Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 99 - Luba Greenwood - CEO Gallop Oncology

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Episode 99 - Luba Greenwood - CEO Gallop Oncology · The BioHub - by Avetix

• 0:05
  Welcome back to another episode of the Bio Hub and a Vetics
• 0:09
  podcast. Today I'm joined by Luba
• 0:12
  Greenwood, CEO of Gallup, Luba's one of the most respected voices
• 0:16
  in biotech, a free time CEO, founder of Binney St.
• 0:19
  Capital at Dana Farber, and a driving force behind Biotech
• 0:23
  Hangout. We talk about Gallup's mission,
• 0:26
  what it takes to build strong culture in tough markets, and
• 0:29
  the personal motivation behind her work after losing her mum to
• 0:32
  cancer. It's an inspiring and powerful
• 0:35
  conversation, so let's get into it.
• 0:37
  It's it's an absolute pleasure to have you on Uber.
• 0:40
  How are you? Yeah, you do.
• 0:41
  Thanks, Max. Thanks for having me.
• 0:42
  No, it's amazing, honestly, pleasure.
• 0:46
  So let's just start about a bit about you.
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  So this is your third time in a CEO seat.
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  What have you learned from those past experiences that you're now
• 0:57
  bringing into Gallup? Yeah, well, great question.
• 1:01
  So I have to say, a lot of people say that it's about the
• 1:04
  team, it's about the people, it's about the science, it's
• 1:07
  about the data, and it really, truly is about the team.
• 1:11
  So I've certainly learned about how to build teams properly,
• 1:15
  when to build, when do you scale teams?
• 1:19
  How do you communicate with your team?
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  How do you come up with a central message and do it
• 1:24
  together with everyone so that your whole company is really
• 1:28
  with you through the process because you're building it
• 1:30
  together. Of course, the focus, hyper
• 1:34
  focus on what it is that you're doing, hyper focus on your
• 1:37
  mission is also very important. You know, we and we're going to
• 1:41
  cover it later when we discuss, you know, how do you build a
• 1:44
  company in these times? But I have to say maybe probably
• 1:48
  of my cultural background and trying to be more efficient and
• 1:53
  do more with. I've always ran companies in a
• 1:57
  way thinking that there aren't that many access to resources.
• 2:02
  So we're finally in the times when it's really tough to get
• 2:05
  access to resources. And right now a lot of people
• 2:09
  are trying to figure out how to run companies efficiently.
• 2:11
  It's certainly something that I've been doing throughout my
• 2:14
  career, and it's now rewarding to actually see the fruits of
• 2:19
  Labor when everybody is in, everyone is working hard, you're
• 2:23
  working efficiently, and you're hyper focused on what it is that
• 2:26
  we need to do, which is bring drugs to market for patients and
• 2:30
  make sure that we make drugs that are not just work and
• 2:34
  efficacious, but are also safe. Yeah.
• 2:38
  You also mentioned being cash efficient.
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  Do you think it's like a little bit of a crazy concept that
• 2:44
  people are only just starting to think that way?
• 2:47
  Yeah. Which is, yeah, Which is it?
• 2:51
  It's crazy that there that's your job as ACEO.
• 2:55
  I think we did have many CEOs that were in a position of ACEO
• 3:00
  that did not run AP and L before.
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  Usually in most other industries, you are either ACEO
• 3:07
  because you have run AP and L and you earned that position.
• 3:11
  You've managed people, you've managed teams, you have managed
• 3:14
  the budget. You were given a budget and had
• 3:16
  to do things within the budget and had to deliver milestones on
• 3:21
  time and even before that. And then we also have, for
• 3:25
  example, in tech, we had people that came up with their own
• 3:29
  technologies, but they were always driven by the technology
• 3:32
  and making sure that they get it out as soon as possible to the
• 3:36
  end customer, you know, B&B to B or B to C customer.
• 3:40
  So outside of biotech, it was always kind of obvious to, to
• 3:44
  understand that you have to either earn cash or if the cash
• 3:47
  that you had, you had to manage it properly.
• 3:49
  I think in biotech it's a discovery to many that have not
• 3:54
  run AP and LME. It's, it's, I can't, I can't
• 3:56
  imagine doing it otherwise. Yeah, I can imagine.
• 4:03
  And now we're. You don't matter, you're on hold
• 4:04
  this way, right? You in in your own finances.
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  Hopefully we're all very aware of cash runways that we all have
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  and as we have families and others that we take care of, we
• 4:15
  do the same. So you have to kind of bring
• 4:18
  that same rigor because you are at the end of the day managing
• 4:22
  money that has somebody has given you to for a particular
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  purpose. So not to hire and over hire,
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  but to actually bring real drugs to market to patients and help
• 4:32
  patients. Yeah.
• 4:34
  And then, and then if we're talking about cash in today's
• 4:36
  market, it's it's obviously been pretty tough fundraising wise.
