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How We Can Better Serve The LGBTQ+ Community · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody, Sam Oaks here from the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want to tell you about this week's guest, Nicola Crosby from Moran Wealth Management.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about her career journey from starting out in administration so many years back to now running her own financial planning practice.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: She's chartered, she's also done the masters in wealth management.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I dig deep on that qualification just to see is it worth it?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: What did she learn?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about marketing and the part that's played in her business.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: She used to kind of poo-poo that really, but actually now she's a firm believer that marketing helps her generate new clients.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about diversity within the financial planning profession, but also diversity when it comes to clients.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about the LGBTQ plus community and the transgender need different services when it comes to financial planning.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Nicola, thank you so much for joining me this morning on the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good today.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: No problem at all.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: We've obviously met before.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: We met at Legal in General when you uh were a guest on their podcast, the Just Covered podcast.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: We did indeed.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we got talking, didn't we?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: And talking about your career and your passions and all the things that enthuse you about financial planning.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we also got into the subject about your sort of intrinsic values and where you want to go in your future.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a great conversation, and it was really, really lovely to meet you.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, obviously I was going to extend an invitation to come on the Financial Planet Life.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I enjoyed that podcast particularly as well.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: But it was good to catch you.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's give them a little plug.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Let's give Legal in general a little plug, because we're good like that.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us a little bit about what that podcast episode was about.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was Hazel who I think it was her baby, wasn't it?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: She'd thought of this idea of a podcast, um, I think inspired by herself, I may add.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: She was she was a fan of your podcast, so she thought there was a need there to help advise us, I think, particularly in the protection space and and follow best practice.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so she's a fellow Scott, so I think she'd seen me on LinkedIn and she thought she liked my stuff.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I believe I was uh luckily um enough asked to be the third guest.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was good again, such some idea, just what was your journey?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: What have you got any hints and tips for new advisors or people looking to change direction?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: How have you gone about your business?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a very conversational and but an enjoyable hour of my time.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and what I love anyway, and and and and it's why I love being involved with the Just Covered podcast, is that I'm a big fan of peer-to-peer learning.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think podcasts is such a fantastic medium to be able to have a sort of open conversation that isn't scripted.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the time it brings out in people things they wouldn't normally say if it was just a camera in front of them scripted.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it it sort of brings a side out of people that's quite honest and people then relate to it and listen to it and long to it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always been a firm believer in podcasts.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned so much myself from it.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the financial planning profession itself has always been quite sort of um, I would say puckered up.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't really share a lot of information.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and anything which is peer-to-peer-based to me is an absolute winner.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: So if anyone's listening to this podcast right now, if you want another podcast where you're going to hear what other financial planners are doing, how they do it, but also based also around protection, obviously, because Hazel itself is like an intermediary manager, isn't she?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: That talks to advisors to get them using the podcast in the correct way.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: But go and check out the Just Covered podcast that's been produced by us here at the Financial Planner Live Studio.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Another shameful, shameful little pitch there for myself.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um Nicola, so listen, thanks so much for joining me today.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, uh absolutely a pleasure to have you.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um let's kick things off, first of all.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um a question I always like to ask people is just how did you actually get into the financial planning profession?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I got into it probably the same as a lot of older advisors did, just fell into it.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um my dad was an advisor, but I would say he was a mortgage and protection advisor.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: I went to art school after school and I studied architecture.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't have thought of anything worse than being a financial advisor.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: I had um did the admin for him and several partners in Abbey Life back in the day.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And just I just thought, oh no, that wouldn't be for me, definitely not.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I went off, studied architecture, and carried on doing the admin.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I was always about, but I do, I just didn't really I liked architecture, I loved the first two years.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: I found art school a baptism of fire.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I went from quite a protective environment to an incredibly brutal environment, um, and it was tough.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think I got to year three, and I thought, I just don't know if this is for me.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, but I'm not a quitter, I persevere.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I got my degree, I tried working in an office for a year, and I really was okay, it was fine.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: I had to go back and do a two-year diploma in architecture to to fully practice.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I just I don't know.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the kind of person I need to love what I do, and I wasn't loving it.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, right, I'll do what every student does, I'll take a year out.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I was really privileged.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: The architect's office said, you know, you can stay here, you can work as a technician, we'd really like to keep you.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: If I stay here, I'll be here for forever.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I thought I'm traveling the world, and and then I had a slight mishap in that I fell pregnant.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so traveling the world didn't seem quite possible at 21.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when I look at people doing it, I could have still done it, but I was scared.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: I thought traveling the world's not going to happen right now.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I decided to have the child and yeah, and I did it pretty much on my own.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: So as soon as I was pregnant, I thought I need to, I need to get a career, I need to get some money coming in.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very much from a family of work, work ethic is strong.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to have there's nothing against claiming benefits, but it just wasn't for me.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I need to do something with my life and I need to make it a good decision because I want to be able to financially provide for that child.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I pretty much have financially provided for that child on my own for 20 years now.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you know financial services just seemed like an easy option?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was FPC one, two, and three.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I got that when I was pregnant with a view to after I had the baby becoming an advisor, you know, just like that.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so about I think said child was I don't know, six months old, and I just started very much mortgages and protection.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's why Hazel had had one just covered because I have got a good basis knowledge of those kinds of things.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, but I quickly thought I don't want to be a mortgage and protection advisor, it's not enough for me.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a lot of people saying, you know, you gave up architecture, it's a professional career.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you doing this?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is never going to work.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought I'm going to be really professional, I'm going to get all my qualifications and I'm going to prove them all wrong.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a good incentive.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it really wasn't planned, and it just kind of happened.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I did put a lot of hard work in at the start.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, very, very interesting.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, yeah, absolutely typical story.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: People often go to university or even go into progress professions that they think it's what they want to do, or they feel like that's an area they've been pushed into.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: They and often sit in it and don't particularly enjoy it very much.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, regardless of what a I'm, you know, 21 years old with your with your own child coming out of university trying to pick a career, that's got a hell of a lot of pressure upon you, anyway, to try and find something.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also a great motivator as you lent into.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: It motivates you to sharpen your focus because all of a sudden you've got someone to look after.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I understand exactly what that means.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: When I had a child, old school Sam changed.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I became this different person, and I had to think about the actions that I was taking, and I had to think about the future because I got somebody to support.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't imagine at 21 years old what that must have been like.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that must have been quite quite uh an eye-opener and a sharpener of your senses.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think if I was honest, when I was pregnant, I was probably quite depressed by it all.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um never once thought about not having the child, which I I don't know why.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's not anything in me that's intrinsic belief that I had to do it, but it just felt like maybe I was a little bit lost.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was probably the right direction to go in.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a great believer in things happen for a reason, you've just got to go with it.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it was tough.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my 20s were probably the toughest decade of my life.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it does, it motivates you to get out of bed, it motivates you to come home and be able to do things together.