Latest / The Trauma Therapist / The Guest Host Series Christina P. Kantzavelos, LCSW interviews Dani Fagan

Transcript

The Guest Host Series Christina P. Kantzavelos, LCSW interviews Dani Fagan · The Trauma Therapist

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gaming Person.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: is Christina Gonsavolos. I am a guest co host. Guy
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: so kindly allowed me to become and I am here
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: interviewing the lovely Danny Veagan.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: So happy to have you here.
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: It's lovely to be here. I've been waiting to well,
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: we've been juggling appointments around a little bit to try
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: and consolidate, haven't we. So yeah, I'm excited to be here.
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: It's lovely to finally sit with you.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Dred percent. Yeah.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: This has been a while in the making, and I
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: have been a fangirl of Danny for.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Quite some quite some time.
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: It's true the stuff you post just resonates so hard
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: each time.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: And when I was going through my own, my own
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: personal TMS journey, you were like one of the first
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: accounts I kind of found on Instagram where I was like, Okay, yes,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: this this speaks to me because you.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Know we'll get into it, right.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: But like in my own journey, I was over identifying
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: with my with.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: My pain and my chronicness.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: And when I really started to do like the John
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Sarno work, namely under understanding the mind the mind body
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: connection and how pain really starts like truly in our
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: in our brains rather than in our bodies. And you
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: know how you know we've evolved to emotionally I'm sorry
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: to physically feel pain over emotionally feeling it. And yeah, anyway,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: the right, the more you learn, the less you know,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: but the wiser. Yes, So for Danny, tell us about
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: your personal journey.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: If you don't, you don't mind.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so much like a lot of people I guess
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: that you have spoken to in this space and that
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: come to this type of podcast, that have experienced, you know,
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: different types of trauma, perhaps childhood trauma, complex trauma. We
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: tend to find ourselves at some point in our lives
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: feeling some kind of symptoms or experiencing some kind of
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: distressing physical ailment or illness that you know has no explanation,
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: or has an explanation that doesn't really make sense, or
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: has something that is just perpetually changing or moving or adapting.
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: And the more I've learned about myself and the more
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: that I treat and help other people coaching in this space,
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: is that you know, what we suppress and what we
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: hold in our bodies doesn't go anywhere just by avoiding
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: and by burying and by waiting and you know, spending
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: time just hoping something goes away. And a lot of
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: the times, you know, people with trauma don't really feel
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: like there's a way out of this, Like we're so
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: sort of used to suffering or holding things in or
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: suppressing things that we feel like if we get an
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: illness or we suffer in our bodies, that it's kind
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: of like a life sentence, right, that there's a diagnosis
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: that we may find or various diagnoses that we may
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: find through doctors, through the medical model that tends to
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: make us feel like we're trapped, like it's a bit
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: of a cage, right. But for me personally, I found
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: well originally now looking back, I had lots of different
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: distressing physical symptoms throughout my life that I put down
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: to you know, eating the wrong things or you know,
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: drinking too much alcohol or not resting enough or whatever
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: it was, but there was a set of symptoms that
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: I got, namely severe back pain that kind of stopped
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: through from being able to live my life in a normal,
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: quote unquote normal way. I was told that I had
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: degenerated discs, that I had slip discs, that I had
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: herniated discs, that I had bone on bone, and all
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: sorts of distressing, fearful diagnoses. But in a summary, roundabout way,
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: which we can go into more detail as you see,
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: fit really is that I found that after a lot
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: of research and a lot of kind of hitting walls
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: in the medical model and not really finding relief and
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: being told that I would be disabled forever, I found
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  Speaker 4: this sort of well, one a very dark place, but
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: two also a kind of rebellion in myself of like, well,
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  Speaker 4: this can't be the only thing that can help me.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: If they're saying that I can't have surgery, or I
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: can't have this, or I don't really fit this or
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: I don't fit that, then where does that leave me.
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  Speaker 4: There must be something else, There must be more to this,
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  Speaker 4: And I think it was like a divine intervention or
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: a miraculous moment, call it what you will, that someone
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  Speaker 4: suggested a doctor Sano book to investigate, basically to just
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: see whether there was some maybe some resonance in there
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: that would make sense with me. And basically, his whole
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: theory and his premise is that childhood experiences or early
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: life experiences can lead to emotional suppression, whether that's trauma
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: or whether that's you know, lack of emotional achievement with
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: your parents or something missing from your you know, constellation
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  Speaker 4: of needs as a child typically can lead to you
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  Speaker 4: suppressing yourself, suppressing emotions and not kind of living yourself
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: in an authentic way. And that suppression can cause your
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: body to revolt basically, cause your body to react hyper
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: sensitively to toxins like we were speaking about earlier, or
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: react open, hyper sensitive, hypersensitively to twinges in your body
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: or headaches or whatever it is that you may feel.
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: Your brain and your nervous system that's hypersensitized because of
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: those experiences in your child can kind of overreact for
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: want of a better word, to you know, neutral sensation
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: or neutral toxins or neutral things that happen that really
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: shouldn't create these issues in our bodies. So for me,
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: that turned into a hyperfixation and a very intense fear
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: of what was happening in my body, which created a
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  Speaker 4: dysregulation in my nervous system, which then perpetuated the pain. Basically,
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: so the fear and the trauma and this hypersensitized nervous
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: system basically exacerbated the sensation that was going on in
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: my body, which was originally probably very a neutral thing.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: And it can change and it can move, and it's like,
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: you know, like we said just before we started recording
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: this call, you know, people can experience physical sensations and
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: immediately feel like they need to physically fix those sensations
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: on those symptoms. Right, It's a normal thing. It's what
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: we're taught by doctors our whole lives. We're taught that
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: if something hurts or something doesn't feel right, we need
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: to either take a tablet or get a surgery or
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: an intervention or a procedure to fix it. Whereas we
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: now know, through you know, extensive research and brain science
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: and all the nervous system practices that we now know about,
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: is that you know, we can we can change those things.
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: Like we're not stuck in any kind of situation unless
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: we have a broken bone or a tumor or something
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: that is you know, very obviously a physical issue that
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: we can heal and we can adapt, and we can change,
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: and our bodies and our brains are made to heal
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: and recover. So what we're told by our doctors, our
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: whole life is can be very incorrect or very misleading.
