Latest / MyMaine Birth / 88. Katie's Journey through Pregnancy after Loss

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88. Katie's Journey through Pregnancy after Loss · MyMaine Birth

• 0:00
  Katie: She was a holdout, like many babies are, and so she was born at 40 plus 6.
• 0:05
  Katie: And yeah, so anyway, I had negotiated with my doctor because she really wanted me to induce at 40 weeks and I was like, please, let me go longer, which is Christmas Day.
• 0:16
  Katie: I mean, she didn't want me to induce on Christmas, but she was like I don't want you to go longer than that.
• 0:20
  Katie: But I was like, please, let me go longer, let me try a little longer, give her some more time.
• 0:29
  Katie: I'll bounce that, I'll bounce on that ball and I'll do all the things you know.
• 0:31
  Katie: Yeah, so I was scheduled to be induced on the, actually the day that she ended up being born, and I was supposed to call the hospital like the night before, which was my birthday, um, so I called the hospital, that's it.
• 0:41
  Katie: You know like my mom's in town to like be here to help when she comes from the hospital and everything, and called the hospital and they're like there are too many people in labor, so we're not gonna, we're not gonna have you come tomorrow.
• 0:53
  Katie: And I guess I will say like, leading up to this, my doctor had said, you know, like the reason we want you to deliver before 41 weeks is because there's like an increased risk of stillbirth after 41 weeks.
• 1:04
  Katie: I don't know if that, how true that is, but that's what she told me and I don't think that I don't.
• 1:10
  Katie: I'm sure that it isn't made up.
• 1:12
  Katie: But anyway, and you know, knowing my background, she's like we want this baby out safe.
• 1:17
  Katie: You know, like, I know you want that too, and I was like, yeah, I do want that too.
• 1:20
  Katie: So we like worked this out that we, I could go until 41, basically until 41 weeks.
• 1:26
  Katie: Baby had to come out before 41 weeks.
• 1:27
  Katie: So so then when I call and they're like you can't come in because there's too many other people having babies, I like bawled.
• 1:34
  Katie: I was just crying and crying and crying.
• 1:36
  Katie: I, you know we were excited, I didn't.
• 1:39
  Katie: I, you know, I wanted her to come on her own, but and I was really disappointed that we were going to have to induce.
• 1:43
  Katie: But I was like I want her out safely.
• 1:46
  Katie: And so if they're telling me and they didn't even say like, oh, you can come the next day, you know it was like we'll call you in a few days and reschedule sometime.
• 1:53
  Katie: And I'm like in a few days, I was supposed to go in on the 31st, like a week after.
• 2:01
  Katie: You know, like january 1st would have been 41 weeks.
• 2:03
  Katie: So I'm like, no, no, you, this can't be right.
• 2:09
  Katie: So in the end, part of the complication issue was that, like it was a staffing thing like there was, it was during that.
• 2:16
  Katie: You know, this was six and a half years ago.
• 2:19
  Katie: So it was like during that week that was like the coldest week that Bangor has seen in a hundred years or something like that.
• 2:24
  Katie: And there were planes that like flights that were messed up and whatever.
• 2:30
  Katie: So like some doctor had gone somewhere for the holidays and like didn't make it back in time for their shift, and like she switched with my doctor and she wanted to be there to deliver my baby, and you know so.
• 2:40
  Katie: So I think that that was part of it was like they didn't want to just schedule me for the next day because my doctor wasn't going to be on for that day.
• 2:46
  Katie: I mean, I tried and tried and tried.
• 2:48
  Katie: So apparently my mom remembers this more acutely than I do.
• 2:53
  Katie: I remember crying, and then I remember when I went into labor, but my mom said that I was like, fine, I'm going to bake lactation cookies, and so that's what I did, apparently like for hours and I started getting ready for bed at almost midnight.
• 3:08
  Katie: I was taking my socks off, bent over, and my water broke.
• 3:12
  Katie: I wasn't in labor prior to that, but then I was like well, I guess it doesn't matter if there's everybody else having their baby.
• 3:21
  Angela: I'm having my baby too.
• 3:23
  Angela: I'm Angela, and you're listening to my Maine Birth a space where we share the real-life stories of families and their unique birth experiences in the beautiful state of Maine.
• 3:33
  Angela: From our state's biggest hospitals to birth center births and home births, every birth story deserves to be heard and celebrated.
• 3:43
  Angela: Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother or simply interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
• 3:51
  Angela: Today's birth story guest is Katie, and she's here to share with us about her nine pregnancies, the first five of which resulted in losses, and her sixth, seventh, eighth and ninth pregnancy resulted in her four children, who are now six, four, two and one month old.
• 4:14
  Angela: All right, let's get right to it.
• 4:17
  Angela: Hi, katie, welcome to my Main Birth.
• 4:20
  Angela: Hi, so, to get started, will you share a little bit about you and your family?
• 4:28
  Katie: Hi, I'm Katie, I am married and have four children.
• 4:33
  Katie: As of a month ago, and I mean, with a newborn we don't get to do a lot, but we like to go for hikes outside.
• 4:39
  Katie: We like to go for hikes outside.
• 4:41
  Katie: We like to do a lot of art projects and crafty stuff.
• 4:46
  Katie: Yeah, my kids all well, six and a half and under, so, um, so we do a lot at home because they are at home.
• 4:55
  Katie: So, um, yeah, like we just earlier today or walked down to the pond that's at the end of our road, because we heard that there were a bunch of baby ducks down there and went and took some bread down for the ducks, and I think that if, yeah, like if my kids could do that most of the day, every day, they would do stuff like that outside, just exploring and adventuring.
• 5:19
  Angela: Love it.
• 5:19
  Angela: That's amazing.
• 5:20
  Angela: So to get into your birth stories now, will you first start by sharing a little bit about the first time you found out you were pregnant and your thoughts in choosing your care?
• 5:32
  Katie: Sure, Well that's kind of I don't want to say like kind of a loaded question or a long story, but the first time I found out I was pregnant was a couple of months after my husband and I got married and we weren't surprised but we weren't trying, so so it was a surprise.
• 5:44
  Katie: It was a couple of months after my husband and I got married and we weren't surprised but we weren't trying, so so it was a surprise.
• 5:49
  Katie: It was really exciting, even though it was, even though, like it was unplanned, we were excited and I almost immediately started feeling pretty sick and so like it definitely like limited our, like the ability to do what we wanted, or like for me to do what I wanted at that point.
• 6:09
  Katie: But we were all really excited and, like both of us are, we were the first on in his family to have a child, so, like it was going to our daughter was going to be the first grandchild, so like a lot of excitement and eager anticipation from everybody around us over when the baby was going to be the first grandchild.
• 6:24
  Katie: So like a lot of excitement and eager anticipation from everybody around us over when the baby was going to come.
• 6:29
  Katie: So, okay, well, this I will give a caveat here.
• 6:32
  Katie: So our, our oldest here, my oldest daughter, is actually my sixth pregnancy.
• 6:39
  Katie: When, so, right after we got married and I got pregnant, um, when, so right after we got married and I got pregnant, we lost that baby around 16 and a half weeks and then had four more um miscarriages at different stages, um, before we got pregnant with Fiona.
• 6:57
  Katie: So, um, anyway, we are also live somewhere different.
• 7:00
  Katie: At the time, um, we moved to Maine.
• 7:02
  Katie: I think I was seven or eight weeks pregnant with Fiona when we moved here.
• 7:07
  Katie: So I had different priorities with choosing my like who my doctor was here, given what our history was, because I had made it to that point more than once, like multiple times.
• 7:21
  Katie: So, even though, like, we had an ultrasound and things like that, like I didn't feel like out of the woods, you know.
• 7:28
  Katie: Um, so I don't know what you want me to share about that in regard.
• 7:31
  Katie: I mean maybe just what I said, but if there's other questions I don't mind sharing.
• 7:36
  Angela: Yeah, if you, if it's okay with you if you're willing to share a little bit more about how that kind of you know how you discovered things were kind of going off.
• 7:43
  Angela: 16 weeks is pretty far along.
• 7:45
  Angela: That's you know, yeah.
• 7:48
  Katie: Yeah, yeah, well, with um, yeah, so we had gone in for our I think it was our second normal OB appointment.
• 7:56
  Katie: I had no idea how to choose an OB, I didn't know anything.
• 7:59
  Katie: So when I first, like we chose an OB, I, ob, I, yeah, anyway, I had a student who had been talking to like a like, who was a close friend, a college student when I got engaged, I was like I mean, I probably need to go in for like a checkup or something, and so she had recommended she had a, her mother had had a baby when she was in high school, like, like when my friend was in high school.
• 8:22
  Katie: And so she's like, I remember her doctor, her doctor, because that wasn't that long ago.
• 8:26
  Katie: So she just told me like this is who my mom had.
• 8:29
  Katie: And so I was like, okay, that's fine.
• 8:31
  Katie: So, yeah, my first appointments with this doctor.
• 8:34
  Katie: I didn't know anything about her.
• 8:35
  Katie: I was just like, well, I'm pregnant and I need a doctor.
• 8:38
  Katie: So here she is.
• 8:39
  Katie: So I'd had a couple of appointments, that had been fine.
• 8:42
  Katie: And we went in at 16 weeks for like a routine or I don't know, yeah, 16 and a half, I think it was weeks for just our routine checkup and they couldn't find a heartbeat.
• 8:53
  Katie: So you know, I hadn't felt the baby moving yet, because that's around the time that that's normal, like normal to start.
• 9:04
  Katie: So I hadn't really had any symptoms of anything being wrong and I still was sick, I'm still throwing up a lot and yeah.
• 9:10
  Katie: So I had no idea and obviously that was just devastating.
• 9:14
  Katie: You know, they had tried like one of those little Doppler things first, and so then they were like, well, we'll send you for like a big ultrasound and we're like we'll double check all these things because we're not really sure and you know what they could see on the ultrasound.
• 9:28
  Katie: They were concerned that, or they thought that they knew you know what was the the issue.
• 9:34
  Katie: And so they sent us where we were living at the time.
• 9:37
  Katie: There wasn't the major hospital there, it wasn't really a major hospital, um, and they didn't have any specialists there, like no ob specialists.
• 9:47
  Katie: So if you wanted to see a specialist you had to drive.
• 9:49
  Katie: It was about four hours to the hospital where the specialist worked out of, but like once a month or something like that, that they would come like halfway, so so, um, so it just we happened to be lucky and like a couple days later, this doctor was was coming to the halfway place.
• 10:06
  Katie: So we went to that place and had another ultrasound and talked to the specialist and she was like, yeah, I feel pretty confident.
• 10:13
  Katie: This is what the problem is.
• 10:14
  Katie: But, like, after we deliver, we'll, you know, do placental testing to confirm that that's what the issue is.
• 10:21
  Katie: Um, cause it was a chromosomal abnormality that, um, I mean, it's not super common, but like it's fairly common among the chromosomal abnormalities that baby can have.
• 10:32
  Katie: And so they were like you know, we want to confirm that that's what it is and that it's not something else that would be more likely to happen again.
• 10:39
  Katie: Um, so that you'd know, going forward.
• 10:42
  Katie: But, like everybody along the way, everybody kept saying, like this is not, like you shouldn't expect for this to happen again, like next time we'll be different, and you know that kind of thing.
• 10:51
  Katie: Not that that's really a huge comfort, like when you're in the throes of it, but like I think they were, they were trying to help us, not like be in panic mode for like forever, you know, like for the future as well as for the situation we were in.
• 11:03
  Katie: And yeah, so that, yeah, so that was was like what it was, like it was.
• 11:09
  Katie: I mean, I just felt like I don't want to say like we kind of it was.
• 11:13
  Katie: Just it was so heartbreaking, like I I remember just going home and like we literally just like laid on the bed and cried like all day.
• 11:21
  Katie: Thankfully, we had some friends who, like when we my husband texted you know some close friends and like there were people who brought by subway for dinner or like just dropped stuff off at the door, like didn't even come to you know, didn't intend to see us or hang out, you know they just were like we know you're really sad, we want to make sure you have food.
• 11:39
  Katie: So I was really, I'm really grateful in hindsight.
• 11:42
  Katie: I had no idea how significant that kind of thing is, when somebody's going through something like that, where they just don't even know how to ask for the help that they need.
• 11:51
  Katie: Or people will say, well, if you think of anything that you need, let us know.
• 11:57
  Katie: But realistically, a lot of times people have no idea what would help because everything feels so bad.
• 12:05
  Katie: Um, so I appreciate people who just were kind of proactive and like just did it without us, like without even asking.
• 12:14
  Katie: They just like brought dinner, you know, or whatever.
• 12:16
  Katie: Um, which was, you know, met a need that we did have.
• 12:20
  Katie: You know, people do need to eat, so and, yeah, I tried to love us and care for us and grieve with us as we went through the process.
• 12:29
  Katie: But so, so anyway, we we actually had to deliver her, our daughter, because our hospital didn't offer an option for how far along we were.
• 12:37
  Katie: If we wanted to have I think it's called a DNE, we had to go to the far, like this far away hospital.
• 12:42
  Katie: I think it's called a DNE.
• 12:42
  Katie: We had to go to this far away hospital and when I looked into what that procedure was, I felt so strongly that there's no way I could do that to my baby.
• 12:50
  Katie: I know she wasn't alive, but it was like it's horrifying.
