Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Why Your Kids Only Listen When There’s a Reward

Transcript

Why Your Kids Only Listen When There’s a Reward · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:06
Speaker 1: How does motivation really work? What even is motivation? When
0:08
Speaker 1: you want your child to be motivated to clean their room,
0:11
Speaker 1: unpack the dishwasherut wash the car, moh the lawn, be
0:14
Speaker 1: nice to their brother or their sister, or just show
0:16
Speaker 1: some respects, do their homework, read the book. You know,
0:19
Speaker 1: the stuff that we want the kids to be motivated for,
0:21
Speaker 1: and they seem to have no motivation at all for it.
0:25
Speaker 1: And yet they're so motivated to do other stuff like
0:28
Speaker 1: annoy their sister, or spend time on screens, you name it.
0:33
Speaker 1: The kids seem to be motivated for all the stuff
0:34
Speaker 1: we don't want them to do and unmotivated to do
0:37
Speaker 1: all the stuff we do want them to do. Today,
0:39
Speaker 1: on the Happy Families Podcast, we get into the nitty
0:41
Speaker 1: gritty of what motivation is, how it works, and how
0:44
Speaker 1: we can help children to find the kind of motivation
0:47
Speaker 1: that moves them. Literally, motivation means to move that moves
0:51
Speaker 1: them in the direction of action in areas that matter.
0:55
Speaker 1: I can't wait for this conversation. It's next stay with us.
1:00
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast, where you
1:02
Speaker 1: get real parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's
1:06
Speaker 1: most outloaded parenting podcast. We're so grateful that you're motivated
1:09
Speaker 1: to listen to it. We are Justin and Kylie Colson,
1:11
Speaker 1: parents have six kids on the author of eleven books
1:14
Speaker 1: with boys coming out. Today's the first of June, Kylie,
1:17
Speaker 1: first of June. That means the boys comes out. If
1:20
Speaker 1: I can do the mass properly in fifteen days, two
1:23
Speaker 1: weeks and one day, and boys is out. Quick question
1:27
Speaker 1: for you today's about motivation. How motivated are you to
1:29
Speaker 1: record this podcast?
1:32
Speaker 2: I can't believe you're asking me that.
1:33
Speaker 1: I'm just asking like on a scale.
1:35
Speaker 2: I was actually thinking about one of our children in
1:38
Speaker 2: particular and thinking about her motivation scale. Here's a kid
1:44
Speaker 2: who hates getting out of bed before I don't know.
1:49
Speaker 1: Maybe even twelve, and we've never allowed it with any
1:53
Speaker 1: of our other children. We're at number five now we're
1:55
Speaker 1: just over I mean, stay in bed if you want.
1:56
Speaker 1: It's easier for us to deal with you want. But
1:59
Speaker 1: thanks a lot.
2:00
Speaker 2: And she recently started having an opportunity to work with
2:06
Speaker 2: horses at three o'clock in the morning and we haven't
2:12
Speaker 2: had to settle an alarm. I have not had to
2:15
Speaker 2: get out of bed to wake her to remind her nothing.
2:19
Speaker 2: She's the one who's knocking on our door.
2:21
Speaker 1: She wakes me sat up at three and says time
2:23
Speaker 1: to go.
2:26
Speaker 2: And the interesting thing is she was recently signed up
2:30
Speaker 2: for an apprenticeship, which means that her relationship with that
2:34
Speaker 2: position has shifted, and so all of a sudden, we've
2:37
Speaker 2: gone from a volunteer position which she happily got up
2:41
Speaker 2: to and was happy to give all the time that
2:45
Speaker 2: was needed to Now her motivation is horses and money,
2:50
Speaker 2: and so when she goes, she's like, if I'm not
2:53
Speaker 2: getting paid for this, I don't think I want to
2:54
Speaker 2: be there.
2:55
Speaker 1: There's an incredible quote that I stumbled upon years and
2:59
Speaker 1: years ago from a researcher who said, who would have
3:02
Speaker 1: thought that play could be turned into work by paying
3:08
Speaker 1: someone to do it? That's paraphrase, it's not exactly right,
3:11
Speaker 1: but yeah, And it was the same with my radio career.
