Latest / Motherhood Uncut / Redefining Success Without Giving Up Your Ambition: A live coaching call with Alexis

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Redefining Success Without Giving Up Your Ambition: A live coaching call with Alexis · Motherhood Uncut

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Motherhood Uncut podcast, where we talk honestly about the reality of motherhood.
0:05
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Kate Kripke.
0:07
SPEAKER_02: This is a space for mothers to feel seen, heard, and understood, especially those navigating the intersection of raising young kids while also maintaining passions, purpose, and work outside of motherhood.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: And it's called Uncut because we do not hold back here.
0:24
SPEAKER_02: Through expert conversations, personal stories, practical tools, and honest reflection, we explore what it means to care for ourselves, stay connected to our kids, and remember that we can feel hard things and still be okay.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad you're here.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: Today, I have another live coaching call to share with you.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: In this conversation, Alexis comes in wondering whether it's finally time to leave her demanding executive role in big tech.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: On the surface, it's a conversation about career decisions.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: But as we dig deeper, something much more important begins to emerge.
1:12
SPEAKER_02: Together, we explore the difference between achievement and connection, why so many high-achieving women feel pulled in opposite directions, and how the very strengths that create professional success can quietly interfere with the relationships that matter most.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: Our relationship with ourselves, with our children, with our partners, and with all the other people in our lives who we love.
1:35
SPEAKER_02: If you've ever found yourself thinking, I can do it all, or maybe even I have to do it all, but also realizing I don't actually want to live this way anymore.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: This conversation is for you.
1:47
SPEAKER_02: This episode is an honest look at perfectionism, identity, guilt, success, and what it really means to be fully present with the people you love.
1:57
SPEAKER_02: More than anything, it's an invitation to redefine success, not by what you accomplish, but by how your life actually feels.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: And before we jump in, a heartfelt thank you to Alexis for generously giving us permission to share this coaching conversation.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: I know her willingness to be vulnerable will help so many other mothers feel less alone.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: All right, let's dive in.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: The women I work with are often deeply thoughtful, capable, ambitious mothers who care tremendously about their children and also about the work passions and purpose they hold outside of motherhood.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: But somewhere along the way, anxiety, guilt, overwhelm, and pressure begin pulling them out of the present moment and away from the experience they long to be having.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: The Calm Connection Accelerator is my 12-week experience designed to help mothers move from survival mode into greater calm, confidence, steadiness, and connection, both with themselves and with their children.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: If that resonates with you, I'd love to invite you to book a call with me.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: We'll talk through what's feeling hardest right now, what you most want for yourself and your family, and whether the Calm Connection Accelerator feels like the right next step for you.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: You can find more information and the link to book a call in the show notes.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: So in light of that, Alexis, why don't we just begin by you telling me a little bit about you?
3:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, where do you live?
3:53
SPEAKER_02: How old are your kids?
3:54
SPEAKER_02: Do you do any work outside of being a mom?
3:57
SPEAKER_02: Kind of catch me up on your personal situation right now.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I am a resident in uh Boulder County, it right here in Colorado.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: I am a mother of a one child.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: He's seven, almost seven and a half.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: He's in second grade.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I am an executive at a tech company.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: So not only do I work, I have a really big job that is quite demanding, requires travel, lots of hours, very global in nature.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's uh it's a big part of life on a daily basis.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: Do you enjoy your job, Alexis?
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Um in reality, sometimes yes, sometimes no.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I don't enjoy it.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: And most of the time I don't enjoy it.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: It's when um I feel a pull to, you know, and I'm I'm split and I'm sometimes forced to make the choice to work when in reality I need to show be showing up for my family.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: Like my time needs to be elsewhere, my energy, my attention, my heart needs to be elsewhere.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: But I have this big commitment at work that I, you know, um that I have to deliver on.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: So, but sometimes, yes, sometimes they get in a grow, a groove.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm 20 years into the domain I work in.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: So I'm in HR, I work in compensation, and I love the domain.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: I love the domain a lot.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that that's kind of the the balance.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: Like I get to have real impact on the employees in the company that I work in, the industry, like the tech industry overall.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, I lead a great team.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: So I get to like have real impact a lot of time and I do enjoy that.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, but my my split is um just those times when like, oh, I have, or actually, you know, when it really happens is when a work comes home with me.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: I work from home actually.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: So I'm always work's always at home with me, but I don't, it's hard to stop, like cut it off when I pick up my kid.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: I can't, people are pinging me.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: I have meetings at night, I'm missing family dinner.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: It's like all the things, like that's when I'm just like, oh, it's not worth it.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: So this is really interesting, just to dive in already with an observation.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: So the question was, do you enjoy your job?
6:04
SPEAKER_02: And what I'm hearing you say is, yes, I enjoy my job.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: I enjoy my work.
6:09
SPEAKER_02: What I don't enjoy is the feeling I experience when I am trying to navigate the work and the family.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: So it sounds like the answer is yes, I enjoy my job.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: There are some understandable, uncomfortable feelings and situations that happen when you feel pulled.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna get to that in a moment, perhaps.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: But it sounds like you actually enjoy your work itself.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: I do most days for the most part.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: For the most part.
6:39
SPEAKER_02: I have yet to meet someone who's doing something profoundly purposeful and driven where there are parts of the work that they don't enjoy, obviously.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and I think you answered my next question is do you work full-time?
6:51
SPEAKER_02: It works, it sounds like yes, you work full time.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: In fact, sometimes you're working more than full time.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I I think I easily put in 60 to 70 hours a week on a regular week without travel.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: So I'm um I'm a pretty busy woman.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: And question is 60 to 70 hours a week a requirement for the position?
7:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, not stated, no, but the bar is so high and there's just always so much to happen, uh so much to do that, like that's just what it takes to get it done.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: Like the reality is I spend all day long during typical working hours in meetings.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: And then I have to get real work done outside of those meetings, which I'm I'm normally six to eight hours a day in meetings, sometimes nine hours a day.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, there's always the there's always the actual real work you have to get done.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: And so that I have to take home with me, I have to do in the evening, I have to do at the weekends, etc.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: So it's not a stated requirement, but the reality is is that's what it takes to be successful in my in my company at my in my role.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: And it sounds like, again, it just so I'm saying back what I think you're saying, it's not that in the job description is 60 to 70 hours a week of work, but you're saying in this industry, in the culture of this industry, in order to meet a certain standard of quote unquote success, the word you're using is you I have to put in 60 to 70 hours of week work.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
8:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: And it's mainly because so I work, I work in big tech, I work for a fang company.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, I've worked for fang companies for the past 15 years of my life.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: So it's not new, they're all the same.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, but the company I'm currently at is very relationship-based.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: And so the reality is where I feel like in former companies, I was able to manage my time more during typical work hours and say no to a meeting or, you know, delegate more to my team.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: This company is not that way.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: If I'm not there managing those relationships, then like things start to falter.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: And so there's this, um, and that is actually part of the job that's explicit.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: Like it's a relationship-based organization.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Things get done through people, not through process or an email or anything.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: So like it's it's very relationship-based.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of uh what comes with it from a culture perspective for this company specifically.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: Helpful.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: So I know you had a question about what you wanted your actual question to be, but tell me what it is that's happening in maybe we've already stated it, or maybe you'll we'll come up with something else.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: But like, what is one specific thing that you could really use some support on today that would make this call feel productive or successful for you?
9:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I would say, Kate, in all honesty, I'm um for the past six months, I am really getting serious about leaving my full-time job.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, taking some time off.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: But then you what comes next, I don't know, trying to build something on my own with my expertise.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: And it's um, you know, I'm 20 years in my career.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: I've always had a W-2 job.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: I've always been a W-2 worker.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: I've never done it on my own.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: It's scary because it's different.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's also scary because I don't know if I actually get more control of my time if I'm working for myself versus like working for a company.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: So I don't actually know what the other side of it looks like.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: But that's probably the core thing is like uh getting conviction to either stay and stay the course in my corporate job or decide to leave because like ultimately, um, there I honestly don't think that what I'm doing now is really truly sustainable and like something's gotta give sooner.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: Something has to give somewhere along the way.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so like stay might be like, well, just find a different company that isn't so relationship-based that I might be able to manage like with a typical 40-hour, 50-hour work week instead of the 60, 70 hours I'm putting it in.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that's probably my main thing is like, should I stay or should I go?
10:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm writing a song in my head.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm not obviously, I'm not sure we're gonna have, you're gonna walk away with like a clear-cut answer, but I do believe we can get you to a place where you feel a little more clear of how to make that decision.
11:12
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
11:13
SPEAKER_02: Love that.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: So I find something very interesting here, just as a quick reflection, is that you're saying your job is relationship-based, but what you're describing to me is achievement-based mindset.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's an important thing for us to distinguish here.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: Someone who says, I have to be working 60 to 70 hours a week to be successful, is using an achievement brain.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: And I want to I talk about this a lot in my work.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: You've probably heard me say this.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: So I just want to help you and our listeners understand the difference, right?
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Achievement mindset, achievement brain is the brain we're in when we're fixing, planning, problem solving, managing, controlling, right?
12:02
SPEAKER_02: It's like I've got a goal, I have something I have to do.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: What has to happen for me to do that and to be successful?
12:08
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of us who are success-driven or type A or high achieving live in that brain most of the time.
12:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:17
SPEAKER_02: So for our listeners who can't see, you are pointing to yourself.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: So it sounds like this resonates.
12:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
12:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: So a couple of other reflections is you you're you you are using the word have to a lot.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: And I think this is also something that's very achievement brain focused.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: We feel like we have no agency, right?
12:37
SPEAKER_02: If there's this goal I have, which is in your what we're talking about right now, to be successful in this role, I have to put in 60 to 70 hours a week.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: And just as a reminder to you, Alexis, I mean, first of all, I just kind of stated the obvious here, which is if I'm working, whoever we are, 60 to 70 hours a week, and also attempting to be a present parent and to get enough sleep and to do that.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: That is actually, I don't know, you tell me.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: What is that?
13:13
SPEAKER_01: Is it possible?
13:15
SPEAKER_01: It's really not possible.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, not for any long-term period of time.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, something has to give along the way.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: Something has to shift, right?
13:24
SPEAKER_02: We need to look at this a little bit differently because to your point, you could keep going, but you or me or anyone else would end in burnout.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: And burnout is literally like our body shuts down in burnout.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: We're no longer functioning.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: So we know that.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: So we can look at that as just the fact of this, right?
13:42
SPEAKER_02: You're telling yourself you have to do a certain amount of things in order to be successful at this job, but you're also aware that there are other things in your life that are important to you that you want to dedicate time to.
13:52
SPEAKER_02: So this situation, this setup, is not possible for you.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: How's that feel when you hear me say that back to you?
14:02
SPEAKER_02: I know you know that on some level, but how's it feel?
14:04
SPEAKER_01: It it actually feels like um, it feels like a mirror that I'm just holding a mirror to say, like, that's, you know, what I feel inside is like something that can be observed from the outside in as well.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: Of course, you can't do, I mean, I've always been the person who can do it all.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: Ah There's never been a thing that I couldn't accomplish, right?
