Latest / Millennial Mustard Seed / S5 109. Paul J. Fowler – Nephilim & Thrones of the Watchers

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S5 109. Paul J. Fowler – Nephilim & Thrones of the Watchers · Millennial Mustard Seed

0:01
Hello folks. This is Princess.
0:03
You are listening to the Millennial Mustard Seed Podcast.
0:06
Thanks for listening. Don't forget to share with your
0:09
friends. That's tough.
0:11
We're in a very tough spot. I think that what we're doing
0:15
right now is a great benefit and virtue because it's an end
0:19
around between this whole corrupt informational system,
0:23
media system. We claim to believe in a God who
0:27
spoke the universe into existence and literally raised
0:30
himself from the dead, and yet we're not going to believe that
0:34
anything else exists in the spirit realm, even though his
0:37
word tells us that they do. Their bodies weren't permitted
0:41
to go to sleep like humans do, and they weren't permitted to go
0:45
to heaven, so they wander the earth.
0:49
You know, I've seen the eyes turn black to unknown tongues
0:52
being spoken. These giants would love way up
0:56
in the Highland. The young Braves, the young men
0:59
would hide up in the trees and wait for one of these 12 footers
1:02
to come walking down the path. And they would jump on them and
1:05
kill them, drag them back to the village, and the village would
1:08
feast on the body freedom. Then people start to get
1:16
weapons. They start to get armor.
1:17
They start to build cities. They start to.
1:19
Fortify their cities. Now God looks down and there's
1:22
violence everywhere. The battle, this war that we are
1:26
at, is not against each other. It's against these
1:29
principalities and these rulers and these archons in the high
1:31
places. It's really worthwhile to read
1:34
the Bible yourself. Fear.
1:36
Is one of the. Primary drivers of mind control
1:39
because we have to take every thought captive and resist fear.
1:47
You're going to have a testimony that is a justice case against
1:52
the Kingdom of Darkness. Welcome back to The Millennial
2:11
Mustard Seed. I am your host Rod and thank you
2:14
for being here with me again for another episode.
2:18
I have author and pastor from Texas Paul Fowler here.
2:23
He wrote quite an interesting book called Thrones of the
2:26
Watchers. We have a pretty neat
2:28
conversation just regarding this whole Nephilim overview, what
2:34
the Bible says about it, what he wrote in this book in order to
2:38
help people digest these topics that are in the Bible, that
2:42
really are manifesting before our eyes, that we need to be
2:45
more aware of, especially for the days ahead.
2:48
You know, here on this podcast for last five years I've covered
2:51
this information. I've asked questions, I've
2:54
relentlessly pursued the truth because I know what I read in
2:59
God's Word. I know what God spoke to me
3:01
years ago and so I stay on the tight and narrow and the
3:04
difficult path. It has not been an easy season
3:08
for me recently coming into 2024, but I'm still here.
3:14
I'm not defeated, and I have plenty more to come.
3:17
God willing in his timing, I'll get those episodes out to you
3:21
guys. Don't forget to subscribe to
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I'm trying to get back to all you guys.
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I appreciate all the love and the support and we plan on
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I'm dying to the identity of what I want this podcast to be,
3:58
this ministry. And I'm open to the idea of what
4:01
God wants to do with it, because that's the only way to do it the
4:05
right way in my opinion. But for right now, I'm excited
4:09
to jump into this episode with Paul Thrones of The Watchers.
4:13
I'm ready, you guys. Ready?
4:16
Let's. Go.
4:16
Let's go. Hi, this is Paul Fowler.
4:31
I am a pastor from Texas and I am the author of a book called
4:36
Thrones of the Watchers. Welcome to the Millennial
4:39
Mustard Seed Podcast. Paul, it is an honor to be with
4:45
you, bro. I'm glad we got connected
4:47
through PJC Media. Wow, thank you so much.
4:50
Hats off to Parker. She's she's great.
4:53
What I want to do is just kind of give you some room to lay a
4:55
foundation and you wrote a pretty interesting book.
4:59
I have not had time to read it yet, but I already have an idea
5:02
what's going on. We talked on the phone, off air.
5:05
I'm like, Yep, this is good. We this is the kind of content
5:08
that needs to be reintroduced to the church.
5:12
So just give us the 30,000 foot overview of who you are and kind
5:15
of how you became the Paul you are today?
5:18
I I grew up in a military home. My dad was an army officer and
5:23
so I did move around a lot early and books were but just a refuge
5:28
for me so and my parents were real supportive of me reading so
5:32
that was that was a really good thing.
5:35
Eventually felt the call to ministry became a pastor was a
5:39
profound Pagan for several years before I had a real serious
5:44
conversion in in my college years even though I was raised
5:48
in the Christian home but I did really stray for for quite a
5:51
while. Eventually felt the call to
5:54
preach and love that the Bible narrative is is more you know
6:01
for lack of a better word, masculine and aggressive than I
6:05
expected, you know, from my childhood experiences.
6:08
And so in particular Genesis chapters 3 and chapter 6 caught
6:16
my imagination and from there I began to realize that there is a
6:20
lot going on in in a few verses and they deserve to be explored
6:25
a little bit more. So instead of writing what I
6:31
kind of jokingly call but it's it's not a joke pastoral self
6:34
help books. I decided you know we don't need
6:38
another book on theology. I think I'm going to write a
6:41
fictional story and trying to get into what what was the world
6:47
like that's being described in Genesis 3 through 6.
6:50
What we call the pre flood world maybe, or the antediluvian world
6:54
if you want to use a really big word.
6:56
And the more I researched it, the stranger it got and the more
7:01
I realized the early church relied on this story as a big
7:04
part of their world view. And so the deeper I got into it,
7:08
the more interesting it got. And I decided there's no need to
7:12
try to make this any stranger. You know, from a from a story
7:15
standpoint, it's as strange as you can get right in the Jewish
7:19
histories and in the Bible itself.
7:21
So I started the journey writing this book.
7:26
It's, it is literally what was Adam and his family doing at
7:32
this certain stage in history. And when you you dive into the
7:36
story, you realize we've got fallen angels, we've got good
7:41
angels, we've got humans trying to survive in an environment
7:46
where fallen angels have taken wives, they've bred children,
7:49
they've bioengineered monsters and super soldiers and it's
7:54
violence and bloodshed and somehow God's got a group of
7:58
people that survive all of this. And so the template for great
8:02
story was there and I released the the first installment in
8:07
2020 during COVID and I'm just not too far away from from
8:13
getting the follow up out and the follow up will be called
8:15
bloodlines and and they'll be a third one as well which I've
8:18
kind of already gotten a lot of that one in the can.
8:21
So. So that's sort of the the big
8:25
picture to to get here a lot of things that I was fortunate to
8:30
do as a as a young person and later kind of get folded into
8:34
into the book. I I did wrestling and fencing
8:39
which is sword fighting in Texas.
8:42
Fencing is putting up fences, but in some places fencing is
8:45
sword fighting. I taught at Boy Scout camp and
8:51
and I grew up in a hunting family.
8:53
So there's just a lot of elements that were just sort of
8:55
part of my life that were real easy to to marry with theology
8:59
and some of the biblical truths and and hopefully write a
9:03
compelling story that stands on its own as just a good adventure
9:07
story, but also starts introducing, you know, Jesus
9:12
says in in Matthew 24 and then Luke 17, when he returns, it
9:16
will be like it was in the days of Noah.
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And so there are some things about the days of Noah that only
9:23
our generation can say are happening.
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And that's a pretty profound thought.
