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Dollars And Sense · Everyone Has An Ex

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land and waters this podcast
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: is recorded on. This episode contains strong language. Listener discretion
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: is advised. Do you believe in life after love? Well,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: unlike Cher, Jessia did. She didn't believe in twin flames, soulmates,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: any of that. Her marriage had fallen apart and she'd
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: been hurt, yes, But that didn't make her give up
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: on believing for a single moment.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: I was like looking for my silver fox. I'm like anyone,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: you know, like I come across as a pretty strong
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: and independent. You know, I've got a really good, tough mask.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: But I still wanted my prince. You know, we all
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: want our prince. And that's okay too, to want that.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: I didn't want my girls also to think that that's
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: not an opportunity to have love. You know, love comes
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: in many forms. And it comes once, twice, three times.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: You know, no twin flames here. But yeah, so whilst
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I wasn't looking for anyone, I certainly did think, you know,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: there's another one out there for me, for sure.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: And boy, oh boy, did she find that silver fox.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: An older guy, big solid build, and yes, silver hair.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: And he had money.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Lots of it.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: To find someone like this to love and who loves you,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: what could possibly go wrong?
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: The first, I guess, red flag was... My brother, who
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: was like, why is he moving in there? Like, why
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: doesn't he buy a house? Why is this multimillionaire moving
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: his couch into your townhouse? Like, what is happening? What's
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: going on? And I was like, shut up. We are
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: in love. I'm singing for daddy, I love him, Taylor Swift,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: you know, around the kitchen. And my daughter even was
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: with me. She was like, they're just haters, mum. Don't
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: worry about it. A year in, the, you know, shit
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: started to rise to the top. not the cream.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I'm Georgia Love and this is Everyone Has an Ex.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Come with me as we dive into a collection of
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: unconventional stories about relationships past through the eyes and the
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: hearts of the very people who lived them. Jess was
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: 46 when this story begins. She had plenty of her
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: own before this, of course. We just simply don't have
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: time for the more than a single podcast episode. But
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: the story that directly preceded the one we're here to
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: tell today was of the dreaded M & D, marriage
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: and divorce.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: I'd come out of a pretty hectic divorce. Post-COVID, everything,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: you know, we kind of, everyone lost their shit a bit,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I guess, including us. And I had two girls and
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: came out of that thinking, I'm a bit broken. I
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: was like, what am I going to do? I've got
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: these two beautiful girls. And my one rule with coming
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: out of that marriage was we'd worked so hard on
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: those kids and creating such a beautiful life for them.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: There was no way I was going to fuck them
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: up with a terrible divorce. So both my ex and
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: I have worked hard at staying friends and being kind
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: to each other, even though it was carnage. So that
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: was my big thing is that I didn't want to
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: put ego in front of their future happiness. I was like,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: do you know what? We've got these guys, you know,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: life is too short to spend it in the rear
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: view mirror. So I just was like, you know what?
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I'm going to keep working, head down, bum up, take
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: these kids on their journey with me. And, you know,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: as a result, they were happy and we were happy
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: and everything was okay. I was definitely not looking for
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: a partner or anything. I was just quite happily cruising
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: on my own, having fun. I've got, you know, the
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: best set of girlfriends and having so much fun with
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: them and having fun with my girls and my family.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I wasn't looking for anyone as such.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: But not looking and not looking as such can mean
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: two very different things if you dig beneath the surface.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Unlike anyone, you know, like I come across as a
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: pretty strong and independent, you know, I've got a really
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: good tough mask, but I still wanted my prints. You know,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: we all want our prints and that's okay too, to
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: want that. And I guess at the time I didn't
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: want my girls also to think, that that's not an
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: opportunity to have love. Love comes in many forms and
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: it comes once, twice, three times. No twin flames here.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so whilst I wasn't looking for anyone, I
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: certainly did think, you know, there's another one out there
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: for me, for sure. I was like looking for my
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: silver fox.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: What she didn't expect was to find him in a
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: wine bar while having a cheeky couple with a girlfriend.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: We were about eight margaritas down each and... this tall,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: he was a big man, he's a big man, you know,
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: salt and pepper hair, very beautiful blue eyes. And he
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: walked past me and I'm, you know, pretty obnoxious. And
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I said, hey, did I fuck you in 88? He
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: sort of stopped in his tracks and said, no, I
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: would have been 14. And I go, oh yeah, shit,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: I would have been 13. Yeah, no worries. Anyway, bye. Bye.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: And didn't even think much of it. And then he
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: came up to me later in the afternoon and said,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: what's your name? And I was like, you know, Jess.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: And he said, Jess, I've lived all over the world
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: and I've never really come across anyone like you. I
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: was immediately kind of hooked. And then he was telling
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: me he was divorced and I was divorced and we
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: was talking, well, not divorced, but, you know, separated. And
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: we were talking about What that was like, what that
