Latest / The Dr Louise Newson Podcast / 07 - It’s Probably Nothing: unpacking the pitfalls of women’s healthcare with Naga Munchetty

Transcript

07 - It’s Probably Nothing: unpacking the pitfalls of women’s healthcare with Naga Munchetty · The Dr Louise Newson Podcast

0:03
Today on the podcast, I'm very excited and privileged to have
0:07
with me, not a Munchetty, who is a presenter, journalist and
0:11
actually really inspirational to allow others to think and move
0:17
forward in lots of conversations.
0:19
So I've obviously been very enamoured with your work for
0:23
many years, but I was super excited when you asked if I
0:26
could be involved in your book that has just come out called
0:29
It's Probably Nothing, but It absolutely isn't Nothing, which
0:34
we're going to talk about today. So thank you so much for joining
0:38
me. Oh, well, look, thank you,
0:41
Louise. I'm, I'm really proud of this
0:44
book. And one of the reasons I'm
0:46
really proud of this book is because I got brilliant people
0:49
to be part of it. You know, I had more than 100
0:52
contributors and I was determined that I was going to
0:55
talk to people with real life experiences, but back all of
0:59
those up with experts from their fields.
1:01
And so when you said yes to talk to me, I was ever so grateful.
1:04
So thank you. Oh, thank you.
1:06
And do you know what? I don't think 10 years ago I
1:10
could, well, I couldn't have done a podcast.
1:12
I couldn't have had these conversations because I didn't
1:14
know the suffering that was going on.
1:17
And as a doctor, obviously, I work a lot with lots of people.
1:21
But when you're AGP, which I was for 25 years, you're actually in
1:26
your own consulting room doing the best that you want to do for
1:29
your patients, but you think everyone else has a similar
1:33
experience. And it's not until you yourself
1:37
become a patient or maybe a family member or like I've done
1:42
now, expose myself to lots of people through different
1:45
platforms, especially social media, that I realise that
1:48
people don't all have the same experience.
1:51
And then sometimes I think maybe I'm quite skewed in who I see in
1:55
my clinic. But your, your book just opens
1:59
really talking not just about your experience, not a, but
2:03
about lots of other women's experiences.
2:06
And one of the things that really comes through to me is
2:09
that people often aren't listened to.
2:11
I don't know whether what you think about that.
2:14
Yeah, I mean, I was always determined that this book, even
2:19
though the launchpad from it was my own experiences and having
2:23
spoken about my own experiences on Five Live radio where
2:29
obviously I I have a show. And that's that in itself is
2:35
really difficult because it's difficult on so many levels.
2:39
Firstly, it's difficult because I want to be seen as a
2:43
professional. I'm a journalist and a
2:45
broadcaster. I don't want to be seen as
2:47
someone who has problems with my reproductive health or, you
2:51
know, gynaecological problems. I don't want to be seen as the
2:56
story because my job is to ask questions.
2:58
By the way, this is very weird being on the other side.
3:02
I never enjoy that. But the job is to get the story
3:06
out from the person you are talking to and to inform the
3:09
audience. So you never want to be the
3:10
story because you have to be impartial.
3:12
You have to be away from it so you can ask questions that are
3:16
comfortable and allow someone to tell their story, but also be
3:20
able to challenge someone. So if you're involved, that
3:22
makes it very difficult. So that was difficult in itself.
3:27
But when I did first talk about it was my coil fitting that I
3:30
first talked about on radio and the number of women and men that
3:35
got in touch who'd experienced the same thing.
3:38
It just made me think you're not.
3:40
You're not always me. Look what happened to me.
3:43
Because it wasn't about that. Because Caitlin Moran had
3:45
written about it as well, a brilliant journalist, but it
3:51
made me realise and then with my adenomyosis, which took 32 years
3:54
to diagnose and even then it wasn't a a clear diagnosis.
