Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / Larry McReynolds Tells Vintage NASCAR Stories!

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Larry McReynolds Tells Vintage NASCAR Stories! · Kenny Wallace Media

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Hello everyone and welcome back to the Kenny conversation
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brought to you by Jags, the leader in high performance
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aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to jags.com for
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everything for your vehicles. Well, I'm super excited, like I
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always am, but maybe a little bit more this time because the
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man you're looking at right now has been my friend, my crew
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chief, my working partner. We have done an awful lot
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together. Please welcome Larry McReynolds.
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Larry, how are you? I'm doing good and pretty
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excited to to be on here with you Kenny.
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But first and foremost, you congratulations, the Missouri
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Sports Hall of Fame. Very, very well deserved, very
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happy for you. Well, that means the world to me
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because I think a lot of you you you've done a lot.
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And hey, listen, I I know one way to get this conversation
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started and having fun. First of all, Roll Tide Roll.
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Tide. Yes, Sir.
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Always. Yes.
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And as you noticed we got our banners right here that are
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scrolling match that Alabama football logo and we love you so
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much. So Larry, let's let's start out
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like this. You know, I remember your
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partner in crime, Daryl Waltrip, saying, darn it, these kids
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don't know me for winning my NASCAR championships.
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They know me for being on the cars cartoon and things like
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that. So my point is this.
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Everybody knows you as being America's crew chief.
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You're you're a legend of TV right now working for Fox and we
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will get to that later. We know you for TV, but I know
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you as being a great crew chief. You grew up in Alabama.
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How did you get involved in racing?
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It it's really a pretty interesting story.
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Kenny and I, I'll just give you the treetop version.
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I I did not come from a racing background whatsoever.
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I I was an only child. My mom and dad could care less
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about racing. But my grandfather, my mom's dad
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and my aunt, my mom's sister, who was really probably more
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like a sister to me because she was only 10 years older.
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Than I was the three of us, every Friday night would walk
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down about 10 or 15 minutes from my grandparents house to the
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local racetrack called BIR Birmingham International
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Raceway. And we'd watch the local races,
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just the three of us. I mean every Friday night.
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And then eventually my aunt got married and her husband was a
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race fan. So the four of us every Friday
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night, you know, I was still in. You know high school, you know
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this been like 19741975. Well, my aunt was actually a
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little bit of a hot rodder. And this one particular night at
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the racetrack they started a brand new division called St.
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Stock Hobby Division. It was a stock a race car as you
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could think about building. It had a one page of rules.
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You would take the seats out, the windows out.
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You could do a little work on the suspension on the engine.
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You put the fuel tank up at the trunk.
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Put a few roll bars in it, put a number on it.
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Boom, you had a street stock hobby car.
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Well, the first night they started this division, my aunt
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looked at her husband, said I bet I could do that and he said,
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well, I'll tell you what, go out and find you some sponsors and
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we'll build you a race car. We'll be in a a female in a
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man's world. She went out, rounded up more
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sponsors and we almost had room on the car to put my racing
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career started in their basement.
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And I didn't know a three quarter wrench from a three
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quarter socket. I didn't know a three quarter
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wrench from a three quarter boat.
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But I learned quickly I was like a sponge and my racing career
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started there in their basement building.
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Her that street stock hobby car. What a story.
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Now Larry Birmingham is this the legendary racetrack that I raced
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at, The greats have raced at. Was there.
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Was this the outdoor movie theater on the back
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straightaway? Yep, the football field in the
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the high school football field in the middle, which is the
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reason they never could race past Labor Day because high
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school football started and they had put grandstands up, they
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would block the back straight away.
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So we would always race from about mid-april, and the final
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race of the year was always Labor Day, because high school
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football started the next week. I'll be darned.
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I remember I ran Birmingham maybe once, one or two times
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that I would come off of Turn 2 in the movies be playing.
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Once in a while, there'd be an X-rated movie going on.
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You know, I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up the great Bobby
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Allison or the Alabama game. So did they inspire you in your
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early days because they were from Birmingham?
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Yeah, Hueytown right outside. You know, a lot of people linked
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my relationship, Kenny with Davey Allison, because we were
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both from that area. But I I really did not get to
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know Davey. Davey just was starting to come
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along doing some racing after I'd already moved to the
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Carolinas in 1980 to pursue my NASCAR career.
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Obviously, I was huge. Allison fans Alabama Gang, Red
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Farmer, Neil Bonnett, Bobby and Donnie Allison.
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But the only connection I had with Donnie Allison is when I
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got the opportunity to move to the Carolinas in mid 1980 to
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pursue a NASCAR career. I guess I was wanting somebody
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to give me it's OK to go do this.
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So I went out to Donnie's Late Model Shop out there in Hueytown
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and I chased him around his Late Model car for about an hour.
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Before he finally stopped and said, what can I do for you?
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And I told him what my plan was. And Donnie always has a way of
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getting about that close to your face and poking you in the chest
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while he's talking to you. And he said, you know what, I'll
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tell you something, Larry Mack, you need to go up there and you
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need to do that. You need to pursue that.
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But, he said, I'll tell you one damn thing.
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That checkered flag that Y'all won the other night, I I'd
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already moved on. It was actually working with
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Mike Alexander on a on a super late model, he said.
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I'll tell you one damn thing. You need to find that checkered
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flag Y'all won a couple of weeks ago, because it's going to be a
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long damn time, maybe ever before you ever see another one
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in Kenny. My first win as a crew chief at
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Watkins Glen in 1988 with Ricky Rudd the 26th car.
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The first person I thought about when Ricky took the checkered
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flag was Donnie Allison. What he had told me about eight
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or nine years prior to that, what is that about all of us,
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Larry? You know, we, we've had a lot of
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greats on here and now you. And whenever I talk to them
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about everything they've done, they always go back to their
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childhood. I find this is common for
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somebody as yourself. You know you've won obviously 2
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Daytona, 5 hundreds and and the first thing you bring up is like
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the other greats do you you, you brought up something that
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happened early in your life. It is this what molds us is, is
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this who we really are? Even when we get to be, you
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know, in in the big leagues, you immediately go right back to
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years before. You know, I I think it is Kenny
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because I know it's what what inspired me.
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It's it's what gave me aspirations to grow in the sport
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and eventually be a part of NASCAR and not have to work a
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job and then work on race cars as a volunteer to enjoy the
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thrill of racing. And you know, I talked about my
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mom and dad not being race fans. You know, Talladega opened in
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1969. And I think it was about 1974.