• 12:54
  Katie: The procedure is so brutal to a little baby.
• 12:59
  Katie: So I just was like this is the one thing I can still do for her as her mother is to like give her dignity.
• 13:05
  Katie: So we went and delivered her at the hospital, which is, I'm still really grateful that we had that option, because that's the only time with our losses, that we had the option to deliver the hospital.
• 13:17
  Katie: And yeah, I mean, I don't know, there's just something about that process that felt I don't know it's like you're that process that felt.
• 13:24
  Katie: I don't know it's like you're feeling physical pain because that matches your emotional pain and doing this kindness for your child.
• 13:32
  Katie: So I don't know, anyway, but I'm grateful for that.
• 13:35
  Katie: So, anyway, the next time we were pregnant was, I mean, it was within a year yeah, not that much longer and they had been telling us over and over that like that wasn't an issue, we weren't going to have that happen again.
• 13:47
  Katie: And I was familiar with the like I, my background, my educational backgrounds in biology, so like I was actually really familiar with um, what the you know what that diagnosis was and and it isn't like something that is statistically like you're not more likely to have another baby that has it.
• 14:07
  Katie: So I, you know, I believed them because they were right, you know it shouldn't happen again.
• 14:13
  Katie: And so, like we were again really excited when we found out we're pregnant again and lost that baby at nine weeks.
• 14:18
  Katie: And it was the same, literally the same kind of situation.
• 14:21
  Katie: It was a different problem or different reason that the baby didn't live, but it was again like some weird chromosome thing.
• 14:30
  Katie: And and again, like we found out by going to an appointment that you know where there wasn't a heartbeat.
• 14:37
  Katie: So after that, like I, you know, I did my, my research, um, on that you know that situation Cause, again, they did the chromosomal testing for us.
• 14:44
  Katie: Like we asked if they would.
• 14:46
  Katie: And so when we got the results on that, like I did my homework and they kept insisting we should go see a genetics counselor, but they really had nothing they could tell me.
• 14:54
  Katie: That was different than what I knew from the research I'd done, because and it really wasn't like I had researched a whole lot Like there's really just it's a fluky, random thing, like it's not supposed to happen again.
• 15:06
  Katie: So we just like what the, the genetics counselor, told us was like you just got unlucky twice, you know, like you shouldn't have this happen again.
• 15:14
  Katie: But, um, yeah, so we ended up through, you know, a number of years having five losses and you know we, we know why for three of them, or like we know, like what the cause was for three of them.
• 15:30
  Katie: Two of them we still, like we won't ever know because I was the tissue wasn't able to culture when they went to do yeah, so, like you know, I remember thinking like they they can say what they want about like this not being a thing that's going to happen again, but like this could literally be our lives.
• 15:51
  Katie: You know, like if we want to have children, we could just be going through this cycle of like getting pregnant because clearly we had no issues with that and not having the baby live over and over and over.
• 16:05
  Katie: You know, like that could be what it is and like where people like our faith is really strong or like important to us, and so like wrestling with, like what does this kind of mean?
• 16:18
  Katie: Like believing that god is real and believing that god is in control of things, and yet, like this, this is keeps happening.
• 16:26
  Katie: It's like I I don't think it's just a fluky thing and so I don't know, I don't know how to understand like why is God letting this happen over and over?
• 16:37
  Katie: Or like what is some?
• 16:38
  Katie: Is there some purpose here?
• 16:39
  Katie: And yeah, I don't know.
• 16:42
  Katie: Like that I remember just that being a very hard part of the process for me was just feeling like like I'm grateful, like if, if there's gonna be babies that you know aren't gonna live and that's what's gonna happen to them, I'm grateful that I'm able to love them and like the will love them every day that they're in our family and every day that we have with them and and you know, I'm sure that there are people who are wouldn't feel that strongly about that, but but even so, like, yeah, I just remember that being like emotionally really hard to just think like this could, could, this could literally just happen over and over and over, and I don't know if I can bear that.
• 17:25
  Katie: So, um, anyway, so we had seen a specialist I I remember saying something towards that end to my, to my doctor after the fifth one and the doctor had at that point, like we had moved.
• 17:38
  Katie: So, um, the doctor had at that point I don't know he was, he was an older man and he had I think he just had a lot of compassion for me and he like knew a guy who like had some kind of his practice, was some kind of genetic analysis for children who had like weird chromosome disorders.
• 17:56
  Katie: It's just a really weird niche kind of doctor and you really couldn't get in to see him.
• 18:03
  Katie: Like he wasn't somebody who, like he had so many people who you know had kids with weird situations like he would see.
• 18:10
  Katie: But he like pulled some strings and got this guy to like run some tests on us and like do analysis and basically we found out we were totally normal, um, which we thought we were, but you know, it's good to know, I guess.
• 18:22
  Katie: So we are totally normal and he, he was a person.
• 18:26
  Katie: I don't really know anything about him personally, but like I got the impression that he was a person who, you know, at least believe that God was real, because he said something like you know.
• 18:34
  Katie: I don't think that this is a coincidence, but I don't think that, like you don't have, you don't have anything you need to worry about.
• 18:40
  Katie: He's like I really think that if you try again, it will be different.
• 18:43
  Katie: And he's like I don't think anything happens like, as you know, as an accident.
• 18:47
  Katie: So he's like you know these kids being in your family.
• 18:49
  Katie: I think there's some purpose there and I don't know, like I mean, if somebody had said that to me earlier in the process, I think I would have just been like well, you're stupid.
• 18:58
  Katie: I don't know I wouldn't have said that, but I probably thought it.
• 19:00
  Katie: It'd been like why are you telling me everything happens for a reason?
• 19:04
  Katie: Because the reason could be really bad.
• 19:06
  Katie: The reason could be that somebody is horrible and that's why it happened, because some horrible person did a horrible thing.
• 19:12
  Katie: But anyway, I don't know, there was a small amount of comfort for me in hearing him say that.
• 19:17
  Katie: And he was right.
• 19:18
  Katie: The next time I got pregnant we made it full term with our daughter and I have not had another loss since then.
• 19:25
  Katie: So I don't really, I don't really know Like there's no like rhyme or reason to why that happened, the way that you know in the order that it did, or anything, but so that's kind of leading up to our, our main births.
• 19:39
  Katie: So we moved to Maine when I was I think I was eight, about eight weeks pregnant with number baby number six, and so in looking for a doctor here, I wanted somebody who was a really good OB and had a reputation for being you know, I don't want to say being the best, I don't really care if somebody is labeled as the best but like somebody who would be an advocate for me, who would not be overwhelmed by something that seemed high risk.
• 20:06
  Katie: If there was something that came up that seemed high risk and somebody felt like if we, if we did continue this like loss pattern, they would not jump to crazy conclusions like at one point we had.
• 20:18
  Katie: This is so strange.
• 20:19
  Katie: But like we, my husband and I, were worked at the time.
• 20:23
  Katie: We worked for an organization where we would end up in weird situations sometimes where we'll be somewhere for a few months and that's it and then go back home.
• 20:32
  Katie: So we had been After.
• 20:35
  Katie: I think it was our second loss.
• 20:36
  Katie: We had one of these kinds of things where we were somewhere else for a couple months and had a complication or sort of a complication, and so the OB I saw there a possible complication.
• 20:49
  Katie: I guess I'll say that the OB I saw there was like in panic mode and she's like you need to have this surgery and probably you're going to bleed a lot and then I'll probably have to do an emergency hysterectomy.
• 20:59
  Katie: It's like really high risk.
• 21:00
  Katie: I was like I don't want that.
• 21:02
  Katie: No, thank you.
• 21:04
  Katie: And she, she terrified me so much.
• 21:07
  Katie: I was in tears, calling my OB at home and I was like what do I do?
• 21:09
  Katie: What do you think?
• 21:11
  Katie: Do I need to have this surgery right now?
• 21:13
  Katie: This doctor saying this and she's like I don't think so.
• 21:16
  Katie: I don't think you even need that.
• 21:18
  Katie: We'll do this blood work regularly and make sure that there's no issues.
• 21:22
  Katie: But I think you'll be fine.
• 21:23
  Katie: But if you do need to, you can always come home and we can do it here If you need to have a surgery.
• 21:28
  Katie: So so that was important to me, that I didn't have like somebody, like that lady I'd had in Colorado, where it was like I'm in panic mode because I think she's going to like you have to butcher me on the table.
• 21:38
  Katie: So I had a coworker before we even moved here, like worker, before we even moved here, like literally I w we were here in Maine looking for where we were going to live, um, looking for a house, and when we found out that I was pregnant and so I mentioned it to this co-worker cause I was like I know I'm going to need an OB and um, and she is like, oh, the person I have is like the best, you want her so, um.
• 22:02
  Katie: So I was able to call and get an appointment with her because, you know, nobody, nobody even knew they were pregnant at that stage.
• 22:09
  Katie: So I was like the first one on her schedule for her Christmas baby.
• 22:13
  Katie: But it's Dr Rinaldi and she has been great.
• 22:18
  Katie: She delivered my first three, but she was in Italy when this one was born, so we tried so hard to get her out before she left the country, but she did not want to come out early, so we've had somebody else this time, but who also was excellent.
• 22:35
  Katie: Honestly, she was great.
• 22:37
  Katie: So, yeah, I have no question, like no doubts, about Dr Rinaldi.
• 22:41
  Katie: Like, when I tell people who work at the hospital that she was my doctor, they'd be like, oh, she's great.
• 22:46
  Katie: She likes People are afraid to mess up on her patients.
• 22:49
  Katie: So, honestly, I think that had we not had the complications or like the issues we'd had before, I would have maybe like been more interested in like having a midwife or something like that.
• 23:02
  Katie: But just knowing that like Statistics are not comforting at all to me, because like we have defied them, so like if you can say like, oh, only like half a percent of people have any of these kinds of complications, I'm like that will be me and it will be me every time.
• 23:19
  Katie: You know, like who knows?
• 23:20
  Katie: But which actually is not true, but like it could be, and so like we have felt strongly that we need to do the hospital, you know, just in case, because weird stuff happens to us.
• 23:33
  Katie: So, anyway, if we're going to be in the hospital, I want to have somebody who is known for not jumping to conclusions and doing crazy stuff and yeah, who is excellent at that crazy stuff, if I need an emergency safe section, that they're going to do a good job.
• 23:47
  Katie: So, anyway, all my background leading up to being in Maine.
• 23:56
  Katie: So with all of mine I have really bad morning sickness Not HG, but really really pukey, and so with her I don't know if I would say it was the worst of all of them, but it was up there, it was probably the second worst maybe of all of them as far as being sick and we had.
• 24:16
  Katie: So anyway, I was just, I was I don't I wouldn't say I was bedridden, but I was very close, um, just really really sick and throwing up a lot, and that's what I remember of the early part of that pregnancy.
• 24:27
  Katie: It was just like we were moving here from out of state and my husband was packing up the house and friends would come over and help him pack and I was just laying there sick and they packed up all of our furniture and so I had a blanket and a pillow on the floor where I would just like lay there and watch them and then go be sick.
• 24:49
  Katie: That was pretty much.
• 24:50
  Katie: And then we moved here and I was sick here, so we moved into our house and I had known that the people had pets you know like, because we had seen the house before and I was sick.
• 25:02
  Katie: I had some sickness when we were looking for house or when we were like having our inspection and stuff.
• 25:07
  Katie: But we moved into this house and I was like I'm gonna die, I can't handle the smell.
• 25:11
  Katie: It was so bad.
• 25:13
  Katie: It was.
• 25:14
  Katie: It smelled so bad.
• 25:15
  Katie: I could barely heal it.
• 25:16
  Katie: But eventually it got better, usually by 20 weeks.
• 25:19
  Katie: I'm feeling functional again.
• 25:22
  Angela: So um, hard for you to go past, sort of those times before when you had had losses like getting past the nine week mark and getting past that 16 week mark.
• 25:31
  Angela: How are you feeling?
• 25:33
  Katie: Yeah, I think that when I got to 17 weeks, it was like I don't even know.
• 25:38
  Katie: It was like something lifted.
• 25:39
  Katie: You know, like like okay, we are in this unknown territory now and I don't really know what to do with that.
• 25:45
  Katie: You know, like a kind of a relief, but like also, like there's this unknown, like what's happened next or like whatever.
• 25:53
  Katie: I think when I started feeling the baby move, so that was a big deal for me, you know, like it felt really different because now I have a confirmation that the baby is alive and is, I mean, maybe not healthy, but like at least alive.
• 26:07
  Katie: Yeah, I think with our oldest, I think it was around 17 weeks.
• 26:12
  Katie: Oh, it was like right around the same time that like I passed that milestone and she started like I started being able to tell it was her.
• 26:19
  Katie: But I mean, like I think pretty much anybody probably anybody who's been pregnant and gotten to that point no like could say is that?
• 26:29
  Katie: Like?
• 26:29
  Katie: You start feeling things and you're like, is that gas or is that a baby?
• 26:31
  Katie: Like I don't know, or is that something?
• 26:33
  Katie: Am I imagining something?
• 26:35
  Katie: So it takes a couple weeks before you're like for sure, like yeah, that's the baby.
• 26:38
  Katie: But yeah, that definitely felt really different.
