Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #534 Ben Bowlin with Robert Johnson

Transcript

#534 Ben Bowlin with Robert Johnson · Wrongful Conviction

0:02
Speaker 1: On the night of April fourteenth, nineteen ninety six, a
0:06
Speaker 1: home invasion on Chicago's South Side left twenty four year
0:10
Speaker 1: old Eddie J. Binyon fatally shot. The shooter wore a mask,
0:16
Speaker 1: but not all of the assailants did. Soon one identification
0:21
Speaker 1: led to an interrogation and three more names, one of
0:24
Speaker 1: whom was Robert Johnson. But it appears that violence and
0:29
Speaker 1: threatening teenagers with eighty years in prison might not lead
0:33
Speaker 1: to the most reliable information. This is wrongful Conviction.
0:44
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1:02
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. It's Ben Bollen. I'm back
1:06
Speaker 1: to cover a few more cases for Jason. This one
1:09
Speaker 1: takes us to an unfortunately familiar place, Chicago, Illinois. Joining
1:14
Speaker 1: us from the Exoneration Project to help tell this story.
1:17
Speaker 1: Lauren Myers Koff Mueller. Welcome back, Lord, thanks for having us,
1:21
Speaker 1: and of course us here includes the man himself, Robert Johnson. Robert,
1:26
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us.
1:28
Speaker 3: My pleasure.
1:29
Speaker 1: So Robert, let's start with where you grew up.
1:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, Inglewood, Chicago, like south Side on fifty seven and Aperdeen.
1:38
Speaker 3: The neighborhood was a little messed up. I think that's
1:41
Speaker 3: when the drug epidemic really hit ard. It was a
1:45
Speaker 3: bad area, but it was still okay, Like I was
1:49
Speaker 3: still able to enjoy myself. Me and my brother, we
1:53
Speaker 3: were living with a great aunt and my name was
1:57
Speaker 3: Mae Jones. She stood in for my mother and basically
2:01
Speaker 3: raised us like we were her own and she took
2:04
Speaker 3: care of me from the age two to ten. Then
2:08
Speaker 3: she passed away. Then I went to stay with my grandmother.
2:11
Speaker 3: You know, I remember have very fond memories growing up.
2:15
Speaker 3: I remember one thing that I used to love, like
2:18
Speaker 3: during Christmas time. My grandfather used to take us to
2:22
Speaker 3: Ford City. We used to ride past all the houses
2:25
Speaker 3: with they decorations and stuff up, like I just remember
2:29
Speaker 3: that in my mind. I used to love to do it,
2:31
Speaker 3: like every year. I mean, you had people that really
2:34
Speaker 3: went forward. It was like they was in competition something,
2:38
Speaker 3: it was like, but it was real nice.
2:41
Speaker 4: Well and you haven't been out for Christmas.
2:43
Speaker 3: Yet, so I'm not you know, I haven't even thought
2:47
Speaker 3: that far, but yeah, that's something I definitely would like
2:50
Speaker 3: to do.
2:51
Speaker 1: Having been released in February of twenty twenty five, at
2:54
Speaker 1: the time of this recording, Robert is still experiencing a
2:58
Speaker 1: lot of first having meant more than twenty eight years
3:01
Speaker 1: wrongfully incarcerated at the hands of at least two detectives
3:05
Speaker 1: who had previously worked under John Burge, the notorious detective
3:09
Speaker 1: commander that ran a torture operation out of Chicago's Area
3:12
Speaker 1: two and three. These men were also involved in cases
3:16
Speaker 1: that will link in the episode description, like Marcus Wiggins.
3:19
Speaker 1: By the time of Robert's case, Marcus's mother had already
3:22
Speaker 1: won a civil suit regarding her son's torture that left
3:26
Speaker 1: him with a stutter, So the word was certainly getting
3:30
Speaker 1: around at this time. But kids in Robert's neighborhood already knew.
3:35
Speaker 3: I mean, they really thought that they can do anything
3:38
Speaker 3: to someone like I remember one time I walked out
3:41
Speaker 3: my house, I walked three blocks. By the time I
3:45
Speaker 3: got to the third block, I had been stopped, paded down,
3:49
Speaker 3: and strip searched three times, made to pull my pants
3:54
Speaker 3: down so they can see if I had something in
3:56
Speaker 3: my draws. It's really a blessing that technology has changed
4:01
Speaker 3: and people are able to like just record stuff and
4:04
Speaker 3: get it on camera, but back then they didn't have it.
4:07
Speaker 3: And I mean, it was just notorious in the neighborhood
4:10
Speaker 3: and they really thought that they was not only the
4:13
Speaker 3: law above the law.
4:15
Speaker 1: Did you ever hear about police torturing people around this time?
4:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a known fact, like already, like if
4:23
Speaker 3: the police grabbed you, you getn't beat.
