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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: The Hollywood Hills Homicide of Amie Harwick · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:08
Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I've been out to
0:20
Speaker 1: LA a few times in my in my career, I've
0:23
Speaker 1: had to film different things out there and interact with
0:26
Speaker 1: folks out in Hollywood. And one of the odd little
0:29
Speaker 1: asides about LA is this location there called the Hollywood Hills.
0:36
Speaker 1: It's strange for somebody like me that lives down here
0:39
Speaker 1: in the Deep South, but you go there and the
0:42
Speaker 1: roads just kind of snake around you. You never know
0:46
Speaker 1: where you're gonna wind up. But I got to tell you,
0:49
Speaker 1: you know, when you begin to take it all in
0:52
Speaker 1: and you look down and you can see the city
0:54
Speaker 1: kind of laying out there before you, it's quite breathtaking.
0:58
Speaker 1: It almost as though it's not real. It almost does,
1:04
Speaker 1: in fact, seem like in that setting that the city
1:09
Speaker 1: is a movie set. The views are fantastic. Today, we're
1:15
Speaker 1: going to talk about a lady that lived there, that
1:18
Speaker 1: was part and parcel of that community that people knew,
1:22
Speaker 1: people in very high echelns out in Hollywood. We're going
1:27
Speaker 1: to talk about the death of Amy Harwick. I'm Joseph
1:32
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. Some of the toughest
1:41
Speaker 1: scenes that I've had to work have taken place as
1:46
Speaker 1: a result of falls from great height because I don't know,
1:50
Speaker 1: you you look at it and you try to make
1:53
Speaker 1: heads or tails out of what actually happened, because sometimes
1:57
Speaker 1: that traumas just so extensive it's very hard to kind
2:00
Speaker 1: of make your way through everything that you have to analyze.
2:05
Speaker 1: Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crown Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie,
2:10
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you this case is one of those cases.
2:13
Speaker 1: For me, I can only imagine the trouble that the
2:15
Speaker 1: corner had kind of deciphering what they were seeing before them.
2:18
Speaker 1: I have so many questions for you, Joe about this
2:21
Speaker 1: case related to that fall. But let's look a little
2:24
Speaker 1: bit at the life of Amy Harwick. She was a
2:26
Speaker 1: well known sex therapist in Hollywood. She was the ex
2:30
Speaker 1: fiance of Drew Carey, actor and host of The Prices
2:35
Speaker 1: Right And the night Amy Harwick died, she had gone
2:39
Speaker 1: with friends to see a burlesque show and she had
2:43
Speaker 1: got home around one o'clock in the morning, and at
2:46
Speaker 1: that time she texted a friend that said, send me
2:49
Speaker 1: pictures on the green couch. And the location where they
2:53
Speaker 1: had gone there is a green couch, and I guess
2:56
Speaker 1: she wanted to see that her friend got there and
2:57
Speaker 1: she was having a good time. Amy decided to go home.
3:01
Speaker 1: So as Amy went to her third floor apartment, she
3:07
Speaker 1: was attacked. Police theorized that the assailant had been waiting
3:12
Speaker 1: on her for hours. We'll talk a little more in
3:15
Speaker 1: depth in a minute about the scene and what was found.
3:19
Speaker 1: But Joe Amy Harwick was thrown off of the balcony
3:23
Speaker 1: of her third floor apartment. That's about a twenty feet fall.
3:28
Speaker 1: But we also know that she was assaulted and attacked
3:32
Speaker 1: in her apartment. How can, how does? How will this
3:39
Speaker 1: type of investigation be conducted? Because an has to distinguish
3:44
Speaker 1: between the injuries caused by the assault and the injuries
3:49
Speaker 1: caused by the fall. Where do you start? The first
3:53
Speaker 1: place you start is at the scene. You want to
3:55
Speaker 1: see if there's any kind of evidence, you know, at
3:58
Speaker 1: the scene that would give you an indication of, you know,
4:00
Speaker 1: any kind of struggle that had happened there and that
4:03
Speaker 1: certainly you know was the case. There was disruption at
4:07
Speaker 1: the scene, There was evidence that a door had been
4:09
Speaker 1: breached and broken through. There was even blood on the door.
4:13
Speaker 1: They haven't released a lot of information in regards to
4:16
Speaker 1: that blood as to actually who the blood belonged to,
4:19
Speaker 1: but that is significant. It's a significant bit of information.
4:23
Speaker 1: That's something that is totally atypical. You don't expect to
4:25
Speaker 1: walk into a well maintained living area. And from the
4:30
Speaker 1: accounts that are friends have put forward, this apartment is
4:34
Speaker 1: absolutely gorgeous. I mean, it's it's beautiful. If you could
4:37
Speaker 1: see this building, it's it's kind of got a tutor
4:40
Speaker 1: appearance to it, you know, a high pitched roof. It's
4:43
Speaker 1: very well maintained and I'm sure very high end. We
4:47
Speaker 1: talked about the Hollywood Hills people have talked about. Even
4:49
Speaker 1: her bedroom was very striking. You know, she's a sex therapist.
4:53
Speaker 1: I'm sure that it's, you know, very luxurious in all
4:56
Speaker 1: those things. She's putting forth an image in this environment,
5:00
Speaker 1: and you look for things there that are going to
5:02
Speaker 1: give you clues as to what happened. Obviously we know
5:06
Speaker 1: where she wound up. You know, she struck a hard surface,
5:10
Speaker 1: you know, after a twenty foot fall. But how did
5:13
Speaker 1: she come to wind up there? And it's interesting you
5:17
Speaker 1: use the term throne off of the balcony. That's not
5:21
Speaker 1: something that we just you know, conjured up out of
5:23
Speaker 1: the air. That's something that apparently the corner had actually
5:27
Speaker 1: reported to the local media. Thrown, you know, that's that's
5:31
Speaker 1: an active word. That's that's different than fell. You know,
5:35
Speaker 1: he began to think about thrown. That means that someone
5:38
Speaker 1: in fact has to enter into the equation and propel
5:42
Speaker 1: that individual through the air and over the balcony. And
5:45
Speaker 1: that's not something that's easily accomplished. That's something that takes strength.
5:49
Speaker 1: It's something that takes force of will in order to do,
5:53
Speaker 1: and it's something that you have to be purposed at.
5:55
Speaker 1: I would think, you know, there's any number of other
5:57
Speaker 1: places that she could have been thrown, thrown through the floor,
6:00
Speaker 1: through a window, thrown onto the bed, thrown into the
6:03
Speaker 1: baths of I don't know, but thrown over a balcony railing.
