Latest / Ghost Cult Magazine Podcast / PODCAST: Episode 901 - William DuVall (Alice In Chains) Talks Metal Allegiance, The "Black Horizon" Song, and More

Transcript

PODCAST: Episode 901 - William DuVall (Alice In Chains) Talks Metal Allegiance, The "Black Horizon" Song, and More · Ghost Cult Magazine Podcast

• 0:00
  You know, with Black Horizon, it's sort of like it was almost
• 0:03
  a thing of having to embody a different reaction to each
• 0:07
  section of that song, right? So, you know, once I had the the
• 0:11
  kind of overarching narrative theme of, OK, Journey to Mars,
• 0:16
  you know, civilians, like regular people, maybe they're
• 0:19
  leaving something behind or maybe they're leaving everything
• 0:22
  behind, meaning whatever what they're leaving behind was
• 0:25
  destroyed by something, you know, So it's not like we just
• 0:30
  think it might be interesting on Mars.
• 0:32
  So let's try that. You know, it's more like we
• 0:35
  don't have any choice. We got to go and this is it.
• 0:39
  Now we're in the ship, we're hurtling through space and OK,
• 0:43
  now what if something, OK, now this section, what if something
• 0:45
  went wrong, something technical they can't control.
• 0:48
  They're just sort of spinning out of control in this
• 0:50
  situation. They have no power over.
• 0:52
  OK, What might that be like? What's up
• 1:01
  everybodyitskeith@ghostcultman.com. I am once again thrilled and
• 1:05
  honored to be joined by William Duvall.
• 1:07
  You know him best from Alice In Chains.
• 1:08
  But of course, today we're talking about Metal Allegiance,
• 1:11
  Brand new Metal Legion song, first new song since 2018.
• 1:15
  How are you doing? Oh, doing all right.
• 1:16
  Thanks very much. Happy New Year.
• 1:18
  Happy New Year to you. What a crazy time to be alive.
• 1:21
  I keep checking if we're in the matrix, but luckily we have
• 1:25
  amazing new music to look forward to, like this new metal
• 1:28
  legion song on us. Luckily gotten to listen to it
• 1:31
  early a bunch of times. It's such a banger and it's so
• 1:35
  refreshing to hear you stretch out and do other things.
• 1:37
  You know you're so you know you're you're so much range and
• 1:41
  you can do so much. And it's been great to to hear
• 1:43
  you do this track and then really like dig in and do other
• 1:47
  things that maybe people haven't heard you do much the same of.
• 1:51
  So really exciting. I know you know Mark from also
• 1:55
  from King Ultra Mega, which also phenomenal job on that.
• 1:57
  Looking forward to more of that. So you know, what a time to be
• 2:00
  alive that we can have all these groups work together kind of
• 2:04
  headache free and make great music for fans.
• 2:07
  Yeah, right on. That's well put, Well put.
• 2:10
  Yeah, well, we know. We know like, you know, you've
• 2:12
  been, you're a lifer. You've been in this game a long
• 2:14
  time. You've been in the business a
• 2:15
  long time. And you used to do everything
• 2:17
  through lawyers. And we've seen instances like, I
• 2:20
  can't believe that guy is on that record.
• 2:21
  And now it's like, oh, everybody can be.
• 2:24
  We're all just making art and jamming together and having a
• 2:27
  great time. It's it's really a lovely time
• 2:29
  for fans. But yeah, this is a killer song.
• 2:32
  Obviously a mangy Portnoy skolink, you know, you know the
• 2:36
  guys for a long time, you know, let's talk about this track for
• 2:39
  a second. Black Horizons is dropping after
• 2:42
  this interview, so we're good to talk about it.
• 2:44
  I got to hear it. It's insanely great.
• 2:46
  Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.
• 2:48
  Thank you. Did you get handed the full
• 2:49
  track? I'm sure you got to put on your
• 2:51
  own stamp vocally and melodically, but like, you know,
• 2:54
  what was your input on creating the track with the guys?
