Latest / The Redeemed Backslider / Radically Saved After Meth & Prison- Dennis Fulton TRB Episode # 41

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Radically Saved After Meth & Prison- Dennis Fulton TRB Episode # 41 · The Redeemed Backslider

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: With your host, Kathy Chestdain, Christian-based psychotherapist and the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and freedom.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_05: Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_05: I'm your host, Kathy Chestain.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_05: I'm a Redeemed Backslider and a Christian-based psychotherapist.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_05: With me in the studio today is Dennis Fulton, and I don't know a whole lot about his story, but what I do know is that it is nothing short of miraculous, like everybody that comes to the Lord.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_05: So with that, welcome to the studio, Dennis.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks for having me.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm really glad you're here.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I was born and raised in Modesto, California.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I grew up in a trailer park in South Modesto, if anybody knows about that.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: I uh my dad was an alcoholic.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh my mom went through periods of depression.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: She was addicted to pills, and then later on, she was uh addicted to meth.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: So my whole life pretty much was surrounded with addiction.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Addiction.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_05: Did you have siblings?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I had a sister.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: I actually have three sisters.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: I only grew up with one, she was an addict, also, and so everybody was an addict.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Or dealing with something, you know, that's it's it's funny the things that you grow up with, it's it's what you know.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's just normal for you.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's normal.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's both my uncles sold meth and they were drug users and in and out of prison, and so like they were like my heroes.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I wanted to be, because that's who I looked up to, you know, and so when you look back at your childhood, what do you think about?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_05: Do you feel like you had a childhood?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_05: Do you did you guys function as a family?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_05: Because you know, some some people that are in addiction are alcoholics.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_05: Dad goes to work, comes home, has dinner.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, the family functions in some form of family unit, like we would think, you know, going to school, having dinner together, mom's in the kitchen.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_05: How is your how is your childhood?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think I had a pretty good childhood.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, looking back, it probably wasn't the best.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: When my dad was sober and my mom and dad were together, it was pretty good because my dad was the discipliner.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like he kept he kept me in line, you know.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it was when my parents were together, it it was good.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we were still were poor, we still struggled.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: My dad was still an alcoholic, you know, we moved around a lot.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, my dad was still a dad.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: He still took me and taught me how to fish and you know, took me camping and did stuff like that.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: And he didn't like I wasn't abused, I wasn't, you know, he was strict, but like I wasn't like I don't remember no like childhood trauma or nothing like that.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_05: So it was more lifestyle, yeah.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was just okay the way it was.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, like I I mean it's probably different than a lot of kids grew up, but for me, I don't feel like it was the worst.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it wasn't the best, but I mean You felt loved, yeah.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, I felt loved.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's huge.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like my dad, I know my dad, he he he did his best with what he could do, and my mom, she did her best with what she knew.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they we didn't grow up like God wasn't really a part of my childhood.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: I had different points in my childhood when I like like we lived across the street from a church, and I remember going over there all the time, and I remember even getting baptized and being in like the Christmas play.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, and then later on, uh we had a church bus that would come through the trailer park and they would pick us up and take us across the bridge, and we would go to church there.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I remember points in my childhood when I would like go to church, but my parents never really went.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was just me going, like it was like God was already instilling stuff in me, and and I didn't even know it at the time until later on looking back, and then I could see okay.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: There was his hand, yes, he was there the whole time, whether I knew it or felt it or anything, like he was guiding me, he was leading me.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right, and now that I look back, I'm like, okay, I see what you were doing, God.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you know, mm-hmm.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and so did you know that you were poor when you were a kid, or do you just know that now as you look at it?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_05: No, I I knew we were poor.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I knew we were poor, and then as I started growing up a little bit, I you know, you you learn how to survive in those in the neighborhood.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know what you you learn what you gotta do.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like my dad was always uh pothead, so like I would steal my dad's weed and sell joints to my friends on the side, and that's just what I learned how to do.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, yeah.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: You you adapt to whatever environment you were you grew up in, right?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so it's like it's funny because I I like look at people and they'll like they'll look at people and they'll look down on them.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like most people are just a product of their environment.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what they were taught, what they learned when they were young, like you don't know any better.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's all we knew.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_05: I know with like poverty, for example, um people that really know it, it it can have a real negative effect because it wounds their self-esteem.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_05: And so, like if you know you're poor and you go to school with other kids and you know it can make you feel less than a lot if you're aware.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_05: If you're not aware and it life is just this is just my life, then it doesn't have that same negative effect.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_05: That's asking.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: I had points because like at certain points, like me and my dad living in a bus for a while, and like I remember I was in junior high and he like he had this old uh pacer car, and like he got in a wreck, so there was no door on the passenger side, and he had ropes going across, and like he picked me up in front of the school, and I was like, Oh my god, you're embarrassed.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was so embarrassed.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Dad, why can you park down the way?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know, it just it wasn't really not um there was only a couple moments where I was like, like, you know, people like, hey, I want to come to your house, and I was like, nah, we'll just go to your house or this or that, you know, but it wasn't really no big deal.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was just yeah, whatever.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, so it didn't have a huge negative impact on you.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: Just the environment growing up in, I I think was the negative right, the addiction, yeah.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Learning learning how to survive, what I had to do.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I I didn't know it was super negative then, but I just knew like, hey, this is if I want new shoes, then I gotta sell drugs.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: If I want to do this, then that's what I gotta do.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_05: So how old were you when you figured that out?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: When you started to have to steal your dad's joints or so I I mean, I started smoking weed when I was probably 10 behind my dad's back, and then 'cause you were stealing his?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I watched him.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like I watched him grow weed, I watched him sell weed, I watched him do all that.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, of course, I want to see what it's about.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then I stole some and I started smoking it, and that was like the start.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then my mom smoked cigarettes, so I would steal her cigarettes and I would start smoking cigarettes, and then my life really took a turn when my parents split up.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: How old were you?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was like 13, maybe 12 and a half, 13, somewhere in there.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's when well it was a little, it was probably sixth grade.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: So when they split up, I would go back and forth, and my dad, he was still like the discipliner is still strict.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't do this, I couldn't hang out with certain people, I couldn't do that.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, my mom was getting into meth, so like I would go live with my mom, and like I can run the streets and do whatever I wanted.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like the streets were just it was you when you're 13, 14-year-old kid and you can do whatever you want, like feels like freedom.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: There's yeah, it's freedom.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then you, you know, uh, you were introduced to girls, and then this and that.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was like it was I went from not being able to do nothing to do whatever I want.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, it was a lot for me.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was a lot for me.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like getting popular with certain people, and I was girls were noticing me, and it was like pretty soon me and my dad got into it one time, and because I dropped out of school, and my dad didn't know, but I was going acting like I was going to school every day.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he found out, and we got into it.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he found out, and I came home one day and like he locked me in the trailer and like beat me from one end of the trailer all the way to the bat.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was it was crazy, and that was like that was the end for me and my dad when I was a kid, because yeah, my mom came over and I was like gone.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: I just took off.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_05: And so me and my dad were like how old were you when you dropped out of school?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh probably 13.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_05: So you were still young.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: I was young, yeah.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: We were in junior high.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_05: That I think junior high is the toughest.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was just starting, I was just starting high school, and like I was that was it.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was already starting to ditch school, and I was like, we were getting drunk when we would ditch, and you know, all the stuff the kids would do, and yeah, that was it.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so I moved in with my mom.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: When I moved in with my mom, everyone around my mom was already using med.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, at first I was like, I don't want nothing to do with it, but after a while, I had I met this girl and she was a little bit older than me.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And she was on it, and my mom was on it, and like everybody in the house was on it.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: And finally, one day I was just like, I'm gonna do it.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right, and so I went to my mom and I was like, I want, I want to, I want some back then it was called crank.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I want some crank, I wanna do it.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Just and so my mom was like, Alright, so she gave me some, and that was like that was it for me.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I never felt anything like that before the high was like crazy, and I was like and I wouldn't sleep, and I like it was just the end.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: It was the beginning of the end for me, because like I entered into a different world, a different society, a different mindset than I ever experienced before, and it like it changes people, you know, it changes a 14-year-old kid, you know, and like and my girlfriend was living with me at the time, and like at 14?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_05: Cause that was the lifestyle everybody just kind of stayed at everybody's house.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_05: That's how it was.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_04: That's how it was.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_05: Dennis, what what have you th have you thought much about the fight you got into with your dad when he beat you like that?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh have you I would have done I mean, like back then I I knew it was inevitable.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was just because it wanted to be.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: I know the way that my dad felt like I was like deceiving him.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like I would get up every day like I was going to school and not go be gone all day, doing whatever I want, and then come up at the end of the day and be like, oh, school was good, this is that.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: So like I did that for like months.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like he felt I think he felt deceived and hurt more than anything.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: And he wanted good for me, and so he probably took it a little too far too, which you know, but I don't mean to dive too far into that.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_05: And and if you don't want to go there, you don't have to, but but I when you look at that situation, do you think your dad was in a rage?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_05: Because there's a difference between disciplining and being angry and smacking your kid versus beating your kid and and being in a full-on rage to where that switch gets flipped, and then you know, the way you described it made me feel like he wasn't able to stop.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_05: Once he once he started, he really wasn't able to slap because you said he beat you from one end of the trailer to the other.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um and that goes beyond the idea of okay, you're in trouble, you screwed up.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_05: You probably shouldn't have done that.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_05: It makes you feel a certain way.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was probably a little much, you know, but I didn't take it like to me.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think I used it as an opportunity to break free from that what was holding me back from what I thought that I wanted to be.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: There was no more that was my opportunity to be like, alright, dad, I'm done.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna do whatever I want now, and like there's nothing holding me back.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I that's what I did.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: I used it, I used it as a as a scapegoat.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and done.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, all right, I'm gone.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that was the tipping point.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then Yeah, I had nothing else to nothing to hold me back, no, and then from that point, I think I was like 14.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: I had about another year and a half of running the streets and like doing all that before I got arrested.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_05: What kind of kid were you before you started meth?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_05: Were you a shy kid?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_05: Were you outgoing?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_05: Were you funny?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_05: Were you rambunctious?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_05: Were you bored?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_05: Like, no.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_05: Do you remember what you were like?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I was a pretty good kid, I think.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like was it easy to talk to people?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Did you were you quiet?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think I went through stages, like you know, I had like three or four good good buddies, and like we were close, and it was always easier for me to like talk to girls and stuff like that.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I wasn't like popular or nothing like that, but I was like, I was getting into sports.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was I don't know.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I I watch kids because I see a lot of kids in my practice, and so I I'm always curious, you know.