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Working With The Anger Behind Addiction with Scott Kiloby · The Trauma Therapist

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapists podcast. My name is Gamiferson.
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  Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
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  Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: show by four three two one our folks, Welcome back
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: to the podcast. Very excited to have as my guest today.
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  Speaker 1: Scott Killobby Scott, Welcome.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you.
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  Speaker 1: Scott is an international speaker, non duality teacher, entrepreneur, and
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  Speaker 1: author of seven books that make authentic spiritual awakening accessible
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  Speaker 1: and grounded. He co founded the Killobye Center for Recovery
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  Speaker 1: and the Natural Rest House, among the first US treatment
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  Speaker 1: centers to place mindfulness and nondual awareness at the core
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  Speaker 1: of trauma and addiction recovery. Scott is also the co
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  Speaker 1: founder of Killoby Inquiries along with Dan McClintock, including the
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  Speaker 1: Chi Emotional Repression Inquiry, a structured process for working directly
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  Speaker 1: with emotional repression, unmet needs, and frozen fear. His work
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  Speaker 1: sit at the intersection of awakening and healing, offering practical
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  Speaker 1: tools for recovery, emotional integration, and lasting freedom. All Right
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  Speaker 1: Scott obviously, just a little bit about you before we go,
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  Speaker 1: and share with our listeners where you're from originally and
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  Speaker 1: where you are currently. No, we'll dive in.
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  Speaker 2: I grew up in Indiana, the Midwest here in the States,
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  Speaker 2: and I moved away to go to college and then
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  Speaker 2: eventually ended up in on the West Coast.
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  Speaker 3: So I now live in well, currently in San Diego,
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  Speaker 3: but you'll see me kind of moving around from La
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  Speaker 3: San Diego Paul Springs.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, awesome, so really interesting bio. Let's dive in. How
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  Speaker 1: did this all start for you?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I was an attorney when it's all started, and
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  Speaker 3: I started to become a spiritual seeker, very devoted spiritual seeker.
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  Speaker 3: I spent about a year and a half in my
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  Speaker 3: own kind of living medication from practice, following teachers. Then
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  Speaker 3: I had a shift to the nondual presence happened.
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  Speaker 2: The shift to that, so that changed everything.
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  Speaker 3: When I recognized the ground of being, when I saw that,
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  Speaker 3: you know, I felt the presence that we are and
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  Speaker 3: I got so much relief from that, from so much
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  Speaker 3: suffering that I began to teach because I knew that
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  Speaker 3: something was happening and I could tell people. But what
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  Speaker 3: happened was on my spiritual path. I ignore it buried anger,
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  Speaker 3: and so I'm more known for as a teacher who
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  Speaker 3: is helping people to embody present, mown awareness to work
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  Speaker 3: at the body level because of the bypass in my life.
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  Speaker 2: So my bypass got pretty bad.
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  Speaker 3: I had two diseases and a sex addiction, which I
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  Speaker 3: think came from the anger repression. I know the sex
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  Speaker 3: addiction did, and I know the chronic pain did. I
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  Speaker 3: didn't have any way of connecting that the cancer that
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  Speaker 3: I got may have been influenced by that. So, more
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  Speaker 3: than anything in the spiritual community, I'm kind of a
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  Speaker 3: living example of what not to do. And what I'm
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  Speaker 3: teaching people to do is to is to do more
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  Speaker 3: more integration earlier on the path, to work with the
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  Speaker 3: stuff from childhood that's going to probably thwark them on
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  Speaker 3: a spiritual path.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so you were an attorney. What was going on
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  Speaker 1: such that you were like kind of the I don't
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  Speaker 1: want to say typical but almost stereotypical pendulum swing to
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  Speaker 1: the other side. What was going on?
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  Speaker 2: Suffering was going on?
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  Speaker 3: You know, I was a heavy addiction during it as
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  Speaker 3: an attorney, and I finally got sober as an attorney,
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  Speaker 3: and then I started to help other attorneys and judges
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  Speaker 3: with addictions. I was part of the program in my
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  Speaker 3: state that helped people like that. So I think that's
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  Speaker 3: where I got a taste of that I want to
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  Speaker 3: do something different, and I started to just go more
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  Speaker 3: and more towards helping people in that way, slowly away
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  Speaker 3: from practicing law and more and more towards helping people,
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  Speaker 3: until it was just that's all.
