Latest / Women Disrupting Tech / How a Female Founder Is Fixing Solar Energy's Hidden Waste Problem with Andjela Bozinac | Ep. 154

Transcript

How a Female Founder Is Fixing Solar Energy's Hidden Waste Problem with Andjela Bozinac | Ep. 154 · Women Disrupting Tech

• 0:00
  We're building a clean energy solution that is quietly
• 0:03
  creating a base problem we don't know how to handle yet.
• 0:07
  And that become critical for a few reasons.
• 0:12
  Example, environmentally, if we don't solve this, we're just
• 0:17
  shifting the problem. We reduce the emissions, but we
• 0:20
  increase the waste. And economically solar panel are
• 0:23
  not just the waste. So they contain valuable
• 0:26
  materials like aluminium, silicon.
• 0:29
  So today a big part of value is simply lost.
• 0:33
  And the last one may be most more important is about
• 0:37
  scalability. If we want solar to truly be a
• 0:41
  sustainable technology, I think that circularity can be
• 0:45
  optional. It has to be part of the
• 0:47
  infrastructure. Hey, welcome back to women this
• 1:06
  routine tech and thank you for tuning in to episode 154.
• 1:11
  I'm your host, dear Kanupkus, and this is the podcast that
• 1:14
  closes to funding gap in venture capital by amplifying the
• 1:17
  stories of female founders and their investors.
• 1:21
  For years, we've scaled solar energy as quickly as possible.
• 1:25
  Millions of panels were installed to reduce our carbon
• 1:29
  footprint. But as you'll find out in
• 1:32
  today's episode, when these solar panels reach the end of
• 1:35
  their lives, we do not have a clean way to recycle or upcycle
• 1:39
  them. Instead, many recycling methods
• 1:43
  either destroy material value or rely on harmful chemicals.
• 1:48
  Fortunately, today's guest is trying to change that.
• 1:52
  Angela Boginak is the Co founder and CEO of Lenovo Recycling.
• 1:57
  Using robotics and physical AI, her company is building a way to
• 2:01
  separate solar panels layer by layer so valuable materials can
• 2:06
  be reused or upcycled. By listening to our story, you
• 2:10
  discover how Lenovo's vending machine in reverse approach
• 2:14
  recovers materials without crushing or chemicals, Why
• 2:19
  getting technology to work is only 30% of the job and what the
• 2:23
  other 70% actually requires, How to sell urgency in deep tech
• 2:28
  when you're building for a future problem, and why
• 2:32
  regulation in climate tech is a market, not a barrier.
• 2:36
  Plus, Angela shares why now is the moment for women to enter AI
• 2:41
  and robotics. So when you're ready to discover
• 2:44
  how a female founder is fixing solar energy's hidden waste
• 2:47
  problem, here's my conversation with Angela Bojinak.
• 2:52
  Angela Bojinak, good morning. Good to have you on women's
• 2:56
  disrupting tech. So you're a Co founder of Lenovo
• 3:00
  Recycling. Tell us how you got into that
• 3:03
  position, how you got started. Yeah, hello.
• 3:05
  It's a pleasure to be here with you.
• 3:08
  So I didn't started with the idea to to build a company, I
• 3:14
  started from a problem actually I couldn't ignore.
• 3:19
  While working in engineering and sustainability I kept seeing
• 3:24
  this contradiction. So we are scaling solar globally
• 3:28
  which is amazing but no one is really solving what happens at
• 3:33
  the end of life. So we are talking about millions
• 3:38
  of panels that will be become a waste and the current recycling
• 3:43
  methods are either inefficient or rely on heavily chemical
• 3:49
  processes. And as an engineer that didn't
• 3:53
  decide to ride with me, so it felt like we were building a
• 3:58
  green systems with a hidden gap. And at some point I realized
• 4:03
  this wasn't just a technical issue, it was a system problem.
• 4:09
  And that's where the founder mindset kicked in.
• 4:12
  I think I saw that this gap could become an opportunity to
• 4:16
  build something much bigger. So Renovo actually really came
• 4:23
  from that intersection. So engineering, sustainability
• 4:26
  and I'm, I think. OK.
• 4:29
  And I think you did a study in mechanical engineering and you
• 4:36
  have a background in intellectual property and I
• 4:40
  think you even did did something along the lines of aviation in
• 4:44
  Belgrade. Yeah, exactly.
• 4:47
  So how does that play into this? You're an engineer, but how does
• 4:53
  the education help in sporting and solving?
• 4:56
  Yeah, I think my engineering background really shapes how I
• 5:02
  approach everything today. It trains you to take something
• 5:07
  complex and break it down into smaller, so soluble pieces,
• 5:12
  let's say. And in deep tech especially,
• 5:16
  that's a critical because it's not about having a cool idea.
• 5:21
  It's about making something actually work in in the real
• 5:25
  world. But what's really influenced me
• 5:28
  is combining weight, the intellectual property thinking.
• 5:32
  So from day one, we started asking ourselves, can we build
• 5:38
  this? I'm also asking, can we defend
• 5:41
  this? Can this become a long term
• 5:44
  advantages? So because in deep tech, your
• 5:47
  product is not just a machine, it's the knowledge behind it,
• 5:52
  it's what you learn, what you protect and how the compounds
• 5:56
  over time. So we've been building Renault
• 6:00
  not just as a piece of hardware but as a technology platform,
• 6:05
  something that gets stronger and more we develop it, it's harder
• 6:12
  to be replicated. And you also have a background.
• 6:16
  Well, not a background, but you have a black belt in Taekwondo.
• 6:21
  Exactly. Does that help at all?
• 6:24
  Is is there something that that you take from the sports?
