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Premium: The Deep Questions - How Loudly May I Poo In Public? · Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

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  G'day, this is an abridged version of the episode that you can hear in full by signing up
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  at uncomfortableconversations.substac.com slash subscribe. Enjoy the freebie.
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  G'day, humans. Welcome to the Safe Space for Dangerous Ideas.
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  You know, sometimes this show is frivolous and light.
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  And, you know, we talk about things that are of no consequence,
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  like the fate of human civilization, whether or not we can talk to each other anymore,
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  how to treat our political enemies, what the right way to live a moral life is.
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  And sometimes when I'm discussing these frivolous issues,
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  I think wouldn't it be nice to get my hands dirty dealing with the really important stuff of life,
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  the nuts and bolts? And that's where today's guest comes in.
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  It shouldn't really even call him a guest. He's an interlocutor.
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  He's a co-presenter, if you will. A friend of mine, a work colleague, Robby Amfield.
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  This is the first instalment in perhaps the last, as well, you tell me,
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  you tell us whether you like it or not, of a segment I'm calling the deep questions,
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  where Robby comes up with an idea, something that he's been noodling on,
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  something that's been bothering him, that something's been causing some anxiety in his life.
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  And he says, Josh, old uncle, old pal,
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  a white call me uncle. I want your advice about this.
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  And so I thought the two of us should flesh out a very, very deep question on the show today.
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  Before we get to it, I'd love your thoughts about something that's been vexing me in the listeners
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  on my ABC radio show, which is an article by a flight attendant,
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  writing suitonomously, because of course she would be, because it's a terrible argument that she's
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  making, saying that she's sick and tired of families with children on planes, behaving as if they
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  run the joint just because they have children. She says she's sick and tired of warming up milk
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  bottles for them. She's sick and tired of them demanding things like, oh, my child needs food
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  in between the designated meal times. And most of all, she's sick and tired of them assuming
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  that other passengers traveling alone might move so that the family can be accommodated together.
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  So I kind of want to know from you, are you also upset? Do you resent having to accommodate
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  children on a plane? Now, trust me, I know as much as the next person how annoying children are
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  on planes. In fact, I believe it was old Josh Zeps, who came up with the idea of, on busy routes,
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  a certain number of flights should be completely child-free. This is when I was flying between New
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  York and Los Angeles a lot. I was like, the flights leave every half hour at peak times between
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  like four and seven pm. Why not just say the flights on the hour are for everybody and the flights
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  at the bottom of the hour at half past, those are just for grownups, no one on the under 18.
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  That's it. Same with between Sydney and Melbourne. Wouldn't that be great? And they'd be highlighted
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  there on the on the yellow is a child-free flight. I would love that. When I'm flying with my
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  children, trust me, no matter how annoying they are to you, they're even more annoying to me.
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  Now, I know that I'm the one who chose to have them and I have to cop that. But a little bit of
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  conciliation would be kind from the flight attendant, unlike the one who wrote this stupid article,
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  saying that she doesn't even assist families anymore in asking fellow passengers to swap seats.
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  She says, well, what if the passenger had paid for an extra leg room seat?
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  And they're asking to essentially be downgraded. What if the passengers in an exit row?
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  What if the passenger has a hidden disability that you can't see? And you're actually asking them
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  to swap seats. And maybe they wouldn't even be able to bend their leg
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  in the seat that you're asking them to swap to. To which I say, well, if any of those things happen,
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  then obviously it would not be reasonable to expect that person to move. But would it kill you to
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  assist in just asking the person if they'd be okay to move from the same seat to the same seat?
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  I'm not saying you go from an aisle seat to a window in the middle. I mean, to a middle seat in
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  the middle. Or you don't have to be window to window, aisle to aisle. Maybe even an upgrade where
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  you're going from a middle seat to an aisle seat. That would be fine. I don't think the person should
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  have a worse seat. But is it unreasonable to enlist the assistance of a flight attendant in just
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  politely asking somebody to move like it's the airline that has split the family up in the first
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  place? Like it'll frequently be the case that there are no free seats left to select on a plane.
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  A lot of planes it'll be you'll go through the booking process. And if the plane is three quarters
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  full already because you're booking something for next week, there are no seats clustered together.
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  And if there are, they want 20 bucks or 25 bucks to select the seat. I've just paid for the flight.
