Latest / Banish the Lies: Outsmart Your Inner Critic / 52: The Lie: Putting Yourself First Is Selfish | Carmen Walsh on Living the Life You've Been Given

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52: The Lie: Putting Yourself First Is Selfish | Carmen Walsh on Living the Life You've Been Given · Banish the Lies: Outsmart Your Inner Critic

• 0:00
  Speaker: One of the biggest lies many of us believe is that putting ourselves first is selfish.
• 0:05
  Speaker: It's a belief that can shape our relationship and our choices and even our sense of identity.
• 0:10
  Speaker: We can become so focused on taking care of everyone else that somewhere along the way we lose ourselves.
• 0:16
  Speaker: In today's conversation, I'm joined by speaker and writer Carmen Walsh.
• 0:20
  Speaker: Together we explore what it means to redefine responsibility, to reconnect with joy, and to discover that caring for yourself isn't selfish.
• 0:31
  Speaker: It may actually be one of the most loving things you can do both for yourself and for the people around you.
• 0:36
  Speaker: If you've ever struggled to say no or felt responsible for everyone else's happiness, or maybe even wondered whether it's finally okay to choose yourself, I think this conversation will really resonate.
• 0:49
  Speaker: Here's my conversation with Carmen Walsh
• 0:55
  Tania: Welcome to Banish the Lies, the podcast where we outsmart that sneaky inner critic and get closer to the truth that sets us free.
• 1:03
  Tania: I'm Tania Cervoni, your host and fellow work in Progress here to share real stories and small shifts that help you reclaim what fear and doubt once stole.
• 1:13
  Tania: Let's jump in.
• 1:19
  Speaker: Welcome back, friends, to another episode of Banish the Lies.
• 1:23
  Speaker: Today I'm sitting with Carmen Walsh, who describes herself as an authentic joy rebel and lover of life.
• 1:29
  Speaker: I love that so much.
• 1:30
  Speaker: I can't wait to unpack that a bit.
• 1:32
  Speaker: Carmen, I'm so excited for this conversation.
• 1:34
  Speaker: Thank you for being here.
• 1:35
  Speaker: Oh, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:37
  Speaker: It's a joy.
• 1:38
  Speaker: So there are a number of reasons actually why I invited you and one of them is because I've been watching you.
• 1:46
  Speaker: How creepy does that sound as as- way to start?
• 1:48
  Speaker: I've been wa- You're stalking me?
• 1:50
  Speaker: I've been wa- I've been stalking you, yes.
• 1:53
  Speaker: I've been watching you on social media, and I have seen you sing, I have seen you dance.
• 1:59
  Speaker: I have heard you share things that are quite vulnerable.
• 2:02
  Speaker: And you've done things that I would hesitate to do, which is where the fascination comes, and I guess I'm really curious.
• 2:10
  Speaker: You do it with such a level of apparent freedom, and I'm wondering whether that freedom has always been there or if this is something you've had to fight for.
• 2:21
  Speaker: Well, I have full body chills as you just said that it appears to be with so much freedom because no, that was not always there.
• 2:31
  Speaker: Um, that has definitely been a journey.
• 2:35
  Speaker: And it's been my focus really recently to allow myself to come out more and just be myself regardless of...
• 2:46
  Speaker: Like what you said, it could be dancing, it could be singing, it could be sharing super personal stories, um, or even philosophies or anything like that, and just realizing that allowing myself to be fully who I am, that is freedom, and I really, really want that for everyone because there's nothing quite so delicious as being able to be fully yourself.
• 3:12
  Speaker: And I think that's where the attraction is, And selfishly, I'm really relieved that you said you weren't born with this because I'm pretty sure everyone listening is like, "Yes, that is available for me too." So does that mean that today you don't find yourself being concerned about what people think or Could you give some insight on how you got here?
• 3:33
  Speaker: Sure.
• 3:34
  Speaker: Um, and this is so fun.
• 3:36
  Speaker: This is not a conversation I've had yet with someone.
• 3:39
  Speaker: This...
• 3:40
  Speaker: Whoo.
• 3:41
  Speaker: No, I don't feel like this all the time yet.
• 3:44
  Speaker: But we'll get that out of the way.
• 3:46
  Speaker: Thanks for being human and authentic.
• 3:48
  Speaker: I'm with you.
• 3:49
  Speaker: I'm with you.
• 3:50
  Speaker: Um, and I've really been, like I said, recently just purposefully doing things to share myself more and more without the attachment to what people may or may not think about it.
• 4:11
  Speaker: Um, I lived my, most of my life, I'd say up through my mid-40s, being very concerned about how people might react.
• 4:21
  Speaker: That's how I judged what I did, you know?
• 4:25
  Speaker: That's how I made decisions, was based on what I thought other people would feel about it.
• 4:30
  Speaker: I'm curious because you're a speaker, you're an author, you're an artist.
• 4:34
  Speaker: How did that impact your creative expression?
• 4:37
  Speaker: Oh, it, it definitely, uh, put a lid on it.
• 4:41
  Speaker: Mm.
• 4:41
  Speaker: Like, I didn't even play any music.
• 4:46
  Speaker: Like, as a kid, music was such a big part of my life.
• 4:49
  Speaker: Um, it was actually everyone in our family played instruments.
• 4:53
  Speaker: My mom was still a church organist, um, taught piano lessons out of our house, you know, and I would sit and play the piano and sing.
• 5:01
  Speaker: You know, It was one of my ways to really, connect with myself and calm myself down and just feel really good as- Mm you know, like, as a young, young kid.
• 5:10
  Speaker: Um, and I literally didn't play any music, like, so I knew how to play the, piano and then some other instruments.
• 5:20
  Speaker: I didn't play the piano for, like, 30 years.
• 5:23
  Speaker: Wow.
• 5:24
  Speaker: So that was one of the things actually that helped me- start again and start leaning into just being myself and not worrying about what people thought.
• 5:36
  Speaker: Like, I started playing and singing, and actually putting it on Facebook, regardless of how bad it was, um, when I was going through a really tough time personally.
• 5:48
  Speaker: 'Cause I was like, "What can I do to help myself feel better?" And I had a keyboard.
• 5:53
  Speaker: I had bought a keyboard, you know, but I hadn't really played it.
• 5:56
  Speaker: It had been sitting in my house for a couple years, and I started just playing and singing and putting it out on Facebook.
• 6:02
  Speaker: And I don't even know if I knew why I was doing that, but I knew that I remembered that, you know, it made me feel good to do that, like that action of just singing and I got so much love back from people, and it wasn't about, "Oh my gosh, that was so good." It was, "Oh, I felt that.
• 6:23
  Speaker: That was so beautiful." Right?