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I I don't regret it for an instance the direction I took.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let's delve into it because I suspect there's probably women that listen to this podcast and men as well, that are um parents, okay, and or they're thinking about planning families.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you you've been in the financial planning profession for how long now?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh 21 years as an advisor.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'll be 43 this year.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I I feel like I've been in financial services since I was 12 because that's when my dad went into that industry.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So 10 years before that when I'd experienced it.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I've always been admin.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel I know inside out, and I suppose it was it wasn't as scary as I thought because I had a certain comfort that I knew the potential of it.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it was doing being done very well then.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was a completely different industry.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: I now think it's more of a profession, which is great.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I do think there was a comfort because it was something I knew.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it gave me something to fall back on to build from.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Did you go straight into self-employed or were you employed?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: How did it work out in the very beginning?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Initially, while I was doing the exams, I did my dad's admin still.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Then I kind of moved into maybe for about two years.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: He paid me a paltry salary, which we laugh about now.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it got me a car, so that was okay.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I'd be lucky if I was on minimum wage then for about a year or two.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was quickly like, come on, you know.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I became self-employed then.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he worked for another few years, and then I've been on my own now for 30 years in this current business setup.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: So pretty much I would say about 80% of that time has been self-employed.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: During that early stage period, right?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're in your 20s, you're looking after a kid, extra responsibilities, right?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's that's that's that's that was on your shoulders.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, let's talk realistically um based on what you were doing then and what you know now.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's listening to this episode right now and they're thinking, like, I wouldn't mind becoming a financial planner, I wouldn't mind becoming a qualified advisor, what do you think is a realistic time scale um around the expectations of time it takes and to do the job and the hours and you know, to realistically be classed as what you would consider to be like a good level financial advisor?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I think five years plus before you even feel confident and comfortable.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think in that initial five years, I was slightly making it up as I went along, and it was really scary times because you sort of having to check everything, making sure you're getting reassurance for things.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think from age 30 plus, I don't know if it was an age thing, or maybe it was just time I'd been doing it for.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I felt, yeah, I've got a place in this industry, um, I'm not a newbie anymore.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was still at that point probably the only woman in the room at anything.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: If I was at an advisory event, um, I was probably the only person of the age that I was.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a lot of comments initially about you know how someone who's 60 is going to take to you.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, will they do?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can prove that you know what you're talking about.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think I I went on increasing my knowledge as quickly as I possibly could.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I progressed to charter very quickly, and I got chartered and fellowship at the same time.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I constantly put myself on development things that I thought would push me on.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because to me, and I don't know if it is a female thing, I think the validation of knowing that you have the qualifications behind you increases your confidence.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think there was an element of fake it till you make it, if you came across as if you knew what you were talking about.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I always remember something my dad's saying to me, and he will always say, I was never the advisor that you are, and and he means that.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: But he always said, if you treat people well, you go on with people, you can emphasize emphasise with them, you can relate to them, people by you, not financial services sector, because ultimately I think now the product is just the facilitator for what they're trying to do.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I always that stuck in my head, and then I kind of read up in a bit about how do you get people to trust you because I like to read, and I thought, well, people trust you because you do what you say you're going to do.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if you do that and you don't overcommit, and we're all guilty of that at times, I'll get that done for tomorrow.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you're not going to don't say you're going to do it for tomorrow, because if you say you're going to do it and you do it on time, or if you can't do it on time, explain to a client why and apologize.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's these kind of small things that I think have stood me in good stead.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that really pushed me on.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people just liked me.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I find people really interesting.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I find listening to stories and hearing about differences and opinions.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And even if I don't agree, I just find that that element of our job, our conversation, very, very a good part of me.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of brings me alive, I think.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So brilliant.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to go on to that.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're going to delve a bit deeper into the relationship side of being a financial planner and we're going to lean into some of the advice that you might be able to give and some of your experiences and the strengths, especially around different types of clients as well.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um let's just fast forward a little bit, right?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you've gone, you're working for your dad, you're doing the administration, you're a good five years in in your head of like what it really does take to become a good quality financial advisor.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's great, great advice.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's great to be realistic with timescales, right?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of companies out there that are almost peddling without saying it.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Get rich, quick, fast track to becoming a financial advisor.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And don't get me wrong, right?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Some people will go through that process and they'll nail it and they'll do it, but not everybody.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a massive gap in the market for a more calmer, well-being focused uh academy route or entry-level route into the profession that A educates people about the different uh you know roads to take and pathways to take, whether it's admin, power planning, compliance, and uh advisor, and that just because you become a power planner doesn't mean you're in that position forever, you can transition.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't mean if you want to go to become an advisor, you can't go back to being a power planner.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's IFA, there's restricted, there's whole of market restricted, there's running in your own business, being an AR, there's a registered individual self-employed, there's going DA and what does that all mean?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think uh the educational part in the very, very beginning gives people uh empowers people to understand where potentially the road can go for them in their career.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: But it also allows them to manage their expectation of what they think they want to do and what they think others think of them and how fast they should get there.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm in the process of building an academy at the moment, and that academy is going to lean into that and it's gonna be focused on calming the process down, people making the right choices and then linking them to firms that match the individual's uh aspirations, ambition, but also I want to make sure that that person's strength, uh, intrinsic values also align to the values and the culture of the companies that we put them in contact with.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, as well, connecting the companies of all different shapes and sizes with the next generation of planners that also match what their ambitions and growth plans are.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of this kind of one hat fits all approach that is out there at the moment and has to be out there, and I applaud the companies that are doing it, but I'm a firm believer in things need to change at that at that period, and there has to be some realism around timescales and how to achieve your goals.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we're working on that at the moment, and I'm excited to bring that to the table quite soon because there's a big community around the expert training on soft skills, the things that often get missed out as well.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's the soft skills side, you know, the relationship building that you were talking about.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Have you um you've obviously set your own business up, right?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're a chartered financial planner, you now run your own business.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's a great transition, isn't there, from being employed in a role to then becoming a uh a business owner, self-employed.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us a little bit about one, why you did that.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: So why did you decide that I'm gonna run my own business and build my own business?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'll lead into just really the realities of that.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I I don't know if it was a choice or it was just what happened in financial services at that time.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: There weren't particularly many employed roles unless you worked for a bank.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um ultimately, I think what drives me is flexibility.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be able to go.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: I have another two children now, twins that are eight.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to be able to go to everything that they have.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I want to, if they're sick, change my meetings and stay at home with them or do Zoom meetings instead.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be told what to do.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think people that know me say that is a bad character trait at times of mine, but I'd like to be in control of my own destiny.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think it was ever a choice for me to be employed, but do I think having a stronger support at the start would have been brilliant.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Everything that you're saying is entirely right.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think I wanted to build a brand that was very much based on my soft skills and my values.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I give a lot back to charity with time and money, and I wanted to be able to do that as part of the business.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: So until I did my masters, I didn't actually realise this was all part of value, mission, visions, strategy.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: It just was what was in my head.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to employ people that would be good with the clients, you know, in the back office spaces as well.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to offer them opportunity to be trained if they wanted that.