6:07
Speaker 1: And when you see the balcony, for folks that haven't
6:10
Speaker 1: seen it, I'll kind of paint a picture for you.
6:12
Speaker 1: It gives you the distinct impression of kind of a
6:15
Speaker 1: larger form of what's referred to as a Juliette balcony,
6:20
Speaker 1: that classic image that we think of Romeo and Juliet
6:23
Speaker 1: highly romanticized. It's not a place you would go out
6:27
Speaker 1: and take coffee and toast in the morning. And there's
6:29
Speaker 1: not a lot of space to it, but it does
6:31
Speaker 1: open into her bedroom and so it's a feature of
6:35
Speaker 1: this home. And so you've got to make it through
6:38
Speaker 1: several levels here, you know, because it's on the third floor,
6:43
Speaker 1: her bedrooms up there on the third floor. You're not
6:46
Speaker 1: going to access it, you know, from the top floor.
6:49
Speaker 1: You have to access it down below. So whoever did
6:54
Speaker 1: this would have had specific knowledge about that area and
6:58
Speaker 1: where she lived. I think that's that's quite fascinating, in
7:03
Speaker 1: a very interesting piece of evidence and evidence of a
7:07
Speaker 1: life that has been lived, that an individual would have
7:10
Speaker 1: to have familiarity with it where to find her in
7:13
Speaker 1: this particular location, and not a lot of people would
7:18
Speaker 1: have been out and about. This happened in the wee hours.
7:22
Speaker 1: It's after midnight at two am. Yeah, it's at two am.
7:25
Speaker 1: And I think one little aside here that's very very
7:28
Speaker 1: important that we can certainly address, has happened on the
7:32
Speaker 1: fifteenth of February. Jackie. She had been out celebrating with
7:36
Speaker 1: these friends at the burlesque show on Valentine's Night. Well,
7:40
Speaker 1: you were talking about how the m E announced to
7:43
Speaker 1: the press that she was thrown off of the balcony.
7:46
Speaker 1: Before we get back to the body and talk about
7:49
Speaker 1: the injuries, how would he have known that? I know
7:52
Speaker 1: it has to do with the angle of where the
7:54
Speaker 1: body is found, the distance from the building. It's good
8:00
Speaker 1: old geometry, trigonometry, all those elmetries that I am really
8:04
Speaker 1: no good at. Yeah, you would think that, well, first off,
8:08
Speaker 1: did you have a witness to it? You know, if
8:10
Speaker 1: that is the font or the wellspring from where that
8:13
Speaker 1: data is coming from. From an investigative standpoint, did somebody
8:17
Speaker 1: physically witness her be projected off of the balcony, then
8:23
Speaker 1: you have to think about, well, at what point did
8:26
Speaker 1: she pitch off of the balcony? Did she make contact
8:30
Speaker 1: with the rail? Is there any evidence that there was
8:32
Speaker 1: any kind of blood transfer on the rail? Is there
8:35
Speaker 1: any evidence that maybe someone had put their hands on
8:38
Speaker 1: the rail, put their hands on her maybe if she's
8:41
Speaker 1: wearing clothing, was the back of her collar clutched with
8:45
Speaker 1: a bloody handprint, or maybe her backside or maybe her ankles.
8:49
Speaker 1: Where you get this idea that maybe she was pitched out.
8:53
Speaker 1: A person that is just falling will not generally have
8:57
Speaker 1: the ability to project themselves. And another thing that you
9:01
Speaker 1: have to factor in here, and you had mentioned this earlier,
9:04
Speaker 1: is that the corner actually stated that she had sustained
9:09
Speaker 1: two types of trauma. She not only sustained blunt force trauma,
9:13
Speaker 1: which is generally associated with the fall and impact injury. Okay,
9:17
Speaker 1: and we can dig into that, but also there was
9:20
Speaker 1: evidence in the soft tissue of her neck that she
9:23
Speaker 1: had been strangled or manually throttled in some way, that
9:28
Speaker 1: there was deep tissue hemorrhage there a significant enough so
9:32
Speaker 1: that the corner made note of it and thought that
9:35
Speaker 1: it was a genuine finding, something that's not associated with
9:39
Speaker 1: the fall. When we look at these types of injuries
9:43
Speaker 1: like this, and people that have listened to bodybags now
9:46
Speaker 1: they know that we talk about things like anti mortem injuries.
9:50
Speaker 1: Before death, we talked about perimortem injuries, and then we
9:54
Speaker 1: talk about post mortem injuries, and you know, just to
9:57
Speaker 1: kind of break that down, if you have an anti
10:00
Speaker 1: mortem injury, that gives you some kind of indication that
10:05
Speaker 1: when the person sustained the injury, which is obviously prior
10:08
Speaker 1: to death, that there's been time for that to begin,
10:11
Speaker 1: at least even at a cellular level. For healing to start, okay,
10:15
Speaker 1: where the traumatized area gives evidence that you know, there's
10:18
Speaker 1: some type of work being done at a cellular level.
10:21
Speaker 1: With perimortem injury, what you'll have and this distinguishes it
10:25
Speaker 1: from post mortem perimortem. You have focal areas of hemorrhage, okay,
10:32
Speaker 1: but there's no evidence of healing. So you know the
10:35
Speaker 1: moment time, that time when the person lost their life,
10:39
Speaker 1: you think about you know, there's probably a lot of
10:41
Speaker 1: fracturing that's associated with this, and then you've got to
10:44
Speaker 1: soft tissue hemorrhage. You begin to look at the sing
10:47
Speaker 1: as logically as you possibly can, think, well, would somebody
10:49
Speaker 1: hurt their neck, particularly like their anterior neck, and when
10:53
Speaker 1: I say anterior, I mean front okay, below the chin.
10:57
Speaker 1: Would they have injured that area in a fall? Well,
11:01
Speaker 1: there's not a likelihood of that. Okay, you can strike
11:03
Speaker 1: something and leave a linear mark. But I think what
11:08
Speaker 1: the emmy saw relative to her neck is possibly and
11:12
Speaker 1: I have no way to prove this at this moment time,
11:15
Speaker 1: but that m may have seen a contused area, a
11:21
Speaker 1: bruised area that may very well may have matched up
11:25
Speaker 1: with a shape that appeared consistent with a human hand.
11:30
Speaker 1: I need to back up on you for just a
11:31
Speaker 1: second job because we are going to talk very in
11:33
Speaker 1: depth about the injuries to the body, but I got
11:36
Speaker 1: to talk about this idea of her being thrown again.
