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Transcript

We Love The Arena · The Reformatory

0:00
[SPEAKER_06]: What do you got for me?
0:02
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do
0:32
[SPEAKER_06]: But as I'm not for me, we're gonna add the benediction right there, that was so good.
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going on everyone and welcome to the reformatory of the podcast for the local church and by the local church and we are your local churchman.
0:43
[SPEAKER_01]: My name is Josh and I'm here as always with the captain, Jack Barry Rockin, the Pac-Dum hat.
0:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Lookin' good, remin' it, man.
0:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, okay, got still living off that conference high, man.
0:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, pretty much pretty much living off of Living off a man at this point.
1:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, yeah, it was good.
1:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a good time.
1:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a really fun time.
1:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a fun time.
1:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It was great.
1:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
1:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Now definitely we're gonna have to schedule I mean, that's gonna have to be I think a yearly thing like that.
1:17
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a lot of fun.
1:18
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a great fellowship.
1:23
[SPEAKER_01]: The Saints at Omaha Bible, their hospitality, the way that they, another level, do.
1:30
[SPEAKER_01]: The way that they took care of us was next level.
1:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a shout out the entirety of Omaha Bible Church, those that served and took care of those that came in.
1:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we got a shout out Patrick, we got a shout out Jordan Robin, dude that is coordinating all the rooms and she the real MVP, she the real MVP, Robin was awesome, awesome, fantastic stuff.
2:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so much fun, such a great time, and we got to go next year, we got to make it happen.
2:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to see an even bigger reformatory
2:11
[SPEAKER_01]: contingency is that is that the right word a reformatory contingency there sure I'm just going to say Cohort if you will Twenty twenty seven first week of October On sanctification that's going to be that's going to be bananas.
2:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
2:29
[SPEAKER_01]: If covenant theology didn't ruffle feathers
2:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sanctification is, you know, if, if, if, if, if, if covenant theology was was the left hook, then sanctification is the upper cut, right?
2:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not, you're not even seeing a comment.
2:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's going to be a great time already looking forward to it.
2:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be a lot of fun.
2:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, make sure to go watch on YouTube, the little, uh, Pactum live live from the
2:59
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... and uh... got to talk to some of the folks at uh... at uh... at all mobile as well and that was a lot of fun but jack it's reformation month uh... weren't we written the middle of it man we're reveling our defamation already already punch the popes team in the face not out the white sox yeah you know face white sox it was already it was it was good two the alc yes yeah
3:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no 100% 100% you guys you guys did well jack jack texted me and he goes he goes dude in pure Reformation fashion.
3:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We we we we took down the Pope's team and I texted him.
3:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I went through our I threw our reject the paper See shirt and I put it through a eye and I just threw a god
3:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I should have, I should have, I should have, but, you know, if it with the whole, we reject the papacy, but anyway, Jack, you guys, you guys did well and congratulations on your victory and good luck in the championship rounds, my friend.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, Jack, it's time, it's time for us, it's time that we get down to business, talk about what we're going to talk about, but before we do, it's time for everyone's favorite segment, don't forget to eat your instant grams.
4:33
[SPEAKER_01]: This is, don't forget to eat your Instagrams and Remarkets, it's not heresy.
4:36
[SPEAKER_01]: If you believe it hard enough, that is how it works these days.
4:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Jack, sometimes a pastor will do an illustration that just leaves me with the assumption.
4:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Right or wrong, though it may be.
4:49
[SPEAKER_01]: that he really does not care about the people like that he's leading the people that he's wanting to to to help.
5:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's clips like this that Rian reinforce this.
5:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just say Jack, let's I'm going to paint a picture, right?
5:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You are, well, let's let's take a familiar picture.
5:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a deacon at your church.
5:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
5:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You're deacon at your church and you have been tasked with making sure that the building is good and ready for people to worship in its clean.
5:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
5:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything's vacuumed.
5:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything's great.
5:22
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's your job.
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You do it really well.
5:25
[SPEAKER_01]: You come into service and see your pastor doing this for a sermon illustration.
5:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, they coffee's dead.
5:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll do it all day.
5:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Back down.
5:35
[SPEAKER_03]: This is like this.
5:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And then... Come on, bro.
5:43
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not sweet.
5:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So for our audio only listeners, what I just showed Jack was a pastor used in some sort of sermon illustration.
5:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't imagine what it would be.
5:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Just straight porn out coffee all over the he has it he has a coffee maker up on stage and he's and he's pouring hot coffee onto the church onto the sanctuary carpet and and it's a puddle like he has a river of coffee flowing down the sanctuary carpet.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then he like puts a little cup underneath it and then like sends the cup coffee flying and and yeah, so You know, Jan, there's nothing that thinking like all right.
6:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all right.
6:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to find a new church.
6:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I got I got I got I got I got a number guy.
6:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, number guy.
6:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I got find a new church All right, last one we got here Jack sometimes these ceremonial illustrations and here's the thing there's something about sermon illustrations
6:40
[SPEAKER_01]: that make their way around the big mega churches, whether it's the infactuation right now with ladders, like that's a big thing.
6:48
[SPEAKER_01]: People driving sports cars on to state, and Ed Young had a sports car.
6:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's this one.
6:54
[SPEAKER_01]: There's this one that's, it's tried and true.
6:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Paster's faking getting arrested on stage.
7:02
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't do it on purpose.
7:04
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't, you got the wrong guy, I just said no.
7:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Officer, officer, officer, officer, officer, officer.
7:10
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't do it, officer, officer, officer.
7:15
[SPEAKER_05]: You got the wrong guy.
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: The music starts.
7:18
[SPEAKER_05]: And notice because I won't submit.
7:22
[SPEAKER_05]: what?
7:23
[SPEAKER_05]: I resist a rest.
7:25
[SPEAKER_05]: And guess what?
7:27
[SPEAKER_05]: Because I resist a rest and I want some answer the officer, just what my charges just went up.
7:35
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you get the old lady whale?
7:37
[SPEAKER_05]: I resisted a rest.
7:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So, here's the thing.
7:42
[SPEAKER_01]: What is going on?
7:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I want the sample side.
7:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Why?
7:46
[SPEAKER_01]: The sinful side.
7:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
7:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe some of our listeners will understand.
7:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Whenever I see this, like, there's nothing I want more in that moment for that cops muscle memory to kick in and he pulls the taser out and absolutely rise that past just cooks his bacon dude like something something clicks and you see the eyes glaze or dude you see the eyes glaze over on the
8:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes to work and that taser comes out and you really get the full effect of the illustration again Guys stop doing this if you're gonna I'm not against illustrations in in in in sermons, but if you're gonna do it like be original stop stop like chat GP team your your your your your illustrations and that's what all the mega churches are doing right now
8:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, that's what we got.
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Jack, man.
8:44
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the instant grams, uh, heresy, unless you think it's not because that's how it works.
8:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Jack, we're going to get into our topic today.
8:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about the importance.
8:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And here's the thing.
8:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's here's something that I came away with.
9:00
[SPEAKER_01]: from the Pactum Conference.
9:02
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of the things that's been circulating around my head.
9:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That I came away with thinking about the value of things like that conference that we went to.
9:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm going to use this as an example.
9:20
[SPEAKER_01]: JV Fesco.
9:23
[SPEAKER_01]: wrote a counseling book.
9:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the book that launched a thousand shifts.
9:28
[SPEAKER_01]: On particularly counseling, it's the foundational foundations of counseling, right?
9:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And that particular book, if you guys at all follow the biblical counseling trends and things like that, no reason really why you would.
9:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I do because that's my background.
9:46
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I enjoy.
9:46
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of disagreement.
9:49
[SPEAKER_01]: over J.V.
9:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Fesco's book, particularly on his statements regarding the use of, I think, what we would call natural law, right, or what was the phrase he used.
10:07
[SPEAKER_01]: God's two books, his word, and then the book of life, I honestly can't remember.
10:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd have to go back.
10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, basically what he was describing is utilization within counseling of special revelation, general revelation, things that God has given us to
10:30
[SPEAKER_01]: The soul and things that God has given us through his common grace that help them in the body, right?
10:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, what constitutes soul versus body is a debate that I think is going to rage on into eternity until we all enter into heaven and see, you know, what the Lord wants us to see.
10:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But here's my point for bringing all this up.
10:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I guarantee you that there are things.
10:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I sat in J.V.
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Fescos, in his lecture that he did on the Theological Foundations for Christian Counseling, and I'll be honest.
11:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I came away with that from that encouraged.
11:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I know for a fact that there's going to be things that JV and I don't agree with in terms of how we go about applying the biblical principles and scripture as they pertain to counseling, right?
11:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
11:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But the things that he had to say about God's sovereignty in his word,
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[SPEAKER_01]: utilizing his word correctly.
11:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Also understanding that God gives common grace, the common grace is a thing that we can know and observe things in his creation that help inform our counseling.