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: That can add extra fear to the part. So for me,
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: I went through years of you know, trying to trying
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: to figure out how to fix my back, when really
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: the pro and wasn't in my back, It was in
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: my for want of a better phrase, it was in
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: my heart. It was in the stuff that I'd be burying,
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: the difficulty that I've been having that I wasn't able
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: to express right. I wasn't able to tell my parents
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: that I was upset about something, or express my anger
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: fully or you know, revolt against trauma or all those
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: things that were kind of I guess conditioned to suppress.
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: Especially as women. It's like, you know, we're supposed to
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: be good girls, we're supposed to be compliant, were supposed
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: to be you know, happy humans, and when that doesn't match,
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: the body speaks up. The body speaks. Really, it was
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: in the form of sensations that is, in a nutshell,
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: the turmoil that kind of came of my own life
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  Speaker 4: experiences and my conditioning to suppress and you know, hold
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  Speaker 4: it all in created a situation like a perfect storm
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  Speaker 4: really that that made my body start screaming and it's
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: in a whisper. And then it got a little louder
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  Speaker 4: and changed place like I had headaches, I had you know,
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: risk pain, neck pain, eye pain, watering eyes, tinatus. There's
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: such a long list of things that I've experienced that
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: all really fit under the same umbrella that is in
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: many circles referred to as tms that you mentioned at
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: the beginning, which basically just refers to a chronic condition
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: that is rooted in either emotional suppression or or trauma
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: of some kind. And it's super common, like it's, you know,
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: now becoming a little bit more mainstream, this type of
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: topic that you know it that your body does hold
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: the score. Your body does show up with all the
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: things that you bury, with all the things that you carry,
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  Speaker 4: like if they're not address then you know, they start
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: to shout louder in different ways. So I learned a
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: set of steps through originally through Sano's book which is
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: he's passed away natunately. Now, this was written I think
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: in the early eighties or originally in the late seventies,
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: and his work has now kind of, you know, progressed
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: as new research has come available and new experts have
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  Speaker 4: sort of taken his place, and you know, it gets
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: a little bit more mainstream and more accessible. It's you know,
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: it's changed a little bit, and it's become more up
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: to date, let's say, more modern. And that is the
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: protocol that I now kind of coach in my own
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: practice and that I now share with other people to
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: help them recover in the same way that I did. So, yeah,
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  Speaker 4: that's kind of a brief summary into what I was
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: experiencing and what I think it's important to mention as well.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: Like we just touched on before we started recording, that
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  Speaker 4: if you experience something like this, it doesn't mean that
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: there's anything wrong with you. It doesn't mean that you're
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: broken or you have a disease, or that you're you know,
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: you're in a certain subset category of humans that are
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: flawed in it's part of the human experience. The mind
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: body connection is a very real thing. Your brain and
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: your nervous system is connected to every cell in your body.
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: So if something is disrupted, even if it's an emotional disruption,
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: even if it's seemingly a cognitive disruption, your body is
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: connected to that and your body will express just as
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: much as if you're sad, water pours out of your eyes,
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: or if you're aroused, you know, your body heats up
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: or same thing, right, Your body responds to what is
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: happening in your cognitive world, in your emotional world, in
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: your mind, basically so, And just to clarify that does
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: not mean that you're making something up or it's in
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: your head. This is very something very important to clarify that.
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  Speaker 4: You know, when things happen in your body and symptoms
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: show up in your body, it doesn't mean that it's
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: something incorrect. This is your biologically perfect representation of what
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: is happening in your experiences, that what's happening in your
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: emotional world, what's happening in your you know, in your environment,
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: it doesn't go away until it's addressed, basically right.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so so true.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: What we what we don't address, will persist and yeah,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: exactly untill it until.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: It is And I know that right on a personal level.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: You know that on a on a personal level, like
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: these things that that crop up and pop up are
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: simply just asking for us to.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: Tune into them, right exactly.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm still learning, like it takes so much practice.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: And you said something earlier too, which is like we're
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: learning to be okay with being uncomfortable.
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. Getting comfortable in the uncomfortable is such a
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: big part of this. Just fighting it and having fear
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: over it just adds fuel to the fire, which is
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: such a hard concept to deal with. It's like, how
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: can I be comfortable when I feel like my back
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: is being ripped apart or you know, depending on whatever
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: symptoms are showing up for you, they can feel like
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: they're ruining your life, and for a long time they
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: can they can completely stop your regular functioning. So it's
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: a really weird concept to say to someone You're not broken,
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: You're fine, you just need to do xized or do
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: these things that seemingly don't fit to what I'm Someone
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: comes to me and says, you know, my head feels
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: like it's being hit with a hot machete on a
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: regular basis every day, and the anxiety I have makes
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: me want to crawl out of my skin. How can
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: you tell me there's nothing wrong with me, that this
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: is normal. It feels stupid, it feels dismissive in a way,
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: it feels invalidating, and I completely get that. I felt
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: exactly the same. But the more you move through this
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: type of work and you understand how the nervous system works,
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: it's just a normal biological reaction. Even though it feels
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: very distressing and it feels like the end of the world,
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: it's a normal thing that we're just not taught, we're
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: we're not shown this, and doctors don't For the most part,
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: it is changing. For the most part, the regular medical
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: model dismisses this kind of stuff. It's only really in
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: the in the East and in other types of you know,
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: Chinese medicine or a evader or stuff like that, that
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: emotions and trauma and experiences are even taken into account
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: a holistic kind of approach to healing. Right, if you're
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: not if you're not going for a surgery or you're
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: not buying medication, then most of the medical experience is
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: very dismissive. So yeah, hopefully that will give some listeners
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: a little bit of hope that if you know, if
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: you have experienced trauma and you do have physical symptoms,
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: it doesn't mean that this is your forever. It doesn't
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: mean that this is a temporary thing. It's not a
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: life sentence, doesn't have to be your entire world. Right,
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: Just tough, it is.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: It is really tough.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: And what I like to tell my patients, my clients,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: is that you know your body is having an normal
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: to a slew of abnormal experiences.