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It doesn't get discussed a lot in eschatology, but I think
9:30
there's some really important clues there that we need to get
9:33
our heads around and be prepared to have some conversations about
9:37
some strange topics. But they're right in our lap and
9:41
our life experience right now and it's going to even, you know
9:44
it's going to continue to speed up and grow and.
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Jeez, I don't know if you cut out or if you had stopped
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talking. Sorry about that.
9:50
No, no, I stopped talking for a second.
9:52
I need to. Just kind of out the gate, man,
9:56
you know, being a pastor and digesting this kind of content.
10:00
And I really like how you said it's like a self help book for
10:02
pastors in a sense. You know, just add a little bit
10:05
of humor to it because really the Bible is is there for our
10:08
teaching, our edification, our doctrine, right.
10:11
And so pulling these threads out is really important for the
10:16
masculine heart, especially because I believe masculinity is
10:19
coming back into the church Tacklesia right.
10:22
The women held it down for a long time in many ways across
10:25
the broad spectrum. And now we kind of see men
10:28
getting re familiar with these ideas and that there's a battle
10:32
to fight a beauty to save, right, that we're called to a
10:34
higher calling in Jesus Christ and it it actually becomes a
10:37
story that we get captured up into.
10:40
Really my question is how did how did your congregation handle
10:42
this where you guys kind of always have space and it just
10:45
kind of morphed into you wrote a book about it or did you have to
10:49
introduce this concept? I think you know, depending upon
10:54
what your church experience is like, I've kind of lived in both
10:57
worlds. I grew up in a liturgical
10:59
setting and the church I pastor is a non denominational, you
11:03
know, type church. So we live in a very traditional
11:07
town and so even to be you know what the church would call it
11:13
charismatic church in the backdrop of lots of traditional
11:17
churches already sort of puts you in a different category.
11:20
But you know I find this topics even bigger than than sort of
11:25
those labels and and and groupings.
11:29
You know as a pastor we got to preach the whole council.
11:31
We got, we got to we have to be balanced.
11:33
So I can't spend all my time here with my church body that's
11:37
not, you know, I wouldn't be a healthy diet, but my church
11:41
bodies, you know, they're they're they're pretty they're
11:44
pretty open. And when when addressing this,
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you really, if you can't explain the theological significance of
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it, then you sort of need to regroup and work on that aspect
11:55
of the message. So you know, you're introducing
11:58
the weird, but you have to you have to connect the dots to this
12:04
is what's going on in your world and it's not going away.
12:07
You know what we might think of as, as I've noticed, the word
12:11
seems to be changing lately, but transhumanism was the word for a
12:14
while, and they seem to be realizing that word is is
12:18
starting to get a bad connotation.
12:19
So what I'm seeing now is human engineering.
12:21
That's a new, a new phrase that I seem to have heard in the
12:24
last, you know, few months. So we're going to be facing
12:29
topics, you know, facing moral issues, dilemmas, questions
12:33
about what does it mean to be human.
12:35
And so there's a relevance there that transcends the weirdness of
12:39
the topic. You just have to hit it sort of
12:42
sparingly and and and repeat it. And that's kind of true of
12:50
anything, You know, as a pastor, it's like, well, I'm going to
12:53
preach a sermon on forgiveness. Well, you're probably going to
12:54
preach a sermon on forgiveness frequently.
12:57
You know, may not be the exact same sermon, but there's themes
13:00
you're going to revisit because they're essential.
13:03
And so this is an essential theme.
13:05
So we revisit it. We've done some seminar type
13:08
stuff where we could dive deeper and and it's a little better
13:13
absorbed in that and we'll probably do another one soon
13:16
because the last time we did one we had all sorts of people that
13:18
don't go to our church show up. So as you know this, this topic
13:23
is not slowing down. You know, we might have thought
13:26
this is going to run its course, and this topic's not going away.
13:29
The the Genesis 6, you know, implications.
13:35
What does it mean to be human? Where is the line that you cross
13:39
where you're not human anymore, And what does that mean?
13:42
And Christ died to save humanity.
13:45
But what if you allow yourself to be engineered into something
13:49
else? What are the implications of
13:50
that? And I think one of the mistakes
13:55
we can make is we can reflexively think, oh, this
13:58
human engineering stuff is going to be all bad.
14:00
We need to just to completely avoid it.
14:02
And actually, I think there'll be some great things that come
14:04
out of it that are beneficial. But I also know evil people and
14:07
wicked people and opportunistic people are going to use this to
14:11
do some really vile, ungodly things, and they already are.
14:15
So we need to have the conversation where, you know, as
14:20
a church, my people are this is not a new topic for them.
14:23
If they hear this come up in the news or their kids are wrestling
14:28
with some, you know, medical decisions or some treatment
14:30
decisions, we need to understand these things 'cause they're not
14:35
going away and the the, the powers that be, the deep pocket
14:39
people that influence how our world operates, they are all
14:43
behind this human engineering stuff.
14:46
And it's pretty scary what they envision for humanity.
14:50
And if the church won't step up and say we're drawing a line in
14:53
the sand and not just no, but hell no, We're going to see our
14:58
people, you know, fall, fall victim to some things I don't
15:02
think God ever intended for us to be playing with.
15:06
But there'll be a tremendous temptation and pressure to do
15:08
so. And if we're not ready for that,
15:11
then, you know, we're not the shepherds and Watchmen that we
15:13
need to be. So there's a there's an
15:16
imperative to discuss these things.
15:20
You have to do your homework, and you have to revisit it
15:22
carefully. But it's it's thematically
15:25
something we have to be talking about for sure.
15:31
Very well said, man. And that is such a good
15:34
overview. I mean, from my position on it,
15:39
everything you just said is what a man of God would say in this
15:44
situation. Like, we have to prepare people.
15:47
We don't have to park and live in this weird fringe space 24/7.
15:51
That's not the goal. I mean, what I do over here is a
15:53
little bit more fringe than not just because there's such a lack
15:56
of churches doing it. But once we start to level out,
15:59
I really feel like this ministry can actually start to meet needs
16:03
in other places. But we see such a deficit of
16:06
this information because one of the cool things like everybody
16:09
knows Doctor Michael Heizer, now, the late Doctor Michael
16:12
Heizer, and it's like that foundation that he laid was
16:18
really reintroducing the idea of the first, you know, or or or
16:24
the ancient Jewish mindset. You know, like they were when
16:27
they were writing this stuff under the influence and the
16:30
power of the Holy Spirit. They were already aware of, you
16:34
know, chimeras and they're quoting books that aren't quote
16:37
UN quote by religious people acceptable to read.
16:42
You know, like the book of Enoch or Josh, right.
16:44
Like we, we see this kind of stuff how it does web and weave
16:47
together. And what you said, man, is
16:49
important because what it does is it gives people the freedom
16:52
to actually enter into what God is, in my opinion, hoping we're
16:57
aware of, so that the deception is lessons for the masses,
17:01
right? Right, yeah, it's.
17:03
I mean he says Jesus told his followers You need to be wise as
17:06
serpents, you know, which is that's provocative.
17:09
You know he's like you need to think like the serpent, you
17:12
know, like well who's who was the first serpent we think of in
17:15
a biblical context. You know, he says your your
17:18
enemy's wise. You need to be wise about him
17:21
and his ways. And it is such a, you know, one
17:26
of the frustrations I found that sort of forced me into deep
17:29
research was as I, as I looked at this, the answers even in
17:35
textual books were so weak that if it forced me to dig deeper
17:41
and I was amazed at, you know, really kind of coming to the
17:45
conclusion because I grew up Lutheran.
