Latest / Finding New Waters / Peer Support and Sobriety: Isaac Waters' Key to Success

Transcript

Peer Support and Sobriety: Isaac Waters' Key to Success · Finding New Waters

0:00
I think a big thing about like interventions today is that
0:04
historically and what you saw on TV was this like surprise
0:06
Factor, like let's trick your loved one into coming to a place
0:10
where they're not going to be comfortable where they're going
0:12
to have their guard up. And we're there, you're going to
0:14
sit down and read them some letters.
0:15
That's not how like 85% of them are done today.
0:18
There are still some people who do it that way, but it's not the
0:21
majority of it. Now there are some circumstances
0:23
where maybe that's your only option, it's your only option.
0:51
Good afternoon. My name is Graham dirty and I'm
0:53
the founder and CEO of new orders recovery in Raleigh.
0:55
North Carolina. Welcome to our weekly podcast
0:57
finding new Waters. I'm joined today by our director
1:00
of admissions and Outreach be Reeves and Isaac Waters, who's
1:03
the founder of recovery Frameworks?
1:05
Recovery Frameworks, offers non-clinical Support Services to
1:08
supplement. The teams of individuals with
1:11
substance use disorder and eating disorders.
1:14
Isaac Waters is a certified peer specialist, a life coach and
1:17
certified arise interventionist. He works extensively with
1:20
individuals. Families were struggling with
1:22
navigating early recovery from addictions mental health, mental
1:25
health, barriers, and eating disorders.
1:28
In the past. He's dealt with his own
1:29
struggles with substance use disorders mental health,
1:31
challenges and family systems in long-term recovery.
1:34
Isaac now dedicates his life to working with individuals in
1:37
recovery, it is his passion to help families, heal to watch
1:40
individuals launch into a new phase of life and help those, he
1:43
works with fine purpose, our goal in creating finding new
1:47
Waters, is to provide a resource for families to help navigate
1:50
the Exit. He's of supporting a loved one
1:52
while struggling with substance use or mental health issues when
1:55
we find ourselves in crisis due to one of these issues.
1:57
Most people have no idea where to turn we hope to shed some
2:00
light on to what is often The Darkest Hour for many families.
2:03
Isaac, thank you for joining us today.
2:05
Happy to be here and thanks for having me, of course.
2:08
And this has been kind of long overdue and happy to finally
2:11
have you up here. And so Isaac is actually joining
2:15
us today from Atlanta flew up last night, so we're very
2:17
grateful for him. You know, traveling all this way
2:20
and person. And, you know, I was doing a
2:23
little bit of research leading up to this.
2:25
And, you know, one of the things that kind of I came across early
2:28
on. Was that your guy that got
2:30
sober, very young, right? How old were you, when you got
2:33
sober? I was 19 when I got sober.
2:35
Absolutely, incredibly a teenager.
2:36
Yeah, object and, you know, for me, you know, I was 26.
2:40
When I finally ended up getting sober but I definitely could
2:43
have gotten sober a lot younger, you know, for me, it was
2:46
drinking was really, it was never a social thing.
2:49
It was always an issue. Ooh, I was drinking tequila by
2:52
myself at 14 years old, in my bedroom, while I was supposed to
2:55
be doing homework, which is not a normal and a behavior pattern
3:00
by any means. And, you know, so you know what
3:03
was interesting was that, my family was very much in the
3:05
dark. And, you know, I grew up in one
3:07
of those families where, you know, you don't talk about those
3:09
uncomfortable things, right? You kind of, she's sweep
3:11
everything under the rug and I always find it.
3:13
So interesting, when people get sober that young and are able to
3:16
sustain long-term sobriety for that long and that period of
3:20
time, and So, tell us a little bit about what that was like,
3:23
and and kind of some of your experiences getting sober that
3:25
young. Yeah, definitely I think it was,
3:27
I come from a family that like alcoholism has ran rampant
3:30
through. Like, I'm, I think,
3:33
fifth-generation at this point and so, it was no surprise.
3:36
Like, my mom, I can remember when I was 12 years old being
3:38
like, hey, you might have a problem with this one day.
3:40
And like that was the last time we talked about is your family
3:43
in recovery. So, my father is, there you go?
3:46
Yeah. So I think that, I briefly
3:47
mentioned it, we were talking about another treatment center
3:49
before the podcast, and I was like, yeah, My dad went there a
3:51
few times and so that was that was like my childhood and I grew
3:54
up that way and it was kind of I can remember like dare coming to
3:57
schools and stuff like that. And I was always the first one
3:59
to sign my name, because I like new like what drugs and alcohol
4:01
did to people in like my dad was very successful, like it was not
4:05
like one of those stories. And so I had, you know, some of
4:08
that stigma was already broken down and me I know it could
4:10
happen to anybody and I always told myself it wasn't going to
4:13
happen to me and I was a late bloomer in my friend group and
4:16
like it was the first thing. I was the first one to fall down
4:19
to sew. I think that like from the
4:22
moment I started using, like drugs and alcohol, I knew that
4:25
it was going to be a problem. Like there was no doubt, I knew
4:28
that I liked it, more than my friends.
