Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Mindfulness With Matt Horsman | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #159 |

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Mindfulness With Matt Horsman | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #159 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
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  podcast. Today's guest is a life, coach
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  and author hailing. All the way from Canada.
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  His name is Matt, Horseman, welcome to the show, man.
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  Hater doing. Great question.
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  Thanks so much for having me on. It's a pleasure to have you.
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  My man, let's jump straight into you and what you're doing.
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  So how did you become a life coach talk us through your
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  journey to becoming a life coach?
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  Sure. Yeah.
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  Well, I probably about Six or seven years ago.
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  Now, I had married into a family business at a brewery and it was
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  never something I envisioned myself doing, but the work was
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  pretty fun and I enjoyed it over time.
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  I kept kind of rising up through the ranks.
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  The point where I was kind of running the one of the
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  facilities there and honestly, I was listening to a random
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  podcast who had guests on. I'd never heard before, but I'm
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  sure you've had one of these experiences where That person
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  it's like they're speaking directly to you and it's almost
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  like how the hell did you get in my head?
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  And no, I needed to hear this right now.
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  Her name was Martha back and she was a life coach.
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  And to be honest, I didn't even know life coaches existed at
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  that point. But in the back of my head, I
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  had been searching and searching and thinking, hey, I don't want
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  to be running a brewery, it's just not what I meant to do.
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  And I want to help people in some way, but I didn't know what
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  that meant. And when I started looking up,
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  what a life coach was, it was just like ding, ding, ding,
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  ding, ding, It just ticked all the boxes and the more I found
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  out about this Martha Beck woman.
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  I was just like man, I love what she does and I'd love to get
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  into that Arena. And yeah, I do of straight in
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  and within, I'd say it took about six months to kind of
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  transition out and I started thinking about okay, how can I
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  make this a reality and and made it happen and kind of drove off
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  into the deep end. Let's talk a little bit about
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  the brewery for a second where So, what would you say?
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  Would like your suppose key takeaways from from doing that?
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  Mean, you do it for several years?
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  Obviously, it's part of a family business.
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  So there is a heavy sort of commitment to that.
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  I suppose a pressure. Almost, I did you throw any
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  pressure as of doing that or? Yeah.
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  Absolutely. And it's funny because that was
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  what my, the first I'd say three or four months of my coaching
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  Journey, that's who I coached was.
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  People who grew up in a family business.
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  Because I knew the insane amount of pressure.
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  I mean I didn't grow up in one but my wife did and I married
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  into one so I knew that yeah like we were we would have been
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  second generation but I talk to people who are even third,
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  fourth generation. Like that's an insane amount of
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  pressure to have on your shoulders to be thinking.
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  Okay I need to do this to carry on the Legacy right?
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  You feel this duty but it the best way I heard a comparison to
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  kind of put it in perspective. It's like A lot of people in the
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  west would never consider an arranged marriage, right?
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  Like that, it seems so foreign to us, right?
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  But but family, businesses and arranged career and a lot of
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  people don't really look at it that way, they go.
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  Oh that's so much opportunity. You're having things handed to
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  you don't have to work for and it's like no no when you when
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  you sick like you married into a family.
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  But so like okay you find this this wonderful woman you become
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  because they become married. You choose to marry her but
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  yeah. Like I mean, you don't have
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  enough Force to get into it. Like, I mean, how how exactly
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  does that work? How do you find yourself having
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  to get involved in the family business?
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  Well, for us, it was actually started working at the brewery
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  and met her. Yeah, alright, so and we were,
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  we were the last two people to know that we liked each other.
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  That's kind of sweet. Wow, actually Lee this raises
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  quite a few questions. We'll get back to life coaching
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  in a second. I just want to kind of explore
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  this for a bit because I think it's alright interesting.
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  Would you say? Did it.
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  Okay, so you joined this place, it's a job.
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  And we've heard many times over the years, how, you know, you
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  shouldn't necessarily day in the workplace, they take your
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  co-workers, I mean, and it's relative that some people, you
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  know, they get married and they live happily ever after there's
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  no problems. Some people work really well
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  together. You know, I've had it before
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  where, you know, you you can work because I think that's an
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  important distinction, isn't it? Being with someone and working
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  with someone two, very different things.
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  You can have a wonderful relationship with someone but
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  you might not necessarily be able to What with them?
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  Because a lot of times, it comes down to, I suppose,
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  compatibility of work, Styles and attitude, several other
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  factors did a thought crossed your mind like, hmm.
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  Maybe this isn't a good idea especially since well, because
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  especially since like, she's the daughter I suppose of the
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  owners. Yeah, there are.
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  Yeah. So, what was going through your
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  head initially? Did that go for you?
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  Oh, that crossed my mind. Almost daily for a while.
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  Yeah. Is this at Terrible idea.
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  But it was interesting. When we first started dating was
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  actually I left the company for a year or so my back to school,
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  okay? So our relationship really began
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  when we weren't working together all, and to be truthful, we had
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  such different roles at the company that we might as well
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  been working at different companies.
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  Okay, I was more on the production side of things and
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  she was in marketing, so she was upstairs and I was downstairs,
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  if that makes sense. As the business progressed, did
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  you, or your time spent at the business?
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  Was there any moments where? Because, and the only reason I
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  ask this is because, like, for instance, I've seen a lot of
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  shows at reality shows. I know there's a bad comparison
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  because there's no reality reality TV, let's play sir.
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  But you see shows like, I don't know, Gordon Gordon Ramsay's
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  Kitchen Nightmares or the hotel show that he didn't you see that
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  sometimes, like, couples that have formed a business together,
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  There's many examples of where the couple is absolutely fine
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  and it's just a business, that's the problem or the struggling of
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  setting up, but sometimes you get instances where the stress
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  of the business and trying to make it work, actually kind of
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  Tears them apart so to speak and actually causes problems with
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  their relationship. I suppose, I've got to but
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  question here in the sense that I know you've already said that,
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  you weren't working in the same sphere, but whether any point
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  where any crossover periods, where you were working sort of
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  side-by-side or, Or fairly close to one another and if so did it
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  cause friction, where there any issues and if so how did you
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  overcome them right now? We never really crossed fears in
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  our work day but one of the things and ultimately it was one
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  of the reasons I got out of it was we are always taking work
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  home with us right? At that point when you're so
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  involved and and, and like you said, like there's that pressure
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  there, right? It's more than just a job.
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  At that point. There's there's family Dynamics
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  involved. Yeah it's just you can't escape
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  it because you go to a family dinner it's there and even if
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  you make a conscious effort not to talk about it, that doesn't
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  mean everyone else is tables making that same effort.
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  So it there was a we couldn't find the line and that was
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  ultimately, it didn't it didn't cause friction between us.
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  I think we were very lucky to be on the same page that we were.
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  Both becoming disinterested in it that it was just too much and
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  and she had actually decided for a much earlier age that she
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  didn't want to take the business over.
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  So that was kind of always on her mind and me I was less
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  certain I was starting to think like okay, maybe maybe I do one
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  day step into that role but then ultimately it was like okay this
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  this isn't for us, we were offered the role no not formally
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  and that's that's an interesting point because When I worked with
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  people who grew up in the family business, succession planning is
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  a conversation that often doesn't happen, right?
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  There's a lot of assumptions on both ends of the conversation so
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  that was something I always advised was asked the question
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  is you don't want to assume something and then years later
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  all of a sudden, it sold off to a cousin or something.
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  The base is still going parts of it, actually, right before.
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  Or we had left that actually sold off that I worked at.
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  So her parents, I mean, they face that they went.
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  Okay, that's not going to be sold or it's not to be passed
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  down to a child. So they openly ultimately decide
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  to sell it. If you could share any kind of
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  lessons from that time, maybe to other people in a similar
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  situation, what would they be? I think the biggest one is that
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  you're not alone, the family business, it tends to breed such
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  an insider versus Outsider mentality that if you're not
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  part of the family, there's you're just not part of the
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  group and it can be really toxic.
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  But that's one thing that I really focus on making sure
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  people understood is that there are a lot of other people out
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  there and very similar situations, even though it's not
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  the norm in the west to grow. The family business, I mean
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  something like 70 to 80% of businesses.
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  Here are family businesses, whether you realize it or not.
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  So there are lots of kids out there that grew up in them.
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  So yeah, there are plenty of resources out there to connect
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  with people in similar situations and kind of.
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  Yeah, just just help you remember that there are
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  solutions and people that can help you with them.
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  Spoke about toxic situations and that inside a kind of US versus
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  them mentality. What can this list?
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  Press on that a little bit more. What, what can you tell us about
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  your experiences of maybe things that you saw the 10K or for
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  instance, where there any situations where people applied?
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  And it was just like, no, no chance.
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  They're not getting in my wall. Can you share of the maybe not
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  so pleasant areas of that. Yeah, to be honest, nothing
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  nothing Insidious comes to mind, but it was just a lot of
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  pressure internally, right? Because I mean, especially early
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  on and even to the end I was privy to conversations that
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  normally wouldn't have been, right?
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  So did that, it was a lot of mental work to be able to go
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  like okay, wait a minute what am I able to share?
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  What am I not able to share when you started dating?
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  You know, wife did you stop becoming more privy so yeah
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  because yeah, right. So they were like always part of
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  families that's okay. Yeah.
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  I mean it took a little bit for the Of course, the warm months
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  of you as much as she did. Yeah.
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  Just by Nature by osmosis even just by nature of being around.
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  You were kind of let in on this information that you normally
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  would never have even thought to ask let alone had access to.
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  So with your life coaching as you said, you help people who
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  are in similar situations, so how exactly do you help them?
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  Now that's that was my niece when I start it.
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  So I've sent to transition transition.
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  And out of that, I still have a couple of clients that that we
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  met, we interface through the family business, kind of Arena.
