Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #252 - For Azeroth!: "Content Creation Now and into the Future"

Transcript

#252 - For Azeroth!: "Content Creation Now and into the Future" · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

0:00
Hello and welcome to an episode of four as off that, I didn't
0:04
really want to make. I have to inform for those of
0:08
you who are not in the Discord, or don't follow us on social
0:10
media that live has parted ways with the show, she'll still be
0:14
around joining in the conversation in the Discord on
0:18
social media. And as a regular contributor for
0:21
rail maintenance, so do look around for her there and wish
0:25
her the best. As for myself I unfortunately
0:29
have Some pressing in real life issues which includes finding
0:34
myself a job. That means that the show is
0:38
going to go on a brief Hiatus while I figure out the next
0:41
steps and focus on the job search.
0:45
However, this March is a big milestone for for Azeroth.
0:49
That will be five years since Joss, the legend herself first
0:54
brought this show back after its initial hiatus.
0:58
And so I am going to try and do something big with a new format
1:03
and with a couple of goodies for you guys that I hope to be
1:06
sharing with you soon. However, for today, I'm going to
1:09
share a interview that I had the pleasure of doing with Jessica
1:13
Downey and my co-host Lex over at my other podcast going IRL.
1:18
This is an interview where Jessica explained how she went
1:22
through her career in content creation making it something of
1:26
a profession. And all the places that she has
1:30
been before, becoming the marketing manager of Warcraft,
1:33
for Blizzard Entertainment, Colin, don't forget an alias for
1:47
the sin Dora for the alliance. For Azeroth.
1:57
My name is Jess, Downey. I am the digital marketing
2:00
manager of all the warcraft. So I handle a social or World of
2:05
Warcraft. Yeah, congratulations on the new
2:08
position. Thank you.
2:11
It really feels like you have found the exact position you
2:14
should be in. This seems so much you.
2:17
Thank you. I agree as for us.
2:20
I'm many also known as the True Villain Manny.
2:22
I am one of the hosts of this show going IRL.
2:26
You may Also nobody from or as her off and around the world
2:30
Warcraft universe and of course, Lex introduce yourself, I'm Lex.
2:34
I'm also one of the hosts of the show and team divided, which is
2:38
on its way back. And yeah, I spend all of my time
2:42
making tick-tocks and playing World of Warcraft and not
2:45
getting enough sleep. So, the one thing that all of us
2:51
have in common is that we've been in content creation and
2:55
really, that's what this The conversation is about, so this
2:59
thank you for joining us, really.
3:01
You have been through just starting up being working
3:06
through the industry. And now you're on this end,
3:09
where people are now interviewing you about various
3:11
things. So, you know, all the angles,
3:14
all the aspects, and really wanted to mine some of that.
3:19
Yes. Absolutely.
3:20
Mine away. So the first question is, what
3:24
was the inspiration that actually got you into content
3:27
Creation in the first place? Well, short answer for
3:33
podcasting specifically because that's where I started.
3:35
Kevin Smith. I was a huge Kevin Smith.
3:38
He had a podcast, I think it's still going but I was a huge fan
3:42
back in the day. I had radio broadcast
3:45
experience. I went to school for that for a
3:47
little while. I had audio editing experience
3:51
because I really wanted to be a rock star.
3:53
That's still going to pan out probably at some point any day.
3:57
Now I had a degree in theater and a back.
3:59
And singing voice work. So, it was kind of perfect and
4:03
obviously, my favorite thing back then and obviously still is
4:08
now is World of Warcraft. So, you know, doing a Warcraft
4:12
show was a no-brainer and convert to raid was my favorite
4:16
show back in the day. I wanted to produce shows.
4:18
Just like Pat Crane and eventually did become the
4:22
co-host of convert to raid many years later and that's still one
4:25
of my proudest achievements. Bothering Pat crane on a weekly
4:28
basis. So you started off initially
4:33
with lacking balls, or did you attempt to do anything else
4:37
before that? That was the first real Endeavor
4:43
into into content creation for real?
4:45
Yeah, back in 2015. I think.
4:49
Okay. And then, of course, going from
4:52
there, one thing that you've always made clear is that you've
4:56
had this love of music, you can't.
5:00
Bring up lyrics and talk about different things and I think at
5:03
one point you had put up a video about your ill-fated going
5:08
through music videos. Yeah I was working on a little
5:15
Home Project, a little series last summer where I was going to
5:19
go through all of my old, favorite music videos and you
5:22
know, offer a bits of information about the song and
5:25
the video but mostly just poke fun at it.
