Latest / The Strength In Numbers Podcast / EP 16: Tanner Care | Driving Organizational Success Beyond the Weight Room

Transcript

EP 16: Tanner Care | Driving Organizational Success Beyond the Weight Room · The Strength In Numbers Podcast

0:00
I'm going to leverage my relationship with the position
0:03
coach and say like, hey, I need contacts and I need fitness.
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Let's get him and him doing some once a day where I can check all
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those boxes and I can top up his workload so that he's kind of in
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close proximity to the high minute players.
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We just work together as a staff and say like, OK, we're going to
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have a short but more intense practice that ultimately is
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going to be kind of like a moderate intensity day where
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that might be more defense emphasis, that might be more
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half court. And now as a performance coach,
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you can reverse engineer that and say like, OK, what is
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involved in that? A lot of contact, a lot of
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change direction, deceleration and a lot of there's not as much
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up and down. So really for me, in order to
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prepare my athletes for that particular practice, I'm going
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to be biasing a lot more braking force, a lot more kind of like
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reflexive or high, high force, eccentric loading.
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I see a lot of players basically be apprehensive towards their
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teachings from their experience within the completed space
1:00
because they got obliterated with the barbell.
1:02
So as soon as I give them autonomy to not touch a barbell,
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they're happy to do so. Is this the pit of super
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compensation or is this a poor response?
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And sometimes you have to play the waiting game.
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If any coach is listening and and they're trying to focus on
1:14
their own development, one of the best ways of going about it
1:16
is actually trying to teach and trying to lecture and try to
1:19
take somebody under your own wing because it really makes you
1:22
consolidate your own systems and really just refine everything.
1:32
Welcome to the Strength in Numbers podcast.
1:34
I'm your host John Bloom and today's guest is Tanner Care.
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Tanner's the Director of Performance for the BC Lions and
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the CFL and the Vancouver Bandits and the CEBO.
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He is absolutely elite when it comes to using data, driving
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performance and impacting an organization's ability to be
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successful. We talked about how to build
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systems for you and your staff, what working in both college and
1:54
pro settings reveal about each other, why he shifted away from
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a barbell focused approach, and how strength coaches can use
2:01
their expertise to become invaluable to an organization's
2:04
success. They're impacting more than just
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the weight room. Tanner also explains how he
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started consulting with other organizations and coaches and
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the importance of crafting your own thought processes and
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shifting from just input to creation.
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Enjoy the episode. All right, Tanner, man, I'm
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pumped to have you here. You know, I think the first time
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I saw stuff that you put out on on Instagram was was saying from
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Kobe McEwen, a guy that you were trained in there that I'd had at
2:30
Weber State in college and just really high level stuff you're
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putting out and just continue to see stuff you're doing from
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there. And I know I learned a lot, a
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lot from you through the stuff you put out.
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So I'm excited to actually get to talk with you in person here.
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And I know everybody else is going to learn a lot too from
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from listening to you. Yeah, man, I really appreciate
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you having me out. It's awesome that we have that
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kind of mutual connection. And yeah, excited to chop it up.
2:51
So tan for the people that don't know you, like talk a little bit
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about who you are and what you do.
2:55
Yeah, for sure. So Tanner Care, I'm based out of
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Vancouver, BC I'm currently the Director performance for the BC
3:02
Lions, which is the CFL team up here.
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I have the Vancouver Bandits, which is the CBL team, our
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professional basketball league. And I also own and operate my
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own business that's predominantly based around
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education and consulting. So as you have kind of those
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multiple roles, how do you how do you juggle all those pieces
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without letting any, you know, one piece slip from the other or
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somebody feeling like they're not getting your full investment
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or intent into to to their organization?
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Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a good
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question. Like a lot of people will ask me
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something kind of similar in regards like how are you
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balancing 2 pro teams? And when I made this transition
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to these roles, a lot of people automatically assumed it was
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about pedigree. Like, I was chasing pedigree,
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but it was actually, if more so like a family move than anything
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else. Like at the time, I was in the
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collegiate space. They wanted all my time.
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You know how it is. I'm sure a lot of listeners
3:51
understand that too. And that was just something that
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I wasn't willing to sacrifice. Like, I really value the time
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with my family, with my daughter.
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So I just said like, enough is enough.
4:00
Like I'm going to pursue another opportunity.
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And thankfully so they had come down the pipeline pretty much
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perfect timing with that. So made the transition to the BC
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Lions. So I'm with two pro teams and
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I'm year round part time for both of them.
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So between those two separate agreements, there's a lot of
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coordination, obviously. But basically my day consists of
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mourning with my daughter, drop her off at daycare, go deal with
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the basketball guys, have a little bit of a road trip and
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then I deal with the football team and then I pick my daughter
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up in the afternoon. That's a wrap.
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Now, it sounds really simple, but with in that framework,
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there's a lot of organization, a lot of coordination.
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And for me, knowing I was stepping into a situation where
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I'm dealing with two pro teams, I had to make sure I had the
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right people in place basically to cast a really wide net.
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So if I wasn't present, the the product wouldn't suffer
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whatsoever. So I'm really thankful with the
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staff that I have. I got Judd Beltran has my
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assistant with the Bandits. He's fantastic.
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And I have a couple of really, really strong interns with the
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Lions. So between those kind of key
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parties, I'm able to coordinate and work with our IST to make
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sure the product stays crispy clan.
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With leading that staff, leading those interns, what systems have
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you had to build out to make sure things run the way you
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want? Because I know sometimes like,
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like I know you operate a high level and I'm sure there's
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things you've learned to do for yourself and you just know
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inherently how to do them, how to run things.
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But I know it's for me sometimes it's like, OK, how do we
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actually transfer that ability to other people when I'm not not
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there to to run it myself? Yeah.
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I mean, I, I do rely on like our software pretty heavily.
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So like we're fully integrated with a sports science
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department. We have a software that we
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deliver all of our programming to for our various athletes.
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We use Team Builder for both organizations.
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Team Builder has been an awesome resource for us and within that
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we try to keep a framework within our daily schedule where
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it's not necessarily super service heavy for my assistants
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and my interns where we can still make sure their
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development is very much at the forefront as well, which kind of
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coincides with delivering of my system, right.
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So we have we speak the same language.
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If I want a particular intervention, if I want a
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particular intent, they know exactly what I mean by that when
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they see it when our team builder are with our force play
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data. So I think just taking kind of
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one step back to take three steps forward and really
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creating an environment where you can nurture the assistants
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and interns you have under you is super, super important on the
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back end. Yeah, yeah, has has that even
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helped you really clarify your own processes from having like
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saying take that step back and OK, like Ned on on specific
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situations, this is what I do. This is how we execute or this
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is how we have an intervention and, and be able to communicate
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that and have operating procedures for your staff and
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even your head now like where you maybe had it in your head
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before, but now you actually nailed down the process and it's
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even helped you personally from from having built those things
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out. Yeah, man, like, I mean, if any
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coach is listening and they're trying to focus on their own
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development, I think probably the the best way to go about it,
7:09
one of the best ways of going about it is actually trying to
7:11
teach and trying to lecture and trying to take somebody under
7:14
your own wing because it really makes you consolidate your own
7:17
systems and really just refine everything.
