Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 23, Season 1: Raising Secure Children

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Episode 23, Season 1: Raising Secure Children · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Lovedog podcast. I'm your co host Raina,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: but you're here with our host, doctor Sarah henslee By,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the owner and CEO of The Dating Decoder soon to
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: be The leved Off. I know it's not going to
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: be branding. I know that's not going to be The
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Dating Decoder much longer because we are launching her rebrand.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: We're in the process and uh, super exciting stuff going on.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, so exciting.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: You're just outgrown. She's kind of outgrown outgrade.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: The Dating Decoder because I started out just working with
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: people like in dating relationship situations, and so I've expanded
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: to so much like working with singles, working with couples,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: working with people that are married, people that are living together,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: people that are just dating, and so it just doesn't
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  Speaker 2: describe what I do anymore. That's right, and so that
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: is you know, it's a strategic marketing strategy, right, but
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: also just to inform people more of who I am.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Right, and I think it kind of it just kind
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: of ext me some of that confusion around what it
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: is that you really do because attachment is so broad, right,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: and you can talk about so many things when it
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: comes to relationships, which actually brings up the topic of
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: this episode, which is episode twenty three, and it is
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: raising secure kids. So attachment actually even translates over into
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: our relationships with our children.
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  Speaker 2: It does because you are forming your child's attachment style
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: on your growing based on yours, based on yours and
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  Speaker 2: your parenting and how you So attachment is formed when
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  Speaker 2: a child is young. Like most attachment, we say like
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: the foundation of attachment is formed between zero and five
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: years old. So like birth, literally the day they're born,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: attachment starts to five years old is the most impactful
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: time for a child. That doesn't mean that their later
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: experiences don't impact attachment. It's just like the foundation of
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  Speaker 2: the house is right right right. And so there's so
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: much I have learned on my journey, so many things
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: I wish I would have done differently. You are forming
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: your child's attachment based on your romantic relationship with.
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  Speaker 1: Their other parent, based on your own triggers.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Based on your own triggers, your art interaction with your
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: own children, And so inevitably, at least once in every
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: group that I have, I have somebody that says, hey,
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  Speaker 2: do you have any information about making sure much how
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  Speaker 2: it grows up secure because now that I realize how
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I became so insecurely attached, I don't want to do
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  Speaker 2: this to my kids. I don't want my kids to
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  Speaker 2: suffer because insecure attachments always choose other insecure attachments, or
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: narcissists or people with other major problems. Secure people attract
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: and are attracted to other secure people. And we know
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: the science is clear. The person that you marry is
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: the person or the thing in general, the biggest predictor
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: of your life happiness.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, and so I think we can both.
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  Speaker 1: We have so much personal experience when it comes to
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: this topic. And listen. If you're a parent, you need
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: to listen to this episode, or if you're soon to
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: be parent, that's even better because the further that you
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: can get ahead of the game, the better, because man,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: there are so many things that I would do different,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: and then I'm still learning. Gosh. I mean, you know,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: over you know, last week I had a big oopsie.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: We all have oops's with our children. We all have
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: moments where maybe we get a little more angry than
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: we should.
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  Speaker 1: I was just triggered.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I was triggered.
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  Speaker 1: I got triggered, and my triggers when it comes to
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  Speaker 1: my son's dad are deep and I can't always get
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: control of them in the moment. And I had a
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  Speaker 1: weak moment, and you know, my son suffered for it,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm still dealing with that guilt. But I also listen,
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  Speaker 1: five years ago, I would have beat myself up for
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  Speaker 1: like two weeks, and I've learned over time to graciously
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  Speaker 1: give myself some acceptance and the fact that one I'm human.
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  Speaker 1: Two I'm still working through some things, you know, with
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  Speaker 1: that pain and that trauma.
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  Speaker 2: But you did what a secure parent would do, which
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  Speaker 2: would which was apologized and take accountability and say I
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  Speaker 2: got a little bit angrier than I should.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, immediately, actually immediately once once my prefrontal
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  Speaker 1: cortex kicked in and my logical brain said wait what.
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  Speaker 2: Hold on a second.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, oh baby, I'm so sorry. I'm
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  Speaker 1: so sorry. I just allowed my triggers to completely take over.
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  Speaker 1: And my triggers are not your responsibility.
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  Speaker 2: Amen, So look what you did. You repaired it. And
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  Speaker 2: so much of raising secure kids is about repair because
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  Speaker 2: kids are hard.
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  Speaker 1: They're hard, and.