11:43
[SPEAKER_01]: All of those obviously under the heading of his word as as the ultimate authority.
11:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I came away from his talk actually extremely encouraged and something that struck me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: was this.
11:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted a chance to talk to him.
11:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have the chance, Lord willing, maybe next year.
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Jack, I am convinced that so much 99 percent.
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: of these arguments and and scuffles and theological schisms that we see, but not just in Christianity, let's bring it down to reformed Baptists, right?
12:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Because obviously, there are things, you know, arguments in Christianity, you know, what would be constituted Christianity?
12:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of course you have to draw lines, right?
12:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
12:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's bring it down to the world that you and I, you know, right in, right, reform Baptist 1689 confessional world.
12:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
12:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of schisms.
12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are a lot of arguments.
12:52
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of kerfothels, a lot of things being said online.
12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of articles being written, a lot of podcasts being produced.
12:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of, uh,
13:04
[SPEAKER_01]: a lot of statements being made and responses to those statements being made and responses to those responses of statements being made, some better than others.
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And something that I found, Jack, is I know for a fact there are things that I disagree with theologically with all of those speakers at the Pactum Conference.
13:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
13:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
13:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Me and the good Dr. Clark.
13:31
[SPEAKER_01]: disagree on a lot of things theologically.
13:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, right.
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: He has, you know, on, you know, we've got, we've gone around, right?
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, yes.
13:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
13:44
[SPEAKER_01]: The good doctor would not consider me to be reformed, right?
13:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've gone around with that.
13:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And those conversations and those interactions online can seem so big, so fierce and so frustrating.
14:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But I will tell you, because Jack was there.
14:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I had the opportunity to sit next to Dr. Clark and have lunch with him after the conference.
14:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
14:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: He is a lovely man.
14:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I thoroughly enjoyed my time with him.
14:20
[SPEAKER_01]: We even talked about things that I know we disagree with.
14:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I had such an enjoyable time sitting with this man that previously all I had known with his online, like, you know, the shenanigans he gets to online, right?
14:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And if that's all that you're willing to allow to, you know, form your opinion of a person, it's going to be very one-sided.
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
14:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I was able to sit with Dr. Clark.
14:52
[SPEAKER_01]: and have a wonderful time with him.
14:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was very encouraged, and he would probably hate even here in this, but he's a big softie.
15:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a big softie.
15:03
[SPEAKER_01]: He's good dude, extremely intelligent, and he'll tell you you're not reformed if you're about it.
15:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.
15:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was one of the highlights of the trip, getting to sit with him, who has studied more and forgotten more about reform theology than I'll probably ever know.
15:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was it was such pleasure get just getting to know this man and Jack.
15:25
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my whole point and I'll throw it over to you because I'm rambling
15:28
[SPEAKER_01]: We need more of that.
15:30
[SPEAKER_01]: We need more of these conversations, these debates, these responses, and back and forth, we need more of them bare minimum face to face where we can see a tone, excuse me, see facial expressions, hear tone, observe body language, right?
15:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like at minimum,
15:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We should have more of these, where we can see each other, best case scenario, we get together.
15:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And we actually hammer some of these things out and discuss these things in a way that requires us to practice civility and Christian virtue.
16:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think what I appreciated the most about the Pactum Conference was It was this saying that Pat let off with where he goes man, Baptist and Presbyterians living together What would they think?
16:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, what is yeah?
16:26
[SPEAKER_02]: We had we had three four
16:31
[SPEAKER_02]: What you would call truly reformed guys and then the rest of us were the lowly, you know, particular 1689ers, you know, yeah, right and it's just like I don't know it felt like.
16:46
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a agreed upon culture to where you can rise, you can rise each other, but don't take too far like this is this is a place where like you come together for unity, I think.
17:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if we like, here's my thought.
17:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we like the arena more than we like unity.
17:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we like to, I mean, here's my, and that's, and my take on it is because,
17:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe this is just the young restless reform movement still crouching its head in reform culture.
17:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And Mars Hill, it was very much you had to assert your dominance in order to show that like you were a leader.
17:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
17:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So you had to compete with other guys, you had to do all this other stuff, and it was very much competitive cutthroat-ish time culture.
17:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we still want that and we can't let it go because deep down inside like somehow some way we want to quote unquote own the lips you know we want to own somebody we want to you know throw it down and own them versus it's harder to live in unity.
18:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's harder, it's harder sometimes to, well, to me, it didn't seem that hard to hold my tongue about, you know, infant baptism around the presby guys.
18:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, you know, you know, you know what, you're going down if you go down that time, right?
18:30
[SPEAKER_02]: You could throw a, you could love a couple bombs here and there or, you know, you could do kind of what I did with Dr. Fesco and just really say, you know, hey, you know, since you're on, since you've brought up church history a couple of times like what books would you recommend on this?
18:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Just lean into their strengths, right?
18:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
18:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Lean into their strengths.
18:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Lean into how best they are equipping the saints from ministry.
18:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though there could be Quadonco error, you know.
19:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I just think we want the arena more sometimes than we want unity.
19:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I don't.
19:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the only way that we're going to get past that,
19:14
[SPEAKER_02]: is have the experience like you and I had where you have a in person conference, you know, it could be anything to be quite honest, I'm not saying I'm just letting it into a conference, but, you know, maybe, you know, you do it to where, hey, maybe 2028, the Pactum Conference is on Unity.
19:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
19:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe maybe not.
19:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you start to have those questions.
19:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, and pet and pending pet.
19:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, that's right.
19:47
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
19:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
19:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
19:48
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just, I think, yeah, I think that will obviously like our algorithms run off of our hatred.
19:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's be honest about this.
19:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
19:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Our algorithms are going to run off of the hatred.
20:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And let me distinguish this.
20:03
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a difference between hatred of your brother.
20:06
[SPEAKER_02]: and absolutely critiquing, like absolute ridiculousness.
20:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I shot ridiculous, absolutely, the stuff that Dale Partridge talks about in, like the fact that he won't let his daughter date somebody who is not white.
20:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
20:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, that is completely off the reservation.
20:31
[SPEAKER_02]: That needs to do the most in the fun of, right?
20:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
20:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Versus a, I think, reformed in-house debate, right?
20:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Where you're talking about maybe the doctrines of grace and how they're worked out and how they're worked out through maybe being a particular
20:54
[SPEAKER_02]: or some other kind of branch off of there thus far.
20:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think there's just or just even like
21:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I think what you and I experienced to is just like respecting here elders, you know, like I think I think both of us come from pretty traditional like I don't come from a Christian family, but I came from a very traditional family in the sense that like you respect people who are older than you sure right.
21:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not going to like come up to doctor Clark and just like razz him right first that like that's just not what I'm going to do like sure I would rather.
21:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why are we seeking the arena more than we're seeking the olive branch?
21:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it just goes back to...
21:41
[SPEAKER_02]: there's a deep part of us that wants to be right and wants to see our rightness basically be elevated among somebody's quote unquote wrongness.
21:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But sure.
21:53
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I agree with that on percent, man.
21:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think I I wasted a lot of years, you know, and again, I'm not I'm not on some high horse, like, you know, looking down on that like I still struggle with this.
22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to keep my heart in check.
22:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But I wasted a lot of years early on in my, you know, reformed my reformed, you know, journey, my reformed story, whatever you want to call it, right?
22:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Where I wanted to fight.
22:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's all I did it.
22:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved fighting, right?
22:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved, let's bring this like I really like the imagery that you use, how can I take this interaction and bring it into the arena?
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's where I'm comfortable.
22:35
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's what I like.
22:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what gives me that,
22:41
[SPEAKER_01]: that energy, that dopamine hit, that just feels so good to fight.
22:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm much more interested now in not, not avoiding confrontation if confrontation is needed.
22:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not what I'm saying.
22:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying be a, be a, be a dormant.
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm much more interested in sitting down with someone, you know, like Dr. Clark or Dr. Fesco.
23:07
[SPEAKER_01]: or any other number of of of of of brothers that I would still consider within orthodoxy like we would agree with 98 99% of stuff but I want to make it about the 1%.
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I've just got an issue with that mentality, man, it drives me crazy.
23:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we have so much to agree on and so much unity that we could celebrate as brothers and sisters in Christ, but we choose to focus on the one or point five percent of things that that we would make
23:48
[SPEAKER_01]: the primary means and the primary output, if you will, of our interaction is that we're at odds with one another.
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And now what that does to your brain is that makes you believe, because you're making that tiny thing all encompassing, you're making that causes you to view that person as an enemy and that causes you to view that person that is
24:11
[SPEAKER_01]: it causes you to view them as being on the other side of this chasm that's impossible to cross.
24:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we just got to pull our heads out of our rear ends and realize
24:27
[SPEAKER_01]: we agree on so much like the reform Baptist world is so small it is we it's so small especially you know especially in the PNW for sure but we are making it our kid show or making it our dang this to make it smaller
24:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we want our own little camps, our own little subset of camps, and if you don't define this just like this, well, then you're not part of the camp.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have this particular understanding of covenant theology, well, then you're not in the camp.
25:05
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't, you know, take your your your confessionalism and apply it just like this, well, then you're that kind of reform baptism, not this kind of reform baptism.
25:15
[SPEAKER_01]: and again, look, I'm not against distinctions, right?
25:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not making a case that we just throw all distinctions to the air and have no lines and don't care at all about theological distinctions or or or or or or definitions.
25:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not advocating that.
25:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just advocating of not making those secondary and tertiary issues primary.
25:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I don't think we can afford to
25:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to be that guy anymore.
25:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I really don't.
25:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to celebrate and have a primary focus on the things that unite us, the things that can encourage us and remind us, Jack, and then I'll throw it over to you.
25:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Remind us of what heaven's going to be like.
25:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there's going to be no strife in heaven.
26:02
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have perfect unity,
26:10
[SPEAKER_01]: and I'm getting to the point where I long to have more tastes of that this side of heaven than less.
26:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think there needs to be more Martin Bootsers around.
26:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So Martin Bootser was a very much a man who was striving for unity.
26:31
[SPEAKER_02]: He's actually one of the first guys who brought
26:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And unfortunately, like that was the biggest that their hang up was on, I think it was the Lord Supper was their biggest hang up like they couldn't, they couldn't come to a pass in that.
26:49
[SPEAKER_02]: But Zwingler Bootser was very much wanting them to keep in peace, and I don't think they were to that point.
26:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think he was trying to do a lot where
27:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Calvin, when Calvin first went to Geneva, he went kind of nuclear on people and boots are brought him to Salzburg and said, hey, how much you take a break?
27:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and come over here and get some, get some different, you know, different environment.
27:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And he started to mentor Calvin a lot more, and he actually gave Calvin a French speaking congregation that was a bunch of refugees in Salzburg.
27:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the Kelvin that you know because he came back to Geneva and it was a lot better after that.
27:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
27:43
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that I think we need more Martin Bootsers who are willing to mentor people and to be those peacemakers.
27:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's going to cost you.
27:51
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to cost you people saying stuff about you and here and there and everywhere.
27:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And but I think I think it definitely is needed more to where, you know, to having that point to where you're trying your best to make with make peace with people.
28:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, is there a place in a time to basically confront things that are not in line with
28:18
[SPEAKER_02]: are confessions that we all do absolutely there is.
28:23
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think there's a difference in confronting something that needs to be confronted versus sticking to all of branch out and having peace with your brothers and Christ who may be in different denominations what not and stuff like those on it.
28:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think we need more mountain boots or less people go in nuclear on each other.
28:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Seeking to understand things is always helpful.
28:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I think the most refreshing thing that I saw from the Pactum Conference.
28:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Josh and I were sitting in a cigar lounge.
28:57
[SPEAKER_02]: with a pastor who, oh yes, and a reformed, who's in a reformed nomination, and Josh was just listening to this guy go about go about how their ecclesiology works.
29:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I knew how this was going to go.
29:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But then Josh is just carl.
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Shut up, carl.
29:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, shout out to Pastor Carl.
29:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
29:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Josh was just kind of like taking a back of just how things were going and stuff like that.
29:23
[SPEAKER_02]: But I really appreciated Josh's can doer because at any time Josh would have could have gone nuclear on them.
29:31
[SPEAKER_02]: and he didn't, and I appreciated Josh kind of like making sure that we were in unity together with each other right there.
29:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And we didn't take the arena route.
29:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Which I think would have been wrong to do to be quite honest.
29:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we were totally agree.
29:48
[SPEAKER_02]: We're both wanting to understand the dynamics of the denomination and how you make decisions and stuff based upon
29:56
[SPEAKER_02]: scripture and whatnot and tradition.
29:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah, that was I think that was a good defining moment to that we need to have those kind of moments more happen more often.
30:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously within reform Baptist culture, but also in the entirety of the reformdom you could say and
30:25
[SPEAKER_02]: um adopted wierry reform kids that they're not going to have a being going to do it.
30:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
30:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the joking and stuff keep it keep up with the jokes and the jabs.
30:54
[SPEAKER_02]: That's you need to keep it light hard.
30:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
30:57
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's, but there's a time and a place when you start to get serious.