• 6:29
  Do you actually still practice Taekwondo?
• 6:32
  Yeah, I'm active still, so martial arts actually shaped me
• 6:38
  more than I realized at the time.
• 6:41
  So the biggest thing it taught me is discipline under pressure.
• 6:46
  So pressure either turns you into dust or into diamond.
• 6:50
  I think so, because in startups, motivation comes and goes and
• 6:56
  you can feel great one week and completely stuck in the next.
• 7:01
  What really carry carries you forward is discipline.
• 7:05
  You're showing up and doing the work anyway.
• 7:09
  It also really changed how I see failure.
• 7:12
  You know, in martial arts, you lose all the time and you get
• 7:17
  used to do it, but you don't see it as a defect.
• 7:21
  You see it as a feedback. So you'll learn all the time.
• 7:25
  Like, OK, what do I just have to adjust?
• 7:29
  You know, what do I improve? So and that mindset is
• 7:35
  incredibly useful as a, as a founder.
• 7:37
  I think so. And then there's a respect for
• 7:41
  the process. Also, honestly, deep tech is
• 7:45
  exactly like that. So you're building physical
• 7:48
  systems, things that take time, things that break, you iterate.
• 7:54
  There are no shortcuts. So I think that Taekwondo train
• 7:59
  me to stay consistent, stay patient and keep moving forward
• 8:03
  even when the progress is not immediately visible.
• 8:07
  Yeah. So there's also a bit of
• 8:10
  resilience, I hear you say. For sure, yeah.
• 8:13
  Yeah, Yeah. So I don't think this is your
• 8:16
  first company you also worked for or Co founded 3 block maybe.
• 8:25
  Maybe tell us a bit about what that company was about and how
• 8:29
  you apply the learnings in your current venture, Lenovo.
• 8:32
  My first company is software as a service and was really my
• 8:37
  first deep dive into building something at the interception of
• 8:42
  sustainability technology and real market adoption.
• 8:47
  At the beginning, we were very ambitious.
• 8:50
  We tried to tackle a broad part of the ecosystem.
• 8:56
  Technically, a lot of what we built made sense over time.
• 9:01
  I. What did you build?
• 9:03
  So it's a software as a service, it's about the ESG compliance.
• 9:07
  So we built the totally digitalised AI supported ESG
• 9:13
  reporting system. OK.
• 9:17
  But over time, I realized something important.
• 9:20
  Even the best solution struggles if you don't enter the market in
• 9:26
  the right way. That's the experience that
• 9:29
  really shape how I think today. It's Renovo.
• 9:33
  We've taken a completely different approach.
• 9:36
  Let's say instead of starting white, we're starting very
• 9:39
  narrow. We just solar installers for
• 9:41
  example, there the ones who feel the pain firstly, so they become
• 9:49
  a natural entry point. From there you can expand in a
• 9:53
  much more organic, scalable way. Personally, I became much more
• 10:00
  disciplined as a builder at my first startup, Trip Block.
• 10:05
  We sometimes build a head of validation.
• 10:08
  Now we validate earlier. So this is a fundamental for
• 10:13
  every founder. We build modularity and we stay
• 10:17
  very close to real operational constraints on the ground.
• 10:22
  So I'd say that big shift is this.
• 10:26
  Before I was focused on building the solution, now focus on
• 10:30
  building the right path to adoption.
• 10:33
  So let's shift to to the problem that you're solving with Lenovo.
• 10:40
  As you said, there's there. We build a lot of solar panels.
• 10:43
  We install them everywhere. I even have them on my roof, to
• 10:47
  be honest. And then at the end of life,
• 10:49
  it's sort of you just throw it out and doesn't get recycled.
• 10:54
  Yes, I think, but not in a really clean in Greenway.
• 11:02
  Exactly. If you look at what's happening
• 11:05
  globally, we're scaling solar energy incredibly fast, which is
• 11:11
  a great, I love renewable resources, honestly.
• 11:15
  But at the same time, we are not really scaling what happens at
• 11:19
  the end of life. And that's where the problem
• 11:22
  starts. So in the next few years, we are
• 11:25
  going to see a lot of solar panels reaching out of life.
• 11:30
  Right now, there are basically 2 outcomes.
• 11:32
  So either panels end up in the landfills or they go throughout
• 11:38
  the chemical pure ologist recycling processes that are
• 11:42
  expensive, energy intensive and actually destroy part of the
• 11:47
  material value instead of actually upcycling it.
• 11:52
  So we're facing a bit of paradox.
• 11:55
  We're building a clean energy solution that is quietly
• 12:00
  creating a base problem we don't know how to handle yet.
• 12:05
  And that become critical for a few reasons.
• 12:09
  Example, environmentally, if we don't solve this, we're just
• 12:14
  shifting the problem. We reduce the emissions, but we
• 12:18
  increase the waste. And economically solar panel are
• 12:22
  not just the waste. So they contain valuable
• 12:25
  materials like aluminum, silicon.
• 12:27
  So today a big part of value is simply lost.
• 12:32
  And the last one may be more more important is about
• 12:36
  scalability. If we want solar to truly be a
• 12:40
  sustainable technology, I think that circularity can be
• 12:45
  optional. It has to be part of the
• 12:47
  infrastructure. So we we wonder to put the the
• 12:52
  shift in thinking it's not just about how many panels we
• 12:56
  install, it's about what happens after the end of life.
• 13:00
  Because that's what will define whether solar is truly
• 13:04
  sustainable or just temporary clean.
• 13:08
  Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, we're just pushing
• 13:10
  the pushing out problem into the future.
• 13:13
  Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:15
  So I heard you say something interesting because with the
• 13:20
  chemical recycling methodology, we also lose materials.