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So I mean, having a lot of people listen to this and
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understanding how pro environments work, you are
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subject to chaos, you're subject to all the variables changing in
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real time. You need to be able to react
7:32
accordingly very, very quickly. Having a similar terminology,
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having systems in place with your interns and with your
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assistance is super important. So for example, if we talked
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about something as simple as like a top up framework,
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something might pop up like oh, so and so is not traveling even
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though he was traveling or he was dressing 30 minutes ago.
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Great. Now we have to worry about his
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workload and we have to give him top UPS.
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My assistants and my interns know what the framework of
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topics are. So from talking about like an
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offensive lineman, A defensive lineman, I can say I want
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contacts, ground prep and high centric RFD and they should know
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exactly what I'm talking about. But some of that takes time.
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And going back to what I was saying earlier, like I think
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investing in your support staff is tedious and it does take a
8:18
lot of time, but it does significantly help on the back
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end. So we can just have three simple
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terminologies speed out and across the entire staff, they
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know what the expectation is. That's great.
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And through through that mentoring and teaching of that,
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have you found any points where you recognize, oh, like me
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personally, I actually need to shore up my knowledge or my, my
8:37
systems or process in this area because as I'm trying to
8:40
communicate or teach it, I realized, OK, I didn't actually
8:42
have this nailed down quite as much as I thought.
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Yeah, I think, I think for the most part, like I think teaching
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principles, teaching concepts is fairly straight forward.
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I think you organizing your thought processes is a little
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bit more complicated, but still fairly straightforward.
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Like even within the framework that we use with the the bad,
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that's with my assistant, like I tell the entire roster like
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we're very intentional with how we do things.
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We use like a concurrent model that's essentially like that
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high, low model where I could say regen day, form day and
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turbo day. And everyone from the head coach
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to my assistant to the roster knows exactly what kind of
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intent I want. Regen can be very monotonous and
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that's OK. Like I don't need you guys to
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get up. I don't need raw raw today.
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I just need you to check the box and you can just kind of lower
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your state of arousal a little bit, which is great across the
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board. Having high days and trying to
9:34
get everybody up all the time is is can be fairly mentally
9:36
fatiguing. So all that being said, all
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those things are are fairly straightforward.
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But sure enough, when it comes to like an intern group or an
9:45
assistant, I think like the nuances of coaching through like
9:48
execution of a particular task is where you actually actually
9:52
need to focus as a mentor and as a leader on that, the details.
9:55
Because some of that can slip up fairly quickly because
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ultimately these individuals don't have as much experience,
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right? Yeah.
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No, no, that's really good. You mentioned how you were in
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college setting while working pro now.
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Now in the pro settings mainly how how did working in both that
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college and pro setting, what what did those two show you
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about each other? Get into experience and see the
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differences there. Yeah, it's it's quite the
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juxtaposition. So like for the last couple
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years, I was based doing the pro team through the summer months
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and I was in the collegiate space throughout the rest of the
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year. And prior to going with the
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basketball team perspective is a beautiful thing.
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Like I thought I had a bunch of like elite D2 NCAA athletes and
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then you go pro basketball and then you come back the following
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fall and you're just like, none of you are elite.
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You're all developmental. Some of you guys so show flashes
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like you have a lead modified RSI, you're really good at
10:47
change of direction. You're really strong when it
10:50
comes to like voluntary strength, but the gap is huge.
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Some kids like that approach, some kids don't.
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So I mean that ducks. The position was really cool in
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and of itself, but I mean now predominantly being in the pro
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space, it's it's a fairly unique experience in and of itself
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because I see certainly like within Canada, I see a lot of
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the what's happening within the collegiate environment and even
11:12
stateside as well. And I think there's a lot of
11:14
pauses, but I also think there's a lot of negatives like for
11:17
example, like I think a lot of people are going about long term
11:20
methyl development the right way.
11:22
I look at certain programs like I look at it like your Iowa's
11:25
that you just you get kids who aren't like highly touted,
11:29
highly recruited, but they develop during their tenure
11:31
there and then they produce on the back end, right.
11:33
But that being said, like the development model doesn't always
11:36
work for everybody. Like you're going to have your
11:38
freak athletes who come in like literally day one as a freshman
11:41
who have an outstanding 10 yard, have an outstanding top speed,
11:45
have outstanding numbers in the weight room, and they're really
11:47
good within the constraints of their other sport.
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So where do you as a practitioner have to like, are
11:52
you going to have that person go through the long term method
11:54
development model? Not necessarily.
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So now dealing with adults, grown men in both football and
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basketball, I see a lot of players basically be
12:04
apprehensive towards their teachings from their experience
12:07
within a collated space because they got obliterated with a
12:11
barbell. So as soon as I give them
12:12
autonomy to not touch a barbell, they're happy to do so.
12:15
I find the more I work in sports performance, the higher I go up
12:19
in that, the more machines I use.
12:21
And when I give guys autonomy, they gravitate away from what
12:24
they had done throughout their high school and their collegiate
12:27
days. You know, I mean, I think
12:29
there's a little bit of a gap to be closed there.
12:31
And I also find certainly with like the NIL in a situation
12:35
basically the long term athletic development model is kind of
12:39
compromised in a way where you don't get guaranteed 3-4 years
12:42
with kids anymore. You have basically one year.
12:45
There's a large emphasis placed on producing right then and
12:49
there. So I don't think we're
12:51
necessarily taking the time to educate our kids as to how we
12:55
can kind of remove the fluff and really work on long term
12:58
athletic development throughout their tenure, whether it's
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collegiate or pro. So I think one that kind of
13:04
differs from an education piece and I ultimately think movement
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literacy is kind of being compromised as well because of
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the hyper specialization. And you know, as you talked
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about like in the pro shifting away from barbells, much more
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machines, different stuff there. I was like, in your position,
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when you're in college, you know, the logistics of having
13:24
however many teams you have a large volume of athletes, the
13:27
logistics of scheduling to how, how can you still make those
13:31
logistics work, especially when like machines, you know, you're
13:34
probably not going to have maybe enough to do everything you want
13:36
with all those athletes in college if you've got a bunch
13:38
coming in. But at the same time, So how can
13:41
we still kind of like you're saying, meet in the middle there
13:44
of giving them really what they need and not just being at the
13:46
barbell while still fitting the logistics.
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And by the same time, like in the pro, like maybe of like the
13:52
basketball team, you have less, less people in your roster.
13:53
You can really go deep with each person and kind of find what
13:56
they need, where you might have to systematize it a little bit
13:59
more for larger group setting in that college atmosphere.
14:02
Yeah, like I think, I think that's where having like
14:04
archetypes within your system, within your framework is really
14:07
important. So just having like a basic
14:09
classification process where it's like, OK, we're doing a
14:12
bilateral hip and knee dominant day, or we're doing a unilateral
14:16
hip and knee dominant day. Like you as a practitioner
14:18
should have a large pecking order as to what exercises could
14:22
fit within that classification. If I'm talking about like hip
14:25
and knee bilateral, that might be Kaiser squad circle squad,
14:28
front squat, back squat, leg press, hack squat, all these
14:31
different variations, right? So if you have a fairly large
14:35
pool of resources where you can have different machines and and
14:39
particular sections that fits within that kind of archetype,
14:43
then it makes the workflow and the logistics fairly easy where
14:46
you can provide kids the autonomy of choosing maybe like
14:49
a first year kid, like you want them to be comprehensive with a
14:53
barbell. Like there is some like basic
14:54
learning that that they should also ultimately go through.