4:30
And it took me quickly, like, I think that I took my first drink
4:33
at 16, and I was in a treatment center at 17, so like, very
4:37
fast, very fast, and mom, dad, probably picked up on it very
4:40
fast. My dad was still drinking.
4:43
Yeah, he was my little Hideout. So I would go out there when I
4:45
get in trouble with Mom and like, Dad, like was none the
4:48
wiser on to what was going on and I got in a lot of trouble
4:51
very quickly as well. And so, I think that like, when
4:54
that like Sherrod, fell down, my parents were very attentive.
4:58
And I went through this period where I would go to treatment,
5:01
and my dad would be drinking. I'd come back from treatment and
5:04
he would go to treatment. So, we did this thing for like
5:06
three years where like, we each, you know, when the other one was
5:09
in treatment, we would relapse like whoever was at home.
5:11
And then finally, my dad and I went to treatment at the same
5:14
time, we went to the same treatment facility.
5:17
Now, what'd ya say? Drusilla T, I got there like
5:20
three months. That he did.
5:21
And when I walked in the door they're like, oh you're Dave
5:22
son, we've been expecting. You and I was like, you guys are
5:25
awful. So yeah, my dad and I have my
5:30
dad's got like, three more months and I do sober and we've
5:32
both been able to maintain it. That's this point.
5:35
Yeah, and Mom had to deal with all that Mom.
5:38
Got the short end of the stick, for sure, for sure isn't.
5:42
She's Saint? Yes, a lovely woman.
5:44
Lovely woman. So, and so, how many times were
5:47
you in treatment? I would just treat men.
5:49
If you count like, PHP and iops after residential, I went to six
5:53
different facilities. Gotcha.
5:55
But that was a lot of it was kind of a continuation as step
5:58
down from residential, always a step down.
6:01
And so I each time I went to treatment, I would come back and
6:03
do an IOP when I got out. So what do you think was was one
6:07
of the kind of key factors in, in you being able to figure this
6:12
out at such a young age? Yeah.
6:13
So I went to tablet recovery when I was 19 and at the time
6:18
they had a young adult program. And so I had been thrown into
6:21
like teen treatment centers where nobody wanted to be there
6:24
and that I had been thrown into the like generic, you know,
6:27
Insurance male treatment facility down in Florida.
6:30
And you know, just across like I'm sitting next to a 75 year
6:33
old woman, that's there for opiates.
6:34
And like I'm not, I have nothing to identify with her and then
6:38
when I sat in that room and there was 45 guys between 18 and
6:42
25 like that were talking about recovery and like trying to do
6:45
things and talking about going to college or talking about
6:47
being in college and how they're going to navigate this now, I
6:50
think that it was the first time that I like had tried this
6:53
recovery way of life, and did not feel hopeless.
6:56
So, like there was something to achieve just beyond getting
6:59
sober that like my life had purpose.
7:01
Again, it's also did you just manage this?
7:04
Not only stay sober, but have fun going to the College of
7:08
Charleston. Yeah, so I over, I waited two
7:12
years into my recovery to go to college.
7:14
So like I really wanted to be prepared for that like seeing,
7:17
you know, because called strassens a big party scene,
7:19
like everything that I ever knew about.
7:20
College. It was just like one big party
7:22
and Beyond the academics. Like I was kind of nervous about
7:26
navigating that and I had this Core group of friends that were
7:31
all sober and all young, and all doing things.
7:33
Like they all had this thing that they were passionate about.
7:36
They had all gone to college, or they were coming back and they
7:39
were in med school or they were in PT school.
7:41
And so this group there was like seven or eight of us that we
7:44
just like hung out all the time. Like when someone was out of
7:47
school or someone was off work, there was we lived in the house
7:50
that everybody. He came by to to, like, get
7:51
together on a Friday night and sometimes we would do a meeting.
7:54
Sometimes we would do a poker game.
7:56
Sometimes we would go out to eat, like, whatever it was.
7:58
I had, you know, I believe that people sober up, you know
8:02
together, but they stay sober and packs, like people find
8:05
their Core group and they stick together.
8:08
You know, last year I was in five weddings of those guys.
8:11
And so, like everyone has continued to stay sober and I
8:14
think that it's like a testament to like what?