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  There are four of us. I'm not paying 80 bucks outbound and 80 bucks return at next to 160 bucks
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  on top of the flight just so I can sit somewhere. If I'm making a booking with grown-ups and children
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  under the age of like, you know, eight or whatever, if the airline can see that there is a three-year-old
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  being booked with a grown-up, the airline should be allocating seating so that the three-year-old
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  isn't in row 67 while the grown-up is in row 15 by the automatic seat allocation system that you
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  get if you don't want to fork out the money that they're extorting from you to pay for the seat
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  when you've already paid for the ticket. So if the airline can't manage its IT systems such that
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  families aren't getting split up and if the check-in agents and gate agents can't take care of it,
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  then by the time you get on the plane, if you're all over the place and you've got your, I don't
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  know, autistic kid who's all alone back in row 147, Jay, then would it kill the flight attendant
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  to assist you in asking other passengers if they wouldn't mind moving to a comparable seat
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  or even a superior seat so that the family can sit together. I don't know if I'm crazy here,
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  but I just thought it was out of line. I thought she was out of line and she should be fired,
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  frankly. You can hear that whole conversation. We did talk back on this, just me and the listeners
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  for a whole half hour on the ABC website. It'll be in the upcoming newsletter for Uncomfortable
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  Conversations when you subscribe to the Substack, the free version, totally free, totally free.
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  You get the newsletter and that links to these conversations and then with a single quick,
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  you can hear that. I can't post ABC content on this show for obvious reasons. It's the ABC's
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  Intellectual Property, whatever I do on the air there, but I can direct you directly to that
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  segment, which is archive, which you can listen to and enjoy after the fact in my newsletter,
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  which you can get by subscribing for free. So that was one of several fascinating conversations
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  that we recently had. Another of which was with Emil Sherman, who's been a guest on this show,
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  Academy Award winner. It was the afternoon of the Oscars and he was sort of bubbling back the
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  veil on how the politics of running an Oscars campaign works from the studios and the producers
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  point of view. We sometimes think of the Oscars as being this, there's a selection process and
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  there's a rhyme and a reason to it. They're almost like judges in robes adjudicating the Hollywood's
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  best output and of course it's not that. It's run like a political election campaign where
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  movies and studios are all vying and bribing and schmoozing and peddling influence. And Emil is a
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  voter in the Academy, as well as having one Academy Award for the King's Speech. He was nominated
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  last year at the Oscars. He was there with Jane Campion for the power of the dog, which he also
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  produced. He produced heart stopper on Netflix, you know, huge producer. And so it's fascinating to
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  talk to him about how Hollywood actually runs in the lead up to the Oscars. So you can also hear
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  that on ABC Online, the link to it, a single click from the newsletter, from the uncomfortable
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  conversations newsletter. But enough about me. Let's talk about Robbie's deep questions. Please
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  enjoy this inaugural, a premium episode of the deep questions with Josh Seps and Robbie.
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  So Robbie, what deep, important issue if you brought to me? The notion of defecating in a public
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  space, a toilet specifically. Right. And that would be when you say public space, I'm imagining
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  some kind of like a public square out in the open. I mean more in water. That's right. I'm on
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  a public space and enclosed toilet cubicle and enclosed toilet cubicle. And your issue is what
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  exactly whether or not you, well, I have a issue with doing it there essentially. Right. But I
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  seem to notice other people beside me and the adjacent cubicles not having that problem at all.
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  And I've been wondering about their confidence and how they managed to watch the problem that
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  they're not having. They're able to defecate with ease, loudly, proudly. Right. It comes out.