5:29
That kind of feel. Through, but I wouldn't say it's
5:30
off the table in the future, but, but yeah, I the issue I
5:35
have is that I can talk about old music, trivia day and night
5:41
easily. I can write really funny jokes
5:44
about classic rock stars like Sting and Rod Stewart easily.
5:49
That's Pete. Comedy to me, for some reason.
5:51
And that absolutely does not translate in most cases
5:54
especially in video game, content creation.
5:57
So I Yeah, I, you know, I would definitely think about doing
6:02
content around music someday but but yeah, yeah, that's it's a
6:08
problem has like your love of music, influence your content
6:12
creation and other ways other than creating a podcast directly
6:16
about it. Well, I I did try the rock star
6:22
thing at the beginning of the show that was half.
6:24
True. That was my initial plan for my
6:27
life. It was really hard, so kind of
6:31
moved out of that one. But yeah, I would love to, you
6:37
know, create something musical at some point, it would be
6:41
really cool to, you know, start up some kind of, you know,
6:44
fantasy metal bands or like a, like a musical comedy.
6:49
Be something or other like you're tenacious D's and what
6:52
have you? That would be cool.
6:55
All right, Lily. Are there any like lessons are
6:58
moments that really stuck with you from your early projects
7:02
lessons are moments? Lots of really, really great
7:06
moments. Most of them happening at
7:08
BlizzCon obviously. But I think the biggest lesson
7:14
that I learned from my early days, I think is to take the
7:22
time to enjoy yourself in the midst of everything when you're
7:26
on the grind. Producing content as much as you
7:29
possibly can time. Can go by really fast back in
7:34
the day and I can't believe that I can call it back in the day
7:37
already. That's not cool.
7:39
I was podcasting like twice weekly about wow, working
7:43
full-time, as a content creator, for to video games, Snapchat
7:47
channels. And I remember one instance, in
7:49
particular, like I was on the train and I was researching
7:52
patch notes from the day earlier, and it was, you know,
7:55
after a full day of shooting an episode for Snapchat and I was
7:59
writing down notes because I had to jump on a live show as soon
8:02
as I got home and like I put my whole heart into into all of
8:07
that, but I really came up for air and, you know, looking back
8:10
on it now. Like so many cool things are
8:12
happening and not just like, cool shows, and and cool
8:15
content. But, you know, the feedback and
8:18
the communities, and the friends and, you know, like the Discord
8:22
channels and, and the Twitter pages and just everybody like
8:25
sharing and and I don't know becoming friends because of the
8:30
content that we are all enjoying together and producing together.
8:32
Like those were great times and I wish that I had appreciated
8:38
things like it's not always about reaching a goal, you know,
8:41
it's it's enjoying it because you know, assumably you're doing
8:45
what you're doing. Hopefully, okay.
8:48
So you're talking about the grind and doing all those shows,
8:52
is there a part of the grind that you would do differently or
8:56
that you would improve? Upon, I don't think so.
9:01
It's tough when it's tough, when you're creating content for
9:06
yourself and it's tough to know. You know what, how much of my
9:12
life am I going to throw into this?
9:15
But I wouldn't change anything at this point because it, you
9:19
know, got me to where I am now, so that's awesome.
9:23
But I guess then, the question that follows is, what lessons do
9:29
you like know now that you kind of wish you knew when you first
9:32
started out, gotcha? Okay.
9:36
This is a big one. Put your contact information
9:41
everywhere everywhere. Your links everywhere.
9:44
You never know when someone is going to be looking to
9:47
collaborate with you, trying to share your content with their
9:50
friends, like why I found this really cool podcaster this cool
9:53
show. Let me find the link and like
9:56
five minutes go by and your friends like waiting on that
9:59
link. They're like, well, I'll get it
10:00
one second. I think I saw it somewhere.
10:03
You never know if like, you know, somebody's looking to hire
10:06
somebody like you, who does that?
10:07
Things that you do, make sure your email and your links to all
10:11
of your platforms are very easily accessible like triple
10:15
dummy proof like, just right there.
10:17
It's also very smart to create like a highlight reel of your
10:20
best work. That's easily accessible.
10:22
But if I had known that back then, like I feel like I would
10:28
have opened myself up more, for more opportunities.
10:31
Not even not just for collaboration, but you know, who
10:34
knows. But I definitely was not doing
10:37
that. And now Being in a position
10:39
where I am now, you know, I want to know what the community is up
10:43
to. I want to know, like, who was an
10:45
up-and-comer, like who's tweeting like what's going on?