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  But there were, when I was coaching people in the family
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  business realm, I realized it kind of came knocking sooner
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  than I answered the door, but the the not kept getting louder
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  and louder and what it was saying was the part.
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  I love the most about family business coaching wasn't
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  anything to do with the family business.
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  It was actually revolving around mindfulness and because family
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  business, you have to understand 80 to 90% of our conversations,
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  actually had nothing to do with the family business.
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  When I was coaching these people, right?
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  Because that's just one aspect of their lives.
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  It's a big one, but they're human just like everyone else
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  and they have multi-faceted interests and issues, and and
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  mindfulness is never anything I set out to coach about, but it
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  just kept popping up in the conversations.
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  So eventually, I answered the door and I was like, okay, I
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  gotta lean into this. And since then, the Spend a
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  complete 180 and family business essentially dropped out of the
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  picture and mindfulness has been the focus one of your biggest.
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  Success stories been so far with your life coaching.
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  Honestly there has been so many moments where I've thought to
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  myself you know what if this whole thing falls apart tomorrow
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  it will have been worth it life coaching it how long you been
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  doing it for Almost a year now. But that but there's but there's
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  already been so many moments. This is such a unique and
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  Powerful relationship. When I first heard the term life
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  coach, I assumed. Like I'm sure most people do
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  that life coaches are advice dispensing, machines that you
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  have a problem and you come to a life coach for a solution and
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  that's not the case at all. I remember when I was taking my
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  training, they're actually saying like stay 10 feet away
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  from giving advice, ever. Oh, was like, well, what the
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  hell do you mean? Like, My supposed to do and and
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  really the relationship is about creating a space where the
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  client obviously brings forward, whatever is on their mind and
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  really is a life coach. What you're doing most is
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  listening and you're asking some powerful questions that Force
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  the client to kind of think with a different perspective or kind
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  of even if you just give them the space to kind of untangle
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  their own thoughts. Like talking out loud to a Sure.
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  But what's going on in your life can be extremely helpful.
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  Just because so often we're running around with these ideas.
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  Tangled up in our head, we never talked about it, right?
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  And they get all twisted up. Can't make heads or tails of it,
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  but just the very Act of speaking out loud, to someone
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  about it who has no active stake in your situation can be
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  extremely helpful to me, I can because I've had like a
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  therapist on the show before and to me life coaching.
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  Does seem to Bear. Some resemblance is to that,
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  like what? What if any would you say other
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  kind of major differences between life coaching versus
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  just going to therapy? Sure.
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  Yeah. Well the best analogy I ever
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  heard was therapy, therapists are like, archaeologists and
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  life. Coaches are like Architects.
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  Interesting. So so therapy, kind of spend
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  some more time digging around in the past, right?
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  And as a life coach, I Frankly, I have little to no interest in
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  your past, obviously, some is required for context.
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  But the thing I'm most concerned, actually, chiefly
• 15:27
  concerned about is, where are you now, where do you want to be
• 15:31
  and how do we get there? Okay, and that other anything.
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  What any particular ways unique to you that you've sort of built
• 15:40
  as your process that you kind of give to people like hey this is
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  this is how it works with me. This is what we're going to do.
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  Yeah, so I mean, it is a life coach.
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  I always walk a fine line between having a system per se
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  and I'll put it this way. I always give the client the
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  opportunity to just wing it. It.
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  God, I don't have to teach you anything, right?
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  Just come to me whatever you want to talk about and we'll
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  figure it out. And honestly I've had intro
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  calls where 10 to 15 minutes in the client, the / potential
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  client is already having an oh shit moment and I love those,
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  you know what I mean? Like, you can see it in their
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  eyes and you can hear it in the pause.
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  Just I'll ask a question that really makes them go like oh
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  man. Oh fuck.
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  I didn't think of it that way and it just kind of cracks.
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  Something open that. Helps them.
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  Look at it, A New Perspective, but if it if I do have a system
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  per se, the thing I've been focusing on the most with
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  mindfulness is really distilling it down into something
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  intimidation free and insanely practical.
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  So a lot of people mindfulness and meditation are the same
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  thing. When they think of mindfulness,
• 16:54
  they think of meditating, which is not the case.
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  Meditation is a form of mindfulness, but A lot of people
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  get hung up on this idea that they need to have a 20 minute a
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  day, meditation Habit to enjoy the benefits of mindfulness,
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  right? And what I remind them is that
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  mindfulness is, it's, as simple as you let it be like, I give
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  the example, like, if you walk up to a mirror, look at yourself
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  and say, hi, like, that's something just weird enough to
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  kind of snap you out of autopilot.
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  And you're, you're very awake in that moment, right?
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  You're tuned in. And that's what mindfulness is.
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  It's just In little bits of time, throughout your day, to
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  kind of snap out of autopilot and go like, oh shit.
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  Okay, I'm here. What's going on?
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  What am I doing? Do I want to be doing this?
• 17:40
  All right, I'm moving on. What do you think with so
• 17:48
  unmindful, not mine. Why would you say that?
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  Many of us? Could find ourselves kind of
• 17:53
  stuck on autopilot? Like, what will, why are we What
• 17:58
  we missing the could make us more mindful, right?
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  Yeah. Well, I think it's just the
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  nature of our culture. Nowadays, everything is so fast
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  paced. I mean, I love the example.
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  You look at movies and I'm going to fudge the numbers here a bit.
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  But I think today, the average shot in a film is in the S,
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  right? It's like say three to seven
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  seconds before they change the shot and back in the day.
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  It Be like a minute and a half, right?
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  And, and that's just the way that everything's kind of geared
• 18:32
  towards us now is trying to keep our attention and actually
• 18:37
  called the attention economy, right?
• 18:41
  So for example, like, how many of our streaming platforms, have
• 18:44
  an autoplay feature now, where I looked up on, I think it was
• 18:48
  YouTube actually read up on their kind of agreement.
• 18:51
  That said, yeah, we encourage a laid-back experience, so we
• 18:55
  press the play button for you. And again how generous of you
• 18:59
  right Haley doing us a service member which I pay is, maybe
• 19:03
  it's reels or Facebook was but there was a point where I hadn't
• 19:08
  had that feature turned off. So automatically skip to the
• 19:11
  next video after the first one was done.
• 19:12
  Is that hang on? I want to yeah interact look at
• 19:15
  things investigate. Yeah they don't cheer for me.
• 19:18
  I'm not a toddler but that's the way things are geared now and so
• 19:24
  media is a big one. There's just So much content out
• 19:29
  there. So it's so easy to get go down a
• 19:31
  rabbit hole with whatever screens in front of you but but
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  media is only one of them really?
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  I mean in in my practice I talk about four things that keep you
• 19:41
  on autopilot. So media is one of them, the
• 19:46
  past is a big one kind of going over regrets and what ifs?
• 19:51
  The future is another one worrying about it, right?
• 19:54
  And trying to control outcomes and predict everything.
• 19:58
  And then others. So getting caught up in what
• 20:01
  other people think of you, their opinions expectations.
• 20:05
  Those four things they take you outside of yourself, right?
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  Or outside of the present moment.
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  And, and I always say you don't want to get rid of those things,
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  right? Like autopilot itself is very,
• 20:18
  very useful. I mean, if we didn't like it
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  would be God damn exhausting to try to be tuned in all the time.
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  Like the the goal isn't to become the next Buddha, right?
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  It's to kind of take moments to step back and and ask when
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  autopilot is serving us, right? Because it can serve us and it's
• 20:38
  our default state for a reason. But if we if we let it run our
• 20:41
  lives and sooner or later we do check in and go oh shit, where
• 20:44
  did that hour or day or year ago right dude those the story of my
• 20:49
  life right now like I think the one no no I'm serious like I
• 20:53
  think And yeah I've always spoken about this with my
• 20:57
  friends over the years that you know as you get older your
• 21:00
  perception of time shifts and changes and that old expression
• 21:06
  time flies when you're having fun.
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  I really do think that's true and I think it's also true that
• 21:11
  when your life sucks and things suck.
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  Oh my god. Did they drag on?
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  I remember like and I've spoken to it to death on my podcast,
• 21:20
  I'm going to but spare my regular listeners the stories
• 21:24
  but twice. To say I've worked in a various
• 21:27
  different positions, over the years that I did not enjoy.
• 21:31
  Let's put it that way and it felt like it would never end and
• 21:35
  now it's a complete 180 like I am much happier in life.
• 21:40
  I'm in a happier place I'm not exactly where I want to be but
• 21:43
  I'm very grateful to be in the position I am and get to do the
• 21:46
  things I get to do and I keep pushing towards where I want to
• 21:50
  be but the same problem I keep finding every single Day is, why
• 21:56
  is the time going? Where's the time?
• 21:58
  They're just, it's just not enough hours in the day, like
• 22:00
  right now, it's 6:30 p.m. my time.
• 22:03
  All I've done today is I went to the gym I applied for a few
• 22:08
  acting roles and then I think that's it, I don't know.
• 22:13
  Like I don't know where the rest of the day win.
• 22:15
  You know. I woke up pretty early.
• 22:17
  I woke up at like 9 10, went to the chiller.
• 22:21
  Where does where does the time go?
• 22:23
  Skate scary, it's scary. Great.
• 22:26
  That's what it is. Yeah.
• 22:27
  And it's the same feeling when, if you drive right a car, it's
• 22:33
  the drive home, all of a sudden you're in the driveway and
• 22:36
  you're like, holy shit. Like what?
• 22:38
  I don't remember the drive at all, you're thinking how safe is
• 22:41
  that within the other drivers on the road are doing the same
• 22:44
  thing. There's another one.
• 22:45
  I remember, when I was kid, I was lucky enough to meet my
• 22:50
  great grandparents and we would often drive there.
