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Esoteric Ebb · Awoken Game Club Podcast

0:03
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Awoken Game Club.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: How are you doing, Patrick? I'm doing all right, Ben.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: How are you? I'm doing well.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm doing well.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: This is interesting.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: So because of like life events, we're recording this, I guess like two weeks,
0:20
SPEAKER_01: three weeks after both of us finished Esoteric Ebb.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Is that the right...
0:25
SPEAKER_00: That sounds right. It's been a while.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: We were nervous about finishing, so I actually kind of rushed it.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Only finished it, or actually finished it halfway through the month.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I feel like this is almost an interesting experiment to see how much
0:39
SPEAKER_01: of a game really sticks with you.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: Because I think our notes will probably share our actual emotions right when we finished it.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: And then two or three weeks later, we can kind of reflect on which parts have stuck with us.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: If you're just joining us, Awoken Game Club is a monthly video game book club.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: We play indie games that strike our fancy and then debrief, debate,
1:01
SPEAKER_01: and celebrate after playing throughout the month.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: Follow us on Substack to get notifications, see Patrick's art, and chat with us.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: Our game next month, which is going to be...
1:13
SPEAKER_01: And then treat this like any monthly book club where all the attendees have had their time.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: It's going to be packed full of spoilers for Esoteric Ebb,
1:22
SPEAKER_01: which is absolutely a game that is spoilers.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: Like that's kind of the whole thing.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: If you're worried about spoilers,
1:29
SPEAKER_01: this episode is evergreen and come back and listen after you've played.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: And with that, Esoteric Eb was one of my suggestions that I had for you this month
1:39
SPEAKER_01: and you picked it.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, walk us through why you picked it, what you'd heard about it previously and all that.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great question.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I didn't know too much about it.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: I also, I think, had it on my short list of games to consider recommending.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: And when I was reviewing all the trailers, I mean, this game just had DICE,
2:03
SPEAKER_00: clear D&D inspiration, and honestly had echoes of a game that I had not played
2:09
SPEAKER_00: but was very interested in trying one day, Disco Elysium.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, well, this is the perfect time to Kind of get best -of -all worlds.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: That perfect cocktail
2:21
SPEAKER_00: as to why I
2:25
SPEAKER_00: chose Esoteric Heb.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I like that.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: I hadn't even thought about that.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: How There are other D&D adaptations to games,
2:44
SPEAKER_01: and you're definitely someone who's played the behemoth that is Baldur's Gate 3.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, actually, I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on that.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, similar to myself, this was on my radar.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: A game podcast that I love, MinMax,
2:59
SPEAKER_01: they sang its praises when it came out as just being very approachable
3:03
SPEAKER_01: and really well-made and very true to D&D, which I think...
3:10
SPEAKER_01: It's fun to talk about.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: It's fun to talk about with you as a D&D DM.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know fully how it would stick with me.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: So I think you mentioned Disco Elysium.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: This game definitely wears Disco Elysium's inspiration on its sleeve.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: I think Disco Elysium...
3:33
SPEAKER_01: Evolved the CRPG genre, which is probably the only CRPG,
3:40
SPEAKER_01: which I had to Google it before this computer role playing game,
3:43
SPEAKER_01: which makes like it's kind of a kind of an old silly genre title
3:49
SPEAKER_01: or classic role playing game.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: Disco is probably the only one of those that I've ever done.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: This might be complete ignorance,
3:57
SPEAKER_01: but I don't know if they invented like dice rolls and dialogue as like a mechanic,
4:02
SPEAKER_01: but it's used heavily in this game and it's super effective.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: I think I do want to just highlight some of the research I was doing about the game
4:13
SPEAKER_01: before this, before we get into it, because I was curious.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: So I guess the developers, Christopher Bodegaard,
4:21
SPEAKER_01: He went to school for games writing,
4:26
SPEAKER_01: but did a little bit of study of design and programming
4:29
SPEAKER_01: because he knew he would kind of need to to make it in the games industry.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: He started working on this project.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: So from that, I learned his background is writing,
4:37
SPEAKER_01: which makes sense because this game has half a million words of dialogue.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: Holy smokes. Yeah.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: And he started working on it in 2018, which just...
4:51
SPEAKER_01: It never surprises me, but holy cow, do games take a long time to make.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: So he started working in 2018.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: He went full time in 2022.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: And that was kind of on accident, just because his game contracts were drying up.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: So while he was actively applying, he was working on this game.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: And in 2024,
5:11
SPEAKER_01: PC Gamer raved about a demo either that he sent or that they played
5:17
SPEAKER_01: of this game, which got him offers from five different publishers in early 2024
5:24
SPEAKER_01: to help him make the game.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: And he used that budget to hire a bunch of collaborators and to complete the game.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: So what a journey.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: Just another one of these indie games.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Just Hollywood stories of working on something for eight years
5:41
SPEAKER_01: and the first game you ever make is just an absolute banger.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: Blueprints, Stardew Valley, it's all the above.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: I did similar research and I found his website very cool.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: If you snoop around there, I loved the way his inspirations were laid out.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: And a part of me is like, I want to do that too.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: And how, one, his top 10 or 15 games. 11.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: It was his top 11.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: I have it also up on my screen.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: And then also with all of those, the games that inspire Esoteric Ebb,
6:23
SPEAKER_00: he like breaks it down how each one like inspired the different aspects to it.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, what a, what a amazing way.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: And also these games are crazy diverse, right?
6:32
SPEAKER_00: It's just like, it's not all CRPGs.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: It's just, it's a little bit of everything.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: And I think also even there's Seinfeld's on here.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, which you can see that you can see that inspiration from For fans
6:48
SPEAKER_01: of the craft and people that want to go deep, it's so fun to read that.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: It really adds to the experience.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: And he even in the credits of the game shouts out some of his inspirations as well
7:01
SPEAKER_01: after you've played the whole thing.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Highly recommend checking it out.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: I love starting with just gut.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: What did you think of it? Did you like it?
7:15
SPEAKER_01: Did you hate it?
7:16
SPEAKER_00: I think I loved it.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: I had... Obviously I'm a big D&D fan,
7:23
SPEAKER_00: and watching a game try to wrangle the...
7:29
SPEAKER_00: The freedom and the player agency of D&D, of letting it, you know,
7:35
SPEAKER_00: letting the player express themselves how they want to without coming off corny
7:41
SPEAKER_00: or even too guard, really, is almost like my first gut instinct of like, well,
7:45
SPEAKER_00: how free can we be?
7:47
SPEAKER_00: There are bounds in a game.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: And so that's the first thing that I think really, as I sat with it,
7:53
SPEAKER_00: reflected and impressed me long after.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: So many games I think about with this idea of choice, the default is Mass Effect,
8:04
SPEAKER_00: which ultimately turns into are you
8:08
SPEAKER_00: a Boy Scout or are you a sociopath?
8:12
SPEAKER_00: When there's a game that allows for nuance and choice in both dialogue and action,
8:18
SPEAKER_00: and also when it dangles a carrot of like, Why would they let me try this?
8:23
SPEAKER_00: Why would they let me lick the spider or run down this pipe?