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I was maybe, I don't know, 1415 years old.
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I finally convinced my dad to take me to Talladega, and it was
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the one race that Dick Brooks won driving that #22.
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I think it was a black Dodge. And I remember our seats.
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Yeah, I was. I was intrigued by the racing on
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the racetrack. But what intrigued me was
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watching Pit Rd. What?
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Watching Leonard Wood. Run around and change that tire,
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Harry Hyde heard now. Watching Sterling Marlin Jack
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his dad's car, Cuckoo's car, watching Junior Johnson.
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That's what intrigued me, and I think I knew then that my
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aspirations was to eventually grow in the sport of motor motor
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racing and eventually be a part of NASCAR.
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In to know I set in those grandstands in the early 70s.
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And then spin it ahead to 1992 with a 28 car and Davey Allison
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and be able to win at Talladega with Davey.
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That that was pretty darn cool. It it wasn't the biggest win of
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my career, but because of being at Talladega it goes pretty
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high. Up the sheep.
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I feel like you were so good that you didn't have a lot
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capital letters. You did not have a lot of crew
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chiefs jobs, obviously. Kenny Bernstein, the Quaker
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State car. You know, Richard Childress?
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Robert Yates. Who am I missing in the big time
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when you made it to the Cup Series?
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How many? How many am I off right there?
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Well, not not a lot because there there were some early
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years. You know, I again, I came in in
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September of 1980 and I went to work for that little team in
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Greenville, SC, Rogers Leasing, racing the 37 car and you know,
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Kenny before I left Birmingham. I remember my mom and dad
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looking at me going, this is the craziest thing we've ever seen.
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You'll be back in six months, you'll be broke, you'll be
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hungry, we'll beat you, but we're not going to bail you out
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of debt. And as much as I always
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respected what my mom and dad told me, I said you probably are
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right. But I got to go try it.
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And there were some trying times in those early years I I felt
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like a pattern that was happening is I would go to work
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for a race team. And we'd race for six or eight
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months and then they'd run out of money and close the doors and
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I'd have to go find another job that went on a lot in the early
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part of my career. But you may not know this.
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So I work for Rodgers Leasing Racing in end of 8081.
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And up until the Coke 600, it's Charlotte in May of 82.
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And then Bob shut shut the doors and he told me.
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He said you've got a job as long as you want a job.
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But he said, I know you didn't move up here to work at a Body
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Shop or a car leasing company, but the only thing I'm going to
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ask you help me get my stuff ready for an auction.
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So I agree Bob was good to me, so I helped him get everything
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for ready for an auction. It was in late June or early
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July. It was a two day auction and
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Mark Martin and his mom Jackie Martin came to the auction.
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This was Mark's rookie year. That number O2 Apache stove car,
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yes. So they came to the auction and
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about halfway through the 2nd day, Jackie Martin, Mark's mom,
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kind of came around the corner and kind of said, what are your
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plans? I said, Jackie, I have no idea.
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I think I actually call Miss Martin.
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I have no idea. But I said I I promised I'd get
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Bob through this auction and I'll go from there, she said.
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Why don't you come up and see me next week?
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So got through the auction next week.
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Their shop was right there on the corner of of of 29 where the
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Speedway is not the the road that runs Goodyear building was
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exactly, exactly, that's where their little shop was.
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So I went up there and again, Mark's mom kind of ran the team
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and we talked for a little bit. And Kenny, 15 minutes in the
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conversation, they wanted me to be the crew chief.
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I've only been in this, I've only been in the Cup series two
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years, she said. Don't worry about it.
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Mark Martin is going to make his own calls on this race car.
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We've got Herb nab that's coming in and and getting the car
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ready. We just need you to go and make
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sure what Mark was done gets executed.
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I said OK, if y'all are game, I'm game and lo and behold, the
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first race we went to is poking on.
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We finished 10th. But again Mark, you know that
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that that deal. Fizzled out by the end of the
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year I was, I was hunting a job again.
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But yeah, my first crew chief job was actually with Mark
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Martin his rookie season. But yeah, Bobby Hawkins in 1985
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with Morgan Shepherd. We ran a very limited schedule
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and then that's when Kenny Bernstein came in and that was
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really my first major crew chief job was with that Quaker steak
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car Kenny Bernstein start in 1986.
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Without Joe Rutman driving it, this is my comment.
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I really feel like your strong suit listening to Jackie Martin,
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Mark Martin's mother. I think they were good business
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people. You know, they came out of
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Arkansas, had JMI, Julian Martin Incorporated trucking.
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They were all pretty smart. My opinion is your strong suit
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is you are an incredible organizer.
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You know, I drove for you. I walk.
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I bet people right now that you have your notes from when I
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drove that Texaco Hamlin car. I bet you have the tire sheets.
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You're did you do you know that? Has anybody ever told you that?
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You're so organized? And I think that's a strong suit
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for you. Well, I have people that will
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ask me, Kenny, you know why? Why were you a successful crew
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chief? And and they might expect the
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answer to be well, I worked hard.
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I understood race cars, I worked well with drivers.
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I I never found a single driver I didn't enjoy working with in
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in all of that's probably true. But to me, the things I
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contributed the most to is I worked very hard at surrounding
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myself with people. That was smarter than I was.
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If I was the smartest guy on the race team, woe being to us, we
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were going to be a big, big trouble.
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But I always felt like I was a good communicator.
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I feel like that that is that is the success of of any person in
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any type of business is being a good communicator.
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Especially when you're you're the leader.
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When you're the crew chief and I, I would never ask anybody to
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do anything that I wouldn't do myself.
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I wouldn't know better than than the guy that drove the truck or
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the guy that cleaned the lug nuts.
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We all came on this earth equal naked and screaming and that's
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the way we're going to leave it one.
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So, so I'm going to call an audible right now on Kenny
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conversation. That means we, you know, this is
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not a perfect interview and that's what makes it fun for all
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of us. As we said earlier, Roll Tide.
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I see the, you know, the nice logo for Alabama football.
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Nick Saban, you know, the coach for Alabama football.
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I know how much you love him. You you worship Alabama football
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like I worship my Cardinals. I almost feel like Nick Saban
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and you are a match because you tend to get the most out of
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people. What what?
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So specifically in the last 10 years or however long Saban's
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been there, have you, you and him communicated, is it?
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Have you talked about leadership in any manner or how's that
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went? I I have only met Nick Saban one
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time. Yeah, I was fortunate enough to
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go to. This was several years ago to
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one of their practice sessions. They were getting ready to play
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Arkansas and he came up and introduced himself.
