Latest / WoT Spoilers / News in Tel’aran’rhiod & A Visit from Verin Sedai - The Gathering Storm chapter 38 & 39 - EP535

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News in Tel’aran’rhiod & A Visit from Verin Sedai - The Gathering Storm chapter 38 & 39 - EP535 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. As we
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: were saying before we turned recording on, this is a
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: lot of chapter and Seth is very caffeinated, so this
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: is going to be a very interesting episode. Buckle up.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: And by the way, that hood you're wearing is green?
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Done done, it's we're going there, We are going there.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: This is that chapter, This is those chapters. Rather, we
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: are going to attempt to get through the entire your
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: dress is Green sequence. We'll see how well it works.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, it feels like one scene to me. I
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: know it's a very long scene, but there's also some
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: stuff that will invoke long conversations and some stuff that won't.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: It's there's just so much. I was having such a
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: good time reading it, reading it, I was highlighting so much.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: There's just so much. I mean, it's the sander Lanche,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: It's the Sanderland. This is what you would call the
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: sander Lanches. There's all of this plot resolution and character
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: development and still cliffhangers and just stuff is happening so fast.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what we're going to
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: skip past really quick, and what's going to take us
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: forty five minutes to get through just a lot here,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: and then we leave off on a cliffhanger, which Spodunkle
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: is trying to gaslight me into saying that I agreed
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: to do four chapters of we're not doing that, but
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: it's going to be just as much of a cliffhanger
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: at the end as it is in the middle.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Right because because next week we go right into the
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: battle for the White Tower and against the Seawan Jam.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, bam.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: So it's just it's a four chapter arc and no,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: we're not doing them all today because I have to
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: sleep at some point.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: It's I mean, you might not with all the caffeine.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: You've got, you have finish the book today. That's fine.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be fine.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: We'll be backe Yeah. Fun. Not that it takes the
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: time to make notes or anything.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: No, not at all, not at all. Yeah. I don't
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: even know what else to say other than oh my god,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: here we go, Here we go.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I guess I should prepare to do a read in
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: to chapter thirty eight News Intel Irenriod with the dream
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Turangriol as the chapter logo.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Rob wrote this chapter fake news and tell Ronriod.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Igwayne see reason Swan said faintly translucent because of the
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: terranngrioll ring she had used to enter a tele irenriod.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: What good can you do rotting in that cell? Elida
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: will see that you're never let free, not after what
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: you said you did at that dinner, Swan shook her head. Mother,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you just have to face the truth. You can
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: only repair a net so many times before you need
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: to toss the thing aside and weave a new one.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Agwaine sat on a three legs stool in the corner
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: of the room, the front part of a cobbler's shop.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: She had chosen the location at random, just in case
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: ischooing a location in the White Tower itself. The Forsaken
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: knew that Agwaine and the others walked the world of dreams.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: With Swan, Agwaine could be more relaxed, more her real self.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: The two of them both understood that Agwaine was now
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: the ombrelin and Swan her lesser, but at the same
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: time they shared a bond, a camaraderie due to the
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: station they had both filled. That bond strangely had turned
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: into something akin to friendship. At the moment, Igwin was
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: nearly ready to strangle her friend. I just had to
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: do that first sentence of the next paragraph because it's
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: so funny, and to me that really captures the dynamic.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Is like we are such good friends and I will
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: literally cut a bit right now.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: It's almost a sister relationship and sort of like the
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: sisters of being an Amerlin. Yeah, like this little club
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: that only they're really a part of.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a very rarefied club people who have been
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: amrelin and amor line. Like usually it turns over when
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: someone dies. There's usually only one person in that category
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: at all. For there to be two people sharing that.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Reality, I'm technically there's three.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: False omborline, but yeah, it's it's not normal for there
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: to be the ability for those two people to have any.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Kind of conversation, kind of like when all the living
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: presidents get together except Trump.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: God.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: The parallels between Alida and that man really coming through
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: in how the legal system treats them both in these chapters,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: you know, or this chapter, I suppose, is where that
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: discussion happens.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: The way they just make declarations with no approval from
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: the governing bobby underneath them.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Just disregarding what the checks and balances are checking and balancing,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: just completely disregarding it. Yeah, the ineffectiveness of systems if
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: the person being persecuted doesn't really care so much. Yeah,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: that's in parallels.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Where's our Sean Chan?
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: I do not want to speculate on that. So, yeah,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Agwaine and Swan are talking about the fallout from the
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: dinner and is this time for Agwaine to bounce to
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: get rescued. And this is really the crux on which
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: the whole rescue of her at the end of the
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Battle of the White Tower rests. Is Swan being very
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: afraid that Aguaine is going to get like rapid fire
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: executed and there won't be time to rescue her, and
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Agwaine saying, no, I have to risk that potentially happening,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to be gotten out. But fine,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I'll give you a big red button. If it really
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: looks bad, I'll let you get me out. And Swan
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: uses that to wiggle through her oaths and her loyalty
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: and all of that. That's how she gets Agwayne out
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: and makes a Guain very very mad at her. Is
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: because she extracts this minor concession that she widens into
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: a full blown hundred person rescue team.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: And they do a lot of speculation over how the
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: tower and Alida are going to interact, but like, we
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: get more facts about that later, exactly what's happening and
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: how Alia gets censored, and you know, Agwayin's like, could
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: she have me punished? And it's like, eh, she's lost
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of power already. She's not actually going to
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: be able to do whatever she wants with you at.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: This point, right, And at first she gets given a
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: bunch of I won't say fake information, but a very
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: spun set of information. They then Sarah and updates her
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: on like, oh no, this is what's really going on.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: It's like literal propaganda layers to like pars here, and yeah,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of it comes to nothing because by the
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: end of the day, Elida is going to be in
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: shaan Chan custody and it's all going to be completely
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: literally within the next twenty four hours by the time
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: the sun rises. Again, all of this is moot.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I did notice here that when Suon is arguing to
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: get Agwayne out, she says, I know that you can
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: suddenly change your mind and just kill you. And you
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: might think you can get out, but you might not
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: in that circumstance, you might not have time to arrange
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: an escape, and Agwaine says, if that happens, my death
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: would be a victory. Elida would be the one who
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: gave up, not I, so sort of foreshadowing that she
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: is willing to die for victory.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: M Yeah, Yeah, the motivation in the end is different,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: but yeah, her willingness to say, well, if my death
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: buys us the right prize, fuck it.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: I will die. Yeah. Sort of the mindset that she's
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: in going into this battle is like, I'm fighting that
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: battle and the cost is some people die, and if
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: I'm one of those people, then that's the cost.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was thinking a lot in this chapter. Later
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: in this chapter when she's just walking around looking at
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: the tower in the dream and really like identifying with
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: it and thinking about it, and just how much is
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: that manifesting in her personality, that meshing of her and
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: the tower, right, that thing that she does to Massana
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: later just being the tower, Right, she spends so much
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: time until I run riod in and around the tower
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: thinking I am the tower. Like that's got to have
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: an effect on her psyche, Right, do you think she's
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: a powerfully minded person. She spends a lot of time
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: until I run Riod identifying as the tower, and the
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Tower can make those sacrifices. So Sedichael is suggesting that
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: if Agween died Alida's hands, she would be forgotten, that
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: her read of the situation is wrong.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I think she has enough supporters and enough defenders that
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: her death would be like they would basically say no, Alida,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: you've gone too far, and they would bring her down.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I feel like that would be at least she thinks
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: it would be the uh straw that brings the camel's back.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I kind of feel like that's the well, obviously, once
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: the price of eggs doesn't go down, they'll turn on.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Him right right, right right.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Which is in our example, not what's happening. So perhaps
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Gwayn is wrong.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, you got to take our real world situation
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: right now with a grain of salt. It is so
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: rare for there not to be a line for people,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: like most times, a line that when they cross, that's
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: the end for them, most politicians most of the time.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: If not, you end up with an authoritarian dictator, right like,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of what has happened with Alida.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Right, that's the knife edge that they're playing with right now.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm hm. But for the first time, we're seeing
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: that they're starting to essentially stand up to her as
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: a group and be like, oh, no, we actually do
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: have the power. This has gone on too long, You've
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: had too many disasters, and like, you don't get to
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: keep doing whatever you want all the time.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, because I said
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: I have swept some wild shit under the rug. And
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: as Padrinkle is adding, like most of her own camp
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: doesn't even see her as Amberlin.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: So like I would disagree.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: With that, Yeah, would she be used as would she
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: be used as an effective martyr? Or would it just
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: be a tragic fallen soldier situation? And then moving on because.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: The only reason Lane is gaining power is because she's
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: declaring that she is in support of a Gwain as Amberlin, right,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: like most of the people around there, some of the
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: leadership doesn't necessarily believe as Amberline, but most of the
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: camp does.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I think it's kind of a
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: coin toss, like how the propaganda wrestling match goes between
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: all the factions and like, yeah, is it a ligne
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: for the Tower Eyes to Die almost matters more than
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: how it does or doesn't galvanize the.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Rebels, right right. I feel like this is like, yeah, if.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Is that going to affect the Tower Eyes to Die
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: or not? I think is the question. And yeah, I
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: mean you're right, there's a lot of people she's impressed
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: and it would really scare them. It means worse than
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: schamerin right, m hm. So yeah, and if they were
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: to then be like, we don't like this, you can't
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: do this anymore. That that could put an interesting twist
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: on what the rebellion is even rebelling against. Right, if
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: they were rebelling against Alida, then maybe Agwain's death does
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: reconcile the Tower in a really weird way. But that's
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: a big question if that would happen anywhere.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: So yeah, let's see where.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Were So next thing I've got is the Gowan conversation.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is this Gawandra cant So she finds out
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: that he is in the rebels camp.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Right in, her and Swan have a little bit of
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: a cloak and dagger practice session with that information. Essentially,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: it's because Swan, you know, sees how a GWayne reacts,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: and then a Grain reacts pretty good but gets a
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: little critique on her performance. And then they get down
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: to the real meat of the discussion, which is what
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: the fuck is Goaman doing here? What are we thinking
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: about that? And unfortunately Agwaine doesn't say I denounced him
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: sent him away. And they also talk about a couple
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: of evil that happened, like off screen, they're just happening
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: so often we don't even see them every right.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: You know, the world's falling apart. So now instead of
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: bubbles of evil being like things that happened to the
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: main characters in our bigger events are just like, oh yeah,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: the tents came alive last night and tried to strangle
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: a bunch of people. A couple of people died, Like
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: you're just living in a world that's falling apart now,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: and so you hear stories about it.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Because we had almost that scene when Mogedion was in Saladar, right,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: there was that thing where all the furniture attacked people
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: and clothing was attacking people. So it's like, oh, yeah,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: that that scene just a subtle variation. It was the
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: tent specifically, Yeah, no, I like that phrasing. It used
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: to only happen to the main character. Then now it's
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: just happening to the absolute NPCs.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: And I do wish there was more unique forms of
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: bubble of evil. The fact that he kind of reuses
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: the insects coming out of somebody, He reuses the tents
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: coming alive. I think he reuses the weapons coming alive too.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: It's just it's not necessarily like bad that these were
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: using those bubbles of evil. But I think it would
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: be more interesting if they'd all been unique.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Would have been a bigger creative challenge. I think you
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: would have had some very weird bubbles of evil by
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: the end. If you couldn't recycle any.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: It feels like they should all be like, is it's chaos,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: You shouldn't have repeated bubbles of evil. The dark one
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: is the essence of chaos, in the essence of things
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: breaking down, right, So yeah, like if.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: It had only been spears that had been minted, that
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: had been assembled, like on the full moon, just like
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: a random sub selection of the spears all come alive
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: and you don't know why, like I don't.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Know well, and I like like the metal going soft.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I thought that was a clever one.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: That one was a good one. I liked that one
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: that was but again that was weird. That felt like
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: we were reaching into the weird part the creative part.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it's just that the dark one doesn't
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: want to be too creative because that's sort of a
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: like creator thing, you know, like.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I just make things fall apart in the same way always, Yeah, exactly.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I mean decay is it's pretty consistent.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I could have done with a more loosening of
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: physical rules. Like you ever read Dies the Fire? Yes, yeah,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: so it's just like, oh, steam power just doesn't work
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: now yeah, yeah, we have no explanation for why it
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: just simply doesn't. We're doing everything right and for some
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: reason it isn't working. Like that would have been cool,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: like the metal thing, but I could have used more
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I read a Alistair Reynolds story sci fi where they've
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: colonized Mars and different areas have just based on your location,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: you get different technological things, levels of possible function, right,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: and like in some levels there's like the bad Lands
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: where like even biological function fails, so if you go
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: there you just die right like, And then there's other
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: places where it's just like Western and then like in
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: the city you get more like actual technology, like and
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: then laser guns and futuristic stuff, and then like people
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: living at the top of the city have like wings
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: and shit, you know, and so.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: An analogy for anything.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Nope, really I do like Alistair Reynolds as a sci
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: fi author. I've been enjoying his stuff. It's very, very dry, though,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: so it's hard to recommend.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: All right, So then we move on from Gwan because
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: there's nothing really interesting there, and Swan warns a Gwaine
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: about burnout, which Agwaine thinks is both ironic and also like,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: if there was ever someone to scold her about potentially
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: burning herself out, as omreline, it would be Swan because
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Swann empirically did that.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: It's so much foreshadowing for a GWayne dying at the end, right, yes.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Just sprint because she's going so fast that she burns out,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: like all of this stuff that she's like, don't do it,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: or you're gonna burn out, and it's like, yeah, that's
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: that's exactly what happens, right.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: A GWayne literally goes deeper into the dream and says,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. I'm going to do exactly what
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Swan said not to do. I'm gonna like manifest that
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: in my brain while I'm in the dream world. And yeah,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: the foreshadowing is pretty thick. Like I remember the first
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: time reading this being like suddenly kind of concerned, like
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: for her, just like stop warning her about this. This
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: feels like you're gonna make it happen.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Right because it's always been Agwain's way to go above
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: and beyond when people put limits on her. She says,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: fuck that, No, I'm gonna keep going right like and
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: sue on there is warning her they keep doing that,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: there's gonna be consequences.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Unfortunately she is correct.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: So yeah, she sympathized, sympathizes with Rand in the box,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: only she explains like, yeah, it was way worse. I
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: do kind of I like that she's getting this trauma,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: but I do think that with her, she should be
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: thinking about the trauma of being collared, not Rand's trauma.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she should have been thinking about her
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: own trauma. And also, like, I don't know she needed
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: to go through this to empathize with Rand, given that
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: she had that prior trauma exactly exactly didn't she have
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: used that to empathize with Rand, like long since.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Like that that is something I feel, like Brandon Sanderson
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I forgot about, like is a little bit of that
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: trauma around Seawan Chan when they attack, but like now,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: it would have been a perfect time to tap into it
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: and be like, oh my god, I feel like I'm
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: back in the collar. You know, the shawn chann are coming,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: but I've overcome that fear right of the shawn Chan
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: and the collar. Like that would be a great way
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: to bring in that conversation while also foreshadowing the shawn
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Chan attack. And he'll be like, oh, I know, I've
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: got I foreshadowed the attack, but surely it won't come
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: for many months now, you know, and then have it
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: come that day like that would be a perfect opportunity
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: to prove with characters wrong.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that Aguayne is thinking about
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: you know, oh, Rand and I have suffered the same
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: under alia. That is aod a good solidarity thing to have.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: But yeah, the part where she could have been honoring
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: her own Shawn Chan trauma and foreshadowing the attack with
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: some great ironic timing major missed opportunity. Mm hmm. It's
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: also funny she thinks about how Rand didn't have anybody
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: to talk to in the box, and I'm like, well,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: los there and did kind of become more of a
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: presence in Rand's life as a direct result of the box.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just practiced talking. I mean, whether he was
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: going crazy because of the stress or you know, of
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: being imprisoned, or he just found someone to talk to.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: And that's why Lewis Thearren came out more. Either way,
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Lewis Darren is out quite a bit more after his
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: time in the box, and that's when he started talking
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: back to Lewis thereon, because Lewis Theren had been talking
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: to him for a while, but he'd never talked back
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: to him until he got into the box. And then
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, he's insane. I mean, that's insane.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: You're talking to voices in your head right before that.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Maybe he's resisting. Yeah, he committed to it.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: He committed to the bit while he was in the
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: box because of the box, because the box was traumatizing.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: And always, as always, here's your reminder. It's only been
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: a few months since the box, right, Like I know,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of time has passed in the real world,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: and if you're reading it, it doesn't feel like it.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: But like the there is very little time between the
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: end of Lord of Chaos and Do My as Wells
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: and the last battle. It's a matter of a few months,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: six months, I think.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which, like, under the best of circumstances would not
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: be enough time to really have healed from the trauma
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: of being put through something like that.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: And he's gone through so many more trauma in.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: The best of worlds. Yeah, this has not been the
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: best of forms for him.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: No, so she doesn't want to go back to She
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: and Suan sort of end their their meeting, right like
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Souan being like, you may be the best Ambulin ever, including.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Me, right, so man also saying like I always believed
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: in your potential, but now I believe that you've achieved
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: that potential, or at least enough to make my socks
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: get knocked off as a former Amberlin. So you know,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: maybe you've already peaked and you might as well just
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: die at this point. It's not what Swan says, but
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: like the foreshadowing, like you're gonna be so good, You're
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: gonna be the best honorine ever. You're gonna live for centuries.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Just like all this like stop saying that, just stops
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: saying it's.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: I plan on living for centuries. Yeah you plan on
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: it not gonna happen.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's a really lovely proud mom moment, proud
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: mentor moment. And yeah, then Agwain has to face the
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: serious trauma of going of going back into her waking body.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: So she detours into some telerendriod tourism.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, and this is where I need some help. I
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: have been looking and what the fuck is going on here?