8:16
We did very early on. That's amazing.
8:19
Yeah. It's and it's incredible to You
8:21
know, unfortunately, most colleges are not very open to
8:25
having a lot of these Supportive Services on the canvas, right?
8:28
And it's like, they don't want to recognize the fact that
8:30
they've got a substance use problem or a mental health
8:32
problem on their fists, on their, on their campus and they
8:36
would rather just kick the kid out.
8:38
Or, you know, just kind of, you know, not deal with the issue
8:40
rather than somehow supporting or creating some resources on
8:43
campus that can support their students that are in sobriety,
8:46
right? So I think College of Charleston
8:48
going back to that is really interesting.
8:50
Because they're one of these, you know, programs have been
8:52
really open to it. And I've done an incredible job
8:54
of Khalid creating a collegial program for recovery and you
8:59
were one of the founders of their Collegiate program.
9:00
So can you kind of talked about that process and getting that
9:03
launched? Exactly how much time do we
9:05
have? Yeah, so that we started that
9:08
initiative in 2015 and it was several of my friends, Steve
9:14
pulley, who is a great guy who had gone through the Collegiate
9:16
recovery program at Georgia Southern, which was one of the
9:18
first they got that. In from Texas Tech and have been
9:22
up and running for a long time that he was coming back to MUSC
9:27
for PT school. That was one of the guys that I
9:29
was just mentioning. And so he came down and another
9:33
friend of mine. Sam spafford had gone to
9:35
Augsburg College, which was the second Collegiate recovery
9:37
program. He had just moved to Charleston.
9:39
My friend, John Nix was starting at CFC, he had done a semester
9:44
and I had been applying for, you know, two years to get into the
9:46
College of Charleston and kept getting denied and so we Had
9:50
started growing tournament. Yeah.
9:52
Resilient I think is. That's why I say we had started
9:56
going to them and saying like, hey, we'd like to start this,
9:58
you know, initiative on campus. Like we only had one actual
10:01
student and just like three random guys were knocking on
10:03
doors saying like we'd like to help you guys start this and we
10:07
kept hearing that same thing. Like if we start a program like
10:09
this, it's emitting that we have a drug problem on campus and
10:11
it's like it's not admitting you have a drug problem.
10:14
It is admitting that there are students in recovery on your
10:16
campus like which is totally two very different things.
10:20
And finally, I'm sitting in an office, one day we had like,
10:24
somehow finagled this meeting with the dean of students who,
10:27
you know, the last time I was sitting in a Dean's office, like
10:29
I was being asked to leave my high school, you know?
10:30
And so everyone had gone around and we had like a federal judge
10:33
in the room. We had like three tenured
10:35
professors. Everyone's giving these like
10:36
long, like, you know, explanations of who they are and
10:40
why they're here. And I was like, my name is Isaac
10:42
Waters. Like, I've applied to your
10:43
school seven times and been denied.
10:45
Like, I want to help you guys, and I got a call.
10:48
Like, I think a week later that I had been accepted.
10:52
And so we got started. We applied for a grant and
10:54
received it and me and John, Nick's met with, you know, dr.
10:58
Jerry Cabot at the time, was the dean of students.
11:00
We met with her once a week, and just like started resource
11:03
mapping and seeing like, who the players were, who could support
11:07
this? What what could we do?
11:09
And finally the school was like we can't give you guys any
11:11
money, like we can't do it and we were all like we want you to
11:14
hire director. We want you to hired a director,
11:16
we want our own physical space. Like we had a lot, a ton of big
11:19
asks for them. And they were like, well if you
11:22
go raise, you know, half a million dollars will start this
11:26
thing for you and we were all like hopeless.
11:29
Like you know, little kids in the first person that we talked
11:31
to donated 118 thousand dollars on the spot.
11:34
Wow that's incredible. And so after that you know it
11:37
just like snowballed you know she held a fundraiser at our
11:39
house we got you know over three hundred thousand dollars donated
11:43
and like two months and then we started the director search and
11:48
I think that you guys both know would March and at this point
11:50
He's the director there. He has been since 2016 and you
11:53
know, it started with two students.
11:54
And at this point it's graduated like 35 and there's 20 active
11:58
students in the program today, so awesome.
12:00
Yeah, very cool. Very cool.
12:02
Yeah, I actually went there a few months back and I visited
12:05
with would Marshawn and he is, you know, still just, you know,
12:11
he's in there every day with these guys and they're grinding.