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Or pet the giant seagull.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is really good.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: And so I think as I sit back and reflect on it, I'm just like,
8:37
SPEAKER_00: what a special thing to just be able to uniquely keep in my memory banks.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: But what about you?
8:47
SPEAKER_01: I also, I loved it. I really liked it.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: I think I had some travel this month,
8:53
SPEAKER_01: which was helpful for me because I could kind of get stuck in.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: I think the way that I've been playing these games of the month has kind of been
9:02
SPEAKER_01: in like 30 to 45 minute sessions at the end of each day,
9:06
SPEAKER_01: like after work and after family time.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like Dench Attack and stuff like that.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: But I had like a four hour flight.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: And I had it over like three days, or maybe even it was two days.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: So I played like eight hours in like two days.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: And it was like, it helped me get lost.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's, I get why that there's not a lot of games in this genre,
9:31
SPEAKER_01: because it is wildly challenging to write half a million words of dialogue and make
9:37
SPEAKER_01: that feel cohesive and good.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: But This game, I think, as much as Disco Elysium,
9:44
SPEAKER_01: shows the promise of why the genre is so compelling.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: Because I just relished getting lost in a fantasy novel.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: And games,
9:57
SPEAKER_01: in a way that's just very different than a more scripted experience.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: Every single piece of information and progression, you have to just physically...
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Interact with the game to unlock and you feel like it's all on you
10:13
SPEAKER_01: and you could go anywhere and do anything.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: It's like it's like everyone always talks about how non structured Breath
10:20
SPEAKER_01: of the Wild is and how much of a revelation that was.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like this is for narrative,
10:27
SPEAKER_01: what open world games are for like exploration in terms of just it just washes
10:34
SPEAKER_01: over you. And that's kind of like the whole experience
10:38
SPEAKER_00: I agree. And I think it's accentuated and honestly only for the better
10:44
SPEAKER_00: with the I don't even know how to properly describe this,
10:48
SPEAKER_00: but like this balancing of a time constraint and you have X days
10:52
SPEAKER_00: before this election and then giving the player agency on it's not
10:57
SPEAKER_00: the actual physical traversal that is ticking down the clock.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: It's new dialogue.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: And I just found that such a both refreshing and in what I would consider
11:09
SPEAKER_00: a good way, a stressful way to like really put on the player
11:14
SPEAKER_00: that the decisions you make in terms of where you want
11:17
SPEAKER_00: to pursue trying something new are really meaningful as someone who likes
11:23
SPEAKER_00: to play these open world games and also 100% a story.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: I can almost turn my brain off knowing, OK, well, I'll do everything in this one region.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: I'll go over there next and do everything. There's no urgency.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: There's no stakes, especially when there's a game that's trying to have stakes
11:43
SPEAKER_00: of everyone says memes of like if we're talking about Legend of Zelda.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, go save Princess Zelda.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: But meanwhile, I'm like building motorcycles and But in a game like this,
11:53
SPEAKER_00: it is really refreshing to have a compelling reason to be engaged with the story.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: The mechanics that they used were, I thought, very unique and incredible.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: And thrilling.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: I just think dice, turns out dice are freaking awesome.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: You know this as a long-time D&D
12:15
SPEAKER_01: player and board gamer,
12:17
SPEAKER_01: but it's just such a cheat code to just show the dice rolling on the screen
12:23
SPEAKER_01: and just beads of sweat as you're trying not
12:27
SPEAKER_01: to die or fail this romantic overture.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: It's just like...
12:36
SPEAKER_01: That's stupid compelling.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: Rolling dice.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: Rolling dice is so compelling.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: The dichotomy of my body and my feelings when I would roll a dice
12:45
SPEAKER_00: and I have like plus 10 and I get a 25, the smugness on my face where I'm just like,
12:52
SPEAKER_00: you donkeys, like you can't even, not even close.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: And then when I get one below, I'm just like, this game is busted.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: I hate this.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: But it's so good.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: It's authentic.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: And the stakes,
13:09
SPEAKER_00: the stakes are so high and it makes every role like thrilling.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: I also think Disco Elysium is a game that I really enjoyed and respected
13:20
SPEAKER_01: and I could not finish it.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: I think I put 15 to 20 hours in it twice.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: First time was a playthrough, like long distance, which I think that you can say,
13:35
SPEAKER_01: well, that's going to fall off.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: It was during COVID time.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: And then the second time I was playing by myself and...
13:42
SPEAKER_01: I was enjoying it the whole time and I just lost Steam.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Disco Elysium is so academic and philosophical
13:52
SPEAKER_01: and gritty
13:57
SPEAKER_01: and I guess I'll just say academic again
14:02
SPEAKER_01: that I do think that it's a bit more dry
14:06
SPEAKER_01: than Esoteric Eb and just not nearly as...
14:12
SPEAKER_01: And I guess that's why I didn't finish it.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: I really can't believe I didn't finish it either time because I really enjoyed it.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: But the thing, one of the huge things that everyone loved about this Golisium was
14:23
SPEAKER_01: the ability to cosplay as different political leanings.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: Like people just were absolutely obsessed with that,
14:31
SPEAKER_01: which is actually just fascinating to me because I'm like, why?
14:35
SPEAKER_01: Like why are game, like no other game tries to be,
14:39
SPEAKER_01: maybe that's why is no other game tries to be political in any way
14:44
SPEAKER_01: or lets you like be a communist or be a anarchist or,
14:48
SPEAKER_01: and so I think people just kind of like Mass Effect where they liked kind
14:52
SPEAKER_01: of pretending to be a sociopath.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: It's very interesting that a certain portion of gamers,
15:01
SPEAKER_01: and I think it just speaks to the diversity of the gamer,
15:04
SPEAKER_01: but that they want to get stuck into labor unions
15:11
SPEAKER_01: and royalists and
15:13
SPEAKER_00: capitalism
15:15
SPEAKER_01: and communism and socialism.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: I think that was just one of the revelations of Disco Elysium that...
15:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't think, and this is my hot take, is that it didn't need to be in this game.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: I didn't really feel like...
15:31
SPEAKER_01: I felt like I was cosplaying as a Disco Elysium player every time
15:34
SPEAKER_01: the election came up and who you're voting for and who you're aligned with.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: It was certainly all well-written and allowed me to engage in politics,
15:45
SPEAKER_01: but it just felt like a copy and paste of how I did it in Disco Elysium.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: For me, I liked the fantastical stuff more, like the wild creatures and...
16:00
SPEAKER_01: The world building and the interpersonal relationships,
16:04
SPEAKER_01: all of that was just the part of Esoteric Ev that I liked a lot more
16:08
SPEAKER_01: than the political piece.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a good point.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: And I do see that the people who enjoy this genre, the CRPG,
16:18
SPEAKER_00: the people who like to read movies,
16:21
SPEAKER_00: They are the ones who are likely discovering an instance to...
16:25
SPEAKER_00: I really like the analogy you mentioned earlier.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: This is their open world game.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: They can do what they want in a genre
16:33
SPEAKER_00: or a system that you often can't really replicate in.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: And I can see why, since obviously Disco Elysium was a huge inspiration
16:43
SPEAKER_00: for this game, what I will give obviously good credit for,
16:46
SPEAKER_00: because we do agree that it was very well written,
16:49
SPEAKER_00: is that When you design political systems and philosophy
16:53
SPEAKER_00: in a fantasy setting, man,
16:56
SPEAKER_00: as someone who has tried to DM and build a world, it is...