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Like this is really my Like she's she's traveling, she
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: starts going for need without really thinking about what she needs.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, she's really letting her subconscious do this, which
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: is feels like the most dangerous way to go with need.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Of all the ways to go with need, letting your
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: sub just lead the way, it seems like the most
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: dangerous way.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: And she's not like closing her eyes and taking a walk.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: She's just sort of I mean, maybe she's better at
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: it right that she doesn't have to close her eyes,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: but like that doesn't feel like the wise ones were
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: like this whole thing is you have to close your
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: eyes and take the step blind. That's the whole point
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: of need, and she's not doing that.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Well because she doesn't have a specific need in mind.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I don't think the rules are quite as strict when
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: you don't have like but the wise ones. They're like
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: I need a hold that is this far from water
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: and south facing, et cetera, et cetera. It Wan's just
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: like I need vibes, and so she's just following vibes.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I hate it. I hate it.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I don't like it either, like a very Sanderson way
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: of doing it and Jordanian way of doing it.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: It's such it softens the magic system so much by
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: just having her be like, I'm following need. What does
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: that even mean in this situation.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she just feels that it's true she needs to
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: go places, and like I, as an analytical person, find
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: that very difficult to swallow. Just it's like, you feel
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: it's true. How do you feel that something is true?
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: That's that's called just being led around by whatever chemical
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: is uppermost in your brain, like vibes. Need to have
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: some supporting evidence. But no, she just sort of wanders
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: through a visual representation of the conversation that she just
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: had with Swan that's basically what she does, right, She
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: looks at the physical division of the space that reflects
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the division of the allegiances that Swan had been describing,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: and like she's just looking at the conversation in visual metaphor.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: So there's some people appearing and disappearing is land fear.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Possibly one of them a woman in white a woman
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: with stringy blonde hair, was far too old to be
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: a novice.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I just figured that was a random novice.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just saying women in white Land. We know
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: landfairs around.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: But we also know that these women all dress in white.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, final, So yeah, I was trying to
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: make something out of that, but I couldn't. I couldn't.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Although the other woman is wearing a green gown, there's
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of green gowns in here. Agwayne wears a
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: green gown.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I did not notice that.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: You know what, actually throw through me a little bit
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: because in tele Aronriod her dress is green.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that's trippy. Varren just picks that color by
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: sheer coincidence. Now Varen knows. Varen knows that a guaen's
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: a green, That's why she shows that color. Yeah, it's
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: like I can see the green showing through, and that's
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: why GWayne tends to wear that color in Teleronriod as well.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: And she even has a whole thought in this chapter
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: about how she picked green because for reasons says she's
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: thinking about Gowin, which is that she's like, the blue
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: is too focused, the green is much more like flexible,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: seems to be her her thought process.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Which like, I mean, I do kind of hear her
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: on that the blues are a little bit too tunnel
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: visioned for my taste, like I get hyper focus, but
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: like I need I need to be able to like
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: jump around in my topics. Also, so yeah, Gwaenn's thinking
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: about the division between the towers and wondering, you know,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: do we set up a second tower? Like what what
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: are we gonna do? The last battle is coming. We
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: need some kind of resolution one way or another, Like
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: is that an option? She's just playing with it. She
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: decides like now I'm gonna keep powering through, but like
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: she's literally at the point of wondering, should we split
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: the tower? Is that the way forward?
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: But then I think she comes to the thought that no,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: that's not possible. She would bring a lighta down, right,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Like splitting the tower is just gonna lead to a
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: weaker tower, create all sorts of problems where people don't
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: know who to follow, create countries that are setting up
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: their own little white towers. She's like, no, I have
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: to bring down a lighter.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: But if not, then she'll do what she has to do.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: And it's left open ended what she thinks about what
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: that is. I assume that that means she's thinking she
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: would just set up a rival tower or not set
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: up a revel tower, but just say, fine, you can
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: have the building, right, we're going to go to war
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: exactly the dark one, and yeah, like fine, you can
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: just have the building. Fuck it. I think that's what
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: she means, but I'm not totally sure, because it's better
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: than going to war, right, you don't want to kill
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: channelers on the side of the light, Like that's the
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: worst thing you could do, really well.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: And that's the question is what she needs to do
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: include going to war. Would she go to war to
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: unite them if splitting the tower was going to be
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: too problematic for the last battle?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's that's what it is. It's splitting
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: or war. If they can't and like those are bad choices.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Those are really bad choices.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: And that's why she's doing what she's doing, which is
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: trying to undermine the tower from inside. And I love
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: that Varren recognizes that right away.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I love Varren's commentary on like way to take
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: the battle to the next level, Like, good job leading
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: the charge.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: So she does need once again and travels to this
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: fire pit.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what did she need to know? She's looking for
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: knowledge rather than a location or anything. And I don't
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: understand what the on wagons have to do with this.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: No, I don't either. If only just keep the peace
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: and eventually the strong channel take care of the problem
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: for you, right, Like, that's the best I can do.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: But like, okay, here's my out there stuff. Right The
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: only other time I really think we see fire until
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I run Riodd is when Avianda is speaking with Niakomi
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: and this is another dream world. There's a fire. What
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: does Agway need she needs to, you know, be inspired
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: by peace somehow? Perhaps Nikomi is creating this situation for
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: her with the fire. I don't know, I'm stretching right like,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: but it doesn't appear that she takes a lesson from this.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: It doesn't appear to affect your decision making, It doesn't
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: appear to be relevant. She doesn't do anything with the Tinkers.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Nothing about this prophecy seems to relate to the shan
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Chin taking Alida and the Tower uniting. I have no
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: idea what's going on here. Nothing in my research came
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: up with anything. I don't see anything on the internet
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: that really gives me a compelling argument. Some people have arguments,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: but nothing compelling. So yeah, if you have any idea,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: what the fuck this tinker like? Because the first there's
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: the fire, right, and then she looks, and then the
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: tinker wagons appear. She thinks they weren't there initially. You know,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: it takes me back to the woman in white maybe
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: something with like again. And and this is the reason
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I'm bringing this up as well, is because of the
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: statement from the author, right Sanderson, that Landfair survived and
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: she was doing more. And I don't roll your eyes,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I get it, I agree, I agree. But you know,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: as I'm going through this, part of what I'm looking
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: for is a woman in white and Telerod and Ria
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: doing stuff. And there's a mention of a woman in white,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: and now there's this nonsensical scene where the wagons appear
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: like someone summoned them after the fact. I don't know,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm really stretching here for anything.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I the fire feels like it should be a clue.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: I like the reaching for the Nacomi thing, But why
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Nacomi would care about this random bitch? I don't know.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Watch you care about a fiando? Yeah?
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, right, I do think that, Like they're
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: important thoughts to have. It feels like it's a very
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Sanderson thing to want to have these thoughts on the
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: page somewhere about the way that the tuatha on will
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: dance right up until the world burns, because that's actually
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: the point of living life, and you know, life is
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: for living all of that. Like those thoughts needed to
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: be on the page somewhere, and Sanderson felt like this
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: was a good place to put them. Like that's the
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: best I've got is that he wanted to to GWayne
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: to have the thought about how Mary and Godwin is
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: important and having a human life is important, but also
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: the fight for ultimate good is important, more important even,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like Sanderson just really wanted her to
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: think that, and this was a space he could slot
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: that in also the bitter delicious irony of like where
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: are Rain and Island Aram? Surely they're safe and comfortable
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: and doing their tinker thing, and you know that they
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: are super not you know, the grandparents are broken up
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: over the grandson. The grandson is dead after a life
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: of violence. You know, like they are not happy. Where
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: where all of them are?
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: A quick look, I didn't see anything on Rain and
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Isla after look.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: For Oh, they're in the last Battle. Okay, there's a
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: scene where they are looking through the bodies of the
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: dead for anyone who's still alive. They're doing that, that's right,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: crew that they're like marking people with exes to say,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: don't bother checking this one. And they talk talk about
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: trying to forgive aarm for the choices that he made.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: So they do get a moment.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, and they're still in Parents' crew, right, traveling with
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: that group is what I would assume.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I don't think they're with parents crew. They haven't been.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I actually don't remember when they leave. But I didn't
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: think that they were still with him.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: I mean again, they're not mentioned from book four until
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: the Last Battle, so they're like in the two rivers
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: and then we don't really hear from them again for
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: a long long time.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: So I assume that there was a caravan that took
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: off from the two rivers as soon as it was
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: safe to do so, and that they high tailed it
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: out of there because of being around aarm But that's
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: just my head canon. But yeah, no, they have a
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: pretty interesting conversation during the last battle.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: And to answer your question, yes, Sindane does have silver hair.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: So the woman in white with white hair, you know,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: that could be just her not being herself maybe, I
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: don't know, although I know later we see her as
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: she's pictures herself as land Fear.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I think this was just Sanderson
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: finding a spot that wasn't otherwise assigned to get to
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: put some beautiful thoughts on the page. I don't think
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: it serves much plot purpose because, yeah, it doesn't really
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: change anything about her other than it supports my head
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: canon that this is her just really molding her subconscious
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: to be the omrelin right the tower more than her
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: human self. I don't see much plot forwarding other than that,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: but it all adds up to you know, again, allegorically
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: like you know, okay, Yeah, she's thinking about peace as
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: an alternative to war. And then she looks at the
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: tower and decides, I'm going to keep fighting for it
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: for a few more days. I'm not going to let
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: it fall just yet. So it all adds up to
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: a nice allegory of symbols for what she's doing. Best.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: I got no And there's the darkness on the tower.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I think that's you know, you got the blacknaw Jah
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: and Massana inside of it. There's nothing new about that.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the tower is huge, it's casting a shadow on her.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: The vibes are heavy, right, and she wakes up. She
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: chooses to wake up into a body that is on
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: fire with pain.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Because she's being still being beaten but also cramped in
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: a occasion.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: It's too small and not healed between beatings.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but she does have enough room to sort of
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: stretch her legs out right. That's the thing. Rand couldn't
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: move at all. She can sort of adjust, so different
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: aspects of her body can be stretched. Even if she
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: can't stretch out all at once, she can do her
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: legs and her arms and her back and like curl
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: up the rest of them so she's not totally in
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: you know, cramped pain the whole time.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Rand was literally held in essentially a fetal position,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: whereas yeah, she has the ability to stretch one limb
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: at a time. She's got that much more space than him.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: And being held in a stress position is torture, right,
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: like some of the worst torture.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, stress positions are considered a torture, like any
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: other thing you would consider a torture, which having done
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: yoga and pilates makes sense.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole like holding yourself up or else, if
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: you relax, you're going to cause yourself pain and damage.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Is just like, oh my god, because at some point
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: you can't. Right, that's speaking of crucifixion, that's right, because
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: that's the whole thing with CRUs ficion is you can
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: hold yourself up for a certain period of time, but
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: if you let yourself relax, you're actually because crucifixion isn't
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: the nails through the hands and the feet right as
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: it's to pick that it's usually being. It can be,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: but usually what it is you're tied up with a
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: rope around your your waist and you're hanging from that
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: rope and it slowly crushes your insides over time.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Specifically, it means you can't breathe. That's what it does.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Is it's if you're hanging from your arms either stretched
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: out to the side or straight overhead. Eventually you can't
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: inflate your chest and like breathe, so you suffocate. Yeah,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: and yeah, it's it's a much If you don't nail
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: someone to a cross, it's much easier to use it
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: as an on again, off again punishment. We will crucify
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: you for a period of time or until you say sorry,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: and then you can go back about your life because
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: it's you know, easy to recover from being temporarily suffocated,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: whereas hands through you know, delicate bones and all of that. Also,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: like the body weight tends to tear you apart, Like
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: we have to use robes just to hold someone up.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: It's a whole thing. But people were crucified with nails historically,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: and for some fucking reason, they still do it today
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: for weird religious reasons. There are people who like get
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: themselves crucified. It's a whole thing, very very weird. But uh, yeah,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: it's it's suffocation is actually generally what kills you. I
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: also remember that was in part of the plot device
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: it freakin Matilda was like they got the kids got
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: like locked in the like uh closet, yes, razor blades
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: or whatever, and they had to hold perfectly still or
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: else they get cut.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, speaking of actually speaking of Alistair Reynolds, I
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: think there's a scene like that. Also, like Canus Trilogy,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: there's a there's a there's a box full of knives
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: that he shoves his immortal friend into and uses their
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: immortal healing power to power his devices, but it has
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: to cut them continuously for thousands of years.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Man, People in the real world are fucked up. People
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: with magic.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Are so fucked up. Well, I mean the whole Like,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: that's the that's the terror of immortality. What happens if
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: you're immortal and you're put in a situation where you're
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: injured over and over again, or you know, you're let's
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: say you end up at the bottom of the ocean
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: and you can't escape, right, like if you just wake
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: up round die repeatedly, right, I feel like those are
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: those are the horrifying stories of immortality.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, immortality has a lot of body horror opportunities, for sure.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Gwain does not have immortality, new different kind of horror
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: from all of us. So Agwaine is just staving off
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: a panic attack by thinking about how I want to
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: be here. I asked to be here, this is what
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: I want, this is important. I could leave, this is
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: a choice. Like she's just staving off a panic attack
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: with those mantras, much like I deal with being at
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: the dentist.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: I think this. Also, she keeps talking thinking about Rand
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: and how it hadn't broken him either, And I think
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: there's a little bit of like sibling sibil links sibling
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: sibling rivalry, thank you going on there where She's like, well,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: if he didn't break, I'm not going to break. I'm
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: tough as Rand. I can deal with it.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Which I'm like, girl, have you talked to Rand.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: He broke, He broke hard.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: He might have not shattered, but he got some real
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: serious fractures, like more than hairline fractures. With that box.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Katrine comes still basically pull agwayin out right because they've
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: changed due to all the stuff that's been going on
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: in the hall and with Alida. Aquayne's no longer going
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: to be imprisoned.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Right, she's getting yanked out. She thinks she's getting yanked
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: out for her beating, even her guards do. But then yeah,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Katerine shows up and it's like, psych she's cool, she's
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: free to go, everything's fine, no beating for you.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Katerine gives this whole thing about how like Sylvia's going
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: to be punished because of your failings, which just ends
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: up being kind not bullshit, but just like a real
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: twisting of the truth.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's cherry picked to the point of absurdity. It's
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: really spun hard.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: And Katherine being a dark friend, right, Like, I feel
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: like the dark friends they don't lie, but I feel
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: like they spin the truth harder because they can walk
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: closer to that line and they don't have to worry
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: about being yanked back over it.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, they can take sarcasm to a whole
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: other level, right right. And then she announces that she's
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: the new Mistress of Novices and so Agwain, we'll get
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: to deal with that. And then she gets marched on
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: out of there, feeling kind of victorious because she's like, oh,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: even according to the spin that I got given, I
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: feel like I won.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Just getting out right, I mean, I imagine just the
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: U four you of getting out of your fucking box, right,
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: and then.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: There's that yeah, yeah, She's like I won. I'm not
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: crazy and I didn't say sorry, and yet I'm out
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: of the box Like that counts as a win for
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: the next ten minutes. And then as soon as she's out,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: immediately the Whisper network or the Grapevine kicks into high
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: gear and all the eyes did I who care to
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: know are immediately notified that she's out, and Saren can
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: show up and start to impart less spun information to
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: her about what's going on, because everyone is, whether they
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: want to admit it or not, starting to realize that
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: this is in fact the homreline that matters.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: And remind me which s name Saren is.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: She's the leader of the black Auja hunters. She's a
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: brown brown sitter, and I believe is the head of
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: the black Auja hunting team.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: I think she kind of took it over right. She's
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: the one who walked in and was like, oh, you're
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: hunting black Auja, sweet mine, let's do this.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She's far more direct and aggressive than most browns,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: and very competent and in my mind is sort of
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: the head of the s names like the point at
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: which the list gets diffuse. She's the last name before
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: the list is completely diffuse, right.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Right, right right. She has just enough character building and
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: personality and scenes to be like, oh, yeah, Saren, I
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: know who that one is.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's Swan Shiriam Saren, Who the fuck are you?