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: Exactly, yeah, exactly, especially in today's world. Like what the fuck?
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: How could we We're supposed to be I say this
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: all the time to my clients. We're supposed to be
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: like we're monkeys in clothes flying through space. For one.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: We're supposed to be picking berries in a field, right, Like,
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: that's where our nervous system was evolved to do. It
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: was evolved to chase away from predators or stay away
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: from harm, and you know, cook food by a fire.
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: It's not supposed to be dealing with world wars and
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: you know, politics and ourshole friends and all of the
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: news and all of the tragedy and all the all
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: of this productivity and five jobs and training and cold
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: plunging and optimizing and being your best self and making
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: the most money and having the most friends and all
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: of this bullshit stuff that we're fed that is, you know,
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: this ideal snapshot of a human existence, which is just bullshit. Really,
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: it all adds up, like regardless of whether you've had
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: trauma or not. So to a sensitive nervous system that
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: has experienced difficulty in early years, like anything like that
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: is going to just overwhelm your sensitive system, right, it's
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: it's not built for that type of overstimulation. And if
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: you're if you do experience child too trauma or any
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: kind of complex trauma, you grow up with a limited capacity, right,
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: You have a limited capacity of what you can cope with.
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: Your your window of tolerance is much smaller, Your ability
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: to cope with things is much smaller. You over reactive
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: to staff like it's it's all, it's all part of
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: the same globe of experiences. For for a nervous system
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: that is like kind of grew up far too quickly
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: before it could catch up with itself. Your body and
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: your body does show those things, right. Your body will speak,
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: your body will tell you something is out of alignment.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: Like you said before, I'd love to use the word
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: attunement because I think it's like it's the most descriptive
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: word that kind of highlights what is required by us
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: and by what should be required by the medical system
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: or people that we're leaning on to help us, Like
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: how can we you know, apart from therapists and coaches,
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: trauma and formed coaches, you know, where is the attunement
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: from a doctor? You have a five minute appointment where
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: you're spouting out symptoms and fear, and then you're expecting,
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: you know, a doctor to give you the key to
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: your perfect health. It's just not and they won't attune
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: to you. They don't attune to you holistically. They don't
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: ask you about your life. They don't ask you about
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: your past, They don't ask you about your experiences, like
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: what's your work life? Like, what's your home life?
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: It just doesn't exist.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: For the most part, they themselves haven't even had that
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: experience they have the training to ask exactly.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: Now we have someone like God bless them, doctor GiB Mattee,
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: who these questions to the forefront.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: You know, as doctors be asking about the person's lifestyle
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: and their good experiences. But that doesn't quite fit the
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: medical model which you know I can really speak to
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: In the US, you know, you're only given sometimes fifteen
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: to thirty minutes, you know, to talk to a doctor.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, how much information yeah, fit into.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: That while discussing what you're acutely experiencing in this very moment.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: Right right in the in the UK, it's five minutes.
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: Like literally your appointment is is you can't even catch
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: a breath. It's it's a free national health service. So
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: I get that. You know, in the States slightly different
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: because you have you're paying for it. Essentially, you're probably
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: going to get a bit more time, but you don't
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: have a chance to even breathe in an appointment. It's
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: not it's not something even if you're really well prepared,
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: it's not going to give you the type of care
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: that you need. So a big part of the work
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: that the mind body connection in the mind body medicine
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: space that I work in and that you work in
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: as well, kind of teaches is that, you know, a
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: big part of recovery is actually just attuning to what
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: your needs are and attuning to what it is that
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: you're missing, attuning to what did those experiences in your
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: childhood do to your nervous system or what kind of
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: voids did they create? Like what were you missing? What
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: didn't you have that you can now kind of help
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: to resolve in your adult life. And I know it
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: feels like probably those two things aren't connected, but they're
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: massively connected. I feel like emotional attunement is one of
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: the greatest skills that we can you know, that we
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: can adopt to to try and understand. At least it
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: was the first step to understand what it is that
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: we are missing. Yes, yes, all the voids that trauma
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: creates it for us, you know.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: And I feel like attunement lends itself to to flexibility rather.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: Than and we were a little bit earlier, right.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Like I could see the ways I was so rigid,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: you know how, you know we talk about the body
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: whispering before screaming part of it rigidity and pressing the
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: override button when I knew I needed rest, but perhaps
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: you know, go into the psychological and emotional pieces deserved.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I deserved that rest, and so
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: that like one fed the other fed the other. So
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: it was a lot of rigidity even you know, when
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: I finally found the doctors, I thought I needed to
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: find for the for the lime and the co infections
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: and all the autoimmune diseases I have. And it's like
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: everything was rigid in the medication and the treatment and
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: then this and then that, and I'm like, I'm not
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: getting I'm better, And it wasn't until the nervous system piece,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: where it's like the rigidity fuels the fight or flight and.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: Exactly to slow down.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I mean really that was the medicine was completely slowing
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: down and feeling safe enough to just be with, like
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: we said, the discomfort and that the flexibility came. And
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: with the flexibility the attunement maybe at the same at
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: the same time, right why backer White actually were mostly
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: swimming in this gray in this gray area.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: That's okay, absolutely, And something that I found recently as
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: well that I've been doing a lot of research for
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: for my book is like that so much of the research,
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: like the majority of research and medical books, and you know,
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: any expert that you speak to, unless they're trained or retrained,
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: is that all of these principles and all of this
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: research is made on male bodies. So when we're even
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: when we're researching or looking into something like polyvagal theory,
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: or we're researching the nervous system, or we're researching how
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: you know, ADHD works, or even certain stuff in the
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: psychological literature. It's like, this is not this is not
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: researched on female bodies. This is research on male bodies.
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: So it's actually also quite irrelevant or massively skewed numbers
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: that don't fit our mold. It's like, you know, the
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: rhythm of a male body works on a twenty four
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: hour cycle. Ours is completely different to that. Every day
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: we show up is very different. So a tumant for
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: a female is deeply, deeply important because every minute of
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: every day may be different. We're not working on this
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: like you know, constant level of energy that we can
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: always meet. Every time we wake up, we're at full level.