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  Speaker 2: You know, specifically, both of my kids are fearful avoidance.
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  Speaker 1: I hate it min's anxious, preoccupied.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, ap through and through. Both of my kids are
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  Speaker 2: fearful avoidance. Why well, duh if you've ever been like
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  Speaker 2: I say dead to myself, I'm not saying it to
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  Speaker 2: my audience. It's like, if you know my story, you
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  Speaker 2: know their dad and I had an extremely toxic, horrific
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: relationship and then he died. The death of a parent
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: alone as a single event, would be enough to create
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  Speaker 2: fear full of rance. So I would say my oldest
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: is I can't almost even see the fa in her anymore.
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  Speaker 2: She's very secure, so freaking proud of that child. Gosh,
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  Speaker 2: she's such a good kid, and she's so emotionally intelligent,
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  Speaker 2: and she's so good and well behaved from.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: You, Oh thank you.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: But she had to grow up faster than she should have.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, both of us, I think, you know, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so she I mean, she has friends sometimes
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  Speaker 2: that are emotionally immature, and so I have the bar
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  Speaker 2: app on her phone so I can read all her
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  Speaker 2: text messages, right, I see everything that comes through on
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  Speaker 2: her phone, and the way that she'll respond, like in
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: a group chat, if somebody starts being immature and by
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  Speaker 2: hurt is like like you are better than an adult. Like, oh, yes,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: like you've got it. Like she'll say, hey, guys, like,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: you know, let's remember to just maybe we just need
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: to take a breath here, or you know, let's just
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  Speaker 2: remember that you know, we're all friends, or you know,
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  Speaker 2: she tries to settle things, or you know, sometimes she'll
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: have to say a boundary. She'll say, listen, guys, this
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: conversation doesn't feel good to me. I'm gonna hop off.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I'm exiting the conversation when you guys are ready to
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: like settle your issues. Then, because there's lots of group chats,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: and with teenagers, it's like everybody's in the chat, right.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: I see some secure traits in John Paul, which I
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: think is probably normal. A lot of parents could probably say, well,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I see some of these traits that may lean you know, anxious, preoccupied.
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  Speaker 1: But then sometimes he'll show up secure, and I think
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: that's because again, because they.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Have us, Yeah, because we're trying to show them the way,
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  Speaker 2: the truth and the light there are. I think the
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: most important thing to know about raising secure kids is
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  Speaker 2: that what you think might not be a big deal,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: or they may not remember the nervous system. Always remember
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  Speaker 2: oh man.
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  Speaker 1: This is huge. Can I just say one thing because
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: this never forget. This is one thing when I went
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: back to apologize to John Paul is I brought something
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: up about my own mother, right, because Josh actually challenged
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: me and he was like, all you can do babies
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  Speaker 1: apologize And he was like, I mean, I know you
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  Speaker 1: talk a lot about your mom, you know, when you
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  Speaker 1: were young, and how angry she would get. He was like,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, don't you remember her coming back and apologizing?
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  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, I don't. And I'm like, ever,
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  Speaker 1: but here's the thing. Maybe she did. Maybe she did.
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure there were times that maybe she did. All
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  Speaker 1: I remember, though, or all my nervous system remembers, is
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: the trauma is the fear, right of like when she
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: would get mad and me be like, oh no, what
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  Speaker 1: do I do so that she doesn't feel this way? Right?
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  Speaker 1: And so I brought that up to John Paul while
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I was apologizing to him, and I said, listen, our
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  Speaker 1: nervous system this way that when something like this happens,
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  Speaker 1: I mean we were both ball and crying, you know,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: when it was all, when we were in the throes
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  Speaker 1: of it, Our nervous system has its way of remembering
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  Speaker 1: the trauma associated with these events. But if I can
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  Speaker 1: tell you anything, I'm going to look you straight in
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  Speaker 1: the eye and say I am deeply, deeply sorry, and
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  Speaker 1: I hope and pray that that's the part you remember.
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  Speaker 2: Please God, Still it will be because repair is so important.
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  Speaker 2: Repair is soothing to the nervous system, right, and so
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  Speaker 2: the nervous system will start to realize, even if there's
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: a disruption in this relationship, that it will be repaired. Right.
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  Speaker 2: It's when we don't know if repair is going to happen,
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  Speaker 2: or we don't know the future or the stability of
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: the relationship, then our nervous system stays very stuck. So
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  Speaker 2: I thought in this episode, I would just go through
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  Speaker 2: some things that I would never do again after I
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: became very aware of how to heal attachment and how
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: to raise secure kids.