• 13:26
  So either they end up on a landfill or they get well, let's
• 13:30
  say touched by the chemicals. So and there's, I heard you say
• 13:35
  aluminium and probably there are other materials that we can
• 13:40
  reuse or should even reuse. What's the economic base case
• 13:45
  here? Yeah.
• 13:48
  So we have the the the the plastics dealer and Eva that is
• 13:53
  very useful for for example, 3D stamping industry.
• 13:57
  So our approach is to find pathways and supplying chain
• 14:01
  also from the from the outcomes. And of course this is upgrading
• 14:05
  the economy behind it for sure. Yeah, so.
• 14:11
  Out of curiosity, how did you find out that this problem
• 14:15
  exists? So when I started looking into
• 14:18
  space, I thought the problem was recycling itself.
• 14:22
  But pretty quickly I realized that it's not just about the
• 14:26
  core issue, it's how recycling is being actually done today.
• 14:30
  So most existing solutions rely on chemical processes, so
• 14:35
  they're cover only part of the materials, and more important,
• 14:40
  they're very hard to scale economically, so they're big
• 14:44
  plan centralized systems even when recycling exists.
• 14:49
  It's not really solving the problem crucially in sustainable
• 14:53
  way. But the real turning point for
• 14:57
  me was something more operational.
• 15:00
  We're starting looking at where the problem showing up in the
• 15:04
  real life, in the operational life.
• 15:06
  It's not in the recycling bats, it's on the field actually.
• 15:11
  So solar installers are the ones dealing with the problem.
• 15:15
  So they're placing it, they're doing logistics and they're
• 15:20
  actually treating somehow the waste.
• 15:23
  They're the first to face the issue, but they don't have the
• 15:27
  tools for to have to support this infrastructure that handle
• 15:32
  it efficiently. So there is a problem.
• 15:36
  The problem happens in one place, but the solutions are
• 15:40
  designed somewhere else. For example, and that's where
• 15:44
  the idea behind Renault actually pop up.
• 15:47
  Instead of starting from large centralized recycling
• 15:50
  facilities, we ask ourselves, OK, what if we started from the
• 15:55
  point of the friction? So really, really at the point
• 15:59
  where the the solar panels come back from.
• 16:03
  So, so let me see if I understand this.
• 16:07
  So these solar panels are installed and they reach the end
• 16:10
  of life. I call solar installer like,
• 16:14
  hey, you have to replace them. Is that how it works?
• 16:17
  And then they take it. Exactly.
• 16:20
  OK. So then, then they bring it back
• 16:23
  to their facility and then there's no process there.
• 16:28
  And what I, if I understand you correctly, there is a process to
• 16:31
  recycle, but that's not let's say at the installer level.
• 16:36
  So they have to bring it to a large facility where they can do
• 16:42
  that. Exactly.
• 16:44
  And it's what you're building then solution that solar
• 16:48
  installers can do this work themselves.
• 16:52
  Actually depends on the country. On European level, there is a
• 16:56
  organized certificate systems that can support and recycle the
• 17:02
  systems. What we offer is actually
• 17:04
  technology and approach of modularity.
• 17:08
  So we are cutting costs of the transport modular system.
• 17:12
  You're not losing your very value in transport and you have
• 17:18
  a lower OpEx cost. You don't treat the the out the
• 17:24
  input with the chemical agents and output is more efficient.
• 17:29
  So we are tackling also Eva entitled plastics.
• 17:32
  It's very, let's say soft part of the sandwich structure.
• 17:38
  Yeah and but but can the solar installers then sort of how how
• 17:46
  does it work? Can they business take out all
• 17:51
  the parts that they need to rebuild solar panel?
• 17:57
  Is is that how it can work? Where?
• 18:00
  Yeah, depends. As I said of the of the country,
• 18:03
  if they are certificate system, of course they can have in their
• 18:07
  inventory system modular machinery that can actually
• 18:13
  transport our output in the in the supply chain.
• 18:17
  So that's the idea. You're not actually losing your
• 18:21
  value in the transport to some centralised system.
• 18:27
  So let's, how does that work because you're in Italy, let's
• 18:34
  take Italy as an example. So do they have the the system
• 18:38
  as you described with the licensing?
• 18:41
  Exactly. It's the build on the consortium
• 18:44
  level and you have the inventory from where actually the solar
• 18:49
  panels are transported to the centralized systems.
• 18:53
  OK, cool. How do you deconstruct the solar
• 18:57
  panels without chemicals? Because currently we use
• 19:02
  chemicals to do that. So how do you do that without
• 19:06
  what? What does the the solution look
• 19:09
  like? Is it a robot or is it?
• 19:12
  So let's think first of solar panel, not as a object, but as a
• 19:18
  perfectly layered sandwich of valuable materials.
• 19:22
  So glass, aluminium, silicon, etcetera, they're bonded
• 19:25
  together. Now the problem when and of life
• 19:31
  is reaching the most recycling today.
• 19:34
  Basically crush them everything together.
• 19:36
  So you lose value, you lose your purity and a lots of potential.
• 19:42
  We do opposite. We don't destroy panels.
• 19:45
  The simple way to picture it is like a vending machine.
• 19:48
  So you put your panel and instead of mixing output you get
• 19:53
  each component back. So clean and separate.
• 19:57
  We do it it mechanically. We separate each label layer
• 20:03
  control with our invention tool inside of the box in a
• 20:07
  controlled precise way with the robot, industrial robot, so
• 20:13
  material can be recovered at high purity and reduced once
• 20:18
  again. But the real innovation isn't,
• 20:21
  isn't just how we do it, it's rare and how the system actually
• 20:27
  leaves. So as I said, traditional
• 20:29
  recycling is centralized heavily on chemical intension.
