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Replacement Theory · Why We Do What We Do

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do? Welcome
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  Speaker 1: to Why we Do what we do. I am your
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  Speaker 1: fear mongering host Abraham.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm your oh no, what about us host Shane.
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  Speaker 1: sometimes we specifically talk about really dumb things that people believe. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I think you know, we are as much an information
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  Speaker 2: podcast as we are a myth busting podcast, and so
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  Speaker 2: I feel today we're going to unpack a thing that
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  Speaker 2: people have gloonbed onto that you know, doesn't make any sense,
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  Speaker 2: and that is the great replacement theory.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll get into all that. And if you've
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  Speaker 1: never heard of it, then good for you. But yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I strap in, Yeah, yeah, exactly. Unfortunately, you will be
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: talk more about those things at the end of this discussion,
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  Speaker 1: but since we're here, we may as well wish everybody
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  Speaker 1: a happy autistic Pride Day.
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  Speaker 2: Love that it's go fishing Day, not the card game,
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  Speaker 2: the actual fishing, but I recommend just doing the card game.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I say I'd rather do the card game.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: International Panic Day.
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  Speaker 2: It's also International Picnic Day. I hope you don't get
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  Speaker 2: those two confused.
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  Speaker 1: A picnic panic ants and International Sushi Day. So a
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  Speaker 1: sushi picnic panic with fish because it's a fish fish,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: it's a fishing day.
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  Speaker 2: It's also National Cheesemaker Day, so a cheese Maker's Day,
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  Speaker 2: so make sure you know you keep your cheese out
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  Speaker 2: of the hands of those hants.
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  Speaker 1: Interesting, so much food going on here. Yeah. Relatedly, it's
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  Speaker 1: National Cherry Tart Day.
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  Speaker 2: Delicious. It's also National Splurge Day, so that's uh, splurge
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  Speaker 2: is a fun word.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's also like some like potentially gross word, but like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it's fine. It's Animal Rights Awareness Week. I support.
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  Speaker 2: I love that. It's also carpenter An Awareness Week, which
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  Speaker 2: goes right along with the International Picnic Day.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well they're not picnic ants. They're carpenters. They like
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  Speaker 1: to build stuff.
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  Speaker 2: They're building you a picnic basket.
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  Speaker 1: It is Learning Disabilities Week that goes along with the
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  Speaker 1: Autistic Pride Day.
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  Speaker 2: Now that I think about this, they're carpenter ants. Do
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  Speaker 2: you think that there was a Jesus carpenter ant?
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  Speaker 1: There definitely was. Yeah, there had to.
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  Speaker 2: Have been at least one, right, that was his occupation.
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  Speaker 2: It's National roller Coaster Week.
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  Speaker 1: It is Take your Dog to Work Week. A lot
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  Speaker 1: of people will love.
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  Speaker 2: That, yes, and it is a wobbly week sure.
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  Speaker 1: All right, So those are just a few things to
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  Speaker 1: celebrate on June eighteenth. I hope that you find some
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  Speaker 1: joy in whatever one of those or all of those
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  Speaker 1: that really speak to you in this day of acknowledgment
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  Speaker 1: and whimsy. But we have a less whimsical discussion ahead
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  Speaker 1: of us, because, as we said, we're talking about the
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  Speaker 1: great replacement theory. So in this discussion, we're going to
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  Speaker 1: unpack what this is, where did it come from, and
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  Speaker 1: why does it persist? We want to understand the conditions
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  Speaker 1: that gave rise to this nonsense.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're gonna definitely talk about like kind of
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  Speaker 2: the historical context, some modern implications, and its influence today
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  Speaker 2: because we're finding that it's showing up in all sorts
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  Speaker 2: of places, in all sorts of spaces that it really
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  Speaker 2: shouldn't show up in any of them. It should stay
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  Speaker 2: in a dark corner and stay there forever. But it
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  Speaker 2: keeps showing up in politics and all sorts of places
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  Speaker 2: that are causing a lot of problems for a lot
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  Speaker 2: of folks.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, so let's go ahead and get into a story here.
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  Speaker 1: Want to start with a little bit of story time,
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  Speaker 1: part true and part fiction, and we'll elaborate on which
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  Speaker 1: parts are which, but here's the beginning. So European colonizers,
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  Speaker 1: they had been trotting around the globe, killing and slaving
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  Speaker 1: and destroying various peoples all around the world, and in
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  Speaker 1: many places they were establishing themselves as rulers. So this
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  Speaker 1: is fact. This is a thing that happened.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. However, after World War Two, European colliningal rule began
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  Speaker 2: to transition back to data peoples of Africa and the
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  Speaker 2: Middle East, including a cataclysmic debacle referred to as the
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  Speaker 2: Partition of India, which would be a fascinating discussion at
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  Speaker 2: some point because that was incredibly painful for many many folks.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think as far as world history goes, because
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  Speaker 1: I feel like we do tend to be more sort
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  Speaker 1: of US and Western centric, but so much has gone
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  Speaker 1: on around the world that I think were global events,
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  Speaker 1: and I do think this is a really important one
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  Speaker 1: we'll want to get to at some point. So again,
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  Speaker 1: still factual, we're still saying things that happened, Yes, as
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  Speaker 1: this decolonization, this like removing ruling elites that are European
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  Speaker 1: from these other countries. That that's what we're talking about
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  Speaker 1: with decolonization. As that preceded, massive populations of African and
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  Speaker 1: Middle Eastern immigrants began moving into European countries such as France,
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  Speaker 1: England and Spain, so much so that they actually took
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  Speaker 1: over most of the electorate and government positions and eventually
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  Speaker 1: completely embedded their culture over top of the previous European
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  Speaker 1: culture that they pushed out and all the white people
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  Speaker 1: in Europe are gone.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Obviously that last part never happened. The decalonization part did,
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  Speaker 2: but the takeover did not. And that is ultimately the
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  Speaker 2: core belief and theory around great replacement theory is that
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  Speaker 2: folks are going to come in and they're going to
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  Speaker 2: replace the dominant culture, and there's gonna be all sorts
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  Speaker 2: of problems from their quote unquote.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, the fact that that never happened was not
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  Speaker 1: going to stop some very stupid pundits from claiming that
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  Speaker 1: that was happening or going to happen. And in fact,
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  Speaker 1: the reason that I used that exact story is because
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  Speaker 1: part of where this idea started was this fear of
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  Speaker 1: a huge influx of immigrants following the decolonization of those countries, right,
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  Speaker 1: And although there have been a lot of immigrants and
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  Speaker 1: asylum seekers refugees from countries who have come to Europe,
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  Speaker 1: they have not taken over they have not completely replaced
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  Speaker 1: whatever existing culture was there, but they have integrated into
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  Speaker 1: those cultures as immigrants tend to do right, And we
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  Speaker 1: did a whole discussion on immigrants. But I think again
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  Speaker 1: it's worth unpacking the history of this and then just
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  Speaker 1: dismantling it one part at a time because there's really
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  Speaker 1: nothing here. So the story, I think was just just
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  Speaker 1: helped show the line of reasoning that led to this
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  Speaker 1: prediction of what was going to happen that of course
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  Speaker 1: didn't happen, right, because it's it's completely wrong headed to
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  Speaker 1: begin with. But we want to set some context here
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  Speaker 1: so it will unfortunately have to talk about fascism.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, so fascism needs a scapegoat. It always does. It's
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  Speaker 2: always going to other people, it's always going to make
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  Speaker 2: people different than themselves. But by itself, fascism is a
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  Speaker 2: cannibalistic political orientation, so it consolidates its power by uniting
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  Speaker 2: people behind fear of a common enemy, usually somebody of
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  Speaker 2: a different country, race, you know whatever. And of course
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  Speaker 2: once the enemy are all gone, what ends up happening
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  Speaker 2: is fast you start killing each other. But there are
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  Speaker 2: a lot of people to have his enemies, so fascism
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  Speaker 2: kind of perpetuates in that regard.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll take it'll take a while to get to
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  Speaker 1: the point where all their quote unquote enemies are gone,
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  Speaker 1: and then they'll turn on each other. Sure, because they
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  Speaker 1: need fear in violence. That's all fascism is this fear
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  Speaker 1: and violence right now. To establish this fear and manipulate
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  Speaker 1: the minds of weak, gullible people, they generally will choose
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  Speaker 1: a group that is small enough that that group can't
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  Speaker 1: really rise up against the people who are who have
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  Speaker 1: authority and the authoritarians. And they also will generally want
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  Speaker 1: to pick a group that's distinct enough that they can
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  Speaker 1: be easily targeted. There's not really much more rhyme or
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  Speaker 1: or reason or thought to it than that. It's really
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  Speaker 1: just who can we victimize and get away with it.