• 6:25
  Speaker: It was a feeling thing.
• 6:27
  Speaker: It wasn't, like, a talent thing.
• 6:28
  Speaker: What I love about that, it just sounds like you honored yourself, and in doing that you create the permission space for the rest of us to do the same, because I think that's viscerally what I experienced is, like, a deep exhale.
• 6:40
  Speaker: And, it almost sounds like you just followed the joy, and I wonder if is as an effect of following the joy it started to rewire the beliefs you held.
• 6:51
  Speaker: Absolutely, 100%.
• 6:55
  Speaker: And I didn't even realize it was happening at the time.
• 6:58
  Speaker: You know?
• 6:58
  Speaker: But looking back, that is exactly what was happening, is I was allowing myself to be really, truly, authentically me.
• 7:06
  Speaker: Like, the playing and the singing, that was something that brought me joy, and I can listen back and I'm like, it was terrible.
• 7:13
  Speaker: If you were looking at it from a performance stand- it was terrible.
• 7:17
  Speaker: But it wasn't a performance.
• 7:19
  Speaker: It was an experience.
• 7:21
  Speaker: Mm-hmm.
• 7:21
  Speaker: Right?
• 7:22
  Speaker: I was allowing myself to experience the music.
• 7:25
  Speaker: And I think that changes everything, right?
• 7:29
  Speaker: Because then the people listening experienced it too.
• 7:35
  Speaker: Right.
• 7:35
  Speaker: They weren't thinking, "Oh, was that good or that bad," right?
• 7:38
  Speaker: It was just really feeling it rather than judging it.
• 7:43
  Speaker: And I do think people can feel the difference, and I think that that's why I don't ever recall thinking I was critiquing your voice in any way.
• 7:52
  Speaker: I was experiencing your freedom, your courage, your joy, just your self-expression, and I don't know, it was just, I think you used the word delicious.
• 8:00
  Speaker: It was just beautiful.
• 8:02
  Speaker: And it's so funny, right?
• 8:03
  Speaker: Because we all go around worrying about what everyone else is thinking, but we're just kind of waiting for someone to break the mold.
• 8:09
  Speaker: And you just did it.
• 8:11
  Speaker: You're like, "Hello, here I am, and I'm just gonna express myself," and I just love that.
• 8:16
  Speaker: So on behalf of all of us who are still, a work in progress I thank you for- setting an example for what's possible yeah, I feel like it's become my mission in life and, I have to remind myself that it's for me first because I can get real caught up in saving other people, like, that's what I did most of my life.
• 8:35
  Speaker: But when I remember that it's for me first, like, just keep leaning into my joy, keep leaning into what feels good for me, to realize that that itself helps other people is, it's such a gift.
• 8:51
  Speaker: Like, that feels like the biggest blessing.
• 8:53
  Speaker: And I mean, how easy is that, right?
• 8:56
  Speaker: Not that it doesn't take attention, because when you're breaking habits and all that, it does take attention.
• 9:01
  Speaker: But the, the peace that comes from that, right?
• 9:05
  Speaker: Because you're, all you're doing is choosing to be who you actually are.
• 9:10
  Speaker: And it's so funny that it's countercultural, right?
• 9:13
  Speaker: What we're raised to believe.
• 9:14
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 9:14
  Speaker: It's like, well, you should be this, and you should align here, and you should fit in here.
• 9:17
  Speaker: And you used an expression, I think you just said, "Putting me first," and that's a perfect segue I always ask guests what's one lie that you've come up against in your life, and I actually wrote down what you wrote here.
• 9:28
  Speaker: You said that, the lie for you was that thinking of yourself first is selfish, and I think that's a belief that so many of us carry- Mm especially women.
• 9:37
  Speaker: I mean, I'm sure there's men as well.
• 9:38
  Speaker: Um, I'd love to know a bit about maybe where that came from, and more importantly, how it has shaped your life, oof.
• 9:46
  Speaker: Well, I can tell you where it started, I was the youngest of five children, and my middle brother...
• 9:54
  Speaker: So there was a, a, a girl on each end and three boys in the middle.
• 9:58
  Speaker: Wow.
• 9:59
  Speaker: And my middle brother had epilepsy.
• 10:02
  Speaker: Mm.
• 10:03
  Speaker: So he was six years older than I was, and, um, you know, my childhood was listening for seizures.
• 10:11
  Speaker: Hmm.
• 10:12
  Speaker: And I felt really responsible.
• 10:16
  Speaker: Um, and that's not anyone's fault, that's just, like, what I took on.
• 10:22
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 10:22
  Speaker: And so his safety became more important than my joy And, and he died when I was 15, and I remember that day actually being relieved thinking, "Oh, I finally get to live my life now." Yeah.
• 10:45
  Speaker: But then I felt really guilty for that.
• 10:48
  Speaker: That's hard.
• 10:49
  Speaker: Because that's a, what a horrible thing to say.
• 10:53
  Speaker: You know?
• 10:54
  Speaker: Like, I'm glad my brother's dead.
• 10:56
  Speaker: I didn't actually think those words, but to be relieved and so I, I felt guilty and I, I just shut that down, and I shut down, right?
• 11:07
  Speaker: And what did I do?
• 11:08
  Speaker: Within two months I met my first boyfriend, so I found another person to revolve my life around.
• 11:14
  Speaker: Mm-hmm.
• 11:14
  Speaker: Because it was such a habit.
• 11:17
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 11:18
  Speaker: And- I'm sure at a level it's become, like, identity.
• 11:21
  Speaker: Like, being, being loving gets confused with being responsible, with being also a good girl.
• 11:26
  Speaker: All of those things I'm sure become all enmeshed.
• 11:30
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 11:31
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 11:32
  Speaker: So I found myself in relationships where I felt like I had to save the person.
• 11:36
  Speaker: Mm.
• 11:36
  Speaker: Like, I have to be the helper, and I did that many times.
• 11:43
  Speaker: Um, and I knew I needed to do something about my own patterns.
• 11:50
  Speaker: Um, I actually remember there was a day when I was, um...
• 11:57
  Speaker: I had broken up, kinda kicked out my boyfriend at the time, um, and he had alcohol issues and many other things going on, and I absolutely loved him, and I knew we couldn't live together.
• 12:12
  Speaker: Like, we had to make some progress or we were just gonna kill each other.
• 12:16
  Speaker: It's hard when those two things live together, right?
• 12:18
  Speaker: You've got the love- Yeah and you also know that something's gotta give.
• 12:21
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 12:21
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 12:22
  Speaker: And so he was no longer living in my house, so I felt more peaceful, right?
• 12:27
  Speaker: 'Cause I didn't have that other energy going on.