• 26:40
  Katie: And then I think, like you know, once we had the 20 week ultrasound, it was like that was a game changer, you know, just knowing like okay, there's a little body and we know from looking at it that like, like the kinds of malformations or like issues that are our older daughter had, like we don't have that, you know, like the physical symptoms of certain kinds of abnormalities or whatever, we couldn't see those and so, like I don't know.
• 27:12
  Katie: So there's something really nice about that confirmation that like she looks healthy, even though, like at different stages.
• 27:18
  Katie: You know, like I remember, like with I think it was our fifth pregnancy.
• 27:22
  Katie: You know, my OB I called him did a lot of them when I was pregnant and they're like you want to come in.
• 27:28
  Katie: I was like five weeks pregnant.
• 27:30
  Katie: You want to come in and get an ultrasound, let's, let's see what's going on.
• 27:33
  Katie: And you know I I knew I was very early, but you know, like there's really not much you can see at one point.
• 27:40
  Katie: But they're like, if you need to come in every week, we will do one every week, we'll do what you need to until.
• 27:46
  Katie: And I think that that practice, like their norm, is like 10 weeks, you know, but they're like.
• 27:50
  Katie: Well, you, we will hold your hand through this because we know you're broken.
• 27:53
  Katie: Just, you know you need, you need extra love with this process.
• 27:58
  Katie: So, but, like you know, know, there's not much you can see.
• 28:00
  Katie: Yes, that dot looks very healthy, but there's no heartbeat yet on it or whatever.
• 28:05
  Katie: At five weeks there's like nothing you can see.
• 28:07
  Katie: So, um, you know, having an ultrasound where you can actually see all the parts of the baby is a big difference so how about the kind of final weeks leading up to and days leading up to your labor, and about that birth?
• 28:23
  Katie: Yeah, so my daughter her birthday is.
• 28:28
  Katie: Well, my due date was just before, like a week before my 35th birthday.
• 28:33
  Katie: So I was like on the borderline for being considered geriatric pregnancy, but I wasn't technically so um.
• 28:41
  Katie: So like all the things that they normally insist on having when you're older, they didn't insist, but it was like kind of like we'll offer these things to you if you want them.
• 28:51
  Katie: So they were really because of me being older.
• 28:54
  Katie: They didn't want me to go too late, you know, like overdue, but I wanted her to be born on her own and and my due date was on Christmas day.
• 29:02
  Katie: So, like you know, like overdue, but I wanted her to be born on her own and and my due date was on Christmas day.
• 29:03
  Katie: So, like you know, staffing at the hospital is obviously not normal at that time of year and people are scheduling around their trips and whatever.
• 29:12
  Katie: So everybody wanted this baby to be born like before Christmas so that they didn't have to deal with scheduling it.
• 29:20
  Katie: But anyway, which is understandable, I wanted her to come before Christmas too, but but she was a holdout, like many babies are, and so she was born at 40 plus six and yeah.
• 29:33
  Katie: So anyway, I had like negotiated with my doctor because she really wanted me to induce at 40 weeks and I was like, please, let me go longer.
• 29:39
  Katie: You know which is Christmas day, like I mean she didn't want me to induce at 40 weeks and I was like, please, let me go longer.
• 29:42
  Katie: You know which is Christmas day.
• 29:43
  Katie: Like I mean she didn't want me to induce on Christmas.
• 29:44
  Katie: But she was like I don't want you to go longer than that.
• 29:46
  Katie: But I was like, please, let me go longer, let me try a little longer, give her some more time.
• 29:49
  Katie: I'll bounce that, I'll bounce on that ball and I'll do all the things you know.
• 29:52
  Katie: So anyway, yeah, so I was scheduled to be induced on the actually the day that she ended up being, and I was supposed to call the hospital like the night before, which was my birthday.
• 30:04
  Katie: So I called the hospital, that's it.
• 30:08
  Katie: You know, like my mom's in town to like be here to help when she comes home from the hospital and everything.
• 30:14
  Katie: And I called the hospital and they're like there are too many people in labor, so we're not gonna to, we're not going to have you come tomorrow.
• 30:23
  Katie: And I guess I will say like, leading up to this, my doctor had said, you know, like the reason we want you to deliver before 41 weeks is because there's like an increased risk of stillbirth after 41 weeks.
• 30:35
  Katie: I don't know if that, how true that is, but that's what she told me.
• 30:38
  Katie: I don't think that.
• 30:46
  Katie: I don't.
• 30:46
  Katie: I'm sure that it isn't made up.
• 30:47
  Katie: But anyway, and you know, knowing my background, she's like we want this baby out safe.
• 30:49
  Katie: You know, like I know you want that too, and I was like, yeah, I do want that too.
• 30:50
  Katie: So we like worked this out that we, I could go until 41, basically until 41 weeks.
• 30:55
  Katie: Baby had to come out before 41 weeks.
• 30:57
  Katie: So then when I call and they're like you can't come in because there's too many other people having babies, I like bawled.
• 31:03
  Katie: I was just crying and crying and crying.
• 31:05
  Katie: You know we were excited, I didn't I.
• 31:08
  Katie: You know I wanted her to come on her own and I was really disappointed that we were going to have to induce.
• 31:12
  Katie: But I was like I want her out safely.
• 31:14
  Katie: And so if they're telling me and they didn't even say like, oh, you can come the next day, you know it was like we'll call you in a few days and reschedule sometime, and I'm like in a few days I was supposed to go in on the 31st.
• 31:27
  Katie: I'm already like a week after.
• 31:29
  Katie: You know, like January 1st would have been 41 weeks.
• 31:32
  Katie: So I'm like no, no you, this can't be right.
• 31:42
  Katie: So in the end, part of the complication issue was that like it was a staffing thing Like there was.
• 31:44
  Katie: It was during that.
• 31:45
  Katie: You know, this was six and a half years ago.
• 31:46
  Katie: So it was like during that week that was like the coldest week that Bangor has seen in a hundred years or something like that.
• 31:52
  Katie: And there were planes that like flights that were messed up and whatever.
• 31:56
  Katie: So like some doctor had gone somewhere for the holidays and like didn't make it back in time for their shift and like switched with my doctor and she wanted to be there to deliver my baby, and you know so.
• 32:09
  Katie: So I think that that was part of it.
• 32:10
  Katie: Was like they didn't want to just schedule me for the next day because my doctor wasn't going to be on for that day.
• 32:15
  Katie: I mean I like tried and tried and tried so, but it wasn tried so but wasn't so.
• 32:23
  Katie: Apparently my mom remembers this more acutely than I do.
• 32:25
  Katie: I remember crying and then I remember like when I went into labor, but my mom said that I was like, fine, I'm gonna bake lactation cookies.
• 32:30
  Katie: And so that's what I did, apparently, like for hours, and I like started getting ready for bed.
• 32:35
  Katie: At almost midnight I was taking my socks off, bent over, and my water broke.
• 32:40
  Katie: I wasn't in labor prior to that.
• 32:42
  Katie: So then I was like, well, I guess it doesn't matter if there's everybody else having their baby, I'm having my baby too.
• 32:48
  Katie: So we went to the hospital and, you know, many, many hours later she came out.
• 32:53
  Katie: So I took a shower, I remember, before we went to the hospital, and then we went, so it was probably, and I was having contractions by then.
• 33:03
  Katie: You know, like pretty I thought they were pretty regular, I don't know like five minutes apart or something like that far.
• 33:09
  Katie: So we just went straight there and again, my doctor wasn't on, so I had somebody else, who I will not say because I have not nice things to say about them.
• 33:18
  Katie: So, anyway, we got there and, you know, checked in and the baby was at that point I didn't know this, but like the baby was on the sunny side up or what is that posterior, I was having back labor.
• 33:33
  Katie: It was extremely painful, you know, and having gone through labor and delivery, you know, like the first time the baby was tiny, you know, obviously it was I didn't, I didn't need medical intervention.
• 33:48
  Katie: I think I took a.
• 33:49
  Katie: I think I took a Motrin, one Motrin partway, because they were like this could be like 20 hours, because your body obviously shouldn't be wanting to have like going to labor.
• 33:59
  Katie: And so like when I was extremely like having a lot of extreme pain, I was like, oh, I'll take a Motrin.
• 34:05
  Katie: And then it was like five minutes later the baby was born.
• 34:11
  Katie: So, um, that time.
• 34:11
  Katie: So I was like I am tough, I didn't need pain meds.
• 34:15
  Katie: I mean, obviously, little, tiny baby, it's like a totally different thing.
• 34:18
  Katie: You're like dilating.
• 34:19
  Katie: At that point it's like you don't have the dilate very much for the baby to come out.
• 34:23
  Katie: But even so, I was like I will be fine, I will be great, I don't need, I will not need an epidural or whatever.
• 34:33
  Katie: Like I won't need that, I can do this.
• 34:33
  Katie: And so that was my plan.
• 34:35
  Katie: Because of the back labor it was just so, so painful.
• 34:38
  Katie: And then early on they they were like we want to put a monitor on you and so like a couple of things I could do to like make it feel better.
• 34:48
  Katie: They wouldn't let me really do, because I was needing this.
• 34:53
  Katie: Have the spetal monitor.
• 34:54
  Katie: They like put that one that like goes inside of their head.
• 34:57
  Katie: You don't know.
• 34:57
  Katie: It's like it like pumps through the hole inside their of their little head skin, which I didn't know that that's what it did until she was born and she had a booboo on her head and I was like what is this?
• 35:08
  Angela: you broke my baby is that one of your complaints about that other doctors, that they didn't really inform you what?
• 35:14
  Katie: that was it was.
• 35:16
  Katie: I do I know who it was and I don't want to say because I don't want to give her bad crap, but like, anyway, yeah, every time she came into the room it was only a handful of times, honestly, and I was in labor for 18 hours so, but she was like advocating for pitocin, advocating for an epidural, from like the very like the first time she came in I had only been there, like you know, half an hour or something, like I wasn't, I wasn't very far along, and it's like my, my water really just broke like an hour ago, like, give me a little time before you decide you need to intervene.
• 35:51
  Katie: But like, literally every time she was really bullying and whatever, and my husband actually kicked her out of the room every time because I would just be crying.
• 36:00
  Katie: I just totally couldn't handle her trying to pressure me into choosing something different than what I was saying I wanted, even though it was painful.
• 36:11
  Katie: Yeah, I don't know.
• 36:13
  Katie: I know that the hospital here in Bangor at the time they did not have a baby-friendly certification and I'm not sure if they do now either.
• 36:21
  Katie: I don't really know what all you need to do to earn it, but I remember at the time, them saying that they're working on getting to be more baby-friendly because of some of the things that we'd asked for, like asking for skin-to-skin right away and the golden hour and that stuff, and back then that wasn't their normal protocol.
• 36:40
  Katie: So I don't know if, like, some of these things might be different with that same doctor now than they as they were back then, but like they didn't really try.
• 36:49
  Katie: The nursing staff they were nice, but like they didn't try to really help with pain management other than just suggesting the epidural for an over.
• 36:57
  Katie: So, um, I don't remember how long I held out, but like it was.
• 37:02
  Katie: It was a while, but it wasn't that long of a while before they finally like convinced me.
• 37:08
  Katie: I guess I had to have pitocin and I had to get the epidural and I think I was.
• 37:15
  Katie: I mean, I think at that point I was like dilated to four or five.
• 37:18
  Katie: You know, like I was making highway and it wasn't like I'd been in labor for 12 hours or something, I think it was maybe six.
• 37:26
  Katie: Like when water broke at midnight it was like 1206.
• 37:30
  Katie: So I was at the hospital.
• 37:33
  Katie: For sure I was there by one 30, but it might've been earlier than that.
• 37:37
  Katie: We live very close by, as soon as they were going to give me any kind of pain meds and actually sorry, I forgot about this so at one point they were like, well, we can give you this IV medication.
• 37:50
  Katie: It's like a narcotic or opioid or something.
• 37:55
  Katie: It makes you trip out.
• 37:57
  Katie: And I didn't know what it was.
• 37:59
  Katie: But they said, oh, it makes you kind of like, lessens the pain a little.
• 38:03
  Katie: It's like it makes the pain duller.
• 38:05
  Katie: It usually is like how it wears off After a while.
• 38:08
  Katie: It's not an epidural.
• 38:09
  Katie: The risks of complication, you know, are a lot lower, you know, compared to like if you have an epidural there's all those things that could happen.
• 38:18
  Katie: There'd be complications.
• 38:20
  Katie: You'd have that like just you don't if you don't have one.
• 38:23
  Katie: So they're like, yeah, so it like kind of gives you a break.
• 38:26
  Katie: And I was like, okay, I guess we can try that.
• 38:29
  Katie: So at that point I needed to have I think it maybe was even before that, but like for sure, at that point I needed to have the, the internal fetal monitor.
• 38:38
  Katie: And then I had like a contraction monitor, like they normally do, and it was so trippy, like I've never done drugs before, but, holy smokes, it was just nuts.
• 38:53
  Katie: Like I was hallucinating and it was kind of scary and I think it was scary for my husband like watching me be, cause I was really scared, like, and it felt like a lot of what I remember hallucinating.
• 39:06
  Katie: I don't know if I saw anything else, but what I remember hallucinating was like a bunch of Mario's dressed up as frogs and I was like I didn't play Mario when I was a kid really Like I am not super familiar with all the different ones.