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think exactly what you're saying about I have always struggled to find another advisor to come on board with me because I do think I have a very idealistic view of financial services and the good that it does.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I think exactly what you're saying, if you can match brands with values and people better, that would be ideal.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I strongly agree on the fact that people come in thinking they're going to earn thousands of pounds every month within two years, and they're not.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And nor should they, if I'm honest, I don't think they deserve to at that time.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's it's fine charging a higher fee if you can offer the value and the experience and everything that goes with that in your time, and you can.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people will say that to me, you've got an immense memory.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I do have a good memory, but I also have a good use of note-taking and storing of data.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I always make sure that I ask clients about everything to do with them, their pet, their family, their kids, everything.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I wanted always to be like a family brand, if that if that makes sense, like part of trusted advisor, who is like a friend, but it's not a friend.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very, very boundary on that.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: My clients are not my friends, they're my clients, but I can be a trusted advisor, stroke confidant that can help them along the way.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't want to blur that boundary of professionalism either.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's quite a balance, but I think that has been dictated to me throughout my whole life.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I want to do.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think given that self-employment, that building a business, then you can't do it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a limited company that I that was initially probably driven by tax efficiency.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't necessarily think it's the most tax-efficient way anymore, but it's what I have.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I did engage with a marketing consultant at some point to sort of try and reposition my brand so it better reflected what I was doing.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I have taken expert advice on these things, um, and I think it's been money well spent.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um the clients like it, but I also think it gives a good example in financial services of what you can do.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got to think about finance can be for good.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't just have to be all these negative reputational issues we've had in the past.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: We can really change lives.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I still go into meetings today with peers and still predominantly male.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I believe we're up to about 17% female, which is something that I think is quite worrying still.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: But they always talk about fund performance.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: That is their main concern.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: How are the funds doing?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh oh, it's been down last year, what are the fund managers doing to make this better?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: That is important, but I don't believe it's the only part of our job that we need to focus on.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because if we've done our job properly, clients will understand that there will be negative years.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: They will understand that funds will go down as well as up, and it will be part of the overall plan.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, if there's if these things go on a straight with a fund manager may need to make changes, but you shouldn't jump in and just make them straight away.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: You have to see what happens to the market conditions.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: But to me, it's a very small part of my job because we use investment fund managers for that purpose.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I I think the road from that to that to me probably happened more by direction than I think, but I felt it was just that was the way to go.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to be in control of my time.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be in control of my destiny.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Clients will always say, Oh, you seem to work all the time.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: I will take time off when I need it.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: But if I need to do something at nine o'clock at night, I will also do it at nine o'clock at night.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: If I choose to get up at five, six o'clock in the morning do a couple of hours, I will.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, post my twins, I tend to do an early morning, a couple of hours before work.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas when I had just one, I felt I could work later into the night.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably an age thing now.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: My kind of body cycle's changed a bit.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I do what suits me.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like as I said to you, when we started, my dad was ill yesterday.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: I had to just cancel all my meetings and take him to the hospital.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: All my clients have been incredibly understanding of that.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they all came back and said, family comes first, don't worry.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Please tell them we were asking for them.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: So they very much know that that is my approach.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: I will treat them really well, I will look after them, but I am a family person ultimately.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, lots of things to unpack there.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's the flexibility about working as a financial planner, there's a flexibility about running your own business, there's a flexibility about having the fund managers on side that, you know, are looking after the investment side of it so you can focus on investments, right?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's also this unpacking around the personal brand element that you developed that, you know, your values, your intrinsic values weren't really aligned to somebody else's business and that you wanted to do things your way.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that you wanted to reinvent the wheel, you just wanted to be able to connect with your audience or the client, the types of clients you wanted to work with, and you wanted them to understand what your purpose was around your own business.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: You engaged with marketing really to kind of look at how to position that in the best possible way.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um what I'd love to kind of lean into there, right, is that when you did that work around that personal brand and you aligned yourself to your personal intrinsic values and your intrinsic purposes.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Give me sort of an idea about how that changed you and how you how it changed your direction.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Did it make you more motivated and more excited to do the job that you did?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because you seem passionate about what it is that you do, but it's the people that you're passionate about.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's definitely the people that I'm passionate about.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoy helping people.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when I look at my initial career choice of architecture, it's taking a problem and it's solving it, isn't it?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not that different what I'm doing, it's just a different problem.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the deeper my relationship becomes with the client, the more enjoyable it is.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I love getting to that accumulation stage in pensions where you actually see them start to really enjoy the money.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's quite strange because I know advisors they like to hold on to funds under management.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's not my money.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I say to clients.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: I am only helping you build that pot of money to get to where you want to do in life.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Naturally, you will spend it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: But if we've done a job right, it will have grown.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: You probably won't spend it all.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you'll give me lots of referrals and recommendations, and my business will build that way.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that that sort of the time it says really satisfying.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or sometimes as well, if somebody sadly gets ill or passes away, the fact that you've set up that that that situation so that you've you've really protected against those risks, then you actually know that they don't have financial worries at that point.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: That that is that is so strangely satisfying that you sleep easily that night knowing, and I've had about six or seven claims last year, a lot in one short space of time, not one has even had a quibble about paying out, you know.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: So the families are in a position where they don't need to worry about money, um, but they have enough to worry about, don't they, at that time?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I've taken one of our worries away.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think yes, the marketing and the personal branding, I think I mentioned to you before, I'm a great believer in things happen for a reason, people come across your path.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I got referred by such a new advisor that I was mentoring, and she was struggling, and she was really struggling as well when somebody came from her old job or a old network to take that hat.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: If she had been um, she worked in the opera, I think, and she'd been this kind of really expert in her field.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now she was saying to all these people that she'd worked with before, I'm an expert in this field.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: She was struggling with that.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: How can you be that person?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it was her colleague who came along who'd set up her own um business, and I'll give Joel a plug because I'm okay to give plugs.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Joel Cowper of Six Degrees East, she is an angel in disguise.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: So she came to me and we just sat talking, and there wasn't actually an awful lot I could do for her because she was moving to France, but we kind of sorted out our pensions, tidied it up a bit, but we really kind of we had it off, I would say, on a on a personal level as well.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you know, I've made a little bit of money out of her.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't I take that money and invest in her services?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: So she was um set up as a marketing consultant.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I had, I should add the the background to this.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just finished my master's in wealth management and I had two modules.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: One was um marketing and one was something about branding, I think.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd actually been really sceptical when I when I took the mod the masters on F.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just really not going to enjoy those ones.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing, it's just airy-fairy stuff, isn't it?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need marketing.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I absolutely love them, and they were one of my top marks out of the whole nine modules.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: I just really took to the whole psychology of people and everything.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought everything I learned there, I want to do it, but realistically, I don't have time to do it, and I also don't have anyone in my office equipped to do it.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a choice.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: I would take somebody on who has a bit of marketing experience.