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  Speaker 1: I was doing.
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  Speaker 2: At the point your sound dropped out, I don't know
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  Speaker 2: if that's me, but suddenly your sound was dropping.
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  Speaker 1: No, that was me, that was me. Sorry about that. Suffering,
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  Speaker 1: suffering from.
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  Speaker 3: What addiction, anxiety, just a deep sense of something is wrong,
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  Speaker 3: something is missing that I had on my whole life.
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  Speaker 3: That's in trauma, a kid. So I think that played
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  Speaker 3: into it. Okay, yeah, just unusual human suffering. It wasn't
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  Speaker 3: like that I had at that point any serious disneeds
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  Speaker 3: or anything. I was just suffering, and I haven't been.
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  Speaker 1: For so at all. What obviously seldom is there one
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  Speaker 1: breaking point, but talk a little bit about when you
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  Speaker 1: decided or when you felt the need to shift. Something's
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  Speaker 1: got to change.
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  Speaker 3: I was searching already for answers because I was in
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  Speaker 3: the twelve step program, so I was already kind of
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  Speaker 3: a spiritual secret, and I was looking at different religions
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  Speaker 3: and spirituality and therapies.
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  Speaker 2: Just searching for the right answers.
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  Speaker 3: And I picked up some book called like Intro to Buddhism,
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  Speaker 3: and in that book I read a line that stopped me.
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  Speaker 2: It said, the absolute truth is what you are.
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  Speaker 3: And it just stopped me because I had always identified
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  Speaker 3: with something else. It was showing me that there was
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  Speaker 3: something deeper, and that's what I was looking for, some
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  Speaker 3: recognition that was deeper than what I had, and I
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  Speaker 3: was just drawn to that message.
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  Speaker 2: I was just a typical seecret, really spiritual secret, that's
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  Speaker 2: what it was.
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  Speaker 1: So you find this book, you're in twelve step. How
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  Speaker 1: do things unfold from there?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I was getting a lot of love and approval
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  Speaker 3: and small staff and now I understand that was my
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  Speaker 3: buried anger. That's often the producer of unmet needs. But
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  Speaker 3: I was not recovering, you know. I was seeking love
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  Speaker 3: and approval for being sober, but I wasn't getting to
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  Speaker 3: the root of the addiction. So that led me to
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  Speaker 3: other paths and practices. Because I wasn't relieving my suffering.
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  Speaker 3: I was getting a lot of approval, I was getting
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  Speaker 3: a lot of love, but I was still suffering. So
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  Speaker 3: I put my drugs and alcohol down. But I then
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  Speaker 3: picked up a porn addiction and these other addictions. So
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  Speaker 3: I knew that something I wasn't getting to the real
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  Speaker 3: route of things. And that's what I think set me
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  Speaker 3: on that mad search for the answers.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so how do you go about finding that? What
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  Speaker 1: was beneath that? What did you do specifying?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I started the practice of simple mindfulness.
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  Speaker 3: So as I was practicing law, you know, I'd be
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  Speaker 3: writing a legal brief and I would stop and just start.
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  Speaker 2: Allowing it all.
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  Speaker 3: I'd be walking down the hall towards the court, towards
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  Speaker 3: the courtroom, and I would just be mindful.
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  Speaker 2: I'd be in the courtroom practicing mindfulness.
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  Speaker 1: I was.
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  Speaker 2: My whole life was devoted to this.
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  Speaker 3: Recognizing present awareness and watching and allowing was super helpful
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  Speaker 3: and very very transformative.
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  Speaker 2: But at the same time, I was avoiding very anger.
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  Speaker 3: And that's the part that I want to share with you,
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  Speaker 3: because that's where what I do is different than some
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  Speaker 3: other teachers who don't talk about the bypass.
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  Speaker 1: You were avoiding the very buried anger.
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  Speaker 2: You said, Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: First of all, Scott, if I may, I just want
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  Speaker 1: to point out this really remarkable and inspiring self awareness.
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  Speaker 1: You had. You experiencing addiction in the form of alcoholism
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  Speaker 1: or alcohol addiction. You were in this twelve step you
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  Speaker 1: stopped that, you said, then you developed a porn addiction,
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  Speaker 1: and then you realize something was going on. Just that,
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  Speaker 1: in and of itself, I think takes a lot. So
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  Speaker 1: let's talk about this buried anger. How did you realize
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  Speaker 1: that what was going on with you?