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  Speaker 1: So basically, what not to do.
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  Speaker 2: This is what not to do. One thing I would
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  Speaker 2: never do is let my infant cry it out. I
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  Speaker 2: let my first oldest child cry it out. Horrible, horrible mistake.
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  Speaker 2: There's a lot of pretty much every how to get
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  Speaker 2: your baby to sleep solution is involves them crying it
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: out and baby's nervous systems are not designed for that.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: They're not designed for that.
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  Speaker 1: I didn't do that. I picked my child up. Whatever.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Well, good for you, because again the cell from these
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: you know, parenting coaching, baby sleep solution people is they're
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: not going to remember it. Yeah, their brain remembers and
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  Speaker 2: it wires it in. It wires the fear and the
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: abandonment inside of their nervous system. It is a traumatic
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  Speaker 2: event for that baby to alone and to be crying.
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  Speaker 2: It is a trauma. You are traumatizing your child. They
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: are a babe.
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  Speaker 1: I've always thought that, even before I even knew anything
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  Speaker 1: about it, I.
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  Speaker 2: Was so exhausted. I bought into it because my sweet Gabby,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: she never slept. That child never chompon.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: I co slept till he was seven seven, he was seven.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I finally got co slept with my second Gabby
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  Speaker 2: never wanted to come in my bed. She would want
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: me to be on the floor by her bed. She
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be in her bed, but be on the floor.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: So many of the I slept on the floor. And
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: then you know, I tried to cry it out a
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: number of times. It never did work, but I know
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: it was traumatizing. And there's a reason that it's hard
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: for you, mama to listen to that baby screaming or dad,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: because it goes against the human nature of attachment. All
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: that child is asking from you is to be held
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  Speaker 2: and to feel safe. And if you leave that baby
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  Speaker 2: alone crying, its nervous system is putting together multiple neural
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  Speaker 2: connections that our grooves in the brain around feeling abandoned,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: feeling scared, feeling alone, feeling betrayed. And you've broken attachment.
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  Speaker 2: You've broke it. You've severed it.
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  Speaker 1: Like, it's not that it's not fixable.
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  Speaker 2: It is fixable. Yeah, and as you parent them, you
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: can start to mend some of that. Right. I'm not
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: saying that like it's stays severed forever, right, But I'm
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: saying in those like like you've dug yourself whole that
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  Speaker 2: now you're going to be trying to work your way
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: out of right because your baby doesn't remember cognitively, but
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  Speaker 2: their nervous system will always remember.
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  Speaker 1: It was easier for me personally to not let him
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: cry out. Now he didn't. He wasn't the best sleeper.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I think there's something about your first they're just like, yeah, sorry,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: this is going to break in where you're just never
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: going to sleep again. And so like, I mean, he
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: wasn't a good sleeper, but I don't I don't know
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  Speaker 1: if me making him cry out would have made him
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: a better sleeper.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's conditioning, right, And that's what's crazy
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  Speaker 2: about attachment and behavior. We are all like our behavior
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: is driven by either motivation, which is the need for
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: a goal to me a go, it's driven by classical conditioning,
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  Speaker 2: which is the conditioning of automatic responses and sleep as
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: a reflex and it's an automatic response, so it can
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  Speaker 2: be classically conditioned, right, And that's what crying out is.
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  Speaker 2: It's classical conditioning. It's pavlov dog right, or operant conditioning,
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  Speaker 2: which is rewards and punishments shape our behavior, which is
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  Speaker 2: be a skinner. Right.
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  Speaker 1: That's just soothing a baby when it's crying. I would
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  Speaker 1: fall into that category.
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  Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, So soothing a baby when it's crying is
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: a positive reinforcement, right, and so like it pairs the
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: baby will pair crying with being soothed, right, which pairs
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: like crying an emotional expression with safety. Do you see
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: where we're going with this?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, right, thing number two I would never do, would
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: be ever to dismiss my child's feelings. I would never
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: say stop crying. I would never use the words stop crying.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I would never say calm down to my child. I
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: would never And so people are going to be like, well,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: then how do you teach them emotional stability through regulation?