4:26
Speaker 4: It was known maybe in the neighborhoods. But judges were
4:30
Speaker 4: ignoring it and or not believing it, and juries certainly
4:34
Speaker 4: were not believing it. Defense counsel it kind of depended,
4:38
Speaker 4: but typically they said, we're not bringing that up a
4:41
Speaker 4: trial because no what will believe you.
4:44
Speaker 1: So we need to remember the context of what's occurring here.
4:48
Speaker 1: This is the late stage of the crack epidemic era.
4:51
Speaker 1: It's a dire social issue, and it leads to the
4:54
Speaker 1: election of a ton of so called tough on crime politicians.
4:58
Speaker 1: These are folks who gave pretty much unlimited leeway to
5:02
Speaker 1: law enforcement, but this didn't really lead to safer streets.
5:06
Speaker 1: The victim in this case was Robert's close friend Eddie J.
5:09
Speaker 3: Benyon. Yeah, Eddie Benyon Jay, he was my friend. We
5:12
Speaker 3: used to hang out. It was even one time that
5:15
Speaker 3: I ran away from home and he let me sleep
5:18
Speaker 3: in his house. No, I ran away from home because
5:20
Speaker 3: you know, I was mischiedious or whatever. You know. My
5:23
Speaker 3: grandfather was like, you're gonna come in at this time,
5:26
Speaker 3: and I was like, I ain't granddad, you want me
5:28
Speaker 3: to come in at eight o'clock. Like that's when everything started.
5:32
Speaker 3: Like I'm sixteen years old or fifteen years old, like,
5:36
Speaker 3: so I last out and ran away, but he let
5:39
Speaker 3: me stay at his house a couple of days. And
5:42
Speaker 3: I'm sadden. I was sadden when this happened to him.
5:46
Speaker 3: But I didn't even get a chance to even really
5:48
Speaker 3: process the situation because two days later, less than two
5:52
Speaker 3: days later, I was arrested or kidnapped rather.
5:57
Speaker 1: And the night in question was April fourteenth, ninety six.
6:01
Speaker 1: This is around ten thirty or eleven pm. This was
6:04
Speaker 1: after Robert's curfew. Other than a short errand for his grandmother,
6:08
Speaker 1: He's at home for the night. But Robert knew the
6:11
Speaker 1: guys who were involved twenty year old Jimmy Slaughter, seventeen
6:15
Speaker 1: year old Willy Doherty, fifteen year old Fernando Gilbert, and
6:19
Speaker 1: a fourth assailant.
6:20
Speaker 3: I was real tight with Jimmy Slaughter, but we all
6:23
Speaker 3: was cool. The only person that I wasn't really cool
6:26
Speaker 3: with was Willy Doherty. I had only known him for
6:29
Speaker 3: maybe two months at the most. So on the night
6:32
Speaker 3: of the crime, my grandmother sent me to Leon's, a
6:37
Speaker 3: like food joint, because she was hungry. We both was angry,
6:40
Speaker 3: and then she sent me to go and get some
6:42
Speaker 3: bread and a pop. On my way to this store,
6:44
Speaker 3: I sink them. They walked past me and they went
6:47
Speaker 3: their way and I went my way.
6:50
Speaker 4: So there was this group of guys who had this
6:54
Speaker 4: idea to rob j Binyon because he was selling drugs.
7:00
Speaker 4: A few of them had guns, a couple of them
7:02
Speaker 4: wore masks, and the idea was that initially Jimmy Slaughter,
7:08
Speaker 4: he also knew Jay, so he would go in and
7:12
Speaker 4: then he would let the other people in. There were
7:15
Speaker 4: a number of other people in the house, including Jay's girlfriend,
7:19
Speaker 4: and you know, they're basically all corralled into the back
7:22
Speaker 4: of the house while this search was undertaken for the
7:26
Speaker 4: drugs and the money. The problem was that there, I
7:29
Speaker 4: guess wasn't as much money or drugs as was expected.
7:33
Speaker 1: And the fourth assailant, the one who was masked. They
7:36
Speaker 1: shot Jay Binyon in the back of the head without
7:38
Speaker 1: one a care in the world for this young man's life,
7:41
Speaker 1: but two that half of his crew, namely Jimmy Slaughter,
7:45
Speaker 1: were not wearing masks and were in view of the
7:48
Speaker 1: people they knew from the neighborhood, like the victim's girlfriend,
7:52
Speaker 1: Shawna Wilkins.
7:53
Speaker 4: Right, Shawna knew who he was. They called nine one one,
7:57
Speaker 4: and initially Jimmy is treated as put up atually a
8:00
Speaker 4: witness because they didn't necessarily know that he let these
8:05
Speaker 4: guys in on purpose. And during their interrogation of Jimmy,
8:10
Speaker 4: he has now testified that he was abused, choked, and hit,
8:15
Speaker 4: and they get names out of him, and then they
8:19
Speaker 4: go and pick up these other guys, Willie Doherty and
8:22
Speaker 4: Fernando Gilbert, and at that point, you know, they're playing
8:24
Speaker 4: people off of each other and saying, well, this is
8:26
Speaker 4: what other people are saying. They're already saying it's Robert
8:30
Speaker 4: and Willie. He was I think seventeen at the time,
8:35
Speaker 4: and they also abuse him and threaten him, and so
8:39
Speaker 4: he went along with that.