3:13
Speaker 1: I volunteered at radio stations and did whatever I could
3:15
Speaker 1: wherever I could for free for years. But once my
3:18
Speaker 1: radio career began, I'm not going to do that unless
3:20
Speaker 1: you're not going to unless you're gonna pay me. Like
3:22
Speaker 1: play became work because money became involved. That intrinsic love
3:26
Speaker 1: and desire disappears. You also quite definitely did not answer
3:31
Speaker 1: my question about how motivated you are to record this podcast.
3:34
Speaker 2: You would throwing shade at me because I looked like
3:37
Speaker 2: I was unmotivated. I was thinking about how I would
3:41
Speaker 2: respond to not that question.
3:43
Speaker 1: You're just interpreting the question is that I don't know
3:45
Speaker 1: why you would think that I would impune so negative motives.
3:50
Speaker 2: I love being on the podcast we have. I love
3:53
Speaker 2: having opportunities to get paid to talk to you.
3:58
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you haven't reached the point where
3:59
Speaker 1: you are you paying me for this conversation. No, I
4:02
Speaker 1: don't want to talk to you. That thing that is
4:04
Speaker 1: for that. Do you know what else? Though, it's really interesting.
4:07
Speaker 1: I was thinking because I've got that radio background and
4:09
Speaker 1: all things radio interest me. The big blow up with
4:12
Speaker 1: the court case and Kyle and Jackie O not that's
4:15
Speaker 1: still going. Oh well, it's apparently it's been put off
4:17
Speaker 1: to later in the year, the court case. But they
4:19
Speaker 1: signed this ten million dollar a year deal. And as
4:22
Speaker 1: I was listening to the way they spoke about the
4:24
Speaker 1: deal and how they could do what they want and
4:26
Speaker 1: say what they want, and they weren't going to show
4:27
Speaker 1: up or they weren't, and I just thought their motivation
4:30
Speaker 1: for the work has gone now because the money has
4:32
Speaker 1: become central. And that's our conversation today. Is not about money,
4:36
Speaker 1: but it is about motivation. And I want to unpack
4:39
Speaker 1: this thing that psychology researchers have developed over the last
4:42
Speaker 1: fifty to sixty years called the motivation continuum.
4:45
Speaker 2: I love this conversation. We've had this conversation so many
4:48
Speaker 2: times with our girls, and I see it play out
4:51
Speaker 2: in our lives in so many ways. But where did
4:53
Speaker 2: the idea of motivation come from in the first place?
4:55
Speaker 1: So I mentioned in the intro the owneera of motivation
4:58
Speaker 1: comes from. I think, I can't if it's Greek or Latin,
4:59
Speaker 1: but but it means to move. It's the same with
5:01
Speaker 1: emotion and motivation. It's all about movement and motivation. When
5:06
Speaker 1: psychology got involved with the idea up until about the
5:09
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, was always considered to be something outside of ourselves.
5:14
Speaker 1: It was about motivating people. So you create an environment
5:16
Speaker 1: where somebody will be motivated, and the way you motivate
5:19
Speaker 1: them is with carrots or sticks, with rewards or punishments.
5:22
Speaker 2: That's what we've got motivational speakers from. I'm assuming you.
5:25
Speaker 1: Kind of yeah, like, if you can provide a big
5:27
Speaker 1: enough inducement, you can move me from A to B.
5:30
Speaker 2: And the well, I think about Tony Robbins right right, yeah,
5:34
Speaker 2: and he's just full of energy.
5:37
Speaker 1: It's like passion.
5:39
Speaker 2: He's going to move you.
5:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right. So essentially that idea of external
5:43
Speaker 1: or extrinsic motivation is all there was. And there's a
5:47
Speaker 1: special form of psychology that was all about the study
5:50
Speaker 1: of this kind of motivation. It was called behaviorism. Behaviorism
5:53
Speaker 1: basically argued well into the nineteen seventies, and there are
5:56
Speaker 1: still pure behaviorists even today. Argues that you get people
6:00
Speaker 1: to do stuff because of the rewards that you wave
6:03
Speaker 1: under their nose or the sticks that you brandish above
6:06
Speaker 1: their head. I'm going to hit you with, I'm going
6:07
Speaker 1: to hurt you, or I'm going to reward you. Either way,
6:09
Speaker 1: you get this done. And a lot of people still
6:12
Speaker 1: like if you talk to people, are like, well, that's
6:13
Speaker 1: how the world works. That's why I go to work,
6:15
Speaker 1: That's that's what my employer does. If I don't do
6:17
Speaker 1: the work, I don't paid. And so they'll say, I'm
6:19
Speaker 1: doing the work because I'm extrinsically motivated. But in the
6:22
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies a couple of researchers started to talk about
6:25
Speaker 1: this thing called intrinsic motivation. Before that, there was no
6:29
Speaker 1: such thing as intrinsic motivation. No one talked about intrinsic motivation.