11:40
Speaker 1: The Emmy's going to measure where the body fell, the
11:43
Speaker 1: distance from the building, because usually if it's an accidental fall,
11:49
Speaker 1: if I'm understanding things as I've learned from you and
11:52
Speaker 1: Nancy through the years and her panel of experts, usually
11:56
Speaker 1: if you fall, then you are going to appel yourself
12:01
Speaker 1: is pretty much straight down. It's not going to be
12:05
Speaker 1: ten or fifteen feet or I'm sorry, I'm distance challenged.
12:10
Speaker 1: It's not, you know, but it's not going to be
12:12
Speaker 1: at an angle from the building and at a distance, right, Yeah, yeah,
12:18
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right when an individual free falls, essentially, particularly
12:22
Speaker 1: from the short of a height. And don't get me wrong,
12:25
Speaker 1: I'm not diminishing the trauma that was inflicted upon Amy's body,
12:31
Speaker 1: but when you think about you know, twenty feet is
12:35
Speaker 1: a lot different than two hundred feet. Okay, so it's
12:38
Speaker 1: easier to kind of size this up, if you will.
12:42
Speaker 1: When you begin to fall, you were doing the greatest
12:44
Speaker 1: battle in the world, from a physics standpoint, with one
12:48
Speaker 1: of the most overwhelming forces in nature, and that's gravity.
12:51
Speaker 1: Remember gravity, it's not like you know, when we talk
12:53
Speaker 1: about other elements that factor into death investigation, we're not
12:56
Speaker 1: talking about things like heat and environmental changes. We're talking
12:59
Speaker 1: about a con that's in your universe. Gravity is going
13:01
Speaker 1: to impact us all no pun intended. We know what
13:04
Speaker 1: it's like to fall down. Generally, when we fall our
13:07
Speaker 1: people pass out for instance, say if you're deprived of
13:10
Speaker 1: oxygen and you just kind of fall over, you're going
13:14
Speaker 1: to fall essentially straight down. But when you get this
13:17
Speaker 1: kind of projected event, you have to begin to think about, well,
13:24
Speaker 1: how far away from that leading edge of the balcony
13:28
Speaker 1: would you have had to have kind of been propelled
13:31
Speaker 1: out from in order to wind up this particular distance
13:36
Speaker 1: away or forward of the edge the leading edge of
13:40
Speaker 1: that balcony. And I think that that's probably what they're
13:42
Speaker 1: looking at. It's going to be variable. None of these
13:45
Speaker 1: numbers are static because there's too many variables to factor into.
13:48
Speaker 1: But I think that you can kind of classify by
13:50
Speaker 1: looking at it and think, well, if she was pitched
13:54
Speaker 1: and we don't know what position or body was in
13:56
Speaker 1: that's you know, one of the reasons I was saying earlier,
13:59
Speaker 1: you know, is their evidence she was grabbed by a
14:00
Speaker 1: collar by her backside and just kind of thrown up
14:03
Speaker 1: in the air like a you know, like a bail
14:05
Speaker 1: of hay, or she pitched outward or maybe three to
14:09
Speaker 1: five feet. And how much strength would it take to
14:11
Speaker 1: propel a woman who probably weighed roughly about one and
14:15
Speaker 1: twenty one hundred and twenty five pounds. How far can
14:18
Speaker 1: you toss someone like that? And apparently it was significant
14:23
Speaker 1: enough to get the idea that she was out away
14:27
Speaker 1: from the balcony, that she didn't just simply tip over
14:30
Speaker 1: the edge and fall straight down, you know, with gravity
14:33
Speaker 1: having the totality of the effect relative to her death,
14:36
Speaker 1: this is something where she would have had to have
14:39
Speaker 1: been propelled out from the edge and she fell through
14:43
Speaker 1: the air perhaps I don't know, three to four feet
14:46
Speaker 1: away from the balcony. And that's one of the things
14:49
Speaker 1: that the emmy struggles with. The key here though, and
14:52
Speaker 1: I find this quite interesting, is again back to this
14:55
Speaker 1: idea that they released this information, Jackie. How were they
14:59
Speaker 1: able to draw these conclusions because guess what, when folks
15:04
Speaker 1: first arrived at the scene relative to Amy, and they
15:08
Speaker 1: did the initial assessment. She's still alive. They extricated her
15:15
Speaker 1: from that scene, They extricated her from the ground beneath
15:18
Speaker 1: that balcony and removed her from her home to Cedar
15:22
Speaker 1: SI And I speculatively, how do you make that? Because
15:27
Speaker 1: it is numbers. You know, you'd mentioned trigonometry. It is numbers.
15:31
Speaker 1: When you begin to think about this, how exactly do
15:33
Speaker 1: you come up with a formula when you're absent a body,
15:37
Speaker 1: just as kind of an outside observer. It makes you
15:39
Speaker 1: think that, well, maybe maybe the police had more information,
15:43
Speaker 1: or maybe the m E has more information and we're
15:45
Speaker 1: fully aware of Is there a difference in the injuries
15:50
Speaker 1: from whether you are thrown at this height or fall
15:54
Speaker 1: from this height? Does the force that propelled you had
16:00
Speaker 1: any difference in the impact and the damage it makes
16:03
Speaker 1: to the body. I think that perhaps you have what's
16:07
Speaker 1: referred to as kind of aertial energy that you know,
16:10
Speaker 1: given the mass of your body, when you tip over
16:12
Speaker 1: and fall, you generate a certain a certain velocity, okay,
16:16
Speaker 1: and maybe that could be sped up to a certain
16:19
Speaker 1: degree if you're cast And when I say cast, pitched,
16:24
Speaker 1: thrown propelled, but it's going to be negligible. What's really
16:29
Speaker 1: going to dictate most injuries, and I talk about this
16:33
Speaker 1: with people that I teach my classes, What really dictates
16:37
Speaker 1: the type of injury that you're going to have is
16:40
Speaker 1: the surface that you strike. You think about anybody that
16:43
Speaker 1: falls and they strike, say a pile of leaves, all right,
16:48
Speaker 1: a lot of that energy is going to be absorbed
16:50
Speaker 1: by that soft surface. But if you strike say a
16:53
Speaker 1: poured concrete area and asphalt area, that energy is not
16:57
Speaker 1: going to dissipate as red. It's not going to kind
17:01
Speaker 1: of range out away from the body, is going to
17:03
Speaker 1: be self contained and kind of focal to wherever you
17:06
Speaker 1: make these points of impact. That's one of the ways
17:09
Speaker 1: that we tell many times when people will come up
17:12
Speaker 1: with these stories about, yeah, well my kid he fell
17:15
Speaker 1: and he broke his leg. Okay, You've got some person
17:19
Speaker 1: that comes in an emergency room and they make that
17:20
Speaker 1: comment about, you know, a broken leg on a child
17:24
Speaker 1: or a shoulder or something like that, and well, okay,
17:28
Speaker 1: it's pretty nasty injury. They've got a compound common ute fracture,
17:31
Speaker 1: you've got a bone protruding. Okay, I see that. Maybe
17:36
Speaker 1: they fell and they struck that one location, But how
17:39
Speaker 1: do you get all these other non associated bruises, these
17:43
Speaker 1: points of impact. That means that something else has been
17:46
Speaker 1: going on. So if it's a one off event where
17:50
Speaker 1: say she falls, Amy falls and strikes, say the point
17:54
Speaker 1: of contact, and I don't know this for a fact,
17:56
Speaker 1: but the point of contact is, say the top of
17:59
Speaker 1: her head head, All right, Well, then you will have
18:03
Speaker 1: a focal area of hemorrhage. It'll be probably an underlying
18:07
Speaker 1: fracture that's going to center on the top of her
18:09
Speaker 1: head and it'll kind of extend out. That fracture will
18:13
Speaker 1: extend out. You might even have what's referred to as
18:15
Speaker 1: a depressed skull fracture at that point in time, and
18:19
Speaker 1: it's extending out almost like a cracked eggshell. You wouldn't
18:23
Speaker 1: expect to see multiple fractures that are from multiple strikes.