8:40
Speaker 1: Now it appears that it was some mix of Robert's
8:43
Speaker 1: known association with Jimmy Slaughter that brought him to suspicion
8:48
Speaker 1: and the other suspects, Gilbert and Doherty both looking to
8:51
Speaker 1: save themselves from lengthy prison terms, as well as to
8:55
Speaker 1: avoid being labeled snitches for naming that fourth assailant who
8:58
Speaker 1: was not named first by the police. And so with
9:01
Speaker 1: all this, it appears to have been a convergence of
9:04
Speaker 1: various agendas that ultimately led to Robert being pegged as
9:09
Speaker 1: the mask shooter.
9:10
Speaker 3: The fifteenth, when I came home from school, my grandma
9:14
Speaker 3: told me that the police had called there and wanted
9:17
Speaker 3: to talk to me about a conversation that I allegedly heard.
9:21
Speaker 3: She was like, you know, call him back, But you know,
9:24
Speaker 3: I never called him because I'm not calling the police
9:27
Speaker 3: based on my experience with him. I want to be
9:29
Speaker 3: as farther away from as possible. And then I want
9:33
Speaker 3: to say, between two to three o'clock in the morning,
9:37
Speaker 3: the phone ringed and the doorbell ringed at the same time.
9:41
Speaker 3: My grandma went to the door, and I heard the
9:44
Speaker 3: master or was out there, and she told him, yeah,
9:47
Speaker 3: you can talk to him, but not right now. I'm
9:49
Speaker 3: not going to let y'all talk to him at no.
9:51
Speaker 3: Three o'clock in the morning. So Detective O'Brien, I know
9:55
Speaker 3: his voice because he also testified at my trial and
10:00
Speaker 3: he was the one that I had the most inaction with.
10:03
Speaker 3: I heard him say, if you don't let us in,
10:06
Speaker 3: we're gonna kick the door in. And I heard my
10:08
Speaker 3: grandma say, well, kick it in, but I ain't letting
10:11
Speaker 3: y'all talk to him. I'm not opening this door. And
10:14
Speaker 3: then I heard a slam up against the door. I
10:18
Speaker 3: guess they were trying to intimidate her or whatever they
10:21
Speaker 3: was trying to do, and my grandma came back in.
10:24
Speaker 3: You know, I doze back off for maybe an hour,
10:27
Speaker 3: because they came right back. They rang the bell that time,
10:31
Speaker 3: and I haven't did anything, so I was just like,
10:33
Speaker 3: you know, let him in. So initially they told my
10:37
Speaker 3: grandma that we just want to talk to him. We're
10:39
Speaker 3: not taking him nowhere. We just want to ask him
10:41
Speaker 3: a couple of questions. We're gonna do that here if
10:44
Speaker 3: it's okay with you. My grandma said, okay, she let
10:46
Speaker 3: him in. They came in. It was about seven or
10:49
Speaker 3: eight of them. We sat down in my living room.
10:52
Speaker 3: My grandmother got up to go to the bathroom, and
10:56
Speaker 3: Detective O'Brien said to me, get up right now, let's go.
11:02
Speaker 3: They didn't even tell me I was under arrest. They
11:04
Speaker 3: just was like, let's go now. They didn't tell my
11:07
Speaker 3: grandma they was taking me or anything. I said, Grandma,
11:11
Speaker 3: I'm gone, and I found out later on she didn't
11:14
Speaker 3: even hear me, so.
11:15
Speaker 1: She must have come back from the bathroom and then.
11:19
Speaker 3: And I was gone, just gone. I was gone. People
11:40
Speaker 3: find it hard to believe or understand why an individual
11:45
Speaker 3: will confess to a crime that he wouldn't do. I
11:49
Speaker 3: personally know why a person would do that, because I
11:55
Speaker 3: was so afraid that another ten more hours I might
12:00
Speaker 3: have would have said something that I didn't do. Don't
12:05
Speaker 3: be so stern. Would you say, well, I know I
12:07
Speaker 3: wouldn't confess to a crown that I wouldn't do. No,
12:10
Speaker 3: you say that because you have never been inside of
12:13
Speaker 3: one of them interrogation rooms. That's the reason why I'm
12:17
Speaker 3: not mad at Willie Duwherty Shimmy slaughter Often that no
12:21
Speaker 3: guilty because it is pressure and it's like, how do
12:28
Speaker 3: I help myself? That's the only thing you're thinking about survive?
12:34
Speaker 3: How so I mean, I kept on telling them that
12:38
Speaker 3: I wasn't involved, and they just wouldn't listen to me.
12:41
Speaker 3: They was all in my face, screaming and hollering and
12:44
Speaker 3: talking about we know you had something to do with this.
12:48
Speaker 3: Your co defended is saying it's you that you killed Jay.