12:13
And if they have this this little office space with, you
12:16
know, tons of snacks and food and, you know, all the guys come
12:19
in and just hang out in between Class and do homework and it's
12:22
just a real Community within this community, you know, and
12:26
it's just like why? I just don't understand why we
12:28
can't wrap our head around. Why we need these resources in
12:30
these colleges, right? I mean, you know, listen, we're
12:33
dealing with the one of the biggest epidemics that we've
12:35
ever seen. And now, coming off of the
12:36
pandemic. I mean it's, you know, people
12:38
can't get into doctors, they can't get into providers.
12:40
They you know, we're going downhill fast and we just need
12:44
to wake up, you know. Well I love the idea of the
12:47
Collegiate recovery, you know, instead of it having to admit or
12:50
Air quotes having to admit. We have a problem here.
12:53
It's more. Like, how about we have now?
12:54
We have a solution. Hope, you know, that's so cool.
12:57
And it's interesting, the schools who have gotten gotten
13:02
it, you know, Texas Tech and Augsburg didn't know about that.
13:06
But then Charlotte from Bama, ZZ you guys here in North Carolina,
13:12
actually, the state requires it. So if you're a state-run
13:16
university here in North Carolina, you have to have a
13:18
set. Go.
13:19
That's two. And 15.
13:21
Yeah. So do you guys have done a
13:23
wonderful job here? Yeah, it's awesome.
13:25
Yeah. What do you tell me?
13:27
Now what's the demographic of people you work with typically
13:31
from recovery Frameworks? Yeah.
13:34
At recovery Frameworks. We see this like bizarre into
13:36
the spectrum because I think obviously, like just do to my
13:39
history. Like we do a ton of college-aged
13:41
individuals. So we see this interesting like
13:45
kind of spread its 13 to 20 and then it is 55 to 70.
13:51
And so we are getting individuals that this might be
13:54
their first like Soiree into like recovery initiatives or
13:57
treatment or complex kind of issues.
14:00
And then we see individuals who are kind of in their retired
14:03
life and like have, you know, started some habits that aren't
14:06
necessarily supportive to their long-term Health.
14:08
Basically to dimmick parts of two demographics don't work.
14:13
Yeah, exactly about. Yeah, right.
14:14
Life transitions. Yeah, yeah, life Transitions.
14:17
And let's even, you know, back up a little bit more on that and
14:20
say You know, so you do sober, companion jobs, you do you work
14:25
with clients or struggling with eating disorders mental health
14:28
case, management and interventions.
14:31
So can you just tell us a little bit about like for instance so
14:33
the audience knows what is a Silver Transport or companion
14:36
job? Yeah, definitely.
14:37
I can, I can give the the overview like I think when we
14:40
started, I really thought that we were going to be serving.
14:43
Just this like 18 to 22 because that's where I was when I got
14:45
sober. So it's just going to be, you
14:47
know, kids kind of entering college or might have failed out
14:50
of college. And we were going to start on a
14:51
coaching side and our coaches meet with are the people that we
14:55
serve anywhere from like five to 20 hours a week and that's, you
14:58
know, kind of across the Spectrum.
15:01
So, any of our sober coaches are eating disorder, coaches, or our
15:04
mental health coaches, what we do is, we've got a 12-week
15:07
curriculum that we're getting them started with, and that's
15:10
really. We have a very extensive
15:12
matchmaking process. So, anyone who's onboarding with
15:14
us as a client goes through a little mock mini assessment, and
15:19
we're figuring out different. Like hobby skills, interests
15:21
ranks. We're looking at their past
15:23
attempts at recovery like what they're doing today.
15:26
What is their lifestyle look? Like, they're getting a
15:27
lifestyle assessment in that as well.
15:29
And then we're matching them up with the coach that's going to
15:31
be the best fit for them and so you're getting someone who is
15:33
tailor-made to you. That has the same.
15:35
Hobbies has the same interest as the same like path to recovery
15:38
that you're going like striving for.
15:40
So if you want to do 12-step, you're getting matched up with
15:43
someone who does 12-step. If you want to do you know,
15:45
faith, based recovery, you're getting matched with a phase
15:47
space recovery. Coach and so, and you Got
15:50
coaches, all over the country, all over the country.
15:52
Yeah, so our biggest chapters are in Atlanta, Raleigh,
15:56
Charleston, Nashville, New York City, Miami and La.
16:01
It's where we have the, the widest roster of coaches.
16:03
And so, all of our, you know, that kind of bleeds into our
16:06
companion side as well, Companions and coaches have the
16:09
exact same job. The only difference is time so
16:12
companions live with their clients.
16:13
That's 24/7. I'll say on average our coaching
16:17
clients, you know, those people meeting part-time stay with us,
16:20
About 13 months. So we get them for a very long
16:23
period of time. So, uh, yeah, a really unique
16:27
way to do that and our companion are live in, on average, I think
16:31
is 75 days. So someone who's leaving
16:34
treatment leaving a detox facility, that might not have
16:36
the capabilities to go to a long-term Treatment Center like
16:39
that there are going to, you know, use a companion to kind of
16:43
come into the house, set them up.