• 12:30
  Speaker: And I remember being in my kitchen, and I've got some, like, old school R&B on, and I'm just dancing around my kitchen, and I'm making my favorite pasta sauce, right?
• 12:38
  Speaker: And I'm chopping up the peppers, and I'm just, like, really feeling good, and my phone rings.
• 12:47
  Speaker: And so I pick it up, and it's him.
• 12:50
  Speaker: And we hadn't talked for a little while, so I was kinda glad to hear from him 'cause I still love him, right?
• 12:56
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 12:56
  Speaker: And so we talk for a few minutes, and it's really good, and then he starts saying all this crazy stuff, and I get really super frustrated.
• 13:08
  Speaker: And I'm like, I can't have this conversation again.
• 13:13
  Speaker: I can't do this.
• 13:14
  Speaker: 'Cause he was saying, like, I didn't care about him and all this stuff, and I'm like, "How can you possibly think that," right?
• 13:20
  Speaker: I mean, after everything I've been doing for you, how can you think that?" And I look down, and I still had that knife that I was chopping the peppers with.
• 13:28
  Speaker: I still had it in my hand, and I had it, like, uh, blade pointing up.
• 13:33
  Speaker: Mm-hmm.
• 13:35
  Speaker: And I had put, like, 20 dents in the cutting board in front of me without realizing it.
• 13:40
  Speaker: Like, I had banged it into that board while I was talking to him because I was so frustrated, and that kinda scared the crap out of me- Mm-hmm 'cause I was like, "I didn't even know I did that." And I got off that phone and I was like, "Oh.
• 13:56
  Speaker: Oh, my goodness." Like, I gotta do some work on me because he's not even in the house and I- that had that effect on me.
• 14:05
  Speaker: You know what I mean?
• 14:05
  Speaker: I'm like, I can't blame that on him.
• 14:07
  Speaker: That's me.
• 14:08
  Speaker: Like, that's me losing complete control here.
• 14:10
  Speaker: And so that's when I really started.
• 14:14
  Speaker: I did more counseling, I got more into personal development stuff.
• 14:17
  Speaker: Like, I knew I had, like, to find my own, my own core, right?
• 14:23
  Speaker: My center, where I could feel good about me and deal with whatever comes along.
• 14:30
  Speaker: And that, yeah, that was the beginning of a big journey.
• 14:33
  Speaker: Yeah, that sounds incredibly difficult.
• 14:36
  Speaker: And we often have to get to those points, I mean, I've never admittedly had that experience with a knife, but I've had my own equivalent where you just have one of those moments, you're like, "Okay, this needs to be addressed.
• 14:49
  Speaker: This is a wake-up call.
• 14:50
  Speaker: There's a message here and I need to pay attention." So I'm grateful it got your attention before anything else happened with the knife.
• 14:57
  Speaker: And I think that might be connected to one of the things you said you wanted to talk about is this notion of responsibility.
• 15:04
  Speaker: It's interesting, I just recorded a Monday Moment episode, not so much talking about responsibility, but talking about the fact that I feel personally like it's a betrayal if I allow myself to experience joy when someone else is in pain.
• 15:19
  Speaker: Ugh.
• 15:20
  Speaker: And, I don't know if that's a piece of it for you, but I imagine that your relationship, given what you've shared about your brother, and about your ex, that your relationship with the word responsibility has evolved.
• 15:33
  Speaker: So I'm curious, what does responsibility mean for you today and how is that different from what it used to mean?
• 15:40
  Speaker: I think I'll take it in the opposite order.
• 15:44
  Speaker: Okay.
• 15:44
  Speaker: What it used to mean was that I did what was expected or what I thought was expected of me to support everyone I loved.
• 15:56
  Speaker: So that's looking out for my brother's safety, helping my parents with their business, I mean, I always had home-based businesses.
• 16:03
  Speaker: Um, you know, then when I was working, doing everything perfectly and on time and being a good little soldier, right?
• 16:12
  Speaker: I mean, it was always about the other people in my life.
• 16:16
  Speaker: That is definitely how I thought of responsibility.
• 16:20
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 16:21
  Speaker: It was like my responsibility to the world was serving everyone around me Today, I finally get, and obviously this is my opinion, but I strongly believe that our only true responsibility is to live our own authentic life, like to follow our joy.
• 16:48
  Speaker: That is our responsibility.
• 16:50
  Speaker: And the reason that I can feel so convicted in that now, because yes, I did go through the period where I was like, "Isn't that selfish?
• 16:58
  Speaker: Like, isn't that self-centered?" But I now believe that when we do that, when we show up fully as ourselves, which the only way to do that is to feed our joy, is to follow those, those impulses and everything that we have that, that feels so right to us, right?
• 17:17
  Speaker: Um, when we do that, we get to show up in more power, in more love and compassion for everyone else.
• 17:26
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 17:28
  Speaker: And in the overflow- right?
• 17:29
  Speaker: When we fill our cup exactly.
• 17:30
  Speaker: Because one of the, one of the problems with the old way, with the responsibility to everyone else, is you can do that for a while.
• 17:40
  Speaker: You can.
• 17:41
  Speaker: But you will start to get burnt out, because if you're never giving yourself the joy and the things that bring you to life, you get depleted, and then you get resentful.
• 17:55
  Speaker: And that's what happens, that's what destroys your relationships, right?
• 18:00
  Speaker: Because you're like, "I'm doing all this for you, why are you not showing up for me?" And that is codependency.
• 18:07
  Speaker: That is like, I expect you to make me happy.
• 18:10
  Speaker: No one can do that.
• 18:12
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 18:13
  Speaker: And what's so ironic, I mean, that kind of giving, first of all, isn't unconditional, right?
• 18:18
  Speaker: No.
• 18:18
  Speaker: And it comes with the expectation.
• 18:19
  Speaker: And secondly, as you're describing this, I'm thinking about my own journey earlier in my life many years of bulimia, which I feel at the root...
• 18:28
  Speaker: Well, there are many things at the root of it, but I think part of it was self-abandonment.
• 18:31
  Speaker: And, the giving, giving, never really understanding who I am and what I want.
• 18:36
  Speaker: And where the irony comes in is then I start to break down.
• 18:41
  Speaker: Now I have this addictive behavior.
• 18:43
  Speaker: Now I have these challenges, which essentially makes me a burden to the people that I'm supposedly wanting to help.
• 18:50
  Speaker: Mm-hmm.
• 18:51
  Speaker: So to your point, whether it ends up being burnout or it manifests in some other way, we can't be of service if we haven't filled ourselves up and even figured out who we are and how we can really show up in our highest.
• 19:03
  Speaker: So I love, I love what you're saying about that.