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: experience is actually like. He was like, yeah, I totally understand. Like,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: you seem like an amazing person. I was like, yeah,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Thanks.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so then my friend and I left. So the
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: next thing you know, I start Googling him. And then
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: in the morning he texted me saying, been on LinkedIn,
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: have you? And I was so horrified because I was like, oh,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: oh my God. I didn't know that you could stalk
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: people and that was sort of okay. So I was like,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, hand on face. And then that Friday he
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: was like, my horoscope says we should be having a
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: wine in the sun this afternoon. And I was like, well,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: my shrink says I should be picking my kids up
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: from football. So I've got like an hour. Anyway, before
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: I was going to this date, I was on the
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: phone with my friend going, I'm not going. I'm not going.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: What am I doing? No, no, absolutely not. I don't
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: have it in me. I was scared. I wasn't frightened
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: of falling in love. I was just like, surely it
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: can't be this easy. Anyway, I go to the date.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: And we're sitting there and he's so like charming and worldly.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: We had cheese and we had this beautiful wine and
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: he was telling me all about where he'd lived in Singapore,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: in Italy, everywhere. He'd sold his business for like $ 20
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: million and he was still looking to go back and
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: be that golden boy again. And he was struggling finding
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: that thing that he did it with last time. You know,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: what gave him that power last time? And then he
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: got up from the table. And like he walked past
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: me to go to the bathroom and he walked past
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: me and he just leaned down, put his hand on
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: my shoulder and like gave me a peck on the
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: cheek as he walked past. I'm like, oh, oh my God.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: He also had two daughters and they were at the
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: time 16 and 17. He was divorced. Well, separated actually,
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: hadn't divorced yet. Gave her 15 grand a month in
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: child support because he was so successful. He had businesses
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: in Singapore. He had a plastics business. He had a
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: data business in Melbourne. He had 21 properties. He had
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: owned a winery in Italy. At the time that I
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: met him, though, he was also working. He was on
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: a really good wage. He was working as a consultant
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: in quite a big business. I was like, oh, you're
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: just divine. I mean, the fairy tale, I've got to say,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I wanted it. Felt hook, line and sinker.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: From that very first date, probably from the first meeting,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: they went headfirst into that can't eat, can't sleep, teenage
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: level obsessed with each other. Yep, Simon fell too. As in, literally.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: He broke his ankle. And that's what supercharged our relationship.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Because I was like, Florence Nightingale, met his mum. I
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: was taking sushi to him. That's how I met his daughter.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Because I immediately went into the care role to look
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: after him. And he didn't live far from me either.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: So that's what made it easy. It was just sort
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: of down the road, you know, in the car very quickly.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: So I could go back and forth. We would go
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: back to where we met, to this little wine bar
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: once or twice a week, hold hands, grin like twits.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: We were so in love. I remember like listening to
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: songs and We would call each other in the middle
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: of the night and he did have a very nice voice.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: He had like what we would call a radio voice.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: And so we'd be like lying in bed in the
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: middle of the night and we'd be talking, you know,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: under the doona covers. It was like we were teenagers.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: And he was worldly and he knew a lot and
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: he listened and he saw me. He had empathy for
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: my situation with my ex-partner at the time. He was kind.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: He was a good dad as far as I could
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: see at the time. He was lovely to my friends.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: He would then say to my friends when we'd go out,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: she's changed my life. She's making me a better man.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: I love her so much. She is just amazing. I've
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: never met anyone like her. She's not living up to
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: her potential. I wish she believed in herself as much
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: as I believe in her. He was like wrapping a
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: big cloak of security around me. I was just... this is,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: I'm finally happy, this is it. I'd been officially separated
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: from my ex for about a year and a half,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: but we had been living separately because we had a farm.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: So I lived in the city, he lived at our
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: farm for about three years prior to that. So I
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: hadn't had anyone... in my day to day for ages
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: and I hadn't felt loved for ages or seen or like,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know, there's that saying where they say that,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: you know, marriage is a witness to your life and
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I didn't have that. So I really did miss that
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: as much as I love my kids and my friends
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: and my family. You know, I really miss that feeling
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: of having someone on my, on my team. I wasn't
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: out there hunting for a husband or anything or hunting
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: for my prince. That's why it was so lovely when
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: he did come along because it was so natural. It
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: felt so natural. It felt unforced. And I'm a lover.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: So I was happy to love someone and have the
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: opportunity to love someone again. And I think he was too.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: I think we surprised ourselves at how we responded to
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: each other's affection and that feeling of falling in love again.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: The lust was immediate, all that stuff. But to really
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: have felt like this is someone I can be with, that,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: oh God, this guy is so dependable. I can really
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: trust him. In the first year, I took him to
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Thailand with my girls. I'd finally got my settlement money
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: from my ex. And so I was like, woohoo, take
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: the girls to Thailand. It's been a really shit four years, right?
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: especially with COVID. And he was like, should I come?