• 4:41
  How are you thinking about raising capital investment
• 4:47
  alignment, maintaining momentum in this kind of market?
• 4:52
  Yeah, it's a very hard market. And actually we talked about
• 4:55
  this. One of the reasons I like to do
• 4:56
  the biotech hangout is because we cover on weekly basis what is
• 5:00
  happening in the market, who is doing what and it enables us to
• 5:04
  actually see and stay on top of weekly what's happening in the
• 5:09
  deals and the investments. One thing that's very obvious
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  and we all know now is that there has been money deployed
• 5:16
  and investments made, but they're mostly all concentrated
• 5:19
  on a few companies. So we have seen large raises,
• 5:23
  but those large raises are for few companies.
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  So that leaves a lot of really exciting, wonderful companies
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  that are out there trying to raise money.
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  They cannot, they're having a hard time doing so.
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  And so, you know, for those companies, certainly as I
• 5:38
  mentioned earlier, that focus is very important.
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  So you know, you have to figure out what is that one or two
• 5:46
  programs that you really want to focus on and drive those
• 5:48
  forward. What is nice to have, I think
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  what's nice to have with versus what must have is, is it people
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  should understand if you're running a company, it should be
• 5:59
  very clear to you. Unfortunately, we're in a place
• 6:02
  now where there are a lot of advisors.
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  There are a lot of people that can tell you to to you if, if
• 6:08
  you're running a company as ACEO, well, it should really be
• 6:11
  done like this. It should really be done like
• 6:14
  that. You should really hire, you
• 6:16
  know, four people to do this job.
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  You should really hire this external party to do that job.
• 6:22
  I think again, there's a need in bringing in the types of CE OS
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  that I actually understand themselves, what needs to be
• 6:30
  done and how it needs to be done efficiently so that they're not
• 6:33
  wasting money. And then also having an ability
• 6:37
  and the expertise and experience historically to understand how
• 6:41
  do you make decisions and make those decisions fast.
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  If you need to, for example, refocus your pipeline.
• 6:47
  If you need to refocus your whole company, for example, if
• 6:51
  you are pre cleaned clinical and there's no money in preclinical
• 6:55
  staging in preclinical companies right now, how do you think of
• 6:59
  maybe in licensing something that's consistent with your
• 7:02
  target and the mechanism of action that you're going after
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  and take that into the clinic? Yeah.
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  So this is obviously about being more cash frugal and then
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  alternatives to fundraising is is there advice to how to get
• 7:17
  fundraising as opposed to? That absolutely.
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  So yes, of course there's advice on how to get fundraising.
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  You know, I would say there are multiple ways and I don't want
• 7:31
  to repeat what probably everybody else is saying, which
• 7:33
  is obvious there. Of course, non dilutive funding,
• 7:36
  OK, we all know that access to non dilutive funding has also
• 7:42
  been quite limited over the last two to three years.
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  It's obvious, of course to say, well, go into pharma and partner
• 7:50
  with big pharma and see how we what you can do there.
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  Again, big pharma has some access right now to so many
• 7:57
  exciting technologies, including technologies in the US and, and
• 8:01
  from China and from other countries as well.
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  So you have to compete for for the interests from from the
• 8:08
  pharma companies and then the same thing from investors.
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  So I would say the key there is instead of going breath and
• 8:16
  going after everyone is actually to really understand which of
• 8:20
  the pharma companies and again, not always go for the big 10
• 8:23
  pharma companies. They if you look into the recent
• 8:26
  activity deal activity, it's actually smaller, I'll say small
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  to medium sized pharma companies that are hyper specialized in a
• 8:33
  certain therapeutic area and then within that therapeutic
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  area are specialized within a particular indications.
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  I would actually learn more about those and target those
• 8:43
  specifically because they would be much more interested, much
• 8:46
  more willing to do deals and those deals might be smaller, a
• 8:49
  little smaller, but actually if you're looking at deal size,
• 8:53
  they're not that small. In some of the recent ones that
• 8:55
  we've seen the same thing for investors, there have been
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  actually quite a number of smaller funds.
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  When I say smaller funds, I mean funds that raise 23400 million
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  dollars back 10 years ago, we didn't call those funds small.
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  We actually call them big funds that were raised.
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  So again, I would get out there and see who has raised a new
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  fund, who within the existing funds understand who has raised
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  and who's deploying money, who's not deploying.
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  So you're not wasting your time, and you're also not wasting the
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  time of VCs. Like that, that's just be super
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  smart with your time and your effort in the right place.