• 39:20
  Katie: So I was like asking him I was like super familiar with all the different ones, so I was like asking him.
• 39:22
  Katie: I was like is there a game of Mario where they're dressed up as frogs?
• 39:25
  Katie: Because that's what I'm seeing right now, just a bunch of Mario's.
• 39:29
  Katie: What are you talking about?
• 39:31
  Katie: Yeah, it's super weird.
• 39:33
  Katie: And I was like I know that that's not there, but like the doctor or maybe it was the nurse was there and I was like I know this isn't real like is that a thing?
• 39:41
  Katie: Like was that in a mario?
• 39:42
  Katie: Like where's this coming from?
• 39:44
  Katie: So anyway, it was weird.
• 39:47
  Katie: Um, I think that the dosage was probably too high for me, like I'm pretty sensitive to meds, so I think that probably was part of it.
• 39:53
  Katie: But but anyway, learned my lesson there, would not do that again.
• 39:57
  Katie: Um, it does dull the pain, but it also is like you know, you're hallucinating and and it was scary and you know, like it, it lasted.
• 40:07
  Katie: It took a long time for it to totally wear off, you know.
• 40:10
  Katie: So you can only have it twice, I think, which I didn't know, like when they gave it to me at the beginning either.
• 40:15
  Katie: So you know, it's like if, if you can only get medicine to help you, help, you know, kick the edge off a couple times and you're going to be in labor for 20 hours, like you might want to strategically place those.
• 40:28
  Katie: But anyway, they didn't tell me that until you know, until later.
• 40:32
  Katie: So so that that's a definitely consideration.
• 40:38
  Katie: But anyway, with that pregnancy, you know, with Fiona, I had the trippy medicine, um, had the, you know, had the monitors.
• 40:44
  Katie: Then you know they were insisting, I think so I think I was progressing fine until they gave me that medicine.
• 40:51
  Katie: And then and I think I've noticed this with all my pregnancies, when I've had any kind of medical like, like drug intubation, I think my like dilation slowed down.
• 41:03
  Katie: So I don't know what that's about, but I've noticed it every time.
• 41:07
  Katie: So this last time I didn't have anything like I didn't have an epidural or anything at all, and I didn't experience that.
• 41:15
  Katie: So I think that it really is something about me and the medicine.
• 41:20
  Angela: Um that's a very common story.
• 41:22
  Angela: We hear about just a lot of women when they have the interventions and things slow down.
• 41:26
  Angela: It's very common.
• 41:29
  Katie: You would think that they would tell you that.
• 41:32
  Katie: Well, I guess they probably don't want to tell you if they want you to have the intervention that they think would be helpful to you.
• 41:38
  Angela: It's really all about money.
• 41:39
  Katie: Unfortunately, I did find out when I had.
• 41:41
  Katie: So when I had my first delivery, when we got our medical bill from the hospital, it had some kind of a little bit itemized stuff on it and there were things on there that I thought I didn't have this and so I had called the insurance company about it and they basically said like, oh, it doesn't really matter, we pay a flat rate for delivery.
• 42:01
  Katie: So it's like labor and delivery.
• 42:03
  Katie: We, you know, we pay x amount of dollars.
• 42:06
  Katie: It doesn't really matter what you specifically had.
• 42:08
  Katie: Because I was concerned because it said I had had what?
• 42:11
  Katie: Was it morphine or something?
• 42:14
  Katie: And I was like I did not have morphine, like there is no way.
• 42:18
  Katie: I had one, one motrin, no morphine, you know.
• 42:22
  Katie: And I didn't have any medication or like you know nothing, no pain meds after, because it doesn't hurt anymore, really you know.
• 42:32
  Katie: So I was like, where did this morphine go?
• 42:33
  Katie: You know, I was concerned.
• 42:35
  Katie: You know that somebody at the hospital is stealing morphine.
• 42:37
  Katie: And I called the hospital too and they're like, oh no, it says here in your file you've had morphine at this time and I was like there is no way.
• 42:43
  Katie: Um, because I absolutely didn't.
• 42:45
  Katie: But anyway, um, but apparently they have like a flat rate that they pay for labor and delivery for insurance companies.
• 42:50
  Katie: So I don't know what the deal is, but anyway I do agree with you.
• 42:56
  Katie: There's probably a big, you know, obviously there's a medical hospital, drugs, all that.
• 43:02
  Katie: There's a, there's quite a I don't know what the word is that I'm thinking of but yeah, there's a lot of made there, not yet, yeah, definitely.
• 43:14
  Katie: So anyway, those, those meds that they like said I had to have the internal monitor, but I don't remember exactly.
• 43:22
  Katie: But anyway, eventually she came out.
• 43:26
  Angela: How was your postpartum time with her?
• 43:30
  Katie: Mostly fine we had.
• 43:31
  Katie: So my mom was in town with me for to help me out with her for I think two weeks and then my in-laws were here and I think around like I don't know, partway through my in-laws being here, I kind of had a little meltdown, but and they're great people, so like I think it was like some kind of hormone crash.
• 43:50
  Katie: You know where I was, like I remember like crying and crying when my mom left, like it was like don't leave.
• 43:57
  Katie: Like I didn't tell her that, but I think it was like I dropped her off at the airport and then I just cried yeah, it was like maybe a week into when my in-laws were here that I like I remember going and hiding in the baby's room like to feed her and I just like was crying in the chair.
• 44:11
  Katie: I just felt so overwhelmed by like they're wanting to help, but like you law kept being like here, can I get you a drink of water?
• 44:24
  Katie: You know, can I get you a snack?
• 44:25
  Katie: Have you eaten enough?
• 44:25
  Katie: You know, like trying to take care of me, trying to help me, but I just I was like I need alone time, I need to be by myself.
• 44:30
  Katie: So, um, but I think that, like I've noticed that with my others too, most of the time that, like around you know, like a couple weeks out, I have at least one really weepy day, but other than that I was sleep deprived.
• 44:47
  Katie: But we were really happy.
• 44:48
  Katie: We were happy that she was out safe and it was obviously fun having a newborn and all that After all of those losses the first birth right.
• 45:00
  Angela: Is that just?
• 45:02
  Katie: And we looked at her and she was alive, like I mean, we knew she was alive, but you know, it was like it was very surreal to see her little face and she was I don't know like I think because she was so late, you know, like almost 41 weeks she like was laying on my, on my chest, and she like lifted her head like a turtle and the nurses both were like what just happened?
• 45:24
  Katie: Like what is she doing?
• 45:25
  Katie: So like she had extreme neck strength.
• 45:28
  Angela: They're a very amazing baby so now, when did you find out you're pregnant the next time after this, and were your thoughts and choosing your care kind of along the same lines?
• 45:39
  Katie: yeah, yeah, so I, the next time I was, I found out I was pregnant I don't know, april, maybe, something like that, I'm trying to think.
• 45:47
  Katie: So I, so my daughter was I don't know what is that they're?
• 45:52
  Katie: They're basically like exactly two years apart, like almost exactly.
• 45:55
  Katie: So I, you know, I was pretty early on choosing my care.
• 45:59
  Katie: I, you know, I was pretty early on choosing my care.
• 46:01
  Katie: I like Dr Rinaldi, so I've stuck with her.
• 46:05
  Katie: I think that as I thought about when the baby would be born, I cared a lot more about advocating for myself and not having just any old doctor.
• 46:16
  Katie: So I really felt, I felt very strongly that if I went into labor I would stay at home as long as possible until I absolutely needed to go to the hospital.
• 46:24
  Katie: So for him, my labor was really really fast.
• 46:28
  Katie: Yeah, fiona was my only long labor, so with him it was really really fast.
• 46:33
  Katie: And so my water broke at around 3 in the morning and I was like I'm going to stay here as long as I can, you know, whatever.
• 46:42
  Katie: And he was, he was born at seven, 45 that morning.
• 46:45
  Katie: So hospital, five, 30, something like that.
• 46:50
  Katie: So we were calling our friend who was like and I come over and be with her.
• 46:54
  Katie: But I was like I'll wait, I'm not going to call Jennifer in the middle of the night, you know, like she's, she will value getting her sleep Like I'll wait until like 8am.
• 47:03
  Katie: You know which, if I, obviously if I'd done that, we would have had the baby here.
• 47:07
  Katie: But once I got to the point where, like, my contractions were close, really close, which didn't take long, and and I was in a lot of pain my husband's like we need to call Jennifer, we need to call her now.
• 47:19
  Katie: So we were calling and calling, and of course the middle of the night, and calling her husband's phone, calling their house phone, the cell phone.
• 47:27
  Katie: Eventually we got a hold of them, which I don't think it really took that long, what it felt like a long time at that point.
• 47:33
  Katie: And, yeah, there had been a snowstorm that night.
• 47:37
  Katie: So she had to shovel out her car to come and she actually sent us in her cars to the hospital because she's like you don't want to have to shovel, like you don't have time, like she thought I was going to have the baby right then, you know, at home.
• 47:48
  Katie: But by the time we got to the hospital and like I got, I was thinking this is going to be at least 10 hours of labor.
• 47:54
  Katie: You know, like for sure a second child is faster, but like it's still gonna be long is what I had thought and I was like I can't handle this anymore, I'm going to need an epidural.
• 48:03
  Katie: There's just not a way.
• 48:04
  Katie: Like with Fiona I did have that when they gave me the Pitocin, I finally was like, okay, let's just do this.
• 48:10
  Katie: The other drugs, you know, they said they can only do twice.
• 48:12
  Katie: So it's like, well, that's not going to help me for, you know, 10 or 20 hours If I need it.
• 48:18
  Katie: You know if I'm in labor forever.
• 48:19
  Katie: So with him I was like I'm, I'm a wimp, I'm just gonna have to get the epidural and um.
• 48:25
  Katie: So I told him that when I checked in and by the time that I actually got it, I was already at nine um, which I didn't know at the time until after, after they put it.
• 48:35
  Katie: And then, like they checked me and they're like, oh, you're at nine, get ready to push.
• 48:38
  Katie: I was like, wait, what?
• 48:40
  Katie: Okay, I guess I made it all the way here by myself and I could have done it.
• 48:46
  Katie: I'm so pumped.
• 48:47
  Katie: Yeah.
• 48:49
  Katie: So he, so my labor with him, like from start to finish less than four hours.
• 48:53
  Katie: So that's a totally different experience.
• 48:55
  Katie: Didn't have any time for anything at the hospital.
• 48:59
  Katie: When I got there, they gave me an IV because they do that fluid before they give you an epidural and then they placed the epidural.
• 49:06
  Katie: I think they had to place it twice.
• 49:09
  Katie: I remember that because when they put it in the first time and the guy who the anesthesiologist I had with those 2 was the same guy and he was so great when I was pregnant with Fiona I had had a fainting episode, like at one point I was like maybe 26 weeks or something like that.
• 49:27
  Katie: Like I was halfway I just fainted and nobody they still aren't sure why, but maybe because my I have really naturally low blood pressure, like it's very, very low, so so that's the only guess we have.
• 49:40
  Katie: Is that maybe my blood pressure, like it's very, very low.
• 49:41
  Katie: So so that's the only guess we have.
• 49:42
  Katie: Is that maybe my blood pressure dipped just low enough that I passed out?
• 49:45
  Katie: But he you know that's in my records, so he was very cautious both times about like making sure that you know, I don't know like making sure that whatever he could do, that like wouldn't cause something like that to happen wouldn't happen.
• 49:58
  Katie: And he was way, way more cautious than the nurses and doctors the other people were, you know, who were like, oh, she's fine and he's like she's not, like we're gonna do this this way.
• 50:09
  Katie: So he was great.
• 50:10
  Katie: But I don't know what the deal was.
• 50:11
  Katie: But you know, I was having contractions and I was like it really hurts, like as you're putting, as he was putting it in, and they're like you're having a contraction.
• 50:19
  Katie: And I was like no, my back hurts, like when you're putting it in it hurts.
• 50:23
  Katie: So I don't know what that was, but he took it out and replaced it and it was fine, you know.
• 50:27
  Katie: I mean, obviously it hurts when you're in, but it was something different.
• 50:31
  Katie: I would say the same, except for, you know, there were times when you know, like juggling two kids is different than one, and I remember this.
• 50:38
  Katie: I remember the first night I had to do bedtime with them both.
• 50:41
  Katie: Like my husband would his job at the time, like he would have to go to some things in the evening a couple nights a week, and so he wasn't there for bedtime, and I remember it was horrible.
• 50:52
  Katie: So my daughter wanted to be rocked to bed in the chair, you know, like a rock to sleep.
• 50:58
  Katie: I don't know if I don't remember, if she would like always go all the way to sleep or just like almost asleep, but anyway she wanted to rock in the rocking chair and prior to having a baby we would do that most nights, like rock for a while before she went in her bed.
• 51:10
  Katie: But that night it was just me and baby and I did not plan ahead of time very well, and so Miles woke up hungry right at bedtime for her and I put it.
• 51:24
  Katie: You know, so I put her, so I did what I could, but not the rocking part, and I put her in her crib and she's like laying there crying and saying mama, hold you and baby brother in the chair Cause she called herself you at the time, baby in the chair.
• 51:41
  Katie: It was like, oh, I'll share, I don't even need you to hold me by myself.
• 51:45
  Katie: But he was so hungry and I would like feed him for like a minute and then I'd run in there like I'd placate him, put him, put him down and think like maybe I can just like go in there and get her settled and then come back and feed him.
