Transcript

Sharri | 9 September · Sharri

0:06
Speaker 1: Thanks, James. Good evening. Tonight, our hero Bondi cop, Cesar Barraza,
0:11
Speaker 1: took down the gunman. No bulletproof vest, no phone and
0:16
Speaker 1: three bullets left. Our exclusive story in a moment. Also
0:21
Speaker 1: on the show tonight, Andrew Hastie is live after Pauline
0:24
Speaker 1: Hanson refuses to back down from the cartoon that calls
0:28
Speaker 1: him a traitor. I'll get his response. And US commentator
0:32
Speaker 1: Dave Rubin on the Lindsay Clancy case and the campaign
0:35
Speaker 1: against Erica Kirk in the year since her husband's brutal murder.
0:41
Speaker 1: But first, I can tonight reveal the greatest untold story
0:46
Speaker 1: from the Bondi terror attack. The true bravery of the
0:50
Speaker 1: police officer who finally took down both alleged shooters and
0:56
Speaker 1: how he came to be at the site of the massacre.
0:59
Speaker 1: The story of Detective Senior Constable Cesar Barraza is inspiring.
1:04
Speaker 1: We tell it for the first time in our book,
1:06
Speaker 1: Bondi Terror. It was quiet at the Bondi police station,
1:11
Speaker 1: nothing much happening on the low-key Sunday afternoon of 14th
1:15
Speaker 1: of December 2025. Cesar had been transferred to Bondi just
1:20
Speaker 1: six weeks earlier. It was his last shift before taking
1:25
Speaker 1: annual leave and he was looking forward to to a
1:28
Speaker 1: quiet night. He walked into the station kitchen, made himself
1:32
Speaker 1: some nachos, and as he was eating dinner, a call
1:35
Speaker 1: came through on the police radio. Possible armed offenders. Shots fired.
1:42
Speaker 1: Cesar waited to hear confirmation, and then his colleague, Constable
1:46
Speaker 1: Scott Dyson's voice, came through. I think I've been shot.
1:53
Speaker 1: Cesar didn't waste another moment. He didn't take his body-worn
1:57
Speaker 1: video camera. He didn't take his mobile phone or even
2:00
Speaker 1: stop to put his bulletproof vest on. He didn't take
2:03
Speaker 1: any spare pistol magazines. He didn't tell anyone what he
2:07
Speaker 1: was doing. He just ran. And the duty officer was
2:11
Speaker 1: also running out the door. Cesar didn't know the location
2:15
Speaker 1: of the shooting or that it was even at a
2:16
Speaker 1: Hanukkah festival. But he followed the sounds of the gunshots
2:21
Speaker 1: and ran in the direction that people were fleeing from.
2:25
Speaker 1: Within a minute, maybe two, Cesar reached the area near
2:29
Speaker 1: the Bondi Pavilion and he saw two men armed with
2:33
Speaker 1: long-arm weapons firing at police, at his colleagues. He didn't
2:40
Speaker 1: know and couldn't see at that time whether any civilians
2:44
Speaker 1: had been shot, but he knew Constable Dyson had. Cesar
2:49
Speaker 1: took cover behind a tree. He would have liked to
2:52
Speaker 1: have been closer, but it was the most substantial place
2:56
Speaker 1: to have some cover near the bridge. He thought that
2:59
Speaker 1: it was a big enough tree. Initially, the gunmen were
3:03
Speaker 1: facing away from him into the festival. They had no
3:08
Speaker 1: idea he was there. Cesar took aim, a single clean shot.
3:12
Speaker 1: His first shot killed Sajid Akram, who went down straight away. Now,
3:20
Speaker 1: here's that moment captured on footage that we obtained during
3:24
Speaker 1: our research for our book. So that was the first
3:35
Speaker 1: the gunman knew of Cesar's presence. And after that, he
3:39
Speaker 1: became a target. Now, as you can see, and as
3:42
Speaker 1: you would have seen in that clip, Cesar was initially
3:45
Speaker 1: standing behind the tree. But then the footage shows Cesar
3:49
Speaker 1: dressed in ordinary clothes, crouching and kneeling behind the tree
3:53
Speaker 1: as he exchanged fire with Sajid Akram's son, Navid. And
3:59
Speaker 1: over the next minute or so, Cesar continued shooting in
4:02
Speaker 1: a prolonged firefight with Navid. And you can see that
4:06
Speaker 1: in this footage. Don't move!
4:32
Speaker 2: Don't move!
4:40
Speaker 3: Hey! Get down!
4:55
Speaker 2: Get.
5:08
Speaker 1: Navid had been moving and ducking, but then briefly, for
5:11
Speaker 1: just a split second, he exposed himself in the small
5:14
Speaker 1: gap between the top of the stairs and the bridge.
5:17
Speaker 1: Cesar saw his chance and fired. In our book, we
5:22
Speaker 1: write that Cesar later told friends he felt no fear
5:26
Speaker 1: during the firefight and no nerves. He wasn't shaking. He
5:30
Speaker 1: had trained for this moment. He was on autopilot. The
5:33
Speaker 1: thought of missing, he told friends, didn't even cross his mind.
5:38
Speaker 1: He had faith that he'd make the shot and make
5:42
Speaker 1: it he did. Both attackers were down seven minutes and
5:46
Speaker 1: 40 seconds after the first shot. Cesar had entered the
5:50
Speaker 1: gun battle carrying one magazine containing 18 rounds and no
5:55
Speaker 1: spare ammunition. He fired 15 shots. When the shooting was over,
6:01
Speaker 1: just three bullets left. And here's what unfolded after Cesar
6:06
Speaker 1: took down the second shooter, Navid. After spending about an
6:29
Speaker 1: hour helping secure the scene and identify victims, Cesar was
6:33
Speaker 1: removed from the immediate crime scene because of his involvement
6:37
Speaker 1: in shooting the attackers. It meant he'd be subject to
6:39
Speaker 1: the standard critical incident process. He returned to Bondi Police Station,
6:44
Speaker 1: where his abandoned dinner was still sitting there. The nachos
6:49
Speaker 1: was cold. He ate about half. Now, Cesar is a
6:54
Speaker 1: Seventh Day Adventist Christian. when it was time for him
6:57
Speaker 1: to move stations. He prayed to God to place him
7:00
Speaker 1: in a location where he'd be needed. He also asked
7:04
Speaker 1: his parish priest to do the same. He started at
7:08
Speaker 1: Bondi just weeks earlier. He happened to be rostered on
7:12
Speaker 1: for the night shift on December 14. He was starting
7:17
Speaker 1: his annual leave the very next day. And what's even
7:21
Speaker 1: more coincidental, or you might think it's fate, He'd recently
7:25
Speaker 1: been issued with a Glock 17, which is a longer
7:28
Speaker 1: version of the gun that police officers routinely carry. And
7:31
Speaker 1: I'm told it provides better accuracy and offers more rounds
7:35
Speaker 1: of bullets. Well, he would need both of those features
7:40
Speaker 1: that day. Cesar is also experienced and confident with a
7:45
Speaker 1: firearm and has more training than the vast majority of
7:48
Speaker 1: New South Wales police officers. He practices shooting once a
7:52
Speaker 1: month at the Police Pistol Club. He does well at
7:55
Speaker 1: the New South Wales Police yearly live fire training. And
8:00
Speaker 1: he once won a medal in his category at the
8:02
Speaker 1: New South Wales Police Games. After the massacre, Cesar told
8:08
Speaker 1: friends that he felt that God was guiding him that day.
8:12
Speaker 1: He wasn't out of breath when he arrived at the tree.
8:15
Speaker 1: He felt that God was with him. He had faith.