10:48
And if I want to show people this person or I want to get a
10:52
feel of what they do, I'm going to need to see where that is, so
10:57
that's my best, my best tips on that.
11:02
So when you realize that you could really turn content
11:06
creation from a hobby, Into a career.
11:11
Well, it's it started out slow. I think when you've decided to
11:19
convert your hobby into a job, you have to act as though.
11:24
You've got a boss who expects you to put the work in every
11:27
day, but you don't, it's just you, you have some, make your
11:32
content creation part of your lifestyle, something that you
11:36
get used to working on regularly, and Have something
11:40
you pick up when you're bored? Like a, like a normal Hobby, and
11:44
it's tough because like a hobby is usually something you do for
11:47
fun for yourself, and it doesn't matter how good you are at it,
11:51
as long as you're having fun, right?
11:54
But it could still be that way. Of course, if you decide to make
11:57
a job out of it, but it definitely can be hard to put in
12:00
the extra work and research and long hours into something that
12:04
you just, you're just doing for the lulz, you know.
12:06
So once it's tough, At first trying to make it part of your
12:12
lifestyle, but once it's something that you are doing
12:16
every single day just, you know, as a routine like, as you brush
12:20
your teeth, as you let your cat out, you know, things like that.
12:23
That's when that's when you can start considering, you know, is
12:27
could this be a career? My enjoying myself, am I turning
12:30
out the content that I want to see that I'm comfortable making?
12:34
It's got to get to that point. It's tough being you do it was
12:38
it like a moment that felt like oh like I could do this or was
12:41
it more of a kind of that like Slow Burn?
12:48
I feel like I get really enthusiastic about things so
12:51
maybe I'm not the best person to ask for that question.
12:54
But you know, once you start having fun and I think when you
13:00
start noticing that people are also having fun because of the
13:03
things that you're doing, that's when you know or at least that's
13:07
what I do, okay? Like once then people started
13:11
writing into the show and being like who so like shakes How long
13:17
were you doing lagging balls before you started?
13:20
Getting those kind of emails before?
13:21
It's really started picking up months in the podcast Biz?
13:27
I'm sure you guys are aware. Like, the old saying, is, if you
13:30
get past episode 10, you're fine.
13:34
It's very slow, especially for podcasting.
13:36
And I'm saying this, as somebody who started in 2015, I'm very
13:40
aware that podcasts are very much at the Forefront right now
13:43
and everybody has one and everybody should podcasts are
13:46
It's fun, but at least back then it's tough because, you know,
13:52
your best friend is listening. Usually in, your mom is
13:56
listening, she says, very good. I don't know what you're talking
13:58
about, but good job and that can be discouraging.
14:01
But like, you know, you just just consistency is key, just
14:07
keep keep pushing. That's, that's, that's the best
14:10
thing you can do, okay? And so, shifting, gears a little
14:14
bit beyond your time or Podcasting on lacking balls and
14:18
convert to raid. You also worked with like
14:19
several social media companies and visual mediums with your
14:23
time in trihard. What are some of your, like,
14:26
unique issues with those mediums and like, making that sort of
14:30
switch? Well, it was working with
14:35
trihard trihard is a Snapchat Channel and its content mainly
14:43
on Snapchat and it's still going actually.
14:46
See the most unique issue at that time.
14:50
In the early days was making sure that all content including
14:55
interviews, poles, news memes, you know, clipping little little
15:01
twitch like clips and making them kind of vertical was was
15:06
making sure all of that was suitable for vertical phone
15:09
viewing and now a tick tock obviously that's like definitely
15:12
not a unique issue anymore. But if I The day shooting
15:17
interviews with like esport players and having to stand like
15:21
extraordinarily close to them to get into frame.
15:25
That was definitely weird but that was back then I'm sure now
15:29
it's normal. Okay.
15:37
So did you find yourself starting over to build on like
15:42
each platform platform that you went to I guess for you?
15:46
You really got to transplant one following from like, let's say
15:51
lacking balls to convert to raid was the same true when you went
15:54
from convert to raid to trihard where you're able to transfer
16:00
your audience over from platform to platform, or was it really a
16:03
starting over process? Gotcha.
16:07
Well with lagging balls and converter Aid, it all kind of
16:12
became very much. The same thing the same
16:14
listeners, the same audience, which was Is fantastic.