14:26
SPEAKER_01: There's never been a thing that I uh couldn't get done.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: So I think like that's um that's probably like the the part that's hard is like I can I know in my logical brain that this is not sustainable.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: And I've hit burnout, I hit burnout really hard last year, actually, to the point where I had to take a month, I took a really long vacation because I just could I couldn't anymore.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: Um and so I know that in my logical brain, but my heart in my emotional brain is like, no, of course you can get it done.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: You can do anything.
15:02
SPEAKER_02: I I actually believe you that you can do anything.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: I actually really do believe that.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: But the statement do anything is very achievement-based, right?
15:12
SPEAKER_02: So what you're not talking about here, which I think it sounds like we're gonna be spending our time on, is what does it look like to be strengthening or accessing this connection brain?
15:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: Because I've always been able to do it all, is just in the words there is a very achievement, right?
15:33
SPEAKER_02: So doing it all might be possible, but there's a uh loss in that, which is connection to yourself, to your child.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: Are you partnered or married?
15:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't have a husband.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: To your husband, probably even to these people at work you're supposed to be in relationship with.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: Okay, see what's happening here?
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna ask you a question, which it may seem irrelevant, but of course it's not, especially if you've been watching, listening to my work for a while.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: What have you been told about yourself?
16:11
SPEAKER_02: Like, what are the beliefs that you carry into 2026 with you about yourself, who you should be?
16:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh who I should be or who I am.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: Either or you answer the question you want.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: I think that um I I've always carried a brand of being rather tenacious.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: And so, like, that is part of whether I try to be or not.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's how I kind of how I show up.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: Um what is your definition of tenacious?
16:38
SPEAKER_01: Just curious, uh you know, overcome any obstacle that again, it's very achievement-based.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: I can like hear myself saying it.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: You you overcome any obstacle until you get to that output that you you know is necessary, whether it's like I'm convincing, you know, the CTO to say yes to something, no matter what it is, like I go until, right?
16:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna just give up.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't see like a some kind of obstacle as something as like, oh, it I it's insurmountable.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: It's just like, nope, that's just another step that I have to take to overcome.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that the tenacity that I have is something that it really comes out in my, and I think it comes out a lot from a work perspective.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think like who I should be is um and who I want to be is a patient parent.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Great.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: So here's two beliefs that I hear that you may hold in there somewhere.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: I I will I really want you to tell me if this resonates or not, because it might not.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: Giving up or giving in is never okay.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: It's never okay to slow down and let go.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: Both of those resonate very strongly.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: Great.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, the the model that I do my work on is that the results of our life, what our life looks and feels like in this moment is very connected to whatever deeper beliefs we hold.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: So if anybody holds the belief, giving up and giving in is not okay.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: It's never okay to slow down and let go.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: They're likely to have a life that feels exhausting and they're busy all the time, and there's a ton on their plate, and they actually feel pretty disconnected from the relationships that matter most.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: So we want to just notice that.
18:29
SPEAKER_02: Curious what comes up as I make that connection with you right now.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh, very, very strongly, not actually the life that I want.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: Pretty much not the life that I actually want.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: So can just describe to me, and again, I'll see.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: I'll see how you answer this question.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: I may ask the question a little bit differently, but let's start with this question.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: Describe to me the life that you do want.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, the life that I want is um I think the one of the core things is being present and um kind of like dependent dependable for my family.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: Um being a good caretaker of my family and being able to take care of myself as well.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: Um knowing that that I am also a priority in life and not only my family and my work.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: The life that I want to have is relaxed in nature, um, like healthy living and you know, playful, I think is like you come a very serious person.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: And I think like what I miss out on is the the playfulness of it all.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so like I I want, I really do want that, but I'm so serious all the time because you know, I'm always like, I think I'm picking up on it.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: My achievement brain is like, nope, gotta get that thing done.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: No time to relax or be silly.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, but like the playfulness of life, I feel, you know, I just want like the simple little joys to permeate through on a daily basis and like enjoy the little things, right?
20:15
SPEAKER_02: I do.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: So what would you need to believe was true in order to access those things?
20:24
SPEAKER_02: Don't know what you're gonna come up with.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: Doesn't need to be perfect, but what comes up for you?
20:30
SPEAKER_02: Um remember, we're we're we started with giving up, giving in is not okay.
20:35
SPEAKER_02: It's never okay to slow down and let go.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: So, what would you need to believe was true in order to access that life that you're saying you most want?
20:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that the hardest part for me to get to that life is um thinking that if I'm not as professionally successful as I have been in the path that I've been on, and I don't continue on the journey because I haven't quite made that end state career goal, I'm close, but I haven't quite made it there.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: And if I don't keep on that track, then actually like I kind of failed.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: So I think in order for me to have the life that I want, I would have to take a different look at what success looks like and what's actually most important for me.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, I so redefining what my professional success is and should be, I think is probably one of the core areas that I would need to focus on.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, because ultimately I think what is necessary for me to accomplish a life I really want is time.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: I need more time to do the things that I think are really important in my home life, my personal life, my family life.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: Um and it's in pure I'm just it's pure conflict with like the job that I have.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: So or the career track I've been on or you know, I'm still on at this moment in time.
21:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: So I hear you saying that I would need to believe that there were.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: There was not just one way to feel professionally successful.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: I would need to believe that there were many different ways to feel professionally successful.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: This is a really important part of my work, Alexis, because I don't want women like you and me and others listening to believe that in order to be present with their kids and to dedicate time to their family, they have to let go of professional success.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: I actually believe we can have both.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: But we have to be thinking about this differently.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:34
SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: So I guess I'm just curious at this point in our call, is there, do you have room in there to open up to the possibility that there are multiple ways to feel professionally successful?