• 22:54
  Maybe once a month, I think and they I thought it was like a
• 22:59
  three-hour Journey because I remember sitting on my game boy
• 23:03
  and I did back in the day, like, when I was Game, Boy, Advance
• 23:08
  used to have, like, the old light thing that you plug in,
• 23:12
  and it would like Shine Like A Street Lamp and it was Pitch
• 23:14
  Black. And I remembered that on the
• 23:15
  nights. Back when there was no light in
• 23:18
  the car just doing that little memory.
• 23:20
  I had any way but the way to remember it would just take
• 23:23
  forever. I thought it was several hours.
• 23:26
  I remember speaking to my parents about this more recent
• 23:28
  years and they said, oh no, I think it's about 45 minutes.
• 23:31
  Maybe 50 minutes as I know what that's like.
• 23:33
  That felt like an eternity. Oh yeah.
• 23:36
  True didn't it? I mean 45 minutes to an hour now
• 23:39
  is nothing. I mean I don't know about you
• 23:41
  but I like an hour now. For me goes by in the blink of
• 23:44
  an eye. I might as well be 15 minutes.
• 23:47
  Yeah. Yeah it's that time is elastic.
• 23:49
  Absolutely. Baby.
• 23:50
  It shifts in every single sigh. I know I keep like son.
• 23:54
  Like a broken record now, but it seems to be the case in
• 23:57
  everything, like waiting for things.
• 24:01
  You know, I've done a lot travel in my life so any I'm not just
• 24:05
  around the world but like hope that home traveling trains buses
• 24:09
  waiting Etc, right? We all have and years ago, that
• 24:14
  that you should feel like forever.
• 24:16
  And now, I don't know, like half an hour like if if I had to wait
• 24:21
  for half an hour or 45 minutes for a bus.
• 24:25
  Say seven or eight years ago, I would have been a No-No and been
• 24:29
  so upset and I've been really angry and frustrated and just be
• 24:32
  miserable and it would drag on. But now half an hour, 45
• 24:36
  minutes, the first thing that comes in my head is a flyby, no
• 24:41
  problem, right? And it does it just and then
• 24:44
  before, you know it, but uh already what, right?
• 24:48
  Lucky, lucky man, that the dot, the time Lords, the time Gods,
• 24:52
  then they're messing with us, that's what it is.
• 24:56
  Absolutely. And and and I find that that's
• 25:00
  the thing about autopilot, right?
• 25:02
  Is that I described it as a difference between living and
• 25:05
  existing like, like to me. And when you're an existing mode
• 25:11
  or autopilot mode, things just kind of happen to you, like life
• 25:15
  just kind of happens to you. But when you're, when you're,
• 25:18
  when you're off, autopilot in your in your living, like your,
• 25:22
  whether I think it is, I think it's independent of time going
• 25:26
  by quickly or slowly. I don't think these two concepts
• 25:30
  necessarily overlap because there is such a thing as being
• 25:34
  in the zone, right? In a flow State and and that Can
• 25:39
  be incredibly addictive and time flies by and as a musician.
• 25:43
  I know that, you know, mean when you're in that flow State, you
• 25:47
  don't need to go to the bathroom.
• 25:48
  You don't need to eat like, all of a sudden, you can look at the
• 25:51
  clock and it's 4:00 a.m. And you're like, what the hell
• 25:53
  just happened, okay, I should probably go to sleep.
• 25:57
  So I don't think the two concepts overlap, but but I do
• 26:00
  feel like The quality of our time, right?
• 26:05
  Can be greatly improved with just checking in once in a while
• 26:10
  with just asking yourself some questions.
• 26:13
  Like when I was talking about the past and the future and
• 26:16
  others being things that drain our time and keep us on
• 26:19
  autopilot, right? If you have a bad habit or a
• 26:24
  habit, you want to get rid of of thinking too much about the
• 26:26
  past. For example.
• 26:28
  If you if you learn and build the habit of checking in, you
• 26:32
  can potentially stop one of those rabbit holes from
• 26:35
  happening. A few seconds in a few minutes
• 26:38
  in versus. If you don't check in your on
• 26:41
  autopilot, it could be 20 minutes, you're sitting in that
• 26:44
  depressed, state thinking about some regret or whatever, you're
• 26:48
  right? Yeah, no, you're spot-on with
• 26:51
  that actually. Before I came on to this show
• 26:53
  today, I was feeling very low and I've slept just get on with
• 27:00
  it, you know, do the show they'll make me feel better and
• 27:03
  it has they always do. But I think exactly what you're
• 27:09
  saying that I was thinking about this idea that you know you
• 27:11
  can't allow yourself to entertain.
• 27:15
  The idea to entertain that narrative, you know.
• 27:19
  Like for example your feelings are important and you got a, of
• 27:23
  course. Yeah, I think you have to kind
• 27:25
  of Trust your, your intuition, you know what your gut is
• 27:30
  telling you excetera, but the same time, you know, when you
• 27:33
  find yourself in that kind of miserable mindset, what I often
• 27:38
  tend to do. Oh, voice it.
• 27:42
  I'll be open about it and then I'll just kind of go.
• 27:45
  All right, whatever and move on? No, no seriously though.
• 27:49
  It's like you, what were you gonna do sitting, as you said,
• 27:52
  at waste your whole evening thinking about it, you just
• 27:54
  know, you get out your system and then you move on, and then
• 27:58
  you'll forget about it. And then you'll probably laugh
• 27:59
  at yourself later on, you know? But it's there's something to
• 28:04
  that and it's Someday, I think some days truly.
• 28:09
  Alright, of some days you just have a bad day and you have to
• 28:15
  try. And remember that tomorrow is a
• 28:16
  new day and you know you'll wake up and you'll feel differently
• 28:19
  and it's almost always true. But at the same time really
• 28:25
  trying to fixate on that point that you made this, this idea
• 28:28
  that you can't like entertain that idea that feeling
• 28:31
  especially when you're cognizant of it you know how you get you
• 28:36
  know, like This isn't quite the same thing.
• 28:38
  But as an example, I get particularly low and sometimes a
• 28:44
  bit anxious angry, whatever. If I haven't eaten it doesn't
• 28:48
  always happen but sometimes it happens and it all hit pretty
• 28:52
  hard, you know, either frustration or deep upset and as
• 28:56
  soon as I eat, I feel better. And I know that I will feel
• 28:59
  better. And I have to kind of budge
• 29:01
  myself, push myself to just do it because often, I don't want
• 29:04
  to eat it because I feel low. Those it's been like being ill.
• 29:08
  You just like this, want to stay in it.
• 29:11
  You will wear it, kind of. Yes, you don't want to feel that
• 29:13
  way, but the same time you can't be bothered to do anything about
• 29:17
  it. Mmm.
• 29:18
  But that's kind of the whole point, isn't it?
• 29:19
  It's like you're miserable. As you just heard everything,
• 29:23
  feels like a big deal, everything right.
• 29:25
  It was much bigger deal than it actually is, and then you do
• 29:29
  address it and, you know, okay. But what you said specifically
• 29:33
  about asking yourself questions, I think is very, very helpful.
• 29:36
  Like I, That sometimes when I need to remind myself about
• 29:42
  what's important, you know, sometimes I get upset about the
• 29:45
  fact that, you know, I'm not where I want to be or things
• 29:48
  aren't working out the way I wanted to, or, you know, I just
• 29:51
  get frustrated at things in life.
• 29:55
  I was having a conversation with someone today about this
• 29:56
  actually. And the one thing I do to try
• 30:02
  and change that is, I start asking yourself those questions
• 30:05
  and I started thinking about like, okay, okay, well, I have
• 30:08
  this, this is what I have. These are the things I have in
• 30:10
  my life. This is how my life used to
• 30:12
  looked five years ago, ten years ago.
• 30:14
  This is how it looks. Now, suddenly, I kind of and
• 30:17
  then I actually get to a point where I'm like, how dare you
• 30:19
  complain, how dare you feel bad about yourself down?
• 30:22
  Yeah, well kinda because you think about where your life used
• 30:25
  to be and you're like you should be done well grateful you know,
• 30:27
  and I don't think there's anything wrong with having a bit
• 30:30
  of a moan, you know, feeling a bit low because people will say
• 30:33
  that they'll be like, oh well, you know, you just moaning and
• 30:36
  complaining you should be Grateful and it's like it's true
• 30:38
  but you shouldn't feel bad for having a bit of a moan so long
• 30:41
  as you don't do that 24/7 and so long as you're actually doing
• 30:44
  something to try and change your life work towards your goals,
• 30:48
  then it's okay. You know, for anyone that knows
• 30:51
  me knows what I do or is a follower of me.
• 30:55
  They'll know that. Like most of the time positive
• 30:58
  optimistic, Etc. But you know I'm human we have
• 31:02
  those moments today was an example of that, but it's, you
• 31:06
  just have to keep Eep. keep persevering in, as you say,
• 31:10
  addressing it with those mindful questions and I suppose it's
• 31:16
  just that it's a whole process, isn't it?
• 31:18
  You have to revisit quite often. Yeah.
• 31:21
  And and you said something there, that's really important.
• 31:25
  I think when you said like, you shouldn't feel bad, Right?
• 31:28
  And and I would expand on that and and say you should feel bad
• 31:33
  about anything that you're feeling, right, right.
• 31:36
  And it's something I really pay attention to as I see it a lot
• 31:40
  in the coaching and wellness space.
• 31:43
  Is when someone will say stop doing this or stop doing that.
• 31:48
  And it, it triggers. I think it triggers something in
• 31:52
  a lot of people because say, for example, the people that are
• 31:55
  getting down on themselves or thinking too much about the
• 31:58
  past, if someone comes to you and says stop doing that, it's
• 32:00
  not work, it's not working for you.