16:18
We were really lucky the, the CTR Community was and always has
16:23
been extremely welcoming and enthusiastic.
16:29
So that was a huge. That was a huge win for for all
16:31
like and balls back in the day Tick-Tock.
16:35
Sorry on Snapchat that was very different.
16:38
It was weird. People knew me as you know the
16:42
girl from from try hard and and level up and they had no idea.
16:46
I actually was but they found out pretty quickly.
16:52
But I think in general when you have an established audience on
16:57
one platform at least concentrate on that platform
17:00
until you feel confident that you can upkeep on other
17:05
platforms. Don't commit to like a Discord
17:08
server or Tick. Tock account if you don't see
17:10
yourself, being able to keep up with the engagement and the
17:14
content production on those platforms.
17:16
Like I said, consistency is key. If you feel that you can do that
17:21
your audience will follow like just like CTR did 22 lb and I'll
17:29
be to CTR. But yeah if you can do that your
17:33
audience will follow, also listen to your audience like
17:36
where did they want you to be and then try to figure out like
17:40
what unique things you can provide on each platform that
17:43
will entice your followers so like follow And subscribe. to
17:46
yet another platform, you know, Absolutely.
17:52
What can we do and smaller content creators.
17:54
Really do to set themselves up for Success.
17:56
After going through this process of like building an audience?
18:00
Well, I kind of, I was thinking about this and I have top three
18:07
tips. This stop three tips, very easy
18:10
to say. Number one, understand that
18:14
success comes slowly. Like I said, the only way to
18:17
achieve it is to be consistent. Isn't consistent, your content
18:21
creation and consistent your growth as a Creator.
18:23
Like, if you can commit to Mondays and Thursdays you let
18:27
your audience know, Mondays and Thursdays, that's it.
18:30
And guess what? On Sunday and Wednesday, your
18:34
audience is going to be, you know, thinking dude, I can't
18:37
wait till tomorrow because that show I like is coming out and
18:41
then when it does come out there like, yes, I'm here for this and
18:44
then when it's over, it's like man, I cannot wait until Monday
18:48
and Thursday. You know, giving giving your
18:50
audience and like, I'm sure that's, that's kind of obvious.
18:53
Like I have a lot of YouTube creators and podcasters that,
18:57
you know, have a schedule and then, you know, I can apply that
18:59
to my life. So if you can have that and if
19:02
you're always trying to grow as a Creator, never said, for
19:04
yourself, always try new things. Then you're golden.
19:07
That's, that's tip number one. Tip number two, don't invest in
19:11
like, super expensive equipment yet.
19:13
I've seen so many like that was the first tip I got back in the
19:15
day, I was literally recording on.
19:19
A headset microphone in front of me, without the ears on on a
19:23
laptop in a bathroom in Chicago. Just just, don't invest in
19:29
yourself first. Like, what are you best at?
19:32
What is your unique angle? What can you bring to the table?
19:35
That nobody else can nurture that and put it into your
19:38
content. And finally and this this was
19:41
the most important one for me personally, figure out your
19:46
motivator. What motivates you to create
19:48
like Is going to motivate you to make this part of your
19:51
lifestyle. What's going to motivate you to
19:52
Be Your Own Boss, telling you to keep putting out content?
19:56
It can be anything from like satisfaction of content,
20:01
well-produced contributing to a community, sharing your
20:05
passions, working towards career goals.
20:07
Loves B jealousy. Just kidding, but but not really
20:12
like if you're having feelings of Spite and jealousy, you could
20:15
put that negative energy into your content creation and turn
20:18
out. Of results and and thus
20:21
positivity itself. I don't know, get a little deep
20:24
here but uh, but yeah. So hopefully that helps honestly
20:28
that that's all good answers. That's what we had for the
20:33
prepared questions. So at this point I'm going to
20:36
ask some questions. Obviously Alex jump in anytime
20:39
but I guess what was the hardest part of your journey?
20:43
Like what was the biggest obstacle that you've had to
20:46
overcome? I needed to learn how to.
20:54
Stop procrastinating. I've always had that problem
20:59
personally, and it's, it's not something like if you're a
21:05
hardcore procrastinator, which I always have been, it is not an
21:10
easy process to figure out how to stop doing that.
21:13
And even now I could not tell, you know, that's not true.
21:18
I think I overcame procrastination by just truly
21:21
having fun with what I was doing.
21:24
And you know, there were days where I wasn't having fun with
21:27
what I was doing and then I would be procrastinating.