22:50
SPEAKER_01: I I do.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: And I think I think that's actually the the good thing with where I'm at right now is I have been doing this introspection to say, you know, actually in college, I wanted to be an entrepreneur.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: And I kind of like do feel that there is this opportunity, this right moment.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: I've developed all of this really deep expertise and a really great brand in the industry where I think that I, you know, I might be able to, while I'll never be the CHRO of a company, which is what I've been working towards, you know, maybe my new goal is a successful, um, you know, a successful consulting shop that I run and I work on passion, like I work on for clients that I love for, you know, things that are really important that I see the value in, um, and do that in an appropriate amount of time that really allows me to like do both my professional and my personal life.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: And so it's, I think it's what I think is, you know, as I come and say my one question is like, do I stay or do I go?
23:45
SPEAKER_01: It's not like go and leave leave professional work completely, because that's just not, it's not in me to like not contribute financially, to not like be challenged from a, you know, a mental capacity perspective.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: Like I like intellectual stimulation and you know, I really enjoy again, I love the domain that I work in.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's not a question of like, oh, I can just go hands up and say, you know, let me just be a full-time mom.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: Like that's not really, it would really break the my sense of self.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: Um I think if I were to ever try that.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: So that's really where I think my belief is, my belief could shift to to redefine what success actually looks like in a professional world that allows me to truly know that I'm successful and also enable me, afford me the opportunity to also be successful as a parent and as a partner.
24:35
SPEAKER_02: I want us to change the question a little bit from what does professional success look like to what does professional success feel like?
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh goodness, that's a good question.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: I think it feels like I'm gonna go with like the like the end state of it, right?
24:57
SPEAKER_01: Like a feeling that I made it, like I accomplished it, like standing on top of that mountain, right?
25:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm at the bottom of the 14er and I made it to the top.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: And like the feeling of not needing to ascend higher.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: So it sounds like it feels like accomplishment, it feels like on some level completion.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: It feels like perspective.
25:24
SPEAKER_02: So here's why I want to switch this professional success.
25:28
SPEAKER_02: Again, if we're looking at our so fee, so mem back up and say feelings are relational.
25:36
SPEAKER_02: Many of us who are overachievers, high performers, somewhere in our life we're taught that it's not safe or okay or fill in the blank to actually feel.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: It's part of the reasons we're so busy, because if I'm busy, I don't have to feel.
25:53
SPEAKER_02: Right?
25:53
SPEAKER_02: I can I can get in my brain and take action and do.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: And again, it doesn't mean there was some big T trauma in our life.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: It just means maybe it wasn't modeled to us, right?
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, just as a side note, we might get to this in a moment, but if you really want to be present with your child, you know, it's gotta become okay to slow down and let go.
26:15
SPEAKER_02: And it's gotta be okay to feel because being relational does not always feel good.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: No.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: So again, we can say we want stronger relationships, but if we're always in our achievement brain, we're kind of getting in the way of that, right?
26:34
SPEAKER_02: That does make sense.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: So because it's like a relationship for a purpose rather than the connection of the relationship.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
26:44
SPEAKER_02: Relationships are built in the moment.
26:48
SPEAKER_02: They're not built when I do those four things, I'll have a good relationship.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: They're not built in when everyone's doing their job, it means I'm good at my relationally based management position, right?
26:58
SPEAKER_02: Relationships are built in the moment.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: The moment does not always feel good.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: So, so the question again, if if we're saying what does it look like to be professionally successful, that's where we go into.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: It looks like working 60 to 70 hours a week.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: It looks like getting everything done before I go to sleep at night.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: It looks like we're doing, we're back in the doing.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
27:19
SPEAKER_02: So I want us to stick back in the feeling.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: We'll get to your son in a moment, but let's stick back in the feeling.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, if I'm if I'm actually really accessing the experience, not the behaviors, but the experience of being professionally successful, I'm feeling a sense of accomplishment.
27:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm feeling I access perspective.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: I'm feeling like I've got perspective.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm feeling um a sense of completion.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: And that's a different uh lighthouse.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: That's a different thing to motivate us if we're motivated by feeling instead of doing, isn't it?
27:57
SPEAKER_01: It is, definitely.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: I think it's very much so because all those things are also like not defined and like hard facts.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, well, in order to feel this way, X, Y, Z has to be true or has to have happened.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Um I think you can even get like a sense of completion along the way.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be like end state, oh, I'm I'm at the very end, I'm ready to retire, I'm finally completed, or like that last promotion you get, or whatever it is.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't have to be that.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: The completion is like the, you know, you can feel that along the way as well as you do great things um and deliver great work that you feel proud of because you actually, for I'm gonna use your words, like took the time to prioritize what you're, you know, slow down and will do the things that actually will drive that impact and that feeling.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, amazing.
28:48
SPEAKER_02: That's the other thing, right?
28:49
SPEAKER_02: Feel the real feelings exist in the moment.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: We can assume we might feel something, right?
28:55
SPEAKER_02: Or we can have memories of feeling, but like the true experience of feeling happens right here in the moment.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: So we can have that feeling of completion even on the way to something, right?
29:05
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
29:05
SPEAKER_02: So one of the things that I think defines in my work and certainly in my life, a high achiever in the way that you know, it is we all love to achieve things, but is that our sense of self is based in the end result, right?