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I introduced myself and it was a very short conversation.
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Even Eli Gold, the voice of Alabama football, will tell you
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Nick Saban engages with people that can help him win football
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games. And that's pretty much it, Yeah.
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But I but I do think you know all of my years as a crew chief.
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Kenny, I really didn't even know about Nick Saban.
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You, you know I mean he was coaching.
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I mean he coached at Michigan State.
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Course he was down there at the Dolphins, the Cleveland Browns.
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But you know he didn't come to. Alabama 2008, 2009.
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But two things that I do see some similarities in my
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attitude, in my approach and what I see with Nick Saban.
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Not that my success could even hold a candle to what Nick Saban
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has accomplished is we both hate losing more than we enjoy
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winning, and even when you win. It's about the next.
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It's about the next race. It's about the next game.
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I I remember I talked about that Talladega race that we won in
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1992 with Davey and we we were right in the thick of the
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championship. It was still early in the
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season. I I remember Linda and the kids
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being down there and we had drove down and she said Liz
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wants us to come out to their house to to kind of celebrate.
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I said Linda Mack, we're headed back to Charlotte.
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We got work to do tomorrow, we got a race next weekend and
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we're in the thick of this championship and I think that's
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what Nick Saban his approach. He loves winning football games
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but you're only as good as your last game and that's what how I
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always looked at it. I'm only as good as our last
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race. We got to move on and get ready
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for the next one. I guess that sometimes I've been
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so focused, so stressed out, that I use happiness or laughing
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because I'm I'm so intense. I've always said that there's a
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certain amount of misery required to be successful.
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What do you think of that? You know, I think there's a fine
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line you, you know, I wrote a book.
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I wrote three books. In my last book that I wrote a
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few years ago, Kenny was called The Constant Pursuit of
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Perfection. And that's how I kind of pattern
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myself. All of my years and honestly,
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it's still the way I go about trying to do my broadcasting,
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whether it's on Fox or FS1 or Sirius radio, you, you know, be
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content with what you've accomplished.
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But you have to always think about what can I do better.
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You, you know, anytime I do a broadcast on TV or a broadcast
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on the On Track show on Sirius or maybe go do a keynote speech.
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When I finish, I immediately start evaluating what can I do
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to be better the next time. If you think you've tapped out,
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if you fit the ceiling that you can't be any better, then you're
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you're you're you're going to probably start not being
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successful. It's always evaluate what you
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can do to be better the next time and that's what I've always
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kind of done and that's what I do today with my broadcasting
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right. I I find it a little slow for me
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to get to your TV career because you know from 1 racer to another
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we we both kind of traveled the same roads you know racers to
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TV. But let's do it just a little
19:57
bit more Two. You are a two time Daytona 500
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winning crew chief. Those that is our granddaddy of
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them all. That's what makes careers.
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So let's let's go through both of them.
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Let's go to the first one you win the Daytona 500.
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Nineteen 92. With Davey Allison, what do you
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remember about that race? Well, it was a really
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interesting weekend. You know when it was a Speed
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Weeks with an S Back then we were down there about a Week, 2
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weeks. Well, Robert Yates and I and
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even Davey, we was not afraid to go left when everybody else was
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going right, and back then the rules were so different and we
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were obviously in the Bush clash.
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The weekend before we made the decision before going to
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Daytona, we're going to run our Daytona 500 car in the Bush
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clash. What a better test session than
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the Bush clash. Now we had to work our guts out
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to do this because of back and forth and back and forth Bush
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clash practice, getting ready to qualify for the Daytona 500.
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But the rules allowed it and we ended up finishing third in the
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Bush clash and we felt like we learned a lot well.
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This was a great plan in place until the last practice on
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Wednesday afternoon. About halfway through it,
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somebody lost an engine going off into one.
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They've gotten oil and we hit the wall and destroyed our
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primary car. Oh my gosh.
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Unload the backup and I ran to Gary Nelson and I said can we
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get just one lap? He said.
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I'll give you 5 minutes. We Doug Yates was warming that
21:45
car up as we were lowering the tailgate now and Gary Nelson
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gave us 5 minutes after practice was over.
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No unheard of today and we had started to tail in the field and
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and here's here's the funny story.
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Kenny, the second dual race back then they were still 125 miles.
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They would line them up on the road course in the infield and
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they would leave. Once the first race was over and
22:14
they would leave going off and then turn 1.
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So we were in the second race and Kenny, the first race was a
22:21
disaster. These cars were sideways on on
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Pit Rd. so loose. So I remember watching this and
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it's like, Oh my God, we've got 5 minutes of practice with this
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race car. We got to start it to rear the
22:36
field. So I remember about the time
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Davey was. Should be in the race car and I
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kept trying to call him Dave. You got Larry, you got me, you
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got me. No answer.
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Finally Gary beverage and I had went down there with him to
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buckle him in. I said.
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Gary answered me. I said where is Davey?
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He said he's behind the car, kicking the shit out of the
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spoiler with his foot. He knew, putting more spoiler,
23:04
more downforce. Oh yeah, he won.
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That first race. So anyhow, we ended up finishing
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third. And so the bottom line is we won
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that race with a backup car. But here's another story.
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It didn't take long into that race to realize our toughest
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competition was Ernie Irving in the four car and the two Junior
23:28
Johnson cars, Sterling Marlin and Bill Elliott. 4 Fords.
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That those four were the class of the field.
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Well, they used to pay a $10,000.
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I think it was maybe from Gillette.
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Halfway money, I remember that. So lap 100, those four
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knuckleheads were racing like it was for the 500 win and and
23:50
basically took each other out, except we we didn't get
23:53
involved. Then after Sterling, Bill and
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Ernie was eliminated, it's our race to lose.
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The only team that can beat us, if we beat them, beat ourselves
24:03
and we ended up winning the race that that is an incredible
24:07
story. I had no idea.
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But I do remember that that extra money you know nowadays
24:13
Larry, they said we're going to do this racing stages and give
24:16
you points. Hell, they should have just done
24:19
that now, offered big money. Oh yeah, yeah, that $10,000 that
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was that was big money because the 500 only paid about 200,000
24:28
to win back then. It wasn't that $1,000,000 like
24:31
what you get now. So this is not to be said
24:35
lightly. You, you win the 1992 Daytona
24:38
500 with Davie Allison as your driver and then you do something
24:43
that is ricocheted throughout the world.
