Latest / Get Real with Jim Weiss / Oriana Kraft, Founder of ORI

Transcript

Oriana Kraft, Founder of ORI · Get Real with Jim Weiss

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: If we have healthy women, we're going to be healthier
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: as a society.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I one hundred percent agree with that, But
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: I guess, like, how do you think that the message
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: can get across more clearly? Because I don't think people
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: are inherently thinking if we have healthier women, we have
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: a healthier society. I don't think the emphasis is really
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: being placed on the health of women's well.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: I think it's what we're doing. We have to do
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: more of this dialoguing.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I definitely feel that, hey, everyone, it's Jim Weis's time
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: to get real with Oriana Kraft today, who started a
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: great business called or who we ran across each other
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: through our mutual work with the Healthcare Women's Business Association.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: She's really a power woman.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: You know, she's breaking new ground on how to make
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: women healthier in the workplace, something that's so critical.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: I've talked about it over in Davos, and I've been
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: speaking about it actually for a very long time. If
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: women are not healthy, we don't have a healthy society.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: And this is the kind of person and business that
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: we want to be tuning into support and understanding.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: So fasten your seatbelts.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: We're going to have a good time with Oriana and
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: you're going to learn a lot.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Thanks for coming to the podcast, Thanks for having me.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: I really appreciate it.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: You light up every panel that I ever meet you at,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: So it was time to get you here in the podcast.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Look we met at HbA. I know it's done this
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: for me. How his HbA shaped your focus or your
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: passion founding the company that you've been involved in.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I was a speaker, so I was invited. They did
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: a gender health summit at Nevartis. It was their second
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: summit and I was invited to speak, and Mary was
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: there and Mary Stats, writ CEO of HBI, I know
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: that women's health is really a focus of hers and
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: championing women's health in the workplace one. Historically, I think
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: HbA before was more focused on sort of just supporting
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: women in the workplace more generally, and here she was
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: just like, how can we emphasize women's health? And I
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: think twofold with HbA one is a better understanding of
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: the corporate dynamics. And then the second was we partnered
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: with them Onto Reports. One was the state of Women's
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Health in the Workplace, where we surveyed HbA members across
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: the globe, across forty two countries, one thousand women to
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: understand what the gaps were. And that was really useful
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: to have like concrete data about these member companies to
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: show that less than ten percent of women feel sufficiently
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: supported by their employer in terms of women's health in
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: the workplace. Seventy percent of these women had lost between
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: one to five days of productivity from the last month
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: alone due to women's health issues. And that was useful
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: to be able to say, I think corporations at a
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: tendency to think that general statistics don't.
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: Apply to them.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: They would be like, we're great for women's health, and
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: here we had numbers to show you know, this is
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: a global problem and that means that it applies to
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: you too.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Did that project change your perspective and maybe deepen your
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: commitment and passion to what you're doing, or did it
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: just confirm things you'd already learned?
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: It confirmed it, but it was nice to see, I guess.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: We asked some other questions, like what was the appetite
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: for a women's health tool in the workplace right, and
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: that was like seventy five percent of women wanted a
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: tool to help them navigate their health. That was nice
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: to see that that was like such a concrete number.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: And the other survey we partnered with them on surveying
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: physicians across the globe and that did surprise me because
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: it was mostly male physicians who'd been practicing for over
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: ten years in a variety of geographies, and that really
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: showed that physicians see the gap in clinical practice and
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: are asking for tools. I think there's a lot of
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: stereotypes that physicians are subject to, and I thought that
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: it would be a younger, more female population that would
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: really be noticing these gaps, and so it was encouraging
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: to see that. It's sort of like everybody would like
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: better solutions and then it's on us to.
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: Provide them with it.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Let's take us back so people get to know you
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: a little bit or A started as a thesis project
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: in med school, and can you kind of walk us
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: through how that evolved into this more global movement.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I studied medicine at etch Zark, which is an engineering school.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: They really wanted to shape the future generation of doctors
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: to be comfortable manipulating technology, so they wanted us to have,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: you know, some big data, some mechanical engineering, which I
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: kind of thought it at the time, but now you know,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: especially with AI, like a lot of the fundaments that
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: they gave us are very useful.