• 32:04
  I mean, we already have a tendency to beat ourselves up so
• 32:08
  when you hear stop doing that, that usually triggers another
• 32:11
  beat yourself up. Right.
• 32:14
  And that's kind of a habit that that becomes ingrained and so
• 32:19
  feeling bad about anything you're feeling.
• 32:21
  I think the first step it's not an easy one, but the first step
• 32:28
  is to really go deep and ask yourself big questions.
• 32:32
  Like, do I think I'm enough, right?
• 32:36
  Wow, like do it. Do I do, I love myself like
• 32:39
  those are really deep questions. It called comfy, comfy asking
• 32:42
  those questions. Wait, TT, you have to, you have
• 32:47
  to entertain those, right? Because often that's the route
• 32:50
  in and I talked about when people ask me like, okay?
• 32:54
  Like, you're saying, maybe you should forgive yourself and
• 32:57
  someone saying, like, I don't know how to do that, right?
• 32:59
  Like, how do I even start and the first scenario I give out.
• 33:04
  As I say just pretend that a loved one comes to you, right?
• 33:08
  And they say that they're they're really suffering from
• 33:10
  this thing and they don't know if they can forgive themselves.
• 33:13
  Don't know if they deserve forgiveness.
• 33:15
  Would you ever tell them that they're right?
• 33:17
  Like, would you ever say no? You probably don't deserve
• 33:20
  forgiveness. Like no, you would never say
• 33:22
  that, right? Right immediately.
• 33:25
  You would tell them like, you absolutely deserve forgiveness,
• 33:27
  right? You deserve to feel loved and to
• 33:30
  be happy. And so for whatever reason we
• 33:34
  find that we feel uniquely undeserving, right of those
• 33:39
  things. Like we feel like it's almost
• 33:41
  like an imposter syndrome. Like if And else finds out that
• 33:45
  I don't deserve this stuff, right?
• 33:47
  It's like no like you would never tell a loved one that they
• 33:51
  don't deserve it. So examine, if you're telling
• 33:53
  that to yourself, right? And it's a little bit of kind of
• 33:57
  trying to take your own advice. I think Society is to blame a
• 34:01
  little bit for this because I'm a member had a guest on my show.
• 34:04
  Quite early on, shout out to Holly young and we were talking.
• 34:07
  I mean, we were talking more about culturally about the UK
• 34:10
  and how in the UK at least. Back in the day you would kind
• 34:15
  of get taught an extreme version of being humble, right?
• 34:20
  Okay. But you're almost taught in the
• 34:23
  UK and I don't know necessarily that it's the case anymore now.
• 34:26
  But certainly when I was growing up and the generations before
• 34:30
  that, you were kind of always taught that it's very Unbecoming
• 34:35
  to celebrate yourself. Like you shouldn't yes like and
• 34:38
  don't get me wrong. Being humble is great.
• 34:41
  Being modest is brilliant. But we were almost taught that
• 34:45
  it was just bad to even celebrate yourself at all, but
• 34:50
  you have to downplay yourself. You have to berate yourself.
• 34:53
  You know, if your core being nice about yourself, then
• 34:56
  everyone just thinks you're a narcissist or arrogant or
• 34:58
  something. I always took exception to that
• 35:01
  because I know I've had it, I've had people say, oh, you're
• 35:05
  arrogant, you're narcissistic because they don't understand
• 35:07
  the difference between confidence versus narcissism and
• 35:11
  arrogance. There is a big distinction Ian.
• 35:13
  It's okay to be confident and I mean it's that's okay.
• 35:17
  Narcissism is is like a whole thing unto itself by thing with
• 35:20
  arrogance. It's like you know that's
• 35:23
  basically just thinking you're better than everyone and I think
• 35:27
  certainly in my experience of confidence is its I would say, I
• 35:34
  don't truly 100% have confidence.
• 35:36
  What I have is something I built up over many years, which is
• 35:40
  kind of like, a going to put up. it's like a refusal to give in
• 35:51
  and a refusal to allow my own feelings to stop me from doing
• 35:57
  what I want to do. So it's not confidence.
• 35:59
  It's just that I understand. I have to do this and I have to
• 36:03
  do it in this way. Otherwise, it's just not going
• 36:05
  to get done, you know, and also learn as well.
• 36:08
  Just on a side note that in life, you have to have some
• 36:11
  degree of confidence just to get anything done at all.
• 36:14
  Like I don't know. You need a job which means you
• 36:17
  need to have to go to interviews.
• 36:18
  Which means you need to start to an interview and be somewhat
• 36:21
  confident. You can fake it till you make
• 36:23
  it, you know, you can pretend to be like this really extroverted
• 36:27
  great person and then you get the job and then everyone
• 36:29
  discovers, you're just really chill and clearly, but point is,
• 36:35
  you have to kind of throw yourself out there.
• 36:37
  Like when I remember first year university, the did it all the
• 36:40
  time in my my course. I mean I did management
• 36:44
  marketing so it's a bit different.
• 36:45
  That's kind of the whole point with business is networking.
• 36:48
  But Yeah, the many of us were very shy and didn't want to do
• 36:51
  it and they really had to push us to do it.
• 36:53
  And it really is a skill that you have to build networking
• 36:57
  conversation. You know it's not easy but it is
• 37:02
  something you have to practice and I think confidence is the
• 37:08
  same as something you have to practice, but there's a very
• 37:11
  different thing. There's a difference between
• 37:14
  what you project to the world and what you show, people versus
• 37:18
  you're in. Feelings, you know, people think
• 37:20
  I'm confident but they don't know how I think and feel about
• 37:23
  myself they don't know what goes through my head every single
• 37:25
  day. They don't know how you know for
• 37:29
  instance. Okay let's start make a video
• 37:31
  right music video or I put out a new podcast.
• 37:36
  Yeah the whole time. I'm thinking look at my horrible
• 37:39
  face. Oh that sounds terrible or even
• 37:42
  if it's a podcast but I can't stand the sound of my voice.
• 37:46
  Just why would anyone listen to this crap?
• 37:48
  There All that goes through my head every single time and the
• 37:52
  only thing that kind of prevents me from acknowledging that is
• 37:56
  just that. Well, if I did, I know, I
• 37:58
  wouldn't get any of this done and that would make me feel
• 38:00
  worse, and it's kind of like a weighing up of like, what do I?
• 38:03
  What's that is, like, that, that feeling about myself or the
• 38:07
  feeling that I'll have, if I don't do it.
• 38:10
  Mmm. Yeah.
• 38:12
  And I mean, that's completely natural.
• 38:16
  All right? We tend to be our own worst.
• 38:18
  Critics for sure. Yeah and I think when you're
• 38:23
  talking about the distinction between PSI confidence and
• 38:26
  narcissism and kind of who you are inside versus what you
• 38:31
  portray and all that stuff, I feel like One of the big.
• 38:37
  Differences there, I'd say is comparison, right?
• 38:41
  Like if you're if you're operating from a standpoint of
• 38:45
  comparing how you're doing to others and that is kind of the
• 38:51
  fuel of your confidence or lack of confidence.
• 38:53
  Then you're likely never going to land on true confidence,
• 38:59
  right? Like you're always the
• 39:02
  comparisons, always going to be there and on the other hand if
• 39:07
  Can remove the comparison even for little moments at a time,
• 39:12
  but but try to create some Harmony between what we're
• 39:17
  feeling on the inside and how we're portraying themselves in
• 39:19
  the outside. Because often what prevents us
• 39:23
  from, or I should say often what makes us put on a mask is that
• 39:28
  we're worried about what other people think of us, right?
• 39:32
  And and there's, there's comparison inherent in that.
• 39:35
  And if you can Flex that muscle because it is a muscle and it
• 39:40
  takes some time and to make it a habit but really putting
• 39:44
  yourself out there and saying what you truly want to say and
• 39:48
  behaving how you truly want to behave.
• 39:51
  There's so much Freedom that can come from that, right?
• 39:55
  Like just imagine if you didn't have to filter anything, Right?
• 39:59
  If you just said exactly what you wanted to say, and behaved
• 40:03
  his act like you want to behave like when especially when you go
• 40:05
  back to that cultural era of. Okay?
• 40:08
  You got to keep everything in like to some people and
• 40:11
  especially to them. The first thing would come to
• 40:13
  mind, would be that just be chaos right there with no social
• 40:17
  filter. Like it would just be Anarchy
• 40:20
  and I think that's simply untrue.
• 40:23
  I think there's so much inherent, kindness and warmth
• 40:26
  and love inside of people But they really do diminish when
• 40:31
  they put on that mask. Like they don't let it shine
• 40:34
  through fully because they're concerned, they're worried,
• 40:38
  they're scared that they're going to say the wrong thing or
• 40:42
  they're going to be taken the wrong way and it certainly
• 40:46
  involves a whole lot of being. Okay?
• 40:48
  That not, everyone is going to like you, right?
• 40:52
  That's a huge mountain to climb. If you have people-pleasing
• 40:56
  Tendencies, which we all do to some extent, That's a tough one.
• 41:01
  That's hard 1 as well. I think the biggest thing for me
• 41:04
  just I can totally except when people don't like me, I know
• 41:07
  there are people that don't like me, but I take that stuff person
• 41:12
  this I'm like boom. What do I do?
• 41:15
  Like right? Well and what I tried to think
• 41:17
  about now is if the majority of people, if you find yourself
• 41:22
  getting on with the majority of people chances are, you're
• 41:25
  probably a decent person and there's nothing wrong with you,
• 41:28
  right? You know, sometimes you just rub
• 41:31
  people the wrong way. Sometimes I remember seeing this
• 41:34
  guy posted it took. Then he said the only three
• 41:37
  reasons that someone will truly hate.