• 51:57
  Katie: But then he was unhappy and hungry again.
• 52:00
  Katie: It was like back and forth multiple times and I remember I was crying too.
• 52:05
  Katie: So I called the next day.
• 52:08
  Katie: I called a friend and I was like I may need you to come over and hold the baby while I put Fiona to bed, so that we don't have this problem again.
• 52:17
  Katie: I think I did have her come over that night.
• 52:19
  Katie: The next time I was by myself with them and just after one time of having somebody else there, it was like I figured out the rhythm and it wasn't so bad.
• 52:28
  Katie: But I remember that that was my.
• 52:32
  Katie: I think that was the low point of having a little newborn and that was right before the pandemic.
• 52:37
  Katie: My maternity leave ended the day the lockdown started.
• 52:42
  Katie: So like I never went back to work, like not even one day, like you know, with him right when he was a baby, I didn't.
• 52:49
  Katie: So it was just kind of a weird.
• 52:52
  Katie: I mean, it was like the world was in a weird situation back then, obviously, and it was like a very strange time to do anything.
• 52:59
  Katie: So a lot of things postpartum with him were, you know, strongly affected by the pandemic, and you know I didn't.
• 53:05
  Katie: It was winter, and then you know, like when he was born and then, you know, the pandemic started.
• 53:11
  Katie: So like I just was here all the time with him, you know, and with her, because we just didn't go anywhere.
• 53:18
  Katie: There was nowhere to go and honestly that wasn't that bad for me.
• 53:22
  Katie: I know some people get stir crazy, but I really wasn't.
• 53:25
  Katie: It was like it was kind of nice that I wasn't missing out on anything.
• 53:29
  Katie: Other people aren't doing anything fun, Everyone's at home and I'm at home too and I'm okay being inside.
• 53:36
  Katie: My husband is a real outside guy, so he was being in the house is hard for him to be inside, you know, for long periods of time, like for like weeks, that would be crushing his soul, but for me it's really not as big of a deal to like actually physically leave the house.
• 53:52
  Katie: So like postpartum it was, it was fine to be locked in with the little kids and just you know, like there's nothing else to do in the world and that's fine.
• 54:03
  Angela: So now will you share about when you found out you were pregnant?
• 54:06
  Katie: next, when Miles was almost one, I found out I had a thyroid issue and, like had had some some weird symptoms.
• 54:17
  Katie: Um, I thought I maybe was going through menopause, cause, you know, like early menopause can happen in your 30s.
• 54:23
  Katie: So I was like that's what's happening.
• 54:25
  Katie: But it actually was my thyroid, just out of luck, and so I was having weird issues and it was all thyroid related.
• 54:32
  Katie: I don't remember, like with some of our earlier pregnancies, they, you know, they offered for us to come in and have more ultrasounds early on and things like that.
• 54:44
  Katie: I don't know if we did anything like that this time with number eight.
• 54:48
  Katie: I think that having had to full term basically low risk, no complications going through that twice, I felt a lot more normal, I guess, about it and I knew there's not really much that they can see anyway.
• 55:03
  Katie: So, um, you know, I I think that I probably requested a beta HCG, um, cause I don't think I did this past time, but I think that almost every other time I did to just see, like, is it doubling at the right intervals?
• 55:17
  Katie: Because that's like the one thing you can see at that point to know like, okay, this baby is growing in a normal way at this point.
• 55:25
  Katie: So I might've done that or I might've requested that, but I don't know if I even saw the doctor and I called my endocrinologist to adjust my thyroid medication.
• 55:35
  Katie: I remember doing that.
• 55:35
  Katie: So that was my first time having to deal with that, um, but it was very easy, very straightforward, no complications or problems with that either.
• 55:44
  Angela: So so how are you feeling during that pregnancy?
• 55:49
  Katie: I think, I mean, I think we were pretty much excited.
• 55:51
  Katie: I was really sick, you know, obviously, um, we had booked a trip to go visit my in-laws and I think I was maybe five and a half weeks along, like we found out after we like we don't usually book them really far out, but like between when we booked it and when, like when we actually got there, I was feeling like starting to feel sick, and so I remember being at their house and like literally just being in bed as much as they would let me, because I felt so sick.
• 56:20
  Katie: So it was like here you take my little kids and play with them, go outside and do whatever in the horrible Florida weather, and I will just lay in here, but I didn't.
• 56:30
  Katie: I don't think I actually threw up, I think I just felt really sick and tired, um, while we were there.
• 56:36
  Angela: But that's, yeah, that's the one thing I remember from early on in that pregnancy was that we happened to be there visiting them so now getting into sort of your labor and birth story that time around, how um sort of walk me through like this last kind of final weeks and anything that might have come up leading up to yeah and your labor and birth story yeah, well, given that I, you know, was a geriatric pregnancy again um, it's so funny to say that because I don't feel like I'm that old, but like obviously they have a line.
• 57:07
  Katie: So because, yeah, because I was passed that line even though everything else had been fine, they really wanted me to deliver by 39 weeks out on her own, but at 39 weeks she still was on the inside.
• 57:25
  Katie: So we did an induction and, given how fast my labor had gone, the time before, they basically just were like, if you want an epidural, we're going to do it before we even start the Pitocin, because you aren't going to take long to get there.
• 57:35
  Katie: So by the time you want one, you won't be able to get it.
• 57:38
  Katie: So that's what we did.
• 57:38
  Katie: We had epidural first and they started me on the Pitocin and broke my water.
• 57:42
  Katie: And when I got to the hospital, they said, like it looked like I had been having contractions and so, like they're, like you wouldn't have had maybe a day, but like you're, yeah, Within a day or two you would have gone into labor and go, which was a little bit disappointing to me, cause I was like, like I really wanted her to come out on her own, you know.
• 58:00
  Katie: But whatever it was what it was.
• 58:01
  Katie: Oh, also this I totally forgot about this my sister-in-law found out she was pregnant at the same time and we had the exact same due date.
• 58:09
  Katie: It was like kind of fun to like I don't know, have that in common, so so yeah, so they were inducing me at 39 and did the epidural and yeah, so I was at the hospital.
• 58:24
  Katie: My mom came early to be with our other kids, so like it was really kind of a weird experience compared to like having your water break and going to labor like on a random day, whenever that is, and the excitement and kind of like the intensity of that, versus like driving to the hospital just like totally normal and knowing that eventually you're gonna have a baby that day.
• 58:47
  Katie: But yeah, we called in that morning, went to the hospital, you know they did what they needed to got the epidural in.
• 58:55
  Katie: I don't remember when they actually broke my water and started labor, but like it was.
• 59:00
  Katie: You know it's about the same as mine, you know, my son it was like three or four hours before I delivered, but I didn't like the feeling of being like I mean, I wasn't really strapped to the table.
• 59:13
  Katie: But you know they have all the monitors on you and you are on your bed and you really can't move once you've had an epidural.
• 59:20
  Katie: So they're like rotating you and doing what they can do and checking you periodically Like you can't really do anything.
• 59:27
  Katie: You can feel the contraction even though you have an epidural.
• 59:31
  Katie: It's still not comfortable and anyway I didn't like it.
• 59:36
  Angela: Potosin can make those contractions so much more intense.
• 59:39
  Angela: Yeah, they're so sharp.
• 59:41
  Katie: Yeah, definitely.
• 59:42
  Katie: Yeah, I remember laying there thinking like I wish I could roll over, I wish I could, like, change my position, but I can't.
• 59:47
  Katie: I can't move at all, you know, and they would do stuff for me if I asked, but like I just didn't like it.
• 59:52
  Katie: And I like, years ago I had seen one of those like I don't know it wasn't PETA, but like one of those pamphlets from an animal rights activist group and there was a picture of this like mother hog strapped to the floor to nurse her babies in this position so that she'd stay in position to keep nursing or whatever, for the piglets that they would put in there with her.
• 1:00:14
  Katie: And I mean, it was really.
• 1:00:15
  Katie: Of course it was like a horribly sad picture.
• 1:00:17
  Katie: That's why they used it, but like that's what came to mind when I was going through it.
• 1:00:21
  Katie: It was like I just feel like this livestock, you know, like, like just we're going to strap you down and have this baby come out, or you know, they didn't have that kind of attitude at all.
• 1:00:29
  Katie: My nursing staff, my doctors, they were all great, but like I did not like that feeling of not being able to move and having it from start to finish, which I think was different than like when I had the epidural, like with number two or, like you know, with, I guess, our seventh pregnancy or our son, like by the time I got to the hospital and I wanted the epidural, you know, I had been in labor and I was almost done, and so it just felt really different to be like I can't do anything to help myself.
• 1:00:56
  Katie: I can't, I'm just like stuck here from start to finish, just I don't know.
• 1:01:00
  Katie: It just felt really, really can't.
• 1:01:01
  Katie: I'm just like stuck here from start to finish, just I don't know.
• 1:01:02
  Katie: It just felt really really weird to not be able to move but not to be in any pain at the beginning.
• 1:01:05
  Katie: You know, like I don't know so, so that is the one thing that I was like I didn't like that part of the process, but everything else was good and fine and you know, like she was born healthy and normal and didn't have any issues, you know, no complications.
• 1:01:22
  Katie: It was post COVID and so like the protocols at the hospital oh, this is something I forgot when we went in with her because of COVID, like, even though it was, it was the end, like very end, of 2021.
• 1:01:33
  Katie: , so like their COVID protocols, I think were.
• 1:01:37
  Katie: I mean, they were still in place but they weren't as necessary.
• 1:01:40
  Katie: You know, like I think like the pandemic, the pandemic was still technically a thing, but like it really wasn't a problem that people were experiencing anymore.
• 1:01:48
  Katie: Like I don't think people were really, generally speaking, weren't really scared about it.
• 1:01:52
  Katie: Oh, but with that pregnancy, also because of that, because of the pandemic, um, and now I'm like it's all coming back.
• 1:02:00
  Katie: That's what that summer was.
• 1:02:02
  Katie: Oh, my, um, like my husband had to watch our kids every time I had an ultrasound.
• 1:02:08
  Katie: I wasn't allowed to bring them with us, so he like wasn't there for any of the ultrasounds until my very last one before the baby was born, cause my mom was in town for that.
• 1:02:20
  Katie: But it was just so challenging finding, with the pandemic, stuff you know, like people were more cautious about if you have a sniffle or anything like.
• 1:02:27
  Katie: So it was hard to find somebody to watch our kids, like even a friend.
• 1:02:30
  Katie: So he missed all of that which you know he'd been through it before.
• 1:02:34
  Katie: So I don't think it was like tragic for him, but even so, I think it was a little bit.
• 1:02:38
  Katie: That was a little bit sad.
• 1:02:38
  Katie: Yeah, so that was kind of a different thing, like even the gender reveal.
• 1:02:46
  Katie: Like you know, when we went in for our 20 week ultrasound or when I went in, he was with the kids in the lobby and I asked like could I FaceTime with him just for the part about the baby?
• 1:02:52
  Katie: And technically they're not supposed to let you, but they did, let me do it for just that, so that like we could all find out at the same time.
• 1:02:59
  Katie: So yeah, so that was just kind of weird.
• 1:03:01
  Katie: It was a weird experience.
• 1:03:08
  Katie: But we had the masks on when we first got there and they had a nurse who had transferred from a different department.
• 1:03:11
  Katie: She was really new, like very young.
• 1:03:12
  Katie: I'm guessing that the other department she'd been was probably her first job after college and so they were having her do like all the setup and stuff on me and she could not get the IV in.
• 1:03:23
  Katie: And I have really good veins, so I don't know what was going on there, but like she could not get it in and I almost I like started to black out from from whatever she was doing.
• 1:03:32
  Katie: So they took my mask off and I didn't have to have a mask on the whole rest of the time.
• 1:03:37
  Katie: So, even though it was horrible, the IV process and then eventually they actually had a different nurse do it.
• 1:03:42
  Katie: But it was awesome because they didn't have to wear the mask while I was in labor, which was something that I just felt like this should not be how it is.
• 1:03:49
  Katie: Like poor woman's having birth, like giving birth, they shouldn't have to wear a mask.
• 1:03:54
  Katie: Like fine if everybody else needs to, but like let this poor person have their baby.
• 1:03:59
  Katie: And I'd known enough, you know, a handful of people who had had a baby during COVID and had to wear a mask and I was like I don't even know if I could do that.
• 1:04:06
  Katie: I would have her mentally, I know I would, but I, you know, ended up not having to.
• 1:04:10
  Angela: So it really messes with like the hormonal process of the whole birth process too, because you know when your baby comes out there's all sorts of like things happening where you smell your baby and it's just barrier.
• 1:04:21
  Katie: Yeah, you can't like, they don't like for the first two days of their life they don't see their parents face.
• 1:04:26
  Katie: Like very strange.
• 1:04:28
  Katie: But anyway, I didn't have to keep my mask on ever again, like they didn't make me put it on at all.
• 1:04:33
  Katie: Actually, I did have to wear it for like five minutes because the cleaning lady came in to empty the trash and she wanted me to have it on, but aside from that I didn't have to put it on again.
• 1:04:41
  Katie: So that was good.
• 1:04:43
  Katie: Um, yeah, it was kind of weird.
• 1:04:45
  Angela: Um, yeah, so anyway, so how was your postpartum that time around?
