Latest / International Flavor: Where the Truth Tastes Better / Underground Tests, Broken Norms, and a Caller’s ‘Particular Paradise’ — Nuclear Reality Check, Part 1 — History, Engineering, Deterrence

Transcript

Underground Tests, Broken Norms, and a Caller’s ‘Particular Paradise’ — Nuclear Reality Check, Part 1 — History, Engineering, Deterrence · International Flavor: Where the Truth Tastes Better

• 0:01
  We interrupt this incredibly awesome music to bring you some incredibly awesome political
• 0:07
  talk on damn radio.
• 0:10
  Hello.
• 0:11
  Good evening.
• 0:11
  Welcome.
• 0:12
  I am Samuel Trapp.
• 0:14
  This is International Flavor.
• 0:16
  You are on damn radio with me.
• 0:20
  If you feel like calling in tonight, please do 573-746-8020.
• 0:25
  Here I sit live at the Lake Ozark real estate of the art studio.
• 0:33
  We're having a really good time.
• 0:35
  I was notified this morning and I don't know, something's going on.
• 0:39
  They've asked me for more articles, which I'm going to supply.
• 0:44
  Last week I told you that after my show, I wrote a Russian version of my show from the
• 0:52
  other day.
• 0:53
  That show was What's Worse.
• 0:55
  Basically I was critiquing both Biden's auto pen debacle and Trump's bombing of criminals
• 1:04
  without trial or evidence, and well, allegedly criminals, you know, narco-terrorism, it sounds
• 1:11
  like R-W-Bush.
• 1:13
  At any rate, I wrote an article about it afterward, Naruscom in Russian, and I sent it in.
• 1:20
  They published it already.
• 1:21
  They published it, sent me a notice this morning and said, oh, forgot to ask you if it was okay
• 1:29
  to publish.
• 1:29
  I said, well, that's why I sent it to you.
• 1:31
  I said, why don't you give me another topic and I will send you something there next week
• 1:36
  perhaps.
• 1:37
  At any rate, my critiques, well, I like to turn them into written published articles
• 1:46
  and this is, I don't know, number four, I think.
• 1:49
  And then I've been in TV with them several times and done some interviews.
• 1:53
  They did an interview of me a week or two ago, something like that.
• 1:58
  And I think after tonight's show, this one I definitely want to write about.
• 2:04
  If you don't like nuclear weapons, if you don't like nuclear bombing, if you don't know
• 2:09
  anything about nuclear testing, this is the show for you.
• 2:12
  Many years ago, I was a diplomatic interpreter, everybody knows that, and I did nuclear arms
• 2:24
  control.
• 2:25
  I thought we were doing things very well and doing the right thing.
• 2:31
  And a couple of weeks ago, everything goes so fast because I got so much going on in
• 2:38
  life right now and days are just zooming on by, okay?
• 2:43
  And nonsense, I don't know, running out of time in the day.
• 2:48
  And something happened not long ago.
• 2:52
  We're talking about the Buri Vesti Nikin, I was talking about that, and the nuclear
• 2:58
  weapon that loitering flew for 14,000 kilometers, sat in the air for 15 hours, 17 hours, something
• 3:07
  like that, because it's a Russian arms that can move around in munition.
• 3:12
  There's been another test that was done on the Russian side.
• 3:18
  And suddenly we're realizing what I've been saying for at least, at least on this show,
• 3:25
  for at least a year and a half, and before that for much longer, the Russians are way
• 3:29
  ahead of us in nuclear testing.
• 3:31
  And so tonight what I want to do is go through the treaties, go through what I used to do,
• 3:38
  go through where it all went and how it happened and talk about some of the disgusting parts
• 3:48
  of nuclear testing and some of the things that go on in the world, which are really,
• 3:56
  you know, I want to no BS sort of talk about what is talking the other day, Donald Trump
• 4:05
  said he was, well, we're going to start, we might do some nuclear testing again.
• 4:11
  Well, guess what?
• 4:12
  That is something you don't just, it's not a switch you turn on and off.
• 4:16
  And I want to get into a little bit about that as well.
• 4:18
  So you know, underground nuclear tests are not explosions in a movie.
• 4:24
  They just aren't.
• 4:26
  And it's nonsense to think that they are or could be, because that isn't how it works.
• 4:34
  And so I want to tell the truth, you know, kind of in a grown up way, you know, you can't
• 4:40
  be Donald Trump, just go, you know what, I think we should start some nuclear testing.
• 4:44
  It's a buildup.
• 4:45
  It's not just something you do.
• 4:48
  Underground nuclear testing, it isn't, you know, it's not a cartoon mushroom cloud or,
• 4:53
  you know, a James Bond villain pulling a leisure lever or pushing a button.
• 4:58
  You know, it's geology, it's engineering, it's nerve, it's surgery, nuclear surgery
• 5:04
  underneath a rock.
• 5:06
  I mean, they pick their geology the way a surgeon picks, you know, an incision tool.
• 5:12
  They drill shafts deep as a skyscraper.
• 5:16
  They're going down 2000 feet and then some.
• 5:21
  They lower a precision device in a steel can, lace it with cables like a Christmas tree
• 5:26
  wired to a thousand different instruments, and then they backfill the hole with gravel,
• 5:33
  with sand, with concrete, you know, with and it has to be the same layers of what they
• 5:42
  took out.
• 5:43
  So you dig a hole and then you have to refill it precisely as you emptied it with a nuclear
• 5:49
  bomb in it or it defeats the purpose of the test.
• 5:52
  And then you got to watch out for venting is what they call it.
• 5:58
  So if you did this right, the earth swallows the incredible violence of a nuclear explosion.
• 6:05
  The seismographs all, you know, give the data that you were looking for.
• 6:09
  The politics, you know, never, you know, never lets it go.
• 6:14
  One side's against the other is for or both of them are just putting money into it.
• 6:18
  But the public really never sees a thing unless it goes wrong.
• 6:24
  And then we find out whether a nuclear bomb is the boss or these idiots in Washington.
• 6:28
  Right.
• 6:29
  So I've been there.
• 6:30
  I've been in the Nevada nuclear test site.
• 6:33
  Long days, longer nights, you know, hot dust, diesel, you know, everybody, there are shots
• 6:39
  going on.
• 6:40
  And a lot of these tests, they named them for while I was there anyway, for Texas counties.
• 6:47
  One I remember that was going on while we were there was Bayer, B-E-X-A-R, like said,
• 6:53
  but you say it like Bayer.
• 6:55
  And that I know I was there for part of that one.
• 6:59
  And there were others that were there.
• 7:01
  And I can't remember the names of, but they were usually named.
• 7:05
  There was a whole list of them that were going for the counties of Texas.
• 7:09
  People think you just pushed a button, but that's not true at all.
• 7:12
  It took a year to dig the hole, get it done in nine months to a year, maybe longer, depending
• 7:20
  on what they were doing.
• 7:22
  We followed checklists, the Russians verified.
• 7:26
  Why did people go underground nuclear testing at all?
• 7:30
  If you don't know the history of this, this is scary stuff.
• 7:33
  When I got there, I had to watch videos and go back and see everything that occurred in
• 7:38
  the above ground testing.
• 7:39
  Because in 1963, the world had decided it had had enough of fallout drifting across
• 7:47
  borders and into children's milk bottles in the nearby areas.
• 7:53
  So what they had was a limited test ban treaty.
• 7:56
  So this limited test ban treaty slammed the door on atmospheric, underwater, and outer
• 8:02
  space explosions.
• 8:03
  So underground was the compromise, and it was legal as long as you could contain it.
• 8:08
  And containment is the word.
• 8:11
  How do you contain a nuclear weapon?
• 8:13
  I mean, you could argue that warheads and yield, these are important all night long.
• 8:18
  But unless you have tests, you can't figure out how much.
• 8:23
  I always used to make jokes about it, old dude named Ernie out there.
• 8:26
  And I would say, how much do you need to verify that you can blow up another Hiroshima, another
• 8:35
  Nagasaki?
• 8:36
  I mean, what do you got to do to say, oh geez, you know, we could do that for a lot less.
• 8:41
  But you spend billions getting there.
• 8:43
  And I don't know.
• 8:44
  It's not that I was ever against, it's that I was never really for.
• 8:49
  You know, it's like, I would always argue my whole life, that's what I've done my whole
• 8:54
  life, it feels like.
• 8:56
  But the underground testing would live and die on whether the rock held in the explosion.
• 9:03
  So I mean, they learned the hard way.
• 9:05
  You know, there were a couple events, one named Bainbury, where containment failed.
• 9:10
  Radioactive gases vented, and the lesson was written in pretty large letters.
• 9:15
  The Earth doesn't always keep its nuclear secrets.
• 9:19
  And after that, the rules got tighter.
• 9:21
  I forget what year that was, in the late 60s and in the 70s, Washington and Moscow agreed
• 9:26
  to cap the size of the underground testing.
• 9:30
  No mega bangs under the desert or the tundra.
• 9:33
  Engineers got good at calculating how deep they would have to bury something, how deep
• 9:39
  you would have to go and get how much yield.
• 9:41
  The rule of thumbs, how much site-specific data.
• 9:45
  You know, and that's why they always did them in the same spots.
• 9:47
  Russians did them in Semipalatinsk, and they did them in Novy Zemla.
• 9:52
  Semipalatinsk was in Kazakhstan, Novy Zemla was in the Arctic Circle, okay?
• 9:58
  And all of ours, well, not all, but the largest bulk of them, Nevada Nuclear Test Site.
• 10:05
  And we did more than anyone else, okay?
• 10:08
  And so the goal was to make the mountain take it.
• 10:12
  So you could do horizontal testing, and you could do vertical testing, and the vertical
• 10:16
  is you drill a hole in the middle of the desert, fill it back in, blow it up, right?
• 10:21
  But you could also go into the side of the mountain, and I've been on both sorts of test
• 10:24
  sites.
• 10:25
  You go into these tunnels that are, they bore a hole 10 feet tall, you know, 2,000 feet
• 10:31
  inside a mountain, fill it with a bomb, back it out, fill in the chamber the way that it
• 10:41
  had been taken out.
• 10:42
  And then you blow it up, and the mountain collapses in on the nuclear bomb, and you
• 10:47
  move on the next mountain.
• 10:50
  And that's what we did for years.
• 10:52
  So we're gonna kind of do a tour of the entire underground era and the politics that wrapped
• 10:59
  around it.
• 11:00
  Nevada, hundreds of shots.
• 11:02
  The landscape is pockmarked by subsidence craters so that, you know, they subside on
• 11:08
  top of the nuclear bomb.
• 11:09
  And they were saying, so the half-life of one of those things is so many years, I don't
• 11:14
  even remember, but it was an ungodly amount.
• 11:17
  So for half a life, and none of them are even in the second half-life is what I think, you
• 11:24
  know, because it's a long time.