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  Speaker 1: It's kind of the bully mentality, right, It's like, go
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  Speaker 1: after someone who can't fight back, who has no social support,
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  Speaker 1: just because you can get away with it.
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  Speaker 2: Right. Absolutely, to help make the threat real, they need
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  Speaker 2: to establish an agenda to the group who they're demonizing.
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  Speaker 2: So basically simply saying being afraid of a group is
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  Speaker 2: insufficient to inspire hateful action and and it's hard to
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  Speaker 2: garner support for their political agenda if we're just saying
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  Speaker 2: be afraid. So they need to have a specific thing
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  Speaker 2: to be afraid of.
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  Speaker 1: So what they do, a really common idea or tactic
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  Speaker 1: that they use then is to threaten that or present
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  Speaker 1: that it's a threat that this enemy group that they've targeted,
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  Speaker 1: whoever that might be, is going to take They're going
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  Speaker 1: to take away things from the inpower group that they're
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  Speaker 1: to take away the things that they hold dear. They're
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  Speaker 1: going to take their jobs. They're going to install their
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  Speaker 1: own religion and cultural practices and make the people who
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  Speaker 1: are there before them religion illegal and their cultural practices
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  Speaker 1: taboo and illegal. And they're going to expunge the cultural
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  Speaker 1: practices and values of the people who are currently living
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  Speaker 1: in that space.
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  Speaker 2: I want to comment on that just for a second,
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  Speaker 2: because there is a historical precedent for like some of
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  Speaker 2: the features of what you just described. It's it's possible,
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  Speaker 2: like you know, a new a new empire may step
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  Speaker 2: in and make parts of the previous culture illegal. We
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  Speaker 2: saw that happen in conquering empires where they would do that.
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  Speaker 2: You saw situations where they would make certain religions illegal
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  Speaker 2: and we're not talking about immigrants, we're talking about empires
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  Speaker 2: and colonizers that we're doing this so the people that
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  Speaker 2: were in power, we're doing this thing that they're saying
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  Speaker 2: that we should be afraid of doing, right, Like, So
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  Speaker 2: it's I think it's really important to point that piece out.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're actually skipping ahead a little because we will
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  Speaker 1: come back to that, but that's okay, Sorry, No, it
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  Speaker 1: was great because I do think that that is a
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  Speaker 1: point that should be made multiple times because if you
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  Speaker 1: leave with nothing else from this discussion, that is actually
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  Speaker 1: one of the points I think is important for people
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  Speaker 1: to leave with is understanding that.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So the idea that we're talking about
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  Speaker 2: here is pretty old though, right. Arguably, most major religions
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  Speaker 2: have fear of other of the other baked into them,
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  Speaker 2: like into their own religions. Although the Abrahamic religions put
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  Speaker 2: this fear on megasteroids, like it is like amplified by millions. Right,
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  Speaker 2: Even the story about the crucifixion of Jesus has an
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  Speaker 2: element of xenophobia to it. I mean, it's arguably like
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  Speaker 2: one of the things that many anti Semitic arguments, well
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  Speaker 2: like they'll actually use that as like, well, actually it
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  Speaker 2: was this group that crucified Jesus and all that. You'll
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  Speaker 2: hear those arguments in that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you'll see a big theme of all of
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  Speaker 1: this as anti Semitism. And we'll get into that, of
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  Speaker 1: course after we get into Samats. All right, we're back.
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  Speaker 1: The whole point so far up to this point has
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  Speaker 1: been that fascism and this idea of being able to
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  Speaker 1: manipulate people through fear by identifying that some other group
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  Speaker 1: of people as an enemy. And there are more modern
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  Speaker 1: iterations of this fear that can be traced back to
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  Speaker 1: at least as far as Charles Pearson in eighteen ninety two.
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  Speaker 1: He was a British Australian author who wrote that in
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  Speaker 1: the near future, white people would quote wake to find
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  Speaker 1: ourselves elbowed and hustled and perhaps even thrust aside by
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  Speaker 1: people's whom we look down upon. End quote. Of course
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  Speaker 1: that never happened, and that was over one hundred and
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  Speaker 1: thirty years ago. But even in his description, it's just
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  Speaker 1: so dumb and so backward and so wrong.
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  Speaker 2: The irony.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, first of all, he's an immigrant, but white,
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  Speaker 1: so like apparently that's okay, and that like the space
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  Speaker 1: is just going to be so completely filled with people
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  Speaker 1: and then like people whom we looked down upon. I'm like,
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  Speaker 1: what that's.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah coming from a British Australian man, Like, let that
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  Speaker 2: soak in for a second, right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, He's basically like, I'm racist, and I'm I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to be surrounded by people against whom I'm racist and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: that makes me unhappy. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, boo, okay, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it's ridiculous, You're stupid, joke.