29:23
SPEAKER_02: I feel good about myself if I've gotten that raise, if I have turned in that thing, if I've completed 70 hours of work, right?
29:32
SPEAKER_02: It's based on something, some outside goal.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: It's so funny because like the domain I work in, I've done a ton of research on this.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: Like we put so I mean because I work in compensation, like everybody wants that performance rating, they want that promotion, they want that big project, they all work to a sense of accomplishment um so they can get the reward because so much of our identity and who we are comes from what we do, right?
29:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, and professionally, this is, you know, I think like as humans have continued to evolve, our our work is not like, you know, when we were hunter-gatherers, it was like, ooh, I killed the buffalo, I feel really good.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm feeding the tribe.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: But like now it's not that way at all.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: It's like my manager gave me praise, or I got positive feedback over here.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: And then on the opposite side of that, when you get the negative feedback, or you are absent the praise or absent all the things, it can it can hurt and actually like be self-detrimental to like let those feelings um impact you.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: Cause then there's a ton of research on this.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, because I know it.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: I know all this research because it's like you know all these achievements, you know, all this research in your achievement brain.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: I do because I like great programs to like help people tap into it so they do more for the company so I can reward them more.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: That's like what I do for companies, you know?
30:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: But but what you know in your brain and what your nervous system believes and trusts are two different things, right?
30:54
SPEAKER_02: Because you said to me a few moments ago, you know, um, well, you agreed on some level it resonated that giving up and giving in is not okay.
31:05
SPEAKER_02: And it's never okay to slow down and let go, right?
31:08
SPEAKER_02: So intellectually you can say, well, I know what the research says, and I buy it in my brain, but my nervous system still feels like it's dangerous to slow down.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: So that's really interesting for us to pay attention to.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: And again, obviously, I mean, I you're you're singing to the choir right now.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: This is really the motivation of so much of the work that I've done for my own life and in the work I do with women like you.
31:34
SPEAKER_02: And it's really important that we notice the patterns here.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: So the other thing I just want to mention because it's sort of again, it can feel counterintuitive or counterproductive, but tell well, first let me ask a question.
31:55
SPEAKER_02: Why is it important to you to access to be able to be more present with your son?
32:01
SPEAKER_02: Tell me why that matters to you.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: Um well, it matters to me because I I want him to know that I'm always there and that when I'm there, I'm actually there.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: And I don't want him to grow up.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, in a world of devices and screens and distractions all around, like I want him to know that when him and I are together, he's the priority.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: And that's it.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: And the rest of the world can fall to the wayside.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm with you.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: Like it's us, here we are.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: Because we don't always, you don't get a ton of time as soon as the kids are in school and the extracurricular is like it's very limited the time that we have.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: And if I'm thinking about work in my head rather than like having a conversation about Minecraft with my kid, which I don't care about Minecraft, but he does.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: Like it's not, and you can tell, like you show up, and then I feel it makes me feel really guilty after the fact if I wasn't present.
32:57
SPEAKER_01: And so I go into like a self, like a probably like do a little bit of self-negative talk coming out of that.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, you let this one thing distract you and you were thinking about that when you shouldn't have been.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: So it's not only for him, but also for me, I think like being present, it it has like an impact on both, both him and myself, if I'm not present.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: Because I I mean I acutely feel that when it happens.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
33:20
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
33:21
SPEAKER_02: So um I was gonna ask you the question you you said I want him to know that when we're that I'm there, that I'm actually here when I'm here.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: And then the question was gonna be, well, what gets in the way of that?
33:35
SPEAKER_02: And I think you just answered it by saying feeling distracted about work.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
33:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm like solving that big work problem.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm like drafting that email that I need to send after he goes to bed, you know, like I'm you're re-recapping a meeting that just happened before I picked him up or whatever it is.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, or my phone pings and I actually have a real true distraction from work coming in, and then I pick up my phone, right?
33:55
SPEAKER_01: So that's it's those things.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: It is work is like um it permeates through life.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
34:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: So what gets in the way is achievement brain.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: What's what's being called for in that moment is connection brain.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: Your your willingness to connect, and what's getting in the way is your focus on achieving, achieving, right?
34:20
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and that's what permeates.
34:23
SPEAKER_02: It's it's that tendency of which many of us have.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: Guilt is so interesting, right?
34:30
SPEAKER_02: So guilt, I talk a lot about this too, but guilt is when we feel guilty, we really are having an experience of having broken some kind of a rule.
34:41
SPEAKER_02: I've done something wrong.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: So when you feel guilty in that moment, what's the rule that you've broken?
34:48
SPEAKER_01: Um the it's probably the rule of uh, I don't, I don't know if I call it a rule, but maybe it is like I made the rule for myself, like being a good mother.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: Like I feel like I'm not being a good mother in those moments.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: So that's that's the rule, which you know, we can we could probably discuss it's if it's an actually a rule and what good actually looks like, but that's that's what it comes that comes up for me.
35:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: So great.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: So let's do that for just a moment.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: So being a good mother means what?
35:16
SPEAKER_02: What again?
35:17
SPEAKER_02: If if if you're if you've broken the rule of being a good mother, what is being a good mother?
35:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, God, that's such a good question.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, to actually put a real definition to it.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: I think that part of it for me is um being dependable, reliable, giving love, um, and helping my child grow and evolve and experience new things.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: I think being a good mother is, you know, well, it's funny.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: I actually I have I have three jobs since he was little.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: I've we've always been having this conversation.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: Like mom's job is in threes.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: One, first and foremost, it's health and safety.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: Like I have to keep you safe and healthy.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: Number one.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: And that's a rule that like I never will break, right?