• 20:33
  So you collect waste, transport it, process it in a one big
• 20:37
  facility. We flipped it model.
• 20:40
  So we are building modular system that means it can adopt A
• 20:44
  different volumes, it can be deployed closely to where panels
• 20:49
  are actually stored and it can scale over time step by step.
• 20:54
  So instead of massive plant, you have a distributed network of
• 21:01
  let's say intelligent recovery units from recycling as
• 21:05
  destruction to recovery of precision and engineering.
• 21:11
  Yeah, so. So I want to go back to
• 21:13
  something you said earlier because you're targeting solar
• 21:17
  panel installers and not to production facilities and you
• 21:23
  said it was a better entry point.
• 21:25
  Why is it that it is? It's a better entry point.
• 21:28
  OK, because actually that's the where the story of the solar
• 21:33
  panel actually ends. So and where the real problem
• 21:37
  begins. We often think about solar panel
• 21:40
  at the moment it's installed, clean energy, future
• 21:43
  sustainability. But Fast forward 2025 years, who
• 21:48
  is standing there when the panel comes out of the roof?
• 21:53
  And that's the installers, not the manufacturer.
• 21:56
  So they're the ones. So they're dealing the with the
• 22:00
  broken or aging panels, managing the logistics and figuring out
• 22:05
  what do we do with this. Now, while manufacturers are
• 22:11
  focusing on creating the next generation, installers are
• 22:15
  dealing with consequences of the last one.
• 22:19
  That's where the friction is. That's where the urgency is.
• 22:23
  That's exactly where we decide to start.
• 22:26
  And the second is speed. If you try to enter throughout
• 22:30
  manufacture, you step into world of long validation cycle,
• 22:35
  certification and years of integration.
• 22:38
  Before everything was on at installers.
• 22:43
  They're actually operate in the real world.
• 22:46
  They need solutions now, something that reduce cost,
• 22:50
  simplify operations and just works on site instead of waiting
• 22:55
  years. We can create in fact, in fact
• 22:59
  immediately. Yeah, if they are like more
• 23:02
  strategic layer. By working with installers,
• 23:04
  you're not just selling a solution.
• 23:07
  We position actually ourselves at the region of reverse supply
• 23:13
  chain. We see the panels first, we
• 23:17
  understand their conditions, we control how they enter the
• 23:21
  recovery process. So that's actually where
• 23:24
  installers are. So they also get a bit better
• 23:29
  understanding about products and what may be later on, what parts
• 23:34
  they can reuse on site and what parts still need to go to.
• 23:38
  Exactly. Some sort of bigger facility?
• 23:43
  Exactly. So one of the things when we
• 23:47
  spoke before you, you mentioned that you're sort of building a
• 23:53
  physical AI. How does AI play into what
• 23:58
  you're building? What's, what's the physical and
• 24:01
  the, the physical part I think we've talked about, but the AI
• 24:05
  part, I'm just really curious about that.
• 24:08
  So physical AI for us is very simple to understand and
• 24:12
  intelligence does not stop at analyzing data, but actually
• 24:16
  acts in the real world throughout machines.
• 24:20
  AI today lives in software. It recommends predict,
• 24:25
  prediction, optimized decisions, but it does not touch anything.
• 24:29
  In your case, the value is creating when something
• 24:33
  physically happens, when a panel is actually taking apart.
• 24:37
  Physicalize the combination of seeing, thinking and doing the
• 24:40
  system. Use sensors and vision to
• 24:43
  understand what is looking at it.
• 24:47
  Use AI to detect the best way to handle it and the robot to
• 24:53
  execute that decision in precise way.
• 24:55
  And this is where the shift happens.
• 24:58
  Traditional machine does not the same thing every time, it
• 25:03
  follows the six sequences no matter what you give it.
• 25:07
  So our system actually position the solar panel recognize is it
• 25:13
  correct And then after that it actually support the separation
• 25:19
  of the materials and give the data from the out.
• 25:23
  Yeah. So it also recognizes the
• 25:25
  materials exactly. So does it is it sort of like
• 25:30
  you used to have this this login feature?
• 25:34
  I forgot what it was, what the name was, but where you had to
• 25:39
  click on all the pictures with a car in it.
• 25:42
  Is that is that how you also train your your AI?
• 25:48
  Exactly because every solar panel have a certain QR code,
• 25:53
  certain data and from the data we actually gather the data from
• 25:57
  the manufacturer. So we know serial number, we
• 26:00
  know the the values and of the materials as that.
• 26:04
  The second part is positioning. So we are positioned the solar
• 26:09
  panel on the on the table inside of machinery.
• 26:12
  After that the rubber actually starting to manipulate in
• 26:16
  mention of the tools as the recoveries happen.
• 26:20
  And in the end, in the end actually AI supporting the
• 26:26
  recycling, sorting it in the bins and error bins actually is
• 26:32
  collected with the data. So how much of those values are
• 26:38
  recovered? Oh, OK.
• 26:40
  So is it? Is it Also does it also look at
• 26:43
  the original specs? Like there's five bits of
• 26:46
  plastic in there and now there's five also back in the in the
• 26:52
  bin. Exactly.
• 26:53
  It's also supporting let's say traceability.
• 26:56
  So we have average value of the solar panel that is 25
• 27:01
  kilograms. So I I know exactly how much of
• 27:04
  aluminium, silicium or even plastics I have from 1:00.