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah. So he came to Thailand and
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: we just had, he got along with my girls. And
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: like in this first year that we were together, he
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: would pick my girls up from school. He would drop
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: them off. He was part of our family. My girls
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: liked him. They came to depend on him. He was
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: a fixture because we weren't living together, but he was
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: certainly around all the time. And yeah, he would say,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: You don't have to do this alone. Let me get
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Grace from school, right? So he'd go and pick her up.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: And so they developed a really nice bond, Grace and Simon.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: He was the first man that Grace really actually got
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: to respect, I think, after the nasty divorce. So before
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: we moved in together, he gave receipts of why we
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: should trust him. There was no reason why not to.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Moving in together was the obvious next step. And just
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: when they both felt that step was coming, the universe
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: delivered it on a platter with perfect timing.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: So we decided after a year together that we'd move
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: in together. We'd find a place. And he was like, yeah,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: let's find a place to live together. I've got all
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: this money. We're going to find somewhere beautiful. I was
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: so excited because I thought, here is a man. I
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: know he cooks and he cleans and he likes to
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: go to nice restaurants and he loves my kids. And
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: he wants to find a really nice house for us
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: to live in together. So he had 21 properties and
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: they were all rented out and they were investment properties.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: So they were all like one bedroom, two bedroom places.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: They weren't going to fit his two girls, my two
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: girls and me. And so, you know, he took, obviously
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: he had income from those. So our idea would be
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: not to move into one of these properties, but to
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: actually make our own home together, which is exactly what
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I wanted. Right. So anyway, so we find this big, beautiful,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: sprawling Edwardian home in a really gorgeous suburb that we
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: both loved. However, it was very expensive. So I was like,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: are you sure? And he said, babe, you do the
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: bills and the food. I do the rent. I was like, ah,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: still a lot of money. And he was like, no,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: it's fine. I've got this. So I was like, oh
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: my God, okay. So we move all the girls in.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: It's him, me. We're in this big, beautiful home. My
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: two dogs had a big sprawling driveway and it was
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: a beautiful home to raise a blended family in. And
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: his daughters and I would sit up and talk all
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: night and my daughters and it really was a beautiful family.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: And we loved it. It was so much fun. We
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: had rocking times there. Like it was unreal. And he
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: would cook and he'd cook his duck risotto and I'd
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: be there and I'd be singing Taylor Swift and we
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: were singing Bruce Brinkstein and we were in love and
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: we were drinking red wine. We were just having the
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: best time ever. And, yeah, we had mutual friends that
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: we'd made together. We had it all. It was beautiful.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: So they lived happily ever after, the end?
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: So even though we were– I was so happy, there
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: were a few detractors. The first– I guess red flag
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: from my friends and family was my brother, who was like,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: he's got 21 properties. This is a year later, by
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: the way. So a year in, this was when we
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: were moving in together into my place. He said, why
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: is he moving in there? Like, why doesn't he buy
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: a house? Like, what's going on? My daughter even was
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: with me. She was like, they're just haters, Mum. Don't
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: worry about it. And then he got into cahoots with
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: my best friend, Portia, who– was like, dude, this guy
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: does not own a winery in Italy. And I was like,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: he does. I've seen it. And then with all the
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: constant noise I kept getting from them, why are you
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: paying for lunches? Why are you doing this? Why are
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: you paying this? Why is this man, why did you
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: pay for Thailand? Why did you pay for Tasmania at
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Sapphire Lodge? I know. So why are you paying for
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: all this? Where's his money?
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, back it up. Jess was paying for
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: all these things. Not to say that a man should
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: be doing so or to steal her brother and best
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: friend's limelight, but yeah, I'm also going to ask why.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to pay for things because for me, being
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: a fierce independent woman is part of that. We're being
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: sold that at the moment too. I wasn't hiding the
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: fact that I was paying for things when we'd gone
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: to Thailand and he'd said, oh, I'll pay my part
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: of the accommodation or whatever. And I was like, yeah, okay, great.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: And When we were in Thailand, he booked this $ 2, 000
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: a day boat for the four of us to go
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: on and zoom around Thailand. I was like, oh, that's crazy.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: That's not. He said, no, babe, I've got this. And
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: then as we were leaving Thailand, the day before, he
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: got a phone call. He had to go early. And
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: his secretary, EA, had put him on the wrong flight.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: So that leaves me in Thailand. paying the bill for
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: the hotel, which, do you know what? I was fine
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: with because I was taking my daughters anyway. It wasn't
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: that I wanted him to pay for that. I wanted,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: I was paying for myself. He was like, sorry, babe,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: EA fucked up. But yeah, no, I'll sort you out.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: He never did. We did go out for lunch one
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: day with friends of ours and the bill came to
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: like a lot of money between four of us. We'd
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: spent all day there. And when the bill came, And
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Porky Pig had ordered, you know, extra lobster rolls. And
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: the bill came and he just looked at me and
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I'm paying, sure. It was like
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: $ 1, 600 or something per couple. But everything else was amazing.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: So what do you do? One tiny little red flag?
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: But is that tiny? And was it just one?
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: I was sitting on the sofa one day and I
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: get a text, hey, I've got a way for you
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: to make $ 10, 000 in like two weeks. And I was like, yeah?
