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Celebrating Arbor Day: Identifying, Choosing and Protecting Trees · Talking Trees with Davey Tree

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Davey Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Doug Oester.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees Podcast, we know trees are the answer.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm joined again today by Scott Gardner.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: He's a district manager for the Davy Tree Expert Company in Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're talking about celebrating Arbor Day every day, because that's what we are taping on Arbor Day and why tree plantings and mature tree care are equally as important.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the show, Scott.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh thanks for having me, Doug.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing well.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is uh this is a great day, uh, Arbor Day.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think any celebration of trees is uh is something to be uh celebrating.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're surrounded by them.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: They're so resilient and so necessary.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's great to great to be able to interact with them.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um shouldn't you be off?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Shouldn't you be off on Arbor Day?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my asked my boss, but he said no.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, it's uh with it, uh we're surrounded by trees, but uh I think uh there's a uh assumption that some people feel like the size of the tree uh dictates how valuable the tree is, where that's not quite the case.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um there are there are juvenile trees that have just been planted that are equally beneficial, if not more beneficial, than mature trees.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I think when people look at trees and they see a big tree, they go, oh, this is an old one, this is uh old growth, this is amazing.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when it might be a 30-year-old tree that's just an aggressively growing species.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And in that scenario, people are gonna value that tree higher than a newly planted sapling of, say, an oak tree that's gonna take 80 years to get to the same point that that uh that 20-year-old uh um say cottonwood is.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So with it, um, it's it's really important to like look at your trees and know what the species is.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, equally, uh, when you're putting a tree into a landscape, uh, choosing what what the size of the tree is going to be for that space, what the ecology is going to be, what the sunlight exposure is, all of those things.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk a little bit about knowing what your trees are.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's a great point and something I hadn't thought of before.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And when I think about it, I can tell you on my property what an oak and a sassafras are, but I can't tell you the difference between a red oak and a white oak.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there like there's very subtle uh indications of what the differences are um in the different uh varieties of trees.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And uh now I'm a master arborist, which people automatically think I know every tree, which unfortunately I don't.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's more a matter of I can identify the differences between the trees.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: But uh the difference between the red oak and the white oak and those type of things, um, it can really matter in the amount of growth that a tree will have.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, each different uh uh cultivar has its own uh growth patterns.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So just because it's an oak doesn't mean it's going to be a fast-growing tree.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so specifically identifying the correct tree is very important because I I go to clients' houses all the time and we're looking at a massive tree, and they say, My landscaper or the nursery told me this is a dwarf tree, it was going to be really small, and it's there, it's like 80 feet tall, and they're like, I don't know.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so it it is important.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how many times have you heard that story uh where they tell you one thing or it's labeled one way, and then when we get into the real world, it grows differently.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, just it's it's endless.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a lot of stories where that happens.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's that's where uh the expertise comes in, where it's not just planting a tree, you need to identify the growth patterns, the uh um the bark.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're not grabbing because it could be as simple as in the nursery they put out uh an oak for one client and an oak for another, and they pick up the wrong tree, right?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like it it could be something that simple, um, where if you don't if you don't uh know what it is, it's very easy to make a quick uh switch up.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh that the selection of trees is so important and the correct identification is so important.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um because when you plan out what tree's going to be in there uh in that space, uh you have like you have to think about the uh the watering uh requirements, the sun, the uh how it's going to interact with the other space.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And with it, if you get the wrong tree, then you're constantly going to be battling it.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um the clients that I have that they're on a great watering program and a fertilizer program, and then we never prune their trees, I'm always concerned.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, why aren't we doing other work there?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then I go and look at the trees, and they planted the right trees that are growing for the space.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, there isn't any work to do because they planned it out well ahead of time.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's one option.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: The other is we have these clients who are calling us back every year fighting, hey, cut it down more, cut it down more.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: I want it smaller, it's too big, it's dropping this, it's dropping that.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and they're constantly battling because they don't get a tree that actually works with their space.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a tree that's dropping debris all the time, don't put that over a pool.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's not it'll shade your pool, but you're gonna be you're gonna be in misery.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so this is where these I would say the juvenile trees could be considered even more valuable than those large mature trees.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So how?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: How is the smaller one more valuable in your opinion?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well the the part of it that makes it more valuable is because you have the choice of what you're putting in there.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you if you have a tree that's on a site, say you just bought a house and you're walking onto this to this house.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: If if you have a tree that's there and you go, ah, you know what, the tree was already here, I'm gonna keep that tree.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: But the tree wasn't planted.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was like a seed that was dropped by a bird that is a highly aggressive growing tree that's basically a weed that's gonna go to like 160 feet and be highly dangerous.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that you want to get rid of right away.