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  Speaker 3: So I had an awakening shift in two thousand and seven.
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  Speaker 3: It was a very powerful shift. I mean I saw
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  Speaker 3: myself as everything like I don't know if you've ever
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  Speaker 3: read about non dual experiences, but I had the experience
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  Speaker 3: of complete one liess.
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  Speaker 2: So I lived in what.
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  Speaker 3: I would call joy and bliss and love for about
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  Speaker 3: two and a half years.
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  Speaker 2: I thought that there was no more suffering. And then
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  Speaker 2: at the end of the third year, this was at.
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  Speaker 3: Twenty ten eleven, I got diagnosed with cancer and that
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  Speaker 3: started a cascade of situations that were coming from the
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  Speaker 3: bury anger that I had missed. So it went from
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  Speaker 3: light love and bliss to cancer, sex, addiction, and then
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  Speaker 3: eventually suicidal ideation because I had developed chronic nerve pain
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  Speaker 3: and spinal stenosis, so I wasn't doing well after the shift.
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  Speaker 2: That's my story and if I'm sharing, like there's a.
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  Speaker 3: Lot of people who were teaching people to come and
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  Speaker 3: you know, nice towards awakening or awareness. But my message
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  Speaker 3: is be careful because your body has often buried emotions
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  Speaker 3: and if you bypassed that, you can be put in
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  Speaker 3: an almost worse situation or dealing with something later like
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  Speaker 3: I did.
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  Speaker 2: It's bigger than anything you know, diseases.
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  Speaker 3: So it's more like I'm here to help, like encourage
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  Speaker 3: people and moreten them.
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  Speaker 1: At the same time, if if I may ask about
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  Speaker 1: the cancer, how did you find out you would you
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  Speaker 1: had cancer?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I still don't know if the anger, repression, say,
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  Speaker 3: the contributing factors to that. I just read some science,
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  Speaker 3: but that just came as a diagnosis. I had testicular
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  Speaker 3: pain for a while and I kept telling my doctor
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  Speaker 3: about the pain. They kept kind of dismissing me, and
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  Speaker 3: I said, I think I needed to go to a specialist.
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  Speaker 3: I went to a specialist within five minutes. Of walking
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  Speaker 3: through the door. He said, you need to go into surgery.
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  Speaker 3: You have serious cancer. So luckily.
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  Speaker 2: Help me.
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  Speaker 1: So you go, you start to get treatment. When do
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  Speaker 1: you how do you move through that? What is that
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  Speaker 1: journey like? And at what point are you like I
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  Speaker 1: want to start helping people. Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: Well I was already helped people at that time.
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  Speaker 3: So I've been a teacher three years and then I
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  Speaker 3: got the cancer diagnosis. I mean I was able to
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  Speaker 3: work through the surface level suffering on that within a
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  Speaker 3: few days. I was actually at peace with the cancer
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  Speaker 3: diagnosis because the recognition brings a lot of peace. But
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  Speaker 3: what I was still doing was ignoring the burier and anger.
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  Speaker 3: So you know, I was working through stuff but still
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  Speaker 3: ignoring the route. So the cancer was I got through it,
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  Speaker 3: but at the same time, I did not deal with
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  Speaker 3: this underlying issue.
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  Speaker 2: So I got through it through Western medicine. They helped me.
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  Speaker 2: But O, frankly, you know, okay, I missed up.
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  Speaker 1: Well let's talk about this anger. How the heck did
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  Speaker 1: you work with this? Did you? How did you how
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  Speaker 1: did you realize wait, there's something else going on here
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  Speaker 1: in the anger?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah?
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  Speaker 3: Well I was, so I was in serious nerve pain,
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  Speaker 3: by the time twenty seventeen came, so chronic nerve pain
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  Speaker 3: that would be the kind of pain that I wanted
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  Speaker 3: to kill and self. Frankly, I really wanted to. It's
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  Speaker 3: incredibly painful. So one day I'm sitting in the pain
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  Speaker 3: and just feeling it, and I pull up my dad
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  Speaker 3: and my bullies and I say I'm not angry at them,
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  Speaker 3: and then I felt the pain contract, and I became
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  Speaker 3: very curious about that kind of inquiry where I say
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  Speaker 3: I'm not angry, in my.