• 41:39
  You are either because you've genuinely wrong them, which is
• 41:43
  the okay, fair enough? And the other two are like
• 41:46
  jealousy or what was the other one?
• 41:52
  Come and buy the other one. Now base basically centered
• 41:54
  around two things which are their own problems, you know,
• 41:57
  that's that's within then that's not within anyone else and it's
• 42:01
  just like okay if that exists within them then how is that my
• 42:07
  problem? There's obviously nothing that
• 42:08
  fought with me. It's not my snot.
• 42:11
  Yeah, so sis I don't know. It's that is a big one that is
• 42:18
  that really is and it's, yeah, I don't think it's easy.
• 42:21
  It's something that's easily solvable.
• 42:23
  If I think you just have to Accept yourself as you are work
• 42:28
  on your flaws as much as you can and just learn to love yourself.
• 42:31
  And you know, if people hate you hey fuck, it must be doing
• 42:35
  something right. But it but even I'll challenge
• 42:40
  you even on the working on your flaws like it.
• 42:42
  Like that's a completely separate conversation, right?
• 42:46
  Whether whether or not you need to be doing that, I think to
• 42:50
  view yourself as flawed kind of goes back, into that comparison
• 42:54
  mode. Right?
• 42:56
  That flawed in comparison to what like no one is inherently
• 43:00
  flawed right there. They're only flawed if you put
• 43:03
  them up against a comparison of kind of whoo-hoo, a person
• 43:07
  should be in society, right? Are culturally and it's a tough
• 43:12
  one to when you when you really think about, okay?
• 43:18
  What are my responsibilities right?
• 43:21
  As a person acting in the world and what responsibilities are
• 43:24
  am? I Onto that aren't mine.
• 43:27
  And one of them that were holding onto that aren't ours is
• 43:31
  the need to, please people, right?
• 43:33
  Like it's if I'm saying something to you, your reaction
• 43:36
  is not my responsibility but so often I take it on as my
• 43:41
  responsibility, right? Like I pre-filter what I say to
• 43:47
  make sure that you're going to find it agreeable or at least I
• 43:51
  mean suitable, right? That is not going to throw
• 43:53
  something off course or offend. You or in that responsibility,
• 43:57
  it's way too much weight to carry.
• 44:00
  It makes you kind of crisscross and your own mind off, too often
• 44:04
  it complicates things we talked about in situations where the
• 44:08
  majority of the people like me in a particular place, right?
• 44:11
  But then there's that one person that doesn't like me, and then I
• 44:15
  talked to other people about it and they were all surprised that
• 44:18
  like, what I can't believe they wouldn't like you or, you know
• 44:22
  what I mean? And it's It's a weird situation,
• 44:26
  you know, to find yourself in and I get where you're coming
• 44:29
  from as far as, you know, the comparison thing.
• 44:33
  But at the same time like there are some things I don't think
• 44:36
  you can account for. I think, I truly believe that
• 44:40
  hatred as a concept. Is an internal thing as in like,
• 44:46
  it's, it's something you carry with you.
• 44:52
  Like there are people that have wronged me.
• 44:54
  There are people that I'm frustrated upset angry with from
• 44:57
  the past, but I don't hate them because it's that, that hurts
• 45:03
  me. You know, because people often
• 45:06
  think that hatred, you know, it's it's something that, you
• 45:09
  know, you you have for others and it affects that doesn't
• 45:12
  affect that time, so they don't even know about it.
• 45:15
  And if they do, if you inflict hatred on to them, you punish
• 45:19
  them, so to speak. They'll never suffer as much as
• 45:23
  you suffer in within your hatred.
• 45:27
  You know, that's why they always talk about, it being like
• 45:29
  baggage and soon as you let that baggage go, you feel free, you
• 45:32
  feel happier. It's Of course you do, you know?
• 45:37
  Yeah. I think I'm gone.
• 45:39
  Sorry, go ahead. Well, I was just going to say
• 45:41
  that. I think forgiveness is exactly
• 45:42
  the same as well Kant. The concept of it is the same.
• 45:46
  Yeah. And I love the way we use the
• 45:49
  word baggage. There.
• 45:50
  Like, what else is in that bag? All right.
• 45:54
  There's a lot of things that were carrying around that.
• 45:57
  We don't need to be in. Yeah, but one thing I've noticed
• 46:04
  it's It started probably around the same time, that my life
• 46:07
  coaching Journey started and looking into these Concepts that
• 46:11
  I've become. I used to be so interested in
• 46:14
  philosophical questions, right? And, and, and studying, kind of
• 46:18
  society as a whole, and talking about groups of people and other
• 46:21
  people, and I've honestly become so disinterested in it that at
• 46:26
  this point if I'm talking to someone and they make some kind
• 46:31
  of generalization they say, like, even using the word
• 46:34
  people, Like not a specific group of people just people in
• 46:37
  general. I'm like I don't care like
• 46:40
  what's going on with you, right? Like are you feeling hatred?
• 46:45
  Like is that if we're just talking about other people it's
• 46:48
  like okay I don't know them right there even if they're real
• 46:52
  I don't know them. If they're hypothesize, I
• 46:54
  definitely don't know them and I just find it a less and less
• 46:58
  useful exercise to to create these kind of scenarios where
• 47:03
  you're talking about other people and how they Feel and I'm
• 47:06
  a lot more interested in what's going on with me and the person
• 47:10
  I'm talking to that makes sense, it's perfect sense, this move it
• 47:16
  on. I just want to talk about your
• 47:18
  book for a second because you are speaking of mindfulness you
• 47:21
  actually wrote a book called don't think of it as
• 47:24
  mindfulness, which given everything that we've spoken
• 47:27
  about. I'm very confused by tell us
• 47:31
  about the book how it came to be what I saw.
• 47:35
  But and why people should read it.
• 47:37
  Sure. Yeah.
• 47:38
  So the reason I call it, don't think of it as mindfulness is.
• 47:42
  I think my mom is such a loaded word.
• 47:46
  It's been so mainstream for so long now like you can't walk by
• 47:49
  a magazine stand without seeing some issue of some publication
• 47:54
  completely dedicated to mindfulness drives and not
• 47:57
  because they, yeah, they don't really know what it means.
• 48:00
  There'll be mindful plant a tree and there is some truth to that,
• 48:05
  But sure that when they hide jacket, the media always.
• 48:08
  Hi Jackson. Yeah.
• 48:09
  And it's become the, there's too much baggage, there's that word
• 48:12
  again, there's too many preconceptions and and so with
• 48:18
  my own Journey when I first started hearing about
• 48:20
  mindfulness and it sounded like something I should be doing,
• 48:24
  right? It's like, okay, the sounds like
• 48:26
  something that would bring a lot of joy to my life or Freedom or
• 48:29
  whatever piece and I linked on to meditation right away and I
• 48:35
  had mixed success with it over the years and I got to a point
• 48:38
  where I was quote unquote. Good at it.
• 48:41
  I mean, there's no such thing but to the point what I means
• 48:44
  the point that say I hadn't even meditated in three or four
• 48:47
  months I could sit down and within a few minutes I could
• 48:50
  kind of drop back in to that meditative State because I had
• 48:54
  practice so often but I was just getting frustrated because I
• 48:59
  realized that okay, if I sit down and meditate for 20
• 49:02
  minutes, it feels great for the 20 minutes.
• 49:05
  And a few minutes after work, right?
• 49:08
  But then, I'm right back into my day.
• 49:10
  I'm right back into autopilot mode whatever else is going on
• 49:14
  in my life. So I kept asking like there's
• 49:18
  got to be more to this, right? More than trusting the studies
• 49:22
  that if you put in enough hours, eventually you'll start to get
• 49:25
  those benefits, right? That just seems so kind of okay
• 49:30
  at the risk of sounding kind of impatient, right.
• 49:34
  It was like, I want to, I want to That it's affecting me now
• 49:37
  and that's when I started discovering again that there's
• 49:40
  not necessarily a direct link between mindfulness and
• 49:43
  meditation, that mindfulness is a much bigger word and much
• 49:48
  simpler at the same time and that's when I started
• 49:52
  gravitating towards the phrase, checking in hmm.
• 49:55
  And that's something that it just makes a lot more sense to
• 49:59
  me. It doesn't have the same baggage
• 50:01
  as mindfulness, right? And I talked About why I already
• 50:05
  mentioned like looking at yourself in the mirror and say,
• 50:07
  hi, right. That's a couple seconds to be
• 50:10
  checked in like, that is mindfulness.
• 50:14
  It's as simple as being present, those two words, right?
• 50:19
  That's the whole concept right there, but knowing that and
• 50:23
  actually put it in your life or two, very different things,
• 50:25
  right integrating, it can be difficult.
• 50:28
  So, in the book I talk about finding your own check-in
• 50:31
  method, I call it right. I have a story in the book.
• 50:35
  It went on some vacation and we found this little like Alice in
• 50:40
  Wonderland type gift shop on the side of the road.
• 50:42
  And the sign said, open, if we're home, it's okay.
• 50:46
  We gotta pull over and check this out.
• 50:48
  And it was this guy. He, he had this hobby of
• 50:51
  essentially, collecting old and broken things, and repurposing
• 50:54
  them into art, and, and something useful.
• 50:57
  And he loved woodworking to, and raped by the cash register.
• 51:01
  He had a box of wooden bow ties. And I was like, okay I've never
• 51:06
  seen one of those before. I got to hear the story, right?
• 51:08
  This guy's already interesting. Let's add another one on and he
• 51:12
  said that he made them for his kids.
• 51:15
  They played Sports growing up and I don't know if you've ever
• 51:18
  played Sports competitively but there's a formal component to
• 51:22
  it, right? Like if you have to kind of wear
• 51:24
  a shirt and tie say for a game so he made these as a way to
• 51:28
  kind of have fun with that formal component, right?