24:47
Dale Earnhardt, senior, The Man in Black #3, has done it all,
24:51
but he has never won the Daytona 500 and Formula One drivers
24:57
throughout Europe. You know, they knew the Dale
24:59
Earnhardt senior story. They all knew.
25:02
Everybody knew. And lo and behold, right there,
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the man I'm looking at right now, old Larry Mack, America's
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crew chief. You win the Daytona 500 with the
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great Dale Earnhardt senior. So once again, what do you
25:20
remember? Well, it's always flattering
25:24
when people say what you just said.
25:26
Kenny and I and I appreciate it a lot.
25:27
I still have fans today that come up to me and go.
25:30
You're the man. You're the man.
25:32
OK, that sounds good, but I just happened to be the fortunate guy
25:37
that was his crew chief and was in place when he didn't blow up.
25:42
He didn't run out of fuel, he didn't have a flat tire going
25:45
off in the Turn 3 on the final lap.
25:47
He didn't hit a seagull on the back straight away.
25:50
I just happened to be the guy that was in place when all this
25:52
came together and you know, my first year with him was 97 and.
25:59
So the first race was the 1997 Daytona 500 and we had had a
26:03
very, very up and down day. The car was not driving that
26:07
good. We had some really bad pit
26:10
stops. But with Dale Earnhardt somehow,
26:13
someway with about 20 to go, we're leading the race and I
26:17
remember looking at Richard Childress and going, what do you
26:20
think boss? He said been here way too many
26:23
times. Well, with about 12 to go.
26:26
I realized what he was talking about because we were barrel
26:28
rolling down the back straight away where the car had picked up
26:31
a push off too, and I think it might have been Gordon gets into
26:35
his left rear and we're barrel rolling.
26:37
So I totally knew what what Richard was talking about.
26:41
And honestly Kenny, something I never thought would ever, ever
26:46
happen. Because trust me, when I went to
26:49
Richard Children's Racing and I'm paired up with probably one
26:52
of the greatest race car drivers to ever grip a steering wheel.
26:56
And I had taken everything that I had learned at Robert Yates
27:01
Racing. It wasn't a matter if we could
27:05
get him another championship. It's how many more can we get
27:07
him? Kenny, We went winless. 1997.
27:12
I I thought I was going to have to hire a bodyguard.
27:14
I could not even wear a good wrench uniform in or out of that
27:18
racetrack because people were accused of me of sabotaging Dale
27:22
Earnhardt's career. It it it, it got really bad near
27:26
the end of 97, but mid February of 1998, hell, I could have run
27:32
for president. Probably got votes after winning
27:36
that 500. But we we built that car in mid
27:40
1997 before January. Testing had even come along in
27:46
98 that that car had already been in the wind tunnel two or
27:50
three times. There is no telling.
27:53
There were no testing rules back then.
27:56
There is no telling how many laps Dave Marcus tested that car
28:01
at Talladega. We've probably been to Talladega
28:03
two or three times and honestly, we almost cut the body off of
28:08
that car before we ever went to the track to test it.
28:13
But thank the good Lord we didn't.
28:14
And the reason we were about to cut the body off Kenny.
28:19
You'll you've been to the wind tunnel, you'll understand the
28:21
terminology. The drag number was just not
28:24
that low. But what made that car good is
28:29
when you yawed it in the wind tunnel, the drag number didn't
28:33
go up. The drag number stayed the same.
28:36
And Dave Marcus, the first time he drove it, he told me he said
28:40
Dale's going to love this car. He said when I go off in the
28:44
corner and I turn the steering wheel, it doesn't lose any RPM.
28:49
And that's what made that car so good.
28:51
No idea why we didn't have all the roamer arms and all the
28:55
stuff back then. Hell, the way we put a body on
28:57
back then. Well, right there we could never
29:02
duplicate that car. But that's what made that car so
29:04
good. Let me interrupt you.
29:06
I I have to because I think you can help me understand something
29:10
because I never got to the bottom of this.
29:13
How come Dale Earn, our senior did not test that much and why
29:18
did Dave Marcus do so much testing for senior?
29:23
Well, one, Richard helped Dave out a lot, especially with the
29:27
engines and some just some information for the two super
29:31
speedways, Daytona and Talladega.
29:34
But Dale would just get bored. Yeah, when I first went up there
29:39
and he came to the shop for the first time.
29:43
I said, OK, Dale, let's talk about a a testing schedule.
29:47
What do you mean testing schedule?
29:49
I said well, where we're going to go test.
29:52
Well, what the hell we're going to test?
29:53
I said, well, we're going to try to test things that makes us
29:56
better. He just, he got bored.
29:59
He just did not want to test and and I remember going, I think it
30:04
was to Indy to test with him. And I you probably remember I
30:08
had a little index card in my pocket and it was a list of
30:11
stuff I wanted to test. And he grabbed that thing out of
30:15
my pocket and got that pen and said, hmm, we've already tested
30:19
that. That didn't work.
30:20
I'm not going to test that. We don't really have a lot to
30:23
test now, do we? You you wonder why I'm it's part
30:30
of the damn reason so so you you win the Daytona 500 in 1998 with
30:37
Dale Senior. You you make it to the checkered
30:42
flag, you come through the triable and you know we all have
30:47
watched this replay over and over.
30:50
All the whole industry is on pit Rd. high fighting that black #3
30:57
during that moment. Larry, when pit Rd. was just
31:02
organized chaos, what do you remember about that car coming
31:06
down pit row, Where did you stay in the pit area?
31:08
Where were you see? I knew nothing about that is
31:12
Mike Joy coined at that receiving line.
31:15
I had no idea that even happened.
31:17
There was chaos in our pits, you know.
31:21
That was back when we used to race back to the caution.
31:23
Oh, and we had taken the two to Go and John Andretti.
31:30
And somebody got together on the back straight away and that
31:34
brought the caution out. And so Danny Color, our spotter
31:39
was owning, you know, you got to bring it back, you got to bring
31:42
it back. We're racing back to the
31:43
caution. And I remember obviously when we
31:45
took the white flag, we took the white flag and the caution.
31:49
Wow. But I still everything that had
31:53
happened to that three car, I just wanted to make sure we
31:57
didn't let nothing fall through the cracks.
31:59
And the track was clear. John and whoever had gotten
32:02
together with that might have been John and Lake Speed.
32:05
But anyhow, I knew we still had to make that final lap.