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: We're recharged and ready to go. It doesn't work like that.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: And when we ask God doctors about hormones, or we
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: ask God doctors about endometriosis, or we ask God doctors
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: about prairie menopause or whatever this ship is that they
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: don't know because the research just isn't there. Like it's
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: so sad and rage inducing to be honest to read that,
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: you know what we're what we're experiencing in a doctor's office,
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: is actually not even based on our bodies, based on
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: someone else's body, and maybe even a child's body like ADHD.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: Research's mostly done on you know, child males, Like how
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: the fuck are we supposed to try and find help
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: as adult women in perimenopause? Like just how is that?
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: How is that even possible?
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: That's why a lot of women are late are diagnosed
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: later in life.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, real diverse, even myself RDHD, it's like much more
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: when the symptoms were there, you know if someone where
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: but like you said, who would have who would have
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: been in? The reason they were is because of this
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: fact that we aren't for our.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: Hormone cycle, right, So they didn't even My.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Understanding was it didn't really even start until the nineteen nineties, like.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly to test things on.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: It. It's really sad and horrific frankly.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: So basically the women's body was too complicated or too unpredictable,
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: therefore expensive to research, so they just said, well, fuck that,
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: we'll just do the men then, Yeah, we'll just use men.
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: Then thinking that, well okay, well basically you're assuming then
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: that women are just small men. How does it make
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: that make sense.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: And here we are with all these complexities.
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: And exactly, and it's partly why there are you know,
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: the vast majority of people that suffer with chronic illness
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: are female.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: One percent, and there's the other you know, part of it
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: of not being taken seriously and you know that you
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: know it is historically all inside our our heads.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, we are hysterical witches.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Eric witches. I mean send me to the seaside. I
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: mean actually, and.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: I really can we be hysterical witches? Please? Can we
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: just left to be hysterical witches?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's funny, it's tough, it is tough. But when
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: they say it's all inside your head, you know, like
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: your head is not separate from your from your body,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: like I always find that, And I do think a
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: lot of this does start inside of our brain in
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: the sense of trauma impacts us and unhealed right when
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: we don't have we don't have a healthy adult to
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: attune to our feelings, which most of us Eric were
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: both did not did not have. So we feel this,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: we're it feels complicated for us because we weren't shown
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: what that looks like and what that feels like until
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: we go through this healing process right parent ourselves, to
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: attune to ourselves.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: It's just such a.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: Power right and the way that we're brought up as well,
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: even if it's not traumatic or neglectful or whatever. You know,
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: as girls, as you know, people assigned female at birth,
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: or however you want to what verbiag do you want
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: to use for females, for women's bodies, for people socialized
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: as women, we're taught from a very young age, and
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: this is, you know, a very unconscious thing for many parents,
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: I'm sure, is that you know, little girls are made
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: to be good girls. You know, we're we're not allowed
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: a lot of the time to speak up. We're not
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: allowed to show anger, we're not allowed to have the
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: full expression of emotions. We're not allowed this what is
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: seen as hysteria, Like you say, you know, we're we're
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: kind of put in a box and told to be good.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: Otherwise we're not valid women or valid humans or whatever.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: And that narrative is deeply, deeply wounded, because well, then
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: we're told we're not allowed to speak up, or we're
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: not allowed to express or even ask for help, or
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: it was, you know, we're told we need to say
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: yes to everything and do everything and do it with
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: a smile on our face, and do it with a
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: pretty smile on our face, and do it with a
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: slim body and all this bullshit that we're kind of
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: indoctrinated to believe is expected of us. Like how much
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: pressure is that? I mean that alone?
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: That so your survival is tide ray is tied to
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: to this presentation of being looking of looking a certain way.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: And if you don't, then what does that feel like
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: in the body? Fighter like fight or flight?
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: Like my right.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Depends on on this, on getting good grudes high, you know,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: working this many hours, taking care of the children, taking
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: all the responsibility, being the martyr, like these are the things, yes, supported,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: But oh my god, does it impact your body over time?
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Because that is not authentic truth. I mean, some aspects
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: can be. I'm sure you know, I'm not getting some people.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I'm just like overall authenticity and doctor Port says, mate says,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: you know, authenticity is what heals chronic illness.
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: And ah, absolutely that part of it, exactly right, exactly right.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: I believe that one hundred percent. I've experienced that myself.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: I think that it is the most excruciating thing to
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: get used to is being authentic, sadly is because it's
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: so freeing, but it is the most healing thing you
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: can do. And when you do that in amongst other people,
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: that being authentic as well, like the level, especially for women,
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: the level of like regulating power that that has. It's
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: like the most comforting thing you could possibly experience is
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: other people doing the same thing and accepting you for
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: who you are, and you know, bigging up that validate
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: you for being authentic is the most beautiful thing. And
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: I think that you know, I've said this a few
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: times before online, Like I don't know if you've heard
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: me say this before, but my pain and my suffering
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: was a doorway to my authenticity. And I think that
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: I'd veered so far off the path of authenticity. I
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: was such a performative people please, a perfectionist that I
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: didn't even know who I was right I was, And
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: that comes from trauma and all the rest of the
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: stuff of playing a role in childhood and all of that.
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: But this work of recovery taught me that self advocating
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: agency authenticity is literally the framework and the recipe for
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: recovery of chronic conditions. I mean, I know it sounds
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: absolutely wild, but it's one hundred percent true. And the
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: more that I lean into that and the more that
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: I experience my own authenticity, the more regulating I realized
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: that it is more freeing. I realize that it is.
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: And even though like setting boundaries with people and standing
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: up for yourself and you know, advocating for yourself is
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: awfully uncomfortable at first, you get so used to it
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: that it then becomes your new normal and it's like, well,
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: why aren't is there anyone else doing this.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Like it?