• 51:31
  So he would make these little wooden bow ties for her son's.
• 51:34
  Ha 18 for example and I know you have.
• 51:38
  I know you do the video podcast. So actually that way I keep this
• 51:43
  in my pocket here it is. That's pretty good and it's on
• 51:46
  the cover of the book because honestly for whatever reason
• 51:51
  like three weeks after I had that vacation I realized like
• 51:56
  man this thing still in my pocket like everyday I would put
• 51:59
  it in my pocket just like my wallet, right?
• 52:01
  I didn't know why I was doing it.
• 52:03
  I was just doing it and then It was just around the time.
• 52:05
  I was doing all this work on checking in and finding a
• 52:08
  check-in method and I was like, well damn, like there it is
• 52:10
  right there. So I associate the Bowtie now
• 52:14
  with checking in. So at first I was keeping it in
• 52:18
  my back pocket, so every time I sat down it would annoyingly
• 52:21
  remind me that it was their right?
• 52:23
  But when I, when I took it out, I went oh shit, I was just on
• 52:27
  autopilot, right? I was just in the middle of some
• 52:30
  tasks or I was down some rabbit hole either with Or thinking
• 52:36
  about the past, the future. Whatever.
• 52:38
  And this was a little reminder, just take a second to go.
• 52:42
  Okay, what was I just doing? Was that serving me?
• 52:45
  Whatever. I was just doing because like
• 52:47
  80% of the time, the answer was no, right?
• 52:50
  I was down some rabbit hole that I didn't want to be down.
• 52:55
  So it was almost like giving me a little exit on the highway,
• 53:00
  right? And I was creating those moments
• 53:02
  throughout my day. So in the book, I talk about
• 53:04
  Out, you know what, I'm not going to sell you a wooden bow
• 53:07
  tie. I only have one.
• 53:09
  I'm not giving it to you. You have to find your own
• 53:11
  check-in method, right? It can be something you carry
• 53:14
  around with you. It can be if you're a visual
• 53:16
  person leaving Post-it notes around the house or work, let's
• 53:20
  say something like check-in or wake the hell up, whatever you
• 53:23
  want it to say. Setting an alarm on your phone,
• 53:27
  whatever it is. Create those little moments in
• 53:30
  your day to give yourself an opportunity to check-in.
• 53:34
  And every time you do that you're being mindful.
• 53:37
  Like that is mindfulness, right? You don't need a magazine.
• 53:41
  You don't need a course. You know how to do it already.
• 53:45
  I know we spoke about time earlier but that's what it took
• 53:49
  about a little bit more. Cuz something you said, kind of
• 53:51
  a reminder, being something I work, firstly, I will say that
• 53:56
  for me. Looking at the time is how I do
• 54:01
  that. Like being cognizant of.
• 54:03
  What's the time? What's the time is a bit of an
• 54:05
  obsession with it and I remember listening to a podcast.
• 54:08
  There was another Quite prominent person who said the
• 54:15
  same thing. And they kind of talked about
• 54:19
  how it got obsessive to the point where, you know, they
• 54:21
  always had to have like, a clock Within Reach.
• 54:24
  Be an alarm clock on their phone, watch, whatever.
• 54:29
  They always need. Two new need to new need to new.
• 54:32
  Need to know what the time is at any given time.
• 54:36
  And they kind of said, just like it was ER, their own little
• 54:38
  quirky thing. I think they explained it as
• 54:41
  like a, they didn't really go into deep too much detail about
• 54:44
  it, but I saw it and I can connect with it as being like a
• 54:47
  Say you need to be in control. We need to know what the time is
• 54:50
  need to be cognizant and aware. And I think that's key is, as
• 54:55
  you said, like, we're all capable of being mindful, I
• 54:58
  think many of us don't realize the association's, we make such
• 55:03
  as the one that you did with the bow tie.
• 55:06
  There are different things that we do day to day.
• 55:09
  That keep us grounded. Maybe keep us aware in the
• 55:12
  moment and then that is in a nutshell, kind of War.
• 55:16
  What mindfulness should be about.
• 55:17
  Well, or at least it seems as about is about just making sure
• 55:22
  you're aware as you've kind of outline.
• 55:23
  Making sure you're in the moment.
• 55:25
  Living it I can't count how many times especially in more recent
• 55:30
  years, where I'll just be sitting there, I don't know who
• 55:36
  will, maybe I'll be with someone, maybe I'll be on my own
• 55:38
  whatever. I was be in the moment and
• 55:40
  experience the moment and thank you for instance, if I ever take
• 55:45
  a picture of anything, I make sure to do it really quickly,
• 55:48
  then put it away and not even think about that anymore right
• 55:51
  now. Just so you can take you out of
• 55:52
  the moment. We, yeah, it's just a quick
• 55:54
  thing, you know. So I got it for later at be a
• 55:56
  nice. Reminder.
• 55:56
  But I want to be in this and experience this like to give you
• 56:01
  an example. I I'm not really a big football
• 56:04
  fan, but I saw Manchester City here in Manchester do like their
• 56:08
  parade throughout the throughout the city and my housemates, a
• 56:13
  man united fan, as I was quite surprised when he turned around
• 56:16
  and said, hey, you wanna go see the parade?
• 56:17
  And I was like the, you sure isn't that like turncoat stuff?
• 56:20
  And he's like, oh no, it's because it's an experience.
• 56:23
  And he was right because like, you know, when are we ever going
• 56:25
  to get to do that again? You know, we're both here,
• 56:27
  living in Manchester, it's an experience.
• 56:31
  Let's go, let's go see it, you know, and There's been a lot of
• 56:34
  that lately, very much. We connect on that level of
• 56:37
  wanting to experience things. And so we were there and, you
• 56:40
  know, he took a few videos and he was a bit more, he likes to
• 56:44
  document things quite a lot and I do it, occasionally, but I'm
• 56:47
  less inclined to do so, I'm quite lazy with it.
• 56:51
  Especially if I know he's around because I know he'll do it.
• 56:53
  So I just say I've loaded, it says, send me the stuff later.
• 56:57
  No. But I didn't take a photo at
• 56:59
  all. I was just there the whole time,
• 57:02
  observing it. And it felt very surreal.
• 57:09
  There's a nice moment and as I give you every moment that's
• 57:13
  been some Way Pleasant or more or strike or striking if you
• 57:18
  like You just feel it? Yeah, the feeling maybe that's
• 57:25
  the more important thing is less than images and memories to
• 57:28
  speak with the feeling of when you're there.
• 57:30
  Like it's amazing. Sometimes sometimes how you can
• 57:33
  think about something that happened years ago and you can
• 57:34
  remember the smell or what it tasted like or how it felt or
• 57:40
  you know that's even more intriguing to me.
• 57:43
  It's almost like you can put yourself back in that.
• 57:46
  Moment. All right.
• 57:48
  Yeah. And and it's It could take a lot
• 57:52
  for us. In today's culture of go, go go,
• 57:56
  right? And you need to be doing more
• 57:58
  things, and you need to be constantly improving yourself.
• 58:02
  And there's so much pressure, right?
• 58:05
  That you almost feel guilty for taking moments, right?
• 58:10
  Exactly, like you were talking about just going to that pray
• 58:12
  and just being in it. Yep, right.
• 58:14
  That wasn't necessarily contributing to some goal you
• 58:18
  had some future set your enemy. Like it was not like you were
• 58:22
  going to the gym or going and handing out resumes for acting
• 58:27
  and things like that. Right?
• 58:28
  It was we need to remember and almost convinced ourselves
• 58:34
  because it's not in the mainstream culture at this
• 58:36
  point. That those things are so
• 58:38
  important to take those moments because they recharge us, right?
• 58:44
  They they I mean it almost sounds like a cliche to go this
• 58:50
  far but it make life worth living and fright like to have
• 58:54
  those moments and to be able to to take them and not feel guilty
• 58:59
  and not feel like it's a lack of being productive or like I often
• 59:05
  talk about the idea of taking a break, right?
• 59:08
  So often we don't really take a break.
• 59:11
  Like we might walk away say, from our task, but we're still
• 59:15
  thinking about it, right? Right.
• 59:17
  Well, we're not taking a break, we're just working remotely
• 59:20
  point. So to give ourselves permission
• 59:24
  right to to Really and it doesn't have to be a long, like
• 59:29
  the duration has nothing to do with it, right?
• 59:31
  A half-hour break spend thinking about something is less useful
• 59:37
  than a two-minute break. If you really kind of checked in
• 59:41
  or you kind of just something as simple as, you know, means
• 59:45
  smelling a flower for Christ's sake or or looking at the the
• 59:49
  scene around you or Focusing on the different sounds you hear,
• 59:52
  whatever takes you out of your head for a second and allows you
• 59:56
  to just be present can be so recharging and I mean if that's
• 1:00:01
  not productive I don't know what it is.
• 1:00:03
  Yeah I know I totally agree with that concept.
• 1:00:06
  I think one thing that always blows my mind when I see a crowd
• 1:00:12
  and it was there, when I was at that, Manchester City thing was
• 1:00:15
  just, everyone is just watching through their phone. righteous
• 1:00:20
  intriguing to me, you know, they're not even watching
• 1:00:23
  through their own eyes and It's a shame.
• 1:00:28
  I don't know. Because You know, I remember, I
• 1:00:32
  remember life before phones and I grew up with technology, but I
• 1:00:36
  always kind of saw it as I still see it as a useful tool, but
• 1:00:42
  nothing more. And that that the phone is not
• 1:00:45
  life. I'm not going to know.
• 1:00:46
  It's great to be able to interact with social media.