14:58
But as they kind of mature, as they go through their, when
15:01
you're within the collegiate space, offer them more autonomy.
15:03
They're probably going to gravitate towards stuff that
15:06
they're good at. And when they choose things that
15:07
they're good at, they're probably going to give a lot
15:09
more intent. And ultimately that's you as a
15:11
practitioner removing fluff where you could focus more so on
15:14
the adaptation side of things and less so on the skill side of
15:17
things. I remember a number of years ago
15:20
really listening to Corey Schlesinger when he's back at
15:23
Stanford, really pushing a lot of that with autonomy and just
15:26
talking about that same concept you're talking about where like
15:28
he's going to let his guys choose the different squad
15:30
creation and he can guarantee like if if they feel good with
15:33
the they're going, they're going to push it a lot more.
15:35
And like you're saying the get the results from that and the
15:38
intent in it. And you know, as you talk about
15:41
as, as I mentioned, such anger and you know, you mentioned
15:44
earlier before about having your different themes of days of like
15:46
turbo perform region. Can you talk about like as a
15:49
strength coach, I feel like there has been a trend right
15:52
where the importance of of the position has shifted beyond just
15:56
the weight room. And I know you play a big role
15:58
in organizations with impacting practice planning and impacting
16:04
decision making from the staff as a whole.
16:05
And really not just being like, OK basketball, football staff
16:08
and strength coach, but like, right, we're just part of the
16:11
staff and providing our expertise in in the midst of
16:15
that. Like did you talk about how
16:16
important that is beyond just being the physical development
16:19
person? Yeah, for sure.
16:21
Like ultimately us as practitioners, like we are
16:24
really experts in understanding, preparing and managing sporting
16:27
demands. Now we can take the basic
16:30
concepts of periodization and apply it tactically.
16:33
So we can still do basic fundamental principles of
16:36
periodization like accumulate, actualize, intensify all these
16:40
different variations of periodization and place it
16:43
within where the sport is played.
16:45
And I think ultimately, that has a really positive effect when it
16:49
comes to speaking to front office, speaking to the sport
16:52
coaching staff and members of the IST so that we're on the
16:55
same page and very similar to what I was saying before with
16:58
having like a basic high, low model where everybody can be on
17:01
the same page holistically. So what that looks like an
17:04
application really from kind of like a wide lens zooming in.
17:08
If we're looking at a week ahead where we have two travel days,
17:13
that could be 4 total flights, two games and we get 2 practice
17:17
days. It is ultimately we want to talk
17:19
about what kind of workload we want throughout the course of
17:21
that week, knowing that the travel stress is going to be
17:24
fairly high. We're not necessarily playing at
17:27
home throughout the week. So there's that element.
17:29
You're not sleeping in your own bed.
17:31
Ultimately, we're going to have less touch points from a weight
17:34
room standpoint. They're getting more touch
17:36
points in terms of sporting volume.
17:38
So how can we go about mitigating that stress on the
17:41
back end? Well, ultimately that means our
17:43
practice has to be somewhat low to moderate intensity.
17:47
So for us having that same kind of framework to what I was
17:50
saying before a regen to perform a turbo day, maybe we just work
17:53
together as a staff and say like, OK, we're going to have a
17:56
short but more intense practice that ultimately is going to be
18:00
kind of like a moderate intensity day where that might
18:03
be more defense emphasis, that might be more half court.
18:06
And now as a performance coach, you can reverse engineer that
18:09
and say, like, OK, what is involved in that?
18:11
A lot of contact, a lot of change direction, deceleration
18:15
and a lot of there's not as much up and down.
18:17
So really for me, in order to prepare my athletes for that
18:21
particular practice, I'm going to be biasing a lot more
18:23
breaking force, a lot more kind of like reflexive or high, high
18:28
force eccentric loading. So now we're creating an
18:31
environment where everything holistically is kind of similar
18:34
across the board. If I were to kind of zoom in a
18:36
little bit more into the particulars, this is where I I
18:40
can start to leverage the sporting staff to get what I
18:42
want. So for me across every roster,
18:45
not necessarily just a basketball roster, not every
18:47
person or every athlete has going to have the same amount of
18:50
workload. Obviously you're going to have
18:51
people who play high minutes. Some people are more in a
18:54
developmental role somewhere, some, but some people are in
18:56
between, right. My main goal is to have somewhat
18:59
homeostasis across the entire roster.
19:02
So ultimately I can have somebody who's kind of in that
19:05
middle range of minutes, who needs fitness, who needs extra
19:08
contacts, and rather than me having that person say like, OK,
19:12
we're going to do sprints or we're going to jumps or we're
19:14
going to get you on the bike today, where they're ultimately
19:17
their intent is going to be really, really poor.
19:19
I'm going to leverage my relationship with the position
19:22
coach and say like, hey, I need contacts and I need fitness.
19:26
Let's get him and him doing some once a day where I can check all
19:29
those boxes and I can top up his workload so that he's kind of in
19:34
close proximity to high minute players.
19:35
Yeah. What was what was your process
19:38
for with your staff? Get into that point of trust
19:42
where you can say those things and then also just teaching a
19:46
the common terminology where we're all on the same page with
19:50
that and then them buying, fully buying into that with you.
19:54
And OK, OK, we're going to listen to the strange guy when
19:56
it comes to basketball stuff too, versus just we take care of
19:59
our stuff and he takes. Yeah, it's similar to a lot of
20:02
things. So it's like it's ultimately
20:04
just education, like education, multiple touch points and
20:07
showing that you care. Like if you take a vested
20:10
interest in the sporting demands and what they they have to bring
20:13
to the table and understand what the what each staff members
20:16
strengths and weaknesses are, you can leverage that, right.
20:19
And I think just kind of get your point across as to listen,
20:23
like we're going to do a holistic model.
20:24
Your, your high days on court are going to be very similar to
20:28
the high days that are going to be happening within a weight
20:30
room standpoint. Ultimately, we're here to be a
20:32
resource to you guys as well and not necessarily just the
20:34
athletes. So you can consult us on agent
20:38
systems like, Hey, if I look at a particular drill and we think
20:41
we can clean up like the work rest ratio a little bit or maybe
20:44
the flow are talking about like, Oh my God, it's not playing low
20:47
enough. How can we talk about self
20:49
organization? How can we talk about leverage?
20:51
How can we talk about all these basic bio mechanics principles
20:54
to get a better product on the court?
20:56
Well, that's ultimately like where we come into play.
20:58
Like most performance coaches should be able to wear several
21:01
different hats and, and speak very highly on several subjects
21:04
similar to what I was talking about just there with like bio
21:06
mechanics and energy systems development and just leveraging
21:10
your relationships with the sporting staff.
21:11
So I think, I think for most part it takes time.
21:14
You have to foster those relationships.