• 19:05
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 19:06
  Speaker: And I love what you're saying about knowing yourself, because that, for me, um, has been a big piece of that.
• 19:12
  Speaker: Because when you're so focused on the other people and you don't put focus on yourself, right, you don't know who you are.
• 19:22
  Speaker: You don't remember who you are.
• 19:24
  Speaker: Like, I think as a little, little kid, we know who we are, right?
• 19:28
  Speaker: But- Yeah um, 'cause we're just, we're just being it.
• 19:30
  Speaker: We're not thinking about it.
• 19:31
  Speaker: Right.
• 19:32
  Speaker: Like, but when we lose, when we lose that connection to ourself by focusing on all the other people, I think we do actually have to spend focused attention on coming back to that, getting to know ourselves again.
• 19:48
  Speaker: Because that, to me, is where the, the conviction can come from.
• 19:55
  Speaker: That's, like, the stable foundation.
• 19:57
  Speaker: When you know who you are, like you know what your values are, you know what makes you happy, what doesn't, like, so you get to make choices from there.
• 20:07
  Speaker: But if you never spend that time on who you are, then you're always just gonna be responding to what's around you, right?
• 20:16
  Speaker: And you never get to create your life that way.
• 20:20
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 20:21
  Speaker: It's so very true, right?
• 20:23
  Speaker: We're always at effect instead of really being in the role of creator, which I think we all essentially are.
• 20:28
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 20:28
  Speaker: I'm curious, for someone who's listening who is just now in the inquiry, like, "Oh, wow, am I caring for someone or am I self-abandoning?" What would you say are some of the biggest clues that that's what's at play?
• 20:42
  Speaker: Hmm.
• 20:43
  Speaker: That's such a good question.
• 20:45
  Speaker: When you are thinking about what someone else is going to think about any response you give before you give your response.
• 20:55
  Speaker: Like- Oh, that's a good, that's a good one right?
• 20:57
  Speaker: Will they be mad at me if I say no to helping?
• 20:59
  Speaker: Will they be mad at me if I say no?
• 21:00
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 21:01
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 21:02
  Speaker: Will they think I'm whatever if I say blank, right?
• 21:06
  Speaker: That's a really good clue, um, if you feel guilty for saying no to things that you really don't wanna do.
• 21:13
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 21:14
  Speaker: Which all of us have experience doing, you know?
• 21:19
  Speaker: And, It's such a big part, I think, of especially with women, right?
• 21:26
  Speaker: We do feel like we have to show up for people because that's what a good person does, you know?
• 21:32
  Speaker: And if we don't do it, who's gonna do it, right?
• 21:36
  Speaker: We also have that, or at least I did.
• 21:38
  Speaker: You're like, "If I want it done right, then I have to do it," or And what to do in the absence of that.
• 21:43
  Speaker: Like, what happens when I honor myself and I say no 'cause I'm sensing, all, the clues that you've said, or I can just feel already a sense of exhaustion at the thought of it.
• 21:52
  Speaker: And then trying to figure out, okay, well if not that, then what?
• 21:58
  Speaker: They, there's an interesting, little story that helped me with this so much, and, it was not by choice.
• 22:05
  Speaker: So in 2020, my mother we were moving her back into the house where we all lived.
• 22:13
  Speaker: She had moved, and my dad had passed away, and she wanted to move back.
• 22:16
  Speaker: So we were supposed to move her this weekend, and I thought I had COVID.
• 22:22
  Speaker: Hmm.
• 22:23
  Speaker: And I was like, I can't take possible COVID to my elderly mother." That's irresponsible.
• 22:31
  Speaker: But also, I'm supposed to be helping her move.
• 22:35
  Speaker: And so for me, it was a, it was an obvious choice.
• 22:40
  Speaker: Like, health beats out the, the moving part, right?
• 22:45
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 22:45
  Speaker: Somebody else can help her move.
• 22:46
  Speaker: So I remember calling her and saying, "Mom, I'm really sorry.
• 22:52
  Speaker: I can't come help you move.
• 22:53
  Speaker: I might have COVID.
• 22:55
  Speaker: I cannot bring that, you know, to, to you and the rest of the family." And she's like, "Okay, no problem." You know?
• 23:01
  Speaker: And the rest of it, my family did all the work, got her moved, no problem.
• 23:09
  Speaker: And I remember thinking like, "Oh my God." That was so easy.
• 23:14
  Speaker: I like it's not up to me.
• 23:17
  Speaker: It's not always up to me to make sure the things get done.
• 23:20
  Speaker: Like, the world is not actually on my shoulders.
• 23:24
  Speaker: Like, it felt like it for the first 40 years of my life.
• 23:27
  Speaker: It's not.
• 23:27
  Speaker: Like, that was just a belief, but it's not true.
• 23:31
  Speaker: It's like a huge revelation, and I'm laughing because I think in myself I carried a lie that was kind of arrogant that people need me.
• 23:40
  Speaker: Uh-huh.
• 23:41
  Speaker: Like, they're gonna fall apart if I don't step in and save the day, and it's maybe also part of how I got my sense of value.
• 23:49
  Speaker: Like, that's just who I am and what I do.
• 23:51
  Speaker: I help people and, you know, they need my help, and what's gonna happen if I don't?
• 23:56
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 23:57
  Speaker: That is 100% who I was, right?
• 24:01
  Speaker: I'm gonna be the one that saves the day, and if I don't, then what value do I have?
• 24:07
  Speaker: Like, that was literally how I thought about myself.
• 24:10
  Speaker: And- What an exhausting way to live It is, and I think that's part of the challenge.
• 24:17
  Speaker: When we, even when we have grown in the awareness that this identity we've been running is not serving us, which means ultimately it's not serving others- Mm there can be this, I don't know, this fear as you transition into, "Okay, now who is Tanya and how's she gonna show up?" So that can be uncomfortable, but very freeing, and ultimately better for everyone, 'cause- Absolutely otherwise you get into that, like you said, the codependence piece that you already- Oh, God pointed to.
• 24:45
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 24:47
  Speaker: And it's, and it's not overnight.
• 24:49
  Speaker: Like, you know, this has taken a while of...
• 24:52
  Speaker: And I mean, I'm still on the journey of, finding out all the things that light me up and stuff.
• 24:57
  Speaker: But I think that's where you start is, "What brings me joy?" Yeah.
• 25:03
  Speaker: Like, literally just start there.
• 25:05
  Speaker: And I- it's interesting when you f- when you ask people who are at the beginning of that journey, like, "What brings you joy?" They're like deer in the headlights.
• 25:15
  Speaker: Right?
• 25:15
  Speaker: Agreed.