17:00
SPEAKER_00: You are obviously pulling echoes from IRL,
17:03
SPEAKER_00: but when you are trying to apply it to a fantasy race that has faced...
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes, what kind of genocide from an all-powerful being?
17:14
SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, now we're really stress-testing a fantasy writer to see
17:19
SPEAKER_00: if you can nail this because the motivations of all the people in your world rely
17:23
SPEAKER_00: on this. And it's like, unfortunately,
17:27
SPEAKER_00: this will lean into one of my drawbacks with this game is there half
17:31
SPEAKER_00: a million words is a lot of words.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the philosophy, I was just like, Especially if it wasn't my philosophy.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: And I know I should be open-minded, but I was like, no, I'm already an Asgolist.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't need to read why Free Striderism is better.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I'm skip, skip, skip, skip, skip.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: And that's my relationship with a lot of it.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: It would be interesting to go play Disco Elysium after this.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Because, yeah, it is so much more of that.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: Which I think I liked for...
18:08
SPEAKER_01: Disco
18:15
SPEAKER_01: Elysium also has
18:16
SPEAKER_01: a similar mystery where you wake up
18:19
SPEAKER_01: and you can't remember what happened and whatnot.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: Is the time mechanic also advanced through dialogue, just like Disco Elysium?
18:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes. Yeah, there's a day-night cycle.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: It's not so much like...
18:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't think Disco Elysium...
18:36
SPEAKER_01: I think it was more like come at dusk or come at a certain time of day.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: I don't really remember the like week being essential,
18:44
SPEAKER_01: but the day night cycle and having to go to bed was part of Disco Elysium,
18:48
SPEAKER_01: which the first time I played Esoteric Ab my first day,
18:52
SPEAKER_01: it was like 4am before I was like, am I supposed to go find a bed?
18:57
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I still hadn't found or talked to where my bed was or talked to that person.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I think I need to go find out where I'm supposed to sleep.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: So there were a lot of D&D and CRPG mechanics
19:11
SPEAKER_01: that they did not tutorialize very much.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: And I think I luckily
19:18
SPEAKER_01: had just enough to parse together.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I cast a spell for the first half of the game.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: I just couldn't.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: Remember that I needed to go like usually in like a turn based combat game.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: It's just such an obvious like counter
19:36
SPEAKER_01: or like I'm thinking like Pokemon battles like deflect
19:39
SPEAKER_01: or like claw like versus this, which you really you've the immersiveness.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: You need to think that this might be helpful for me here and I'm going to use it.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: There's going to be any prompting.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: I don't even know like what's going to happen. Yeah.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: It's also tucked away in the bottom left and it would,
19:59
SPEAKER_00: there was some at least like colors or flashing that indicated you could use it.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: But honestly, it really, the obvious ones.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: Those were a little bit more obvious and especially when it prompted
20:12
SPEAKER_00: where a companion or your internal mind was like, you speak with animals.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: But honestly, there was a few instances where you could try something
20:21
SPEAKER_00: and I'm thinking of like the Grease spell that it worked and it, you know,
20:28
SPEAKER_00: reduced the DCs often.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: But I do think if you have spent time in D&D,
20:34
SPEAKER_00: the second I got the spell and I want to say this is something I pointed out.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: I was surprised how much they used
20:41
SPEAKER_00: an actual language of the spells and names
20:45
SPEAKER_00: for creatures and honestly some of the lore.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: And a part of me was like, wait, are they allowed to do that?
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, I know there's a few things out in the world where you can't use kind
20:56
SPEAKER_00: of like how Lord of the Rings, like you can never use a hobbit.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: So indeed, they're called halflings, but also in this game, they're called halflings.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: There's a few words that are D&D exclusive that you can never actually use,
21:10
SPEAKER_00: like like a beholder or I think even I don't know how Stranger Things got away
21:14
SPEAKER_00: with it, but like a mind flayer, those are all like Wizards of the Coast owned,
21:19
SPEAKER_00: I think. But I was very impressed with how they used D&D.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, clearly this person loves D&D, both in the game,
21:26
SPEAKER_00: and I think he had Neverwinter Nights as one of his inspirations in Baldur's Gate.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: So yeah,
21:34
SPEAKER_00: I thought pretty well executed for all that you could do without being Baldur's Gate 3.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: And I'm guessing it's a D&D.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: There's so many ways in which D&D...
21:46
SPEAKER_01: Did accentuate the gameplay like an example is rolling to behold people.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: Is that a D&D thing?
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Yes, but no, because that could be like an insight check,
22:01
SPEAKER_00: but you can't like roll and like learn everything about them like on a spreadsheet.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: There's like some spells that you can do where you can learn all their resistances
22:11
SPEAKER_00: and stuff like that if you stare at them for a period of time.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: I will say the funny part about Behold is I literally used that only once.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: I did not know that feature existed.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: And it's funny because you can't do that in D&D.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I didn't even think about like clicking on people to behold them.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: I only used it like at the very end at literal God.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: I was like, because I wanted to figure that out.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what is this Behold button?
22:42
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What?
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Wait, could you do this with everyone?
22:47
SPEAKER_00: And there was a feat that says you get advantage on behold checks.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I don't know what that is. Whatever.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: That's so like this happens to me all the time because, yeah,
22:58
SPEAKER_01: we always talk about I'm like oh I didn't know you could do that.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: I think I'd be held every single NPC in the game.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: Like before every single conversation,
23:09
SPEAKER_01: I would size them up with a behold and get a dice roll and learn some background
23:14
SPEAKER_01: and then kind of use that flavor to influence the conversation.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I raw dogged every single NPC, bro.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Wow. Because I was like, this is so brilliant because when I would do a low roll,
23:26
SPEAKER_01: I would be like, oh, like this person's like a closed book.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm kind of going in blind.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: And then when I would high roll, I would be like, oh,
23:34
SPEAKER_01: like I know this person before I even talked to them.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: And I just found that like that delta
23:40
SPEAKER_01: of insight to make it got me kind
23:45
SPEAKER_01: of anticipatory even going into the conversations.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: And then just compared to 100 % of every other video game I've ever played
23:54
SPEAKER_01: where it's like press X to examine or like, and you just get the full thing.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: Like it just added nuance and gray area to most of all of my dialogue.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: And I just really enjoyed that mechanic.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: That's super interesting.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: A lot of it was a lot of it was like really well written,
24:11
SPEAKER_01: like super well written backstory.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I mean, I think we could I mean,
24:15
SPEAKER_01: it's a good time to talk about the writing in the game because I obviously
24:19
SPEAKER_01: if the writing is bad, no one plays this game.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: It all falls apart.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I thought I thought the writing was was good.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: And my favorite part was the sense of humor personally.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: The sense of humor plus just
24:34
SPEAKER_00: the D&D part is so funny because there are so many.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: If we're just going to talk strictly talk about humor, the writing team is obvious.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: So so like here we need to input as many intrusive thoughts as we can
24:50
SPEAKER_00: because they're going to engage with it.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: And if they engage with it, we have to honor consequences to their actions and to.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: Offer that many strange things where you just tempt the player
25:04
SPEAKER_00: and then they pursue it, which I did a few times.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: I had a pillar fall on top of me that instantly put me on a death saving throw
25:09
SPEAKER_00: and I was like, yeah, yeah, of course, if you try to lift the pillar and then,
25:14
SPEAKER_00: of course, when you have the inner monologues being like, why did you do that?