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  Speaker 2: Uh huh. Now, he wrote a book called National Life,
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  Speaker 2: and character depicted a particularly apocalyptic view of integrating different
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: races into society, spawning an entire genre of books warning
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: against the dangers of immigrants or even just allowing other
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  Speaker 2: non white races to exist. It's like a super fascist
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  Speaker 2: Nazi handbook.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean a lot of what followed was
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  Speaker 1: inspired by this, some of them. I mean, it's not
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  Speaker 1: that he kicked off this whole thing, but like he
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  Speaker 1: did sort of inspire that genre, which influenced more people
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  Speaker 1: to write about more similar things. And so a lot
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  Speaker 1: of these people that were going to be describing here
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  Speaker 1: in a moment cite these as influential, as influential on
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  Speaker 1: their path to fascist hatred.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: So the next word, Edward Drumont or I think this
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  Speaker 1: is French. So. Edouard Drumont was a French journalist and
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  Speaker 1: the leader of an anti Semitic movement in France. He
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  Speaker 1: wrote articles in the late eighteen hundreds that espoused the
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: idea that Jews would destroy French culture, which, of course
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  Speaker 1: exactly is what happened. There's no more French culture.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, we don't have French cuisine. Yeah, we don't
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: have French movies.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: France is gone.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, France is gone. It's been gone for decades. Ridiculous. Now,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Italian poet and Benito Mussolini supporter Philippo Tomaso Marionnetti vocally
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  Speaker 2: asserted that fascism in war were the only way to
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: quote cure the world.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, very gross. And it's I think it's Marinetti,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: not Mariannetti.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: That's a Marinetti. Sorry, my apologies, Philippo Tomasso Marinetti.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, a very Italian name, I think, yes, yes,
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  Speaker 1: all right, So, inspired by Charles Pearson, the first one
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: that we mentioned back in the eighteen ninety two, I think.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: American white supremacist lawyer Madison Grant wrote a book in
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen called The Passing of the Great Race in
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: which he warned that America's great quote unquote Nordic stock
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: was in decline, and so, yeah, he wrote his book,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: and Evenler cited his book as being influential. If that
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: tells you anything about the kind of crowd these people
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: are running with here.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the circles they keep, you know. Now,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: of course, Nazism strongly embraced the fear of the other,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: specifically targeting Jewish people and culture as a threat to
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: German people, although they also took aim at other marginalized
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: groups such as people disabilities and LBGTQ plus people among others.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Like this was like they were not indiscriminate and who
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: they targeted as who they othered and tried to take out,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: but specifically the Jewish folks were the ones that they
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: really pinned down as like the primary enemy if you will.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So, just to be clear, their Nazism also strongly
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: embraced this replacement hypothesis idea and just applied it to
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Jews as their target. But it's the same, the same
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: thing going on here. Right next, we had Jeen rass
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Speel again, another French author here, who published a book
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three called The Camp of Saints. And
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: this is a racist dystopian novel about the downfall of
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the white race and is one that is very commonly
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: cited as one of the most important and influential and
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: sort of modern white supremacy movement things.
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  Speaker 2: Right now. William Luther Pierce was a neo Nazi, white
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  Speaker 2: supremacist and political activist who wrote a book, a fictional
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  Speaker 2: book under the pseudonym Andrew McDonald in nineteen seventy eight
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: about the US government being overthrown, and it was called
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: The Turner Diaries. This book has been called quote the
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Bible of racist of the racist right, as opposed to
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: the regular Bible. I guess it's like, you know, that's
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: the whole thing, but part two. Yeah, so this is
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: like kind of like you'll see that this is the
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: go to This is the Cooper Book of White Supremacy.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Oh god, that that was. That was That was a
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: nerdy nerdy reference also shots fired.
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  Speaker 2: I think no, no, no, let me be clear, I like
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: the Cooper book. That's I am saying, like as it
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: represents what it does. It represents like kind of like
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  Speaker 2: the seminal text for a belief system. So yeah, let
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: me be clear, I actually really like the Cooper book.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: I think it's important. I don't want to dog that
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: and in not comparing them to anybody on the right side,
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  Speaker 2: what I'm saying more so is that this book, the
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Turner Diaries, is a seminal work, like a central work
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: to the theoretical orientation that is white supremacy.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Fair okay, yes, all right. So we've been sort of
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: tracing the timeline of these racist authors espousing white supremacy
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: and publishing these books over the last century and a
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: half or so. But the modern realization of this conspiratorial
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: fear mongering is mostly credited to Renaud Camouse or Camus,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: another French author, What is going On in France? Uh huh,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: who published a book in twenty ten and a follow
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: up in twenty eleven. The first one, even though I
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: took French and can read it, okay, I could not
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: read that title very easily. The second one is simply
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: called legram Rumplacement, which of course translates to the great replacement,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: and that is where the term the great replacement theory
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: was coined as far as like sort of the modern
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: interpretation of that or iteration.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Sure, so this is also called white genocide or simply
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: great replacement. The idea, if you haven't gathered already, is
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: this idea that the white culture will be consumed by
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: non white people and completely obliterated. This almost always, like
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: ninety nine percent of the time, has some key components,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: which includes A, it's aggressively pro Christian, B it's anti Semitic.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: C it's very very white, and d it is violent.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: And this is a very fragile, insecure idea that's dependent
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: on the idea that there is such a thing as
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: white culture and that there is some monolithic thing that
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: is non white culture, and that the non white culture
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: is hell bent on destroying the white culture. Like the
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: idea is that anybody who does not belong to quote
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: unquote white culture is actively and aggressively trying to dismantle
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: white culture and not dismantle, destroy and obliterate and eliminate
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: white culture.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's essentially the sort of implication of what
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: they're always describing, is this this war like approach to
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: just to to culture and that there's like a thing
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: that's called white culture and a thing that's not which
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: of course is not really is not real, but we'll
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: get into that as well right now. So this whole idea,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: this is a great replacement theory obviously, and we've talked
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: about this before. Calling it a theory is being incredibly generous.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Sure it's described as a conspiracy theory in a way,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: it is, but it's almost more like a propaganda campaign
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: that works really well and manipulated a lot of people.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: So it's some abomination combination of like a conspiracy theory
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: and a propaganda campaign. And I get that probably a
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: lot of propaganda campaigns are specifically meant to like foster
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: the idea of a conspiracy, but I don't know, it
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: really is more about manipulating and controlling people and getting
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: them to support like give you power than it is
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: really rooted in the idea that this is actually going
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: to happen. Like, I don't know how many of the
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: people actually buy their own bullshit and this I know
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: sure some of them do, like the diehard white supremacists
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: obviously do I oh, well not obviously, I think that
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: they do. But I think in a lot of cases,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: it's really just a lever to pull to manipulate people
