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REWIND: The Forgotten Steelers Rivalry · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_06: Hi everybody, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories podcast.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_06: I am your co-host Tim Hannon, and with me as always, I'm Steve Wirt.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_06: And on this episode, we are going to talk about the Steelers and the Denver Broncos.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_06: The Steelers have had a lot of rivalries over the years.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_06: And if you ask somebody who's the Steelers' biggest rival, I think I think a lot of that depends on when you ask the question.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_06: So if you would have asked in the seventies, people would have said the Oakland Raiders or the Houston Oilers.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_06: If you asked in the 90s, people might have said Cleveland or even Jacksonville for a short time when they were playing in the same division as us.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_06: And I think if you ask people today, a lot of people would answer with the Baltimore Ravens.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_06: I think though that very few people would answer that question by saying the Denver Broncos.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_06: Right?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: The Denver Broncos.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um the Denver Broncos are always like like I don't, they're an old school AFC team, which they're not a traditional rival.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like when I think of like traditional rivals for the Steelers, I always think of like Giants, Eagles, Packers, Bears.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like the teams that we played back in the like 30s through 60s that we stun when we stunk.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And like the newer rivals definitely, well, even the Browns, the Browns are pretty, you know.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: But the Browns are definitely our biggest rival for a long time.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, you know, when and they kind of took that with them to Baltimore.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: But but like maybe the Browns, the Browns are starting to get good again, so maybe they're kind of coming back on the radar a little bit.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: But Jacksonville definitely was was uh they won so much coming out of the gate.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, we're in that we're in that big division too.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like there was like what six teams in that division?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was yeah, it was a large division.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: And like Houston, too.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like everybody forgets about the Houston Oilers.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like that.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was a big rivalry back in the 70s.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_06: So yep.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yep.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, lots of good rivals.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_06: But but with Denver, uh the Steelers and Broncos have actually met eight times in the postseason, and that's the most in AFC history.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_06: In fact, the only more common matchup in in NFL history for playoffs is Rams versus Cowboys, but almost all of those meetings were in the 70s.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_06: And the Steelers and Broncos have been playing each other in the playoffs over the past five decades.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_06: They've they've actually played each other uh in all five decades since the AFL NFL merger in the playoffs at least once, uh sometimes multiple times.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So uh And uh I'm thinking of these games.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Boy, they're um well, I'll let you get into it, but there aren't there, there's not a lot of success here, is there?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: For the Steelers, yeah.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's it's uh so so the eight games, uh the Broncos win five of those, the Steelers win three of those, and we'll talk through those.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_06: Um the the Steelers, the winner of that game between the Steelers and Broncos, those eight playoff games, actually goes on to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl six of those eight times.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_06: So it ends up being an important game.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_06: And and so we'll we'll kind of dive into that.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_06: And for the purpose of this episode, we're gonna stick to those eight playoff games.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_06: There are definitely some notable regular season games between these two teams that we could delve into.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_06: But but again, eight playoff games against each other is more than than the Steelers have played against any other team.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_06: And so I think that's significant, and I think that you know we'll we'll kind of talk at the end, like, well, does that really constitute a rivalry given the fact that you know these two teams are have met with so much on the line so many times, right?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_06: And because I love fun facts, we will also share a fun fact from each of these eight games as well.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_06: Ooh, sounds like fun.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_06: That's why they're called fun facts.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_06: So we'll we'll start off with their first ever playoff game against each other.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_06: That's in 1977 at Denver.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_06: So so the AFL NFL merger happens in 1970, and that puts the NFL's Steelers, like you said, Steve, they were kind of on the old school team against and also the AFL's Broncos into this new American football conference with each other.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_06: And in the 1970s, you have four teams who dominate the AFC.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_06: It's the Steelers, Dolphins, Raiders, and Colts.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_06: Those four teams had the most playoff appearances in that decade.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_06: And by 1977, uh they're the only four teams who've represented the AFC in the Super Bowl, and uh they've all won at least one Super Bowl.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_06: So those are like the big four.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_06: Wait a minute, you missed the Chiefs.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_06: Or no, that was that six leagues.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_06: That was 1969, and that was pre-merger.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_06: So yes.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_06: Super Bowl.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: I thought Super Bowl three was not the merger.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_06: Nope.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Super Bowl, so um Super Bowl uh five in 1970, that was the year that the two leagues merged together, and that's the first year they had like an AFC championship game and an NFC championship game.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it was this first Super Bowl was the AFL NFL championship game.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_06: The first in the first four Super Bowls, even though they started calling it the Super Bowl, the first four Super Bowls are still AFL NFL.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_06: So it's not until the 70s that you have conferences, and from 1970 through 77, again, only those four teams have represented the AFC in the Super Bowl.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_06: Interesting.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_06: But now, you know, we're kind of into that later part of the decade, and there's there's some new blood in the conference, and one of those teams that is kind of one of those up-and-coming teams is Denver.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_06: They've been a mediocre team basically this this whole time that they've been in the AFC, but in 1977, they go 12-2.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_06: That's good for the best record in football.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_06: And they beat out the Raiders for the AFC West Division title, which was really big at the time because, again, the Raiders were so dominant in that era.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_06: They have a new head coach, his name is Red Miller, he's named the NFL's coach of the year.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_06: And their quarterback is Craig Morton.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_06: He's a veteran, and he he's been around for a while.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_06: He's actually the guy that was the quarterback in Dallas pre-Roger Staubach.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_06: And really the strength of their team that year is their defense.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_06: They have this really strong defense.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_06: It has a cool nickname.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_06: It's called the Orange Crush Defense because they wore those orange uniforms.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_06: And so their team is kind of the strong defense, game manager, quarterback type of team.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_06: And we'll actually see a lot of those kinds of teams as we go through this series.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_06: That'll be a common theme.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_06: Uh meanwhile, the Steelers, they're they're still a superpower.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, this is right in the middle of the 1970s, but they're having a difficult season in 1977.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_06: It really all starts with a bunch of training camp drama.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, if you if you heard our episode of our top ten forgotten Pittsburgh Sports Stories, we delved into this a little bit.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_06: Um, Mel Blunt had filed a lawsuit against Chuck Knoll.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um, Jack Lambert and Glenn Edwards had both held out, and it got really ugly in the media and some of the back and forth.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Ernie Holmes had been arrested for cocaine possession.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_06: So they come into the season with all this drama, and the Steelers were not a team that you know had a lot of drama.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_06: And so this was an odd season for them.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the defense is also slipping.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_06: They actually allow a hundred more points in 1977 than they had in 1976.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_06: So you figure you divide that over a um a 14-game season, you know, you're giving up about a touchdown more a game.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, so that's pretty significant.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_06: And uh in right in the middle of the season, they they actually lose to Denver at Mile High Stadium, and that puts them at 4-4 on the season.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_06: So they're they're barely, they're they're right at 500 right in the middle of the season, which again was unusual for that era.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_06: They do string together enough wins to take a weak AFC Central division.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_06: The the one of these two teams winning their division because it was a weak division that year will also be a theme that we'll see again.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, but now they have to go on the road uh back to Denver for the divisional playoff round.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_06: And so the the kind of like the you know, the matchup for this game is aging dynasty versus the hungry new kids on the block.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_06: In the first half of the game, the defense for the Steelers uh kind of breaks out of their season-long funk.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_06: They play really well, they hold Denver to just 44 yards, but the offense and special teams make mistakes.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_06: Franco Harris has a costly fumble and a punt is blocked.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_06: So even though the Steelers have outgained the Broncos yardage-wise, the game's tied at 14 at halftime because of those miscues.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_06: And then in the second half, Denver is able to take the lead.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_06: Uh they they still have the lead in the fourth quarter.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_06: The Steelers are trying to come back.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_06: Bradshaw throws two interceptions, both of them are to linebacker Tom Jackson, who, you know, for those of you that that grew up on uh ESPN's NFL primetime like I did, you recognize TJ uh from that show.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_06: From yes.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_06: Uh at the time he's a linebacker on this on this Orange Crush defense.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_06: He has two interceptions.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_06: That that second interception that Bradshaw throws is like particularly egregious.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_06: Um it cut it comes as the Steelers are trying to drive for the game-winning touchdown in the final two minutes, and it's very Neil O'Donnell-esque, where TJ's kind of covering grass, and you have no idea where Bradshaw was even looking.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_06: So that ices the game.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_06: The final score is Broncos 34, Steelers 21.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_06: And the Steelers had led the NFL in turnovers that season.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_06: Again, it was just a sloppy down season, and they just continued that into the playoff game, made a bunch of mistakes, interceptions, fumbles, blocked punts.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_06: But then you, you know, you so you could say that the Steelers shot themselves in the foot, but you could also say that Denver had this really great defense, and really great defenses step up and make big splash plays when the offense maybe isn't carrying them.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_06: Uh I I think for this game for 1977, I think one thing is certain.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, Denver was just the better team that year.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, they were the better team all season, and they you know, they they did enough to win that game.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_06: They do go on to beat Oakland the next week in the in a very controversial AFC championship game, uh, and then they get blown out by Dallas in Super Bowl XII.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_06: So our fun fact for this game, uh, I I was watching the broadcast of this on the internet, and and I noticed something odd.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_06: So they they have the two end zones painted blue, and in one end zone it says Broncos, but in the other end zone it says Steelers.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_06: Like they painted Steelers in their end zone at Mile High Stadium.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_06: So I thought that was kind of weird because you you'd see that for like the Super Bowl, right?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_06: Where like the two end zones have the two different teams.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_06: But I don't know that I'd ever seen that at an opposing stadium.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_06: And I went and looked it up, and it I guess it was actually a thing back then.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Chris Kremer, who who has the logo website, it's a great website if you've never seen it, and we'll post a link to this.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_06: He he documents a bunch of the times where that happened.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_06: And actually the Steelers had done it too.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_06: When they hosted the 72 AFC Championship game, um, they had two yellow end zones, and one said steel, one said Pittsburgh and one said Miami.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_06: So I just thought that was kind of odd.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like uh okay.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of a weird, weird thing to do.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I guess it's not a home.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's if it was a neutral site game, but that's uh I don't I don't know.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I wonder why it died out.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I guess just you know nobody wanted to do that anymore.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I guess nobody wanted to have the other team's name in their end zone.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't know why you won there in the first place.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: A player could dance on it or something, yeah.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Your own.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah, Juju would have liked that.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_06: Uh so this is thought to be like a passing of the torch game, right?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_06: The Steelers had not gone one and done in the playoffs for a while, and now their dynasty appears to be over, but hold everything because the next game on this list is the next year, the 1978 divisional playoffs, this time at Pittsburgh.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_06: So in 1978, the Steelers proved that 1977 was not the end of their dynasty.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_06: It was just sort of a bump in the road.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_06: They go 14-2.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_06: The defense is once again dominant, Bradshaw is the league MVP, and today that 78 team is widely considered as one of the great teams in NFL history.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_06: The Broncos are no slouch either.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_06: They're the defending AFC champions.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_06: They go 10-6, you know, not as dominant as their 12-2 record the year before, but still good enough to repeat as AFC West champions, and their defense is still really good too.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_06: It's ranked number two in the league.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_06: So that sets up a rematch in the divisional round.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_06: Uh again, this time it's a three-over stadium, but this one really isn't even close.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_06: The Steelers manhandle the Orange Crush defense, and they win the game 33-10.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, this series is going to see some heroes and some goats.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_06: And uh the goat of this game is Denver cornerback Steve Foley, who has the job of covering John Stalworth.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, Denver makes the dubious decision to double cover Lynn Swan.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_06: They just they fear Lin, like we're not gonna let Lin Swan beat us because Lin Swan was really at the height of his powers that year.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and so they double cover Swan and they leave Steve Foley a one-on-one with Stalworth.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_06: Stallworth sets a playoff record with 10 receptions for 156 yards and a touchdown.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_06: So that's that's really the key to the game.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_06: They the Steelers just exploit that matchup and they they win uh by 23 points.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_06: Um one of the defensive assistant coaches for Denver who came up with that game plan to leave Stalworth one-on-one with Foley is a guy named Bill Belichick.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_06: Well, maybe he should have double covered uh Stalworth.