8:20
Speaker 1: I am personally in awe of Cesar, of his bravery,
8:26
Speaker 1: of his heroism. And what's more, he's modest. He doesn't
8:30
Speaker 1: want the attention. It's why his story hasn't been told
8:33
Speaker 1: until now, until we went looking for our book, which
8:38
Speaker 1: I encourage you to order because it has so many
8:41
Speaker 1: incredible stories, more on Cesar and others like it. Stories
8:47
Speaker 1: of Australian heroes who risked their lives to do the
8:50
Speaker 1: right thing, to stand up to hate. And I love
8:55
Speaker 1: Cesar's story because he dropped everything without even stopping to
8:59
Speaker 1: put on a bulletproof vest. He ran towards the danger
9:04
Speaker 1: to save lives. It was Cesar who stopped the shooting.
9:09
Speaker 1: And for that, he's owed our eternal gratitude. And as
9:17
Speaker 1: I said, his full story is in our book. One
9:22
Speaker 1: Nation has been targeting Liberal MP Andrew Hastie politically. And
9:26
Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson has posted to her ex-account a cartoon where
9:30
Speaker 1: Hastie is called a traitor eight times. And Pauline Hanson
9:35
Speaker 1: tonight in a fiery interview with Chris Kenny said she
9:39
Speaker 1: didn't believe Hastie was a traitor, but she won't take
9:43
Speaker 1: the cartoon down. And while Pauline Hanson may not have
9:47
Speaker 1: directly called Hasty a traitor, she doesn't think he is one.
9:52
Speaker 1: This hugely popular cartoon does describe him as just that.
9:57
Speaker 3: Traitor? Why are they calling you a traitor?
10:21
Speaker 1: Andrew Hastie has served in Afghanistan not once, not twice,
10:25
Speaker 1: but three times. Of course he's not a traitor. He's
10:29
Speaker 1: one of the finest conservatives in the Liberal Party and
10:32
Speaker 1: a future leader. Hastie says that as a result of
10:36
Speaker 1: this campaign from One Nation, he's now been threatened and
10:39
Speaker 1: abused by their supporters. He's decided it's enough and he's
10:44
Speaker 1: fighting back. And Andrew Hastie joins me now live from Canberra. Andrew,
10:49
Speaker 1: thank you for your time. Look, today you called on
10:51
Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson to take down a cartoon where you were
10:54
Speaker 1: called a traitor. Well, here's what she told Chris Kenny tonight.
10:57
Speaker 5: I encourage people, if you want to go and have
11:02
Speaker 5: a look at it yourself, please go and look at it.
11:03
Speaker 5: Please explain hasty for hasty. So, anyway, I'd encourage people
11:07
Speaker 5: to go and have.
11:07
Speaker 1: A look at it and make up their own minds.
11:09
Speaker 2: But do you own the words?
11:09
Speaker 6: I'm not going to withdraw.
11:10
Speaker 3: Well, you own the words.
11:11
Speaker 2: I am not going to.
11:11
Speaker 7: Do you own the words, though?
11:12
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't.
11:13
Speaker 2: Do you own those words? I did not say the words.
11:14
Speaker 2: Do you say he's a traitor? You did not say them,
11:17
Speaker 2: but your cartoon did. Chris, do not keep going on
11:19
Speaker 2: badgering me. I'm telling you. Excuse me, Pauline. No, I
11:22
Speaker 2: didn't say the words. I'm trying to ask you a
11:23
Speaker 2: simple question.
11:23
Speaker 5: I'm not calling him a traitor to his country, which
11:27
Speaker 5: he made that statement, that I never said that.
11:33
Speaker 1: So, Andrew, she says it's satire, she isn't taking it
11:36
Speaker 1: down and she's even directed people to go look at it.
11:39
Speaker 1: What's your response to her comments tonight?
11:43
Speaker 2: Well, I said she was a lying coward today and
11:45
Speaker 2: I stand by those words. I also think she's taken
11:47
Speaker 2: the weak option. Today I gave her the option of
11:50
Speaker 2: owning the words or deleting the cartoon. She's done neither.
11:53
Speaker 2: She's shown herself to be weak, glass-jawed, and I think
11:57
Speaker 2: both of those things disqualify her as a future Prime Minister,
12:00
Speaker 2: which is what she claims to be. So I'm not
12:03
Speaker 2: standing back at all. I've made my position very clear.
12:06
Speaker 1: She said tonight with Chris Kenny that the cartoon is satire,
12:09
Speaker 1: that you should toughen up, that you're making a mountain
12:12
Speaker 1: out of a molehill.
12:15
Speaker 2: Well, that's just ridiculous. The word traitor has a very
12:18
Speaker 2: specific meaning in the context in which it was used
12:20
Speaker 2: in that video eight times. And, you know, I've had
12:24
Speaker 2: all sorts of abuse from people who've seen that video
12:28
Speaker 2: and beforehand, actually. And I've had to have security upgrades
12:33
Speaker 2: to my office and my house. So this is a
12:35
Speaker 2: very serious matter. And I'm not backing down. And that's
12:39
Speaker 2: why I call her a lying coward.
12:40
Speaker 1: I just want to get a bit more detail on that.
12:43
Speaker 1: So you're saying the abuse that you've received from One
12:46
Speaker 1: Nation supporters has led to a serious security incident?
12:51
Speaker 2: Not a security incident per se, but I've been identified
12:54
Speaker 2: for upgrades to my home and my office. And I've
12:58
Speaker 2: had Home Affair Department officials through both those locations to
13:02
Speaker 2: look at the ways that they can improve my security
13:04
Speaker 2: and my family, who I spend a lot of time
13:05
Speaker 2: away from.
13:06
Speaker 1: By One Nation supporters?
13:09
Speaker 2: Well, people who were very exercised by the issue that
13:12
Speaker 2: she raises in that video, which, by the way, was
13:16
Speaker 2: authorised by her. So, again, she's just taken the weak option.
13:19
Speaker 2: And I think Australians can see what kind of leadership
13:22
Speaker 2: she would offer as a Prime Minister.
13:26
Speaker 1: So you are still calling for her to take down
13:28
Speaker 1: the cartoon. Are you considering legal action?
13:32
Speaker 2: I'm not interested in legal action. I just want her
13:35
Speaker 2: to either own the cartoon or take it down. And
13:40
Speaker 2: like I said, she's shown herself to be weak. Meanwhile,
13:43
Speaker 2: she's got lick spittles like Rowan Dean coming out and
13:48
Speaker 2: minimising it, calling it satire when I remember very clearly
13:51
Speaker 2: he was crying rivers for Gina Reinhart when the ABC...
13:56
Speaker 2: played a satirical thing about her, which I agreed with
13:58
Speaker 2: him at the time, by the way. I think that
14:00
Speaker 2: should have been taken down. It was an appalling video.
14:02
Speaker 2: But he's shown himself to be hypocritical tonight by backing.
14:04
Speaker 1: In this Please Explain cartoon. OK, let's not criticise my
14:07
Speaker 1: own colleagues. Rowan Dean is a colleague of mine, a
14:10
Speaker 1: friend too, so let's not criticise him on air.
14:13
Speaker 2: Well, he was a friend as well.
14:14
Speaker 1: And I don't want to get sidetracked with the hypocrisy
14:18
Speaker 1: with Gina Reinhart, unless you do want to go there.
14:20
Speaker 1: I mean, do you want to go there with Gina Reinhart?
14:23
Speaker 1: I mean, are you saying that Gina, as a One
14:25
Speaker 1: Nation donor, is behind this campaign against you?
14:30
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. I'll let other people
14:32
Speaker 2: make their judgements. My point was simply that people.
14:34
Speaker 1: But you've just brought Gina Reinhart into it, so do
14:36
Speaker 1: you think she.
14:37
Speaker 2: Is behind this? Yeah, and I think the... Well, I
14:39
Speaker 2: think the video that was played by the ABC... of
14:43
Speaker 2: Gina Reinhart was appalling and should have been taken down.
14:46
Speaker 2: I was simply highlighting that there are people on this
14:50
Speaker 2: television show, well not show, but channel, who have argued that,
14:55
Speaker 2: but tonight made the opposite point. It's a double standard.
14:58
Speaker 1: I mean, the broader issue is, you know, One Nation
15:01
Speaker 1: is targeting you in canning. You're a strong conservative. So
15:05
Speaker 1: do you believe them when they say that their aim
15:07
Speaker 1: is to unseat the Labor government?