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: The more you maintain your own regulation and you teach
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: your child regulation, that's what makes them regulated over time.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Telling them to calm down, the only tool they have
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: is then suppression. So you're teaching suppression, which then leads
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: to attachment avoidance. So the first thing you can do
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: is always say, hey, I see you're really upset, or
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: I see you're really sad right now, or I see
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: you're really angry right now. Hey I understand, I see
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: those big feelings. The first thing you want to do
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: when your child is showing a negative emotion, so let
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: them know you see it, and you're there like, I
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: see this. You've got my attention right because a lot
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: of kids act out emotionally because kids have a power
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  Speaker 2: bucket and an attention bucket that they need filled up
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  Speaker 2: every single day. They have to feel like they have
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: personal power and they have to feel like they have
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: your attention.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Does that really change as you get older?
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: It does some I through adolescents, children naturally move away
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: from needing as much attention from their parents, right, But
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: then the need for power and autonomy increases. Right, So
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: the need for attention a little bit decreases, but they
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: still need your teenagers still need you.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: I would never dismiss my child's feelings. I would never say, oh,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't feel that way, or old, don't be so
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: worried about that, or oh, you know, that's no big deal.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I would never say any of that because obviously they
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: think it's a big deal. That's what they're trying to communicate. Right,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: So when you say, hey, like I see you, I
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: get it. You know, I see that you're really angry
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: right now. I help my kids label their emotions. Oh,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: I know you're disappointed right now? What want? Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: Or do you feel it in the body?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: And I I do chant? And then I would I
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: thought challenge with them. So how true is that story?
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Like there's a story behind this, right, there's a story
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: behind what happened to you? You know, what is the
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: story for you? So, like my seven year old Lexi
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: last night. She I always ask my kids, you know,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: before they go to bed, and I love dad chats
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: on TikTok because he does this too, and I and
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I was like, I do that with my kids too,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: before they go to bed. I'm like, is there anything
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: on your heart that you want to talk about?
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: And Lexi said, there was this girl and her class
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: is being mean to her, right, And she's like, I
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: don't understand. I try to be so nice and like,
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: you know, I just don't know what And she and
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I was like, well, so what do you think is
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: the reason that she's mean? And She's like, I don't
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: really know. And I'm like, well, what are you telling
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: yourself for the reasons that she's me? And you know,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: of course, her seven year old brain's like, well, she
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: just doesn't like me, you know, something wrong with me?
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  Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, that's the story. You think there's
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: something wrong with you? Well, are you nice to her?
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Do you try to be a good person? Yeah? Well,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: then that story just can't be true. Right. If you're
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: trying your best to be nice and to be kind
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: and then there's nothing wrong with you, then it sounds
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: like she's got something going on. With her it sounds
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: like that's what the story is, right, And so you know, again,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: an anxious person would go, something is wrong with me? Right?
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: A secure person goes, well, what the heck is wrong
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: with them? Because they know that they've showed up well?
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: And how can I try to understand that part of
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: that other person or maybe their pain?
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Right? And so you know, and then we talked about, well,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: how do you respond when she says these things? Right?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: So I'd teach her, you know, what would be the
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: secure response. So, first of all, having really open communication
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: with your kids is really really important. Talking to them
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: about emotions and how they feel emotionally is so freaking important.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: How can your kid ever learn to be vulnerable with
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: an intimate partner If they can't be vulnerable with you,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: they will not make those neural connections. They will have
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: no experience doing that. So I would never dismiss, punish,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: or shame my child's emotions. I would try to understand, empathize,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: and then bring logic and rationality into their thought processes.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: And then finally, if they're very, very dysregulated, we go
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: into the body and we figure out how to breathe
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: it out, which is moving that emotional energy with tools
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: that I teach, like self neurofeedback, because you have to
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: teach them how to process emotions effectively, which means feeling
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: them in your body. Right. The language of feeling is feeling.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: They're felt, right, you call them feelings because they're felt,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: and emotions are actually feeling is the emotions are actually different.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Emotion is the feeling in the body plus our thoughts
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: about what's happening. So if you can change your thoughts
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: in the story and you can calm down the somatic sensations, yeah,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: you've processed your emotions.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's the turning point is when you
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: really challenge what the truth is, right, Yeah, because then
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: they can really think that through.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Right, and then take some personal accountability. Well, how did
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: you show up? Right? Like, I'm just curious, you know,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: you know, no matter what you do, I'm not going
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: to be angry at you. But let's talk about it. Yeah, right,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Because one of the things that my mom did, and
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I'm again I love you, mom, Please don't be mad
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: at me. One of the things that she did as
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: a child that that was hurtful is whenever they would
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: be like a riff with a friend and I would
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: come and I'd be like, so and so is being
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: me to me. She'd be like, well, what did you do?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: What did you do? And it was always like what
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: did I do to create it? Right? And then I
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: was left with there must be something wrong with me? Right?
