Latest / Brian Thomas / Todd McMurtry, Sarah Heringer's lawyer - Lawsuit vs the city

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Todd McMurtry, Sarah Heringer's lawyer - Lawsuit vs the city · Brian Thomas

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  Speaker 1: Here at fifty five k rs DE talk station, very
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Happy Friday teen. The phone lines are open. Sadly, Joe's
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: trying to get in touch with Todd McMurty, the attorney
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  Speaker 1: for Sarah Herringer in her recently filed lawsuit on the
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  Speaker 1: anniversary of the horrific stabbing of her husband in there
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  Speaker 1: over the Rhine apartment, you know. And I've read and
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  Speaker 1: followed Sarah Heringer's post on Facebook. She's very emotional, obviously,
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  Speaker 1: she's dealing with the you know, the healing process and
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  Speaker 1: really writes some very beautiful Facebook posts that the devastation
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  Speaker 1: cannot be understated, but could it have been avoided? And
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  Speaker 1: I had you know, thanks and I will give huge
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  Speaker 1: props the camera night over the inquiry for breaking down.
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  Speaker 1: He's read the lawsuit and broke it down into its
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  Speaker 1: the facts and information that's in it, and they've got
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  Speaker 1: some pretty horrific details in it is very concerning. And
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  Speaker 1: so it was June twenty fourth, that's when Patrick Herning
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  Speaker 1: was murdered, died in his wife's arms, Sarah Heringer. So
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  Speaker 1: the lawsuit was just filed you just a couple of
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  Speaker 1: days ago against the City of Cincinnati and the allegations
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  Speaker 1: are the police department, and this is the concerning part,
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  Speaker 1: for the most part, have an unwritten custom and practice
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  Speaker 1: to under police, underinvestigate, and under report crime. And that
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  Speaker 1: underreport crime becomes really important here in a moment, as
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  Speaker 1: I found out, because we know, at least from anecdotal
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  Speaker 1: evidence and from folks like Signal ninety nine, that police
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  Speaker 1: are not I think they're under a mean perhaps an
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  Speaker 1: unwritten policy to make the city look a little bit,
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  Speaker 1: a little bit better. So if someone maybe is could
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  Speaker 1: be charged with rape, perhaps they under categorize it and
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  Speaker 1: maybe make it as simple assault or something. I'm just
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  Speaker 1: throwing up a made up example in the lawsuit. It
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  Speaker 1: ain't a made up example. So we got Mordisha Black,
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  Speaker 1: the guy that charged with killing Patrick Harringer. He was
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  Speaker 1: one at the time this lag. He had cut off
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  Speaker 1: his ankle monitor while he was on a post release control.
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  Speaker 1: I call that probation. Somebody to ankle monitor anyway. He
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  Speaker 1: was convicted in twenty sixteen of Flonius assault. He beat
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  Speaker 1: a man on Fountain Square. So let out in February
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  Speaker 1: twenty twenty twenty five. While he has been after he
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  Speaker 1: served whatever time he was told to serve and given
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  Speaker 1: the ankle monitor. He cuts his ankle monitor off February
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  Speaker 1: And after he cut off his ankle monitor, he left
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  Speaker 1: the halfway house, so that at point that point in
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  Speaker 1: time a warrant was issued for his arrest. Now in lawsuit,
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  Speaker 1: they claimed the Cincinnati police failed to even look for
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  Speaker 1: him despite his involvement in multiple crimes. Now you know,
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  Speaker 1: and I wrote down, well, what obligation did the police
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  Speaker 1: to have actually to go out and specifically look for
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  Speaker 1: one human being in and among the hundreds, if not
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  Speaker 1: thousands of potential people out there that have warrants out
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  Speaker 1: or that are otherwise people wanting to find them. So
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  Speaker 1: with that we find out exactly why. April sixth of
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  Speaker 1: twenty five, two months before he murdered Patrick Heronder, mister
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  Speaker 1: Mordisha Black's girlfriend reported that she had kicked him out
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  Speaker 1: because he was living with her, but he then broke
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  Speaker 1: back into her home and she feared for her life. Interesting.