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  Speaker 2: Body tells me otherwise the pain.
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  Speaker 3: So I started to explore the pain, and I found them,
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  Speaker 3: my body connections responsible for storing anger there and made
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  Speaker 3: them conscious. I discovered them, and then I've taught Now
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  Speaker 3: I'm teaching people to do it. It's a specific technique
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  Speaker 3: where you feel into some area of the body, and
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  Speaker 3: particular inquiry that we have brings up the conditioning that
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  Speaker 3: stores emotions. So I stumbled upon how to discover varied emotions.
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  Speaker 2: And that pain.
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  Speaker 1: Let me just remind everyone I'm speaking with Scott Killobby.
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  Speaker 1: He co founded the Killoby Center for Recovery and the
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  Speaker 1: Natural Rest House. All right, so Scott, let's kind of
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  Speaker 1: get specific here. Give me an example of someone maybe
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  Speaker 1: you might have worked with. Obviously not going to give names,
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  Speaker 1: but what does this look like?
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  Speaker 2: It depends on the clients. Everybody comes to me in
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  Speaker 2: a different place.
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  Speaker 3: Some people come at end of life because they're Parkinson's,
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  Speaker 3: their cancer has gotten to the place where the emotional
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  Speaker 3: repression is behind a lot of it, and they're dealing
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  Speaker 3: with a serious disease. So that's a different kind of client.
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  Speaker 3: But it just depends on who the client is and
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  Speaker 3: what they present. There are different motions that you can repress.
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  Speaker 3: If I meet with an anger repressor, I'm looking at
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  Speaker 3: someone who probably doesn't have boundaries in relationship, who is
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  Speaker 3: not authentic and can't connect with themselves and might be
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  Speaker 3: afraid of intimicity. So I see that when they come,
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  Speaker 3: they come with chronic pain. But I ask them about
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  Speaker 3: their relationships and I find a lack of boundaries and
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  Speaker 3: issues related to anger repression. And then I show them
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  Speaker 3: how it's connected their pain, their suffering, and their disease
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  Speaker 3: and their body with repression.
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  Speaker 2: I teach it to them.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, we've heard I think anecdotally, you know there's
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  Speaker 1: maybe an association between right pent up individuals, pent up
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  Speaker 1: emotions and cancer. What does the research say?
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  Speaker 3: So the research is really robust. So I encourage people
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  Speaker 3: to go to like chutch and pt or PERPLEXI perplexa
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  Speaker 3: some good research tool and just do some prompts.
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  Speaker 2: I encourage everyone to do this.
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  Speaker 3: Here's the prompts say, give me the research and the
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  Speaker 3: science that shows the link between varied emotions and different
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  Speaker 3: forms of suffering. And I would also like follow that
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  Speaker 3: up with check the research because a it tends to
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  Speaker 3: hallucinate on some citations, but you will find that they
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  Speaker 3: they'll get it right basically. And if you go to
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  Speaker 3: a search, you'll find the studies. There's a lot of them.
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  Speaker 3: There are studies now on how I mean. Doctor John
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  Speaker 3: Sarno started us with the understanding that a lot of
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  Speaker 3: chronic pain is very angry at hurt. So his research
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  Speaker 3: is out there, and then after he died, there's a
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  Speaker 3: slew of studies that confirmed that. So he's a really
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  Speaker 3: big player in this, doctor Sarno. There's also just a
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  Speaker 3: lot of studies on how repression creates relationship issues, addiction.
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  Speaker 3: It's behind a lot of depression and anxiety. So the
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  Speaker 3: studies are there, people just don't know about them. Maybe
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  Speaker 3: because it's not a topic that we're talking about a
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  Speaker 3: lot yet.
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  Speaker 1: So a couple of definitions here, repression versus oppression correctly
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  Speaker 1: from a wrong repression is the unconscious, yes kind of
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  Speaker 1: what of avoidance of emotions?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, think about it when you're a kid.
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  Speaker 3: It's like, if dad is angry and you're a kid
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  Speaker 3: who is an angry repressor, you'll you'll repress that without
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  Speaker 3: even knowing that you have it, So it happens outside
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  Speaker 3: of your conscious awareness.