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes kids get into I know with the UIU did, but you know, they find an outlet through drugs or alcohol because they have a way to express, because maybe they're quiet, maybe they're sensitive, maybe they're shy.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: It gave me a sense of popularity, I would think, you know, and when you use meth, you feel powerful, you feel like you're a superman, like you're you know, it just it gives you uh uh the the high is it's different.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it gave me a sense of like I could do whatever I wanted.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was and you know, looking back on my on who my uncles were, it was like okay, I could see myself being that now.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: I could be the the guy, the the main guy in the hood doing whatever I wanted to do, you know, and so so you idealized it.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, yeah.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_05: So these were your uh uncles on your mom's side?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_05: My dad's side.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Your dad's my dad's brothers.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_05: So if you were um you weren't seeing your dad at that time, were they still coming over to your mom's house?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, yeah, they were I well, I was I was always going around them because like I knew we're I mean, when I grew up in South Modesto, my uncle lived in the trailer park, my other uncle lived in the trailer park, and like I could go and get drugs, do whatever I want.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_05: So And was your dad in the peripheral?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: My dad bounced when me and my dad got into it, he left to the mountains.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and got up got away from everything, which I don't blame him.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I was gonna say it sounded like I would have too I kind of got away, yeah.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: I would have too.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_05: So, okay, so at 14 you started using meth.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_05: And then what?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_05: And then I started getting busted for crimes.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_05: Was that to for your habit?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_05: Uh or was it just part of the lifestyle of of the uh it was more back then when I was a kid, it was more of the lifestyle, the the thrill, the trying to make a name, you know, the fun of it type was there gang involvement then or was it just neighborhood type popularity?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was just more neighborhood.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like we were our own little gang to each other.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like big like um right nothing like that.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: We were just bad kids and we would do anything.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_05: Which no fear no fear no fear at all.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_05: That's always so surprising to me.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think a lot had to do with the drugs.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it could be no fear because it was like you know, I was never scared to fight because you grow up fighting, and and so it was like how far can I go?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: How much can I do?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_05: Were you trying?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_05: Were you were you testing that theory to see?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm I don't know what I don't I wasn't really testing the theory, I was just going day to day.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever came my way, whatever I mean.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_05: I know at that time you would not have cognitively known any of that, but I I've wondered as you've been living for God all these years, if you've gone back to process any of that or to really go like, oh, this is what that meant, this is what I was doing.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_05: Some people do do that and other people don't.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_05: They're just like so happy to be done, they don't even look back, they just move forward.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I I've looked back quite a bit, you know.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: When I was in in CYA, like we go to a lot of groups, so we looked back quite a bit.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was just going, I I don't I don't think I knew the consequences of all my actions when I first got in, you know.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: I just I didn't I didn't know that things were gonna get so crazy so fast.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was just going day to day and then boom.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: You mean when you started using when I started using, then I started doing crime and started doing the violent stuff and like it got crazy like fast.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_05: So what was your first crime and how did that come to be?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh my first crime was auto theft.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_05: That's a huge like I thought you were gonna tell me you you know went to the candy store and Stole some alcohol or something like that.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: You're freaking out.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: I did all that.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the first time I got busted for anything was auto theft.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I did I used I stole stuff.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I did steal it out of stores, did all that, did everything.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: The first thing I ever got busted for was auto theft.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_05: Like, why would a neighborhood kid be stealing a car?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Why wouldn't you?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_05: Were you joy riding?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_05: Were you 16 years old at that time?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_05: No, I was I was 14, almost 15.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_05: So you didn't have a car, you just thought, oh, and take it out.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: I had cars when I would steal them.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, come across them.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: And for you, it was just fun.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was fun, yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it was transportation.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like And you didn't think I was driving to I was driving to high school every week in a different car, and like it was just and it never occurred to you that you stole this car and you could get arrested for that.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I mean it occurs, but it wasn't a time I was invincible, so like I didn't really think about it.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't really care.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: I was just going.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_05: Just living your days.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_05: Just living.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Just living.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_05: Whatever came next.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever came next.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so I got busted for auto theft, and I went to jail for like six hours.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: And they let me out.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because you were a kid.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was a kid.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, this is nothing.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: So they let me out.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then two weeks later I got busted for an armed robbery.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that one was a little bit more serious.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: They kept me in for like six days.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_05: Was it a gun, a knife?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, it was uh we got into it with these with these people around the apartment complex we lived, and I like we took their chain and took some other stuff from them, and so they told on us, and so they got us for arm robbery.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: They said we had a knife and a bat and some other stuff, which we did, but it wasn't like, hey, give me your stuff.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was just like we got into it with them, they got into it with us, and so we took their stuff and they were mad about it, and so they told on us.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I was in for like six days that time, and uh they let me out on an ankle monitor and a house arrest, and so I could go to court.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was probably out I don't know, a month after that, and then I got busted for uh murder, carjacking, kidnapping, and robbery.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_06: All at one time, all one case.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_06: Wow.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_06: Do you want to talk about that?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_06: Uh how old were you at that time?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_06: Fifteen.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_06: So young.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Fifteen.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was fifteen at the time that happened, and there was like three adults involved, and with you?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: And a couple kids, and it was like it started off as a as a as a uh carjacking and it just escalated.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Until somebody lost their life, yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was up for three weeks with no excuses.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not making excuses, but I was up for three weeks and without sleep.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was a kid and it just happened.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, things happened.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: It got things got out of control and it happened, and I got busted.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was probably I was probably the one of the lowest points of my whole life, but it was the first time that I sought God because you know, I was 15 years old and they were trying to give me 55 to life.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was scared.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like stuff started hitting home.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, the reality.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was like, I I might never get out again in my life.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and I was in there for like two years and I was like, I prayed to God, you know, I was I was scared because I just I didn't know things were gonna get to where they got.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and it wasn't like I made the conscious decision to go out and I'm gonna go out and kill somebody or do this or do that.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was just reaction, things got out of control and it ended up the way it ended up.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so I fought my case for like two years, and again, it was it was God looking out for me because I could have just as easily got life, yeah.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I ended up getting juvenile life, which was till I was 25.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I ended up with probably like 10 years, and I got sent to the California Youth Authority.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've heard about that, yeah, but they don't really have them no more.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: But back then it was prison for kids for kids.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so that was the beginning.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't change nothing.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I got, you know, God got me through that, and I got juvenile life, and I was thinking, man, because you knew at 25 you'd get out.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Out, they gotta let you out when you're 25.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like you dodged a bullet too.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: I dodged, I was like 10 years.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh I could do that.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_05: Did anyone else get busted in that case with you?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, everybody pretty much got busted.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Some people got life and some people got out.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was a big thing.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was a big thing, life-changing, crazy crazy event.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I went back and you know, I've everything's under the blood now.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I like God He's he's seen me through for a reason because he knew I didn't know at the time, but he knew where he would be, where I would be.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I didn't I never thought I would be where I would be, but he knew, and so he he's seen me through, and he's seen me through, and he's seen me through.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_05: And so I think though what what you just said is really powerful, and I I like for you to talk about how you got to that point.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_05: Cause even when I interviewed Brother Mahaney and Keith and others that, you know, have done some crazy stuff, um, Brother Mahaney said, even there's still shame there that he still works through with God, you know, and and even Keith and some of the other people that have done, you know, some pretty violent things to others, it's very difficult for them to um they know that God forgives them, they feel the love of God, um, but the process of really allowing it to stay under the blood is so difficult, you know.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um I'm I'm happy to hear you say that, and I can feel it from you that you're living that, you know, it's it's you really have a revelation of that, I believe.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, at first when, you know, when I f finally, you know, years and years later, because I didn't change my life then, you know, I went to YA and I I did 10 years and I got out and I went right back to doing what I was doing, and then I so it took me a long time to like sometimes I wonder, like, God, like, why me?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like why but I I mean I understand why because you know it says in Revelation there's there's power in the blood and the word of your testimony.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's everything He did for me wasn't for me, right?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it was for whoever I so God just saved me so I could help others, right?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't nothing to do with me, right?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: He would do it for anybody, yes, he just knew that I would be obedient and willing later down the road to uh do whatever he wanted me to do, yeah, and so it's it's easy to be my testimony that that's powerful, right?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because God can use anybody, right?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter where you've been, what you did, like he could bring anything, and if he could use me, if he could change me, like bro, like there's nobody or nothing that he can't change that he can't save.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And if somebody could hear, oh, like he did that for you, man, what because some people, you know, a lot of people think like God can't change me, God can't use me like you don't know what I've done.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, dude, you don't know what I've done, right?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: And he's changed me, right?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: He could do it for anybody, right?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think that's I mean, if you look at everybody in the Bible, like Moses was a murderer, like David was a murderer, all these people were like, right, they weren't good people, right?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right, their hearts became good, like God knew, yeah, you know, and I wasn't a good person, I was selfish, I was a drug addict, I was violent, I was I was like, I was all about me, you know, and I wasn't a good person.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was not nothing that anybody, I mean, if I look back, I'm like, God, you don't want to use me because you ain't gonna get nothing good out of here.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: But God knows, yeah, he does, and and and he makes a way, he makes a way, he makes a way, and like it blows my mind because I know he forgives me, and I know that everything that I did in my past, it's under the blood, and I'm not I'm not gonna continue to just beat myself up over all these things because God's like, dude, it says in the Bible not only when you get baptized, not only does he forgive you, it's like it didn't happen.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I can continue to beat myself up all the time, or I can use the things that God saved me from to help others, right?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so it's you know, it's like in the Bible says God says you need to forgive others to be forgiven.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, part of that forgiveness, it's yourself also, right?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_07: And that that's very hard for people, yeah.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: It is yourself, it's yourself, like you have to forgive yourself, right?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I take responsibility for who I was and what I did.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't hide from it.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like I made mistakes, I wasn't perfect, uh, you know, but I serve a perfect God, yeah, right, and he makes off.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: If he wants to choose to use me, right?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna say no, right?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm not gonna be like, no, I'm too bad.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, at first I went through all that because I was like, this can't be real, like almost too good to be true.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I went through that for a long time.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this can't be real.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, God, like, I was an addict for 25 years, I shot dope, I I hurt people, I killed people, like I did all these bad things.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's millions of people on this earth.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Why, why, why, why would you use me?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I went through that for a while, and then I was waiting for when you go in and out of prison, because I like I said, I did 16 years in prison.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: I've I've been there for auto.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_05: Including your CYA.