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  Sorry, sorry, Max, just one more, you know, another areas
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  family offices. So in family offices it's
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  something that has there's been a quite a big shift in family
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  office money deployment and even how family offices have been
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  structured. So because of, I would say the
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  aging, it's I'm stating the obvious, the aging population,
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  it's kind of an obvious thing, but it's, it has a pretty
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  serious effect on our industry and a willingness to invest in
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  our industry and diversify. So there has been trillions of
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  dollars that are right now moved, this is worldwide that
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  are moved from kind of the older generation into family offices
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  for the next generation. And that has been quite
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  unprecedented. So it used to be, I would say
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  not as structured and people right now are really looking for
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  more of structured ways to pass on wealth and there are more and
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  more people that are looking to do so.
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  So first of all, it's become much more structured and
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  institute institutionalized. And second of all, there just
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  has been a lot more money that's available to, to do that work.
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  And then of course, within a family office, there are, as we
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  all know, there are different ways of deploying it.
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  There has, I mean, if you're a good money manager, if you're a
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  good chief in the investment officer in a family office, you
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  or if you're just managing the family office money, you know
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  that you want to diversify your position.
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  So yeah, you put in some much more obvious kind of stocks and
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  bonds and with obvious players. But also it's always good.
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  Usually they put about 10 to 20% into I would say alternative
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  investments and certainly life sciences, healthcare investment
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  is within that bucket. So all of that to say is there
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  have been tons of new family offices that are out there.
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  They're looking for either direct investment where they're
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  investing into companies or they're looking to deploy that
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  money into funds. But more and more are doing,
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  especially the smaller ones are looking to deploy money straight
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  into companies. Well, I bet that's something
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  people haven't really thought about as well.
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  Yeah. And it's something that we've
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  actually discussed, even I'm on the board of Mass Bio.
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  We have started having those discussions of how do we help
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  the ecosystem here in Boston, at least in Massachusetts, I don't
• 11:55
  want to say Boston, it's all of Massachusetts.
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  We have Western Massachusetts, great innovation as well.
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  How do we give access and promote that access for our
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  innovative companies to some of these funds?
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  So certainly there are efforts. I know bio, the main by
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  organization is doing the same. So they're multiple efforts.
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  So hopefully they'll be online soon enough.
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  Amazing. Yeah.
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  And I want to take it back to what you said earlier as well.
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  It's just been a bit about being cash efficient.
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  You talked about when you're ACEO knowing when to outsource,
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  when to hire in full time or consultants.
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  What does that mean for just the knowledge of of ACEO?
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  Like what experiences do you have to have?
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  Like what kind of person are you looking for if you're bringing
• 12:44
  on ACEO, if you expect them to be able to know when they have
• 12:49
  to make those kind of decisions? When and how?
• 12:52
  Gosh, it's a, it's a very good question.
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  And you have actually, you know, I'm on a number of boards and
• 12:58
  certainly the focus has shifted from, you know, in the early
• 13:04
  twenty 20s and 2019-2020, 2021, you know, there was, I would say
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  a hyper focus on a scientific and medical expert as ACEO and
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  even a founder CEO. So people were comfortable with
• 13:19
  founder CEO, even though if you look historically, that is not
• 13:23
  something that people usually investors have been comfortable
• 13:26
  with. So right now we're switching
• 13:28
  more I would say to traditional ways that we identify as CEO.
• 13:32
  Certainly in this environment, I think you, you have to have been
• 13:38
  ACEO unless you're in the inventor of course or founder of
• 13:41
  the technology and you know it so well.
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  And if it's a preclinical technology or if it's a, if
• 13:46
  you're in the device space, if it's a pre commercial
• 13:49
  technology, then yes, a founder is OK.
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  But really these are the times when you need somebody that has
• 13:55
  done this before and has, I would say what we call it in big
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  pharma, cross functional, cross functional experience really and
• 14:05
  working. And I hate to use corporate
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  jargon, but you know, being in a matrix organization where you
• 14:11
  actually understand what each function does, because unless
• 14:16
  you are, for example, like I see a number of, I was just speaking
• 14:20
  to somebody, I'm shocked at the number of CFO searches that are,
• 14:25
  that are ongoing. And I can tell you a lot of the
• 14:29
  times, unless you are doing an IPO or you have a multi asset
• 14:33
  company and highly sophisticated, I think as CFO to
• 14:37
  me, I scratch my head sometime. Firstly, it's it's a very
• 14:41
  expensive hire and depending on your need, you don't always need
• 14:45
  a CFO. So unless you have been in an
• 14:48
  organization and or have yourself sold the company IPO,
• 14:52
  the company have done complex deals where you actually need a
• 14:58
  CFOI think it's tough to really figure out who do you really
• 15:03
  need. Yeah, it is tough and like as a
• 15:09
  recruitment you are. Very tough, I know.
• 15:11
  I was going to say, Max says. How do you do it?
• 15:13
  Because it's a tough job. You have to guide somebody.