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  Speaker 1: Now here's where Cameron Knight summarized what's in the complaint.
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  Speaker 1: The police who investigated minimized the seriousness of the system
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  Speaker 1: of the situation by classifying the incident as a domestic
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  Speaker 1: disturbance rather than a domestic violence incident, despite the physical
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  Speaker 1: threats that were alleged to have happened. Now there's your
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  Speaker 1: little red flag there, and let me pause for a moment.
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  Speaker 1: To my friends on the Cincinnati Police Department, I am
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  Speaker 1: not being critical of you. You know, I have your backs.
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  Speaker 1: God love my sister for serving our community for twenty
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  Speaker 1: five years. But I think this goes more to what
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  Speaker 1: protocols and policies are in place, the directives given to
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  Speaker 1: the police department. So pause on that note, or loon
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  Speaker 1: moved back over now. The suit says that if they
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  Speaker 1: had classified this offense as a domestic violence, it would
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  Speaker 1: have been mandatory for the officers to go look for
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  Speaker 1: Mordisha Black, and so that sort of addresses my prior
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  Speaker 1: concern about, you know what obligation. You know, where are
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  Speaker 1: we on the spectrum there. The officers also, according to
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  Speaker 1: the cut to the complaint, failed to upgrade the record
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  Speaker 1: system to reflect that Black was staying at that Vine
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  Speaker 1: Street home with his girlfriend. That would have been nice,
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  Speaker 1: since he isn't at the Halfway House anymore. Court of
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  Speaker 1: lawsuit in quotes, CPD never attempted to serve Black at
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  Speaker 1: the Vine Street address. They never even looked for him there.
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  Speaker 1: They'll have to prove these allegations in court. Again, this
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  Speaker 1: is a complaint, and sometimes the allegations in the complaint
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  Speaker 1: aren't true, but these are quite disturbing, most notably given
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  Speaker 1: how long this guy was out without his ankle monitor.
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  Speaker 1: June third. June third, that would be the day before
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  Speaker 1: the murder, an employee of Downtown Hotel called nine to
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  Speaker 1: one to report that a man had been maceed and robbed.
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  Speaker 1: The lawsuit states that that man was Mordisha Black. Officers
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  Speaker 1: responded to that incident spoke with Mordisha Black, but he
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  Speaker 1: gave a false name, and the other guy I apparently
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  Speaker 1: said he didn't want to press charges. So I can
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  Speaker 1: understand them maybe letting him go, but giving a false name.
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  Speaker 1: I guess I'm wondering about identification. The responding officers a
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  Speaker 1: claim in the complaint did not generate any official incident report,
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  Speaker 1: did not verify mister Black's identity, did not run his
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  Speaker 1: information through any law enforcement database, and did not investigate
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  Speaker 1: the apparent felony offenses. Now, according to the reporting and
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  Speaker 1: the complaint, they argue that this lack of action is
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  Speaker 1: in direct violation of the Cincinnati Police Department's policy, which
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  Speaker 1: requires officers to complete an accurate report for all complaints
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  Speaker 1: of criminal activity quote, regardless of the victim's desire to prosecute. Now,
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  Speaker 1: they claim had the responding officers verified his Black's identity,
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  Speaker 1: a routine step required by the police part and policy,
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  Speaker 1: they would have discovered Black's outstanding parole violation warrant. Again,
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  Speaker 1: that's the allegation in the complaint. Mordisia Black would have
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  Speaker 1: therefore been arrested on the night of June third, twenty
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  Speaker 1: twenty five, and Patrick Herringer would not have been murdered
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  Speaker 1: the following day. Now pivoting Over says the lawsuit states
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  Speaker 1: have to have per vault. Mayor said in the aftermath
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  Speaker 1: of mister Harringer's death that the city law enforcement should
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  Speaker 1: have been notified immediately when this guy cut off his ankle. Monitor.