3:59
Of course I started realising just how many times we are
4:03
dismissed, left undiagnosed, told it's normal, told to suck
4:09
up pain and that whole idea that women because apparently we're
4:15
made for childbirth, then pain should be a natural default.
4:20
And it was seeping into the language of medicine and women's
4:25
treatment and I'm mad about it. I'm mad.
4:29
If I'm being honest, I'm angry about it.
4:31
So, yeah. And so you should be really.
4:34
I mean, my oldest, oldest daughter's actually 22.
4:37
And when I had her, it was an emergency section and I was ill
4:41
after I had sepsis and I remember going to the consultant
4:46
saying, look, I'm just really don't feel right.
4:48
I'm in so much pain. I keep getting these horrendous
4:50
sweats. I can't think straight.
4:51
I really don't think I'm well, he said.
4:53
Louise, you're, you're quite middle class, you're quite posh
4:55
and you've had a section and this is how people feel after a
4:59
section. And like, I've never had a
5:01
Caesarea section before. I didn't know what to expect.
5:05
And I'd never really expected a doctor to talk to me quite like
5:08
that because I would never waste anyone's time.
5:11
I would only go if I was ill. I wasn't getting better.
5:14
She was six week old. I'd had three different types of
5:16
antibiotics. I hobbled in to see him.
5:19
And in retrospect, I know I look really ill.
5:21
My husband, who's a doctor was really worried about me.
5:24
And you're, you're right. I think as women, we're expected
5:27
to just carry on and so much is normalized.
5:31
And I think it's, it's awful. Not just that it took 32 years
5:36
for you to have this diagnosis, but like how many consultations,
5:40
how, how much time you know, how it's sort of that's what's
5:46
really sad that people are desperate.
5:50
And then they almost gaslit and they think, well, maybe I'm not
5:53
that bad. Maybe I should just carry on.
5:55
Maybe I'm making a first. Maybe I'm wasting that doctor's
5:58
time. I don't know if you had any of
6:00
those feelings in any of your consultations over 32 years.
6:05
All of those and much more. And what's interesting is I was
6:09
diagnosed after 32 years of very, very heavy and painful
6:15
periods, but only because I had bled constantly for nearly a
6:25
month. And it was because of that that
6:28
I was referred to a gynaecologist.
6:31
I'd, the only other time I'd seen a gynaecologist was when I,
6:35
and actually he was, he was a surgeon because was to perform
6:39
my sterilisation. So the only time I was ever
6:42
referred and had a a transvaginal scan was because
6:47
I'd been bleeding for so long, abnormally up until then, every
6:52
appointment I'd had with the doctor and I'd say my periods
6:56
are really heavy, they're really painful.
7:00
Yeah, that's normal. We'll pop you on the
7:02
contraceptive pill, try the coil depo, Provera.
7:08
And so the whole time I was never diagnosed because no one
7:11
looked for it. No one ever seemed to care about
7:15
what was causing it. No one asked me, how are these?
7:17
What do you mean you've got heavy periods?
7:20
Tell me about them. And if they had, they'd know I
7:23
was passing out for the first 48 hours.
7:26
I was throwing up. I was flooding.
7:29
I was even though I work shifts, I was setting an alarm every
7:32
three hours. I was sleeping on a towel, a
7:34
period towel and a tampon and setting an alarm to change those
7:39
because I knew I'd flood them through after three hours for
7:43
the first 48 hours and I'd be in pain, I'd have cramps, I would
7:48
still be going to work. No one asked me, how does this
7:51
impact your life? Which I don't understand isn't
7:53
why the first thing a patient is asked when they come in saying
7:58
they're I'll, well, how's it affecting your life?
8:00
How's it stopping you being the best you can be?
8:03
Because if anyone had, then they'd have bothered to try to
8:06
diagnose me maybe, but no one did.
8:09
They just tried to mask these symptoms.