• 11:27
  And so, and there's hundreds of these things underneath the Nevada desert and underneath
• 11:32
  the mountains inside.
• 11:33
  And the same thing goes with Semipalatinsk in Kazakhstan, where the old Soviet polygon
• 11:40
  was a testing site, where the Cold War, you know, was hot under the Kazakhstan steppe,
• 11:46
  and where all the human cost is measured, you know, it's huge.
• 11:50
  And it looks like we're going to have a bit of a discussion and see where we go.
• 11:55
  Hello, caller, might I assist you in some way?
• 12:00
  Hi, Sam.
• 12:01
  Hi there.
• 12:02
  Notice the time?
• 12:05
  No.
• 12:06
  Why?
• 12:07
  Just take a check.
• 12:09
  9-11?
• 12:10
  I don't, what do you mean?
• 12:12
  This is an emergency.
• 12:14
  This is a 9-1-1 call, bro.
• 12:19
  Well, here's my thinking.
• 12:21
  My thinking is this, that until we can quit building nuclear weapons to fight on this
• 12:30
  planet, then we're doomed, man.
• 12:32
  As long as that's a thing, we're doomed.
• 12:34
  We got to figure out a way to not let that be a freaking thing.
• 12:39
  That's going to be my thesis this evening, is how moronic this all is.
• 12:44
  There you go, bro.
• 12:45
  And I said it back then.
• 12:47
  I said it then.
• 12:48
  It's like, you know, I'm glad we're ending this.
• 12:51
  I was on the ground for one of the last underground nuclear explosions we did.
• 12:58
  I think the last was in 93.
• 13:00
  It's here in my research, because I put them in there and put them by name.
• 13:03
  And I know I was there during the last three years of it all.
• 13:06
  I was there.
• 13:07
  You were there when they were blowing bombs up.
• 13:10
  Indeed.
• 13:11
  Right.
• 13:11
  Yeah.
• 13:12
  And the story is, it is an incredible story of how these things went.
• 13:18
  And I want to go through the entire history for you.
• 13:21
  That's what I want to do.
• 13:22
  Oh, good.
• 13:23
  Well, then I would, I really enjoy engaging in conversation with you, because you and
• 13:29
  I have a lot of, you know, a lot of common thoughts.
• 13:32
  And so I did call with another tertiary item.
• 13:36
  Let's do it.
• 13:37
  You're married to a woman, a Muslim woman.
• 13:40
  True.
• 13:41
  Okay.
• 13:42
  So, so here's my question.
• 13:45
  Do you, are you a Muslim or do you have a certain denomination that you subscribe to
• 13:51
  or anything?
• 13:52
  I do not.
• 13:53
  If, if I were to select one, it would, I have nothing against the Mormonism I grew up with.
• 14:01
  It's just, I'm not one of those who, I mean, you've already know why, why I, why I think
• 14:07
  the way I do.
• 14:08
  I don't believe in doing something during the week that I, or how do I want to put
• 14:13
  that?
• 14:14
  I don't, I don't appear, I don't want to appear to be one way on Sunday and people think other
• 14:18
  of me during the week.
• 14:19
  And people may not agree with that, but I don't need a congregation to a congregation.
• 14:26
  I mean, to, to have faith, to have, have what I have.
• 14:31
  So, so I, I don't know if I explained myself well enough on that.
• 14:36
  I get a lot of people that think I'm completely non-religious, including those in my family.
• 14:41
  And and I always tell them, no, you know, I, I don't, I'm not a denier.
• 14:47
  I'm not a hater.
• 14:48
  I'm not anything like that.
• 14:49
  It's just, I do not need the platitudes of other people to recognize me as some kind
• 14:58
  of a, a saint, you know, but first of all, I'm not.
• 15:02
  And second of all, I don't believe, I don't, I don't, I don't believe that way about any
• 15:10
  particular church.
• 15:12
  If I have a problem with the Mormon church or with any other church, it's that saying
• 15:16
  we are the one true religion.
• 15:21
  I truly have problem with that because many millions of Hindu believe something else.
• 15:30
  Many millions of, you know, Chinamen have a different religion and, you know, many other
• 15:37
  people believe different ways.
• 15:38
  I believe there, that there are various ways to get your rear end into the paradise, that
• 15:47
  particular paradise that you believe in.
• 15:49
  And I'm not necessarily sure that the means of getting there is the catalyst.
• 15:59
  You know what I mean?
• 16:00
  It's a, I think you have to have some basic beliefs and some of them have to go.
• 16:05
  But, and I'm also a, we could argue and talk about the Godhead and all of those things.
• 16:14
  I prefer not to engage in those things because it's a circular argument, kind of like, you
• 16:20
  know, the old chicken and the egg, you know, it, you could argue about it forever and ever.
• 16:28
  Amen.
• 16:28
  And the same goes with things like, if you're going to get to paradise, it's got to be something
• 16:37
  that is between you and your God and your beliefs.
• 16:43
  And as long as a person believes in being a good person and believes in certain things,
• 16:50
  I am unwilling to condemn anyone.
• 16:54
  You know, you want to say you believe in, well, I don't want to go too far.
• 16:58
  Well, I'm writing a book.
• 16:59
  Generally, I'm Christian, you know, but it's very much so because my beliefs in Mormon
• 17:05
  mirror most of that stuff.
• 17:07
  But I do have certain issues with every religion, so.
• 17:11
  I'm writing a book.
• 17:13
  Cool.
• 17:13
  Okay.
• 17:14
  And I'd like to quote you.
• 17:15
  Please do.
• 17:16
  On something.
• 17:17
  And I'll put it in the book.
• 17:19
  It's going to be a semi, you know, novel kind of a, you know, a novella, if you will, based
• 17:28
  on, you know, facts of history and whatnot, and just the names and places are changed
• 17:32
  to be innocent.
• 17:34
  Awesome.
• 17:34
  Well, I'm not innocent.
• 17:36
  So there you go.
• 17:39
  Never have been.
• 17:40
  Well, I appreciate your call.
• 17:42
  No, no, no.
• 17:42
  Wait a second.
• 17:43
  I'd like to quote you on your particular paradise.
• 17:48
  Isn't that what you said?
• 17:49
  You said your own particular paradise.
• 17:52
  That is correct.
• 17:53
  The word you used.
• 17:55
  That's right.
• 17:55
  I think the profound words, my brother, because if you don't know where you want to be, you're
• 18:00
  never gonna happen.
• 18:02
  Get there.
• 18:02
  That's a good point.
• 18:03
  You gotta know what your particular paradise is.
• 18:07
  So I'm going to say in this book from this radio talk show host and this fucking Ruski
• 18:11
  or whatever you are, I don't know what you are, man.
• 18:15
  I was born in Cincinnati, dude.
• 18:17
  Come on.
• 18:19
  Whatever.
• 18:20
  You're fucking, you got a lot of, you're like a double knot spy, Jethro.
• 18:25
  Well, I can only hope.
• 18:28
  Yeah, no, you just seem really.
• 18:30
  I just translated my article into English.
• 18:33
  I wrote it in Russian and it's called What's Worse, Biden's Auto Signature or Trump's Bombing
• 18:41
  of Criminals Without Trial or Evidence.
• 18:45
  How long?
• 18:47
  That's funny.
• 18:48
  That's very, very dichotomous.
• 18:50
  Well, and it just got published in Russia.
• 18:54
  It was published.
• 18:55
  How long is it?
• 18:56
  How long of an article?
• 18:57
  How many?
• 18:58
  Like 30 paragraphs?
• 19:00
  22,000, 2,500 words, something like that.
• 19:04
  Pretty long article.
• 19:05
  Yeah.
• 19:06
  So I would have to download it and read it in Russian.
• 19:10
  Well, they're translators.
• 19:11
  Well, I translated it on Google because you can take any website and do it.
• 19:18
  If you, I see some of your emails, I'll send you the link.
• 19:21
  Okay, do.
• 19:22
  Please.
• 19:23
  Please do that.
• 19:24
  That would make it much, that would cut my search.
• 19:27
  And there's a bunch more.
• 19:28
  They've listed the other ones because I wrote one a week ago that was Samuel Trapp's prior
• 19:34
  article.
• 19:35
  They spelled Trapp wrong in English, but it says a bridge instead of the Bering Strait.
• 19:40
  How to transform the Arctic from a fault line into a connected line, which explores how
• 19:48
  Russia and the United States could significantly impact the international situation.
• 19:53
  Because I wrote another one about that.
• 19:55
  And I'm going to write one on this nuclear testing, but I got to get through it tonight
• 19:59
  before I can.
• 20:01
  That's the thing.
• 20:02
  I mean, here's my thing on that.
• 20:04
  We should just quit it.
• 20:05
  You know, all of us.
• 20:06
  What are there, four different factions, maybe five or six that are fighting over this nuclear,
• 20:12
  you know?
• 20:12
  Well, I'm going to go through it if I have full time tonight.
• 20:16
  And if maybe, I can't figure out how to do it, but JR, I'll have to come in and extend
• 20:23
  the recording if I end up going over.
• 20:26
  And then that way, because I don't want it to not all get recorded.
• 20:31
  But JR has to do that if he happens to be listening, because otherwise, I have to close
• 20:38
  right on time, because I've set it up that way.
• 20:41
  And I know he knows how to do it, but I don't use my phone.
• 20:47
  I'm not a very good communicator while I'm in the studio, you know?
• 20:51
  I get that.
• 20:51
  You're good on the air, though, Sam.
• 20:53
  So yeah, just you're doing a lot of good things.
• 20:58
  I'm really intrigued by the fact that you know so much about Russia and then so much
• 21:05
  about the U.S.
• 21:05
  Well, it's been a history for me.
• 21:07
  That's what I...
• 21:08
  It's an extreme hobby.
• 21:10
  You could literally write a novel.
• 21:13
  Well, I'm writing one, and that was the other thing I wanted to tell you.
• 21:17
  I'm writing the...
• 21:18
  It's called, and it's being edited even now.
• 21:23
  I have written, of 11 chapters, about 100,000 words.
• 21:29
  I have written probably 80,000 of them.
• 21:35
  And it's the tale of corruption of Missouri.
• 21:38
  It's the tale.
• 21:39
  It's the Sam Trapp tale from beginning to end, naming names, going through.
• 21:47
  It's called American Nightmare, the story of Samuel Trapp.
• 21:52
  The Sam Trapp trail.
• 21:54
  That's a good...
• 21:55
  That's like the Trail of Tears.
• 21:58
  It's exciting because, and it really is an American Nightmare.
• 22:02
  I mean, you work your life off, and you have done so many positive things, and then the
• 22:08
  corrupt a-holes in government that want to destroy you get to reach out and do it.
• 22:15
  Somebody was...
• 22:16
  So I'm going to...
• 22:18
  And if I don't get this done, truthfully, I have no problem going with the flow of the
• 22:23
  show and talking about this tomorrow night or some other night.