• 27:10
  Yeah, yeah. So another thing that I was
• 27:15
  wondering about that because you're, you're sort of building
• 27:18
  ahead of the curve, so to say, in the sense that this volume of
• 27:25
  solar waste is slowly growing, but the real peak is still
• 27:29
  ahead. How do you how do you build a
• 27:32
  company for a problem where there's well, they are starting
• 27:38
  to get a level of urgency, but it's not like it's still maybe,
• 27:44
  maybe not not the the main headache that everyone wants to
• 27:49
  solve right now. How do you keep that on track?
• 27:54
  This is actually the kind of market we deliberate choose to
• 27:59
  be in because the wave is coming but most people do not feel it
• 28:05
  yet and that creates a unique window for us.
• 28:09
  The important thing is this is not a hypothetical problem, it
• 28:15
  is delayed certainty. Solar panels last around 25 to
• 28:22
  30 years and huge volume installed in the early 2000s now
• 28:29
  approaching dear end of life. So the question is not if this
• 28:34
  become a massive issue, but when right and the completely change
• 28:39
  how you build the company. So we are not waiting for the
• 28:43
  problem to explode, we are using this white face to prepare for
• 28:48
  it. First we enter early and
• 28:51
  validate before the peak. We work with the players who are
• 28:55
  already starting to feel the first, let's say, signs of this
• 29:01
  problem. So it starts recycler utilities
• 29:05
  and that gives us really real data, real feedback and real use
• 29:11
  case, not just assumptions. We are also focused on building
• 29:16
  the infrastructure before demand spikes because when the rain
• 29:21
  hits, it is already too late to start from zero.
• 29:24
  So today we are validating as I said, we are in fundraising
• 29:28
  maturity level 5. So the technology have to be
• 29:32
  aligned with the regulation and integrating into supply chain so
• 29:37
  that we are ready to scale when volume actually increases.
• 29:42
  And we are also design everything for exponential
• 29:46
  growth, not linear growth. So we are avoiding building
• 29:49
  something oversized too early and instead we use our modular
• 29:55
  system to scale step by step in parallel with the market.
• 30:01
  So in reality, we are not betting on timing.
• 30:05
  You're actually engineering readiness.
• 30:07
  You're using a pre, pre phase, let's say to become most
• 30:11
  validated, the most integrated. Yeah.
• 30:15
  OK. So as I understand it, you're
• 30:18
  currently raising funding. You're do you have pilots in
• 30:24
  some way, shape or form? We're at the the propelled
• 30:27
  stage. So in the maturity level of five
• 30:30
  on the scale of the maturity of the technology, which is one of
• 30:33
  the most critical and honestly one of the most exciting moments
• 30:38
  in the Tic Tac journey because this is where you move from idea
• 30:43
  to reality. And our focus so far has been
• 30:49
  very clear. There is the the fundament.
• 30:53
  We didn't try to do everything at once.
• 30:57
  We focus on answering the questions at a time.
• 31:01
  Does this actually work? Yes.
• 31:03
  And when we proved that a chemical free physical approach
• 31:07
  can separate heat components of the solar panel while preserving
• 31:12
  the air quality. So that's a big shift because it
• 31:16
  shows you don't need to destroy materials to recover them.
• 31:21
  And second question, does the market actually care about this
• 31:26
  approach? So we spend a lot of time
• 31:28
  talking to installers and industry players and what came
• 31:34
  back was consistent. So the current process is
• 31:38
  efficient, expensive and often just headache.
• 31:43
  So there is a really interest in something that is more flexible,
• 31:49
  let's say more local 1, easier to integrate into deer daily
• 31:54
  operations. So that gave us a strong
• 31:57
  validation that we are solving a real problem.
• 32:01
  And we are also asking ourselves, can this become a
• 32:06
  system? Because it's a modularity
• 32:08
  approach, not just a technology. And this is where we define the
• 32:13
  the modular approach. So something that can scale
• 32:17
  operationally, not just in the lab.
• 32:20
  So because in the end technology alone is not enough, so in deep
• 32:25
  tech have to accept this reality, it has to work as a
• 32:31
  business. So now the next phase is where
• 32:34
  things get even more real. So we are moving from lab to
• 32:39
  build something that is working the real environment, something
• 32:44
  that can operate in real condition with real partners.
• 32:48
  So we want to see how it performs on site, how fast it
• 32:52
  works and how actually value we can actually recover.
• 32:58
  At the same time, we are validating also economics,
• 33:01
  because scalability is not just about engineering, it's about
• 33:05
  numbers. And alongside that we are
• 33:09
  starting to build our first commercial relationships.
• 33:13
  So in parallel, we are raising funds to accelerate technology,
• 33:17
  because in deep tech there is always gap between saying it
• 33:22
  works and proving it works in the real world.
• 33:25
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 33:27
  And for the for the the proof you actually need to pilot.
• 33:31
  So I imagine that the next stage will be when you have funding
• 33:37
  is, is the funding conditional for being able to do pilots or
• 33:43
  is that separate? Oh, that's a that's a big
• 33:47
  question because yeah, unfortunately it's, it depends
• 33:51
  on findings of course. So, but I will have to say that
• 33:56
  we boost trapped our technology for one year and we reached
• 34:00
  maturity of level 5. So there's a lot of passion, a
• 34:05
  lot of maybe also support on the national and European level from
• 34:09
  the grants I will add, but it's not enough to support that
• 34:14
  technology to be industrialized. So yeah, we are fundraising
• 34:18
  actually our technology to be industrialized.
• 34:22
  Yeah. And then then the with the
• 34:25
  funding you can get pilots. Exactly.
• 34:28
  OK, So the reason I was asking that sometimes you can get like
• 34:32
  subsidies for pilots to test out technologies like this in in
• 34:39
  real world. So that's why I was wondering.