31:01
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the tone may change.
31:04
[SPEAKER_02]: The tone may change, but I feel like your disposition to that brother in Christ needs to remain the same is that I need to see them as my brother in Christ, not as not as the enemy, not as somebody who's not to get me.
31:17
[SPEAKER_02]: now that as somebody who's just there to just, you know, I'm they're whipping posts for every theological conversation or something like that.
31:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think we need more of that.
31:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, conference little conferences and stuff like that help.
31:34
[SPEAKER_02]: it's so difficult because I feel like we're trying to recover stuff that we lost during COVID and it's really difficult.
31:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It's difficult to try and to regain ground that you lost out a lot on.
31:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
31:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
31:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, if there's more times and places,
31:55
[SPEAKER_02]: where we get to do that, then keep doing more of that more often versus less of that.
32:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, no, I agree, man.
32:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
32:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, we got to, we got to not value the arena so much.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think there's a, there's an inherent flaw and danger in that because you miss out on a lot of very sweet fellowship.
32:15
[SPEAKER_01]: you really do that you miss out on some gems some people that are just absolute gems that yeah you might disagree and have very very strong disagreements on not not just like surface level theological stuff right like baptism is a big deal and it's a sacrament and it's very very important and we have some serious disagreements with our Presbyterian brothers and
32:43
[SPEAKER_01]: but they're still our brothers and sisters.
32:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and if I'm going to make the entirety of my interaction with those people, the disagreements that we have instead of the unity that we have.
32:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to miss out on some very sweet fellowship and some very sweet moments that give me a foretaste of what heaven's gonna be like.
33:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not willing to miss out on those anymore.
33:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to.
33:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's worth it.
33:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So say it face to face, get face to face.
33:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Value that type of interaction.
33:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And don't fall into the trap of viewing that brother a sister that's across the keyboard, primarily through the lens of your disagreements.
33:29
[SPEAKER_01]: View them through the lens of the unity that you have in Christ and let me, that be the defining feature, the dictature communication.
33:40
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be my advice.
33:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So Jack, yeah, I want you to get us out of here, my friend.
33:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls.
33:46
[SPEAKER_02]: If you appreciate Josh and I as stabs app, college tries to make the, college trust for the local church central to the Believers life, you can join us further in our conversations that we have, in our new things that we put up, those best for the little things called the sociables.
34:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You can find this at the meta.
34:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's in all the meta.
34:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just meta.
34:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Just meta.
34:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
34:12
[SPEAKER_01]: They're always just the Facebook or Facebook Yeah, I don't think we're even on Facebook anymore.
34:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just Instagram and Twitter.
34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Facebook got new Yeah, I think our account somehow.
34:21
[SPEAKER_02]: We got yeah somehow our account got new.
34:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We got to put that back up anyway
34:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you can find us on the instant gram.
34:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Those were the chocolate marshmallows.
34:28
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a little hairy sand top of that.
34:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Or as always, the funnest of them, the most interesting of them.
34:35
[SPEAKER_02]: The most dasturgy at them.
34:37
[SPEAKER_02]: The sociable formula known as Twitter X.
34:40
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want, you can find us at the tagout.
34:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Come with me for a pod.
34:44
[SPEAKER_02]: At all of those sociable platforms, Josh, you can tell what other people on they might support us for.
34:48
[SPEAKER_02]: They're here in Reformation Month.
34:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm getting a call from Ed Romain right now.
34:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Ed, I'm recording.
34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm recording.
34:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to, I got a text him.
35:00
[SPEAKER_01]: He's always talking about how much he loves calling me because I always pick up.
35:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not picking up right now.
35:05
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to think I'm big timing.
35:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not.
35:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I promise.
35:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not big timing.
35:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah, I'm not doing that.
35:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, um, yes, where was I YouTube?
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You can head on over to YouTube.
35:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You can watch these as well.
35:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen to them.
35:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially this Yahoo of a pastor dump in coffee over his churches now.
35:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It's calling me easy calling you answer answer answer answer Text him tell him we're recording.
35:34
[SPEAKER_01]: We're recording at a call in a second
35:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my goodness.
35:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, head on to YouTube.
35:43
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35:43
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35:45
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35:50
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35:52
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35:52
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35:53
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35:55
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35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go overboard to a couple of apps for our people right now.
36:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So we thank you all for listening.
36:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I gotta call it, this is gonna, it's gonna, he's gonna think we're big time in him.
36:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you all for listening, and we'll catch you on the next step of the reformatory.