• 2:57
  Oh, well, I, I, I really, they just sent me the music and, and
• 3:00
  I did the rest. So, yeah, it was a message from
• 3:05
  Mark just kind of out of the blue.
• 3:07
  Would you interested in doing a song with with us?
• 3:10
  And I said send the music and they did.
• 3:12
  And and you know, it's it's the it's the track in the in the
• 3:16
  form that you you hear it musically.
• 3:18
  So not like a rough demo or anything.
• 3:20
  It's what it's what you hear now.
• 3:21
  And so I immediately got the title Black Horizon.
• 3:26
  And also because of the, the, the, the music to me conveyed a
• 3:33
  sense of movement. And, you know, it has all these
• 3:36
  twists and turns and shifts and mood.
• 3:39
  And, and so I immediately started thinking of a journey of
• 3:44
  some sort. And at the time, one of the
• 3:47
  things that was in the news every other day was Mars, Mars,
• 3:52
  Mars, we're going to Mars, we're going to Mars.
• 3:53
  And, you know, this rocket did this and that rocket did that.
• 3:57
  And, you know, and so I thought, well, OK, what would, what might
• 4:02
  the journey of the first civilians to colonize Mars be
• 4:08
  like? Not, not astronauts, not pilots,
• 4:12
  not trained military personnel or, you know, infrastructure
• 4:16
  personnel, just regular people, the first ship of regular
• 4:19
  people. And what might they be?
• 4:22
  What, what might the circumstances be that would
• 4:25
  necessitate regular people having to go there?
• 4:29
  And, and then what's the trip like?
• 4:31
  What if something goes wrong? So I just started thinking of
• 4:33
  that kind of narrative thread. And that's what that's what set
• 4:39
  me on the path, you know, and I just started then came the
• 4:43
  process of, of putting melody to music and words to melody.
• 4:48
  And that took a bit more time, the fleshing out of it.
• 4:52
  But the initial idea came immediately.
• 4:55
  So I just ran with it. And and that's what that's what
• 4:58
  you hear now. And I'm, I'm pleased with the
• 5:00
  outcome, you know, right. Right on.
• 5:03
  I love hearing that. Of course, no surprise that it
• 5:05
  came easy to you, but I love the concept and it fits the song
• 5:09
  beautifully. These brooding, deep verses with
• 5:12
  you know, more. I interviewed Mark already for
• 5:14
  this upcoming show and talk to him about, you know, what a fan
• 5:16
  I am of his bass playing. So there's a tremendous bass
• 5:19
  line that carries the verses and then this incredible epic metal
• 5:22
  song that branches out in the rest of the track.
• 5:25
  I mean, right from the the oak, there's an opening whale and
• 5:29
  then kind of like a little DO exclamation point you did there
• 5:32
  that I love. I listen to it over and over.
• 5:35
  It was so fun, so much fun. Yeah, man.
• 5:38
  And there's a lot of things. I think you really, you know,
• 5:40
  you're stretching yourself out. But I'm, you know, I'm never
• 5:42
  surprised at that. But like it's nice, like I said,
• 5:44
  to see you kind of take things in different places melodically.
• 5:47
  A lot of people don't. We know it from pop music.
• 5:49
  A lot of people it's 3 notes and an octave and nothing, nothing
• 5:53
  else, never. So it's wonderful to hear a song
• 5:56
  saying oh finally my ears are so happy.
• 5:58
  It's like getting watered like a garden.
• 6:00
  My ears, you know, so it's. Really good.
• 6:02
  That's awesome. I'm happy to hear it.
• 6:04
  You know, again, that music presents challenges because
• 6:08
  there's a lot going on and umm, you know, a lot of information
• 6:12
  coming at you and again, a lot of shifts in mood and tone in
• 6:15
  pacing. So, you know, it kind of, it
• 6:19
  reminded me a little bit of the Draft Tongue Orchestra, the
• 6:23
  similar challenges I faced there, right?
• 6:26
  Because that music was, again, there's a lot happening, a lot
• 6:30
  of information. And you know, there are even
• 6:33
  some things where as a singer you sort of like, OK, where do I
• 6:36
  get a word in edgewise here? And you know, if I can get a
• 6:40
  word in edgewise, what am I going to say?