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: That's the order And yeah, Sarah like you know, cows
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: the reds just walks in like she owns the place
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: and then starts talking to a Gwain like she's Ombrelin
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: and a Gwen's like, oh, I am not fully aware
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: of the dynamics of what's happening with Alida right now,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: like bring me up to date, and we get to
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: get into all of that political tomfoolery, which, like I said,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: twenty four hours from now, none of it matters because
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Alida is hundreds of miles away.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: No, but but this, this is the point where Sylviana
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: stands up and she hears about how Silvianna you know,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: defended her and demanded her release and you know that
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: sort of deliberately contributes I'm sure to her being her.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Keeper big time. Yeah, Sylviana says, I'm the one that's
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: been enforcing the law on this woman. And I think
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: that she's actually the one in the right and we
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: need to depose Alida. And it's a rousing speech, even
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: told secondhand.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Especially from someone from someone of Alida's adja.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Right, And this is why a lot of us like
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: to like Sylviana is because she so spectacularly she demands
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: to denounce Elida in front of the full hall, not
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: just whoever was there, she demands the full hall and
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: then says Red Sister to Red Sister, you need to
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: be deposed, like right now. And that's I mean, it's
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: hard not to cheer for her as a Red.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: Her.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Teslin and Pavara, I think, are the three Reds that
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: we all can get behind and cheer and sort of
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: we get why they ended up doing what they're doing.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: And I'm find it interesting that a lot of that
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: is Sannason's writing. He does kind of trying to redeem
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: the Reds a little bit and be like they're not
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: all bad man hating people, right, Like that's not what
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: the addja is necessarily.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Jordan started it with Teslain, yes, yes, and he
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: kind of got us started with Pavara. But yes, Sanderson
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: really takes that Patona and runs with it. In a
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: way that I think is really nice because they were
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: a bit of a caricature.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, like Leandrin was like.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he fleshes it out.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, It's why the Leandern character in the show has
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: gotten so much screen time. Just makes me go, oh
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: my god. She was such a chricature of a like
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: we have all these deep characters throughout the series, like Ktar,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: I would think is a much more deep character in
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: the books, right, m hm, yeah, Leandron's pretty cartoonishly evil.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, that's definitely not to get into the
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: show much, but it's definitely one of the reasons I
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: love what's going on in the show, Like it was.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: One of the changes that I love most is like
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Leandrod was so two dimensional and now she is so
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: three dimensional. Like just that glow up is like gotta
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: be one of my top line items for the things
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: I like about the show specifically, but we will not
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: be getting into it more here. Those are for other episodes.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: I just ugh her braids, her attitude. Kate Fleetwood, I
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: just Kate Fleetwood. I did not know about Kate Fleetwood.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Now I know about Kate Fleetwood. Kate Fleetwood rules all right,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: so yeah, what happened with Alida and Sylviana is that
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Elida said take up the dress of a novice, which
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: if there was ever a woman who was not going
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: to say yes to that command, it's Sylviana great because
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: of all the discussions that her and Agwayne had about
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Agwayne's position and about what happened to Shamaren and like no,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: like that was never gonna work. Yeah, Like Sylviana knows
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: how this goes, and she knows the answer to give.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: So it goes badly for Elida.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: Shamarn another s word s name, that she was the
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: one who accepted being demoted to novice yes.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: And ran away to the rebel camp and gives them
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: the clue about the Watergate. I know all the standyesid
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: I just everyone else that I'm really.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Proud of myself and I can remember one that's all.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Right. It's like such a like going through your mental
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: like okay, okay, do I have it? Do I have it?
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Do I have it?
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: Yes? I have it?
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: So she uses this hole this news about the craziness
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: with the Red Aja and the fact that like Alida
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: is demanding Sylviana be executed, which is like, okay, way
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: to undercut your own power structure by executing one of
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: the most respected members of your own ADJA. Of course
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: they're going to turn on you and then and so
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Agwayne's like, well, we can't let that happen. And Sarah's like,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: I mean it would kind of accomplish our goal. And
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: She's like, not worth it. I need good quality people
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: too bad to let one die for the sake of
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: political expediency.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And also like you can't just disband an
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: entire ADJA because of one bad member. We need all
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: the adjas. The tower is built of seven aujas. You
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: can't just you can't retaliate by disbanding and other odjas
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: because she disbanded one first. Like you know, Sarah's like,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: we can tit for tat and agwainn you know, goes
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: with the high road of like ifriend I makes the
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: whole world blind. We need seven ajas, not five.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: But I could see her being like, now that the
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: power sources clean cleansed, we don't need the red AJA anymore.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: You should distribute to one of the other purposes. Like
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: I can see that actually being the future of the tower.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit better now I know they want
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: a different route and been like, go the reds will
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: deal with men by bonding them, right.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean that's super fair. But it's not
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: a decision to make in a walk and talk down
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: the hallway, snap decision. That's a month's long, year's long
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: discussion to be, like what do we do now, Like
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: you can't just disband the Red because the Light is
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: being bad, Like that's if the Red gets disbanded, it's
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: going to be an after the last battle dust settles
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: kind of thing.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, they really should go back to the old
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: definition of the AJA, which we're temporary gatherings more like committees.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: That would be my preference for sure, Like some people
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: will be career librarians for four hundred years, but other
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: people will just want to do it for a few decades.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely find the concept of being locked into
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: a single ADJA philosophically distasteful, even though I'm pretty sure
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: I just stay brown forever, Like that's just me. I think,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: like the human experience cannot be that easily binned.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: For me. It's not so much that like you'd be
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: it's brown so much is like the ad JA definition
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: is just bad. You should the ajos should be like, oh,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: we're going to gather to research the prophecies of the dragon. Okay,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: that gathers for fifteen years and then breaks up and
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: then you're not you don't identify with any adja. You're
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: just on a committee. You're on ADJA temporarily, Like I
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: feel like, you know, that's that's really where their origin was.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: And over the years they shifted a lot and then
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: you know, almost like a political party, but less because
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: they have more of a purpose behind them. But you know,
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: say that the political parties have purposes. They have sort
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: of you know, the Conservative party is trying to keep
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: things the same, right, keep the status quo, right, the
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: purposes behind the parties right party Often there's some sort
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: of message behind the party where they want to do something,
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: you know. But people can join different political parties if
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: they want.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Right, the political parties don't get disabandoned though, which is
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: kind of what the aujas were. More like it's like, yeah,
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: maybe they should be I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. The
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: audo system as it currently stands could could use some reworking,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: much like our political party system could use some reworking.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: But maybe the middle of the apocalypse is the wrong
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: time to do that. Certainly the time is yeah, yeah,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: maybe the apocalypse is a great time, but a walk
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: and talk with very few people down a hallway is
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: not the time.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: And so she gets rid of her guards by basically
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: sending saying, hey, you should probably go deal with this,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: like you're probably needed yeah in your.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Adja yeah she's yeah. She turns to the guards and
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: is like, so do you have you know, aja preserving
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: thoughts about that? Maybe you want to go act on
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: rather than just guarding me, right, and one is Sadai
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: who's not even named, is like yeah, good point and
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: scurries off to do red Aja things, while the sister
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: who stays with her Embarrasscene is like, you're not going
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: to give me the slip so easy, I see what
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: you're doing and stays with her until she can get
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: herself dosed on forkroot, which ends up coming into play
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: with how she feels. So this dose of fork group
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: comes into play with the shaun Chan battle. This is
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: why she needs massive rings of novices and why she
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: has to get voras Sauungreolas because she has none of
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: her own power to work with barely because of this
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: specific dose of fork grouit.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: Now she does sometimes does pass, and she does gain
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: back the ability to embrace the source, right because she
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: sleeps for a while, right like, there's this isn't like
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: she takes forekroot and immediately there's the attack. She takes
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: the fork root and several hours pass.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, she can only handle a trickle, but she
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: can at least handle that trickle.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: I don't And I seem to remember. And I don't
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: know if this was the case or not, But wasn't
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: it when Ninive embraced the source it helped burn away
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: the last vestiges of the grug.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: In her I think so.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Or she claims that it did, maybe just woke her up.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I sort of doubt her word on that. But
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Agwayne's battle goes on for several hours also, so I
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: feel like the drugs are probably pretty worn off by
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: the time she collapses into an exhaustion puddle.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: And it can't be that strong of a dose because
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: it doesn't knock her out right away, so like, not
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: that strong of a dose many hours later after sleeping, right.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Like, but still she's terrified that she doesn't have any
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: power to work with until she figures out that she
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: can link with the other girls, and then she's like, Okay, good, No.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: All I'm saying is I think that the effective forkroot
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: is convenient to whatever the plot needs it to be.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Is what seems to be the answer.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so much so I would agree with that.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: That that you you can channel exactly how much you
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: need to for the plot to work.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I guess that Forurkruit is very malleable to
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: the author's needs.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, let's try to find some consistency on time
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that. And I'm like, eh, if you're
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: gonna be if it's gonna be weak enough that she's
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: not going to pass out, it feels like it shouldn't
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: last long enough to prevent her from channeling many hours
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: from now after sleeping, especially when we consider how much
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: was he anyway.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, also adrenaline does wonders, But uh yeah, all
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: I have is the absolutely fantastic readout from here. Anything else, see.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Just that she's like she goes into talk to when
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: she goes into her room, it's like she's still in
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: this filthy dress she's been imprisoned in. She hasn't been
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: able to wash herself, right, she hasn't been healed, like
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: this is she is grunge like.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, crawling out of a dumpster like yeah,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about that. That what Varren sees
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: when she walks in is just like the gnarliest, nastiest
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: version of agwayn just like hair's a mess, crusted blood
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: on the dress still, like wait.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Why is it bloody? Is it just from the beatings?
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because her arms got cut by the glass of
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, pit sure that she was holding that because
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: they talked about it in earlier in the chapter, like
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Elida did not actually break a Gwayne's skin, but the
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: glass that was the result of the beating broke her
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: skin and that so yeah, that's where the blood came from.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm because really old blood, really old?
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: The three days now like nasty, nasty, I did not
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: think about the stench that walked into the room to
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: greet Varren as she's sipping her teeth.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Is that the the length of time was only three
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: days inside that room, You know, I'm.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: Not actually sure. She talks about how it's significantly less
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: than what Rand went through, and a few more days
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: sounds impossible, So I assume it's only a few days,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: but I don't actually know.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Well, you do the readout, I'll see if I can
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: look at it.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: That okay? Beriscene turned and hurried away, leaving Aguaine alone
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: in the hallway. Not just alone, but alone enable to
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: do exactly as she wished. She didn't get many of
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: these opportunities. Well, she'd have to see what she could
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: do with that, but first she'd need to change out
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: of this filthy, bloodstained dress and wash herself too. She
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: pushed open the door to her quarters and found someone
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: sitting inside. Hello, Agwayne, Varin said, taking a sip from
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: a steaming cup of tea. My I was beginning to
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: wonder if I'd have to break into that cell of
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: yours in order to speak with you. Agwaine shook off
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: her shock. Varn When had the woman returned to the
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: White Tower? How long had it been since Agwaine had
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: seen her? There isn't time right now, Varin, she said,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: quickly opening the small locker that contained her extra dress.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I have work to be about. Hmmm, yes, Varren said,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: taking a calm sip of her tea. I suspect that
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: you do. By the way that dress you were wearing?
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Is green? A green? Frowned at the nonsense sentence, glancing
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: down at her dress. Of course it wasn't green. What
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: was Varen saying? Had the woman become she froze, glancing
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: at Varren. That had been a lie. Varren could speak lies. Yes,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: I thought that might get your attention, Varren said, smiling.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: You should sit down. We have much to discuss and
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: little time in which to do it.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: Fuckar such a good drop, right, Like? Oh, I got
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: chills the first time I read that, for sure?
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I like dropped the rake I
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: was wielding at the time, Like you what you wouldn Ah,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: it's so good.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: And I know she's sitting there with the tea in
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: her hand. As soon as the door opens. I think
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: she takes that first sip.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Yep, agreed. She was just waiting. She was just waiting
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: for the door to open and to see Agwayne's face.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: And then she immediately I literally tracked how many times
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: she so, she SIPs several times before she starts actually
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: unloading any of the information. She makes sure that she's consumed.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: She really puts the cup down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, more
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: than enough to kill her. Yeah, for sure.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: That's part of why she does the preamble is it's
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: partially it's just to get the conversation going. In partially
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: it's to make sure that the hour has well and
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: truly started, that the dose has been well and truly ingested, and.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: That she's going to be able to do this without
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: being limited by the oaths.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Exactly. She has to wait until she's sure that she's
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: at minute fifty five, you know, and just oh, it's
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: so good, it's so good. So did you get an
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: answer to the question.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Not? It couldn't have been very long, because basically, like
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: they brought Alida up on trial right away and then
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: the result of that is Sylviana being in prison and
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: right like a couple of days. But I did not
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: get a not get a very specific answer.
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: Because the time it is bendy, it's fine.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean that's we were just going to
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: go right into the next chapter, right, because that's yeah,
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: that's the exciting part. And then, oh my god, the
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: number of times that she SIPs her tea. Yeah, I
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: highlighted every single one. It's long.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: Yep, all right. Chapter thirty nine, a visit from varn
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Sadai and our symbol is the black Auja faces. You
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: never held the oath rod, Agwayne accused her. Still standing
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: by the closet, Varren remained on the side of the bed,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: sipping her tea. The stout woman wore a simple brown
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: dress with a matron they cut through the bosom, and
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: a thick leather belt at the waist. The skirts were divided, and,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: judging from the dirty boots peeking out from under the hem,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: she had only just arrived back in the White Tower.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Don't be silly, Varin brushed back a lock of hair
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: that had escaped from her bun. The brown was marked
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: with a pronounced streak of gray. Child, I held the
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: oath rod and soar upon it before your grandmother was born.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Then you've had the oaths removed. Agwaine said it was
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: possible with the oath rod, after all, Eukyri, Saarin and
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: the others had removed their oaths and replaced them. Well, yes,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: Varen said, in a motherly way. I don't trust you.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: Agwaine found herself blurting. I don't think I ever have,
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: very wise, Varren said, sipping her tea. It was not
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: a scent. Agwayne recognized, I am after all, of the
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: Black Aja.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: It's so bad. Yeah no, And you finally get someone
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: of the Black Aja talking right about the process and
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: what happens, and it's like, so many mysteries get peeled back.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: I really this is one of those moments where I
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: really love that the mysteries are getting peeled back. Sometimes
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: I get a little upset when I'm like, you're revealing
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: them too soon. But the reveal here is so good.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: It's been building since book two, right, literally since early
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: book two. Yeah, ever since ever since book two, like
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: single digit chapters of book two.