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: Once you'll see it, you can't unsee it, right, It's
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: like you see it in everybody.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Once the veil is lifted, You're like, you can't go.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: Back, you know, no, no, And it's so you see
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: it as well in like, you know, once you kind
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: of come through the worst parts of recovery and you
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: start feeling better, and then you can kind of self
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: reflect in a more automatic way. You see it in
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: your own family. You'll see it in your own mother,
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: You'll see it in your siblings, You'll see it in
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: the people you work with, in anybody you encounter in
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: your job. It's like, wow, man, I see your trauma
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: and your conditioning before I even hear what you're saying,
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: you know, Like it's so rife, so sadly rife.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: It is, and and again it's it's out of it's
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: out of survival.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: It's out of condition, filial.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: And societal, and it's it's so it's so so so
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: layered and like truly like myself, like removing these layers
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: from the onion, so to so to speak, Like I
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: didn't know. I didn't know who I was without being
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: in pain for having chronic illness. I didn't know the
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: literally coined mother Teresa in my social who was I
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: if I was not my mother?
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: Like do you know what I'm saying?
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: Like these things are.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: Why I'm stepping out. I'm stepping out of out of
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: that identity right right.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Of the of the I mean frankly like also the
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: victim related to my chronic illness and of the perfect, perfect.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: Family, remember the perfectness.
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'm not that.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: And there's a lot of grief right like, let's let's.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: Go that's exactly what I just wrote down. It's like
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: there's a there's a death of sorts of an old
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: self right of like who the fuck was that and
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: also like a massive wave of compassion for all those
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: versions of yourself that you had to be to survive.
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: Like it's such a weird journey, but my God, is
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: eye opening, And yeah, it is grief. It is a
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: deep grief because the people. Not only are you losing
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: the part of yourself you were hanging on too that
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: was keeping you safe quote unquote, you're are also like
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: massively disappointing people that were adjusted to your people pleasing self,
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: that were taking advantage of your mother to reasoness Like,
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: you know, you lose people in this journey, and it's
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: a really unfortunate part. And yeah, eventually it is like,
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: well I didn't need them anyway if they were just
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: hanging on to me for what I was doing for them.
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: But it's your old identity, right, It's like your whole
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: reality is just sort of crumbles. And it's not to
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: sort of freak anyone out. It's much better on the
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: other side, believe me, but it's it's really discombobulating for
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: a while to kind of lose sight of well, who
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: the fuck am I? Then yeah, yeah, if I'm I'm
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: just attached to that version of like if I'm not
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: an overproductive, perfectionistic, high achieving bad ass. Not bad ass,
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: but what I feel like I should be in order
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: to be accepted in society and buy my workplace and
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: buy my partner and all that. Then who am I?
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: What am I? God? Underneath all of that, I'm nobody?
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: What am I without all of those shiny traits? And
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: that's a big part of what I know that what
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: you teach as well, is this like sort of homecoming
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: to this innate worthiness that you don't need to be
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: anything else other than exactly what you are. You don't
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: need to be.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you are.
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: There's no need.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: The moment you take your breath, you are inherently worthy. Right,
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: That's it. That's it.
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: But we're told we're not forever. We're told we're not.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: We need to adhere to these rules. We need to
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: make this amount of money, we need to do this,
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: we need to have this, and it's just bullshit. It's
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: making people sick and it needs to stop.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: It's super toxic. It needs to stop. And the thing
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: I just want to backpack off.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Of because you know right now, like I have two
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: sessions this week through Christina.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: I'm you know, this is hard. I like I don't
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: have friends, Like.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: As I'm doing this, like I'm feeling really lonely, and
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: then you know, I can use other examples of another
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: session I had where it's like, Wow, that loneliness, you know,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: led me to this now group of friends who.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: I can keep help with.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: I don't have to I don't have to walk on eggshells,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I don't have to perform, like literally, I just get
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: to be me and they love.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Me for it, And I really want to speak to that.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Like that discomfort if it does happen to you, perhaps
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: it doesn't, but if it does happen to me, please
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: trust that it is so much.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Better on all.
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, Yeah, you'd like you said before about
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: the peeling layers of the onion. It's such a good
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: sort of way to look at it, because you're peeling
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: layers back of yourself, but you're also peeling off old, tattered,
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: worn out shit that's really not serving you anyway. Like,
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: if you're so used to just giving and outsourcing stuff
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: to other people for validation or for other people for
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: self worth or whatever, then that's just an endless pit
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: like until you know, until you can realize that anybody
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: that is worth anything to you will see you for
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: what you are and allow you to be or all
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: of you are messes and everything and all of the
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: rest of it does just become bullshit. But my god,
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: does it feel absolute torture in the meantime, because, like
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: you said, there's grief, there's loneliness, there's like, well, who
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: am I anyway? There's like confusion, there's I can't turn
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: back now because what I've seen is unseeable, and it's
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: like this horrible limbo middle ground where you're like, well,
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: it's a lot of trusting the process. To be fair,
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: I really hope my therapist is right and watching jelly me,
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: you know, but it is. It's a horrible shedding. It's
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: a horrible like shedding of people, shedding of old beliefs,
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: shedding of old personas. And unfortunately the only way out
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: is in to get there. It's horrible, but it's it's
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: so worth it. My god. I've found who did who
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: were my true friends, the ones that stuck around, the
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: ones that see me for who I was I've always
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: have And yeah, I've lost touch with a lot of people,
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: including family members that just don't get it. They don't
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: like the new version of me that speaks to the
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: truth they don't like the version of me that shines
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: a light on maybe their lack of you know, like
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: it's it's such a tough journey, but I would much
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: rather go through that, even though at times I felt like,
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: what the fuck am I doing? Just send me back
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: to my pain. I'd rather be in pain. It's like,
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: I'd much rather, you know, deal with the loss of
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: people that were taking advantage of me or only using
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: me for a certain thing than be in that mess.
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: Like and also it can turn into much more difficult
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: diseases and stuff as well, like Gabon Matte talks about,
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: you know, and like you've experienced yourself and autoimmune and
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: and you know, your body does keep the score. So
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: if it's unaddressed and you leave things like chronic pain
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: or whatever chronic stuff you have on address, then it
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: does just get progressively worse and your world will get
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: progressively smaller.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: It's not something that just goes away.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, No, No, like it's anyway, I'm like, I don't
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: see any other option for in terms of sustainability and evolution.