• 34:43
  So how do you convince other parties in the in the supply
• 34:47
  chain of the urgency that now is the time to start building, to
• 34:53
  start testing this, to start doing pilots to make sure that
• 34:58
  it works when peak hits? You don't convince people by
• 35:04
  talking about the future, you convince them by showing what is
• 35:08
  already happening today. Because the biggest mistake is
• 35:12
  trying to sell let's say 250 problem when most people are
• 35:17
  focusing on what affects them now.
• 35:20
  So also in the fundraising. So we shift the narrative
• 35:25
  completely. We do not say one day this will
• 35:29
  be a huge issue. We show that is has it has
• 35:33
  already started. So solar panel are already being
• 35:36
  stored. So today due to the demand
• 35:40
  inefficient or early replacement and regulation like WEEE already
• 35:45
  required companies to manage dear end of lives.
• 35:49
  So now not in 10 years, not in 30 years.
• 35:54
  So instead of positioning Renova as a future innovation, we
• 35:58
  position it as something that helps them stay compliant and to
• 36:02
  prepare for today. So then we encore everything in
• 36:07
  real signals, non projection. We talk about actual panels
• 36:12
  coming off roofs, real inefficient in current recycling
• 36:16
  and real partnership and pilots. We're going to the conversion
• 36:22
  moves from vision to evidence. Yeah, the real turning point is
• 36:28
  this, we do not selling urgency, we sell economics.
• 36:32
  Even before the peak, there is already value in the recovering
• 36:37
  highly quality materials. Yeah.
• 36:40
  So basically you're selling the current business case, not
• 36:44
  potential future business case. Exactly so like solution for the
• 36:48
  current issue. So and, and then it sort of
• 36:53
  becomes urgent now for the for the solar installers.
• 36:57
  Exactly, Yeah. So what what role does
• 37:02
  regulation play because the European we're we're in the
• 37:05
  European Union and we're quite, let's say we have quite a bit of
• 37:10
  green regulation that both supports the solar panels to be
• 37:16
  installed, but also sports that it gets treated in a
• 37:22
  environmentally climate friendly way.
• 37:25
  How, how much sport is coming from there, How much of the
• 37:29
  business case is coming from there?
• 37:30
  Yeah, the the most heavily let's say procedure is rely on a
• 37:38
  manufacturer. So they are actually obligatory
• 37:41
  to look whole supply chain of their product.
• 37:46
  So actually they're our good clients for sure and they have
• 37:52
  to have a traceability. There's also where the physical
• 37:56
  AI pop out. So you're offering also a quite
• 38:01
  good traceability from scanning care coding from the
• 38:05
  manufacturer throughout output you can totally trace the one
• 38:13
  product. So from the production to dear
• 38:15
  end of life and to upgrading system throughout modular
• 38:20
  recycling. OK.
• 38:23
  So I just want to go back to the AI bit for a minute because I
• 38:29
  was wondering, Yeah, what's the biggest opportunity here?
• 38:34
  Is that just, do you plan to stay with the AI and the object
• 38:39
  recognition and taking a complex product part and enabling it to
• 38:46
  be recycled, Is that just confined to solar panels or do
• 38:51
  you see possibilities in other industries as well?
• 38:56
  Yeah, we started with the solar panels, but our idea is to offer
• 39:03
  a modular system for small infrastructure.
• 39:09
  So could be our pivot in the in the in the future scaling.
• 39:16
  Yeah, for sure. AI is a big support in our
• 39:20
  technology that is working with the robotics.
• 39:24
  So yeah. Yeah.
• 39:25
  So, So what? What is the robotics part of
• 39:29
  this product? Maybe also touching bit on that.
• 39:33
  So imagine one box that have industrial 6 access robot that
• 39:40
  inside actually manipulate the tools, robot actually doing the
• 39:47
  work in autonomous way. So as that taking the tools, he
• 39:55
  actually approached the solar panel layer by layer as that the
• 39:59
  system is totally independent. Yeah.
• 40:04
  So do you build a robot yourself or is that something you buy off
• 40:08
  the shelf and then install the software in it?
• 40:11
  No, we actually buy any industrial robot.
• 40:16
  Our invention lay in the process lay in our developed tools that
• 40:22
  is manipulated by industrial robot.
• 40:25
  OK, so the the IT doesn't matter what type of robot, maybe even a
• 40:30
  solar installer has one. But then you can use your the
• 40:35
  the physical AI to help them deconstruct the solar panels.
• 40:41
  Exactly. So I want to switch to some
• 40:46
  practical tips for for for founders.
• 40:50
  Let's say people in there who are building in deep tech were
• 40:52
  in climate, you're currently moving from idea phase into
• 40:59
  practical application in the real world.
• 41:03
  So, phase five, what is something that is often
• 41:07
  underestimated about that journey?
• 41:11
  Good question. The biggest thing founders
• 41:16
  underestimate is this. Getting the technology to work
• 41:20
  is maybe 30% of journey. Getting it adopted in the real
• 41:26
  world actually is the other 70%. Because in deep tech and climb
• 41:32
  tech is a huge gap between saying it works and having
• 41:36
  something actually pay for it. So most funders fall in love
• 41:43
  with their innovation. But in real challenge, yeah,
• 41:48
  it's a it's a little bit different.
• 41:53
  So most funders really challenging integration.
• 41:59
  You can build something incredible, but it does not fit
• 42:02
  into existing infrastructure, workflow and regulation.
• 42:07
  It simply will not be used. So in our case, not enough to
• 42:12
  recycle panels, better you have to plug into logistics system,
• 42:17
  compliance workflow and certificate process.
• 42:20
  So adoption is not just about how advanced you are, it is how
• 42:25
  easily you fit in the in the real world.