• 6:44
  How many syllables do I think I can, you know, expend on this
• 6:48
  really frenetic music? You know, it's coming at you a
• 6:52
  million beats a second, you know, and I I welcome that kind
• 6:55
  of challenge, especially when the music is, you know,
• 6:58
  obviously when the music's compelling, right?
• 7:00
  It it, it, it can become a welcome challenge to figure out
• 7:04
  what you're going to do and say over top of that kind of
• 7:07
  soundscape. And, and much like with GTOI
• 7:12
  kind of found myself, I, I found myself thinking of it more in
• 7:16
  terms of a writer just to kind of like, I have to write myself
• 7:21
  a role in this movie. You know, it's like a, it's a
• 7:24
  you, you put on the writer cap, you write the role and then you
• 7:27
  act the role. And that's kind of where I was
• 7:30
  coming from with the Medal Allegiance song with Black
• 7:33
  Horizon, because it's, it's like, if you can come up with
• 7:36
  any kind of a narrative arc or any kind of a thread that, that
• 7:39
  you feel you can chase down, then it's just, it almost
• 7:44
  becomes like a little like, again, it's like a role or like
• 7:47
  a world you inhabit, you know, So, so that's cool.
• 7:50
  And then you start finding the voices that you know, can give
• 7:53
  voice to that situation. So it's, it's really, when it
• 7:57
  works out, it's really, really great, you know, really
• 7:59
  gratifying, really rewarding. Right on.
• 8:01
  I'm glad you brought up a giraffe tongue because I also
• 8:03
  thought of that when I thought when I heard this song.
• 8:05
  And it's like 10 years since that record.
• 8:07
  And of course, you know, we're very sad about the loss of
• 8:09
  Brent. So many losses this last year
• 8:12
  and, you know, just a tough one, but what a great record.
• 8:15
  And I always think about that in terms of like Tool or Dream
• 8:18
  Theater. Where's the 1?
• 8:18
  Is this the one? When is the 1?
• 8:21
  And that's the problem for singers, right?
• 8:22
  Like if you know, like, and a good problem to have actually,
• 8:25
  if you can play with that caliber musicians, everybody,
• 8:28
  you know, Portnoy's incredible skull makes incredible.
• 8:30
  There's a lot more than just metal.
• 8:32
  It's a tremendous song. I think a lot of Testament fans
• 8:34
  will be like overjoyed to hear this thing because it's so
• 8:38
  thrashy and riffy. Yeah, I imagine.
• 8:41
  Yes, exactly. Fans of Alex and, you know, fans
• 8:44
  of all these guys, they're going to find a lot to like.
• 8:47
  You know, there's a lot going on there.
• 8:49
  That's, that's that's all good. You know, they did a tremendous
• 8:52
  job. They really did.
• 8:53
  Right on. And and there's no slouch as a
• 8:55
  guitar player yourself, guitar players stretch your hands out,
• 8:58
  do you stretches, do your exercises, warm up properly.
• 9:01
  You will get injured trying to do this riff, this rhythm.
• 9:03
  That right hand is going crazy. Yeah, it really is.
• 9:07
  Like, it's fantastic. Yeah, yeah, no, he did great.
• 9:10
  And then there's that, that sort of pre solo and post solo bit
• 9:15
  man, where it's just that figure.
• 9:20
  It's like, yeah, it's going to be a lot for people to study up
• 9:23
  on. Yeah, they're going to have to
• 9:24
  process it again. I listened to this thing a whole
• 9:26
  gang of time since yesterday, so I'm very well bound up on it and
• 9:30
  I hope everyone else hits it when it drops January 13th
• 9:33
  again. Rainy Phoenix music shout out.
• 9:35
  They're having the already a banner year had just started and
• 9:38
  they're already dropping bombs left and right on fans and and
• 9:41
  and bands. It's great.