16:44
Make sure that they're making it to all their appointments.
16:46
You know. That the, if they have some
16:48
complex kind of psychiatric or psychological, Cool needs that.
16:51
They are bringing that into the house as well.
16:52
And we can facilitate all that through our case management
16:54
side. So, and so, who's a good
16:57
candidate for the companion job? Yeah, I think it's across the
17:01
Spectrum. You know what we talked about
17:02
sometimes is the younger side like someone who is in college
17:05
that might have had you know, taking the summer off to go get
17:08
well and they've gone to treatment over the summer.
17:10
Or they might have had a medical withdrawal in the past semester
17:13
and they're determined. Just like I was to return to the
17:15
college Charleston, or to go to the College of Charleston.
17:17
They're determined to go back to that University, even though
17:19
their parents, Well, you kind of hit a lot of roadblocks when you
17:24
are going to school. They're like, why don't we think
17:25
about somewhere new and, and talking to a young person like
17:27
that? Like, my big thing is, like,
17:29
let's use their strength. They want to go back to college,
17:31
like let's just make sure that they have the support structure
17:33
around them to do so. And so that's a great candidate.
17:36
Another great candidate is that kind of executive.
17:39
So someone who necessarily does need this accountability,
17:44
someone who might be traveling, a lot for work or someone who
17:46
kind of might not have accountability in the household.
17:49
Someone who Has need that kind of supportive structure that
17:52
coach to sit with them and say like we can get through the day.
17:54
This is what we're going to do. This is how we're building your
17:56
schedule. This is what we're going to do
17:57
tonight, to make sure that we're following through on this
17:59
recovery side of things. And I'm going to make sure that
18:01
you're safe in your own house. What about, for people who are
18:05
say, I've got a wedding this weekend.
18:08
I've been out of treatment for, you know, two weeks I'm doing.
18:10
Alright, but I'm going to this wedding, you know, my best
18:12
friend from college is getting married.
18:13
Yeah. What do you do a companion?
18:15
Just for that the weekend or is another see.
18:17
Okay yeah 100%. So we do short-term stays and
18:19
long-term. So most of the time, it's just
18:23
like that for the short-term side of things, like I've got a
18:25
family vacation or I've got, you know, this thing that I can't
18:27
miss. I'm a little nervous about it.
18:30
A big one for us is actually Christmas Christmas day, is
18:33
people who are like going around their family for the first time
18:35
after treatment and they're a little bit nervous about it and
18:38
they just want that back up and support.
18:39
Yeah. And how do you find the people
18:42
who are the companions? Who are the coaches in
18:44
specially? What in cities where you're not
18:46
necessarily like in that area? Or yeah, that's a motor with
18:49
recruitments a huge. I love what I do and finding
18:52
those profiles is something that is pretty unique because you
18:54
think about like someone who's essentially going to be living
18:56
with someone. Like they got to be likeable,
18:59
they've got to be really good at their job because this is
19:01
important a line of work and they've got to have like
19:05
intuition and determination. And so a lot of those things are
19:08
things that I can't train. And so I travel all the time, I
19:11
meet people wherever I can, I meet people in recovery
19:13
initiatives, I go to meetings all over different types of
19:16
meeting. Styles of meetings, I get
19:17
introduced by other people that are interested in this line of
19:20
work. We've got, you know, a five step
19:22
interview process with references and then personally
19:25
personality tests and assessments that we do with
19:27
them. And so it just gets further and
19:29
further and along and I find that that weed out the people
19:32
who probably won't be a good fit for something like this because
19:35
if you can't make it through this five-stage interview
19:36
process, you're probably not going to make it through 90
19:38
days, living with someone else and so I think that that's a big
19:42
thing. Another thing on the
19:44
companionship line that we do really.
19:46
Well, is that we check in on them.
19:48
I think that a lot of agencies are like, here's your Job.
19:50
Here's your location you know meet them there.
19:53
I called them three times a day. I'm like, what are you doing?
19:55
How are you doing? Like, what's going on?
19:58
So they're never on an island out there.
20:00
It's a big thing. They're always supported from
20:01
the home office. What are their what are like a
20:03
couple things they had absolutely have to have any do
20:06
they have to be sober? Then long-term recovery is
20:10
number one so we do a lot of work on the mental health side
20:13
as well. And so anytime we are working
20:15
with a complex mental health case, they have to have some
20:17
type of clinical licensure. I've got other that's kaduk
20:19
whether that's SW whether that's, you know, LPC LPC a.