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: I did 10 years in CYA, and then I got out and I stayed out six months after 10 years, and I went back for a year and a half for manufacturing meth.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then I did a year and a half for that, and then I got out for two and a half, and I went back for two and a half more years for uh a bad check and some dope and some other stuff, and then I did a bunch of more terms like throughout my life, like two years here, year here.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was a revolving door, nothing changed.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: I did the time, I got healthy, I got my mind right.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: I even studied the Bible in there.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like I knew I knew Christ was God, I knew these things, I knew all this stuff, but like I didn't know him.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: I knew of him, I read the Bible, I knew he he died for my sins, like I knew all these things, but like I never truly felt who he was.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't know him, but I knew like that he existed, he existed, right?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: And he was real, yeah, and he was real, right?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: And but I just I I never knew, and so like I I was so addicted to the meth and to the lifestyle and to all that stuff, like I thought that was gonna be who I was forever, and I never wanted to quit using meth.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: I I just didn't.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_05: So I I totally am excited to hear your conversion piece, but when you were in CYE, were you using then?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_05: Because I know that they can get in prison, or were you clean for those two?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was clean most of that.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: I used it a couple times, but like I was clean most of that 10 years.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like I even went to college in there and got a degree, and like like my mind was like I wanted to change.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I you know, I was doing everything like to better my life.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: I you know, I got an A degree in there, I like did all the classes.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I you know I so you had to finish school, high school.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, I finished high school.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: I got I got my GD and my high school diploma, and then I started doing college classes, and then I did they why it was good back then because they the professors would come in from the streets and give you college classes, just like on the streets.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like they're really trying to rehabilitate was real still, especially for the kids and for all that.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: And like I was trying to better my life.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was still doing everything that you do in there, like all the fighting and all the all the gangs and all the all that stuff.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_05: Do you have to affiliate at that time?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody does, you do.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_05: That that's what I hear.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_05: Of course, I haven't been, so but I hear that more racial thing than anything else, right?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: You have to just be with your for whites, it's more a racial thing than it is like a north and south thing like that.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a racial thing mostly, you know, and you're taught to hate when you don't even know what you're hating, right?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_05: You know, yeah, it's just just to be part of the yeah, it's the way it is.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like the blacks hit the whites, the whites hit the mates, like it's you it's the way it is, and it's the system is like that, especially in in the in the California prison system.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's the way it is, right?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so of course you're affiliated.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's you right, you gotta.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and everything that comes with it, all the fighting, all the riots, all the everything, it like it's just a part of it, right?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it comes with it, and so that's what you learn.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_05: Were they bringing church in and AA groups?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah, and all that.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_05: There was church in there.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: Did you ever go to those every once in a while?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I think it was more of a make myself feel good kind of thing, than a like a really getting to know.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I had points in my life where I was I'm so glad you said that.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, because there are so many people.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, even with therapy and before therapy, I was uh in fitness, I could always tell the people that were coming to just be able to tell themselves they were coming to feel better about themselves, you know, versus the people that really was looking for help.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_05: You could tell a difference.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I wasn't I don't know.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: I I I was following my own path still.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was I was seeking knowledge, more knowledge than spiritual change.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's that's that's the best way to say it.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think to be honest, my spiritual change didn't even come until I felt the Holy Ghost.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_05: That was the ultimate I think that's the only way it can really game changer.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: I now I feel that way.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but like for me, I was like, when I really felt God, I was like, whoa, this is like nothing else, nothing else.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_06: It isn't, yeah.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I wouldn't have believed it unless I felt it.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: I seen the scripture and I all that, but like until I felt it, then I was like, okay, this is that's you know, growing up, and you know, I I always studied the Bible.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: I always want to know, you know, you had people coming in, and you know, just all you gotta do is is say the sinner's prayer and you're saved and you're good, and you know, and whatever.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: I would do it.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if I quite believed in it, or like, you know, I I I just didn't so you had like a heart towards God in like a reverence, I would say.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_05: You kind of you understood all of it was real, you just uh you know, you kind of reverenced it, but you didn't realize the difference, I guess, between I'm not explaining what I can see in my mind.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I have a hard time uh explaining what I see, but God would get my attention when I would go to prison and jail, like he I would slow down enough where he would kind of get my attention and I would start working on the better me, you know what I mean?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_05: And I would I would go to I even like from a place of desire or for from a place of thinking this is what I should do?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Desire.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to be better, okay.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to like part of me, half of me.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: Cause so like when you when you're running the streets and you're you're in, you know, you're you're high and you're doing all this all the time, like you're just you're going.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Everything's good, this or that.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: But when you get busted and you hit your bottom, it's different.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just you, and like I pushed my family away, I pushed my mom away, I did all these things, you know, my whole life.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm here and I'm I'm in a jail cell all by myself for hours and days and years, you know.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, it weighs on you.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it weighs on you, and and I wanted to change earlier in my life.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to get hype more.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um to be honest.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_05: Dennis, what was it um so I hear like with meth the euphoria lasts for a minute and then you're chasing the euphoria all the rest of the time?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_05: Like, so when you say, I want to get high, did you really just want to have that euphoric feeling, or was it, I don't want to live in reality, I just want to escape reality.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: I thought about that a lot too, because with you know, like I said, I I teach a life recovery class for addicts and recovering addicts and stuff.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like that.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had to go back and reevaluate myself first.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay, was I an addict because I was trying to escape something?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: Was I trying to hide something?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: Was I trying to this or that?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: But like to be completely honest, I didn't think I was.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: I just liked the high.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: And people say, well, that first high is the best high, and you can never get that.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: So you're always chasing it.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there's pretty good highs that are just as close to that first high that are that keep you wanting it.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not, and and with meth, it's not just the high, it's the people, it's the thrill, it's the lifestyle, it's the women, it's you know, it's the crime, it's it's everything.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and when you lived it for so long, like I did, like I I lived that lifestyle for 25 years.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't know.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's just what you knew.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's it was everything.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Everything.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I would go to prison, I would get good for a while, get healthy, work out, and I would get out and go right back to it.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: Every time.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: I would lie to my family while I was in there, say, I'm gonna get clean, get good.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: I I think I would even lie to myself and say, I'm gonna do good, I'm gonna do good.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: But like as soon as I hit the streets, within 30 days, I was already back all the way into what I wanted to be in, you know?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I pushed all my family away.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: I had a I I had a my first marriage ruined that.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: She's still an addict.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like I ruined every relationship I was ever in, and it took a long time to repair those, but luckily I had a praying mother.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: My mom, she my mom was an addict, but she got clean and she stuck by my side through everything.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_06: Wow, that's wonderful.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: She came to visit me in every single prison, every single jail.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I believe it was not just God's plan, it was her prayers that kept me probably safe.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, when times when I should have got killed, or I should have overdosed, or I should have been doing life in prison.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, my mom was like, Wow.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: When everybody else turned their back on me, like all my family, which I don't blame them, you know what I mean?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: My mom was like there, and she she she had a relationship with God, and like she prayed for me and sent me scripture all the time.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: She would send me scriptures, I would call and she we tell, like.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_05: Was she doing all that and still an addict, or did she get clean and then found the Lord?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, like halfway through my Y sentence, she got clean and like got her life right and like stayed clean for the rest of her life until she she passed from COVID in like three years ago.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: But shh, once she got clean, she got it for real.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: She got it for real.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because she got the Lord, yeah, and it was God.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it was God that kept her clean, right?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it was it was her prayers that kept me safe and kept my older sister safe because she was an addict, and like it was my mom like the whole time that just kept us, and it was awesome because she for the last five years of her life, she got to see us clean and that's wonderful.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_06: She got to see her life turn around.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: She got to see it when I finally came down and got my life straight, and she got to see it all, and she got to see all her kids together, and she got to see like and it was awesome.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was like everything was full circle.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: She got to see me get baptized, get the Holy Ghost, like wow, good, good, and it was like awesome.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it was good for her.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_05: So okay, you come out.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I had a lot of questions as you were talking.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_05: That's why I have my notebook, and I didn't write them down.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_05: I was just enthralled.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Interrupt me if you need to.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I get going, and so No, it's good.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_05: I I didn't wanna I didn't want to interrupt.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um I have to just regroup a little bit.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_05: So you come out, you get right back on it, um, and then you just continue to get busted.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_05: What what was the difference for you in prison versus CYA?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_05: Did it feel like there was much?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_05: You you alluded to being killed in a fight.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, did you have some close calls?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_05: Were you ever suicidal?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_05: No, never suicidal.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: Never suicidal.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh YA is actually worse than prison because you got a bunch of youngsters trying to make a name for themselves, and the the the politics are different.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: So YA was like way more.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we fought all the time.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: We fought in Y just to fight, just to keep our skills up.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like we YA was way different.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: Prison's more like you gotta ask permission to do everything.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: It is just organized, yeah.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so I don't know.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: I had that YA mentality in my head already because you were surviving.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like that's what I you you you get programmed wherever you at, right?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: And like my mom would tell me, she's like, Man, I would pray for you to get locked up because I know that you can survive in there, like you, you know, and you're safe.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I know many times parents, yeah.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, mom, how could you do that to me?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_05: Pray for me to get locked up.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yes, yes.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_05: I've had so many parents tell me that they were able to sleep at night when their kiddos got arrested because they knew they were safe.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_05: That was crazy, yeah.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_05: And I know a lot of kiddos that uh uh you know, my youngest was a nine-year-old who had been abused in her family home with and would purposely get arrested to go to juvenile hall just to have a safe place to stay.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_05: Because no one's abusing her there and she had her own place.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_05: And you know how to you know how to survive.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_05: You know, was there ever that temptation to just stay locked up?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: No, you always wanted your freedom.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Hated it.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: I knew how to survive, but I hated it.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I hated it.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I would work out, I would program, I knew what I had to do, and I knew it was a part of the lifestyle, but like I hated it.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna lie, I hated it, but I didn't hate it enough to change my life.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I just it was a consequence, you know.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then the last I did two years in county and like I was high the whole time.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, after a while, I wasn't even getting healthy when I went to jail.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was just managing time, yeah.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: I was just continuing whatever I was doing.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_05: And so, what was your turning point, Dennis?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_05: What was the thing?