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: into supporting you.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean the way you can look at it
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: is like, imagine if birds aren't real. Decided that seagulls
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: were going to take over pigeon culture, and so then
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: they told everybody to go kill every seagull. And then
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: once every seagull was gone, then they said, oh, we
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: need to continue to protect pigeon culture because every other
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: bird will take over pigeons. And then you just started
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: mass executions of all the other birds that weren't pigeons.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Wow. No, that was an impressive analogy there.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I got them off the dome, my friend. Sometimes
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: they come to me, you know, sometimes I find amuse.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: You know. Now, Embedded in this line of argument is
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: that non white people will outnumber and outvote, or have
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: at least enough sympathizers to outvote the interest of white
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: society and will then eliminate all traces of that white
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: culture and probably all white people as a result.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: At the very least, they will come to power such
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: that white people in white culture are made insignificance and
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: have no power or autonomy. I think is at least
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: one other way that this might be iterated again, this
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: is just their arguments, this is their right nonsense, of course.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: But the great irony here, as we discussed, is that
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: European colonizers are the ones responsible for almost all versions
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: of genocide about which they're afraid. The Nazis. Colonization, manifest
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: destiny are just like some examples of how like if
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: you could call anything white culture that kind of is it,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I think, right? And it has been the thing going
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: around destroying others. So there's not that many examples, I think,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, there are examples, but I think the vast
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: expanse of colonization and what it has done I think
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: shows that like these are the perpetrators here who are
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: then accusing everyone else of doing the thing that they're
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: actually doing.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Right. One of the most I think poignant examples is
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: that like the Dutch, specifically Dutch trading companies wiped out
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: entire civilizations for nutmeg. Yeah, for nutmeg, not like golden
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: treasures and like you know, I mean not that any
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: of it's ever justified, but for nutmeg.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Like you know, a worse version of cinnamon. Well, I
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: think on that here's an ad for nutmeg. All right,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: we shall continue describing what's going on here with this
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: replacement theory.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, out of a great fear of white folks
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: being replaced and obliterated and culture being taken over, racist
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: xenophobic figureheads spearheaded the eugenicist Pioneer Fund and policies that
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: established a racial quota system for immigrants in the early
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: nineteen hundred, as well as for sterilization programs that scholars
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: estimate impacts more than seventy thousand people of color. So
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: you know, they used this to kind of go to
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: institute significantly impactful and problematic policies.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there were actually several states in the United States
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: that had forced sterilization programs, and they were largely born
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: out of, I mean, if not entirely born out of
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: a eugenics movement designed to distill and weed out genetic
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: variability that did not meet a certain thresholder standard. And
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: again there's a great irony here in that, like genetic
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: diversity actually greatly enhances the strength and viability of a
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: species or group of anything, really, and that by trying
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: to distill or i guess remove the variability that might
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: be a part of other ethnicities and races, actually greatly
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: weakens the people of a given culture or nation. Yeah,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: and they're already apparently quite weak and pathetic, otherwise they
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be doing this in the first place.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: But right, we don't have to cite all the examples
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: of all the weak, inbred white kings that existed and
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: how they couldn't they could barely rule their their territories,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: you know, like that's a story for a different day.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: They all because they all they were like, we gotta
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: stay white, and then they were just like weak wafy
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: milk toast nerds.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and genetically just on the end of the stick,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: if you will.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: All right, So again I think it's worth pointing out that,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: like the perpetrators of violence here who they really are,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: because a lot of times the fear of mongering is
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: that like, these people of color are going to come
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: in and they're going to do violence against white people,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: or if they're not people of color, then like Jewish
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: people or whatever, a people of some faith or just
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: some other it just has to be another group they're
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: going to come in and they're going to do violence
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: against us. And the irony here is the people actually
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: doing the violence. So here are some examples of people
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: who were doing a lot of violence and doing so
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: in the name of and citing specifically the fear of
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: being replaced as their motive for doing these violent things. So,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: and this is not a comprehensive list, this is just
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: some examples of some that happened. In twenty eleven, Anders Bravik,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I think is how you would say that a Brevic
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Brevic Okay of Norway targeted a youth camp, killing seventy
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: seven people, referencing these replacement fears as one of his
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: reasons for doing this. In twenty fifteen, neo Nazi, Republican
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: and white supremacist Dylan Roof now only thirty one, so
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: he was only I guess, oh that have been fourteen
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: years ago. Man, he's a teenager twenty one. Yeah. Anyway,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: so he massacred eight people at the Emmanual African Methodist
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Episcopal Church and Charleston, South Carolina during Bible study, again
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: with evidence suggesting that one of his motives was fear
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: of this great replacement thing. Yeah.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: I just want to comment real quick on Andrews Brevoc too,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: because like he did a lot of damage. But something
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: that people don't know is that he would often sit
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: in his computer chair online and just poop his pants
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: as an adult, on purpose because he didn't want to
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: leave his computer. So he's just you know, just know
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: that about him when you think if his name strikes
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: fear like upsets, you just know that he pooped his
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: pants on purpose because he didn't want to get up
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: and use the bathroom, because he was that lazy.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: So cool, all right.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: So in Pittsburgh in twenty eighteen, a synagogue shooter blamed
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Jewish organizations for facilitating immigration. In twenty nineteen, a mass
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: shooter at a christ Church mosque in New Zealand explicitly
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: cited the Great Replacement as a motive for the actions.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, We're not done. In twenty nineteen in El Paso, Texas,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: another neo Nazi, white supremacist Republican Patrick wood Crusius, killed
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: twenty three people injuring about twenty more and cited the
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: fear of the Hispanic invasion as his motive, which there
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: were some specific talking points out of the administration at
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: the time that were in the list of things that
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: he was referencing yep. And twenty twenty two, in a
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Buffalo supermarket in New York in a largely black neighborhood,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: a white supremacist Republican shooter murdered ten people, with evidence
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: that he had an obsession with this idea of replacement theory.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Yep. In twenty seventeen, at a Unite the Right rally
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: in Charlottesville, Republican protesters carried Nazi swastikas and chanted you
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: will not replace us, and quote the Jews will not
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: replace us. And eventually a counter protester was killed by
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: one of the alt right protesters who ran them down
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: with their car.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a list of people who are doing violence,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: who again are doing so in the name of and
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: fear of this great replacement thing. Now, are all these
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: mass murderers reading obscure nineteen hundred textbooks or novels or
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: that one or multiple French authors racist treaties? Unlikely? Right?