• 14:31
  unknown: I don't know.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, you know, big mistake for that guy.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_06: I doubt he did anything significant after that.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I wonder whatever happened to him.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Never heard of him again.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the Steelers go on to win their third Super Bowl.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the fun fact for this game, the Steelers had actually played at Denver for the last game of the regular season.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_06: So these two teams actually played each other twice in a row.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_06: And I thought that was kind of unique too, that you know, they they they played each other two weeks in a row because of the the last game of the season and then the first playoff game.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, for a non-divisional opponent, that's kind of odd.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_06: Well, you wouldn't see that today because now you always play inside your division the last week of the season.
• 15:13
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_06: But that that only started a few years ago.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um and and I think and I've seen that happen before where teams play each other two weeks in a row.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's a weird or like when that game's like really not like if there's not a lot along the line, like like I think the Jets, I remember the Jets, it happened to the Jets one year.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And like they just didn't play anybody, and they didn't like they ran like it's like, yeah, running back up the middle is gonna be our offense today.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, especially if you know you're playing the team again.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_06: So that's that's the the two games in the 70s.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_06: Let's jump ahead to the 1984 divisional playoffs at Denver.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_06: Uh by this point, 1984, Red Miller is out in Denver, and Dan Reeves is in as the head coach.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_06: Uh and and Denver, you know, they still had a pretty decent team going into the 80s, but they really catch a huge break when Stanford quarterback John Elway refuses to sign with the Baltimore Colts, the team that drafted him number one overall in the 83 draft.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_06: And he he tells them, hey, I'm I'm not going to play for you, I'll go play baseball instead.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_06: And so the Broncos jump in, they engineer a huge trade to get Elway.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_06: And, you know, as they say the rest is history, Elway goes on to become the single greatest player in the history of their franchise.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_06: And by 1984, he's already one of the best quarterbacks in the league.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_06: It's only his second year, but he leads Denver to a 13-3 record and an AFC West Championship.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_06: And Denver is really on the precipice of becoming the dominant AFC team of the 1980s, which they they do become.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_06: At least in the AFC.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_06: Well, yeah, and that was only saying so much because the AFC did not do fair well that that in that era when it came to Super Bowls.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've always thought that if you put that Denver, like that 1980s Denver teams in like the NFC, they're probably lucky to make the playoffs.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I doubt they even make one Super Bowl.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Never mind when they make three.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and that that that probably is true.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_06: But yeah, the AFC, they definitely own the AFC.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_06: And this was kind of the beginning of it.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_06: You know, 13 and 3.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the Steelers are kind of going in the opposite direction.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, many of those players from the 70s have retired.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_06: And and we we detailed this.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_06: We did an episode about the 1980 Steelers.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, they just they really struggle with the rebuild.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_06: They have some really poor drafts, make some really bad decisions.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_06: In 1984, Mark Malone is their quarterback, which isn't real exciting.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_06: They actually have a decent season.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_06: They go 9-7, and lucky for them, I told you this is going to be a theme.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_06: Lucky for them, the division stinks that year.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_06: So they're in the playoffs as the AFC Central champion.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_06: And back then you only had two wild cards.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_06: So the wild cards played each other in wild card week, and all three division champions got a buy into the division round.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_06: So they they end up playing in the divisional round at Denver.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_06: Denver is heavy favorites.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_06: Um, you know, they're playing at home.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_06: Denver was so hard to beat at home, especially at old mile high.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_06: You had like that thin air, you had the loud noise.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the Broncos in that stadium were 11-2 all times, all time in the playoffs.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_06: They rarely lost at home when it came to playoff games.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I still think they are like almost it's very tough to win in Denver.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just it it it just no matter what.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like regular season, you can maybe pull it off, but I think in the in the playoffs, it's almost impossible.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_06: Like it's just it's very difficult for sure.
• 18:57
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_06: But some teams have done it, and this is this is one of them.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_06: So so that year the Broncos have a very opportunistic defense.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_06: They're second in the NFL in takeaways, and they actually scored eight defensive touchdowns that year, which is which is a lot.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_06: So that defense for Denver, they're they they make splash plays, and and Chuck Knoll decides to game plan around that.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_06: The the whole week before the game, he has his running back.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_06: So he has these two running backs that are carrying a big um chunk of the load that year, Walter Abercrombie and Frank Pollard.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_06: And he has them being practiced, has them practice being stripped all week.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_06: Uh he thinks that Denver is probably more apt to go for a strip than they are to wrap you up and tackle you.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_06: So he thinks that if he can just practice getting them to hold on to the ball no matter what, you know, they can gain some extra yards.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_06: Uh it doesn't go well at first.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_06: The Broncos actually recovered two fumbles in the first six minutes of the game.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, however, that was that was Malone fumbling, not the running backs.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, poor Mark Malone.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he should have practiced more on fumbling, not fumbling, instead of the running bags.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: So bad call by Well, could Chuck Knoll was right, he just picked the wrong player, I guess.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I've never seen this game.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I I don't know, was it like legit fumbles like he just got hit and there was no helping it, or was it careless?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I think I think it was like like quarterback fumbles, you know, fumbling snaps and things like that.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_06: Uh bad.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_06: So so yeah, so that that leads to Denver taking a 7-0 lead.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but the Steelers, you know, they decide they're gonna stick with the running game because with Mark Millen as your quarterback, I think they just figure that's your best chance to beat this team.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_06: And the and pretty soon holes start to open up.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Pollard and Abercrombie combined for 174 yards rushing in this game.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_06: And Pollard especially had a huge game.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, Frank Pollard did not have a uh a Stellar Steelers career, but this was definitely his signature game.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_06: He was just dominant uh in this playoff game.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_06: So we're we're we're getting ready Frank Pollard's bust for the Hall of Fame for sure.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_06: If you based it off of the 1984 postseason, he would be there.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_06: Uh it it's a it's a real tight back and forth game.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_06: It's tied at 17 late in the fourth quarter, but the Steelers drive.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_06: They drive really deep into Denver territory inside the 10-yard line.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_06: Denver's defense holds, but the Steelers now have the opportunity to take the lead with a 26 yard field goal, which is an absolute kip shot.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, that's like an extra point.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_06: Their kicker is Gary Anderson, who's the most accurate kicker in the history of the franchise.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_06: And he misses.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_06: He misses a twenty six yard field goal.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_06: You know, he would do that fourteen years later, too.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_06: Uh in a play.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_06: He would.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_06: He would.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_06: Just something about Gary Anderson in playoff games that Did not go well.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_06: So now the game's still tied, and there's only about two minutes left, and Elway gets the ball back.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_06: And so you kind of know what's coming, right?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_06: It's going to be one of these patented John Lway uh drives the team down the field to get the game winning field goal, and that's going to be the end of the Steelers.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_06: But instead, this happens.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: Intercepted by Eric Williams at the train.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: Williams.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: is out of bounds at the two yard line.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: Eric Williams.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_06: So Eric Williams, the the you know very famous Steelers defensive back, I always say this is like the greatest play in Steelware history that absolutely nobody would remember.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_06: Um it's such a big play because he he intercepts Elway and and runs it all the way back to the two-yard line.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_06: A couple of plays later, Pollard punches it in for the touchdown, and it's game over.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_06: And the Steelers win in the final minutes at Denver, uh, really on the back of that of that turnover.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, Dick Enberg didn't even give him an O Mai for that.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_06: So there was an O Mai when Anderson missed the field goal.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_06: I almost played that just to get the Dick Enberg.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_06: Um it's it's a pretty shocking upset.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_06: Again, Denver was 13-3 that year.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_06: They had four more wins than that Steeler team, and they they never lost at home.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the Steelers do go on to lose the AFC title game the next week to Miami.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but it's it's kind of a bright spot in an era where the Steelers really didn't have a lot of bright spots.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_06: Our fun fact for this game, uh, we mentioned it was always second year, but it was not his first game against the Steelers.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_06: His first game against the Steelers was actually his very first NFL game, period.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_06: It's a three-river stadium in week one of the 83 season, his rookie year.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_06: And in that game, there was a lot of hype around that game, given you know everything that had transpired in the draft and everything, and it really didn't go so well for Elway.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Donnie Shell picks him off, Jack Lambert sacks him, and Elway is pulled uh out of the game at halftime.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_06: And and later Elway had this quote uh from that game about you know being in the NFL for the first time and about facing Jack Lambert.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_06: And here was the quote.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_06: He said he had no teeth and he was slobbering over himself.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_06: I'm thinking you can have your money back, just get me out of here, or let me go be an accountant.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_06: I can't tell you how badly I went it out of there.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good for him.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he stuck with it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I I remember that.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't uh Lambert say something that he thought he was going to be a good quarterback or something like that, even though he'd had a bad game or I don't remember, but I mean if he did, he he was right on the money, and like you said, Elway definitely you know came back and that certainly didn't define his career by any means.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's uh I mean that's when like rookies just didn't come in and like hey, look at me, I'm all like good.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like it took a took like a year to get great.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I guess Merino had a pretty good rookie year, so maybe it's not completely.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you're right.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's different than it is today.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_06: I think today you you know that's why you see teams like cutting their first round pick in their second year now, because they feel like they've had enough time to prove themselves.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_06: You you saw that this past season with Washington and Dwayne Haskins.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_06: And I think back then sometimes those guys didn't even play until their second or third year, even though they were high draft picks.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, and then you Buffalo kind of went the opposite with uh Allen.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: They really hung in there with him, and it's really paid off for him.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and Allen, like I thought that a couple years ago.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I thought Allen reminded me of Terry Bradshaw before Bradshaw became the polished quarterback that he was.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: He really does.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And he did the Allen, Allen, boy, that really paid off for them, and it's nice to see it pay off for that kid.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, for sure.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the other the other interesting thing about that that opening game in '83, they like I said, we they pulled Elway at halftime, and then Steve DeBurr came in for the Broncos and he actually won the game.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_06: So the Steelers lost that game.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but yeah, L Way, LA does pretty well after this.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_06: So let's jump ahead five more years.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_06: The 1989 divisional playoffs, also at Denver.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_06: And by this point, at the end of the decade, Denver is the clear-cut best team in the AFC.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_06: They've been to the Super Bowl twice, and in 1989, they have the best record in the AFC, and they're looking to win the conference for a third time.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_06: And and Elway at this point, he's no longer a second-year phenom that was scared of Jack Lambert.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_06: He's now a Denver legend.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, he had engineered the drive to lead Denver past Cleveland in the 86 AFC Championship game.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_06: So at this point, John Elway is you know legendary already.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well entrenched.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well entrenched.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: He's even getting Simpsons references.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_06: He was.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_06: The Steelers, meanwhile, have been suffering through years of decline, and they're coming off of what to this day is still their worst season of the past 50 years in 1988.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, and and they promptly start off the 89 season by losing their first two games by a combined score of 92 to 10.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_06: So that 89 season looked like it was going to be just horrific.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_06: But miraculously, they start stringing together some wins, and it's not pretty, but they somehow, by the end of it, they squeak into the playoffs as the final wild card team.