8:14
It's quite something, isn't it? I, I realised like I'm not from
8:17
a medical background, so no one in my family has ever been a
8:19
doctor before. And so I always see and I still
8:23
do today. Being a doctor is a real
8:25
privilege, It's a real honour. But I did a lot of hospital
8:28
medicine and it was very much treat Mrs. Blogs in bed three
8:33
with asthma, treat Mr. Smith in bed 5 who's had a heart attack.
8:37
So it was all like labels, conditions.
8:39
And then I went into general practice later on really, and I
8:43
had the most amazing trainer who said to me, Louise, you're going
8:45
to be a really bad doctor. And I said, what do you mean?
8:48
She said you're not going to be a good GP because you won't
8:50
listen. It will be about getting that
8:52
diagnosis and finally that diagnosis and then talking out
8:55
the treatment. He said in this year that I
8:57
train you, I'm going to make you involve the patient, ask the
9:01
questions to the patient, ask them what made them come today,
9:05
Why are they thinking about it? What do they think's going on?
9:09
And it really opens up my mind to a way that I still consult
9:13
now, because there might be 100 different people with
9:17
adenomyosis, but every single person's going to have a
9:20
different experience and a different impact.
9:22
So you don't want to be labeled as Mrs. Smith with whatever you
9:28
want. You've got this condition, but
9:30
actually, how is it affecting you?
9:32
How is it impacting not just you, but your work, your
9:35
colleagues, your people at home, your circumstances?
9:37
What are you worried about? Because sometimes people might
9:41
be have something very trivial, but they're worried they've got
9:44
cancer. And for me just to say, actually
9:47
it's very unlikely it's cancer. We'll do a scan then.
9:50
They're so reassured. It doesn't actually matter what
9:52
the diagnosis is, you just see what I mean and I do.
9:55
I think being involved as a patient really early on and like
9:59
you absolutely say the doctor, the clinician, understanding the
10:03
impact is really, really important.
10:07
And that I feel really sad that people aren't given that vehicle
10:12
to actually explain the impact. Because I know myself when I go
10:17
to see a doctor, I'm quite nervous.
10:19
I don't want to waste their time.
10:20
I'll answer their questions, but I won't volunteer more
10:23
information. And I understand more and more
10:26
the time constraints. People are tired, people are
10:29
busy. So you're not going to be
10:31
explaining to the doctor how you fled through the sheets if they
10:34
don't ask. But then as a doctor, you can't
10:36
build up that picture of what's the impact of that condition in
10:40
that person and the urgency not just of making a diagnosis, but
10:44
treatment options as well. Yeah, and I think, I mean, every
10:50
doctor I've spoken to for this book has given that advice.
10:54
You know, go in knowing what you want to say.
10:56
Talk about the impact of your life.
10:59
There are doctors, GPS in there who say if I have to listen, I
11:03
have to ask about the impact on life, but I don't.
11:05
That definitely didn't happen to me.
11:08
And I was dismissed for so many and so many times.
11:12
I remember I talked about this, I had thrush and I had AGP who I
11:19
saw at least twice who basically told me I was unhygienic, too
11:26
sexually active and kept saying just, well, just here, here's
11:31
the, here's the pessary. And I'd been repeatedly saying
11:35
this isn't working. And it was only because I saw
11:38
AGP because he wasn't available. And she said, oh, you can take a
11:42
tablet. And it went within two days.
11:44
And now I know I can then go to the pharmacy.
11:47
And I've been to pharmacists to have said, oh, no, Are you sure
11:50
this is what it is? And I'm like, I know what this
11:52
is because I know my body and I've had this before and I've,
11:56
I've been gate, they've been gatekeepers at the pharmacy.
12:00
And so I've gone to a different pharmacy where a woman has
12:02
listened to me and says, OK, fine, ask all the right
12:06
questions, but then gives me, gives me the tablet.
12:09
I just, I felt and both occasions.
12:12
And this is nothing against male GPS.
12:14
I've spoken to male GPS in this book who are brilliant, who who
12:17
listen, but I think women I write in the book.