12:53
Speaker 3: You better tell us something or you're going to spend
12:55
Speaker 3: the rest of your life in prison. But I just
12:58
Speaker 3: kept on telling them, no, I had to do with this.
13:02
Speaker 3: You know, I never wanted to say anybody's name, because
13:05
Speaker 3: you know where I come from, that's frowned upon and
13:09
Speaker 3: you can be killed. But as they began to show
13:11
Speaker 3: me all types of statements and stuff, it seemed like
13:15
Speaker 3: that they are really trying to penness on me. So
13:19
Speaker 3: I said what I thought was going to shed some
13:23
Speaker 3: light on the individual that was involved, Like he was me.
13:27
Speaker 3: I seen these individuals together that night. You know, they
13:30
Speaker 3: looked at me like what else?
13:34
Speaker 1: But he never said anything else, just the names of
13:38
Speaker 1: the four guys that he had seen walking together that night,
13:42
Speaker 1: three of whom had already given statements and one of
13:45
Speaker 1: whom Willie Doherty, had repeated what the police had said
13:49
Speaker 1: that Robert was the fourth assailant.
13:52
Speaker 3: At some point I was charged with first degree murder
13:55
Speaker 3: on Robert and the only days and like I say,
13:58
Speaker 3: another five more hours and no telling what I would
14:01
Speaker 3: have see it. My bond was like five hundred thousand
14:05
Speaker 3: and something like that, fifty to walk. You know, my
14:07
Speaker 3: family not that type of money. So I was in
14:11
Speaker 3: custody at the duration of Montreal.
14:14
Speaker 1: In the meantime, the three other guys are looking for
14:16
Speaker 1: the best deal, right.
14:17
Speaker 4: So all of them filed motions to suppress their statements,
14:21
Speaker 4: alleging different levels of mistreatment or abuse. But the big
14:28
Speaker 4: thing that happened was with Willie Doherty, who was seventeen
14:32
Speaker 4: years old, terrified had been abused by the police and
14:35
Speaker 4: forced to falsely implicate Robert. To begin with, he filed
14:38
Speaker 4: his own motion to suppress his statement, which then was
14:41
Speaker 4: withdrawn when his lawyer came to him with this offer,
14:45
Speaker 4: which was fifteen years at fifty percent, so seven and
14:48
Speaker 4: a half years for a murder in Chicago if he
14:51
Speaker 4: would testify against Robert, and if he didn't do that,
14:54
Speaker 4: he was looking at eighty years, which is where Robert
14:56
Speaker 4: ended up getting. And so he was told, you know,
14:58
Speaker 4: it's either you or him, like he'll take this and
15:02
Speaker 4: testify against you and walk free in seven and a
15:05
Speaker 4: half years, or that's what you could do. So Willy
15:08
Speaker 4: thought that it was kind of his only chance at
15:13
Speaker 4: a life. So he ends up accepting that. And the
15:17
Speaker 4: other guys they did not testify against Robert, but they
15:22
Speaker 4: were allowed to make that same deal. You know. They
15:25
Speaker 4: were like, well, Robert's going down anyway, let's just save ourselves.
15:30
Speaker 1: Robert's trial began a little over a year later, This
15:33
Speaker 1: is on May thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven, and as Robert mentioned,
15:38
Speaker 1: Detective O'Brien testified, but the substance of his testimony appeared
15:43
Speaker 1: to do little more than a firm in the record
15:46
Speaker 1: that he had done everything by the book.
15:48
Speaker 3: Detective O'Brien say, he came there to arrest me and
15:54
Speaker 3: told my grandma that I was under arrest and that
15:58
Speaker 3: if she wanted to she can accompany me. Then he
16:01
Speaker 3: said that my grandma declined.
16:03
Speaker 1: And at this point, you were sixteen.
16:06
Speaker 3: Sixteen, not any ration, no person, no a grandmother like
16:10
Speaker 3: grandmothers don't play about they grand suos in now for real,
16:13
Speaker 3: it ain't no way that she would have declined to
16:17
Speaker 3: come with me.
16:19
Speaker 1: And perhaps the subtext there was even this kid's grandmother
16:23
Speaker 1: doesn't think he's innocent. However, that is undercut by one
16:28
Speaker 1: of the state's only eye witnesses, Shawanna Wilkins, the victim's girlfriend.
16:32
Speaker 1: We mentioned earlier. She had an obvious interest in getting
16:36
Speaker 1: the right person, and she testified to Robert's innocence.
16:39
Speaker 4: The girlfriend who witnessed everything testified she did not see
16:43
Speaker 4: Robert there. She knew Robert because, as Robert said, he
16:47
Speaker 4: was friends with Jay, and he'd been around, and she
16:48
Speaker 4: said the same thing, Knewes's voice, did not recognize his
16:52
Speaker 4: voice or him as one of the perpetrators. Jay's sister
16:56
Speaker 4: also testified that Robert was very close friends with her brother.