• 22:27
  Doesn't matter.
• 22:28
  The nuclear testing, I mean, the underground testing.
• 22:32
  But I'm talking on my book and talking about it in the government overreach, which is even
• 22:40
  worse in Missouri because more powerful than the government, more powerful than any branch
• 22:46
  of government, even the judiciary, sits the Missouri Bar.
• 22:52
  And the Missouri Bar is the evil spider at the top of the web, spinning and controlling
• 23:01
  the entire apparatus.
• 23:04
  And my book is Naming Names, and that's exactly what I'm going to do.
• 23:11
  Is Jay Ashcroft in there?
• 23:16
  No, I didn't run into him too much.
• 23:18
  My protagonists were Jay Nixon, and his son and my son were best of friends in high school.
• 23:28
  And there's some crap about him.
• 23:32
  There's a federal judge who used to be in Lebanon, who's a real piece of work.
• 23:40
  There were people targeting me from the very beginning on some of the stuff that I did.
• 23:46
  And so I definitely plan on going there, and I've written like 75, 80 percent of it is
• 23:55
  already written, ready to go.
• 23:57
  I just have to, the trouble is, is there's so little time.
• 24:01
  I had hoped to be done with that by the end of September or by the end of August when
• 24:05
  I went to Russia the last time.
• 24:08
  And now my goal is to finish it before I go to Russia over New Year's.
• 24:14
  I'm trying to go there for Russian New Year's and Russian Christmas, which is on January
• 24:21
  the 7th, and I want to go to St. Petersburg for that.
• 24:24
  And I'm going to do some more.
• 24:28
  I want to create, I mean, in all seriousness, what I think would be a good thing to create
• 24:34
  is something along the lines of a Russian-American or American-Russian, but for some reason it
• 24:42
  always sounds better Russian-American, sort of friendship league, Russian-American exchange
• 24:50
  of information.
• 24:51
  Part of the reason that I write these articles and send them over there is really to, because
• 24:57
  I met some of these people on my nonsensical trip over to the BRICS conference, and I really,
• 25:02
  I mean, who the hell am I to go over there, you know, but I did not want to take somebody's
• 25:12
  word for it.
• 25:13
  You know, you cannot take anyone's word for it here, and you certainly cannot follow the
• 25:19
  news, if you want to call it that, or the talk show morons that are out there.
• 25:25
  And not that I'm any sort of genius, but I'm going to give you a real impression of what
• 25:32
  there was, you know what I mean, of what happened, of what I saw, of what I took in
• 25:39
  from all of these different people, and I'm telling you, I am watching, and I have been,
• 25:47
  and when I first heard about this BRICS, people were like, what the hell are you talking about,
• 25:52
  BRICS?
• 25:53
  What are you, you know, but lots of people were saying what, I was like, look, I hate
• 25:57
  to say it, but I truly believe that's the future.
• 26:00
  I truly believe the rest of the world is so tired of our global shenanigans in the BS
• 26:10
  of regime change, which is continuing under the old Trumpster right now.
• 26:15
  People are sick of it.
• 26:18
  And I saw an article today that said he is going, what he's doing right now is he is
• 26:25
  forcing, just like always, South America, he is forcing them.
• 26:31
  He just signed an agreement over in Osean countries in Asia last week.
• 26:35
  That was the big deal.
• 26:37
  He's trying to counter everything that BRICS is doing because he sees that the global South
• 26:44
  is disappearing and is going toward China, India, Russia, and we are on the outside and
• 26:51
  he sees it.
• 26:52
  I think he saw it beforehand, but never once did he mention BRICS or anything about it
• 26:59
  on the campaign trail.
• 27:01
  He mentioned it about three, four days after he had won the election, not before he came
• 27:08
  in.
• 27:09
  And that's when he said, I'm going to punish those who try to replace the dollar.
• 27:14
  And that is when I knew that he's a globalist too.
• 27:20
  Maybe not in the same, maybe not in the same way, but it's the same damn thing that we've
• 27:28
  been doing for the last hundred years.
• 27:31
  And he is trying to prevent it from collapsing and us losing our, our, our power that we've
• 27:38
  had forever.
• 27:39
  Who is he?
• 27:40
  Who, who, who are you referring to?
• 27:42
  Trumpster.
• 27:43
  Oh, bro.
• 27:45
  Come on, man.
• 27:46
  That's what he's doing.
• 27:48
  I'm telling you.
• 27:49
  That's what he's doing.
• 27:50
  No, I'm not kidding.
• 27:51
  Watch what he's doing.
• 27:52
  Have you seen it?
• 27:53
  And I'm not against Trump.
• 27:54
  I am absolutely not against Trump.
• 27:57
  So don't say, oh, you're kidding me.
• 27:58
  You're saying bad stuff about Trump.
• 28:00
  I don't want you to take it that way.
• 28:02
  I have never made any bones about the fact that I love what he's doing nationally, but
• 28:07
  internationally, I think he's making a mistake.
• 28:09
  The smart move would be to make alliances with people like Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin,
• 28:18
  and Narendra Modi.
• 28:20
  That's the smart move.
• 28:22
  And in fact, JR used to say that he thought that's what Trump was up to.
• 28:27
  And if he is, he isn't doing it the right way because doing what he's doing in Venezuela
• 28:33
  or outside of there to Venezuelans and Colombians, that's a mistake.
• 28:38
  Ma'am, I think he is.
• 28:39
  I think he is doing it away.
• 28:41
  It's OK.
• 28:42
  Listen, we we I love talking to you.
• 28:44
  You're a smart guy and we don't necessarily completely agree.
• 28:48
  Of course not.
• 28:49
  Who would?
• 28:50
  If you give your perspective and I just like to say this, that I'd like to say that what
• 28:56
  Donald Trump is doing right now, the Trumpster, as you referred to him as, is just laying
• 29:00
  all the cards on the table, 52 decks and the extra jokers.
• 29:05
  You know, he's laying all the cards on the table right now.
• 29:08
  And he's just saying, hey, look, look at here.
• 29:10
  This is what's going on.
• 29:12
  That's what's been going on.
• 29:13
  They've been cheating us.
• 29:14
  They've been cheating us.
• 29:15
  They're trying to kill us.
• 29:16
  We're trying to do this and that.
• 29:17
  And I'm not against any of that.
• 29:19
  I am for it.
• 29:20
  But but don't don't don't claim to be the peace god on the one hand and blow up people
• 29:26
  on a boat with no trial.
• 29:29
  No trial.
• 29:30
  That's see, that's weak.
• 29:32
  You got to break some eggs to make an omelet.
• 29:35
  No, you don't have to bomb people with no hearing.
• 29:38
  We have strongest Navy in the world.
• 29:40
  Right.
• 29:40
  You tell me you can't stop a speedboat.
• 29:42
  Come on.
• 29:44
  Samuel Von Trapp.
• 29:45
  OK, that's fine.
• 29:46
  If that's your particular point of view, I don't mind that.
• 29:49
  I don't believe in killing people without giving them a chance to defend themselves.
• 29:52
  I just don't believe that's un-American.
• 29:56
  We're not talking about America, man.
• 29:58
  We're talking about good versus evil.
• 30:01
  We're talking about good versus evil.
• 30:03
  That's what it comes down to.
• 30:04
  And you don't think it's evil to bomb somebody without a criminal?
• 30:09
  No.
• 30:09
  OK, these are criminals.
• 30:10
  These are drug lords.
• 30:12
  Let's call them that.
• 30:13
  These are drug lords.
• 30:14
  So we just bomb them because we don't believe in drugs and we don't believe in whatever
• 30:19
  it has.
• 30:19
  And ideologically, you have no problem with killing people without giving them an opportunity
• 30:26
  to defend themselves.
• 30:29
  Let me see if I can say this clearly enough.
• 30:31
  Abso-fucking-lutely not.
• 30:34
  You gotta blow them the fuck up.
• 30:36
  You gotta eradicate them.
• 30:37
  OK.
• 30:38
  OK.
• 30:39
  So I heard a statistic last week.
• 30:42
  The statistic was that more than that, at least 25 percent of boats boarded by the Coast
• 30:52
  Guard that are suspected of of narcotics traffic between South America and the mainland
• 30:59
  USA, the 25 percent when they board them, there's nothing there.
• 31:05
  They find nothing.
• 31:06
  There's no evidence and they leave them and allow them to go along their way.
• 31:11
  So if Trump has killed by any number, I believe the numbers up to 46 or 48 total people blown
• 31:19
  up.
• 31:19
  How much?
• 31:21
  Fifty, give or take.
• 31:22
  Fifty, give or take.
• 31:23
  So of that 50, what is 25 percent of that is twelve and a half people, right?
• 31:28
  So twelve and a half people died that were likely innocent, according to only the Coast
• 31:36
  Guard numbers of ships that they stopped.
• 31:39
  Now, you could say we have the best military intelligence in the world.
• 31:43
  First of all, I'll tell you.
• 31:44
  No, we don't.
• 31:45
  And certainly not when I was in military intelligence, where they're just as likely to be morons
• 31:52
  as anybody else.
• 31:53
  And so I don't believe that they are infallible.
• 31:58
  And so I so there's something in the law that people should be aware of.
• 32:02
  And in the law, there was a famous justice.
• 32:05
  Wish I was better with names and could remember who said it.
• 32:08
  But in one of the cases when I was going through law school, there was a dude who said it better
• 32:13
  that better that 50 or 100 or some ungodly number of criminals go free than one man be
• 32:25
  unjustly convicted and condemned to die.
• 32:28
  And that you know what, whoever that justice was, whose name I do not recall, I subscribe
• 32:35
  to that belief.
• 32:37
  OK, well, that's I mean, that's pretty minimalist.
• 32:41
  I mean, I'd love engaging in this conversation.
• 32:45
  I mean, if it's just one, you know, that's a that's a rough thing, man.
• 32:50
  That's not a good thing.
• 32:51
  But when it becomes dozens or hundreds, you know, the trouble is it's needless.
• 32:57
  You can stop the boat.
• 33:00
  Let me. Well, why can't you track them?
• 33:02
  Today's technology, you saying you can't track a damn boat.
• 33:05
  You can sure as hell show the bombing of the explosion and the fact that your missile took
• 33:10
  it out, that you have all the joy in the world in showing to everybody, oh, geez, look
• 33:15
  what we're doing. We're blowing the crap out of those narco terrorists.
• 33:19
  Right. Why can't you stop the narco terrorists and put them, you know, make it a what do
• 33:27
  you call it? A death penalty, a death penalty offense to do it on the international level.
• 33:33
  Follow international law.
• 33:34
  Did you listen to me a few days ago when I went through what the international law requires
• 33:38
  of all of this? Maybe not.
• 33:40
  But but but here's the bigger picture.
• 33:42
  The reason that I call is not for the minutiae.
• 33:45
  I mean, because, you know, details, you know, way more than I know.