• 1:04:51
  Katie: it was.
• 1:04:51
  Katie: I think it was about the same as what it had been before.
• 1:04:54
  Katie: You know, like I I don't know I I'm sure that I had some couple of crying days, but generally okay, and we we wised up that time and had our parents like take a gap in between when they came to visit us and I think that that kind of helps to like to just have like a breather in the middle.
• 1:05:15
  Katie: And at that point I was working and my husband was working and both of us like had parent leave.
• 1:05:23
  Katie: So so that was really nice, Cause, like we just had a longer period of time that we were both home.
• 1:05:31
  Katie: So, like previously I think he'd had like two weeks apparently when our older kids were born, but this time it was longer.
• 1:05:40
  Katie: So I think he was home for about a month.
• 1:05:42
  Katie: So that was just.
• 1:05:44
  Katie: It was kind of it was nice.
• 1:05:45
  Katie: It was different.
• 1:05:46
  Katie: She was born in November, so like we had some like more decent weather too.
• 1:05:52
  Katie: Like they're like she was the only one of my, you know, older kids that didn't have snow on the ground or it was freezing or you know like some kind of crazy weather.
• 1:06:03
  Katie: When she was born.
• 1:06:04
  Katie: It was like, oh, we just got in the car they were, you know, like no snow on the ground, like no prepping the car, Like it was fine.
• 1:06:11
  Katie: So that was nice, yeah, so postpartum wise, like that was.
• 1:06:17
  Katie: It was pretty relaxing, I think, or you know, comparatively.
• 1:06:23
  Katie: But our older kids couldn't come to the hospital to meet the baby, so we had to wait until we came home.
• 1:06:27
  Katie: And we came home the next day.
• 1:06:28
  Katie: We had to kind of fight for it.
• 1:06:30
  Katie: I remember that because with our son, he had been born so early in the morning that they were like it was like no big deal to let us go the next day, were like it was like no big deal to let us go the next day.
• 1:06:45
  Katie: So we were home by lunch, um, the next day, because our 24 hour tests and everything were done.
• 1:06:48
  Katie: He was born at seven, 45 in the morning, so like they were gone early in the day and then we were discharged and so when I asked to be discharged the next day, they kind of were like no, no, we're going to keep you here.
• 1:06:58
  Katie: And I was like no, I really want to go home.
• 1:07:00
  Katie: I have other kids at home, I don't want to be here, I can't leave this room.
• 1:07:04
  Katie: You want me to wear a mask.
• 1:07:05
  Katie: You know when anybody comes in here and you know it's like it was the way that they did food.
• 1:07:11
  Katie: That time was different, Like because of COVID, everything was really I don't know, it's just really restricted.
• 1:07:26
  Katie: So it was like this is a horrible place.
• 1:07:27
  Katie: I don't like being in this room, Like I want to go home and I want my kids to get to meet the baby, whatever.
• 1:07:30
  Katie: So we did get discharged, but it took a little longer and then, yeah, I don't know A recovery was pretty normal, I think.
• 1:07:32
  Angela: So when did you find out you're pregnant now for this most recent time?
• 1:07:37
  Katie: Again, I was.
• 1:07:38
  Katie: It was early on, but I really really did not expect to be pregnant that time.
• 1:07:46
  Katie: I don't know, I don't know why.
• 1:07:48
  Katie: This time in particular, I remember feeling like I don't think that this is going to be positive.
• 1:07:52
  Katie: But a lot of times, like I was like see, really hoping it would be, like in previous pregnancies, even if I wasn't sure, or I thought I probably am, and then I wasn't you know different times.
• 1:08:03
  Katie: But this time my doctor had told me, like if you're not preventing, like if you're not using birth control of some kind, like to just have pregnancy tests on hand, you know, so that you can periodically double check on yourself, especially if you're breastfeeding, because, like you may not have your cycle back for a long time.
• 1:08:20
  Katie: So I just had this box of like cheapy pregnancy tests from Amazon and they are ridiculously sensitive.
• 1:08:29
  Katie: They're like the cheapest ones in the world and that's why I bought them.
• 1:08:33
  Katie: You can get like a box of 20 of them for $10 or something like super cheap, or maybe even cheaper than that.
• 1:08:39
  Katie: But they also just tend to be, in my experience and I've been pregnant a lot, so I think that I am an expert on this Like they are really really sensitive, like I've had them show a positive before.
• 1:08:51
  Katie: I was even 28 days past my last cycle, like like before I'm even four weeks pregnant, so they're very sensitive.
• 1:08:58
  Katie: So you know, like every couple months I would check, or if I had a symptom that made me think, well, maybe I should, then I would check.
• 1:09:06
  Katie: I don't remember why it prompted me to do it.
• 1:09:08
  Katie: I think I just was kind of like, okay, well, it's been a while, I probably should do one and I was pregnant and I was very surprised, yeah.
• 1:09:16
  Katie: So I think I remember feeling like prior to that I, just given my age, my mom had early menopause so and like some issues hormonally when she was way younger than I am now.
• 1:09:31
  Katie: So I I guess I think I had always expected that that would be the case for me to that like I would probably have menopause early or have hormonal issues early that would require me to be do something to like regulate my cycle.
• 1:09:45
  Katie: So I kind of just like every time I'd have a baby and then, like my cycle would come back, but it would it because of my thyroid.
• 1:09:52
  Katie: Sometimes it's really long, especially because I'm nursing, and so I kind of always thought like, well, maybe I just I'm going to crash into menopause.
• 1:10:01
  Katie: Maybe that's what's happening, maybe that's why I haven't come back yet, you know, and then eventually it would.
• 1:10:06
  Katie: I think that when we had, you know, our older two and we got pregnant for number three, I was like really hoping we'd have a third kid at some point.
• 1:10:15
  Katie: I think is what I think is what I was feeling at the time.
• 1:10:19
  Katie: But I, this time, I think I felt just different.
• 1:10:24
  Katie: It was like it was just such a surprise to me because in my mind I I had kept thinking like this might be the last time we're going through this, you know, because I knew I was getting like I'm getting older and you know my mom getting like I'm getting older and you know my mom, my mom was long done by now, like you know, like I have like beat her time frame by a lot, and so I just kind of just was like this probably is last one, so, um.
• 1:10:57
  Katie: So I was just really surprised and I was like I don't even know how I feel about this.
• 1:10:59
  Katie: This is crazy.
• 1:10:59
  Katie: But you know, my husband was really excited.
• 1:11:01
  Katie: I was, I mean, I was excited too.
• 1:11:02
  Katie: I just was really shocked, I think, which normally it was mostly just excited, and this time I was really surprised and I think I was also like really nervous, because sometimes I've been so, so sick that, like I was like I have little children, what am I going to do if I'm super sick?
• 1:11:23
  Katie: Like, how am I going to take care of them?
• 1:11:24
  Katie: Because, like previously, when I had been pregnant, it had lined up with, like this downtime in my husband's work where he was able to be working from home or be more flexible if I needed his help, and so usually, like I would take care of the kids in the morning and then I would be really sick in the afternoon, but he could like be at home and work from there.
• 1:11:45
  Katie: But he had a different job this time and so it was like not, that wasn't an option and I was like, what am I going to do?
• 1:11:51
  Katie: Like, if I can't function?
• 1:11:53
  Katie: I'm just literally be laying on the couch and the kids are going to be tearing the house apart, like I'll just be there puking, yeah.
• 1:12:00
  Katie: But I honestly think like like God was just really gracious to me this time, because that was a big fear I had and I was sick, but I was.
• 1:12:09
  Katie: I think I only threw up like twice, which is really really different from every other pregnancy I had.
• 1:12:16
  Katie: You know, like if I got, if I made it far enough to feel sick, I was puking a lot with the other kids, but this time it was like I just felt crappy for a long, long time, but like I was functional.
• 1:12:28
  Katie: So that was just really that was a pleasant surprise and really kind.
• 1:12:37
  Angela: How were you kind of feeling throughout the rest of your pregnancy, kind of leading up to your labor and birth?
• 1:12:42
  Katie: yeah, generally pretty good.
• 1:12:44
  Katie: With all my kids I've had heartburn.
• 1:12:45
  Katie: They all come out with a full head of hair.
• 1:12:47
  Katie: I mean you can see it here, um, they're all like that, so that's not really a surprise, and but like I hadn't had any other issues that I can remember, I well, this time, actually now I say that this time my, apparently my iron will dip every pregnancy which I've never cracked my iron so like that specific level, that it that.
• 1:13:08
  Katie: So I didn't know that.
• 1:13:09
  Katie: Like you know, I've had labs and I know, like, is it in the bad zone or is it in a good zone?
• 1:13:14
  Katie: But like for many years, I've, you know, like many women, you know like my iron level has not always been in the right place.
• 1:13:22
  Katie: You know, like we I feel like we all kind of struggle with that a little bit, um, women I mean but I've been on an like an over the counter iron tablet in the past and have been, for, I think, with all my pregnancies they they had me on it just preventatively.
• 1:13:38
  Katie: I think with all my pregnancies they had me on it just preventatively.
• 1:13:43
  Katie: But this time I was having symptoms that I just thought were like normal for pregnancy, because it's like I have three kids, three small children, and I'm tired.
• 1:13:50
  Katie: Well, of course I'm tired, I'm pregnant and I have three little kids.
• 1:13:53
  Katie: Like of course I'm tired, but or you know, I don't know, of course I'm tired, but or you know, I don't know different things like that and I went in for labs, I don't know when it was yeah, it was closer to the end of the pregnancy, but maybe like 30, early 30, something like 32 or 33 weeks, something like that and when they did my labs my iron was really, really low, um, and so I had some iron infusions done, yeah.
• 1:14:21
  Katie: So then, you know, I was getting close to my delivery date and, of course, like I didn't want to have to be induced, but like I knew that the timeline was 39 weeks is when they would intend to induce me and they said they wanted to induce you at 39 weeks just because of my age and not obviously I wasn't having any complications or anything.
• 1:14:46
  Katie: So I don't know, I don't know, I don't really know why that number is the number, but it had to do with my age.
• 1:14:52
  Katie: And they had commented I think it was with my third that like, when you get older, sometimes your placenta I don't know, I don't want to say like shrivels up and stops working right or something like the longer you go.
• 1:15:08
  Katie: That has never been the case for me.
• 1:15:10
  Katie: All my placentas are healthy.
• 1:15:11
  Katie: But that is something they mentioned as a possibility.
• 1:15:15
  Katie: They want to make sure my placenta is healthy, you know, whatever.
• 1:15:18
  Katie: But um, oh, this time also, like when I was getting close to delivery it wasn't that close, it was in the thirties, something she was upside down, like she was breached and had been often through the pregnancy, but she also was really flippy Like she.
• 1:15:34
  Katie: I could feel her, you know, doing that.
• 1:15:36
  Katie: So so that was a concern for a hair of time.
• 1:15:39
  Katie: But like my doctor wasn't phased by it, like a lot of people were like, oh no, you know, like if you're breached, this is going to you're going to have to have a C-section.
• 1:15:47
  Katie: My doctor was really like.
• 1:15:50
  Katie: She told me to sleep on my left side.
• 1:15:51
  Katie: She told me to like put a pillow.
• 1:15:53
  Katie: How did she say, like it's supposed to, like put wedge a pillow here and like put a towel there?
• 1:15:59
  Katie: So I don't know.
• 1:16:00
  Katie: Anyway, she had like a position for me to be in, but but she wasn't really worried about it, given the baby size and stuff.
• 1:16:06
  Katie: She was like you know, people can have their baby flip like the day before they go into labor, like it until you're in labor, it's not too late.
• 1:16:13
  Katie: So that was, you know.
• 1:16:21
  Katie: I knew that I could end up having a C-section, but I appreciated that she was not in panic mode about it and she did eventually flip back over, so that was fine.
• 1:16:26
  Katie: Yeah, so I was getting closer to 39 weeks.
• 1:16:27
  Katie: I think I was maybe at 36.
• 1:16:29
  Katie: I came in for my normal checkup and my doctor was like, oh, so she's, she's from Italy, like she actually Italian, and her family had booked tickets to go home to visit the family in Italy and she was going to be gone before my due date.
• 1:16:47
  Katie: She was leaving the day before I was 39 weeks and so she's like so we're going to have to get the baby out sooner if I'm going to deliver it.
• 1:16:57
  Katie: And I'm like, okay, what do we need to do?
• 1:16:59
  Katie: Like, and in my mind when she said it I was thinking, oh well, we'll just induce it a couple of days early, like that's fine, I'm fine with that.
• 1:17:07
  Katie: If that's what it takes to have my doctor, then that's what we'll do, like, that's fine.
• 1:17:11
  Katie: And as we got closer you know, she was she apparently, and I didn't know this until probably like maybe a week before she was gone.
• 1:17:22
  Katie: That was like she had a conference or something, like there were things where she wasn't there for a while and I had other people that did my checkups.
• 1:17:30
  Katie: But um, she was like we're going to start stripping your membranes at 37 weeks.
• 1:17:34
  Katie: Try to help you go into labor on your own.
• 1:17:37
  Katie: And I was dilated.
• 1:17:39
  Katie: I think I was.
• 1:17:41
  Katie: I might've been at four before I was induced, but the baby just wasn't dropping all the way, and so it was like I was at four, but like I was not a phase.