18:27
Speaker 1: It's a single strike, all right, And according to what
18:31
Speaker 1: the corner is saying, at least at this point in time,
18:34
Speaker 1: she had trauma to both her head and her up
18:37
Speaker 1: her body. So maybe just maybe we're not talking about
18:41
Speaker 1: a single strike to the top of the head. Maybe
18:43
Speaker 1: when she impacted, not only did she impact the side
18:46
Speaker 1: of her head, perhaps, but she also impacted her shoulder,
18:50
Speaker 1: and so these things are going to be kind of
18:52
Speaker 1: married up as the single event, those two single points
18:55
Speaker 1: of contact, and she fell with such ferocity that she
18:59
Speaker 1: sustained fractures, and certainly it was enough to bring about
19:02
Speaker 1: her death. I don't think that the public at large
19:24
Speaker 1: understands that one of the leading causes of death in
19:26
Speaker 1: our country is blunt force trauma when it comes down
19:29
Speaker 1: to traumatic events, because you know, there are more people
19:33
Speaker 1: that are involved in fatal car accidents than just about
19:36
Speaker 1: any other kind of trauma related event that's out there,
19:40
Speaker 1: and so we deal a lot in the medical legal
19:43
Speaker 1: world with blunt force trauma in car accidents in particular.
19:47
Speaker 1: Blunt force trauma is in fact the leading cause of death,
19:50
Speaker 1: but it can be very confusing because the injuries that
19:55
Speaker 1: are sustained with blunt forced trauma are so extensive, and
19:59
Speaker 1: you know, you'll hear people describe them as being massive.
20:03
Speaker 1: I don't know at this point in time, Jackie, if
20:06
Speaker 1: I can say that her injuries are massive, because what
20:09
Speaker 1: we do understand is that when the authorities arrived at
20:12
Speaker 1: the scene, she at least had what's referred to as
20:15
Speaker 1: an agonal respiration. She had some sign of life enough
20:19
Speaker 1: that they tried to resuscitate her and took her to
20:22
Speaker 1: the hospital, and of course she eventually died there at
20:24
Speaker 1: Cedar Sina. Let's look closer at Harwick's injuries. She had
20:30
Speaker 1: injuries to her brain, to her liver, and to her
20:34
Speaker 1: pelvis from her fall. The apartment balcony to the ground
20:39
Speaker 1: was about twenty feet. She also had severe injuries and
20:42
Speaker 1: deep marks on her neck, indicating, as you mentioned earlier,
20:47
Speaker 1: that she had been strangled before she fell. Then you have,
20:51
Speaker 1: as you were talking about before the break, all of
20:55
Speaker 1: these injuries from the fall itself. How does an emmy
21:01
Speaker 1: go about laying those out? I think that one of
21:05
Speaker 1: the things that you have to consider because one of
21:07
Speaker 1: the questions that will come up is, you know, we're
21:11
Speaker 1: talking about these locations of injuries. We talked about the head,
21:15
Speaker 1: when we talked about the liver. You mentioned the liver,
21:17
Speaker 1: and certainly talked about the pelvis. So that gives you
21:20
Speaker 1: an indication as to perhaps how she impacted. If it's
21:26
Speaker 1: a single, one off fall, Let's say that they were
21:28
Speaker 1: able to rule out that she had been You mentioned
21:32
Speaker 1: the liver for instance, liver is a particular area that
21:37
Speaker 1: you can see when somebody has been beaten in the abdomen.
21:41
Speaker 1: If our listeners will essentially find the bottom of your
21:44
Speaker 1: rib cage on the right side of your body kind
21:47
Speaker 1: of snugged up in that area is your liver, all right,
21:51
Speaker 1: and it's not completely protected by the rib cage. It's there,
21:54
Speaker 1: it's exposed, so it's real easy to get to. And
21:56
Speaker 1: I've had cases where people have been kicked to death
21:59
Speaker 1: in liver. Liver can be very fragile. People find this
22:02
Speaker 1: kind of odd. One of the things that we talk
22:04
Speaker 1: about in forensic pathology a medical legal death investigation is
22:08
Speaker 1: that you'll hear pathologists or reed pathologists do an examination
22:14
Speaker 1: of the organs of the body and the liver in particular.
22:17
Speaker 1: They'll refer to as these injuries of the liver as
22:22
Speaker 1: a laceration, but they'll also call it a hepatic fracture.
22:27
Speaker 1: Hepatic having to do with a liver. And when you
22:29
Speaker 1: see the liver and the surface of it after it's
22:31
Speaker 1: sustained an impact injury, it actually has the appearance Jackie
22:35
Speaker 1: of a fracture. It kind of radiates out, it'll be
22:38
Speaker 1: very jagged, and the gut itself will begin to fill
22:41
Speaker 1: up with blood and people will die very very quickly
22:44
Speaker 1: as a result of this, because you know, the liver
22:48
Speaker 1: has a tremendous amount of blood supply, so you begin
22:52
Speaker 1: to clip those little vessels in there, and if you
22:53
Speaker 1: don't get treated, you'll essentially lose blood and you'll die
22:57
Speaker 1: of internal bleeding. But let's think about if this is
23:00
Speaker 1: a one off fall where she's got head injury, she's
23:05
Speaker 1: got a liver injury, and she's got a pelvic injury. Well,
23:09
Speaker 1: how would you sustain that in a single fall? Well,
23:12
Speaker 1: the only thing I can really think about is that
23:15
Speaker 1: if you are falling through the air, you're not tipped
23:20
Speaker 1: toward the top of your head or to the soles
23:23
Speaker 1: of your feet. You're essentially pancaking in at this moment time.