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: And he comes home and he says, right, so the
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: company I'm working for, they need a quick investment. And
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I was like, cool, no worries. When will I get
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: it back? He said, in two weeks, like you'll get
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: 10 grand. I was like, yeah, okay. Cause I'd heard him,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: I'd seen him on phone calls. I had heard him
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: doing his wills and deals. Like I had no reason
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: to actually doubt him. So I was like, yeah, no worries.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: So I transferred it directly into his account, two sets
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: of 40 and one set of 20. over three days.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: And two weeks later, what's going on? It never came.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: So I was like, Hey babe, just for my own head,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: when am I getting my money back? And he was like, soon, babe, soon.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: And this went on for two months. But in that
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: two months, we're in the beautiful house. Everything's amazing. And
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: so one afternoon I'm playing Bruce Springsteen, full pelt, summer's out.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: It's like spring. I had a glass of wine in
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: my hand and I was like, my God, life is
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: just so good. I had the niggling 100K in the
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: back of my head. But at the same time, I
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: thought I'm with this guy forever. It doesn't matter. I'm
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: getting the 100K back. Like, don't even think about it.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Look where we are. Like, he's paying the rent. Everything's good.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: And he walks in the door this day and the
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: dogs ran at him. And I remember thinking, this is lovely.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: But his face was kind of ashen. I was like,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: what's going on? And he said, your money's gone. He said,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: your money, the company's gone under. It's a fucking disaster.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: But don't worry, I'm going to try and get it back.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Don't you worry. This is where it got really hectic.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: So he had used a, he was very angry with
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: the person. in this company that he that had fucked
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: up this business therefore my money and he had gone
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: to a debt collector to get the money back from
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: said person let's call him Max So he had gone
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: to debt collectors to retrieve my 100K from Max. So
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: basically the way it works is he went to them.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: He said, I need to get 100K back from this bloke.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: They said, no worries, we'll take 30%. That's what they do.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: He then rang Max and said, Max, I'm using this
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: debt recovery company. I suggest you give me some money.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: He goes, I don't have the 100 grand, Simon, but
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I do have A vintage car worth 55 and paintings
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: to the value of another 30. So Simon was like,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: we'll take it. However, silly Simon went back to the
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: debt collectors and said, I don't need you guys anymore.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: He's actually going to give me some money. And they said, well,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: did you use our name? And he said, no, no, no, no.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: He's just changed his mind. Oh, no. So next thing
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: you know, They ring Max and they're like, did he
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: use our name to threaten to get the money? And
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, he did. So he gets a phone
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: call from these guys saying, be here in half an
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: hour with this much money. So the debt collector's basically
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: the way it works. If you're going to use their
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: name to intimidate someone, you will have to pay for that.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: So he had to sell his car that day. And
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: the next day comes home with this car, this vintage car,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: And the paintings. I'm like, what the fuck am I
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: going to do with a car and paintings? And I
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: hadn't told anyone I'd lent him that $ 100, 000. Meanwhile, I'm
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: also lending him $ 5, 000 here, $ 200, 000 there, $ 300, 000 there, $ 6, 000 there,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: to the tune of about $ 80, 000. The thing is, when
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: someone's got a lot of money like that, and it was,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: you know, he'd sold a business for $ 20 million. And,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: you know, there were receipts of that. So when... Someone
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: has a lot of money like that. And I didn't,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I didn't really, I just believed that you can't get
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: your money at a whims notice. There's tax implication. There's
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: bringing money in from Singapore. There's, you know, they're all
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: tied up in properties. Like I get it. I get
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: that you can't just wrangle 10K for a car today.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: He'd say, oh, babe, I'm waiting on money to be
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: released from Singapore. I'm waiting on this. I'd see him
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: on Zoom calls with like five guys in Singapore. I
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: saw so much proof of it being real. Every time
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: I would question, he would show me the property. He
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: would show me the spreadsheets. He would show me the
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: emails from his accountant. There was always money moving. And
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: he had this friend, Sophie, who was his accountant, who
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: would help him all the time with his money. He'd say,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: just heading to Sophie's to get some money released to
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: do this or to do that, to release the car,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: release the money, release the tax, release the fucking dogs.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Every time he'd go to Sophie, there
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: would be money the next day. I could feel that
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: there was something maybe not quite right, but then he
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: would distract me with something. He would distract me with
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: a beautiful dinner or he would distract me with a
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: gift or something. He'd do something really nice for the kids.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: And that feeling would go away just as quickly as
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: it arrived. And I felt loved. So why would I
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: want to focus on the negatives? I have always believed
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: in the best of people I'm not naive, but I
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: was like, it's not going to happen to me.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: And that's what everyone thinks from the outside. We hear
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: stories of people falling victim to scams, truly believing the
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: man they met on the internet is the real deal,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: willingly and trustingly handing over a stomach-churning amount of money
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: to con men. And we all say, it wouldn't happen
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: to me. I'm smarter. I would see it. But there
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: is a reason we hear so many of these stories,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: because when you're the one in it, You don't, often,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: until you're in way too deep.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: At this stage, I was just giving him money. Me
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: transferring something quickly for me, it was almost like I
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: was succeeding. It was a weird form of success, man.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Like I was, like he'd say, babe, I'm stuck at
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: the petrol station. I need 300. I go, yeah, done.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: He was paying the rent and he would take me
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: out for nice dinners. He would cook dinner for the kids,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: every night we'd sit on the couch and he would
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: like rub my feet. And anyone who is rubbing my feet,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I was like, mm-hmm. So there was moments of that
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: where I couldn't believe how lucky I was. So, you know,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: fuck it. I didn't really care. I think I thought,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: you know what, even if none of this is true,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I don't give a shit. I'm sad that you had