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: And yeah, it's a wild a wild ride.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: It is a wild ride. And you know, like, you
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: aren't bad ass for getting on this rule.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: If you're listening and you're on the wrong feeling, you
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: are a badass for simply choosing to do this.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: And and sometimes it's not even a choice, right, Sometimes
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: it's just I'm suffering so much, like I need to
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: find a solution for this. It's literally you're forced into
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: it just by your own suffering and your own you know,
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: maybe your own gritin determination that's not allowing you to
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: to just sit in a diagnosis and let it, you know,
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: take over your body and take over your life. It's like,
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: it's so brave to choose to step into this type
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: of work, to to actually face your emotional world, to
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: face what may have got you here, to face some
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: stuff that your family is really not happy that you're
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: digging up. You know, like it's really brave, and it
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: with trust and with patients and with the right support
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: as well, you know, you can you can uncover your
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: most authentic self, which is the most freeing thing you
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: will ever ever do, and meet the right people that
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: you say, meet the exactly right people, maybe the right partner,
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: maybe the right friend group, maybe the right you know,
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: reparenting people in your life that give you the things
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: that you never received in your in your childhood. Like
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: it's it's tough, but it is so worth it.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: Learning to trust yourself, maybe for the first time in
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: your life.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, that other people's.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Stuff is their stuff and has nothing to do with
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: you is also the most freeing, the most freeing.
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: Thing, right, it's the most difficult thing as well.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: Of course, let go, let let go.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but as you let as you let go, you're
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: creating space for what is truly authentic the alignment for you.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: And I mean this is an I think for you too,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Like this is a lifelong process oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: and un learning and learning every single day.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: But wow, once you're on that.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Role, you are and you feel supported, you are you
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: just so danny Like for someone who's who's listening, who's
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: maybe just starting off, and like they're like where do
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: I where do I begin? You guys are saying a
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff like we're I know you have like
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: a membership program, like yeah, what could someone do?
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: So I think one of the first things to suggest
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: is that you ty trait or you baby step your
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: way into this stuff because it's so easy and so
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: common for us high achieving, perfectionistic people to go, give
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: me the give me the hardcore course that's going to
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: give me the PhD in this, and I'll nail it right.
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: I'll just I'll dive in, all guns blazing and I
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: want to smash the granny out of this, when really
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: that's only probably going to make you worse than you
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: already are, because you're the overwhelm you're experiencing in your
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: nervous system needs to be calmed and soothed and brought
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: down a little bit before even the knowledge that you're
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: learning will land. So first of all, taking your time.
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: Second of all, just starting with some learning. So starting
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: with maybe a couple of books or you know, reading
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: the free information on my website. I have a recovery
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: journey roadmap that is sort of six sections of my
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: story intermixed with brain science and you know, backtop rationale
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: and stuff that is like this is the why, this
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: is how to start, this is what to do next, right,
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: but it basically starts with learning, getting some education, sutting
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: out you know, whether or not what you're experiencing is
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: a mind body issue, is something that's rooted in trauma.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: That is something that is your body holding the score
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: sort of thing, and that can be you know where
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: a lot of people get stuck because they might not
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: get the answers that make them believe they are or
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: that they you know, that they get confused by all
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: the modalities out there. So it's like it's a bit
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: of a process of learning and believing in this as
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: your sort of new diagnosis, let's say, and then you know,
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: taking steps to attune to what it is that you
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: need and that it can be a very personal thing.
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: So usually for recovery from chronic conditions involves unsuppressing suppressed emotions,
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: so getting used to being expressive, having some sort of
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: practice every day. And I know that you kind of
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: advocate for this type of daily emotional expression practice where
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: you give yourself some space to emote, You give yourself
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: some space to just tune in and what is happening inside?
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: Can I validate my own experience, you know, some kind
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: of like journal practice or self expression practice is one
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: of the key issues and key things to look at.
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: And also nervous system works, So finding out what it
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: is that's overwhelming your nervous system, looking at your current stressors,
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: your past stressors, your experiences, how that is, you know,
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: impacting your body today and how that's dysregulating you, and
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: how that's making you feel unbalanced or overwhelmed, and just
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: kind of like a first step of taking stock really
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: probably the best way to look at it. It's like,
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: what's happening in my body? What can I learn about
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: what's happening in my body? And how can I reduce
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: the amount of overload that I'm feeling? Like There will
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: be four or five things you could probably put on
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: a piece of paper right now to say, I know
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: that my job is overwhelming me. I know that my
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: partner is triggering me. Or I know that my parents
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: the way that I deal with my parents is deeply overwhelming,
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: or you know, there'll be certain topics that are probably
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: true for most people themes at least parents being one
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: of the number one things. FYI as to what you
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: know keeps our nervous system stuck in a state of survival,
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: in a state of fight or flight, and then the
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: work work is unraveling those things. So, you know, teaching
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: yourself how to behave in a different way than you've
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: always been taught to behave or instead of rushing and
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: overworking and adding more to your plate and saying yes
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: to everything, learning to step back and rest and say
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: no and set boundaries and stuff like that. And I
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: know that that sort of sounds like a lot, but
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: it is for most people a set of kind of
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: progressive steps. So the learning and the understanding comes first,
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: the achievement and the emotional work usually comes next, and
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: the nervous system work then comes along alongside that. So
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: that's a basic premise. But if you go to if
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: you go I've kind of collated all of the resources
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: that I found were the most influential and the clearest
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: and the most sort of simplified on my website, which
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: is my TMS journey dot com, and there's a list
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: of free resources there that you can use. There's no
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: reason to spend thousands of dollars anymore in your recovery.
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: It doesn't have to cost you a penny to understand
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: this stuff. It may take some time, it may take
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: some trial and error, but it's not something that you
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: now have to worry about getting new insurance for or
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: spending all of your savings on that may already be
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: impacted by what you've suffered so far. But all of
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: the stuff that I offer on my website pretty much
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: is free. And then the membership stuff that you mentioned
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: and the coaching that I do obviously is paid for.
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: But that is it's a you know, it's an option.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: It's not an essential thing just for those that can
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: afford a private support network or you know, a paid
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: for things. It depends on the individual. It's not absolutely essential.