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: No, this this is not a reveal too soon. This
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: is a reveal like the better part of two decades
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: into making.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: This has simmered nicely. It's a nice tender meal that
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: went down easy and was delicious.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Ah, oh my god. All right, So Agwayne decides that
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: there's no point in fighting the situation, so she sits
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: down and allows Varon to talk to her, not realizing
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: that she's about to be very, very interested. She just
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: thinks like, well, there's no point in dragging anyone else
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: into these clutches, this trap that I'm in. I'll save
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: everyone else. And that's not what Varen wants, but that's
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: why it. Gwen sits down, and then Varen says some
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: really interesting things about Laras, thank her for helping me
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: with the tea, and also, you'd sooner find a white
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: cloak marrying an eyes to die than find Laras swearing
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: to the Great Lord extraordinary woman.
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: What so much backstory fodder? Why does Varren have such
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: a strong read on Laras's good evil alignment?
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: What?
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Because she was there when Lauras did the thing where
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: it got her almost to a hanging, remember that line.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: And she's a normal person, so that was, you know
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: what forty fifty years ago max?
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: For her, maybe near to hanging was the time she
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: almost accidentally signed up to be a dark friend and
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: then like noped out in a way that very admired
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: because she had faced a very similar situation and not
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: been able to note about and she actually witnessed Lars like, yeah,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: the surface level was a hanging, but like Varren knows that,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, let's tie those together. Let's tie those head
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: cannas together.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: I like it.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: I've always wanted to tie Laris more to the kin
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: because I think because the whole sneaking them out like
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: I think she was ooth, fair.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Fair, she had an adventuresome life. She could have gotten
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: into multiple interesting things. No, she's definitely kin involved. I
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: mean that to me feels basically canon. That's not even
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: head canon.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: And I love the way Varin is constantly like, oh,
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: I don't think you'd like a sip of my tea?
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Like, yes, I would offer you some tea. You don't
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: want this tea. This is not to you want I would.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: It is good tea. I just poisoned it, so so
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: you know I'm not going to say that yet though. No.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: No, I love the slow reveal to roll out of
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: her just like casually. Oh, yes, I'm a dark friend,
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: but no, i'm I'm actually a double agent.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a dark friend for business reasons.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Oh. Here the room was still in quiet, cold and sterile,
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: as it had been unoccupied for four days. So that's
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: how long she was in prison for four days, so
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: we do have an answer in this chapter.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Excellent.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I love this this part from Baron talking
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: about rand I'm not sure he understands how the Great
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: Lord works, not as not all evil is as obvious
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: as the chosen, the foresaken, you'd call them.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: This whole digression about the forsaked and the dark onod
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: is just like you're getting a little peak behind the curtain.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: It's so cool.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: It's so cool and just the Yeah, and how does
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: the dark one work? Like this person who studied him
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: for that long, right, has no idea what he actually wants.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he knows what he She knows what he wants
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: from his subordinates. Or he wants selfishness. He raises selfish
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: people to the top, But what does he want above
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: and beyond that? To what end does he want all
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: that selfishness? That's still a mischie after she's been doing
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: this for what seventy years?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Sure? Yeah, because that mistake she made was about seventy
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: years ago, right.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So like that's two normal mortal careers worth of time.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: That's a normal human lifetime packed into studying this problem.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: And she still doesn't know, like to talk about essence
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: of chaos.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: And he really is metaphysical, right, hard for us to
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: understand what his end goals are.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: We call him a hymn because it's easy to break down.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: It's easier to grapple with an elemental force if you
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: make it sound like a person but he's not a person.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: He's kind of to reach over to broken Earth. This
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: is like Nastun trying to understand Father Earth, like you
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: can try, you can try, but well.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: And I come back to the fact that he wants
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: Rand to end the pattern, right, that I think that's
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: his goal, right, And that's I don't think Varren fully
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: understands that Rand is the only one who can destroy
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: the pattern. And so there's a lot of things that
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: are nonsense because it's like, I don't understand why he's
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: defending Ran sometimes and attacking him others, and it's like, well,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: he just wants to torture him. He just wants to give
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: him misery and pain.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: And yeah, because all of the prophecies that relate to
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: that feel much more mundane than that inner realization that
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: he finally has. All the prophecies that we can see
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: lead to that realization he has all have much more obvious,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: mundane regular things that tie to them, always going to
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: stand on his own grave and weep like, Okay, that
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean he has this massive inner revelation, right that
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: isn't included in the prophecies. So yeah, it's sort of
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: a missing data point in her model. The mental health
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: of the savior is important. It's not something those people
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: think about, but apparently it is.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: But in the uh immortal words of Varn, I'm afraid
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: I've let myself get sidetracked.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: You and us both whoops too, because she's letting her
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: brown aja routine run one last time. She's just really
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: like doing her last moment of being like the fluffy
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: brown facade before she gets down to the real business
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: of being Varn the double agent.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: This is still important information, right, Like it's like, oh yeah,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: but basically understanding your enemy. But you're right, it's not
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: tactical in the way that the book is.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pleasant for Varn to just talk shop a
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: little bit before she gets down to the actual point.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: No, and this is where we get this thing where
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: she says, imagine my amazement finding you've not only infiltrated
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Alive's regime, but it apparently turned half the hall against
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: itself against her. You've certainly riled some of my associates.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: I can tell you that this whole like she is
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: successfully undercutting a lighter from the inside.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Right, And Varen knows more than most that the Dark
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: is trying to keep the division going right. She knows
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: that more than anyone.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Right, So they're trying to keep a light of propped up,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: but she's just proven to be on probable.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, She's like, it's just like with the ring, you know,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: she says later, I gave you the ring on my
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: own agency. I was not told to give you the
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Turran grill ring. And you did amazing with that. Like, yeah,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: you really you know how to yes and the opportunities
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: given to you.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: So there's this point where she she takes another sip
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: of tea, and then suddenly something about her seemed to change.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: Let me read it, let me read it. Yeah, I
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: gotta read this section no time, I'm afraid, Varren said,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: leaning forward. Suddenly something about her seems to change. Though
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: she was still the aged and at times a motherly woman,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: her expression grew more determined. She caught Agwayne's eyes, and
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: the intensity within that gaze shocked Agwayne. Was this the
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: same woman? Thank you for humoring a woman's rambles, Varren said,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: voice more soft. It was so very nice to have
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: a quiet chat over tea at least once more. Now,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: there are some things you need to know a number
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: of years ago, I faced a decision. I found myself
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: in a position where I could either take the o's
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: to the dark one, or I could reveal that I
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: had never actually wanted or intended to do so, whereupon
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: I would have been executed. Perhaps another would have found
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: a way around the situation. Many would have simply opted
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: for death. I, however, saw this as an opportunity. You see,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: one rarely has such a chance as this, to study
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: a beast from inside its heart, to see what really
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: makes the blood flow, to discover where all the little
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: veins and vessels lead. Quite an extraordinary experience. Wait, Egwayne said,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: you joined the blackaja to study them. I joined them
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: to keep my skin intact, Varence said, smiling. I am
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: rather fond of it. Though Tamas did go on about
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: these white hairs anyway, after joining them, The chance to
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: study them was my making the best of the situation. Fantastic,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: fantastic reveal, fantast plastic explanation, just piece the resistance, cherries
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: on top, sprinkles air horns, so good.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: She's black, but she's not. She's a double agent right
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: for the good guys. And she even says like they
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: had enough people doing double agent stuff I think it
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: was time for our side, and that's when you're like,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, our side is definitely the side of good
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: to have a double.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: Agent, right, and also further foreshadowing to a GWayne, Yeah,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: sometimes you just got to die for the cause, right,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Sometimes your death is how the cause is advanced, and
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: that's okay, sucks. Yeah, yeah, Gwen's getting a lot of
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: reinforcement on the idea that her death can buy the
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: light what they.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: Need to win. And we get that Tomas was a
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: dark friend too, but he's also looking for a way out.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: So again, this is the redeemable dark friend that we
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: got with the promise of Inktar. Right. This is why
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: I kind of brought up Intar earlier, is like he
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: really is kind of the prototypical dark friend who was
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: able to redeem themselves on their deathbed or.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: Several decades before his deathbed in this case, because Thomas
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: has been working with Varn for less than seventy years.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: Yeaheah, I mean just but the whole I think back to, like,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: how was Intar able to aid them? Well, it was
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: the hour of his death.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: Right Yeah, yeah, I'm just saying Thomas has been helping
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: for decades, Like he's just dying as collateral damage to
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: what Varn's doing.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, well, and this is the thing, is like,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: but they were doing active dark Friends stuff. They weren't
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: able to betray the Dark One until this hour. He
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: wasn't either, I mean, not as unbreakable as the oath
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: that Varren took, but still he was pledged to the
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: Dark One. And I'm sure they did lots of terrible things, right,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: that's the thing.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like they weren't being good guys this whole time.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: They were mostly being bad guys, just studying them from
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: the inside.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying Thomas has been on his redemption quest
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: for decades.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: Sure, sure, yeah, he wanted out a long time ago.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because Varren clearly found him after he'd made that decision,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: you know, and she was already you know who she was.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: So you gotta wonder how you broach that subject. So
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: do you really hate the Dark One too?
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, did that conversation happen the first time?
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: She must have witnessed him doing something that was allowable
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: technically by the odes, but is not in line with
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: the selfishness that should be getting cultivated and was like,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: huh worth a risk. I can always kill him if
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: this goes badly, I'm.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: Going to head canon the Varen knows that she figured
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: out that he was trying to get out and didn't
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: want to be part of it, and that's then she
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: approached him and I was like, so, I noticed you
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: suck at being a dark friend, right, Like, one, I
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: know's you're dark friend. Two I knowsed you suck at it?
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Three do you want to get out with me?
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh my god, that would be an amazing, amazing story.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: How did Varren figure out that Tomas was gonna be
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: the worder she needed for this mission? Mm hmmm mmmm
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: someone write that?
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: Please? Anyway more good stories that we would have loved
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: to have?
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: Oh my god? Yeah?
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: And like, how is that when you're Tomas, right, you
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: think you're being so sneaky and like you're never gonna
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: find a way out and you believed it, like that
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: whole saying about there's no man so lost to this shadow,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: we can't come back to the light as bullshit. He's
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: tried everything, it isn't working. And then this kind of
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: little brown sister shows up and is like, Hey, I've
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: got to work around. You just have to be a
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: dark friend for me and help me and know that
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: someday I might have to kill myself just to get
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: the information out. I mean, I guess you didn't figure
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: that out until flicker flicker, but you know whatever, whatever
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: that conversation was.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Well that that is a good question. Yeah, flicker flicker
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: did that? Is that what told her this was her
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: only choice? That this or the oath Rod were her
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: only choices.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've kind of been convinced of that for
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: like a year or so now, mm hmm.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: It makes sense. It's just it's funny. We don't see
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of characters referring to that moment and being
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: like I do this thing because of flicker flicker, right
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: like it was this. I do wish we had a
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: few more moments where because so many characters went through
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: that and it kind of affected them in the moment,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't feel like they kept up with it,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: Much like a Gwayne's shawan Chan trauma. We don't see Rand,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: Matt and paren reflecting on how flicker Flicker affected them.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: It should have, but it it should get it.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: At least with a Gwaine we see her anger towards
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: the shan Chin, and we can say that is an
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: effect of the torture, Like she frequently is like those bastards,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: like I'm not going to deal with them, right, Like
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: that's that's something that I can certainly be like, yeah,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: that's that's the effect of a gwayn Yeah.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: But like Paren doesn't think about it once, Matt never
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: reflects on it. Yeah, we never even get like a
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: soldier like Uno or someone commenting, I'm like that portal
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: stone shit, I don't want to know anything else about
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: my future, right right. It's really partially, I think because
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: the portal stones just never got used again, so it
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: was good reasons. Hey everyone just forget about that.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: About all those lives you live. Yeah, yeah, because you know,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: like I feel like with uh, it's the same thing
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: that the rings do for the wise ones.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: Right, it feels like it's the same, except with the
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: wise Ones, it feels like it's more true. The portal
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: stones seemed like there was some absolute chaos in there
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: that wasn't in the rings. But I don't know, I
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: don't know if.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: It feels to me like you're living a bunch of
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: alternate lives and I want those to be the exact
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: same thing.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want it too. We can head canon that.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: There's enough room to head canon that.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: And that's why I think, you know, you they should
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: have more of their future actions dictated by like, well,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: I know I can and can't do that. I don't
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: remember everything, but I do remember that, Like this is
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: a really bad idea, right, like.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: The way that that the way that paren says some
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: things you just can't change, Like that's his comment after
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: flicker flicker, and you know, he's talking about being a
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: wolf brother like every single like.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: Every single time, Like, right, that's just who he is.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: He can never escape it.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: And rand experience is the same thing with channeling, Like
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: he says some lives he lives and dies never knowing,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: but the vast majority of them heat channels at some
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: point in.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: Right, And just because he doesn't know it doesn't mean
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: it's not affecting his life, right.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly exactly, So yeah, let's let's I don't know
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: why the rings and the portal stones would have a
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: similar effect, but they do in our head canon.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: Well, and again the rings, that was something that went
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: wrong with the rings, right, and it so happened to
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: have this effect the portalstone. Sorry, that's but that's what
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: the rings are designed to do, and.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: The Portalstone sort of accidentally errored into the same.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: Right right, right, because it's because it's really not supposed
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: to expose you to different lives. It's supposed to just
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: take you from place to place. So that was clearly
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: a problem.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: But also different times. Yeah, yeah, there's the whole thing
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: about you can visit alternate realities and alternate timelines, and
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: so there is a whole discussion of how you could
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: maybe go to another world and meet yourself, Like I
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: think Loyal says that in book two, in the first
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: in the first him and Hurin and Brand are in
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: the thing.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: Right right right, because the portal stones are yeah, that's right.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I guess yeah they are. They are alternate
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: world world's valid alternate worlds the way that the rings are.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but what's a dream and what's you know, what's
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: Telerondriald and what's the wheel and from which we right
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: right right, Robert Jordan's dream?
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, you know, in Norse mythology, we're all kind
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: of the dream of a giant role in the in
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: the head.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: Of the right so you know, I mean, Robert Jordan
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: was pretty big.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: It's very true.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: That man. It's always people always like why does he
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: make all the main characters so tall because he was six.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: Eight Because he didn't want to feel like he would
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: be towering over his heroes if you got to have
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: a drink with them. Yeah. Varren explains the loophole.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: Right and speculates some one of the Dark One knows
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: The o's are specific, very specific.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: And then the whole like, well, yeah, show this loophole.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: No true dark friend would ever take it.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: If you are selecting for selfishness, then this is not
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: a viable loophole. Like if if everyone who is signing
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: up is doing it for selfish reasons, they would never
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: take that loophole. It's sort of like a catch twenty two, right.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: But Varn is chaos into chaos as plans. She's a
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: monkey wrench in chaos.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: But I also I feel like in a lot of
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: ways it has this like element of free will in
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: it that the Dark One cannot fully take away the
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: free will of his agents and by because they can
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: always make the choice to kill themselves and betray him,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: and so in that way they are constantly making the
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: choice to stay loyal at the cost of their own
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: life to the Dark One.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a very interesting way of looking at it,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: that there's an element of you are choosing this. Every
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: act that you take is a choice. Every house you
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: burn down, every father you betray, all of that is
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: a choice that you that you made. I didn't make
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: you do that.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: You chose to do that because because at any time
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: you could drink some poison and betray your oaths and
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: go back to the light. And that seems to be
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: like almost a pact with the creator where the creators,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: like you can have followers, but they have to be
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: able to make the choice.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: And also this gives validity to there's no man is
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: so lost to this shadow that he can't come back, right.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: This is the actual, like true factual validity to that,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: like no, there is an escape patch. Actually, you are
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: actually able to betray everything, all the Dark One, everything
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: that you're doing there, you can betray it if you
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: are willing to pay the ultimate price, and you if
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: you aren't willing to do that, then that will just
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: twist the knife of your own self hatred and smallness
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: and cowardice deeper and keep you more sucked into this
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: toxic relationship that is being evil. Oh I never thought
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: about that, but I think you're super duper right. That's
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: that's cosmically correct to have that loophole there.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: Well, because she speculates, why wouldn't he close that loophole?