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Like how this? I doubt that these are people who
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: like found these in a library and that's sort of
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: what set them on the path. Sure, these are global,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: fragile incell ponds who are being played by major media
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: outlets such as newsmax On and Fox News. In particular,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Taco Carlson has openly used the term great replacement dozens
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: or maybe even hundreds of times across various segments. I
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: did see a tally count of like whatever it was,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: but then I didn't write it down and I didn't
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: want to go back and find it. But it was
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: a lot like it was. He said the great replacement
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: over and over and over and over again.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: It's a consistent bullet point.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah it is. And although thankfully he doesn't have as
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: large of an audience anymore, as far as I know,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he's still used that idea.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Former Republican Congressman Matt Gates and Beavis look
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: alike tweeted in support of Carlson, saying, at Tucker, Carlson
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: is correct about replacement theory as he explains what is
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: happening to America. Quote and of course, Steve Bannon, Alex Jones,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: and many people in the Trump administration, especially Trump himself,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: have loudly proclaimed the dangers of non white people. I mean,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: And the thing is is they're not just they're not
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: saying it's they're saying it suddenly in some ways, but
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: they're not saying it suddenly in some of their actions
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: and policies. Right, So, like there are those dog whistles
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: that go out, but then there's also you know, travel bands,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: and like if you look at where the travel bands
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: are coming from, it's not for any other reason other
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: than the people have more melanin in their skin, you know.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: And so you'll find that that is time and time
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: again actions not just what they're saying, but that what
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: they're doing is supporting these super racist policies.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: And this is not to i think, miss the points
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: that like the phrase great replacement or some version of it,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: has been actively used out loud by people with really
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: big megaphones. Yeah who, Like, that's why these people cite
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: and use that term is because it is one that
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: they It was brought out of this sort of obscure
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: alt right community and went sort of mainstream, and people
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: like Tucker Carlson were a major reason that that was
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: able to happen. But you're also right that a lot
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: of times it is the things that they do that
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: essentially they carry with it the same implication even if
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: they're not exactly calling it that, and they are again,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: just like old fascism playbook, they just need to other
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: somebody so they will accuse them all kinds of things
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: in order to create fear about them. They accuse immigrants
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: of being criminals. They claim that Democrats are trying to
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: bring in people who will vote for in along Democratic
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: party lines. They impose, as you mentioned, travel bands on
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: countries that largely have non white populations. There's all these
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: different strategies that they use that specifically say like white people,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: well here, non white people non welcome here, right, are
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: not welcome here. And that's essentially like what their actions
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: sort of do. And again, although right now it is
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: politically expedient for them to be very pro Israel and
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: this current situation that is going on globally, this is
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: an anti Semitic movement, like and I think that once
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: it is not as expeditious to be so pro Israel,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: they will go right back to being anti Semitic again.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know, it's like drug wars
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: as an example. I know we talked about this on
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: the show before, but the drug the war on drugs
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: was an example of a failed policy that was absolutely
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: done because it was othering groups of people when statistically
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: we know that most drug charges, like severe significant drug charges,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: not like you know, cannabis, we're talking meth we're talking
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: about fentanyl. I'm gonna tell you right now, it's not immigrants,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: it's not people that, it's not non white people, it's
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: mostly white people. Yeah, most of the drugs that we're
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: dealing with, like all the quote unquote influx of drugs
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: from other countries, it's not coming from other countries. It's
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: being made here. It's being made in meth labs and
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: labs by mostly white folks. So just it's important to
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: know that when we start talking about this and how
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: other ink can make this really dangerous. Like you know,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: you say something like, oh, this group of people is
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: bringing in drugs from our country. Now you've targeted an
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: entire population of people, and now you have incited violence
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: against the population of people. And well, I mean you'll
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: see as it continues going forward, how people are influenced
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: by this. Now, let's talk about Twitter for a second.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Once Elon Musk bought Twitter, which was already a hellscape
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: of hate speech and just terribleness, they essentially removed all
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: policies that would in any way downplay the enophobic rhetoric.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: And Facebook did the same, and now you can't go
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: on to those pages. You can't go on to those
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: platforms without just being exposed to just an abundance of
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: hate and a lot of it's citing great replacement theory
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: as a big part of where this language and where
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: like the talking points are coming from.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, I think it's because it's such a
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: an easy to understand points to make. I think people
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: can latch onto that. It doesn't require very many words.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: The idea is pretty simple and like it's it's easy
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: to communicate, and so I think that's one of the
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: reasons it has been such an effective and widely used
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: tactic is just because it is so easy to sort
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: of communicate and get buy in from this.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: And it taps into a different fear. Like I think
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: it taps into a different fear than just being like
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: like other people. It taps into like a natural fear
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: that people have of like not being useful or not
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: or being obsolete. Like nobody nobody wants to feel like
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: they aren't useful for someone. Nobody wants to feel like
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: they could be replaced at any time. People want to
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: feel special. So like it makes sense that it's like
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: a It's like there's a unique fear there that people
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: go oh, like oh, you're telling me that I am good,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: I'm I don't matter, and that doesn't feel good. So
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: that that's an easy that's an easy like ational appeal
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: for folks.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and what could also make you feel specials? Targeted? Ads? Ah, Okay,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: we're gonna keep talking through. I mean, we're sort of
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: at the point now where we're explaining a bit like
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: why this works in the extent to which it works,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: And sadly, the rhetoric has worked remarkably well around replacement theory.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Surveys indicate fairly widespread belief in this, with sixty percent
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: of French and roughly thirty three percent of Americans like
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: one in three having concerns tied to great replacement fears.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Even those who don't actually really know about this theory,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: like they've never maybe noticed or heard those words explicitly,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: they'll still fall victim to it, with a whopping eighty
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: two percent of Trump supporting voters citing immigration as one
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: of the top concerns and one of the reasons to
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: vote for Trump. And I think they knew this pretty
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: well going in into this campaign, that it was an
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: easy lever to pull to manipulate a lot of people
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: who aren't really paying attention and don't know any better.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Right. What's more, it's a vicious cycle. Fear about non
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: white people fuels anti immigrant policies, xenophobic rhetoric, and racial
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: tensions globally, which stokes more fear about immigrants and generates
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: more xenophobia and hate. Like it's a snake eating its
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: own tail, and it just is causing a lot of problems.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Now, we've been criticizing this, I think, the whole time,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: but it's worth like really digging into and debunking this idea,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: the ideas of great replacement, they don't really make any sense,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: and they have no basis in reality anyway, almost no
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: basis in reality. And we say almost no basis because
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: arguably this is exactly what colonizers did, particularly those who
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: came to America, what they did to the indigenous population,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: which was essentially to wipe them out and take over
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: the country. So like, it is a thing that has happened,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: although it's largely happened by white people. So I'm not
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: saying that there is that means that they're like this
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: idea holds any water. But you could point to an
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: example of one culture coming in and completely pushing out
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: another and that is white people and colonizers, right, doing
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: that to other people, not that being done to them.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Right. My favorite response to all of this, and we'll
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: get into some of this more about, Like my favorite
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: response to all of this is that when people say
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: they're afraid to like that white people will become the minority,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: you ask the question, well, what's so wrong about that? Like,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: is there a problem with how minorities are being treated?