• 9:42
  And you know, another interesting thing is, again,
• 9:45
  you're no stranger to complexity and doing these different
• 9:48
  projects that you put yourself into or get invited into, which
• 9:51
  is lovely. You know, do you approach every
• 9:54
  single thing the same way in your personal process as a
• 9:57
  singer and a writer? Or do you say, hey, metal
• 9:59
  allegiance is a little more, you know, this the rash metal, an
• 10:02
  extreme metal thing sometimes on occasion with a different vibe
• 10:05
  for every song because it's usually a different alignment of
• 10:08
  people. Or do you just kind of have your
• 10:10
  process? I get in and I I got the music
• 10:12
  and I do the William. I go, I go inside me and I come
• 10:15
  out with my art. Is that how you approach things?
• 10:17
  Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that's
• 10:20
  that's really the only way I could could approach it.
• 10:23
  And like I'm just reacting in the case is something like metal
• 10:27
  Allegiance or GTO or other things that I've, you know, been
• 10:31
  involved in where I'm getting scent music that is very it's
• 10:36
  sort of it's fully realized or close to being fully realized
• 10:39
  musically. That then affords me the the
• 10:43
  luxury and the challenge of just reacting to it as a listener
• 10:47
  first. And then and then I start again
• 10:50
  putting on the writer's hat. It's like, OK, what is this
• 10:53
  making me think about? Are there any images that are,
• 10:56
  you know, that this music is sort of evoking immediately?
• 11:00
  Is there a situational thing that I can plug into
• 11:03
  immediately? And then once you do that, it's
• 11:06
  about finding words or, you know, lines, like tag lines or
• 11:10
  phrases that kind of, you know, amplify the the situation that
• 11:16
  you're feeling or that you're imagining.
• 11:19
  So, yeah, I mean, that that challenge of getting sent music
• 11:24
  and having to operate in that capacity is similar no matter
• 11:27
  who the music's coming from. But obviously my reactions are
• 11:31
  going to be according to each piece of music.
• 11:35
  So, you know, I mean, with GTO there was there were wildly
• 11:40
  different reactions to every piece of music on that record.
• 11:43
  You know, and there's a lot going on throughout that record.
• 11:47
  I mean, there's there's more danceable things and then
• 11:50
  there's kind of crushing metal things and there's really
• 11:52
  progressive things. There's a ballot on there.
• 11:55
  I mean, there's all kinds of things where I was having to
• 11:58
  kind of embody or inhabit different situations, very
• 12:03
  wildly different situations within the same record in the
• 12:08
  same album. And you know, with Black
• 12:09
  Horizon, it's sort of like it was almost a thing of having to
• 12:14
  embody a different reaction to each section of that song,
• 12:18
  right? So, you know, once I had the the
• 12:20
  kind of overarching narrative theme of, OK, Journey to Mars,
• 12:25
  you know, civilians, like regular people, maybe they're
• 12:28
  leaving something behind, or maybe they're leaving everything
• 12:31
  behind, meaning whatever what they're leaving behind was
• 12:35
  destroyed by something, you know?
• 12:39
  So it's not like, oh, we just think it might be interesting on
• 12:42
  Mars. Let's try that.
• 12:43
  You know, it's more like we don't have any choice.
• 12:46
  We got to go and this is it, an hour in the ship.
• 12:50
  We're hurtling through space and OK, now what if something, OK,
• 12:54
  now this section, what if something went wrong, something
• 12:57
  technical they can't control? They're just sort of spinning
• 13:00
  out of control in this situation.
• 13:01
  They have no power over. OK, what might that be like, you
• 13:04
  know, what might they say? What might you, what might you
• 13:06
  say to yourself if you were kind of staring that situation down?
• 13:10
  And you maybe you have a family you're responsible for, like
• 13:13
  you're a father. Like, you know, I think in terms
• 13:15
  of like, what might obviously it's easy to make things first
• 13:19
  person or as first person as you can.
• 13:21
  Like, what might I do as a, you know, person with a family?
• 13:25
  I'm in that situation. And, you know, I'm trying not to
• 13:28
  panic, but I'm panicking inside my mind.