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  Speaker 2: But let's say that you are able to feel.
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  Speaker 3: Sadness, but you can feel it, but you can't express it,
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  Speaker 3: so you push it down also to get your needs met.
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  Speaker 2: So repression, just like you said, is unconscious.
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  Speaker 3: We often don't know that we have repressed emotions, let
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  Speaker 3: suppressed emotions, or we're more aware of them because we
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  Speaker 3: feel that anger and push it down.
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  Speaker 1: And would you say that is more typical for men
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  Speaker 1: versus women? It was hard suppression? Well, I guess, let's
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  Speaker 1: say repression or suppression.
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  Speaker 2: It's pretty equal with men better.
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  Speaker 3: But you're playing onto something which is like culturally, many cultures,
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  Speaker 3: you know, condition men to not show vulnerable emotions. That
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  Speaker 3: is definitely some can see. But I also see a
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  Speaker 3: lot of men who can't express anger. So even that
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  Speaker 3: is the men have.
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  Speaker 2: Both and women have both.
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  Speaker 3: But culturally, you know what I mean, we tend to
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  Speaker 3: want our boys to be boys and not to show
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  Speaker 3: sort of.
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  Speaker 1: Emotions, right right, all right, I want to go back.
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  Speaker 1: So someone comes to you if you can pluck out
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  Speaker 1: a case example with the understanding everyone's different. Well, let's
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  Speaker 1: say someone who who you worked with who was or
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  Speaker 1: was suffering. How do you determine what's going on? Yeap?
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  Speaker 3: So we have a test. It's at repression test dot
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  Speaker 3: com and it's free. So this test is a somatic test,
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  Speaker 3: and I'll just take your viewers through a little bit
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  Speaker 3: of it right now.
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  Speaker 4: But if you pull people up close to you, like
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  Speaker 4: your parents and your loved ones, and you feel into
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  Speaker 4: your body fully and you say I'm not angry, you
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  Speaker 4: might feel a response in the body which where the
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  Speaker 4: anger is held.
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  Speaker 3: It doesn't even feel like anger. It might feel like
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  Speaker 3: a contraction that's holding the anger. So you find it
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  Speaker 3: there through that test. And then I'll have people say
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  Speaker 3: I'm not hurt, and then they might find some repression there.
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  Speaker 3: I'll take them through the test and I'll say say this,
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  Speaker 3: I can express the anger to Dad and then they
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  Speaker 3: feel a block there. So they're discovering feeder tests that
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  Speaker 3: they have fear in the body around that emotion. And
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  Speaker 3: that's the starting point because then they know which emotion
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  Speaker 3: that they repress the most. When they come and do
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  Speaker 3: the work, we focus on the one that they repress
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  Speaker 3: the most, and then we teach them how to work
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  Speaker 3: with the other ones that might be repressors suppressed. So
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  Speaker 3: we start them off basically dealing with the very of
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  Speaker 3: winnings that drop them there, so an anger recrusters and
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  Speaker 3: winning anger their whole life. We get them started on
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  Speaker 3: anger repression inquiry because that's their strongest fear of emotion.
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  Speaker 2: If somebody's a hurt repression, we get them working on that.
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  Speaker 1: So is someone coming to you because they're suffering, they
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  Speaker 1: have an addiction, maybe they're they're ill, or are they
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  Speaker 1: coming to you because they feel like they're repressing something.
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  Speaker 3: Mostly it's spiritual seekers who are already on a path,
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  Speaker 3: or its people who have illnesses or chrong pain and
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  Speaker 3: the medical profession failed them if it had an emotional route,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: or it's somebody who might have become Usually there's some
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: element of suffering. People who are doing well, it's not
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: come to me. So it's more than just knowing they
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: repress emotions. Usually there's something at the surface that they're
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: dealing with, anxiety, pain, something.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: And what does your program look like? You just talked
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: about an assessment and how you work with them, But
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: in addition to that, what else you.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: As a it's a linear path, so we take people
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: through an actional path where we first teach them the skills.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: These are special skills they have to learn and be
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: able to do the skills. Then we mentor them. We
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: stay connected with them even on an ongoing basis, like
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: a coach or a mentor. Unlike arapists, it's more mentorship,
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: so we teach them how to apply those tools that
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: they've learned to the different forms of suffering that come
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: from repression. That's the second phase of the path, is
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: an extended practice period, and there's a third phase where
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: they begin to take their newfound freedom or work in relationship.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: In other words, the third phase is about expressing what's
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: true to the people that you love, having boundaries, being
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: emotionally honest, connecting with yourself. So it's all relational work
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: in the third phase, and all the work leads to
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: basically relational work, emotional work with people in actual relationships.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Sounds simple, It's not easy.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: No, it's not. That's why I put it at the end.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: It's because we have to work towards that capacity and
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: skill to do that with people.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: What was that like for you doing that? Cool?