• 1:17:51
  Katie: That was like definitely not going into labor that day.
• 1:17:53
  Katie: And I came in almost every single day, like in the like week prior to her being born or before my doctor left, sorry, in the week prior.
• 1:18:02
  Katie: But, um, have her do it again.
• 1:18:05
  Katie: And she was like I don't know if that was stressful Cause I really wanted the baby to come on her own and I really wanted my doctor to be there and I.
• 1:18:15
  Katie: But I still thought that like, well, you know, a couple of days before she leaves is when we'll actually induce, until like maybe a week before she left.
• 1:18:24
  Katie: She was like, well, the hospital won't let me induce you until 39 weeks, so I can't induce you because I won't be here.
• 1:18:33
  Katie: And it was like, are you kidding me?
• 1:18:35
  Katie: They won't make an exception for like two days when you know they consider baby's full term at 37.
• 1:18:40
  Katie: So it's like if I went into labor, naturally at that point they wouldn't bat an eye.
• 1:18:47
  Katie: But anyway, so it was.
• 1:18:50
  Katie: I was pretty frustrated about that situation.
• 1:18:52
  Katie: So we were trying, we did everything we could do.
• 1:18:55
  Katie: I like went on all the long walks, like you know whatever did, ate the spicy food, like all the things we could do, bounce on that yoga ball forever, but I was dilating, but like the baby was not dropping, so, um, so I ended up scheduling an induction, actually further out than 39 weeks.
• 1:19:13
  Katie: Um, because they couldn't schedule me on my 39 week because there were all these high risk pregnancy people who needed to be induced, because there were all these high risk pregnancy people who needed to be induced.
• 1:19:22
  Katie: So I wasn't high risk, so I didn't need it.
• 1:19:25
  Katie: Which is funny because it's like they tell you like you need to do it on 39 weeks, but then it's like, well, there's all these other people who need it more, which is fine, I mean it's fine, but it's just like mixed signals.
• 1:19:35
  Katie: Definitely I think I was 39 weeks, four days, like they could have done it sooner than that.
• 1:19:41
  Katie: But my kids had T-ball and it was finishing up and I was like, well, you know what, if we're going to induce anyway, I want to go to my kids last T-ball game and like be able to do that.
• 1:19:52
  Katie: And then it gives the baby more time to come on her own if she wants to.
• 1:19:54
  Katie: So it's like I'm not going to have my doctor anyway anyway, may as well get the things done I want to do before, before they come.
• 1:20:03
  Katie: Yeah, so that's what we did and gave my mom time to be here, like she had come early, because when they started stripping my membranes, you know, they were like we're gonna kick this baby out.
• 1:20:13
  Katie: I had her come earlier, so she was here for a long time before the baby was born and I think maybe too long, to be honest.
• 1:20:21
  Katie: Like, I think the novelty of grandma's visit was already worn off before the new baby, which is unfortunate because I had like all these boxes of fun things for them to do, like the kids to do with her while I was at the hospital and stuff.
• 1:20:35
  Katie: But I think they were starting to get a little like angsty when she would like tell them to do stuff whatever, because I kept having all these doctor appointments Like every day.
• 1:20:43
  Katie: I was going in to have my hemorrhoids checked, so that was kind of a bummer but, like you know, I mean it still was fine and I was grateful that she was here to help me get everything ready.
• 1:20:52
  Katie: So, yeah, we went in and I had my own little plan.
• 1:20:56
  Katie: I wanted to see, kind of both, if I could have, you know, no epidural birth.
• 1:21:05
  Katie: I really thought, you know, like, given my situation with my son, I was like I really could do this.
• 1:21:09
  Katie: I was so close and I also thought, like with my kids, every time it's like when my water broke, everything went fast.
• 1:21:17
  Katie: You know, it was obviously the first time.
• 1:21:19
  Katie: It was slower, but like, also, that was the first time, so that's pretty normal.
• 1:21:24
  Katie: Um, so I was like I wonder if they just break my water, if, like, I'll go into labor without the Pitocin.
• 1:21:31
  Katie: So I wanted to ask about that.
• 1:21:33
  Katie: So when I went in I asked about that and when she checked me she said the baby wasn't down low enough, that that would be safe, because she's like, you know, your cord could prolapse and obviously you don't want that.
• 1:21:43
  Katie: So so anyway, we didn't do that.
• 1:21:46
  Katie: But she gave me the Pitocin at the lowest setting and she's like we'll give you a couple hours of these low contractions, if that's what it needs, of these low contractions, if that's what it needs, and then I'll break your water and um, but like I didn't get the epidural at the beginning and you know we'll kind of play it by ear.
• 1:22:09
  Katie: And honestly I was not super excited about the pitocin contractions because they really are very painful in like one spot which is like like feels different.
• 1:22:19
  Katie: Like then they tell you like if you're having contractions, like you feel them all the way around, if they're real contractions, and that's how you can kind of tell them different from Rax and Hicks.
• 1:22:29
  Katie: But like when, when I've had Pitocin, it's like right in the front sharp low pain and that's it.
• 1:22:37
  Katie: Like that's the only place I feel the contraction and it is so painful and then I'm so sore there for like days and days because it's really just this one spot that that hurts.
• 1:22:48
  Katie: So I didn't get the epidural and I was like we're gonna just give it a try and we'll see how.
• 1:22:53
  Katie: And I talked to the nurses at length.
• 1:22:56
  Katie: I asked so many questions about, like what is the timing?
• 1:22:58
  Katie: When do I need to tell you if I do change my mind?
• 1:23:01
  Katie: You know whatever.
• 1:23:02
  Katie: Um, could I like prep my?
• 1:23:04
  Katie: Could I get prepped and then choose to not do it?
• 1:23:08
  Katie: Like because you know it takes like a half an hour or something to get somebody to come and actually do it, and you have to like get a bag of fluids and stuff.
• 1:23:16
  Katie: So it's like could I get the fluids and then like change my mind if I don't want it Like?
• 1:23:20
  Katie: You know what are my options here?
• 1:23:22
  Katie: So, anyway, I think I understand it a little bit better now after a million questions, but anyway.
• 1:23:31
  Katie: So, but like, one thing that was really helpful and I don't think I experienced this, I did not experience this with any of the other deliveries that the nursing staff they were trained on.
• 1:23:43
  Katie: Oh, what is it called?
• 1:23:45
  Katie: Is it spinning babies?
• 1:23:46
  Katie: I think?
• 1:23:47
  Katie: Um, I think that's what it was.
• 1:23:49
  Katie: Anyway, there there were trained on how to get babies into position, how to, like help you to um a little bit with pain management.
• 1:24:02
  Katie: Like they were definitely trained more for um, a no drug birth than any of the other doctor or any of the other nurses I had seen in previous.
• 1:24:14
  Katie: I mean, like I don't know, maybe the maybe with number three they would have been, but like I wasn't, that wasn't even like something we talked about, so I don't know.
• 1:24:22
  Katie: But like, definitely like, when I was there the first time, they just wanted to give me drugs.
• 1:24:27
  Katie: They were just like, get the epidural, that's what you need.
• 1:24:29
  Katie: Go get an epidural right now.
• 1:24:30
  Katie: You know, like from the very start, um, they wanted me on pitocin, they wanted me to have my epidural, but this time they were really supportive of, like what I wanted to do and were really kind about like trying to help me get into positions that would help her drop, so that they could, you know, so that they could break my water, trying to just help me navigate it so that I wouldn't have to have an epidural if I didn't want to, and really, really encouraging.
• 1:25:02
  Katie: And one of my nurses was pregnant and so she's like I'm just like you're doing a great job, I'm just hoping that when I am in labor I will do this well.
• 1:25:10
  Katie: And I was like I don't know if that's actually true, but like I felt really great Because, like, of course she's working with pregnant ladies all the time in their labor.
• 1:25:18
  Katie: So if she's saying I'm doing good, then I feel great about that.
• 1:25:22
  Katie: So anyway, they were really nice, um, and I definitely appreciated, um, the help, cause I really didn't know what I would like, what to do.
• 1:25:31
  Katie: I just, you know, I would like just move the ways.
• 1:25:33
  Katie: That kind of felt comfortable.
• 1:25:34
  Katie: But nothing really feels comfortable when you're having bad contractions.
• 1:25:37
  Katie: So you know, when you get to that end point.
• 1:25:40
  Katie: And again, like it was very fast, like once my, when they started the Pitocin, I started contracting really quickly and when they did break my water it was like fast, like I think it was maybe an hour and a half before she was totally out at that point.
• 1:25:56
  Katie: So yeah, so it was like kind of fast and furious then at the end because like it was like slow and like I dilated.
• 1:26:03
  Katie: I think I was like maybe five when they broke my water.
• 1:26:08
  Katie: And then it was just like super, super fast.
• 1:26:09
  Katie: And I had the nurse check me, like of course, you know, I have that feeling that you need to poop.
• 1:26:15
  Katie: And I really was like I think I really do need to poop.
• 1:26:17
  Katie: They're like don't push.
• 1:26:18
  Katie: And I was like I think it's really just poop.
• 1:26:20
  Katie: So I went to the bathroom and they're like don't bear down, you don't want the baby to be born in the toilet.
• 1:26:27
  Katie: And I was like I won't, I won't do that, don't worry, I won't do that.
• 1:26:30
  Katie: But it was poop.
• 1:26:32
  Katie: I did have some poop and and then she's like well, you know, since you're out of position, do you want to?
• 1:26:38
  Katie: You know, do you want me to check you?
• 1:26:40
  Katie: And I was like, yeah, please do so.
• 1:26:42
  Katie: So she checked me in.
• 1:26:43
  Katie: I had I don't know I don't remember what number I was at, but anyway I had dilated more.
• 1:26:48
  Katie: And she was like maybe it was an eight.
• 1:26:51
  Katie: I mean, I was like a lot I had I progressed considerably.
• 1:27:01
  Katie: And she's like yeah, you're doing really good.
• 1:27:02
  Katie: And and I kind of had asked her, like you know, obviously everybody's different and I expect to go fast because of my experiences previously.
• 1:27:05
  Katie: But like, what is the time frame you're hoping for when you're inducing somebody?
• 1:27:11
  Katie: And the nurse had said like well, we think it's you're doing pretty good if you're going about an inch an hour when you're dilating, so she's you know.
• 1:27:19
  Katie: So it could be evening before you're done, because I was yeah, I think it was at four when we started.
• 1:27:27
  Katie: So she's like you know it could be like late afternoon or evening, whatever, but that would be fine.
• 1:27:33
  Katie: But obviously like you could go faster or whatever, we don't you know, but that's kind of an average.
• 1:27:38
  Katie: So in my mind I was like I definitely think I'm going to go faster than that, but like that's helpful because I knew the baby was dropped.
• 1:27:45
  Katie: So it was like obviously it was going to take some time to just get her into position.
• 1:27:49
  Katie: So I think that they gave me the Pitocin around 9am and she was born to 10 or something like that.
• 1:27:56
  Katie: So it was not not long and they broke my water at I think it was 1230.
• 1:28:02
  Katie: So it was, you know, pretty quick after that.
• 1:28:04
  Katie: But it was definitely very, very intense at the end and I got to the point where I was like I cannot do this.
• 1:28:10
  Katie: I, I cannot do this.
• 1:28:13
  Katie: So I was like if it's going to be long, you need to start me on the fluid.
• 1:28:17
  Katie: I don't think we're going to make it, but start the fluid.
• 1:28:20
  Katie: I won't make it half an hour Like.
• 1:28:24
  Katie: I won't make it half an hour more without.
• 1:28:25
  Katie: So if it's going to be that long, get me started.
• 1:28:28
  Katie: But it was.
• 1:28:29
  Katie: I think it was like 10 more minutes to when she was born or maybe less than that.
• 1:28:33
  Katie: Even at that point, and I think I did scream out at the end that I thought I was going to die, something like that.
• 1:28:40
  Katie: But it was literally like right before I pushed her out and the doctor was like I can check you, like we'll get everything ready, you know, for when you're ready to push.
• 1:28:49
  Katie: And I was like no, I need to push now.
• 1:28:51
  Katie: Like it's like I know what I'm doing, I need to push now.
• 1:28:54
  Katie: And I got on bed because I had been like standing and like moving around.
• 1:28:58
  Katie: I like got on the bed and in position to be able and I was like better catch this baby because, like I'm doing this now.
• 1:29:03
  Katie: And she said something like like I wasn't completely dilated, but I was dilated enough that she was like I can just kind of like help the baby, guide the baby out, we'll be fine.
• 1:29:13
  Katie: But she, the way she said it like when she said, like it's not completely, like, it's not, you're almost there, I was like it's good enough, I have to push, like it's just like.
• 1:29:23
  Katie: Yeah, I was just like this baby has to come out.
• 1:29:24
  Katie: I can't survive this.
• 1:29:25
  Katie: It's like too painful and I don't care if I tear, I just need to get the baby out.
• 1:29:30
  Katie: I don't know, I don't remember what happened exactly or what I said exactly, but I remember feeling like oh no, she can't tell me that I need to.
• 1:29:37
  Katie: Like hang in there, I can't do that, I just can't.
• 1:29:39
  Katie: I'm going to push, whether she wants me to or not.
• 1:29:41
  Katie: Like I'm like you're, you know, like your body just makes you push.