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_06: The Steelers that year have the NFL's worst offense.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's there were 28 teams and they were ranked number 28.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Bubby Brister is the quarterback.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_06: He has more interceptions than touchdown passes.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_06: The leading rush are on that offense was rookie Tim Rowley, who was nicknamed Whoops because he had a penchant for fumbling quite often.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_06: And and that team, the the offense was so bad, they were shut out three different times.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_06: I I don't know that you really ever see that again, a team getting shut out three times in a season.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_06: And making the playoffs.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_06: And then making the playoffs.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_06: Uh ESPN later names the 1989 Steelers as the worst team ever to qualify for the playoffs.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but you know what?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_06: Not only do they make it, they also pull off a massive overtime upset against the Houston Oilers in the wild card game.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_06: And uh they that earns them a trip to Denver for the divisional round.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_06: So just like 1984, the Steelers are big underdogs going to Denver.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_06: But uh but I would say probably they're even bigger underdogs this time.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_06: You know, given the track record of the two franchises in recent years and the fact that this game literally matches the NFL's number one defense, which was Denver, against the NFL's worst offense, which is Pittsburgh.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, that was just a recipe for a fourth shutout.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_06: It really was.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_06: But once again, the Steelers are game.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the hero, we talked about heroes and goats, the hero of this game is running back Meryl Hodge for the Steelers.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_06: He runs for 120 yards and catches eight passes for 60 yards.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_06: Merrill Hodge always had like great big games.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_06: He was he was he was a big game player for sure.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_06: And this was his biggest.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, they just could not stop him that day.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_06: Merrill Hodge of all yeah, of all people, yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because he was kind of a fullback, too.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: He really wasn't a running back.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it just was I don't know.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because Denver didn't see it coming, I don't know.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and he had had a good game against Houston the week before, too.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I I don't know what it was, but that was that was just you know a guy in a moment kind of thing, I guess.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_06: The Steelers actually take a 10-0 lead in this game.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_06: So they're they're up 10-0 at Denver.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_06: And it looks like they're gonna maybe pull off another huge upset.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_06: But Elway leads Denver back to make it a close game.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_06: Uh late in the fourth quarter, the Steelers actually still have a six-point lead.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_06: And and again, just like just like 1984, Elway gets the ball back late with a chance to lead the team down the field.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, but this time Eric Williams isn't there to make an interception.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_06: And uh Elway drives the length of the field, they get a touch, the go-ahead touchdown in the game's final minutes.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_06: There was still some time on the clock uh for Burster to try to drive the team down the field because when Elway scored, it made it it made the score 24-23 Denver.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_06: So the Steelers are down by one.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_06: If they can get into field goal range, again, that that week before, um Gary Anderson had won that game with a 50-yard field goal in overtime.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_06: And and that thin air in Denver, you know, if you can just get him sort of semi-close, you could maybe attempt a long field goal, but it doesn't happen.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_06: Uh a wide receiver that no one would ever remember, named Mark Stock, drops a pass that would have been like a 20-yard gain.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_06: And then Brister fumbles like a low snap, and Denver recovers, and that's it.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_06: That's the game's over.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_06: So uh Denver wins, they go on to beat Cleveland in the AFC Championship game the following week, and they go on to once again get blown out in the Super Bowl uh against the San Francisco 49ers.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_06: Our fun fact for this game Bubby Brister actually finishes the game with a higher passer rating than John Elway.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_06: Uh years later, of course, Bubby ends up being Elway's backup in Denver.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And gets a Super Bowl ring for his two Super Bowl rings, I think.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think he was on both, but uh that is like wild that uh well Bubby had a pretty good game.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I guess they found their offense later in the season there.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, but like we said, the AFC wasn't all that great, and Denver's defense really wasn't.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: They had that one safety, I remember, if I remember correctly.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or was that the year before?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: They they just weren't very good on in their secondary because like the 49ers totally exposed them in the Super Bowl.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it it was it was one of the rare times in the Super Bowl that you had like the league's number one defense against a really good offense.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_06: You typically when you see that in Super Bowl history, the defense is the is the team with the number one defense is the one that either wins the game or at least doesn't get blown out 55 to 10, which is what happened to Denver in the Super Bowl that year.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_06: So maybe you're right, Steve, that maybe they you know they had a good rate of defense, but maybe they had some holes, and maybe the Steelers started to exploit it in this game, and certainly the team, the Calibur San Francisco, was gonna exploit it, you know, big time.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I mean if Mark Stock and Bubby Brister and you know what's it say, Merrill Hodge, or I can't imagine, you know.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess you can imagine what uh Jerry Rice and you know Roger Craig, they're probably gonna win 50 points on you.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_06: Now, let's jump ahead to 1997.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_06: That's the next time these two teams meet in the postseason, and it's the AFC championship game, and this one is at Pittsburgh.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_06: So in the 1990s, both teams kind of go through a transformation.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the Steelers, you know, like we mentioned, years and years of mediocrity in the 80s, but they become a contender again under new head coach Bill Cower.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_06: And and for Denver, they lost all those Super Bowls in the late 80s.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_06: They fire Dan Reeves.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_06: They hire offensive coach Mike Shanahan, and he really reinvents the offense.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_06: Uh he drafts a running back named Terrell Davis and makes him the centerpiece of the offense, and it it works really well.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_06: It kind of makes it where Elwe doesn't have to do everything by himself anymore.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_06: And by 1997, both of those teams are at the top of the conference.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_06: They they meet in December of that year in a game in Pittsburgh, and it's a great back and forth game that the Steelers win thanks to their quarterback, Cordell Stewart, who accounts for five touchdowns.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_06: He has three passing touchdowns and two rushing touchdowns.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_06: And because and you know, we talked about that game in our episode we did about Cordell.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, Steve, I don't know.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_06: I I always thought that was if you want to talk about like Cordell Stewart's iconic signature game, I think that was it.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the regular season game for sure, yeah.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, the playoff game, not so much.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_06: No, no, and we'll talk about that.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_06: So so because Cordell and the Steelers had won that game, when the two teams meet for the AFC title, the Steelers are hosting it at Rear Rivers.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_06: And you know, uh that I I was fortunate to be at that game, and what I remember uh about being in the stadium that day is that um man, there was a lot of excitement.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_06: Like it was kind of like you know, w we had beaten this team earlier, we could beat them again, like we're going to the Super Bowl, and everybody was so pumped, and uh Denver got the ball first, and and everybody was still on their feet, and right off the bat, this happens.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_04: Many of the fans yet to take their seat on their feet second and ten.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_04: Elway comes the ball intercepted by LeBron Kirkland.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_04: Turnover on the second play of the game.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_06: And you can hear there, like the the the walls just like blow off the stadium.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Levon Kirkland was this mammoth linebacker that had a career year that year in '97.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_06: And he picks off Elway on the second play of the game, and everybody just goes crazy.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_06: And you're thinking, Super Bowl, here we come.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was awesome.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: And number 99, he was still one of my favorite stealers of all time, Lavon Kirkland.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Shame he never even I don't think he ever even got to play.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Did he get to play in Super Bowl 30?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was in Super Bowl 30.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he did.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: But he never he never got a Super Bowl ring.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: But he was really, really good.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, I don't know, what he if he was uh a hamburger under 275 pounds, I'd be lying.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean but the but he could run, man.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Being that big, he could run.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember him running with Ken Dilger, the tight end from the Colts.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: And he stayed with Shannon Sharp.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like Shannon Sharp, like, well, we'll talk about later in the game.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Shannon Sharp has to push off to get open, you know.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean it's he was really good.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: He had a really great year.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: He he did.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_06: And he's kind of new actually after that play, he's kind of neutralized in this game by Howard Griffith.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_06: Howard Griffith was the fullback that was kind of like the the open up the whole guy for Tyrrell Davis.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_06: And he he kind of blocks um Kirkland low a lot, which he kind of has to do because Kirkland's so huge.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_06: And and Griffith relays a story years later where he says Kirkland got really mad at him and he said, you know, why do you have to dive up my legs to block me?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_06: And Griffith said, Well, why do you have to be a 300-pound linebacker?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_06: So it's like touching.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um point taken.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_06: So um, so again, the Steelers kind of have the early momentum, and they actually take uh they have a 14-10 lead in the second quarter, and that's where the game really starts to turn.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Cordell throws uh an interception, it's a it's a long pass into the end zone, uh, and it's picked off in the end zone.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_06: And then in the final two minutes of the half, Elway leads the Broncos on two touchdown drives.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_06: Uh so that hurt because at the two-minute warning, the Steelers are up 14-10, and then at halftime it's 24-14 Denver.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_06: Like the game really turned on a dime in those minutes.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And there there were some pass interference calls that got them down the field, but you know, good good teams get those calls, I guess.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we won't go Seattle Seahawk on it.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_06: No, no, and they were touchy, but again, like you said, Steve, uh, you have to be able to overcome those.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_06: And you know, if you're if if it's even close to pass interference, that probably means you're you're kind of behind the eight ball in terms of catching the offense.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_06: So so so the Steelers are down ten.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_06: They definitely like the life kind of goes out of the stadium a little bit, but but they're only down ten and they have the whole second half to mount a comeback, but like it never happens.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_06: Um they they they mount a really long drive in the third quarter, they get down deep in Denver territory, and then Cordell just throws a terrible interception in the end zone.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_06: And and then after that, he can never really muster much.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_06: And and we talked in previous episodes about like that difference between good quarterbacks and great quarterbacks.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_06: And and I think for Cordell, you know, Cordell started two AFC championship games, this one and the uh the 2001 game against the Patriots.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_06: And people kind of remember him throwing interceptions and losing those games.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_06: I I never felt like Cordell lost those games.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_06: I felt like we we got down in both of those games, and then Cordell had it had ample time to lead us back, and then he threw interceptions.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_06: And I think that's you know, the difference between a good quarterback with Cordell was somebody that you know it you're down in a big game and you throw interceptions versus a great quarterback, you're down in a game, Larry Fitzgerald has just scored to go ahead touchdown in the Super Bowl, and you're able to drive the team down the field and win it, right?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, or Larry Fitzgerald scoring the touchdown in the first place.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: In Kurt Warner's case, you know, I would consider Kurt Werner a great super great quarterback.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: He's just been on the bad side, he's never had like teams with like a really great defense.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've always thought that about Kurt Warner.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: He's probably short two Super Bowl rings because he just played on some teams that maybe didn't have the greatest defense.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And like he did that too.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, under two minutes in the Super Bowl, I think Kurt Warner's thrown two touchdown passes, right?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_06: I think it's three because all three Super Bowls, he he did that to beat the Titans, and then the defense held.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then he did it against the Patriots, and he did it against the Steelers.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh who who goes one for three in that situation?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Brady's uh because look at Brady's the same thing, you know what I mean?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: And like Eli Manning, look at Eli Manning.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Eli Manning's done about the same thing, and he's you know, won both his Super Bowls.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I I don't know.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: I feel bad for Kurt Warner for that, but he's still he's still gonna he still made the Hall of Fame and he's he's a good guy.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: But like once again, to the point is like that's the difference between like Cordell Stewart, Jimmy Garoppolo, like Trent Dilfer, like you know, even like uh Mark Rippin, like it just just like Jeff Haas, Stettler, like even guys who have won Super Bowl, you know, they're just not quite at that level that these other guys are.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't mean they're bad quarterbacks, and maybe they just, you know, like I said, they were on a different team.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: It it's always, you know, it's always tough because it's such a team game, and it's it's hard to pinpoint at one player, I think, sometimes.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_06: I I think when you when you build your team with like that game manager, quarterback, and really good defense, that were like you said, there have been plenty of teams that have won the Super Bowl.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_06: You just named a a handful of examples.