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  Speaker 1: Lawsuit argues that law enforcement was in fact made aware
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  Speaker 1: quote and then CIC warrant was entered for Black's arrest
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  Speaker 1: was visible to officers on each of the three times
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  Speaker 1: they interacted with Black between February and June of twenty
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  Speaker 1: twenty five. According to the court documents, Sarah Harringer said
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  Speaker 1: she met with then Chief three so So Thiji, who said
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  Speaker 1: the police had no idea there was an arrest warrant
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  Speaker 1: for Black. Quote. This statement cannot be true in the complaint,
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  Speaker 1: as each interaction the police had with Black would have
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  Speaker 1: resulted or revealed rather the outstanding NCIC warrant. The city
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  Speaker 1: knowingly turned a blind eyed the nick NCICE warrants and
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  Speaker 1: chose not to pursue the outstanding warrants. Well, let us pau.
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  Speaker 1: You want to pause, Joe, just go ahead and do it.
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  Speaker 1: I guess who is on the line, Todd McMurty, Welcome
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  Speaker 1: to the fifty five KOSE Morning Show. I'm so pleased
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  Speaker 1: Joe's able to get you on the line, and thank
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  Speaker 1: you for your time in with my listeners today. I
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  Speaker 1: was just going through the allegations as reported by camera
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  Speaker 1: and Knight in the complaint, and I guess I get
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  Speaker 1: it now, you know, from attorney's perspective. I was thinking, well,
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  Speaker 1: isn't the city usually immune from liability and what level
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  Speaker 1: of obligation did the police have. Let's talk about this, Todd,
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  Speaker 1: thanks again for joining the show. The the obligation that
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  Speaker 1: police had a duty to look for Mordisha Black can
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  Speaker 1: you explain how we reached how you reach that conclusion
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  Speaker 1: as a legend the complaint, sir.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you. I appreciate your having me on
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  Speaker 2: your show. What we allege in the complaint is a
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  Speaker 2: violation of the you know, United States Constitution, and that
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  Speaker 2: is that as Americans, we all have the right to life, liberty,
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  Speaker 2: and property. And when the as we a legend the complaint,
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  Speaker 2: the city of Cincinnati has a custom and practice of
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  Speaker 2: underreporting crime, and that that custom and practice led to
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  Speaker 2: a situation where Patrick Herringer was murdered. And it's just
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  Speaker 2: a it's it's a it's a what we call a
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  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three cause of action for violation of the
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  Speaker 2: constitutional rights.
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  Speaker 1: Well, and that that that pattern that I just had
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  Speaker 1: mentioned the idea that they had a domestic violence incident
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  Speaker 1: or shunted like a domestic violence inc and then police
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  Speaker 1: showed up because Mordisha Black's girlfriend reported that she had
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  Speaker 1: to kick him out of the house, he broke him
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  Speaker 1: back in, she feared for a life. They show up
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  Speaker 1: and they classified it sort of as a lesser offense,
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  Speaker 1: minimized it the seriousness of the situation by classifying it
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  Speaker 1: as a domestic disturbance rather than domestic violence, despite the
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  Speaker 1: physical threats. But had they gone with the upper charge,
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  Speaker 1: the domestic violence, it would have been mandatory for them
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  Speaker 1: to go look for him. They have a higher obligation
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  Speaker 1: when you're dealing with a charge of violence, then.
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  Speaker 2: Correct, that's what we assert. I think that that is
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  Speaker 2: a sound legal argument.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'm reluctant to be critical of law enforcement. It's
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  Speaker 1: tough enough being a law enforcement officer, and I am
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  Speaker 1: in no way, shape or form a defund or rethink
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  Speaker 1: the police department. My sister was a lifelong employee and
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  Speaker 1: retired as a lieutenant after twenty five years of service
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  Speaker 1: to this city. But is this less in your mind
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  Speaker 1: about the police officers themselves, or more about the policies
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  Speaker 1: behind the scenes, which might have instructed them to go
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  Speaker 1: with lesser charges, which wouldn't obligate them to look after
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  Speaker 1: the look for these bad guys.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely less about the police officers. And I
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  Speaker 2: have spent a lot of my career as an attorney
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  Speaker 2: actually representing police, and I know that they try very
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  Speaker 2: hard to do a good job. I think that what
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  Speaker 2: we have in Cincinnati, you know, which is in essence,
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  Speaker 2: you know, become lawless in many ways as we have
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  Speaker 2: a city that just doesn't care about enforcing the laws.