23:27
Speaker 1: So one of two things. You will either essentially imagine
23:31
Speaker 1: somebody doing a belly flop off of a diving board,
23:35
Speaker 1: and we know what kind of impact that creates, And
23:37
Speaker 1: certainly the surface that Amy fell onto was not forgiving
23:40
Speaker 1: that energy as a result of that impact would transfer
23:43
Speaker 1: to these points of contact. You know where she struck
23:46
Speaker 1: the ground with her head and the hepatic region of
23:49
Speaker 1: her abdomen and certainly her pelvic region, so it would
23:53
Speaker 1: have to come about simultaneously. Some people say, well, could
23:56
Speaker 1: she have landed on her back flat and had this happened. Yeah,
24:00
Speaker 1: I suppose that she could have. But you know, the
24:02
Speaker 1: way we're kind of designed with our spine is that
24:06
Speaker 1: often equated to you know, when we curl up, you know,
24:09
Speaker 1: we kind of almost take on a tortoise like appearance.
24:12
Speaker 1: You know, our spine creates this kind of shell like
24:15
Speaker 1: position for us. It would be very difficult, I think,
24:17
Speaker 1: to generate that kind of injury to the liver. My
24:20
Speaker 1: money would either be she would strike face down or
24:24
Speaker 1: perhaps on her right side, so that you've got involvement
24:28
Speaker 1: with the pelvis, the hepatic region, and of course the
24:32
Speaker 1: head injury in all of these these specific areas. You know,
24:36
Speaker 1: I talked about how vascular the liver is, and you've
24:39
Speaker 1: got tons of tiny vessels in there that cause you
24:42
Speaker 1: to blete out into the gut. What do you have
24:43
Speaker 1: in the pelvis? Oh my gosh, Well, there's all kinds
24:46
Speaker 1: of vessels in there. And the pelvis is an odd bone.
24:51
Speaker 1: When you break it, it's oddly shaved, it's an irregular bone.
24:55
Speaker 1: And so it fractures in these odd kind of ways,
24:58
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of les in there, and most
25:02
Speaker 1: obvious you have the femoral artery is rooted up in
25:06
Speaker 1: there and it kind of passes through what you call
25:08
Speaker 1: a fram and a framan is a ten dollar word
25:11
Speaker 1: that physicians and anatomus to use for a hole in
25:14
Speaker 1: the bone, and it passes through these areas through there,
25:18
Speaker 1: and so the fmoral artery can be clipped, and if
25:22
Speaker 1: that happens, that's deadly. And then not to mention what's
25:26
Speaker 1: going on in the skull with a closed head injury,
25:29
Speaker 1: again very vascular region, you begin to bleed out. Essentially,
25:33
Speaker 1: seepage is taking place and blood will kind of leech
25:37
Speaker 1: out into those soft tissues around the brain within the brain,
25:41
Speaker 1: and the brain begins to swell and the person eventually dies.
25:46
Speaker 1: So you take all of those injuries that we have
25:49
Speaker 1: just enumerated the possibility of, and then when you finally
25:56
Speaker 1: receive Amy's remains to take a look at them, they've
25:59
Speaker 1: got a devil of a job on their hands because
26:01
Speaker 1: they begin to look at this extensive trauma that she
26:04
Speaker 1: sustained to her torso, but yet you still have the
26:07
Speaker 1: neck hang on, Joe, I got another question about the liver.
26:11
Speaker 1: Is it likely or possible that she was beaten and
26:17
Speaker 1: that is part of what gave her these injuries to
26:20
Speaker 1: her liver, or is it likely those injuries were just
26:23
Speaker 1: caused from the fall. That's an excellent question in that
26:27
Speaker 1: you know, I talked about blunt force trauma and car
26:30
Speaker 1: accidents a little while ago, and I'd say, I know
26:34
Speaker 1: that there'll be debate about this if people hear this,
26:36
Speaker 1: but one of the organs that's really impacted by blunt
26:40
Speaker 1: force trauma in cars many times is the liver. It's
26:44
Speaker 1: so close to the surface and again, if you find
26:48
Speaker 1: the bottom of your ribcage on the right hand side,
26:50
Speaker 1: it's just tucked right there. And it's essentially the largest
26:53
Speaker 1: organ in the body. It's massive, and it's got a
26:56
Speaker 1: lot of surface area and again a lot of vessel
27:00
Speaker 1: running passing through it. When you have a traumatized liver,
27:05
Speaker 1: the surgeons that can get to the liver that begin
27:08
Speaker 1: to repair it have got a devil of the time
27:10
Speaker 1: because there are all these little microfractures that you get
27:13
Speaker 1: in there. You've got these little beaty vessels that have
27:15
Speaker 1: been ruptured many times. The surgeons will go back and say, well,
27:18
Speaker 1: we're still leaking blood into the gut. We've got to
27:20
Speaker 1: figure out what the origin of this is. I could
27:22
Speaker 1: do it, it's my pay grade. I'm not bright enough
27:25
Speaker 1: to do that. So my hats off to trauma surgeons
27:27
Speaker 1: that are able to do that to assess it. To
27:31
Speaker 1: your point, though, I have seen people that have been
27:34
Speaker 1: kicked to death in the abdomen, and that point of
27:37
Speaker 1: impact many times has been the liver. It's an interesting
27:42
Speaker 1: proposition when you begin to think about this that you've
27:46
Speaker 1: already got a young lady that, according to the corner,
27:49
Speaker 1: has got trauma to her neck. You begin to think, well, gee,
27:54
Speaker 1: you know what other kind of trauma did she sustain?
27:58
Speaker 1: Because there is an ear witness to this event that
28:02
Speaker 1: actually heard what they described as bodies, not singular, but
28:07
Speaker 1: by these falling to the ground. There's a struggle going on,
28:12
Speaker 1: and it's within earshot of a roommate and they've heard this,
28:17
Speaker 1: and you begin to think, okay, well you're saying there's
28:20
Speaker 1: a struggle, there's apparently an associated scream that apparently emanated
28:27
Speaker 1: from amy. Well what else going on here? You know?