• 33:49
  And I just listened on the, you know, the fringe, the periphery.
• 33:52
  And I try to get a big picture view.
• 33:54
  And my big picture view is like if we want to compare this little drug boat runners to
• 34:01
  something, then how about compare that to the like the free speech outlets, you know,
• 34:07
  like Tucker Carlson and Alex Jones and.
• 34:10
  I agree with all that, too.
• 34:12
  I think that's what's a bigger voice, Sam.
• 34:16
  What's a bigger voice than blowing up a few narco terrorists out of the water or shutting
• 34:21
  down a giant open free.
• 34:24
  But what they're doing, this is to frighten Maduro into running away to another country.
• 34:33
  But but listen, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 34:37
  If you don't know this, you should.
• 34:41
  This is all the same thing going on in Nigeria.
• 34:44
  I spoke about it in the last night show.
• 34:46
  Same thing in Nigeria.
• 34:47
  Same thing in Venezuela.
• 34:50
  And they are going after the oil and the Nobel Peace Prize winner, whatever her name was,
• 34:59
  said it in no uncertain terms yesterday.
• 35:04
  The Nobel Peace Prize lady said, we want Trump to do something now because that's the
• 35:11
  only way we're going to get rid of these.
• 35:12
  And by the way, once they do, the oil will flow to the U.S.
• 35:17
  You know, dollars that gas.
• 35:19
  So here's the thing.
• 35:21
  That's a great point, Sam.
• 35:22
  That's a great point.
• 35:23
  But here's the thing.
• 35:24
  Don't make it worthwhile, though.
• 35:26
  Look what we did in Iraq.
• 35:27
  What did we do there?
• 35:28
  Has that panned out for us long term, not remotely?
• 35:33
  It makes it completely worthwhile.
• 35:35
  Here's the thing.
• 35:36
  Right now, this world is in a global crisis.
• 35:39
  It's in a global inflationary crisis.
• 35:42
  You can't not.
• 35:43
  It's hard to get by working hard, working 50, 60 hours a week.
• 35:47
  I don't know.
• 35:48
  I don't know where you get your money from.
• 35:49
  I don't know.
• 35:50
  But the world is in an inflationary crisis because of the devaluation of the dollar.
• 35:56
  And that dollar is driven by the Federal Reserve Bank.
• 35:59
  And until that Federal Reserve Bank is eradicated, we're doomed.
• 36:04
  That's the bottom line.
• 36:05
  No matter what we want to talk about.
• 36:07
  OK, but what does that have to do with what we've been talking about?
• 36:11
  I was well, no, I understand.
• 36:14
  I get that.
• 36:15
  But I was I was hoping to get to my underground nuclear testing.
• 36:19
  I very much enjoyed our conversation and you taking me off track.
• 36:24
  This was a hell of a lot of fun.
• 36:27
  And I've had a I've had a good conversation.
• 36:29
  I doubt I'm going to get all the way through my nuclear testing stuff
• 36:33
  today, because it's a pretty long pile of information.
• 36:38
  And I'm going to get all the way to the end.
• 36:40
  But I'll tell you this, Sam, that here's the thing.
• 36:43
  We just got to keep the information flowing.
• 36:45
  You're doing a great job.
• 36:46
  You don't have to get it out there all in one day.
• 36:48
  Hell, take the whole week.
• 36:49
  You're a smart guy.
• 36:50
  We know it.
• 36:51
  You're on the radio.
• 36:52
  You're up.
• 36:52
  You're what you are.
• 36:53
  And you're getting the calls you're getting.
• 36:55
  And you're listening.
• 36:56
  You're outreaching to the people you're outreaching to for a reason, brother.
• 37:00
  And that reason is because you're on the good side, no matter no matter what, how
• 37:04
  you want to fucking, you know, draw the lines or color the pictures or color the
• 37:08
  maps, you're on the good side because you're just giving good, honest
• 37:13
  information and an honest point of view and an honest, would you say it?
• 37:17
  I said, what was your quote?
• 37:20
  Perspective, perfect perspective.
• 37:21
  What was that?
• 37:22
  My, my, your, your, your, your path to your particular paradise.
• 37:27
  Is that what you were after your path?
• 37:30
  I'm on my own path to my own particular paradise.
• 37:34
  I do like that.
• 37:35
  Who came up with that?
• 37:37
  It's probably some more, some lunatic named Samuel.
• 37:40
  I'm going to quote you in that.
• 37:44
  Or I'll send you a, you know, a hand signed copy.
• 37:47
  It'll be short, not a big book, you know, 150 pages, mostly parables and whatnot.
• 37:51
  But then, but then you're going to know.
• 37:53
  Well, I'll make sure to send you, send you a copy of mine when I get her done.
• 37:59
  And, uh, uh, the plan is it's been, so the edit and now they're pressuring
• 38:04
  me to get the rest to them because it's been, it's been about a month
• 38:09
  since I submitted anything.
• 38:10
  Cause I've been just a busy, busy little beaver and, uh, I do
• 38:14
  need to finish what I started.
• 38:17
  And, uh, but I keep getting distracted.
• 38:19
  I keep writing these articles for Russian newspapers and every night I try to do
• 38:24
  at least some minimal research to, uh, to have an interesting point of view and
• 38:30
  not just Sam's standard, you know, BS thrown out there, I want to have
• 38:36
  something useful to say.
• 38:38
  It took six yams to, uh, for God to build, you know, create the earth.
• 38:42
  And on the seventh day, you know what he did?
• 38:45
  Took a break.
• 38:47
  He rested, bro.
• 38:49
  He rested.
• 38:50
  So Sam, you're doing, you're doing a great job.
• 38:52
  You're a great guy.
• 38:53
  I really feel in my heart that you're a good guy.
• 38:56
  I hope that if we meet in a dark alley, you're going to know I'm on your side.
• 39:01
  Well, that's good because there'll be people chasing me down that alley.
• 39:05
  I'm pretty sure it might be able to use some help.
• 39:07
  I'll be collateral damage.
• 39:10
  That's right.
• 39:11
  Have a good night.
• 39:11
  Yep.
• 39:12
  See you.
• 39:14
  And there he goes.
• 39:17
  So I want to get back to my, uh, discussion on, uh, well, I want to make
• 39:25
  sure that I can give a link to my, my story.
• 39:28
  If you do a search for it, it might not come out on the English side,
• 39:33
  um, because it's on a Russian outlet.
• 39:37
  It's, uh, it's at the newspaper is Ukraine dot R U, which is Ukraine dot
• 39:44
  Russia and R U is the ending for Russia.
• 39:48
  And, uh, it's the newspaper.
• 39:51
  Um, well, it's not a newspaper anymore.
• 39:55
  It's a media outlet, both, uh, uh, internet based, uh, news based, um,
• 40:04
  television and, uh, written format.
• 40:08
  And, uh, they do, they do.
• 40:11
  I've interviewed with them through a telegram and through zoom and through
• 40:16
  some stuff with that several times.
• 40:18
  So, uh, since I met their, uh, editorial staff, um, last year in Kazan in Russia.
• 40:26
  And so, you know, I've submitted, um, and I really only started that this summer.
• 40:31
  I sent a three or four articles their way.
• 40:33
  Well, it wasn't even summer.
• 40:35
  Geez.
• 40:35
  It was, uh, when I was there the last time I told them I was coming, they asked
• 40:39
  if they could interview me in studio.
• 40:41
  And so I went in and interviewed with them in studio and
• 40:44
  that was rather entertaining.
• 40:46
  It was a lot of fun.
• 40:47
  And, uh, uh, then every once in a while on telegram, I'll get a request to, um,
• 40:53
  to do some more and then I request of them that they publish my, uh, my, uh,
• 40:59
  opinions and my, my, uh, thoughts on some of these things.
• 41:04
  And the latest was is called what is worse Biden's auto signature or
• 41:10
  Trump's bombing of quote criminals without trial or evidence in the
• 41:17
  collar was pretty much against pretty much thought that, uh, uh, you know,
• 41:24
  maybe I should be more for, uh, this type of thing, but I'm really not.
• 41:29
  And, uh, I just, uh, I, I, I don't like that kind of thing.
• 41:34
  And, uh, I'm very much against, um, bombing and killing people with no,
• 41:40
  uh, no, uh, human rights.
• 41:44
  Okay.
• 41:45
  These are not, these are not American rights that we are talking about, even
• 41:51
  though, when I told you about the law and the way the law works on the high
• 41:55
  seas, as soon as you board a boat, the, this happened, uh, remember this
• 42:03
  happened, um, when the Coast Guard was boarding Haitian, uh, immigration
• 42:10
  boats, boats that were trying to get onto the country and is, so these
• 42:15
  people were wanting to claim asylum.
• 42:18
  And as soon as the Coast Guard got on there, the courts applied since they
• 42:23
  were being investigated by American Coast Guard officers that attached to
• 42:31
  the right to apply for asylum in America.
• 42:37
  Now that was unexpected.
• 42:38
  When I found that out, I was unaware of that, but on the high seas that is the
• 42:44
  law, and then we went through with a bunch of other stuff.
• 42:47
  Well, maybe that's one of the reasons why better to blow up the evidence
• 42:52
  and all the people involved.
• 42:53
  So you don't have those questions, uh, from the other side of the fence.
• 42:58
  However, people are saying that, uh, uh, there are quite a few people in
• 43:03
  Colombia and in Venezuela who have made claims already in the United Nations
• 43:10
  saying that, uh, that these, you know, at least on several instances, the
• 43:16
  people were fishermen, that they were not in any, uh, sort of, uh, um, illicit
• 43:24
  drug traffic and that whatever data the U S had is wrong.
• 43:30
  Well, I believe that, I mean, I'm pretty clear about what I believe.
• 43:36
  You don't have to agree with me.
• 43:37
  Obviously the caller did not, but it's, uh, my belief do unto others
• 43:48
  and then run away, right?
• 43:49
  That's how, that's how it works.
• 43:51
  Do unto others and then get the hell out of there.
• 43:53
  So somebody doesn't do it back to you, but no, that's not how it's supposed to be.
• 43:57
  Do you're supposed to do unto others, uh, as you would hope that somebody would do
• 44:02
  unto you now that you don't always do that, you know, but that, uh, is neither
• 44:08
  here nor there, that's what is supposed to happen, at least in a perfect world.
• 44:14
  And I'm not so sure the world is as perfect as it ought to be.
• 44:19
  So at any rate, I'm going to get back to, uh, my underground nuclear
• 44:26
  testing where I had only just begun.
• 44:28
  We've only just begun.
• 44:30
  So now we can sing some Karen Carpenter, uh, if you'd like, uh, together.
• 44:35
  Let's see.
• 44:36
  But I wanted to do a tour through the entire underground era.
• 44:41
  And maybe I'll just plan on speaking about, uh, about half of this tonight
• 44:47
  and call this part one of, uh, nuclear testing.