17:00
Speaker 3: She was only able to testify to us being close
17:04
Speaker 3: friends when my attorney tried to ask her, did you
17:08
Speaker 3: believe that Robert was involved? I believe she answered the
17:13
Speaker 3: question no, But I think the judge told the jury
17:17
Speaker 3: to disregard it. But the fact that she got up
17:22
Speaker 3: there and testified, I think should have helped. But it didn't.
17:27
Speaker 1: So it appears that the state star witness, Willie Doherty,
17:30
Speaker 1: was enough to convince the jury.
17:32
Speaker 4: That's the only evidence against it, and yet he was
17:34
Speaker 4: still convicted. Because back then, in the nineties and it's
17:38
Speaker 4: still a lot of the time today, but especially then,
17:41
Speaker 4: if someone's sitting in the defendant's chair, the jury assumes
17:44
Speaker 4: they did it because to get to that point, the prosecution,
17:48
Speaker 4: the police believe you did it, so you must have
17:50
Speaker 4: done it, or at least done something.
17:52
Speaker 3: But a part of me was like, you mean to
17:55
Speaker 3: tell me that one person out of twelve people can't
17:58
Speaker 3: say wait a minute, hold on, here is a guy
18:02
Speaker 3: that's taking a pleat deal. We know that he was
18:04
Speaker 3: involved because he's saying he was involved, and he's being
18:08
Speaker 3: off of this deal and he's going to walk up
18:09
Speaker 3: out of here because we had already been there for
18:12
Speaker 3: about a year and a half, so he was going
18:13
Speaker 3: to go home in less than six years versus him
18:17
Speaker 3: getting eighty years, and it's the only thing they got here.
18:21
Speaker 3: I just would have thought it was somebody that would
18:23
Speaker 3: have been like, wait a minute, I don't believe this.
18:25
Speaker 3: I'm not convicting this keyd because that's what I was.
18:29
Speaker 4: So Robert had the fifty five years on the first
18:33
Speaker 4: degree murder and then twenty five years on the arm
18:36
Speaker 4: robbery and the home invasion. Those two were concurrent, so
18:40
Speaker 4: it added up to eighty years.
18:42
Speaker 3: When the guilty verdict came in, I pit my fist
18:47
Speaker 3: in my mouth and I just bit down on it
18:51
Speaker 3: as hard as I could to somewhat compose myself. I
18:57
Speaker 3: began crying. I had a public defender. His name was
19:01
Speaker 3: Bob Gaultra. I remember he put his hand on my shoulder.
19:06
Speaker 3: And while it may have been a simple gesture, in
19:10
Speaker 3: that moment, I needed that actually was shipped to stay
19:28
Speaker 3: there a seventeen year. That place is a nightmare, and
19:33
Speaker 3: it's you know, grown me in here. You immediately know
19:39
Speaker 3: that my childhood that's over with. Ain't no more child,
19:43
Speaker 3: Ain't no more am a kid. You have to grow
19:48
Speaker 3: up fast, Ain't no games, ain't no playing. You need
19:53
Speaker 3: to learn how to survive quick, what to do, what
19:58
Speaker 3: not to do? You need to understand all this or
20:04
Speaker 3: lose your life. My mind couldn't accept the fact that
20:11
Speaker 3: I was about to spend eighty years of my life
20:16
Speaker 3: under these conditions. But I mean, it's hell being there
20:20
Speaker 3: for something you did do, But to wake up every
20:23
Speaker 3: day knowing that you didn't have nothing to do with this,
20:26
Speaker 3: that is I don't even I don't even know the
20:28
Speaker 3: word for that. And I seriously contemplated taking my life,
20:34
Speaker 3: like I was really close. I remember times, and I
20:39
Speaker 3: went through this for a few years, Like I'd hear
20:42
Speaker 3: a phone ring and be like, oh, well, maybe that's
20:45
Speaker 3: them calling to say, yeah, he ain't had nothing to
20:48
Speaker 3: do with that. Y'all got the wrong guy like that.
20:50
Speaker 3: Let him out. We made a mistake, but you know,
20:52
Speaker 3: the call that never came. My family was a real
20:57
Speaker 3: big support system for me, My grandmother, my cousin. At
21:04
Speaker 3: the time, I had a brother that was also in
21:06
Speaker 3: prison as well. I didn't know that day I had
21:09
Speaker 3: a brother that was incocerated. They allowed us to correspond
21:12
Speaker 3: with each other, and he sent me different letters and
21:16
Speaker 3: was encouraging me.
21:19
Speaker 1: Robert's brother encouraged him to learn the law, which was
21:22
Speaker 1: even more difficult for him than we usually hear.
21:25
Speaker 3: When I first went to prison, I could barely read.
21:28
Speaker 3: I remember when I first began to read the law.
21:30
Speaker 3: It was like it was a whole other language, you know.
21:33
Speaker 3: But I had some guys around me that helped me
21:36
Speaker 3: instead me in the right direction. Actually it was this
21:39
Speaker 3: older individual named James Edwards. He was actually wrongfully convicted
21:44
Speaker 3: as well. He was later exonerated as well. He helped
21:49
Speaker 3: me file my poaching viction.