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: The business probably wasn't right to do that at that time financially, or this lovely girl who's really interested and so enthusiastic is sitting in front of me and she could do it for me.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I gave her initially the money that I made out of pension advice, and I said, go with it and tell me what I need to do to achieve all these things.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the start of 2019, I think.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so now she's still on a monthly retainer.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've never ever, she's on a two-day monthly retainer for me.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: So she deals with everything to do with personal brand, marketing, everything, social media, content, everything.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: She is she is brilliant.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um never ever, we've never moved away from one another.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: But all she did was really dig deep into my mind.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: She said, You quite clearly have reasons for doing what you're doing, and you're maybe not articulating that fully.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is it you do?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: She really learned about me and my business, what makes me tick, and she would just take my mind and articulate it.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: She has this really good knack for, you know, Joe.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to say this, this, and this.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what I can say these things about other people really easily.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I could sell, I could say, you need to live, listen to Sam's Financial Planner podcast.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely amazing.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: The guy's phenomenal, you know, and I can tell everything about you.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's my social clip.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: But trying to do that about me, I probably really undersell myself, I think.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if that was a confidence thing or if it's just the kind of person I am.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I less so do it now, since we started this in 2019.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I have been nominated for multiple awards, I've won awards, you know, it's all these kinds.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it really boosted me to actually see what someone else was saying about me, having met me.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's an interesting one because I think it's been a sadly, I sound really cheesy by saying a journey for me.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Of course it is, but it's certainly made me learn a lot more about how I'm perceived by other people.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um client testimonials tell you that.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I find them so lovely, you know.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: I ask for them consistently because I think they're great to show other clients what people say about you.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of joke and I say, like, it isn't my mum, and it isn't you know my best friend.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is people who have worked with me for many years, and this is what they say about me.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that gives other clients reassurance to actually then use you.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: But working with Joel, I would say hand on heart was the best thing I ever did for my business.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a really a couple of things, Ed, like uh some great things to unpack, really.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: One is that masters of wealth management.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've throughout my career like on the recruitment side, it always came up and people would always say, Is it worth me doing it?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I didn't have an answer to it because from my perspective, a a qu I don't believe a qualification makes you a good financial planner.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that you don't need to have the highest level of qualifications.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to need to have the highest edification.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I absolutely love about the profession is that someone could leave school without a bloody GTSE to their name and one day become a financial advisor earning a hundred K plus.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's that's what I love about the profession, is it lends itself to that.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to be, yes, you have to pass on qualifications, and yes, you have to have a a capacity to study and retain that information to get to that level.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not the be-all and end all that side of it.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot, which you're learning around the marketing side as well, that can enhance you as an individual when you get to know yourself and how you position yourself to clients to a build deeper relationships that generate you clients, whether that through whether that's through your marketing or whether that's through networking or whether that's through referrals, whatever it might well be.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that's all an area there.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: So just touch on that for me.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: That that that qualification, just briefly, do you think it's worth it and what's in it, and how has it impacted you apart from that?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, positiveness around the marketing, because it triggered that in you, but you could get that through just connecting with the marketing person, couldn't you?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Qualifications, I love learning.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be 100% upfront about that.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: It totally fires me up.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love self-development and learning to the point of people go, What are you doing now?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: I will always have a project on the go and I have one on the go now as well.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just me, it's it's it's something for me.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: I hand in heart, the chartered and the fellowship qualification, I believe, will become this the standard for financial advice going forward.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know when, but I would advise everyone to start that, you know, start doing something towards it.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that that confidence in front of the client came from that because I felt I had tools in my toolbox that I could deal with more complex cases, I could take on more challenging clients.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: It made the job much more interesting for me.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: The masters was a crazy thing to take on.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be perfectly honest.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: I enrolled when my twins were six months old.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Then I had a bit of a sense check and thought this is not a good idea.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I deferred for a year, but they were still only 18 months old.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Husband wasn't happy, everyone thought it was crazy.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was like distance learning for two years.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: We did nine modules, and then it was dissertation for the year.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: I've got so much out of that master's, it was unbelievable.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know why.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I it was very much there's a lot of self-awareness, there was a lot of, I didn't enjoy the economics module, I didn't enjoy the business law module.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: They were awful, but I got through them.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: The things about leadership strategy, marketing, all those kinds of stuff I felt really helped me run a business.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I personally find the running of the business the hardest part of my job.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the natural fit for me, employing people.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've got too many ideas.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them aren't go, they aren't a go-a.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an ideas person, I'm not really an implementation person.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I like to kind of inspire, and it's probably really annoying, actually, if you work for me, because I feel it's always on it the next thing.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: I can relate to it.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I can relate to it.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I'm ever going to change on that one.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: You probably won't, and it's not your in and I'm doing huge, I've been doing so much work around this recently.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like looking at your looking at your strengths, right?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: And not looking at your weaknesses and not spending too much time beating yourself up for the things you're not so good at or you think you should be good at, right?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: You have a skill set that you lean into and you should just do that.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's your area of expertise.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're saying for example, I I've got a recruitment business, there's like 25 people in it.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm not a manager of people, we work that out quite well, but I'm very good at inspiring people and enthusi getting people enthused and onside.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also incredibly good at change.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can I can look at my business and I can see the problems and I can solve those problems.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a bloody, bloody good problem solver.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do I want to sit there and write all the processes and do all of that?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do I want to bring people into my world and empower them to do it?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's what I want to do.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: But the day-to-day runnings of a business are not that interesting to me.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the mechanics are where they're broken and my ability to come in and problem solve, I get so enthusiastic about it.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: And like you, people get annoyed by me because I am inquisitive and I want to make those changes, and I'll dig and I'll dig and I'll look at my responsibility in things as much as people's responsibility.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it it it causes uh concern for some people because it it worries them that my attitude for change is like I don't want change to happen or uh I and I get it, and it's and it can be it's been a learning journey for me running a business in that respect and knowing where my skill set actually lies.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: But we're going through a transitional process stage at the moment.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, we've had wrong people in the wrong roles.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: And where I've been looking at my strengths and weaknesses, it's evident in the other people's.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: So then I've got to help them see it.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you do, there's this relief behind the eyes because they're holding on to something they don't want to hold on to anymore.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then they let it go and you acknowledge it, and you say, Do you know what?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: That thing you've been doing for the last five years is not very well.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's because you don't like it in it.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Yeah, and it's like, should we get rid of that and give you something you actually enjoy?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the weight off their shoulders is huge.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just so excited about this whole transition that we're going through as a business because we're gonna move people around into the right roles and into the right positions.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe now this business, if it's got this far and it's pretty good, it's gonna absolutely pop.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that excites me.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: But you've got to smash a few eggs to make an omelet.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're never gonna be the most popular person in the room when you've got that skill set.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think there was something else you said earlier as well.