• 25:16
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 25:16
  Speaker: They don't even know.
• 25:17
  Speaker: And because they're just not used to thinking about it.
• 25:23
  Speaker: Yep.
• 25:24
  Speaker: And so it takes some time, and I- one of the things I recommend is actually to create a joy list.
• 25:30
  Speaker: Like, just have a piece of paper somewhere, I don't know if you wanna put it on your refrigerator or whatever works for you.
• 25:36
  Speaker: And just add things as they come to you.
• 25:38
  Speaker: Oh, that's right, I like walking in the forest.
• 25:41
  Speaker: Oh, that's right, I love going to coffee shops and just sitting there and, you know, people-watching.
• 25:47
  Speaker: Or coloring, or just sitting out in the sunshine.
• 25:51
  Speaker: You know what I mean?
• 25:52
  Speaker: Just keep this list going, and then what I find really helpful about that is then when you're having a bad day, you can...
• 26:00
  Speaker: Because your brain is, like, in the swirl of the whatever negative stuff you're in- Yeah you probably can't think of the things that would make you feel better.
• 26:09
  Speaker: But you have a list you can look at.
• 26:11
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 26:11
  Speaker: You know, "Oh, let me just do one of those things." I think it's simple and brilliant, 'cause I know when I'm in that space, there's a resistance.
• 26:18
  Speaker: Oh, yeah.
• 26:18
  Speaker: I almost wanna, like, stew in my own self-pity, and I don't really wanna get creative.
• 26:22
  Speaker: But having that list there as a reminder, not only of what I love and enjoy, but that I have the power to shift, and it's not, about bypassing anything that needs to be felt.
• 26:32
  Speaker: But- I think that that's a, that's a beautiful thing.
• 26:35
  Speaker: Um, one of the things that I wanna make sure we touch on, because this really stopped me, and it does relate to, how we can sometimes bypass experience and stay stuck.
• 26:45
  Speaker: You wrote, Speaking of stalking you, I've also been reading your articles on Substack- which I'm loving.
• 26:50
  Speaker: Wonderful.
• 26:51
  Speaker: And, um, there were several articles I read, and then there was one, actually I wrote down the quote you wrote, "When learning becomes fixing, and when learning replaces experiencing." And as someone who has been a serial learner, always in the next course, the next modality, the next self-help book, all of the things- Mm-hmm I really saw myself and how, you know, personal growth can quietly become another way to focus on the fixing instead of simply living our lives.
• 27:28
  Speaker: I mean, there is a time for all the development- Yes but I can see how one can hide in that.
• 27:34
  Speaker: So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about what inspired that article, yeah.
• 27:38
  Speaker: Um, yeah, it was interesting thinking about putting that article out, because I definitely don't want to, you know, negate or poo-poo any of the personal development, because it helped me so much.
• 27:51
  Speaker: Right.
• 27:51
  Speaker: And I- Got to the point where, like you, kept doing course after course, you know, staying with coaches way past when I f- really felt useful.
• 28:06
  Speaker: Mm-hmm.
• 28:06
  Speaker: You know?
• 28:07
  Speaker: Like I c- I could be actually teaching this now, you know?
• 28:10
  Speaker: Um, but feeling like, oh, well I need that.
• 28:13
  Speaker: I need something because I'm not good enough yet on my own And that's really sneaky, right?
• 28:22
  Speaker: Mm-hmm.
• 28:22
  Speaker: Because we can always improve.
• 28:26
  Speaker: Right.
• 28:26
  Speaker: We can always, right?
• 28:28
  Speaker: I mean, that's just the nature of who we are.
• 28:30
  Speaker: Like, we- And it feels very noble and responsible at the same time, right?
• 28:33
  Speaker: It, it does, right?
• 28:34
  Speaker: I'm improving myself, I'm taking responsibility for my growth.
• 28:37
  Speaker: Mm-hmm, yeah.
• 28:39
  Speaker: And the sneaky part about that is that's fine if it's just bringing you joy to do it, like if you just are feeling better and better because you're doing it.
• 28:49
  Speaker: If you're in it and it no longer feels like that, you just feel like, "Well, I, I need to keep doing this," then it starts feeling like you're making yourself wrong.
• 29:02
  Speaker: You're making y- you, like I said, not good enough yet.
• 29:06
  Speaker: And when we judge ourselves in that way, when we judge ourselves at all really, that keeps us from the expansion, right?
• 29:19
  Speaker: Mm.
• 29:19
  Speaker: And that, I think, explains, and I've never actually said this out loud before, so this is really fun, um, never thought about this.
• 29:25
  Speaker: I think that explains, like, the two steps forward, one step back kind of thing that so many people do.
• 29:31
  Speaker: I mean, 'cause I've watched it for years, right?
• 29:33
  Speaker: Including myself, where you're in all this personal development and you take these steps and you show up bigger in the world and all these, and then you back up a little bit 'cause you're like, "Oh, no, maybe not.
• 29:45
  Speaker: Not ready for that," you know?
• 29:47
  Speaker: And some of that is your nervous system's just like, "No, uh, n- no, that does not feel comfortable and we don't wanna go there." But I also think it's partially that idea of who am I to step out and say like, "Hey, world, I'm here.
• 30:05
  Speaker: There's not a damn thing wrong with me." And I honestly, I think that's what we all need to be able to say.
• 30:12
  Speaker: Like, I would love for everybody to be able, like, "There's nothing wrong with me," because I believe that.
• 30:17
  Speaker: There's nothing wrong with any of us.
• 30:19
  Speaker: I love that so much because, well, if you've listened to my podcast, you know I talk about essentially that there isn't nothing to fix.
• 30:27
  Speaker: You're never been broken, and it's a process of remembering.
• 30:29
  Speaker: But it's somewhat of a paradox because I certainly had behaviors- Yes that were harmful.
• 30:36
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 30:37
  Speaker: And yet the core of who I am, the person who I've always been before the world told me who I needed to be, was never broken, but how we hold those things together, and I guess it takes a certain amount of discernment to know when legitimately we need to address these things over here that are getting in the way of health and joy and stuff, and when- That has started to become an excuse or a cage we're living inside of because it feels like progress, it feels like real work.
• 31:09
  Speaker: And when it might be time to either stop the work or pause the work and actually start to embody all of these things that we're reading of in the books and all the...
• 31:18
  Speaker: You know what I mean?
• 31:18
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 31:19
  Speaker: And so that- Yeah can be a tricky place.
• 31:22
  Speaker: Like you said, the word sneaky, I think you used, it really is.
• 31:25
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 31:26
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 31:26
  Speaker: And I...