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: But yeah, so it was all about.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: What will the future of medicine look like, right, and
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: that there was already a lot of conversation about that
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: it'll be data centric and so with that there's this
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: focus on innovation. When they talked about women's health, so
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: like the first time I learned about pcos which impacts
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: the ten percent of women, or endometriosis, which impacts ten
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: percent of women, it was in gynecology class. The time allocated,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: as has been well documented, was like forty five minutes
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: as compared to four weeks. Right, Diabetes and endometriosis impact
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: the same amount of women, but you spend four weeks
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: on diabetes and you spend forty five minutes on endometriosis.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: And that's why it takes about seven and a half
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: years to get diagnosed with endometriosis. And then when we
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: were being introduced to these conditions, it was just we
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: don't have any effective diagnostics, we don't have any effective therapeutics.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Moving on, nothing's really changed since Queen victoria and demetrosis essentially,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: and that didn't really sit right with me. And because
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: it was a medical school that was supposed to be
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: exposing us to this new innovation, this new research, I
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: want to see what was going on there, and so
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: as my thesis, I created this thing called GEM Technology Summit,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: which brings together femtech startups, researchers, unicians, and corporates for
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: three hundred and sixty degree perspective on innovation of women's
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: health because I wanted to see what was out there essentially,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: and it turned out that there were a lot of
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: other people who also wanted to see what was out
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: there in terms of innovation. So that's how we grew
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: it into a global movement. We partnered with Roche. We
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: hosted the third edition of the summit at their headquarters,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: tackling things like AI and the gender data health gap,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Women's centric cancer care, the Business Case for Women's Health,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: redesigning healthcare as women in Mind, and all the workshops
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: that we did then went on to have lives of
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: their own. So the Women's Centric Cancer Care Report that
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: got published off the back of the summit was presented
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: that the US Chamber of Commerce on how employers could
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: better support their employees living with cancer. The Redesigning Healthcare
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: with Women in Mind open letter got launched at the
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: World's Economic Forum and now has a bunch of corporate signatories.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: And so through all that basically.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Mapping out the innovation ecosystem and landscape and getting exposed
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: to all these different actors, the conclusion that I came
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: to is, yeah, we definitely need more solutions and more
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: research in women's health, but what already exists isn't being applied.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: And if there's no translation, right, it doesn't matter how
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: much you innovate, it's never going to reach the patient
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: or the bedside or the clinician. And so that's really
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: what OR, which stands for Outcome Research and Innovation, is
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: designed to do. It's to centralize existing innovation and knowledge
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: in women's health to connect it to women based on
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: their condition.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Can you just, in the simplest terms, explain what ORI
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: is and what it's designed to do as a business,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: as a company.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I guess it's like if you had a doctor that
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: was super well versed in women's health. You would assume
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: that most doctors are, but unfortunately they're not. And so
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: it's trained uniquely on the female model of health. So
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: it's a personalized care navigator for women's health and handles
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: everything from pre diagnosis to you're already diagnosed and looking
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: for a solution. Is it takes the best of what
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: we know will lead to the best outcomes in women's health,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: what the current status like gold standard researches, and then
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: innovation incorporating innovative solutions in women's health that are more
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: tailored to women's quality of life. The service offering on
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: the employee side is it's a personalized care navigator, so
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: it helps a bunch of different pathways. One is helping
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: diagnose women, helping them connect the dobts between what they're
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: experiencing in a potential condition. One is connecting them to
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: an optimal solution for their condition, right if they've already
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: been diagnosed. And then there's also a proactive component. There's
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of women's health conditions that are extremely common
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: and you could just ask women about it and you
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: would be able to connect them to care. For example,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: like helvichlora dysfunction impacts one in three women. At certain
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: moments in your life, you're more likely to experience it
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: would be very simple to just proactively address those issues.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: And so who uses that?