• 44:52
  And then tomorrow night we will get into part two, because there is a good
• 44:58
  amount of information to, uh, to do.
• 45:02
  And there are how many parts, uh, a through F that's what six, six parts.
• 45:08
  And I'm a barely, I don't even think I'm through the intro on this
• 45:14
  until I get to the other two.
• 45:15
  So it'll probably take two shows.
• 45:17
  So why don't we call this part one?
• 45:20
  And like I told you, I've been there.
• 45:22
  I've been in the Nevada nuclear test site.
• 45:24
  I was on the ground for the last series of tests,
• 45:28
  escorting Russian scientists.
• 45:31
  I know I've told a few of these stories on the air before about some of the
• 45:35
  things that, uh, that occurred was out there.
• 45:38
  There was a gentleman that was our bus driver and his name was Ernie.
• 45:44
  Well, maybe it was, we had 15 passenger vans.
• 45:47
  So every morning, so we lived on the outskirts, uh, well, right inside the
• 45:52
  gates to the Nevada nuclear test site.
• 45:54
  It's a department of energy facility and it's about 90, maybe 80.
• 46:03
  And, and I suppose it's been so long.
• 46:06
  I could be mistaken, but I want to say it's about an hour and a half.
• 46:10
  Out West of Las Vegas, we'd fly into McKinley airport.
• 46:14
  Karen airport out there.
• 46:16
  And then, uh, all bringing in from Washington DC, the, uh, exchange of the
• 46:25
  nuclear scientists from Russia would come over, um, at the beginning of the test.
• 46:30
  And they had the right to stay the whole time and they stayed there.
• 46:33
  Well, they had these old fifties style, uh, motel rooms out there
• 46:38
  and, uh, some old swimming pools.
• 46:41
  It was, it was fantastic.
• 46:42
  It was like living in a different, a different time.
• 46:47
  Everything out there was old.
• 46:50
  These, uh, obviously state of the art way back when, but the swimming pool
• 46:55
  was well cared for, but very, very old.
• 47:00
  And, uh, it was outside, you know, obviously you don't need one inside.
• 47:04
  I mean, in the winter, it does get cold out there.
• 47:07
  And, uh, and they had a nice, um, uh, I forget what
• 47:12
  the word is in English out there.
• 47:15
  I spoke Russian 90% of the time.
• 47:17
  And it's, uh, uh, uh, cafeteria.
• 47:20
  The word is cafe.
• 47:21
  And that was very nice.
• 47:22
  And they had people out there cooking every day, uh, two, three meals a day.
• 47:26
  And, uh, the Russians would stay on one side of the swimming pools and we were
• 47:29
  on the other side of the swimming pools.
• 47:31
  And, um, you know, during, during the weekends, there was no work going on.
• 47:37
  Most of the time, every once in a while, a Saturday there'd be some work, but
• 47:41
  for the most part, not.
• 47:43
  And so in the evenings, uh, they would like for recreation to be able to go
• 47:47
  out and use the pool to go out and do something they would, there was a small
• 47:51
  rec room, you know, near the, um, near the, uh, cafeteria and, and we would
• 47:59
  meet in there and play a board games.
• 48:01
  There was, we played risk, you know, and they didn't, and one of the games
• 48:05
  that I taught them to play was a game that I learned in high school when I
• 48:09
  had a German class and, uh, Frau, what was her name?
• 48:14
  Well, the teacher was Frau.
• 48:16
  Uh, I can't remember, but, uh, my German class and, and, uh, I can't remember
• 48:21
  if it was my older brother who had introduced us to the game, but I
• 48:25
  introduced the Russians to this game.
• 48:29
  And the game is called diplomacy.
• 48:31
  If you're a person who likes the game of risk, and I always did, I loved risk
• 48:36
  and, and, uh, oh, the fights in my, uh, uh, youth over brothers and
• 48:42
  sisters playing the game of risk.
• 48:45
  Oh my God.
• 48:46
  But, uh, a lot of fun anyway, you know, but, uh, those are the things
• 48:50
  that memories are made out of.
• 48:51
  But when I got into high school, it became a game called diplomacy.
• 48:55
  And if you haven't heard of it, you probably, uh, well, I don't
• 48:59
  know, it's an interesting game.
• 49:00
  You can find it.
• 49:01
  It's like an Avalon Hill game or something like that.
• 49:04
  Right.
• 49:05
  And you basically ever there's eight, nine countries it's during world war
• 49:11
  two, um, maybe 10, 12 countries.
• 49:13
  And it's the map of Western Europe and include, well, all of Europe and
• 49:19
  included Russia and there were, there were Hungary and Turkey and all of
• 49:24
  these places and everybody was there.
• 49:27
  You could play with a good number of players and the difference, I suppose
• 49:32
  the basic difference between that game and the game of risk is it is not based
• 49:39
  upon whose turn it is in a roll of the dice.
• 49:44
  It is based upon a season, a campaign let's call it.
• 49:49
  So the campaign would be, for example, uh, spring of 1939 and everybody is a
• 50:00
  and you are the leader of a country.
• 50:03
  You, uh, beforehand you negotiate with who you wish to negotiate with
• 50:08
  and there's negotiation period.
• 50:10
  And so basically it's a long play game and like a chess game and you negotiate
• 50:17
  with whoever you wish to negotiate.
• 50:19
  And they say that by 10 AM, we did it in high school.
• 50:23
  So you had two days to make your, or we'd make moves once a
• 50:27
  week or something like that.
• 50:29
  And then you would negotiate and then everybody would open their moves
• 50:33
  and their envelopes at the same time.
• 50:36
  And everybody's moves had to be made.
• 50:39
  And then you would find out who screwed you or who you could verify and
• 50:45
  trust, right, and, and playing these games.
• 50:48
  So Austria would get together with Hungary and they would go both against
• 50:53
  Germany or against Bulgaria or against any of these other places.
• 50:57
  And you started out with, I don't know, seven or eight players, but there
• 51:01
  were, I don't know, 20 or well, 30 or 40 different countries or
• 51:06
  territories that had to be taken.
• 51:08
  And you had to make a coalition in order to get somewhere or
• 51:12
  anyways, very interesting game.
• 51:14
  And I taught the Russians how to play it.
• 51:16
  And since we were out there for so long, it was really rather entertaining.
• 51:21
  And I remember one particular game of that and playing with some Russian
• 51:26
  nuclear scientists and there were a couple of political guys and the
• 51:30
  interpreter that we worked with named Valery was really cool.
• 51:34
  And we would keep the game going and game would last a month, you know, the
• 51:39
  game would go and every night or every few days we'd meet and we'd have a
• 51:43
  chance to negotiate.
• 51:44
  And I was like, you guys are going to screw me because you all sleep in the
• 51:49
  same, you know, bunkhouse and I'm over there and you guys are meeting all night
• 51:53
  figuring out how to screw the American, you know?
• 51:56
  And, uh, anyway, we had a lot of fun doing it, stupid story, but, uh, I was out
• 52:00
  there, these guys would stay there the entire time from the beginning of the
• 52:05
  digging of the hole, which you had to dig.
• 52:08
  There was 2000 feet deep, put a nuclear bomb in it, fill it back in with the
• 52:14
  same level of, uh, sand, concrete, limestone, uh, whatever sorts of gravel
• 52:23
  all the way up of different densities and different types, you fill it in with
• 52:27
  the exact same, um, environmental, uh, I want to say it in Russian.
• 52:34
  It's really sad that I know this crap in Russian, even from way back then.
• 52:39
  And, uh, I don't necessarily remember in English, uh, but I knew
• 52:43
  what they were talking about.
• 52:44
  Anyway, they could do these tests, but we did underground testing.
• 52:48
  Why did we do underground?
• 52:50
  As I was saying before in 1963, the world had enough and the limited
• 52:56
  test ban treaty outlawed atmospheric underwater and outer space explosions.
• 53:03
  Underground was kind of a compromise and it was legal if you can contain it.
• 53:08
  And I was just saying that containment is the important word you can argue
• 53:13
  warheads and yields all night long, but under testing, you know, when you're
• 53:18
  the testing of underground nuclear testing, this is all dependent
• 53:25
  on whether the rock holds up.
• 53:28
  And, uh, you know, I was just telling you that we had a couple of, of radioactive
• 53:32
  venting that occurred and release radioactivity into the air on a serious
• 53:37
  amount like Bainbury, there were a couple that released and people were too close
• 53:44
  that they hadn't weren't far enough away.
• 53:46
  So the rules got tighter.
• 53:48
  Um, and then they started to, to cap the size of the underground testing, no
• 53:54
  mega bangs under the desert or in the tundra, and they would calculate, you
• 54:00
  know, the, how much it was, um, you know, the landscape of the Nevada nuclear
• 54:08
  test site is like the moon, you know, craters everywhere from these things.
• 54:14
  Hundreds of tests occurred underground.
• 54:18
  You know, so we got the moon, but semi Palatinsk in Kazakhstan,
• 54:22
  well, you know, the cold war same, they, they had, and I'll get to the
• 54:27
  numbers later on in this, uh, analysis, but it was somewhere in the neighborhood
• 54:31
  of 400, we had over a thousand, um, although some were combined, the British
• 54:36
  were always there with us and on a number of the testing, um, you know,
• 54:43
  Russia also did Nova Zimla in the Arctic circle, uh, France had a program first
• 54:49
  in the Sahara and then in Polynesia where underground meant drilling into
• 54:53
  coral under lagoons, nonsense.
• 54:57
  And China was in there.
• 55:00
  It's called the Lop Nur basin.
• 55:03
  They did the same tunnels and shafts cut into desert mountains.
• 55:06
  And then we have late comers to the program, India and Pakistan, who
• 55:11
  announced themselves in 1998 with underground testing and then North
• 55:16
  Korea did its own testing in Punggye-ri is what it's called.
• 55:21
  So every corner of the planet has been used for this.
• 55:26
  There was indications that, uh, last year Iran conducted a nuclear test underground.
• 55:32
  Remember all the talk about that?
• 55:34
  So mechanically every place solves the problem with local answers.
• 55:40
  In Nevada, they had welded ash and volcano, uh, what do you call it in the
• 55:48
  ancient history, and so they drill straight down most of the time, drop the
• 55:54
  package, what they call it, put in your, your cork that's supposed to, uh, take
• 55:59
  care of it, sand, gravel, concrete, and then they would stem it, layer it, you
• 56:05
  know, kind of like a club sandwich, you know, you layer of layer of gravel, layer
• 56:10
  of bacon, layer of concrete plugs.
• 56:13
  And so then some granite that they would have to put in and what they're trying
• 56:17
  is to match the density and the depth of that density and in coral limestone.
• 56:23
  I mean, they had to do a ton of math to figure this out and
• 56:28
  then they would run cables.
• 56:30
  So these cables, imagine a cable about as thick around as your wrist, black cable
• 56:38
  inside it, 50 coaxial cables of varying, uh, speeds, densities all the way through.