17:46
So I I I value the Reformation. I I value that departure from
17:52
what the the, the flaws of of Catholicism that that were
17:57
common in his day and but realizing so many of our
18:01
commentaries on some of these topics are are 500 years old.
18:05
They've not moved on conceptually.
18:07
And while we argue that context in history is important in
18:11
interpreting, there are a couple of taboo topics like this one
18:15
that we just don't like. We really just kind of don't dig
18:18
too deep into them. And it's like will.
18:21
We say we appreciate history and context and it's important.
18:24
But but wow, when you get into the context, the world view of
18:27
the early church, there's a there's things about the New
18:32
Testament that start to make a lot more sense.
18:34
And you know, without the context, the circular arguments
18:40
about things that you know, like who is Melchizedek and you know,
18:44
can angels actually have sex with with women and produce
18:47
children. Some of these circular things
18:49
were were actually well traveled ground and talked about and
18:51
understood in a historical context.
18:54
And, you know, someone might say, well that's not scripture,
18:56
but you know, context helps us interpret scripture.
19:00
But this is a taboo topic and one of the reasons why I think
19:03
Genesis 6 is sort of a taboo topic is 2 reasons it involves
19:06
the supernatural, which the modern church has a hard time
19:09
understanding or dealing with. And secondly, it involves sex.
19:12
I mean right out in the middle of the of the narrative, there's
19:16
this big sexual component to the conversation and so that's not
19:20
polite Sunday morning stuff. So there's already, you know
19:25
some sort, some hold backs that are already kind of baked into
19:28
this. But it's like this is, this is
19:30
the truth with some serious implications.
19:32
So we we have to wade into it, whether it makes us
19:35
uncomfortable or not. Yeah, very well said.
19:41
Man. Wow.
19:43
So let let's dive into the book here a little bit, in the sense
19:47
of like tell me what really stirred it up in you to wanna
19:52
write the book right and start this series?
19:57
OK. It's I must start with sort of a
20:00
funny story. I've got a guy in my church.
20:03
He's one of my he's one of my feeling, you know, preachers,
20:06
really solid preacher, good theology.
20:08
You know, he's really gifted young man.
20:11
And a few years ago we were talking about a sermon series I
20:13
was doing and I said, you know, maybe I could write a book about
20:16
this series. And he kind of he, he, you could
20:19
see in his face, there was no excitement for it.
20:21
And it's kind of like, yeah, there's a lot of books out there
20:23
on this topic and. I, I, I have an old preacher
20:27
friend that says if I can talk you out of something, it's not
20:29
God's will. And so at that point he taught
20:33
me out of of, you know, pastoral self help or what, you know,
20:37
what we think of as, I mean some of the worst.
20:39
And then they're not all bad in fairness, you know, a lot of
20:42
pastors don't, they're not writers.
20:44
They preach A sermon series, which is a really good sermon
20:46
series. And they hand their notes to a
20:48
Ghost Rider. And the Ghost Rider makes
20:51
chapters out of each sermon and ties a book together.
20:55
And it's that person's material. And I get it.
20:57
That's how some books are written and some of them are
20:58
really good, but a lot of them are just, you know, they're
21:04
just, you know, it's just another product.
21:06
It it's, you know, and and there's some good ones in there,
21:09
some not good ones. And so, you know, kind of having
21:12
him take the wind out of my cells about writing something
21:15
that is the standard pastor book that you're supposed to do, you
21:19
know, when you're, you know, in my kind of setting, I, I don't
21:24
know when it hit me. But as I was diving into this
21:26
stuff, I just thought, wow, this would make a great adventure
21:30
story. And maybe there's some people
21:35
out there that need, they need to live, they need the fiction,
21:38
you know, to to get the spiritual truth.
21:41
And you know, some of the great examples, you know, would be
21:44
obviously CS Lewis and Jr. Tolkien.
21:47
You know, they, they were spiritual men.
21:50
They were Kingdom men and they were trying to introduce a world
21:53
view and eternal truth through story.
21:57
And so I was kind of jotting with some, you know, sort of
22:01
just jotting some ideas around to make a story.
22:03
And went the first story I'd I really wanted to write.
22:07
I have not written I I wanted to write Adam, explaining what
22:11
happened when the world fell. And I'll write that book
22:14
eventually. But I started jotting some short
22:16
stories down just about what was, what was Adam's world like,
22:22
you know, before he maybe gets to the point where he fully
22:26
explains, all right kids, this is how your mom and I, you know,
22:29
broke the universe. The there they were real people.
22:34
The Bible, you know, in a very audacious fashion, just
22:38
introduces them as real people with real wives, with real life
22:42
spans, a very specific about when they when they're born,
22:46
when they die in relationship to when Adams created.
22:49
And they have this very detailed timeline of events and it
22:54
presents them to you as people. I know some people, you know,
22:58
may say, well, they're, they're metaphors or maybe they're, you
23:02
know, there's some symbolism going on.
23:05
And you know, that's whatever we're, you know, we can
23:08
interpret and make those arguments.
23:09
But, but on a basic level, the Bible just says this is who
23:14
these people were, This is who their children were.
23:16
This is the time period they lived in.
23:18
Here's just a handful of details about what's going on in their
23:21
world. And then when you begin to dig
23:25
into the broader context, things like the Book of Enoch as you
23:30
mentioned, or Jubilees or Jasher or Seder Alam.
23:34
There's just there's quite a few books that were that were normal
23:37
reading or discussion points for believers at that point.
23:42
And that was a that's just a strange world.
23:45
And so I thought, you know what? I'll get to the Adam book later.
23:48
But this is sort of shaping up into, you know, like a classic
23:52
adventure story that, you know, follows a a template people
23:56
would be familiar with and and try to get into these people's
24:01
minds that they lived in a horrible world.
24:05
And it's a world Jesus says is going to be echoed again before
24:08
he comes back. And so there's certainly some
24:11
things for us to learn out of it.
24:14
So I don't think I would have finished a regular pastoral, you
24:17
know, kind of info book. This has been good for me on a
24:22
personal level, just on my soul, just to just to do something,
24:26
you know, different and and creative.
24:28
So my hope is we wanted to and I got this little team of people
24:35
that helps me and you know, God bless them because that I
24:38
wouldn't have finished this without, you know, some help.
24:42
We've got some stories to tell and we've got, we've got some
24:45
truth that we need to to present in a way that can make people
24:50
think. And these people, the Bible
24:54
presents them as people that they face these challenges and
24:57
somehow their faith still endured and we're going to be
25:00
facing similar challenges. You know, they lived in a world
25:03
where there were bioengineered enemies and and temptations from
25:10
powerful interdimensional beings who offered them, you know,
25:13
power and technology and things that would advance their life,
25:16
but it came at a cost. And so, you know, every
25:19
generation is dealing with with these moral challenges, these
25:23
good and evil questions, these these temptations.
25:26
But man, the world, my kids, you know, growing up in, I think you
25:31
said you got a six year old. You know, they're going to have
25:34
some wild decisions in front of them in regards to what does it
25:39
mean to be human. And at what point do we begin
25:43
playing with, you know, our DNA, We begin playing with our
25:46
humanity. At what point is it not just,
25:49
you know, maybe corrective or helpful, what point is it trying
25:53
to find eternity outside of God, you know, becoming literally
25:57
becoming something not human. And we're right there.