15:10
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question. how are they going to
15:13
Speaker 2: do preferences down the ballot? Are they going to preference
15:17
Speaker 2: Albanese ahead of me? That's a decision they'll have to make.
15:21
Speaker 2: But certainly after raising $ 5 million to fire the liar,
15:23
Speaker 2: I find it really ironic that they're spending a lot
15:26
Speaker 2: of time and energy trying to unseat good conservatives like me. Now,
15:30
Speaker 2: I'm more than happy for One Nation to run, but
15:32
Speaker 2: when you start calling me a traitor, when you start
15:34
Speaker 2: attacking me personally and turning your supporters against me, well,
15:38
Speaker 2: guess what? I will go all the way to the end.
15:41
Speaker 2: And it will be very, very costly for Pauline Hanson.
15:45
Speaker 1: You're saying it will be costly, but you've said you
15:47
Speaker 1: don't want to take legal action. So, I mean, it
15:48
Speaker 1: does sound like you are considering it.
15:51
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not considering legal action. Legal action is something
15:55
Speaker 2: that you do when you're, you know, looking.
15:58
Speaker 1: To spend lots of.
15:59
Speaker 2: So how will it be costly? Well, look at this
16:03
Speaker 2: right now. We're having a public conversation about this. And,
16:07
Speaker 2: you know, the last thing she needs is me, highlighting
16:11
Speaker 2: all her weaknesses as a leader. Today, a failure to
16:14
Speaker 2: take responsibility for her actions.
16:16
Speaker 1: Right, the political cost. Look, one of the reasons One
16:19
Speaker 1: Nation is targeting you is because you testified against Ben
16:22
Speaker 1: Robert Smith. You're arguing that you did this because you
16:25
Speaker 1: were subpoenaed, you were legally required to testify, and if
16:29
Speaker 1: you didn't, you'd be found in contempt of court. Is
16:32
Speaker 1: that right?
16:33
Speaker 2: That's right. That's right. Exactly right. I, and along with
16:37
Speaker 2: more than 20-odd SAS combat veterans were also subpoenaed and
16:41
Speaker 2: they gave evidence under oath as well. And so the
16:42
Speaker 2: question for Pauline Hanson, again, are they traitors? Are they
16:45
Speaker 2: traitors to their country as well? Not backing down, Shari.
16:49
Speaker 1: But it was more than a subpoena, wasn't it? I mean,
16:51
Speaker 1: the court transcripts show that you agreed to questions from
16:55
Speaker 1: Arthur Moses, that you had given information and comment to
16:58
Speaker 1: Chris Masters concerning SAS operations in Afghanistan. You were a
17:02
Speaker 1: source for their war crime story.
17:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had come to me several times. They actually
17:08
Speaker 2: came to me and placed me in Siachow, which is
17:11
Speaker 2: one of the missions in question. So they had me
17:15
Speaker 2: in location before I even knew they were writing the story. So,
17:19
Speaker 2: you know, as a public figure, sometimes you don't get
17:21
Speaker 2: choices here. And you know what? I'm not resiling from
17:26
Speaker 2: what I did, by the way. I'm standing by my testimony,
17:29
Speaker 2: which I gave under oath before God and just as
17:33
Speaker 2: Pesanko declared me a straightforward witness in his judgment. My
17:37
Speaker 2: point now is that shouldn't be the reason for a
17:41
Speaker 2: political party to weaponise by evidence against me and other
17:46
Speaker 2: veterans who have given evidence as required by law.
17:51
Speaker 1: I think the issue is that the argument you've put
17:53
Speaker 1: forward is that you were subpoenaed, you were legally required,
17:57
Speaker 1: but then you did admit in court to being a
17:59
Speaker 1: source of Chris Masters and Nick McKenzie. And even as
18:03
Speaker 1: I understand it, the proposition from Arthur Moses in court
18:06
Speaker 1: was that Nick McKenzie was a friend of yours. You
18:08
Speaker 1: accepted that.
18:10
Speaker 2: I didn't accept that. I actually said a friend of sorts.
18:13
Speaker 2: You're never friends with journalists, Shari, as As you know,
18:15
Speaker 2: I've been a source for you in the past.
18:17
Speaker 1: Well, I've got the transcript here.
18:18
Speaker 2: It's tested our relationship.
18:19
Speaker 1: Well, that is true and I do understand that. But
18:22
Speaker 1: I've got that quote here. Arthur Moses says, I don't
18:25
Speaker 1: want to speculate on Mr McKenzie's loyalty, but do you
18:28
Speaker 1: accept the proposition that he is a friend of yours?
18:31
Speaker 1: You said, sure, if you want to call it that.
18:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, precisely. And I think I followed up maybe a
18:37
Speaker 2: paragraph later by saying that, you know, with journalists, you
18:40
Speaker 2: never really treat it as a friendship. It's a transactional relationship.
18:45
Speaker 1: He's also referred to Nick McKenzie in articles as a
18:47
Speaker 1: moral champion and a rising star. You said you did
18:50
Speaker 1: have a relationship of trust with him over five years.
18:53
Speaker 1: You went on 60 Minutes in 2019 when the allegations
18:56
Speaker 1: of war crimes first broke. Let's have a look at
18:58
Speaker 1: that clip.
18:59
Speaker 2: It's important for the regiment that if these rumours are true,
19:05
Speaker 2: then we take action and we move on and we
19:09
Speaker 2: account for ourselves. But if they're false, then the regiment
19:13
Speaker 2: is cleared and we get on with the job.
19:16
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you did the wrong thing, certainly not
19:18
Speaker 1: saying you're a traitor, but it's not as simple as
19:20
Speaker 1: you responding to a subpoena, is it, when you were
19:23
Speaker 1: clearly a source for the stories against Ben Robert Smith?
19:28
Speaker 2: Well, Shari, I don't see what point you're making here.
19:31
Speaker 2: I'm more than happy to stand by what I said
19:33
Speaker 2: in 2019. I'm happy to stand by what I said
19:35
Speaker 2: in 2022. It doesn't change the fact that Pauline Hanson
19:39
Speaker 2: has called me a traitor eight times in one of
19:43
Speaker 2: her videos, which she authorised, and I'm not backing down
19:46
Speaker 2: And what she's done today is shown weakness as a
19:48
Speaker 2: leader so we can go back over the past. Look,
19:51
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be here on your program if I was
19:53
Speaker 2: concerned that you might. A little surprised you've gone there,
19:56
Speaker 2: but whatever. I'm happy to talk about it.
19:58
Speaker 1: Well, this is the issue at the heart of why
20:01
Speaker 1: she's called you a traitor. And many Australians are furious
20:05
Speaker 1: at how Ben Robert Smith was treated, how he was
20:08
Speaker 1: arrested at Sydney Airport when he'd offered to hand himself
20:11
Speaker 1: in on multiple occasions over the past six months. They're
20:13
Speaker 1: furious that the Albanese government has spent a reported $ 300
20:17
Speaker 1: million pursuing him over the years. So, you know, it's
20:21
Speaker 1: not just One Nation. There is this anger... at how
20:24
Speaker 1: he was treated. And, I mean, you'd have to admit
20:28
Speaker 1: this has damaged you politically.
20:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have no... Look, I stand by what I
20:35
Speaker 2: have done in the past. I'm not going to resile
20:36
Speaker 2: from that on your program. And, moreover, you know, what's
20:40
Speaker 2: happened in the last year or so, that's a responsibility
20:43
Speaker 2: for the government. And, you know, I can't... I'm not
20:46
Speaker 2: involved in operations and I'm not involved in the case.
20:49
Speaker 2: So I'm not sure what your point is here, except
20:52
Speaker 2: to say that, We are where we are. There are
20:54
Speaker 2: allegations to be answered. But I'm sure as hell not
20:57
Speaker 2: going to be called a traitor by someone else in
21:00
Speaker 2: the parliament and let them get away with it. And
21:03
Speaker 2: I'm calling Pauline Hanson out. That's what I've done. And
21:05
Speaker 2: she's shown herself to be weak in responding to my comments.