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Is that your concern? And maybe you should evaluate that question, right,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: because if you're so worried about it, then maybe you
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: should evaluate how we're treating people in general. So that's
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: like one of my favorite discussion points, Like you should
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: think about that.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: If you're concerned about being treated the way that minorities
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: are treated, then you're acknowledging that minorities are being treated
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: in a way that you would not want to be treated. Yeah,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: and you're also one of the people perpetuating that.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So who ooh, all right. So otherwise, like
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: you know, as we're talking about this, these ideas don't
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: hold any water at all. Great replacement theory does not
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: hold any water. So, for one thing, Christian ideologies that
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: they're trying to protect are not shared universally among white people.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Only allowing white people and pushing for white people to
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: have tons of children in no way guarantees or is
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: even likely to result in people who share theirse enophobic
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: hatred and violence. It's like it's it's one of those
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: things where it just it doesn't make any practical sense
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: when you really think about it.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they're essentially and I'm about to get
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: into this, but they're talking about like the problem of
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: this monolithic, homogeneous group of non white people, and I'm like,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: that implies that white people are a monolithic, homogenist group,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: and they're right, absolutely not. Now both of us are
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: very light skinned people, and I both of us strongly
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: disagree with everything that these people say, thank you and belief,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: and so like, I don't know that you are protect
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: and even what you think you want to protect. But again,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: the motive here isn't actually based on any line of
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: reasoning irrational. It is just to motivate people to give
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: them power. So it does make sense that they wouldn't
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: necessarily think very much about their argument and would just
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: make an argument that would rile people up to right
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: and it does so in line with that whole thing that, like,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: white people are not a homogeneous group of like minded people.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: There's no reason to think that non white people are
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: necessarily liberal or would support liberal policies that are anti
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: this like conservative right wing sort of thing, or that
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: they would anyway attempt to try and impose their own
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: cultural practices into primarily white spaces. Like, there's just no
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: reason to think that, Like, they're not a homogenous group.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: They're also not a homogenous group. There are a lot
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: of different different ethnicities and cultures, and like, within a
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: single family, you will have people who vary widely across
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: the political spectrum. And these are not only people who
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: are of the same background and ethnicity, but like are
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: related to each other who cannot even agree. Like, so
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense to expect that they'd all be
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: this Like if the conspiracy theory here was that Democrats
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: are trying to bring in all of these non white
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: voters to support Democrats, Like, what makes you think they're
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: going to support Democrats? Right, Like, just be like, there's
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: just no reason for that that just because they're like
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: more friendly to people immigrating, doesn't mean that those people
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: are then going to be liberal.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, exactly, And actually that's we see that quite
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: often to that point, Like savvy Republican politicians are well
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: aware of all of this, and they have done fairly well,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: specifically with Latino voters who tend to be very Catholic
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: and often have conservative values, especially depending on where they
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: have either emigrated from or their values.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: So, like you'll find in Miami specifically, you'll find a
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: lot of conservative Cuban families because they may have emigrated
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: from Cuba and they don't they do not want to
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: return to any form or way of socialism, right, right,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: So they'll vote more conservative, more republican Republican because a
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: lot of talking points tend to be that socialism is
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: a more liberal democratic thing. And you'll see those conversations
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: happen a lot. It's really fascinating, Like I've had I've
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: had a lot of conversations with folks in Miami, and
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: it's like you'll see that kind of viewpoint come up,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: especially if it's like first generation immigrants from Cuba.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very much. So that there's this, uh, the experience
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: of like being really afraid of what was being called
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: I guess you call it left. I mean, you know,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: it's yeah, it.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: Was the version of communism that exists in Cuba, you.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Know, yeah, which was largely like authoritarian and actual implication.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: But right, again we've sort of had that discussion as well,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I think, or we will again in the future, who knows. Yeah,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: we made our point, all right. Also, this construct of
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: race is very nebulous, Like what even is a race?
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: This is very vague at best, And what is necessarily
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: white or non white has more gray area than not,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: if you will, So, what would it even mean to
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: fear non white people if you can't even identify who
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: those people are? Like? Right, I think you could very
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: easily make the case that there is no such thing
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: as race. Like even if you were to look at
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: people who tend to have low levels of melanin in
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: their skin and tend to have fair skin, you have
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: a pretty wide variety of what their skin still looks like. Yeah,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: And why would that matter at all? Like in terms
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: of what your skin looks like, it doesn't. So just
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: even trying to segment the world into white and non
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: white by itself doesn't make sense because there is no
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: such thing as that.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you really like wanted to narrow
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: it down, like you'd have to look at great replacement
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: theory being like almost like specific countries, like you'd have
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: to go like and even then and that's all made up.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: All the borders are made up, so it doesn't matter.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: But like it's one of those things where it's like
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: you if people really bought in the great replacement theory,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: like as somebody who is Irish, I would be very
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: concerned if I started, like, you know, losing my Irishness
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: to German populations. Like that would also be like in
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: line with great replacement theory if you were really looking
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: at it. But it's just really white versus everybody else,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: which is you know, xenophobic and racist. Now, this theory
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: also posits that there are other races that the other
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: races that are non white or violent and will directly
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: harm white people, but the evidence actually shows the opposite,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: where minority groups and immigrants are much more likely to
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: be the victims of crime and violence than to perpetuate it,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: and that white supremacists are the ones actually committing racially
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: motivated mass killings. And we saw many examples just above,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: and you know we can we won't get in the
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: examples of like you know, police brutality and those systems
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: as well. There are lots of examples of white on
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: any non white violence that it's just it's unreal the
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: number of examples we could share.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, going back to just one point,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: I wanted to make that that we hadn't said understanding
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: again that like this is not necessarily the idea of
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: replacement theory wants to treat non white people as if
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: they're this homogenous group that will not support conservative policies.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: And again it's really just about manipulating people into an extent,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: creating fear and rallying people behind your cause. There's also,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: of course, just embedded racism here. But even like George W.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Bush in a twenty seventeen speech gave this response where
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: he said, quote, our identity as a nation, unlike other nations,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: is not determined by geography or ethnicity, by soil or blood.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: This means that people of every race, religion, and ethnicity
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: can be fully and equally American. It means that bigotry
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: or white supremacy in any form is blasphemy against the
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: American creed. End quote.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: So I'm sorry, let me let me hold on, hold on.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: That was from George W. Bush.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: George W. Bush. Wow, I know, see, we are in
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: the cursed timeline.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: What is happening.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: This is someone who I vehemently disagreed with when he
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: was in office, and looking back on it, think like it.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Wasn't so bad. He wasn't bad. The guy we got
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: now is wild well. And this is also the same
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: guy that like decided to like start a war in
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: the Middle East and was incredibly violent about it. So like,
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: you know, it's it's maybe he's maybe he's like remorseful.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, he's he's complicated, but not like
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: the simpleton that currently is has control over things. So yeah, yeah,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know. We long for boring news, I think,
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: is the moral of that story.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, Also I wanted to point out something
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: real quick as we were talking about this. I think
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of you'll find that a lot of the
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: language that we talk about with great replacement theory is
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: white versus non white. And we've been saying that as
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: we've been going through because that is essentially what the
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: core theory of great replacement theory is is that you've