• 13:30
  And so, you know, maybe maybe I voiced the internal dialogue
• 13:34
  that this person is going through.
• 13:36
  That was so. But yeah, section by section in
• 13:39
  that song, there were plenty of things to kind of say, oh, what
• 13:43
  if this or what if that, you know, and then you just make a
• 13:45
  choice and you run with it and really cool.
• 13:48
  Like I said that that can that's a really stimulating way to
• 13:52
  work, you know, and I really have come to appreciate that,
• 13:58
  you know, like the challenges that it presents me, you know,
• 14:02
  as opposed to I'm coming up with the whole thing from beginning
• 14:06
  to end, you know what I mean? It's a different kind of
• 14:08
  struggle when you're working alone, when you're writing for
• 14:10
  yourself, It's a it's a totally different kind of like, I mean,
• 14:15
  you know, and sometimes I almost have to simulate the situation
• 14:19
  that I just described with reacting to other people sending
• 14:22
  me music. I always sometimes if this, if
• 14:24
  the thing doesn't come easily right away, like the the whole
• 14:28
  thing fully realized. Like those are those are amazing
• 14:30
  days when you get those songs that come to you like a record
• 14:33
  playing in your mind and you just have to then bring it to
• 14:36
  life. That's amazing.
• 14:37
  But more often than not, it's like you get this little kernel
• 14:40
  of a musical idea, a riff, a chord progression, whatever.
• 14:43
  You start playing around with it.
• 14:45
  Now, maybe you have a piece of music.
• 14:47
  OK, well, maybe you get an idea for what to say over it, or
• 14:52
  maybe you don't and it can take, it can take a while sometimes.
• 14:55
  And in those cases, I've sometimes had to almost wait to
• 14:58
  the point where I get so distanced from the music that
• 15:02
  that, you know, months go by or even years go by and you come
• 15:06
  back to it, Then you can almost approach it as if somebody else
• 15:09
  sent it to you. You know what I mean?
• 15:11
  So it's it's the the machinations that you have to go
• 15:14
  through sometimes, you know, are really like pretty far.
• 15:19
  You know, they're they're they're very varied.
• 15:21
  And but yeah, in this case, I said these guys, they're they're
• 15:26
  great musicians. They sent a compelling piece of
• 15:28
  music and I had the the luxury of just sort of saying, what is
• 15:32
  this making me feel it's. Great.
• 15:35
  It's a great position to be in. I don't know if you ever had any
• 15:37
  literary dreams, but maybe William Duvall Bradbury is in
• 15:41
  there somewhere. Because I'm a huge sci-fi nerd
• 15:44
  and this took me places like, you know, they're Alien and
• 15:48
  Alien Covenant. And even there's a great B movie
• 15:51
  from the 60s, early 70s that I love called Green Slime.
• 15:55
  Look it up. It's horribly great.
• 15:57
  And it's got like a funky Sly Stone kind of theme song.
• 16:03
  It's wild. And like astronauts go to Mars
• 16:05
  or Venus and they bring back a virus, a germ, and it like green
• 16:08
  slime covers the Earth. It's insane.
• 16:10
  I just spoiled it. But like, that's like the
• 16:14
  unintended consequences. That's like the like, you know,
• 16:17
  that's a thing we all live with in life.
• 16:19
  But I think like that's the the magic of storytelling is the
• 16:22
  what is the unintended reaction to something to a situation,
• 16:26
  right, Like and that's that's what makes it so compelling.
• 16:30
  But that's geek moment for me here on a few sips of coffee.
• 16:35
  Thank you for permitting me. Just like you said about getting
• 16:39
  sent music. I know you're like, again, lots
• 16:42
  going on again, King, Ultra, Mega.
• 16:46
  I talked to Mark and I know there's a record coming.
• 16:48
  He's diligently trying to finish it on the regular.
• 16:52
  You are back. There, I'm sorry, it's just like
• 16:54
  if you hear my cats freaking. Cats are fine.
• 16:57
  We love cats and dogs here. Got her.