• 31:27
  Speaker: It's interesting, I I so agree with that, and I usually talk about that as, like, being, um, we're perfect at the soul level, you know?
• 31:34
  Speaker: The who we are, like you were saying- Mm-hmm who we are before the world told us who we needed to be.
• 31:38
  Speaker: Like, that's perfect.
• 31:40
  Speaker: That person, that soul, that's perfect.
• 31:43
  Speaker: Never wrong, never broken, none of the things.
• 31:46
  Speaker: Can't, can't do anything wrong, you know?
• 31:49
  Speaker: And then there are the behaviors, like you said.
• 31:52
  Speaker: And the way I speak about it now is I, I say, "You know what?
• 31:59
  Speaker: Y- you can't do anything wrong.
• 32:01
  Speaker: You are absolutely perfect, and you can do things to help your experience feel better." Hmm.
• 32:12
  Speaker: Right?
• 32:13
  Speaker: Because we're all here for the feeling, right?
• 32:17
  Speaker: Whatever we do, we do it for the feeling we think we're gonna get.
• 32:20
  Speaker: 100%, yeah.
• 32:21
  Speaker: So- If our life feels crappy in any way, if we feel like we're depleted 'cause we're serving everybody else, if we feel like we're in a job that we hate, you know, and we hate going to every day, that's something we can change.
• 32:37
  Speaker: That's a feeling we don't like.
• 32:39
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 32:39
  Speaker: And so we can make different decisions to feel better.
• 32:43
  Speaker: That never means anything about who we are as a person, right?
• 32:48
  Speaker: Like, we're still that perfect soul, and I, I think a way to remem- member that, and a lot of people talk about, like, inner child- Mm-hmm and stuff like that, exercises where you, you look at a picture of yourself as a, a little kid, like, remembering who you actually are.
• 33:05
  Speaker: And it's, it's, like, pure light and love.
• 33:07
  Speaker: That's who we all are.
• 33:08
  Speaker: Some of us have more layers of gunk layered on, that's all.
• 33:12
  Speaker: And you said, you can't get it wrong, and that was another article of yours that I read, and I wrote down here, "There is no way to get it wrong." And I think so many of us think about life almost like a test, so what do you mean when you say, you can't get it wrong?
• 33:28
  Speaker: Because the way our society is structured, there's a lot of evidence and there's a lot of feedback that you ain't getting it right, and therefore, you must be getting it wrong.
• 33:37
  Speaker: So I'd love for you to- Yeah share a little bit about that.
• 33:39
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 33:40
  Speaker: Um, well, one, I think getting it right and wrong is based on a certain set of criteria, right?
• 33:48
  Speaker: So true you know?
• 33:49
  Speaker: And what you're measuring, yeah.
• 33:50
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 33:51
  Speaker: So if, if right means successful, what does successful look like?
• 33:55
  Speaker: Does it mean making a lot of money and having a really big house?
• 33:59
  Speaker: Does it mean waking up every morning and loving your life?
• 34:02
  Speaker: Mm.
• 34:04
  Speaker: You know what I mean?
• 34:05
  Speaker: So that in itself, when you look at how you define things, what rules you set up for success, for happiness, for all the things, like, when you look at, okay, well, how am I defining that?
• 34:19
  Speaker: And am I setting myself up to fail?
• 34:21
  Speaker: I certainly was.
• 34:23
  Speaker: Like, one of my rules for getting it right for success was, like, I do everything perfectly.
• 34:29
  Speaker: I do it on time.
• 34:31
  Speaker: I do it with a smile on my face.
• 34:33
  Speaker: I do it so the people like me, right?
• 34:34
  Speaker: I had to get all that stuff right, otherwise I was failing.
• 34:38
  Speaker: Well, that's really hard.
• 34:40
  Speaker: So if you're setting yourself up for failure by way of your criteria, you know, your life just became very, very burdensome and pressured.
• 34:52
  Speaker: Yeah, I love that.
• 34:54
  Speaker: So I'm guessing there's a lot of people having light bulb moments right now.
• 34:58
  Speaker: We've been talking about, redefining responsibility, putting ourselves first, filling up our own cup.
• 35:05
  Speaker: We're talking about you don't have to get it right.
• 35:07
  Speaker: So if you're hearing all this and you're having these light bulb moments, um, what is, one small step that people could take to start returning back to themselves?
• 35:17
  Speaker: I think you've just shared one right there.
• 35:19
  Speaker: Become aware of the invisible rules you've been living your life, and really ask, are these really what matter to you, and do they align with my values and this is how I wanna live?
• 35:29
  Speaker: But I wonder if you have anything else to add to that.
• 35:32
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 35:33
  Speaker: I think, and one of the other things we talked about, you know, kind of the clues for whether you're living for other people versus yourself, I actually created this, super quick one-page quiz about that, just to, look at your patterns.
• 35:45
  Speaker: That can be helpful to see if you are- I love that prioritizing other people over yourself.
• 35:51
  Speaker: And I don't know if this is really in direct response to this question, but I'm gonna say it anyway 'cause it's coming to me, is that one of the, super simple things that I've done in my life is, noticing beauty, which is a really simple, simple thing to do.
• 36:08
  Speaker: Um- And it can be just going on a walk through your neighborhood and actually looking at the flowers in people's yards, like really closely, and getting curious about them.
• 36:19
  Speaker: And that gets us out of our swirl in our head, and it quiets us down, and I think from there we can feel into, more into who we are versus the serving everyone else.
• 36:34
  Speaker: And you can get answers there and direction there about, "Oh, this feels really good.
• 36:44
  Speaker: Huh.
• 36:45
  Speaker: I should do this more often maybe." I love that, and you kinda said this is a simple, simple thing, and I think sometimes we almost say that in an apologetic way, Because for myself I recognize one of the lies I've been living by is that it has to be complicated.
• 36:57
  Speaker: Oh, yeah To be valuable it's gotta be hard.
• 36:59
  Speaker: You gotta work for it.
• 37:00
  Speaker: And as a result I dismissed, a lot of these simple things.
• 37:05
  Speaker: Simple doesn't mean not powerful.
• 37:07
  Speaker: In fact, it's often the most simplest things that aren't always easy because it- Mm-hmm requires us to pay attention, to slow down, and to unlearn.
• 37:15
  Speaker: Like in my case I had to unlearn that was complexity that made something important, which is total- Yeah nonsense.
• 37:21
  Speaker: Um, so I love that, cause you're right.
• 37:24
  Speaker: It, nature does restore us- Oh and speak to us.
• 37:27
  Speaker: It does.
• 37:28
  Speaker: And really calm our nervous systems.
• 37:30
  Speaker: And it's, it's such a good reminder also of seasons.