35:57
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't matter.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: That's a non-negotiable.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, the second is to teach him everything about the world and give him experiences to help him grow and evolve into, you know, a great man that he will that he will be and help nourish him, his learning, you know, dive into like things he's interested in, and then to love him unconditionally.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: So those are the three jobs that him and I talk about.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: Those are mom's jobs.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, so those are my three jobs for as a mother.
36:21
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
36:23
SPEAKER_02: I just want to pause on that because those are beautiful jobs.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: I also want to say that one of the reasons I asked about this rule thing is because we do have an opportunity when we're feeling guilty to ask ourselves, yeah, is the rule I've broken my rule or someone else's rule?
36:43
SPEAKER_02: Because if it's our rule, we want to allow ourselves to feel that guilt.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: Guilt is important.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: All emotions are important.
36:50
unknown: Yeah.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: If it's someone else's rule, we might need to change the rule.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:54
SPEAKER_02: If a good mom always tucks her child in at night, then anytime you want or need to do something else, you're going to tell yourself you're a bad mom.
37:04
SPEAKER_02: And maybe we need to be willing to change that rule because maybe it's not true that in order to be a good mom, we have to be the one to always put our chuck our kid in night.
37:12
SPEAKER_02: You get the point here.
37:13
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
37:14
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
37:16
SPEAKER_02: So um, so I'm just going to assume for the moment with you that when you have this belief that what your son needs from you is that when you're with him, because you're not with him all the time because you've got this full-time job, but when you're with him, that you're really present with him.
37:40
SPEAKER_02: And then you're distracted and you're thinking about the 12 things you still have to be at work, or you're returning an email on your phone while he's asking you a question, all these things we do, and you walk away and you feel guilty.
37:50
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to suggest that that is good.
37:54
unknown: Okay.
37:54
unknown: Okay.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: I think like as you describe like a rule I make versus a rule that's made externally.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: And like, if it's my rule, I should feel the guilt.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: And I immediately is like, yeah, those are my rules.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's that's a rule that I created for myself.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I took it as like, great, then like that guilt is not misplaced because like this is actually what I think is important.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: And if I don't deliver on what's important to me, then like I should, you know, hold the mirror, do some reflection, feel that pain of not delivering on the commitment that I want to make.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Feel that pain.
38:24
SPEAKER_02: So you just brought up something that we're going to talk about in a moment, which is that there is no being present with someone if we're not feeling willing to feel emotional discomfort.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: But we'll talk about that in just a moment.
38:35
SPEAKER_02: But somebody I want to remind you of Alexis, self-awareness, which is what we're doing right here, reflection, self-awareness, plus self-criticism leads to shame and we get frozen.
38:47
SPEAKER_02: Self-awareness and self-compassion leads to growth.
38:52
SPEAKER_02: Many of us high achievers do not know how to be self-compassionate.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: No, no, I will I will say I am not the nicest person to myself.
39:03
SPEAKER_02: I had someone, a powerhouse woman in her profession, say to me, what she asked this question the other day, why is it, because we teach self-compassion in this in the accelerator?
39:16
SPEAKER_02: She said, Why is it anytime I offer myself compassion, my heart races and I feel tense and tight in my body?
39:24
SPEAKER_02: And by the way, self-compassion is not cheerleading.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: It's not you can do this.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: And it's not justification.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: It's literally a process of just saying, the way I feel in this moment makes sense.
39:39
SPEAKER_02: Of course I feel guilty in this moment.
39:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm not doing that thing that I said was really important to me.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: Of course I feel this way.
39:48
SPEAKER_02: Not I should be doing something different or I should, right?
39:51
SPEAKER_02: And and really what we came together in is well, there's still a part of her that believes that if she offers herself compassion, she's not gonna move forward.
40:03
SPEAKER_02: Like offering compassion means she's settling.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:08
SPEAKER_02: That she's been taught that she has to be hard on herself to keep moving.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: And compassion is the opposite of that.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:16
SPEAKER_02: So that's interesting.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, even as I said, like I like I get into those moments of guilt and I take it to like being self-critical very much.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: It's like the immediate thing that like I think about.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: So it's it resonates a lot because like self-compassion is not something that I am necessarily good at.
40:32
SPEAKER_02: No, and the data, the research and data is fascinating around this.
40:36
SPEAKER_02: So what we know is that criticism from others towards us or criticism inside of ourselves is actually a process of disconnection.
40:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
40:50
SPEAKER_02: And when we're in an experience of disconnection with ourselves or someone else, our sympathetic nervous system turns on.
40:56
SPEAKER_02: Like Blade and Freeze.
40:58
SPEAKER_02: When our sympathetic nervous system turns on, our executive functioning turns off.
41:04
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that makes sense.
41:05
SPEAKER_02: So being hard on ourselves actually limits our capacity to move forward.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: That's maybe the most insightful thing that I've heard in a while in terms of like this journey that I feel like I'm on, is that it actually can limit.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
41:24
SPEAKER_02: And I'm just gonna say, look at how far you've come with no self-compassion.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: I know.
41:31
SPEAKER_02: What the data shows, the research and the data that comes with it shows is that show is that the compassion, right?
41:40
SPEAKER_02: If I say to you, of course you feel guilty about that.
41:48
SPEAKER_02: Something happens in your body, let me ask you, when you hear me say that to you, what happens in your body?
41:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say like I get a little bit tight, a little tense, I tense up a little bit.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: Which also tells me that there's some belief in there that tells you that uncomfortable emotion is bad.
42:08
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: So when we allow ourselves to feel what we're feeling without needing to fix it or problem solve, it is an active connection.