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: got white folks and you've got everybody else who's going
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: to take over. And we know that race and ethnicity
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: and all that is not binary. So like when we
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: say white and non white, we're only referencing specifically what
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: great replacement theory is kind of citing. We know that
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: there are better terms for that, right, Like you've got white,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: you've got bipock, you've got indigenous, You've got lots of
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: different kinds of discussions to say, you know, non white,
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: because we're not saying that it's white and everybody else.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: But I just wanted to point that out as we
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: were kind of talking about this, it's we know that
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: it's more complex and more spectrumed and more diverse than
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: what great replacement theory is saying.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, very much. So we were trying to not
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: actually espouse this idea that there is such a thing
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: as white and non white, that that by itself is
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: a flaw in the argument they yes, they're even trying
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: to make, much like ads are a flaw of podcasts
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: always ads. All right, let's get into our sort of
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: final wrap up here in this discussion. And I think
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: you know, we like to stick to science as closely
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: as we possibly can, and I do think that some
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: amount of talking about things critically, like doing some critical thinking,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: although as not an exactly an experiment, it is a
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: way of trying to deconstruct an argument and understand all
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: the points of that argument. But to say that there
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: is no evidence in support of great replacement, I think
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: that that is scientifically accurate. There is no evidence for
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: this at all. But I also think that that's too gentle.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: That is too gentle for what's going on here. The
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: great replacement theory is unbelievably being stupid. It is mind boggling,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: leafing stupid. It is monumentally dumber than a bag of
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: rocks king stupid. It is just through and through wrong.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: It is dumb wrong. And take that as you will
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: in terms of the people who bought into it. But
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: the theory itself is very, very unbelievably stupid.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So you might be asking, as we kind of
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: get to the end of this, like what can we
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: do about this? Well, we can do stuff like this.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: We can educate We can educate people on the historical
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: misuse and the fallacies of the theory, and that's crucial.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: We can educate people on what race means and what
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: diversity does. For populations. We can advocate for awareness and
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: cultural sensitivity and actively counter replacement theory, so specifically narratives
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: of media and politics, and hold media and social media
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: companies to higher standards and hold them accountable for their
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: role in the spread of this hate speating misinformation and
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: their spread of disinformation. We also need to recognize societal
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: risks and actively combat the spread of hateful rhetoric. We
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: also have to recognize our own biases and our implicit biases.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: We have to know our own learning histories and how
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: that influences the way that we see things. We have
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: to look at our communities and how to educate our
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: communities and and and the concerns of our communities, because
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: many times great replacement theory is used as a means
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: to really exploit people's actual fears, you know, like people
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: communities are worried about losing workers, Like farming communities are
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: worried about losing crops and the and the and the
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: little money they make from their crops. They're worried. They
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: have legitimate community fears that are nothing to do with race,
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: and everything to do with society and structure and systems,
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: and those systems are perpetuated by people that are in power,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: and we have to look at that and evaluate that
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: and understand that the communities and the people that are
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: being taken advantage of are also true victims in this too.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: You know, you've got non white populations, bipop populations who
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: are victims of violence and aggression. But you've also got
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: white populations who have legitimate fears in their communities, who
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: are not being taken care of them by their politicians
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: and by the people that they're putting in office, and
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: they are also victims of this because they are being
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: duped into believing that somebody else is the enemy when
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: the people that are in office are often the ones
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: who are directly violating their rights. You've got people that
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: are being taught to vote against their own interests, and
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: it is happening time and time again. So there are many, many,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: many victims in this that is really important to bend down,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: and almost none of them are politicians.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: That's true. And as we said, like this is essentially
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: a propaganda campaign, and so it is taking people who
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: are able to be hoodwinked by the propaganda machine and
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: who then are sort of getting squeezed and moved like
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: ponds when it is not in their best interest. But
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: they sort of have tricked people into voluntarily going that route.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: They've they've talked them into giving power to people who
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: then take away their the liberties of the people who
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: they're saying should be afraid of other people, right, you know.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: And so it is in a way sad to think about,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: like the people who have been so sucked into this,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: who like they don't even gain anything from this, right,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: all that they're doing is handing power to people who
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: then take things away from them. Yeah, all the while
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: they're believing that like it's for it's the best for them,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: which again.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Is it's it's unfortunate.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's insane and a little hard
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: to hear. Yeah, it's it's just it's a it's a situation.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: And so I think, you know, landing on the great
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Replacement theory is empty headed rhetoric that combines deeply rooted racism,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: anti semitism, and xenophobia. It remains dangerous not just on
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: extremist fringes, but increasingly in mainstream politics and media, and
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: so vigilance and education are necessary to counter its influence
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: and prevent further harm, and you know, thinking about why
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: people believe this, why this persists, and I think we've
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: talked about why it persists. It allows people to grab
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: power from the people they manipulate. That's one of the
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: reasons exists. Why does it work? Again, I think that
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: the main issue here is that, like, the message is simple,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: is a simple, easy message, and they will frequently cherry
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: pick examples of things happening where they'll then use that
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: to try as evidence, a quote unquote evidence to support
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: their position. So, for example, you know, they talk about
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: immigrants being criminals when they are much more likely to
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: be the victims of crime than to perpetuate crime, and
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: that the crimes are actually being mostly perpetuated by white
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: citizens of the United States in this particular example, right,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: But beyond that, like, they'll cherry pick the handful of
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: examples they can find where it was an im agreat
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: who committed a crime, and although in the proportional scheme
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: of things, that number is insanely small and relative to
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: again the other people who are committing crimes, they'll then
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: use that example to fuel their arguments. And so like,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: all you need is the one big example, and then
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: everybody can start to believe what you're saying, even if
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: like that's a total outlier in terms of like the
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: actual data and the numbers that are happening, right, And
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: so that that I think is why people buy it
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: is because all they need is one or two examples,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: and then to just need one story, you need one story,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: and you need to hear the overall message a lot.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: And that's what Tucker Carlson did, Like he just said
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: it over and over and over again, and have actually
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: I thought we should probably do an episode on this,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: because there's science that shows that just hearing a message
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: repeatedly can influence you to start believing that message, even
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: when you know that it's wrong, Right, even when you
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: know that it's wrong, if you hear it enough, you
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: can start to question and start to believe it. And
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: so the people who don't even know that it's wrong
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: are even more susceptible to this. And so they go
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: about simply the cherry pick outlier examples and they say
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: the same thing over and over and over again, and
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: that's just propaganda. One oh one, Like that's how it works.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: You know, it's easy, simple messaging with a couple of
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: terrifying examples. That they can cite, and of course are
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: going to exaggerate and blow out of proportion as well. Right,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: that is what gets people riled up in believing it.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: Well, you know we've been talking, We've been wanting to
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: do this one for a while and have sort of
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: held off for a while. But I'm glad we finally
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: dug into it because it just needed to happen. And
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: it's just it's one of those things where it's like
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: we can kind of just dig a grave throat in there,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: pon the room, on the dirt that we cover it with,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: and say this is this is dead and gone and
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: we'll never need it again.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, even if we do that, it won't go away.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: So but it is one of those ideas that we
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: can relegate to the trash heap of history because it is.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Dumb, right, Yes, agreed?