• 15:16
  I'm sure if somebody comes in to you and they are, you know, a
• 15:19
  10% company and 2-3 asset company that's not interested in
• 15:24
  doing an IPO. And yeah, if if the founder is
• 15:29
  the CEO and that's persons more scientifically minded, you
• 15:32
  obviously need to build around their weaknesses.
• 15:35
  And that that's that's the way I would always frame it.
• 15:37
  Like what, what are you, what, what do you need help with?
• 15:41
  And then like, let's really look at how senior you need that
• 15:46
  person to be or can you get away with a consultant or, you know,
• 15:49
  just just give them all the options to to be able to make a
• 15:52
  decision. I always bring it back to like
• 15:56
  2122. Everyone was look everyone was
• 16:00
  asking me for some kind of serial IPOCFO, someone who had
• 16:05
  been done that before. And I actually remember having
• 16:07
  this conversation with a bunch of different companies going,
• 16:10
  well, actually what, what you don't really need someone who's
• 16:14
  been through a bunch of different IPOs because they'll,
• 16:16
  they'll leave once they've IPO D and they'll go and do it again.
• 16:20
  You need a, you need a, an established public company CFO
• 16:24
  who will, yes, they can do the S1 filing and all of that, but
• 16:27
  they, they'll be there and stabilize you after.
• 16:30
  And that's that's way more important.
• 16:32
  They stay for the fun stuff. I mean, doing an IPO is fun.
• 16:35
  And they will. They'll stay for the actual
• 16:37
  actual finance CFO. Work in a publicly traded
• 16:40
  company, That's tough. I always bring it back to that
• 16:43
  example when people's say about advice in like certain times,
• 16:47
  but ultimately it comes, it comes down to what the client
• 16:49
  says. And you know, when you go in,
• 16:51
  you go and do that. But yeah, I, I think if, if
• 16:54
  you're talking C level, you look at this, the CEO, if that CEO is
• 16:59
  a founder in particular, you really need to build around what
• 17:03
  they need help with. Yes, and that.
• 17:06
  Goes although I would encourage any CEO founder to get some
• 17:10
  finance background. There are so many classes and
• 17:15
  even even evening classes, you can get certifications if you
• 17:19
  like that kind of thing. But you know, here locally in
• 17:22
  local schools, I I do think that financial skills, you have to be
• 17:28
  able to do it. You have to be able to do a
• 17:29
  model yourself. At least try it with somebody
• 17:34
  next to you, not something that you then give to somebody that's
• 17:38
  a final, but you have to be able to at least do that yourself a
• 17:41
  little bit. You know, I have to say I
• 17:44
  certainly have done it. You know, when I transitioned
• 17:47
  from law, right? I mean, I studied science and I
• 17:50
  went into law. I was a real lawyer at a big law
• 17:53
  firm. I spent many, many years at
• 17:54
  Wilmer Hale and rose up very high at that the organization.
• 17:59
  And then when I wanted to do something completely different
• 18:02
  and go into business, I asked around, they said, OK, so I have
• 18:06
  the signed skill, I have the legal skill business.
• 18:09
  So what does that mean? And I had, I received really
• 18:12
  great advice. You know, a lot of people said,
• 18:15
  well, I mean, deal work is something you do as a deal
• 18:18
  lawyer anyway, so you understand that.
• 18:21
  But some of the best advice I was given is you have to know
• 18:26
  finance. And unless you know finance, you
• 18:30
  will, yeah, you maybe you can make it to, you know, some
• 18:34
  senior level position, but you're not going to be
• 18:37
  effective, right. It's not about titles, it's
• 18:39
  about how effective you are. And kind of starting from your
• 18:42
  first question today is how are you going to be effective when
• 18:47
  you know cash is limited. And for that you need to, you
• 18:50
  need to know finance and you kind of need to roll up your
• 18:53
  sleeves and be able to do that. So I spent quite significant
• 18:58
  part of my early career in business.
• 19:01
  I'm making sure I really know finance.
• 19:04
  Yeah. Does that sometimes get lost in
• 19:06
  biotech more than any other industry?
• 19:09
  I think so. I think so because I can assure
• 19:12
  you in in tech, as I had mentioned, I mean, the first
• 19:16
  thing, right, you're, you're always thinking about your
• 19:18
  return, right? You're constantly thinking, OK,
• 19:21
  here's my product. Here is you know, the uptick in
• 19:25
  on use of my product. Here's how many people are using
• 19:28
  it. Here is the here are the
• 19:29
  revenues or potential revenues. I'm getting you.
• 19:31
  You have to you, even if you're not trained in it, you actually
• 19:34
  get trained pretty pretty quickly because that's the first
• 19:38
  thing that even Angel investors ask you is, OK, when are you
• 19:41
  going to start being cash flow positive?
• 19:44
  That's like usually second, third question that an Angel
• 19:47
  investor is going to ask you. It's not a question that an
• 19:50
  Angel or a serious A or sometimes serious B or anyone
• 19:54
  ever really asks you in biotech. Yeah, I mean, if I wish.