26:00
And the, the, the, the movies have been priming us for some of
26:04
these things. And we've just got an imperative
26:09
for the next generation to say you need to get your head around
26:11
this because this is going to be some things that you're going to
26:14
have to sort out. And I think a great adventure
26:18
story is is one way to do it. And there's some great books out
26:22
there and I know you've talked to some great authors that you
26:24
know have explored it from the theological side, but for me
26:29
this was the best way to approach this kind of stuff.
26:33
This is strange topics and it makes for great reading.
26:36
But you know, like when you realize the historical context
26:39
for this is nothing in the book is a stretch as well as, as well
26:44
as it seems. That was a very strange world
26:47
that they were living in. And we're we're living in a very
26:50
strange world now. Very well said.
27:00
Yeah. It's a it really feel like this
27:06
should be the standard. You know, it makes me wonder
27:10
what do we do to reintroduce this into the larger picture?
27:15
Like like how do we just get to the point where all of these
27:18
churches. Right, we have these pockets all
27:20
around the country, all around the world.
27:21
How do we get people just back to that basic of like, you know
27:24
what? This is exciting.
27:26
This is truth. And and yes, introducing, you
27:29
know, a fiction book and and painting pictures of this, you
27:34
know, battle to fight and you know chimeras and you know, all
27:38
these cool like creatures and stuff like that.
27:40
But here's the thing, the oral tradition storytelling is
27:47
powerful. It is so powerful.
27:50
So what you're doing, right? Yeah.
27:53
One of the reasons. Just the storytelling aspect,
27:55
but that is so powerful, man, and and and so I want to just
28:01
ask you a quick question and then just kind of keep riding
28:03
that wavelength of of thought, whatever you had.
28:06
But have you had like men in your church like come up and
28:09
pull you aside and say like pastor like this.
28:13
This literally changed my life. Like, like I I'm all in.
28:17
Have you had like, can you share one or two of those kind of
28:19
experiences if you've had that happen with your own
28:21
congregation or even people from outside of your congregation?
28:25
I I have had people say I had no idea there was this much
28:30
information about this time period and I have had.
28:36
I I get more verbal responses like if I'm at a conference or
28:38
something you know. So I I intro the book at a
28:44
conference couple summers ago got a great response.
28:49
You know most of the books I had with me got sold.
28:52
The next year I did a similar, you know and it was kind of like
28:56
a Ted talk setting. You know, you had 15 or 20
28:58
minutes and what I did different the second year, you know, it's
29:03
one of these things like, well, that's incredibly simple.
29:05
I just played a tube, you know, maybe 92nd clip from someone
29:10
talking about human engineering, transhumanism.
29:14
And let let the audience see in their own words what what the
29:21
power brokers are saying about this topic and the disdain they
29:25
have for humanity and how they're all in on this,
29:30
upgrading humanity, you know, into being something different.
29:33
And so I had pastors that, you know, bought the book and that
29:37
said that scared the hell out of me.
29:40
I I didn't know. And so I've had some, yeah, I've
29:44
had some people with some with some profound reactions to it.
29:49
Surprisingly, I have had a lot of ladies like the book, even
29:53
though it's very masculine, but the the, the the two principal
29:59
wives, the story revolves around the third son of Adam and Eve
30:03
whose name's Seth and who is named by Eve.
30:07
And that's kind of unusual if you understand Hebrew culture,
30:10
that's even that's a little bit unusual.
30:13
She says this is, this is appointed and it's in reference
30:17
to she lost two sons. Cain kills Abel and then Cain's
30:22
exiled and he takes a wife from from his, you know, from his
30:26
sister's. So there's there's three deaths
30:30
essentially for Eve and Adam, you know, in a in in one
30:34
incident's time you've got this very costly, you know, human
30:39
event. And so she says this, this Seth
30:43
is appointed, he's been given me to replace, you know, those that
30:47
were taken from me. And this is how the Lord's being
30:49
kind to me. And so Eve is Adam and Eve are
30:53
630 years old when this story is taking place And so they've
30:59
raised generations of kids. Seth is married to Ahava and and
31:04
even Ahava kind of form the the, the, the feminine, you know,
31:10
experience or voice. And they anchor the story cuz I
31:14
cuz they're they're very strong women in their own right and
31:19
they're they're married to these very commanding capable men.
31:24
And so, you know, I wanted to be able to celebrate, you know, we
31:28
can have masculinity and very strong femininity at the same
31:31
time. And it's not impossible.
31:33
The world says, you know, in order to advance feminism we
31:36
have to destroy men. And biblically, you know, we
31:40
need to, you know, baptize our our brains that no, we can we
31:44
can both be strong and actually make each other stronger.
31:48
So I've surprisingly had, you know, I've got men that have
31:52
liked it, but I've also had a lot of ladies that have liked it
31:54
because you know Eve and 1/2 are are are very powerful characters
31:59
in their own right and and anchor the family and then and
32:02
their little nation with such effectiveness.
32:08
You know, I've been, I've been pleased because I did write this
32:10
largely for men. You know, this is the adventure
32:12
story I wanted or or would have wanted to read, you know, when I
32:15
was younger. But I've been pleased on both
32:18
ends. I've had positive response about
32:21
the truths and about the issues, but I've had some positive
32:24
response to just in how we're looking at family.
32:28
You know this this family survived in an insane
32:32
environment and kept the faith somehow.
32:35
So there's some, there's some fun things to explore from that
32:39
standpoint. Then I think, you know, the
32:43
older you do this ride on this planet, this imperfect place, we
32:48
have regrets. You know, we have things that we
32:51
wish it'd gone different. We have mistakes that we've made
32:55
and Adam and Eve have, you know, the only people that experience
33:00
perfection and imperfection. And so to me, they're very
33:03
fascinating. And you know if if you've
33:07
wrestled with regrets, there's some things to learn from Adam
33:10
and Eve because they've they've had regrets in spades.
33:13
You know that they've they've they fell from a great place and
33:17
somehow kept going. And I was fascinated by the fact
33:21
that as I dealt into the histories of the Jewish
33:24
histories and and things, you know in in in the Protestant
33:28
world, Adam and Eve are are a joke.
33:31
They're they're they're you know, they're they're the butt
33:36
of the joke in the Jewish histories.
33:39
Adam is revered that Eve is revered.
33:41
They were kind of larger than life figures.
33:47
I know that. I think it's, I can't remember
33:49
which, which of the books in particular.
33:50
I know you've read, you know, some of them, but the history
33:54
records, when Adam died, the world mourned him.
33:56
The kings of the world, you know, took notice of the fact
33:59
that, you know, Adam's gone. He was, he was revered and wise
34:02
and powerful. And so there's just some things
34:05
that in our context of the New Testament that we so love,
34:10
there's some deeper things that if we just look a little bit,
34:14
we'll find some really fascinating things and
34:17
encouraging things. So, so yeah, it's been, it's
34:21
been fun to get to see the book go out and to see people, you
34:24
know, click on certain aspects of it.
34:26
And it's been very rewarding. There are so many powerful
34:32
highlights there. I really love how you, you know,
34:36
lifted up the fact that you know, the feminine heart is so
34:42
important and and lifting that up, like there's powerful men
34:46
right in the Bible and there's powerful men in the making and
34:49
that have been established already today.
34:52
But you don't have to deplete masculinity in order to increase
34:57
the feminine role. I thought that was super
34:59
significant just because of the attack on masculinity today and
35:03
really the Nuggets you're pulling out of the Bible and
35:05
just the way that you're flowing and painting, you know, this
35:10
this picture for for me and the audience here, it really makes
35:13
me feel like I want to get recaptured back up into this
35:17
great story again, even though I do this continually.