20:25
So they have to have that side of it for the mental health, for
20:28
the like substance use long-term recovery.
20:31
So have to have more than five years to work as a sober coach
20:34
with us, which is a good thing for us because I think that that
20:38
five-year Mark is is pretty. You just look at statistics at
20:41
long-term recovery and like after five years your odds of
20:44
like lifelong recovery. Go up by 85%.
20:46
So yeah, that's one actually. Yeah exponentially.
20:49
Yeah. I mean man, the companion job is
20:52
a wild one. Yeah, it really is.
20:54
It is going and living with with folks, for, you know, month.
20:58
Two months at a time, nine months.
20:59
Yeah, nine months. Yeah that means how you've done
21:01
a nine-month job. We've had them.
21:03
And if you personally what's the longest longest one that I've
21:07
done is three months, three months, and that's with leave
21:11
all of our contracts. We like right into it that like
21:14
our companions work, three weeks on four days off.
21:17
So and we like ship them all over the country.
21:20
Wherever I want to go like, what resort you want to be had for
21:22
four days later. Yeah.
21:23
Yeah, it's back. Yeah.
21:24
Go check in on yourself. Yeah.
21:27
So, what about? So you are in a rise
21:29
interventionist as well, right? So what would you say?
21:32
Would you say that you're doing your company and business now is
21:35
comprised, you know, you're doing more interventions more
21:38
companion jobs, or I would say that mostly companion jobs and
21:43
then coaching and then interventions interventions.
21:46
Really? We are entire office.
21:49
Got to And in that so that we could kind of, I guess more, so
21:54
use that out of need and it's a great way for us to cooperate
21:57
and collaborate with treatment centers to.
22:00
So I think that that was really the purpose of that was so that
22:04
we could kind of be more of a tool in the landscape of these
22:06
non Clinical Services. That would you say we here at
22:10
new Waters and then in our personal lives we all talk to
22:13
people who the families are calling me as an employee here.
22:18
B is somebody in recovery and True for everybody here.
22:21
And then they're just not willing to really go that next
22:24
step and go to the intervention, right?
22:26
They think they can just sort of Cobble together something and
22:30
what would you say to families who are sort of like they know
22:32
about them? They probably from what they've
22:33
seen on TV. Oh, and yeah, exactly.
22:36
So wait, what do you say to them about?
22:38
Like you know, the value add yeah, don't trust what you see
22:41
on TV, I think that that's what we know these days, right.
22:44
So I think a big thing about like interventions today is that
22:49
historically and You saw on TV was this like surprise Factor
22:52
like let's trick your loved one into coming to a place where
22:55
they're not going to be comfortable where they're going
22:57
to have their guard up and wear their, you're going to sit down
22:59
and read them some letters. That's not how like 85% of them
23:03
are done today. There are still some people who
23:04
do it that way, but it's not the majority of it.
23:07
Now, there are some circumstances where maybe that's
23:09
your only option if your only option.
23:11
Yeah. When you do have to pull that
23:12
card, it's, you know, probably not the best.
23:14
The First Choice run out the First Choice, you know, and
23:17
you're in a rise intervention intervention, as so you can you
23:19
talk a little bit? About what that means to.
23:21
Yeah. So the arise model is
23:23
Invitational intervention and so that's looking more.
23:25
So at the family system as a whole instead of the individual
23:28
as the problem, which I think as a person in recovery like I can
23:31
really identify with that because I mean my family held an
23:34
intervention on me. I'm in a like therapy session
23:37
with, you know, my father, who is intoxicated like and I'm
23:41
thinking that this is family intervention.
23:42
I'm like so excited to walk into this meeting and tell him like
23:45
how bad he is and all this kind of stuff and 10 minutes into it.
23:48
He's like you're missing the elephant in the room and I'm
23:50
like, Well, what's that dad and like, knock, knock knock and
23:52
like, my mama, my grandparents, like my cousin's, like all walk
23:56
into this therapist office and I was like, you tricked me like,
23:58
you know, and I didn't listen to a thing that they said and so I
24:03
think anytime someone can make a deliberate choice in themselves
24:07
to say, like I want to go to treatment that your odds of
24:11
getting them to treatment a increase.
24:13
Like you're not going to have this person who's just like
24:14
saying, yes, so that they can then run away as soon as you let
24:17
him out of the room, but be you're setting them up.
24:20
For success in the long run and then, as an as an
24:23
interventionist, like working to make sure that the family
24:26
doesn't stop working, when the loved one gets into treatment.