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you have a marketing for you has become really very interesting, right?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're a naturally inquisitive person and you're interested in others.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: But one thing I know from you, from just knowing you for a very short period of time, is you care deeply about others.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: You are empathetic, you've done charity work, you're talking about this higher purpose for what you actually do and aligning yourself to that higher purpose and articulating that message to clients because then you attract the type of clients that you want to work with because they feel the same way.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: They feel if they invest their money with you or pay you a fee, that good things are going to happen because it's that they're they're aligning their personal objectives and values with someone like yourself.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the dawn of you know, bringing in of things like positive impact investing.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I love all of that.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if I had a financial planning firm, I would be very much focused on that positive impact investing solutions, the change that can happen just by looking at your pension plan and reinvesting your money in a different way.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it creates also a connection with a whole different audience.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's plenty of people who are grandparents and whatnot that are starting to look at the world and think, I'm gonna be leaving this, we're leaving this world behind to my grandchildren.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we're starting to see there are positive things happening in this world that we have to change.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: And can I make a difference through my investments, leaving that money to my children?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Not just leaving the money, but where that money's are invested and the impact it has on the planet and people.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I think um have you done much around that within your business?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do much around the ethical ESG side stuff?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, to me, it's a core.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about it with everyone.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um some clients don't understand it, so it's an educational piece.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you tell them a bit about it.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Personally, I don't see why you have to invest in bad things anymore.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I think you can make really good returns.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was speaking to a young 18-year-old on Monday, our mum's a client, so the mum was in the meeting, and I said straight away, this this would work for you, and the returns are solid.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and why would you not do it?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because you want to put a little bit of money away, it's not massive.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: I to me it's I mean, I've got my own stuff in it.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: I believe in it, it's education piece on certain people.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Had an ex-pilot, well, I don't want to invest in anything, and I'm just going to say, he's not a client.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't that I decided because he wouldn't invest in that, he's not a client.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: It quickly became apparent we were on different paths.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: What he wanted and what I offered were two different things.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: So years and years ago, I could never have thought of the day I would say, well, it's maybe not going to work.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I do quite often now say that.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Two clients about fees, you know, oh, we could get it cheaper if we do this.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they were comparing me against a robo advisor, you know, a platform.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the same thing.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: So you yes, it's dear, but it's dearer because of this, this, and this.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't want what I'm offering, then it's a fairly reasonable proposition, you know, that that's fine.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Go for that.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because if we don't start it on the right footing, it's not the right thing for both of us.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it it goes it goes back to lots of things.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, the sustainable and responsible part of the job really appeals to me.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have a great platform to do better.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you see some of the stats about how much you can recycle, and if you just actually looked at it for your pension fund or your ISA, you know, you can do more good, can't you, with these bigger things than actually just recycling?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we can all try and do our bit.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're not perfect, we can't do it alone.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: But if everyone collectively did a bit more, then I think we could make a massive difference.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: So for myself and my kids' sake, I want to do it.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I think we should live in a world where everyone has positive things to look forward to.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think these companies, and it's it's not the companies we expect nowadays, is it?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's companies that are just trying to change the future.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I find the oil and gas companies quite interesting because some of them are really making inroads into the future.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: But if you discuss that with a client, initially we go, oh, oil and gas, we'll just avoid that.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: You have to explain what it's about.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: So the more companies we get doing better things, the actually more mainstream it becomes, doesn't it?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think personally, I think that is the way of the future.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think last year was a bad year for these investments because oil and gas was so um high, wasn't it?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Share prices and things, but I think that's not going to be the future.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't think um so yes, sustainableness ones may have had a bad year last year, but I don't think that'll that'll sustain.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I think clients haven't really thought about it.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: So if we had advisors don't speak to them about it, they don't necessarily know about it.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: I do think the younger generation know about it, but not necessarily your grandparents, like you said, about what they could do for their kids and other grandkids.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we have to involve it in part of our day-to-day discussion.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think consumer duty is highlighting that as well when it comes.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think we should do it as a tick-box exercise.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think we should do it because we believe in it and we want to do it.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Essentially, it now it is a tick box exercise, isn't it?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: There literally is a tick-box exercise.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're absolutely right.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: The next generation of savier investors that's got more education at their fingertips and more uh alignment to the purpose of people, planet, and you know, and doing good.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the firms that are bringing that in are doing well.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's a company called The Path.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever heard of a company called The Path?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have now.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: When you when you come off this um podcast, just research the path and have a little look at the work that they're doing and how they're positioning themselves around positive impact.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's another guy called Jeremy Korn, and he does something called Impact Invest.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um advisors and sophisticated investors, but he's got a platform where you dig sort of deep into the businesses that are changing the world and you can invest in those businesses.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um of course by investing you're having a positive impact.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the returns that, for example, the path are are articulating that they're getting for their clients are on par, if not better, than some of the more traditional um portfolios and funds that are out there that are still investing in things like tobacco, pornography, deforestation.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's very, very interesting.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they're doing a very clever job of uh niching themselves as that type of expert for that next generational wealth.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: But also from I mean the conversation I had him on the podcast, and he was saying, like, you know, we're positioning it with our clients of an age who have grandchildren, and we're talking about that next transition of wealth, passing the wealth down, and and and what sort of world are we going to be leaving behind for them?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's just a huge opportunity also to create content that's meaningful and purposeful and connects.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we shouldn't kind of we shouldn't sort of manipulate the market, manipulate people, but at the same time, we live in a world where people do doom scroll.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: They are looking for problems, they're looking for the things that are happening to the planet.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what's going wrong?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're more interested in the things that are wrong in the world.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've got a solution and you're marketing your solution to those types of individuals that are constantly looking for all the problems, and you're like, I've got a solution, I've got a solution, I can do it this way.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great way to win new clients that feel that there's nothing out there for them that's helping them, um, especially around financial services, banks, etc., because people do tend to have a negative view of financial services.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just you know, the rich get rich and the poor get poor.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there's definitely an element, and if I had a financial planning firm, without a shadow of a doubt, my financial planning firm would have a big emphasis on that.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um because it's just a great way to market.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then also it's a great route into becoming B Corp as well, you know, and showing your commitment to the People Planet, and we're going.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: That I recruit UK at the moment.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bloody long process.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Got Emily in the room right now.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: She I said, Let's go B Corp.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, Great, I'll help you.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then like 13 months later, I think it's just an app.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: I got out.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is exactly how I annoy people.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Set it up.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, off you go.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then clam, we need your help.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do it.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: So like they're all doing it for me.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a great, it's a great way to position yourself as a business.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's hardly any B Corp businesses out there in financial planning.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's for sure.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a great niche to mark in and and and to talk about.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take a look.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned something a bit earlier as well.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: You are a female, you've been a female in financial planning for quite some time.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: You've seen the change, right?