• 37:34
  Speaker: Like I guess depending where you live, but on the East Coast we live through four seasons, you know?
• 37:40
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 37:40
  Speaker: And you see how nature, sometimes it's full blast on, right?
• 37:46
  Speaker: Full growth mode in the spring, and woo-hoo, like all showy, like, for the early summer.
• 37:52
  Speaker: And then in the fall the leaves wither and things start cooling off and slowing down.
• 37:59
  Speaker: And then the winter it looks like absolutely nothing's happening.
• 38:02
  Speaker: But the roots are, just in the ground like soaking up the nutrients and getting ready- quietly, right?
• 38:12
  Speaker: We can't see anything happening, but they're getting ready for that burst in the spring.
• 38:17
  Speaker: And that, for me, is just such a great reminder, right?
• 38:22
  Speaker: Because we're in this society where we think, "Oh, productivity." At least I grew up with productivity, right, next to godliness.
• 38:30
  Speaker: Like, do not- Yep resting, that is laziness, that is irresponsible.
• 38:36
  Speaker: And you better earn it- And you have to- before you take- earn it.
• 38:39
  Speaker: Yes.
• 38:39
  Speaker: I mean, that is absolutely true.
• 38:41
  Speaker: And here's the truth.
• 38:42
  Speaker: You don't have to earn it.
• 38:44
  Speaker: Like- I, I mean, even God took a break, right, on the seventh day.
• 38:50
  Speaker: Right.
• 38:50
  Speaker: Or it's like, hello.
• 38:51
  Speaker: Oh, we shouldn't.
• 38:53
  Speaker: The, the, the template was set, people.
• 38:55
  Speaker: Right.
• 38:56
  Speaker: Like, take a break.
• 38:57
  Speaker: And it is so ridiculous.
• 38:59
  Speaker: And, you know, I do say about life is not a test, it's a gift, and if you think about that, like, how are you receiving the gift of life?
• 39:07
  Speaker: Hmm.
• 39:08
  Speaker: Like, think about it as somebody lit- literally giving you a present.
• 39:12
  Speaker: How are you receiving it?
• 39:14
  Speaker: I think receiving is also in the same category as rest.
• 39:18
  Speaker: It's- Yes not something that we are, taught is important, and I know I've spent a lot of time examining receiving, so I love that you mention that specifically.
• 39:29
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 39:29
  Speaker: Me too.
• 39:30
  Speaker: I mean, like, the whole, "Oh, you shouldn't have," when someone- Mm-hmm you know, does something nice for you or they offer to help, and you're like, "No, no, I got this," because we think doing it ourselves means that, you know, we're succeeding.
• 39:43
  Speaker: Right.
• 39:44
  Speaker: That's...
• 39:44
  Speaker: We don't need help.
• 39:45
  Speaker: We're independent.
• 39:46
  Speaker: That's what we're supposed to be.
• 39:47
  Speaker: We could unpack a whole episode just on that, the effect on- Right you and the person who's giving.
• 39:52
  Speaker: That's really interesting.
• 39:53
  Speaker: Um, before we, wrap up and tell folks where to find you and all those good things, I'd like to go back to how you identify yourself as the, authentic joy rebel and lover of life.
• 40:06
  Speaker: I'm wondering if you could say a little bit about that and what does living a joyful life mean to you today?
• 40:12
  Speaker: Oh.
• 40:13
  Speaker: Well, first of all, I owe a big thank you to Jennifer Liss, who I've been working with, and, um, because that- I love Jennifer Liss, yeah.
• 40:21
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 40:22
  Speaker: Um, she's all about having fun- Mm-hmm and, um, letting your joy lead, and so she's been a, just a great role model for me, and has really helped me embrace that more.
• 40:34
  Speaker: And so that authentic joy rebel lover of life is, brand new.
• 40:39
  Speaker: I just put that out there, and I love it.
• 40:41
  Speaker: Because it is, to me, it is rebellious, right?
• 40:45
  Speaker: To say, "You know what?
• 40:46
  Speaker: No.
• 40:47
  Speaker: I'm not here to prove anything to anybody else.
• 40:49
  Speaker: I'm here to actually enjoy my life.
• 40:51
  Speaker: That's it." I don't care what anyone else says.
• 40:54
  Speaker: I'm here to enjoy this life that is a gift.
• 40:58
  Speaker: And that is such a different way to live, and still makes me uncomfortable sometimes, but it is such a breath of fresh air, right?
• 41:10
  Speaker: Like- What an amazing North Star, you know?
• 41:12
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 41:13
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 41:15
  Speaker: I mean, it's, it's nuts.
• 41:17
  Speaker: Like, we have it so wrong.
• 41:19
  Speaker: We're all about, "I gotta prove.
• 41:22
  Speaker: I gotta show people that I'm worthy of their love." That's not love, right?
• 41:29
  Speaker: As you pointed out earlier, if you've gotta prove it, that's not love.
• 41:32
  Speaker: If you gotta- No earn it, no.
• 41:34
  Speaker: So the really interesting thing is that when we actually take the wheel, you know, we get in the driver's seat of our own life and we take the wheel and we're like, "Okay, joy is my direction"- The really interesting thing about that is that you end up feeling more loved than ever because you are living the life you're meant to live, you will attract the people that are meant to be in your life, that appreciate you, not what you can do for them.
• 42:08
  Speaker: And it's an utterly different experience.
• 42:12
  Speaker: Highly recommend it.
• 42:13
  Speaker: I love that so much, and the thought that comes to me, and it's not an apples to apples comparison- Mm but, I used to live in a very big city, and there were a lot of homeless people asking for money.
• 42:26
  Speaker: Mm.
• 42:26
  Speaker: And I noticed that the better I felt about myself, and if I was in joy, the more I naturally wanted to give.
• 42:38
  Speaker: And it doesn't mean that I was able to give money to every single person, but whether it was a blessing, whether it was a cup of coffee, whether it was money.
• 42:45
  Speaker: When I am in my own churn of exhaustion, I don't have capacity for the other.
• 42:53
  Speaker: Yep.
• 42:54
  Speaker: It's kinda like, "Dude, deal with it.
• 42:56
  Speaker: We're all having this hard life," you know?
• 42:58
  Speaker: And it's like there's a cl- I'm making up words as I go, closed offedness, um, like a disconnect.
• 43:05
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 43:05
  Speaker: So anyway, that, that thought popped in and I do think the more that we're in joy, the more we, we can show up 100%.
• 43:13
  Speaker: I've had the same experience, and I remember feeling so uncomfortable, like when I was in not a great space and I would see those people, I would feel guilty and also like, "No." Like I am resent you for asking.
• 43:32
  Speaker: Yeah, I'm spent.