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Cool? All right, Well, then we have some things to
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: recommend to you. If you are joining us for the
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: first time, you may not know that at the end
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: of each of our discussions we recommend something, usually unrelated
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: to our topic, which will be the case today. First,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: we need to get through some credits and some information
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: for you. But the recommendations are fun, so stick around.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: If you were like hearing credits and like all right,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: time for me to sign off, the recoundations are worth it.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: I think I agree. Okay, So, as we mentioned, if
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: you support us on Patreon, you will get early episodes,
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: add free episodes, behind the scenes content, all that sort
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: of thing, and it helps us be a podcast, which
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: we really appreciate. And in addition, I will read your
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: name every week during our full length episodes. So if
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: you head order Patreon, that really helps us out. Consider
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: doing that if you can, if you like to, if
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: you like what you hear and you just want to
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: be a part of that team of people which includes Mike,
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: m Meghan, Mike t, Justin, Kim, Brad, Stephanie, Brian, Ashley,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: Kira and Charlie. Thank you all for your support.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: You're the best.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: In addition, you can support us by heading over to
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: our merch store and buying something cool that has our
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: name and logo on it and that will make you
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: feel all good inside. Of course, you can just go
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: tell a friend, maybe go just start texting people links
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: to our episodes that you think would be cool, or
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: just putting in your headphones while the episode is plain,
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: and just have them listen all the way through. And
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: if that's happening right now and you're hearing this, hi,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: thanks for listening hello, although it seems unlikely otherwise. Of course,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: leaving us a glowing review and a five star rating
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: definitely helps out. But if none of those things, make
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: sure you're just subscribes, that you catch all of our
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: subsequent episodes. And yeah, that's what I have to say
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: about supporting us. Thank you so much to my team
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: of people without I cannot without whom I cannot make
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: this show. Shane, thank you for recording with me today anytime.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Writing and fact checking from Shane and myself. We also
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: have our social media coordinator, Emma Wilson. And the person
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: who does the music and makes our voices sound like
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: voices is Justin who does a really good job with
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: all the sound things.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah we both sound like rfk oh god in voice only.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, the tone and message is quite different. All right,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: So I think that that's we're good to move on
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: to recommendations unless I'm forgetting something.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: No, I think we're ready.
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: All right, let's do it right, recommendations.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: I'm recommending an album. It just came out at the
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: time of this recording. It came out a couple days
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: ago and I have not stopped listening to it. And
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: it's highly anticipated because the band put out this phenomenal
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: record a couple of years ago and everybody really loved it.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: And that is Never Enough by the band Turnstile. This
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: is one of the more interesting records that's come up
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: in like punk and hardcore because it's such a departure
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: from their original sound. They are a hardcore band at
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: their core, and they put out glow On, and glow
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: On's got some interesting things, like some really catchy melodies,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: some like synth and some drum machines on it, and
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: everybody's kind of like, is this hardcore? And I'm gonna
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: tell everybody right now it doesn't matter. But Never Enough
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: is the follow up, and I gotta say it is
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of fun. I think more of the songs
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: on it are actually hardcore songs than on glow On,
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: But I do think that there's like some interesting like
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: soundscapes on it, and like there's some really cool interludes
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: that are putting together. Hayley Williams from Paramore is on
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: the album as a guest spot as well, and it's
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: it's great. It's such a fun listen, Like I don't
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: know how you could listen to it and be mad, Like,
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: you can't frown when you listen to this album, Like
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: you if you try to cross your arms and frown,
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: it's like kind of like making the mean face and
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: saying the word bubble, you can't. You can't say that
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: with a straight mean face. So I think everybody should
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: go listen to it. It's called Never Enough by Turnstyle,
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: And if you've never heard Turnstyle, go listen to glow On,
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: Go listen to Time and Space, go listen to all
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: of it. Like all of it is good, but glow
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: On and Never Enough are really cool, like kind of
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: like sister albums, if you will.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just recently listened to glow On, so I'll
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: have to check out Never Enough and see how it goes.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting, such a fun lesson.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: This band is very new for me, even though they've
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: been around for a while, so I'm sort of just
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: getting my feet wet with it, if you will.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: And so yeah, nice dudes. We played with them years
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: and years ago before they got big, and like we
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: played a couple of shows with them in Florida, and
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: they were so nice and so it's cool to see
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: them like really blow up like this. It's great.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, I'm recommending a book. This is
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: the first book in a trilogy. I don't think I've
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: recommended this book, but I have recommended the TV show
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: which is based off of this book. And this book
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: is called Wall. The TV show is called Silo. Okay,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: so this is my author, Hugh Howie. I don't think
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: I've recommended this book before, but I'm ninety nine percent
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: shore I've recommended the show. I will call this a
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: dystopian sci fi book, I guess, very loose. I mean,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: this isn't a spoiler because this is like right in
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: the beginning, But the whole idea is that the entire
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: civilization exists in this gigantic underground bunker that's like one
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: hundred and thirty stories or something like that, but totally
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: subterranean because the world has become an unlivable place outside. Sure,
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: that's essentially the setup, and from there you have very
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: interesting dynamics that play out inside of this and many
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: revelations and things to learn, and eventually in the second book,
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: you get into a lot more of the backstory of
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: how this came to be in the first place, which
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: is I'm in the middle of that book now. So anyway,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Wool I think does a really great job standing by itself.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Really good book, and if you're into dystopian sci fi stuff,
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: then I think people will enjoy this. And it has
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: a really nice or really strong lead female protagonist, which
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: I think is also not as common and a lot
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: of dystopian sci fi so great character name is Juliet
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: or Juliet. So anyway, check out to Wohl if you're
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: interested in some dystopian sci fi reading.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just bought the whole set, so I'm excited
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: to check that out. Yeah, Like, because I'm the kind
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: of person like once I buy one and like read it,
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: I've got to finish the story, Like I did not
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: want to finish Dune, but I did. Yeah, and so
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to get into this one. That's cool.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the first book is great. Like I said,
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: I haven't finished the second one, so I can't necessarily
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: speak to it as a comprehensive series or even as
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: the comprehensive second book, but at least the first one
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: I think is great, so a lot of people I
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: think would enjoy it.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: It was on banned books list, if that tells you anything.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I do think it has something to say
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: about a ruling with an iron fist. There's a huge
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: amount of societal commentary baked into this that I think
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: doesn't feel heavy handed because it makes a lot of
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: sense in the context of the story, right right, that's
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: fair cool? All right, Well, if you would like to
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: tell us your thoughts on Great Replacement or Turnstyle or
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Hugh Howie's books, we're happy to hear those things. You
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: can tell us about them directly if you email us
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: at info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com. You can also reach
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: us on the social media platforms or other things. And then,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: as we mentioned, you could support us various ways, which
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: we definitely appreciate. But I think that that's all we
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: have to say about this for now. Go forth and
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: educate people about the incorrectness of replacements, this great replacement idea, yes,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: and white genocide because it is dumb and wrong, yes, agreed,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: And don't do violence. Violence is bad.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Don't do violence.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, anything you would like to add or
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: that I forgot before we wrap this one up.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: Shane, Nope, I feel good on this one.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you all for listening.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: This is Abraham and this is Shane.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: We're out to yea. You've been listening to Why We
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Do What We Do.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: going to wwdwwdpodcast dot com. Thanks for listening, and we
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: hope you have an awesome day