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: You've been the w the only woman in the room.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: And more often than not, probably you still are sometimes really that only female in the room, right?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's you've and you felt something like you had to separate, you felt like you had to separate yourself by proving yourself, by going down things like the qualifications route, proving my education, proving my knowledge, establishing my authority.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, especially when you were younger, people saying you, you know, how is someone going to take you seriously?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Alone being a female, you know, I can imagine it's going on in their minds, right?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now, we're talking about the clients now.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: I want to move on to the client side.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you've you know, you you're more than able to share what it's like to be a female in the profession and how you position yourself there.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm interested in what are the opportunities, right, for women in financial planning.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think the opportunities actually are, especially around clients?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now, females being uh they're very lack, it's very not exactly a very diverse profession.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: The clients, as you mentioned, what percentage did you say you had were female and were male?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're probably about 60 female, 60% female, 40% male.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Generally it would be the female that gets referred.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: The male comes as part of that if she's married and things.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I do have a really, I do have quite a strong referral, like company directors, male company directors.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I personally think I was talking to um a married couple the other day who run their own limited company, and they were kind of giving their take on why they think females are good.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: My male directors, I feel sometimes maybe have no one to talk to.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they still have, and I'm I'm talking about different industries to financial services, there's maybe still that bravado that you know, you don't you don't share your problems, do you?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're you're the head of the company, and maybe, and there still is quite often that stereotype of the male is the one that's earning the wife is at home with the kids.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's quite a strange one, but I find they open up so immensely.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: So the males that I really kind of resonate ones are ones that maybe don't have other people to talk to and possibly find that it's a safe space.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I was we got onto the subject um with this couple the other day.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: They they actually run a she she works in health and safety and films, and he's he runs like production and lighting and things, so they have their own limited company together, and they're really interesting couple.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, I just feel more comfortable speaking to you.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I don't know what it is.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: He says, I just feel like you listen, you don't interrupt, you don't talk down to Mary because that's his wife.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Because I find when he's a male, talk to me and not to Mary, but Mary's the brains, as you know, you know.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: He says, She needs her place, and he said, You talk to the two of us about us.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say, Yeah, I mean, some of me and my male directors get into politics, everything, you know, like what's going on in the world, we have quite intelligent conversations, but they also say, you know, it's been a really tough time, or this has happened.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that element of the male clientele really resonates, I think, with the female advisor.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: Also, females, I think, pick females more because they just think they understand what they're going through.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got a lot of clients who are maybe busier females who maybe have children, maybe don't.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of childless um female clients as well.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have a real, real success as well with my little ladies.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be perfectly upfront and honest, they love me.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: And also people going through really vulnerable times, you know, divorce, death, bereavement, um, transition to the time.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: I always think that's a real tough one for people.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I think, as from the client perspective, what we can bring as a female advisor is we've got different experiences, and I'm not I'm generalizing, and I don't mean to generalise because I always say this out front, it's not an anti-man thing.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I believe everyone has the right to be in financial services, and there is some fantastic male advisors out there.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Last year, particularly, I met so many that were just um brilliant, but it's I think when we've got a diverse population, I just think we need to have a diverse advisor population so that people can really understand what people go through because we're not all the same, are we?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely not.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm liking what you say.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: I run a business, right?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: And over time, it's only I've only learned I'm 41 and I've only started to really talk to other men openly and honestly in the last say three years where I feel comfortable to talk to other men.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I found it really easy to talk to women.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: I found it really easy to talk to to women.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like there's something in it where I don't know if it's like the empathy thing or uh male-female thing.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't I don't know.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: I had this conversation today with with Emily, who's my marketing manager.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I can I talk to her sometimes about things I wouldn't talk to anybody else about.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: And their lies and and their you know, that's just that is in essence something that I need to keep a hold of, you know.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I could say something to her that I would say to a guy completely differently.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, whether it's a pride thing, an ego thing, whether it's I don't know, a male thing, I don't a competitive thing, I don't, I don't know.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: But the one thing I do know is when I talk to women and I talk to female advisors, there is this emphasis and and and and men are good at this as well.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong, so I build good relationships with everybody, you know, you know, not split my own trumpet, but I do build good relationships.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very good at understanding people's problems and try to solve them.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think women are just naturally quite good at it.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes into this, I it comes into this world of look step over into financial planning, you hear male dominated, male dominated, and all this kind of stuff.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, well, no, you you have all the the natural characteristics and skills that make a great financial planner.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Bring it across with confidence and you will absolutely nail it.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's another area, isn't there?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: There are there's going to be more female millionaires than there are going to be male millionaires, I believe, over the next few years.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's coming to fruition.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: More households are being uh run by women, like you know, more women are more in control of the financials of a house than there ever has been.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Traditionally, it was quite male.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also you've got more entrepreneurial women that are coming to the table, running businesses, business owners and networking.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's social media plays a massive part in that and connects women together as well.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: So within these uh sub-communities, they need a female financial planner to come in and be that key person of influence, whether it be, I don't know, business owners in the uh the personal training space, you know?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Why not have a personal training-infused financial planner?
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, find your niche in your area, connect with women.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: And women are very good at sitting down and having conversations with each other, talking, networking.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Look at Talk Club, the Men's Mental Fitness Charity.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: The whole point about it is to bring men together to have a chat.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Women do it all the time.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: Women are always sitting down having a cup of coffee with each other and talking.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: Men don't really do that as much.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: So community, networking, connecting, women are fantastic at that.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why, Nicola, I see far more women engaging on social media around content creation, for example.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was driven by women, the change and the way advisors are actually going out and delivering the message of what good financial planning looks like.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or and that was kind of championed very much by a lot of females, like Catherine Morgan, for example, who was talking about coaching, taking it away from that kind of performance-based, but more feelings-based and emotions-based, and connecting what that actually means to you, your money, your future, and what you want from it.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, there's some really, really great women out there that are great examples.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: But there is also a huge amount of opportunity in the space for females and men.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I want to go on as well is like diversity and inclusivity is obviously a massive deal, right?
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Distinct lack of females in the financial planning profession.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: We we we get that.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's going to change and it is changing.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: We've got more and more women coming in, more female leaders I think would make a massive difference, leading by example.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um but what about from a client perspective?
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, we just talked about like the ability to um connect with more females, the opportunity there to to give advice to females, right?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: But what about like things like the LGBTQ plus community?
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: I see very little, uh, if any, if needed, connected to those types of communities.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Or very uh, you know, there's a there's a few uh very few black financial advisors, for instance, right?
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the ones that I've met and brought on the podcast are building communities within the black community, for example.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: So what other communities are we missing out on?