• 1:00:48
  It's a fantastic tool such as the internet to it's useful, but
• 1:00:54
  I don't look at that as life and it's ironic as well, because a
• 1:00:58
  lot of it isn't, you know, like you'd go on Instagram, you see
• 1:01:00
  it. Was in photos and none of them
• 1:01:03
  are really depicting life that depicting an idea of life.
• 1:01:08
  It's almost like everything is an advertisement these days
• 1:01:10
  everyone. But you know showing you a
• 1:01:12
  snapshot of their life but it's not really their life, it's a
• 1:01:16
  moment from their life maybe even a good moment but it's not
• 1:01:19
  their life. You know, they never show you
• 1:01:21
  the bad things and fair enough like you don't have to but a lot
• 1:01:25
  of the time it does kind of feel like people are trying to sell
• 1:01:28
  you some idea and and fool you You almost.
• 1:01:32
  Yeah, I remember being a university in first and second
• 1:01:36
  year and they showed us this really old video documentary
• 1:01:41
  style thing for the 1970s and this guy and it still applies
• 1:01:45
  today, is that of the expression, the more things
• 1:01:48
  change, the more, they stay the same.
• 1:01:51
  It was, it was talking about advertising and how advertising
• 1:01:54
  sells us the idea as opposed to the actual product, you know,
• 1:01:59
  right there selling, you know? colors not 7, you Coca-Cola,
• 1:02:02
  they're selling you the lifestyle, there's something you
• 1:02:06
  like, you know, the experience and That has kind of infiltrated
• 1:02:13
  into us now. Now, you know, doesn't matter if
• 1:02:18
  we buy products or services or not, like we're still the whole
• 1:02:22
  social media for it feels like a lot of the time that people even
• 1:02:25
  if they're not trying to become success.
• 1:02:28
  Like okay, I use social media because I'm trying to promote
• 1:02:32
  what I'm doing. You know, that's an
• 1:02:34
  occasionally, I use it for fun, but mostly, I'm looking for
• 1:02:37
  opportunities, trying to advertise myself, trying to
• 1:02:40
  reach people. That's what I'm Day.
• 1:02:42
  But there's a lot of people that I know that I'm trying to do any
• 1:02:45
  of those things but they're still kind of selling an idea of
• 1:02:49
  their life and I don't know who that's for.
• 1:02:52
  Is that foreign audience? Is it not?
• 1:02:53
  Is it for themselves? I don't know.
• 1:02:58
  It's weird. Like I get the whole memories
• 1:03:00
  thing and wanting to capture that and but you got be in the
• 1:03:03
  moment, you know, like like I can think of tons of shows that
• 1:03:07
  I went to where, yeah, we recorded a little bit there but
• 1:03:09
  then I put my phone away. As I said before you, no, I'm
• 1:03:13
  not. I'm not really invested in this
• 1:03:19
  idea of recording the whole thing looking for a phone
• 1:03:21
  because that's not experiencing it in the same way and I don't
• 1:03:26
  know. Sorry, I'm probably just sound
• 1:03:28
  like an old man at this point but it just doesn't it just
• 1:03:32
  doesn't make sense to me. You're like when you get it was
• 1:03:36
  like I was talking to my house made the other day and you know,
• 1:03:39
  we sometimes we like to go to the pub and just sit there and
• 1:03:42
  chat and you know, there's no phones out But we were funnily
• 1:03:47
  enough talking about this, and I've remarked that as we walk
• 1:03:50
  into that Pub, but we walked past a restaurant, and there
• 1:03:53
  were like three or four boots with couples and they were all
• 1:03:58
  on their phones, so they're sitting opposite each other in a
• 1:04:01
  romantic setting. They got the nice lighting and
• 1:04:03
  everything. That's a Friday Saturday night
• 1:04:05
  and they're just on their phones.
• 1:04:06
  All sigh, what's the point? But really what's the question?
• 1:04:09
  No, but seriously, what is the pet is the restaurant necessary.
• 1:04:13
  Yeah, you can just sit and stay at home.
• 1:04:15
  Just pull up the table and just sit your phone on the table and
• 1:04:18
  save yourself some money. I don't get it.
• 1:04:20
  I don't please someone out there saying this to me.
• 1:04:24
  It doesn't make any sense and it's also this this kind of fear
• 1:04:27
  like, oh, if I don't look at what's going on on my phone, I'm
• 1:04:30
  going to miss something like something big is happening over
• 1:04:33
  here, and I'm not part of it, and I'm going to miss absolutely
• 1:04:36
  everything. It's like no life is here right
• 1:04:38
  now in front of you. That's what's happening now.
• 1:04:41
  Well, I think for me the the difference that huge difference
• 1:04:49
  is what you said earlier about it being a tool, right?
• 1:04:52
  Right and like anything like any tool it's not inherently good or
• 1:04:57
  bad, it completely depends on the person using it and what
• 1:05:01
  they're using it for sure. And to me it goes back to such a
• 1:05:05
  pivotal question. I ask myself this all the time
• 1:05:08
  and I've already mentioned the key word a few times say in the
• 1:05:11
  conversation. The Of, is it serving me?
• 1:05:15
  So when you're using Instagram or social media, Checking in
• 1:05:20
  once in a while and asking the way I'm using this right now.
• 1:05:23
  Is it serving me right? Because if you're honest with
• 1:05:27
  the answer, a lot of times the answer is no.
• 1:05:30
  Like we all know that feeling of, I don't even remember a
• 1:05:34
  consciously opening up Instagram, where the hell did
• 1:05:36
  that 20 minutes ago? Right.
• 1:05:39
  You're just like, scrolling scrolling scrolling, right?
• 1:05:42
  If you were to check in five minutes into that.
• 1:05:44
  And go as this serving me undoubtedly, the answer would be
• 1:05:47
  no. Right.
• 1:05:48
  And at the same time, there are moments when it is serving,
• 1:05:54
  right? The the idea is a never throw
• 1:05:56
  out the champagne with the cork, right?
• 1:06:00
  So you use Instagram to promote yourself in those cases.
• 1:06:04
  It's serving you. It's serving a purpose, and if
• 1:06:07
  you find it, genuinely unwinding to scroll on Facebook for a few
• 1:06:12
  minutes, right? Just to get your mind off
• 1:06:15
  something that's serving you to, or if you're Thing with a
• 1:06:18
  friend, you haven't talked to in a while.
• 1:06:20
  If you're sharing a memory that you really want to share with
• 1:06:23
  specific people, those are that's all it's serving you.
• 1:06:26
  It's it's allowing you to do something you want to do.
• 1:06:31
  But there's always that potential that rabbit hole
• 1:06:34
  potential and it exists all around us.
• 1:06:38
  It's like they're it's like we're in a Minefield, right?
• 1:06:41
  And if we don't pay attention, they're going to snap off at any
• 1:06:44
  second and we don't even realize it.
• 1:06:48
  So it's building that habit. I think to ask yourself that
• 1:06:52
  question because the answer is so immediately obvious but we
• 1:06:55
  always forget to ask the question.
• 1:06:58
  Speaking of asking questions. Nice, nice, thanks.
• 1:07:05
  What's the best advice you've ever received?
• 1:07:10
  Yeah the it wasn't directed Vikes, it was a quote but it was
• 1:07:16
  a quote that meant a lot to me and it shifted a lot of things
• 1:07:20
  for me. It would it said that in the
• 1:07:22
  pursuit of knowledge every day something is added.
• 1:07:27
  And in the pursuit of Enlightenment, every day,
• 1:07:30
  something is dropped. And I heard that quote, at a
• 1:07:36
  time of my life that I needed to hear it like so much advice and
• 1:07:40
  like, so many well-meaning quotes.
• 1:07:43
  If it's the wrong time in your life, it's going to mean jack
• 1:07:46
  shit to you, right? You're going to blow right past
• 1:07:48
  it. You might hear the exact same
• 1:07:50
  quote, two years later, and changes your life.
• 1:07:52
  But I heard that quote, when I needed to and the reason I
• 1:07:55
  needed to hear, it was all through my 20s.
• 1:07:58
  I was a self-improvement chunky, right?
• 1:08:01
  I was always trying to do the things that would make me,
• 1:08:04
  quote, unquote, better But but that, quote me realize, the
• 1:08:08
  reason nothing was ever working, the reason why the frustration
• 1:08:11
  was always still there because I was always piling things on, I
• 1:08:15
  was always learning more, and trying new things, and try, new
• 1:08:19
  techniques, and all this stuff, but the foundation was crumbly,
• 1:08:24
  it was a shaky Foundation because I was resting on this
• 1:08:28
  Foundation of not really knowing who the hell I was.
• 1:08:30
  I was just running on this life script to write of other
• 1:08:35
  people's. Stations and opinions.
• 1:08:37
  And so no wonder why everything I added on didn't stick or just
• 1:08:41
  made me more frustrated. So when they when the quote says
• 1:08:45
  in the pursuit of Enlightenment every day something is dropped.
• 1:08:48
  That's when I really latched onto the idea of unlearning of
• 1:08:52
  of letting things go, right of asking questions like does this
• 1:08:57
  advice is this idea again? Does it serve me?
• 1:09:00
  It is it for me because so often the answer was no and it was me
• 1:09:05
  taking Something on because I felt like I needed to to oppress
• 1:09:09
  someone or to fit in or whatever it was and man it was extremely
• 1:09:15
  hard to start letting things go. But so freeing when I got in the
• 1:09:21
  habit of it and I got better at recognizing when something
• 1:09:24
  wasn't serving me and getting easier to let it go and it's
• 1:09:27
  just, it's completely changed. The way I look at things, a lots
• 1:09:31
  of this is wrong because I really relate to this,
• 1:09:34
  especially lately. I find myself kind of looking at
• 1:09:42
  every single day and trying to take the positives from it, no
• 1:09:47
  matter how small they are, sometimes, there's big
• 1:09:49
  successes, but mostly it's small little things.