• 19:58
  I've ever been asked when you're going to be a cash deposit?
• 20:01
  Yeah, I bet. I mean, that's my number one
• 20:04
  stress in in the business. Just cash flow.
• 20:07
  It's all I think about money. Creative money.
• 20:09
  Coming out whenever invoice has been paid especially.
• 20:12
  As a startup. So yeah, 100% can we talk about?
• 20:17
  That on top of invoices, I'm telling you, I I, it was funny.
• 20:21
  I just hired a a wonderful person on finance and, and he
• 20:27
  said, he said, you know, you really, you really dig in into
• 20:31
  all of this stuff and, and I said, yes, I mean, how long do
• 20:34
  you do it? And he said, you know, not
• 20:36
  really. I haven't really seen it.
• 20:39
  That's crazy, Yeah. But I suppose you want to be in
• 20:42
  and around everything. Yeah.
• 20:44
  You want to know what it is? I mean, it goes even to simple
• 20:48
  things like approval matrix, right?
• 20:49
  I mean, I encourage any CEO, even if you've run many, many
• 20:53
  businesses, you know, have it very low so that you approve
• 20:56
  almost every pencil that is purchased and then you then you
• 21:00
  know how much you're burning, right?
• 21:02
  I mean, a finance person telling you what your cash burn is every
• 21:06
  month is otherwise an arbitrary number to you.
• 21:11
  You have to truly. And so when your investor asks
• 21:14
  you, OK, what's the percentage of GNA, what's the percentage of
• 21:18
  manufacturing, What's the percentage of your R&D?
• 21:21
  You know, tell me the R&D cost. I as an investor, you know, when
• 21:25
  I previously when I was an investor and as a board member,
• 21:29
  I don't need you to recite it, but I really hope you know the
• 21:32
  answer. Yeah.
• 21:34
  You know who is great at that, although he is a very
• 21:37
  controversial figure at the moment, is, is Elon Musk.
• 21:41
  Like he knows every detail of everything that's going on in
• 21:45
  Tesla. He knows every part that's going
• 21:47
  into the manufacturing. It's it's crazy the detail he
• 21:50
  goes into. But it can you know, other CEOs
• 21:53
  can surely learn from from the way he thinks does things.
• 21:58
  Absolutely. I mean, you, you have to, it's,
• 22:00
  I can't, you know, again, I can't imagine giving money as an
• 22:05
  investor to somebody that doesn't know or let alone even
• 22:09
  think about those things. Yeah, Yeah.
• 22:12
  Can we? Yeah.
• 22:14
  Let's talk a little bit about Gallup and sure at the moment.
• 22:17
  That's my favorite topic. What can I tell you?
• 22:20
  Well, why you just walk through who Gallup are for people who
• 22:23
  don't know. Yes, absolutely.
• 22:26
  So Gallup Therapeutics is it, it's a incredible company.
• 22:31
  We are clinical stage company right now.
• 22:34
  We're starting an oncology. We just finished up our phase
• 22:39
  one and receive fast track designation.
• 22:42
  So our next trial is pivotal. So we are getting ready for
• 22:45
  that. We're going after very, very
• 22:48
  hard to treat cancers, hematological and cancers, so
• 22:52
  including MLMDS and others. And you know, I can't tell you
• 22:57
  yet, we're very excited to release our data very soon.
• 23:01
  We'll be doing so at a large conference that's coming up.
• 23:04
  We'll also have a number of papers that are upcoming in the
• 23:08
  coming quarters. So very, very excited about
• 23:11
  that. And you know, what's really to
• 23:14
  me is exciting is one that, you know, people I don't think talk
• 23:19
  about as much, which is safety, right?
• 23:21
  We always think of, OK, safety is just a hurdle that you have
• 23:24
  to get through. As somebody that you know, as
• 23:28
  you mentioned at the beginning, you know, having a loved 1 going
• 23:31
  through cancer recently, I can tell you having a safe drug is
• 23:36
  so important, right? I mean, the cancer patients are
• 23:39
  extraordinarily sick. The cancer patients we take care
• 23:42
  of are very, very sick. So the fact that our drug is say
• 23:47
  extraordinarily safe is, is quite important.
• 23:51
  It's one of the reasons why we receive the fast track
• 23:53
  designation and are able to basically go into pivotal is
• 23:57
  because our drug demonstrated the safety and efficacy that it
• 24:00
  has. And of course, efficacy.
• 24:02
  I mean, we had the one, one of our patients that's that's been
• 24:09
  cured and has written a letter to our Pi talking about how, you
• 24:14
  know, she had a few months to live and now after a drug, she's
• 24:18
  playing golf. So it's, you know, those are
• 24:21
  those are the stories that we live for and that's amazing.