21:51
Speaker 1: Thankfully, Robert's co defendants began to come clean, first Jimmy
21:56
Speaker 1: Slaughter in two thousand and one, and then Willie Doherty
21:59
Speaker 1: inand and in three, both of whom stated that Robert
22:02
Speaker 1: was in no way involved.
22:04
Speaker 4: So he did a pro say filing in two thousand
22:07
Speaker 4: and nine, which is basically the same pleading that eventually
22:12
Speaker 4: got him released in twenty twenty five. So the way
22:15
Speaker 4: that it works in Illinois is you don't have a
22:18
Speaker 4: right to counsel for post conviction. In Illinois, there's a
22:22
Speaker 4: statutory right to counsel if your post conviction gets past
22:26
Speaker 4: the first stage, but you have to raise enough evidence
22:30
Speaker 4: to get there without a lawyer. So it's this bar
22:33
Speaker 4: already that people have. But Robert's case did get to
22:37
Speaker 4: the second stage, and so then he had a lawyer
22:40
Speaker 4: who filed an amended petition raising the same claims that
22:44
Speaker 4: was in twenty fourteen, and this lawyer had an updated
22:47
Speaker 4: affidavit from Jimmy Slaughter, but the judge dismissed the petition
22:52
Speaker 4: at the second stage.
22:53
Speaker 1: Which is pretty wild considering that the only witness who
22:57
Speaker 1: said he was the shooter Willie Doherty was now literally
23:01
Speaker 1: saying that Robert was not involved at all, which was
23:04
Speaker 1: then corroborated by Jimmy Slaughter as well. And if you're
23:08
Speaker 1: going to say that now he's not credible, then when
23:11
Speaker 1: was he ever credible? Yet still, this judge ruled in
23:15
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen that the evidence of actual innocence, which was
23:19
Speaker 1: the recantation of the state's sole inculpatory witness, was somehow insufficient, which.
23:25
Speaker 4: What more do you want?
23:26
Speaker 3: Right?
23:27
Speaker 4: It's not every case, especially now, has DNA or something
23:31
Speaker 4: that is a smoking gun. Most cases have eyewitness misidentification,
23:36
Speaker 4: which they didn't even have that here because the eyewitness
23:38
Speaker 4: that it wasn't Robert that was appealed. So I think
23:41
Speaker 4: it was in twenty eighteen that Alison Flowers, an investigative
23:45
Speaker 4: journalist she had been looking into Robert's case, had written
23:49
Speaker 4: an article. It was The Invisible Institute. It was published
23:53
Speaker 4: in the Daily Beast, just doing fantastic work covering different witnesses,
23:58
Speaker 4: talking to different people, covering some of the misconduct and
24:02
Speaker 4: the case. And so she came to me and I
24:06
Speaker 4: took a look, and we waited for that decision, and
24:09
Speaker 4: the appellate court remanded for the evident Jerry Hearing saying
24:13
Speaker 4: basically that there was so little evidence against Robert to
24:17
Speaker 4: begin with, that these witnesses would make a difference. You know,
24:21
Speaker 4: if they're credible, you need to at least listen to
24:23
Speaker 4: these people and see what they have to say.
24:25
Speaker 1: That was all in twenty twenty, and Lauren and the
24:28
Speaker 1: Exoneration Project began their reinvestigation to develop more evidence.
24:33
Speaker 4: It was difficult to investigate and interview people in heavy
24:37
Speaker 4: COVID times, but eventually we were able to talk to
24:41
Speaker 4: a bunch of different people. Willy Doherty was the hardest
24:45
Speaker 4: one to get in touch with. We eventually did. I
24:48
Speaker 4: mean understandably. Jimmy Slaughter also felt very bad about what
24:53
Speaker 4: had happened, but Willy was really devastated by having testified
24:58
Speaker 4: falsely against Robert. And Robert has already said that he
25:03
Speaker 4: doesn't blame them because he was in the same situation.
25:07
Speaker 4: He understands better than anyone else why Willy took that
25:11
Speaker 4: deal and why he did what he did.
25:12
Speaker 1: In addition, Lauren and another attorney with the Exoneration Project
25:17
Speaker 1: began Richardson developed pattern and practice evidence, much of which
25:21
Speaker 1: had become available from other cases in which detectives O'Brien
25:25
Speaker 1: and Moser had been exposed for the same kind of misconduct,
25:29
Speaker 1: and they were finally ready to supplement the petition in
25:33
Speaker 1: late twenty twenty three. They had the hearing in twenty
25:36
Speaker 1: twenty four, by which time Jimmy Slaughter and Willie Doherty
25:40
Speaker 1: had come clean with the fourth assailant, the same guy
25:43
Speaker 1: who Robert had said he'd seen walking with the group
25:46
Speaker 1: that night, Tremaine Taylor.