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're unaware of this, you walk into the site and you don't realize that that's actually a huge problem.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's where you can really get into the problem where a larger tree is appeared or is perceived to be more valuable than it is.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Mind you, I do think both are valuable.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right, sure, sure.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about your climate where you're at in British Columbia.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: When I think of it, from just seeing that part of Canada, I think it's like this amazing climate.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh am I overselling it?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh tell me what what what what it is from your point of view.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um an amazing climate, I'm gonna say 100%, yes.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have the Rockies and the mountains that are right above us, and we're kind of in this little pocket that when you look at the um the uh the different equator or like the the place that we are on the globe, and say you go over to Ontario, um, it would be freezing rock, like it would be like a horrible climate, the like not very um uh hospitable.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas here, it's it's almost tropical.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we have a lot of warmth, we have very little snow, we have tons of rain.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um ironically, we can have banana plants and palm trees grow here.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we're in this, like, this environment that's like more similar to like Portland or California, um, but we're so high north.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it makes it that plants will grow very easily, but also that also means that the pest population is going to be a lot more vigorous because uh we don't have the freezes, we don't have the other things.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it comes, it's a double-edged sword, but it is a very unique uh climate where uh things thrive.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Our bigger problem is things growing too quickly, not uh slow growth.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good problem to have.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely didn't oversell it, but the part I didn't the part I didn't think about were the pests.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, when we get uh we had a really tough winter here in the eastern U.S.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a positive for hemlock woolyadalgia and things like that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: The the cold knocked things back, but not having that, uh that's an issue you guys have to deal with, uh I'm sure on a daily basis.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh like a key example would be um Stanley Park.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the uh hemlock looper moth came through three, four years ago.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And because the population was able to spike as much as it did, that just destroyed the hemlocks.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now, half of the uh park has been uh just like basically logged because it's dead standing hemlock trees.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the the problem with it is the the populations are able to really spike in a high way.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now, we talked about this last time, uh, the uh EAB coming through here.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So EAB has been discovered in Burnaby, Vancouver.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we also it was also found in Surrey, where there's a huge outbreak.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's like uh there was a road of trees, of ash trees, that one year the inspectors were watching it because there was some construction going on.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: They came back the next year.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: The bark had literally peeled off because the population spiked so much within that one year.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: So those that's where we're seeing like really aggressive growth by certain pests where it might not have that uh that ability to go as quickly, so it's easier to manage in those other places.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's again something I didn't think about.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: When we had Emerald Ash borer come through, we had a freeze, you know, to slow it down.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, where you guys uh uh I can't even think of what's happening since the last time we talked.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it I still think about that conversation.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh whenever you you're encountering somebody who has Emerald Ash borer on their doorstep, it's terrible from a tree lover's perspective.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and the it's very discouraging.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have a client which is a strata, they have uh 80 units, and right in front of all of the houses, they decided to plant ash.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I have given them a proposal to uh to inject the trees to be able to save them.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the council decided, no, you know what, we don't need that.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: We don't need that.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna do that.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna forego doing that treatment.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: So essentially the decision that they just made was that they are going to remove all those trees.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's do they understand that they're gonna have to remove all those trees, or are they just saying they're not gonna do it because they don't think it's a problem?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Or they're saying it's gonna be cheaper for them just to cut them down?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: I i I think it's they don't understand it.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I've presented it to them multiple times, I've explained to them the situation, um, and they're choosing not to do it.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: They might go with another company and do it that way, which I hope, because like I would rather they actually save those trees.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: But with it, there's just this thought that um these pests are like when there are pests that are going to kill your plants and you have something you can do, it's discouraging to see people not take that seriously.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we haven't had mass tree removals.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and until we do, people aren't gonna realize it.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the cities who are dealing with it here are tr like they're very quiet about it.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: They they're not wanting to publicize how bad it actually is or the things that are at stake.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, or maybe they are, like, I I'm not to disparage the uh the cities, but with it, um, I don't think that uh the seriousness of this has really uh landed for people in the area.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to get too far in the weeds on this, but I can't believe people are not like like they don't believe it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm it's it's it's happening.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's it you we've seen it happen.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: We've had we've watched our all our ash trees die.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen it, we've seen it happen, and that's in a climate that they're not uh as aggressive as they're gonna be in your climate.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever, and and I can't imagine how frustrating this could be as again as an expert arborist to not be listened to about this.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is crazy.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, ML Ashborg is gonna you're gonna take all your ashes.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter what you do.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: If the only thing you can do is inject those trees, otherwise they're they're gone.