21:09
Speaker 1: Last year, you did a preference deal with the One
21:11
Speaker 1: Nation candidate in your electorate of Canning. What's happened in
21:15
Speaker 1: that short space of time with One Nation?
21:19
Speaker 2: Nothing. I think I was on the record in March
21:20
Speaker 2: of saying the One Nation candidate, Fernando Bove, was a
21:24
Speaker 2: great guy and I respected him and I see him
21:26
Speaker 2: regularly around town. I don't have an issue with him.
21:29
Speaker 2: But there is something directing One Nation in this direction
21:33
Speaker 2: and I'm calling it out. And many Australians are tired
21:37
Speaker 2: of it. And frankly, let's see what Pauline Hanson has
21:40
Speaker 2: to say. But I think she's revealed herself to be weak.
21:45
Speaker 1: Look, you're still young. You're 43 years old. I know
21:47
Speaker 1: you support Angus Taylor. He's a friend of yours. Do
21:50
Speaker 1: you still have leadership ambitions down the track?
21:55
Speaker 2: Look, I certainly had leadership ambitions back in January, February.
22:00
Speaker 2: They've been put on ice. I support Angus Taylor and
22:02
Speaker 2: I think my actions demonstrate my loyalty and support for
22:05
Speaker 2: the leader. Our focus is getting to the next election,
22:07
Speaker 2: winning so that we can cut taxes, we can deliver
22:10
Speaker 2: cheaper power, we can cut immigration, build more homes. and
22:13
Speaker 2: invest in nation-building projects that sets this country up for
22:16
Speaker 2: the future. That's what we're focused on.
22:18
Speaker 1: I mean, many would say that you are the succession
22:20
Speaker 1: plan for the Liberal Party currently, and One Nation is
22:24
Speaker 1: targeting you. They are putting financial resources. James Ashby said
22:29
Speaker 1: they've got 400 members or so in your electorate. So,
22:32
Speaker 1: you know, they are targeting you, a future leader of
22:35
Speaker 1: the party, aren't they?
22:38
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe it just comes down to the
22:40
Speaker 2: fact that I was prepared to give evidence and I
22:44
Speaker 2: was prepared to say that there are standards of battlefield conduct.
22:48
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just as simple as that. And if that's
22:50
Speaker 2: the case, well, then I wouldn't want One Nation's support anyway.
22:55
Speaker 2: I believe in the rule of law. I believe that
22:57
Speaker 2: ANZAC has meaning.
22:58
Speaker 7: It has.
23:00
Speaker 2: it's meant to be about people of integrity doing the
23:02
Speaker 2: right thing. And there are allegations that need to be answered.
23:05
Speaker 2: And frankly, I'm not going to be bullied, nor will
23:08
Speaker 2: other witnesses. And tonight I'm speaking for them specifically. And
23:12
Speaker 2: I'm not going to back down.
23:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you for coming on the show. Thank
23:15
Speaker 1: you for answering the questions. And we'll see how One
23:18
Speaker 1: Nation responds tomorrow. Andrew Hastie, thank you very much.
23:22
Speaker 2: Thank you.
23:24
Speaker 1: Well, this week on September 10 marks one year since
23:28
Speaker 1: the brutal assassination of Charlie Kirk. The Turning Point USA
23:32
Speaker 1: founder was shot dead doing what he loved, engaging in
23:36
Speaker 1: conversation at the Utah Valley University. A year on, it's
23:40
Speaker 1: now preparing to hold a memorial. I spoke with one
23:43
Speaker 1: of his good friends, political commentator Dave Rubin, a little earlier.
23:49
Speaker 1: Dave Rubin, great to see you. Thank you so much
23:51
Speaker 1: for your time. Look, it must be such a difficult
23:54
Speaker 1: time one year on from your friend Charlie Kirk's tragic murder.
23:58
Speaker 1: I mean, firstly, how are you doing? How are you
24:00
Speaker 1: coping with it all?
24:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, thanks for asking the question. I mean, yeah,
24:04
Speaker 3: it's a difficult time for me, but I think it's
24:06
Speaker 3: a difficult time for every sane and decent person in
24:10
Speaker 3: the United States and around the world. You know, Charlie,
24:13
Speaker 3: I knew Charlie very well. We toured together, went to
24:16
Speaker 3: college campuses together. You know, we kind of rose together
24:20
Speaker 3: in the online political space. Sometimes we agreed on things.
24:25
Speaker 3: As the years went by, we agreed on more and more.
24:27
Speaker 3: But when we first met around 2016 or 17, we
24:31
Speaker 3: disagreed on a whole host of issues. And that's why
24:34
Speaker 3: Charlie invited me to go to college campuses with him,
24:37
Speaker 3: because I was on one side of a lot of
24:39
Speaker 3: issues and he was on the other side. And we
24:42
Speaker 3: always did it with a sense of mutual respect and
24:45
Speaker 3: fun and congeniality. And I think people were really brought
24:51
Speaker 3: in by that. And he really represented something very magical
24:54
Speaker 3: that we need more of, which is that Charlie loved
24:58
Speaker 3: America and he strongly believed what he believed, but he
25:02
Speaker 3: didn't demand that everyone believe the exact same things as him.
25:06
Speaker 3: And that's a really lost art in the public space
25:08
Speaker 3: these days. It's something that I've really tried, particularly in
25:11
Speaker 3: the last year post-Charlie, to incorporate a little bit more of.
25:16
Speaker 3: But it's a sad day for America. It's a sad
25:20
Speaker 3: day for the world. And I just hope that out
25:24
Speaker 3: of this horrific tragedy that happened a year ago today,
25:27
Speaker 3: that many more Charlie Kirks are on the way because
25:30
Speaker 3: we could use them. We could use them. You could
25:32
Speaker 3: use them. They could be used all over the world.
25:35
Speaker 1: The legacy he leaves is so important. It's huge. Important lessons,
25:40
Speaker 1: as you say. Charlie's widow, Erica, the piece she wrote
25:43
Speaker 1: in The Times, it was beautiful, it was powerful, and
25:46
Speaker 1: it's shocking to think just how much she's been through
25:49
Speaker 1: over the past year. I mean, not only dealing with
25:52
Speaker 1: the grief of losing her best friend, her soulmate, her husband,
25:56
Speaker 1: but then also having to deal with the hate from
25:58
Speaker 1: the likes of podcasters like Candice Owens, but others as well.
26:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Sherry, ironically, unfortunately, I only got to
26:06
Speaker 3: meet Erica once, and believe it or not, it was
26:09
Speaker 3: at Candace Owen's wedding, of all places, which now, when
26:13
Speaker 3: I think back on that, feels like some very bizarre dream.
26:17
Speaker 3: I mean, look, she lost her husband. She lost the
26:20
Speaker 3: father to her children. She lost someone who was, in
26:25
Speaker 3: many ways, the let's say, younger leader of the MAGA movement.
26:30
Speaker 3: Trump was the leader of the MAGA movement and still is,
26:33
Speaker 3: but Charlie was the one that was ushering in all
26:36
Speaker 3: of the college age and 20 to 30 year olds,
26:39
Speaker 3: let's say. She loses this huge influence that her life
26:43
Speaker 3: revolved around and then she suddenly is getting hate and
26:49
Speaker 3: the insane conspiracy theories that are being thrown at her
26:52
Speaker 3: and the most horrendous, awful accusations and implications that she
26:57
Speaker 3: had something to do with it or a cover or anything. Frankly,
27:00
Speaker 3: I'd prefer not to waste too much time talking about
27:03
Speaker 3: those people on a day like this because they don't
27:05
Speaker 3: deserve the time. They've taken too much attention from too
27:08
Speaker 3: many of us for too long. And maybe the best
27:11
Speaker 3: way we can honor Charlie going forward is by ignoring
27:14
Speaker 3: them and letting them flame out. But I hope to
27:17
Speaker 3: cross paths with Erica one of these days again. I
27:19
Speaker 3: have no doubt that we will. And I would just
27:22
Speaker 3: give her a warm hug. that she rightly deserves.
27:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll be a big week. We'll be watching the commemorations.
27:28
Speaker 1: I just want to ask you about a couple of
27:30
Speaker 1: other issues. The Lindsay Clancy trial has made news around
27:33
Speaker 1: the world. We're now getting more information today from the
27:36
Speaker 1: jurors about what happened. And we kind of knew some
27:39
Speaker 1: of this, but it's been confirmed that the majority, 11,
27:43
Speaker 1: were ready to acquit her and only one wanted to
27:46
Speaker 1: find her guilty. I just don't understand this upside down
27:50
Speaker 1: world we're now living in where a mother strangles her
27:53
Speaker 1: three innocent, beautiful children. And somehow the feminists and the
27:57
Speaker 1: left and half the internet want to say that she's
27:59
Speaker 1: the victim. She's the innocent party. Eleven jurors wanting to
28:03
Speaker 1: acquit her.
28:05
Speaker 3: Shari, it's so profoundly upside down that if you wrote
28:10
Speaker 3: this in a movie, people wouldn't believe it. And yet
28:12
Speaker 3: it is the reality. I would say it's the reality
28:15
Speaker 3: because of TikTok brain and how so many people have
28:18
Speaker 3: been just misinformed about so many issues, but having any,
28:22
Speaker 3: let's say you could have some level of empathy for
28:24
Speaker 3: a mother that is dealing with certain stresses that's on
28:28
Speaker 3: prescription drugs, and we all know these come with all
28:30
Speaker 3: sorts of side effects, Let's say you can have some
28:32
Speaker 3: level of sympathy for that. That is not an excuse,
28:35
Speaker 3: nor is it a legal reason for you to be
28:38
Speaker 3: allowed to kill your kids and not go to jail.
28:40
Speaker 3: It's the most heinous crime imaginable. And my fear with
28:44
Speaker 3: this trial is that a huge swath of people now think, well,
28:49
Speaker 3: you know, if you've got your problems or your hormonal
28:52
Speaker 3: issues or whatever it might be, you can do the
28:54
Speaker 3: unthinkable and you'll be let off the hook. I would say,
28:57
Speaker 3: and sadly everything that comes about politics, this is really
29:01
Speaker 3: bad news for AOC or other female wannabe presidents of
29:04
Speaker 3: the United States because anyone that could be seen as hormonal,
29:08
Speaker 3: well what would you do with the nuclear codes? I
29:10
Speaker 3: mean it's really crazy, but it's really, really dangerous. My
29:14
Speaker 3: friend Dr. Drew Pinsky, who I'm sure your viewers are
29:16
Speaker 3: familiar with, he's been talking a lot about this, that
29:18
Speaker 3: we seem to have this low-grade war between men and
29:21
Speaker 3: women right now, and that cannot be good for the
29:24
Speaker 3: future of human society.
29:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely not. Look, it's, of course, the September 11
29:30
Speaker 1: commemoration this week. Now, the mayor at the time of
29:33
Speaker 1: New York City, Rudy Giuliani, has said that Zoran Mamdani
29:36
Speaker 1: shouldn't be attending the commemorations, that it would be offensive.
29:40
Speaker 1: to him, given some of the people he's associated with,
29:43
Speaker 1: some of his own comments as well. What do you
29:45
Speaker 1: think about this?
29:47
Speaker 3: I completely agree with Rudy. I was in New York
29:49
Speaker 3: City during 9-11. My father from his office saw the
29:53
Speaker 3: second plane hit. My grandmother lived there. We had plenty
29:57
Speaker 3: of people that had friends that couldn't get out of
29:59
Speaker 3: the city for days that ended up staying with me
30:01
Speaker 3: at my apartment. I remember it vividly. I literally remember
30:04
Speaker 3: the smell that was in the air from the soot.
30:08
Speaker 3: and the smoke that literally lasted for weeks after that.
30:13
Speaker 3: I know people that died. I had a cousin who
30:15
Speaker 3: was a firefighter. Fortunately, he survived. It's the most unimaginably
30:20
Speaker 3: evil tragedy that was done by radical Islamist terrorists. He
30:24
Speaker 3: has pulled the wool over a certain set of people's eyes,
30:27
Speaker 3: but I am completely with my friend Rudy Giuliani.
30:30
Speaker 1: Dave, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.
30:34
Speaker 3: Always good to see you, Sherry.
30:37
Speaker 1: Still to come, we've gone from a death tax to
30:39
Speaker 1: a newborn tax. Apparently not even newborn babies are safe
30:42
Speaker 1: from Labor's taxes. I'll talk about that later. Plus, I
30:45
Speaker 1: had to look twice at this news to check it
30:47
Speaker 1: was right. Albanese criticising the ABC. I'm going to show
30:51
Speaker 1: you his comments after the break. I'm also going to
30:53
Speaker 1: ask my panel about this fight between Pauline Hanson and
30:57
Speaker 1: Andrew Hastie and what Hastie's had to say now. We'll
31:00
Speaker 1: get the panel's views after the break. Welcome back. Well,
31:06
Speaker 1: let's bring in our panel tonight. News24 host Jo Hildebrand
31:10
Speaker 1: and former Victorian Liberal Party president Michael Kroger. It's actually
31:13
Speaker 1: our regular Wednesday panel, not just tonight. And I want
31:16
Speaker 1: to start by getting your reaction to what Andrew Hastie
31:20
Speaker 1: had to say just then. Pauline Hanson was on Chris
31:23
Speaker 1: Kenny's show earlier. She's refusing to take down the cartoon
31:27
Speaker 1: that called Hastie a traitor. You've heard Hastie's response. Jo,
31:30
Speaker 1: what do you think?
31:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think you get to call someone who's
31:33
Speaker 4: served their country with the distinction that Andrew Hastie has
31:36
Speaker 4: a traitor. I cannot for the life of me see
31:39
Speaker 4: how she could justify leaving the video up there. She
31:44
Speaker 4: uses Please Explain as a proxy to reach voters and
31:48
Speaker 4: to get her message across to voters. You can't really
31:50
Speaker 4: then say when it turns against you or when there's
31:53
Speaker 4: a backlash, oh, no, that's actually got nothing to do
31:55
Speaker 4: with us. It wasn't me that said that. So I
31:58
Speaker 4: don't think that works. And I think she's... And to
32:00
Speaker 4: sort of hide behind, you know, Ben Robert Smith's skirts
32:04
Speaker 4: in the middle of a court case where we are
32:06
Speaker 4: yet to determine whether or not there was an actual
32:09
Speaker 4: criminal case against him and to use that as a
32:15
Speaker 4: way to poke the stick at other service members I
32:18
Speaker 4: think is disgraceful.
32:20
Speaker 1: And it sounds like from what Andrew Hastie said, he's
32:22
Speaker 1: now dealing with security threats. They've had to increase his security.
32:26
Speaker 1: He's saying it's because of this. That's what he's saying. Michael? Yeah.
32:32
Speaker 8: Well, look, you don't mention the word veteran with the
32:36
Speaker 8: same word as traitor because even though some people might say, well, no,
32:40
Speaker 8: it's got to do with the Freedom of Information Bill
32:42
Speaker 8: at the time. No, no, no, no, no. You put,
32:45
Speaker 8: you know, military veteran with that word the connotation is shocking.
32:51
Speaker 8: I mean, One Nation have been on a winning streak
32:54
Speaker 8: and their instincts in the current environment, and you just
32:57
Speaker 8: have to look at the electoral record, are good. On
32:59
Speaker 8: this issue, they're appalling. I mean, Pauline Hanson should remove
33:03
Speaker 8: that immediately and remove any doubt whatsoever for anyone that
33:08
Speaker 8: thinks that she's putting those two words together. Hastie doesn't
33:11
Speaker 8: deserve that. The country doesn't deserve that. No matter what
33:14
Speaker 8: you think about the fact that he had to give
33:16
Speaker 8: evidence under subpoena, et cetera, et cetera, you never, I mean,
33:20
Speaker 8: my father was captured by the Germans in World War II.