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Is this something that any and one of OSCAR download
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: or is this something for doctors or payers or employers?
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Who's the target customer right now?
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Right now, it's employer sponsored. So it's it's for employees
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: in the workplace. And the side I just described is
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: the employee facing side, and the employer facing side is
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: really the data collection.
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: So what are their.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Top cost drivers? How can they intervene to drive down costs?
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: What are employees looking for? It's kind of creating a
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: feedback loop.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: So why you why Oriana? For Ori?
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: One is I think I equipped with a unique skill set,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: like I was fortunate enough to study medicine, I was
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: given an engineering background which is particularly relevant in DAN
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: and age, and then I just backed into it. I
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: didn't expect the initial summit to have so much action
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: and appetite. But the thing is, like every single woman
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: experienced multiple of these conditions that are just it's frustrating, right, Like,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: if it's so common, how is it possible that we
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: still have such a lack of solutions and knowledge and
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: you're essentially being gas lit. The thing, it's just kind
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: of have this skills to do something about it, so
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: I want to. And the other answer, though, is while
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: I was studying medicine, my dad was digues with pank
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: credit cancer, and I saw from a very different perspective
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: what the healthcare system look like. He was a white
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: man in Switzerland who was a medical doctor himself, and
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: that means he got the best possible care you can
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: reasonably expect to get. He was extremely privileged, and it
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: was still horrific to experience firsthand. And I know that
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: as a woman, statistically, I'm less likely to receive the
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: same standard or care, and so that doesn't really sit
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: rive with me, right like, not only for me, but
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: like everyone that I love that just by virtue of
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: the way you're born you get a substandard care.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Your company has three key areas of focus, employer economics,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: data collection. Can you talk more about or now and
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: explain how these parts work together to improve the care
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: for women in real time?
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: I liked how you put that.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: I think in healthcare one of the trickiest things to
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: cracks in the business model who are you creating value?
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Four?
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: Who's incentivized to pay?
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: And, as it turns out, in women's health there's a
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: very clear business case for employers. I mean I touched
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: upon briefly the fact that we quantified the productivity gap. Right,
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: seventy percent of women reported losing between one to five
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: days of productivity due to women's health issues in the
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: last month alone. So there's the productivity thing. When you
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: add that up, you're losing a minimum of seven thousand
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: dollars a year annually, probably more, and that's millions depending
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: on how many employees you have. Then there's also the
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: direct health care costs. So women between the age of
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: forty five and sixty five, they cost twenty one percent more.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: In direct health care costs.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: And so that's not maternity because that forty five typically
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: women are not giving birth to children. And so there's
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: both an indirect in terms of productivity and a direct
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: increase in costs employers are paying for women's health being
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: inadequately addressed in our healthcare system.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: You talk about this data gap, there's a significant difference
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: between the data that defines men's and women's health.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: How did you.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: It's been pretty well documented that women were not included
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: in equal volume to men in clinical trials, which means
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: that's why women are significantly more likely to experienced adverse
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: drug reactions from basically all the medication that we use today.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: So something that really stood out to me was, like
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: cardiovascular disease. We've known since about the eighties that there
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: are the significant differences in the way symptoms present between
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: men and women in cardiovascular disease. So we've known this
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: since the eighties, and yet still today it's not commonplace.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's starting change, but I would only say
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: for the last couple of years, it's not commonplace for
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: like the average individual to know that these symptoms manifest
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: dradically differently. And even in medical school. I remember a
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: friend was recounting to me when they were having a
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: refresher course on cardiovascular disease. It was listing the way
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: all the symptoms presented in men, and then there was
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: like an asterisk, and they said, but remember it presents
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: differently in women. Remember it presents differently for fifty one
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: percent of the population. They didn't even list the symptoms.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, it's like a dual ledge sort like,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: on one hand, we didn't really properly study women. But
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: even the stuff that we do know and has well
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: established for a very long time. Is still not translating.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: You learn always about like the prevalence of conditions in
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: medical school, and for every single auto immune condition, you
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: just see like there are these multitudes of factors that