32:09
Even though it was on the caution, we still had to
32:11
complete lap 200. And I remember everybody was you
32:15
couldn't hear nothing on the radio, everybody was trying to
32:18
talk at one time. And finally, I said Dale, make
32:21
sure you make this lap at at a good speed.
32:26
And Kenny, I think he ran that lap about as fast as running lap
32:29
in the race, making sure he had made it back.
32:33
And I felt the biggest relief. I felt like the weight of the
32:37
world was off my shoulders because again, a winless 1997
32:42
and something else. We had changed engines race
32:45
morning because we had a problem in final practice with a push
32:50
rod and a rocker arm, so we changed engines race morning.
32:54
So I was pretty uptight when that race started, but like I
32:58
say, I felt like the weight of the world was off my shoulders.
33:01
That is so badass. It's unbelievable.
33:04
So here we are almost 40 minutes into this and we haven't even
33:08
got to the conversation yet. So let's let's do it now, Larry.
33:13
Let's go in the next phase of your life specifically when
33:20
where what do you remember when NASCAR on Fox TV we're we're
33:26
going into these other part of your life.
33:28
You're you're this legendary crew chief you've won the
33:32
Daytona 502 times and all of a sudden NASCAR on Fox, this new
33:37
TV channel. At this time Fox is hardly
33:41
known. You know we got CBSABCNBC and
33:45
FOX is coming out of nowhere. Rupert Murdoch going to start
33:48
ATV station. What were who called you Tell me
33:55
this whole process from being a crew chief to TV?
34:00
Well, I don't know if you'll remember or not, but from 1995
34:05
through 2000 that, that six or seven-year period, I did some
34:10
part time TV work. I did some pit reporting, did
34:15
some booth work. It was either you know, during
34:17
maybe an off weekend, which we had a lot more off weekends back
34:20
then because the schedule wouldn't as long.
34:23
I maybe would even even do some pit Rd. stuff for Xfinity or
34:27
trucks on a Saturday as long as we were in good shape with our
34:31
race car. I did some work for for what was
34:34
TNN for TBS. Even did a couple of Xfinity
34:37
Series races at at Homestead for CBS.
34:41
But I never saw myself doing it. I I figured Kenny, when they put
34:46
me 6 foot under, the last words I'd say is 4 tires next stop to
34:53
the day I died. But I enjoyed it.
34:56
It was something different. You made a little bit of money.
34:58
You wouldn't going to get rich or retire off of it.
35:01
But I enjoyed it. So if you remember.
35:04
This big TV package with Fox doing the first half, NBC doing
35:09
the second-half was actually announced before the 199099
35:15
season ended. I remember learning about it
35:18
before we headed down to to Homestead for the race, so it
35:21
was done well over a year out. So that's cool.
35:26
This is this is good for the sport but didn't think a lot
35:28
about it. But I remember it like
35:30
yesterday, Kenny, I was in The Body Shop.
35:33
In the 31 shop of of Richard Childress Racing we were working
35:37
on our Daytona car. I was in there with a fabricator
35:40
and a body man covered from bondo dust from head to toe.
35:43
Mike Skinner, your driver. And they paid me to the phone
35:47
and there was a phone on the outside wall of The Body Shop
35:51
and I remember walking out there and answered it and there was an
35:54
Australian speaking gentleman by the name of David Hill on the
35:57
phone, Chairman of Fox Force. He introduced himself and said,
36:02
I I guess you you realize that we've got the TV rights for the
36:07
first six years to do NASCAR and we just kind of wanted to plant
36:13
the seed to see if you would have a conversation with us a
36:17
bit about becoming our crew chief, families we've hired.
36:20
Darrell Waltrip already is our driver analyst.
36:23
We've watched some tapes of some stuff you've done and we like
36:26
what we see. And we we'd like to have a
36:30
conversation. Kenny, I I didn't even know what
36:32
to say. I I was speechless and I think
36:35
he kind of realized that. He said I'm not looking for an
36:37
answer. He said let's let's get through
36:40
the holidays. Let's get the new season started
36:43
and we'll reach back out to you. Just wanted to see if you'd at
36:47
least have a conversation. Well, I finally said yeah, I
36:50
definitely would like to have a conversation.
36:53
So the new season came. They reached back out to me.
36:57
Something a lot of people probably don't know the Xfinity
37:01
Series race at Charlotte in May of 2000.
37:06
They got Darrell Waltrip and myself and Rick Allen, not like
37:11
they hadn't hired Mike Joy yet. They got the three of us
37:14
together and we went in a in a kind of a curtained off area of
37:18
the Speedway club and we did a mock broadcast of about 50 laps.
37:24
Of the Xfinity Series race, call it an audition, call it you
37:28
whatever you want to call it. And so little bit later on in
37:32
the year we're getting to about July, they reached back out to
37:35
me and said, Larry, we we like what we saw with you and
37:38
Darrell. Are you interested?
37:42
And it was a it was a long process, Kenny.
37:45
It was the toughest decision I've ever had to make in my
37:48
life. The good thing is they were not
37:51
offering me any more money. Which I that was good.
37:54
I could slide that factor aside and make the decision based on
37:59
what's really best for me and really best for my family.
38:03
And I have no idea how many hours Linda McReynolds and I
38:07
said at our kitchen table and hash this over.
38:10
But finally, August of of 2000, I made the decision that I was
38:15
going to do it. And there were a few reasons I
38:17
decided to do it, Kenny. Like I say, one they weren't off
38:21
many more money. Actually I was going to give up
38:23
a little money because there were not going to be be any more
38:26
bonuses for winning races or top ten in points or any of that
38:30
stuff. I wasn't going to get that
38:31
manufacturer car to drive anymore.
38:33
But they were only offered me a two year deal.
38:37
I said you know what, if I do it for two years, they don't like
38:40
me or I don't like them. I can always go back to being a
38:44
crew chief, but probably the other reason.
38:47
There was only going to be a small amount of people that was
38:50
going to be offered this opportunity and I felt like if I
38:53
didn't take it, I would always look back over my shoulder and
38:57
go, what if The good thing is 20 something years ago, 2324 years
39:03
ago made the decision? I've never looked back over my
39:06
shoulder. Oh my God, Larry.
39:08
I'm. I'm getting nauseous right now
39:10
because Ed Gorn had called me and and I turned him down and
39:15
and you didn't. I just feel like I had to ask
39:21
you that question because I'm the same as you.
39:23
My heart was pounding and what you have done will go down in
39:29
history and here's this is my thought and and I'm going to say
39:35
this and then you can respond to it's not not a question.
