at tomorrow as a
55:43
be new and better day, um, you know, it is just, it's just foundational for me.
55:49
So, um, but yeah, so I would say my parents, both of them.
55:52
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
55:52
Great selections
55:54
thanks again, Mohamed.
55:55
This has been a tour to force and this is always the point at the, uh, the
56:00
end of the episode where I say, we gotta have you back, uh, only because
56:05
we've only scratched the surface.
56:07
And because I am conspiring to put together a panel on AI and
56:12
agriculture as a future episode,
56:15
there's so much to get into,
56:17
in, in terms of the possibilities and the opportunities.
56:20
So thank you so much.
56:21
Mohamad Yaghi: So
56:22
Jesse Hirsh: Thank you so much for having
56:23
Mohamad Yaghi: and I can't wait for the next nerd gem,
56:25
uh, to come around the corner.
56:26
It'll be fun to participate.
56:29
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
56:30
Mohamad Yaghi: Right
56:32
Jesse Hirsh: And of course the thing about a good nerd jam
56:35
is it's inherently inclusive.
56:37
It's not meant to alienate, it's not make meant to make you feel dumb.
56:41
Quite the opposite.
56:43
We want you to feel smart.
56:45
We want you to lean in and go open claw.
56:48
What was Jesse talking about when he mentioned open claw
56:52
and what do they mean by.
56:54
Agents, what are these agents that everyone's talking about?
56:59
I don't know how familiar you are with this lingo.
57:02
Part of what we're trying to achieve here with the podcast is
57:05
kind of prime your brain so that you start hearing these words here.
57:10
Then you start seeing these words elsewhere and they
57:13
start to become legible.
57:14
They start to make sense again, this is partly how we're trying to insert AI
57:21
into the larger threads and conversations we're having here on the future Herd.
57:26
We are of course, focused on the future, on the future of the AgriFood sector, and
57:32
the thing about artificial intelligence is on the one hand, a lot of people are.
57:36
Deathly afraid of it.
57:38
And on the other people kind of just integrating it into their systems,
57:43
into their lives and they're not really thinking or talking or philosophising.
57:48
And so that's why I really loved talking with Mohammed.
57:51
'cause it allowed us to.
57:53
Not only get into the blue sky, big picture stuff that I love so much,
57:58
but he brought us into the details, into the practical, into the applied
58:03
aspects of agriculture and AgriFood.
58:07
That I think really speaks to innovation on the front lines.
58:11
And, and if anything, that may be one of the themes that we come back
58:15
to, which is how do we get these tools in the hands of farmers?
58:19
How do we ensure that it helps increase their yields, their
58:22
productivity keeps their animals?
58:24
Safer, healthier, more productive.
58:27
These may be abstract concepts to those of you who are just learning
58:31
about ai, but you know, quite frankly, those of us who are as excited at this
58:36
moment by the power of this technology.
58:40
You know, we're kind of becoming almost evangelical, a little, uh, popular
58:44
education when it comes to helping people.
58:47
Understand the risks, uh, but also the reward.
58:51
So, uh, thanks again.
58:52
This has been another fantastic episode.
58:54
Uh, you could check us out at the future, her.ca.
58:57
Of course, there's Commons Do the Future, her.ca, which is our
59:02
interactive aspect of our website, and we got some special episodes
59:07
coming up, including our first panel.
59:10
So, uh, we'll catch you again real soon.