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: So when I met my wife that I'm married to now, we had this son, and we were both addicts at the time.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so I got out of Modesto and I came up to Tulare County to just I don't know, just for something different.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_05: Did you have family here?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my mom and everybody was here.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was pretty much the only one left in Modesto.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like my sisters and my cousins, and like everybody lived up in Tularia County.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_05: Was your mom going to a Pentecostal apostolic church?
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_05: Nope.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_05: She was going to a Baptist church.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, very conservative.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: She started going to a Pentecostal church after I.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, all right.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: She felt that Holy Ghost.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: Once you feel that, you can't go back to the city.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's under.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: But no, she she was like, she she knew God, but like she didn't know the Holy Ghost until she started going, you know, later on.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: But like my whole family lived up here, and so I needed just a change because, like, the longer you're in the dope game and the longer you're in that lifestyle, the uglier the people just get.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's no real loyalty, there's no real friends, there's no real like your homeboys try to sleep with your girl when you get locked up, they steal your stuff.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_05: Like, it's just yeah, everyone's out for everybody.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_05: Everybody, yeah, themselves.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I don't like, and it's just no matter what I did, I could never get ahead or get, you know, where I wanted to be.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was always a struggle, it was always a it was always a hustle.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was always I was just tired of it.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: I was tired of the people mostly, and like I shot dope in my veins for so long, like I couldn't even find no veins.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I blew all my veins out.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: So like I would be in the bathrooms for hours trying to get high, and I was just like, it was getting old.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it was getting old.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, what, 36 at the time, and already been using for 25 years, and like already had like 16 years in prison.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was just it was old.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_05: Somewhere along the line, though, because you you talked about just getting back to your lifestyle, just living one day at a time, just living each day as it came.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_05: Somewhere along the line, you caught a vision for something different.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, or at least a desire for I always had like that vision in my head, and people would ask me, and I was like, and I always said, when I want to change, I can.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: But like the reality was like, Dennis, you're like 36 years old.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you've never really had a job in your life.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: All you've known was drugs and crime and prison, and like, can you really?
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_05: And like, so you're beginning to question your yourself, that invincible feeling that you're like, I was hitting rock bottoms like that I've never hit before.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was like I I could always like hustle my way out or or do something and like get ahead and be okay, like where I felt like, but like I was hitting rock bottoms where I was like, man, like is this ever gonna change?
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is this like is this is this getting worse?
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: The people are getting worse.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like I and I I kind of and just even leaving Modesto and coming up to Tularic County, it was kind of like a step in that direction, I think, where I was just like, I need something else, I need something better, something different, because like I'm like tired.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like uh I'm people say they're tired, but like I was like, it was old.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I think the the biggest part was the people.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was just so tired of the people, and I was one of them people.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not I wasn't no better than anybody else.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I did scandeless stuff to people, like I was just the dirt bag as anybody else, you know?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not better than nobody, none of them.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying I was.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was just tired.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was tired.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was tired of being that way, I was tired of being around that.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was I was just tired of it.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so we we came up to Tillary, and like I was still you we were staying with my cousin, and Danielle, my wife, she's different.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: She grew up different than me.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I grew up living in the shed, like poor, you know what I mean, hustling like that.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like she grew up different, like she had money, like her family had money.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: She's from Ireland, she came over, like she grew up in gated communities, and like, you know, and she when she met me, I was like, What?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: I thought she was lying about her whole history.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because, like, what are you doing around me if you grew up like this?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then we ended up going to her dad's, and like they had this huge house and Elk Grove, gated community, all this.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, What?
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: This is real, yeah, you know, and so she she was using that the time, but like she grew up different than me, and so like her attitude toward things was a little different, and so like she had something to return to her roots, yeah.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like she like I had all that I knew, you know what I mean?
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like when she met me, I was living in the shed selling drugs, like this is who I am, yeah.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this is what you get, this is who I am, and like I think when we went to her parents' house and we were in Elk Grove, I was like, dang, like this is a whole different life.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: I've never experienced nothing like this.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: And like her dad got me a uh a job interview at like Audi, and like I could see a real kind of like different future there, you know.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: But like possibilities, yeah.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I ended up I kept getting high, and so like I just threw the whole opportunity away, you know what I mean?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: And like her dad ended up kicking us out, which I don't blame him, right?
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so we ended up in Teleria, my cousins, and ruined that whole opportunity.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like they kicked us out, like everybody, everywhere we went.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: So we ended up in a motel, and like we were using, and our son at the time was crawling, like he just started, he was crawling everywhere.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he ingested some methamphetamine, and we didn't know what happened to him, and he was just acting all weird and crazy.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: So we called the ambulance.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: The ambulance came, took him to the hospital.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: They started doing all the tests, found out what it was.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: Cops showed up and I bounced.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'm not going to jail for this, I already know.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, um so I bounced, but my wife stayed.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: We weren't married at the time, but my wife stayed, and started do the CPS took our son, she started doing the program, started getting clean.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I was I went back to Modesto, I was there for like two months, and I called one time and she's like, hey, if you don't come, they're gonna take your they're gonna take your rights for good.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't know what it was.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: Something in me was just like, I I just I gotta do it.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: I can't, you know, like I didn't even know what I was doing.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: I was just like, I gotta show up.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I showed up two hours late, hi, fotta showed up.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it was weird because I showed up and she got arrested.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I'm already here, you know what I mean?
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I I'm gonna I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I ended up getting her, she ended up getting out of jail.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: I ended up getting arrested.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that in itself was God's hand on me, too, because I got arrested for child endangerment, which she got arrested for.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: CPS took the kid.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was in there for like, I don't know, 10 days, and I was like, if you got a record, they don't kick, they don't OR you, right?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: So the judge, the my my public pretender or public defender came back and said, Hey, uh, they can't find a record for you.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna kick you out today on they're gonna OR you, they're gonna let you out today.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, no way.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: How could they not find a record on me?
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I got 16 years of prison term, like, there's no way.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: But they couldn't find a record.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_06: Wow.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: So they kicked me out, and that's when I got into the CPS program.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I've been clean for 10 days.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna just go out.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna, we're gonna, I'm gonna do this pro what my mindset at the time was I'm gonna do this program because I'm not gonna lose this.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna just let CPS take my kid.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then when we're done, I'll go back tomorrow lifestyle.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: But for now, I'm gonna do this.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so CPS is hard.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: You can't fake it.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like you call in every day to drug tests, like you can't fake it.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's funny at the time, I like I studied with Jehovah's Witnesses for a while.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_05: And so I told my wife, I was like, Study to see what their religion was like, you mean?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_05: Or I was buying into it.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was buying into it because like they would come see me when I was in jail, and like they're all about the missionary.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: They were nice people, I'm not gonna lie.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I they were like, and so I told my wife, check it out.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm gonna we'll check out the jobs when things she's all well.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, when I was in the program, I went to this one church and like I want you to check it out, right?