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  Speaker 2: And that's what we assert in the complaint. You know,
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  Speaker 2: we're like the city of Cincinnati through a custom and
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  Speaker 2: practice routinely of under reports and under polices and does
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  Speaker 2: not care about, you know, enforcing the law in the
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  Speaker 2: in the city Cincinnati, or following their own rules and regulations.
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  Speaker 2: So I really see this as a you know, a
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  Speaker 2: leadership situation. You know, the leadership in the Cincinnati Police
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  Speaker 2: has been you know lacking, and that's the real cause
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  Speaker 2: of the situation.
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  Speaker 1: Well, the other component of this, and this is just
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  Speaker 1: I think it was mind blowing for most everyone who
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  Speaker 1: was paying attention to the circumstances about his ankle monitor
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  Speaker 1: being cut off. I mean, I think most people like
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  Speaker 1: me in the world think this technology is real time
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  Speaker 1: and that, oh my god, if someone cuts off his
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  Speaker 1: ankle monitor or her that some alarm goes off and
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  Speaker 1: there's that room full of computers and cameras and this
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  Speaker 1: immediate lart and we got to get all points bolting out.
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  Speaker 1: This guy's on the loose, he's a dangerous criminal to
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  Speaker 1: spending time in prison. Is supposed to have that thing on.
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  Speaker 1: It seems that absolutely nothing was done. Your your comments
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  Speaker 1: about that, and is there any sort of allegations in
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  Speaker 1: the lawsuit that are directed to that failure?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think we talk about that and
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  Speaker 2: the complaint or you know, the complaint speaks to that issue,
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  Speaker 2: and that is the idea that this is an n
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  Speaker 2: c I S warrant. Right, So it's a when when
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  Speaker 2: you're a police officer and you punch in the name,
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  Speaker 2: you know, Joe Smith, and there's an nc IC warrant
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  Speaker 2: for Joe Smith, your your your screen starts flashing red.
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  Speaker 2: I mean it's like arrest Joe Smith immediately, right that.
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  Speaker 2: That's what happens when these when these n c IC
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  Speaker 2: warrants are seen by police. And we know, I'm unless
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  Speaker 2: the individual police officers didn't bother to even use their
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  Speaker 2: computers to check into the situation, which would be consistent
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  Speaker 2: with the under policing and under reporting allegations of the
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  Speaker 2: complaint if they didn't. If they did that, they would
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  Speaker 2: see a flashing red screen with an NCIC warrant for
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  Speaker 2: this person to show up. And you know, I think
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  Speaker 2: that's just vital. I mean, people need to understand that
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  Speaker 2: when you go to Cincinnati under the Chief Fiji, under
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  Speaker 2: her leadership, when you go to Cincinnati and she was
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  Speaker 2: the leader of the police department, the police are barely
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  Speaker 2: doing their jobs. I mean, that's just the fact of
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  Speaker 2: the matter, Okay.
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  Speaker 1: And the other perhaps failure again, just the their allegations
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  Speaker 1: and a complaint. I have tremendous amount of respect for you, sir,
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  Speaker 1: and I have met and have interviewed Sarah. What a beautiful,
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  Speaker 1: wonderful lady, and so just an amazing thing she had
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  Speaker 1: to live through, just so horrific. So just a little
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  Speaker 1: delicacy I'm trying to put on this question the interaction
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  Speaker 1: with the guy who got maceed. The guy was mased
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  Speaker 1: and robbed in downtown. Apparently Mordisha Black's a guy behind it.
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  Speaker 1: He didn't identify himself, gave the police officers a false name.
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  Speaker 1: The nope charges. Nobody wanted to press charges. I guess
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  Speaker 1: this guy didn't. But as you point out in the complaint,
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  Speaker 1: the police are supposed to complete an accurate report of
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  Speaker 1: all complaints of criminal activity, whether or not the victim
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  Speaker 1: wants to prosecute. That was one more opportunity for them
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  Speaker 1: to run his name through a database, had they pressed
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  Speaker 1: him on his identity so they could complete the report
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  Speaker 1: and be alerted to this NCIC issue, right, I.