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: And a big part of this work as well is
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: like kind of teaching yourself and reminding yourself that your
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: body knows what it needs to do to heal. It's
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: just been given a really shitty set of circumstances and
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: belief systems that have thrown that off kilter, right, that
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: have thrown that out of sorts, and we believe, we're
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: led to believe that we have to trust in men
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: in white coats and spend a lot of money in
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: order to have optimum health. And that's just not true. Yeah,
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: So learning is the first step, really just taking your
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: time to understand the mind body connection, Understand how your
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: trauma may be impacting your physical experience today, Understanding how
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: your emotional world affects your body. And once you get
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: that understanding and that belief in place and the rest,
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: you know, is pretty pretty they're not. It's not easy,
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: but it is a simple set of steps to unravel.
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: But yeah, any kind of research you can do into
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: the mind body connection, gabble Mats's work is great. Sometimes
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: gabble mattes stuff for I guess for a beginner, and
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: this kind of stuff can feel a bit overwhelming and
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: a bit triggering because he does talk about, you know,
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: big illnesses and disease being a consequence of trauma, which
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: can make you feel like, oh shit, now I'm going
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: to get cancer. It's not It's not always the way, right,
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: It's not true really for everybody's experiences that my body
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: connection can can be something as simple as you've always
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: had headaches, or your gut responds a certain way to
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: certain things, or you're hypersensitized to mold or parasites or
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: whatever like we spoke about earlier. Right, It's it's very
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: individu for everybody. It's a slightly different situation. So yeah,
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: learning about the mind body connection is step one. Figuring
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: out where you fit in with that and what your
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: story Your story is important, right, Your how you got
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: here is important and honoring that story is important, which
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: is not easy.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent, and I think it's Smart's like tit
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: trating small small steps, overload, overburdened.
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: The only way really.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I had to learn it the hard way.
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: Time and time and yeah, always a hard way.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: And there's a what is it, the Association of psycho
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: Physiological Disorders.
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: I really like.
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: Them, Yeah that it used to be called the PPDA
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: and now it's called the at NS, which can be
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: confusing to remember all these names, but there's Yeah, the
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: website for those guys is now symptomatic dot and they
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: have a directory of practitioners on there. I believe it's
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: only United States, but they may have worldwide I'm not sure.
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: But they have a simplified set of steps there. They
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: also have like a quiz you can take to figure
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: out whether what you're experiencing could be in mind body
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: condition and not something that you know is a terrible
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: life sentence. And yeah, there's a good there's a good
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: set of sort of information and stuff on there. But
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of books as well, Like any book
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: from doctor Sano is great. There's some newer stuff by
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: Nicole Sachs Mind Your Body is a great book, The
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: Secret Language of the Body. Yeah, Schubeners. I think he's
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: re releasing his Unlearn Your Pain book as well now
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: as a new edition. I think it's on pre order soon.
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: That's excellent. I mean, yeah, there's a there's a list
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: as well on my website of all the sort of
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: key experts in this space as well to follow to
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: sort of open up your network a little bit or
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: your social media to you know, being more eyes on
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: this type of contents. There's some great people there to follow,
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: podcasts to listen to specifically about this. There's an app
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: called Curable as well, which is great for this type
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: of stuff. But all of that is kind of listed
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: on my website if you want one place to go
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: to find a lot of different, diverse resources than my TMS.
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: Journey is where I list all of that stuff and
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: offer you know, share all of my offerings basically beautiful.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, And I was going to say too, like if
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: you feel more comfortable you know, still having you know,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: a doctor a physician in your life, because there's also
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: physical symptoms, you know, like the resources on your website
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: different where you can find different types of providers Like
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: I know, I have some providers in my life who
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: are all about this this work, so they get to
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: really go well with each other. But you are generally
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: speaking paying your especially it's private.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: Paying your provider way around, like right, you see is
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: this person the right but that goes for a therapist,
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: a coach, et cetera.
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, and like you said on the on the
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: ATMs website as well, they have a director of Practitioners
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: of medical practitioners, of therapeutic practitioners of coaches. They've just
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: added recently as well. So if you do need which
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: is really common people get stuck in the sort of
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: well I need a doctor to tell me what is what?
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: They have a list of practitioners there that you can
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: do telehealth with that you can visit. You know, there's
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: a list of like by state or whatever if you
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: need to have that type of peace of mind, you know,
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: can be crucial for many people to actually understand this
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: from a medical perspective, but from a broader knowledged medical perspective.
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: There are practitioners that do that in the UK. It's
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: it's slightly behind, but we are working on having that
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: type of stuff like surper is is a good website
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: to visit. Si r P. It's an organization that does
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: training for practitioners as well in my body space. They
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: have therapist coaches and medical practitioners there as well. I'm
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: actually speaking to an English GP in a couple of
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: days to try and figure out whether there is like
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: a network of practitioners that know about this that is
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: in Europe at least that's you know, UK based for
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: the moment, but then is you know, can do telehealth
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: in Europe as well to offer that as a service
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: of like I can refer people that I'm working with
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: or people that I know or people that I'm helping
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: to a medical practitioner to get that kind of you know,
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: expert opinion type stuff. Is it something that I can't do.
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: I can't diagnose someone. I can give you my best,
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: you know, my best analysis of it, but it's way
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: out of my wheelhouse to say to somebody, oh, well,
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: that's definitely a mind body issue unless it's something very
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: obvious like fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue or something that is
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: just very very black and white always in my body
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: issue typically. So yeah, there's lots of support out there basically,
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: and if anybody needs, you know, direction and help. Like
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: my inboxes always open just to be able to direct
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: people in the right way. Right. It's not like I'm
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: you know, only available if I'm paid to be available
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: at all. Like most of the stuff I offer is free,
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: and I'm doing this to help people. It's it's what
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: we need in the world.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Really, Amen, Amen, thank you, Thank you for them and
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: for those who want to find you.
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: How how can they? How can they?
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah? So, I mean my website is MYTMS journey dot com.
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: My social media profiles are all of the same name.
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: Or you can search Danny Fagan, which is d A
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: N I F A G A N and all of
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: my stuff should come up. I'm most active on Instagram, Facebook, yeah,
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: and in my own communities on private Facebook groups. But
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: who find me on Instagram or Facebook easily or email
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: me based you know, from my website. You can email
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: me at Danny at TMS journey dot com just for
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: questions or you know, if you have questions based on
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: this episode, you can do that. Whatever whatever you need,
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: I can hopefully help point you in the right direction
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: if I can't help you myself.