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, All right, we'll check it out, right?
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that was Pastor Josh's church, the Harvest Center, which was Apostolic Pentecostal, right?
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_02: I've never been to no church like that.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I always was this the one in Lindsay?
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: This was in Lindsay.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: They had a little one in Lindsay, and so it was weird because when we went, I felt it just felt different.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: When Pastor Josh was preaching, like it was so powerful.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like I heard preachers before, and like I'm good at reading people.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's all you when you're in prison, you read people, right?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you're in the dope game, you read people because like somebody's always out to get something from you, right?
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I'm reading, I'm reading this guy because like what he's saying is like it feels powerful, it feels different, it feels like and I real, real, real, yeah, and like I'm tired of fake, so I'm looking for something real, right?
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_02: And like I kept going, I kept going, and then a couple of the elders, uh, brother monks and sister monks, like they're like, Hey, you want to do a Bible study?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I know a lot about the Bible, we'll do a Bible study, right?
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so they started teaching me about this Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues, and they showed me all the scripture, they showed me everything, you know what I mean?
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, had you read any of that before?
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because you I read about the Holy Ghost, but like I for some reason I don't know if I like missed that part or like I didn't, you know what I mean?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's like maybe just the scales fall off at a stuff.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: God reveals stuff to you when you're ready for it, right?
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I was I guess I was ready for it, you know what I mean?
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I kept looking for flaws, I kept looking for why are these people being so nice to me?
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: Why are these people you know what I mean?
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: And like looking for a motive.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: I was looking for it because like people aren't like that in the world in in the world I grew up in.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right, people don't love you for no reason.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: They they like they were just loving on us and like I was rough, like they told me stories where they picked me up and they were scared because I was in the back of their car and like they didn't know, like, you know what I mean?
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that myself in my mind, you know what I mean?
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: But like they just they didn't care, they didn't care where I came from, they didn't care, like they just were loving me and like I needed that.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we all needed that.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: I needed that.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: I needed that.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I needed something real in my life.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: I needed something different, like God.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_03: God brought me to a place where I could grow and change.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: And like He could build me up.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like And it was It was, you know, God brings you the pastor that you need in your life for me.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: And like I needed.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: I needed Pastor Josh.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like I needed his family.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: I needed like his his mom and dad, like the most loving people I ever met.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like Sister Nina, like, but he brought all these people and like they just kept loving us and kept helping us.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then like when I finally got the Holy Ghost, I was like, it blew my mind because I thought I knew everything else about the Bible.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I knew this.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I knew that.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: And like for the first time, like I saw God.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like I felt God like He talked to me.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was like it was a whole nother level than I could ever even explain.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_03: And like once I felt that I was like, dude, this is real.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is legit.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is this is what I've been looking for in my life.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: And like I couldn't stop.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to stop.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I I I wouldn't miss a service.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I needed that all the time.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I like dove headlong into it.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: And like Pastor Josh and like they just they built us up.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like there was a bunch of us that all came in at the at the same time.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like none of us grew up in Pentecost.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: None of us grew up in in church.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like we didn't know anything about that.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: We just knew this love that we were getting from from God and from these people.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_02: And like we needed it.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it like it changed my life.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_02: And like we were doing all the CPS stuff and we ended up getting our son back.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I got a job.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was just cutting lawns, but I got a job.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like we got a house.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like God just kept blessing us.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: We bought a car, like, and that was just the beginning.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then like Pastor Josh was like wanted us to be a part of his leadership.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_06: And I was like, it was because when it when it's real and it's it's real, you know, it it is a real true change.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_06: You can't deny it.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: And like I I couldn't even imagine a life like that.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was living it.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: And like my wife, me and my wife at the same time, she got the Holy Ghost.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_02: I got the Holy Ghost.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and then we got our son back.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like we were all in, you know, and and she put up with a lot of stuff for me and she stayed by my side.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm gonna get like my wife's like, you better say you got a good wife when you go in there.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_05: I do have I have a Yeah, it's really amazing that you guys were in addiction together and got clean together and got the Holy Ghost together and are serving God together.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_05: Like, we don't get to hear those stories a lot.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_05: It it is God, it's just God.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I didn't even know, we didn't even really know each other.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_02: We knew who we were when we were addicts, but like she didn't know if I was gonna be a good dad.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like she didn't know anything, you know what I mean?
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like she like and I I don't blame her.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like God just keeps He just keeps going.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: He says, as long as you're as you're all in and you're obedient to the word, like and your heart is open and you want to be used, like I'm gonna use you.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_02: And like he just he keeps using us, like he keeps, and sometimes I'm like, God, like I'm so grateful.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm so grateful.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't that's why any opportunity that I get to try to help somebody else or try to share my story or try to, you know, I gotta do it.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then we found out about the life recovery stuff, and I was like, dude, this is like this is what God wants me to do, like to help other addicts, other people that are are coming off drugs that are fit, like it says, you know, God broke it down real easy.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: He says you gotta love love your God with all your heart, mind, body, and soul, and then love your neighbor as yourself.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like to love your neighbor as yourself, like how can I not do everything in my power to try to help somebody get clean and try to like it doesn't matter who they are, like you you have to because God didn't save me for me.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like I told you I didn't realize it's not me, like it it it's yeah, it's for my kids.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's like I got I got three kids now.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like we got a wow, yeah, like we got an eight-year-old chance who we got back, he's he's gonna be 10 next month.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_02: But we got an eight-year-old DJ, little Dennis, and we have a one-year-old Liam, which was unexpected, all three boys, and then I have an older son that lives in Louisiana, but like our we got a family now, like for real.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_02: Atmosphere Pentecostal family.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like my kids are growing up to going to church.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we go my kids already know Wednesday, we're in church.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sunday, first service, second service, we're in church.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Tuesday, dad's teaching class, like outreach, we're there, like right.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_02: They know, yeah, you know, and and it's I baptized both my kids already.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, they got the Holy Ghost.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_07: Wow, pretty much speaking in tongues.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's wonderful.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_02: They're living a life like that you never had a chance to that I never had a chance to, yeah, that I couldn't even imagine living.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can't even imagine this kind of life, to be honest.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like every day it's like you couldn't have dreamed it.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, you couldn't do it.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's better than what I could have ever dreamed of.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's how God is.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's how God is, like He's better than you can even imagine.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_05: And it's so um, I feel so frustrating sometimes to not be able to give that to people because I think if you if we could only just give what we know God has done for us, you know, and the love he has for people.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_05: And I think the only way we really can do that is by our testimony and by a living witness by the love that we give to others, you know.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_05: But sometimes you just want to shake people.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_05: I know lots of people in addiction that you know, I can see stumbling blocks and and all the things that keep them from coming to the old me wants to like snatch people up sometimes and like beat Jesus into them, but like God's like, you gotta love them into me, you know.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I I've learned that, you know, and I I just it is frustrating because I some people I just like if they could just grasp it, if they could just get it, right?
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like your life is gonna be right amazing, right?
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_02: And like and words just don't do it, just like I yeah, I can't even put into words how how blessed I am.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like with I just I can't imagine my life ever again without God.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: It just I I can't without my church family, without my pastor, with like I just right, it's truly family, dude.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_05: It's like family, yeah.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, the Treadways, I don't know them well.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, but what I know of them because they've been at our church, I got to be around Sister Treadway at the women's retreat, and um, they they're very special people.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_05: You can tell they're just real, and I think that is refreshing.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_05: It is, it's very refreshing.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_02: That was the main draw.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_02: They're real, yeah.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_05: Because because people like they're not trying to who haven't like me, I've been in the world for a while, and you know the difference, you can recognize it.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_02: And they didn't, they weren't like pushing uh dress, change, try to trade.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't push me to shave, they didn't push me to to do nothing.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, God doesn't God did that.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I decided to shave on my own, like I decided to to stop wearing short, like all these things.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't pushed on me, they don't push none of that.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_02: They're just God's gonna do that for you.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's how my pastor is, yeah.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's like because he does it.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_05: That's how it should be.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_05: He does, he does do it.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, God did it.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_05: The first thing he changed with me was music, you know, like nothing else, just the music.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it was one of the very first things.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_05: Nobody knows that's not an outward thing.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_05: No, but it made a huge difference for me back back then.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_05: So, how long has it been now for you?
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh 2017, so almost eight years.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_05: Never looked back.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_05: How did you do with and so your mom came into this church with you?
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_05: She did.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_02: So uh it was weird because when my my wife started coming, and then I started coming, like all my family started seeing like the changes in me, and they're like, what is going on?
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_05: Like, this is different, yeah, undeniable.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like this is something.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so my mom started coming, my older sister started coming, her husband started coming, my niece, my nephews, like wow, my sister and her husband are part of leadership now, my niece and nephew are part of leadership now.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_05: Like, praise God, look at that.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_02: There was like an influx of like 30 or 40 people that just like, and it like now most of my family down here is in the church.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, and it's like Did your wife get the Holy Ghost first?
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_02: She did, yeah.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_02: She so she when she was in that, she was in that she was in a program and I was still off using, and like uh brother monks would go and pick up some of the girls from the program and bring her to church.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they my wife went with uh he's a friend of ours now, he's in the church now too, but his wife was in the program and they both went.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And the first day my wife went in, she got the Holy Ghost.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_02: First day.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_08: Wow, got the Holy Ghost.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Never been like she grew up Catholic because she grew up in Ireland, half in Ireland, half here, and like never.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_02: She got the Holy Ghost, and then she went to jail like two weeks later.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, like the church was like, What happened to her?