• 56:48
  And that cable, when we would talk about it back then, it was, we were, everybody
• 56:53
  was talking about, you know, $30,000 toilet seat covers or toilet seats.
• 56:58
  I mean, and, uh, this one foot of this was astronomically expensive,
• 57:05
  well over a hundred, 200 bucks is the numbers I recall, you know, that, that
• 57:10
  they were, although it could have been far more, not likely any less.
• 57:15
  And these cables ran for miles across the desert, uh, to these trailers that
• 57:26
  were put on these cushions and the cushions looked like, so imagine taking
• 57:32
  your trailer house and putting round, a four inch round, five inch round, um,
• 57:43
  round, what would you call them?
• 57:45
  Metal rings.
• 57:47
  And through the ring, you put a, you drill a pipe into the ground 60, 70 feet, and
• 57:57
  you stick it out where it's 30, 40 feet above the ground as well.
• 58:02
  So the trailer is sitting at about 20 feet up in the air, sitting on some, uh,
• 58:11
  look like styrofoam cushions.
• 58:14
  And so when the explosion went off some 20, 30 miles away, the, the lift,
• 58:22
  probably not 20, 30, more like 10, 15, because at that point you're out, if it
• 58:27
  collapsed correctly, then, you know, you, you, your trailers where, which
• 58:33
  were doing all the data collection.
• 58:34
  And there were probably 20, 30 trailers of this type sitting out there, standard
• 58:40
  mobile home, let's say each one full of equipment, each one sitting on a, uh, uh,
• 58:46
  set of styrofoam or cushion of whatever type about 10 feet high.
• 58:50
  And then on top of that is where these rings were put in and drilled all the
• 58:54
  way in the ground so that when they, uh, the tremor went up and send them flying
• 58:59
  in the air, 15, 20 feet, when they land back down, they land on the cushion parts,
• 59:05
  but they don't go flying because they're on these rings on each of
• 59:09
  the four corners of the trailer.
• 59:11
  I hope I've explained that well enough of how they sit out there.
• 59:16
  And each one of them is full of millions of dollars worth of equipment that would
• 59:21
  pick up the signal of this cable and, or their particular line of this cable that
• 59:27
  was running across the desert, this whole 15 miles, and there's multiple, multiple
• 59:33
  cables, you know, that would go.
• 59:35
  And they were all the way down connected to the bomb in this steel, um, chamber that
• 59:43
  they were put in and then lowered into the ground that many feet, they would test all
• 59:47
  the cables and put them in.
• 59:48
  This is a highly involved process.
• 59:52
  And so at any rate, the cables would run back to trailers because the whole data is
• 59:58
  the whole point pressure of the explosion, neutron flux, gamma rays, ground motion.
• 1:00:04
  If you're doing special effects or weapons effects, you might do a long, uh, run along
• 1:00:09
  steel pipe, a line of sight into a target chamber.
• 1:00:12
  You do all of that so that at time T minus zero, when the device, uh, you know, goes
• 1:00:19
  off and turns into history, the physics you get to keep, you keep the evidence and the
• 1:00:25
  rest hopefully stays buried in a nuclear, uh, under a nuclear ball underneath the
• 1:00:32
  ground for hundreds and hundreds of years.
• 1:00:36
  Okay.
• 1:00:36
  So success will leave a sinkhole that covers it all up and collapses just right.
• 1:00:42
  And nothing gets out, you know, failure leaves a great headline, right?
• 1:00:48
  So the lore of all of this is pretty colorful.
• 1:00:50
  You know, there are stories about, uh, when, when I was there, I was hearing
• 1:00:54
  stories that I was never able to verify.
• 1:00:57
  There were people that would always say there was a guy that fell down one of
• 1:01:01
  these 2000 foot holes and they had to bring him out the only way they could.
• 1:01:06
  With a crane.
• 1:01:07
  And when they did, basically his body came out in two pieces and, uh, but they did get
• 1:01:13
  him, I was never able to find anything about that even today, but it wouldn't
• 1:01:18
  surprise me, um, what I saw out there, you know, OSHA probably isn't invited.
• 1:01:25
  We don't have to follow rules, the government, we make the rules, but I
• 1:01:31
  never found the verified case.
• 1:01:33
  I couldn't find it.
• 1:01:34
  What we do have are real hazards, venting events, dose exposures,
• 1:01:39
  industrial accidents that did occur.
• 1:01:43
  I mean, the size of these cranes were in credible and you were right up next to
• 1:01:49
  them, they were double or triple my height.
• 1:01:52
  And, uh, I mean, I'm under six foot, I'm like five, nine, but, uh, they were at
• 1:01:57
  least 15 to 18 feet tall and they'd roll across the desert at, uh, you know, two
• 1:02:03
  miles an hour to get to where they were going to go huge money at any rate.
• 1:02:09
  Um, this is the desert was beautiful, but full of these, uh, uh, chambers of, uh,
• 1:02:19
  radiation.
• 1:02:19
  So politically, uh, after the limited test ban came the threshold agreements
• 1:02:25
  and that's the part where I was involved in.
• 1:02:28
  So the limited test band basically got rid of the above ground, got rid of the
• 1:02:33
  ocean, got rid of the atmospheric ones up above, uh, the atmosphere space ones
• 1:02:39
  basically is what they call that.
• 1:02:40
  And they couldn't go over a certain size.
• 1:02:43
  And then in the mid nineties, when I was around is when the final tests in the
• 1:02:50
  U S came out and I want to say 93, but we'll get to it at some point here.
• 1:02:54
  Cause I have the exact dates of when they went off.
• 1:02:56
  And, uh, they wanted to put in a comprehensive ban on all tests everywhere
• 1:03:04
  for everyone, full stop of it all.
• 1:03:08
  And the uncomfortable truth is the comprehensive test band
• 1:03:13
  treaty never took legal effect.
• 1:03:17
  Too many key players did not ratify.
• 1:03:20
  Some never even signed it, but for the most part, everyone's honored it.
• 1:03:26
  The U S hasn't conducted a test and, uh, an explosive test since 1992, the
• 1:03:32
  UK stopped at the same time, France stopped, Russia stopped, China stopped
• 1:03:38
  the big five, we all stopped the last bangs of the 20th century came from the
• 1:03:44
  subcontinent in 98, which was India and Pakistan.
• 1:03:50
  And then this century, I believe it was 2008.
• 1:03:53
  I don't recall the exact one was North Korea.
• 1:03:56
  Allegedly there were some in Iran, um, last year, but nobody's
• 1:04:01
  been able to verify that.
• 1:04:03
  So most of the others went to lab work, simulations, critical
• 1:04:07
  experiments had never crossed the lines.
• 1:04:09
  And, uh, you know, not a treaty lawyer, uh, paradise, but
• 1:04:14
  perhaps a pretty good piece.
• 1:04:16
  So why is it that I want to talk about this right now?
• 1:04:20
  Because the talk has come back.
• 1:04:22
  Russia is posturing.
• 1:04:25
  China is modernizing its own sites.
• 1:04:27
  I told you last week that a novice in law, they've been talking about the
• 1:04:31
  Americans have been spying on it.
• 1:04:33
  And they've been saying that there's a lot of activity up there with the
• 1:04:36
  border of the ethnic and these loitering munitions that last 15, 16 hours.
• 1:04:42
  And so it's a big deal.
• 1:04:43
  Um, everybody is warning that somebody is going to cross the line and the
• 1:04:48
  entire strategic balance is slipping around like a car on black.
• 1:04:52
  Ice.
• 1:04:53
  And that's where we're going.
• 1:04:54
  I'm going to give it to you straight.
• 1:04:56
  Even if the leaders of the world don't somewhere, a leader named
• 1:05:01
  Donald Trump said, Oh, we're going to start tests.
• 1:05:04
  Well, if you're going to get tests tomorrow morning, forget it.
• 1:05:08
  It's not going to happen.
• 1:05:10
  You won't get a competent contained underground test without a lot of time
• 1:05:15
  going into it, and I've been there for that nine months was after many, many,
• 1:05:22
  many years of the U S get really good at it.
• 1:05:26
  You could argue that everybody who knew anything about that have all retired.
• 1:05:31
  The people that could do it in their sleep are retired or dead.
• 1:05:36
  All the kits are old.
• 1:05:37
  Supply chains are rusty.
• 1:05:39
  You'd have to recruit a knowledgeable workforce.
• 1:05:42
  They don't exist.
• 1:05:43
  You'd have to rebuild specialized rigs, requalify procedures, convince geology
• 1:05:49
  and geologists to cooperate with you.
• 1:05:53
  Nobody wants it.
• 1:05:54
  And it's not just flipping a light switch and saying, Oh, geez,
• 1:05:57
  we're restarting nuclear testing.
• 1:05:59
  You know, the orchestra where half the musicians have left and the
• 1:06:04
  instrument cases are also locked.
• 1:06:06
  You know, it's not like you can just restart, but the world does have ears.
• 1:06:12
  There is a global web of sensors and the Russians.
• 1:06:16
  So my guy that I like to watch all the time, Vladimir Soloviev and his show,
• 1:06:21
  I tell you about it once a week, it comes on his Sunday night show,
• 1:06:24
  which was on last night.
• 1:06:25
  I've watched it.
• 1:06:27
  Um, and there was a couple of, there were two of his people
• 1:06:30
  talking about this topic too.
• 1:06:32
  And I listened to him and they were, they, and, and a couple of things incorrect.
• 1:06:38
  Generally, however, they following they there's, there's some, there'll be some
• 1:06:45
  interview parts of what they were saying on here, uh, on my, on my show,
• 1:06:50
  which obviously is going to extend into tomorrow.
• 1:06:53
  Okay.
• 1:06:54
  Um, into what we're talking about.
• 1:06:57
  Um, you know, but political dodges, even without the treaty in force,
• 1:07:02
  there is a verification machine.
• 1:07:06
  And that machine would make it, you know, we know when one goes off there,
• 1:07:12
  there were lots of reports about them going off in, uh, Iran last year, but
• 1:07:23
  nobody's ever really confirmed it.
• 1:07:26
  And I did some searching today and all it is the same old crap that they were
• 1:07:29
  saying before that they were saying it is there, but history is the part
• 1:07:33
  that might keep us honest in Nevada.
• 1:07:36
  The last U S shot was in September of 92.
• 1:07:39
  The laboratories pivoted to subcritical tests.
• 1:07:43
  Soviet put hundreds of shots in the ground and in the hills hills during their time.
• 1:07:48
  They even tried peaceful nuclear explosions.
• 1:07:50
  Okay.
• 1:07:50
  This was a problem and they tried to dig a canal with a bomb, make a reservoir with
• 1:07:55
  a bomb, you know, let's get rid of the suspense here.
• 1:07:59
  Uh, not a good plan that did not work out.