21:30
And those were the days where I you know, really really felt
21:34
like I had a lot to learn and had to grow a lot.
21:39
So I think that was probably one of if not the biggest hurdle for
21:44
me because you know when you're trying to push out content
21:49
creation and that's like writing a script editing.
21:53
Audio uploading, you marketing yourself, telling everybody
21:58
about it, you know, all that stuff.
22:01
That's like a five-hour process. That's like a like a two-day
22:04
process split up. Like that's it's not fun.
22:07
You know, like recordings fun or like doing the video, like doing
22:10
the fun Parts, is are fun. But then you've got so much else
22:12
to do. And yeah.
22:14
So I think, as long as you really love what you're doing
22:19
and you can get excited about it and you have like, people around
22:22
you who are Excited about what you're doing to, that's a huge
22:25
bonus. So try to have that, you know,
22:29
go go find those people even if it's just your mom or your uncle
22:35
that's fine, it'll help. What would you say?
22:38
Was like the best part. Is it just the people around
22:41
you? Oh yeah, 100%.
22:43
Oh, just the coolest thing about World of Warcraft, there's tons
22:49
of cool things, obviously. But the coolest thing for me is
22:52
that you There's, there's so many people from so many walks
22:55
of life and World of Warcraft is so big and multifaceted.
22:58
And it's been around for such a long time that there are just
23:02
like so many people waiting in the wings seemingly to embrace
23:07
you and to be enthusiastic with you and to share like what
23:12
they're working on and to be your friend and to play games
23:14
with you. And if that's not the coolest
23:17
thing, I don't know what is, and of course like it all culminates
23:19
in Bliss, cons, right? Or like your own little personal
23:22
meetups. Soooo or hanging out with your
23:24
ray team, but, you know, back in the day, like even just hanging
23:27
out on Discord. So much fun.
23:30
Yes, definitely. It's the people.
23:31
It's the people. Oh, you were talking about like
23:35
all those fun Parts, bet you're also saying that there were
23:37
stuff outside of the fun parts that you have to do.
23:41
And I've heard a lot of people say that like, sometimes it's as
23:44
much about what you do outside of your show, outside of the
23:48
twitch stream or outside of the podcast that helps make your
23:53
path through. What would you say are like the
23:55
more important things that you should be doing outside of
23:59
actually the creation of the content?
24:02
Gotcha, well, if you can so the super boring part.
24:09
Well, maybe that's not true because I find it actually
24:11
pretty interesting, but learning how to Market yourself?
24:15
Can be extremely beneficial, you know, like I said, making your
24:20
information very, very easily to find making it so that your
24:26
community knows exactly when, and how they can reach you and
24:29
watch it, watch your show or listen to Your show and have you
24:33
but just kind of figure out like what your demographic is, where
24:37
your audience is hanging out. What they want to hear how they
24:41
consume their media, all of those things like knowing those
24:44
things can help a lot. I got a piece of advice from Pat
24:48
crane back in the day and he said, you know, if possible if
24:52
somebody asks you to collab, Say, yes, you know, if you can,
24:57
but, you know, try to say yes to every opportunity and I really,
25:02
I really ran with that and, you know, it it's, it can start out
25:06
as, you know, ask your own small show collabing with another
25:10
small show, and then that Community gets to know you and
25:15
vice versa. And then, you know, suddenly
25:17
you're collabing with a bigger show.
25:19
Maybe you're doing a guest appearance somewhere else and
25:21
that Community comes in and, you know, it's and it's not just
25:25
about Audience groans. It's also about your own
25:27
personal growth because meeting these creators working with them
25:31
and inviting them to bring like what they have to the table.
25:34
That's you learning, you know, like it's tough when you're on
25:38
your own as a Creator because you're typically not in an
25:40
office setting where you're working with many talented
25:42
people from lots of different backgrounds, you don't have
25:45
that. So you have to make sure that
25:46
you're open to those opportunities and that people
25:49
know that they can come to you and be like, hey, I saw you
25:52
collabing with this show. I love that show.
25:54
Do you want to be on my show? A show and you're like, yes, new
25:57
friend, teach me what you know, you know, who do you know, what,
26:01
do you know, what are you doing? And, you know, that's also
26:04
really great way to make friends, which is the ultimate
26:06
goal. How things changed for you, as
26:11
you transition from like a brand-new, small hobbyist, like
26:14
how you're like, thinking about things to a more established
26:18
content creator, oh, well, I had to think a lot about what I was
26:26
putting out at first it was It was like, this is a good idea.