• 13:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Period.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: So with it, I think I'll I'll start uh giving them.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: When I start giving those proposals, I think the thing that I haven't been doing that I'm gonna start doing is putting the price for removing all the trees and stump grinding and planting so that they can see what the uh cost is going to be that they are going to have to do.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And all the pluses of a tree, uh stormwater mitigation, shade, beauty, wildlife, the whole thing.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think you need to get a PowerPoint together, Scott.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, it's uh the there's uh I think there's a lot of I want to say ignorance where people aren't aware of the um of what's happening.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: When when I was in Ontario during the uh beginning of the outbreak in 2014, we we had um some kids that chained themselves to a dead ash tree because they wanted to save the tree.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now, those same kids are 10 years down the road here, um, and they're just uh it's it's they have the ability to actually save these ones and they're not.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's something that um hopefully uh we uh we are able to do some of it.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: But there is the other aspect of it that you know what, juvenile uh ash trees, maybe the better option is to remove them now, right?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would say now that it's been discovered here, uh when we go back to when we circle this conversation back to the mature tree and the juvenile tree, now we have the opportunity where all of those ash trees really should be removed.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: So long as the uh boars in the um in the landscape, it will destroy them.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you are going to have to inject them indefinitely to save those trees.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there are some mature trees that it might be worth it if they're in a prominent location, they hold that high value.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe we inject them.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: But some of these juvenile ones, maybe we get to remove them and now we get to choose what we're doing.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe we don't have a monoculture where when we do lose a tree, we're losing all of that block.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, designers have consistently put the same trees down a single block so that when something comes in, bam, that block's gone.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now you have no trees on the block.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: So there's been a lot of um uh discussion about diversity in the uh in the landscape, but we still see them clumping these trees together.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So even though you have a diverse uh um landscape uh with different trees uh along the uh stri cities, um, you still get them bulked together.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: So they're like, okay, we have our our diversity, we have all these mixed trees, but they have them in clumps here, here, here, and here.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: So they have that nice uniformity.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: But hopefully uh as we move forward, the diversity uh trickles in a little bit more.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: So let's continue with diversity.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: When you do get to a property, are clients responsive to that?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: To to like, listen, you're better off to grow one of these, one of these, and one of these, and not five of the same thing because of the reasons we've just uh explained.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: I would say uh oftentimes, yes, I would say most clients are fairly receptive to it.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the thing with planting trees is it is the hardest part of my job.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason is putting a tree in the ground is a simple task.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: That is very easy.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: The hard part is thinking about how the trees are gonna grow, how they're gonna interact, how the client's going to use them.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you start to get that nailed down, then you have like even when you pick a specific tree, say uh an oak or a maple, now you have like another 50 different options for that, how it's gonna grow, where it's gonna be, all of these things.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it it is a uh gigantic task to plant a tree.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think uh people under underestimate what that is.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if it was as simple as, hey Scott, we want to plant a tree, just go plant one, that's easy.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would I could do that day after day.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: But with it, there's so much complexity to it.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I like with trees, um I'm oftentimes looking at the sun as the number one thing that I'm thinking about with trees.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about where is the shade going to create.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you can get a large broadleaf tree on the south side of your property, that's gonna shade your house and in the summertime.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then in the wintertime, it's going to allow sunlight to hit the roof and warm up your house.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna get this extra value from that tree.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then there's sight lines, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to block the view of your neighbor?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to have it so it grows out of the way and so you get the shade, but you can see your neighbors or see some other feature?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's there's just endless uh factors that get into the equation.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but though it's the hardest thing to do, I would say it's also one of the most rewarding.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: If we remove a tree, I go up and I say, Hey, you see this plot of uh soil here?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: We remove the tree that was here.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: People are like, oh great, yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: But if I say the same thing, hey, this tree here, I planted this.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was this high when I planted it, look at it now.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a lot more rewarding uh doing the second.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Scott, I'm gonna leave that right there because that is an awesome way to finish up this podcast.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I could talk to you all day, buddy.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: I really could.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: I really could.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I I love picking your brain and and hearing uh about I I just love your passion for the planting and and figuring it all out.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's awesome.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks so much for your time, and I can't wait to talk to you again, buddy.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, always a pleasure, and I'm looking forward to next time too.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees Podcast from the Davy Tree Expert Company.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Doug Oester, and you know what I want.
• 19:50
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• 19:56
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• 20:02
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• 20:08
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• 20:12
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• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, we'd like to remind you on the Talking Trees podcast trees are the answer.