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: I wonder if he knows about it, and I think
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: I think because it gives his followers it locks them
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: in harder.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: M Yeah.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: To always had the subconscious like I could leave, I
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: just have to kill myself. Fuck, I'm not going to
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: do that. Okay, I'm going to do this evil thing, right.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: I could save this person I care about. I just
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: have to kill myself. I guess I'll kill this person
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: because I don't want to kill myself right.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: Ooh, Because if you think about it, that's sort of
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: we always have that choice of like, oh, do this
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: evil thing or kill myself, right, But like nobody makes
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: that choice because they're like, well, I could just not
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: do the thing right like some people do. Well, Yeah,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about that.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: It's a whole podcast called Cool People Who Did Cool
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: Stuff full of these types of people just.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: Saying who do cool stuff and then kill themselves?
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: No, people who are willing to go into situations that
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: they will not survive for the greater good.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: Mmmm.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, not necessarily directly committing suicide, but being like, well,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: I'm clearly not getting out, but because of the larger mission,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: I'm willing to go in and do the thing.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: But the assumption is, once you've sworn to the dark one,
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: you would not be the kind of person who would
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: make that sacrifice.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: Those people are quite rare. They do exist because a
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: lot of people have made these bargains, and statistics are statistics,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: but right.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: Because because in a lot of ways, like Varren made
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: that choice, she's turning her back on the choice of like, oh,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: I betrayed the light to survive, right, and now I'm
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: backing off that decision, right, Like I've accomplished what I
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: needed to in my life and I'm willing to die
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: now to get out when I wasn't then, right.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: I mean she made that she figured out some sort
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: of yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I mean Varren ultimately
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: made the decision initially out of self preservation, right. She
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: says that that was her making the best of a
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: bad situation. So cowardice was the initial reaction and then
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: she sat down and thought about it and figured out
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: her path.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you could argue that the selfishness of wanting
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: to stay alive was her initial reaction, but what allowed
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: her to then sacrifice herself later was a lack of
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: selfishness and a desire to do good and take what
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: she was forced to do and redeem herself.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: It reminds me of I cannot remember her name, but
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: the kinswoman, the leader of the knitting circle police. No, no, no,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: the ah she wanted to be green.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: Mm okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you're talking about.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: She has an internal thought at one point about how
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: her fear that she would run away from the testing
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: again is now stronger than the fear that had her
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: run away from the testing, and like she doesn't like
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: the narrative, says, like she doesn't realize that she would
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: absolutely walk back into that testing now, like she has
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: grown and evolved that, Like, no, the terror that gripped
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: her and made her unable to finish the testing, she's
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: actually grown past that and now she would be able
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: to do that because she's now the fear of doing
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: that again is greater, you know, And like she evolved
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: through that so like Varren has gone through something similar,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: where like her desire to not die, now she would
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: rather that the light not die, right, Like, there's the
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: whole thing has transmuted and cycled around, and now she's yeah,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: able to make very different choices. Yeah, it's it's a
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: while to know that she she did this initially because
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: she couldn't fathom killing herself or allowing someone to kill her.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: And now she is freely choosing that that's God, barin
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: you rule so much.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: So at this point she puts the tea aside, Right,
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: she's done drinking, and she says, you should be, you know,
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: very careful to make sure that's disposed of. So a
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: lot of this has been just sort of general history
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: what happened to her? I think at this point she
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: really can start betraying the dark one. Right, she's drunk
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: the whole tea, all the tea she's going to drink.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: She is sure she's poisoned.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you think about it too, Like at
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: any point this doesn't count as a betrayal if she
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: immediately kills a Gwin. Right, she can tell a lot
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: of information and then kill the person she tells, right, right, right, right,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: once she's starting to get weakened from the poisoned and
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: she hands over the books. Now that betrayal is much
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: much bigger. And once she hands over the books, I mean,
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: even if she kills a guaint, the books exists.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: That's why I think she doesn't hand over the books
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: till the tea is completely drunk. Right, that's sort of
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: the moment where she's like betraying the dark one.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: Right, She's like, while the poison takes effect, I'm going
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: to give you some preamble and some context, but like, yeah, yeah,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: she's not able to fully do the betrayal until she's
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: drunk enough tea that she can put it down, set
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: it aside, hand over the books.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: I really like this summary of the Brown If we
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: are distracted, it's because we look forward to those who
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: will come, and the information, the knowledge we gather, we
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: leave it for them. The other Aja is worrying about
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: making today better. We yearn to make tomorrow better.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, if I wasn't already completely sold on being
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: Brown Naja when this speech came around, I was like, Okay,
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: I can't do it. I can be a scientist forever.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: I can do whatever my chosen thing is I'm gonna
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: do it like Varren because like damn, yes, make tomorrow better. Yeah,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: and yeah, everyone in the Brown seeks to produce something
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: lasting research or study that will be meaningful. You accuse
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: us of ignoring the world around us, but no, we're
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: just focused on a bigger picture. Like that's so relatable. Like, yes,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: I'm buried in the wheel of time and way too
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: saturated in that. But also it is the skeleton key
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: that helps me unlock the real world and make it
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: make sense. Like we yes, sometimes we're a bit distracted,
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: but the point, the real point that is motivating us
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: is we want to make tomorrow better somehow, and sometimes
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: you need a really big view pattern, mission timeline.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: And to me, that's like especially PhDs and stuff like that,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: it's focusing on expanding the realm of human knowledge. And
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: you know, you can conflate expanding the realm of human
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: with making the future better, right, because.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, you never know, you never know what that
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: information is going to be useful for. It might be
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: decades from now that your random research project saves lives,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: but it's still gonna save lives eventually, Like yeah, yeah, absolutely,
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: this is part of the problem with academia now is
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: there's so much emphasis on you need to have so
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: many results in such period of time, And it's like,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: that's not how this works. You follow your heart, you
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: follow the dopamine, you follow best practices, and you trust
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: that it all is going to collectively add up to
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: something someday. Maybe you don't see it. You can't put
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: a timeline on results. It's just not how it works.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: And here she's like, I don't know how you're going
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: to use this information. Right, I'm giving you information about
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: the block ADJA, including a list of all its members.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: Are you going to spy on them? Are you going
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: to use just the information to take them all at once?
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: Are you gonna, you know, take the important people. Are
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: you going to question them? Like, I don't know how
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: you're going to use this information. All I know is
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: that this information is useful.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm too deep in the work of the actual
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: research to tell you what this means or what to
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: do with it. All I know is that it is thorough.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: This data set is so thorough. That's what I was
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: able to do with my entire life's energy was make
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: sure this data is the highest quality. You have to
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: make a decision about how to synthesize it. That's that's
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: up to someone else.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: And then we get that cool book on Greole, which
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: we all wish we had for our journals. Of course
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: I just end up losing that book too.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: Well, then you got to put an air attack on it.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: Where did I put that thing? Damn it?
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: I hear the beating somewhere? Is it under the couch
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: in the couch on the couch? Yeah? No, I remember
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: for a last the last spoiler con auction we did.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: I tried to like make this, got some like cool
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: books from Etsy and like sewed like a bookmark thing.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: It was nonsense. I hope whoever got it forgave my
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: poor effort.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they did. I'm sure they were very happy
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: with what you did, because I remember that, and it
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: was neat. It was obviously what you were trying to
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: do with it, and it was a good little tribute.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: So yeah, but what's described here is much cooler than
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: what I made, like the little things like locked together
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: and like. And also I noticed we were talking last
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: time about how Varren had to have just made the cipher.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: But she describes both the books as being about equally worn.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: I know, I know, trust me.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: Is that just wrong?
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: I think that's just wrong. I highlighted that and underline it,
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: and I was like, well, it's gotta be the both
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: statements can't be true. She can't have just created the
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: cipher and written it down and also have it be
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: worn out.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean unless she just that book got a
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: lot more wear and tear as she was making sure
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: that it was correct. I mean maybe, but yeah, no,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: I found that strange because we have proper I mean,
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: like she said she had not written the cipher down
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: in book six, and now it's written down here. So yeah,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: the fact that they have equal wear and tear, like
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: unless she like, yeah, no, it just doesn't make sense.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: Let's just assume that's wrong.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: No, And then the fact that Agwayne's like, oh, the
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: cipher's so complicated, I couldn't memorize it because it takes
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: up the whole book and explanation, and it's like, okay.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: Well, she says she can't memorize it overnight. She specifically
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: says she can't memorize it before tomorrow, which is fair.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: I do think it probably took varin the better part
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: of a year to put that together. So yeah, Varren
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: considers this to be as treasure as great as the
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: Horn of Vulier. I would agree. This is the one
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: and only dissertation on the Black Aja and all associated
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: organization's dark friendery in general.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: It assumes the White Tower is extremely important to the
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: last battle, which it is.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure it's as important as the Horn.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's a tough call. That's a tough call because
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: the horn is the pivot on which the last battle turn. Right,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: they are losing the last battle until the horn is blown.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: Right, But also the horn would I mean a lot
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: of things would go badly if the black Auja didn't
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: get decapitated before the thing, Like who knows where the
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: horn would have ended up if all those black Auja
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: had not been identified.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: And I guess it is fair for the iceid Eye
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: to think the White Tower is important to the last battle.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: That's yeah, okay, fine.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: Well, and as shaw may, you'll set up the Black Aja. Clearly,
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: the dark side thinks that the White Tower will be
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: important in the last battle. So you know, at a
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: certain point the facts are immaterial. Everyone agrees on a hallucination.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: That's what's real. So yeah, Farren then talks about how
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: the poison was a backup plan and she was looking
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: for the oath rod, but it appears to have gone missing,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: which I clearly that was for the whole Nicola thing.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: I guess it's just the rebels, the people who are
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: looking for the black Auja.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: I have it, yeah, which like they're like they and
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: they talk about like it's hard to get away sometimes,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: but because like they're putting it back and then taking it,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: and then putting it back and then taking it, and
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: like Varren just happened to show up when they happened
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: to be using it. I find that all very unsatisfying
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: and janky sounding.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: Also, I want a Gwain to be like, Okay, let
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: me heal you and let's get you that oath rod
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: because I know where it is.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: I know, right, Like if if you try to kill
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: yourself but then someone else saves you, like what can
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: the dark One really do about that? Like it's not
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: like bail fire. It's not like it's going to rewind
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: the information out of Agwayne's head just because she got saved, right.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I honestly don't know how that would work, right, Like.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: Which she gets struck by a bolt of lightning, Like,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, what would have happened.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: I mean in the in the show, if they betray
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: those o's, they are killed.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the show.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: But in the books, it's just the oth Rod, right,
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: like it's now. She does say the process of making
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: these o's to the Great Lord was distinctive, and I
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: feel like there's a lot that word of distinctive, So
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's something a little bit more. She's like,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: I'm not even sure getting the oaths taken off by
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: the oath Rod would work because there's something more to it.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing there's a sacrifice of some kind, some kind
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: of binding to the dark One, maybe using the True Power.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: Maybe the One Power cannot sever that link entirely.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: It seems to work on Telene. They have her used
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: the oath throw to take her oaths off and then
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: she admits she's a dark friend. So right, I don't know,
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: maybe it would work because it seems to have worked.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: On Toulene, right, right, Yeah, I got nothing. I don't know.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: It's a good point. That's a good point.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: Fuji has a good point though, that uh Igwain probably
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have the strength to heal her in time because
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: of the Fork group, because we are she is deep
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: in the Fork root right now.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: So this brings up a question that was asked recently
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: on the I Think Reddit, and I saw it. Could
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: you heal a member of your own circle if you
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: are leading the channeling or.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: Would the prohibition against or the rule against healing.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: Yourself healing yourself take place because that person's contributing power
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: to that circle and so would technically be healing themselves,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: but the circle is being led by someone else who's
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: doing the healing.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: Oh that's a good tangle.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: Could Varren and Agwayne have joined a circle and then
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: Agwayne used Varrein's own power to heal her.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're not talking about the show, but if
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: we're going by show rules then.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, we're not sure rules don't make sense? Yeah,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: talk about show no. So that's it's an interesting moment puzzle.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: It's like when Elaine has the her circles being taken
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: out one by one, could she have maybe stormed in
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: there and healed them with their own power?
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: It feels like too much of it breaking the conservation
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: of energy, right, use your own strength to heal yourself,
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: even if someone else is holding the hose.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: If you are the water, and to me, the way
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: they embrace the source, the way it sort of wraps
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: around all of them who's embracing it at the same
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: time without one feels like that's one one. Could you know,
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: just flow. It feels like that would prevent you from
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: healing anybody who was in your circle.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the fact that the glow includes everyone, Yeah, it's
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: one person.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: That to me rules it out.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: But that's a good puzzle to think about. It's yeah,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna fall on the side of no, which kind
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: of sucks, but yeah, interesting.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: It would be a cool hack right in the same
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: way that like opening a gateway a short gateway and
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: then opening a long gateway, you know, hack that around
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: that rule. This would be a cool, cool way to
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: hack around the healing. If you don't have enough power,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: but there's still two of you.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: Right, well, because then if you traveled in a pair,
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: you would be basically unkillable. Right If you're always circled
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: up with someone and you can achieal each other, then
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: like you could walk through a battlefield and just be like,
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: come at me.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: Bro as long as you don't get hit at the same.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: Time, that would never happen.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and also you got to use the kind of
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: healing that doesn't drain the person who's being healed.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: All right, fine whatever.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm green with you. I think it would
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: be possible. I think it would be like a pretty
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: op at that point.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then at that point, why we would you
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: even need warders. Just bond your fellow sisters or like
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: bond a man who can channel, and like, good to
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: go for it.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: I mean that that is one of the benefits of
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: Bavara and Andral right is a super powerful couple that
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: can do things because they have bond at each other
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: that like nobody else can do because male and females
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: working together are way more powerful.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that you could even with male
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: on male or female on female, I think this could
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: be very powerful. You don't need the powerless sword wielder.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: You can just have magic on magic.