24:28
That's the biggest value at because holding these families
24:31
accountable and like, putting them in their own, like style of
24:35
family treatment, and getting them plugged in with resources
24:38
as well. Like, we know that when families
24:40
are working on themselves and working through the systems
24:42
issues that they have as a, you know, this is a family disease
24:46
that as they work on themselves, the odds of successful recovery
24:49
for the one that they've been worried about.
24:50
For so long increase as well. So yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
24:55
And so tell me a little bit like kind of just fast-tracking into
24:58
your life. Now you know that's your
25:00
business and obviously how you you know and listen to I can
25:03
relate to this as well and I'm sure that you got into this
25:05
field because you know like myself it was after getting
25:09
sober and going through treatment it was like gosh if I
25:12
can do what you know those guys did for me and make a career out
25:15
of it, what an amazing way to make a living, right?
25:17
And helping people. And you know, ultimately saving
25:20
helping people save their lives. So what are you doing now?
25:24
For your recovery. Three and, and your life.
25:26
And what is life? Like, now for you, it's a dream.
25:31
I think that like, you know, I was, I was lucky enough to
25:33
celebrate 10 years earlier this year and like, never thought a
25:37
that that was possible and like, be I think that my recovery has
25:42
shifted so much since the pandemic that like, I really
25:44
didn't know what it was going to look like these days.
25:46
And so when you took meetings away from me, which was like a
25:48
huge aspect of that, social recovery that I like grew to
25:52
love and what I found out. Like need, I had to create new
25:57
ways to do that when we all went on lockdown.
25:59
And so I find that today, like the biggest thing that I do to
26:03
support my like recovery is a wellness.
26:06
Like that was something that I did not incorporate in my first
26:08
five years. And so I think that like just in
26:11
and of itself, like I make sure that I'm following a structure
26:13
and following a routine. I like, watch what I like, you
26:16
know, ingest and and I try to stay on the healthier side of
26:19
things and be it staying in touch with the people that I'm
26:21
close with, like, it's the connections that I have not only
26:24
in recovery, But in family and friends, and all of that, and
26:29
then it's making sure that I'm still like, suiting up and
26:31
showing up to the place and to my 12-step meetings, and like,
26:34
raising my hand, when people say that they need help and like
26:36
saying, like this is what I'm here to do.
26:38
So this is how I did it if you'd like to do it this way, we can
26:41
go to work. Yeah, I got away.
26:43
Yeah. And I think that it's, that
26:45
ain't what I kind of heard there was like balance, right?
26:48
And finding the balance. And that's that's been a
26:51
constant struggle for me and recovery.
26:53
And you know, obviously Lee, you know, starting a business is
26:56
tough. You know, where we've been open
26:58
for 6 months here? A little over six months now,
27:00
here know what new Waters and you know finding that balance
27:03
can be really, really tough sometimes.
27:05
And, you know so what are those some of those tools that you
27:08
have to really kind of get yourself back on track when you
27:10
kind of find yourself going off? I would say that my biggest tool
27:13
is my calendar today. Like that's my biggest thing,
27:16
because I put things on my calendar that I want to do
27:18
things that I have to do and things that like, I probably
27:20
need to do, you know, like my therapy appointments, go on
27:23
there and I know that I can't book anything around.
27:25
Like the gym goes on there. I know that I can't book
27:26
anything around that, and then inevitably like, it is just like
27:30
holding myself accountable to the own goals that I'm setting
27:33
for myself. And so sometimes that goal is,
27:36
you know, like make it to for meetings this week because you
27:39
were only able to make it to one last week.
27:41
Sometimes it's, you know, we're going to spend this much time
27:44
with like family. We're going to spend this much
27:46
time with friends, like and I think that at the end of my
27:49
week, I always like, kind of, I have two calendars.
27:52
I have one for what I set out to do and one for what I actually
27:55
did. So, like I measure like the
27:56
difference is and I think the balance like comes out in that
28:00
because when I find that, you know, oh wait.
28:03
I took work calls from 6 to 10 one night, when I was like
28:06
supposed to, like, go to the gym and go have dinner with my
28:09
friends. Like there's something there and
28:11
inevitably work wins, I'll tell you that work, always fence as a
28:15
business owner, like, it's impossible for it.
28:17
Not to and the phone's ringing seven days a week.
28:19
Seven days a week. 24 hours a day, 24 hours a day.
28:22
Yeah. And we pick it up and people are
28:24
always amazed, Is when you know or like on Saturday night and
28:27
we're on a phone, call of the family 9:30.
28:30
Look I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry to keep you and
28:31
it's like this is like literally I'm doing this on a daily basis.
28:34
Yeah and what's so crazy is that it's their worst day and it's
28:38
like it's our every day you know like and it what we do makes me
28:41
happy. Yeah well someone even if it is
28:44
is my job are still love, doing it.