21:16
But I think ultimately it comes down to just being very, very
21:19
clear with your intention, educating and having as many
21:22
touch points as you possibly can.
21:24
You know, that's really good. And for, for the other situation
21:28
you were before in college when you had all these programs
21:31
you're working with and maybe not the ability to have as many
21:33
touch points or interactions with each staff.
21:36
What, what did that look like in terms of impacting in this?
21:39
Were you able to do it to the same degree or try and
21:42
systematize it in a smaller impact way or or or how are you
21:45
able to kind of operate in that area?
21:48
Yeah, so I got to go. I'll, I'll spin this a different
21:51
way. So one of my first collegiate
21:54
jobs with with rugby, he was with women's rugby at a really
21:57
high level program in Ottawa. And my sport coach at the time,
22:02
Jen Boyd, she talked on this this 1080 ten rule where 10% of
22:08
whatever cohort you're talking about is going to be
22:10
overachievers. They're going to do all the
22:12
extra stuff, they're going to lead the 80% in the middle or is
22:16
basically just going to be compliant to what is happening
22:19
within the organization. And then the bottom 10
22:22
ultimately are going to be the people who are underachieving.
22:24
But the fallacy with the 1080 ten rule is that the bottom 10%
22:28
is going to take up 90% of most, most resources and staff members
22:33
energy. So you can take that and apply
22:36
it to like work, family, athletics, whatever the case may
22:40
be. So you can I, I took that
22:42
principle with me to the collegiate space and I think it
22:45
was fairly accurate. So even like when I was in a
22:47
situation with the collision space, you want to do right by
22:49
the kids. And my volume in terms of the
22:52
teams that I was dealing with was extremely high.
22:54
The teams more or less showed who they really were.
22:57
Like I knew who the 10% at the top was, I knew who the 80 was
23:01
and I knew who the bottom ten were.
23:02
So for me, I tried to give as best of product as I could to
23:06
everyone. However, I really wanted to
23:09
create a reward system for that top 10% and that 80% where I
23:13
could go into bigger rabbit holes, I could do a lot more
23:16
individual stuff. I could certainly work closer
23:19
with the sport coaches because ultimately you could take a
23:22
conceited effort to do that holistic model across the board
23:26
with 12 or 13 varsity teams. However, that's going to be at
23:29
the expense of your energy, your time.
23:32
And I think certainly as performance coaches within a
23:35
collegiate space, I think it's really important for people to
23:38
set very firm boundaries because I think that's where you start
23:41
to reduce your value as a as a staff member when you're
23:44
constantly readily available. So I think setting boundaries is
23:47
really important. But that 1080 ten rule was was
23:50
very clutch for me. Yeah, no, I, I really love that
23:53
rule because, because I feel like sometimes it's like if we,
23:56
we feel as coaches that the people that like don't want to
23:59
go all, and they don't want to be that top 10% or even the 80%,
24:03
it's like we want to chase them and like force them to, to, to
24:07
get into that area. But like, I just started as a
24:11
high school strength coach at the, on top of the business
24:13
stuff. And that's kind of how I've been
24:15
thinking about too. It's like I want to like only
24:17
serve the people who want to be served the most and then try and
24:20
bring the other people along. But I'm not going to, I can't.
24:25
My focus needs to be on the people that want to get better
24:27
first and foremost. And let's try and bring people
24:29
along. But if we put all of our engine
24:31
resources and the people that don't necessarily want to be
24:34
there like then we're, we're, we're not providing what we
24:38
could to the people that actually do really want to be
24:40
there and want to get better. And and we'll actually really
24:43
use what we're trying to provide to them.
24:45
Yeah. I think it's, I think it's been
24:46
1 of like the the main drivers to a lot of the success that
24:50
I've had from a buy in standpoint.
24:52
Now I think some teams have been obviously more successful than
24:55
others. A lot of that is dependent on
24:57
how much FaceTime you get with the entire team, how much
25:00
FaceTime you get with the individuals throughout the
25:02
entire organization in terms of just putting your intention
25:06
across, having things make sense of the why, being crystal clear.
25:09
I think whenever you have an environment like that, it's
25:12
always going to be favorable to you from a buying standpoint.
25:14
But if that's not the case, then I think you leaning on that ten,
25:19
8010 is going to be really important.
25:21
So for an example, when I first started at my last gig in the
25:25
collegiate space, one of the best teams that I worked with
25:27
was track and field and buy in was super low from the sport
25:30
coach, from the athletes, from the administration.
25:33
Nobody was on board like, hey, we're just going to run Sprint
25:36
throw and that's it. The weight room is like
25:39
whatever. So I had that top 10% who are
25:42
super keen and the other 90% of the entire roster start to see
25:47
that top 10%. Everybody of that 10% became all
25:51
Americans start having all these successes and sure enough,
25:55
everybody started to just migrate over.
25:57
So I think just a lot of like yourself and other coaches to
26:00
really just hone in on that model and just double down on
26:04
what you have, whether it's one person or 10 people or whatever
26:07
the case may be, is going to be really, really beneficial to you
26:11
as a coach from a buying standpoint.
26:12
You mentioned long term athlete development, you know, because
26:16
I'm IA little bit from your perspective, right, you're out
26:19
at the top of the pro level right now.
26:20
But if you could take a kid all the way back when they're in
26:24
their youth and you had full control over really all aspects
26:28
of sporting physical development all the way up until now, they
26:31
get to you at the pro level. What would those different
26:34
phases and and and and periods of development look like for you
26:38
if you you had full say over what's happening?
26:41
OK OK so is this pre pre bezen or post you're saying a high
26:45
school? Kid, let's go like let's say,
26:47
let's say, let's take like a 10 year old right here.
26:49
Oh, OK, OK, So yeah, we lean in on just your relationship with
26:54
exercise, period. Everything has to be fun.
26:56
Everything has to be gamified. Everything has to be, to a
26:59
certain extent, education, but I think fun has to be the
27:01
centerpiece of everything you do.
27:03
If you're talking about 10 year olds, that's somebody who's has
27:05
not had puberty yet. Like we are not playing the
27:07
hormone game like we are playing the relationship with exercise
27:10
game. And ultimately that's where we
27:13
as practitioners have to lean in really hard from a motor
27:16
learning standpoint. So if I'm dealing with a 10 year
27:19
old, I would ideally like to see that person maybe four times a
27:23
week, maybe five times a week as money touch points as you
27:27
possibly can. Because as we know, more
27:28
learning and motor control development takes a lot of time
27:32
and a lot of touch points. So I don't think necessarily
27:35
seeing that kid once or twice a week is going to cut it.
27:38
So I think fostering that is going to be really important
27:41
just in terms of like what kind of ecosystem you're trying to
27:43
create for that individual. But for me, like I'm throwing
27:46
the kitchen sink up at that person where I'm mostly just
27:49
focusing on motor control and movement literacy.
27:51
Like I want to think about robust from a plyo standpoint,
27:55
from a mechanic stand point, from a sprinting standpoint,
27:58
weight room, sure. Like I might do a lot of
28:00
calisthenic stuff. I might do a lot of like just
28:02
body control stuff, like almost like Poliquin style tempo stuff
28:05
like where we're just doubling down on skill movement, literacy
28:10
and robustness. So that when we're a little bit
28:13
further down the road, maybe 1314, whatever the case may be,
28:17
and we are playing the hormone game, then we can start to see
28:21
all this beautiful adaptation happen.