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_06: Plenty of teams that have won the Super Bowl with that formula, and and plenty of teams that have come really close.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, but I I think there's probably more teams that haven't won the Super Bowl in that scenario and and or haven't even advanced to the Super Bowl.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_06: And I think it's because the no matter how great your defense is, if if there's a great enough opposing quarterback, they'll get the lead.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_06: And and then if you're down, all of a sudden the game manager quarterback can't lead you back.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_06: And that's what happened with Courthouse Stewart in this game.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_06: He could not lead them back.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: At some point you gotta you gotta complete a pass, you know, at some point, you know, or maybe a couple of passes.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, Ben's done that.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, they you know the other guys haven't.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_06: And that Super Bowl against the Cardinals, that was a great legendary Steeler defense that year, but they but they gave up the lead in the final minutes of the game, and they still needed the great quarterback to win it for them.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_06: So that's that's where the Steelers are in this game.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_06: Um, Denver plays well in the second half.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Troy Davis gets going.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_06: He racks up over 100 yards.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_06: Like we said, Howard Griffith was really kind of an unsung hero for Denver in that game, leading the way for Davis.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's still that third and ten where uh Shannon Sharp pushed.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't know.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: He made a nice catch on Kirkland.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_06: But yeah, that's that's at the end of the game, the Steelers do get a late touchdown, and then they use all their timeouts, and they have Denver down to a third down.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_06: So Denver, if Denver converts, the game's over.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_06: If Denver doesn't convert, they punt back to the Steelers, and like you said, Shannon Sharp makes a catch there, and that's the ball game.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_06: I I just I don't know, Steve.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_06: I kinda I kind of felt like I people made a big deal about that for years, and like they still show it as like one of the great plays in Denver Bronco history that Shannon Sharp made that catch.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_06: Uh and they're and you know, that was a three-point game, so the Steelers would have just needed to drive for a field goal to send the game into overtime.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_06: But I kind of feel like if Denver punts there, I don't think.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think Cordell, yeah.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Cordell throws an interception or they go, they don't make a play on fourth down or something.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like something, yeah.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think Cordell had enough gas in the tank.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: You never know, but yeah, I I don't know.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you on that one.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the Broncos.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of a garbage time touchdown, probably, quite honestly.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_06: It it was.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_06: But I mean they they technically did st if they would have stopped them there, they would have gotten the ball back.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_06: No timeouts, but like still enough time to potentially do something, and and the sharp play just ended it right then and there.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_06: So the Broncos uh go on to defeat the Packers in the Super Bowl two weeks later.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_06: That gives the AFC their first Super Bowl title in ages, uh, but it also gives Elway his first Super Bowl title after you know so many years.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_06: That one was for John.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_06: That one was for John, yes.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_06: So uh definitely a big story and a good story there for Denver and for Elway.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but kind of a bitter loss for the Steelers.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_06: I you know, I that season, I'd love to do a whole episode on that 97 season because it's one of my favorite seasons.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_06: It was such a a wild season.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_06: The Steelers had some crazy games in there, and um I I just I really liked that team, and it felt like they really had a good chance there to do something, and it was really disappointing that they lost that that championship game at home.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, but that's the way it went.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_06: Our fun fact for this game, NBC aired that that game, and during halftime, uh for the first time ever, they had they aired long lost footage of the Immaculate Reception.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_06: So, so before uh before then, you anytime you saw the Immaculate Reception, it was always that NFL films replay with like Jack Fleming on the call.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_06: And you know, they they didn't have the tape of the TV broadcast of that game.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_06: And somebody in NBC that year found it, you know, I don't know, in a warehouse somewhere or something.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_06: And they actually aired that at halftime.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_06: So that was really cool um being able to see that play in in its TV form with Kirk Gowdy calling it for NBC.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_06: And it gave you some new angles and some things you'd never seen before.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_06: Maybe what I've done.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_06: I thought that was really interesting.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was in Bob Costus's basement.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: He was, you know.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: He he put it on his chair to sit on to raise him up so he could get on his computer or whatever.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_06: He just has like valuable footage of like NBC stuff.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_06: It's like Kennedy assassination news footage, uh Immaculate Reception, just you know, anything that's in the NBC archives.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_06: Um so that's that's 97.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the next time these two teams meet is in 2005, and it's also for the AFC Championship.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_06: This one's at Denver.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_06: Uh we we did our our trilogy on the 2005 Pittsburgh um championship season.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_06: So I'm I'm not gonna delve into this one too deeply because we really covered this game in depth in that in those episodes, so please go back and listen if you haven't.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_06: Those were really fun episodes and good episodes on that 2005 team.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_06: But just to just as a quick recap, uh the Steelers are the number six seed in the playoffs, but after a win at Cincinnati and a really shocking upset at Indianapolis, they find themselves headed to number two seed Denver for the AFC Championship game.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_06: And the the 2005 Broncos, you know, Elway's long gone by this point.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_06: They're no longer the team of Elway.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_06: They've kind of reverted back uh into this strong defense game manager mode.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_06: Like I said, we'd see that a bunch of times in the series.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_06: Uh they they had they had gone they'd cycled through a bunch of quarterbacks post-Lway.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_06: I think they drafted Brian Greasy and he didn't do well, and they had a couple other guys.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_06: And in 2005, um, they end up with Jake Plummer, who was a veteran quarterback, solid, um, and and they had this really good defense.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_06: And as Steve detailed in our previous episodes, they had a really good running game.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_06: So they were, to me, they were kind they were very similar to what the Steelers had been for years under Cower leading up to this point.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_06: And it was kind of ironic because they were they were like playing the Steelers role of hosting the championship game and having that game manager quarterback and and good defense.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_06: Um the Steelers, though, they've they've redefined themselves as well.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_06: And to me, the biggest play of this game will always be uh what happens right before halftime.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_06: So the Steelers are up 17-3, and Ike Taylor gets an interception.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_06: Steve talked about in our episode we did, he talked about how Ike held the ball like it was a Ming Voz, like he was afraid to drop it because Ike never held on to passes.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_06: So they get this interception right before halftime, and they're already up 17 to 3.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_06: And then they run this great play where um I I think it was an audible, Steve.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_06: Was that correct?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_06: Where Bettis scored that touchdown?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah, it was against a blitz like if you listen to the Tunch Oak and he's describing a blitz that Denver's running, and that was like their counter to it.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: Was I guess it was like you know, some sort of man coverage, and they knew if they could sneak Bettis up real quick through the offensive line, there would be nobody left to stop him.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess in that formation, for some reason, well, this is uh you're talking the play before the one where Bettis scores, but they call it back.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the play.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Is I guess Heinz Ward lined up on the tackle or got covered up by somebody else.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody lined up wrong you too many men line on this men on either too many men on the line of scrimmage or not enough men on the line of scrimmage, and they called the penalty for illegal formation.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: And like, you know, note to all football teams that like whine and cry about the officials, and this is like a perfect example.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like the Steelers did this this whole postseason, is like you know, they would they would something would go against them either you know on the field or just a bad circumstance, and they would overcome it, and this is a perfect example.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: So instead they just got their touchdown wiped off, taken off the board, and maybe they're just gonna settle for a for a field goal, which wouldn't be bad 20 to 3 going in the halftime, but uh Big Ben had uh other plans.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and and and so here's what happens next.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_06: Second down, 13, 15 seconds.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: Play action.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: Robles Berger.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: Saw the first out.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: Ball is caught.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: Hinesward.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_06: I was like, oh my god, we're gonna win the Super Bowl.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_06: Because it was so unsteeler-like.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was like, oh, you took our touch-in off the board.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, we'll just score another one.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, like the years of uh conservative play and Marty ball kind of, you know, uh not taking any chances, and now we had this quarterback that they weren't afraid to let him scramble and throw it into the end zone.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_06: And and I think, you know, when we did those 2005 episodes, we talked about like narratives that that we thought were unfair, like Seattle and their referees.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_06: I think one of the other narratives that people still think about that year was oh, the Steelers won that Super Bowl because they had a really good defense, and Ben was a a rookie quarterback that didn't play that well.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_06: And and it's true he did not play well in the Super Bowl, but that whole playoff leading up to the Super Bowl, they don't win any of those three games if it's not for Ben Rothesberger.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he was, yeah, he was money.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: You talk about big game, big player, and the difference.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why, you know, I mean you just look at the plays he made.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he tackled, he made a tackle on offense, you know, that saved their season.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, a quarterback does that.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I I just, you know, Ben Ben's a legend, he's going in the Hall of Fame, and you know, there's a probably a whole laundry list of reasons why.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: And there and you know, a lot of the reason I think Ben doesn't get the credit is some of it is he doesn't play in, you know, he's not like Peyton Manning, who was just this absolute legend coming out of college and then you know be became the superstar.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the off-the-field stuff is always held against him.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like he'll never they'll never invite him on, like he'll never be like the spokeman, spokesman for progressive ever.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, neither will Michael Michael neither will Michael Vick or Mike Vick or whatever, you know.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, but you know, no, that's that's a good point.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_06: And and I guess but I just think people remember Ben not doing much that year because of the Super Bowl, and he did have a bad Super Bowl, but but man, that that play it really ices the game.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it's a 24-7 lead at halftime.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you listen to the audio on the N the NFL film, the because you know, like we said before, like I ordered like the t-shirt hat and DVD as soon as the Super Bowl was over.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, um, he says as soon as I threw it, I thought it was intercepted.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: Ben thought it was gonna be picked off, actually.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if you watch the replay, the guy from Denver does kind of flash, but Ben just threw it so hard the ball got there too quick for him.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just you know, Ben, Ben was unbelievable.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: He did just he's a really good quarterback, and when you can run around and break down a defense and then fire a pass like that, he said it was game over, 24-7 for the Broncos at least.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_06: And I just, you know, I I had never really seen a quarterback again.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_06: We talked about us being kind of too young for the 70s teams.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_06: We had never really seen a quarterback that was capable of doing that.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_06: We'd always seen like the the guys we talked about, like the game managers, and so Ben Ben coming in, throwing that pass, that was the moment where I'm like, oh, we're gonna we're gonna win this thing.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_06: Uh and the Steelers do, they go on to win Super Bowl 40.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_06: And and the other thing I think about that game in 2005, again, you talk about the four playoff or the four postseason games that year.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_06: You had Cincinnati, that huge rivalry that year, and Carson Palmer's injury, the Indianapolis game had all the drama of the bettest fumble and the tackle, and then you had the Super Bowl.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_06: And I think, you know, of those four games, probably the Denver game is the one that people would remember the least.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, like, oh, no big deal, they beat Denver.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_06: But I mean, you said it earlier, Steve, it's a really hard place to win.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_06: And in fact, Denver had not lost a game at home that whole season.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: They had not lost an AFC championship game to that point.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I still think, if I'm not mistaken, this is still the only AFC championship game Denver's ever lost at home.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, and and fun another another fun thing that happened was um I really wanted to go to this game in Denver.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I was like, I I don't know, I didn't want to go on like Seat Hub or Call Scalper or whatever you did back then.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I got wind of uh I guess I only was on the Denver website, but the Denver fan club, the Denver Broncos fan club was giving away tickets to that game.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I signed up and became a member of the Denver Broncos fan club, of which I am still a proud member of the Denver Broncos fan club.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: That and I'm a I am a Taylor Swift fan club member too, because I had to buy Taylor Swift tickets a few years back for my stepdaughter.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: So Broncos and Taylor Swift.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm all in, baby.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: If Taylor Swift ever goes to the new mile high, maybe I can get in, you know, really uh complete the tri facto there.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's funny because I get emails every so often.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, the Denver, yeah, Denver does this or Denver.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I should unsubscribe to this.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, ah, why not?