• 16:59
  She's got her, her catnip boy, and she's just, oh, that's it.
• 17:04
  I came over. I may have to.
• 17:06
  Quickly. Just yeah, fine.
• 17:08
  We will be, we will be dealing with that and she gets really,
• 17:11
  really animated and maybe not the best for your audio track
• 17:15
  here, but. It's all good zoomies.
• 17:17
  Cats and dogs get the zoomies. It's fine.
• 17:19
  We do it. We we welcome all creatures to
• 17:23
  our show and our our pods and our our videos.
• 17:26
  You know, but like I was saying, really stoked about King ultra
• 17:29
  mega and you did a you know, an impeccable job there.
• 17:32
  And I know, you know, obviously it's been a time of covers, the
• 17:36
  Black Sabbath show, all these things.
• 17:38
  So like, you know, no stranger to that also.
• 17:40
  So, you know, really wonderful. We know about the kinship
• 17:43
  between the bands and and Jerry, you know, it's just at the Hall
• 17:47
  of Fame. So really wonderful for them.
• 17:49
  I hope that chains is next. I know people don't care about
• 17:52
  Hall of Fame's. You've been in Allison Chains
• 17:54
  for 20 years now in a few months, which we we referenced
• 17:57
  last time. And I know this not on the minds
• 18:01
  of you guys, but like I personally would be very
• 18:03
  gratified if you if you all got in.
• 18:05
  It would be wonderful. You know that.
• 18:07
  I don't think it necessarily moves the needle of your fans
• 18:10
  love you and the world knows your music and the world knows
• 18:13
  what you have all put down, especially these last 20 years
• 18:16
  with you coming in. So that's my personal.
• 18:18
  I'm wishing it into existence that you guys get the Hall of
• 18:21
  Fame nomination and nod. I think it would be right.
• 18:24
  I think it's only right. There's a big four of Seattle.
• 18:27
  Alice In Chains is one of them. And yeah, just the last couple
• 18:31
  of things. I know there's a lot going on
• 18:33
  and I know Jerry has made comments publicly about, like,
• 18:36
  writing in Next record. What else is going on with you
• 18:39
  personally? You know what a huge fan I am of
• 18:41
  your solo work. It really got me through the
• 18:43
  worst of times in the last six years and I know there was a
• 18:47
  live release and I would love you to do more like that.
• 18:50
  Or anything else you want to do. Is there anything else going on
• 18:53
  with your solo music or Duvall records or anything?
• 18:56
  Oh, for sure. I mean, what I'd really like to
• 18:59
  do at some point is like a fully realized proper studio album
• 19:05
  where it's just, you know, kind of a no, no stone unturned, kind
• 19:09
  of a kind of a situation like that would be wonderful to to
• 19:13
  make a heard like that where I get to take whatever time I
• 19:17
  need. I get to have as many, you know,
• 19:20
  crayons in the in the color boxes.
• 19:23
  I as I want and just get to really take the take the time
• 19:28
  and the effort explore different things, go down cul de sacs, hit
• 19:32
  dead ends, turn around, come back like the whole just the
• 19:35
  whole thing, you know, and then and then see how that is because
• 19:40
  I, I've I've that's one thing I have not had the, the good
• 19:45
  fortune to be able to do. And so having now put a record
• 19:49
  out under my own name and having done that in a way that is like
• 19:55
  you can't get any more solo than the one alone album.
• 19:59
  So that you know, that was that was that was by design.
• 20:04
  It was sort of like, OK, clean, clean start, clean slate and
• 20:09
  just getting it down and paring it down, distilling it to its
• 20:13
  absolute fundamental essence. And then that gives you a place
• 20:17
  to then. Build on so like a foundational
• 20:21
  thing. So now and and then and then
• 20:23
  obviously doing the live in the studio record was kind of a that
• 20:27
  was more of a surprise thing just because I got asked to do
• 20:30
  that that session and then, you know, got something together to
• 20:34
  do it and it was really great, but bit more of a placeholder
• 20:37
  and a kind of a a unique kind of outlier, you know, because it's
• 20:40
  like, oh, do a live to disk record.