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: to lie about it because of ego or whatever. rules
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: we have in society about being perfect, and I don't
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: care because you love me, I love you, and if
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: you have nothing, I've got us both.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: But over time, things changed, and that feeling began to
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: fade away.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Aside from the money being something that came between us,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: just his general attitude came between us too. He'd been
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: saying some pretty horrible things to me. He'd say things like,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: you're impossible, you've let yourself go, gee, menopause is really
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: cracking you up. I hate the word gaslighting. I call
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: it gaspiping. But that's when he started gaspiping me. So
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: if I'd like go out and get drunk as we
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: all did, I'd always be the one that he would
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: put down the next day or say, you were this,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: you were that. The way he said it and then
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: would deny it. I'd say, but you know, why aren't
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: you just being nicer to me? Why are you being
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: so mean to me? And he'd say, I am not
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: being mean to you. You are impossible to talk to.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: This is what happens. Jess, you turn this around. and
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: you get aggressive. When someone tells you that, you become
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: so non-aggressive, you become such a victim. And I was like,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm not aggressive. Oh my God. The way
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: he gas piped me was hectic. It was this constant little,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: you've put on weight, or why don't you go to
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: the gym? But then at the same time, I went
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: on a Zen pic or something. And he said, don't
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: you dare go on that. That changes your personality. But
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: no one knew I was keeping that shit really close
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: to my chest.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Jess knew the relationship had become entirely toxic and her
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: situation was far worse than she would have ever comprehended
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: getting herself in. The good things no longer outweighed the bad.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: She knew this, but she felt completely and utterly stuck.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: I fucking hated him. What I can do is start
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: to protect myself and just focus on my girls. I
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: was like, you know what? I've been in a loveless
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: marriage before. I can do it again. My daughter's in
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: year 12. I am not about to blow that up.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: I wasn't about to start fighting with him either. I
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: couldn't be fucked. I thought you just got to get
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: through this again. Like you are now in like some
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: crazy trauma bond again. But he was part of our family.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: My girls liked him. They came to depend on him.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: My daughter went on a gap year overseas and she
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: loved him, right? He was the first man that she
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: really did ever love. As I was about to put
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: her on the plane, she said, Mum, Simon's boring. So
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: that's when I was like, that was my permission to
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: be cut and to cut and run or be cut
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: and run on, which was actually the case. But that
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: was when I was like, oh, God, I can so
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: break up with this guy. Fuck this guy. Like my
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: kids don't like him anymore. No worries. I am out
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: of here and I will leave that $ 100, 000 in the
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: dust and I don't care.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: But she didn't do that. She didn't know how. She
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: felt she just had to accept this was her life
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: now and that she'd chosen it. She was resigned to
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: never getting out. But, dear listeners, that's never a fate
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: written in stone. There's almost always that one straw that
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: eventually breaks the camel's back.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: He was hopeless with technology, and I'm a real tech person,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: and he came into my office and was like, can
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: you help me with this? And I was like, yeah, sure.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: And up on his laptop comes, love you, babe. text
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: and I actually laughed I went who's that and I
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: was like no no and I was like no no
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: who is that like I'm laughing going are you serious
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: at this stage you are now getting fucking text messages
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: from someone saying love you babe and it was so
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: oh my god I go give me your phone he's
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: like no no he was like it's just this girl
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I know from New Zealand I was running on adrenaline
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: and cortisol and Dreaded word trauma, survival. I had a
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: new job, full time, two kids. It was just so
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: full on, my life at the time, that I was like,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: it was just more information that I can't deal with
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: right now. But I still didn't really think we were
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: going to break up. Just another, I'm too busy to
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: be worrying about your philandering ass. Then he went to
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: New Zealand over Christmas for like four weeks. I did
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: a full deep dive down into his Instagram contacts and
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: stuff at that stage. And there wasn't anyone in New
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Zealand that I was particularly worried about. And I remember thinking,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: and he called me every day in New Zealand. He
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: was with his mum. So I was like, well, maybe
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: it was just this chick on the bus. Anyway. it
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: wasn't but I told myself the story so then he
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: got back from New Zealand my brother rings me and
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: he says hey I just want you to know Simon's
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: been saying some crazy things lately because he eventually started
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: being friends with him he wore everyone down over two
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: and a half years right and Simon would go to
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: lunch with him and another friend of mine's husband and
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: he'd be saying you know Jess is terrible with money.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: He'd be like, Jess is spending all her money on
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: her kids' school fees. Like, this is shit. She's running
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: out of money. And my family were like, well, yeah,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: that's her choice. And he was like, no, you've got
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: to convince her not to spend her money on school fees.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: And my brother was like, I just think you should
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: know that I think he's preparing to cut and run
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: because you're running out of money. I was like, oh,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: shut up. He is not. And one day I'm sitting
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: in my office and he walks in and he'd been
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: in the Gold Coast. And he looked ashen. I was like, hi,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: what do you want? I'm working. He said, I'm just
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: not happy, babe. I just, it's just not working out.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: I'm just not happy. It was out of the blue
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: that he had just walked in and he'd made the decision.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: So when he walked in and said, ah, you know, babe, it's,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: this is really the hardest thing I've ever had to do,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: but I'm just not happy. And I, no word of
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: a lie, didn't skip a beat. And I looked at
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: him and said, give me back my money. And he said, what?