39:38
Sure, but Mike Joy and you are most likely the longest running
39:46
sports commentators, you know duo.
39:49
I don't know if it's true or not, but I feel like in sports
39:52
history you there's probably somebody out there that knows
39:56
you are still with Fox. My Joy is still with Fox.
40:02
Man O man. That is complete success beyond
40:06
phenomenal belief. What is your thought when I say
40:09
that to you? Well, I I have to pinch myself
40:13
to some degree, Kenny, because it's over a third of my life
40:17
that I've been with NASCAR on FOX.
40:19
You know, I thought I was a crew chief for a long time.
40:23
And I was a race car driver, yeah, for 18 years.
40:26
And and here next year, being with Fox six years longer than I
40:32
was, what was a crew chief? And you know probably the
40:35
biggest thing Kenny, Mike Joy and Daryl Waltrip and Larry
40:40
McReynolds. 15 years, 15 years, shoulder to shoulder.
40:46
I I I think I'd be safe in saying there has probably never
40:50
been a three man booth in any sport that has made it for 15
40:55
years. There's some two men sport.
40:57
I I watched the football game last night.
41:00
Joe Buck and Troy Aikman, look how many years they've they've
41:03
been together, but a three man booth, it's pretty much
41:06
unprecedented and you know the chemistry that the three of us
41:10
had Kenny, we could finish each other's sentences.
41:14
But I think the biggest thing that made us work is we stayed
41:18
in our lane. Mike Joy was the play by play
41:22
guy. He was the traffic cop.
41:24
Even today, Mike Joy never tries to be an analyst and I think
41:28
that's one of a number of things that makes him so good.
41:32
And Daryl was the driver analyst.
41:35
Darrell didn't tell you about making the decision to change 2
41:38
tires or 4 tires. He told you what it was like to
41:41
drive off in the corner. Daytona at 190 miles an hour.
41:46
I was the crew chief families. I broke down pit Rd.
41:50
And decisions a crew chief was making and rules.
41:54
Nobody wanted to hear me talk about driving off in the corner
41:57
at 190 miles an hour. I never did it.
42:00
Why would I want to try to tell you what that was like?
42:02
But I think we did a really nice job for 15 years of staying in
42:06
our lane of what we were an expert at.
42:10
I I want to know what you think of this too.
42:14
I was at Fox for 15 years and I was always amazed that the same
42:20
people that were producing say, the Dallas Cowboys versus the
42:24
Philadelphia Eagles are direct. Your, your director, Artie
42:28
Kempner, these these same people.
42:33
Were were your bosses? Did did you ever have a Pitch me
42:37
moment that the people that were producing, say the the Super
42:41
Bowl, you you were working for them did.
42:44
Did that ever cross your mind? Yeah, I mean you and you, you
42:48
talked about Mike and I, you know being with this production
42:52
for going on 24 years, I think the number one name that comes
42:56
to mind is already Kempner, you know our director, the one
42:59
that's giving you all the camera shots.
43:03
He's been with us since that 2001 Daytona 500 and he's still
43:08
doing NFL on FOX today. Richie Zions, who was always
43:13
like one of our coordinating producers, executive producers,
43:17
I'd like to call it at at NASCAR.
43:21
He just, he's the guy that just produced the Super Bowl back
43:25
February of this year. I love it.
43:27
Chuck McDonald, our producer today, he produces college
43:33
football on FOX today. So yeah, they they do a lot of
43:37
of of intertwining. But I think at the end of the
43:41
day sports is sport. You know, maybe when it comes to
43:44
the analyst, I couldn't probably go do a college football game or
43:49
NFL game like Troy Aikman probably couldn't come do a a
43:53
NASCAR race. But I think the production side,
43:55
it's a lot of the same things that makes it work and makes it
43:59
good. Larry, you and I have spent a
44:03
lot of time together at TV in our rehearsal rooms.
44:09
There has been times, you know, where we both wonder, man, and
44:13
wonder if they're going to have us back next year.
44:18
I mean, congratulations on that, because the the moral to my
44:22
point with you right now is that buddy, you deserve a trophy.
44:27
You've been there longer than anybody, and I want to give you
44:29
a compliment. I believe the reason that you've
44:33
been so successful at TV is they look up to you.
44:38
They need you. You you tell them what's going
44:41
on. I feel like if they ever lost
44:44
you, they wouldn't know what the hell to do because behind the
44:48
scenes, how much? No, it's there's nothing wrong
44:53
with saying this, I don't believe because I've witnessed
44:56
it. And that's why I'm asking you
44:57
because I already know the answer.
44:59
How many times every broadcast, have you helped them with pit,
45:04
Rd. speed or getting up to speed And their analogy, you give them
45:09
a lot of notes to help with the show.
45:12
That's been a lot of your success with them, I think.
45:15
What do you say? Well, as I've always said, you
45:21
know here over the next couple of weeks I'll probably sit down.
45:25
I've already started them. I started them really before the
45:27
season ended and just starting thoughts and ideas for 2024.
45:33
Call it notes. Call it whatever you want and
45:37
probably before Christmas holidays I I'll send that out to
45:42
everybody to producers directors people that produce hub.
45:48
All the all the the the analyst Mike Joy.
45:53
Because honestly Kenny, the only ego I've got is let's just have
45:57
a good broadcast. I don't care.
45:59
I don't care if it's me that says it.
46:03
You know what I'm not going to hide in the corner with all my
46:05
notes hidden underneath my arms. I I just want to make sure we
46:08
get it out there and you, you know, it's a passion.
46:14
I love what I do. You do I I love what I do for
46:18
Fox. I love what I do for FS1 in the
46:21
studio. I love what I do for SiriusXM.
46:23
NASCAR Radio Pete, people say you you work so hard.
46:28
But you know what? I love it.
46:29
I I love absolutely. I wouldn't do it if I didn't
46:33
love it. Life's too short and my my only
46:36
thing Kenny is next year will be year 24.
46:41
Wow. I have no idea what I'm doing
46:43
beyond that. You know, everybody's contract
46:46
is in is essentially In Sync with the new TV package.
46:50
A big deal it it it is. And you know, I I get a feeling
46:55
that Fox will be coming back and and I hope I'm a still part of
46:59
it. Why would I not want to be?
47:01
I'm not looking for greener pastures with another network.
47:07
I just, I'm hope the the ship's still going to be sailing and I
47:11
hope I'm still on the ship. That's my biggest thing, Kenny,
47:15
and and even after doing it 23 years, the toughest thing to me
47:20
about being a broadcaster. And you'll relate because you're
47:23
a racer and you've been a broadcaster.