28:22
But if you have a three-year runway with a kid, to just have
28:27
them become as as strong a mover as possible, that is, that is
28:32
actually kind of the ideal situation so that when you do
28:35
cross that line and you're playing the hormone game, you're
28:37
going to see a fantastic product on the back end.
28:41
Yeah, No, for sure for you. I know you, you do a really good
28:44
job of of using data and you've mentioned before within driving
28:48
decision making, has there been times where you've gone back and
28:52
forth with certain decisions to make and then after after making
28:56
that decision in a period of time goes by that data really
28:59
confirmed that you made the correct decision?
29:02
Or has there been times when you've seen from the data after
29:06
period of time? Oh, like, this isn't.
29:08
This isn't the way we should have gone or or or.
29:09
We need to course correct now. Yeah, I think I think from a
29:13
data standpoint, so if I'm talking about like GPS data and
29:17
how we can kind of cross reference that with certainly
29:20
like weight room programming as well as the force blated
29:23
information. So we just take like a basic
29:25
kind of movement jump once a week.
29:27
So taking those main variables into consideration, I think one
29:31
kind of soft spot where it can, it can create a decent amount of
29:36
apprehensiveness or waiting or you have to like really be
29:40
critical is whether that person we're seeing a fatigue like you,
29:47
you're seeing that kind of dip in the Super compensation model
29:51
and we're seeing fatigue happen and we just, we're playing the
29:53
waiting game for them to super compensate.
29:55
Or if that person is just not responding well to the stimulus
30:00
that you've provided them or as a whole is our ecosystem, is
30:04
there something wrong with the ecosystem?
30:06
Because like certainly with the force play data like we use
30:08
Hawkins, we can plot trend lines for basically all these
30:12
different metrics at the same time.
30:13
And it's fairly normal to see some variance.
30:16
So like I could see jump height plateau, but I can see modified
30:19
RSI go up, time to take off go up and peak repulsive force go
30:24
down. Like there's some variance with
30:25
all those if I'm looking at the exact same timeline.
30:28
But I mean, if systemically everything is going down, then
30:32
we have to think about the whole ecosystem.
30:34
Like something is wrong with the ecosystem that we're creating
30:36
because we should see a lot more variance in that.
30:38
So that's when again, you can leverage IST and stuff like
30:41
that. But I guess to answer your
30:42
question, like I would say more so the waiting game of like, OK,
30:46
is this the pit of super compensation or is this a poor
30:49
response? And sometimes you have to play
30:51
the waiting game. So it's like, OK, if I have two
30:54
touch points or greater, so like 3 or 4 touch points where it's
30:57
continuously going down, that is not super compensation anymore.
31:01
Like that is just a poor response or potentially the
31:03
whole ecosystem thing that I was mentioning before where you as a
31:07
performance coach have to pivot. And I think like for a lot of
31:10
younger practitioners, a lot of them feel some type of way about
31:13
that. Like they feel insecure or like,
31:15
oh, I'm shit at my job or whatever, whatever the case may
31:18
be. But I think you as a performance
31:20
coach, you have to understand ebbs and flows are always going
31:22
to happen. And I think you kind of removing
31:25
yourself from the constraints of the weight room and trying to
31:27
think about the big picture. Like what is the what was the
31:31
ecosystem that we are providing our athletes from a practice
31:34
periodization standpoint, nutrition, sleep, obviously the
31:38
weight room, right? What are we ultimately providing
31:40
those athletes where we can kind of take a step back and be like,
31:43
OK, let's audit this, let's change this, Let's just make as
31:46
many adjustments as needed or the necessary adjustments to
31:49
tweak or we need to tweak. So having a negative trend
31:52
happen is not the end of the world.
31:53
And I think a lot of young practitioners certainly feel it
31:56
is where they just ultimately just do things as black and
32:00
white, as objective as possible and just sometimes you just got
32:02
to pivot. Yeah.
32:03
And like you're saying where, you know, some people think if
32:07
we're seeing some of these downward trends all the time,
32:09
it's like, I feel like part of that is like the popularity of
32:12
like, and I do stupid, you know, always ingraining testing within
32:16
training and trying to, you know, you know, put out of the
32:19
leaderboards every single week. We need like improvements every
32:21
single week. And if we're not, then we're
32:23
going in the wrong way. But, but like you're saying
32:26
with, with the looking at whether it's, you know, a
32:28
downward trend or super comp super conversation that you got
32:32
to know at the certain periods that when you're trying to
32:35
really push for that super conversation, like you got to
32:37
know that that's when that's going to happen.
32:39
And understanding the times of year, the phases of offseason or
32:43
in season, wherever we're at based off, like you're saying,
32:47
the whole ecosystem, like, OK, you know, in season at different
32:50
points of the year, Like maybe as we're getting further and
32:52
further towards the, the, the postseason practice volumes
32:55
going to back off, we're going to see a different trend coming
32:58
on. So just knowing all those
32:59
variables that are happening and knowing, Hey, like during this
33:01
time, like we're probably going to see a downward trend in some
33:04
of these things because of the global fatigue and not freaking
33:07
out about that. But then knowing if there is a,
33:10
if there is a variant from you know the usual trends in those
33:13
certain times of the year, then OK, like how can we course
33:15
correct or find out what's going on to kind of 'cause this?
33:18
And that's like that's also like the different thing about being
33:21
in a pro sport environment where like often times you can't
33:24
necessarily share force played information or even sometimes
33:28
GPS information with members of this coaching staff or the front
33:32
office, because a lot like the the players association can and
33:37
will get involved. It's like, why am I doing these
33:39
force plate jumps? If I go down?
33:42
Is that going to impact my status with the team?
33:44
Right. So I think like you just having
33:48
multiple touch points with players and just educating them
33:51
on what you're seeing and why you're seeing it is ultimately
33:55
the the best course of action when it comes to interpreting
33:57
data. Like obviously you don't have to
33:59
nerd out on somebody who gets played to play football or play
34:01
basketball, but a trend line is pretty straightforward.
34:04
And I think like that's what you see at the highest levels is
34:08
like, can you explain really difficult concepts, kind of like
34:10
how you're speaking to like a fifth grader, right?
34:13
So I had a situation the other day.
34:15
I'm like, OK, cool, let's let's have a touch point.
34:17
We're almost going into the bye week.
34:19
I think this is a good opportunity for us.
34:20
I got good news and bad news. Good news is like jump heights
34:24
trending up. All these reactive qualities are
34:26
trending up. So I'm seeing a really positive
34:28
adaptation in that regard. However, your force is going
34:31
down. So I'm thinking we need either
34:34
more intent, so like higher neural drive on concentric
34:37
action, that might be special methods, or I could just change
34:41
up the total training density for that individual.
34:44
And when you explain it that like that and they physically
34:47
see the trend lines going up, but that one is going down.
34:50
They're like, OK, that makes sense.
34:51
Yeah, like you and I are on the same page.
34:53
Let's go with option A. I'll just give more intent.
34:56
Or like, what special methods are you talking about?