• 1:29:46
  Katie: It's just a weird thing.
• 1:29:48
  Katie: Like you can't, not, so anyway.
• 1:29:49
  Katie: So at that point, and she was like calm down, you're okay, I can help you, we can do this.
• 1:29:55
  Angela: But it was like at that point I don't even think she was ready.
• 1:30:05
  Katie: I was just like I'm pushing.
• 1:30:06
  Katie: I'm sorry, it's just yeah, and it only took one push.
• 1:30:07
  Katie: So was the doctor there was, just like the nurses that were there, uh, no, she was in the room with me.
• 1:30:10
  Katie: She had checked me at that point and I think she was like they were like, you know, taking away the breakaway parts of the bed and like getting everything ready, and I, I mean somebody was, somebody was there, they didn't, she didn't fall on the ground.
• 1:30:21
  Katie: I think it was the doctor and, yeah, like my husband cut the cord and you know all that.
• 1:30:26
  Katie: So, so she was, she was fine, yeah, she was fine, but it felt so different, like I mean, obviously it's very painful, like, so that felt so different.
• 1:30:36
  Katie: But I think, even like my recovery afterwards and stuff like felt so different than with my other deliveries and honestly, like the second time, like with my son, I thought, oh, I recovered so fast, you know, like I was up and able to get to the bathroom pretty quickly and, you know, compared to the first time, but this time it was like I I mean I walked to the recovery room, like the post, the postnatal room.
• 1:31:02
  Katie: I walked there by myself, which I've never done before, I think I don't know if that had even been an option that I had previously, but I know I'd always been in a wheelchair, um, whether it was the option or not.
• 1:31:12
  Katie: And this time they were like, if you want, you can walk.
• 1:31:23
  Katie: And I was like, yeah, I feel like I want.
• 1:31:24
  Katie: So that was just really different.
• 1:31:25
  Katie: And I do think I don't know if it's a hormone cascade was different, but I mean, I know that it is when I mean, when you have a natural labor, like not induced, even, like there's a difference.
• 1:31:30
  Katie: But I think like I felt so much more chipper, I think, afterwards than I had with my other deliveries and I felt really proud of myself, like I I always thought I could do it and I was glad to know that I really could.
• 1:31:46
  Katie: I don't know if I would do it again If we had another baby, I don't know, but I'm glad that I did this time.
• 1:31:53
  Katie: So that was good.
• 1:31:54
  Katie: And I think that not having my doctor, like I was really disappointed about that initially, but I think that the doctor I had I was really disappointed about that initially, but I think that the doctor I had she was a nurse midwife and I think like it did not face her at all that I wanted to do this like without pain meds, and she was just really like she was so calm and like chill about the whole thing, like I think that that probably was just when you I mean, my other doctor wouldn't have been freaking out either, but she probably would have been like Katie, we've done this before, you might just want to get the epidural.
• 1:32:31
  Katie: Like I think she might've said that at the beginning, like knowing my experiences in the past, but I'm really glad that it didn't.
• 1:32:38
  Katie: So like I was telling my mom afterwards I think it was like I don't know, I don't want to say like I think I mean I'm, I'm a Christian.
• 1:32:45
  Katie: So I was like I think that maybe God just wanted me to have the doctor that was the one I needed to be able to do that and she was great.
• 1:32:52
  Angela: So do you want to share who that was?
• 1:33:00
  Katie: Or you know.
• 1:33:01
  Katie: Yeah, it was Erin Hoare.
• 1:33:01
  Angela: Uh, I can't think of the name of the practice, but anyway, um, yeah, the women, and it was like literally, I didn't even know who I was having until I got there that morning so so it was.
• 1:33:08
  Katie: I did not pick her but, um, but she was great and, like I said, I like my mom was here and I remember feeling so tired and so down, like not down but like needing to rest.
• 1:33:18
  Katie: You know, like I just I'm tired and I'm like like not down but like needing to rest.
• 1:33:20
  Katie: You know, like I just I'm tired and I'm like sore and I need to recover.
• 1:33:23
  Katie: Previously and I think this time, like the first couple of weeks, when my mom was still here, I was like I don't really need her here, like, which is a really weird feeling, like I didn't expect to feel that way, but it was like no, I can do all these things.
• 1:33:38
  Katie: Like things like I mean not everything.
• 1:33:39
  Katie: I was glad to have the extra hands and everything, but as far as like needing to like have her help in the night with the baby or anything like I didn't need that.
• 1:33:48
  Katie: I was like I'm fine, I'm okay.
• 1:33:50
  Katie: So my yeah, recovering was pretty good and she gained weight really fast, which helped, you know too.
• 1:33:56
  Katie: So like I didn't have to go take her to the pediatrician or you know like a bunch of times or anything, but she did actually one.
• 1:34:03
  Katie: I guess, one one thing.
• 1:34:05
  Katie: This isn't really like a big deal, but when she was born we were doing skin to skin and they took her temperature and they were like, oh, it's a little low.
• 1:34:12
  Katie: So like she did like get to sit on the warming pad for a little bit, the big thing, yeah, I was a little sad, but like I had her for maybe half an hour before that and my husband like went over there with her so she wasn't by herself and I don't know.
• 1:34:30
  Katie: I think that it felt like it wasn't what I wanted, but like if that's what she needed to get warm enough, then that's what we need to do.
• 1:34:37
  Katie: So it wasn't too bad and I think also just like having I don't want to say like having everything else go the way that I wanted, like it was like okay, you know, I'm going to flex on this one thing, because obviously if your baby is needing that, it could be a.
• 1:34:56
  Katie: If it doesn't resolve with the warmer, then that's, you know, another more significant problem.
• 1:35:02
  Katie: So so, yeah, I don't know it was fine and we weren't there that long.
• 1:35:08
  Katie: I had to really fight for them to let me go the next day, even though, like the doctor, you know, like postpartum, like after the birth, I mean, she was like I don't see any reason why you can't go home tomorrow.
• 1:35:18
  Katie: And um, and then, like the next day, when whoever it was came to talk to me, they were like so you're, you know, we'll get you ready to get go home tomorrow.
• 1:35:28
  Katie: And I was like no, no, I'm going home today.
• 1:35:30
  Katie: The doctor told me that I should be able to go home today, so I want to go home today, and I think it just like confused everyone that that was my hope and so it did work out.
• 1:35:43
  Katie: But I don't know, it's just like it's funny.
• 1:35:45
  Katie: I didn't feel like it's just funny to feel like you kind of have to like fight to advocate for yourself to get to go home, especially with, like you know, with three other kids.
• 1:35:55
  Katie: I'm like I know what I'm doing.
• 1:35:56
  Katie: They're all still alive.
• 1:35:57
  Katie: I, I know that I am not a crazy person.
• 1:35:58
  Katie: I don't think I'm a crazy.
• 1:35:59
  Katie: I know what I'm doing.
• 1:35:59
  Katie: They're all still alive.
• 1:35:59
  Katie: I, I know that I am not a crazy person.
• 1:36:01
  Katie: I don't think I'm a crazy person.
• 1:36:03
  Katie: I think you think I'm normal.
• 1:36:04
  Katie: Um, so I don't know why you have to like really want me to say so.
• 1:36:10
  Katie: I don't know.
• 1:36:11
  Katie: But anyway, but I got to go home and the kids got to come to the hospital, this time to meet the baby.
• 1:36:16
  Katie: They were there for like two minutes.
• 1:36:17
  Katie: I mean it was really really fast.
• 1:36:24
  Katie: They got like their big brother and big sister bracelets, got to see the baby, tell all the nursing staff that they had a new baby sister at the hospital.
• 1:36:31
  Katie: So that was probably the highlight for them was telling everyone that they met, that they were the brothers and sisters of this of our baby here at the hospital.
• 1:36:38
  Katie: So that was really fun.
• 1:36:39
  Angela: And then, yeah, and then they had headed back home so if you were to give advice to someone who's expecting, or even new parents, what would be the biggest thing you'd want to say?
• 1:36:50
  Katie: okay, one thing I will say is that I think I had heard people say this before and I didn't think it was true, but I do think it's true now.
• 1:36:58
  Katie: I heard people say before that like when you have your third, that's the hardest.
• 1:37:02
  Katie: Hardest transition is going from two to three, for whatever reason, but that going from three to four is like no big deal, and I was like there's no way that's real, because having any baby is super hard.
• 1:37:14
  Katie: But it has been true for me that adding number four and I honestly, as I thought about it early on in this pregnancy, I was like, well, I mean, we're gonna.
• 1:37:23
  Katie: I might choose to be happy about this.
• 1:37:25
  Katie: Just, I don't know, maybe this would be a good tip for a new mom If, if someone is going through pregnancy after loss.
• 1:37:38
  Katie: I had been involved with, like I don't know.
• 1:37:40
  Katie: It was like maybe it was one of those pregnancy websites like the bump or something like that.
• 1:37:44
  Katie: They had like those forums.
• 1:37:45
  Katie: They have one for people who experienced loss.
• 1:37:49
  Katie: Personally, I didn't find that super helpful, that particular situation.
• 1:37:54
  Katie: But there's a Facebook group that I got involved with after a friend of mine had she had a like an infant who died, like like they knew before she was born that she wasn't going to make it and she was really involved with this this group on online, and so anyway, I checked it out.
• 1:38:15
  Katie: It was probably after like I might've honestly might've been after all five of our losses.
• 1:38:20
  Katie: I don't remember when I checked it out the first time, but I found that it was really helpful to were willing to do, but also just like I don't know, it just seemed like people were more gentle and like about supporting each other, not just with the loss, but like subsequent pregnancies and whatever, and so like that's been really helpful.
• 1:38:53
  Katie: I'm still involved with that a little bit.
• 1:38:55
  Katie: I don't really go there often anymore, but like they would like transition you through groups.
• 1:38:59
  Katie: So like if you were just had experienced a loss, they would like keep you there, but then, like if you got pregnant again or if you were trying to get pregnant again or whatever, there were other groups you could be in so you could like openly talk about your experience with that.
• 1:39:12
  Katie: And I think it's called hope mommies I think is what it's called and they, like I said, they have a variety of groups depending on where you are in the in your journey post loss, but I found that was really helpful.
• 1:39:25
  Katie: You know, like, if you're struggling or having a hard day, it's easy to post there and have a bunch of moms who totally understand you know, encourage you, like, if, like, if, like me, you are a Christian and you want to have, like, somebody share Bible verses, if they've ever had things that would be encouraging to you that they can share, like they will share.
• 1:39:46
  Katie: Or if you're like I don't know if I should get my teed up because I'm scared it's going to kill my baby.
• 1:39:52
  Katie: Or you know, like whatever, like you could ask those kinds of questions there and in my experience it definitely seemed like people would be willing to share their input without being judgy about it.
• 1:40:02
  Katie: And like everybody knows that the reason you're there is because you, you have this thing in common and so that has was really helpful to me.
• 1:40:10
  Katie: And even just like being able to share my experience to help other moms.
• 1:40:14
  Katie: You know, like people who are like I had this test run and you know, like this is what it what it came back with, and it was like, oh, that's, that's the same thing my baby had.
• 1:40:21
  Katie: So I can tell you everything you want to know, because I already had to learn all this or whatever, like just being able to help, I think really felt was a healing thing for me and being able to say to people like you know, like I had a lot of losses but we have four living children now, you know, and they're all healthy and had no problems in my pregnancies with those, and so, like I think that that does give a lot of hope to hear people talking not just about the hard thing but about, like, the restoration.
• 1:40:54
  Katie: I guess that has come and honestly, in our situation there's nothing that changed.
• 1:40:58
  Katie: You know, like as far as nothing.
• 1:41:01
  Katie: We did nothing medically that was done, you know, it's just God's timing for our family.
• 1:41:06
  Katie: But anyway, like I definitely would give that advice to somebody who has gone through any kind of loss.
• 1:41:12
  Katie: It's like it wasn't comforting to me when people would say, well, just try again or you know, next time it's going to be different.
• 1:41:18
  Katie: It's like you don't know, like how would you know next time it's going to be different?
• 1:41:20
  Katie: It's like you don't know, like, like how would you know?
• 1:41:21
  Katie: Nobody knows that.
• 1:41:22
  Katie: But to have people who, like understand, who can come alongside you as you want them to, you know, was really helpful to me and I think if there's like a local I think there actually is a local grief group here.
• 1:41:35
  Katie: I haven't ever checked it out, but like having something like that I think is really significant, especially because you're like more willing or more probably like prone to being terrified, you know, in your next pregnancy than normal people.
• 1:41:49
  Angela: Well, thank you so much, Katie, for taking the time to chat with me today.
• 1:41:54
  Katie: Definitely.
• 1:41:57
  Angela: And that's the end of another episode of the my Main Birth podcast.
• 1:42:01
  Angela: Thank you for joining me and listening.
• 1:42:04
  Angela: If you're looking to document your birth story or if you're interested in doula support for your upcoming birth, head over to my website, mymainbirthcom and check out my packages.
• 1:42:17
  Angela: I'm a certified professional birth photographer and an experienced doula, and I offer in-person services to families throughout the state of Maine, as well as virtual birth coaching worldwide.
• 1:42:30
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• 1:42:35
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• 1:42:44
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• 1:42:46
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• 1:42:56
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• 1:42:58
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• 1:43:01
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• 1:43:08
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