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: it was higher in women, that they never explained why.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: There's just all these things you learned that nobody explains why,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: and it turns out we just don't know, and nobody
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: bothered the study or to ask. That's part of the
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: challenge in women's health, that there's a lot of things
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: that are just not we just don't know. We don't
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: have the foundation for them, right.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know that it's so evident in space, I
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: mean going through diagnosis. And I heard this from Mary,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: our mutual friend, my own wife, who took a year
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: to get diagnosed. Only a CT scan did it, but
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: we didn't get one for a long time, And when
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: we went to the emergency room with a situation that
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: was causing her even more acute symptoms, the doctor said, well,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: it's very common that you might not diagnosis in an
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: otherwise healthy fifty five year old. So there's just a
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: lot of sort of assumptions that I think are prevalent
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: among female and male doctors.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: It's pretty well documented that there's Yentel syndrome right where
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: a middle aged woman will show up having a heart
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: attack and they'll just dismiss it as anxiety. I mean,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: it's interesting that you say men and women because there
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: is some research antecdotally that suggests that your women are
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: more likely to survive if they have a female surgeon.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, I don't think it's clear cut.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: There's also been studies that show that men are more
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: likely to die following a hip fracture because of these
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: gender biases, because they're less likely to receeeve screening because
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: we associate kind of osteoporosis as a women's disease.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: So, look, this costs money. Employers really need to know.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: What are some of the costs you've seen employers face,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: because women's healthcare is an addressed as well as it
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: could be.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: It's a minimum of seven thousand dollars per female employee
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: annually just in direct health care costs than in direct
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: health care costs. It depends obviously on the condition, but
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: for a condition like endometriosis, which again ten percent of
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: women have, that's twelve thousand dollars just indirect healthcare costs.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: There's even studies that show that between men and women
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: who experience diabetes, women incur a two thousand extra dollars
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: in direct health care costs on average. So it's just
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: incredibly expensive. But that again doesn't have to be that way, Like,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: there's nothing to say that women aren't inherently more expensive.
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: It's just that the healthcare system doesn't address their needs.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Women with endemetrious is lose an average of ten point
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: eight hours of work weekly, and so again that's tremendous costs,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: both in terms of direct and indirect costs. And also
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I think what makes women's health particularly interesting to tackle
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: is if you tackle it earlier on, you prevent a
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: lot of the downstream costs. So endemetrious is pcos these
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: are all root causes of infertility, and there's a lot
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: of attention being paid right to fixing kind of fertility
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: problem and a lot of money being thrown at that
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: with like kind of IVF all these things that are
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: quite expensive and don't necessarily always work. But if you
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: caught it further upstream and addressed it, you'd be saving
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: a lot of money in the long run. The same thing,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: by the way for menopause, if it's not managed properly,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: it can manifest in cardiovascular issues or poorly managed like diabetes.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: If you managed it better earlier on, if you prevent
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: these more expensive downstream costs.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: What are some of the overlooked costs that contribute to
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: these big numbers. You're paying fifteen billion dollars more in
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: healthcare costs than working men, what are some of these costs?
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Well, so the fifteen billion is referring to an out
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: of pocket study, which is also probably too low, but
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: it just shows that even if you do apples to apples,
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: and we're just saying, like, what are employers covering in
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: terms of benefits design and they assume that it's like
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: kind of gender neutral, women are paying two hundred dollars
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: more out of pocket, But there was like another study
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: that just came out from good RX that actually showed
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: that number was a lot higher. But basically, like just
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: the baseline of what is covered by insurance is women
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: are paying more and they're making less, So it's just
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: also a larger percentage of their paycheck. But what contributes
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: to those larger costs, I mean, it really depends on
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: the condition. But it's like going multiple times to the
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: doctor brandometriosis. Because women and are indabilitating pain, it's er
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: visits emergency room is notoriously expensive. They don't necessarily know
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: what's happening, and so then they're showing up in the
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: emergency room. For some of these, like pcos, you have
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: a higher likelihood of having diabetes or cardiovascular implications, So
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: that's a downstream costs.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Well, let's stay with diabetes. I mean, everybody can accept
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: that as a really big disease that everyone gets that
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: everyone's susceptible to for various reasons. And you said treating
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: diabetes and women can cost significantly more than treating diabetes
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: and men.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: Why is that?