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: Amazing. Okay, two more questions is when is your book
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: to be released?
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: God Lord, Yeah, I wish I knew I wrote. I
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: started writing it a couple of years ago and then
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: had a massive bout of overwhelm and procrastination and am
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: I good enough and all of that shit story imposter syndrome,
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: and I put it on the back burner for ages.
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: But I came back from that ceremony that I spoke
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: to you about in Portugal a few months ago, and
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: I had this huge bout of creative energy basically, and
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: I kind of I say I've finished it, but I've
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: been saying I've finished it for weeks. So let's see,
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: I'm hoping within the next month or so, it will
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: be at least open for pre order, So the information
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: will be on my on my social media, and it
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: will be on my website. But it's it's called enough
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: Being a Good Girl is making You Sick the working title,
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: so it's it's aimed at women, but it's it's relevant
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: for everyone. But it's it's kind of the the the
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: correlation between childhood trauma, good girl conditioning, and chronic illness. Basically,
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: it's that process. So within the next month or so
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: and now I've said it out loud, I will have
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: to stick to that. Yeah, I know, right, Yeah, If
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: I promised it to you, that's it.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: And then what is if there's one thing for listeners
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: or watchers that you love to have them leave with,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: what would it be.
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: The biggest, most important part of this in my eyes
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: and what I see in my clients day, is that
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: you cannot heal a body you're at war with you
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: part of like one of the biggest disregulators of our
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: nervous system is self criticism, self contempt, self hatred, self
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: will call, or whatever you want. Anything that is not supportive, encouraging, loving,
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: attuned is not helping you. And self contempt can be
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: like living your life with a gun to your head,
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: which clearly is keeping a stuck in fight or flight.
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: So if there's one thing that you can do to
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: you can't fast track, but to propel or to kind
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: of like optimize. I hate that word, but another word
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: is not available to me right now. To improve your
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: chances of healing quickly, let's say, is to support yourself
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: one hundred percent, and that in itself as a journey
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: get into a point where you don't fight with yourself
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: every fucking five minutes is a journeying in itself, but
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: it's one of the most important ones because you can
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: learn tools, you can learn about the nervous system, you
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: can learn from the greatest, you can learn from Jesus himself.
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: And it won't work if you have a battle on
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: the inside. One of the most fight orf flight experiences
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: you can have is self contempt. So try and be
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: a little bit more loving to yourself, a bit more supportive,
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: be the person that you needed as a child in
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: order to feel safe, in order to feel supported, to
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: feel a tune too. Treat yourself well. Treat yourself with
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: love and compassion and forgiveness. And if you fall back
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: into the old pattern of hating yourself and beating yourself
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: up and thinking that's motivational forgive yourself, take a deep breath,
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: give yourself a hug, all the things, and try again.
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: Like That's another type of rebirthing in this journey is
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: finding out who you are and loving who you are.
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: Like meeting yourself at every age, every stage, at every
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: part of your life where you felt like you know
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: you fucked up, or you failed, or you did something
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: bad or whatever, is like that ship needs to go,
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: that shit needs to be healed, that shit needs to
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: be loved held, and then everything else becomes easier.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: Never I'm less less worthy of love for these for
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: these things, or even it's like that's the whole journey
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: of unconditioneding ourselves and showing ourselves and even if we
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: do fall back or go to the side, that they'll
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: deserve the love, like hey, it's I mean myself, it's
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: like I'm able to catch it so much faster, and.
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: These voices this, hey, right, we all make mistake.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: I love you, We'll try to do better.
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: Exactly, and having having those messages kind of reinforced around
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: you as well, whether that's from the media that you're
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: that you're absorbing or that you're learning from, or that
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: you're following, or that you're you know, your partner is
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: on the same page, your family's on the same page,
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: or the people that you're interacting with, the people's company
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: that you keep are singing the same song. Right, it's
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: not just you fighting this battle. It's like a tuman
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: and care and love and support needs to be first
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: and foremost from the inside, but also in the company
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: that you keep, and that the media that you consume,
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: so that helps to write unfollow people that tell you
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: need to be thinner, and you need to run faster,
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: and you need to optimize your life within an inch
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: of itself, and you need to wake up at a
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: certain time, and you need to do cold plunges and
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: you need to fucking detox and all this bullshit. Take
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: a breath, Ask yourself, what do you need, what do
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: you enjoy? What do you need to feel safe? What
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: does make you feel safe?
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: And start with that, like does this person bring me
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: more expansiveness or more fear into my life?
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: Right? Exactly is it love or is it fear? What
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: am I doing this practice route and fear? Am I
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: doing it out of love for my body? Like? This
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: is this could be a whole episode, which could be
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: a series of whole podcast in and of itself. Really,
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: but it's so crucial and so many people miss this
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: part out. So I think it's hard. It's important. It
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: is hard, but it's important to say that you know
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: that relationship with yourself is the most one of the
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: most important things you will ever change and do for
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: your health.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: Amen, Yes, Louder.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, Danny, thank you so much for coming on here
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: an incredible interview and you're amazing.
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: Thank you you babe, So are you?
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, thank you for doing your own
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: healing work to show up and help others do the same.
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: You are.
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: You are a lighthouse this community.
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: You. Oh, bless you. Thank you so much. Christina, and
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: I say the same about you. I think there's there's
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: a very specific type of person that you get drawn to,
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: I think, in this space and you're doing it like
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: you're living it. You're doing it, and you know there's
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: no better way to trust the practitioner than someone that's
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: walked the walk themselves. Right. It's like, you can't really
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: go to school for this if you haven't experienced it,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: then yeah, good luck with that.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: Not everyone gets to invite the Hogwarts, is what I
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: tell my Nah.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: That's so true. Yeah, that's so true. I appreciate you
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: so much, and thank you for inviting me on. I
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: really appreciate it. It's been lovely.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and go follow Danny you you won't be disappointed.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: And everyone who tuned in to listen or.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: To watch, we appreciate you. We love you have a
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: nice figure. But