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: And especially since you can pass past the who's controlling
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: the flows back and forth, right, like, oh, I get injured,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: I give you control the flows. You heal me. You
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: get injured, you pass the flows back to me. I
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: heal you right, Like.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, So we're getting into Varren's final little
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: bit here. She drops the bombshell that she's sure Masana
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: is in the tower, but she can't figure out who
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: she's disguised as she knows which forsaken it is, just
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: not which alias she's using. That's all she's missing. So
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: that hangs over the Then that really muddies the whole
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: thing with the Blood Knives, right, Agwayne is looking for Massana.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: The Blood Knives are trying to kill her, and she's
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: assigning their motivation. She's assigning their actions to Massana's motivations,
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: and it's totally screwing up all of the traps that
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: she's laying, all the strategies she's got. That's the one
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: reason why I give Gwin a little bit of credit.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: He knows that there's something missing. He keeps trying to
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: fix it. He fixes it terribly, but like he's like,
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: something isn't adding up, and he is correct, something isn't
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: adding up. She's put conflagrating things.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I would argue that's a really bad writing
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: that her. She's just unable to come up with like,
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, there might be another threat other than this
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: one forsaken just because I know this forsaken, like I
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: don't I don't want.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: The tunnel vision there is hard to swaow.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: It's one of the reasons why I think Agwaine is
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: hard to like this part of the books, because she
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: is just so unwilling to listen to anybody who advises her.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, agwaya as the institutional amrelin is harder, but at
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: this point that's not a problem. But this information from
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: Varn is part of what muddies that assessment later totally.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: And then she talks about how she was not supposed
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: to give Agwayne that dreamed to her Ungrell, and like,
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: can you even imagine how she would never have met
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: the iyeal if not for being given that dream to Ngriell.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: Like everything about who Agwayne is now hinges on the
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: possibilities that opened up because Varren thought, you know, I'm
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: gonna just go a little off script here, just to scoshofscript.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: Also, I think it's a nice nod to one of
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: the other few clues we had that Varren was black,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: which is she gave her the onngreo all but kept
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: all the notes that told her how to use it,
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: and we're like, why would she keep those if she's
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: on the side of good. It's like, because she wasn't
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: even supposed to give her the onre all and she
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: was kind of violating her oath by doing that.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know that that how that would have been
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: a direct betrayal of the dark one. Though I feel
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: like the notes were fine. I don't quite see why
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: she had to hold the notes back.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe she was told you can't give her information,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: and so she gave her the device itself. You can
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: give her the information associated with it.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: That would make sense. You can't tell her anything, right,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: but you can give her a random lecture on cosmology
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: and an artifact and let her draw her own conclusions.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: That's fine, because she does tell her about till I
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: run riodd and then hand the ring over. But yeah,
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: she the lack of it. No, that makes sense, that
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: makes sense. You can't give her any clues, but Weena
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: said nothing about objects, and Varen's like, I'm clever, and
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: I see this girl's going to go somewhere, So let's
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: take this Koreanne into deal thing.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: And oooh yeah, and I forget exactly what it was
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: that inspired her to like realize that agwayn had access
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: to the dreams.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: Because Anaya was all obsessed with proving that her dreams
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: and she was like doing like dream journaling like that.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: But it was a Naya that started that for reasons.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: But Varren figured it out or knew about it.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: Varren was just like, this is a possibility. Anaya thinks
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: that you might be a dreamer. So let's see what
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: happens if I give you this Korean and Nadel artifact.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, no harm, no foul. If you
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: get killed, oh well, the dark will be happy with that.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: If you figure it out, it might be a book altering,
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: plot altering, massively important change. So let's do it.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: Fouji's pointing out, that's kind of like the way Moray
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: knew Samuel and Bell all and we never really get
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: an explanation of She's like, and I know there's a
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: forsake and in Cameron, I think, right, or an alien
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: and we never really find out why, Like how did
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: you figure that out? Like she just figured it out
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: through research?
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: I said, die know things.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like what did you know? How did you know?
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: It's that is one of those pieces of information that
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: we never get a source for.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm assuming Varren had concrete context clues to put
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: together over time.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: But right Varren, I would I would say more so
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: than Yeah, that Marine statement, Now, now that Fooji's pointing
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: out like that really did seem to come out of
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: left field.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: Maybe they were just being a lot more obvious about it,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: like I'm gonna use all the Samuel logos and just
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: not call myself Samol, but I'm gonna use all of
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: his quintessential letterhead branding and Marine's Like I studied history.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: I know that I think it had. Yeah, I would
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: just say more likely she interviewed Eyes and Ears who
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: told her about what was going on, and somehow she
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: put together that this is what Samule does, this is
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: what Blall does.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know, Well, it was the dream thing
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: with everyone having dreams of Rand taking Colin door because
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: of the fact that Samuel was or Ballall was obsessed
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: with that happening, Like, yeah, I had to have been
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: in Eyes and Ears something something strange, dreams, strange rumors,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: like she figured it out, but Varn had a lot
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: longer to do that, and so it's easier to imagine
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: how she did it than how Maureen did it. Moraine
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: was just like I have staff. No, I don't like
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: it's fuck kind of eye of the world. How she
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: just knew things. When Varren knows things, it's correct because
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: Varren knows.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: And then we get I love this line about her
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: soul's not brown.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: I disagree so much. There is a white AJA, so
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: do not fucking correct Varren on her deathbed about the
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: color of her soul. Varren says her soul is brown,
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: capitalized brown. Don't fucking interrupt her and tell her that
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: she's wrong.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 3: She's dying.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: What the fuck is wrong with you? Agwayne.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: Also, there's a literal white AJA. So the fact that
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: you said it without the capitol not doing it for me.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: Let her soul be brown. Fuck always hated this line
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: go anyway.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: I can see why. But what she's trying to say
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: is it's not black, it's white. Right that it's one
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: of the reasons why the white AJA is such a
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: terrible color the AJA, because you have the black AJA
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: and the opposing adjac to that you would think would
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: be the white ADJA, that would be everybody, but it's
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: not the white Is this weird logic? It. Yeah, I
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: agree that the fact that we have a white Aja
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: does make this line less impactful. However, yeah, she says
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: like the light itself. And I think that's where it's like,
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: you're not white like the white adjaw, You're luminescent like
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: the sun.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: And yeah, if if the white Aja had been named
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: something logical other than the white Auja, yeah I would,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: I would not have an issue. Yeah, then I would.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: Then it would land for me. I'd be fine with it.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, just say pure light first instead of as
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: an asterisk qualifier would have been better.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: And that's why the white isn't capitalized. She's not saying
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: your soul is white like the white Aja. It's white
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: like just pureness.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: I just feel like Varn knows that that's what she meant.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: You don't need to correct her in her literal deathbed
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: statements like please do not correct the heroic woman as
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: she's dying and making her last statements like God. But yeah, fundamentally,
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: the white Aja should have a different name or be
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: just entirely binned. Otherwise, like the concept of a white
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: Auja when there is in fact a black Auja is
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: just yeah.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, And so what Agwayne is trying to
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: say to the Varon in her last moments, is your
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: soul is pure white, as in it doesn't have a
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: spot of black on it, Like you are not black, Aja,
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: you were never corrupted even though you worked for them,
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: and I'm sure you did horrible things. You did it
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: too for the right reasons and it's worth it, and
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: your soul is not corrupted.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that's what she's saying. I just disagree
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: with her verbiage and her worldview because also Varen said earlier, Oh,
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: I need a pretty special kind of redemption. I have
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: done some war crimes. And then Agwan's like, I absolve you,
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: I redeem you, and it's like Varren already said that
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: she needs more than your eighteen year old benediction. Like
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I just find a Gwain's entire approach
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: to this moment really grating. I just just let Verrett
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: have her fucking moment. Okay, Varen knows what she means.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: We know what we don't need you fucking like definition rookie,
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: or definition of refereeing, like in the middle of this,
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: like just let your elder die in.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: Dignity and what is try and she's reacting to when
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: she says the word black may brand my name forever, right,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: and Gwen's like, no, it won't.
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let my sisters know that my soul is brown.
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: N Uh, it's not actually actually it's not brown, it's
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: white like the light. Like I am a well actually person,
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: and this drives me fucking insane.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: Vers last, the last thing she hears is a well actually.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: Literally, I'm like, as the most well actually person in
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: the world, I am deeply offended.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: I'm dying when my soul's brown. Well actually, shut the fuck.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: And I love this sentiment of like, I get that
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: it maybe will never be a pr thing to say, well,
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: actually she was not a true black Auja, but can
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: you at least let like the brown Aujia know that
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: in the inner history of the Aja. I was cool,
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: Like that's a good sentiment. I don't mean you're well actual,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: but yeah, no, I get it. It's like this is
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: this was worth it, This was worth all the war crimes,
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: Like I get the Omrelin is the person who can
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: offer that absolution if anyone can, I get it. I
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: just I love most of this chapter, but this one's
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: spot It just feels like biting on a lemon.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: I didn't know you hated it that much because like that,
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: that's the kind of line that like in the audiobooks.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: When I heard it for the first time, literally made
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: me tear up, Like that's how much I like that line,
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: Like it really is a good line for me of
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: just that like, no, your soul is white. I'm just like,
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: oh my God, Like that to me was such a
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: good line.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: No, when she said my soul is brown, I teared
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: up and then Agwayne will Actually I just was like,
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: what now?
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: Because for me, that was about the forgiveness right and
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: the redemption, and that the person who successfully came back
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: to the light after being in the dark for such
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: a long.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: Time, lemons, lemons all the way down. I'm done yelling
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: Well, lemons in your eyes would make you cry too.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: So there we go, and with that final squawking indignity,
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: we lay arin to rest.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: The end of varin just so epic. Are you okay?
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: I'm not okay, I will never be okay. Varren killing
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: herself to pass off information. It's just I mean, it's
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I'm so embarrassed. I can't remember his
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: name right now, but Vancouver, Vancouver, this is it, Like
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not Saint Helen's. He saw it coming, Yeah, he
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: saw it coming. He was out there, John Johnson, Ron Johnson,
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: he was out there and he was able to radio
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: in it's happening. Like he didn't even try to run,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: like it just there's just something epic about being like,
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: I see it coming. I died doing what I love
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: because he wasn't supposed to be He was supposed to
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: be there. He meant to be there. He shouldn't have
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: been there, right. He knew he was in a desperately
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: dangerous place and that if it went off, he was
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: not getting out. Like he knew that and went there
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: anyway because science, and his last words were Vancouver, Vancouver,
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: this is it. And then he watched it happen and
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: like veryin to me, it's just like she knew this
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: was gonna kill her. She knew that if she did
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: a threat this needle just right, she was going to die.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: And she said, fuck it, I'm doing it anyway.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: And in a lot of ways, seven years ago the
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: explosion went off, and it just took that long to
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: get to her.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: Seventy years ago, that's what I said. Oh I heard
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: seven she was supposed to dropped the plosive.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: Sorry, or I may have mumbled it, but yeah, seventy
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: years ago she that eruption went off, and she's like,
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: you know Amberlin, Ameerlin here comes right.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, She's like, Okay, so ultimately I'm gonna have to
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: pass off a book of information to whoever is Amberline.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: Somehow I'm gonna have to figure out that patrol. I
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: don't know how I'll cross that bridge when I come
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: to it. And then when it finally came, it was, Yeah,
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: the last thing in the world she would have expected,
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: would have expected, and and I mean especially once the
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: Dragon Reborn enters the pictures. She knew that her time
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: was limited. Right then She's like, oh, oh, this is
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: like I have limited I mean, you know, she says
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: here she was looking for the oath rod. She was
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: hoping to make it work because she is a survivor,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: but her mission is stronger than her survival instinct. Like
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: that that is the heart of being a freaking brown
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: right when your survival instinct is less important than your
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: need for the information.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 3: M hmmm.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: I always find it a little amusing that Rand is like,
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: I've got the prophecies that say I'm gonna die, but
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: so many any complaints and complains and complains, and so
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: many people, though know they're not gonna stribe for that long.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: There's so many people who are like, yeah, I'm pretty
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: much on the end of my life span or I've
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: done things that are gonna end me pretty soon, but
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: they don't complain out of the way Rand does. This
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: situation is a little different, but still, I think about
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: how many characters die in the series before Rand does.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I assume Varns had longer to process those feelings
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: than Rantesse. But yeah, there's a lot of people who
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: move through the plot like, I'm clearly not making it
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: out of this alive, but I'll continue to act fine.
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: Agwayne checks to make sure Varon's dead and make sure
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: she's not faking it. There's a line here where she
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: says she wished varn had come to see her a
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: week earlier, but was done. Was done. Why would a
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: week earlier make a difference? Was that before she got imprisoned?
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: Like why would that?
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: Why would knowing about the dark friends and stuff a
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: week ago have made a difference? I couldn't figure that
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: one out.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't either. I don't know that that would
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: have made it easier for her to get the oath
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: raud or get out of it. Yeah, I'm not really
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: sure what that was about. Maybe just that she might
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: have made different choices with respect to that disastrous dinner
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: with Alida if she'd had this information. I don't know.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: I'm confused about that as well.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: She was just as forkrooted up before.
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: And this is a little bit about before about how
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: her freedom is gone. But that's just because she didn't
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: have any Red sitters watching her for that brief period
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: of time, so it's not referring to a week earlier.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe she would have had access to the oath Trod.
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: I don't see how, But I don't see how, y go. Yeah,
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: she would have been just as unable to heal her
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: from poison.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got nothing. Nothing that really changed over this week. Right,
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: No related to the Black aw Jah Right. I mean
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: there was some stuff related to her imprisonment in Alida,
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 2: but not much.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: Maybe she's just like then, I wouldn't have had to
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: be beaten. I don't But I don't see how that
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: would have changed anything about her interaction with Liida. Yeah,
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: maybe she wouldn't have called her a dark friend.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that's the best I can think is
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: she would have handled the dinner differently if she'd had
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: this information. But I'm not sure exactly what she's thinking.
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 2: So the red Minder's poke in on her, and she
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: lies pretty well or misdirects pretty well.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she does her eyes to die misdirection like a pro.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: When she has to negotiate the fact that there is
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: a dead Varien in the room.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: I wish she chosen some other bed to lie down in.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure what to do with her now, like
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: very true, And she even says similar things to what's
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: her name who comes in later, like oh, Varren was
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: poisoned by a dark friend and came to give me
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: information before she died, right, not revealing that Varn was
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: the dark friend. She negotiates these loopholes with everyone who
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: comes into the room for this time.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: So it's Nicola initially, but then Madonnie, yeah.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: Me, Donnie, Yeah, yeah, Yes, she did say I would
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: accuse you of being a dark friend, but I think
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: he would be ashamed to associate you, or embarrassed to
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: associate with you or something like that. True, true, but
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: that was just her venting. So yeah, she plays off
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: Varin as having fallen asleep in the bed, and then
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: Laura's basically is like, okay, I got to get someone
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: up in there. So she sends Nikola with a little
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: note that says weight.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: And then well, in the meantime, she's been deciphering all.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: The names, right, right, yes, yes, she gets because the
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: rid closes the door and is like, okay, well she's snappy,
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: you gotta leave her alone. So yeah, Agwayne just sits
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: quietly and.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: Reads, and in a lot of ways, we get a
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: chunk of that list, right, we get the numbers of
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 2: all the black odd Jaws in all the like twenty
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: one in the blue, twenty eight in the brown, thirty
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: in the gray, thirty eight in the green, seventeen in
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: the light, twenty one in the yellow, and forty eight
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: in the red. I mean that's just a list of
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: all the numbers of black Aja sisters and all of them.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: Now she missed a couple, right, isn't there like three
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: or four that get captured on the oath rod? So
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: the numbers aren't perfect, but like that's basically, you know,
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: two hundred out of the thousand I said Eye that
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: started the series were Black Auja.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she had like a one percent failure rate. It's
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: pretty damn good.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: M hmm. We get to note that the Black Auja
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: does not recruit from any except I said Eye, which
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: I think we've been told before.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: It's been implied before, I think, But yeah, this is
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: where we get again. We get to see under the
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: hood of how the Black Auja works, Like if there's
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: any accepted or novices who are dark friends, that's something
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: they chose on their own, has nothing to do with
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: being recruited by the Black Auja.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: Were then given lists of Black Auja. I went, I
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: researched some of them. Some of them we already knew
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 2: some of them, didn't, you know, Like Delana's just got
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: bail fired by Rand right as a penfell we know
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: about right, although I think she do a better job
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: of informing Rand about that.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would have been good.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 2: And then we get more listens about who's not black,
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: like not Romayne isn't black, none of the Rebel Hunters
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: are black, or none of the Ferrets are Black now
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: the people who are hunting the Black a jar a
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: Black like, it's more like, here's a couple of safe enclaves.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: Right, And also the confirmation that she had rationally come to,
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: which is that Elida.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: Is not Black's, right.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: It actually makes more sense for her to not be
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: a dark friend given everything else.