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you gave me an option.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: That's a very Disco Elysium thing is the inner monologue.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: Like half the dialogue in Disco Elysium is inner monologue and it's awesome.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Is it also different parts of your personality in the same way?
25:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, see, that's so creative that he made it the ability scores in D&D.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in Disco Elysium,
25:41
SPEAKER_01: it's like your limbic system versus like your heart versus your soul
25:45
SPEAKER_01: or like it's like different.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: Kind of personas within you.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Kind of adapted it.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, because most of my memorable moments that I wrote down are just times in which I laughed.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: And I think like, I just think that getting that mental relief of like
26:11
SPEAKER_01: the serious plot,
26:13
SPEAKER_01: it's almost like Lord of the Rings is kind of a great example
26:19
SPEAKER_01: of a movie that is very serious and has high stakes.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: But because it's so long and arduous,
26:25
SPEAKER_01: the moments of levity really bring charm and make you really fall in love
26:31
SPEAKER_01: with the story. And I think this game does it the same.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: I think there was a time I wrote down that there's shrines around the game
26:40
SPEAKER_01: and you can contemplate different Components of the story
26:44
SPEAKER_01: to just have it like resummarize to you so you can kind of rebalance,
26:48
SPEAKER_01: reorient yourself.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: And one time I saw this like prompt of like contemplate milk.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Did you see that?
26:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't 100% know.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I did, but I don't remember where.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like contemplated milk and it was just like, it's milk.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: What do you want to know about it?
27:08
SPEAKER_00: It was so random.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: And it just made me laugh so hard.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: And there's a voting card exchange.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: I just wrote down voting card exchange. It's hilarious.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't even remember what the exchange was.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's also in the game, you can ask people who they're voting for.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they're cosmic entities.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: And they're just like, Do you understand what you're asking?
27:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to vote.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm not like a, what's it called?
27:45
SPEAKER_00: A corporeal entity.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, dude,
27:48
SPEAKER_01: what was it called when you internalized a quest line
27:54
SPEAKER_01: to get some benefit?
27:56
SPEAKER_00: Take root?
27:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: I was like, dude, I already took root whenever I asked people the election I heal.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: So I have to ask you.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: Which we should talk about that branching quest wheel.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: That's something that takes this game.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: The art is very attractive.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: The dialogue is amazing.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: But the visuals in this game are just very well created.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: Like the UI and that, I guess I want to talk about that branching quest wheel thing.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: Because I just thought it didn't feel like a cookie cutter spreadsheet game made
28:28
SPEAKER_01: with stock game engine stuff.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: Like UI templates, everything felt cohesive and handcrafted and elegant.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: What did you think of that branching Quest wheel?
28:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I liked it a lot.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: I think with a game like this where there is no like like you said,
28:49
SPEAKER_00: a journal that has do this next.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: It was almost like as you interacted with the world,
28:57
SPEAKER_00: you would get a small update on like three different things because you advanced
29:02
SPEAKER_00: the main storyline, but you also advance your personal relationship with this person
29:06
SPEAKER_00: and you could like track all of those
29:09
SPEAKER_00: and then Like it was very cute how it would update
29:15
SPEAKER_00: a little timestamp at the bottom
29:17
SPEAKER_00: of just like here's your last major update to this thing
29:21
SPEAKER_00: and it felt honestly more intimate
29:25
SPEAKER_00: and personable than a cold quest tracker
29:28
SPEAKER_00: and a wayfinder.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: There was no wayfinder in this game.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: There was like Honestly, the world felt so big at first, but honestly,
29:37
SPEAKER_00: as you played it more and more,
29:39
SPEAKER_00: the streets felt very familiar
29:43
SPEAKER_00: and it did eventually turn like how you interacted
29:47
SPEAKER_00: with the map, your quest, the wheel, your items, your stats and the people.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: I thought it all came together very well by the end of like the 10 out of 10
29:59
SPEAKER_00: to 15 hour experience.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: I think they do give it to you all up front,
30:06
SPEAKER_01: like all of the map
30:10
SPEAKER_01: and the quest wheel and the wiki and all these things.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: So it was a little bit daunting.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: I think I spent my first two days pretty overwhelmed.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you would change it,
30:25
SPEAKER_01: but I think Disco did a better job of You do a little bit more backtracking
30:33
SPEAKER_01: when the world is smaller to kind of solidify your bearings.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: And then you're kind of as soon as you're adding districts of the town
30:43
SPEAKER_01: into the world, you're able to kind
30:46
SPEAKER_01: of absorb it versus I feel like my first day I just like ran through everything once
30:51
SPEAKER_01: and I was like totally lost.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Very overwhelming at first.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I don't know.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I felt like the game was going to take care of me and I was going to figure it out.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: And then by day three or four,
31:06
SPEAKER_01: with enough backtracking and enough kind of looking at the map and the quest lines
31:10
SPEAKER_01: that I'm supposed to be doing, I was like, okay, I'm getting it.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: It's all starting to fit inside my head.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I loved
31:21
SPEAKER_01: the gotta go deeper map progression,
31:25
SPEAKER_01: which isn't really...
31:28
SPEAKER_01: It's a good way of disguising loading screens, right?
31:34
SPEAKER_01: It's not like...
31:36
SPEAKER_01: I think disco, there are buildings that you go into, but it's all one...
31:43
SPEAKER_01: You're on land the whole time.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: And this game, by going deeper into the city below and then deeper still,
31:51
SPEAKER_01: they could just completely flip the environment art.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: And also, there was a friction of the deeper you went, the harder it was to go even deeper.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: But the more that you needed to,
32:04
SPEAKER_01: whether it be puzzles or strength and It reminded me of Dante's Seven Layers
32:10
SPEAKER_01: of Hell.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: I just love thematically that to go further, we had to go deeper.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: And I just relished that adventure.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: I would agree because it's a dungeon crawl.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good point.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: But what is different about this in my experience was because it was a narrative.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: As someone who's dove a lot of dungeons and RPGs,
32:37
SPEAKER_00: Resource management is you can min max resource management.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: You can actively choose to not use all of your spells for the fodder enemies
32:46
SPEAKER_00: and save it all at the end.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: But in a game like this where it's more narrative,
32:50
SPEAKER_00: even the combat is very narrative and the traps and the puzzles,
32:55
SPEAKER_00: it felt you did have to utilize resources with every as someone who doesn't like
33:00
SPEAKER_00: to use resources because I'm saving it or the boss that will never come.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: And I felt pushed in a way
33:09
SPEAKER_00: that I don't often get to feel in games because I...
33:16
SPEAKER_00: After the first few instances, I was like, no,
33:18
SPEAKER_00: I need to use actual second level spells on like this meet this like encounter
33:24
SPEAKER_00: with the Minotaur giving riddles like because I'm going to die here.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm in the middle and this clearly isn't even advancing the story,
33:32
SPEAKER_00: but I need to like I need to get through this because the lock in.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: I need to lock in and I did not die.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: I never actually died.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: And I've had a few death saving throws.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: I think the Steam Achievement is tracked.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: You never actually died? No. Nice.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: I think I died like four times. Like actual died?
33:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah. Oh shit, okay. A load of old save.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah. Okay.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, a couple of times were like,
33:57
SPEAKER_01: I died in like the first five minutes by petting
33:59
SPEAKER_01: the giant seagull till it killed me.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: I was trying to get some payoff of taming the seagull or just seeing what would happen.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: What are you going to kill me?
34:12
SPEAKER_01: You going to kill me?
34:13
SPEAKER_00: It just killed me.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: And then I got killed by the gelatinous cube as well.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: It was like a trap and I lost my death saving throws or I pushed too much.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember exactly.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: Most of the time I died was like taking...
34:32
SPEAKER_01: Knowing that I could save scum, so I was like pushing it a little too hard,
34:37
SPEAKER_01: but yeah, I died a few times.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: I relish, I didn't save scum, I didn't, if I lost a role, I tried to play true.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: I want to say I didn't save scum either, but if I died, I didn't start the game over, yeah.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no, you weren't.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: This wasn't a hardcore playthrough.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: I see what you mean.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: But I not often do I get to play a game and I knew I was like, this is a game I just have to.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: I have to embrace what's going to even its counter to how I play.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: And maybe we can talk a little bit.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: I'd like to talk about performance.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Because I could be wrong, but I think I played the game very well.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: I was very overpowered by the end of the game.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: And I was able to resolve
35:28
SPEAKER_00: the final battle pretty well.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: And do you have on hand your final stats?
35:38
SPEAKER_01: Where would I see that?
35:40
SPEAKER_00: You'd have to load up the game and just see.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: But what were your biggest pluses to rolls?
35:47
SPEAKER_01: So that is interesting.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: I was definitely very...
35:53
SPEAKER_01: Boring in the sense that I picked a well-rounded character
35:57
SPEAKER_01: and then I expect well-rounded most of the time.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: You're shaking your head. Oh, no.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not. Right.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: But I think, again, it comes with a comfort level with D&D where you know
36:12
SPEAKER_01: that you can get away with that.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: And I'm too scared to have a weakness that could be exploited. Oh, no.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm just a coward, Patrick.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm just an absolute coward.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: My intelligence was 3.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: I dumped that.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: I think everything was like 12 or 14 by the end.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: My dude, I was in the 32s for wisdom.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: That's insane.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: Min-maxed so much.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: I was probably like 13 to 18 on everything.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: But then before all the modifiers, I also felt overpowered by the end.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: Like I was...
36:49
SPEAKER_01: I had some amazing items from a bunch of side things.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: I had really done every piece of dialogue in the entire game, so I was quite leveled.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was pretty strong.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: I utilized a spell called Barkskin.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: Did you get that one and use that one at all?
37:13
SPEAKER_00: You had to dip into Druid a little bit.
37:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, yeah. Yeah, I did. Yeah. So I was a druid.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: I was like a pretty, yeah.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: So I didn't know like cleric druid.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: It seems like you have to be a cleric.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: The way that I understood it is the game positions you to do that,
37:33
SPEAKER_00: but you can adopt any of the other classes that D&D traditionally offers.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: Like you could just be like, Yes, you woke up as a cleric,
37:43
SPEAKER_00: but you could just like be a druid or a barbarian if you wanted to.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: That just so happened to be able to cast spells.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: I had a lot of druid stuff going on.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: Nice, nice.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: It's funny, I'm looking at our achievements and I have one of mine is get
37:56
SPEAKER_01: an instant death and I see you didn't have that one.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: I definitely did something where I just died instantly,
38:03
SPEAKER_01: like not even a death saving roll kind of thing.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: I unlocked a Meek as a companion.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: It looks like you didn't do that.
38:14
SPEAKER_00: No, from what I understand, that is the Mimic Scarf,
38:18
SPEAKER_00: and I missed it, and I'm pretty miffed.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a little secret room.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had 32 Wisdom.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how I didn't catch that.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: I was supposed to be able to catch anything.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there was a few things that I was reading that I was like, man, I just did not.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: I never got revivify.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: I never got speak with the dead.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: So I never like did the original thing that I was meant to do.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: I think here's a big one that I think I never met Darrow.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: You never met Darrow.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: So I will say, I see you have the achievement of go to sleep without speaking to him.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: Can I share my story, how I missed Darrow?
39:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's kind of similar.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: That first day is so disorienting.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: So I'm playing the game.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: I wake up. I explore.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: I visit Lady Sage Leaf.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I eventually find my way to where you meet Darrow near the tower.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: And Etir has, like, come back at between... Midnight and six.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, cool, I'll go West.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: So I'm learning lore.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm becoming a socialist.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm brushing a little bit with Druid at Druidism and it gets to 12 o'clock
39:33
SPEAKER_00: and I'm like, OK, cool. I guess I can.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, I can like mess around.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, let me mess around a little bit and that'll be fine.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: Did you ever touch an esoteric event?
39:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: Like it was like a big white thing.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: And like, so I touched one in like one of the under, not the under under city,
39:50
SPEAKER_00: but like one of the rooms.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well, this is cool. Let's touch it.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: Snell is like, dude, don't touch that.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm going to touch it, dude.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: How did you never
40:00
SPEAKER_01: die?
40:03
SPEAKER_01: I hear too. I see it.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I'll let you finish your story.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: But you had five death saving throws that you survived. I had all 11.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness. And then plus the four that you actually died.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: So I touch this thing and basically, you know,
40:24
SPEAKER_00: a flash screen and I like have a godly experience and I do this at like 1206.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: I wake up and it's just straight up says it's been six hours.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and I'm just like.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: Oopsie.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: This is the part where in another game I would save scum, but I was like, this,
40:44
SPEAKER_00: this is the game, I guess.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: Like, let's, let's, let's freaking ride this.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: Let's see what happens.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I, I didn't meet Darrow until the very end and I'm just like, he's like,
40:55
SPEAKER_00: thanks for doing all this.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, dude, I don't even know who you are. Yeah.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I talked to him that first night and then I didn't see him again until the end though.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: So I will say like, I was like looking for him at the end of each day
41:07
SPEAKER_01: and he was like, never around.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's awesome.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: That's the real game right there.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is the real game.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: Another tangent is for me, the world building was stronger than the narrative.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: You talked a little bit about the ending, and I thought the ending was just okay for me.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: I did enjoy going into the pillar and That whole scene
41:41
SPEAKER_01: with Jor and the god,
41:47
SPEAKER_01: I forgot the god's name.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: And like, oh Lord.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: I was just looking at it. Yeah.
41:53
SPEAKER_01: And basically that's the big reveal
41:57
SPEAKER_01: that Jor was trying to get that necklace
42:03
SPEAKER_01: so that he could set it off during the election
42:06
SPEAKER_01: so that he could sacrifice like 60
42:08
SPEAKER_00: people or something and bring back The God.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: I thought all of that was pretty hype.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, I enjoyed all that.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: But then After that, the election day, I was like,
42:21
SPEAKER_01: everyone's up in the plaza and you can talk to everyone.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I didn't get anything from that.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: There was no insightful conversations on election day
42:30
SPEAKER_01: and voting didn't really give me a lot of payoff that the politics was
42:35
SPEAKER_01: an important part of the game because the game just ends then after you vote.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: So I feel like the climax of the story was kind of the true ending for me.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: That's different from me for sure.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: In my notes, I call that my victory lap.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: That is the time that I spent with all the people.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: And I can just be on the other side and checking in.
43:03
SPEAKER_00: And I took my time.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: I sat there and I talked with every single person.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: I talked with every single person.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: I think that's why I was frustrated.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: Because I talked to every single person and I just didn't have any emotional...
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: Like kumbaya moments with anybody.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: It was kind of like, yeah, it's kind of like you like romancing anyone.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: I tried so many times and failed.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: I had, I had one or two where it was like,
43:28
SPEAKER_01: I should have passed the check and I failed like, uh, like, like a four or better.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: And I got like a nat two or like a not one classic.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: So I was the times that I should have successfully romance. I did not.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I got to romance a tear.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: She was like, I'll try to be human.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: For you. And I was like, yes.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: Nice. Nice.
43:53
SPEAKER_00: You want to talk about how did you get into the pillar?
43:56
SPEAKER_00: What route did you take?
43:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. I loved like that.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: You, you mentioned that there's a puzzle aspect of this game and I really, I loved the puzzles.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, like some, this is like dream puzzle creation,
44:10
SPEAKER_01: but I think on every difficult late game puzzle,
44:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, I like had to rack my brain
44:21
SPEAKER_01: against different parts of it multiple times.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: And then I got a type of solution, um,
44:32
SPEAKER_01: Like after like 15 to 20 minutes or so, basically like, like it wasn't just immediate.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: I didn't just waltz through the puzzles, but I did not bang my head against them either.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: It was like a really nice flow.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things was I just jumped down like a trash chute and died and then,
44:50
SPEAKER_01: and then survived the death saving throws.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden I had like, I was able to unlock a new area.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: Did you ever do it that way?
44:58
SPEAKER_01: Do you ever, you remember that?
45:01
SPEAKER_00: I do not.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was definitely like multiple ways
45:04
SPEAKER_01: to unlock many different progressions going deeper.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: And one time I literally unlocked it by like killing myself and then surviving
45:12
SPEAKER_01: the Death Saving Throws, which I was like, that's awesome.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: The other thing is he mentions that he was inspired by Dark Souls in terms of like...
45:25
SPEAKER_01: The, the interconnected level design, which I,
45:29
SPEAKER_01: I did really enjoy like the shortcuts, the one way doors, one way doors. Yeah.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: But then how do you get into the pillar?
45:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't remember.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's one of the way I understood it, three ways.
45:43
SPEAKER_00: The contract with the squid, the lich,
45:48
SPEAKER_00: you astral project via the lich,
45:52
SPEAKER_00: and then solving the Sphinx's puzzle and getting her boon to go in.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: Didn't solve the Sphinx's puzzle.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: Spoiler for me,
46:05
SPEAKER_00: I cheated. I could not figure it out, so I had to look it up.
46:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, nice. It was really hard.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't have gotten it.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: It was really, in my opinion.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: I got the scroll of Astral Projection and got Viskin to use it for me.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's how I did it.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: But that was like, which was cool, but I really enjoyed meeting Isk Urim,
46:29
SPEAKER_01: the snail and the, I guess it was like the, what was like the many eyed,
46:38
SPEAKER_00: The abyssal entity, the aboleth.
46:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, aboleth, monstrosity.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: I did not... What's it called?
46:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I did not...
46:51
SPEAKER_01: I guess like sell my soul to him.
46:55
SPEAKER_01: That was like one of the options of like you could,
46:58
SPEAKER_01: was that like the assassin that was trying to kill you?
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the warlock. Yeah.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: Like if you're going to be a warlock, you assign a contract with a devil,
47:07
SPEAKER_00: a fae or a eldritch entity.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: And he was definitely the eldritch or it was definitely the eldritch entity.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: The many eyed aberration. Yeah.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, aberration.
47:19
SPEAKER_00: It's abelith-coded, but aberration, yeah.
47:23
SPEAKER_00: I do love a charming eldritch entity,
47:28
SPEAKER_00: because he was not mean, he was not cruel.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: It had just the perfect amount of... And also, good interpretation on the devil lawyer.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: There was no world where this guy needed to come up with the rules...
47:45
SPEAKER_00: And the actual law
47:46
SPEAKER_00: between small random instances or scenarios.
47:52
SPEAKER_00: And he just went hard. I didn't read any of them.
47:54
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I can't burn 50 minutes with you.
47:58
SPEAKER_00: I have to go save the world.
47:59
SPEAKER_00: But like there were so many opportunities to like talk about the intricacies of like.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: If you were to die and come back, are you free from legal issues?
48:11
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, well, technically this based on this world and what this happened over a year.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: It's just nerd stuff, man.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, it is just big nerd stuff.
48:23
SPEAKER_01: What was the Sphinx puzzle?
48:26
SPEAKER_00: A Sphinx puzzle was basically you had to have two cantrips and it was
48:32
SPEAKER_00: the light cantrip and the druidcraft cantrip and you had to activate both of them
48:37
SPEAKER_00: behind her.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: And what I know it was very simple for like what it was.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:45
SPEAKER_00: And it basically go into a void space where you get one of D&D's most famous,
48:51
SPEAKER_00: what I'll call artifacts, the Deck of Many Things.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: Now that is something I did not touch because even in D&D,
48:58
SPEAKER_00: the meme is if you ever get a Deck of Many Things,
49:01
SPEAKER_00: you don't touch it because basically you draw a random card and it's like one
49:08
SPEAKER_00: of 20 catastrophic or incredible Boons
49:14
SPEAKER_00: or punishments that are campaign changing.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, this is so cute to have it because it is like a D&D meme.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: It's like a magician hands you a very pretty deck of cards.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: Just never draw.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: Just never draw from it.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: So man loves D&D.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: Who would have thought?
49:33
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
49:35
SPEAKER_01: So how did you get into the pillar?
49:38
SPEAKER_00: So if you saw the Sphinx's riddle, she offers to send you up there.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: And so that's how you ended up.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's the. And I did.
49:50
SPEAKER_00: I chose this.
49:51
SPEAKER_01: Did you? Go ahead.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
49:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay. I don't remember how he appears, but.
49:58
SPEAKER_00: He appears after you like free the prison where the Eldritch entity also is living.
50:03
SPEAKER_00: Right.
50:05
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, he gives you, I got the astral projection scroll and I got the wish scroll.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, these are, these are other things
50:14
SPEAKER_00: in D&D that you don't use unless you need to.
50:17
SPEAKER_00: So I never actually used any of them.
50:19
SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
50:20
SPEAKER_00: And they're also 9th level spells, so you can't technically use them.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: But I sussed out the Lich,
50:29
SPEAKER_00: and basically all my gut instincts were like, don't trust him.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: He's a bad person.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: Lichdom is bad.
50:37
SPEAKER_00: And as a D&D player, you know Lichdom is bad.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, I don't want to deal with him.
50:43
SPEAKER_00: I didn't, with the Demi Lich, the Little Skull,
50:46
SPEAKER_00: I didn't agree with him to get Speak With Dead either.
50:50
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I could be blocking myself off significantly.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: So I never got to interview the dead bodies for insight.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: So I think I just, I raw dogged some stuff.
51:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got, I got like pretty far in like the understanding of the Lich.
51:09
SPEAKER_01: I forgot his name, Viskin.
51:11
SPEAKER_01: But I got like, I got stuck with, I got like,
51:16
SPEAKER_01: I did some nice dice rolls and I had done some nice progression and it was like,
51:22
SPEAKER_01: he said something like, okay, like come meet me after dark or something.
51:26
SPEAKER_01: And then I couldn't find him.
51:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, I either, either like missed the dialogue on where to meet him
51:32
SPEAKER_01: or got something turned around,
51:34
SPEAKER_01: but I didn't get as much progression as I was trying to get with Viskin.
51:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, that, that happens.
51:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, um,
51:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
51:48
SPEAKER_01: it's kind of crazy that I think for me it was like 14 hours
51:51
SPEAKER_01: that you can pack
51:56
SPEAKER_01: in this type of adventure in that amount of time too. I respect that.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, one thing I wanted to say is I love the combat in this game.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: It's just...
52:10
SPEAKER_01: It kind of shows that it was all dialogue, right?
52:16
SPEAKER_01: It was like playing Oregon Trail or something and dice rolls.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: Theater of mind.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: Very theater of mind.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: I love that. Theater of mind.
52:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I really like that.
52:27
SPEAKER_01: But it shows how just because something is low budget
52:32
SPEAKER_01: that it can't be thrilling and well made.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: Because we've talked about so many games on this show like The battles
52:39
SPEAKER_01: and promise mascot agency and stuff and how like, oh,
52:43
SPEAKER_01: like if they invested more time into the system, like it could have been more fun.
52:47
SPEAKER_01: But this was like a perfect example of how that actually like,
52:51
SPEAKER_01: There were many aspects of this game that were bootstrapped,
52:54
SPEAKER_01: but were super compelling and fun.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: I liked theater of mind
53:01
SPEAKER_01: and choice-based combat and dice roll-based combat.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: I liked that this wasn't a combat-heavy game, but when there was combat, I enjoyed it.
53:14
SPEAKER_00: And it theater of the mind is is how when you play D&D, if you don't have minis,
53:20
SPEAKER_00: you just narrate everything with flavor and there are dice rolls involved.
53:25
SPEAKER_00: And I agree.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: I thought the combat was I use the word strangely well implemented.
53:31
SPEAKER_00: I think it's like.
53:35
SPEAKER_00: Coming from Baldur's Gate or other turn-based games,
53:37
SPEAKER_00: you almost would have anticipated like a Baldur's Gate style,
53:40
SPEAKER_00: basically like a D&D encounter.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: But this game doesn't need that.
53:44
SPEAKER_00: And so you removed whatever crunch,
53:47
SPEAKER_00: which is a big pillar in D&D when you include combat and in favor of theater
53:53
SPEAKER_00: of the mind, but still requires all of the necessary ability checks, spells,
53:59
SPEAKER_00: and hit point tracking that would narrate.
54:03
SPEAKER_00: And then of course...
54:04
SPEAKER_00: I did love basically the peanut gallery.
54:07
SPEAKER_00: That was your inner systems being like, he's on the ropes.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: You got to get out. Oh, Jesus.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: And it's just like, nobody knows that more than I do, but I'm freaking out.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: Dude, straight Disco Elysium, man. Exactly.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: Dude, the Disco Elysium really deserves its flowers
54:24
SPEAKER_01: for bringing so many cool things to this genre. Yeah.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: There's got to be more Disco Elysium likes.
54:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there already are a couple more on the way and Dead Spies or whatever
54:40
SPEAKER_01: the other game that just came out from them.
54:42
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's like these are rock solid mechanics. Yeah.
54:46
SPEAKER_01: And the music, like the music during combat.
54:49
SPEAKER_01: This game was, again, for its budget, very cinematic.
54:54
SPEAKER_01: The opening intro credits were epic,
55:00
SPEAKER_01: really set the mood in kind of a comic book style.
55:04
SPEAKER_01: And then the scripted music
55:09
SPEAKER_01: and set piece moments in the game,
55:13
SPEAKER_01: they did a lot with what they had.
55:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I found this game to be super cinematic.
55:18
SPEAKER_00: I agree. I think just the way characters would cut in during action scenes like
55:23
SPEAKER_00: with the dialogue they would come in and just like set the tone of like what's
55:27
SPEAKER_00: about to happen and.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: You relinquish control a little bit when that combat or like
55:34
SPEAKER_00: when a dangerous situation comes up, like if you in the Minotaur test,
55:39
SPEAKER_00: if you ever did that one or like any combat scene with the assassin.
55:44
SPEAKER_00: I did like lean in and like lock in.
55:47
SPEAKER_00: I was like, OK.
55:49
SPEAKER_00: Especially like I'd mentioned,
55:51
SPEAKER_00: I forced myself to use resources in a way that I don't in other games
55:56
SPEAKER_00: because I'm like, well, if I don't use resources and get a game over, well then,
56:00
SPEAKER_00: you know, I'll just use one resource next time and see if I can get by that way.
56:05
SPEAKER_00: Here I was like, no, we got to lock in.
56:08
SPEAKER_00: This guy can deal like 20 damage and I have 25 hit points.
56:11
SPEAKER_00: Like it's either make it or break it.
56:13
SPEAKER_00: And you're going to take damage no matter what.
56:15
SPEAKER_00: There's no way you can just like Yeah.
56:18
SPEAKER_00: And so I also found it very engaging cinematic.
56:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Going through the achievements a little bit here.
56:26
SPEAKER_01: I see that you rolled like a D30 or higher.
56:30
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I ever got close to that.
56:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah. Well, when I'm plus 15, it's not hard.
56:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
56:41
SPEAKER_01: I beheld the Dragon of Tolstead and Um, did you? I miss that.
56:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the goblin woman basically figured out that she was a dragon and not a goblin.
56:53
SPEAKER_01: It makes sense. It makes sense.
56:55
SPEAKER_00: I do think, and if I'm just speaking once again for DMs everywhere,
57:00
SPEAKER_00: we've all snuck a dragon into a cool NPC and have just been like,
57:04
SPEAKER_00: they'll never figure it out. And I've done it.
57:07
SPEAKER_00: Every DM has freaking done it.
57:09
SPEAKER_00: And it's incredible to...
57:11
SPEAKER_00: I love that this guy did it too.
57:13
SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
57:14
SPEAKER_00: I promise you, if you talk to any other DM, they'll be like, oh yeah, that person,
57:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm stuck in a dragon NPC.
57:19
SPEAKER_00: They're just a normal dude.
57:24
SPEAKER_01: I love that. Other cool found? Oh, go ahead. Sorry. No, no.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: I was just going to say, I found out that even though I didn't have any relationship
57:31
SPEAKER_00: with him, Darrow was a vampire.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: You find out through lore that he's been around for a long time.
57:39
SPEAKER_00: And of course that Viskin is a lich.
57:41
SPEAKER_00: If you...
57:43
SPEAKER_00: I didn't behold him, but there is like a wisdom check where you're like, figure him out.
57:48
SPEAKER_00: And it's like...
57:49
SPEAKER_00: This dude's a lich.
57:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely figured out that he was a lich.
57:54
SPEAKER_01: Don't really know what the significance of a lich is.
57:56
SPEAKER_01: I don't have any of that kind of backstory.
57:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't think the game tutorialized it too much.
58:01
SPEAKER_01: Just that a lot of people gave him the creeps kind of thing.
58:04
SPEAKER_01: I did not figure out Daryl was a vampire, I don't think.
58:06
SPEAKER_01: So that's neat.
58:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just super fun game. Yeah.
58:17
SPEAKER_00: Do you...
58:19
SPEAKER_00: How did you resolve?
58:21
SPEAKER_00: What was the encounter with Jor like for you?
58:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that I ended up being like, just talk to him.
58:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think I ended up being, um, uh, sympathetic.
58:37
SPEAKER_01: Like he was clearly going through it.
58:41
SPEAKER_01: And I think I didn't really lead with anger or violence.
58:45
SPEAKER_01: I think I just kind of, uh, um, So I think narratively,
58:51
SPEAKER_01: I think that this happens no matter what.
58:52
SPEAKER_01: But for me, he committed suicide.
58:55
SPEAKER_01: And it was like, whoa, like I wasn't expecting that.
59:00
SPEAKER_01: But also, yeah, I really like, not like that,
59:06
SPEAKER_01: but basically you think you're kind of You just fought the troll a couple hours ago.
59:12
SPEAKER_01: You think you might be like gearing up for this climactic fight.
59:16
SPEAKER_01: And I found it very moving when he did that.
59:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
59:22
SPEAKER_00: So I know a few things and here I spoiled myself
59:25
SPEAKER_00: because I was looking for a revivify scroll.
59:30
SPEAKER_00: And so I ended up unfortunately looking it up to how to get it
59:34
SPEAKER_00: and realized it was not in my reach.
59:36
SPEAKER_00: But in the same time, Process in vain.
59:40
SPEAKER_00: I clicked something I should not have clicked.
59:43
SPEAKER_00: And it talked about and I was like,
59:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what world you have to do to unlock this or what how it all lines up.
59:50
SPEAKER_00: It could be probably a series of like failed persuasion roles.
59:53
SPEAKER_00: But Jor, I think, does fight you.
59:58
SPEAKER_00: And then in the fight, he apparently can kill Snell.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_00: And that's how you revive Snell.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: So I do think there's, depending on your life choices in the game,
1:00:10
SPEAKER_00: I think that can be more confrontational.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_00: And like, honestly, the thought of losing Snell would be would be terrible.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_00: Snell or a tier. Yeah.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_01: Mostly snout.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that the sidekick thing is also really well used
1:00:31
SPEAKER_01: in the Disco Elysium mechanics.
1:00:33
SPEAKER_01: You have like a A fellow detective who's like your Snell basically.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_01: So this game is like a lot of the praise and criticism for this game was like how
1:00:42
SPEAKER_01: the things that they liked about it took from disco and the things
1:00:45
SPEAKER_01: that people didn't like.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_01: But definitely added more than enough other things to stand on its own feet kind of thing.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_01: It's funny you've been saying Jorm or Gorm.
1:00:59
SPEAKER_01: Is it Jorm or Gorm?
1:01:01
SPEAKER_00: I thought it was Jor, but I could be wrong. It's probably Gorm.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_01: G-O-R-M, yeah.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's Gorm.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: I have Jorm in my notes.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_00: I have Jor, J-O-R in my notes.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's the pillar of Jor,
1:01:13
SPEAKER_01: but then Gorm is the paladin who attempted to kill everybody.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_01: And then Earth is the god that Jorm was trying to resurrect and...
1:01:29
SPEAKER_01: He was like, oh yeah, I didn't need to come back. I'm not trying to come back.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_01: And you're like, oh, okay, cool.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_00: Cool, cool.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I
1:01:47
SPEAKER_01: liked how supernatural this game was.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_01: I just loved some of the last areas that you discovered
1:01:55
SPEAKER_01: with the troll and the Just
1:01:58
SPEAKER_01: that whole area was fun for me.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_01: The man in the cage.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_01: I really wanted to never let him out.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that would have stopped my progression,
1:02:08
SPEAKER_01: but I just felt like I had to let him out.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_00: I know.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_01: Some of those things.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_00: Listen, I wasn't a complete asshole.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I don't think I was even that.
1:02:18
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't a negative person.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_00: I do think the game would be different if you were just Ruthless, yeah.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was pretty self-deprecating a lot of my dialogue choices too.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_01: Cool, any other closing thoughts on Esoteric Eb?
1:02:38
SPEAKER_00: No, I think, did you lean any political party?
1:02:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. The Socialist one?
1:02:45
SPEAKER_01: The Asgard one. Yeah. The Socialist one. Yeah.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_01: That's the Socialist one, right?
1:02:49
SPEAKER_01: It's like, that's the thing. I have a really...
1:02:51
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like being evil in Mass Effect.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, I have a really hard time being like a... Clearly like...
1:03:01
SPEAKER_01: Like in disco, there's like fascist, I think you could be like fascist.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I can't be fascist.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be fascist.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_01: And like in this game where there's very, clearly like extreme,
1:03:12
SPEAKER_01: like income inequality and racism and like, it's just like, I'm just going to be,
1:03:19
SPEAKER_01: yeah.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_01: Like anything other than this one, like, I don't, I tried a little bit, like I,
1:03:24
SPEAKER_01: I would, Dabble in some other things, but like, yeah,
1:03:26
SPEAKER_01: like the freestrider boys were like the worst.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_01: How am I going to help them out?
1:03:36
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no. Yeah, it was a as cool as cool. Oh, yeah.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_01: Which I just found a little bit boring.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely loved it.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_01: Shout out to
1:03:51
SPEAKER_01: Christopher Bodegaard, you're a savant.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_01: Good luck. I hope this set you up with an amazing career.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_01: I think it probably did.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, until next time, any other notes?
1:04:09
SPEAKER_00: That's it for me.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_00: Great time with the game.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully something else comes up cool in the future built on this.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I don't know what a sequel would look like.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_00: I think, like you mentioned, it could be hard to incorporate a sequel.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't want one.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_00: Especially the day we're recording this, voting feels very important.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure when we log off here,
1:04:39
SPEAKER_00: we'll quickly go check the AP polls to see what's happening in the world.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_00: Vote Asgol.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that actually is amazing coincidence.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_01: Election Day was the whole climax of this game.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_01: Vote Asgol.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, next week's conversation will probably not be so deep,
1:05:04
SPEAKER_01: but it will be fun nonetheless and look forward to it.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_00: For sure. Have a good one, man.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Patrick. Later.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_01: Much love.