33:22
Speaker 8: If anyone had ever mentioned after that, he was in
33:25
Speaker 8: prison war camp, right? He had to escape from the Germans.
33:29
Speaker 8: If anyone said my father was a traitor in some way,
33:32
Speaker 8: I would be beyond rage. So I can understand why
33:35
Speaker 8: Hastie is appalled, given that he put his life on
33:38
Speaker 8: the line for this country.
33:39
Speaker 3: Exactly.
33:40
Speaker 1: As I said three times.
33:41
Speaker 8: Oh, no, that's beyond... Yeah, absolutely correct.
33:44
Speaker 1: I think the issue is, though.
33:44
Speaker 2: This is beyond the pale.
33:46
Speaker 1: The issue is, though, that there is such strong support
33:49
Speaker 1: for Pauline Hanson at the moment that no-one will hear
33:52
Speaker 1: any criticism of her. I mean, I'm a journalist. I
33:55
Speaker 1: sit here every night and I, you know..... criticise every
33:59
Speaker 1: political party, every politician. I mean, you know, Andrew Hastie
34:03
Speaker 1: just then said he was surprised they went there. I'm
34:05
Speaker 1: a journalist. That is my job. But there's the slightest
34:07
Speaker 1: criticism of One Nation, and people don't like it. They're
34:10
Speaker 1: very sensitive. So I think it'll be hard for Andrew Hastie.
34:14
Speaker 1: To mount this case. I think people, you know, just
34:16
Speaker 1: fall in behind Pauline at the moment. That's the problem
34:18
Speaker 1: with fanaticism.
34:19
Speaker 4: It's irrational, it's crazy and it doesn't listen to reason.
34:22
Speaker 1: Joe, you can't say One Nation supporters are fanatics. That's
34:25
Speaker 1: not the point I was making.
34:26
Speaker 4: Well, it sounded a lot like it.
34:28
Speaker 1: Michael?
34:30
Speaker 4: If you can't say anything bad about a leader, even
34:32
Speaker 4: though they've clearly done the wrong thing and you will
34:34
Speaker 4: still support them, I think that counts as fanaticism.
34:37
Speaker 8: Everyone in public life is subject to analysis and criticism. And, yeah,
34:43
Speaker 8: of course, you say people say, you know, that Hanson
34:45
Speaker 8: can't do any wrong amongst her supporters. But there will
34:48
Speaker 8: always be an element of people that whether you're talking
34:51
Speaker 8: about Ben Robert Smith or Andrew Hastie, those Australians, men
34:55
Speaker 8: and women, who've served their country in battle have a
34:58
Speaker 8: special place in the heart of all Australians.
35:00
Speaker 1: Exactly.
35:01
Speaker 8: That's true. And to imply, impugn Hastie in this way
35:06
Speaker 8: is grotesque in my view.
35:08
Speaker 3: Yeah.
35:08
Speaker 1: All right. Let's get on to a couple of other issues. Now,
35:11
Speaker 1: I was surprised to see the Prime Minister have a
35:14
Speaker 1: crack at the ABC this morning, very unlike him. Have
35:17
Speaker 1: a look at this.
35:18
Speaker 4: Did you just not even know that you were an
35:20
Speaker 4: honorary member?
35:23
Speaker 8: No, how would I.
35:24
Speaker 9: 15 years ago, someone decided to say, oh, we'll make
35:27
Speaker 9: him an honorary member.
35:28
Speaker 1: I don't have a card.
35:30
Speaker 9: I don't go in there. I haven't been in there
35:33
Speaker 9: for years. I used to walk my dog along the path,
35:37
Speaker 9: as lots of people do, because it's a community club.
35:39
Speaker 1: The ABC were told this.
35:43
Speaker 3: We'll move on.
35:44
Speaker 2: Can I ask you what's happening.
35:45
Speaker 9: And the ABC should do better.
35:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it was a pretty light crack, but
35:49
Speaker 1: it was still a crack, Joe. This was, of course,
35:51
Speaker 1: over the fact that the Prime Minister... according to this
35:53
Speaker 1: ABC report, had failed to disclose his links to the
35:56
Speaker 1: Marrickville Golf Club, which received $ 6 million in taxpayer funding.
36:00
Speaker 1: I mean, Jo, News 24 is always... You know, we're
36:04
Speaker 1: constantly getting criticised by the government, which we're not sensitive about,
36:08
Speaker 1: by the way, but this was very rare.
36:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I think, I mean, it was pretty light-hearted,
36:13
Speaker 4: as you said, but the idea that this is some
36:15
Speaker 4: kind of scandal or some kind of smoking gun is
36:18
Speaker 4: absolutely ridiculous. I know the Marrickville Golf Club. It is
36:21
Speaker 4: not some ritzy club. I live next to it.
36:23
Speaker 1: No one said it was a ritzy club.
36:24
Speaker 4: It is a public club where they made him run by,
36:28
Speaker 4: you know, it's a ramshackle old clubhouse. They made him
36:32
Speaker 4: an honorary member, which I think was a financial benefit of, what,
36:36
Speaker 4: $ 5 for two years?
36:37
Speaker 2: Yes.
36:38
Speaker 4: And the idea that there was some conflict of interest
36:40
Speaker 4: here because he failed to disclose what he did not know.
36:44
Speaker 4: I mean, by all means, I've been very critical of
36:46
Speaker 4: the Labor government and the budget and how the economy
36:49
Speaker 4: is going. But to think that this is a scandal,
36:52
Speaker 4: you would honestly need rocks in your head.
36:54
Speaker 1: Well, there are a lot of other scandals with the
36:56
Speaker 1: Albanese government. And the actual point of this story, Michael,
36:59
Speaker 1: was the pork barrelling, the fact they were throwing hundreds
37:01
Speaker 1: of millions of dollars into community projects in Labor seats.
37:07
Speaker 8: I wish Jim Chalmers was as good at investing the
37:11
Speaker 8: public's money as the Marrickville Golf Club were. In their
37:14
Speaker 8: $ 5 investment, they turned.
37:16
Speaker 3: Into $ 6 million.
37:16
Speaker 8: The one you've got to feel sorry for is Bridget McKenzie.
37:22
Speaker 8: Her Wangaretta Gun Club got $ 36, 000, right? Of the 1,500
37:29
Speaker 8: golf clubs in Australia, I don't think I'm wrong to
37:32
Speaker 8: say this, I think Marrickville were the only one that
37:35
Speaker 8: got money, and they.
37:36
Speaker 2: Got $ 6 million.
37:38
Speaker 8: It's in the Prime Minister's electorate, as I understand it. Well,
37:41
Speaker 8: the question is this. How was this decided? This is
37:45
Speaker 8: where I have some sympathy with the crossbench. Where's the transparency?
37:50
Speaker 2: How is it out of.
37:51
Speaker 8: You know, the Royal Merrickville Golf Club.
37:54
Speaker 1: It needs to be examined, no question.
37:55
Speaker 3: No question.
37:56
Speaker 8: How was I lucky enough to get $ 6 million? God,
37:59
Speaker 8: did the person giving the grant know that it happened
38:00
Speaker 8: to be an elbows electorate?
38:01
Speaker 3: Hmm, I wonder. Exactly.
38:04
Speaker 1: And he has come up from competition from the Greens
38:06
Speaker 1: in the past, so he'd be wanting to keep everyone happy.
38:08
Speaker 1: Very quickly, Joe, sad news today that Blanche Delpuget, wife
38:12
Speaker 1: of former Prime Minister Bob Hawke, died aged 82 following
38:16
Speaker 1: complications with influenza. She was a strong, great woman in
38:20
Speaker 1: her own right. Of course, she will always be remembered
38:22
Speaker 1: for breaking up the marriage.
38:25
Speaker 3: She will, yeah.