• 20:42
  And so that was done super proud of that.
• 20:45
  But now I think it's time to go and do the full meal deal, you
• 20:49
  know, kind of just having the luxury to do that because, you
• 20:53
  know, comes with the fall. That was always a situation of
• 20:56
  having to do the best you had with, you know, do the best you
• 20:59
  could with what little you had. So records made on a shoestring
• 21:03
  are less than a shoestring. And, you know, situations where
• 21:06
  it's, you know, we got, you know, 3 days and 10 songs, you
• 21:10
  know, let's go in, let's go in and get this done, you know,
• 21:14
  and, you know, four hands on the mixing board and, you know,
• 21:17
  falling asleep at the board mixing, you know, just
• 21:20
  craziness, right? But, and, and the energy in the
• 21:22
  records, I think, you know, I, I think I think it gave the
• 21:27
  records of certain quality that I really like, but an immediacy
• 21:31
  and a kind of a, it's, it's real deal.
• 21:33
  But like, wow, just for once, to be able to not have any of these
• 21:37
  limitations that have normally been foisted would be pretty
• 21:42
  cool. You know, just to, just to have
• 21:44
  that experience. That would be kind of the
• 21:46
  biggest thing on the agenda for me.
• 21:49
  If I can make that happen, that would be great.
• 21:51
  Have no timeline on it whatsoever, but.
• 21:53
  Right on. I understand that is the desire.
• 21:56
  I also, yeah, oh, I bet, I bet you have a riff book and a, and
• 22:01
  a lyrics book and all the things and a riff, a riff catalog and
• 22:04
  recordings. I also attended the that New
• 22:06
  York show. We met there.
• 22:07
  I, I, I, I watched you with your family literally at my table was
• 22:12
  incredible. And they were beaming and as was
• 22:14
  I And like I said, I'll never have enough adequate words to
• 22:17
  say thank you for that record and that experience.
• 22:19
  And really it's one of my go to comfort records when there's
• 22:22
  discomfort and you can look around the world, there's a lot
• 22:24
  of discomfort all the time. But I'm working on it and I'm
• 22:27
  working on me. But like that record means so
• 22:29
  much to me and you mean a lot to me.
• 22:31
  And I'm really appreciative of your time.
• 22:33
  Last questions, always a wild card question.
• 22:35
  We are recording this on January 8th, David Bowie's birthday, who
• 22:38
  I know you're also a fan of. I've done the covers.
• 22:40
  I've heard you do covers. And you know he would pass away
• 22:45
  10 years ago on the 10th. Like just as quickly.
• 22:48
  Let me know you know favorite David Bowie core memory.
• 22:52
  Oh my gosh. Oh, man, there's, there's,
• 22:55
  there's, there's a lot, as you might imagine.
• 22:57
  One is being like 14 and, and I had just found out that my
• 23:06
  family was going to be moving from the Washington, DC area to
• 23:10
  it to Atlanta. And, you know, it was just, you
• 23:13
  know, that age. It's just such a such a
• 23:16
  unsettling thing. You know, I was leaving my
• 23:19
  friends and everything I'd ever known, and we went on this
• 23:23
  little vacation in in the summer leading up to the move.
• 23:27
  We went on a little vacation to to Mexico and it was sort of
• 23:33
  like a throw, throw the kids a bone, throw the family bone.
• 23:37
  Let's do this thing before we have to do this really huge,
• 23:40
  potentially upsetting thing. And I had a boom box and, and I
• 23:44
  had like a couple of cassettes that I brought with me on that
• 23:47
  trip and I was listening to them non-stop.
• 23:50
  And one of them was the Ziggy record, Ziggy Stardust.
• 23:53
  And I, I just, I played that. I wore that tape out and it was
• 23:57
  a dub from the vinyl LP. So I'd, I'd gone ahead and made
• 24:01
  this tape. And I mean, like that record
• 24:05
  became like a friend, you know, when I really needed a friend, I
• 24:09
  felt like it was just, there was something about it.