42:16
SPEAKER_02: That is what connection is.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: And when we actually feel connection, our parasympathetic nervous system turns on, which is rest and digest, and that's where we learn and grow.
42:28
SPEAKER_02: So again, self-compassion is not, it's fine for me to stay in this state of guilt.
42:36
SPEAKER_02: That's not what self-compassion is.
42:39
SPEAKER_02: It's just in this moment, the feeling I have makes perfect sense.
42:42
SPEAKER_02: And you have heard me say this, I'll say it again over and over.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: I will scream it from the rooftops.
42:46
SPEAKER_02: The feeling is never the problem.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it sounds like something I say to my kid.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: Feelings are never wrong, but how we show them can be, right?
42:54
SPEAKER_01: Like you got it.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: What did I tell my kid?
42:57
SPEAKER_01: Good luck telling him and then living it myself.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: Well, the problem with that is, and you know this intellectually, Alexis, is that our kids don't follow what we say, they follow what we do.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: It honestly, it's something that even as we've been speaking and we talk about the self-criticism, it's something that I immediately already come to is like because I'm not practicing any kind of self-compassion, my son's not seeing that.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: It's not the example that he has when things are hard or tough or mistakes are made, or you know, you didn't do what you wanted, whatever it is along the way.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, he probably sees the self-critical that I like the critical nature that I do when like I make my own mistakes or like didn't show up the way I wanted to.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I not showing him that self-compassion, like self-compassion, how valuable it is.
43:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:44
SPEAKER_02: And not only is he not seeing it, but he's not feeling it.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:48
SPEAKER_02: So our children borrow a nervous system from us.
43:52
SPEAKER_02: So he's not seeing the practice, he's not seeing what it looks and sounds like when you're offering yourself compassion, but he's also not feeling it.
43:59
SPEAKER_02: What he's Feeling from you is tension and tightness.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: And that's the messaging.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: Cause I mean, like my anxiety is high.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: Like ever since becoming a mother, I have like very high anxiety.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: And like it comes out.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: Like I feel like it seeps out of my pores on a regular way.
44:13
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
44:13
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
44:14
SPEAKER_02: And this is where the compact, like, of course.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: You are a hardworking woman.
44:20
SPEAKER_02: You push yourself to achieve amazing things.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: Actually, being successful is really important to you.
44:27
SPEAKER_02: That's not a bad thing.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: And you've been taught that the way to be successful, the doing, is more valuable than the being and the feeling.
44:40
SPEAKER_02: That's something you've been taught, directly or indirectly.
44:44
SPEAKER_02: And we just want to honor that and say, yeah, well, that makes sense.
44:47
SPEAKER_02: By the way, I've never met an overachiever who doesn't also experience anxiety, even if she doesn't want to call it anxiety.
44:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
44:55
SPEAKER_02: And why do I do the work I do?
44:58
SPEAKER_02: Because I was raised by two very anxious parents.
45:01
SPEAKER_02: And I now have two teenage daughters, 16 and 19.
45:04
SPEAKER_02: And I learned very early when they were young that I was projecting all my anxiety onto them.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: And it just was no longer okay with me.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: Am I still incredibly successful professionally?
45:16
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
45:16
SPEAKER_02: I feel so good about my professional success.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: But am I still living with I have to work 60 to 70 hours to week to be successful?
45:24
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm not.
45:27
SPEAKER_02: But the important thing to realize here, Alexis, is I mean, let me ask you a question, just to go back to somewhere we started.
45:36
SPEAKER_02: Given what we're talking about right now, is there any room for you to believe that it might there might be a time or a situation when giving up or giving in is okay?
45:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I actually think that, yes, I think I can come around to that.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, the most immediate like thing to give up is like what I have previously defined as success.
46:09
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: That's what I think is like probably the most important thing.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: The most a lot of things can fall from there.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: A lot of things could come out of that if I like start at that one big rock.
46:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, because that's like what I've been holding on to for decades.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: And so it's probably like one of the core things that drives most of my decisions and what I do and how I do it, and then ultimately leads to the way I feel.
46:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: So I think that is that's the one that like I'm sure I could come up with like a lot of other little things as well.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: But if I think about letting go, the most salient thing and most meaningful thing for me to let go of is what I previously defined as success for my professional career.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
46:53
SPEAKER_02: And the other one is is there room right now in this moment for you to open up to the possibility that there are plenty of times when it is okay to slow down and let go.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: The letting go piece, I think, really is important for me to.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: I can acknowledge that it's important.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: It's harder for me to say exactly what I can let go of outside of like specific work things.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: Um just because I've always been a very type A control controlling person.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: I was like, letting go is not really my strong suit.
47:29
SPEAKER_01: So like I'd say like that's probably what I have the most work to do on like a a day in, day out, right?
47:35
SPEAKER_01: Like in the small things and the big things, like letting go is not, it's it's honestly it's not a skill that I that I honestly have.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: I I really don't think I have that as like a skill, but can I make it a belief?
47:48
SPEAKER_01: I can commit to working on making it a belief.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: I can, I can definitely do that.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: And then like building the skill over time, um, but I see the value in it.
47:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that you differentiated.
48:02
SPEAKER_02: So letting go is a skill and it's an action, right?
48:07
SPEAKER_02: If we're going to actually let go, there's something we need to be doing.
48:12
SPEAKER_02: There's some action we need to be taking.
48:14
SPEAKER_02: So, for example, you're with your son, it's the end of the day, he's come home from school, or it's dinner time or whatever.
48:21
SPEAKER_02: And you have this uncomfortable feeling in your body of incompletion, right?