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I was and she kept telling me about her church and telling me about this, and I was like, What are you talking about?
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you mean?
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_02: What pastor?
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_02: You got what do you mean you got a pastor?
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean a holy ghost?
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, she was telling me about this stuff, and I was like, just not buying it, right?
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_02: And but she did, she got it first, then she ended up going to jail, and then she got out, and then I ended up coming down, and then she was like, She brought us back to that same church, and it was like, so this this is this story is gonna blow your mind.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_02: It blew my mind because I didn't even know it happened until like years later.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_02: So me and my wife came down, we were still using, we were staying on my cousin Barbara's, we were using and doing all this when my cousin Barbara, way before we even went to church or anything, went to the treadways church.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Pastor was talking about getting stuff and people out of your life and out of your home that are chaos.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_02: My sis, my cousin Barbara comes home, kicks us out of the house, which started the whole cycle of the whole cycle.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_02: If she wouldn't have kicked us out, we wouldn't end up in the motel, they wouldn't have took our kid, we wouldn't end it back.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_02: So her going to the Treadway church before years before we went, and then we go first full circle and end up right back in the same church that the pastor told us to kick us out.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, because that was so chaotic.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_05: But that I mean, you really can look back over your life and see how God was weaving it all together.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Everything, everything God was like.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_02: I used to, I used to wonder, like, why do I get locked up all the time?
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not stupid, but like I get busted all the time.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_02: But it wasn't me, it was God putting me in a place to keep me safe or get my attention or keep, you know what I mean?
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was God loving on me and directing my path before I even knew where I was going.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so looking back now, I can see, okay, God saved me from getting shot.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_02: God's, you know, like I got shot at and I shoot, like I was from here to that wall, and this guy shot at me coming down the steps.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's close, like three times and missed.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_05: Like, yeah, you don't miss that close.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's not right, you know what I mean?
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And looking back now, I'm like, back then I thought, well, I'm invincible.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, but it was God protecting me back then from myself.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_02: He was he was loving me when I didn't even know how to love myself, right?
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's yeah, that's so awesome.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so awesome.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_02: And like now I just want I just want people to grasp it, just to get it, just to love.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, dude, like I went to Mongolia on a on a crusades trip this year.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I've been to Ireland, like this guy that's Wow, who would have thought this guy that's done six years in prison, like now uh uh I'm uh I'm a union electrician.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I have a career.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_05: I have like wow, praise God.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_05: Like God, like just and and and your your record never got in the way of any of that.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_02: None of it.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_05: It just it's I know God can do miracles.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_02: God takes a a a mess and he turns it in a miracle, like he turns trash into a treasure, like God, like He don't care.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_02: He don't care if you got a record, like He don't care.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_05: I think He delights in in doing the impossible because it does look impossible to us, and but it's not impossible for God.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_05: It's not impossible, and it and that's such a cliche, right?
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_05: We hear that all the time, but it's it it is real for me.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_02: It is impossible, right?
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's no way I created it, right?
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_02: But with God, He's like, I got you.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_05: I I know I think that with myself, like every part of my life is a mirror.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_05: There's no way, no way, no way, no way I should be able to sit in a chair and help somebody and give them advice or direction or counsel, you know, there's no way I should be able to do that.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_05: But I hear my story show up all the time in my office, and I just think, you know, God, God has worked it all together and not because of me, but because of him.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_05: And I I get to then tell others, you know, what worked for me.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_05: And so um I I he's good.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_05: So good.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_05: He's he's really good.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_05: Did you uh ever reconcile with your dad?
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh me and my dad have a good relationship now.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he lives up in the mountains still up in the same kind of area, but like I go and see him all the time.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's he's not alcoholic no more, like we got a good relationship now.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_02: It took a long time, but we we have a and you know he he this kind of shocked me too at the time, but like when I was in after I got busted and I was in juvenile fight in my case, he came to see me and like he revealed to me that he wasn't even my dad.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_02: That like he's raised me since my mom was like five months pregnant with me, so like my whole life.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it kind of like blew my mind at first, but it it it gave me so much more respect for him because like like you took all this mess on, and like I'm not even your blood kid.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_02: But he did his best, yeah, you know, he did all that he could, you know, and so he ain't perfect.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm not perfect, you know, but yeah, he's he's serving God, he loves God, he's has a relationship with God now, you know, and so we have a good relationship, and so my my kids get you know, they get to stay their their papa, and you know, it's yeah, good.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it too it took a while, but uh everything takes a while.
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_02: It does, you know, need a healing.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_05: God re heals everything, He does, and and healing is progressive, it's not instant, you know, and I think people I think people are starting to know that now more.
• 1:17:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's what it's you know, I I I tell people like when they come into the program of like I'll tell them how old are you?
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm 35.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_02: How long have you been an addict?
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, 15 years.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, so it took you 35 years to become the person that that you are now.
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's gonna take a little while to to relearn, to reteach yourself, to to you know what I mean?
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we have to have grace, have grace, like you it took you 35 years to get to this person, like right, it's gonna take a little while to to you know, relearn the way that God, because we don't know the way that God wants us to to live.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_02: We know the way that we've been taught.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so it takes a little while to learn, you know, first and foremost, first and foremost, who God is, right?
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_02: How he loves, how he, you know what I mean?
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then you begin to make the changes in in your own life.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it it takes a while, you know, and God's okay with that.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, he is.
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_05: Every there's no mistakes, everything is very intentional with God, every moment in time is very intentional with God, I believe.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I tell people like you're sitting in this class right now, or you're sitting in the church, like this is what God knew you were gonna be here when you were ready, when your testimony, you know, it's it's everybody's got their own story, their own testimony, their own walk.
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_07: They do, yeah.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_02: And God knows your steps, he knows the direction you're gonna take, he knows all the decisions that you made, like he still loves you, right?
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, despite your flaws, despite your past, like yeah, despite all that, like he loves you.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And like I love all the all the the living word, the Bible, like there's so many powerful stories about imperfect people doing miraculous things because because of God, right?
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_05: You know, yeah it's so what brought you to Mongolia and and how what did you walk away from that experience with?
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so two years ago, I think it was two years ago, brother Robinette came.
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_02: And okay.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_02: Preached and talked and got my pastor and his wife on board about doing missions.
• 1:20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they went to El Salvador the year before, but I couldn't go because my wife was like ready to pop.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I like I couldn't go.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_02: But they came back with all these stories about thousands of people getting the hold.
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_02: All that like I was like, I want to go.
• 1:20:26
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 1:20:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then the very next year we had our baby already like that.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so they started planning, you know, the next trip was to Mongolia.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I want to go.
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I want to go.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_02: But like I didn't have the money to go.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was like, we, you know, we sell stuff, we'll do fundraisers, this or that.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_02: But I still didn't have the money for the plane ticket.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I told God, I said, Because Mongolia is in Africa, right?
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's right.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
• 1:20:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's right in the middle of China and Russia.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, Mongolia.
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, sorry.
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right in the middle.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_05: It's I don't know why I was thinking Africa.
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_05: I think I was thinking Mogadishu.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, Mongolia's like right in the middle.
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so I like I told God, I was like, God, like, you know I want to go, but if you want me to go, like, you need to make a way.
• 1:21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Not even, not even 12 hours later, Pastor calls me up.
• 1:21:21
  SPEAKER_02: He's all you're not gonna believe this.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, what?
• 1:21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody just bought your plane ticket.
• 1:21:25
  SPEAKER_06: Wow.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_06: Wow, praise the Lord.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's how God works.
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody just bought your plane ticket.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you could go.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_02: All right, God, I guess you want me to go.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we went over there.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know what to expect, and it was like they had church up in the tents, up in the mountain.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's a whole different people, but they're still got the love of Jesus.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter where they are or how bad they got it, or you know, like, and it was just like I was like, I'm in another country, like preaching to these people about Jesus, and it's the greatest, one of the greatest experiences I I've ever had in my life.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like being able to go to another country where they don't even speak the same language, but like they know Jesus.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's we got that same yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it ain't not, it's just they're loving on us, we're loving on them.
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're up in the mountains, way back in the middle of nowhere in this little tent, having church, yeah, you know, yeah, and like doing God's work, yeah.
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it was it was it was humbling and it was like God was just showing me, dude, like I can take you anywhere.
• 1:22:55
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_05: So that's where I wanted to go.
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_05: So where do you feel like God is calling you?
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_05: What do you what do you feel like God is I don't know.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:23:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_05: Like Do you preach now?
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_05: Are you content in the um ministry of the recovery piece?
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_05: Is is that your burden?
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_05: Is that your heartbeat, or do you feel like there's more you want to I think God has more in store for me.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what yet, but I I'm just I just continue to be open to whatever He wants to do.
• 1:23:35
  SPEAKER_05: I know this is a podcast, and you probably don't want to say, but you know, um but when you have God in such a real tangible way, like you just want to shout it from the mountaintops, you know, it it's it's it is like that fire shut up in your bones, like the scripture says.
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_05: And so it'd be a very natural thing for you to want to preach, to want, you know, to be a missionary or to go where souls are.
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I mean at the same time, I mean, if if God really wanted me to do that, uh I'm with it.
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_02: But like I've seen I've been a part of our church grow from like nothing, you know, like a little 20, 30, 40 to like almost 200 in service.
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_05: Like I've you guys are taking off, I think.
• 1:24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like God is moving and like like so you're enjoying that.