• 1:08:04
  Um, they got a hole in the ground, but you also got a, uh, a problem
• 1:08:09
  that nobody wanted to inherit.
• 1:08:10
  Uh, the French tried their, their tropical underground drilling
• 1:08:14
  under Mora Rua and Funga Tofa.
• 1:08:18
  And the politics were so hot, you know, with him blowing
• 1:08:21
  up coral reefs and whatnot.
• 1:08:23
  Um, that was bad news.
• 1:08:26
  The Chinese tested in their desert, you know, these are, there were some
• 1:08:32
  with the worst us containment containment failure and all that time was Bainbury in
• 1:08:39
  France, there was a test called barrel at an, uh, in, at in Eaker where it bulged
• 1:08:46
  out of the tunnel and dosed a lot of people down there should have been much
• 1:08:51
  further away.
• 1:08:52
  These are not footnotes in history.
• 1:08:54
  They are the reason that engineers and geologists become, you know, extremely
• 1:09:01
  necessary and they do not want surprises.
• 1:09:04
  Tons of research goes into this before it can ever happen.
• 1:09:08
  Death, depth, stemming plugs, grout, rock type, water saturation.
• 1:09:13
  These words are all important.
• 1:09:16
  And, uh, you know, we'll also talk about the new toys that people are whispering
• 1:09:20
  about cruise missiles with interesting propulsion, fancy gliders, the alphabet
• 1:09:27
  soup of acronyms, Trump saying that we got ours too, or we're going to start
• 1:09:32
  doing, we're going to have a new weapons, equal new testing and, uh, modern
• 1:09:37
  computing should be able to get more truth out of all the old data than the
• 1:09:43
  old engineers could squeeze out of it in a decade, seriously, they have all of
• 1:09:48
  the data and with AI now, I guarantee you, they really do not need nuclear
• 1:09:53
  testing anymore.
• 1:09:55
  They have all the data.
• 1:09:56
  They there's no way they should have to do this anymore.
• 1:10:00
  All of that data was stored and kept long ago.
• 1:10:04
  So they should know more about what materials will do.
• 1:10:07
  Aging safety margins.
• 1:10:09
  The question we should ask as adults is quite simple.
• 1:10:14
  What do you need to know that only an explosive test can answer?
• 1:10:20
  And is that need worth a strategic political and environmental environmental
• 1:10:26
  cost of breaking a moratorium that the world has more or less kept for three
• 1:10:32
  decades, not can you test, but should you test?
• 1:10:39
  So the, you know, there were, remember when I was there, there were hundreds of
• 1:10:47
  tests, they had gone through a lot of Texas counties, naming, uh, naming their
• 1:10:53
  tests.
• 1:10:54
  I remember them.
• 1:10:55
  Um, so we're going to talk first, if we ever get into this, which will, you know,
• 1:11:00
  I might get through part one tonight.
• 1:11:02
  Um, we're, we're going to talk about how a shot is planned, drilled,
• 1:11:06
  stemmed, fired, and measured.
• 1:11:08
  You know, we can go down the shaft up the cable, run into the trailers through
• 1:11:13
  the instant where the numbers start printing and everybody pretends they're
• 1:11:16
  not holding their breath and waiting for the venting.
• 1:11:19
  Second, we'll take a world tour of Nevada, Semipalatinsk, Novi Zimla, Muroroa,
• 1:11:25
  Lapnur, Pohran, uh, Chagai, and Pungry, the, uh, who did what, when, and why, what
• 1:11:34
  the rock looked like when they were done.
• 1:11:36
  Third, law and politics, what the track treaties actually do and do not do and
• 1:11:42
  why the comprehensive treaty is a ghost that still haunts us and how the global
• 1:11:49
  sensor network allegedly quietly keeps the peace.
• 1:11:55
  Uh, there's some complaints about it, which frankly I happen to agree with.
• 1:11:59
  So fourth, what about the now who is rattling the sabers?
• 1:12:03
  Who's upgrading their sites, who's bluffing and what it would truly
• 1:12:08
  take in money, manpower, months, and years to spin the drills again,
• 1:12:16
  light the lamps again.
• 1:12:17
  And, you know, I think this is an interesting topic.
• 1:12:21
  It's something I'm fairly well versed in.
• 1:12:24
  I'd never ever claimed to be a nuclear scientist or an expert on it.
• 1:12:29
  Most of what I know is because somehow I got assigned to this treaty when the INF
• 1:12:36
  treaty was winding down and I, I don't know, I picked up on it.
• 1:12:41
  I liked it.
• 1:12:42
  And I got, I consider it to have been luck of the draw.
• 1:12:46
  And, uh, I got to do, I went to, uh, um, Garmisch-Partenkirchen where, uh, NATO
• 1:12:56
  was called the NATO school of Russian.
• 1:12:59
  And I went there, I went there three or four times, but twice for
• 1:13:04
  underground nuclear testing.
• 1:13:07
  And, uh, this, it was a, it's a big deal and it's, it's difficult to
• 1:13:13
  understand some of the primary concepts.
• 1:13:16
  A lot of it is oil rig based because they do a lot of the same sorts of drilling
• 1:13:22
  only on a grander scale, uh, in what they're doing for the drilling.
• 1:13:26
  Isn't that funny that you're spending far more money on a nuclear drilling
• 1:13:32
  than you are on oil drilling.
• 1:13:34
  So 2025 America, um, if somebody tells you underground testing is easy,
• 1:13:43
  they're selling you something.
• 1:13:45
  If someone tells you treaties do not matter, I say they're
• 1:13:50
  advertising their own ignorance.
• 1:13:52
  And if someone tells you we can restart a national testing program faster than
• 1:13:58
  we can resurface a mile of highway, tell them to go price a drilling rig.
• 1:14:04
  A steel canister and a containment plug in 2025 America, it was already
• 1:14:11
  hundreds of millions of dollars in the nineties.
• 1:14:14
  And, uh, so one last truth, the atom does not care about your politics.
• 1:14:25
  It obeys physics, not a parliament.
• 1:14:28
  You can ban it.
• 1:14:30
  You can bless it.
• 1:14:31
  You can bluster at it, but it will still do exactly what it does.
• 1:14:37
  When you pack it into a device, squeeze it with high explosion
• 1:14:41
  explosives, a mile under rock.
• 1:14:45
  It's going to do the exact same thing.
• 1:14:47
  Adults need to respect this.
• 1:14:50
  We are not talking magic.
• 1:14:52
  We're talking math and consequences.
• 1:14:55
  And there are far too many people who don't understand either.
• 1:14:59
  So let's start in Nevada.
• 1:15:03
  Okay.
• 1:15:04
  Um, let's look at how the under underground testing actually works.
• 1:15:10
  Uh, the ground is the star of the show.
• 1:15:13
  You don't pick a spot because it's pretty.
• 1:15:15
  You pick it because the geology will hold.
• 1:15:18
  So in Nevada, like I told you, the cork is the, this is the big part.
• 1:15:23
  You survey for faults, water, weak beds.
• 1:15:26
  You decide the vertical shaft or a horizontal tunnel.
• 1:15:28
  Shafts are straight down straw into the Yucca flat or the Pahuti Mesa, um,
• 1:15:34
  tunnels to sideways under a mountain.
• 1:15:36
  When we did under Rainier Mesa, either way, the whole game is containment.
• 1:15:41
  The earth must swallow the violence and keep the radioactivity where it belongs.
• 1:15:47
  So the shaft jobs first, you bring in the big rigs, you drill a hole.
• 1:15:51
  Think of a hole, 10 feet wide, hundreds to thousands of feet deep.
• 1:15:56
  The ones that I was on were right in the 2000 foot deep range.
• 1:16:02
  The device goes down on a long steel canister stuffed with diagnostic
• 1:16:06
  equipment, sensors, cables, timing, everything.
• 1:16:10
  You stem the whole gravel, sand, concrete, sometimes multiple plugs.
• 1:16:15
  It's a custom cork.
• 1:16:17
  Let's talk about tunnels.
• 1:16:18
  Area 12 Rainier Mesa.
• 1:16:20
  We drove tunnel complexes into the mountains, horizontal line of sight
• 1:16:24
  pipes, big steel tubes, up to 30 feet at the chamber, tapered down
• 1:16:29
  hundreds of meters long.
• 1:16:31
  You put the device in the chamber, the experiment down the pipe, and then
• 1:16:35
  they use fast testing closures like explosive doors slam shut in a
• 1:16:40
  millisecond to keep the blast and debris from wrecking the gear, but
• 1:16:45
  let the radiation pulse wash over it.
• 1:16:48
  If you want a phrase to impress the unimpressable, try this one.
• 1:16:54
  Three times fast, a triple closure HLOS system.
• 1:17:00
  That is how you take x-rays from hell and make them useful.
• 1:17:06
  So let me give you a number that would rule the day, right?
• 1:17:10
  Way back then.
• 1:17:12
  Depth scales with the yield.
• 1:17:15
  There's a reason we talk about scaled depth of burial.
• 1:17:19
  In plain English, the bigger the bang, the deeper the hole.
• 1:17:24
  The old rule of thumb at Nevada was an order of 400 feet times the cube
• 1:17:30
  root of the yield in kilotons.
• 1:17:34
  Now figure that out.
• 1:17:35
  I never did.
• 1:17:36
  I let somebody else, I didn't know.
• 1:17:38
  I just knew I knew how to do the translation.
• 1:17:40
  And deeper if you got water in the rock, because you know, water
• 1:17:44
  is just going to evaporate.
• 1:17:46
  If you want the metric nerd version, you'll hear about 122 meters times
• 1:17:51
  Y to the greater of one third tossed around as a classic scaling relation.
• 1:17:57
  You don't have to memorize it.
• 1:17:59
  Just remember that containment is math that meets geology and it's not easy.
• 1:18:05
  And because we're going to talk like grownups here, let's
• 1:18:08
  say the quiet part out loud.
• 1:18:10
  Containment fails in some cases.
• 1:18:13
  Everybody talks about Bainbury, December 18, 1970, 10 kilotons
• 1:18:20
  under Yucca flat, the stemming failed, a fissure opened and radioactive
• 1:18:28
  gases vented up to 10,000 feet.
• 1:18:32
  That accident stopped the program until investigators rewrote the playbooks.
• 1:18:39
  More conservative depths, tighter geological screening, better stemming.
• 1:18:44
  It's the reason we talk about water content.
• 1:18:47
  Really?
• 1:18:48
  It's the reason we talk about faults.
• 1:18:50
  And safety margins.
• 1:18:51
  Now we're, they started to pay attention.
• 1:18:54
  So let me walk you through what it looks like on a day when they
• 1:18:58
  get to blow something up, right?
• 1:19:03
  So the plane out there is a Nevada nuclear test site is about 1,375
• 1:19:11
  square miles, bigger than Rhode Island.
• 1:19:16
  And the distance aren't down the street.