47:26
As a racer, you didn't need anybody to tell you that was
47:31
good or that was bad. You had a stopwatch, you had
47:35
practice results, qualifying results, race results, and at
47:40
the end of the year, each year points results.
47:42
I didn't care if anybody liked how I did it or not, as long as
47:45
those results were good, because that's what that was, the
47:48
measuring stick. But even after doing
47:50
broadcasting for 23, going on 24 years, you don't have a
47:56
measuring stick. You really don't have a
47:58
measuring stick. And my only hope is that I do
48:04
hope I get to go out on my own terms and not the terms of a
48:08
decision made by an executive. If I decide at the end of 24,
48:14
that's all I want to do, then that's my terms.
48:18
If I at the end of 2028, I go, I don't want to do any more.
48:22
That's my terms. I just hope it didn't come on
48:24
the heels of the executive saying we're going to go a
48:28
different direction. Yeah, well, I'm going to say
48:31
this, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart.
48:35
I wouldn't say it if I didn't mean it.
48:37
The Hall of Fame has, you know, the media side and obviously you
48:44
you've done enough as a crew chief.
48:46
But it would be a travesty if you don't go in on the media
48:50
side because you are another Ken Squire.
48:54
Not verbiage, but. In the TV, you you, you ushered
48:59
in that that big TV deal and you've been there the longest.
49:02
And man, congratulations on the TV stuff.
49:06
I wanted to really talk to you about that because I can really
49:10
relate. And as we come down to the end
49:12
here, Larry, it looks like you're having a lot of fun with
49:16
SiriusXM radio. You and Danielle Trotta, she
49:19
loves you. You guys are a good team.
49:22
We hear you. Is is the radio as much fun as
49:28
the TV? It It is for completely
49:31
different reasons. Yeah, you you know, again,
49:34
you've done radio, you've done television, so you can relate to
49:37
everything. I'm putting out there.
49:40
TV You have to be so concise. You know you got a that's saying
49:47
30 seconds, 15 seconds. Wrap it.
49:51
Yeah, we can expand. We there's no script.
49:56
You know, the only thing we're locked into is is grown from
50:00
11:00 to 1:00 Eastern Monday through Friday.
50:02
We have a hard break at 12 noon. So we have to be wrapping by the
50:06
end and we have to wrap before the end of the show.
50:08
Outside of that, it's, it's very fluid and you can expand on
50:12
things. But the biggest thing I like
50:14
about doing it, Kenny, is even during the Fox party, especially
50:20
now that I'm not at the track, which is a huge challenge, the
50:25
radio show keeps me engaged there.
50:28
I don't. I never interview anybody,
50:30
whether it's a driver, a crew chief, a engineer, a competition
50:35
director or owner, that I won't learn something.
50:38
And especially in the NBC part of the season where we're not
50:42
doing the races, it keeps me engaged.
50:45
And then especially this time of year, the offseason, it even
50:49
keeps me engaged more. So yeah, I love doing it.
50:53
I have fun. Daniel and I've been doing it
50:55
for over 5 years and hopefully we'll be doing it for another 5
50:58
plus years. But it keeps me engaged.
51:01
I could not imagine, but everybody's different.
51:05
I could not imagine doing Fox from mid February to mid June
51:09
and going I'll see you next February, I'll be back.
51:13
I couldn't imagine. Does does being on radio all the
51:19
time? I guess like you said, it gives
51:22
you so much more knowledge. Have you ever used an interview
51:26
from radio as knowledge on TV? Maybe once or two times.
51:31
Many times, No. I've used stuff from TV on
51:37
radio. Yeah, no question.
51:39
And you know I I try to find the balance.
51:42
You know, I will even say I talked to Kyle Larson on our
51:45
Sirius radio show last week and he told me now I got to be
51:50
careful. I can't just wear that out.
51:53
But I always try to give credit where credit's due.
51:56
But absolutely Kenny it. It would be probably hundreds of
51:59
times over the last five years that I've used something from an
52:03
interview on Sirius the week before to something on a race
52:08
broadcast or pre race show on the weekend on Fox or FS1.
52:14
You're like Dale Earnhardt Junior for me.
52:16
You're so easy for me to talk to.
52:18
We're already in an hour, so we everybody says Kenny quit.
52:21
Quit saying you need to hurry up, but well, you don't need to
52:24
hurry up for my sake, but I want to stay within your limits.
52:27
Yeah, right. So here we go.
52:29
It's not rapid fire, but it's basically something that I, I
52:35
need for you to answer, OK. So I watched you win.
52:41
We all, we all know early, you know. 15 years ago, you tried
52:45
getting your son, Brandon Reynolds, you know, into the
52:48
sport as a race car driver. I've watched you win with him.
52:53
I know he's a great man. I know he's a great spider
52:58
nowadays. But just give me a comment on
53:01
going. I watched you go to Victor Lane
53:03
with your son. What was that like watching him
53:09
and being there in his win in 2012 at Talladega?
53:13
Yeah, it goes pretty darn close to those two Daytona 500 wins
53:16
that I got to win because remember, I won there in 92 as a
53:19
crew chief. He was one years old.
53:22
He with his arms in Victory Lane wrapped up in a baby blanket. 20
53:27
years later, he drives a ARCA car in the Victory Lane.
53:31
I'm telling you that was the ultimate as a as a dad that has
53:35
a son that races. Yeah, that is awesome.
53:37
OK, let's let's this is now. I'm going to put you right in
53:42
the category with race car drivers and I've decided to ask
53:45
you the same thing that I asked the drivers.
53:48
It's three things. So your opinion and I know you
53:53
won't get yourself in trouble and I tell all the drivers,
53:56
don't get yourself in trouble. What is your opinion on NASCAR
54:00
today? I'm very happy with where we're
54:04
at. If you and I had been doing this
54:06
show 10 years ago, I went Kenny, we're in trouble.
54:11
I don't, I don't know where we're at, but I think the
54:13
leadership, the direction, there's always things.
54:18
It's like I said earlier about my crew chief career and
54:21
broadcast career, the constant pursuit of perfection being
54:25
better the next time. But I tell you as far as our
54:29
leadership right now with Steve Phelps and and Ben Kennedy and
54:34
and Steve O'Donnell and in the competition group in this car,
54:39
I, I, I really like where we're headed.
54:41
They're thinking outside the box.
54:44
It's not just rinse and repeat. You know the guys in the shop
54:47
used to go wonder when the new schedule is going to come out.