38:25
Speaker 4: But I have to say, I knew a couple of
38:29
Speaker 4: Bob's kids with Hazel as well, so I knew that
38:32
Speaker 4: side of the family. a little bit but um but
38:35
Speaker 4: I knew Blanche too and I thought Blanche was a
38:38
Speaker 4: really lovely person she clearly really deeply loved uh Bob
38:42
Speaker 4: there is no question about that she's not been set
38:45
Speaker 4: out to be a homewrecker or anything like that and
38:47
Speaker 4: I think by the end well I know in fact
38:49
Speaker 4: by the end of um Bob's life um the two
38:53
Speaker 4: sides were completely reconciled and there was nothing.
38:55
Speaker 1: But uh love between them We'll have to talk about
38:57
Speaker 1: Blanche a bit more next week because we're out of time. Michael,
39:00
Speaker 1: I promised I'd give you the final word on the
39:02
Speaker 1: British government, but make it snappy.
39:05
Speaker 8: Shame on the British government for what they've done. They
39:08
Speaker 8: still haven't lived down their disgraceful performance during World War
39:11
Speaker 8: Two when they limited the number of Jews that could
39:13
Speaker 8: escape Nazism and go to British mandated Palestine. And they've
39:19
Speaker 8: repeated their error today. Shame on Ed Billiband and the
39:23
Speaker 8: Labor government in Britain. Appalling, disgusting, despicable.
39:27
Speaker 1: And we're going to come back to that a bit
39:28
Speaker 1: later in the show as well. All right, Michael, Joe,
39:31
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Well, coming up, King Charles puts
39:34
Speaker 1: his foot down. Meghan and Harry won't be working royals
39:37
Speaker 1: when they return to the UK. Plus, how Labor's tax
39:40
Speaker 1: on trusts could soon affect newborns. That's after the break.
39:48
Speaker 1: Welcome back. Well, not even newborns are safe from the
39:51
Speaker 1: Albanese government's tax hikes. This, according to a story by
39:55
Speaker 1: Matthew Cranston today. The new tax on trusts means any
39:59
Speaker 1: babies added as a beneficiary after the cut-off won't be
40:03
Speaker 1: exempt from the changes. And joining me now, Pangana Capital
40:06
Speaker 1: Chief Executive, Russell Pillimer. Russell, great to see you again.
40:09
Speaker 1: So this is pretty awful. It's been late. We've had
40:13
Speaker 1: the death tax, the widow's tax, a divorce tax. and
40:16
Speaker 1: now a baby's tax. What is this about?
40:18
Speaker 7: Yes, so it.
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Speaker 3: Keeps on changing.
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Speaker 7: You recall when we spoke last week, the exemption had
40:24
Speaker 7: just been brought in, and the exemption was that for
40:28
Speaker 7: discretionary trusts, if you nominate your beneficiaries up front, then
40:33
Speaker 7: you won't be subject to the minimum 30% tax rate.
40:37
Speaker 7: So this was good news for everyone, but it felt
40:40
Speaker 7: like legislation on the run. because the government didn't disclose
40:44
Speaker 7: how much, what it meant for the economics, how much
40:48
Speaker 7: less tax was going to be raised. Legislation was then
40:52
Speaker 7: progressed during the week. And it turns out that whilst
40:56
Speaker 7: you can take people out of the trust, say if
40:59
Speaker 7: somebody dies or if you get divorced, they can be
41:02
Speaker 7: removed from the trust. The moment you add somebody new
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Speaker 7: into the trust, you basically do away with the advantage
41:08
Speaker 7: and there's actually a penalty associated with that. So newborn
41:12
Speaker 7: babies will not be able to be added to the trust. Now,
41:15
Speaker 7: a lot of the commentators are suspecting that this might
41:18
Speaker 7: be an error and actually that it just needs to
41:21
Speaker 7: be fixed. But I'm not quite so sure about that.
41:24
Speaker 7: If it does not get fixed, what that actually means
41:27
Speaker 7: is that this is the beginning of the end of
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Speaker 7: these trusts, because obviously if nobody can be added.
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Speaker 1: Then no one's going to use them. They'll have to
41:34
Speaker 1: find another way to structure financial affairs.
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Speaker 7: Absolutely. So once again, legislation on the run. It would
41:40
Speaker 7: be much better if these things were thought out before
41:42
Speaker 7: they get announced.
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Speaker 1: The tax upheaval in Australia for businesses at the moment
41:47
Speaker 1: is just huge. I mean, how are people meant to
41:49
Speaker 1: keep on top of all these changes?
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Speaker 7: It's really difficult keeping on top of changes and then
41:54
Speaker 7: also planning for the future. individuals, businesses, etc. And it
42:00
Speaker 7: doesn't provide a lot of confidence to people because certainty
42:05
Speaker 7: is so important in business life.
42:09
Speaker 1: Now, I want to ask you about these Waymo cars. Now,
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Speaker 1: these are self-driving cars. They're dominating the rideshare market or
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Speaker 1: on their way to dominating it in the United States.
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Speaker 1: I'm told some of them don't even have steering wheels,
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Speaker 1: driverless cars.
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Speaker 3: Yes.
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Speaker 7: So Waymo is a fantastic story. It began back in 2005.
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Speaker 7: There was a competition, a race in the desert in
42:32
Speaker 7: Nevada for driverless cars and driverless cars were just beginning
42:38
Speaker 7: really early days. and there was a Stanford University computer
42:42
Speaker 7: scientist who won the challenge and the owners of Google
42:48
Speaker 7: spotted this and they loved it so much that they
42:51
Speaker 7: hired him to come work for Google and to build
42:54
Speaker 7: out a driverless car division within Google. In 2016, this
42:57
Speaker 7: was then separated into a separate company And today it's
43:03
Speaker 7: got a market value of $ 126 billion.
43:07
Speaker 5: Huge.
43:08
Speaker 7: Now, they are absolutely driverless cars. There are now 4,000
43:12
Speaker 7: of them on the roads across the US, I think
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Speaker 7: in 14 major cities. And they will slowly start to
43:20
Speaker 7: dominate the market.
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Speaker 1: And they're meant to be safer, but I mean, getting
43:23
Speaker 1: in one for the first time, you'd be pretty nervous, right?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, although it tells you how to get in it.
43:28
Speaker 1: What do you do? You say to the car, slow down.
43:30
Speaker 1: Who do you tell to slow down? I mean, that's
43:31
Speaker 1: constantly what I do to my husband.
43:34
Speaker 7: So the safety record is fantastic, much better than human beings.
43:39
Speaker 7: It's not 100%, but nothing is 100%. But within a decade,
43:43
Speaker 7: these are likely to dominate. our roads. You can imagine,
43:48
Speaker 7: you know, the drivers in Ubers will probably be a
43:52
Speaker 7: thing of the past, maybe taxi drivers, except in some
43:55
Speaker 7: rare cases. And then also even individuals, you know, why
44:00
Speaker 7: would you have your own car if you can have
44:03
Speaker 7: these things at your fingertips? Because there'll be an absolute
44:05
Speaker 7: abundance of them and they'll be really cheap. And why
44:08
Speaker 7: would you have a parking spot in the city if
44:10
Speaker 7: if you can take one of these for a fraction
44:12
Speaker 7: of the price. So watch this space.
44:14
Speaker 1: Changing too quickly for my liking. Just before you go,
44:18
Speaker 1: you know, we've been talking every week on the show
44:21
Speaker 1: about the property market and how it's crashing. The Reserve
44:25
Speaker 1: Bank is now expected to, again, raise interest rates once,
44:28
Speaker 1: maybe twice this year. I mean, that's the latest data
44:31
Speaker 1: coming out.
44:32
Speaker 7: Yeah, this is a real worry. As we discussed, inflation
44:35
Speaker 7: is out of control. And there's only really two main
44:39
Speaker 7: ways of getting inflation under control. Either the Reserve Bank
44:42
Speaker 7: raises rates or alternatively, the government takes actions. And those
44:46
Speaker 7: actions are things like reducing the government's expenditure, improving productivity,
44:53
Speaker 7: reducing energy costs. The government seems unwilling or unable to
44:57
Speaker 7: tackle the issues. And so leaving it to the Reserve
45:00
Speaker 7: Bank to raise interest rates. Interest rates are a really
45:03
Speaker 7: blunt instrument. And the way it works is they basically
45:07
Speaker 7: pressure the economy to stop people from spending. And the
45:11
Speaker 7: danger with that is that it can push the economy
45:14
Speaker 7: into a recession.