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: And sometimes people treat you badly because you're not acting well,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: and then other times people treat you badly because they're hurt.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: We all have to realize that we're responsible for our
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: own behavior. So if anybody is acting poorly, you still
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: have a responsibility to show up not poorly, that's right,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: instead of boundary and leave this situation or whatever boundary
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: you need to protect yourself. The answer isn't showing up
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: poor back.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: And I wish you know, I mean, for a I'm
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: going to bring this up just because you are a
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: girl mom, so for us that are boy moms, and.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: I have a step son who I am my mom
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: a little bit.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: You know, boys, My question is it universal?
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Like boys are a little bit I think just naturally
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: a little bit harder because I can tell you, I
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: mean from the get go, you know, I've always really
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: tried to be emotionally open with John Paul but I
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: can just kind of see him, you know, when it
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: gets really like in depth, he'll listen, but he kind
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: of there's not a lot of feedback. Let's just say
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: that there's not a ton of feed We need to.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Do an episode on the anxious preoccupied. Somebody requested it
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: because they are. The anxious preoccupied is as emotionally unavailable
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: as the dismissive avoid it, just in a different way.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: They're emotionally unavailable because they fawn, which isn't true emotional vulnerability.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: It's just I'm sorry, please forgive me.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it's a facade.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not standing up for your true needs or
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: your true ones. It's falling on the sword to make
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: it better, to make it go away.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. That's John Paul. I mean even in
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: the midst of that what happened, you know last week,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: it was like he was he was just you could
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: tell there was no you know, most kids would have
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: if your parents have an emotional outburst, like sometimes it
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: warrants an emotional outburst in the child, right, that's not
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: John Paul. John Paul is just like I mean, you
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: can just see like the tents the fear. Yeah, the fear,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: I mean the fear of like, just make it stop
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: whatever whatever. I don't know what has to happen right now,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: but just make all this stop.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: And you know, even when I called him to apologize,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: you know, and I'm like, I'm still very upset. I
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: actually apologize multiple times, but you know, and I'm like,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I just need to, you know, explain to you why,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: you know, and and so that you can understand, you know,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I promise I won't give you details that just need
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: to you know, you to understand. He's like finally he's like,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I can't, I can't do this, and like that was
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: the most, Like that's the most my child will do
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: in terms of like emotion. He just doesn't. He it's
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: hard to say, like because sometimes he'll really disassociate.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Well, the ap the it's it's usually not dissociation, it's
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: usually flight. So they're they're really internally struggling. Yeah, they
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: just keep it in. Yeah. Yeah, So we definitely needed
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: to do an episode on the HG because.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: I don't even know if you I feel like, you know,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: you talk a lot about the DA and your contents.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Everybody wants to know about it. Yeah, everybody's like.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: That's what it is, right, Yeah, But the AP, I
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: mean they're pretty yeah, we'll do an episode. Yeah. And
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: there's some confusion too, because I've heard a lot of
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: people calling it the AA and I'm.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Like, no, no, no, yeah, I mean anxious anxious attachment.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: So it does get the AA label. I just call
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: it the AP because I think it describes it better.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: But what else would I not do. Let's see, I
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: would not let my kids off the hook without them
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: taking personal accountability for their mistakes. I did not let
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: my kids blame shift. Yeah, if they screw up, it's
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: not well, so and so did this, or so and
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: so did that or this or that. Nope, I need
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: you to take accountability here for your part. I needs
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: to just sit here and I need you to figure
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: out what your role in this was. That's right, and
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: then I need you to tell me.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: So.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Accountability is huge and it's what secure people can do.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: And insecure people, I mean, they struggle horribly with the
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: accountability all three insecure attachment styles. I mean, if the
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: anxious preoccupied is spawning, oftentimes they don't necessarily really feel sorry.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: They're just saying sorry to get it to stop to
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: repair the relationship to her weid abandonment, right, so, you know,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: I would say that my oldest daughter is so good
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: at taking accountability if she screws up, like and her
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: screw ups are so minor, like WEBSI turned in an
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: assignment late, and like the way school is nowadays, they
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: don't care it's late. It like goes missing and they
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: have a certain amount of weeks to get it back in.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: So something goes missing, I'm like, I thought you had
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: everything done? What happened here? And she's like, I take
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: full accountability. You know, I didn't write it down on
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: my planer. I realized that was my fault and I
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: wasn't as organized as I should have been. And on
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: top of that, and I'm actually going to go take
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: care of that right now. Like that's what my daughter