• 1:09:52
  And I try to remind myself of those things, but it's not easy.
• 1:09:55
  Especially when, you know, you're not achieving your goals,
• 1:09:57
  you're not where you want to be cetera, right?
• 1:10:00
  Harkens back to what you were saying about the pressure thing.
• 1:10:03
  Constantly place this pressure upon yourself, but you have to
• 1:10:05
  take a step back and look at okay, one of my one of my proud
• 1:10:10
  of what I've achieved. Remember where I was a few years
• 1:10:13
  ago, six months ago, even now I'm in a better place.
• 1:10:19
  In all aspects, you know, spiritually emotionally, maybe
• 1:10:24
  even career-wise. But I think this idea of trimer.
• 1:10:34
  constantly compare yourself to what others are doing and
• 1:10:39
  everything else can kind of just cause you to just lose.
• 1:10:44
  Who you are and lose what you're about and this idea of letting
• 1:10:49
  things go as well. I mean it's What one thing I've
• 1:10:54
  learned to do which is not quite the same as letting things go
• 1:10:58
  but it's it's more something I've discovered.
• 1:11:03
  About myself recently like you spoke of you know, the struggle
• 1:11:06
  of understanding who you are in your 20s, right?
• 1:11:09
  I've just turned 29 and I can say that.
• 1:11:14
  I only really started to discover who I was a few years
• 1:11:17
  ago and I'm still learning in many response every day,
• 1:11:21
  there'll be something new in a mall, okay?
• 1:11:23
  Now I know that about myself, but something I've learned
• 1:11:27
  which, and this is just for me. I know, I realize everyone's
• 1:11:30
  lives are different but for me, My life is a bit like an ocean.
• 1:11:39
  I kind of live my life according to that, old Bruce Lee quote,
• 1:11:42
  which I've said on the podcast before, sorry for repeating
• 1:11:44
  myself. But, you know, be like water and
• 1:11:48
  adapts change yourself to it, go with the flow, you know, you
• 1:11:52
  there's many different ways. People say the same thing, but
• 1:11:54
  that's essentially what the lesson is. and I realized the,
• 1:12:01
  That has to be my attitude. Towards most things like I have
• 1:12:05
  these ideas and I'm an organized person, I do.
• 1:12:08
  And I always will be, but when it comes to an idea, I do what
• 1:12:13
  you just said. I try to let go and go.
• 1:12:16
  Okay, I have my plan, but let's just see what happens, you know,
• 1:12:21
  that all like evens, even, it doesn't even have to be work.
• 1:12:23
  Sometimes it could just be like going on a night out, you know,
• 1:12:26
  used to be that I would travel at all, we need to do this, then
• 1:12:28
  we do this and then this and put it at it.
• 1:12:31
  I tried to just kind of go, let's just go.
• 1:12:35
  Let's just see what happens. Yeah, and that's always
• 1:12:39
  infinitely better. Sometimes it's something good.
• 1:12:42
  Sometimes. Just all right, sometimes it's
• 1:12:45
  bad but at least then there's no pressure.
• 1:12:48
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And one thing I talked about a
• 1:12:52
  lot in the book is is the concept of whether you're hoping
• 1:12:57
  for something or you're worrying about something, they're really
• 1:13:01
  two sides of the same coin. Like we grew up thinking.
• 1:13:04
  Well, no hope is good. It's necessary and worries.
• 1:13:07
  Bad fear, you want to get rid of it, but hope and worry.
• 1:13:10
  They're both placing bets on the future right there.
• 1:13:14
  Trying to reduce the infinite, possibilities down to one or
• 1:13:19
  two. So like, say, say a scenario,
• 1:13:23
  even when there really is only two possible outcomes, like you
• 1:13:26
  go and interview for a job, you're going to get the job.
• 1:13:28
  You're not right. So you hope you're going to get
• 1:13:31
  the job. You were you're not.
• 1:13:33
  But really in reality you have no idea what that job is going
• 1:13:36
  to mean for you, right? It might be the best thing in
• 1:13:39
  the world that you didn't get the job because there might be
• 1:13:42
  an opportunity right around the corner that blows your mind or
• 1:13:45
  that the flip side, right? Might be the worst thing that
• 1:13:48
  ever happened to you that you do get the job, it might make you
• 1:13:51
  miserable like, you never know. So when we hope our worry, and
• 1:13:55
  when we try to plan and control, everything we're walking around
• 1:13:59
  with our blinders on. Right?
• 1:14:02
  And if we can remember, just like you said to go with the
• 1:14:05
  flow and kind of surrender to the idea that we have no idea
• 1:14:09
  what's going to happen. We take those blinders off and
• 1:14:13
  it's amazing. The opportunities that you see
• 1:14:17
  that were hiding right around the corner, right?
• 1:14:20
  That this magically show up all of a sudden.
• 1:14:22
  If you remember to go with the flow, Couldn't put it better
• 1:14:26
  myself. What's the biggest life lesson
• 1:14:30
  you've learned so far? That's a tough one.
• 1:14:35
  I've been so many. I think something we already
• 1:14:39
  touched upon that. The idea that there is a
• 1:14:45
  quote-unquote cultural script That if you're not careful,
• 1:14:50
  you're going to find yourself following without knowing it
• 1:14:53
  that that was certainly the truth for me again, when way
• 1:15:00
  early in the conversation, we talked about family business and
• 1:15:02
  I said, I was very lucky that my wife and I were on the same
• 1:15:05
  page. We essentially went on a life
• 1:15:10
  script burning mission after we left that the family business.
• 1:15:14
  Like we just started looking at everything in our life and
• 1:15:16
  going. Am I doing this?
• 1:15:18
  Because I want to or am I doing it?
• 1:15:20
  Because it's the thing you're supposed to do.
• 1:15:23
  And yeah, I mean we left those jobs, we had an income property
• 1:15:29
  and that was by all accounts, the smart thing to do.
• 1:15:33
  Right? Passive income, blah blah.
• 1:15:35
  We didn't like being landlords. So we sold that right?
• 1:15:39
  We got, we got rid of that and there were so many those, the
• 1:15:42
  career in the income property were big ones, but there are so
• 1:15:45
  many other small ones that we just got more and more used to
• 1:15:48
  the idea of not giving a damn about the script.
• 1:15:53
  Or about what we should be doing or if we're following our
• 1:15:56
  parents advice or cultures, advice, just doing whatever,
• 1:16:00
  damn, well made us happy and living with the consequences,
• 1:16:04
  right? If if if it turns out to be a
• 1:16:07
  mistake then you learn that lesson and you move on but at
• 1:16:09
  least you tried to do the thing. Yeah, right.
• 1:16:12
  You didn't let fear get in your way and go.
• 1:16:15
  Well no that's too risky or that doesn't make sense or people
• 1:16:18
  don't think it's a good idea. So again it was a muscle we had
• 1:16:22
  to kind of build but But in and to be honest it's still
• 1:16:25
  something we have to think about right there.
• 1:16:27
  I don't think there's any point in which that script starts
• 1:16:30
  stops imposing itself on you. So you got to stay kind of if
• 1:16:35
  you're going to do the water analogy again you kind of kind
• 1:16:37
  of stay on the wave sometimes and and stay ahead of it and go.
• 1:16:40
  Okay. Like again am I doing what what
• 1:16:42
  I want to be doing because it makes me happy or am I following
• 1:16:46
  a script bring in stuff as we draw things to a close today?
• 1:16:51
  Do you have any upcoming projects or Final thoughts you'd
• 1:16:54
  like to share with our listeners.
• 1:16:57
  Yeah, honestly. Well I mean you mentioned
• 1:17:02
  already the book that came out fairly recently right now.
• 1:17:05
  It's a completely free resource, it's not going to be free
• 1:17:09
  forever, but right now I have it up.
• 1:17:12
  You can download the PDF, you have links in your show notes, I
• 1:17:16
  can send you the link so go check that out.
• 1:17:20
  I've been very active on Instagram lately and sharing a
• 1:17:23
  lot of content there. You can find me at don't think
• 1:17:26
  mindfulness. Is my handle there and we just
• 1:17:30
  launched a Facebook group of Facebook Community which is
• 1:17:34
  called, don't think of it as mindfulness, the same titles as
• 1:17:37
  the book and yeah, creating a space there where it's really
• 1:17:42
  about reminding people. That I mean, you're not, you're
• 1:17:45
  not alone in anything you're doing and if mindfulness is
• 1:17:49
  something that you want to incorporate in your life, but
• 1:17:51
  it's been damn frustrating or you think like, you haven't
• 1:17:55
  gotten it or am I being mindful enough, my do.
• 1:17:57
  It right and they're wanting to ask those questions because
• 1:18:01
  again it's as simple as you let it be.
• 1:18:04
  And that's what I want. That Community to do is to be a
• 1:18:08
  space where you can come in and share your experiences and say,
• 1:18:11
  what's worked for you, what hasn't read other people's
• 1:18:14
  experiences and just help each other out because we could all
• 1:18:17
  benefit from from having a little bit more mindful time in
• 1:18:21
  our lives. It's an easy thing to do.
• 1:18:23
  We just need to remember to do it.
• 1:18:26
  Put it better myself, pretty and stuff.
• 1:18:28
  It's been an absolute pleasure, having you on the show and
• 1:18:32
  speaking with you and getting to grips with the real meaning
• 1:18:36
  behind mindfulness, just want to say a massive, thank you.
• 1:18:39
  And yeah, wish you all the best. Awesome, thanks for having me on
• 1:18:44
  Christian. Thank you.
• 1:18:45
  And to the listeners of the Christian re podcast, as always
• 1:18:49
  be safe. Be well, and I'll see you in the
• 1:18:52
  next one.