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: LGBTQ, for example, I think is something which is really, really interesting.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: But what are your views on that?
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: These the the diversity around clients.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it's a major area that is that is underplayed in financial services.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think, yeah, initially my kind of goal in life was to get more female advisors, but as you say, we are getting more female advisors, maybe not at the speed I would like, but it's coming.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think these kind of groups, um, and as I say, the ethnic minority group, which to me is not a minority, are not like they don't have role models that they could aspire to, they don't have people that they think could relate to them.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think probably people don't enter the profession because they think, oh, we'll will we be accepted, you know, or will we stand out?
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because there is still that white male kind of dominance.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: But to me, we have to have more people out there that people can relate to because then they'll take more advice.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: So design tap markets, I've personally always had a lot of gay clients, and I don't really know how that happened.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think I just met someone, we got on well, then they referred me and it kind of built up quite naturally.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we just have good chat.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was probably how I find it really.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I said to before, I find people's stories really interesting.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: I like to hear how how did they come to that decision?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: How did they how did their life change?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: What are the challenges, you know, and how can we overcome them?
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't have any specific tools that I deal with people differently, but I just think I have treated them equally and they maybe refer me on.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think you see any openly gay advisors.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my oldest child is transitioning from boy to female just now, and that has entirely opened my eyes to the lack of support in those areas.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's a point I do follow a few people on LinkedIn, but there isn't many advisors out there.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if we can get a proposition that helps them as well, yes, they are the minority, but they do need advice.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's really yeah, that's really interesting.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I take I had Taylor Beavis um on the podcast, really lovely guy, set up his own financial planning business.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: He's a gay chap.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: And he told me that there is um different sort of uh needs, I guess, for gay men over like straight family, like like straight straight families and and and and then and and and and the uh relationships they have and what their lives look like.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: He was sort of implying that more gay men, for example, have more more um disposable income and tend to do more things like holidays and stuff like that because they don't tend to, we are now have families as much.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um and he said there was a kind of like a different approach to giving advice to um the LGBTQ plus community.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned that your um child that was born born a boy is transitioning to a girl, yeah.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or a woman, yeah.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um that must have been a bit of an eye-opening experience to you then, because uh not only from being a mother and going through that, but also the perception, I guess, from the outside world of what that looks like for that person, but the difficulties they're going through themselves for acceptance.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder down the line, does that affect somebody's life?
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: And what part does financial planning and protection, all that kind of thing, play in that?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: It will definitely impact somebody's life, they will definitely have different needs to counteract the thing about sort of a gay person having a different lifestyle.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think any good advisor would be digging down what is that person's lifestyle choices and how can we facilitate that.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're not asking people what do they do with the time and what what's their what kind of floats of boat, then you'll never be a good advisor, will you?
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: So probably with gay clients, I I kind of just listen and get what makes them tick.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how you address that.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: The trans community have entirely different needs.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: On a personal note, it was it's not my story to tell.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was it was a challenging period, but not for the reasons that you think.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: My my my my son is my son had really extreme mental health issues, was very depressed, suicidal, couldn't get to the bottom of what had changed in their life.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it was kind of a relief that I had a reason.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: And probably some people listen to that haven't heard me tell them the reason, so I'm probably out myself a bit here.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I if I speak to people, I'm very open.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've nothing to hide at all on this situation.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's such a polarizing issue, everyone has an opinion.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: That is what I have found.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a great believer in don't have an opinion if you don't really understand it.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think most people in that community just want a bit of understanding.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this isn't to them a wishy-washy decision, this is a life or death decision.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: If they aren't they don't become what they want to be, they probably won't be here in five years to talk to about it.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if if everyone cheated it with a little bit more kindness, and I I I say that on my child's behalf, a little bit more understanding, a little bit more kindness, the world would be a better place.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: But it's kind of a bulk and interest in me because I go, well, how is financial planning going to work for this?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know the answers to that, but yeah, major issues around um protection, I would imagine.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think Hazel and I had a chat with this after the podcast, and she said, I've got to relay this back.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be thinking about how we deal with this.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think there's all the things about name change, gender identity change, you know, it's it's there's a lot of kind of legislation in Scotland recently, um, which is very controversial, which again everyone has an opinion on.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I would speak for most trans people, and I'm not that, but I have had real experience, they just want to have a quiet life.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they just want to be accepted for who they are.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there is going to be occasions where that is going to cause controversy.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: If there's, you know, where do where do prisoners go?
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do they go male, female?
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's that kind of thing.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: But most people are not criminals and they're not doing anything wrong.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: They just have to be something different.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: It is a medical condition.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's very hard to get that diagnosis without paying for private care.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: So there's major issues about how that's funded.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: Not everyone has a kind mummy that pays for it.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um to me, it feels it's something I shouldn't have to pay for, it should be offered quicker.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but when your child is potentially suicidal and you think this may help, you will pay money for it to get it done quicker.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't have five years to wait.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I can I can't um put that off in the hope that it'll eventually get the NHS waiting times down.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a backstory to all this legislation that actually could make life easier for people.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not to make it easier for criminals or people who want to pretend to be something, it's to make it easier for the people who have children out there.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I do feel a responsibility now because I'm that kind of person that if I could do anything to highlight these issues or make it easier for people, then I will.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I will give support to people who need it.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've always said that in my door is open.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: If anyone wants to chat, a bit like yourself, I think you said the same thing to me.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: Come and chat to me, I can guide you.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um from a client perspective, there is a market there that needs to be served.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is a couple of advisors who have transitioned themselves that possibly can deal with that better than me, but I think I have a good understanding of the challenges.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: And with diversity inclusion, that's all it's about.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: So somebody who's ethnic minority, I don't have a great understanding of their journey.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: I want to listen and learn about it, and I'll certainly help when I can, but I don't have that experience, you know.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've got something with experience that you think you can make a difference on, then you should be putting yourself out there to do that.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think um, thank you so much for sharing that, by the way.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very personal story, and and we never know who's listening.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, indeed.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: You don't you don't and that's the thing, and some of the things that we talk about and we share about um that can be deeply personal or can really inspire somebody to change or to uh approach something that they're burying, um, or maybe even to reach out to you to ask you for some advice.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um I found that when I started talking about my struggles around mental health, suicidal thinking, addiction, and I've had so many messages of support around that, but also that they have been inspired to start their own journey to be accountable for how they live their lives, to create a better structure, to have better mental health, for instance.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I've built a lot of those connections through that talk club charity work as well and put people in contact and their lives have been changed.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for sharing that.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think as well, one of the things you have is that you have experience and the thing that you have is the the experience to be able to talk to clients as well if they're going through that situation as a parent, because not only is your your son was transitioning to um your daughter, now your daughter you were transitioning as well.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're you you as a mother were being challenged in your thinking, right?