• 43:33
  Speaker: And when I was- Yeah when I got to really good places, yeah, I agree, I don't always give, but I, I smile at them.
• 43:40
  Speaker: I make eye contact or I'll give 'em money, but there's no, none of that like inner turmoil about it.
• 43:46
  Speaker: You're just like- Yeah "I love you.
• 43:48
  Speaker: I want the best for you." Even if you just think it while you're driving by.
• 43:52
  Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
• 43:53
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 43:54
  Speaker: So- I'm curious, in terms of the people who are listening to this and they're like, "Ugh, I wanna be a joy rebel.
• 44:00
  Speaker: I want more of Carmen in my life," Where can, where can people find you?
• 44:05
  Speaker: What do you have out in the world?
• 44:07
  Speaker: What would you like to share with listeners?
• 44:08
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 44:09
  Speaker: Um, so as you mentioned, I am writing on Substack, so that is where you can read, various articles that I write.
• 44:17
  Speaker: Highly recommend.
• 44:18
  Speaker: Ah, thank you.
• 44:19
  Speaker: And, I do have a circle, called the Soul Love Circle.
• 44:23
  Speaker: Mm.
• 44:23
  Speaker: Um, and that is really been...
• 44:27
  Speaker: It's been morphing a little bit, and so the description I think I need to, to revisit.
• 44:31
  Speaker: But that is really a place for women to come to kinda process what's going on in their lives because I've, for myself, uh, journaling, writing things down, and also speaking aloud in a safe space, has really helped me, move forward in my life.
• 44:49
  Speaker: Because I feel like when we just, like, keep our thoughts in our head, they just, they just swirl around, right?
• 44:55
  Speaker: And we don't take action on them because we don't get clear on what's, what's going on.
• 44:59
  Speaker: And as soon as, we take the time and we write things down and we...
• 45:03
  Speaker: And then even more powerfully, if we get a chance to speak them aloud, It just brings clarity and empowers us, right?
• 45:11
  Speaker: Like, "Oh, okay.
• 45:11
  Speaker: Yeah, I know exactly what I need to do next." Um, yeah.
• 45:15
  Speaker: So I have that circle.
• 45:16
  Speaker: There's something magical that happens in community.
• 45:19
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 45:20
  Speaker: In a community where it is safe to do that.
• 45:22
  Speaker: 'Cause I'm a big proponent of journaling, and that's all fabulous.
• 45:25
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 45:25
  Speaker: But as you say, there's something about with others bearing witness who are holding the same intention for you.
• 45:31
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 45:32
  Speaker: Uh, there's a special alchemy.
• 45:35
  Speaker: I don't know what that is, so- I agree.
• 45:37
  Speaker: I agree I love that you have that out in the world.
• 45:38
  Speaker: Yeah, and I've had people say that too.
• 45:40
  Speaker: They're like, "I just love coming and journaling with other people," which I never thought of really before, but it...
• 45:47
  Speaker: You're right.
• 45:47
  Speaker: It...
• 45:48
  Speaker: That community thing where we're all there to do the best for ourselves, and these are all, like, super heart-led, loving people, right, who want the best for everyone.
• 45:58
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 45:59
  Speaker: And I think that's what, if we wanna touch on the selfish thing a little bit, that is the difference.
• 46:05
  Speaker: The selfish, the negative connotation of selfish is I want the best for me regardless of what anyone else experiences.
• 46:14
  Speaker: Like, I'll step on other people to get what's best for me.
• 46:18
  Speaker: Mm-hmm.
• 46:19
  Speaker: That's not what we're talking about.
• 46:20
  Speaker: Because when you actually come from the place of, "I want the best for everyone in the world," you can't be selfish.
• 46:28
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 46:29
  Speaker: You know?
• 46:29
  Speaker: Like, but you have to put your feelings first so you can do what's aligned for you, and then you get to show up for everyone else.
• 46:37
  Speaker: Um, but yeah, so when you have women that are all of that, "I want the best for everyone," and, "I'm doing my best here," and I...
• 46:46
  Speaker: yeah, sometimes I get a little confused about what to do next, so we're gonna sit here, and we're gonna write about it.
• 46:51
  Speaker: And, you know, if we get a, get the time, it's small enough group, which it is right now, we get to share out loud, and it's super powerful.
• 46:59
  Speaker: That's amazing.
• 47:00
  Speaker: Is there any final thought that you wanna leave with listeners or anything that I didn't touch on that you'd like to share before we close?
• 47:09
  Speaker: Well, one, I will mention that you can find all the things at carmenwalsh.com.
• 47:15
  Speaker: Oh, right.
• 47:15
  Speaker: Of course.
• 47:16
  Speaker: I have all my links there before I forget.
• 47:18
  Speaker: And then yeah, I just...
• 47:21
  Speaker: You know, I wanna encourage people, and I talk mainly to women, and I think this probably applies to men too, but we'll speak to women mainly, is remember that you were given this life.
• 47:35
  Speaker: You.
• 47:37
  Speaker: You're not here to serve other people.
• 47:40
  Speaker: You're here to experience this life in whatever way feels best to you.
• 47:48
  Speaker: Mm-hmm.
• 47:49
  Speaker: That, there's your responsibility, is to make the most of this gift you've been given And when you think about that, regardless of what your beliefs are, like whether you believe in God, whether you believe in uni- whatever, if you think about life as a gift and you're like, "Okay, I wanna honor this gift.
• 48:17
  Speaker: I wanna say thank you for this gift The way you say thank you is to live your best freaking life That's it That is so good.
• 48:29
  Speaker: That is so good.
• 48:30
  Speaker: Well, thank you for being a gift to this podcast and to this community.
• 48:35
  Speaker: I've really enjoyed connecting with you, but also redefining so many of the things that limit us, all of the lies that we hold around responsibility and redefining selfishness, redefining self-care, showing up, being of service, all of those things.
• 48:51
  Speaker: It's just so juicy, so just thank you.
• 48:54
  Speaker: Thank you for being here.
• 48:55
  Speaker: Oh, thank you so much for having me.
• 48:57
  Speaker: This was such a joyful conversation to have.
• 49:00
  Speaker: I enjoyed it so much.
• 49:05
  Tania: Thanks for listening to Banish The Lies.
• 49:07
  Tania: If today's episode resonated with you, take a moment to let it settle in.
• 49:11
  Tania: And maybe share it with a friend who could use it too.
• 49:14
  Tania: Lies, lose their power when we're brave enough to challenge them.
• 49:18
  Tania: I'm Tania Cervoni, and until next time, be kind to yourself.
• 49:23
  Tania: And remember, you're not broken, you're not alone, and you don't have to stay stuck.