• 24:12
  There's nothing that I could literally, you know, draw like
• 24:17
  lines to or make explicit connections to the experience of
• 24:21
  this character or the experience of this writer to my own, You
• 24:24
  know, I was a 14 year old kid. I mean, but what it did give me
• 24:28
  was a kind of an atmospheric thing of just, there was,
• 24:31
  there's such a feeling of longing in that record.
• 24:34
  And there's such a, there's such a feeling of of kind of like
• 24:37
  this empowerment thing too. It's like, I'm going to, I have
• 24:40
  all of this alienation. I'm, I'm feeling so
• 24:43
  misunderstood, but I can make myself into whatever I want and
• 24:47
  I can win the world, you know what I mean?
• 24:50
  And, and even though that character ends up going through
• 24:55
  that whole arc and, and, and, and I guess losing from, you
• 24:58
  know, the standpoint of, of, of narrative arcs, it's still such
• 25:03
  a powerful thing. And I thought, wow, like this is
• 25:06
  I identified with it. I still do.
• 25:09
  And so it's one of those things where that's a core memory for
• 25:13
  me with regard to David Bowie's music.
• 25:15
  But obviously there's so many things.
• 25:17
  I mean, I've saw him several times and they were always
• 25:20
  really, really great shows throughout his career.
• 25:23
  So and what was cool about that is he was obviously such AI mean
• 25:28
  chameleons, kind of the overused word, but he was always he was
• 25:31
  always into something new. And so he was always bringing
• 25:34
  that on whatever tour he was doing.
• 25:36
  And, and right in the middle of of the kind of drum and bass
• 25:40
  period, kind of like 97 in 191997 era, kind of he played
• 25:46
  this acoustic show at a bar in Atlanta and I and I went and it
• 25:52
  was just Bowie and Reeves Gubrells on the stage with a
• 25:55
  couple of acoustic tars. And he kind of did this VH1
• 25:58
  storyteller deal where he was just taking questions and like
• 26:01
  it was, it was insane and so cool, man.
• 26:05
  Like, but obviously I've seen him several times with the full
• 26:07
  band and, and you know, just amazing.
• 26:10
  I mean, he an artist literally to the end, like the very last
• 26:13
  moment. I mean, when you when you can
• 26:15
  make your death a piece of performance art, you've really,
• 26:18
  you know, you have won the whole game.
• 26:21
  I mean, pretty amazing, amazing. And he's just one of yeah, he's,
• 26:25
  he remains a favorite. I I listen to those records all
• 26:29
  the time through, from throughout his career because
• 26:31
  he, there's a lot there. He really left quite, quite the
• 26:34
  body of work behind and, and many, many lessons of how one
• 26:38
  can conduct oneself, you know, through this business, through
• 26:41
  all the craziness, the trials and tribulations, you know, a
• 26:44
  lot of, a lot of great lessons, both artistically and I would
• 26:48
  say just more broadly, you know, in terms of the business itself,
• 26:52
  you know, So, yeah, just a great, great, great guy.
• 26:56
  I'm glad you reminded me as a 10th anniversary of his passing.
• 26:59
  It's that was quite a shocking day.
• 27:02
  And, and at the same time, it was kind of like, of course,
• 27:05
  dude, you know what I mean? Like you're going to bring the
• 27:07
  curtain down, you know, as much on your terms as possible.
• 27:10
  And he he did, he did that. So.
• 27:13
  Yeah. We we should all be so we won't
• 27:15
  all be as talented, but we should all be so lucky and self
• 27:17
  aware. He's incredible.
• 27:18
  I I still listen to Black Star. William, great to talk to you
• 27:23
  again. Congrats on this metal
• 27:25
  allegiance track. We look forward to more from
• 27:27
  King Ultra Mega, eventually, Alice In Chains and solo stuff.
• 27:30
  Thank you so much for hanging out with Go Skull today, man.
• 27:33
  Thank you, thank you. It's always a pleasure to talk
• 27:35
  to you. And and you know, I look forward
• 27:37
  to talking to you again when there's something to talk about.