12:21
I went back to that second GP who'd accused me, they'd made a
12:25
moral judgement on me and that had affected my treatment, my
12:29
medical treatment. And I look back now and think
12:32
how dare they. But I didn't realise it at the
12:34
time because I was, my pain outweighed the humiliation of
12:37
the first appointment. And it takes, as you say, it
12:39
takes so much for us to book AGP appointment in the 1st place
12:43
because we put things off in terms of we prioritise other
12:47
people, other things, work, whatever in our lives.
12:51
So, and I say this, that if someone get, if a woman is AGP,
12:56
she and she's asking about it could have taken years for her
12:59
to get to that point. It does not take half an hour of
13:02
her not feeling well. So I'll ring up the GP because
13:05
that's what I do. It takes days, weeks, months,
13:08
even years before they ask for help and that's on us.
13:11
That is bad. But.
13:13
It should give practitioners an idea of Oh my goodness, I I can
13:19
already. I already know this is serious
13:21
to her because she's here. I totally agree and one of the
13:26
things that I really worry about, and you said it earlier,
13:29
is about how much is normalised. So then it makes it very
13:33
difficult to know when do I go and see, seek medical help.
13:38
So talking about heavy periods, Oh well you will have heavy
13:41
periods. Oh, they will be painful.
13:43
Well, why do we accept it and how has it become so normalised
13:49
that people aren't receiving the right help, support and
13:53
treatments as well? And I think that's really sad
13:55
because, you know, we're both English speaking, we're both
13:59
educated. I worry a lot about areas of
14:02
deprivation for people that don't speak English, that can't
14:06
advocate for themselves, that really can't put them #1 because
14:09
they've got so much else going on.
14:11
And let you say that the impetus this sort of time for them to go
14:16
and see a doctor, it will be that much harder.
14:19
So you often in certain areas and certain communities, you've
14:23
just got one chance as a doctor, you know you'll never see them
14:26
again. And for me, it's such a
14:28
priority. If someone's coming for help
14:30
from certain areas, I will think, right, this person's
14:33
really suffering. But actually, if those people
14:35
aren't listened to them, what happens or they get given the
14:38
wrong treatment or treatment that doesn't help them.
14:41
It's an absolute car crash because it not just impacts
14:44
them, it's everyone around them as well, isn't it?
14:47
Absolutely. I mean, I've spoken to doctors
14:50
who do go to various communities and speak to, you know, for
14:54
example, South Asian communities.
14:56
It is not spoken about. Your periods are not spoken
14:59
about, and menopause isn't spoken about.
15:01
In some languages there isn't even a word for menopause.
15:04
I know. So it's like and in some it's
15:08
like. In in some languages it means
15:11
the end or the withering or you know something.
15:16
Ridiculous. That that is menopause anyway,
15:19
so, so no wonder it's taboo in so many cultures because we know
15:24
that I don't, I can't admit this.
15:25
I can't say I'm no longer of use in society.
15:28
You know, I'm the hack that goes and sits in the corner.
15:31
We go back to the days of witches then, do you know what I
15:33
mean? The normalisation.
15:36
The normalisation makes me mad because for two reasons.
15:42
One, I, I remember once being asked about my level of pain
15:49
when I had my periods. And this is someone who was
15:52
fainting, sweating through pain, screeching, wrapping, wrapping
15:57
myself around the toilet, curled in a ball, often sleeping on the
16:00
floor because I just thought if I'm uncomfortable sleeping, then
16:04
I won't notice the pain as much, if that makes any sense.
16:09
Yeah. And you're, you're digging nails
16:10
into your, the palm of your hand.
16:12
So you just, you divert the pain almost.
16:15
And I remember saying once it was later on, oh, my pain's
16:19
probably a six. That is not a six, right.
16:23
But because I'd normalized my pain because I've been told it
16:27
was normal. That's what I did.
16:28
So. And the other thing is you're
16:30
told at school, I think a lot goes back to education.