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Just let it be.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, that's really funny.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_06: Well, my fun fact for this game is going to come pale in comparison to what you the story you just told.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_06: But my fun fact for this game, uh, so so we said, you know, Denver was a lot better than I think people remember that year.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_06: And in fact, the team that they had beaten to advance to the championship game was the Patriots, who at the time had won three of the last four Super Bowls.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_06: And uh Bill Belichick, uh, for whatever reason, I I don't know if he was just bitter about losing to Denver or what.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_06: He actually calls Bill Cower the week of the game to offer him intel on the Broncos.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: He said when they when they cross their arms, they're calling a running play.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know that, Bill?
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: Don't ask, I just know.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just coach's intuition.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um why I always thought this before the Rams, when the Rams played the Patriots, right?
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, wasn't there all these stories like he's buddy buddy with Sean McVay?
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would you talk to Bill Belichick before you play him in a game?
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: Why would you ever talk?
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like if I talk to Bill Belichick, if I ever like if somebody ever mistakenly gives me in charge of like an NFL offense, like God knows why they would.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I would just like the week before the Patriots, I would just totally mess with his head.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I like they literally tell him to play.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: They play, yeah, it's uh Red Wright 99.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, we're running that.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sam Rettigliano called it in from the grave.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: First play of the game, Bill.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: Be ready for it.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_06: I maybe he's just that charming that you can't help, you know, giving him information.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: And like, yeah, they shut his offense.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like they had one of the better, and they said, like, why what do you think he was doing, McFay?
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I don't think they didn't have a relationship prior to that.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just like what do you think?
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: Bill's just gathering information on you.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: He's just using you.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't fall for it.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_06: So uh that's a great win again.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_06: Uh um, we covered that in in a lot of depth in those other episodes.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the next time that these two teams meet is 2011 in the wild card playoffs.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_06: Uh this game is at Denver, and it's known by many as the Tim Tebow game.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_06: Uh in 2011, the Steelers are the defending AFC champions.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_06: And the the 2011 would be an interesting season to do an episode on, too, because I've always maintained that I've always thought the 2011 team was better than the 2010 team that made the Super Bowl.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_06: Like in 2010, they had a good season.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_06: I thought they got kind of fortunate in the playoffs facing Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez instead of like Brady and Manning.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_06: Um, because their their kryptonite all season was they couldn't beat good quarterbacks.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_06: And then they got into the Super Bowl against Aaron Rodgers and and you know fell apart.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_06: So uh 2011 they they go 12-4, and again, I really thought that team was better than the one the year before.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_06: They were actually able to stand up to the good teams and good quarterbacks.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_06: Uh however, there were two problems with that 2011 team.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_06: One is that they suffer a ton of injuries late in the season, really bad timing to get banged up.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_06: And they lose a key home game in the final seconds against Baltimore in November that uh gives the Ravens the division.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_06: So even though it's where Flacco throws the pass to the running back, like Gus there, yeah.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_06: I don't remember who it was too, but it was a touchdown pass with like eight seconds left.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that, yeah.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_06: And it was at Hinesfield, and they were down.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_06: It wasn't like tied, like it was to win the game.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_06: So um that you know, the Steelers are 12-4, but they have to be a wild card, which which sucks.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, usually 12-4 is good enough for a division title, but because they lose that game to Baltimore, Baltimore wins the division.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_06: So now the Steelers have to go on the road for the first round of the playoffs, and they don't get that bye week or any rest for their injured players.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_06: Um Denver is an eighth and eighth division winner.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_06: Uh they have a very interesting season.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_06: They they start one and four, they they look like they're just a crap team, but then they make a s a switch at quarterback to second-year player Tim Tebow.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Tebow uh was and and probably still is uh one of the most celebrated college quarterbacks ever.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_06: I I can't think of a whole bunch uh uh I can't think of too many college football players that had more accolades or attention or um you know were more well known than Tim Tebow when he was in Florida.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_06: But you know, coming into the NFL, a lot of people are not convinced that he has the talent to play quarterback in the pros.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_06: Denver takes a chance, they draft him in 2010, and now in 2011, being one and four, they hand over the reins to him, and what ensues is Tebow Mania.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Tebow wins six games in a row, and and those six games, there's a bunch of like nail biters uh games where they're like down by 10 with three minutes left and they come back and win.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_06: Uh games that go into overtime.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it it turns into a phenomenon.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_06: You know, he's people are um posting pictures of themselves on social media, Tebowing, like kneeling down, like Tebow did after he scored.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_06: So it's it's a whole thing, it's like you know, sweeping the country kind of a thing.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_06: Uh but Tebow does kind of cool off at the end of the season, and Denver actually is entering the playoffs on a three-game losing streak.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_06: Uh so like I said, uh the theme of you know, lucky to be there because of a bad division, the Steelers had had that a few times earlier in the series, and now Denver's eight and eight, but they get to host a playoff game uh because they won the division, and the Steelers are a wild card, even though the Steelers have four more wins than Denver does.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_06: Uh and and so that's you know, they're in the playoffs, and just like the Steelers in 89, even a quote-unquote bad playoff team can still do damage, and and especially when you're playing at home, like Steve, you talked about what a big advantage it is to play at Denver.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it really it actually that then the mile it really was more of a home advantage.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you have it right there.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's more to this home advantage than just you know sleeping in your own bed in thin air.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's actually another it affects the Steelers, I think.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and and I mean you want me to okay, I'll you want me to expand on okay go ahead.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: So so Denver ran basically the naval, the the triple option is what they ran.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: And having watched Pitt play the triple option in Navy, the whole key to the triple option, and the McKeesport freaking high school coaches told Dick Lebeau this is stopping the fullback, and you have to stop the fullback straight up.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: You can't like play hero ball, I call it.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: And there's two guys, and I predicted I before this game, I said the Steelers are gonna lose because they have two guys on that defense, and the third guy, the voice of reason I used to was not there.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: You have Troy Palomolo and James Harrison are ball chasers.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a ball chaser against this defense or this offense, you're gonna get exposed.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's the whole point of this offense is to nullify your everybody has to do your job.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: You have to do the position that you're playing, make the stop.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, and the problem was was Ryan Clark has a has a sickle cell anemia.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, he doesn't have as bad.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: His sister had it worse.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: I actually was reading about it.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's sicker, his sister died young because she had it worse, and it's a genetic disorder that's common among African Americans.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: And when you stress yourself out, the red the red blood cells sickle, which is it's very painful and can be deadly, can attack your organs.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: Ryan Clark had actually played in Denver earlier in his Steeler career in a regular season game and was out for a month.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like they had to get rid of half his spleen, I guess, because um it's something with the way the red blood cells, I don't know if that's where they're produ that isn't where they're produced, but there was something he was sick for like a month and couldn't play the rest of the year.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: And this and Ryan Clark, God bless him, he wanted to play so bad in this game.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: I remember somebody needs to stop in and save this man from himself, and it was just like and he did end up going to the game and running around before the warm-ups.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: They let him run, but they had to play a guy named Ryan Monday who was okay, but I just don't think he understood that Troy and Harrison are gonna chase the ball, and that's and that's what kind of happens if if you watch, well, we'll go through the game here.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_06: You get to I mean it's just that was that was a huge disadvantage.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_06: Like like you said, typically when you're playing on the road, it's like you said, you have like the the home team gets to be in their own beds, the home team has the crowd noise, the home team might even have a weather advantage, like if you're you know, like like if you're the Miami Dolphins playing in Buffalo or something, right?
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_06: But but in this game, I I it's such a weird thing because Ryan Clark was the leading tackler that year.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_06: Like you said, he was key to stopping this offense.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he could stay back.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like even if Troy did chase the ball, like you watch the game-winning play, watch what Ryan Monday does.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's the most I like it's still like as soon as I like it makes me want to like like grind like what are you doing?