6:32
Speaker 1: That hadn't been studied. Of course it existed, but it
6:34
Speaker 1: hadn't been studied. And intrinsic motivation is this idea that
6:38
Speaker 1: I'm doing it because I want to. I'm doing it
6:39
Speaker 1: because it's inside of me. And the behaviorist said, no,
6:42
Speaker 1: there is nothing inside of you. You've just had all
6:44
Speaker 1: these external factors create a thought that now makes you
6:48
Speaker 1: believe that you're doing it because of what's inside you.
6:50
Speaker 1: But it's actually the environment that's making you do it.
6:52
Speaker 1: So this has been a big debate. Yes, I can.
6:57
Speaker 2: I can see how that works right out. It doesn't
7:00
Speaker 2: get up at three o'clock in the morning because she's
7:02
Speaker 2: going to help people. She's getting up because there are
7:05
Speaker 2: horses right like, that's part of the environment. And she
7:10
Speaker 2: will scoop, poop, and she will feed and she will
7:13
Speaker 2: get complete Oh my gosh, when she gets into my car,
7:17
Speaker 2: put a peg on. It's so bad. She will do
7:20
Speaker 2: all of that, not because she loves that, but for
7:24
Speaker 2: the chance to be in a horse's space, right.
7:27
Speaker 1: She loves the horses. So that's the intrinsic part. Okay,
7:30
Speaker 1: so let's move to today, because I don't want to
7:33
Speaker 1: spend too much time on the history of it. The
7:35
Speaker 1: motivation continuum says, well, let's complicate things a little bit.
7:39
Speaker 1: But actually, this makes so much more sense. There are
7:42
Speaker 1: three other kinds of motivation, or four technically, but we're
7:44
Speaker 1: only going to talk about three others that sit in
7:46
Speaker 1: between those two extremes. Everything's always so extreme. And when
7:51
Speaker 1: I talk to teachers, I keep on saying to them,
7:53
Speaker 1: we don't want to have classrooms that are built on
7:55
Speaker 1: external motivators. Like if you turn your classroom into a
7:58
Speaker 1: game show or into a threatening environment, if it's all
8:01
Speaker 1: about punishments and rewards, it's going to be really hard
8:04
Speaker 1: work for you and really hard work for the kids.
8:05
Speaker 1: The kids aren't learning because they want to, their learning
8:07
Speaker 1: because they have to. And even with rewards like rewards
8:11
Speaker 1: don't encourage kids to do the learning. Rewards encourage kids
8:14
Speaker 1: to get rewards. So that's the external stuff, the intrinsic stuff.
8:19
Speaker 1: I just I'm constantly saying to teachers, intrinsic motivation in
8:22
Speaker 1: the classroom is too high a bar. You're not going
8:24
Speaker 1: to find a way to get every student to be
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Speaker 1: intrinsically motivated to do calculus or algebra, or to write essays,
8:31
Speaker 1: or to run the cross country or to do the
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Speaker 1: science experiment. Like there will be some who just say
8:36
Speaker 1: I love maths so much that I would read a
8:38
Speaker 1: math's textbook for fun on the weekend. There will be
8:40
Speaker 1: some like that, but generally speaking, you won't find intrinsically
8:45
Speaker 1: motivated people in the school. And it's the same at
8:46
Speaker 1: home with the Dishwise, you're all putting the bins out
8:48
Speaker 1: or cleaning the room or being nice to sisters. The
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Speaker 1: intrinsic motivational bar is simply too high. So after the break,
8:55
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about the three other forms of
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Speaker 1: motivation that matter and how we can help get stuff done,
9:00
Speaker 1: how we can improve and change motivation levels in our
9:04
Speaker 1: home to make our family work better and to help
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Speaker 1: our kids be happier. That's next. We're back. This is
9:17
Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast astray as Most Downloaded parenty podcast
9:20
Speaker 1: talking about motivation today.