• 42:28
  I think so. Then there is the reality of
• 42:33
  sales cycle. So founders often think if the
• 42:37
  technology's stronger customer will come, but in reality you're
• 42:42
  dealing with a long non linear processes.
• 42:46
  So multiple stakeholders, let's speak before contracts and
• 42:51
  decisions that can take months or even years because you're not
• 42:55
  just selling product, you're changing a part of the
• 42:59
  industrial system, let's say. And they're saying people on
• 43:03
  this underestimate. I think regulation may see it as
• 43:08
  a barrier, but in climb tech, I think it's actually the market.
• 43:12
  If you're aligned with the earlier, accelerate everything.
• 43:16
  If you're ignore it, you get blocked.
• 43:20
  Yeah. So there there are just the
• 43:23
  regulatory part that I hear you say, but the the what, what is
• 43:28
  the biggest sales argument then? Is it the the fact that
• 43:32
  companies have to comply with regulations and that you and you
• 43:37
  quote UN quote make it easy to do that, or is it that you have
• 43:42
  a process that or a solution that helps them get more
• 43:49
  materials out in this case and does that in an easy way?
• 43:54
  So firstly, this is a hardware reality where it's very
• 43:58
  different from software things. So break times, timeline slip,
• 44:02
  cost increase and moving from something that works in lab to
• 44:06
  something that works in real world consistently is one of the
• 44:11
  hardest step I think. So there is what I would call
• 44:17
  the last mile problem. Even your technology works, you
• 44:22
  still need installation, training, maintenance and
• 44:25
  reliability. And that's where a mini solution
• 44:28
  fail. So the real shift for funders is
• 44:33
  to stop thinking about stop asking is can we build it and
• 44:38
  start asking? Can the market absorb?
• 44:40
  So every time is a reflection of what market think about it.
• 44:47
  Because success in deep tech does not came from the
• 44:50
  breakthrough alone. It comes from designing the
• 44:53
  entire system around it, who uses it, how can it be deployed,
• 44:59
  how it integrates, how it creates value in the real world.
• 45:04
  So this is the the the core. I also saw something that
• 45:09
  touched me a lot a movie on on LinkedIn.
• 45:14
  Will link to it in the show notes.
• 45:18
  You want to inspire other women to go into tech?
• 45:22
  Why is that? So for me, the opportunity it's,
• 45:26
  it's much bigger than just working in tech.
• 45:29
  It's about being in the position to shape a little bit of the
• 45:34
  future instead of just adopting to it.
• 45:37
  Because right now you're in the moment, I think where technology
• 45:41
  like AI, robotics are ratifying entire industry.
• 45:47
  If you're enter in these fields today, you're not just choosing
• 45:51
  a career, you're influencing how the system, infrastructure and
• 45:56
  even society maybe will work in the next 1020 years.
• 46:01
  And what makes this especially powerful for young women is
• 46:06
  timing. You're entering while the rules
• 46:08
  are still being written. So these industries are still
• 46:12
  involving, which means there is less legacy, more space to lead
• 46:17
  earlier, and more opportunity to define what leadership actually
• 46:22
  looks like. So.
• 46:24
  Why is it important to for for women particularly, to enter
• 46:29
  into this space? For women, I, I, I think that
• 46:33
  for me was to liberate my ideas, to explore, to be in an
• 46:39
  environment where I, I feel good and to expose my capabilities.
• 46:45
  So I'm supporting every woman to show their a background to, to
• 46:51
  try to try to build the companies, even if they're
• 46:54
  failing. It's it's really good to explore
• 46:59
  and to deep dive in your curiosity.
• 47:03
  Yeah, so how about failing the the standard European mindsets?
• 47:08
  I'm I'm bit shortcutting this, but is is failure is bad.
• 47:13
  So if you go bankrupt, especially at least in the
• 47:16
  Netherlands, if you you have sort of a stain on your on your
• 47:20
  dress for the rest of your life. How can women flip that
• 47:25
  narrative for for themselves? Because I think that's my what
• 47:30
  what I see is that it's that fear of failing is holding
• 47:34
  people back. Not necessarily that they don't
• 47:38
  that they cannot do it, but many, many people just don't try
• 47:42
  the entrepreneurial part. So the the for the first step is
• 47:46
  like knowledge, try to like add every layer of knowledge that
• 47:51
  you can have and try to find a community that inspire your
• 47:57
  curiosity. There's a bunch of community
• 48:00
  that's supporting activities in different sectors, different
• 48:04
  levels. So try to share your ideas.
• 48:08
  Also before starting try to validate your idea.
• 48:13
  So in sense try to speak with with the people, share your
• 48:17
  ideas, communicate, trying to get as much as possible
• 48:22
  feedbacks. As that you are became stronger
• 48:25
  and for sure failure will be weaker.
• 48:28
  Yeah. Is it?
• 48:29
  Is it also because you you said that Taekwondo is is is all
• 48:35
  about failing and learning from it?
• 48:38
  Yeah, for sure, maybe. Maybe it was my building blocks,
• 48:41
  let's say. Yeah.
• 48:43
  So for me, the technologies like space, not just the tech needs
• 48:49
  more women's that this is the one of the various moment where
• 48:53
  entering early gives you opportunity to to make something
• 48:59
  new. So to develop the skills, the
• 49:02
  vision is that you're not just participating, you're helping
• 49:05
  building the system that that's. My yeah, you're shaping.
• 49:09
  You're actually shaping not only just one, one company or one
• 49:12
  product, but in the entire, let's say next 10 to 25 years of
• 49:18
  our lives. Exactly.
• 49:21
  I think I think that's really powerful and something that
• 49:26
  women should be part of because it's also their lives.