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are it's the typical what are you ball chasing, what are you doing, stupidity.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_06: And and so and and it's one thing if Ryan Clark gets hurt and can't play the week before, but he's not injured.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_06: He's a hundred percent totally healthy, and they can't start one of their key defensive players.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I wouldn't say he's totally healthy.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is worse than like if he would have played, he could die.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_06: But I'm saying he didn't have he didn't like if they play this game at any other city in the United States.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, he's fine.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they played in San Diego.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_06: He's he's playing.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_06: He's playing.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_06: So that that was killer.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um, he's not the only guy injured.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Richard Menonhall was the starting running back that year.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_06: He had torn his ACL.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Ben had injured his ankle a few weeks earlier in a game against Cleveland.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_06: Um, he was clearly hobbled.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_06: He was still playing, but he was hobbled.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, Marquise Pouncey was out for this game.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_06: Nevertheless, the Steelers are still seven and a half point favorites because Denver's an eight and eight team with Tim Tebow at quarterback.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_06: So I think a lot of people still thought Steelers would win.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_06: Um, Denver comes out firing on offense.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, Tebow has two first half touchdown passes, and Denver actually Jumps out to a 20-6 lead at halftime.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and the the Steelers defense is giving up big plays.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the the the Broncos leading receiver that year was a guy named Eric Decker, and he had gotten hurt early in the game.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_06: I think Harrison hit him low.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_06: And so they had a second-year receiver named Demarius Thomas, who ends up being a really great player for them in future years.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_06: He has 109 yards in the first half alone, and that was significant because in 2011 the Steelers defense hadn't allowed a 100-yard receiver all season.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_06: And here Demarius Thomas has 109 yards in the first half.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_06: The Steelers are also kind of tight blowing chances.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_06: Um there's a drive late in the first half where Doug Legerski, who's who's only playing at center again because Pouncy's hurt, uh, snaps the ball way over Ben's head.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_06: Uh that that blew a scoring drive.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_06: So just things not going well for the Steelers.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_06: But they do come back in the second half.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Isaac Redman was the running back who was replacing Menon Hall.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_06: He has a huge game, 120 yards, 121 yards rushing.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_06: And then the defense kind of wakes up.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_06: They force a Willis McGahey fumble late.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_06: That leads to a Jericho Cottery touchdown reception to tie the game at 23 late in the fourth quarter.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_06: And then one thing I think a lot of people forget about this game, but I remember it really clearly.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the Steelers do get the ball back at the very end of regulation, and they actually have a first and ten on the Denver 45-yard line with 30 seconds left in the game.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_06: So literally one more first down, and they're in field goal range, and they win the game.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_06: And they had first and ten.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Ben, though, is sacked twice.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_06: Um, the offensive line was decimated by injuries, but Ben also held on to the ball forever because they were running this offense.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_06: Bruce Arians is the offensive coordinator, and they're running this offense that's these long developing plays.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_06: And that that offense, they had a lot of success with that offense, and they also had a lot of Ben getting killed and sacked in that offense.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_06: And after this game, I think um the Steelers management had just kind of had enough, and they didn't think that was sustainable long term.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, Ben at this point is in his eighth year, and they just don't think that him getting hit that much is sustainable, and they actually fire Arians after this game.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_06: And I kind of felt like that that last drive where they had first and ten on the 45 and they couldn't go forward, and like they couldn't even throw incomplete passes or anything.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_06: Like the Sacks just totally killed any chance they had to win it in regulation.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_06: And I think to me, I don't know if that's when Steelers brass kind of made that decision, but to me that was like the end of Bruce Arians.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Bruce has a bad habit of getting his quarterbacks killed.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_01: He did that in Arizona after that, too.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_01: He went through like four guys in one season.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_01: So Kevin Brady got right though.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_06: I mean But that's the offense he runs, and and if you watch, I remember being at Games back then.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_06: The the guy I sat next to at the games was a high school football coach, and he he knew more about the X's and O's than I did, and he would show me like watch the routes, like watch the receiver, watch the routes that they're running.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_06: They were these long developing routes.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_06: They weren't, you know, they it wasn't good for quick kind of get the ball out of there kind of offense.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_06: It really depended on your line being able to hold up.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_06: And then Ben was such an improviser, that was his style of play.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_06: He liked to run around, scramble, try to make plays, but that got him sacked and hit a ton.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_06: And I think first and ten at the Denver 45, what you needed there was like a five-yard pass, right?
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_06: Or a three-yard pass.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_06: Like just keep moving forward, get in field goal range.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_06: Even if you're attempting a 55-yard field goal at the end of regulation.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_06: It's Denver again, yeah.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_06: It's Denver, and at least you have a chance there.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_06: And again, they just went backwards instead of forward.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_06: So to me, that like I said, to me, that was the end of Arians.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_06: So the game goes into overtime.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the Steelers call tails on the coin toss, it's heads.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_06: And it this game's unique because it's the first game with the new overtime rules.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_06: So what had happened was it was it was a real tragedy in the NFL because in 2009, uh Brett Favre uh went into overtime in the NFC Championship game, uh, lost the coin toss, never got the ball, and the Saints went to the Super Bowl.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I felt uh ripped off, yeah.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, it was it was just the most unfair thing that happened ever.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_06: Brett Favre never even got a chance.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it really doesn't even matter that he's the one that sent the game into overtime with a terrible interception.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_06: It was just so unfair that Brett didn't get the ball.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_06: So we have to change all the roles.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, never mind that Tommy Maddox never got the ball in 2002 in that playoff game and probably about 30 other examples where that happened and nobody cared.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_06: But it happened to Brett Favre, so my God, we have to change these roles.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_06: So the new rule was that in playoff games only, and they they eventually adapted this role to the regular season too, but in 2011 it was playoff games only.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_06: Um if if you get the ball first and you kick a field goal, the other team gets to have the ball and have a chance to score.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_06: Uh however, if you score a touchdown on your first possession, then the game's over.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_06: And this was the first time that a game, a playoff game, went in overtime under those new rules.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_06: So um that ends up not really being relevant because on the first play of overtime, as many of you remember, Tebow hits Demarius Thomas on a slant pattern and he takes it 80 yards before the game-winning touchdown.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's just like a perfect example of like if you watch Ryan Monday, he takes like he bites, it's a play action and he bites on it, and it's like, what are you doing, Ryan Monday?
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's not your job.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a perfect example with that offense.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Your job, your job on that play was to stay back and make sure the slant pass, if it was caught, tackle him or defend the slant pass.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can see Ike is to the outside expecting safety help.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it just oh my goodness, it was just and then like I that's why I just knew like and they played the same the whole the same defense the whole game.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_01: They said that, and they said they dared Tebow to pass the ball to beat him, and I guess he was just there was a lot of lucky passes by him too.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like this, like ones that just like it was like 50-50 passes where the receiver went up and got the ball.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like he would that would that pass to that guy, it was only an eight-yard pass, but he put it on the money and in stride, and that's what you know kind of cost the stealers.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't like he wasn't zinging it around like like you think.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's 300 yards passing, but I mean I'm not gonna.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, he's not he's not exactly like surgically carving up the defense, but he's he's making the plays he needs to make.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_06: And and for him, you know, he he they bow out the next week against New England, and then he never starts an NFL game again.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_06: Uh but I think for him that's you know, that's kind of his one shining moment in the NFL that gets relived a lot.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_06: And and good for him.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, he's a he's a really good guy, Tim Tebow.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_06: So happy that he has that.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_06: And and I think, you know, going back to like narratives and how people remember this game, I think so many Steelers fans uh think back on this game like this massive tragedy, uh, upset.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_06: How could we ever lose to Tim Tebow?
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_06: It's like one of the worst moments in Steeler history.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_06: I I don't really think of it that way.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I don't I don't think it could be understated how decimated the Steelers were by injuries.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, we talked about Ryan Clark and how that was key.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_06: Um, you know, just just not having Ryan Clark alone was was big.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_06: But you know, we already said they didn't have Pouncy, they didn't have Mendenhall, Ben is hobbled.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_06: And then during the game, Max Starks, Casey Hampton, and Brett Keisel, three pretty significant players, all suffer season-ending injuries in the middle of that game.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I had forgot about that, and especially Casey Hampton and Keisel, because you've got to have those guys to be able to stop that.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, that little because like if you're if they're gonna get like five, six yards on that little fullback dive, that opens up the whole rest of their offense.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like if you can't stop that, Tebow's gonna start to pull that ball out, and now he's gonna get 10 yards, you know.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you can't like by stop, I mean, stop it just with the people you know not overcommitting.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And when you add extra people to stop that play, well, now you got Tebow running or pitching the ball, and now you're in trouble.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_06: So so had the Steelers survived that game, had they had they not gotten seen.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_06: They would have had to go to New England without all the guys we previously mentioned.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_06: And and in addition to that, Doug Legerski, who we, as we said, was the center subbing for um Pouncy and Chris Kiyamatu, the guard, they both would have been out the next week against New England, and Lamar Woodley would have been out against New England.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it would have been hopeless.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_06: It was almost losing that game was a bit of a mercy kill.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it really was, because they they were done.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_06: Like that that team was really good, but it ran out of guys.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah and and that was the the kind of the tragedy of that season, because like I said, to me that that was a better team than the one that made the Super Bowl the year before, but they ran out of guys and they just couldn't overcome it.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I it injuries are part of the game, and boy.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And too, like you knew Belichick, you know, the way Belichick coaches defense, he was, you know, he wasn't gonna, you know, his players weren't gonna be like chasing the ball.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that was I mean, what was that?
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_01: That was like 30 to nothing or something.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I that that was never even a game.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, it wasn't even close, yeah.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_06: Our fun fact for this game is it's the final ever game for Heinz Ward.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_06: He he retires after the season, so that was Heinz Ward's last ever game.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_06: What's the easy?
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Was that 2011?
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, 98 to 2011, a 13, what was that, 13 year career?
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's good for him.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and he had ended that season with exactly 1,000 career receptions.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he he was in Super Bowl 43, but he didn't do much, if I remember correctly, or what's yeah, he was in all three of those Super Bowls, and definitely Super Bowl 40 was his big, was his biggest game of those three.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_06: But a great career, and that was yeah, that was his last game.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_06: And and really by that point, he was not really effective anymore.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_06: Um so it was a good time.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_06: I think it was a good time.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_06: Good, good insight, you know, by him not trying to hang on and bounce around to another team for two more years.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_06: All right, the last game on our list and the eighth time that these two teams met in the postseason is in the 2015 divisional playoffs.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_06: This one's also at Denver.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_06: So that most of these games are at Denver.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_06: I think the only ones at Pittsburgh were the 78 and the 97, and then the rest of them were at Denver, uh, oddly enough.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_06: And and in this 2015 game, the the decimated by injuries theme will continue.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_06: So uh by 2015, both of these teams have very different rosters than the teams that had met four years earlier.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, for the Steelers, you know, most of their 2000-era Super Bowl players are now gone.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_06: We mentioned like Heinz Ward retiring, Troy retired, and Farrier and Keisel and Aaron Smith, like all those guys were kind of gone by 2015.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_06: And the Steelers, they they go through a couple of eight and eight seasons, but they do a pretty good job rebuilding.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, they win the division in 2014, and they built this really high-powered offense around Ben Rothesberger, who's still there.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, they have a good season.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_06: They're they're 10-6 in 2015, but it's a little bit of an uneven season.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_06: And they actually end up needing help from the Buffalo Bills in the final game of the season.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_06: The Bills upset the Jets, and that allows the Steelers to qualify as the number six seed in the playoffs.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_06: And in the first round, they they go to Cincinnati and win an absolutely insane game in the wild card round.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_06: Uh that I'm not even going to get into the detail there.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_06: That that would almost be enough for its own episode.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh was definitely involved.