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what you thought was right and what you thought what you thought was or something isn't, but at the same time an utter sense of relief because hopefully on the pathway to better self-worth and feeling better about themselves, they're no longer suicidal thinking.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: So there's such a a a a muddle of emotions that can happen, and you've gone through it, and that is powerful to share.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I th I applaud you, and I think you should take that because it fits into things like vulnerable clients and it fits into another there's a lot of people out there that are thinking about it that just need their perspective slightly changed, whether they're going through it themselves or whether they're a parent of experiencing that, you've got a lot to give and a lot to give back on.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm you know, I applaud you and well done for sharing that.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I think there's that element of if you if you share a little bit about yourself with your clients, you can emphasize better.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: We've all been through something like I'm saying marriage, I've been a single parent.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: I've probably had more than most, if I'm honest that I could share.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if you give that little bit of yourself, you know, I will counteract that by that meeting is not about you.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: You don't talk more than your client, you listen more than your client.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if you can use an example, whether it's about you or a client confidentially, you're not naming anyone or not, make sure they don't know each other.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_01: But you can say, look, I've had a client that's experienced this or I know somebody's experienced that.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_01: That person just doesn't feel alone anymore, do they?
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: They feel like they've got somebody there.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: So when this news, when I finally figured out, and I you know, I've been to Hellenback trying to find a reason.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have been to Helen Back.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: And when I got the reason, I did get in touch with a support charity, it wasn't even a charity, it was a support group.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: And there was one woman there phoned me, she gave me about two hours of her time.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: And she had that conversation, I felt so much better.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: Felt so much better.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: Her daughter became a son, and I thought, I'm not alone, I am in the minority.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't happening to anyone I know.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: But to be fair, the things that happened to me in my life have not happened to anyone I know of before, but someone else has actually just doesn't even know me, won't even tell me her name because it is such a polarizing area that it's felt we've got hey, you know, there's a lot of people are really hatred here.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is possibly what I feel gay people maybe went through before.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's there's not a great acceptance out there.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it is kind of is this person genuine when they're phone and looking for help?
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's that sort of cloak and dagger stuff which opens my eyes a bit because I thought I'd very much believe in everyone who has their own business to go through it.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: As long as they're a good person and they treat you well, my door's open for you.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter what you are, but I think that kind of open advice to this is not what it's like here.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_01: But that that stranger and whose name I I don't know, gave me two hours of her time and made me feel so much better.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if I could do that for someone else, so someone could listen, and if I can navigate what this journey is, and somebody needs to find this out quicker than it's taken me to do, because as I say to Daisy, as Daisy now, so that that's probably the hardest bit to get the name right and the pronouns, and they really are offended when you don't.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's even learning that they're offended when you don't back to back, but I would say, I'm trying, you know, you've been Michael for 20 years.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying here.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think they have to learn to accept that people that want to try are worth gold.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: People who maybe get it wrong but aren't doing it intentionally are worth gold.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_01: Hang on to them.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_01: My dad yesterday, when we were in the hospital for the barn that he got, he said he doesn't realize because he still says he and then he goes she and then he gets all confused.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: But he hasn't really 79.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_01: Can you please make them aware?
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that kind of sums it up to me.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to try, you'll get there.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you might not get it right all the time, but and I think in this industry with financial services, we can try to help.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's something that interests you, offer that hand of friendship, try and navigate the financial and advice part of it.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because I definitely think you'll get referrals.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but do it because it's the right thing to do.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've always said if Daisy didn't have a nickel, she'd be skippered.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and because I I will find an answer to anything that's put in front of me because it's just the kind of temperament and character that I am.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um I can relate to so much of that in my own personal life, especially around the identification side of things.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_00: When you share something that's deeply uh concerning you and you share it with somebody else, and they you can identify with what they've gone through and you're no longer alone.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: It removes a weight from your backpack.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um the one thing that we can take from this as well is that look, the landscape is changing in i i in every area of our life.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: It is changing within financial planning.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_00: What was quite um rigid is no longer becoming rigid and there is a fluidity around financial planning.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_00: There is the the role is changing, the clientele is changing, there is diversity, there are things coming out like a vulnerable client, person injuring, clinical negligence.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many areas where an advisor can specialise and can add that support.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, what it comes down to, Nicola, and what you're obviously excelling on is it's a people job.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's understanding people, it's empathizing with people, it's building relationships with them, it's getting yourself out of the way and making it about them.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: But because you've got diversity within your client portfolio, then you're educated.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when you walk into those rooms, you get better and better at better at developing, building relationships and offering those little pearls and of wisdom or those kind of inquisitive questions that lead that person on to be truly authentic to themselves.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: And what only comes from that is a deeper relationship, a deeper client relationship, therefore deeper networking opportunities, deeper referrals, a more loyal client base.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, from your perspective, of what you've now aligned to your marketing and the work you've done on yourself, is that intrinsically you are aligned to the purpose of your business for doing good, and that in its own right outweighs any kind of financial gain because you're getting up every single day, aren't you, and you're enjoying your life.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I love my job.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think what would add to that is sometimes your clients give you information that you can then relate to other clients.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_01: So if you get to know someone and they mention they do something, you can actually say, Do you know, would you mind answering this question for me?
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because I could pass it on.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes if you go back to a client like after a meeting 10 like 10 weeks later and say, Do you know that thing we were talking about?
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_01: I met someone and they gave me the and it can be nothing to do with finance, but it just lends so much weight to that relationship because they say, Someone said to me the other week, I've never had a meeting like this in my life.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of thought, and I actually had another advisor because I actually said you need to go back to your advisor.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_01: You've had a 33-year relationship, you need to fix, see if you can fix what's there.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because see as soon as you're changing to me, it's a lot of fees.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is it broken?
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't want to be that type of advisor that steals someone else's client.
• 1:10:27
  unknown: No.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: If they choose to still come to me, if they decide that relationship is broken, then that's their decision.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I've gave them lots of ammunition and lots of questions and lots of things to ask before they decide it's broken, because I think we should have that professional etiquette amongst ourselves.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Just because you're restricted, you're independent, whatever, it doesn't matter.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_01: It matters if you're doing a good job.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's enough clients out there to start stealing clients off one another.
• 1:10:55
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that would be my take on it.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a really good tip for an advisor.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Just remember there is enough clients out there for us all.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if somebody's coming to you who's had got a broken relationship, another advisor, you need to dig deep and find out why.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because one, it might be about the client, but it also might be that the existing advisor, it's just a misunderstanding, it can all be fixed out.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great bit of final advice.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Nicola, I'm gonna have to bring this to a close.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I told you all today.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing your journey.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing your hints and your tips and your experiences around everything.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's lots of gold in there that people can listen to and um and relate to.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think you've talked a few uh people a few things as well.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolute pleasure meeting you again.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure talking to you, and um, thank you for your time.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Have a good day.