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Well, So here's why all started. With my anchor repression.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: I got into it. I happened to be gay. I
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: got into a relationship with a man who was a
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: hurt repressor, so he would get angry.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: At me, and I had a pressure a hurt and
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: sadness repressor. Okay, yeah, so he could.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: He would get angry because hurt and sadness repressors they
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: find anger to be safer at the surface.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I did not find anger to be safe.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: So when he would get angry at me, I would
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: shut down and I would do things that I did
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: not see myself doing.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: On my spiritual path, I had.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Stayed away from people who were angry because of my
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: angry repression. I have built relationships in which no one
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: would get angry at me. I got into relationship with
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: someone who was angry at me. I had to find
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: me deal with my shadow.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: That was my shadow. In other words, I drew.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Him into relationship because of my trauma, my anger, repression,
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: and then I had issues with his anger because I
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: had repression. I needed to come out of repression and
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: have boundaries and connect with him, and I couldn't do
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: that with anger.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Christian the twelve step format, what are your thoughts on that?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Did it help you?
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Are you a twelve step? Are you a twelve step?
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: I don't have to say that, but I mean, I
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: don't want to send you, but I'll.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Tell you this.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: If you asked me if I was in twelve step,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: tell me I'm not. I'm not. I have not been
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: in twelve step. It is curious.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: I think it's great for connection to meet other people
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: who suffering, but it doesn't pay attention much to the
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: trauma and trauma's driving us. And I think that if
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: we're not careful like I did, you'll get in there
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: and seek love and approval by staying sober and helping
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: people and ignoring. What I did was ignore the route.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: So I'm not a big fan of the twelve step,
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: except for it's helping people get sober, and some people
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: stay sober and we need to heal. That's what I'm saying,
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: is we need to heal, and I don't know the
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: twelve step is actually, honestly your tours embodied feeling in
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: real connection with yourself and others.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: I did not find it there.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: You've talked about and we've mentioned the term nonduality. Define
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: that for our listeners.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: It's experiential knowing or seeing beyond separation.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: So you could say it starts with a recognition of
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: awareness as the ground, just an experience of awareness as
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: what you are rather than the stories. So when you
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: have a nonatal realization, a lot of the identifications go away,
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: the thinking, the anxiety, the depression, because you're recognizing what
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: you really are. Here's how I like talk about it.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: When we were kids, if our parents would have been conscious,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: if they would not have repressed emotions and trauma, they
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: probably would have taught us and helped us become conscious,
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: which means we wouldn't have had to bear emotions, but
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: we did have to bury emotions because they were unconscious.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: So the non duel to me, the nonageobilization is recognizing
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: something that we already have, an awareness that's already here,
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: and we also already have all of our emotions. So
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: if we recognize the presence our awaveness as the ground
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: of what we are, we can allow all emotions in
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: that and discover our authentic self, our authentic being. That's
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: what nonduality is for me. It's recognizing that you're not
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: the ego strategies.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: That's not what we are. Those who arise because of
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: the trauma.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: When you know, we we had this conversation and in
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: my mind there comes up this this definite duality between
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: like western medicine and you know, non western medicine. And
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: you know, my personal thoughts are I would never throw
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: out western medicine, right, There's there's worth in that as well.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: When people come to you how they like, try that
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: and it hasn't worked and they're desperate for something else,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: or what.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: I take the approach of integration, So I would say,
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: keep working with your doctor, find a good one, a
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: holistic practitioner, find a therapist who's more informed about trauma,
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: and let us all work together. That's what I think
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: is the best approach. Because you know, with my cancer,
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: I still needed surgery. I couldn't just do somatic work.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: I had to have Western medicine help me, So I
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: think it's an important role in our lives. But if
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: we will team up and have doctors and therapists and
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: others who are working with someone communicate, I think we're
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: going to treat the person more holistically. So rather than
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: being against Western medicine, I'm for transformation to that area
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: where in Western medicine they become more aware of how
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: the emotional system is driving some diseases, and that would
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: make them connect with us more because we see that.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: But what I see right now is a lot of
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: doctors who they don't really understand the mind body connection.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: They think the body is just producing a lot of
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: diseases by itself without mind and body, and therefore they're
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: treating people in a way that doesn't necessarily get to
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: the root. But that doesn't mean they can't change and
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: the doctor right, it can be regional right area.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: This seems you know what you're talking about, The way
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: you're working with people. Approach just feels it's like it's
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: what our culture needs right now. I think we're seeped
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: and soaked in a culture of toxicity in a sense,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: it's everywhere. Have you noticed an onslaught of clients or
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: what compliance an onslaught of clients of people coming to
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: you or have there been Are you noticing themes that
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: with which people are are to you, the types of
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: people coming to you?