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: does right now. Instead of being like, well that class
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: is dun man, she's really really like the teacher's awful
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: and like I just have too much homework and I
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: can't keep up with everything. That would have been my
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: daughter like three years ago.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: She's yeah, she's come around.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: She's such a good I mean, I think.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: That happens too, Like as they you know, evolve into teenagehood.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, because I feel like John Paul middle school
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: was rough. Middle school was really rough when it came
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: to like assignments and academics. And then you know, once
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: he got into high school and matured a little bit
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and became more accountable and more a little more organized,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: you know, things got a little bit easier. But I
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: think that kind of like attitude of like, oh, you know,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: it's stupid, you know, it kind of goes away as
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: they mature and become more secure.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: YEP. I would never allow my kid to stay in
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: an abusive friendship or relationship. Yeah. My daughter had a
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: friend last year who started kind of going downhill emotionally
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: and treating her kind of poor.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: And I taught her to set boundaries and she wasn't
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: allowed to break them, even with family. And I said, yeah,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: even with family. And I said, She's like, well, do
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I have to cut the relationship off completely? And I
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: was like, well, there's a point where you know, that
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: is your decision, but here's my boundary. She's not allowed
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: in this house, you know, because of the things that
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: she said and done. If you because she's integrated into
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: your whole friend group. Like, I get it. You can't
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: like cut her off completely, excuse me, but you can
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: have a boundary around not being close with her anymore. Yeah,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: and she did because she can't trust her.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we've had to do that with our friends.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, oh gosh, which is a different, different, different episodes?
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, this has to be a short one. Unfortunately
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: we're a little crunched on time.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if to wrap things up, because I
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: know this one does because the last one we did
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: was so long. But you know, where would you in
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: terms of advice to parents, where would you tell them
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: to start.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Earning your own attachment security? There you go hundred percent.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't teach secure unless you're secure.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Extremely true, because children learn largely through modeling. So if
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: you're modeling and secure behavior, Sorry, guys, I got something
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: in my throat to you know, towrd your spouse or
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: your child. You're creating an insecure.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Child, that's right, right, And you're creating that environment where
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: you know, again, I think that the perfect example is
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: in the midst of something that happens, right, So, looking back,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: I'm almost grateful for what happened between my son and
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: me a week or so ago, because it shows me
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: where I still need to grow, right, and because we
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: we're human as parents, and parenting, let's be honest, is
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: really hard. It is so hard at times. I think
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: it might even be harder than your romantic relationship with
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: your partner, because there are these little facets, especially as
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: they get older and they age, where you're just like, wait,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: now what right?
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Now? What do I do?
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I just learned this and now I don't know how
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: to approach this, and so but I think you know,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: if you the best way to start becoming secure is
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: of course learning your own attachment security, which is absolutely
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: doable through your program, but you have to start changing
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: the behavior in the midst of the moment.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, and that's what I teach people to do. And
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: we're going to do an episode probably, I guess next
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: week on capacity building. Like what that actually means? Yeah,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: because knowledge does not equal security.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And you talk a lot about capacity building in
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: your content, and I think sometimes people like take it in,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: but wait what And it's really about integration, But most
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: importantly it's about giving our nervous systems these different experiences.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Yep. You have to be able to consistently over time. Yeah,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: if you're a nervous system, different experiences, and there's ways
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: to do that alone by yourself. Yeah.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: So of course, you know, if you are looking to
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: just improve all the relationships in your life, it doesn't
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: have to be just your romantic relationship, it's really your
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: relationship with self, your romantic partner, and your child. Then
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: you need to go see doctor Hensley services at the
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Datingdecoder dot com. Check them out there. Her hybrid group
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: coaching program is her most popular and super super effective.
• 28:34
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• 28:36
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  Speaker 1: more importantly listen, it is our responsibility as parents to
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  Speaker 1: give our children everything that they deserve and one of
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: the best gifts that you can give them it's attachment.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: It's true, so that they can grow up to choose
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: good partners.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: And really navigate relationships success. Yeah, in all walks of life.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: I mean it creates true resilience.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: It does, it does, and I mean creating resilience in
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  Speaker 1: your children is through regulation. Yes, So go check out
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  Speaker 1: doctor Hinsley services at the dain Decoder dot com. And
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: until next time, peace, love, and perspective.