34:58
Like are they fun? Like what would that entail?
35:01
Maybe I'll do it, maybe I won't do it.
35:03
So I think like you're just involving the athletes in the
35:05
process is going to be super important.
35:07
For sure. Yeah.
35:08
I think like when there's the times where you're like
35:10
collecting data and you just collect it and you never share,
35:13
you never talk about it. And the athletes just start
35:16
feeling like, why do we do this every week?
35:18
Like, what are we doing? This is just wasting our time
35:22
and, and maybe you're doing some of it, but you know, they have
35:25
no idea why they're doing it and they feel like you're just, it's
35:28
just another task, right? Especially you're talking about
35:29
pro athletes, like they've got so many people asking things of
35:32
them and it you can just become another one of those people
35:36
asking them for another thing in their day, unless you take the
35:39
press like you're talking about like they maybe make them a part
35:41
of that process, right? I feel like especially the pro
35:43
level, it's more about that partnership, right?
35:46
And you're using that data to partner with them, to show them
35:50
the the path ahead to get them right.
35:52
Ultimately more money and more success and, and wins.
35:54
Yeah. Facts, that's that's absolute
35:56
facts. Like I think, I think if you
35:59
could view it more so as like you're not a superior to them,
36:01
but like we're kind of Co workers and like at the end of
36:04
the day, you're a resource to them.
36:05
So I think like for me anyways, that's probably my biggest pet
36:08
peeve is when you have something like AGPS or you have something
36:12
like sports plates, but it's just, it's very disingenuous to
36:15
me. If you just collect, collect,
36:16
collect, but it's not actually guiding anything that you're
36:20
doing. And you're not informing your
36:21
athletes as to why they're allocating any time or any
36:25
energy towards these resources, right?
36:27
I think just involving them in the process.
36:29
And like with pros, ultimately, like if you're talking about buy
36:31
in, like you need to remove as much fluff as possible.
36:34
Like the, the more fluff you have with with a professional
36:37
athlete who is like 303540 sometimes, like that's a really
36:41
great way of getting them to not be involved in your system.
36:45
Yeah, yeah. Especially, especially when
36:47
they've had 5-10 strength coaches in their career and, and
36:52
been they've seen all the different things like this.
36:55
It's not something new. You can like trick or or
36:57
whatever, then like they they know what's going on here.
37:00
Yeah, yeah. Especially like, especially
37:02
football guys, like they'll vet you so quickly.
37:05
So I mean, and there's ultimately going to be like
37:07
varying kind of principles, like people, like you said, have been
37:11
trained by 5-10 different people with different ideologies.
37:14
Like I, I work with a go to guy currently I work with a guy who
37:19
like really loves like the Mark Marinovich principles.
37:22
Like so he's all nervous system all the time.
37:25
So there's like, I think just kind of taking a seek to
37:27
understanding approach and be like, OK, like, cool, like what
37:30
do you need from me? This is kind of where the gaps I
37:32
see currently with like the stuff that you like to lean in,
37:35
these are kind of my concern. So like where can we meet in the
37:38
middle kind of thing? So it's just it's all a dance.
37:40
In in those situations, how do you push it?
37:44
Like are, are you taking their input and, and letting that kind
37:48
of, you know, add in some of what they like to what you're,
37:53
you're planning for them? Or are you kind of letting them,
37:55
if they're working with their own people or if they're doing
37:58
some of the stuff on their own, they kind of do that and then
38:00
you kind of fill in the gaps with what you think from your
38:02
perspective fits with that? Yeah, so like so with people who
38:06
have like a a bias and like with pro guys, like they all have
38:11
their routines whether they're good or not good.
38:13
Like they're all for the most part will have a routine.
38:16
So like the the Marinovich guy, for example, like everything is
38:20
vibrating, everything is twitching.
38:21
Everything is is essentially like really biasing the nervous
38:25
system side of the spectrum. I'm like, hey, that's really
38:27
cool, man. Like I actually like, I don't
38:29
hate that stuff if I'm being transparent, like you leaning on
38:32
one side of the spectrum is awesome, but I think when you do
38:36
that, you're kind of neglecting the other side of the spectrum.
38:38
So my only concerns would be around like tissue quality.
38:42
So like if you're super twitchy, but then you go through a
38:46
contact sport, ultimately I'm concerned about a hamstring
38:49
outfit. Like I'm concerned about an
38:51
oblique. I'm concerned about this.
38:52
And like, I just, I remember listing three things.
38:55
He's like, those were my last three injuries.
38:57
Like like in that order. I was like, yeah, he's like,
39:01
he's like, yeah, you know what, let's talk like maybe we can
39:03
just splice in some of the stuff that you would advocate for and
39:07
we can kind of create like a blend of sorts.
39:09
And I'm like, yeah, I'm totally fine with doing that.
39:12
In terms of guys working with other people, it's obviously
39:15
fairly prominent in both the sports that I work in,
39:17
basketball and football. And ultimately, like I don't
39:20
want 100% compliance. I don't think that's realistic.
39:22
Certainly with the football team and it being my first year here,
39:26
we do have very, very good compliance.
39:28
But there are guys who's like, I have my own trainer or this is
39:31
what I do in season, blah, blah, blah.
39:33
And that's where the technology comes into play.
39:35
It's like it's no longer anecdotal.
39:37
It's no longer about my feelings and my biases.
39:40
It's just like, that's cool. Like here's what I'm seeing.
39:43
So it's like if somebody is programming for you or you have
39:46
your own guy, but all I'm seeing is a negative trend line.
39:49
Now we have to have a conversation.
39:51
Yeah, no, that's good. I think the way you talked about
39:54
that first situation where you again partnered in and asked and
39:58
talked rather than you running, it's like, hey, like what you're
40:01
doing like this is what's wrong with it.
40:02
This, this and this. Like it's going to cause these
40:05
problems. Like you need to stop doing.
40:06
You need to do what I'm doing. Like that just throws them what,
40:08
you know, pushes them away right away.
40:10
They don't want anything to do with you.
40:11
But like the way you, like you even just had that conversation
40:15
where it's like, OK, like I see that.
40:16
Like I like these parts of it and like you, you're not just
40:19
dismissive, but then it's like, OK, this.
40:22
And we can add these aspects then there's so much more open
40:25
to that versus just dismissing what they're doing that's going
40:28
to turn them off right away. Yeah, 100%, yeah.
40:32
Now, now shifting gears a little bit, we talked about you
40:35
developing your own staff and interns.
40:38
If we could rewind back to when you were 20 years old, what what
40:42
are the steps that you would take if you could go back then
40:45
to progress both your skill as a coach and your career as a coach
40:50
as rapidly as possible? Oh man.
40:54
I mean, for the most part, like a lot of people who work in
40:57
sports performance, they kind of follow the same pattern.
41:00
They go like private sector, public sector, back to private
41:04
sector. I think.
41:06
I don't know if I would change a whole lot.
41:08
I'm very lucky and incredibly fortunate with the people I've
41:12
been around and the mentorships that I have had.
41:14
It's the reason why I am who I am today.
41:17
But I mean, if I were to reflect like I'm thinking post grad, I
41:21
think I did spend a little bit too much time initially anyways,
41:26
in the private sector, you finish school.