26:32
Probably, I'll just try it, you know, like I'll just put
26:35
anything out there. Listening to your to your own
26:38
content like at the beginning. Like many years later, it's
26:43
pretty cringe, but you have to Pat yourself on the back because
26:46
that's that's the hardest part, right?
26:49
But as you as you go, hopefully you're learning and trying new
26:56
things and eventually you just have to be a little bit more
27:00
thoughtful about what you're putting out and kind of how you
27:06
are presenting yourself and your content.
27:08
It's it's easy for your community or anybody on the
27:14
internet to kind of get the wrong impression of you based on
27:17
what you're saying and doing or how you're coming off and your
27:20
content and just really think about that.
27:23
Like like, like look at your own content pretend you're somebody
27:27
else and and one Like what would I think of me if I wasn't me
27:31
listening to this, like if I had absolutely no idea who this
27:34
person was and you're listening to this person, how do they come
27:37
off? And that's and that's something
27:40
that I learned like I definitely did sound a little too
27:45
nonchalant back in the day and you know once I kind of figured
27:48
out who I wanted to be and how I wanted people to perceive me, it
27:53
got a lot easier to kind of stick to that.
27:56
I won't say character because I was definitely just being
27:58
myself. if but, you know, better version, I guess Um we've all
28:05
had those like reviews where somebody is just taking it
28:09
Taking it to you or whatever. How do you like?
28:13
How do you deal with those reviews?
28:14
Are you looking at the message and trying to find the truth in
28:17
it? Do you just say, forget the
28:19
haters. Like how how do you respond to
28:22
some of the negative feedback that you might get?
28:25
Gotcha, the friend. Sorry, the first negative review
28:31
I ever got personally from from the lb podcast was was all true.
28:39
This person pegged me and this, you know, it kind of Leans into
28:43
what I was just saying. I decided to record my podcast,
28:49
after I got severely tilted about something and game.
28:52
And I decided, you know, a fun rant about being tilted in game
28:57
because of other people in game solid A+ content.
29:02
It's not. It is it.
29:04
And, you know, I thought that I was being kind of funny.
29:08
I thought that, you know, people would want to hear me be super
29:11
angry and tilted They don't typically and and also a most
29:15
importantly like that's not how I wanted to come off ever.
29:18
I did not I didn't want to come off as a - video game player or
29:25
- video game fan or a negative person in general and this this
29:30
negative review on, you know, exactly what I had said on my
29:35
own show was absolutely true. It was very biting.
29:38
There's a lot of language that probably didn't need to be
29:41
there, but the person Right? And I owned up to it on the next
29:46
show, you know I said look I mess up, I shouldn't have
29:50
recorded in that moment. That was dumb of me and I don't
29:52
want anybody to think of me like that so I apologize and this
29:57
this reviews is absolutely true. You know you'll get scathing
30:01
reviews that aren't true but then you just kind of have to I
30:06
think I think as a human with emotions like we all are it's
30:12
it's easy. Me too, to see all of the
30:14
positive feedback that you get on something and think.
30:18
Okay, cool. I'm doing okay.
30:20
And then you see one negative review, true or not, could be
30:23
just somebody's opinion, and all of a sudden, like, that's the
30:26
only review that matters. Like, that's the only review
30:29
that's like making you feel anything.
30:32
And it's, I think, I personally, I don't know how to beat that
30:40
feeling because I still get it sometimes.
30:42
But, You know, once you've calmed down and you're in a
30:46
place a couple days later where you can objectively look at at
30:49
this review without feeling too emotionally, terrible about it,
30:54
you know, tried to to read it in the third person pretend you're,
31:00
you know, a fan of your own show.
31:02
Is this true? Like, is this objectively true
31:05
or is this you know, somebody trying to be mean to me?
31:07
Or is it, you know, just somebody's opinion.
31:10
Is there anything I can gain from this?
31:12
Is there anything? I can learn from this and if
31:13
not, just don't think about it, don't read it.
31:16
Don't ever think about it again. Oh honestly, that's all the
31:22
questions that I had. Did you have any questions left?
31:28
We're like no I think I think that was that was all for me to
31:35
thank you so much. This was absurdly helpful and I
31:40
really appreciate having you on thanks for having me.
31:42
It's, it's really cool to talk about this stuff and I just I
31:47
just really appreciate it. This is so much fun.
31:49
I never get to do podcasts anymore and it's nice to flex
31:53
the old muscle. Not some ice, but it's fine.