16:33
I've spoken to some young girls in the book because you'll be
16:35
aware, you know one girl who started her period before her
16:39
10th birthday and she was at school having the lesson, the
16:44
talk as it's known. And they were told, oh, it's
16:48
just a teaspoon couple of teaspoons a day of of blood.
16:53
And you're it's a bit, it can be a bit uncomfortable, but it
16:57
lasts a few days and it's fine. You'll just, you'll use period
16:59
products and you'll be fine. When she put her hand up to say
17:04
no, because no, I, I've really have, she was basically told to
17:09
shut up by the teacher because they didn't want to scare the
17:11
other girls. And I'm no one saying you have
17:15
to scare children, boys and girls, by the way, boys and
17:19
girls need to know about menstruation because boys, how
17:22
many times have you been, you know, you had a boyfriend or a
17:26
partner who's, Oh my goodness, what's happening to you?
17:28
Because they don't, they're not told about what's, what's going
17:31
on. And you explain to them, but
17:34
boys and girls need to be educated.
17:36
But also this our whole idea is just because a girl menstruates,
17:39
therefore she's in puberty and able to get pregnant, that a
17:43
girl's going to run out and get pregnant.
17:46
Now, if you're, if you're more worried about the girl getting
17:48
pregnant than having healthy periods and having a healthy
17:51
life and great career, somethings skew here, isn't it?
17:54
This societal, this message is Askew.
17:57
And that is the problem as well when it comes to normalising,
18:00
you know, pain, bleeding, heavy bleeding in that sense.
18:06
I totally agree, because also quite a few of treatments are
18:10
contraceptives, as you know. But actually for many years
18:14
people don't think about what contraceptives are and what they
18:17
do to the body and how different they are to natural hormones.
18:22
And they can increase inflammation.
18:23
So people with adenomyosis or endometriosis, often actually
18:29
giving synthetic hormones can make things worse.
18:31
They might stop periods. But as you say, women shouldn't
18:36
be defined as about their periods.
18:38
You know, It's what's going on in their body and that's what's
18:41
really important. And I think almost some doctors
18:45
and I used to do it was the way I was trained by gynecologists.
18:48
It's almost a marker of success. This woman isn't having a
18:50
period, therefore she'll be fine.
18:52
Well, no, she can still have hormonal changes.
18:55
She can still have pain, she can still have mental health issues
18:59
due to the hormones that have been given because they're
19:02
synthetic. But that's sort of not looked at
19:05
in the in the same way almost, which I is.
19:08
Again, it's focusing on the woman as somebody that has a
19:12
womb, which we're more than that, aren't we?
19:16
We are more than wombs on legs, I say that.
19:19
We are, yeah. And, and you know that, that
19:24
your book is amazing because it goes through different areas and
19:28
you know, there's quotes throughout.
19:29
But actually, as, as I said to you before we went on out, I
19:33
started reading it in the bath and I carried on, had a very
19:36
long bath. But the, it's amazing the, the
19:39
sort of sadness and the pattern. They're really sad that these
19:41
are real women. It's 2025 and these are people
19:45
with real lives and they're really struggling.
19:49
And I I just don't know why it hasn't got any better.
19:53
Everyone who took part who who I interviewed once, what happened
19:59
to them not to happen to someone else?
20:01
Indeed. That's why that, that and, and
20:04
every interview was at least an hour.
20:07
And we've had more than a 100 contributors.
20:10
And you know, some of them, some of the people I spoke to, not
20:13
all have chosen to use their real names because it's still
20:16
very painful. And they, they would say it's
20:21
almost like a therapy session because they hadn't said things
20:23
out loud when it comes to their trauma.
20:27
And it is trauma, some of it. And I found that really
20:32
heartbreaking. And I would step away from
20:34
interviews in tears sometimes because they people are just
20:39
being treated so badly or, or and, and by not being treated,
20:44
that is treating them badly. I'm not talking about something
20:48
being spoken too badly. I'm talking about being left in
20:52
this state. The those stories are also
20:59
massively cut down. So they're no more than usually
21:02
a page, a page and a half, you know, because after speaking to
21:06
these people for an hour, you can only get so much in.