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: And I said, fine, get the fuck out, but give
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: me back my money.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: And he did get out, that is. He scoffed and
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: made out like she was being crazy and unreasonable. He
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: said that he was going away to do business overseas,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: of course. And just like that, he left.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: And I said, here we go. This is going to
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: be fun. This is going to be really fun. I
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: tell the kids that My daughter in England's like, it's okay, mum,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: you'll be fine. My younger daughter, Lily, was like, I
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: fucking hated him anyway, mum. Anyway, so I'm like, okay,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: everyone's going to be fine. His daughters were okay. They
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: loved me. I loved them. It was fine. But the
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: getting out of this eight bedroom, massive Edwardian home was
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: now falling onto me with my new full-time job and
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: him going to Singapore to do God knows what.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: She was free of him. but not of the deep
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: financial burden he'd put and left her in. Jess had
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: no idea just how far she was from ever seeing
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: that $ 100, 000 investment again, let alone all the other thousands
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: she'd given him along the way. But that wasn't all.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: After about a year, I started noticing the rent notices
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: coming in through the app, Managed App, saying, you're late
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: on your rent. And I'd be like, hmm. I'd go, babe,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: we're late on our rent. Are you covering the rent?
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Because I'm covering everything else, and believe me, feeding... Six
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: people in a family is expensive, plus all the bills
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: in an eight-bedroom home, heating. It was a lot of money.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: So I'd say to him, babe, why aren't you paying
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: the rent? He'd say, I am. The ledger's wrong. Oh,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: the real estate just got it wrong. Then he'd say,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: I'll pay it. And it was always late. And that
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: was really stressful because I was like, I'll just pay it. No,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: I can pay it. He never did. The rent was
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: in arrears of $ 40, 000.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: It was only then Jess was hit with clarity of
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: a sudden, terrifying realisation she hadn't just been in a
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: toxic relationship, she'd been conned and he wasn't finished with
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: her yet.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: So after he's broken up, he's gone to Singapore, I
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: started packing up the house and my friend Portia, who
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: had questioned him the year before, he never liked her again.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: And she's pretty much my best mate and who I
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: hang out with the most. So... This night, he's come
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: back from Singapore. Her and I have had two bottles
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: of red. She has helped me literally pack up my
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: entire house. She was amazing, right? So we're sitting there.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: We're a bottle in. And she had purchased from Timu
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: one of those zappy taser things, like from Instagram. Not
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: a real taser. Like it gives you electric shock. You
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: see them, right? So her, myself, my daughter, we're all
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: zapping each other that night, laughing. Laughing our heads off going, ugh. Anyway.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: So Simon comes in, big chest out. You know, at
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: this stage, he's trying to put on his big brave
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: face or whatever. He comes in and he says, is
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: there any wine? And I was like, no. He still
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: got wine and pours it out of my glass into
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: his own. And Portia's like, what are you doing? And
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: he's like, well, there's no wine. And she says, don't
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: do that. And at this stage, I'm broken. I have
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: pretty much nothing. And I'm really under his control at
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: this stage because he'd really done a good number in
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: the last month of working me over and the fear
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I wasn't getting money back and the whole thing. And
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: he picks up the taser zappy thing from the table
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: and says to Portia, what's this? And she said, this
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: is my taser. I got it off Temo. He zaps
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: it and he goes, oh, that's ridiculous. She goes, do
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: you want to go? And he says, no, I do not.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: So he sort of hands it to her, and as
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: he turns around, she zaps him on the back. And
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: it's not a taser. A taser would put you on
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: the ground, right? He spins around, and it is like
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: he was shot. His reaction to that was so beyond psychotic.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: You have never seen anything like it. So he's slamming doors,
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: calling her a cunt, threatening to have her killed by
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: his mafia friends. And he's screaming at me saying, why
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: are you laughing? I'm like, I'm not laughing. And I'm
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: yelling at Portia going, mate, why are you doing that?
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: And also I'm so pushed down by him that I
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: couldn't even defend her. And so he leaves. The next
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: thing you know, I'm getting these barrage of texts saying
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: that cunt just started a war. You wonder why I
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: left when you fucking defend her. She has no idea
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: who she's messing with and nobody assaults someone like that
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: and gets away with it. She's fucked. She's no idea
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: what's coming to her. And I'm like, writing these messages saying, please,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: you're scaring me. Like you're scaring me and the kids
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: in my head. There you go again, defending a fucking idiot.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I'm not defending what she did. I'm
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: saying you're scaring me. Can you stop? Please stop and think.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: I'm there already. Italians or police? What does she want first?
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: I'm getting these right. And Portia is in my spare
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: room asleep. Like I'm scared because he's doing a lot
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: of threatening stuff. So I go into Portia. She's like
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: lying in our spare room, nude, pissed as a fart.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: I'm like, dude, get up. You've got to go. She's like,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: what for? I said, because he is threatening your life.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: She's like, oh, like, fuck he will. I am not
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: getting out of bed. Do not wake me up again.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, my God. Look at the messages. She's like, oh, whatever.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: He's not going to do anything. Next day, Portia gets
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: a phone call. He's put an AVO on her and
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: he's charging her with assault drugs. She spends the next
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: six months and thousands of dollars on a lawyer to
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: basically not be charged with assault. I was going away
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: with her overseas to the States at the end of
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: the year. He said from one of the texts, she
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: won't be going because of a conviction. You motherfucker. I
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: think the worst part too was the fact that he
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: was telling people that I was making it all up.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: He was telling everyone that he'd paid for all of
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: our life and it was so bad. So, you know,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: the word was getting around and it came back to
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: me through the grapevine, through someone, a friend of someone
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: who knew that he had been in contact with a
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: particular woman in New Zealand and potentially I should get
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: in contact with her. So I did. I get her name.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: She's a very high up person in a very big company.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: And I call the company name to try and find her.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: And it goes to her voicemail. I leave a message.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: She calls me back. And I'm like, can you tell
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: me a bit what you know about Simon? And she's like, oh, God.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: So it turns out he'd taken about $ 80, 000 from her
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: in 2021 just before me. So when he was living
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: in this fancy apartment, she was paying for it. Then
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I went to the police and said, listen, I've got
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: two of us who have this story and there's no
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: doubt more. And I said, I genuinely think this guy
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: just needs to be stopped because he is obtaining finance
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: by deception. He's promising that he'll pay you back and
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: he never does and he's promising stuff. So I was
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: pretty much told by police The police that don't lend
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: someone money. And that it's really up to women not
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: to be that silly. It moved on in my head
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: and I was definitely angry underneath. But like, I'm not
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: wasting any more time on you. And then I get
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: this phone call from his ex-wife. Their girl's mum. We'd
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: been quite friendly since the breakup. Because she'd also been
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: treated so poorly by him. And I get the phone call.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Did you know... that Simon and Sophie had been seeing
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: each other for two years. Sophie, the accountant, he would
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: go to Sophie's house a lot and Sophie had a
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: mum and together they would help Simon a lot with
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: his money and his finances. And it was nearly every
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: night at one stage. He'd showed me photos of Sophie
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: before and she was like this little dumpy brown curly
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: haired woman and he said, you don't ever have to
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: be threatened by her, mate, because she's like my accountant. Yeah,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: so we'd been split for about six months and I
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: get the phone call from his ex-wife and she said,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: they're still seeing each other. I think you should probably
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: speak with her. So I get her number and I
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: call her and she answers. She's another powerful, intelligent woman.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: And she answers and she's all shaking and I'm like, Hi,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: it's Jess here. We probably should have a talk about Simon.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: She's like, oh my God. And it was vomit worthy,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: her reaction. We met at the pub that afternoon. She
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: turned up, shaking, looking nothing like. the picture he'd showed
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: me of her. She was gorgeous. And I was like, oh,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: you don't look anything like the Sophie he showed me.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: And yeah, she had lost a ridiculous amount of money
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: to him. So basically robbing Peter to pay Paul. He's
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: paid for the apartment from the New Zealand woman. Then
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: he's moved on between Sophie and myself and he's paying
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: for my life with Sophie's money and then even back
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: to his life with her, with my money. I sat
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: there and started working out dates and times. I went
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: on a work trip to Noosa and I said to him, hey,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: will you look after the kids while I'm gone? He's like,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: of course, the day before. I can't, babe. I'm working.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: I've got to go to the Gold Coast. No worries.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: He was in Noosa with Sophie that week at a
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: wedding and I'm there for work. I mean, I felt
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: a lot more for her because it was so fresh
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: for her. Had this happened to me when I'd just
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: broken up with him, I would have been like Devo.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: But because I was six months out, he couldn't hurt
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: me anymore and I'd got my life together and my
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: shit together. That's the worst bit. At least I'd heard
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: about her. And I said to Sophie, well, I think
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: you need to speak to Jess. And Sophie said, who's Jess?
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: So the way he explained me away to her was,
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: He was living in a friend's, you know, granny flat
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: out the back. Like it must have been a carnage
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: way to live. I have no idea how he did it.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: And she's such a, she's a cool chick. And her
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: mum was really good too. And he really fucked them
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: both over. Same way with me, just loans, loans here,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: loans there, pay her back a bit, loans here, loans there,
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: pay her back. When I met her, he was living
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: in her mum's apartment.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Jess had already thought she'd heard it all. But this?
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: What more could this man do? How many more secrets
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: and how many more women? How much more swindling had
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: this guy done? She tried again to go to police,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: saying there were now three women that she knew of.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: But she got the same response.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: I said to them, so can I do anything here?
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Do I get a scam watch? What do I do?