28:30
Speaker 1: How many how many layers are we going to have
28:32
Speaker 1: to peel back here to try to understand. Many times, though,
28:36
Speaker 1: when you see abdominal trauma, the abdomen is not necessarily
28:42
Speaker 1: going to be opened up. It's not like a gunshot
28:44
Speaker 1: woman where you've got an open wound, but overlying the
28:48
Speaker 1: hepatic region, you know, that area that I talked about,
28:51
Speaker 1: this arrival of the right rib cage at the base.
28:54
Speaker 1: Many times you'll see an overlying contusion. Okay, you'll see
28:58
Speaker 1: an area that is read and irritated, are possibly even bruised.
29:03
Speaker 1: And you can track this when we open at autopsy
29:08
Speaker 1: and reflect back that tissue that's overlying the liver. You'll
29:12
Speaker 1: see on the backside of the wall of the abdomen
29:15
Speaker 1: there'll be a big area of hemorrhage right there overlying
29:19
Speaker 1: that area. And then of course it'll be lying right
29:21
Speaker 1: on top of a liver that's been traumatized. And there's
29:25
Speaker 1: a term that we use for this when the liver
29:27
Speaker 1: is like, are the spling too? You hear this a
29:30
Speaker 1: lot is a term called maceration, and it just it's
29:34
Speaker 1: a fancy term for saying that the organ has been
29:37
Speaker 1: beaten to bits. It's been almost pulpified, you know, I
29:41
Speaker 1: don't know that that's necessarily the case in n Amy's case,
29:43
Speaker 1: but she apparently sustained significant abdominal trauma. We know that.
29:48
Speaker 1: The trick here, though, I think for the pathologist is
29:51
Speaker 1: going to be able to delineate the order at which
29:54
Speaker 1: this occurred and when it occurred, because that this person
29:56
Speaker 1: is going to be asked these questions if this case
29:59
Speaker 1: goes to trial, they will be asked, what order, doctor,
30:03
Speaker 1: did these injuries take place in? You know, you're saying
30:06
Speaker 1: you've got trauma to the neck. It looks like there's
30:09
Speaker 1: a strangulation that's going on. Are you sure that this
30:11
Speaker 1: happened before she went over the balcony or did going
30:14
Speaker 1: over the balcony cause this injury? Or was this something
30:17
Speaker 1: that happened before she went over the balcony? Keep going, Joe,
30:22
Speaker 1: how are they going to do do? It's like reading a
30:24
Speaker 1: mystery novel. Don't leave me, ay, And how are they
30:26
Speaker 1: going to know this? It's going to be very difficult
30:30
Speaker 1: to know it because you've got two traumatic events that,
30:35
Speaker 1: by their own admission, the corner saying that happened in
30:38
Speaker 1: a perimortem state. Okay, that it happened during the throes
30:42
Speaker 1: of death. And that's what's going to make this case
30:44
Speaker 1: so difficult. I think for them to try to describe
30:49
Speaker 1: the forensic pathologists that has to sit on the stand,
30:52
Speaker 1: are they going to be able to say definitively? You know.
30:55
Speaker 1: One of the things that we talked about with Nancy
30:57
Speaker 1: he began to have forensic experts that come up on
31:00
Speaker 1: the stand. You never talk in absolutes when you're on
31:03
Speaker 1: the stand, you say absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt,
31:06
Speaker 1: you know this is what happened, because that's how you
31:09
Speaker 1: get into big trouble. You have to make comments like
31:13
Speaker 1: within a degree of scientific certainty. And so I don't
31:17
Speaker 1: know that they'll be able to say definitively that they
31:22
Speaker 1: can give you the order in which these occurred, unless
31:26
Speaker 1: they're seeing something microscopically, you know. Again, I go back
31:29
Speaker 1: to anti mortem injuries and the perimortem injuries. Remember, we've
31:34
Speaker 1: got an earwitness to this. It's going to be real key.
31:37
Speaker 1: I think at least that when they have this ear
31:42
Speaker 1: witness to this event, can they measure out the time
31:47
Speaker 1: What was the amount of time that we're talking about
31:49
Speaker 1: in linear time? You know, from you know this moment
31:52
Speaker 1: time to the last sound that you heard, how long
31:55
Speaker 1: did that take to happen? And then it based upon
31:59
Speaker 1: that because you've got a baseline at that point. Scientifically,
32:01
Speaker 1: you go back to the pathologist and say, okay, doc,
32:04
Speaker 1: are these injuries consistent with what you're seeing here? You know,
32:08
Speaker 1: demonstrate it on the autopsy table, and it's going to
32:11
Speaker 1: be I think at least it's going to be a
32:13
Speaker 1: point of contention if this thing comes to trial. Amy
32:17
Speaker 1: Harwick's cause of death was listed as blunt force trauma.
32:22
Speaker 1: If you have a fall like this, and I'm not
32:26
Speaker 1: talking about being thrown, I'm just talking about a fall,
32:29
Speaker 1: would it still be listed as blunt force trauma. There's
32:33
Speaker 1: the old joke that people make about the fall. That's
32:37
Speaker 1: not what kills you. It's a sudden stop, And this
32:40
Speaker 1: is actually true. There's truth in that bit of morbid humor.
32:43
Speaker 1: And many times, particularly with motor vehicle accidents, there's a
32:48
Speaker 1: kind of a way that in medical legal death investigation
32:50
Speaker 1: we frame these things that are called rapid deceleration injuries,
32:54
Speaker 1: and sometimes that's associated with things like striking a fixed
32:57
Speaker 1: object as you're moving through space, like in a car.
33:01
Speaker 1: If you're not belted in a car, and you slam
33:04
Speaker 1: into a bridge abutment. Okay, well the car stopped moving.
33:10
Speaker 1: Your body essentially stopped moving when you struck the steering
33:13
Speaker 1: wheel or the windshield. But guess what, your organs are
33:17
Speaker 1: still moving. People don't think about that for a middlesecond.
33:20
Speaker 1: Your organs are still moving in your body and they
33:22
Speaker 1: get ripped to shreds as this weird event that takes place.