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: Just an unstable woman who was sometimes as frustrating to
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 2: the Black as she was to the rest of the tower.
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which you know parallels to the current moment. We
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: can let you draw those on your own, but yeah,
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: figureheads versus movements not always the most connected of allegiances.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: And she's sort of she talks about how you've got
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: most of the time they have put an Ambulin who's
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: not a dark friend, as the head, and then put
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 2: like the Keeper as a dark friend. I think I
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: found another example of that too, I forget which I
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: was looking up one of these dark friends and it
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, yeah, she was the Keeper in New Spring.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, really yeah, yeah, I think it was oh
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 2: man who I forget because I looked up, looked them
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: all up. Uh, Marion is athlon saying.
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: Like, not the one that got stabbed.
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: Oh I know that wasn't the keeper.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: That was, yeah, Miaron Redhill or Myron Mary.
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: No, No, it wasn't that. I think keeper in new.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: Mistress of Novices, Yeah she was. Yeah, she wass novices. Yeah,
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: she and she got killed. So she can't be on
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: the list now because she's twenty years in the grave, right,
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: I mean she might have been on the list, but
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: she got scratched off because you know, dead.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of names on here, and it's
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: what sucks. So I didn't keep that tab open so
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: I could remember. Yeah, duharaa Bashin after being raised to
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: the Amberlin Sierra Vayu makes a slight break with custom,
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: appointing Duhara as her Keeper of the Chronicles.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: Oh interesting, both.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: Are red and Emira as her mistress of the novice is.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: Both are red. So she was Amberlin from nineteen seventy
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: nine to nineteen eighty four, nine seventy nine to nine eighty.
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: Four, and she is black Gauja and still alive and
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: doing stuff a former keeper. Yes, huh, yes, yeah, I
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: guess that makes sense.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: She's the Amberlyn right after Tamara died.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: From the right, right, right right, that was what the
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: gray with more than a touch of red I think.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, she's raised from the gray.
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And yeah, she she had a red as a keeper, and.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: A she begins a rule with an iron fist.
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's much. She's a gray red. She's very much both.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: She's a gray red. And her keeper was Blackaja, which
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: explains a lot of why she was.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: So Oh that would have been the vileness that would
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: have been the era of the vileness that.
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: She was kepre for. Mm hm.
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: And it makes sense that her Yeah, her keeper was
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: black for all that time.
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it totally makes sense that you keep the
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: institution is riddled with black Aujia. But you can have
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: the front facing, you know, lead singer of the band
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: not understand all the sleazy shit that's going on.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: And Duhara was the I said, I who Elidah sent
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 2: to Elane to become her new advisor. Yes, fuck you.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: No, yes, that's the one.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: And then she disappears. We never see her again as
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: far as I can tell.
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: Probably shows up on the fringes of some Black Towers.
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: Last battle, Sofiah, let me google her. She faced to
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: get off against Avianda in with heslam.
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, dplast.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: Battle Avianda torture, Yes, barbecue, Yeah, excellent, So that's what
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: happens to her, so and so like, yeah, we there's
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: a couple of the and a couple other black Aja
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: who have interesting stories.
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: But we've gone over them all so many times. But
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: this is one of those places where we get our canonical,
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: factual evidence for yes, they are black Auja, and thus
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: you can look at their actions in the light of
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: knowing their black Auja. But I'd say that the whole
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: point of this podcast is, you know, leaning on the
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: fact that we get chunks like this. So I don't
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: know that we need to go through every single one
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: of them here, because listen to the back catalog.
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, because they've been involved and we've done
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: the black Aja you know alerts whenever they come on screen.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: I like that we spend a little time thinking, oh,
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: none of our main casts are on the list. I
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: think not because we needed to confirm that they're not
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: black Auja, but because it's nice to know that Varren
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: was very accurate and Varon is not throwing anyone under
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: the bus who shouldn't be on the list. Because none
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: of the people we know are good guys are on
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: the list so we know Varren isn't giving false positives.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: For example, I'm just going through all the black Aja
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 2: Nayceell developed the wead that can detect Sidine. She demonstrates
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: demonstrates it on Narishma m So trying to find any
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 2: other things. Well, a lot of these are just oh,
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: they're in the background with a bunch of other eyesid.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: Eye Miasi, the one who likes the whole nutmeats. I
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: always found that one to be a little like, Oh,
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: she was such a fun little side character. Why does
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: she have to be a.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: Black Oja Nalen has sworn to Rand. Some of these
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: are just literally only named in this section and nowhere.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: Else, just to give a sense of the fact that
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: there are eyes to die that we've never interacted with,
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: Like the tower is bigger than the named cast.
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Chai Melvara Berlin. Those are all just the only
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: place they're mentioned is here. So many of these anyway, Yeah,
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: I don't think I need to go through any more
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: of those. Yeah.
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: I like the part where Agwayin thinks to herself that
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: it's ridiculous to wish that people she didn't like were
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: black Aja, and to wish that people she did like
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: weren't like she thinks about it earlier too, like, which
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: is like Varon like always thought Black Aja would look different.
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 5: Like.
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: It's good to be reminded that bad people can look
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: any number of ways, and bad people can have any
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: number of temperaments and personalities and can treat you very
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: nicely and be awesome and great to work with, And
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: being an awesome, great to work with Parson doesn't guarantee
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: that someone's not actually like literally evil, Like you think
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: evil looks one way, but it doesn't. It just doesn't.
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: And also, being hard to work with doesn't mean they're evil, and.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: That and good doesn't look one way. Being easy to
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: work with is by no means.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like Romaane really feels like they should be evil,
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: they're not. They're just incompetent.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, your ease of working with is not an
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 1: indicative of of your moral alignment. It's just your personality.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: It's easy to assume that people are going to look
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: a certain way and behave a certain way because of things,
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: and no, no, Shiiam is super petty terrible Black Gaja
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: and Romayne is super petty terrible, regular person.
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: So we're allies sneak in Nicola with some food for
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: Varren and the note in the food.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: Right, it was mostly the guys to get the note
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: to Agwain to say sit still, we're coming. Don't do anything.
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: Well, she's only good until the attack.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: Well, but it's so they can get may Donnie in there, right.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: I assume that they're worried that in the time it
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: takes may Donnie to get there, Agwaine's going to take
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: some agency, and so they're like, just hold still. Made
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: Donnie's on her way. We're getting a nice to die in.
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: Just just hold hold and then may Donnie shows up.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: I was like her, I will not eat the food
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: unless it turns out she has no use for it,
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: and it's like, well, she's dead, so she has no
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: use for it. So Agwainne's like, I could eat the food.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: Gwain doesn't actually eat it, though, doesn't she She just no,
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: she just takes the note out and then never it
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: never mentions her eating it.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, I thought it did. Hold on, I don't think so, No,
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: you're right. Doesn't No, you don't know, you're right. I
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 2: thought she ate it once May Donny left the body,
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: But nope.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: She picks up the spoon to get the little note out.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 2: The note out, but no, she doesn't need.
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: It keed up to eat. But I mean, honestly, she
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: should be eating given what she's been you know, fed
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: the last four days, Like she really should be inhaling
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: that soup while.
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: She That's kind of why I assumed she w'd eat it,
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: because they mentioned how little she's been eating gruel and
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: stuff like that, and she does the whole line if
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 2: I won't touch it unless she like, okay, yeah, it's
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: set up for her to eat it, that's all I'm saying.
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: Well, Nicholas says, I'm instructed to warn you not to
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: touch it yourself. I won't do so unless it turns
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: out she has no need of it. She does touch it,
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: not euphemistically for eating it, but like literally like interacts
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: with it in a mechanical sense. I don't know. I
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: think she should have eaten the soup.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: Agreed.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just gonna head Cannon that she ate it.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: And Brandon forgot to include that line, because like, what
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: the hell.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right, She's got plenty of time. It's good food,
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: and she can tell the Red Sisters, Oh she ate
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: it and went back to sleep.
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, may Donnie comes in and realizes that
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: Verah is dead, and then Agwayne does the eyes that
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: I thing of letting her know exactly what happened while
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: obfuscating the most important part of the information, which is
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: that Varen was a dark friend.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Varon was poisoned by a dark friend herself.
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: It's not untrue. And the point is that she came
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: to give a GWayne important information I mean, and that
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: is relevant to the situation.
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 2: One of those is that well, she claims that the
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 2: relevant information was just that one person was a dark friend,
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: but it turns out it's like that everybody, all the
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 2: dark friends.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: No, she says, she just came to pass some important
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: information on. She doesn't even say about one person or
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 1: multiple peoples.
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 2: She just later she's like, that's that's she says, alvi Aren, Alviren,
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 2: that's right. She says, Oh, take Alvirn, that's the information
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 2: that Varn came to me to pervey. And it's like, yes,
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 2: that is one piece of information that she came to convey,
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 2: but it's also a subset of the information she conveyed.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: Alviren's black also a lot of other people.
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, don't. I don't think Very would have killed herself
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: just to reveal that there was one black Aja. You know,
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: I think she wanted to get you know, hundreds of
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: people thrown under the bus.
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 2: If she was going to die, pull it out by
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: the roots.
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, like I'm not dying to get rid of
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: one person. That doesn't fix the problem. I'm going to
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: get rid of the whole damn system.
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: And so then may Donnie sort of catches up a
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 2: GWayne on what's been happening in the tower. Yeah.
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Alida is still omorline that Hall has censured her formally,
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: they informed Alida that the Omlam was not an absolute
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: ruler and that she couldn't continue to make decrees and
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: demands without consulting them. The Supreme Court said, you're not
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: supposed to do that.
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 2: And there actually is penance.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: Wow, what a lovely concept. If we could send the
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: president to do penance.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: Three months of penance, that would be great.
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just you have to wash dishes and eat unsalted food.
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: And work in a farm.
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: Oh God, Our presidents would be a lot better if
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: we could send them to penance on a farm. No kidding,
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's good for normal people, But if
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: you want to be president of the United States, I
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: think that's an appropriate stick to keep in the arsenal. So, yeah,
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: the punishment is only three months.
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 2: And here's the line where I was researching Duhara Duhara Black,
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 2: where were they up to? What is she up to
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: and the other two others or the three together? And
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 2: if so, she could the other two be black as well?
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: And it's like, no, Duhara's just went to go advise Elaine,
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 2: or was sent to go advise.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: Elaine, right, which was done on the down low because
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: and Or in the tower.
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 2: Is complicated, So she's not like missing, she's just on
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 2: DL orders.
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 2: But it was just weird that it never really got revealed,
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: like it's like, oh, where is she? Like she's just
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 2: off doing this stuff for the ambulm.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: Red herrings make finding the real plot all the more satisfying.
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 2: And you have to wonder if getting rid of the
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: sitters was for a reason.
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: Could have been diffuse the power outward.
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 2: Because it's Duhara and then Pavara and Javindra, and Pavara
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: and Javindra were at the Black Tower on that mission
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 2: too from Alida, So Elida sent all the sitters out
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: on missions of the Red ad Ja.
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing about being, you know, an
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: evil person, is that you are doing your regular cover
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: job at the same time. You aren't only doing evil things,
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: you are also doing whatever your cover story is. I
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 1: like the comment about how Elida didn't really say much
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: in the hearing, and may Donnie's like kind of surprised
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: that she didn't start ranting, Like, yeah, it's always surprising
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: when the person who makes a ranting their entire deal
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't rant. It's always, you know, someone behind the scenes
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: is just like holding them by the scruff of the neck.
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, same thing. When when Trump gets all
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 2: sulky and doesn't say anything and he lets people talk
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 2: for him, it's when usually when his party tells him
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 2: to shut up. And now it hasn't done that this
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 2: term much, but like, same thing, right, the party, the
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 2: Republican Party is the only person who can really rain
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 2: in Trump at all.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, whenever they're not ranting, you're like, oh,
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: someone behind the scenes is poo. Someone by the scenes
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: has clamped down and is scolding the front man.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: And then this compromise about how Sylviana is going to
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: be punished.
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it indicated that Elida was on shaky ground, but
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 1: that she could still make demands. This is less of
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: a total victory than it could be, despite the fact
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: that this should have been a knock out of the
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: park victory. This was such an egregious abuse of power.
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: This should be so obvious to everyone. This is completely
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: unacceptable and we need to fix our shit right now.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: This should be cut and dried. Who could possibly argue
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: with it? And yet we've got some sort of mealy
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: mouthed overton windows sliding ever farther towards fascism compromise. It's
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: I hate how much I could be talking about the
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: book or real life right now. I just mister Jordan,
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 1: could you please study history slightly less so that your
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: books do not rhyme with current events? Please?
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: That always people like, oh my god, these books are
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: I'm like, nope, They're just well informed looking at history
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 2: and history repeats itself and that has always been true.
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: So yeah, again, Gwayne's sort of like, I can't take
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 2: the black a jab. I've got to work on doing
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: the tower first. I'll think about the black a jaw later,
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: but except for Alvarn, right, she may send somebody after
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 2: Alvi Aarn.
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she decides to go for one and let the
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: rest go free for the time being, which is a
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: very measured decision. It is not the emotional decision of
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: just like fuck all these paypals. She's like, mm timing
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: order of operations. Got to deal with the tower first,
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: then purge it, which, like, I don't know if that's
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: the call I would make, but I admire her for
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: looking at it from all sides. I'd just be like,
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: burn it to the ground, but whatever, that's me.
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 2: And then here's where we find out that they have
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 2: the oath Rod because they wanted to detest Nicola, which
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 2: is why Varn couldn't get it.
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 1: Which I'd find the timing of that just deeply unsatisfying,
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: because they didn't need to send Nikola until Varren didn't
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: come back out. So like what, I don't understand why
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: that timeline makes sense.
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's related to that. She just says
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 2: we needed to prove her trustworthiness, and the others wanted
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 2: to bring in some accepted novices. They can run messages
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 2: where sisters cannot go, so they wanted to have some
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: helpers who were novices, and so they had them swear
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 2: on the oath rod. That's why they had it. Unrelated
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 2: to all right sending Nicola in. They just wanted some
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 2: more allies and they and it's interesting because they kind
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 2: of swear they swear the oath rod, right, they kind
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 2: of become I said I briefly by swearing on the
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 2: oath rod.
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: Only one oath though, and then it gets taken off
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: right away, and.
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: It gets removed right away. Yeah, so one will assume
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 2: it has no long term effect.
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: And then here again is another instance of no the
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: oath bred works on black sisters, like because Agwayne says
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: right here, like they would be advisable to have the
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: others removed and replace all via Yaran's oaths and ask
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 1: her she's black. Every woman should be given that chance
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: to prove herself.
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 2: That's an assumption on her part.
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: But they know that from Telene that's true. Like it
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 1: just the question over Varn is like, what was Varn
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: a special level of sworn to the dark. I don't
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: see that evidence.
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 2: That's just Varren's ignorance then, is what we have to say.
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Varren didn't know.
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: I know in that case, and that's why she died
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: one time she didn't know killed.
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: Her Well, it didn't, it's not really it mattered because
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: the oath pard wasn't there, so she didn't get a
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: chance to find out.
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and then here's the one bit of logic
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 2: that I wish other people applied. Skim use a gateway,
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 2: skim if you don't know the area well enough, Like
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 2: that should totally be standard operating procedure. So many people
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 2: are like, well, I guess I'm just gonna wait around
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 2: for a while until I can make a gateway. And
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 2: it's like, no, just skim skimmings. It takes a little
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 2: bit longer, but no longer than waiting around for half
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: a day to learn the place. Yeah, right, Skimming definitely
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: became once traveling became popular. I feel like skimming got
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 2: was like almost not.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: It was never used again. It was never used again.
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 1: Traveling should have been hard enough that skimming was required
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: as the usual mode of fast travel.
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 2: A bunch of times, right, right, it.
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: Should have been really hard to actually just gate away
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 1: from one place to another. Skimming should have been way
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: easier and like.
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 2: And also, yeah, how widespread is skimming, Right, Agwayne is
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: acting like everybody knows how to skim, but traveling is
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: really the only thing that's been like disseminated.