• 24:25
  That's kind of the reason why personally I am doing what I'm
• 24:28
  doing and you know, I hope other people in the, in the industry
• 24:33
  are also, you know, in it. I, I think when I speak to them,
• 24:36
  they're in this industry to make amazing drugs for patients.
• 24:39
  So, yeah, so that's what we're doing in Gallup.
• 24:41
  We have an incredible team that has been committed and been
• 24:45
  working on this for many, many years.
• 24:47
  So it's just, it's been an amazing long, but an incredible
• 24:51
  journey to see this drug and and this this drug comes to patients
• 24:57
  and you know, another area is of course, and that's something in
• 25:01
  biotech. We all are very excited as
• 25:03
  scientists is about the target. Our target is also it's
• 25:07
  collected 9. It's, it's now a hot upcoming
• 25:11
  target. So we're excited that we're at
• 25:12
  the forefront of discovery on that target.
• 25:16
  So it's very, very important target on oncology as well as an
• 25:21
  immunology. So more to come on target and
• 25:25
  our our discovery and development pipeline.
• 25:28
  Yeah, amazing. And you, you talked about the
• 25:30
  mission and what really motivates you.
• 25:34
  And you also touched on the personal side of why you're
• 25:37
  motivated by that. Let's just talk us through that
• 25:41
  experience and how it shaped your perspective and you know,
• 25:46
  on the work that you're doing. Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 25:49
  I mean, I can tell you it's interesting, you know, again ask
• 25:56
  this question quite a bit, you know, am I interested in
• 26:01
  preclinical company? I mean both for as a CEO or for
• 26:04
  boards, You know, what do you like better?
• 26:07
  Do you like clinical? Do you like preclinical?
• 26:10
  Do you like something that's not even in therapeutics and
• 26:13
  diagnostics or some other area? I always find it such a, such an
• 26:18
  odd question actually, because to your point, Max, a lot of
• 26:24
  this is, is really personally driven.
• 26:27
  We're not sort of AI agents designed specifically for one
• 26:33
  purpose. So for me, you know, as I
• 26:36
  mentioned, this is my third company.
• 26:38
  The first, it was incredible. We have a drug now on the market
• 26:42
  and I had this amazing. It was almost like out of a
• 26:46
  movie experience where I was in, I was in the Marriott Marquis
• 26:51
  and at the gym there, working out the gym and looking out onto
• 26:56
  the to Times Square, which is pretty nice gym.
• 27:00
  I have to say, if anybody is looking to stay in the hotel, if
• 27:04
  you want to sell, if you're a tourist and you want to have a
• 27:08
  nice view. And I saw the advertisement for,
• 27:12
  for, for a drug right there in Times Square and it, it was just
• 27:18
  a, it was just a, you know, a reminder that wow, you know, you
• 27:21
  were part of again, it was something that we took all the
• 27:24
  way from, from science, just from basic research to all the
• 27:29
  way through the clinic and to patients.
• 27:31
  It's an incredible drug that's for Women's Health and it's out
• 27:35
  there and helping patients. It's just a, an amazing feeling.
• 27:39
  And then, you know, right now, again, seeing and when I was
• 27:45
  thinking about kind of what, what really excites me and
• 27:48
  oncology is something that, you know, for me for personal
• 27:51
  reasons, has always been an important area.
• 27:54
  It's when I was a Dana Farber for, again, I built the venture
• 27:59
  fund for them. I called it Binney St. because
• 28:02
  that's where Dana Farber is located.
• 28:04
  Even though if you are in Cambridge or in Boston, you
• 28:07
  think that's in Cambridge, but Dana Farber really is on Binney
• 28:10
  St. in Longwood. And it was incredible to be, I
• 28:16
  mean, one of the reasons I, you know, decided to do that was
• 28:20
  because I just love, they love parking in parking there and
• 28:24
  then going up through when you kind of get out of the parking
• 28:28
  lot, you go through where pediatric oncology patients are
• 28:33
  being treated and just seeing the seeing the need and then
• 28:39
  also seeing also the parents of the kids that are being treated.
• 28:44
  It gave you a mission. It gave you a purpose every day
• 28:46
  to go in and really focus on, okay, I'm not just investing in
• 28:50
  building companies and oncology. Let's make sure there are
• 28:53
  vacations and they're safe. I mean, it gives you actual
• 28:57
  patients, real people that are struggling every day and that
• 29:00
  needs need your drugs. So it was very meaningful.
• 29:04
  And it's it's an area and a disease area in therapeutic area
• 29:08
  that I've been passionate about ever since then.
• 29:11
  So, so yeah, it would brought me to Gallup.
• 29:14
  Yeah, I love that. And then something else that
• 29:17
  you're obviously really passionate about and you help
• 29:20
  create the biotech hangout and what did you want to build with
• 29:26
  that community and why do you think it's it's so powerful in a
• 29:30
  market like this? Yeah.