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Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever said this before on the podcast,
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Speaker 2: but yep, if you've got a pen and paper, take
9:27
Speaker 2: some notes, because this is a really good stuff.
9:30
Speaker 1: I appreciate the Missus Happy Family's endorsement. We've talked with
9:33
Speaker 1: our kids around the dining table and the living room
9:35
Speaker 1: and in the car about these levels of motivation again
9:37
Speaker 1: and again and again, and they know these words. So
9:40
Speaker 1: let's go back to the beginning. After external motivation, I'm
9:42
Speaker 1: doing it because someone's making me, or I'm doing it
9:44
Speaker 1: because I'm going to get a reward. There's this thing
9:47
Speaker 1: called introjected motivation. Interjective motivation is I'm doing it because
9:52
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to, because I should, because I just feel
9:55
Speaker 1: like I must do this.
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Speaker 2: So I eat Brussels sprouts because I know it should.
10:00
Speaker 2: They're good for me, but I don't love them.
10:02
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't need brussel sprust. No, I was going
10:04
Speaker 1: to say yeah, yeah, yeah, or it's I'm not eating
10:07
Speaker 1: the chocolate cake in the staff for inm today because
10:09
Speaker 1: I said that I was going to go on a diet.
10:10
Speaker 1: No one's making me abstain. I'm making myself abstain. But
10:14
Speaker 1: it's kind of like you've become the policeman, or you've
10:17
Speaker 1: become the school teacher, the school master, you've become the
10:20
Speaker 1: parent of you to make this stuff happen. You're not
10:24
Speaker 1: doing it because you know deep down that this is
10:26
Speaker 1: a good thing to do and that it's the right
10:28
Speaker 1: thing to do and it's what you want to do.
10:29
Speaker 1: You're doing it because you have to.
10:31
Speaker 2: It's kind of like it's like an obligation.
10:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, duty is the word that I would use there.
10:37
Speaker 1: And generally when people act out of obligation, act out
10:39
Speaker 1: of judy, they don't do it with a smile on
10:41
Speaker 1: their face. They're not thinking, oh my goodness, my life
10:43
Speaker 1: is so full, complete and rich because I'm doing this thing.
10:46
Speaker 1: They're doing it kind of miserably.
10:48
Speaker 2: But that's kind of man, chocolate right now.
10:51
Speaker 1: Right, you're abstaining from chocolate because you just you know,
10:53
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to eat it because you're trying to
10:55
Speaker 1: be healthy. Yeah, okay, great, So the next level and this.
10:58
Speaker 2: Kind of it feels like you're dray making your feet
11:00
Speaker 2: exactly hard work.
11:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, through quickstand mud slush. Yeah. The next one is
11:05
Speaker 1: the one that I really want to focus on. After extrinsic,
11:09
Speaker 1: we got it interjected. The next level up is called
11:13
Speaker 1: identified motivation. And I would say that this is the
11:17
Speaker 1: motivational workhorse. If you're dealing with an introjected child, it's
11:22
Speaker 1: hard work. You're no longer on their back so much.
11:24
Speaker 1: They're kind of making themselves do it, but they really
11:26
Speaker 1: hate it. Oh, and they'll let you know, and they'll
11:28
Speaker 1: let you know about it absolutely. But something happens when
11:31
Speaker 1: kids move from introject to identified, and this is what
11:36
Speaker 1: it is. When you identify the value of an activity
11:42
Speaker 1: or a behavior or whatever the thing is, you begin
11:46
Speaker 1: to internally endorse whatever you need to do to get there.
11:52
Speaker 1: And so let's take your chocolate example. If I say
11:56
Speaker 1: I really value my health, nothing feels as good as
12:00
Speaker 1: feeling fit feels, or I know that I feel much
12:05
Speaker 1: more vital when I keep off the process sugary stuff.
12:09
Speaker 1: I just I've identified that, and I value feeling vital
12:13
Speaker 1: and healthy and energized more than I value the taste
12:17
Speaker 1: of chocolate, even though I love chocolate. What happens is
12:19
Speaker 1: you start to endorse the idea that of standing from
12:21
Speaker 1: chocolate is highly valued, and because you've identified that, you
12:27
Speaker 1: value this no one ever has to start cracking the whip.