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's my family, yeah.
• 1:24:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like yeah, like I told Pastor, like I I'm with you, like whatever, whatever you need, whatever you need me to do, yeah, I'm doing it.
• 1:24:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you know, so you're there for the to build the church, the local church, whatever God wants you to do, like yeah, like well, he puts desires in our heart.
• 1:24:53
  SPEAKER_05: That's why I was curious if you know, if you're because it is so exciting to see your church grow, you know.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_05: But I didn't know after you go overseas, you know, that ignites a whole different level of it it exposes you to different parts, you know.
• 1:25:12
  SPEAKER_05: So I was just curious, you know, you don't have to answer.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, no, I was just curious because your story is not for nothing.
• 1:25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it's I like I said, I got to tell my testimony in Mongolia.
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, what at first I was like, what are these people?
• 1:25:27
  SPEAKER_02: How are they gonna relate?
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_02: But like there's addicts over there too.
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's alcoholics over there too.
• 1:25:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's like all these people, and like I don't know, whatever God wants, I'm with it.
• 1:25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Just like this opportunity came up.
• 1:25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, if this is what you want me to do, God, like I just want to tell my story.
• 1:25:45
  SPEAKER_02: I wanna, I want to be obedient to God.
• 1:25:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I wanna I wanna save souls, I want to just love on people.
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_02: I want to like now when I'm at church, just watching somebody get the Holy Ghost or get baptized, like that's like that's everything.
• 1:26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is.
• 1:26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, I know what they're feeling.
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_02: I know what they're feeling, I know where God can take you.
• 1:26:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:26:07
  SPEAKER_05: And it's just to see them change a lot.
• 1:26:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's just the beginning.
• 1:26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Them getting that, it's just the beginning.
• 1:26:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's just learning how to to to pull them in, to get them going, to bring them into the family, to bring them into the the body of Christ, to like love on them, to to help them grow.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just want to see it, I want to be a part of it.
• 1:26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if God wants me to preach somewhere, do something, whatever, like I'm with it.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_02: What whatever you want me to do, God, yeah, like I I'm fine with that.
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like you've already brought me so much farther than I ever thought I was gonna be.
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_02: If if you want to take me somewhere or do something like I'm with it.
• 1:26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you trust him.
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_02: I trust him.
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's I mean, that's that's first and foremost with any relationship with with God, right?
• 1:26:56
  SPEAKER_05: Is it's and for someone like you, that doesn't come easy, it doesn't, you know, and yeah, it's so when when you learn to cross that bridge of trust and you know that you know that you know you can trust him, then yeah, it's easy to say yes.
• 1:27:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, because you try, you know.
• 1:27:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like like with with Pastor, like I trust Pastor with whatever.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, you know what I mean?
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like it took a while to learn how to submit and to do all these things because as a man, you have to learn how to do all these things, but like I trust him with with my whole heart.
• 1:27:35
  SPEAKER_05: And I think you said that because I believe whether it's in marriage or with your pastor or or any relationship, submission can only come through love.
• 1:27:49
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
• 1:27:50
  SPEAKER_05: Obligation doesn't work.
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_05: If you're going to church from doing all the rules and being obligated, it doesn't last.
• 1:27:57
  SPEAKER_05: And submitting to your spouse or submitting to your pastor if it's not from a place of love doesn't work, you know, and so it works.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_05: You're able to do it because you you felt their love for you.
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_05: I did, yeah, and it was like it's and that's such a beautiful thing.
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_05: It is because I mean, I think on lots of levels, Dennis, for one that you um would allow it and and not push him away, and not resist, and not be prideful, that would have been easy.
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah, you know, but but yeah, I think it's just the love of God, but it's really beautiful.
• 1:28:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think God like you said, it comes with trust.
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Learning how to trust, trust him, you know what I mean, and and his will for your life, you know, and and all the all the things that that come in store for that, you know.
• 1:29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I I tell everybody, I was like, To love somebody, you gotta trust them.
• 1:29:12
  SPEAKER_02: To trust somebody, you gotta get to know who they are, yeah, and what he's about, and what you know I mean, and that's that's what Jesus is about.
• 1:29:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, to to love.
• 1:29:22
  SPEAKER_02: He wants the best for us.
• 1:29:23
  SPEAKER_02: He wants he wants our cup overflowing, like he wants to be.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_02: He's the prince of peace.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_02: He's that, you know, he's and once you feel that, like, I I I had to hold on to it with with everything I had.
• 1:29:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I had to, I had to, because like it's just like you know, that parable of the guy of the guy who finds the the the diamond in the field, you know.
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_02: He don't just he he goes back and buys the whole field, you know, right?
• 1:29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's that's how much God's love is like is worth to me, you know, and like I gotta hold on to it every day, all the time.
• 1:30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, you know, God, I tell you every day, just keep me humble and just remind me every day of what you done and where you brought me from.
• 1:30:14
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, as long as you're doing that, like I'm feeling good.
• 1:30:19
  SPEAKER_05: Tell um tell the listeners out there about your ministry at the harvest center, um, your life recovery.
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um, tell them about that, what it does, who it's for, who can come, what time, all of that.
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I teach a life recovery class at the Harvest Center in Strathmore, California.
• 1:30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Every Tuesday, 630, just just about every Tuesday at 630.
• 1:30:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's a class for recovering addicts for those that are struggling with addiction at the time.
• 1:30:54
  SPEAKER_02: They don't even gotta be recovering.
• 1:30:55
  SPEAKER_02: If if if you're active addiction and you can make it in there, make it in there.
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter.
• 1:31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you're if you're a family member of of an addict, if if you're any kind of things, any kind of hold or or bondage or uh a prison, anything that's holding you down, like it's just a place, it's a safe place where you can start to work on some of the things that have been hindering your life, right?
• 1:31:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's called life recovery.
• 1:31:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we can try to bring your recovery the life that God had in store for us.
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 1:31:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not it's not in a it's not a like it's it's not celebrate recovery.
• 1:31:35
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's not celebrate recovery, it's it's it's Jesus.
• 1:31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, because I know what saved me, I know what helped me break my addiction.
• 1:31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm no longer an addict.
• 1:31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:31:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:31:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm a child, I'm a new creature, right?
• 1:31:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a child of God.
• 1:31:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:31:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:31:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I know what worked for me, and I know what could work for you.
• 1:31:58
  SPEAKER_02: If you could just get in there and give it a shot, like if you need something different, if if if because I know a lot of these things they don't work, they don't work because the true thing that you're missing in life, right?
• 1:32:10
  SPEAKER_02: The thing that you're trying to chase and cover up and feel, it's Jesus.
• 1:32:15
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of the times we don't know that.
• 1:32:17
  SPEAKER_02: We're just filling a void and we're always we're getting a high and we're doing all these things because we're seeking and we're missing something, and you know, maybe it's trauma, maybe it's it's hurt, maybe it's a bad childhood, maybe whatever it may be, maybe it's just something we've always known.
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because God left a hole for everybody, yeah.
• 1:32:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:32:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's how I tell people like God created us to be in a relationship with Him.
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_02: And if we're not in a relationship with God, then we're doing something we weren't created to do.
• 1:32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:32:49
  SPEAKER_05: And we will never be content in that until we are in alignment with God.
• 1:32:54
  SPEAKER_02: You'll never be right at peace because you're doing something real.
• 1:32:58
  SPEAKER_02: We're not created to do.
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like throwing a truck into the ocean.
• 1:33:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's gonna sink because it wasn't created to be a boat.
• 1:33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:33:06
  SPEAKER_02: And we weren't created to be out of relationship with God.
• 1:33:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so our lives are gonna be off track.
• 1:33:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's gonna be something missing.
• 1:33:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's gonna be, and so to get back, to recover that life that God had in store for us, we got to get back to Him.
• 1:33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we got to get at that altar.
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_02: We got to get, you know, and the class just helps, it gives you a safe place to grow in God, to work on, you know, it's non-judgmental.
• 1:33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're all addicts, like everyone has a past.
• 1:33:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I teach the class, and like you can look at my past and be like, dude, this guy, you know, yeah.
• 1:33:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it everybody there, it's it's it's like that.
• 1:33:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's for them.
• 1:33:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's just we're all growing, we're all coming out of the world, we're all growing, and we're trying to to to get where God wants us to be.
• 1:33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 1:33:53
  SPEAKER_05: And I just in relationship with I love it.
• 1:33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I I love it because it works.
• 1:33:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, God works, like He can overcome any kind of addiction, meth addiction, heroin addiction, fentanyl addiction, like anything, anything, anything, nothing, nothing is too big for God, nothing is impossible for God, nothing is like there's no mountain too big, there's no addiction to it doesn't you could be in an addict for 30, 40 years, whatever.
• 1:34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:34:21
  SPEAKER_02: God says, I don't care, right?
• 1:34:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'll break you that right now, right?
• 1:34:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'll give you greater than any high that the Holy Ghost, right?
• 1:34:30
  SPEAKER_02: Talk about getting high.
• 1:34:31
  SPEAKER_02: You want to get high, you want to feel high?
• 1:34:32
  SPEAKER_02: The Holy Ghost is greater than any high you can ever imagine.
• 1:34:36
  SPEAKER_05: Because if it wasn't, you wouldn't be doing it.
• 1:34:39
  SPEAKER_02: No, yeah, and God knew it would be, right?
• 1:34:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:34:43
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, dude, I got I got something good for you, right?
• 1:34:47
  SPEAKER_01: I got something good for you.