25:49
Speaker 4: So Tremaine is deceased now he was killed in I
25:54
Speaker 4: think it was twenty eighteen. We're not able to talk
25:57
Speaker 4: to him. But Willie Doherty to fight at our hearing,
26:01
Speaker 4: admitted his own involvement and identified the other participants as Slaughter, Gilbert,
26:06
Speaker 4: and Taylor. He said that Tremaine had the gun, Robert
26:10
Speaker 4: wasn't there, wasn't involved at all, and that he basically
26:14
Speaker 4: fled as soon as it started to get questionable. That
26:18
Speaker 4: you know, he didn't think anyone was going to get hurt,
26:21
Speaker 4: is what he had said. And Jimmy Slaughter also admitted
26:25
Speaker 4: his own involvement and identified the other perpetrators as Doherty, Gilbert,
26:29
Speaker 4: and Taylor. Also said Tremaine had the gun and that
26:33
Speaker 4: Robert wasn't involved at all, wasn't even there. And then
26:37
Speaker 4: there were a number of people who came forward to
26:40
Speaker 4: say that Tremaine confessed to them at different points, so
26:44
Speaker 4: either right after it happened or a few years down
26:48
Speaker 4: the line, including his best friend, his own brothers. You know,
26:53
Speaker 4: his mom has spoken to different people, including journalists, and
26:57
Speaker 4: her belief and understanding is that her son did it.
27:02
Speaker 4: So we had the hearing in the fall, and the
27:05
Speaker 4: judge took it under advisement basically and was reviewing everything
27:10
Speaker 4: and was going to come back with her ruling in February,
27:13
Speaker 4: which was vacating Robert's conviction.
27:17
Speaker 3: And I was just like, man, I heard my family
27:20
Speaker 3: back there hollering, which they're not supposed to do. Yeah,
27:24
Speaker 3: the George immediately got on them like, hey, don't do
27:27
Speaker 3: that anything.
27:27
Speaker 1: I mean, if there is ever a time to yell
27:31
Speaker 1: or whistle or whatever, this has gotta be one of
27:34
Speaker 1: those times. This is February nineteen, twenty twenty five.
27:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a memory that I relive over and
27:41
Speaker 3: over again.
27:43
Speaker 2: Like.
27:45
Speaker 3: I just act really can't even describe it. It was
27:48
Speaker 3: like a dream, like it was something that I waited
27:53
Speaker 3: for so long that I prayed for. That I fought
27:57
Speaker 3: for something that I thought wasn't even to happen at
28:00
Speaker 3: some point, you know.
28:02
Speaker 4: So the judge granted him bond and he then walked out.
28:06
Speaker 3: That next day, first I had went back to my
28:09
Speaker 3: grandmother's house. My grandma said, I want you to walk
28:12
Speaker 3: through the door, because she kept on saying every time
28:15
Speaker 3: that I talked to her in prison, I just want
28:18
Speaker 3: to see you walk through that door.
28:20
Speaker 4: And she lived at the same house right she did.
28:23
Speaker 3: That was another surreal moment walking back into that house
28:26
Speaker 3: after twenty eight years and ten months. They didn't even
28:29
Speaker 3: look the same, but it was on. So I ended
28:32
Speaker 3: up walking through the door and she was like, everybody,
28:34
Speaker 3: get it pitched while you walking into the door. So
28:36
Speaker 3: I ended up walking in the door before somebody was
28:38
Speaker 3: able to take fits it. So she told me, no,
28:40
Speaker 3: you go back out, walk back out. I had to
28:43
Speaker 3: walk back out and walk back in, and everybody took
28:46
Speaker 3: pictures of me and walking in, and we talked for
28:49
Speaker 3: a brief moment and I say, well, look, Grandma, the
28:52
Speaker 3: first thing I need to do is I need to
28:54
Speaker 3: jump in the tub. That's the first thing I want
28:57
Speaker 3: to do in the bathtub.
29:01
Speaker 4: And then soon thereafter you got to be there for
29:04
Speaker 4: her ninety third birthday.
29:06
Speaker 3: You know, I love telling this one particular story about
29:09
Speaker 3: her ninety third birthday. So every year my grandma while
29:13
Speaker 3: I was in prison, they asked her what is your wish?
29:16
Speaker 3: And every year it has been to see my grandson
29:19
Speaker 3: come home. And they asked her again and she said,
29:24
Speaker 3: I ain't got no wish. This year, my wish is
29:29
Speaker 3: standing next to me. I got what I wished for.
29:33
Speaker 3: That's what we both both wish for.
29:35
Speaker 4: You know, I love it. Yeah, it makes me cry.
29:40
Speaker 4: Then it was I think it's like a month later
29:43
Speaker 4: that we had the date for the state to decide
29:46
Speaker 4: are we appealing, are we moving forward with the trial,
29:49
Speaker 4: et cetera. And they came in and they dropped all
29:52
Speaker 4: the charges.
29:53
Speaker 1: It's not like they had any evidence to present, and
29:55
Speaker 1: so it was.