• 29:33
  So I don't want to take that credit away.
• 29:35
  It's actually was built by Daphne Zohar.
• 29:37
  And so, you know, I think a number of us were, you know, we
• 29:42
  we were there to help out if needed.
• 29:45
  And I was there were a number of people before me that were Co
• 29:49
  hosts. I'm one of the Co hosts.
• 29:51
  And you know, for me, first of all, I think Daphne is just
• 29:55
  phenomenal person and everything she touches is she's so
• 30:00
  passionate behind a number of missions and including the
• 30:03
  biotech hangout. And you know, what she really
• 30:06
  wanted to make sure was that, you know, first of all, we
• 30:10
  create a community here in biotech and that we're all part
• 30:14
  of that community. We feel like we're part of the
• 30:15
  community and then bring in other people that are super
• 30:19
  passionate about creating the community together and from
• 30:24
  different, I would say different viewpoints.
• 30:26
  So that's another thing that is important.
• 30:28
  I think in biotech, if you only have one viewpoint, you can't
• 30:31
  really succeed. I mean, the beauty of biotech is
• 30:33
  that you have scientists and you have business people and you
• 30:37
  have regular regulatory people. You have everyone, you have
• 30:41
  lawyers, you have doctors, you have everyone that's working
• 30:44
  together for same mission. So in biotech hangout, I
• 30:47
  personally, for example, I love hearing from our Co hosts that
• 30:50
  are bankers because they are extraordinarily well informed.
• 30:55
  So I mean, of course we can always read market analysis once
• 30:59
  weekly. A lot of banks provide that for
• 31:01
  you. But it's very different than
• 31:02
  when somebody that's in in the thick of it every single day
• 31:07
  tells you, OK, this is what's important.
• 31:10
  If you have seen these deals, this is the take away.
• 31:13
  If you have the saw the, you know, XBI index go up, it means
• 31:17
  XY and Z. So I actually learned just as
• 31:20
  much from I would say the Co host as you know, I think is I
• 31:25
  provide, I like to think about my area that I like to cover are
• 31:29
  more insights from deal side. So thinking more from the
• 31:33
  company side, so that if you are a CEO and you're looking to
• 31:37
  transact, you're thinking, oh gosh, you know what's who's out
• 31:41
  there? Like the conversation we just
• 31:43
  previously had about, you know, what are the pharma companies
• 31:46
  that are currently acquiring? What areas are they're acquiring
• 31:49
  into or acquiring in what areas? I also like to cover the deal
• 31:56
  structure because a lot of the times we see just the headline
• 32:00
  and we say, hey, you know, this company was acquired for a
• 32:04
  billion dollars. Well, then I like to dig in and
• 32:06
  see, OK, is it really a billion? Is it more like 100 million
• 32:09
  upfront? And then there are earn outs and
• 32:11
  milestones later on. Because I think that's very
• 32:14
  useful. You know, it's one thing to talk
• 32:16
  about, Hey, you know, think about non diluted funding or
• 32:19
  think about complex deal structures.
• 32:22
  I I like to help other companies in that process to understand
• 32:27
  how deals are structured now, because by the way, from what
• 32:31
  I'm seeing, structuring is very different now that it was even a
• 32:35
  few years ago. Yeah, yeah.
• 32:37
  That's 100% true. And yeah, you talked about
• 32:40
  community as well. I love the biotech community.
• 32:43
  I always joke about that. Recruitment was probably one of
• 32:46
  my only ways in and I've kind of got here through that.
• 32:50
  You're part of. You're part of it.
• 32:51
  You're in. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 32:53
  There's nothing you can do now. But I love the biotech
• 32:58
  community. It's only, it's one of the only
• 33:00
  industries where you see your competitive well across the road
• 33:04
  and you celebrate as well because ultimately that's good
• 33:07
  news. Yes.
• 33:09
  And I really like that. And everyone's out to help
• 33:11
  everyone. Yeah, it's it's awesome.
• 33:14
  And I love the biotech hangout. It's now part of that as well.
• 33:18
  Well, I love that you said about competitors.
• 33:20
  So we really are. You're absolutely right that we
• 33:24
  don't view ourselves as competitors, which is actually
• 33:28
  really nice. Unfortunately, you know, so many
• 33:33
  people are sick and they're all and we, most of us have highly
• 33:37
  targeted drugs. So then even though we're in the
• 33:39
  same, could be in the same therapeutic area, we're actually
• 33:44
  all treating usually different types of subtype of diseases.
• 33:47
  And even if we're treating people in the same and targeting
• 33:50
  even the same target, you know, it's interesting sometimes I, I
• 33:56
  talk about our own target and it's very exciting and a lot
• 33:59
  more people want to get into it. And people say, oh gosh, you
• 34:02
  know what, what if these other people are going to do it?