• 1:34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so it's just if you get a chance, check it out.
• 1:34:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:34:54
  SPEAKER_02: It it you know, that's what I tell people.
• 1:34:57
  SPEAKER_02: If if you could just get it, sometimes it's just getting in the door, get in the door and let God, you know, God do the rest.
• 1:35:04
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, and tell that tell the audience about the crusade on January 25th, January 25th at Menachie High School in Porterville, Porterville, California, six o'clock, be there.
• 1:35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, brother uh Charles Robinet, I don't know if you know him, but he wrote the book uh Radically Apostolic, fire, on fire for God.
• 1:35:25
  SPEAKER_02: On fire.
• 1:35:26
  SPEAKER_02: On fire.
• 1:35:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you're facing any kind of uh uh anything in your body, if you need a healing, if you need deliverance from anything, if you're fighting any kind of addiction, I don't care what you need.
• 1:35:38
  SPEAKER_02: If if you just get there, God's gonna give it to you.
• 1:35:41
  SPEAKER_02: I promise.
• 1:35:42
  SPEAKER_02: Be there.
• 1:35:43
  SPEAKER_02: God's gonna be there.
• 1:35:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's gonna be healings, there's gonna be Holy Ghost, there's gonna be a baptismal setup.
• 1:35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever you need, if you just show up, I promise you it will be life-changing.
• 1:35:53
  SPEAKER_05: So Menachie High School, January 25th at 6 p.m.
• 1:35:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 1:35:58
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:35:59
  SPEAKER_05: So I always end with two questions.
• 1:36:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but you are not a backslider, you are a new convert.
• 1:36:06
  SPEAKER_05: I am.
• 1:36:07
  SPEAKER_05: So what would you say to somebody out there that stumbles across this that is either away from God, was a back, is a backslider, or someone that's just kind of pondering or what would you tell them?
• 1:36:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh give it a shot.
• 1:36:30
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 1:36:31
  SPEAKER_03: Give it a shot.
• 1:36:32
  SPEAKER_03: Test, yeah.
• 1:36:33
  SPEAKER_02: Give it a shot.
• 1:36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like the Bible says God's not gonna let you down.
• 1:36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:36:37
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, if you're pondering, if if you've if you're a backslider, you've known God.
• 1:36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right?
• 1:36:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, right, nothing out there is gonna be better.
• 1:36:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, nothing, right?
• 1:36:49
  SPEAKER_02: When God says in the Bible, I deliver you from something and I pull you out of that, and you go back, it's like a dog returning to its vomit, right?
• 1:36:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right, and not only that, you're not just fighting that one, that one spirit no more, you're fighting seven more spirits that he brings back to you, right?
• 1:37:06
  SPEAKER_02: Give it a shot.
• 1:37:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like God will not let you down.
• 1:37:09
  SPEAKER_02: I promise you.
• 1:37:11
  SPEAKER_05: He doesn't he will not let you down.
• 1:37:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's just in the Bible.
• 1:37:14
  SPEAKER_02: If you knock, he'll answer.
• 1:37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if you seek him, he will find.
• 1:37:18
  SPEAKER_02: And anything in this world, it's gonna lie to you, it's gonna bring you down, it's gonna cheat you, it's gonna hurt you, it's gonna backstab you, it's gonna do all this.
• 1:37:26
  SPEAKER_02: But God, God says, I'm gonna love you.
• 1:37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm gonna be there for you, I'm gonna pick you up.
• 1:37:32
  SPEAKER_02: Not only that, I died for you.
• 1:37:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I loved you when you hated me, I still loved you.
• 1:37:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:37:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like this everything that you've been looking for in this world, it's in Jesus.
• 1:37:42
  SPEAKER_05: It is in Jesus.
• 1:37:43
  SPEAKER_05: It's in Jesus.
• 1:37:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I love that.
• 1:37:45
  SPEAKER_05: It is in Jesus.
• 1:37:46
  SPEAKER_05: That's true.
• 1:37:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:37:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um, what would you say to the parent of the kiddo?
• 1:37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Don't give up.
• 1:37:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:37:53
  SPEAKER_02: Do not give up.
• 1:37:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care how long it's been, I don't care how much.
• 1:37:58
  SPEAKER_02: My mom prayed for me for 15 years, went to every jail institution, every prison, visited me.
• 1:38:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, she got on the abtrack and went four or five hours to come visit me in prison.
• 1:38:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and my mom's prayers got me through so much.
• 1:38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:38:21
  SPEAKER_02: So much.
• 1:38:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I know it's hard, and I I know you want to give up, and I know you want to be wash your hands of it, and I know you want to do all that, but maybe it's just your prayers that are keeping, you know what I mean?
• 1:38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's and one more day.
• 1:38:36
  SPEAKER_02: One more day.
• 1:38:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you never know when that day is gonna be the day that that kid walks to the doors, that that he that he's tired, that he just wants something to do, and he's gonna know where to go because mama or dad has been praying for him.
• 1:38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:38:49
  SPEAKER_02: He's gonna know where to go.
• 1:38:50
  SPEAKER_05: So don't stop so many times, don't stop, don't give up.
• 1:38:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's so important because your prayers are a covering over the children.
• 1:38:59
  SPEAKER_02: God hears your prayers because you have a relationship with them, and sometimes it's just your covering that's that's keeping them.
• 1:39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so keep on keeping it.
• 1:39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you never know.
• 1:39:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's it's always worth it.
• 1:39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's always worth it.
• 1:39:13
  SPEAKER_02: If it takes five, ten, fifteen years, whatever it takes, yeah, is your child's life worth that?
• 1:39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is.
• 1:39:20
  SPEAKER_05: Well, we we've seen one um one backslider whose parents both passed away before they got to see him come home, but he's home and and he's never had God the way he has God now.
• 1:39:34
  SPEAKER_05: Come on.
• 1:39:34
  SPEAKER_05: So it yeah, it it it is the prayers.
• 1:39:38
  SPEAKER_05: There's always somebody that's been praying when someone comes to the Lord.
• 1:39:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:39:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's the covering.
• 1:39:44
  SPEAKER_05: It is the covering, yeah.
• 1:39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because they don't have the covering themselves, right?
• 1:39:47
  SPEAKER_02: They're not in that relationship.
• 1:39:49
  SPEAKER_02: They stepped out of that covering, right?
• 1:39:51
  SPEAKER_02: But mama's covering, dad is covering.
• 1:39:54
  SPEAKER_02: Powerful.
• 1:39:55
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much, there's so much power in the prayer, in your mama's prayer.
• 1:40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like God God's got a heart for that.
• 1:40:04
  SPEAKER_02: He loves that.
• 1:40:04
  SPEAKER_02: He he you know what I mean?
• 1:40:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't want to see somebody you don't he ain't giving up.
• 1:40:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:40:09
  SPEAKER_02: He ain't giving up.
• 1:40:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:40:12
  SPEAKER_05: Well, Dennis, what a pleasure.
• 1:40:14
  SPEAKER_05: It's very nice to meet you.
• 1:40:16
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm so glad that the Lord found you or that you found him.
• 1:40:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 1:40:22
  SPEAKER_05: However that were.
• 1:40:23
  SPEAKER_05: I know God found you.
• 1:40:24
  SPEAKER_05: He had your he had your number, but um what a beautiful, what a beautiful testimony.
• 1:40:31
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 1:40:32
  SPEAKER_05: It's just all the glory to you.
• 1:40:33
  SPEAKER_05: I know, I know, I know, I know it is, but it is um it is really beautiful to see and feel.
• 1:40:43
  SPEAKER_05: I can feel the conviction in what you say.
• 1:40:45
  SPEAKER_05: I can feel the passion that you have.
• 1:40:48
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you love him.
• 1:40:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and it it's it's evident, and it's it's beautiful to witness.
• 1:40:55
  SPEAKER_05: I I love to see these kind of stories.
• 1:40:57
  SPEAKER_05: So very nice to meet you.
• 1:40:59
  SPEAKER_05: I'm very excited about you guys' church and everything that's going on there.
• 1:41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um I hope to see you on the 28th.
• 1:41:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm gonna put I I'll definitely be there.
• 1:41:07
  SPEAKER_05: I'll put it on my calendar.
• 1:41:08
  SPEAKER_05: I stumbled across Brother Robinette by accident, and I'm like, who is this?
• 1:41:13
  SPEAKER_05: He is just on fire.
• 1:41:14
  SPEAKER_05: On fire.
• 1:41:15
  SPEAKER_05: And so uh I'm looking forward to hearing him.
• 1:41:17
  SPEAKER_05: But um, you do have a wonderful pastor and and what and sister Treadway, you know.
• 1:41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so much love there, yeah.
• 1:41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Life-changing.
• 1:41:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:41:29
  SPEAKER_05: Well, God bless you and thank you for being here with us.
• 1:41:32
  SPEAKER_05: And anyone out there that's watching, um, if you identify with this testimony, please share it with somebody.
• 1:41:39
  SPEAKER_05: If you know anybody that's had um a similar life as uh Dennis, please share it with them.
• 1:41:46
  SPEAKER_05: And if you have a testimony to share, please email us, reach out to us.
• 1:41:50
  SPEAKER_05: We would love to hear from you.
• 1:41:52
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 1:41:53
  SPEAKER_05: Bye-bye.
• 1:41:54
  SPEAKER_00: We are so glad you joined us.
• 1:41:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you.
• 1:42:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible.
• 1:42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Visit our website at the Redeemed Backslider.org.
• 1:42:12
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you will tune in for our next episode.