12:31
Speaker 1: And you don't even have to crack the whip on
12:32
Speaker 1: yourself anymore. You just go. You know, I just value
12:35
Speaker 1: my health more than I value the flavor of the chocolate,
12:37
Speaker 1: even though I like chocolate. I value my health more.
12:39
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, you've moved to endorsement. You've
12:42
Speaker 1: moved to this situation where you say, my ego's not
12:44
Speaker 1: involved anymore. This isn't about duty. This is just about
12:47
Speaker 1: improving myself, and I value improving myself done. If you
12:50
Speaker 1: can help your children to identify the value of staying
12:53
Speaker 1: off their screen, going to bed early, treating their sister
12:55
Speaker 1: or their brother with kindness and respect, getting their reading done,
12:58
Speaker 1: doing their music practice, participating in family activities and events.
13:03
Speaker 1: Once they identify the value, you don't have to be
13:06
Speaker 1: on their case anymore. It changes the game. There's this
13:09
Speaker 1: conversation that Alfie Kne has. He says, the question isn't
13:13
Speaker 1: how motivated is your child? The question is how is
13:17
Speaker 1: your child motivated? And if they're motivated extrinsically, it's always
13:22
Speaker 1: going to be hard work and you're always going to
13:23
Speaker 1: have to have surveillance on them.
13:25
Speaker 2: Well not only that you're going to have to have
13:27
Speaker 2: loss of carrots.
13:28
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. Yeah, lots of bribes, and it's just painful,
13:31
Speaker 1: hard work for you. If your child is motivated introjectedly,
13:36
Speaker 1: then the surveillance can ease off a little bit. But
13:40
Speaker 1: your child's not doing anything because it feels good. They're
13:42
Speaker 1: doing it because they're duty bound, and yeah, that's better
13:44
Speaker 1: than external but it's still pretty hard YAKA for them.
13:47
Speaker 1: It takes a toll, and research shows that it literally
13:49
Speaker 1: takes a cognitive and emotional toll on them. But once
13:53
Speaker 1: they get to identified, they're basically going, yeah, there's value
13:57
Speaker 1: in this. I guess I'm in. And it doesn't even
14:01
Speaker 1: mean that they like it, but they just get that
14:03
Speaker 1: it matters, so they're on board.
14:06
Speaker 2: Is it possible that you could identify with the fact
14:10
Speaker 2: that chocolate is not good for you, right and recognize
14:16
Speaker 2: all of the benefits And some days sit in that
14:20
Speaker 2: place of I just don't eat chocolate. I'm not that person,
14:26
Speaker 2: and then other days fall short.
14:28
Speaker 1: I'm asking for a friend. Yeah, because motivation changes, right, Like,
14:35
Speaker 1: you're not constantly identified or whatever the next ones are
14:38
Speaker 1: that I'm going to talk about. You're not constantly there,
14:40
Speaker 1: depending on the day, depending on how tired you are,
14:42
Speaker 1: depending on what's just happened in terms of conflict and
14:44
Speaker 1: tension with your loved ones or with a boss, that
14:48
Speaker 1: can impact the way that you're motivated.
14:50
Speaker 2: I know we're talking about me and chocolate, but I'm
14:53
Speaker 2: asking that because I see it in our children all
14:56
Speaker 2: the time. They identify with something a principle or a
15:01
Speaker 2: standard or just a way of being.
15:03
Speaker 1: I want to get on with my sisters. I like
15:04
Speaker 1: it when our home feels friendly and kind and.
15:08
Speaker 2: You can see it they understand it on all levels.
15:11
Speaker 2: And some days they're great, and other days it's just
15:14
Speaker 2: like you wouldn't know that they're the same kid.
15:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, that they had identified the value in that, and
15:20
Speaker 1: that's because on that day they've forgotten what they value.
15:23
Speaker 1: It's actually a question of values, right, And if I've
15:25
Speaker 1: forgotten what I value because my sister has just been
15:27
Speaker 1: snappy and snarky toward me, if I forget that I
15:29
Speaker 1: really do value kindness, I might snap back, or I
15:33
Speaker 1: might go, oh, I'm going to do the right thing
15:37
Speaker 1: because I'm supposed to here and I'm going to be
15:40
Speaker 1: I'm duty bound to group my teeth and get but
15:43
Speaker 1: there's there's real animosity and that kind of thing. So
15:46
Speaker 1: we can slide up and down the motivational continuum like
15:49
Speaker 1: this is not status.