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: Skimming has been disseminated at the same rate. As far
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 1: as I know, neither thing existed.
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 2: Before, right, I guess I just I thought that the
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 2: girls because Agwayne figures out how to open a gateway,
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not even sure she figures out how to skim.
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. It's very soft and fuzzy world building. Oh,
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: we're gonna like introduce traveling slowly and then forget about
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: all the novice levels, all the all the tutorial levels.
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 1: It's like skimming was the tutorial level, right, and then
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 1: we just why would you play the tutorial level? Again?
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: That's not the same athalon.
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: Is she skimming on Bella when doing the whole No,
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 2: that's going in Teleroon red in the Flesh, which is
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 2: well in some ways.
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 2: We talked about how that Teleron Riod the blackness which
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 2: is nowhere of Teleron Riod and versus skimming. We talked
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 2: about that a little bit and how they're related.
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: They're not the same thing though, And Queen does skim
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 1: land to Abudar. She does straight ahead skimming to get
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: land to Ebudar. But like, yeah, I.
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 2: Would argue that skimming is in a way entering Teleronriod
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 2: in the.
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: Flesh, aside from the part where it's an endless void
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: you can fall through, which is not true until I
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: run Reod.
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 2: I would argue that's still part of tellrun Riod that
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: in between world space. Mm hmm. This is where I
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 2: you know, I sort of have head canon that Teleron
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 2: Riod is the Dark One's prison or the real world
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 2: like the layers of the Dark ones prison, right that
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 2: you have like the center which is dark One's prison
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 2: wrapped around that is still runner Odd and then wrapped
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 2: around that is all the real worlds that relate to it.
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: And because it's at the center of the wheel is
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 2: why you can have reflections of all the different worlds,
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 2: which are all the different spokes.
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: And I just feel like it's the subfloor as opposed
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: to the regular floor. It's like, I mean, yes, you're
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: on the sub floor, but you're sure in the room,
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: Like it's different than being in the crawl space under
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 1: the house, even though technically you're in the house in
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 1: both cases. So Agwayne very cleverly has made Donnie not
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 1: give traveling to the Red Guard at the door. Doesn't
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 1: really matter because Alight has already got traveling and is
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: sharing it with everyone anyway. But you know mcgwuaene's trying
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 1: to keep opset going.
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 2: Well, she doesn't want them to know about the traveling
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: right away. She doesn't want them to see that. You know,
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: if they saw them walking through the gateway, the Red
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 2: Odjah could literally stop them using like weeps right right.
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 1: But it's also again just that moment of like, Agwayine,
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: you could just leave, You could just have her make
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: you a gateway to leave.
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 1: I mean that's that revelation that she has with the
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 1: head of the Green later where she's like, wait, you
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 1: could have left this whole time and you didn't. Agwaine says,
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: I couldn't have left. I'm omreline, and it's like a
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 1: great moment.
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 2: That is a good moment. Yeah, And that sort of
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 2: comes back to here where it's like, yeah, obviously she
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: could have had made Nannie say okay, now make me
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 2: a gateway out to the rebel camp.
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she truly is choosing to stay and then yeah,
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: may Donnie is given the unenviable task of having to
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: skim away with Varren's corpse and figure out something appropriate
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: to do with the body. I assume she goes. No,
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 1: I assume she goes to like a remote location and
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 1: uses the power to like cremate her. That would be
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: the simplest way to deal with that, I think. But no,
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 1: we never learn, which I think is a shame.
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 2: So and then basically Agwaine has to make her meeting
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 2: with Suan in the dream world.
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she uh does not eat the soup. No, she
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 1: does eat the soup her head cannon and she eats
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 1: the soup as part of because she like washes her
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: face and changes her dress, and like we're just going
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: to head canon that she also inhales that soup so
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 1: fast in between all those other tasks.
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 2: Because she tells her to take the tea, but she
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 2: doesn't take the whole tray, like just the tea.
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 1: And then she lays down on her bed very carefully,
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: not thinking about how Varn just died in it, and
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: goes to til I run Riod, which is where we
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 1: started this episode with her and Swan. Until I run Riod,
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: GWayne opens her eyes until I run Riod and we
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 1: get some nice scenery descriptions about how even shady little
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 1: corners of Tarval and get gardens, which is nice.
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 2: M hm. Reflecting again more just like looking back at
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 2: all the time was thinking about Shariam as a dark friend?
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 2: Was she the one behind the attack of the Gray
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 2: Man so long ago? Yes, we're getting basically confirmation of.
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 1: That here, right. It makes you remember that line from
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 1: Nineve Shariam never asked who stabbed the gray Man? Yeah,
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 1: Nineve was onto something because it was Shariam. Yeah, Shiim
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 1: is the most relevant dark friend in terms of Agwayne's
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 1: own plot and her rise to power and her interactions.
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 1: Like everyone else is relatively distant, Shiiam has been up
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: close and personal since book two.
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: And she thinking about all the people who supported or
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 2: rise to power, and how many of them were Dark friends. Right,
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 2: I mean it's just like, good God, I can't think
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 2: about all the stuff that may have been influenced by
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 2: the Dark One, because clearly the breaking of the tower
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 2: was his desire.
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, at this great line, how the Dark One must
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: have laughed to say, two rival ambulins, each with his
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: loyal minions at her side, pitting them against one.
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 2: Another, and so like, it doesn't really matter what the
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 2: minions are doing. The result is obviously the breaking of
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 2: the White Tower.
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, and it's also like a weird exercise
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 1: in futility to sit to second guess every single thing
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 1: you've ever done. Oh, how much of this is the
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: dark one? How much am I just a dark one puppet? Like,
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 1: on the one hand, yes, it's an exercise in futility,
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: but also it's not wrong to look for the fault
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: lines and the chain of custody of various decisions like
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 1: it does. I mean she even makes the argument later,
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: right that like if you know that there was a
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: dark friend who raised an omerelin, then it was an
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 1: illegal In Elida's case, because she did the minimum number,
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: it was like illegal, right, and so like it's not
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: always an exercise and futility to run the clock backwards,
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 1: but it also is like the road to madness because
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 1: it's the dark one.
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 2: No, and that's why I like Elida's raising. It's like
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 2: you can claim it was irrelevant, but then you really
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: have to claim like every decision by every Amerland supported
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: by any black aja was irrelevant. So and then that
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: is the exception because it was the minimum number, right,
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 2: Because then you're saying, well, there's even one.
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 1: Black a ja yeah, which is like, I mean, but.
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 2: The problem is you have one fifth of the fucking
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: White Tower is black. So every decision one fifth of
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 2: the people on there, Like what are they voting for?
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: Like what's are they being influenced by the dark right?
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 2: Like then I'm assuming for the most part the decisions
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 2: being made are being made according to their day job,
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: as you were saying earlier, right, like mostly their voting
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 2: with who they claimed to be. But just like money
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 2: in politics, right, the dark one in the White Tower,
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 2: sometimes they make a vote that doesn't make any sense
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 2: and you realize, oh, it's because they were trying to
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: make some money or trying to accomplish a goal for
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 2: the dark one. And people make votes all the time
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 2: for reasons that you don't understand, So you can't be
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 2: like that vote was because of the dark one. But
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 2: the trend is there.
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: It's almost like climate change. It's really hard to prove
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 1: anyone given storm was the result of climate change, but
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: the overall increase in storms is clearly climate change. It's
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 1: kind of like that, And what I.
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 2: Can say is the intensity of every storm is probably
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 2: greater due to climate change. And so what would have
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 2: been like a breeze becomes a storm. What would have
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 2: been a storm becomes a hurricane, What would have been
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 2: a hurricane becomes a super hurricane. Right, And because you
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 2: always have things that are more common in the lower categories,
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 2: everything gets bumped up, and so everything more intensity happens
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 2: more often.
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 1: Right, And you know, one assumes that that's a lot
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 1: of what the Dark One and the Black Ajar are
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 1: leaning on.
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 1: You take a fine plan and you just make it
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: a little worse. You just drag it down a little bit,
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: and then the cumulative effect is that the tower is
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: just weirdly ineffective at doing everything it tries to do.
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 2: It's like, what's the how do you prevent anyone from
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 2: doing work? Will you make everything be decided by committee?
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 2: You make it pass through a lot of hoops. You
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 2: just you make everything as in if you follow orders
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 2: to the tea, even if they don't necessarily make sense
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 2: in the situation. Right, Like, there's a lot of ways
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 2: in which following orders can make things more incompetent.
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 1: Malicious compliance is a good way to fuck with a system,
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 1: yes or yes, stochastic sabotage.
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 2: Right, And I feel like the Black Ajaw is great
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 2: at those things, especially in the White Tower.
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, it's the easiest way to mess
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 1: with the system is just to pull an Amelia Badilia
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 1: on it.
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 2: I am always amazed though that those when I see
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 2: those descriptions of how to fuck up a system, that's
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: exactly how corporations are run.
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, maybe there's something to that.
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: It's almost like corporations aren't actually accomplish anything and are
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 2: just providing a space where people can spin their wheels
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 2: and keep busy.
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 1: How dare you? Corporations are people? They have feelings.
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 2: I'd like to feel them die.
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like to feel them get stuck in a
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 1: minimum wage job in a single bitch in the apartment
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 1: and not be able to move out. All right. So
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: Agwaine and Swan are talking until I run Riod and
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 1: she's giving Swan a bit more of a download than
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 1: she gave to May.
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 2: Donnie says Shiriam and Maria are Black aja right, and
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 2: then says, I've got a bunch more. But I'm certain
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 2: about these two and they need to be watched.
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 1: Why Maria is she's a blue object who's been around forever, right,
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: like she's in New Spring.
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure not as far as I can tell.
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 1: She's not not one of the young people. She's not
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: one of the young people that make up most of
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: the plot. She's been around for centuries. Oh, she's not
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 1: in the she's not in New Spring, never mind.
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 2: But she did was one of the ones who voted
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 2: in Agwayne. She's initially in Lord of Chaos. It looks
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 2: like electing a GWayne as amberline.
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, Because she's a blue, right, she's very dedicated
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 1: to the cause of the rebellion in terms of the
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 1: actions that she can take publicly. She is leading the
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 1: charge on we got to do this rebellion thing and
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: supporting Agwayne and all that, much like Sheiria.
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it really does seem to be. She's mostly
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 2: just a blue who has supported a GWayne a lot
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 2: in the rebel camp. But for the most part, her
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 2: chronology is being in groups with all the sisters, So
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 2: I don't see a lot of her doing anything. She voted,
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 2: she voted yes for the war power. She just looks
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 2: like she was she's been in the council and has
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 2: stood for a bunch of important votes as a sitter
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 2: of the hall. So I think she just just because
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 2: she's a sitter, that's my assumption.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, she's been a sitter for like longer than most
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 1: of our cast has been alive.
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 2: It's cool.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: So yeah, she gets to communicate that information, and Swan's like, okay,
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: I hope you know what you're doing, and Igwinn says, no,
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 1: I totally know what I'm doing.
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 3: It's cool.
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm getting a call what and then gets sucked
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 1: out of till Irene Regutt Like they don't have much
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 1: of a conversation before she gets pulled out.
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, it's it's really basic and that and that
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 2: being pulled out is Nikola waking her up because the
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 2: White Tower is being attacked.
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 1: Right, because she's not in like a drugged or a
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 1: magic sleep to get to tell Irren reout. She's just
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 1: in the ideal dream walker sleep. But you know you
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 1: can be woken up out of with relative ease, and yeah,
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 1: so Swan sees her looks startled and then vanished. She
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: assumes that Alida has decided because she had just asked
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 1: a GWayne, are you still imprisoned? And Agwaine says not
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 1: exactly and then vanishes. So Swan makes the logical leap
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 1: that thing I said in the last chapter, where Alida
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 1: can turn on you faster than a you know, summer storm,
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 1: that's happening. She assumes that that is a GWayne getting
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 1: given a moment of reprieve and then getting yoinked to
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 1: the headsman's block, and that, in her mind justifies getting
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 1: Gowin and Gareth Brann and a hundred soldiers to go
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 1: on an incursion boo. Also the attack on the White
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 1: Tower helps her justify it. But like this is the
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: fear that motivates her to do that.
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 2: It's like she is in danger. She got yanked out
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 2: of the dream in an uncontrolled way, and there's an
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 2: attack clearly going on at.
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 1: The White Tower, which I'm like, don't you think that
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 1: if there's an attack going on at the White Tower,
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 1: Alida probably isn't going to take the time to execute
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 1: a GWayne midway through being attacked. Don't you think that
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 1: maybe the execution would have been put on ice until tomorrow?
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 2: Nope?
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 1: But whatever Swan is looking for an excuse, and she's
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 1: not held by the Oaths, so logic does not have
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 1: to hold up as well as we might think.
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 2: It does as well as it should.
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't think the Oths would have let
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 1: her make this level of betrayal because she is stretching
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 1: hard for her justification for this. And the only reason
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 1: that Gawain goes along with is because he's dumb. And
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 1: the only reason that Garin Gareth Bring goes along with
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 1: it is because he's in love with Swan. Like, the
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 1: logic of this is not here. No one is checking
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 1: this logic properly and holding it to a real standard, and.
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 2: That do you want to read us out?
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is what I was saying at the beginning. Guys,
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 1: this is a cliffhanger as bad as your dress is green.
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 1: But there are only so many brain cells in a
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 1: day for us to record with. So we're gonna have
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 1: to leave you on this fantastic cliffhanger and we'll do
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 1: another double header chapter next time for the Battle of
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 1: the White Tower. Yeah, something was pulling on her mind,
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 1: clouding it. Something was pulling her back Telerenriade winked away
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 1: and Agwayne opened her eyes back in her room and
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 1: anxious Nicholas shaking her arm. Mother, she was saying, Mother,
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 1: the girl had a bloody gash in her cheek. Agwaine
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 1: sat up sharply, and at that moment, the entire tower shook,
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 1: as if from an explosion. Nikola grabbed her arm yelping
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: in fright, what is going on? Agwayne demanded, Shadows spawn?
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 1: Nikola cried in the air, serpents that throw flame and
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 1: weaves of the one power. They're destroying us. Oh, mother,
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 1: it's Tarman Guidan. Agwaine felt a moment of primal near
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 1: the uncontrollable panic Tarman Guidan. The last battle. She heard
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 1: screams in the distance, followed by the shouts of soldiers
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 1: or warders. No, no, she needed to focus Serpents in
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 1: the air, serpents that wielded the One Power, or with
• 2:21:41
  Speaker 1: riders that wielded the one Power. Agwayne threw off the
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 1: blanket and leaped to her feet. It wasn't Tarman Guarden,
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 1: but it was nearly as bad. The shan Chin had
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 1: finally attacked the White Tower, just as Agwaine had dreamed,
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 1: and she couldn't channel enough power to light a candle,
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 1: let alone fight back.
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 2: And next time the Battle of the White Tower.
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 1: Come back next week. Yeah, a big old action scene.
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 1: We're gonna be screaming and throwing things. It's gonna be great.
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 1: I'm super excited.
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 2: If these were like the ultimate Varren chapters, I feel
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 2: like the next ones are ultimate Agwuayne chapters.
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Well, because Varren comes to her as Omorlin,
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 1: she says, my mission as a Brown is to arm
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 1: the Omrelind with knowledge. Here you go, and Awayne turns
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 1: right the fuck around, and just Ombrelin's at the Shan
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: channel so hard.
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 2: Oh right, so good, so good, even more so than
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 2: her moments in the Last Battle.
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 1: The last battle is just a slow rolling train wreck
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 1: for Aguayinne. This is her in her power, in her victory.
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 1: She didn't need no damn ward.
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about that next week, all.
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: Right, see you guys next week. Thank you so much.
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 1: Figures up for it.
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 3: Bye.
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 2:23:45
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• 2:23:47
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• 2:23:52
  Speaker 1: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 2:23:55
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• 2:23:58
  Speaker 1: at Fox and raven media dot com