21:09
And I after every story there is a professional who offers advice
21:15
in terms of how to fight your corner and talks about what
21:21
treatments are available. There's no advice as in you
21:24
should be doing this if you have these symptoms, but there is
21:27
advice in terms of how to stand up for yourself.
21:30
And this is the theme throughout it that these people who are
21:35
every person I spoke to is brilliant, but they either were
21:41
too I'll too tired, too worn down to fight and didn't have
21:47
that backup, which is what I hope this book will be will do.
21:51
It's so important. I mean, I, I found them sad to
21:55
read because as a healthcare professional, I found it really
21:59
sad thinking these women have been let down by my colleagues.
22:03
You know, it's not the fact that they are sad stories making me
22:06
feel sad. It was the fact that I feel
22:09
really disappointed actually. And I think in medicine we don't
22:14
always know the answers. We can't always make diagnosis
22:17
that we can't know everything about everything, but what we
22:20
can do is definitely listen and try and understand and we can
22:25
give options to people. And I've always sort of done it
22:28
in that if this treatment doesn't work, then that we could
22:32
try this or maybe we'd give you this investigation or I'll refer
22:35
you to this person. So it's part of sort of safety
22:39
netting, but it's also enabling patients to know they can come
22:42
back and it's not the end of the road if something doesn't
22:46
improve. Because like you say, if it's
22:48
taken a long time to come to that consultation and then I
22:52
give you a treatment and you feel no better, then it doesn't
22:55
matter how kind I am in the consultation.
22:57
If you don't feel better, it's irrelevant.
22:59
But if you know that that doctor said, well, actually she did say
23:03
if this treatment doesn't work, there's something else we can
23:05
do, it's opening that door again for you.
23:08
And I feel these poor women haven't had that as options.
23:11
And I think what's also really different now, So what it was
23:15
when I qualified, when we didn't have the Internet, was that
23:18
women learn so much more quickly than they did.
23:22
You don't have to learn anything from your doctor anymore.
23:24
You can learn from other people's experiences.
23:27
You can learn, you know, you've got access to the same
23:31
information as I have really now about diseases.
23:34
But the big thing that I think echoes through this whole book
23:38
is about being an advocate for yourself, being really prepared
23:43
for that consultation. And I think that's crucially
23:47
important. In my mind, that's the sort of
23:50
biggest take home that you come away from this book thinking,
23:54
yes, actually, I'm not doing this alone.
23:57
I'm really going to get the most out of that consultation because
24:01
it's my body, it's my life, it's my future.
24:04
And that's really important, isn't it?
24:07
Yeah, I mean, I've had to advocate for friends and family
24:11
when in all different situations, not had to, but I've
24:16
offered to because sometimes it's not that someone doesn't
24:20
have the language, it's just they're so upset by how I'll
24:24
they are that when they get into that consultation, they can't
24:28
think because they're either so relieved they're being looked at
24:34
or they're going through some treatment that they can't think
24:37
about the details. So I've often SAT with friends
24:40
or family and said, right, what do you want out of this?
24:42
What questions do we need to ask?
24:45
And I've sat there and just made sure those questions are asked
24:48
and sat, you know, by the side of someone and made sure the
24:51
questions are asked. And I'm thinking of one
24:54
particular friend when she was going through treatment who just
24:59
got so upset because there was a history of cancer in her family,
25:03
which is what she was scared of the but she would be in tears, a
25:08
brilliantly strong woman, articulate, feisty, brilliant,
25:13
but be in tears. So I would sit there and leave
25:15
her to cry and say, right, what about this and ask, you know,
25:18
the practitioner, what about this?
25:19
What about this? So that when we left, we could
25:23
go back, have a coffee and go and make sure that everything
25:26
was understood. Now this is if someone who is,
25:29
who is educated, does you say educated, capable, articulate,
25:33
you can feel overwhelmed like that.