28:45
Yeah. Devil of what you said about the
28:46
counter. I just recently realized I just
28:49
wasn't, you know, even the nice I had kind of scheduled to go to
28:52
meetings the way are you know, schedules work.
28:54
Because I just wasn't going to as many.
28:56
So every Tuesday, like, I'm still going to go to some at
28:58
night, but I have one that I just, and I have, since I put it
29:01
on my calendar. I've been every time.
29:02
Yeah. And not just have to do it right
29:04
now, and if it's there, then I will respect the calendar.
29:07
And now that first week I remember thinking, like, wow,
29:10
this guy's coming in, but someone else could handle it.
29:12
So I just went if nothing else to set the precedent that I'm
29:15
going to do this for my scene. Yeah.
29:18
And then I just listened to a podcast other day.
29:20
I ran into a guy. I know from the 12-step rooms at
29:23
the gym who told me I should listen to this podcast about
29:26
burnout and it was and it was a similar conversation about the
29:30
the calendar being a tool. And it's interesting to hear
29:33
that and you know, we're talking about recovery and spirituality
29:35
and it's like, my Outlook calendar is my most valuable
29:38
tool. But I hear you right, we talked
29:40
about like this pandemic of substance use and like, that's
29:42
why, you know, of course, we're seeing the numbers increase of
29:45
treatment admissions. But I think that there's a
29:47
pandemic inside of the providers that and that's burn out like
29:50
yes. I mean, how many times like the
29:52
turnover of like, and all that stuff?
29:54
It's Exactly, right? So, it's hard Bannon and you
29:58
know, medical providers would clinicians, especially, and, you
30:02
know, we actually next month or doing an episode on this
30:05
podcast, figure it out. So, everybody tune in next month
30:09
for Burnout us dr. Nice nice.
30:11
Little burnout. Nice block.
30:13
Nice block. Yeah, so no.
30:17
So I totally agree with that. And that's like a constant
30:19
battle for me, man. And for me, it's so much of it
30:22
and you kind of you added, or touched on it with like the
30:24
Eating the working out like the holistic stuff that we're doing,
30:28
whether it's like meditation or journaling sleep.
30:31
Sleep is the biggest, right? Yes, a cold plunge called 5.
30:35
Yes, cold, hot cold therapy. You know, biohacking all that
30:39
stuff is is great and and when I'm not doing it, you know I
30:42
just there's a total difference in my day, you know?
30:46
So I you know wish our I try to do that every day in my in my
30:51
world but it's just it's tough sometimes you know.
30:54
Yeah of Course. What's your meditation practice?
30:58
My meditation practice is five minutes every morning with a cup
31:01
of coffee. So I sit there, I do quiet for
31:04
five minutes and then I read, I've got the 24-hour book that I
31:07
read every day. Yeah, maybe reading that for 10
31:09
years, 10 years still have my 24 hours a day.
31:11
Fuck that I got treatment. Yeah, yeah, my father mailed me
31:14
one, my grand father, mailed me one.
31:16
The second time I went to treatment, my grandfather was in
31:19
recovery as well. Yeah.
31:21
So we would all three go to meetings together which is
31:22
pretty soon. Whoo, yeah, never.
31:24
I've seen a few father-son mother-daughter they never never
31:28
three generation, three generations.
31:30
Yeah, that's really cool. It would be interesting to do
31:32
your genogram to Tennessee. Kind of like the patterns as
31:36
they as they break down and then and then your future
31:39
Generations. Now after you guys have all
31:41
hopefully broken the cycle to some extent.
31:43
Yeah, I think I did one a couple years ago and was looking at my
31:46
family and every like Waters in the family tree was actively in
31:51
recovery and so yeah. Male like Only the men like not
31:55
on the women's side. Like it's just like the men and
31:59
I had a cousin who was in recovery Uncle?
32:02
Who's in recovery? Like, you know, my baby cousin
32:05
called me like three months ago. I was like I think I might have
32:07
a problem and I was like yeah but look at your family tree you
32:09
know. Like yeah you know what?
32:11
Yeah it was coming. We knew when your SEC yeah so
32:15
well Isaac thank you so much for joining us today.
32:17
It's been such a pleasure getting to know you a little bit
32:19
better or hearing about your work.
32:20
Obviously you're doing incredible work and you know
32:23
looking forward to collaborating.
32:24
Writing with you, on clients down the road but as well.
32:29
We will have all of Isaac's information on our website,
32:32
finding new Waters.com as well. This will be broadcast on all
32:36
podcast platforms. So please come and check us out
32:39
for next week's episode as well. And thank you for being here.
32:42
Happy to be here. Thank you guys, thank you for
32:44
coming. Thank you guys.
32:45
Thank you Graham.