33:26
Speaker 1: And I think that you can have this kind of
33:28
Speaker 1: event occur with a fall as well. The trick is
33:33
Speaker 1: being able to explain this in terms that a layman
33:37
Speaker 1: will be able to understand it, particularly in a chord,
33:39
Speaker 1: because that's where this really matters. How do you frame
33:42
Speaker 1: this so that people understand that it was in fact
33:45
Speaker 1: the fall that killed her as opposed to this manual
33:49
Speaker 1: stringulation event, because there are going to be questions that
33:51
Speaker 1: are going to arise relative to that. And it seems
33:54
Speaker 1: like you've got all of the information here, but sometimes
33:56
Speaker 1: in cases you get so it's such a glut of
33:59
Speaker 1: information that it can be confusing, particularly for the layman
34:02
Speaker 1: that occupied the jury box. You know they're going to
34:05
Speaker 1: have to be able to make good decision based on
34:07
Speaker 1: this information that's coming to them from the medical examining
34:10
Speaker 1: the investigators in cases involving someone like Amy Hardwick, she
34:35
Speaker 1: led a very interesting life and came in contact with
34:38
Speaker 1: a lot of people that brought her into the lens
34:41
Speaker 1: of the public. She was strikingly beautiful and it was
34:45
Speaker 1: a sex therapist. And so when you see her life
34:50
Speaker 1: coming to an end in such a violent way, you
34:54
Speaker 1: begin to think about things, Well, who would be on
34:56
Speaker 1: your short list as far as suspects. You know, who
35:00
Speaker 1: who is she come in contact with? Is there a
35:01
Speaker 1: history of somebody that's out there that's lurking about in
35:05
Speaker 1: her life, that's harassing her, that's making her life pure health,
35:09
Speaker 1: that has left her in fear or the restraining orders,
35:13
Speaker 1: And as investigators, that's one of the first places you're
35:15
Speaker 1: going to go to because where she died is not
35:18
Speaker 1: a place prone to this kind of violence. It almost
35:22
Speaker 1: appears like she was targeted in some way. Jackie Well,
35:26
Speaker 1: that is exactly what investigators suspect happen. In fact, Joe
35:31
Speaker 1: Amy Harwick told family and friends at one point, if
35:35
Speaker 1: anything ever happens to me, it's him, and that him
35:40
Speaker 1: is an ex boyfriend. His name is Gareth purse House.
35:46
Speaker 1: He has now been charged with murder and residential burglary
35:50
Speaker 1: with special circumstance allegations of lying in wait, and that
35:54
Speaker 1: comes from the fact that police believe that he was
35:58
Speaker 1: waiting for Harwick for hours. Now when police were called,
36:04
Speaker 1: they were called by her downstairs roommate. He tells police
36:10
Speaker 1: that he woke up and heard something, not really sure
36:14
Speaker 1: what he heard, He just assumed that it was Harwick
36:16
Speaker 1: coming home from her evening out. Then, he says, he
36:20
Speaker 1: goes back to sleep and then is woken up by
36:23
Speaker 1: a woman's screams and he was able to tell that
36:28
Speaker 1: the screams were coming from above him and that it
36:31
Speaker 1: was Amy. He tried to find his phone but couldn't,
36:34
Speaker 1: so he couldn't call the police. He tried to get
36:35
Speaker 1: upstairs and couldn't and he ended up having to climb
36:38
Speaker 1: a fence to get to a neighbor to be able
36:41
Speaker 1: to get her some help. And when the police came,
36:44
Speaker 1: that's when they found her Amy Harwick, on the ground
36:49
Speaker 1: after being tossed from her balcony. Now in the apartment,
36:54
Speaker 1: there were several things that were found. She had a
36:57
Speaker 1: rosary and it was bro and the beads were scattered
37:01
Speaker 1: in multiple rooms of her apartment, which tells us that
37:05
Speaker 1: this assault happened basically all over the apartment. And then
37:10
Speaker 1: there was another very potent piece of evidence that was found,
37:16
Speaker 1: and that was a syringe full of nicotine. How do
37:21
Speaker 1: you get a syringeful of nicotine when we know that
37:26
Speaker 1: Harrowick did not do drugs, did not smoke. This obviously
37:31
Speaker 1: was not hers, but brought allegedly, police say, by hers house. Yeah,
37:37
Speaker 1: you know, a few years ago, we would have been
37:39
Speaker 1: scratching our head a lot more over this. You know,
37:41
Speaker 1: the presence of this nicotine filled syringe is what the
37:45
Speaker 1: police have kind of identified this as. But nowadays, where
37:50
Speaker 1: you have people that are vaping, they're vaping liquids, and
37:53
Speaker 1: you know, nicotine is a component, it's not that difficult
37:56
Speaker 1: to get. The question is how was it acquired from
38:01
Speaker 1: where was it acquired and how was it drawn up?
38:04
Speaker 1: Because they specifically say syringe, which means that more than
38:08
Speaker 1: likely that there is a needle that's associated with this.
38:11
Speaker 1: And one of the things it's quite fascinating with this
38:14
Speaker 1: is that the syringe was actually located out on the balcony.
38:19
Speaker 1: You know, the balcony that we've mentioned now several times.
38:23
Speaker 1: That she went over the side on why would it
38:26
Speaker 1: be there was the perpetrator attempting to administer this to her,
38:31
Speaker 1: and Jackie, you've mentioned the broken rosary beads. The beads
38:36
Speaker 1: led from what are being called her TV room, through
38:39
Speaker 1: her bedroom and again out onto the balcony. So you've
38:43
Speaker 1: almost got this trail of breadcrumbs, if you will, evidentiary
38:47
Speaker 1: breadcrumbs that are giving you an indication of what may
38:50
Speaker 1: have happened. But let's get back to that nicotine syringe
38:53
Speaker 1: of your purpose to use nicotine in order to do
38:57
Speaker 1: harm to an individual. I think that you're going to
39:00
Speaker 1: need an injection of about sixty milligrams for an adult
39:04
Speaker 1: that you know might weigh about one hundred and twenty pounds.
39:07
Speaker 1: And you know what kind of effect Well, first off,
39:10
Speaker 1: it's with a concentration of nicotine. It's going to blow
39:13
Speaker 1: your your blood pressure up through through the roof and
39:17
Speaker 1: it will cause you to have a cardiac potentially a
39:20
Speaker 1: cardiac event. You know, it's kind of certainly to my
39:23
Speaker 1: way of thinking, this is certainly kind of an interesting
39:26
Speaker 1: way of going about taking somebody's life. Nicotine is something
39:30
Speaker 1: that we do in fact screen for it's in a
39:32
Speaker 1: standard panel. You hear a lot, you know how many
39:35
Speaker 1: times if we talked about on Nancy Show, where they'll say, well,
39:37
Speaker 1: it's pending toxicology. Well, nicotine is one of the things
39:41
Speaker 1: that some offices actually screened for in their standard panel.
39:45
Speaker 1: And you say, why do you need to know nicotine, Well,
39:47
Speaker 1: it gets to the lifestyle of the individual. What are
39:49
Speaker 1: they engaged in, you know, what are they taking into
39:51
Speaker 1: their body? And Amy had no history of cigarette use,
39:55
Speaker 1: didn't have any history of vaping. She was not a druggie,
40:00
Speaker 1: didn't use drugs, and she's also a teetotaler as well.