25:34
I agree with you. What you said earlier that those
25:36
in marginalised communities who are vulnerable, who don't have
25:41
that help. And by the way, there are
25:42
advocacy groups available as well.
25:44
If you haven't got friends or family who can help, you can
25:47
look up advocacy groups as well peer groups to help you Then
25:52
what hope do they have? Yeah, it's, it's really
25:57
difficult. I, I know many years ago I, I
26:01
had pancreatitis. I was really ill and I still
26:03
have problems afterwards and went back and forth to a
26:05
specialist clinic. It was really, really very good
26:09
doctor, but I wasn't getting better.
26:11
And the last consultation I actually cried because I was
26:14
feeling so awful. And he examined me and he looked
26:17
at me and said, Louise, I think you just need some
26:19
antidepressants. And I was really the first time
26:23
I was so shocked because I knew I wasn't, I was low, was low in
26:26
my mood because I was feeling awful.
26:28
And I then actually my husband said, this is ridiculous.
26:30
I'm going to get you to see someone else.
26:32
And I think you need your gallbladder taken out.
26:34
And then I felt fine and it was obviously all related to my
26:37
gallbladder. But if I hadn't have had the
26:40
strength of my husband, if I hadn't, like this was about 10
26:45
years ago, I would still be, you know, what would I have been?
26:48
I would be taking antidepressants inappropriately,
26:51
still be ill. And I think the other thing is
26:53
it's really important that people listening know that you
26:56
can get a second, third opinion. You know, none of us has doctors
26:59
mind if someone sees somebody else.
27:02
And I think that is important, isn't it, that that people can
27:06
see someone else. They don't have to go back to
27:08
the same doctor. I think those people have this
27:11
fear of offending their doctor, don't they?
27:14
I mean, you go in and into a surgery and you're asking them
27:18
to help. You know, you've only got 10
27:20
minutes unless you've booked a double appointment.
27:22
And that's something else you can do if you know that there
27:25
are multiple conditions or you really need some time to explain
27:27
what's going on. But you really don't want to
27:31
offend your doctor. I mean, I remember apologising
27:33
to AGP, who wasn't offended by the way, because I was taking
27:37
notes because I felt, oh, do they think I'm keeping a record
27:41
of what they're saying and I'm going to use it again.
27:43
You know, how does the mind work?
27:47
I think, you know, we are intimidated or in awe of
27:51
doctors, but ultimately we have to think that we have the right
27:56
to feel better. And their job and their will is
27:59
to want to heal us. They've gone into this to make
28:01
people feel better and it is, you know, they're puzzle solvers
28:05
as well, which is part of the joy of, of that job as well.
28:08
So there is a satisfaction when they can help someone and solve
28:11
the puzzle. So it's, but it's, it should be
28:13
a partnership. It is not going there, you know,
28:17
and expect them to just tell you what's wrong for them to
28:21
immediately fix you, because it doesn't work like that either.
28:24
No. And I think that is crucially
28:25
important, actually setting the scene for the consultation even
28:29
at the beginning saying I've come because I'm having really
28:33
painful heavy periods and I would really like to talk to you
28:37
about a treatment that is going to improve the quality of my
28:40
life or I want to talk to you about the next test that I need
28:43
to have to try and get the diagnosis or whatever.
28:46
So you're framing that consultation from the start.
28:49
And I think it's really important for that patient to be
28:53
as empowered as as possible to actually anybody who can make
28:58
some notes, bring some more information is really important.
29:02
And they're not wasting people's time.
29:04
And if a doctor feels threatened, then they're
29:07
probably because they're out of their comfort zone and maybe
29:09
they're not the right person to be seen.