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: As with everything with women's health, it's like a multitude
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: of factors converging. One is that women are just less
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: likely to see the standard of care. So like you
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: have a gold standard set in clinical guidelines and you
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: have a doctor is less likely to prescribed and to
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: implement those regiments for women as they are compared to men,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: so they're not getting equal treatment. It's like the same
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: way for Cardiovaski, a disease, women are fifty percent more
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: likely to be misdiagnosed following a heart attack. That's just
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: like gender biases, it's not presenting in the same way,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: and so they're less likely to get diagnosed and they're
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: less likely to be prescribed sort of status and what
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: they should be being prescribed when they're discharged. So that's
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: one thing. The other is women are diagnosed on average
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: later than men. So there was a study that came
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: out from the European Diabetes Association, I think like two
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: years ago now that showed that there were a large
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: and a significant portion of the population in England of
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: women are missing the diabetes diagnosis because we fail to
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: take into account the fact that women menstruate, and so
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: part of the reason why women are often diagnosed in
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: later years is when they're kind of postmenopausal, and so
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: the cutoff threshold is basically set too high. It's set
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: on the male baseline and not the female baseline, taking
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: into account that women lose red blood cells each month
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: when they menstruate. Those are the two core reasons women
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: are diagnosed later, So when they've already had more complications
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: and are in a worse state, they're more likely to
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: have like weight issues. And then the other is that
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: they're just less likely to receive the care that they
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: should be receiving.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I see a lot more proactivity, including yours.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: It's obviously at the end of the day.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: One of the things I said in Davis where we met,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: was you got to put the oxygen on first women
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: and then take care of the rest of the family, right,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: because that's.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: One of the issues.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: They take care of everybody else, but who's taken care
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: of them. If we have healthy women, we're going to
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: be healthier as a society.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: Do you agree with that?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I one hundred percent agree with that. But
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I guess if I can ask you a question because
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: kind of flipping the script, like, how do you think
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: that the message can get across more clearly? Because I
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: don't think people are inherently thinking if we have healthier women,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: we have a healthier society. I don't think the emphasis
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: is really being placed on the health of women. How
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: do you think the message can get across?
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Well, I think it's what we're doing.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: We have to do more of this dialoguing and guys
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: have to get involved in it more. You probably know this,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: but you know hospitals don't have systems to adequately support
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: women with cancer. Sometimes you sit here and wonder, is
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: it just the whole system? And I don't care if
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: you're a guy or a girl, You're going to get
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: shredded up in it. So it's helping women talk about
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: this more openly, and it's also about bringing it out
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: in the open to broad populations. But I think it
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: has to start with women first. You've got to know
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: the numbers, You've got to be aware. That's why I
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: like your model, because I think you're very much about
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: the data first, and the information and tying it to
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: the economy and tying it to the money and God
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: talk about good timing.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's always been my thesis.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: I think people were a little bit ingenuous before when
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: they were like women's health, it's good for society. I
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: think it is good for society, don't get me wrong,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: But I think people tend to not think see how
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: it applies to them. People see the stats and somehow
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: think that they're immune from the stats. So you have
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: to show them how it impacts them. But I think
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: it's somehow become politicized in a way that I don't
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: know why diabetes would be a political issue.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Well, it's not political if you're standing up for your health.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: As an advocate for my wife, I think I did
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: see some of the issues in these hospitals relative to
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: treating cancer. I can't say that it was maybe drastically different,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: to be honest, for men that I could see. I
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: saw men and women in these chemo centers and all
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the rest.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I just think that, like when you see the stats,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: you understand that the quality of life of certain patient
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: populations are just not prioritized to the same degree. They
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: did compare men and women going through break e therapy
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: and showed that ninety percent of men were asked about
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: the sexual side effects of their cancer treatment versus ten
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: percent of women. That's where you start to see the differences.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Right Then you go into the stats more and you
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: see that women experience fifty percent worre side effects from immunotherapy.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: They weren't adequately included in the trials. Yeah, I think
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: nobody loves the system, but the system works better for
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: some people than I just farmers.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Well, but I did see my wife ask a lot
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: of questions, questions I didn't think of, so she advocated
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: for herself. Ultimately, she learned as she went I think
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: about her quality of life ultimately, and then I could
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: go along. I think it's about teaming up as you
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: go through it.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: The data helps.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I mean there's no question that being able now to
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: go online and even query these databases with a I
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: think we can know more now than we knew a
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: year ago in Google searches the quality. I've had some
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: conversations with people that chat GBT and perplexity, and some
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: of the newer platforms in AI are better. So I'm
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: assuming that's some degree that or a potential the or
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: model to get answers and determine direction and what questions
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: to ask and how to get better treatment.