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Gary Porter was involved, yes.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, but they win that game, and now they're headed to Denver for the divisional round.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_06: But this is very different than when they went there in 2011.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, because the the Steelers are a wild card just like they were in 2011, but they're not like this dominant 12-4 team.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_06: And the Broncos are no longer an 8-8 division winner.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_06: They're the number one seed in the whole conference.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, they have the league's best defense, and that's really what led them to that best record.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_06: And Vaughn Miller and all that, yeah.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_06: They were really Oh, yeah.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_06: DeMarcus Ware, and oh yeah, they had a great defense.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_06: And their quarterback is Peyton Manning, who, you know, his first couple of seasons in Denver, he'd been setting records.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I think he he, what was it, Steve?
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_06: 55 touchdown passes.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's still the most in NFL history now in one season.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_01: He broke he broke Brady's record, who had broke his record, who broke Merino's record.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's 55.
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_06: So Peyton Manning's.
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody's near near that.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_06: Peyton Manning was lighting the world on fire, but but by 2015, well, in 2015, really, he kind of falls off a cliff.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_06: Um, he he has a bunch of injuries and he loses his starting job to Brock Osweiler.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_06: And Brock Osweiler actually starts about half the games that year for Denver, including the game at Heinz Field in December, where they play the Steelers.
• 1:19:29
  SPEAKER_06: And in that game, uh the Steelers' offense really puts on a show against Denver's great defense.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_06: They rack up 34 points in the in a just a huge win at Heinz Field.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_06: And again, we talked about their offense.
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_06: They had these just really good um players.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_06: Antonio Brown, uh, I remember in that game, just had an amazing game.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, just it didn't matter that Denver had this great defense.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_06: Antonio Brown just carved them up.
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_06: But now that they're in the playoffs against each other, that that great offense that had beaten Denver in December is severely depleted.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_06: So Le'Veon Bell uh was the running back that year.
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_06: He's out for the season now.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_06: He he had been hurt early.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_06: He he got hurt in a week eight game against the Bengals, and I think that was Montez Berfecht who hit him and towards ACL.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_06: Uh but but the Steelers had planned for this because that's what happened the year before.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_06: The year before they lost Le'Veon Bell and they went into the playoffs with some guy they had to sign off the street to start at running back.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_06: So in 2015, they're like, no, we're not gonna let that happen again.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_06: And they go out and they sign D'Angelo Williams, who was a veteran running back who had played for Carolina.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_06: And when Bell gets hurt, I mean, I don't want to say they didn't miss a beat because D'Angelo Williams was not Le'Veon Bell, but D'Angelo Williams was really good that year.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_06: He was solid, yeah.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, he was solid.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_06: And so they remedied that problem.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_06: Like, okay, no big deal.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_06: Like, we lost Bell at Hurts, but it's not going to kill us.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_06: However, in the regular season finale against Cleveland, Williams gets hurt.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_06: So now the Steelers are without their top two running backs.
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_06: And then in the playoff game against Cincinnati, Burfect concusses A B.
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_06: He's out for the Denver game.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_06: So no Antonio Brown, which was killer.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_06: And Burfect, like Burfect just took out our whole team that year.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_06: Burfect also drives his knee into Ben's shoulder in that playoff game.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_06: And and Ben leaves, he's actually carted off the field.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_06: And then he like very heroically comes back at the at the end.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but he can barely throw the ball.
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_06: And he he's gonna play in this playoff game.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_06: But I don't know, Steve, what's he, maybe 60% at best for that Denver playoff game.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 1:21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And A B was definitely faking it because he winked at Pac-Man Jones after the first time.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's right.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_01: According to Dan Patrick.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I totally you know, because he he just wanted to, you know, take himself totally out of the AFC championship game.
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And this is when like all the concussion stuff was starting, they were trying to take the dirty hits out of the league.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean it definitely was a smart play by him, you know.
• 1:21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Faking a concussion so that he wouldn't be available the following week.
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I forgot about play against Denver.
• 1:22:04
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, Pac-Man said he was faking it and he would play, and then I think Pac-Man had to like apologize or something because Ace never apologized to this day, him or Dan Patrick.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_01: So okay.
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I guess he's still I guess he's still faking it.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh whatever.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, the the offense that had scored 34 points against Denver just a month earlier, you know, with D'Angelo, with A B, with a healthy Ben, now has none of those weapons heading into the divisional round against the league's number one defense.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_06: Um, also at this point, Manning is once again the starting quarterback.
• 1:22:36
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I think he regained that job in the in the regular season finale because Osweiler kind of called off and they said, okay, um, we're gonna go back to Manning.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_06: And it's funny because Denver, even though Peyton Manning's a quarterback, the Denver team that they play in 2015 is is similar to the team that they played in 2005.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_06: It's the the really strong defense, definitely a stronger defense than they had in 05.
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it was a really good defense, and a game manager at quarterback.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_06: And that that's that it was weird to think of Peyton Manning as a game manager, but at this point in his career, I mean, that's what he that's what he is.
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_06: So much like 1984 and 1989, the Steelers are huge underdogs going to Denver, and much like those years, they're they're up for the challenge.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, it's a game of really tough defense on both sides of the field.
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_06: It's a game where there's a lot of field goals.
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Martavis Bryant steps up in A B's absence.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_06: He has 194 all-purpose yards.
• 1:23:31
  SPEAKER_06: That guy was so talented.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_06: It's such a shame.
• 1:23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's not what happened.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're uh I think we're talking about the Washington quarterback Haskins.
• 1:23:42
  SPEAKER_01: He I kind of almost like file him under like that Jamarcus Russell like hat like guy just maybe not even that, but like a Joe Gillam, like just the guy that had it all, and just kind of like you know, let some you know demons off the field get the best of them, yeah.
• 1:23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Which is a shame.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_06: It is because I mean Bryant that game, he just he again, Denver has the best defense in the league, and they could not stop Martavis Bryant in that game.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_06: So with 10 minutes left in the game, the Steelers are clinging to a 13-12 lead.
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wasn't sure how they were leading at that point either.
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was basically like like Ben and like 10 college players at that point.
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, just willing them to victory.
• 1:24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_06: And they're in Denver territory, and they hand the ball off to Fitzgerald Toussaint.
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_06: So Fitzgerald Tussaint is like the 19th running back on the depth chart that they have to play because everybody else is hurt.
• 1:24:37
  SPEAKER_06: And he makes a nice run for a first down at the Denver 30-yard line.
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_06: So they're gonna have first and ten at the 30-yard line uh with under 10 minutes left, right?
• 1:24:48
  SPEAKER_06: So a field goal at a game, a 13-12 game, a field goal is huge.
• 1:24:52
  SPEAKER_06: And a touchdown, of course, would have been even huger.
• 1:24:55
  SPEAKER_06: And uh if nothing else, you're at least gonna run time off the clock.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_06: But at the very end of the run, Bradley Robey, who's the Denver cornerback, uh, he's being blocked by Darius Hayward Bay.
• 1:25:07
  SPEAKER_06: He gets off the block and he hits Tucson.
• 1:25:09
  SPEAKER_06: Tucson's kind of trying to cut back for a few extra yards.
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_06: He has not squared his shoulders, the ball comes out, and Denver recovers.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_06: Um, Demarcus Ware was the guy that recovered it.
• 1:25:20
  SPEAKER_06: And he he his story of that play was he he botched the play.
• 1:25:25
  SPEAKER_06: So he he thought it was gonna be a bootleg.
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_06: So he ran all the way to like where Ben would have like bootlegged to the side.
• 1:25:33
  SPEAKER_06: So he's standing way away from the play because uh he thought it was gonna be a bootleg and it wasn't.
• 1:25:38
  SPEAKER_06: And when the ball pops out, it just happens to land right at his feet and he falls on it.
• 1:25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was just shame because I never blamed Tucson for that fumble.
• 1:25:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like a weird like didn't he get kicked or something?
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I thought he got hit like it was just it wasn't like the defense like made a great play.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like the guy was spun around while being blocked and he just hit hit the ball.
• 1:25:59
  SPEAKER_01: It was just it was very unfortunate.
• 1:26:01
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't it wasn't anything like bad or you know, just just unlucky, I think, more than anything.
• 1:26:07
  SPEAKER_06: It it was it was like a very split second thing, and I think Roby, because he was getting blocked, I think his only chance was I'm gonna try to try to hit the ball instead of I I don't think he's he wasn't even trying to tell you he just was spinning around, if I remember.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it just he just happened to get the ball and it and like he had it held, or he just he just hit the ball, and it just I don't know.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_01: It did I just one of those things, it happens.
• 1:26:34
  SPEAKER_06: It is.
• 1:26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_06: So Manning comes back, he leads the Broncos down the field for the game-winning touchdown.
• 1:26:39
  SPEAKER_06: Like we said, he was kind of the game manager at this point, but he's still Peyton Manning.
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_06: And when when you give him the ball back on a turnover, he's still capable of leading the team downfield.
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_06: They score a touchdown, and uh the Stewart's aren't able to come back after that.
• 1:26:54
  SPEAKER_06: So the Broncos win the game.
• 1:26:56
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Ben has a heroic performance, uh 339 yards passing, playing with like no shoulder and all of his best weapons hurt.
• 1:27:05
  SPEAKER_06: Um and Manning has a very paltry 74 passer rating in this game.
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_06: Like Peyton Manning does not play a good game, but he but you know he comes through for the Broncos when it mattered most, when they needed when they when the defense got him a turnover and they needed him to drive down the field to win the game, he does it.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_06: And that's kind of the theme he keeps going all the way to Super Bowl fifty, where that really good Denver defense shuts down Carolina and he game manages them to their third championship.
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Who'd they play in the AFC championship game that year?
• 1:27:36
  SPEAKER_06: I don't New England.
• 1:27:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was a new I that's what I thought.
• 1:27:39
  SPEAKER_06: I thought it's it's always if if you ever wonder who was the other team in the AFC championship game and you guess New England, it's probably New England.
• 1:27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Over the last 20 years.