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  Speaker 2: Mean, it's shocking, right. You would expect that the Cincinnati
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  Speaker 2: Police under competent leadership would do the basic fundamentals of policing.
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  Speaker 2: And had they done the basic fundamentals of policing, mister
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  Speaker 2: Black would have been arrested before he killed Patrick Herringer.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, a brutal, brutal murder could have
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  Speaker 2: been prevented if they just did their jobs. But you know,
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  Speaker 2: the leadership under Fiji was so poor that they didn't
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  Speaker 2: do their jobs.
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  Speaker 1: Well and interested to I pray to God, you at
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  Speaker 1: least get to the discovery phase. I'm certain you'll be
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: met with emotion to dismiss for fair to state a
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  Speaker 1: claim or something along those lines, which is typical in
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: this type of litigation. But if you get past that,
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  Speaker 1: you get to do discovery, and that's where you'll find
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  Speaker 1: out whether or not this unwritten custom and practice to
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  Speaker 1: under police which you alegend the complaint maybe have been
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  Speaker 1: written behind the scenes, or the depositions might reveal that yes,
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  Speaker 1: it's unwritten, but that was in fact the policy.
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  Speaker 2: Right. I've spoken with people, you know, formerly in leadership
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  Speaker 2: in the Cincinnati Police Department who tell me that this
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  Speaker 2: is actually true. So I didn't just make these things up.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, these are actual investigative findings about how this
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  Speaker 2: Cincinnati Police Department, especially under the leadership of Chief Fiji, operated,
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  Speaker 2: and it was just it was not incompetence. It was
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  Speaker 2: just we don't care, I mean, and you can see
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  Speaker 2: that so clearly when they encounter black at the Higher
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  Speaker 2: Regency downtown. The guy that twelve hours later is going
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  Speaker 2: to murder a decorated Army veteran, right, two Bronze Stars
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  Speaker 2: served in Iraq and Afghanistan. You know, a business owner
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  Speaker 2: of a leader in the community was murdered just twelve
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  Speaker 2: hours after this encounter because they didn't do their job.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it's absolutely crazy and absurd, and these are
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  Speaker 2: problems that can be corrected, and the people in Cincinnati
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  Speaker 2: deserve to have actual leadership, you know, actual policing actually
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  Speaker 2: doing their jobs. Well.
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  Speaker 1: I do know that the Hio legislators have the Sarah
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  Speaker 1: Heringer at before them, which will hopefully aid in us
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  Speaker 1: tracking these violent offenders after their release. That's a fingers
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  Speaker 1: crossed on that that as to the ankle monitoring before
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: we part company. Right now today, Todd mcmurtin, is a
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  Speaker 1: pleasure to have you on. Are you suing the county?
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Joe reminded me that the county is in charge of
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: ankle monitoring? I guess, so is there a separate allegation
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  Speaker 1: related to the county on that?
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  Speaker 2: No, I mean the Adult Probation and Parole, which is
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: a state agency in the county, you know, is involved
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: in that as well. They did their jobs, They did
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  Speaker 2: what they were supposed to do. They issued the NCIIC
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  Speaker 2: warrant of City Cincinnati just ignored it because they under
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  Speaker 2: report and under police as a custom and practice.
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  Speaker 1: All right, So they have to answer otherwise, plead you're
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: expecting emotion to dismiss? How quickly will there be if
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: you had to guess? I understand the wheels of justice
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: having practice law for eighteen years, my friend, So when
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: do you think we're going to get another opportunity to
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: talk about developments in the lawsuit?
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I assume they'll generally about sixty days to file
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: their motion to dismiss. It's a very interesting constitutional question.
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  Speaker 2: I brought the complaint in good faith under you know,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: applicable rules sure regarding good faith bleedings, and so I
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: assume that the federal courts will be hearing this in
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  Speaker 2: you know, sixty to one hundred and twenty days.
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  Speaker 1: Mc murty. You always have a welcome spot here in
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: the fifty five Carcy Morning sh to talk about this,
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  Speaker 1: and I will wish you luck because we all want
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of it and we never
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: want something like this to happen again to anyone I know.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: To thank you good luck man,