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  Do you have a, is yours not, it doesn't function that way? Well, we all go through different
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  periods. Josh, I mean, you know, there's, there's hard, there's soft times. Right. I generally can go
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  quite well, quite readily. There's not, there's not a huge issue. But when it comes to, I mean,
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  I guess I get stage fright. But that's what, but this is a well-known, it's sort of like a well-known
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  thing that sometimes a gentleman will be standing at a urinal and will be, and someone else will
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  come in and then they'll get stage fright and they won't be able to we. And I always thought that
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  had something to do with them being self-conscious about the size of their wiener or something. And
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  they're, you know, there's like that. But it can be fickle with urine, but have not found the
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  same phenomenon at the other end. And you're saying that you, because I was, I'm unclear about whether
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  you're saying that you, you can't instruct, you're sphincter to do what you want it to or that
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  you're too polite to put your neighbor through the auditory and olfactory chaos that you're about
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  to unleash on the world. I'm too nervous to put my name to the noise. Do you normally submit your name
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  to the person in the next all? I'll usually say depends how much of a good time you want to
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  suppose. I want everyone to be comfortable. So I'll usually announce who I am on entry to any sort
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  of public space, be it a toilet, be it a square. Yeah. I don't know if you do that. Do you do this
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  by passing a note under the toilet stall or by announcing it loudly? It'll be a note. It'll be,
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  I don't know, you can airdrop photos. So I usually airdrop my face to people nearby. So they know
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  it. No, but in all seriousness, you have a problem. Yeah. I sit down. I can't do it. Oh, well,
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  I don't want to. You don't want to do it. I don't want to. You're being polite to them. You're
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  saying, are we all living in a savage world where we're inflicting upon our co-poors, the sounds
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  and smells of our poo? I thought this was very sweet and quaint of you because I thought it was
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  nice to think that there's a lot of volition in people's pooing. Like I generally am of the opinion,
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  I'm of the assumption when I go into a toilet at an airport or in a public place or in a town square
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  that the person who's doing the poo is probably in like there are other places that
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  rather be. They probably don't have the choice to pucker up and keep waddling along. They're
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  probably gone. I've had a burrito. I need relief and this is the place to find such relief and
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  they're not thinking about me. I don't think choice is a really great topic to bring up. But I also
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  think location is one to bring up. Location, location, location. If I'm at an airport or I'm at
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  some random park toilet, I'm more ready to let rip. When I'm in a workplace that I care about
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  my vocation here, I want to maintain that sort of the veneer that I am professional and know what
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  I'm doing. That can all be thrown a sunder by a rogue fart or a sort of just a bad way of letting
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  loose of that feces. I don't understand that. You know what I'm saying. So basically there's
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  it seems like nobody else has that problem. Right. I'm hearing that you're impressed.
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  You're actually impressed and maybe even nail a little jealous of other people's
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  impunity when it comes to letting it rip a little bit. You don't understand why you're the only
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  one who asked to abide by this moral code that you've built for yourself in this castle and the sky
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  inside your brain. That's right. That's right. When you're allowed to poo and not. I feel coy. I feel
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  coy and I feel like I need to keep up appearances. I don't quote. He's literally doing air quotes.
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  Ladies and gentlemen, I'm doing air clients. So let me ask you this. You're walking down the
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  the hall at, you know, your workplace of work and you go into the toilet and it's a multi-stool
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  toilet, right? And you go in needing to do a poo. One of the doors is closed and occupied and
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  someone's shuffling around. Do you walk straight out again? I will go and sit because hopefully if
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  they've already been in there in the doors shut and I'm not hearing anything, I'm presuming
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  they're about to wipe. So they are soon to be, so you go and sit and wait. You'll wait like a
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  nervous little birdie for them to leave. A little nervous nest is what I will sort of make for
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  myself in the cubicle while you're air dropping them photos of your face. On my face,
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  full torso if need be. No, I do sit there for a second. I will. And I know what you mean. I do
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  that. I do think that moral code. I think that's a code we all share. Yeah, I don't think you'd get
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  in. I don't think you'd go straight in. Sit down next to someone in the cubicle next to you while
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  they're trying to be polite and then let out a big, ploppy, you know, I think you'd hold it for a
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  while. Wouldn't you? As long as you could to be polite and the hope that they're going to get up.
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  But isn't it awful when they don't? Oh. And the two of you are in a Mexican staring contest.
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  And you're both there quiet. It's true. I feel like I have to make some noise.
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  I think so as well. And you sometimes like check if they're a feet. Because they're so silent.
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  Yeah. I mean, I can be that you're peering underneath the well. Not at all creepyway.
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  No, not appearing underneath to see if there is a human in the store next to you. In no way
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  what I want to see anything more than just the corner of the rubber of their shoe.
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  Right. Like it wouldn't make a difference. So let's say you're going through and then you see
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  and then you go in and you look at the shoes and you go that's like that's Josh Zeps's shoe.