41:28
I'm trying to get engaged. I'm thinking about like a post
41:31
grad trip. I'm just thinking about like
41:33
life after sport. So big transition period.
41:36
So I'm just thinking money. So let's get experience.
41:39
I did like a ton of personal training, which like to be
41:42
honest, I think would serve everybody.
41:44
Like I think just like your soft skills, like how to interact one
41:47
O 1. I think just like really
41:49
refining your skills as a coach, certainly from like a movement
41:52
standpoint, I think everybody should do it until they get like
41:55
their CCS and they go obviously more so into like athletics or
41:58
the tactical side of things. I just think I spent too much
42:01
time in it before I ventured back into athletics.
42:04
I think like maybe even removing like one year or two years out
42:07
of that equation and like maybe going abroad, like maybe coming
42:10
stateside that because ultimately in Canada, like we're
42:13
not as rich from like a resource that side of things.
42:16
Like I didn't get exposed to GPS till late.
42:19
I didn't get exposed to force plates until late.
42:21
So like I think maybe taking a year or two post grad or even
42:26
after like my little stints in the private sector just to do
42:29
another internship or get like private mentorship from somebody
42:33
who I looked up to that did have resources that could teach me
42:36
with those things. So that I can more or less add
42:39
that to my tool belt. So that when I came back home or
42:42
wherever else I, I was really equipped with the knowledge,
42:45
certainly from a resource standpoint for when I entered
42:48
out Flex early on. As, as we talk about developing
42:52
yourself through that and developing yourself now and, and
42:54
building your skill now with so much input always available,
42:59
social media, books, podcasts, videos, webinars, whatever it
43:02
is, there's, there's always so much stuff like how do you
43:05
filter what's actually valuable and needed for yourself in the,
43:09
in this moment? I, I mean, I've said go once and
43:11
I'll say it again. Like I think having mentorship
43:14
is, is the fastest and most efficient way to expedite any
43:18
kind of development process, whether you're late in the game
43:21
or, or you're just coming out of school.
43:23
Like I think you going to individuals that most likely
43:26
have niched to a certain degree and really going to them from a
43:30
place of, of development and just saying what your intentions
43:34
are, what you want to learn. I think that's, that's, that's
43:37
crucial to your own development. So if you have a passion for
43:40
speed development, go head up Les Spellman, go head up the
43:43
Altos guys, go head up whoever you want to hit up, I think
43:46
they're going to provide you with a ton of resources.
43:48
They're going to filter all the fluff and and really just
43:52
expedite that process for you. Similar if you're really into
43:55
like like body composition side of things, like you're going to
43:58
find a Poliquin person or a strength person or a power
44:01
person, or maybe you have a passion towards like particular
44:05
skill development, like your throws or jumps or whatever the
44:07
case may be. So I think I think mentorship is
44:10
probably the best way, way to go in terms of exploiting that
44:12
process because I know early in my career that was that.
44:15
I think that that probably fast tracked my own development like
44:19
three to five years. Like my, my first internship, I
44:23
would basically be in facility throughout the day and I would
44:26
spend 2 hours every single day on a whiteboard just getting
44:29
obliterated by these people. Now Fast forward till now, like
44:33
I'm incredibly valuable for that experience, but in the moment it
44:36
sucked. Blood, sweat, tears, like it's
44:38
like, but ultimately there's, there's growing pains like
44:41
something else, right? But I would definitely say
44:42
mentorship. And that's what kind of why I
44:44
base the majority of my business stuff around mentorship.
44:47
It's just it's something I believe in.
44:49
I think it's something that's super valuable, people.
44:50
Yeah, no, I can agree more. I mean, like I know for me and
44:53
my like the mentors I've had, I would not be anywhere close to
44:57
where I am today and coaching our life without them.
45:00
And you know, I've, I've, I've heard more and more people say
45:05
it and seeing the importance of it more and more in my life.
45:07
So see, now that I'm in business of like, if you want to be good
45:10
at something like, like you're saying speed or whatever it is,
45:14
like go find the best people in the world of that and seek them
45:17
out and, and be willing to pay for it too.
45:19
I think like sometimes I coach, we're hesitant to pay, right?
45:22
Sometimes we're not getting paid a lot ourselves.
45:24
But like, I feel like when you're willing to pay for
45:27
mentorship or consulting or whatever it is in different
45:30
areas of what you want to be good at, like you're going to
45:31
fast track yourself. So much and you're going to make
45:33
that money back so quickly. And as you mentioned that you
45:38
mentioned your business like how did you get into mentoring other
45:41
coaches? And I know you're doing a lot of
45:43
consulting now to like what led, what was those first steps to
45:46
stepping into that room for yourself?
45:48
Yeah. I mean, I think I've always been
45:50
passionate about educating. I think that's something that
45:52
I've always had. I think one particular gift that
45:55
I have is kind of similar to what I was saying before is just
45:57
taking a really complex subject matter and distilling it down to
46:01
a really simple concepts or just in terms of how you convey that
46:05
information. So funny enough, like during the
46:07
pandemic, I did a post with like my wife, like I was really into
46:11
like Cal deets and stuff. And I was talking about like how
46:14
the foot and ankle complex has a relationship with hip extension
46:18
patterns. So I did like there was probably
46:19
just like a crappy post or whatever, but then that just
46:22
spurred conversation. That conversation ended up being
46:26
my first consulting gig with actual to say it, I was like the
46:29
University of Oklahoma. I was like with their sports
46:31
performance staff and that was my first like official
46:34
unofficial consulting gig. And I think just the more you
46:38
put your own biases, your own ideas, your own thought
46:41
processes out there, it's either going to bite you in the ass and
46:43
you're going to learn from it or it's going to pay dividends in a
46:46
positive way. But in a way that's both
46:48
positive, but I think it's going to spark conversation and
46:51
wherever you can spark conversation, that's really what
46:53
your opportunity to give value. So that was more or less my
46:56
first experience and, and obviously with my, my passion
46:59
for educating others and running multiple internships over the
47:02
last like five to seven years, that's just something that I
47:05
wanted to just finally take the leap on and, and do it
47:07
officially, right. So it started fairly small, just
47:10
more or less word of mouth and it's, it's grown quite a lot
47:12
since then. So consulting with MLB teams,
47:15
NHL teams, multiple other collegiate organizations, it's
47:19
been, it's been fantastic. I think ultimately, if you, if
47:22
you want to do something, you just got to take the jump.
47:24
You don't have to wait for a certain credential or a certain
47:26
experience, like if you have something you want to say or you
47:29
have value to to give across and just take the leap.
47:33
That's really awesome. And as he talked about that and
47:36
talked about like putting your own unique thoughts and, and
47:39
voice out there, how, how can people, I guess, find in their
47:44
own voice where like we talked about the importance of
47:46
mentorship. Sometimes you get into the cycle
47:49
of just doing what your mentor did or seeing all these
47:52
different things on social media or in books and you're just
47:54
trying to do all these different things other people are doing.
47:56
How do people start to find clarity on like their own system
48:00
or methods or own viewpoint and perspectives to then be able to
48:04
start putting that out versus just doing what other people are
48:06
doing? Yeah.