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, for sure.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: I mean it already is easier, right, But it's also
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: that they're fed on the whole Internet, right, And perplexity
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: for example, to find a woman experienced a heart attack
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: as atypical and the man was typical.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: These biases are entrenched in the Internet and people are
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: actually having like great outcomes. But you do need guardrails.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I think with our thing where it's proactive is like
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: a patient doesn't always know what to ask and what
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: to look for, right, Like a patient with PCOS might
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: not know that they're at higher risk for suicidal ideation
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: and for eating disorders and for diabetes, but that's included
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: in the clinical guidelines. You can create an optimal path
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: of care.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, we find doctors who work in female associated
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: specialties make less money, so how does that affect the
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: quality of care?
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: The thing about the female specialists, there was just a
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: report that came out that showed that euro gynecologists versus
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: urologists like apples to apples and atomical procedures, you get
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: reimburse less for operating on a woman's You just need
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: to fix a lot of the reimbursement, which is obviously
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: much more complicated because there's a limited amount of money, right,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: so what are you going to take away from certain
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: other specialties. I think that's part of the promise of
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: AI's personalization. Right now, everything is very like one size
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: fits all, and that does a disservice to basically all
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: of us. That's the first step is trying to embed personalization.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Ask patients what matters to them. It's the principle of
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: like shared decision making, is involving them in the whole process.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: But then I think at.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: A certain point we're not there yet, but we'll hit
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: a bottleneck of like, there are just certain aspects of
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: women's health where you just don't have that many options.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: You want to offer options to the patient, but like
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: when it comes to birth control, right there's options, and
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: I think that that's where like pharma could play a
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: role in expanding that optionality.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: I pretty much believe that if you take the word
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: of what your physician or your system, or even what
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: you find online at face value and move along, that
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: you're probably putting yourself at risk and that you can't
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: know enough, or learn enough, or understand enough. And this
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: idea of personalization goes down to do I understand the
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: molecular elements of my disease, including cancer, heart disease, whatever
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: it is. I need to really get deep on this
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: if I want to make sure I have longevity. And
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know how you feel about that or that's practical,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: maybe it's not, and maybe we over obsess about our health,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: but is there anything more important?