54:50
I said well just go get the one off the wall from last year and
54:53
just run it through the cockpit. They might move a few tracks
54:58
around but to see what we're doing it it's it's it's pretty
55:02
amazing and I and I it's not the corporate line.
55:07
I I, I This is water, not NASCAR.
55:10
Kool-aid. Yeah, I love where we're at
55:12
right now. I really think we're in a good
55:14
place. I think a lot of people like
55:17
that after watching even Formula One out there in Vegas.
55:20
So the next thing, your opinion on this new Next Gen. car, still
55:26
some work to do. But you know what?
55:28
I've always said, Kenny, it's not a problem as long as people
55:34
acknowledge we've got work to do and NASCAR acknowledges at the
55:38
short tracks, at the road courses, we've got work to do.
55:42
But it's the reason they're taking six teams to Phoenix here
55:45
in a couple weeks and going to spend 2 days.
55:48
And it's it's an open for, yeah, they've got an agenda, but they
55:53
they're not afraid to adjust that agenda to make the racing
55:56
better at the short tracks in the road courses.
55:59
It's not terrible, but we know it could be better.
56:02
But to me, what it's done for the racing at the intermediates
56:06
and of course the racing at the Super speedways, we could take
56:09
covered wagons and it would be good racing there.
56:13
But I like the but you know what?
56:15
Without this car, without this car, could 2311 and track house
56:21
racing and college racing, Could they have come in here and in
56:25
three years be winning races? No.
56:29
You know it and I know it. Could Michael McDowell go win a
56:33
race? Probably not.
56:35
Could Ricky Stenhouse Junior win the Daytona 500?
56:38
Probably not. The fact I I think the numbers
56:42
speak for themselves when you look at all the different number
56:46
of winners and the people that's winning these races.
56:48
Now that probably wouldn't have happened before this next Gen.
56:51
card it. It really is amazing how when
56:55
something starts that is so new. So many people complain just
57:01
devastating blow and then years later we say to ourselves man,
57:06
what a great move and you're you're right about that.
57:10
So very last thing we we saw record penalties, you know,
57:15
maybe not the one car but $400,000 to Rick Hendrick.
57:21
What is your opinion on the way NASCAR now is governing fines
57:25
and penalties? Thank the good Lord I'm a
57:28
broadcaster now, not a crew chief.
57:30
I I'd be eaten out of a trash can and I I'd probably never be
57:33
at the racetrack. I'd be suspended indefinitely,
57:36
forever. I think it's a necessity.
57:39
Ken Kenny, you know the owners tow NASCAR if you're going to
57:45
put us through the workload and the cost of completely building
57:50
a brand new car, obsolete in everything they had.
57:54
I mean, everything maybe, but the racing seat save us from our
57:59
self. Don't let us tinker.
58:02
Let us put these cars together. We still got a big toolbox to
58:06
work with. There's adjustments of plenty on
58:09
this car. It's maybe not as big as the the
58:12
toolbox was on the old car, but there's still plenty of
58:14
adjustments. But save us from our self
58:17
because you know Kenny and I know if they ever crack that
58:21
door and let them start tinkering with something, the
58:25
cows get out of the barn and then the next thing you know
58:28
they're completely out of the pasture and it it's it's Carter
58:31
Block and and the spending the money to develop stuff is just
58:36
going to be off the chart. So I think the only way they can
58:39
do it is they have to rule with an iron fist and they have to
58:43
make these penalties substantial enough that that crew chief,
58:46
that engineer or even that owner says don't be going down that
58:50
road, do not be doing it. I I just, I hate to see it for
58:55
these guys that get suspended and these fines, these
58:57
penalties, but I think it's an absolute necessity if they want
59:01
to keep the cows in the barn on this next Gen. car.
59:05
Yeah, well, Larry McReynolds, look at you, buddy.
59:08
I guess I stole that one from Howard Stern.
59:11
I listen to him and I I say look at you.
59:13
I think because we're of age now and you truly have done it all.
59:17
Some people say Kenny Wallace, you always say you've done it
59:20
all but. I know there's a lot to do, but
59:23
you have have done it all you you've won races, you're at the
59:27
at the top echelon of of TV and radio.
59:32
So Larry, congratulations and I want to remind everybody that we
59:36
are in podcast form and buddy we're showing up there now and
59:40
myself and Charlie are really excited about that.
59:42
So remember everybody, you can listen to Larry Mack.
59:46
On your way to work on Spotify or iTunes, and we know this is
59:50
long. So on your way back home, finish
59:53
listening to Larry McReynolds. And Larry, thank you for being
59:57
on Kenny conversation. Well, just two quick things,
1:00:00
Kenny. Again, as I said at the very
1:00:02
beginning, very flattered, very honored when you reached out to
1:00:06
me to be a part of it because. Yeah, you and I were able to
1:00:10
work together. It was under some not great
1:00:13
situation because Ernie Irving was injured back in 1994, but
1:00:19
always enjoyed those. Those you you were perfect for
1:00:22
who we needed to kind of give us a pick me up a little bit and we
1:00:26
went and had some pretty good runs too.
1:00:28
Good old top five after spinning Dale Earnhardt out at
1:00:31
Martinsville. Oh my God, yeah, 10 at the
1:00:33
Southern 500. Don't make me go on, but Larry,
1:00:36
you did me a solid. Martinsville was awesome.
1:00:40
You made a dream come true in mind that Texaco, Havilland
1:00:42
Ford. I will never forget my time in
1:00:44
your car. Well, more than anything, even
1:00:48
though we only got to work together for that short period
1:00:50
of time on a race car, we got to work together for a longer
1:00:53
period of time. Our friendship will be soever.
1:00:56
I'm proud to call you a friend. And then the biggest thing is if
1:01:00
there's anybody out there that does not think dreams can come
1:01:04
true and people try to tell you that's not possible, you can't
1:01:09
do that. I am walking, living, breathing
1:01:12
proof because, Kenny, I'm a guy from Birmingham that I barely
1:01:17
got a high school diploma. In fact, I had to pay a few
1:01:20
teachers and I think they get out of here, you're gone, you're
1:01:24
out of here. But I am walking living proof
1:01:27
that if you want it bad enough, you believe in it and you stay
1:01:30
after it. Absolutely.
1:01:32
Dreams can come true. And I agree.
1:01:34
All right everybody. Until the next Kenny
1:01:36
conversation, we just keep on rolling.
1:01:39
See y'all next time.