48:07
Like I think it's, it has to be trial by fire.
48:10
Like I think you have to not, I think we're kind of in the
48:12
information an era like everything is readily at your
48:14
fingertips, but I think you getting into some circumstances
48:18
where you're producing something is super important.
48:21
So like in my own mentorship, in my own internships, like I lean
48:25
really heavy on whiteboard sessions.
48:27
I lean really heavy on people creating something because
48:30
ultimately that trial by fire is going to be a circumstance to
48:33
which they're going to have to organize their thoughts.
48:35
They're going to have to distill all these concepts down into
48:37
really simple ways of communicating and they're going
48:40
to more importantly, they're going to run into like
48:42
roadblocks and barriers that they have to overcome.
48:45
But them overcoming those barriers like this exercise
48:48
selection doesn't make sense or this doesn't fit within like a
48:51
weekly undulating. Like I said, it was going to
48:54
like them overcoming those obstacles are ultimately going
48:56
to be the main drivers for their own growth and their own
49:00
learning. But it takes reps like you have
49:02
to get this. It's just like training.
49:04
You need a lot of exposure to navigating those concepts.
49:08
So I think ultimately you have to bias producing more than
49:11
necessarily in taking information because I know
49:14
plenty of people who I'll never forget it.
49:16
Like my first year conducting an internship, I would just go
49:19
super lecture heavy and I would give them all this information,
49:23
all these resources. And then there would be kind of
49:26
like one quote on quote, quote evaluation at the end.
49:29
And it's like, oh, OK, so you did hang cleans and I'm seeing
49:33
like 5 sets of eight. Why did you do that?
49:37
I don't know, like, what do you mean you don't know?
49:39
Like they can't, they can't connect the dots, right?
49:42
So I think it just ultimately takes, it takes repetition.
49:45
And I think I think producing things is really important and
49:48
doing so like you're going to make errors.
49:51
And I think having an environment where you can create
49:54
errors that is going to be inconsequential.
49:56
Like it's not like you're working with a high profile
49:59
athlete where you're going to screw them up or anything like
50:00
that. And ultimately taking that
50:02
opportunity to to filter your own system and your own thoughts
50:06
is going to be really important for the development.
50:08
I start thinking myself like periods of input and periods of
50:10
output where OK like when I was trying to create this book.
50:15
Like I'm, I'm not going to bring in a bunch of input to myself.
50:18
Like I'm trying to just, I'm just producing.
50:20
Like you're saying, I'm trying to create this thing and not put
50:23
in all this other stuff in my head.
50:25
I'm like pretty much stopped reading other books and stuff.
50:27
And then once that was done, I was like, OK, I need a period
50:30
away from output. Like I'm, I'm, I'm going to let
50:32
myself just consume some books or different stuff, all these
50:35
different stuff. Even if it's not necessarily for
50:36
something right now, it's having kind of designated periods of
50:39
that understanding. Like it can't just all be one.
50:42
Just like, because I know when I was young too is like, OK, just
50:44
input, input, input. Like you're saying, it's like,
50:47
am I actually using this for something and putting it into
50:50
producing something because I feel like that's what that's
50:52
what creates understanding and retention of knowledge.
50:57
And hopefully you're saying to like, I remember like I was
51:00
under my first mentor for about a year in my undergrad and
51:04
learned a ton from him. And, but then it was like, if I
51:06
ever went to like write a program, I felt like I could,
51:08
everything I wanted to do was just the same as, as, as the way
51:11
he did it. And then after that year, I went
51:14
home that summer and was in charge of people on my own.
51:17
And I was just in the fire there.
51:18
And through that whole summer of doing that programming and
51:21
adapting based on what's happening in front of me, like
51:24
I, I, I started to find my own perspective and voice and, and
51:28
be able to take a lot of what he did, but then put my own spin on
51:31
it. And then when I got back, I
51:33
said, OK, now I can Stephanie does other situations and, and
51:36
really feel confident in how I'm doing things and programming
51:39
myself versus just copying the programs that I've seen him do.
51:42
Yeah, I like that. I like input versus output.
51:45
You know, as, as we kind of get close to wrapping up here,
51:47
there's a, you know, a couple questions I like to ask people.
51:50
We we've touched on a couple pieces of these, but the, you
51:53
know, the name is podcast strength numbers is caring over
51:56
from the theme of the book. And and so much of the book,
51:58
like we've talked about, is about mentorship and coaches
52:01
impacting other coaches for your journey.
52:03
What are some of the the the most key people and key moments
52:07
that have impacted your journey as a coach throughout?
52:10
This a man. So I mean my my first ever
52:13
mentor was Donnie Ruiz. Actually, you know what first
52:17
mentor was? Marcelo Campinero.
52:19
He was like my high school SNC, but he was in the CFL himself.
52:23
Like he was doing SNC there and he was a high level track coach.
52:27
So I think having good training from the jump definitely keep my
52:31
interest in the subject matter, but also give me like a frame of
52:34
reference just to kind of filter out what was kind of good and
52:37
what was not at a young age. My first like true mentor was
52:39
Donnie Ruiz. So he had played in the CFL and
52:43
he was a Polyquin guy, but he was also like like a speed guy.
52:46
So it was an interesting combination with that.
52:48
So outside of that, like that's when I kind of took my own
52:50
learning into my own control. I saw I stumbled across Calde.
52:54
It's like him and his like adaptation centric approach at
52:59
the time was really groundbreaking to me because
53:02
having been developed by a track guy and having been developed by
53:06
a Poliquin guy, I was taught skill.
53:09
Like the better you become at skills, the more transfers to
53:13
adaptation, adaptations of byproduct, you getting better at
53:16
skills. So if you regress in your skill,
53:19
let's remove the weight from the barbell and dial in on the skill
53:22
more. Whereas Cal, it was more of like
53:24
a simplistic approach. It's like, let's not worry about
53:27
skill and focus more so on adaptation.
53:29
I really love the work that Daniel Bove has done and Corey
53:33
Schlesinger has done more so on like how to have a framework for
53:39
managing holistic stress within the constraints of practice,
53:43
within the constraints of the weight room, even nutrition.
53:45
I think that was incredibly important for my own
53:47
development. And obviously I base a large
53:50
majority of the stuff that I do, certainly with basketball based
53:53
off of those principles. And for me, like I'm a huge,
53:56
huge speed guy myself, like I worked in the track and field.
53:59
I still work in track and field even though I've kind of dialed
54:02
in on football and basketball. But I think a lot of the work
54:05
that like the Altus guys like Dan Fast to McMillan has done
54:09
has been fantastic and super important for my own
54:12
development. So those are kind of like the
54:14
key figures in my regard that have kind of helped me formulate
54:17
my own system. This was an awesome
54:20
conversation, but unfortunately we had some connection issues
54:23
and couldn't upload the very end of it.
54:25
I apologize for that, but I'm super grateful for Tanner being
54:27
on and sharing his knowledge. If you wanted to learn or
54:31
consult with him, the best place to go would be his Instagram at
54:34
Coach dot Care. Now.
54:36
I'm super grateful for everybody that listened this far, and
54:39
we'll see you next time on the next episode of the Strengthen
54:41
Numbers podcast.