• 49:29
  Exactly. So I want to move towards the
• 49:33
  end so really enjoy talking to you. 2 questions left.
• 49:38
  One is I'm developing an AI based funding coach to connect
• 49:43
  female founders with investors. What do you think is needed?
• 49:54
  What is essential to ensure that a tool like this really empowers
• 49:59
  women? Well, it's a very powerful idea.
• 50:03
  I want to say a very needed one, but difference between something
• 50:09
  that's truly empower founders, something that just digitalize
• 50:14
  all BSS came down to a few critical choices you make early
• 50:18
  on. So I think the tool should not
• 50:21
  just optimize for who looks fundable today, it should help
• 50:26
  unify who could become fundable with their right support.
• 50:31
  So a good funding coach, I think should expand opportunity, not
• 50:35
  just ranking it. So transparency's key, let's
• 50:39
  say, to understand why they are getting certain recommendations,
• 50:46
  but stimulus matters. What is missing?
• 50:51
  What can be improved? Because if the system feels like
• 50:55
  a black box, it can easily reproduce the same dynamics that
• 51:01
  already exist. I love your idea, I'm supporting
• 51:06
  it, it's great. Well, thank you.
• 51:09
  So what? What support did you have so far
• 51:11
  in fundraising? So we passed through different
• 51:15
  accelerator and that you're like 3-4 months and yeah, it was
• 51:22
  great. We are also involved in the AIT
• 51:26
  community that's European innovation technology community.
• 51:33
  We are also tackling certain workshops like sales workshops
• 51:39
  that we have all engineering background.
• 51:43
  Yeah, that's our activity. Yeah.
• 51:46
  So do they help those those accelerators in your view?
• 51:51
  Yes, I'm, I have to say that our national Italian accelerators
• 51:56
  are very good. They're supportive.
• 51:57
  So we passed throughout different activities like
• 52:01
  marketing, business development, also deal room data preparation
• 52:08
  or so demo days, investors meetings.
• 52:13
  Yeah, up to now it was very supportive.
• 52:17
  OK And do you do the fundraising or is that your Co founder or do
• 52:22
  you do that together? So I'm a Co founder.
• 52:26
  I have the role of Co. So I I'm also doing the the the
• 52:30
  fundraising. So we are entering in the in the
• 52:35
  discussion with the VCs business angels.
• 52:39
  Yeah, that's my role. OK.
• 52:41
  And. Currently, in terms of
• 52:43
  investors, who are you looking for?
• 52:46
  So we are looking at VC that are in the deep tech or robotics or
• 52:51
  climb tech industry that could support our vision for the
• 52:56
  modular system and to scale with us in the in the more
• 53:02
  sustainable and practical way let's say.
• 53:04
  Yeah, and what ticket sizes do we need to think of?
• 53:08
  So now we are raising 1,000,007 with save mechanism in the end
• 53:15
  of the 2026. OK.
• 53:18
  And and and that's a total sum you want to raise and, but are
• 53:22
  there like if in, if I come with two and a half €1000 tickets, am
• 53:30
  I welcome? Of course.
• 53:33
  So we are in the pre seed, pre revenue phase.
• 53:36
  We validate our technology up to 2026.
• 53:40
  So we want to reach a holy maturity.
• 53:45
  This ticket will support us to build the the pilot.
• 53:49
  We already have signed for a letter of interest and I will
• 53:53
  support to the play deploy 5 units in 2027.
• 53:58
  So after that we will prepare for seed round.
• 54:03
  Yes. So Angela Ojinak, thank you very
• 54:07
  much for an amazing conversation.
• 54:08
  Really enjoyed it. If people want to learn more
• 54:10
  about you and connect with Lenovo Recycling, where would
• 54:15
  you like to send them? Thank you.
• 54:18
  It was also my pleasure to be here today with you.
• 54:22
  So the easiest way is to start with our website.
• 54:25
  So on the Renovo recycling dot IT and you can reach out also on
• 54:31
  LinkedIn or YouTube channel Renovo Recycling.
• 54:35
  OK, yeah. And you're, I think even your
• 54:38
  pitches there. Yeah, on, on YouTube.
• 54:40
  So. So we'll link to all of that in
• 54:43
  the show notes. Angela Bojianak, thank you very
• 54:48
  much. Listeners.
• 54:50
  Thank you very much for listening.
• 54:51
  And until the next episode, as always, keep being awesome.
• 55:06
  Well, that's it. Thank you for listening to
• 55:08
  episode 154 of Women Disrupting Tech titled How a Female Founder
• 55:13
  is Fixing Solar Energies, Hidden Waste Problem with Angela
• 55:17
  Bojnak. Angela and I hope that you found
• 55:20
  our conversation as interesting and insightful as we intended it
• 55:24
  to be. And if you have any questions
• 55:26
  for Angela, please leave them in the comments sections on
• 55:30
  Spotify, YouTube, and or Apple Podcasts.
• 55:33
  I do read all the comments and I'll make sure you get an
• 55:36
  answer. If you want to connect with
• 55:38
  Angela or learn how her journey with Lenovo recycling continues,
• 55:43
  please check out the links in the show notes.
• 55:45
  As usual, you can find the show notes at Women Descripting, Tech
• 55:48
  dot Blog and on my sub stack. Find the links in the caption.
• 55:53
  If you found this episode useful, I'd love for you to take
• 55:56
  a moment to rate and review the show on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
• 56:00
  or YouTube. And if you don't follow us yet,
• 56:03
  please hit the follow or subscribe button so you never
• 56:06
  miss future episode. Once again, thank you for
• 56:10
  listening. I hope to see you in the next
• 56:12
  episode. And until then, as always, keep
• 56:15
  being awesome.