• 1:27:48
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:27:48
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:27:49
  SPEAKER_06: Because they I I know they played in I from 2011 to 2019, they were in every single AFC championship game, and then they were in a bunch before that, too.
• 1:27:58
  SPEAKER_06: So, like I said, if you guess New.
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_06: Nice.
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_06: Um so that game you know that that game was that game hurt because the Stewards had no business winning that game.
• 1:28:11
  SPEAKER_06: Like Denver's defense was too good.
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_06: We had nobody left.
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_06: Um it was at Denver.
• 1:28:17
  SPEAKER_06: And I think if we lose that game 28-3, fine.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_06: Like it is what it is.
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_06: But like we had it.
• 1:28:24
  SPEAKER_06: We had first down on the Denver 30 with 10 minutes left in the lead.
• 1:28:28
  SPEAKER_06: And and I really I I do feel bad.
• 1:28:31
  SPEAKER_06: You know, like you said, Steve, I I don't I really don't blame Tucson either.
• 1:28:34
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, not only was it kind of a fluke play, but also, I mean, he's the he's you're putting him in a situation where the whole season is on the line.
• 1:28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he's a special teamer, probably.
• 1:28:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he that's gonna be his role, if any, you know, and he just he dad, you know, they needed somebody.
• 1:28:51
  SPEAKER_06: And and he was a good story.
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_06: He he grew up in Youngstown, he had this really rough upbringing.
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_06: Uh his father was arrested uh at one of his high school games for stabbing someone.
• 1:29:01
  SPEAKER_06: So that gives you any idea of what his home life was like.
• 1:29:04
  SPEAKER_06: And and he got a scholarship to Michigan, but he got suspended because he he got a DUI, and he ends up going undrafted in the NFL and he bounces around to practice squad.
• 1:29:13
  SPEAKER_06: And you know, now here he is starting a divisional playoff game for the Steelers, and and up to that point, he actually was having a pretty good game, and he actually had the game's only touchdown.
• 1:29:23
  SPEAKER_06: So it was just a shame.
• 1:29:25
  SPEAKER_06: It was sad for him, and it was a bummer for the team.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_06: I don't know that they could have done much after that.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, A B would have came back, um, you know, he may still be faking it against uh yeah.
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess he would have against New England still.
• 1:29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I guess the uh the con would have been off by that point.
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean you you have to keep the ruse going the whole time.
• 1:29:47
  SPEAKER_06: So I don't know how far that team gets, but it's just like, man, they had it.
• 1:29:51
  SPEAKER_06: They actually had it and they just couldn't couldn't close it off.
• 1:29:54
  SPEAKER_06: Uh our fun fact for that game, uh Denver, like we said, goes to the Super Bowl.
• 1:29:59
  SPEAKER_06: That's their eighth trip to the Super Bowl.
• 1:30:01
  SPEAKER_06: And at the time, uh that matches the Steelers.
• 1:30:05
  SPEAKER_06: Um both teams had been to the Super Bowl eight times.
• 1:30:08
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the Steelers, of course, have six wins to Denver's three, uh, but still, it just kind of shows you how dominant those two teams have been over the years in the conference.
• 1:30:17
  SPEAKER_06: And, you know, not surprising that they've played each other so many times with both being uh so dominant over the over the years and over the decades.
• 1:30:25
  SPEAKER_06: Both two really consistently good franchises, well-run franchises.
• 1:30:30
  SPEAKER_06: So that's the eight playoff games.
• 1:30:33
  SPEAKER_06: And one more one more thing about that.
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_01: I remember a story D'Angelo Williams told about this game that that Tomlin like literally like cried after like he was so upset and he blamed himself.
• 1:30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Tomlin blamed himself for losing this game to Denver.
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean it's just it and Williams like Williams speaks very highly.
• 1:30:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a lot of people speak highly, but obviously Williams just thought he never heard a coach take such responsibility for that.
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_06: But in addition to the story, yeah, and I don't know that I blame Tomlin for that one.
• 1:31:04
  SPEAKER_06: Again, they they were missing too many guys and similar to that that other playoff game in 2011.
• 1:31:11
  SPEAKER_06: So so I guess I'll wrap up by asking the question.
• 1:31:14
  SPEAKER_06: You know, we just heard eight eight really memorable playoff games, eight huge games with with a lot on the line spanning you know from the mid-70s to the to the mid-2010s.
• 1:31:27
  SPEAKER_06: So is Steelers Broncos a rivalry, Steve?
• 1:31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I don't know.
• 1:31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh what I mean I think you gotta play everybody every year for it to be a rivalry.
• 1:31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what it this is missing.
• 1:31:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's definitely elements of the rivalry there, but I mean I don't think Denver fans would consider us a rival.
• 1:31:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean if you asked the Denver fan who's your biggest rival, they're gonna say Kansas City or Oakland or well, Vegas now, you know, or you know whatever.
• 1:31:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're not gonna say the Steelers, you know.
• 1:32:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if you asked most Steelers fans, they probably, like you said, play Baltimore or Cleveland.
• 1:32:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I I just I think it and it's a very storied, like I don't know, history.
• 1:32:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of history there, but maybe just not not because if they were in the same division, then I would call it a rivalry, but because they don't play each other every year, I would say that's why they it isn't a rivalry, at least in my mind.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I I think I would agree with that.
• 1:32:32
  SPEAKER_06: Um I I would say that you I think you can have a rivalry with a team outside your division, but it has to be a bunch of big games against each other in like a tight time frame.
• 1:32:41
  SPEAKER_06: So like we talked about the Raiders in the 70s, like they did not play in the same division as the Steelers, but that was definitely a rivalry because they played each other in the playoffs uh five years in a row.
• 1:32:51
  SPEAKER_06: So that that's that's you can have a rivalry in that case, and I think these two teams, we talked about like like so much success over the span of five decades, but they didn't have a lot of matchups like all in the same tight time frame that was spread out.
• 1:33:07
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, I think I think not being in the same division, not having a bunch of games in the same era against each other, I don't I and I think you're right that Denver fans would say the same thing.
• 1:33:16
  SPEAKER_06: They're not gonna call us a rival, but I still think there was I think the I think it's still a significant you know series in the NFL.
• 1:33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah versus Broncos.
• 1:33:26
  SPEAKER_01: You could almost well, see now I mean uh in the Miami in the 70s and 80s like would be very similar, probably.
• 1:33:34
  SPEAKER_01: There were some big playoff games, so but recently, when's the last time?
• 1:33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean we made them the playoff a couple years ago, Miami, but there really hasn't been, you know.
• 1:33:46
  SPEAKER_01: I would definitely say Denver outside of like Baltimore or Cleveland, like or any divisional, like Denver's like gotta be right there.
• 1:33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like Denver and New England, like right there, like you don't ever think because New England, I guess, just had so much success against oh Denver has too.
• 1:34:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I don't know.
• 1:34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I I guess they just think 'cause New England, just because they've won so much war and you know stopped us in the process a couple times.
• 1:34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that 2004 AFC Championship game is probably a lot bigger than a lot of these games, you know?
• 1:34:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't really have that kind of game against Denver.
• 1:34:27
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean and like you said about New England, I think the reason you think of New England is because uh we play them a lot of times with a lot on the line.
• 1:34:35
  SPEAKER_06: You know, we we played them in two playoff games in the late 90s and then the three championship games in the Brady Belicek era.
• 1:34:42
  SPEAKER_06: So uh that's why you think of New England.
• 1:34:44
  SPEAKER_06: That's the team you don't play every year, but you think of when you played them, you play them with a lot on the line.
• 1:34:49
  SPEAKER_06: And I think you did the same thing with Denver, but again, it wasn't you know, you even talk about like even like like 2011 and 2015 were only four years apart, but the the Tim Tebow team in 2011 was a completely different team than the Peyton Manning team of 2015, right?
• 1:35:03
  SPEAKER_06: So in the take five.
• 1:35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Tim Tebow definitely uh convinced John Elway to get Peyton Manning.
• 1:35:12
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:35:12
  SPEAKER_06: And and and so you didn't have a lot of games in the same era.
• 1:35:15
  SPEAKER_06: You you you know, Ben played in three of them, Elway played in three of them, but they're I think they're spaced far enough apart where you just you never think of them as a traditional rival.
• 1:35:25
  SPEAKER_06: But I still think, again, eight playoff games is nothing to sneeze at.
• 1:35:29
  SPEAKER_06: And and I think it's it's just worth remembering.
• 1:35:32
  SPEAKER_06: And I think it's an interesting matchup that again a lot of Seoris fans and to your point Broncos fans probably don't think about, but there's been a lot of big games over the years coming, maybe in the future.
• 1:35:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm jealous.
• 1:35:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I wish Heinz Field was like had the record that they have at home.
• 1:35:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're uh that's unreal.
• 1:35:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I you can almost like remember the lot when you can remember the times the Denvers lost at home in the playoffs more than their wins, that's that shows how good they are.
• 1:36:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's a tough place to play.
• 1:36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Especially in the playoffs.
• 1:36:10
  SPEAKER_06: I mean you know they've they've had a better home playoff record than us.
• 1:36:14
  SPEAKER_06: Um we've had a better Super Bowl record than them.
• 1:36:18
  SPEAKER_06: Um so I think I think Denver did really well getting to the Super Bowl, but then maybe not so well historically in the Super Bowl.
• 1:36:25
  SPEAKER_06: Like you said, a lot of that was during that era where the NFC was just so much stronger, so maybe we can forgive that.
• 1:36:31
  SPEAKER_06: But uh yeah, I think that's again, both teams a lot of success.
• 1:36:36
  SPEAKER_06: Both teams good ownership.
• 1:36:38
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and consistently you don't see either of those teams really be super bad for super long.
• 1:36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Denver's the bowl Denver kind of changed like they didn't it's still the Bolins, but it's like his daughter, I think.
• 1:36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Pat Bolins' daughter now is running the team or something like that.
• 1:36:58
  SPEAKER_01: So but Pat Bolins, I just remember him and his bid, like uh what was that, like that big fur coat he used to wear on the sidelines?
• 1:37:06
  SPEAKER_01: But uh kudos to them.
• 1:37:08
  SPEAKER_01: They got three Super Bowls and one of the strongest AFC teams, you know, original AFC teams.
• 1:37:15
  SPEAKER_06: Alright, folks, thank you so much for listening.
• 1:37:18
  SPEAKER_06: Um please check us out on the web or on Twitter or on Facebook.
• 1:37:21
  SPEAKER_06: All those links are in the show description.
• 1:37:24
  SPEAKER_06: And uh please leave us a uh review if you feel led to do so.
• 1:37:30
  SPEAKER_06: Catch you next time.
• 1:37:36
  SPEAKER_04: Aww, the Denver Broncos! I think owning the Denver Broncos is pretty good.
• 1:37:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:42
  SPEAKER_04: Well, explain to me why it isn't.
• 1:37:45
  SPEAKER_04: You just don't understand football, Marge.