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: I think people have a tendency to say to women
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: that they should self advocate, be your own advocate, And
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I think I'd like us to get to a place
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: and hopefully ORI can do that where we kind of
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: move away from that. It's a lot to put on women.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I mean you talk about like Cheer says, you see
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: seven years, five different providers pcos you also have to
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: go to three different providers. You have to be so
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: fucking rexillent. Sorry, but like you have to really like
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: be determined, and people might tell you you're crazy or
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: it's all on your head. Like roach to this thing
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: my story for Change where they collected six hundred stories
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: from women across the globe and it's all that they're
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: essentially being gas lit. I think we've reached a place
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: in society where women maybe now know that Davie, I'm
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: not going crazy that these conditions, to my point, are
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: extremely common. But I'd like us now to move away
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: from women be your own advocate to hopefully with a
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: tool like ory, you have the advocate in your own
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: pocket that is guiding you, that has your best interests
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: at heart. Is that personalize and care for you. Doctors
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: are supposed to be there to care for you, right,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't be fighting against them well.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: For you know, improving the future of women's healthcare.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: How can my listeners, employers, healthcare leaders, policy makers, How
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: can they get involved.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it would be great if everybody
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: used or in their workplace. But I think the first
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: thing that they could do is also to ask questions,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: because I think a lot of employers have just never
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: thought to ask, like, never thought to look to see
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: if that there were differences in the costs that they
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: were incurring, to whether their benefits were equal for both
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: men and women.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: So that's the first thing, is just look.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: And then I think if you look, you'll start to
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: notice in disparities. And then it would be great if
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: you did take action on it with a tool like
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: or because it's quite comprehensive or others. And I think
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: also use their voices. I think employers in the healthcare
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: system don't really realize the influence that they have, but
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: they have the ability, especially in the US, to shape policy,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: and so women's health should be at the top of
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: the agenda in my opinion.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, I obviously have a different type of business
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: or healthcare marketing firms, but women improve my plan. The
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: women who work for me literally changed elements of the plan.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: They asked questions about it, and they made sure that
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: we had the right elements for everything from fertility planning prevention,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: So we really did add things based on what they said.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: So I do think it's worth telling people, tell us
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: what's in that plan as it relates to women's health.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think pelvic floridasfunction is an obvious one
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: that tends to not be covered to the degree it
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: should be given how prevalent it is. It depends on
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: how innovative people want to be. For diabetes, for example,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: right like you talked about the diagnostic threshold is a
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: set too high, but you could change the plan design
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: that women are allowed to push for more proactive measures
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: even if they don't fall in the range that like
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: the insurance company wants to cover if you cover it
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: in your benefit and plan design. I think it's really
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: kind of an organ system by organ system, look at
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: the differences and then look at does it adequately address things.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Let's ask some questions that are a little lighter, and
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: then I always ask my guests because I always want
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: to know. So tell me what is your guilty pleasure?
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: So mine is easy. I'll give you my eye. I
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: like to watch, you know, Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: That's one of my guilty pleasures, Like relax, watch other
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: people's look crazy lives unfold.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: That's why I like reality TV.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been getting weirdly obsessed with a lot of
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: like podcast call Her Daddy's One.
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: Kylie Kelsey. I don't if they're guilty pleasures and not
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: they're fun.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: You're not guilty? Yeah, yeah, I love it.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess they're really Yeah, Well, I have guilt,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: you know, around a pleasure. But if you were on
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: a desert island, what album would you take if you
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: only had one album to take?
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Not only Tiller schlists popping into my head, I think
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: the Beatles, but I wouldn't be able to Yeah, I
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to name the album.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what would your expira?
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Mine is always grateful, dead related but I probably could
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: sing those in my head anyway. But yeah, that's what
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I would typically take my second one. Oddly enough, and
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I've said this, maybe it's a guilty pleasure, is Madonna?
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: That's good?
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Well, you're you know, you're writing a really incredible story here.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: You're an entrepreneur who's from one entrepreneur to another. You know,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I have like mad respect and very excited about what
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: you've done. I'm a big believer in data driving decisions
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: and knowledge is power, because I do think once the
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: problem is defined, it's a lot.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Harder to manage in the current system.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: The system, oddly enough, is set up for that, but
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: it is not adequate for that. So the best defense
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: we all have that is to stay out of the system,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: and you can only do that by prevention anyway. Thanks
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: for spending this time with me and spreading the word.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Look forward to continued conversation.
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Hey everyone, thanks for joining me on the Get Real podcast.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: You know, I hope you feel a little healthier hanging
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: out with me. You know it's going to be a
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: lot of fun. Passing this along to others. Please subscribe below,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Please share. I'm excited not just to talk about healthcare,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: but a lot of other fun topics. It's about making healthy.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Talk about healthcare is not a lecture. This is supposed
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: to be fun and look forward to spending more time
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: with you in the future.