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I do notice A certain theme is the weary
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: spiritual seeker who has avoided barrier emotions for a long
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: time and still suffers and doesn't have the answer.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: They just they're missing the tools they need. So I
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: see a lot of them.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: And I also see a lot of people with diseases
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: and chronic pain who just couldn't get the answers because
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: they you know, those are serious things and if you
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: can't get the answer somewhere, that drives people to find answers.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: They come to me a lot.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: When you're working with someone like that. In that latter category,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: is how are you measuring quote unquote success? So someone
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: comes to you with an illness? Is success them getting
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: better and improvement in their what sickness? What?
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: For us? It's bigger than that, because it truly is holistic.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: Yes, we would think the symptoms would decrease, yes, but
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: there would be changes in relationship. In other words, if
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: somebody is repressing anger and therefore there's pain because of that.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: When they work with that very anger, their relationships are
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: going to change. They're going to find themselves more connected
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: with themselves, able to be more emotionally honest with people.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: So we want to look at those markers too, all
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: the transfer in your life and not just better.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Right, But you're saying that those markers are going to
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: come as a result of you working with them. But
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: my assumption would be the hope that the cancer gets
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: better or the suffering improves. It does.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: In fact, I don't have any pain, so I went
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: from serious critic of pain. A lot of people are
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: experiencing diminishing or pain leaving.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: That's definitely one thing.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: But what I'm saying is that doesn't happen without correlated
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: changing relationships.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, That makes perfect sense, All right, Scott,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: How do people learn more about what you're doing? And
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: before you answer that question, who comes to you? Who
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: are you working with.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: People? Again?
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: The weary spiritual seeker of someone who's been on the
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: path for a while and has been bypassing or missing something.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: They come to me.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: Plus again, anyone who isn't getting answers from Western medicine
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: or therapy, maybe because they're not focusing on varied emotions
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: or yeah, people who are anxious depressed. Anyone who can't
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: find answers tests to come to me. If they found
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: an answer with a medication or some therapy, they might
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: not come to me yet, okay because they get the
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: yeah okay, And.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: How do people learn more about you? What's the best way?
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: So my site is chilliby dot com.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: Ok I l obuy dot com and that's just to
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: check out all my programs. But if you want to
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: get started, go to repression tests dot com. Repression test
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: dot com. That's a free test, and I'm giving the
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: modality way for free. You can go and do it
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: for free, but often people need a teacher or a mentor.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: So if doing it for free on your own is
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: not working, then you can come and work with me.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: You could let me give you an email address anyone
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: who might want to work with me. Actually, no, I'll
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: give you my WhatsApp number. You can just contact me.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: It's one eight one two two zero four four three
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: two four okay, And I mean I will kind of
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: help people get it somewhere they need to go. And
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: then one other thing is I have a YouTube and
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: there are different membership levels, so somebody can just come
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: and join a membership level and let me teach it
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: to you there on YouTube. That's another way to do it.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, And we'll have each of those linked up here
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: at the show notes page at the Trauma Therapist podcast
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: dot com. Scott, appreciate you. Appreciate you coming on here
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: and sharing your story. Super inspiring.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Appreciate you very much. Thank you.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: All right, we'll be in touch. Take care, all right.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I am of the thing off as the retament