29:11
But at the end, I think it's also really important to almost
29:15
summarize. So from this consultation, what
29:18
I understand is you're giving me X treatment for Y symptom and if
29:22
it doesn't help, I can do zed. So you've got that really clear
29:26
because it is a partnership. You know, I feel as a doctor,
29:30
I'm actually the patients advocate, I'm there to help them
29:34
with the right, you know, I've got that knowledge and
29:36
experience, but every consultation I do is different,
29:40
even if the person had exactly the same disease, because it's
29:44
the way that, like you said at the beginning, it's the way it
29:46
affects them, but also what they want out of it as well.
29:50
Because some people, it might be the vomiting that they're
29:52
getting is far more significant than the pain.
29:55
And if I only focus on the pain, then I haven't done the right
29:57
consultation, you know. So I think that's, well, I know
30:01
it's so important and that's something that really I think
30:04
echoes through your book a lot. It gives you this fire in the
30:09
belly, whether it's out of sympathy for some of these
30:12
people or anger, it doesn't actually matter what I think it
30:15
will do. And I'm really intrigued to see
30:18
how the comments and and the reviews go with this book
30:22
because I think it's going to give people permission to maybe
30:25
be slightly different in their consultations.
30:28
I really hope so. I really hope so.
30:31
I, I, I gave a talk yesterday and a woman came up to me and
30:36
she said I've got to go back to my doctor.
30:40
I've had treatment for this and it's just not working.
30:43
And I just thought, Oh well, I'm 60 now, so not really much you
30:47
can do for me. She said, I'm going back, I'm
30:49
going to go and book an appointment.
30:51
And if this book it's just gets one person back to being healthy
30:57
and it's society is tough enough.
31:00
It is hard enough to be to try to be the best who you are.
31:04
Again, with all the systems in society at this moment in time,
31:08
our health is something there is a system, there is the there is
31:11
the NHS designed so that we are we all have the right to be
31:15
healthy, to be as healthy as we can and be the best we can and
31:18
then contribute to society. If this book just gets one
31:21
person saying no, I know how to get the the best out of my GP
31:27
appointment. I know how to get the best out
31:29
of my condition and understand my condition.
31:34
I know how to advocate for myself and I'm I'm going to go
31:37
back or I'm going to do this. Great, great.
31:42
Brilliant. Well, I think it actually will
31:44
be more than one person that does that from your book.
31:48
So but I'm so grateful for your time because I know how busy you
31:51
are. But before we end, I just like 3
31:54
take home tips. So three things that you really
32:00
would love to but make a difference to people's lives
32:04
going forward. Three things that you think
32:06
people could do that's going to improve that 60 year old, that
32:10
10 year old, whoever you know, in the in the best, shortest way
32:15
almost. Embrace puberty, talk about it
32:19
with young people and don't see it as just now you can get
32:24
pregnant for girls. See it for what it is and
32:30
embolden girls to understand their bodies at a young age and
32:34
not fear periods. Talk to each other.
32:40
Open up the conversation. We're great talking about mental
32:43
health. We're not great about talking
32:45
about our physical health, particularly gynaecological
32:49
problems. Talk about the pain you might
32:51
have because more often than not other people have experienced it
32:55
or know someone who has. But we're not talking about it
32:58
enough. We're not normalising that
32:59
conversation and know that if you go to AGP and you feel
33:05
you're not being heard, feel free to say I don't think you're
33:10
hearing me. If you become what's called a
33:13
heart sync patient when AGP is feels they've gone round in
33:16
circles and their hearts is sinking when they see you ask
33:19
for a referral. As you've said, GPS don't mind
33:23
if you get a referral. You're still not heard and you
33:25
can't you see another GP If you're still not heard, Change
33:28
practices. You are entitled to do that.
33:31
Don't give up. Very good advice, lots of
33:34
information, lots to think about and hopefully lots to really
33:38
empower people going forwards. And I'm so grateful for your
33:41
coming on today and good luck with everything with the book as
33:44
well. So thank you.
33:45
Louise, thank you so much and thank you for your wise words in
33:48
the book as well. I'm sure people will take those
33:51
away and that will help their lives be better too.
33:53
Thank you. Take care.
33:55
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