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  Or it's it's like Steve Ernst who's the general manager of ABC Radio Sydney. Does that change
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  the calculus versus or you know, it's just someone. It's just that shoe would have to belong to
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  a Gen Zeta. I don't care about them. Ah, you know what I mean? Is it like status thing? I would want
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  to impress the I would want to impress Steve. He's my boss. I'm confident. I don't want to know.
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  So I am confident. I am confident. I was thinking you'd be polite and not do it if your boss was
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  there, but you're saying if your boss is there, you go all even further. You go all in. I am
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  I take a laxative in the morning and then you follow him in just to prove that you don't care.
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  I think both can be true, right? You could sit down. You could notice the status of the person
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  and you could either be the polite quiet coy or you could you wanted to show you want to show face
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  that you are one to let rip in a moment that requires it. Yeah, that's interesting. You know what I mean?
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  I do. Both can be true. But not in your case because it sounds like you have a problem with
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  controlling your sphincter when you're nervous. But I nobody else seems to sit down to other people.
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  I sit down next to other people. This isn't about other people, Robby. This is about you. I know.
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  This is about you all. Do you know what I mean? Do you find this? I mean, so you sit down,
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  but you're happy to just go. No, I'm not happy. I'm not happy with myself. You're not happy,
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  but you'll do it. I don't enjoy it. There's rather not poo at all, Robby. I don't know why we're
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  talking about it. Yeah, why are we talking about whether or not we like? Well, that's not true.
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  There is nothing nicer than having needed to go and not having been able to poo and then suddenly
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  being able to poo. That's great. But I'd like to be built in such a way that I never had to poo.
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  You've got sort of some sort of sack. Well, I don't not wishing a colostomy bag on myself,
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  but I'm just wishing that I don't understand. When you say, am I happy to sit down next to
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  a total stranger and let Ripper a big poo? No. Also, it's really bad if it's, I mean, I don't
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  only get too graphic, but it's really bad if it is on the softer side and there is some problems
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  going on in the tum tum. Then you know, there is something deeply undignified about the
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  problem. There is. It's fascinating to me how much it's sort of still it still has a taboo to it.
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  It feels like to me, you know, I mean, it's the last taboo, so I might say we're pre-recording this
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  because it's not fit for it's not fit for anything. We can just so that the listener is aware of this.
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  Robby suggested that we have this conversation on public radio with people calling in to try to
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  adjudicate whether or not they too. I mean, this is almost too dirty for uncomfortable conversations.
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  Let alone for ABC radio. I maintain it's a good idea, but that's okay. I'm happy to do this right now.
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  Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much. So yes, I'm embarrassed to sit down, especially if it's noisy
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  or malodorous in a way that's unseemly, but I'll do it because what are options do I have?
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  Like once you've sat there, bloke next to you doesn't move. You're there for three minutes.
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  You're like, stuff this for a joke. What? You get up and leave. I'm telling you I've done it,
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  and I'm telling you I don't feel good about it. Where do you go? I go and I wash my hands,
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  and I flush like happens to the poo that's inside you. It remains stagnant. It turns into a
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  stillborn mess. Wow. And it screws me up. But you get you flush, you pretend like you've
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  done something. If I need a way, I'll do it a little way, and I'll pretend like I sit down to
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  way, which some people do. That's fine. Yeah. I don't really do that, but I will pretend like I do
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  in this situation. Yeah. Does that make sense? It does. It does make sense. So you have to fain
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  being a German who likes to sit down the way. The Europeans are a big across side.
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  I think we've done talk back about it before, and I think it has something to do with the fact
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  that the water level in the toilet is higher. There's more splashing to stand up.
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  And so the Germans can get quite particular about that. I really upset a German bloke.
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  We were uni students, and he said the condition of this house is you sit down to go to the toilet.
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  And I was like, well, that's fine. You're allowed to have that rule. It's not one that I'll
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  comply with. I didn't say that, but I didn't comply with it. And then he came in, and he must have
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  been crawling around on the floor, on all fours to spot the, because I'm a pretty clean guy.
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  It wouldn't have been a lot of spray, but he would have noticed them. And he came out and he said,
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  did you, did you not do it? I was like, yeah, no, I don't sit down to it. He was like, I made,
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  I made it very clear. Is this for the rules? You sit down to go to the toilet. How did he bring
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  this up with you in first moment? I walked in the door. Did that strike him as odd? Yes.
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  That's why I didn't comply. But I mean, the other problem with the big, the high water mark there
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  is your packing.