• 1:19:19
  Mercury, the main base, which is where we stayed, we had a little
• 1:19:22
  hotel as I was talking about.
• 1:19:24
  Oh, and here's the number I knew.
• 1:19:26
  I knew I had it is only 65 miles Northwest of Vegas, but it's hard to get to.
• 1:19:32
  The control point complex, the timing firing command nerve
• 1:19:36
  center is handled at Yucca flat.
• 1:19:38
  They have another one at Frenchman flat, Pahuti Mesa, and all these other places.
• 1:19:43
  The NASA control room or the NASA looking control men that I talk about
• 1:19:48
  has antennas, consoles, uh, TV screens everywhere.
• 1:19:53
  It was chaos people there everywhere.
• 1:19:55
  And we sat up in these, uh, you know, I don't know what bleacher seats way
• 1:20:00
  above is where, you know, us, uh, unimportant interpreters sat, you
• 1:20:06
  know, to watch these things.
• 1:20:07
  And, uh, they're there, they would talk about antennas, consoles,
• 1:20:11
  a few too many coffee pots on some shots.
• 1:20:14
  You'd be dozens of miles from the hole in the tunnel days.
• 1:20:17
  You'd have bunkered control rooms closer in, but the command brains
• 1:20:21
  were always at the control point.
• 1:20:23
  So between the device and the trailer control point is the thing
• 1:20:27
  nobody budgets for emotionally miles.
• 1:20:30
  Of cable.
• 1:20:32
  If you were not there in the early nineties, you wouldn't know this in your
• 1:20:36
  bones, but the specialty input instrumentation cable was on the ordered
• 1:20:43
  order of, like I said, a hundred to $200 off foot in, I mean, do the math
• 1:20:51
  on miles of that millions before you even talk about anything else except cable.
• 1:21:00
  That is why engineers argued so hard about depth and routing a thousand feet
• 1:21:05
  deeper, isn't just another day of drilling.
• 1:21:09
  It's another seven figure wiring harness.
• 1:21:13
  Right.
• 1:21:14
  Cable management was not sexy.
• 1:21:16
  You lay bundle runs out to instrumentation trailers, look
• 1:21:20
  like a rated broadcast truck.
• 1:21:24
  You know, it was crazy.
• 1:21:26
  Look inside.
• 1:21:27
  You had oscilloscopes, digitizers, timing modules, all synchronized.
• 1:21:31
  So in the first microseconds after the device went to work, you captured the
• 1:21:36
  yield signatures, neutron and gamma flux pressure, ground motion, the reason you
• 1:21:41
  did the test in the first place as the Brookings Institute puts it miles of
• 1:21:47
  electrical cables, connected the canister to firing and recording stations.
• 1:21:53
  And those stations weren't a lawn chair at ground zero.
• 1:21:57
  They were trailers and control rooms, many, many, many miles away.
• 1:22:03
  So stemming is to make or break.
• 1:22:06
  You don't want another venting.
• 1:22:07
  You don't want another Bainbury.
• 1:22:08
  You design the cork, fill it.
• 1:22:11
  There's tar, epoxy seals, layered to absorb block, seal some more gas driven
• 1:22:17
  chimneys to find a shortcut to daylight before it cools or collapses.
• 1:22:21
  That's why containment people were the gods.
• 1:22:25
  And they would say no to a test that was almost ready.
• 1:22:30
  So OTA said it plainly back in 89.
• 1:22:33
  You scaled burial depth by a maximum credible yield.
• 1:22:38
  You space the shot.
• 1:22:39
  So one cavity won't interact with another and you err on the side of safety.
• 1:22:45
  That's physics, right?
• 1:22:48
  Why tunnels?
• 1:22:49
  Two reasons.
• 1:22:50
  First containment tunneling into a strong rock under a mountain gives you a much
• 1:22:55
  greater top without chasing a bottomless vertical shaft.
• 1:23:00
  Secondly, an H loss pipe lets you bathe the hardware satellite re-entry vehicle
• 1:23:07
  noses, comms gear with because they test all of that in these tunnels in a prompt
• 1:23:13
  radiation without wrecking the lab.
• 1:23:15
  You still stem and seal like your job depended on it because it does.
• 1:23:20
  And for history buffs, Rainier 1957 was the first fully contained
• 1:23:25
  US underground test.
• 1:23:27
  A tunnel shot that proved you could do nuclear work without
• 1:23:33
  radiating the neighbors in Utah.
• 1:23:37
  Let me zoom out for a minute.
• 1:23:40
  Yucca Flat was the drilling workhorse.
• 1:23:43
  Hundreds of vertical shaft shots.
• 1:23:45
  Paiute Mesa up in area 19 and 20 was where you went deep holes almost 1300 meters to
• 1:23:52
  contain the heavyweights with minimal shake felt in Vegas.
• 1:23:56
  Yeah, you felt them in Vegas.
• 1:23:58
  Rainier Mesa was tunnel kingdom.
• 1:24:00
  Each had its own geology, its own headaches.
• 1:24:03
  Put all of it together and you're running a very small city drills, welders, explosive
• 1:24:10
  handlers, USGS and Desert Research Institute geologists.
• 1:24:15
  Los Alamos was everywhere.
• 1:24:17
  Livermore everywhere.
• 1:24:19
  Sandia test crews, containment evaluation panels that would interrogate your plan like
• 1:24:25
  it was a cross examination and control points tying the whole circus together.
• 1:24:30
  So I was only there for one shot.
• 1:24:35
  I was there for prep for three, I think it was because there were three going on at the
• 1:24:40
  same time. But, uh, you know, that final checklist, it was tons of paper, instrument
• 1:24:46
  queue, uh, crews doing checklists, range.
• 1:24:49
  Um, everybody goes cold.
• 1:24:51
  They pull everybody out.
• 1:24:52
  Um, arming sequence goes on.
• 1:24:54
  You hear, uh, the countdown goes down the same as everyone else.
• 1:24:59
  You feel a huge explosion.
• 1:25:02
  Sometimes, like I said, they felt them in Vegas.
• 1:25:05
  And then the seismic confirms no immediate venting, air samplers on towers and things
• 1:25:12
  like that. So a quick word about failures.
• 1:25:17
  People love to tell the story, you know, about what I told you, you know, things like
• 1:25:21
  the guy falling down the hole and stuff like that.
• 1:25:24
  But it was actually been fairly safe.
• 1:25:27
  Um, I, I want to talk a little bit about, um, some of the desert rock footage in the
• 1:25:36
  fifties, the Pentagon ran desert rock troop exercises, and we had to watch the videos
• 1:25:43
  soldiers in trenches, watching the mushrooms with pair of like x-ray goggles on doing
• 1:25:50
  maneuvers. We had to watch those training films later.
• 1:25:53
  By the time I was out there, nobody was staging photo ops and fossil foxholes containment
• 1:26:00
  and distance, uh, you know, aren't optics.
• 1:26:03
  These people, there were a ton of people, um, radiated because of those things that
• 1:26:09
  died, not good stuff.
• 1:26:11
  Um, who decides horizontal versus vertical?
• 1:26:15
  The shafts when you, uh, when you have clean containment and a certain yield and
• 1:26:19
  geology is friendly tunnels.
• 1:26:22
  When, when you want line of sight radiation experiments, um, by UD Mesa, when you
• 1:26:28
  hauled out deep rigs, uh, for deep holes, 1300 meters plus.
• 1:26:32
  So Vegas didn't get rattled and a yucca flats where you put a hundred, uh, you know,
• 1:26:38
  volume tons of these hundreds and hundreds of drill holes out there.
• 1:26:43
  So two more spacing, let's talk about spacing.
• 1:26:47
  You don't put shots cheek to cheek, um, minimum separation.
• 1:26:53
  So one cavities fracture don't compromise a prior test.
• 1:26:57
  So you got a plan.
• 1:26:59
  And the second one, you can drill back into the chimney to pull out glass and gas
• 1:27:04
  samples of a test that's already been done.
• 1:27:07
  That's where clever physics come from radio chemistry that can tell you the yield and
• 1:27:13
  how the device actually behaved even years later.
• 1:27:17
  So if you want to scale picture to set the scene, you know, we tested in a
• 1:27:23
  reservation larger than Rhode Island, ran shots from a control panel.
• 1:27:28
  It looked like a mission control, don't drill shafts deep enough to hide
• 1:27:32
  skyscrapers and strong enough cable to lasso the whole County.
• 1:27:37
  Then we asked the rocks to keep our secrets.
• 1:27:40
  And for the most part they have.
• 1:27:44
  So the segment that we're going to close out the show with tonight, um, is, uh, the
• 1:27:50
  safety truth.
• 1:27:51
  You know, every containment plan really is a bet.
• 1:27:56
  And how much do you want to bet?
• 1:27:58
  You know, um, I think, and I always used to say this, you know, we don't need to, I
• 1:28:04
  don't believe we needed anywhere near the nearly a thousand that we did in testing.
• 1:28:11
  And we'll get to those numbers later in this, uh, this, uh, program, which we're
• 1:28:16
  going to do again tomorrow night.
• 1:28:17
  Um, stemming geology, you know, these are, I tell you what, underground tests are not
• 1:28:25
  fireworks.
• 1:28:26
  These are surgery.
• 1:28:27
  And if you don't respect the geology, the geology is gonna educate you.
• 1:28:33
  It's all there is to it.
• 1:28:35
  Listen, tomorrow night, we're going to get into, we're going to talk about semi
• 1:28:39
  Palatinsk.
• 1:28:40
  We're going to talk about treaties.
• 1:28:42
  We're going to talk about Novaya Zemlya.
• 1:28:44
  We're going to talk about what everybody else did and, uh, in various places.
• 1:28:50
  Um, frankly, I find it interesting.
• 1:28:52
  And, uh, I'm also going to write another article in Russian, uh, on this topic when
• 1:28:57
  I'm finished, send it over, see if they'll publish something else for me, just because
• 1:29:02
  I like doing it.
• 1:29:03
  And, uh, uh, I like doing this show or I wouldn't do it.
• 1:29:06
  And I hope you find this topic interesting that you listen again tomorrow night.
• 1:29:11
  And we talk about what our government is getting into, maybe again, at least
• 1:29:18
  according to the old Trumpster saying that we could, uh, Oh, geez, we might be
• 1:29:22
  doing an underground testing again.
• 1:29:24
  Russia won't do it.
• 1:29:25
  They've said for years, we will not do it unless the U S does it first.
• 1:29:30
  But if they do it first, all bets are off.
• 1:29:32
  My name is Samuel Trapp.
• 1:29:34
  This is international flavor.
• 1:29:36
  You're listening to me from the Lake Ozark real state of the art studio every
• 1:29:41
  night from 9 PM to 10 30, Sunday through Thursday, I very much appreciate you.
• 1:29:46
  Hope to see you tomorrow night at the same time on the very same bat channel.
• 1:29:55
  Good night.