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: And she said to me, I said, because this man
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: is going to keep going. And she said, well, yeah,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: we can't really. without actual proof or something. Because I said,
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I've got, I had a full 35 page, thanks to Chachamiti,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: dossier on him, written up beautifully with everything, all of
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: our text messages, all the transactions. I wasn't walking and going,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: oh my God, I gave this guy money, he didn't
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: pay me back. It was really serious brief that I had.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: And they said, no, we're not passing it to fraud.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Basically bad luck. And I said, but he's going to
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: keep going. And she said, well, We can't really stop
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: women lending someone money. It's kind of on you guys.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: I thought at that time I could potentially go civilly
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: with him or I could do mediation. We did try that.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: That didn't work. So I had to go to court
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: because he'd left the rent. And so there was $ 40, 000
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: owing on it. And I basically had to pay that,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: but I was refusing to pay the last 10, which
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: was my bond. So I was like, no, like, come on,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: enough is enough. And standing in court and the judge
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: basically says, I'm sorry, because it's in both of your names,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: you will have to pay if he's not around. And
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: in the end, the mediation person said, this is a
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: bit of a lost cause. He's not coming back to
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: us now. They didn't even care. That was the terrible
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: bit too. Like no one would listen. No one cared.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: And you know what? It is all on us, right? Like, yep, sure.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Don't lend someone money to But when you're living with
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: someone for three years, it's very different. I didn't just
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: meet this guy, throw him a hundred grand after a week.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: This is a three-year intense, beautiful relationship with our families involved.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: This is the hardest question for me to answer and
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: to come to terms with because whilst I'm sure I
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: was a mark from the start, I do believe that
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: he may have accidentally fallen in love with me or
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: fallen for me because in going through all of our
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: videos and stuff that I've looked at, you know, that's
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: three years of relationship and the way he looked after
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: my kids and treated my kids. I don't know how
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: you can fake all of that. Maybe you can, but
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: I doubt it. Even though like I, sit here and
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: I think about him now and, you know, my blood
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: boils and I'm like, I hope you're unhappy wherever you are,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: but not for one minute do I regret what we
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: did have for those few years. We had so much
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: fucking fun. We had the parties and we had the
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: house and the kids were happy and there was so
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: much beauty in that and so much safety and security, weirdly.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I felt amazing. And strong and like I'd finally crossed
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: to the other side of happy. I have no shame
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: around this. I've had a great life. I will keep
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: going and having a great life. This is just part
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: of my story. But what I don't like is until
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: you've been there, you've got no idea. That's the crux
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: of it. That's the truth. I still say there was
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: love there. It's not all just con. I mean, I'm
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: sure that I'm a mark and all that stuff and
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: everyone can sit around and say, oh, my God, this
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: chick is crazy. Red flags, red flags. Like, shut up.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Until you've been in it, even con men are still
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: feeling what they're feeling. He is a monster. There's no
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: other way to describe him. Doesn't really talk to his
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: kids either. They won't talk to him. He's just a
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: sad monster. He is apparently living in the Gold Coast,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: and that is all I know. Part of me wants
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: to get a private investigator and find him. Part of
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: me is scared of him. Part of me wants to
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: warn women. Part of me wants to move on. But
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: also part of me just laughs at the entire thing too,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: because I'm just like, you know, this is a bizarre experience.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Also then potentially get people to help me find him
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: and take him down because clearly the police won't do
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: anything about it. And the woman in New Zealand had
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: a whole criminal case against him and she dropped it too.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: She couldn't. It was too hard. Like there is no
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: support out there. And you get a whole lot of
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: judgment too, like, no way, man, I wouldn't have fought
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: for that. And you might not. Well, don't you? Stay
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: in your cave then. There's this part of me that
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: just desperate to, I would love to see more of
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: a community for women around this because when you go
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: on Sis, Is This Your Man or when you listen
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: to this podcast here and when I talk to other people,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: there are so many people who have been through this
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: and there's nowhere to go. You can't get these guys.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: And the only way to really beat a narcissist is
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: to embarrass them. Sometimes I get a little bit scared,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: but then I'm like, actually, no, that's what he's done
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: to you. That's what he's done. That's what they do
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: to women. They're bloody good at what they do. So
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: I think For women out there who are looking at
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: the flags early on and you know in your gut,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: you feel it's not quite right and you even look
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: at some of your friends' faces, I promise you it
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: is so much easier to leave now than it is later.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: And don't be afraid of financial fallout now because it's
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: just going to get worse and they're never going to
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: pay you back ever, ever, ever. So here I am now.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: I've got a great new job. I'm really happy. I'm
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: really financially secure now. Thanks to myself, not even from
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: my settlement with my marriage. Like I'm actually, I'm building
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: my life up myself. And that's what all this has
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: taught me, man. Life is like, it's like the matrix.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: You know, you can, I can spend my whole life
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: looking in my rear view mirror at all this stuff
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: that happened, but I was part of it. I was
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: complicit in all of it. And so I clearly liked drama.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: And now I'm not looking for drama. I'm just looking
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: to be a lot calmer, which is a lot more boring,
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: mind you. Like less dinner party stories. I take that
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: there was an element of performance in on both of
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: our sides that performative love so that when you know
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: something is going wrong you fake it till you make
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: it and I'll never ever do that again bring on
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: the love like It's what makes us all get up
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: in the morning, right? And if it's not with a partner,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: it's with yourself. So at the moment, I'm getting up
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: every morning for myself. My girls are incredible. I've raised
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: two really strong, epic, powerful young women. We're a little
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: bit jaded, but my friends are incredible. My family is beautiful.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: And that's all that I need at the moment. My
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: future is looking bright and it's all built by me.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: No one else. That's what I love the most.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Everyone Has an Ex is a Minty Media production and
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: proudly part of the Mamma Mia Network. This episode was
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: written and narrated by me, Georgia Love, and produced by
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: Linda Scott. If you have a story you'd like to share,
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: email everyonehasanx at mintymedia.com.au. You can support us by following
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  Speaker 1: the show in your favourite podcast app and leaving a
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: five-star rating and review. We'll see you for the next one.