15:50
Speaker 2: It's fluid.
15:51
Speaker 1: It's of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's dynamic because life
15:53
Speaker 1: is dynamic. If I wake up really really tired, research
15:57
Speaker 1: shows that my hormones and my brain some of that
16:02
Speaker 1: I do my brain surgutry and my neurotransmitter is I
16:06
Speaker 1: go to function differently today than they did yesterday when
16:09
Speaker 1: I got enough sleep. And therefore, when I'm confronted with
16:12
Speaker 1: trials and challenges and chocolate, which is where you were
16:16
Speaker 1: about to go, it's possible that my motivation is going
16:19
Speaker 1: to shift the kind the way that I'm motivated today
16:21
Speaker 1: may be different to the way that I was motivated.
16:23
Speaker 2: Yet having cream dynams.
16:26
Speaker 1: Anyway, Okay, so we've got identified identified as the workhorse.
16:29
Speaker 1: That's where we want to get the kids to if
16:30
Speaker 1: they can identify the value. We've done most of the
16:32
Speaker 1: work and now they will just go Okay, I get it,
16:35
Speaker 1: and that they're the key words. Yeah, I get it.
16:37
Speaker 1: I get it. Therefore I will not being forced to it.
16:39
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it out of duty. I get it.
16:41
Speaker 1: I'm in the next kind of motivation and we need
16:44
Speaker 1: to wrap this up because time is done. Is integrated motivation.
16:47
Speaker 1: Integrated motivation is when you get to the point where
16:49
Speaker 1: you say this is who I am, this is it's
16:53
Speaker 1: part of me.
16:54
Speaker 2: So you go from riding your bike to being a
16:56
Speaker 2: bike rider. Yes, you go from running to being a yeah.
17:00
Speaker 1: So it's pretty rare that I wake up and say, no,
17:02
Speaker 1: I just don't feel like riding today. I'm a cyclist.
17:06
Speaker 1: I love putting on my licra I love looking at
17:08
Speaker 1: my doko there shape legs in the mirror and saying,
17:13
Speaker 1: I'm going to go for another ride and They're going
17:15
Speaker 1: to look even better. At the end of this, I
17:16
Speaker 1: wish there was a camera. So that's integrated. Integrated is
17:21
Speaker 1: when you do it because it's who you are. There
17:23
Speaker 1: are still some days though, where even though it's who
17:25
Speaker 1: you are, you might say, oh gee, this is really hard,
17:27
Speaker 1: but I identify the value, so you slide back to identified,
17:30
Speaker 1: but at least you're still in. It's pretty rare that
17:31
Speaker 1: somebody who is genuinely integrated when it comes to their
17:34
Speaker 1: motivational style, of their regulation style for a particular activity,
17:37
Speaker 1: would be just doing it out of duty. It might
17:40
Speaker 1: happen from time to time, but it's rare, and it
17:42
Speaker 1: would be very very rare that they would only be
17:44
Speaker 1: doing it because of the reward they could get for it,
17:47
Speaker 1: or to avoid punishment. So the further down that end
17:50
Speaker 1: of the motivation continue you go, the less likely it
17:53
Speaker 1: is that you're going to slide down the other end.
17:54
Speaker 1: So while it is dynamic, well it's not static. The
17:58
Speaker 1: movement isn't usually twist. And then the last one is intrinsic. Okay,
18:02
Speaker 1: so we've gone from extra and intrinsic means I do
18:04
Speaker 1: it because I love it. That's me and surfing. It's
18:06
Speaker 1: me and spending time with you. No one has to
18:09
Speaker 1: bribe me. I don't do it out of duty. I've
18:11
Speaker 1: never looked at my surf on and gone, oh, I
18:12
Speaker 1: really should take it out in the water. I don't
18:15
Speaker 1: even do it because I say, I identify that there's
18:17
Speaker 1: value in getting out in the water and having some
18:19
Speaker 1: nature in my life, or I identify there's value in
18:22
Speaker 1: me talking to my wife right now. It's the right
18:24
Speaker 1: thing to do. No, it's number one who I am,
18:27
Speaker 1: It's integrated, and number two, I love it. It's intrinsic,
18:31
Speaker 1: Like I check the surf every day, and if the
18:32
Speaker 1: surf is on, I'm there. I'm not going to go
18:35
Speaker 1: for a bike ride that day because I love surfing.