48:28
SPEAKER_02: There's something you haven't finished.
48:31
SPEAKER_02: What's required for you to be present with him, that thing that you said is important to you, you know, that he knows that I'm with him, I'm really with him, is a willingness to feel that feeling of incompletion.
48:45
SPEAKER_02: The distraction and the thinking about and checking your phone is doing the thing you need to do to no longer feel that feeling.
48:52
SPEAKER_02: So that's why we say if we're really wanting to be present, we also have to be willing to feel emotional discomfort.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
49:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
49:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:01
SPEAKER_02: So, so the the letting go is the letting go of the behavior that you've developed as a habit.
49:11
SPEAKER_02: So you don't have to feel the thing that's so uncomfortable to feel.
49:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:17
SPEAKER_02: The, the, you know, the belief, of course, is going to come from, which we've kind of identified in the beginning, is your first belief is it's never okay to slow down and let go.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: So we have to, the term is poke holes in that belief, right?
49:34
SPEAKER_02: To help you understand that that all or nothing thought actually misses the point of the moment that we're living in, is that sometimes there are moments where it is entirely appropriate and valuable to slow down and let go, especially if the goal is connection, relationship, connection.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: I actually like um, I think I think you gave me like something very tangible to just start doing today, like today is because I promise you, I will end my workday and my workday will not be ended.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: I believe I will pick up my son and I will want to spend time with him.
50:15
SPEAKER_01: And I think I can, like, as a first commitment, say, great.
50:19
SPEAKER_01: I know that there will be things that are uncompleted, incompleted, and it will be unfinished.
50:23
SPEAKER_01: And it's fine that it feels uncomfortable, but I'm not going to do the thing that would move it to completion just to avoid the uncomfortable feeling that I have inside.
50:31
SPEAKER_01: Because what's important is I deliver on the commitment that I'm making to my son and being a present parent in the limited amount of time that we have.
50:39
SPEAKER_01: And anything else can wait, isn't important, not a priority, doesn't um define isn't like a definition of success anything.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: Because I can also say, like, that one small task, that one small thing at the end of the day, that's not actually going to make or break my success in one, in one moment.
50:56
SPEAKER_01: Like I can miss one ping and reply a few hours later after bedtime.
51:00
SPEAKER_01: It's not going to.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that is like one tangible thing I feel like I can honestly like work to commit to starting today.
51:08
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
51:09
SPEAKER_02: A follow-up as we wrap up here is just a practice that I have in my life all the time and I offer it up to you and our listeners is just to ask ourselves, how do I want to feel at the end of the day today?
51:20
SPEAKER_02: Or we might say, How do I want to feel at lunchtime today?
51:23
SPEAKER_02: How do I want to feel after dinner?
51:25
SPEAKER_02: Like we can set these little and the feeling is the goal, not the doing.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
51:31
SPEAKER_02: Well, by the time I go to bed, I want to feel connected with my son.
51:36
SPEAKER_02: Okay, what are one or two tiny things?
51:38
SPEAKER_02: It's not the big things that overachievers think they need to be these big things, right?
51:43
SPEAKER_02: They're the tiny things.
51:44
SPEAKER_02: What are one or two tiny things I can do that will help me get closer to that feeling?
51:49
SPEAKER_02: And for you, it's being in the moment with him when you have that small time between him coming home and going to bed or whatever, where you're actually allowing yourself to feel the discomfort of incompletion at work so that you can access that feeling of connection with him.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
52:07
SPEAKER_01: I can do that.
52:09
SPEAKER_01: I can, I can.
52:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying I will be successful on day one, but I can commit to trying that to shifting my belief from it's not okay to is it okay, it is okay.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: Um maybe even it's possible that it might be okay.
52:26
SPEAKER_02: It's possible it might be okay.
52:27
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we need a little bit possible that it might be okay to slow down and let go.
52:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
52:35
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
52:38
SPEAKER_02: So as we wrap up today, obviously we have not given you, you're not walking around with a clear decision about what to do for your work life.
52:45
SPEAKER_02: But but does this feel like this was a successful, worthwhile call for you?
52:50
SPEAKER_01: It does.
52:51
SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you, we didn't answer the question directly, but I think we have given me all the things that I need to explore.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: And I think the most um the most important things are um exploration, knowing that connection with my the people that matter in my life, because you know, we talk a lot about my kid, but the other relationships matter.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: I have other relationships that matter as well, that that has to be a priority and success has to allow for that.
53:14
SPEAKER_01: In absent the connection that I want in my relationships, I can't really actually achieve success no matter how I define it.
53:21
SPEAKER_01: So that has to be part of the success.
53:22
SPEAKER_01: So I think um I think it is really helpful and it gives me a lot to like consider and think of as I navigate what do I do next and how do I make this decision of what comes next in my life, my professional life.
53:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
53:36
SPEAKER_02: And again, it's not that achievement is bad.
53:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just that we need to know how to tap into connection.
53:52
SPEAKER_02: All right, listeners, if you found this episode helpful in any way, or if there's someone in your life who you think might benefit from hearing it, I would be so grateful if you take just a moment to subscribe, rate, review, or share this episode with a friend.
54:07
SPEAKER_02: Of course, it does feel good to know this podcast is resonating with you, but honestly, the bigger reason I ask is because the more subscriptions, ratings, and reviews the podcast receives, the more accessible it becomes to mothers who may really need this kind of support and conversation.
54:24
SPEAKER_02: And as we all know, motherhood was never meant to be done alone, but it really does take a village to raise a mom too.
54:31
SPEAKER_02: So thank you for helping us grow this community one conversation at a time.