• 34:05
  And they said, this is great. It's such an important target.
• 34:07
  It's I would love to see more and more companies going after
• 34:12
  it because it is at least from what we're seeing in both
• 34:15
  preclinical and the clinical data being supported is such an
• 34:19
  important target in oncology and immunology.
• 34:21
  So I think, I think that competition, even among the same
• 34:26
  patient population, same target is important because ultimately
• 34:30
  we're, it's what's best for patients.
• 34:32
  If somebody else has a safer drug than you, that's good for
• 34:35
  patients, you know, and, and you to think about, you know, maybe
• 34:39
  maybe you should rethink another another formulation and do
• 34:43
  better because we can, we can all do better.
• 34:46
  Everyone's here for the same reason, which is exactly so
• 34:49
  special. I want to finish out with our
• 34:53
  our usual last question, Luba. So if you could have dinner with
• 34:58
  any scientist or innovator, past or present, who would it be and
• 35:02
  why? Oh goodness, I know, I know, I
• 35:06
  knew you were going to ask me that and I and you know, IA
• 35:11
  bunch of different ones came to mind, but probably the one.
• 35:14
  Is this a dinner? Is it drinks or is it coffee?
• 35:16
  Is it a zoom meeting? Well, I've said.
• 35:18
  Dinner, but. Dinner.
• 35:20
  OK, All right, Zoom, maybe somebody else.
• 35:23
  I would say for dinner, it would be Marie Curie.
• 35:27
  And she, you know, I mean, she's I think she's the first person
• 35:33
  not a first woman, the first person to ever have two Nobel
• 35:36
  Prizes. She had her first at 35, I
• 35:39
  believe. Her second was in her 40s in
• 35:42
  chemistry and physics. I mean, who else, who else is
• 35:45
  able to do that? So, and this was a long time
• 35:47
  ago. So I, you know, I would have
• 35:49
  wanted to know how she did it. I mean, even forget about, you
• 35:53
  know, difficulties of being a woman at that at that time.
• 35:57
  But you know, how did she, how did she do it?
• 36:01
  I mean, how did she manage her life?
• 36:02
  How was she able to even have access to being able to
• 36:08
  innovate? And when she was able, what
• 36:11
  drove her, you know, forward? And it's, I think it's something
• 36:15
  that we can learn all learn from.
• 36:17
  You know, a lot of us succeed in one thing and we think, oh,
• 36:20
  that's great. That's our success.
• 36:22
  And now we have to talk about our same success over and over
• 36:25
  and over again. But I, I like how she, you know,
• 36:30
  she had won Nobel Prize and then she went straight working on
• 36:33
  another thing and got another 1-10 years later.
• 36:35
  I think we think we should all do that, that, you know, not
• 36:38
  hanging our ourselves and who we are and just one thing that we
• 36:42
  do and strive to learn more. I mean, for her to get a Nobel
• 36:47
  Prize and a completely different area of science meant that she
• 36:51
  had to be humble and say, you know what?
• 36:55
  I am an expert in chemistry. Now let me learn something in
• 36:59
  physics. I mean, who does that?
• 37:02
  A lot of people don't want to put themselves in that position.
• 37:05
  Like what? So that's what I would ask her.
• 37:07
  That would be the conversation. Like why did you do that?
• 37:10
  What if you what if they laughed you out the room and you know,
• 37:14
  and said go back to chemistry? It's that's I think that would
• 37:19
  would be a fun conversation, especially after a few glasses
• 37:22
  of wine. Yeah, 100%.
• 37:24
  Yeah. I think that's a great answer.
• 37:26
  Yeah, look. Thank you so much.
• 37:28
  But actually let me ask you what?
• 37:30
  What do most people say? What's the answer?
• 37:32
  What's your most answer? Has come one before, once before
• 37:35
  and I was trying to think who it was, but I couldn't think the
• 37:40
  the probably most common answer has been Steve Jobs as an
• 37:45
  elevator. OK, Einstein has come up a few
• 37:50
  times. Yeah.
• 37:52
  I'd have to look back, but yeah, OK.
• 37:55
  Edison, da Vinci. Yeah, Few, few there.
• 37:59
  Yeah. Interesting.
• 38:01
  Edison. Yes.
• 38:02
  OK. Those are very good.
• 38:03
  Yeah, those are all, but they're not the first dinner, 1st
• 38:05
  dinner, Mary Kirie, the the second or third.
• 38:08
  Yeah, amazing. Well, look, thank you so much
• 38:12
  for coming on, Luba. It's been a pleasure.
• 38:15
  Wonderful. Thanks for having me, Max.
• 38:17
  Great to see. You.
• 38:18
  Yeah, absolutely. And please everyone like and
• 38:21
  subscribe to the bio hub. Thanks again, Luber.
• 38:24
  Thank you.