18:37
Speaker 1: Surfing is my number one. That's my joy. If I
18:41
Speaker 1: get to spend time with you, You've got time for me,
18:44
Speaker 1: I'm there. I can't think of anything I'd rather do
18:46
Speaker 1: than go for a walk, grab a treat with you,
18:49
Speaker 1: one of those jamming cream doughnuts that we're not eating.
18:52
Speaker 1: I'll go and buy some lunch, or just go for
18:54
Speaker 1: a walk along the beach or along the path, well
18:56
Speaker 1: around the block with the dog. Because it means that
18:57
Speaker 1: I get to be with you. That's intrinsic. And so
19:01
Speaker 1: when we want our kids to be motivated, the name
19:04
Speaker 1: of the game is not that we want them to
19:06
Speaker 1: be motivated, but it's how we want them to be
19:08
Speaker 1: motivated or regulated. And if we can get them to identified,
19:12
Speaker 1: or even better integrated or profoundly intrinsically regulated, we just
19:19
Speaker 1: don't have to crack the whip anymore. And that comes
19:22
Speaker 1: to conversations.
19:24
Speaker 2: So if we wanted to just kind of put this
19:25
Speaker 2: into real life terms, how this plays out in our house,
19:30
Speaker 2: we believe that you're part of a family, and as
19:34
Speaker 2: part of a family, you just get in and your help.
19:37
Speaker 2: But so many families choose to pay children to do jobs,
19:43
Speaker 2: and as soon as you add a dollar figure to a.
19:47
Speaker 1: Job, it becomes extrinsic it totally.
19:50
Speaker 2: It undermines the whole value of being part of a
19:55
Speaker 2: team and just getting in, mucking in, doing what needs
19:58
Speaker 2: to be done when it needs to be.
19:59
Speaker 1: Done, and the good feeling of doing a job well done.
20:02
Speaker 1: So Emerson said, the reward of a job well done
20:04
Speaker 1: is to have done it.
20:05
Speaker 2: Yeah.
20:05
Speaker 1: But once you start paying somebody, once you start to
20:08
Speaker 1: bring in external motivators, people start doing the thing. Like
20:13
Speaker 1: when you say do this and you get that, the
20:15
Speaker 1: focus is not on this, The focus is on that
20:18
Speaker 1: because I want the outcome. I want the I want that,
20:20
Speaker 1: I want the money, I want the trip to the park,
20:22
Speaker 1: I want the time with my friends, I want the screen.
20:24
Speaker 1: So the whole idea here is we have conversations with
20:27
Speaker 1: our kids where they start to identify that there's value
20:30
Speaker 1: in doing this, there's value in being together, there's value
20:32
Speaker 1: in making a contribution, there's value in helping out. And
20:35
Speaker 1: that can be a pretty hard sell sometimes and that's
20:39
Speaker 1: where the three's come in. For those of you who
20:40
Speaker 1: have listened to the pot for a while, you know
20:42
Speaker 1: about the three e's. Three e's of effective discipline is
20:45
Speaker 1: what gets you to identified because as you say, we'll
20:47
Speaker 1: wear are you up to? Well, here's what I need.
20:49
Speaker 1: So how are we going to work this out in
20:50
Speaker 1: a way that we can feel good about. How can
20:52
Speaker 1: we problem solve this so that you can see that
20:54
Speaker 1: there is value in doing this. That's really what the
20:56
Speaker 1: three is of effective discipline are about.
20:58
Speaker 2: What I love about that is it's aversation about bringing
21:01
Speaker 2: your children into the solution.
21:04
Speaker 1: Precisely. We could talk about this for a lot longer.
21:07
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21:10
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21:14
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21:23
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21:28
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Speaker 1: com dot AU. That's it for today. We're back tomorrow
21:39
Speaker 1: with more on the Happy Families podcast, which is produced
21:41
Speaker 1: by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Mimhammonds provides our admin
21:45
Speaker 1: and other support, and if you would like more info
21:47
Speaker 1: to make your family happier, you'll find all of it
21:49
Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot A. You