35:20
So it's it's very, very inviting and very, you know, compelling
35:25
to just be like, yeah, this is this is all that and everything
35:28
else that's good in one package. So, you know, Paul, I want you
35:34
to talk a little bit about, you know, with the days we're living
35:38
in and what you see going on in the world today.
35:42
You know, give give me kind of an overview of how how do you
35:46
compartmentalize the information in the sense of like, yeah,
35:49
we're in the days of Noah right now Again, you guys, I mean, and
35:52
we know transhumanism, right. But just give us like zoom out a
35:55
little bit to the macrocosm and give me a couple things that
35:57
you're like watching and like, hey, look out for this.
36:00
This lines up with some prophetic things and, you know,
36:05
strange stuff going on. I I think you, you know, every
36:10
generation's, you know, experiencing some sort of
36:12
pendulum swing and and nothing stays the same.
36:18
You know, the the cultural pressures right now, you know,
36:24
in my mind, you know, there, there was a point where I
36:29
realized that evil is in the Gears of the world in a deeper,
36:34
more profound way than than I thought and kind of becoming a
36:40
new Christian in the 90s. You know, spiritual warfare was
36:42
a big topic. And so yeah, I thought I sort of
36:45
had a head, my head, around how the enemy works and, you know,
36:49
the the the biblical truths. And as I read Genesis you know 6
36:54
and started diving into it a little bit deeper, it really was
36:58
sort of a straw that broke the camel's back that that really it
37:02
deeply changed my world view. Because in that world if if you
37:09
you read the just a six story and it's easy to just look at
37:13
the sex aspect of it and how weird that is and argue is that
37:17
what they really mean or not. And and the reality is it's lust
37:22
is really not the biggest part of that story.
37:25
The the desire for power, the desire to play God, the desire
37:30
to take down the next guy. Because you've got a little bit
37:36
of, you got a little bit of of appeal to human ambition and
37:42
you've got the basic, the basic deal with the devil kind of
37:46
dynamic going on when you, when you dig in the story and you
37:50
find out the fallen angels, you know the early church says
37:52
they've got specific names. They're called the Watchers and
37:56
they were kind of a specific group of angels that seemingly
38:01
were assigned to watch over humanity in maybe even help
38:06
serve them and and help them. Adam's relationship with God has
38:10
has changed. His access to God has changed.
38:13
And so this group of of angels seemingly is is a sign to the
38:17
earth in some helping role and well they go rogue and they
38:23
decide we we want to take wives. But beyond that and spawning
38:28
these, you know, monsters that were ever supposed to exist,
38:31
these Nepheline, the the giants, that was just the starting point
38:36
for them. They wanted to go further.
38:38
They wanted to dive even deeper. And their rebellion to God, you
38:43
know, begins to work itself out in what we can be creators too.
38:48
We can, we can kind of fashion the world in the way that we
38:52
would like for it to be. So the historical records say
38:56
they begin to experiment and they begin to take humanity.
39:00
They begin to take animals. They begin to take their own
39:04
supercharged DNA and start mixing everything together.
39:07
And so that verse in Genesis 6 where it says all flesh was
39:11
corrupted after itself. And this is one of the reasons
39:13
for the the prelude to the flood, the they're playing God
39:18
and they're defined God. And so beyond that part of it,
39:24
they begin making deals with humanity.
39:25
And so we've got this world before the flood, and there's
39:30
basically an arms race going on. And the watchers are exchanging
39:36
their advanced knowledge to humanity in exchange for blood,
39:40
in exchange for children, in exchange for for virgins and in
39:45
a horrible, you know, exchange right out of a horror movie or
39:49
there's a really bad movie a few years ago where Mars needs
39:52
women. So aliens were going to the
39:54
Earth to take women. There's these these strange, you
39:57
know, things that are relegated to to to some strange stories.
40:00
But at the heart of it all, there's this, you know, there is
40:03
this human ambition that's giving place to the demonic in
40:07
our world. And I just began to realize I
40:11
don't think this has changed. It's it's it's operating a
40:16
little differently. It's it's not working itself out
40:18
exactly like that. But the realization that.
40:22
That evil wants to systematize itself.
40:25
It wants to work itself into all the Gears of governance in the
40:30
world. And they're doing a pretty good
40:33
job of it. And so for for me, there was a
40:36
there was a worldview change. I thought I kind of understood
40:39
how evil worked, but I began to realize, no, I think it's in the
40:43
Gears of how the world works even deeper than I thought.
40:47
And as we moved into the the COVID realm, you know, you began
40:54
to see a lot of this stuff play out right in front of your eyes.
40:57
So some of the things I thought, yeah, there's implications of
41:00
the story. I need to write the story.
41:03
But the concerns came down the Pike so much faster than I
41:07
expected. They're right.
41:10
They're right in our world right now.
41:11
And So what does it mean to be human?
41:16
Is is even more urgent than than I expected it to be.
41:21
I I thought some of this thing might be on a slightly slower
41:23
pace but the pace has picked up and so you know the the pre
41:28
flood world face this temptation.
41:30
You know if if if I deal with darkness, they'll give me
41:36
something that I can use to beat the next guy and that human
41:40
ambitions not changed. And I I think those deals are
41:44
still being made not in the exact same fashion, but that's
41:48
the base part of the problem. So it's it's there's the evil
41:53
aspect of it, but then there's also there's the humanity aspect
41:56
of it. And you know, we haven't
41:59
evolved, we haven't gotten better.
42:00
We're still sinful. We're still imperfect.
42:04
And there's going to be a segment of our world that is is
42:08
going to be willing to play ball with these evil forces, these
42:11
evil you know, intelligences and evil setting itself up.
42:17
You know to return to the world stage in a more direct fashion
42:21
is, you know we're we're seeing some elements of it playing out
42:24
right in front of us. So I don't, you know, as a as a
42:28
pastor it's, you know without some context to some of these
42:32
things it's a lot to take in on the first blush.
42:35
But I just tell people, look you have to look some of this up for
42:37
yourself. I mean 10 years ago before I
42:40
even got into the watcher stuff. If you just go to the UN
42:44
website, you realize the people that want to run the world are
42:47
scary people, that they don't look at the world the way that
42:51
we do. They don't look at your family
42:53
the way that that we do. They, you know, if it was left
42:57
up to them, they would run the world in a cruel and grotesque
43:01
fashion and they haven't slowed down.
43:04
It's only getting, you know, they're only doubling down on
43:06
their efforts and they're going to deeply affect our kids if we
43:12
don't wrap our heads around the concepts and understand there's
43:15
lines in the sands that we can't go past.
43:18
And so yeah, even researching this was a bit of a wake up.
43:23
And as I'm sure you found looking at at some of the topics
43:27
in your your history as I I I listened to one of the shows to
43:31
just get a feel for where you're coming from.
43:34
Once you start questioning a narrative in one place, then you
43:39
find that you kind of have to start questioning it at lots of
43:41
other places too. So this topic just opens itself
43:46
up to all sorts of other topics. Yeah, and you know, a lot of the
43:52
driving force for this, this podcast ministry year was
43:57
capturing the faith journey, but also having a safe place to dive
44:01
into the weird. You know, like kind of having to
44:09
kind of having to create that safe place.
44:12
Because I couldn't really find upon anything else that was
44:15
already established. And it's it's growing and
44:18
increasing and one of the hard things that I deal with and that
44:23
I know people bring to me is like, man, it's like a full time
44:27
job trying to know what's true and what's not true.
44:30
It is overwhelming, yeah, it's a bit.
44:32
Overwhelming, yeah, I mean 1,000,000 messages, a million
44:35
signals causing confusion and chaos, right?
44:37
Right, right. Yeah.
44:39
Yeah, that's why. Well, the word of God, that's
44:42
why we we can stand on the word. But the Berean mentality, so
44:47
talk a little bit more, you know, on whatever wavelength you
44:50
were going on. But the Berean mentality is what
44:53
comes to mind. That's what I see you doing as
44:55
I'm sitting here listening to you.
44:56
It's like, well, I'm just diving into this unashamed and
45:00
preparing my mind right and and exploring the word of God with
45:04
the readiness of mind. Right.
45:07
I think, you know you know some of it comes with when you're
45:11
sort of navigating what your theology is.
45:13
And I I know that sounds like an Oprah kind of subjective and I I
45:16
don't mean it that way. But the the reality is you know
45:20
good people who love the Bible we we end up in some differences
45:25
of opinion over certain aspects of church life or or theology.
45:30
But this, you know, this topic is kind of one of the overriding
45:34
ones. You know, like good and evil.
45:37
You know, it's just as basic as it gets.
45:40
And how do we, you know, how do we position ourselves to address
45:47
some of the implications of this story?
45:49
You know if we're living in a time where they weren't talking
45:52
about engineering humans or world leaders don't gather every
45:55
year, you know, at expensive summits and talk about, you
45:59
know, the, well, the best thing to do is for, you know, to
46:01
humanity needs to allow us to bio engineer them for the next
46:05
base of human you know, existence.
46:07
You know what? Who gets to be in charge of
46:09
that? Who gets to make those
46:10
decisions? You know, I don't.
46:11
I'm not so sure I I want you guys to be the ones
46:15
experimenting on me about what you think is best.
46:19
At some point this stuff gets right down into real life.
46:22
Something gets right down into does the government have access
46:26
to your children outside of your will or or or authority, You
46:32
know, is that the kind of world that we want to live in?
46:36
If a child says, I have a persuasion that's different, you
46:40
know, from a norm, do they have the right to bypass their
46:44
parents. And and you know, state of
46:46
California says they do. And so when you move these
46:51
things forward, there's a there's a point where people of
46:54
faith will have no say. So if we don't, if we don't
46:57
resist now, we don't get educated, we don't understand,
47:01
we don't see where this thing is going.
47:08
Then we're failing as parents. We're failing as pastors and
47:12
shepherds. You know when David is is
47:15
becoming king and it talks about, and I I love the lists in
47:20
the Bible, 'cause there's these these little clues, you know,
47:23
that are kind of profound. It.
47:24
It says that he had 200 of the men of Issachar that joined the
47:28
army. I think it's 200.
47:29
And it says they were men who understood the times and.
47:33
There's other tribes bringing. Lots more combat men to the
47:36
table, but these guys make the list even though they're not the
47:38
most numerous. They make the list because it
47:41
says they understood what was going on and David valued that.
47:44
David's like glad to have these guys here because they
47:47
understand what's going on. And as we mentioned, Jesus said
47:51
you need to be as wise as serpent, innocent as doves and
47:54
even says the the the sons of men have more understanding
47:56
sometimes of of of things than than the sons of light.
48:00
So we need to, we need to know where, even though this, this
48:05
starts on a weird note, These issues are going to get right
48:08
into our families, going to get right into our world.
48:12
And the Bible speaks to these issues.
48:14
That's what's amazing. You know what?
48:18
What do we? Do in a world where we got.
48:19
Ethical decisions about, you know, how much of playing with
48:22
our, our our DNA strand is good and and what's not.
48:26
One of the Bible says I've I've already addressed this.
48:29
You know, there's there's there's a point that's too far.
48:32
There's a point where this is not human anymore.
48:35
And when things get corrupted to a certain point, God says time
48:40
to flush the toilet. You know, like he looked at the
48:42
world and realized, yes, there was violence.
48:45
Yes, there was disinterest, you know, yes, people were not
48:49
seeking after God, but all flesh had been corrupted after itself.
48:53
Well, that's a weird statement, but it preps us for the future.
48:57
It preps us for the days when Jesus is coming back.
49:00
We'll see these issues again. We will see people playing God,
49:05
mixing things together that should never been mixed together
49:08
and knowing God's not happy with this.
49:11
You know, it's it's sort of scary to think of what's going
49:16
on in places that don't have some of the moral boundaries or
49:20
guidelines that we would like to think that we still have in in
49:24
our Western world. But I just, I just read
49:27
something yesterday about and this has popped up more than
49:29
once about the the Chinese Communist you know, party
49:34
engineering soldiers to have more upper body strength by you
49:38
know introducing DNA from animals.
49:41
This stuff's going on. You know, we're we're right
49:43
here. And you know, that's not a
49:48
world. I want my kids to be in.
49:49
But that's the world that they're growing up in.
49:51
So we need to be able to have these conversations and
49:56
fortunately the word God already clues us into some of these
49:59
things. So that's that's that's part of
50:03
this that that you know as you said it's almost a full time job
50:09
keeping up with what's going on in the world because our media
50:13
is. Not telling us the truth about.
50:14
Things. In fact, it's almost to the
50:17
point where if the media says something on an important topic,
50:21
it's probably exactly opposite of what they're saying.
50:24
And you know, we can laugh about it, but you know, it's like it's
50:28
so true. It's so true.
50:30
And that's upside down. World it is.
50:33
It's like a strange place. So you know as as people that
50:38
are interested in top this topic, we've wrapped our head
50:40
around it. And I think as we get more
50:44
instances of this becoming plain to the world or this being, you
50:49
know, advanced in other countries, and if it's not here
50:53
yet, but we get the luxury of, OK, what do we, you know, how
50:58
do? Are we going to allow?
50:59
This Are we going to let this happen here or, you know, are
51:02
there some lines in the sand that we just can't cross and and
51:06
we have to resist. And as as Christians, we need to
51:09
be the ones that are part of saying this is not good, You
51:14
know, this is unacceptable and to be.
51:19
At the place where? You can say hey this is all been
51:23
this has all happened before. We've already been warned.
51:28
God's prepared us for this because he's given us some clues
51:31
in the word and but they're not easy clues.
51:35
They have to be haunted and searched out and and and and and
51:40
dug for in mind and you know they're they're kind of
51:42
treasures but the reality is God's helped us.
51:45
He's he's prepped us for some of these things.
51:48
He was never happy with mixing species at a certain point in
51:53
time. Well, God doesn't change.
51:54
Guess what? He's not going to be happy with
51:56
it when it happens again. So fortunately the the word.
52:00
Of God speaks to some. Of these things and and we can
52:04
have, I think there's some even some comfort just in that and
52:07
knowing hey, God says these things are going to be happening
52:09
in the end times and that's that's OK.
52:15
If he said it's going to be happening he's prepared us for
52:18
it like we've we we we can be a a step ahead of this kind of
52:23
stuff. Even though the world's got the
52:25
money and the resources and the the technology ultimately the
52:29
meek are still going to inherit the earth.
52:31
You know we're we're not going to be the ones who are who are
52:35
are left alone. God says he's going to help us
52:38
with all these things, so that's that's part of part of writing
52:42
the. Story in the way that.
52:43
I did was there's a group of people that face these issues
52:48
and they found. A way to endure?
52:52
And we got a bunch of strange issues coming down the Pike, and
52:55
we'll find a way to endure because because God's good.
52:58
And you know, no matter what this world throws at us, the
53:01
world that we're looking forward to is an even better world.
53:04
And it's worth, it's worth fighting for and sacrificing
53:07
for. And it's it's our kids are worth
53:11
this. Our kids are worth dealing with
53:14
the uncomfortable topics, dealing with the topics people
53:17
don't want to talk about necessarily until they're forced
53:19
to. But the way human events seem to
53:22
be going, the people that don't want to talk about this stuff
53:26
are going to have to talk about it at some point anyway.
53:33
Yeah. Wow, this is.
53:35
This is a powerful. Episode.
53:37
Because I mean, honestly, if I would have interviewed you five
53:41
years ago, Paul, it would have been everything I needed to hear
53:44
that took me like a couple years to puzzle piece a lot of this
53:47
together. I I don't know who The Who the
53:51
helpers. Were in your journey.
53:52
I mean Michael dude you know was was he what a loss that that
53:57
he's not with us anymore. But but I mean just because like
54:01
I see. The pastor's heart, right?
54:03
And I see, like, how you're gently giving this information
54:06
but stirring up the importance of it at the same time.
54:09
It's so balanced, right? I'm actually just really in love
54:13
with this episode right now. Because it's speaking to that
54:16
part of me. Like, you know, I I'm down the
54:18
rabbit hole. I'm super fringe.
54:19
Like I have some really weird theories.
54:22
I talk with fringe people, Paul, they're fringe and and they're
54:25
like, OK, hold on, Ron, that was too much.
54:27
Well, I I was just thinking I was like, I'm not.
54:29
I'm not. I wouldn't preach that from a
54:30
pulpit. That's just this could connect,
54:32
right. So, but, but I'm looking through
54:34
the lens of like when I first started walking into this stuff
54:37
with all of these questions, all of this frustration, just
54:40
looking like because I would read this stuff in the Bible and
54:45
I'd have the nudging. But I would go to other men of
54:47
God and get so frustrated and let down that they'd be like, Oh
54:51
no, well that's it was always like they would blame shift the
54:55
idea to being a negative thought process.
54:58
So I'd bring them something and they would just kind of like
55:00
scoot it out of the way and like Oh no, don't worry about that.
55:03
And and it actually propelled me to go further, right.
55:06
And to not let off the gas, but to hear what you're presenting.
55:09
I just think, like those people out there, 'cause we have new
55:12
listeners here on the show, we have people that are coming in
55:14
at all different levels of their walk and understanding some
55:17
stuff terrifies people. I've gotten messages with people
55:19
saying I couldn't sleep for two days, like, what the heck, You
55:22
know, you messed me up. And other people were like, OK,
55:24
well, I did learn one thing and I think you should look into
55:26
this next, You know, like I see people at all different ranges.
55:29
Yeah, I I think that's, you know they're we're.
55:31
We're called sheep for a reason and it's it's not a compliment.
55:35
You know I, my family raised sheep and goats in West TX.
55:39
You know my my group my uncles when Jesus calls a sheep it's
55:43
really it's really not a compliment you know it's we we
55:48
we overload. You know she famous for
55:51
overloading with stimuli and just freeze and that's that's
55:56
not a far cry from from you know humanity and you know when you
56:04
have a. Reason to to.
56:05
Actually get your head around some of this stuff.
56:07
You know it's it's there's some things that we'll we don't learn
56:10
until it becomes personal when we we rise to the exactly spot
56:15
on. Spot on.
56:16
And. And societally.
56:18
We're moving towards this. So like it or not, you know,
56:22
people that, you know, cover their ears and is too much.
56:25
And I get it you know kind of I kind of get that it's too much
56:29
that that you you will be forced to deal with some of these
56:32
issues whether you like them or not that they'll be part of your
56:35
life experience. And hopefully the the you know
56:40
the veil of secrecy gets torn back on some of the stuff
56:42
because we'll we'll get to see how how horrible this is when it
56:47
it doesn't work the way it's supposed to.
56:49
And I'm I'm would think you've discussed CRISPR technology and
56:54
other things you know throughout your podcast or at some point
56:59
you know we're we're at the point now where you can rewrite
57:02
your DNA and it's we, we don't know this is a Pandora's box.
57:07
I mean there might be a few good things out of it, but man, there
57:11
is, there's probably already quite a body count.
57:14
I know there's there's you know, there've been some instances of
57:17
people playing with their DNA and and it does not go well.
57:20
And so this is where this will get broader into the human, you
57:24
know, discussion sooner rather than later and somebody, you
57:30
know and I think the the role of, you know, the.
57:33
Role that you're taking. And the role I'm taking and
57:35
other guys who have ventured into this stuff and may not
57:39
necessarily be considered a great career move but but you
57:43
know we're we're we're motivated by the the bottom line truth of
57:47
it. You know, this is, this is
57:49
biblical truth and this is part of the good versus evil dynamic
57:53
that has to be understood. And so when someone has to get
57:58
their head around this for the first time, they need somebody
58:00
in their life that they can go to or listen to or or punch in a
58:03
podcast or read a book and say, hey, God's not taken by surprise
58:08
with any of this. This has already happened before
58:11
and there is a way to navigate out of it.
58:14
And that to me is encouraging. And I think there's also a,
58:21
there's also a a hell no kind of attitude that we need to get
58:25
into the church about. You know, we've walked, we've
58:27
worshipped at what I call the altar of tolerance, you know,
58:31
for for a decade or more. And we're not well served by
58:36
that. And you know people getting when
58:43
you need to know the. Truth and you get.
58:45
Desperate to know the truth? Then you want the truth.
58:49
And so I think world events are going to be forcing people to
58:53
wrap their heads around this because it it's not going away.
58:56
But fortunately, there's people that we've already gone through
59:01
the pain of wrapping our heads around this topic because it is.
59:04
It is weird and and painful and overwhelming at times.
59:10
And, you know, not broadly discussed so, but fortunately,
59:18
you. Know we we need to be.
59:20
We need to be up to speed because more and more people are
59:24
getting their heads around this and understanding that this
59:29
technology and even how it's employed by our governments and
59:33
and lots of different implications to IT, people will
59:36
be waking up hopefully, hopefully.
59:39
Sooner rather than later. But they'll be forced to, you
59:44
know, be it something the government wants to impose or
59:46
their own health issues or their own temptations from what this
59:50
technology can do, they're going to have to start exploring it,
59:53
whether they like it or not. And there's something
59:59
comforting. In being a sheep personally,
1:00:03
because in my weakness his powers made best known and.
1:00:08
As being a sheep. We hear our.
1:00:12
Shepherd's voice. Right.
1:00:13
We don't follow another, so this is encouraging.
1:00:17
I mean vulnerability is a is a weapon that that can be used and
1:00:23
this process just. All these years of of putting.
1:00:30
You know, the time and energy and researching and praying and
1:00:33
just beating the floor and crying out and trying to make
1:00:35
sense of stuff. I wouldn't trade it for the
1:00:37
world. I wouldn't trade it.
1:00:40
So Paul, we're going to start to wind down a little bit, but I
1:00:42
want to ask a last question and then I want you to plug in where
1:00:45
people can find you what would be.
1:00:50
Your what would? Be your.
1:00:54
Message to the Millennial. Generation today that, let's
1:00:58
just say, if this is the last time you got on air to speak
1:01:01
with the millennial generation, what do you think is the most
1:01:03
imperative thing that they need to know right now?
1:01:07
Wow, that's interesting. Yeah, I would say, you know,
1:01:11
there's nothing new under the sun.
1:01:12
The Bible teaches us that, you know, that we might think what
1:01:16
we're experiencing is new or, you know, uniquely horrible or
1:01:21
uniquely good. You know, for that matter.
1:01:24
There's nothing new under the sun.
1:01:25
This is, you know, there. There are challenges that are
1:01:30
that are coming, that are here, that previous generations did
1:01:35
not really have to think about. As Christians, we need to be
1:01:43
grounded in a biblical world view and enable to take on these
1:01:48
topics and have conversations about them.
1:01:51
Because you know it. It was not something that a
1:01:55
pastor needed in his arsenal 40 years ago discussing the ethics
1:01:58
of, you know, bioengineering. You know, like this.
1:02:02
That was not not needed. Well, from here on out it is
1:02:06
needed there. There's no choice.
1:02:07
This is coming. And who gets to be in charge of
1:02:11
those decisions? Who gets to be who?
1:02:13
Who gets to say how you will be changed or how you will be
1:02:17
reprogrammed or how you will you know what?
1:02:19
What's the acceptable use of these, you know technologies?
1:02:23
You know, you know. The Bible says we're made in
1:02:24
God's image where we have the ability to choose.
1:02:28
We have the ability to navigate our life for ourselves, both
1:02:32
good and bad, but there will be. People that want to impose.
1:02:37
These things on you, either by force or by persuasion.
1:02:40
And you need to understand, you know, there was a point where
1:02:42
God said you, you don't play God.
1:02:46
There's a point where there's a point of no return.
1:02:48
The judgement is coming and this type of behavior is not
1:02:51
tolerated. And so it's happened before.
1:02:55
It's going to happen again. We're at a point where we need
1:03:00
to think about things previous. Generations.
1:03:03
We're not forced to think about, but we need to have those things
1:03:06
in our tool chest. We need to have thought them
1:03:08
through, prayed them through. And that's imperative because we
1:03:12
have our kids to think about. We have the future to think
1:03:14
about. We're all longing for Jesus's
1:03:17
return, but we're notoriously bad at predicting when it's
1:03:20
going to happen. And so we need to take a long
1:03:23
perspective and prepare ourselves for issues that
1:03:27
weren't important before but are going to be important moving
1:03:30
forward. And these things have happened
1:03:33
before. They're happening now.
1:03:35
We can wish the world wasn't evil and systematized and
1:03:39
corrupt in the way that it is, but maybe it's on us now to
1:03:43
decide, you know what? What world we're going to fight
1:03:46
for. Was it a world that reflects
1:03:48
some Kingdom values and biblical, you know, values and
1:03:51
truths? Or we gonna let the world
1:03:54
dictate how things are gonna go. I know.
1:03:58
I want to go down swinging. I hope you do too.
1:04:01
You know, like we're not going to just see the ground to these
1:04:04
people who want types of technologies to do horrible
1:04:09
things. And, you know, maybe some of
1:04:11
them are well intended and just deceived.
1:04:12
But I think there's also some of them that they know this is a
1:04:17
incredible means of control that they could that they could
1:04:20
enforce use and enforce and you know it's for freedom.
1:04:24
We've been set free. This is not God wants people to
1:04:27
be so free they cannot choose them.
1:04:28
Which is a you know, crazy concept.
1:04:31
But our world always, you know the world players, the world
1:04:34
powers always seem to be pushing for more and more control and
1:04:38
that that just that echoes, that reflects who their father is who
1:04:42
you know what world view they're actually operating from.
1:04:46
And as Christians we need to be different and and ready to to
1:04:49
defend. You know those lines in the
1:04:51
sands that are like now you know some things are worth dying for.
1:04:54
Some things are worth being inconvenienced and sacrificing
1:04:57
for and and freedom And who gets to define family and who gets
1:05:03
to, you know make those decisions are are critical.
1:05:06
So you know be strong. Every generation's faced you
1:05:11
know some horrible things. You know, it's our turn to be
1:05:14
strong and to stand firm. So that's what I would say it's.
1:05:20
It's a profound, like, what's the last thing to say to this
1:05:22
group of people? Powerful, you know?
1:05:26
Yeah, I mean go down swing and you know, some, I I don't have a
1:05:30
strict eschatological view. I've got friends on both sides
1:05:34
of, you know, or historyists or futurists or, you know, all that
1:05:37
kind of stuff. You know, to me, this day's
1:05:40
another thing is the most interesting end times thing.
1:05:44
Because it's it's pretty. Clear.
1:05:45
And it kind of doesn't matter, you know, what camp you're in,
1:05:50
whether you're, you know, pre Trib, post, Trib amillennial,
1:05:53
whatever. We're in the days of Noah, hands
1:05:57
down. No other generation had had the
1:06:00
ability to play God. We're doing it And that's
1:06:04
something unique, you know. So the early church perked up on
1:06:08
his days of Noah's stuff. You know, they they they knew
1:06:10
the implications of this stuff which which again Michael
1:06:14
Heiser, so, you know so helped the church understand the world
1:06:19
view of the early, you know, the early church and that that these
1:06:22
issues were important to them and we've gone full circle
1:06:25
there. They're going to be important
1:06:27
for us. Well, Paul, I want you to plug.
1:06:31
In where people can find you, they there will be details in
1:06:34
the show notes, but give us a verbal affirmation.
1:06:37
Where can people find your work, your book, or in any social
1:06:41
links that you want to log in as well?
1:06:44
I am again Paul Fowler. I'm Thrones of the Watchers is
1:06:49
the series and the first title is called Enmity and it's
1:06:54
available on Amazon and it's in Kindle format or in paperback
1:06:59
and so you can find that there. I am also Thrones of the
1:07:04
watchers.net. I believe it's let me look it up
1:07:07
real quick. Yeah, I'm at Thrones of the
1:07:09
watchers.com. Sorry I hit that wrong.
1:07:11
It is itis.com. OK.
1:07:14
So I'd be absolutely sure. Also on Amazon you can you can
1:07:19
find there's an author section that gives a little bit of of
1:07:22
details but I'm I'm on Facebook under Thrones of the watchers
1:07:26
and then Amazon is the place. I know people have mixed mixed
1:07:31
feelings about Amazon, but for authors that's sort of where you
1:07:35
you got to have your book. So I enjoyed this conversation.
1:07:39
With you, man. I'm excited to have you back in
1:07:41
the future. We laid a foundation today, you
1:07:44
know about where your heart's at, what you're doing.
1:07:47
I think that, listen, I've gotten a few emails just in the
1:07:53
last couple days of pastors around the country reaching out
1:07:56
that are newer to the the fringe space here on the podcast and
1:08:00
I'm getting like, praise God, thank you so much.
1:08:02
Like, I've been tug of warring with this stuff for so long and
1:08:05
how do I present it to the congregation?
1:08:07
Like it is like, I am a nobody. I'm like, God, Why am I in this
1:08:11
position where I'm like talking with like 20 different pastors
1:08:14
and like all this crazy stuff? So a guy like you, Paul, a man
1:08:18
of God like you comes along and you just lay everything out in a
1:08:23
way that the younger me would have been like, I can digest
1:08:26
this easier. Let's just say journey is
1:08:28
important, process is important. But I'm talking about the
1:08:31
frustration of not having a safe place.
1:08:34
So I think all of this is working together just the way
1:08:38
that it should. I'm a big believer in the
1:08:40
freedom of the spirit and timing.
1:08:43
And with this one right here, I'm going to ask you guys as the
1:08:45
audience to share this episode with your friends, your family
1:08:49
member, your Co worker, and share it with your pastor.
1:08:52
Yeah, that's right. Share it with him too.
1:08:55
Coming to you from Southeastern Pennsylvania, God bless and
1:08:58
goodbye. The.