29:56
Speaker 4: Like the day after that, I think, right that you
29:59
Speaker 4: got to leave for the Innocent Network conference in Seattle.
30:03
Speaker 3: Yeah. I probably had the best time of my life there.
30:07
Speaker 3: It was so much love and support in Karateie, just
30:11
Speaker 3: a lot of people that was understood my feelings and
30:15
Speaker 3: my thoughts, and a lot of compassionate people as well.
30:19
Speaker 3: That didn't go through what we went through, but they
30:22
Speaker 3: was outraged by people being wrongfully convicted and spending twenty
30:27
Speaker 3: and thirty years of their life in prison.
30:29
Speaker 1: And our crew here at wrongful conviction. We never miss it.
30:33
Speaker 1: In fact, next year it'll be in Chicago and we're
30:35
Speaker 1: all looking forward to it. And if anybody listening wants
30:39
Speaker 1: to help Robert get back on his feet, his GoFundMe
30:41
Speaker 1: is linked here in the episode description, so please give
30:45
Speaker 1: if you can. And with that we go to our clothes.
30:48
Speaker 1: We want to give the last word to Lauren and
30:51
Speaker 1: Robert Souren. How about we start with you. What do
30:55
Speaker 1: we want people to take away from this story?
31:00
Speaker 4: Particular, people who I've met who have gone through this
31:03
Speaker 4: and people who have been wrongly convicted are some of
31:06
Speaker 4: just the most amazing people that you could ever meet,
31:08
Speaker 4: Just the strongest, kindest, most grateful people. And Robert even
31:14
Speaker 4: tops all of that. I mean, he's just always been
31:18
Speaker 4: such a sweet person, so thoughtful, always asking after my
31:24
Speaker 4: kids and my family and concerned about how I'm doing
31:28
Speaker 4: when he's going through the worst possible thing anyone can
31:31
Speaker 4: go through. And I'm just so like I said, lucky
31:35
Speaker 4: to know Robert lucky that I got to work on
31:38
Speaker 4: his case, that I got to be one of the
31:40
Speaker 4: ones to bring the truth to light. And I'm grateful
31:44
Speaker 4: that I get to watch everything that he's going to do.
31:47
Speaker 4: He already has a job that he's really enjoying, and
31:51
Speaker 4: he's spreading the word about wrongful convictions, and I just
31:56
Speaker 4: feel so blessed to be even a small part of
31:59
Speaker 4: the story. Worry that is Robert Johnson.
32:02
Speaker 3: Just a few people that I would like to just
32:05
Speaker 3: wholeheartedly thank them, because without them, I wouldn't be sitting
32:09
Speaker 3: right here. James Edwards, they helped me file my post
32:13
Speaker 3: in fiction, adolphful Davis, who introduced me to a journalist.
32:19
Speaker 3: Her name is Elise. She talked to Alison Flowers, I
32:23
Speaker 3: want to think at least and Alison Flowers as well,
32:26
Speaker 3: who brought my case to Lauren and Meghan. There is
32:31
Speaker 3: no words that I can express how thankful I am,
32:34
Speaker 3: how much I appreciate y'all. And I want to thank
32:37
Speaker 3: Natasha Tyler because she fought hard for me, but I'll
32:41
Speaker 3: never forget that ever, and last but not least, my
32:45
Speaker 3: family as well. What I would want people to take
32:49
Speaker 3: from this is that if you're on one of them. Jurors.
32:52
Speaker 3: Don't just assume that a person that's sitting at that.
32:55
Speaker 5: Table is guilty because the police said he did it,
32:58
Speaker 5: or the prosecutor says he did it, but he listen
33:02
Speaker 5: to the evidence. Because there are people in prison for
33:07
Speaker 5: crime that they did not commit. It is my understanding
33:10
Speaker 5: that Chicago is leading the nation and Wrong for Convictions
33:14
Speaker 5: right now. I just want people to bear in mind
33:17
Speaker 5: that these things happen a lot, and we need to
33:21
Speaker 5: do something to stop if I'm happening, And I do
33:24
Speaker 5: have one thing I would like to say for the
33:27
Speaker 5: man of the woman that's now in prison for a crime.
33:31
Speaker 3: That they didn't commit. Keep your hope. Don't let them
33:34
Speaker 3: take that from you. Keep on fighting. It took me
33:37
Speaker 3: twenty eight years and ten months. Don't never give up.
33:40
Speaker 3: I can almost bet you something will happen.
33:49
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction. You can
33:51
Speaker 2: listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts
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Speaker 2: for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Thank our production team,
34:01
Speaker 2: Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow
34:04
Speaker 2: executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cleiber. The
34:07
Speaker 2: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR
34:10
Speaker 2: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across
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Speaker 2: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at
34:16
Speaker 2: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at
34:19
Speaker 2: It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava
34:22
Speaker 2: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One.
34:25
Speaker 2: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported
34:28
Speaker 2: in this show are accurate.
34:29
Speaker 5: The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in
34:32
Speaker 5: this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect
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Speaker 5: those of Lava for Good.