45:15
Speaker 1: Which is what economists are worried about now.
45:16
Speaker 8: Absolutely.
45:17
Speaker 7: And so it is worrying times. It would be much
45:20
Speaker 7: better if the government started taking action. So not leaving
45:23
Speaker 7: it all to the Reserve Bank. But I mean, they're.
45:27
Speaker 1: Not doing anything to bring down spending. All they're doing
45:29
Speaker 1: is trying to find ways to tax everyone more.
45:31
Speaker 2: Russell?
45:32
Speaker 1: Good to see you again. Great to see you. We'll
45:33
Speaker 1: see you next Wednesday. After the break, the UK unfairly
45:37
Speaker 1: puts sanctions on Israel. Tom Slater is next. Well, in
45:45
Speaker 1: an extraordinary move, the UK has introduced sanctions against Israeli
45:49
Speaker 1: settlements in the West Bank. It was an unbelievable attack
45:53
Speaker 1: during the House of Commons.
45:55
Speaker 9: The British government agrees that there is ethnic cleansing of
45:58
Speaker 9: Palestinians in areas of the West Bank. perpetrated by settler terrorists.
46:03
Speaker 9: And all too often, the Israeli government has turned a
46:06
Speaker 9: blind eye to this, and worse, members of it have
46:09
Speaker 9: made statements and taken actions to support the forced displacement
46:13
Speaker 9: of Palestinians.
46:15
Speaker 1: Joining me now is Spiked Online editor Tom Slater. Tom,
46:18
Speaker 1: the allegation's utterly false. It undermines their relationship with an ally.
46:23
Speaker 1: But more importantly, it sends a dangerous message to anti-Semites
46:27
Speaker 1: around the world.
46:29
Speaker 6: Now, I can put it better myself, Shari, I think
46:31
Speaker 6: this is a totally shameful day. I think it's part
46:33
Speaker 6: and parcel of our response in the UK, regrettably, since
46:37
Speaker 6: October the 7th, which is when Israel is confronted by
46:41
Speaker 6: this existential threat, when it's proven once again that the
46:44
Speaker 6: jihadists on its borders are willing to do anything to
46:47
Speaker 6: try and wipe it off the face of the map.
46:49
Speaker 6: We've just joined in with the demonization. We've just joined
46:51
Speaker 6: in with this lie that Israel is a kind of
46:54
Speaker 6: uniquely pariah state that needs to be treated as such.
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Speaker 2: And what were the reasons for it?
46:59
Speaker 6: If you look at some of the background briefings, you've
47:01
Speaker 6: got British officials openly telling the Americans that this is
47:03
Speaker 6: largely for symbolic purposes. They know it's not really going
47:06
Speaker 6: to achieve anything on the ground. But what it will
47:09
Speaker 6: do is send the message loud and clear that these
47:12
Speaker 6: smears about Israel perpetrated by the Islamists and so on
47:15
Speaker 6: are correct. And that Britain knows where it stands in
47:18
Speaker 6: relation to that. Also, the domestic consequences of it for
47:20
Speaker 6: British Jews is something I'm particularly concerned about, given that
47:23
Speaker 6: whenever you have something in relation to Israel bubbling up
47:26
Speaker 6: into political consciousness, it's often British Jews who have to
47:29
Speaker 6: pay the.
47:29
Speaker 2: Consequences for it.
47:31
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. We've seen that around the world. I
47:33
Speaker 1: was pleased to see, though, Tom, that in turn Israel
47:36
Speaker 1: set a list of 12 British officials will be denied
47:39
Speaker 1: entry to Israel. Probably not they were trying to go,
47:41
Speaker 1: but nevertheless, and that included Jeremy Corbyn.
47:45
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, Jeremy Corbyn, let's not forget, he's not
47:47
Speaker 6: someone who's just pro-Palestine. He was on record, on tape,
47:50
Speaker 6: in fact, not too long ago, about a decade or
47:53
Speaker 6: more ago, welcoming his friends from Hamas and Hezbollah to
47:57
Speaker 6: a meeting in the House of Commons. He is someone
47:59
Speaker 6: who opposed the prescription of those groups as terrorist organisations,
48:04
Speaker 6: suggesting that it would be a terrible mistake. So the
48:07
Speaker 6: fact that he's ended up on this list is not
48:09
Speaker 6: surprising by any stretch of the imagination, nor the kind
48:12
Speaker 6: of roll call of Islamists who are also on that list.
48:16
Speaker 6: But it shows that, you know, Britain can take these stands,
48:18
Speaker 6: it can take these... It can posture as much as
48:20
Speaker 6: it wants, but these things do have consequences. We've seen
48:22
Speaker 6: that slightly from Israel. I dare say we might see
48:24
Speaker 6: more from the US as well in time.
48:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed. Turning to Harry and Meghan now, and this
48:31
Speaker 1: letter from King Charles is pretty interesting. He sent a
48:34
Speaker 1: pretty clear message that they're private citizens with commercial and
48:37
Speaker 1: charitable interests. This is in a letter he sent to
48:39
Speaker 1: the government that, you know, has been made public, Tom.
48:45
Speaker 6: No, it just shows that there's a kind of briefing
48:46
Speaker 6: war going on between the palace and between Harry and
48:50
Speaker 6: Meghan as their return to the UK gets underway.
48:54
Speaker 2: Because this is a.
48:54
Speaker 6: Really difficult situation to deal with. Of course, it should
48:57
Speaker 6: come as no surprise to Harry and Meghan that they're
48:59
Speaker 6: not going to be expected to conduct any royal duties.
49:01
Speaker 6: They gave all of that up when they left the
49:03
Speaker 6: UK and for their office to suggest that they were
49:07
Speaker 6: almost blindsided by this announcement. is a little bit strange.
49:10
Speaker 6: At the same time, I think what we're also seeing
49:11
Speaker 6: from the palace is because of how unpopular Harry and
49:14
Speaker 6: Meghan are, because of the fact that when they did
49:16
Speaker 6: storm off, not just from royal duties, but from the
49:18
Speaker 6: United Kingdom, they did so basically accusing the UK of
49:22
Speaker 6: being such a horrible place that they can't seem to be,
49:24
Speaker 6: the palace can't be seen to be indulging them.
49:27
Speaker 2: So it's a hell of a situation.
49:28
Speaker 6: It's unfortunate that the personal and the familial mixes with
49:31
Speaker 6: the political at moments like this, but I guess that
49:33
Speaker 6: is the.
49:33
Speaker 2: Nature of mine.
49:35
Speaker 1: I was listening to Ben Fordham this morning and I
49:37
Speaker 1: heard him say that Prince George is going to Eton College.
49:41
Speaker 1: And I thought, surely not. You know, I was thinking college, university,
49:44
Speaker 1: but he's 13. He's not that old. He's 13 years
49:47
Speaker 1: old and it's a school. He's going to high school.
49:51
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
49:51
Speaker 6: It's where his father went. It's where Prince Harry went
49:54
Speaker 6: as well. Not the king, incidentally, I believe, if memory serves,
49:56
Speaker 6: he was educated in Scotland. But again, this is the
50:00
Speaker 6: quintessential British public school has educated, I think, 20 prime
50:03
Speaker 6: minister's And now the young prince heir to the throne,
50:06
Speaker 6: in fact, is going.
50:07
Speaker 2: To be going there as well.
50:08
Speaker 1: All right. Tom Slater, thank you so much. Great to
50:10
Speaker 1: have your company. And thanks, everyone, for watching tonight. It's
50:15
Speaker 1: been a big news day, that's for sure. Everyone has
50:18
Speaker 1: a strong opinion on Pauline Hanson and Andrew Hastie, no doubt.
50:21
Speaker 1: Paul Murray, we'll get into it right now.