40:02
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's been mentioned, but she didn't
40:05
Speaker 1: imbibe with alcohol. So apparently she led a pretty clean
40:09
Speaker 1: lifestyle was relative to what she was going to be
40:12
Speaker 1: putting into her body. To that point, the corner has
40:15
Speaker 1: not indicated at all that there was any nicotine found
40:20
Speaker 1: in her post examination, certainly in her toxicology, but it
40:24
Speaker 1: does go to a bigger issue here. That means for
40:27
Speaker 1: me at least that whoever this perpetrator is, they should
40:31
Speaker 1: up prepared. They showed up to do harm. And if
40:35
Speaker 1: you're aiming to do harm and you want to use nicotine,
40:41
Speaker 1: which I'm not going to say it's something it's an
40:43
Speaker 1: exotic toxin, you know, some exotic fish that you've drawn
40:49
Speaker 1: some kind of toxic substance from to inject somebody where
40:52
Speaker 1: it's not exotic like that, but it's atypical. That indicates
40:57
Speaker 1: to me that you've done some study about this, that
41:01
Speaker 1: you've kind of planned this out. Well, Joe, hang on,
41:04
Speaker 1: you wouldn't if you brought a syringe with you filled
41:07
Speaker 1: with nicotine. You're not intending to use that to get
41:12
Speaker 1: high or experience some kind of euphoria. That's not what
41:16
Speaker 1: that would do to your body, right lord, No, No, No,
41:21
Speaker 1: with lethal concentration of nicotine is deadly. I mean it's
41:25
Speaker 1: it's deadly. I don't know for whatever purpose you would
41:27
Speaker 1: use liquified nicotine for drawn up in a syringe. Now, obviously,
41:32
Speaker 1: you know we've talked about vaping where people want that
41:35
Speaker 1: boost of nicotine. Because of nicotine, one of the addictive
41:37
Speaker 1: factors in is it kind of gives you that euphoric
41:40
Speaker 1: feeling when you take it on in your system, but
41:42
Speaker 1: that's in smaller dosages. When you're talking to a bump
41:47
Speaker 1: of something like sixty milligrams and again, they haven't really
41:50
Speaker 1: released how much was found. But when you start to
41:54
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, an injection of that amount of
41:57
Speaker 1: bolus that size, I think that it would give a
42:00
Speaker 1: reasonable person pause to think, why in the world would
42:03
Speaker 1: the syringe be in Amy's home And she doesn't have
42:07
Speaker 1: a nicotine habit. It's not like I don't think she's
42:10
Speaker 1: juicing up her nonexistent vapes that she doesn't possess, So
42:15
Speaker 1: how did it miraculously appear there? And that's a huge question. Well,
42:20
Speaker 1: when you begin to think about pure nicotine, the only
42:23
Speaker 1: thing I can think of is that you're either trying
42:25
Speaker 1: to incapacitate them some way to the point where they
42:29
Speaker 1: can't fend you off, which would be an odd selection,
42:34
Speaker 1: I would think, or you're trying to kill them. We
42:37
Speaker 1: know that Amy Harwick and Gareth purse House dated for
42:41
Speaker 1: quite some time. We also know that when they broke up,
42:46
Speaker 1: he began to stalk her. He began to harass her.
42:52
Speaker 1: Reviews of her business and her practice began showing up
42:58
Speaker 1: online very detrimental, and she was worried about that. And
43:04
Speaker 1: again I mentioned earlier she'd had told people, She had
43:07
Speaker 1: told friends and family that if something happened to her
43:11
Speaker 1: it was him, And in fact, investigators saw that mister
43:16
Speaker 1: Pearce House had similar scratches and bruises on him, and
43:22
Speaker 1: his DNA was found at Amy Hardwick's home. Now, of
43:27
Speaker 1: course they had been dating for quite some time. Still,
43:31
Speaker 1: how long it had been since he had been at
43:34
Speaker 1: the home. So how is that going to play in? Joe?
43:37
Speaker 1: I think that it would like to stay down south.
43:39
Speaker 1: That dog won't hunt, I think is what that comes
43:42
Speaker 1: down to, because you know there's been separation. My god,
43:44
Speaker 1: she had a restraining or on this guy. I'm not
43:47
Speaker 1: saying that there could not be residual DNA in her dwelling.
43:51
Speaker 1: But if you've got kind of a robust deposits of
43:55
Speaker 1: his DNA in that environment, and he's got a restraining
43:58
Speaker 1: order and she is stating unequivocally that she's afraid of him,
44:04
Speaker 1: you know, how did it wind up in the apartment.
44:07
Speaker 1: You talked about how they had charged him with this
44:10
Speaker 1: idea of laying in weight. If he's laying in weight
44:13
Speaker 1: at that moment in time, has he been visiting her
44:16
Speaker 1: at other times? You know? To are there depositions there
44:21
Speaker 1: within that apartment of his DNA that would give an
44:25
Speaker 1: investigator pause to think, well, maybe he's been in this
44:29
Speaker 1: dwelling when she's not here and kind of wandering around,
44:32
Speaker 1: if you will. But yeah, I think that that would
44:35
Speaker 1: be very difficult because that relationship has been ended for
44:41
Speaker 1: some time and there was a lot of violent acting
44:44
Speaker 1: out with this. I think that there's even a couple
44:46
Speaker 1: of accounts where he may have pushed drive a vehicle
44:49
Speaker 1: and all these other things and menacing and threatening and
44:53
Speaker 1: you know, all that sort of stalking behavior that goes
44:56
Speaker 1: on many times with these kinds of cases. So from me,
45:00
Speaker 1: I think that that would be very, very difficult to
45:03
Speaker 1: try to say, well, yeah, his DNA. I mean, you
45:06
Speaker 1: can say it, you know, but that doesn't mean that,
45:08
Speaker 1: you know, you're going to get a jury to buy
45:10
Speaker 1: into that line of logic. Gareth purse House has been
45:14
Speaker 1: charged with murder and first degree residential burglary. Additionally, he
45:19
Speaker 1: has been charged with special circumstance allegation of lying in wait.
45:24
Speaker 1: A judge has ruled that this case can go forward again,
45:28
Speaker 1: this case has not been adjudicated. Purse House is innocent
45:33
Speaker 1: until proven guilty by court of law. If he has
45:36
Speaker 1: found guilty however, of these charges he could be sentenced
45:39
Speaker 1: to life in prison without the possibility of role. I'm
45:46
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybags