Latest / Ageless and Timeless Podcast® / Kiran Krishnan, Research Microbiologist

Transcript

Kiran Krishnan, Research Microbiologist · Ageless and Timeless Podcast®

0:10
Good morning everyone. This is Michelle Hughes from Ageless and Timeless. Today I
0:15
have a guest that's going to really knock your socks off till you hear all
0:19
that he has to tell you. And his name is Karan Krishnan and he
0:23
is the microbione expert. You will hear all about that in just a couple
0:29
of minutes. Let me give you just a little bit of background on Karan.
0:33
He spent the last twenty years or the first twenty years I guess,
0:36
so his career in research in R and G as a microbiologist, and then
0:42
realized that he wanted to move over to the corporate world, so he got
0:48
out of the lab and into the firestorm of being around the corporation. So
0:54
he's had quite a career. And actually, if you open the Internet and
0:58
google his name, you will see so many different efforts on his part to
1:04
educate the public. And I really honor you, Karan, for the time
1:08
that you spend with so many people like me and my viewers to basically help
1:17
us to live a healthier life. So welcome to Ageless and Timeless. Thank
1:22
you so much. Thank you for having me, and I appreciate the kind
1:26
introduction, and you know, I do educating people as my biggest passion of
1:32
all the things I do. I discovered that early on that one of the
1:38
few talents I have is that I actually can take complex things that seem to
1:44
you know, occur to me in a different way and explain it to people
1:47
in a way that's meaningful. So yeah, I appreciate this opportunity, right.
1:51
And also, you underrate yourself because you know a lot and you are
1:57
also extremely good at communications. So that's the big plus that you know,
2:04
usually someone coming out of a scientific background is going to get draw difficulty to
2:10
get to the lay person and have them understand the concepts that are so complicated.
2:15
So once again, I just want to give you kudos for being so
2:20
one generous with your time and too so it's just so talented at being able
2:25
to reduce something complicated to something very straightforward. So let's dive in what I'd
2:32
like to do Kiran today. Because you are so prolific on the internet and
2:38
people can find so many podcasts that you for, I'd like to take a
2:42
little bit of a fresh approach. So I'm going to make a big announcement
2:46
here. First of all, most people don't know that you have sold the
2:51
company that you founded co founded called microbiome Labs, and that is one of
2:58
the most incredibly prolific and foremost companies in the microbiome world. And if you
3:06
go to the American Academy of Anti Aging, their booth is right at the
3:10
front and can't miss it. And that's because they deserve that, and they
3:15
are really really good at educating. I mean, there isn't a day that
3:19
goes by that I don't get a webinar opportunity to get on with microbiome Labs
3:25
and their products which I've now thanks to Karan, started to use and I'm
3:31
going to talk a little bit about that later today. But those products are
3:36
some of the very best that are available today on for helping you with improving
3:42
that microbiome. So the big announcement is that you have sold the company and
3:47
you have moved on. You are now doing at least seven other investments as
3:53
well as some other things in your family office. So that's going to be
3:58
exciting. So what I'd like to do is I'd like to split the time
4:01
we have today our fifty minutes, and I'm going to ask you for the
4:05
first half to talk about some of the traditional subjects you've covered so frequently so
4:12
people get the real benefit of your background. And then I'd like to move
4:16
over to the halfway mark, move over to the new companies and some of
4:20
the exciting things that you're doing now that now most people are not going to
4:25
be aware of until today. Is that okay with you? Sounds perfect?
4:30
Thank you? Okay, good. Well let's start by let me first ask
4:33
you a personal question. So, how do you feel that you're unique in
4:39
the world that you play in. Yeah, you know, there's a lot
4:44
of brilliant and talented people in the world that we both play in and including
4:48
if you look at the research world and so on. I think one of
4:51
my unique capabilities is what I call bridging the translational gap. So, if
4:58
you look at science, right, science happens in a couple different realms.
5:00
One is the academic realm, which is very scientific, very rigorous, and
5:06
the science there is really in the pursuit of more science. Most of the
5:12
research, most of the research that's done in academics is done for the sake
5:15
of completing a hypothesis that then leads to the next hypothesis, and so on.
5:21
And that's great, right, because a lot of amazing things come out
5:25
of universities and research institutes that advance our knowledge of the world around us.
5:30
The problem with it is rarely do those discoveries ever make it to a place
5:35
where it impacts people, right, because there's a translational gap. There's a
5:41
gap between the really hardcore, rigorous research that's happening and then the things that
5:46
actually people have access to, things like products and services and technology and so
5:50
on. And so that gap between the two is called a translational gap.
5:56
The reason it's called translational is there's a translational problem of translating complex research findings
6:02
into usable products, services and so on, right, or even just knowledge,
6:09
like even just understanding some of the things that are being discovered, and
6:12
then you adjust your life and lifestyle to that level. Right. And so
6:16
that translational gap is where I play really well, I feel because I understand
6:21
the science at that rigorous level, but I also know how to translate it
6:26
not only to people so they understand it, but also to technologies and products
6:30
and actually get the commercial side of it done. Because one of the biggest
6:34
issues with people who are really good at the science is they're really bad at
6:40
business and they're really bad at people, right, And so if you can
6:44
work with people, if you can if you can think from a business perspective,
6:47
and you understand and can do the science, then it allows you to
6:50
bridge that translational gap. So to me, that's where I fit. And
6:54
that's what you were saying earlier. And so I think that moved from the
6:57
lab to the corporate world was probably one of the biggest events and change changes
7:01
in your life. Would you say that that was a dramatic switch and that
7:06
that has aided and embedded your abilities to be translational? Yeah, and absolutely,
7:15
Even more so than the corporate world is really the entrepreneurial world. Right.
7:17
So the first several companies I worked for were my own companies that I
7:21
had started, and that's a whole other ballgame, right. And then subsequently
7:28
I've been able to sell some of those companies, including microbime Labs, two
7:30
large corporations, and then work within those corporations for a short period of time
7:35
two three years, And that's a whole other quagmire to navigate, you know,
7:40
the corporate world versus entrepreneurial those are very distinct business acumens, and fortunately
7:47
I've had the experience of dealing with both all the while though keeping the sites
7:51
in the driver's seat and keeping the focus around efficaciousness, safety, all of
7:58
that to bring people real sos, right, and then the education goes along
8:03
with that, because to me, one of the most powerful impacts you can
8:07
have on society and you know, the people around you even is empowering them
8:13
with knowledge so that they have the ability to help themselves. Right, That's
8:18
the best thing you can do. And that is why. And I think
8:22
I sort of said it, but maybe not as scinctly as you. That
8:26
is why it's so special. And we're privileged to have you here because we
8:31
know from our I know and my viewers will soon know that your ability to
8:39
take those you know, the complex into the simple, that's one thing.
8:41
The second thing is the depth of your knowledge in an area that is so
8:46
complicated for so many people and is full of potholes and fall starts and dead
8:52
ends and so forth. So let's just pretend we're writing a book together called
8:56
the Microbiome for Dummies, which, as we know, has become the kind
9:01
of by what do you call it? Password for anything? It's a field
9:07
of complexity that is going to be made simple, so Stardian with maybe defining
9:16
some terms. Let's first start with what is the microbiome? And it sounds
9:20
very simplistic to you, but I think I want my viewers to start from
9:24
the beginning and then grow with you today in the minutes that we have for
9:28
you to explain. So microbiome for dummies, go ahead, Yeah, yeah,
9:33
absolutely, So it is critically important that people understand what the microbiome is,
9:39
right, and then we'll get into how it impacts you as well.
9:41
So the microbiome is basically defined as the totality of organisms. So those are
9:46
all the viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, all kinds of microorganisms and
9:52
their genetic elements. And I'll emphasize why that's important in relation to the hosts.
9:58
And we are, of course the Now what has been discovered, and
10:03
it's very clear now without a shadow of a doubt, is that virtually everywhere
10:07
in our body we are loaded with microbes, right, far more than we
10:11
ever thought. Right, we knew that there were bacteria and viruses and all
10:15
that around. We knew we had a bunch in our gut because you could
10:18
sample some of them through stool. But what we didn't realize is that we
10:22
were actually, oh, we are actually more microbe than we are human.
10:28
Right, there are more microbial cells in our structure than there are human cells.
10:31
And then the genetic part, that's where it really becomes important, because
10:35
we have far more microbial genetics in our system than we have human genetics.
10:41
Right, So to put it in an understandable manner for people, right,
10:45
So, there was a project called the Human Genome Project that many people will
10:48
remember. Right. The whole idea was like, we need to sequence the
10:52
entire human genome, figure out what all the genes do. And the idea
10:56
there was that, you know, every disease has a genetic element to it,
11:00
and so there's a heart disease gene, there's a diabetes gene, there's
11:03
an Alzheimer's gene, and so we're going to go after each of those genes
11:07
with targeted therapies to deal with those diseases. Right. So, the idea
11:11
was that humans have this very advanced genome. We have tons and tons of
11:16
genes. In fact, the estimates were around four or five hundred thousand genes
11:20
is what they estimated. The human needs to have for complexity. And then
11:26
when they sequence the entire human genome. Finally, this took about a decade
11:28
worth of work. What they found was that we as humans have about twenty
11:33
two thousand genes, not three four hundred thousand, twenty two thousand. Right
11:39
now, that may still sound like a lot of you're not familiar with genomics,
11:43
but an earthworm has thirty thousand genes, So we're less sophisticated than an
11:48
earthworm is from a genetic perspective. So then a big question arose, like
11:52
how is it that we function at such a high level. We don't have
11:56
enough genes to code for the proteins that we need in order to function and
12:01
act as a human. And so that's what actually was one of the impetuses
12:05
that kicked off the Human microbiome project, because that was a hypothesis that,
12:09
hey, maybe the microbes that live within our system contain more genetic material that
12:16
we can actually utilize. So then they sequence the massive amount of human sorry
12:22
microbial DNA in our system and they found that we have over two and a
12:26
half million microbial genes, right, twenty two thousand human genes, two and
12:33
a half million microbial genes in our system, and we use a lot of
12:37
those microbial genes for day to day function. So that is what allows us
12:41
to be human. Right if it was just up to our genes, we
12:46
would barely function, We would certainly not be alive. We need the microbial
12:52
genes. And so if you don't have the right microbes, or you have
12:56
the wrong ones in too high of a proportion, or you're missing certain ones,
13:03
certain ones are too low, you don't have their genetic capabilities, you
13:07
don't have their functionality. Thereby, you don't function the way you're supposed to,
13:11
and that can lead to disease. European Wellness, founded by the iconic
13:16
and widely published professor doctor Michael Chan, is the world leader in stem cell
13:22
and peptide therapy, with twenty six medical and esthetics BA locations primarily in Europe
13:28
and Asia. Their website www dot Europeanwellness dot com details the wide range of
13:35
wellness products that can be ordered using the age's code for a ten percent discount.
13:41
They will also offer our viewers discounts on medical and cosmetic services and products
13:46
if they choose to visit the clinics. I have firsthand experience using their wide
13:50
range of science based stem cell and peptide products and are now a loyal customer.
13:56
Go to their website www. European Wellness dot com for more information about
14:03
this exciting company. And so that's where it's coming down to. So if
14:09
you take the term epigenetics, which is you know your lifestyle and how it
14:13
affects your genes, how does that play into the ability to repair the microbiome
14:18
from a genetics standpoint? Yeah, so the epigenetics is really a fascinating area.
14:24
Now when you bring in the microbiome, right, So normally epigenetics is,
14:30
well, okay, what can you do to turn on and off genes?
14:33
Right? Because we have genes, but it doesn't mean that they're necessarily
14:37
on or off. We're not necessarily using them. There are different triggers to
14:41
turn on and off genes. So there's been the study of like, okay,
14:43
how do we actually effectuate the right genes and not turn on the bad
14:48
genes? Right? So, then when you bring in the microbiome and you
14:52
go, well, there's actually two and a half million times more microbiome DNA
14:56
than human DNA. What about the epigenetic of that, right, how do
15:01
you affect those genes in terms of turning on and off. And as it
15:05
turns out, that's an ecosystem. And how you affect those genes turning on
15:09
and off is what you put into your body, on your body and how
15:13
you surround yourself. Right, So this is so those environmental factors, right,
15:18
And this is so important what you're talking about, because many people think,
15:20
oh, these are my genes, I can't change them, and there's
15:22
nothing I can do. I was born with this. This my thanks thanks
15:26
to my parents or grandparents. And so now what you're saying, what you
15:31
know, the people in the DNA company, like Kashif Khan, who is
15:35
a guest here on my podcast. You know what he was saying is this
15:37
functional genetics is really the epigenetics is really what you are doing in the choices
15:43
you make, which you know, if you're if you go back to the
15:48
you know, the assumption that you're eighty percent of your immune system is in
15:52
your gut, then this is a huge, huge subject. No wonder.
15:56
You can't open an article in a newspaper without seeing microbion over and over again
16:02
these days, because people are now becoming aware of exactly what you're saying that
16:07
we do have do have control over these this genetic factor and the regular human
16:15
factor. What you've divided it into the two pieces. So what Okay,
16:19
let me jump for a moment, and what are the choices that people can
16:23
make that are going to take them from a microbione that has been impaired by
16:30
lifestyle and choices, a microbiome that what you, as a scientist would call
16:36
the perfect microbiome. How do you go from A to B with your ability
16:41
to make wise choices? Is the factor that's going to make the delta between
16:45
the two? Yeah, And that's a very important question, and the fact
16:49
that the solutions to that are actually relatively simple and for the most part,
16:53
don't cost anything, which is great. Right. But before I answer that
16:57
question, I want to give people a couple of examples so that it can
17:02
really ingrain in them the impact that the microbiome has. Right. So,
17:04
one of the things that I always say is, like my health goal is
17:10
and always has been, to have resilience. Right. I don't want to
17:15
be healthy, perfectly healthy by making perfect choices. Right. Life doesn't revolve
17:21
around perfect choices. Right. I want to have eighty twenty rule. I
17:23
want to make twenty percent bad decisions and still know I'm fine, right,
17:27
And that resilience is a critical part of the human existence. Right. Part
17:33
of why we've moved up the evolutionary ladder as a species is because we're extremely
17:38
resilient. We have adaptability to different environments. Right. We live in every
17:42
corner of the earth. If you took a lion and put them in by
17:47
the North Pole, the lion would be dead before you know it. Right.
17:49
If you took a polar bear and put them in the savannah of Africa,
17:52
they'd be dead before you know it. They're not adapted to those regions.
17:55
And yet humans can live in all these places. So to give people
18:00
a couple of examples of that, So just look at things like your immune
18:03
health. You mentioned the immune system is in the gut, right, eighty
18:06
percent of the immune tissues basically in the gut. There's a very intimate relationship
18:10
between your immune system and your microbiome, whereby your microbiome helps educate and dictate
18:17
what your immune system responds to. So if you have a dysfunctional relationship between
18:22
your immune system and your microbiome, not only will your immune system fail to
18:27
attack the things it should like a new virus or bacteria or something that's coming
18:32
in whereby you get sick. And then the other problem is it over attacks
18:37
things that it shouldn't, right, like things like food particles and environmental particles.
18:41
Then you end up with food sensitivities, allergies, asthma, autoimmune conditions.
18:45
It's even attacking your own body. Right. So that's one example that's
18:49
a common issue that a lot of people face is these immune dysfunctions. That's
18:53
a relationship between your microbiome and your immune system, and a loss of resilience
18:59
means that your immune system doesn't function the same metabolic system. Right. Weight
19:03
gain and weight maintenance. People struggle with weight loss, people struggle when maintaining
19:08
a healthy weight. People struggle with fat loss and dealing with cravings and all
19:11
that. All of that is impacted by your microbiome. And if your microbiome
19:17
is altered, you're going to gain weight. If your microbiomes altered, it
19:19
becomes very hard to lose weight, right, and you deal with cravings and
19:23
all that. Mood is another one. There's something called the gut brain axis.
19:26
Right, if your microbiome is altered and not in good shape, your
19:32
propensity to get anxiety and depression is way higher, right, and that anxiety
19:37
and depression then increases your risk for long term eurological damage which results in dementia,
19:42
Alzheimer's and so on. So, just if you think about immune dysfunction,
19:45
metabolic dysfunction, and mood disorders, right, anxiety, depression, dementia,
19:52
obesity, diabetes, autoimmune conditions, allergies, all of those things are
19:57
tied to a dis functional microbiome. Right, So this is where people end
20:03
up having a problem. I mean interpid Also hormonal is absolutely yeah. Your
20:10
microbiome plays a very important role in regulating the hormone balance in your body.
20:14
Right, So this goes back to the idea that we don't have enough genetic
20:18
capability of our own to do all the functions we need, so your body
20:22
gets a tremendous amount of assists from the microbiome. So take estrogen for example,
20:27
right, Well, just a simple thing like estrogen, where your body
20:32
produces the estrogen, it utilizes it, but then in order to prevent estrogen
20:37
from overloading, where you end up with estrogen dominance, which is a problematic
20:41
condition that most women in that most hormonal dysfunctional women face. What your body
20:47
needs to do is get rid of the estrogen. Right. So what it
20:48
does is it sends it to the liver where the liver will conjugate it,
20:53
meaning it covers it so your body doesn't recognize it again, and then it
20:57
dumps it back into the gut for microbes to metabolize it and get rid of
21:02
it. Right now, if your gut is dysfunctional, what tends to happen
21:06
is not only do microbes not metabolize that estrogen, there are some dysfunctional microbiomes
21:11
microbes that can actually remove the disguise that your liver has put on estrogen,
21:15
allowing it to get reabsorbed. Right. So, you can have a microbiome
21:19
that's supporting your system and working for you, and you can absolutely have a
21:25
microbiome that's not only not supporting your system but actually working against you. Right.
21:30
And that's where this is the most important thing that people need to understand
21:33
about the microbiome, right, is that your relationship with your microbiome is on
21:37
a spectrum. On one end of the spectrum, it's the most protective thing
21:42
that you have in your system. It protects all your organ systems, supports
21:47
them conducts all these metabolic and biochemical functions that your body needs, and it
21:51
provides you resilience. Right. And on the other end, not only is
21:55
it not doing any of that, but it's actually driving disease. The microbe
22:00
becomes the biggest driver of your disease. And we can describe how that happens.
22:03
But that is the spectrum that people need to understand of their relationship between
22:07
them and their microbial ecosystem. So you have to look at yourself and go,
22:11
what all am I dealing with? Right? How many chronic conditions am
22:15
I dealing with? Am I sleeping? Okay? Is my mood dysfunction on?
22:18
Am I dealing with weight? Skin? All of these things. That
22:22
means the more of those conditions you have, the farther to the right.
22:25
Your relationship is where your microbiome is actually working against you, right, So
22:30
then how do you shift it the other way? Which is your original question?
22:33
So here are the simplest things you can do. Number one is to
22:38
reduce exposure to things that we know kill microbes in your system. Right,
22:45
So these are going to be things like processed foods. Heavily processed foods tend
22:49
to have antimicrobials, preservatives in it. All of these things have an antimicrobial
22:56
effect on your gut. Right, So you're consuming these packaged processes foods,
23:00
you're sending in antimicrobials into your system that are going to kill off the beneficial
23:06
bacteria in that same vein. If you're consuming produce and all that that's not
23:10
organic that has been sprayed and laced with pesticides and herbicides, those chemicals also
23:15
going in will have a negative effect on your gut microbiome, right, So
23:19
the first thing is try to reduce or avoid those as much as possible so
23:23
you're not exposing your microbiome to things that will harm it. Number two is
23:29
the opposite end of that, which is feeding the microbiome in a very positive
23:33
way. Now, the way the microbiome has been designed over the course of
23:37
evolution is to eat a wide, a very wide variety of food. Right.
23:42
We are omnivorous, and there's all this debate all over the internet,
23:47
and you'll see people who are paleo and people who are carnivore, and people
23:49
who are vegan and all that stuff. Through the course of human evolution,
23:53
we did not have the luxury of being that way. Right, our ancestors
23:57
did not go well, I want to be vegan because they didn't have a
24:02
choice. Right, they had to eat what was available to them. And
24:04
so humans evolved as omnivores and we eat a huge variety of things. And
24:11
this also is a key thing that distinguishes us from other animals in the animal
24:15
kingdom. There aren't a lot of animals species that are omnivores in the animal
24:21
kingdom. Right, You take a lion, for example, I use the
24:25
lion example earlier. Take a lion on lion is basically an obligate carnivore,
24:29
which means it has to eat meat. Right, And if there's wilderbe shortage
24:33
because of a drought and there's not enough meat to go around, the lion
24:37
can't go and dig for roots and tubers and eat berries off the trees and
24:41
all that. The lion will essentially starve to death. Right. The same
24:45
thing with the wilderbeest, which is an obligate herbivore. If there's a drought,
24:48
there's no plants, the wilderbees can't just start trying to go after squirrels
24:52
and rabbits and try to eat those. The wilderbeest is going to die,
24:56
and so but the human in that condition, if the there's no meat to
25:00
eat, if there's no plants to eat, it'll start digging for roots and
25:03
tubers. The humans can pick berries, can eat nuts, can eat insects,
25:07
We can eat all kinds of stuff, and so our herbivore are sorry.
25:11
Our omnivorous diet is what fed this diversity of microbiome that we have in
25:18
our gut. We have a very diverse microbiome in our gut, especially compared
25:22
to a lot of other animal species out there. And so feeding your microbiome
25:26
a diverse diet, right, meats, vegetables, seeds, nuts, roots,
25:32
tubers, fruits, berries, all of those things. These are all
25:36
really important to get a nice diversity of food. And the more divers your
25:40
diet is, the more diverse your microbiome is. Right, And I couldn't
25:44
I couldn't help. I can't help, but to say, to stop for
25:47
a moment, to say, unfortunately, the quality of our food and agriculture
25:55
thanks to the industrial revolution, has dramatically changed what we what we do and
26:00
jest. And so if you are going to eat meat, you know,
26:03
I'm sure you would say this, make sure that it's not you know,
26:07
laced with hormones and all the bad feed that comes from being in a in
26:14
a stall. To just that power up. Let's say, if it's a
26:18
couch so grasstad is, you know, the only way if you're going to
26:23
eat meat, that's the only meat. You should eat, only wildcot fish,
26:29
so it's in the coldest from the coldest of waters. I mean,
26:32
these are all the basic tenets that people need to know because it is a
26:36
very complicated universe and we are surrounded by toxin, so we you know,
26:41
we have to make choices that are even more finite than what our ancestors made.
26:48
And when they would just hunter gatherers and they could just take, you
26:49
know, eat whatever they found, and it was safe that you didn't have
26:52
to have organic because there wasn't anything called glyphosphate, right, there was no
27:00
non organic, right that that didn't exist. Yeah, everything was organic,
27:03
right, Karan, You know, I just I didn't realize is what happened.
27:10
But I should have. But they already signaled me the halfway mark.
27:12
So I think what we'll do is we'll change our plan because this is so
27:17
fascinating and so important and I don't want to interrupt you, so I'm going
27:21
to divide our time into two podcasts. So we'll have this one talking about
27:26
the basics of microbiome for dummy, so to spread, and then back very
27:32
quickly as soon as I can schedule you in and you're available to do the
27:37
new companies that you're investing in with I'm really fascinated by and I want my
27:41
viewers to know what's coming down the pike with all your hard work and efforts.
27:47
So is that all right with you if we change yes, yeah,
27:49
yeah, No, I think this is very important information to share and give
27:53
people basic foundational understanding. So yes, we absolutely have to cover this,
27:57
and I'm more than happy to come back on and talk the next step.
28:00
So yeah, absolutely. So there are some terms that I want to make
28:06
sure. I know you were in the middle of the thought, so I
28:07
don't want to take that, But why don't you finish that thought and then
28:11
let me ask you a couple of questions? Yeah, yeah, So it's
28:15
just it's really about just giving people a few things that they can wrap their
28:18
head around and do. Right. So the first step was reduce the exposure
28:22
to things that we know are harmful. Like you said, if you're eating
28:25
foods, even meats and vegetables and all that, which are seemingly healthy,
28:29
but if you're getting the vegetables that are covered in pesticides, it can have
28:33
a significant downside to it. If you're getting meat that's heavily processed with hormones
28:38
and antibiotics and all that, because of course they use antibiotics to fatten up
28:41
the cows and the pigs, right, So they use so many eighty ninety
28:45
different antibiotics in the animal feed area, and most of those are not even
28:51
intested on humans. So it's a significant issue. So you want to choose
28:56
clean, slow sources of food, right. One of the things I love
29:02
is in most areas that I've seen, at least metropolitan Ish areas, there
29:07
are a lot of farmers, markets and co ops and things that you can
29:10
belong to where you're getting some of this stuff directly from the farms, right.
29:14
And these aren't the factory farms. These are local farmers that are producing
29:18
things in the more traditional way. So as much as you can make those
29:22
choices, please do so what I don't want people to do though, and
29:26
I see this all the time. I don't want people to get overwhelmed by
29:30
that and not do anything right, because what can happen is they go,
29:33
oh my god, I don't know what to choose. I don't know how
29:37
to choose the right stuff. I don't and so then they just keep doing
29:40
what they're doing. Baby step into it. Right. If you're going to,
29:44
you know, eat beef, for example, if that's part of your
29:47
normal diet, great, make an effort to find the cleanest version of beef
29:51
that you can in your area, right, and just focus on that.
29:55
If you eat two or three producers, try to look for organic versions of
29:59
those produces, right, and maybe as the weather gets better in parts of
30:02
the country, go to the farmer's markets and see if they have organic,
30:06
natural sources of those foods. So baby step it. Every little change that
30:11
you make adds up. And that's part of the thing about the microbiome is
30:15
that it's a very dynamic, complex ecosystem. So does it require an overnight
30:21
shift of all your behaviors and all that. Every little change you make adds
30:26
up and will be impactful. Right, So don't get stifled by how difficult
30:30
some of this can be. Just do one thing at a time. Right.
30:33
So the first part reduce the exposure of things that we no harm the
30:37
microbiome. The second part is increasing the diversity of your diet. One of
30:41
the simplest things I tell people to do is try to add in one new
30:45
food a week. Right, So take one new fruit, one new vegetable,
30:48
root, tuber, meat, whatever it is that you don't normally eat.
30:52
And I like going to the ethnic grocery stores by my house. There's
30:55
an Asian market, a Mediterranean market, a Middle Eastern market, and they
30:59
have roots and tubers and fruits and vegetables and all that we don't have it,
31:03
you know, our regular whole foods and places like that. And so
31:07
I bring in and add one of those a week, you know, and
31:10
as you do that, you'll start really increasing the diversity of your diet.
31:12
Right. So that's a very important thing. Again, diversity of your diet
31:17
means diversity of the microbiome. And hands down the most important feature, which
31:22
you asked earlier, the most important feature of a healthy gut microbiome is having
31:27
high diversity. Right. Having high diversity means you have resilience and you've got
31:33
a microbiome that protects it. Now there's a whole category of bacteria in your
31:37
large bowl that are anaerobic, which means they cannot survive in oxygen. They
31:42
don't utilize a lot of other nutrients, like, they don't utilize proteins well,
31:47
they don't utilize fats well, what they really want is fiber. Fiber
31:52
is so critically important. And the thing is, many of these organisms,
31:57
these specialized organisms that live basically just in the human large intestine. You don't
32:02
really find them anywhere else in the world. These organisms, many of them,
32:07
are regarded as keystone species, which means that unless their numbers are good
32:14
levels, that the rest of the microbiome is going to suffer. And these
32:19
organisms are inversely correlated with numerous chronic diseases. What does inversely correlated mean?
32:24
That means that the higher those those organisms are, the lower your risk of
32:30
disease. The lower they are, the higher risk of disease. Right,
32:34
And these are like the most common chronic conditions. For example, take an
32:38
organism like Fikilium bacteria prosenit si. I have to remember how to say it.
32:45
Kum Bacteria prosenit si is a very important keystone species that is inversely correlated
32:51
with all kinds of inflammatory conditions in the gut right, so chrones, colitis,
32:57
all sort of all sort of colidis, micro light is, even things
33:00
like colorectal cancer. It can be protective against. Think acromansium usinophila. It's
33:07
inversely correlated with metabolic disease, so diabetes, obesity, you know, polycystic
33:15
ovarian syndrome, heart disease, blood pressure, all of these things are protected
33:20
against if you have adequate levels of achromancium. So these important keystone species require
33:27
fiber. In fact, one of the largest studies on nutrition, Meta Analysis
33:31
Study, which is a study of lots of different studies, have looked at
33:37
nearly a million subjects right over decades, and what they found was fiber was
33:45
one of the best predictors of longevity and resilience to chronic disease than almost any
33:51
other nutrient in your diet. Okay, so tell us what some of the
33:54
fibers are that people can just go out and buy, because obviously fibers a
34:00
big category, but they say you're not so good for you, particularly if
34:05
they have gluten. So can you go through and just get a list of
34:08
the best fibers to go out and start adding to our diet. Yeah,
34:14
so to make it a very easy lift, one of the simplest ones you
34:17
can do is just sillium husk. Right, there's nothing sexy about it.
34:22
It's just roughage, but it's got a lot of studies behind it. You
34:25
take, you know, depending on the size of the scoop, but I
34:29
do maybe ten to fifteen grams of it a day as just part of my
34:35
fiber intake on a daily basis. So that's a simple way to just start
34:38
adding in a few grams a day into your diet. Right. It comes
34:42
in a low cost tub. Try to get an organic, clean version from
34:46
a brand that you like and trust, But there's lots of supplement brands out
34:50
there that have it. On top of that, I love things like potato,
34:53
like resistant potato starch, right, so like Bob's Redmill used to make
34:58
it. Now there's a lot of othermpanies that make it so resistant starch.
35:01
Resistant starch is a form of carbohydrate that we cannot digest that purely feeds these
35:08
beneficial microbes in the system, right and so and so those are two ways
35:14
of supplementing with fiber because the resistant starch comes into powder as well, right,
35:19
So you just do a fiber powder with resistant stars and a soluble fiber
35:22
powder. Then you get try to get as much of your additional fiber from
35:27
your diet. Right, So if you google high fiber foods and just consume
35:31
those are things like plantains and you know, lots of vegetables, right,
35:36
there's lots of vegetables with good fiber. Broccoli, carrots, even mangos in
35:40
terms of fruits to so many fruits and vegetables that have high fiber. So
35:45
try to get My goal has been and there's some really good research on this
35:50
is a minimum of around forty grams of fiber per day. Wow, around
35:55
forty yeah, as that doesn't matter whether you're a man or woman. It
36:00
just forty grams regardless of regardless, and the more you get actually the better
36:05
because one of the things that this meta analysis study that I mentioned that was
36:08
that was almost a million subjects. What they showed is that for every ten
36:15
grams of fiber that you add to your daily diet, it can reduce your
36:20
mortality by ten percent. Wow, how powerful it is. Right, But
36:24
what about flat seeds, hemp seeds, Oh yeah, absolutely, yep,
36:30
gear seeds and all that, yep. And now I'm taking Fennygreek seeds that
36:36
I make into a bit of a powder. But that's another one that's supposed
36:40
to be very protective, right, So it those ones you can put in
36:45
your you know, on your smoothie or in your smoothie. They're so easy
36:50
to add to the diet. And the flat seeds you need to know is
36:54
always grind them, buy them, buy them as a seed, because if
36:59
you buy powder, it's already lost a lot of its efficacy. So buy
37:04
and then put them. I put mine in a coffee grinder. I don't
37:08
drink coffee, so I just put it in. That's my use of my
37:12
coffee grinder that it does do the job. Yeah, the gia and the
37:17
and the hemp you can just buy as regular and put it right on.
37:21
You don't have to do anything to it, yep. Absolutely. And then
37:23
of course nuts, a good variety of nuts. Right. So the way
37:27
I try to think about my fiber each day is I try to get around
37:31
fifteen grams or so through supplement form, right, which means that I'm at
37:37
least guaranteeing that much. And then just a very rough idea around another twenty
37:43
five thirty grams through food, right, which is a combination of fruits,
37:46
vegetables, seeds like you mentioned nuts. With every meal, I want to
37:52
have some amount of fiber on there, right, And it's very easy for
37:54
you to google and look at how many grams of fiber in you know,
37:59
the xm of broccoli, how many grams of fiber and x amount of this,
38:01
x amount of that. All that information's out there. So if you
38:05
think about the foods you like and the things you don't mind eating that are
38:08
very sustainable for you, then just look at what the fiber content is kind
38:14
of decide the volume of the food you will eat to reach that forty plus
38:16
grams. Now, the higher you can get with fiber, the better,
38:20
because these studies indicate that the more fiber you eat, the more resilient you
38:23
are against chronic disease. And it's one of the most important things. Now
38:28
why is that Again, it's because the fiber largely feeds those beneficial bacteria in
38:34
your gut that do all of these amazing things to provide you resilience against disease,
38:38
right, and those microbes really need the fiber from these variety of sources.
38:44
So that's a very very important thing. So that's just you know,
38:47
diversity of your diet, increasing the types of foods you eat, but on
38:52
top of that, making sure you're getting adequate fiber each day. Right,
38:57
If you do those things, if you reduce the things that we know are
39:00
harmful to the microbiome, if you increase the diversity of your diet, if
39:04
you increase your fiber intake. And then the last thing is getting outside into
39:08
nature. Right. Not only is that therapeutic in many ways, like if
39:13
you go out in the morning and get direct sunlight into your eyes or of
39:16
course don't stare at the sun, but you want sunlight into your eyes and
39:20
you want some of it hitting your skin. You want to be outside in
39:23
nature moving, you want to walk, you want to do you know whatever,
39:27
go on a hike. That that makes you feel good. One of
39:30
the other things all that does is it actually exposes you to beneficial microbes in
39:35
the environment, and that exposure actually enhances your microbiome and your immune system,
39:40
and so it can have a very curative effect on your entire system. Right.
39:45
So, and and for many people that can be a stress management tool
39:49
as well, because that the final part of this is that stress management component.
39:54
Right, Stress as a devastating effect on your microbiome, and of course
40:00
stress then increases inflammation throughout your body in a very significant way as well.
40:04
Right, So managing the stress becomes really important, and in many ways,
40:07
getting outside is a really great way of managing your stress as well. And
40:13
I think the well, it's going to seem kind of overwhelming to people,
40:17
but alcohol and sugar very very dangerous ingredients to have in your diet. So
40:28
why don't you talk about that for a moment. Yeah, you know,
40:31
the thing is, and this is part of the resilience side of it,
40:35
right because to me, I know, I'm going to be going out with
40:37
friends from time to time and we'll be going to events, and you're going
40:40
to be eating some sugar, You're going to be having some drinks. The
40:44
thing is, you have to have a system that can handle it because it
40:46
is damaging. Right. So alcohol is toxogenic to your system in so many
40:51
different ways. Right. Of course it can harm your microbiome, which it
40:54
does, so it reduces your microbiome, but of course it taxes your liver
40:59
very signific and there's a very important relationship between your microbiome and your liver.
41:05
As well. Now, alcohol is also metabolized into these byproducts that are very
41:08
toxogenic your brain, your hormone system, your metabolic system, your blood blood
41:14
sugar control systems, so all of that has a huge impact. And then
41:17
of course alcohol dramatically impacts your sleep, right, which we know sleep is
41:22
one of the most important things you can do too, because you need to
41:25
recover every night from the day's worth of stresses that your body went through.
41:30
And I don't just mean mood like stresses, I mean actual biochemical, physical
41:34
stresses. Your body goes through just a function, right, and you need
41:38
to sleep, and you need to activate genes that are housekeeping genes that fix
41:44
a lot of cellular systems and repair broken DNA and get rid of proteins that
41:47
shouldn't be there. All of that stuff, All of that autophagy or mitophagy
41:52
happens at night when you're sleeping, right, and so adequate sleep becomes necessary.
41:58
But alcohol dramatically just axious sleep. I know this very well because I
42:01
know, like you know, I wear my or ring, right, so
42:05
I'm monitoring my sleep all the time. And if I'm at a thing where
42:07
I know I'm having a couple of drinks at dinner. Right, it doesn't
42:10
have it doesn't take much. I will absolutely see it on my r data
42:15
the next morning, wake up. Right, even if the duration of sleep
42:19
I get is the same, even if I'm still getting seven eight hours,
42:22
the quality is dramatically lower. My HRV, which is heart rate variabilities dramatically
42:28
lower. My resting heart rate is ten to fifteen bats higher. My body
42:31
temperature tends to be higher. Right, All these things are altered, And
42:36
so you might be able to if you're if you're resilient, you can do
42:37
that once in a while and be okay. But if you're not resilient and
42:42
you're you're trying to become resilient, that can be very taxing on your system
42:45
and very harmful. Right. I was humored by something you said on one
42:50
of your podcasts where you said, you know, it used to be stressed
42:52
with something monumental. Now stress could be someone sending you a bad text or
42:57
a tweet. Yeah, and that drive you obviously, it's you know,
43:01
the gut brain access. So you know you are being affected in your microbiome
43:07
if you are what you just said, you know, feeling the stress of
43:10
something that's as minor as a bad tweet. Yeah, absolutely, you know
43:15
so. And when you think about that, so stress leads to this physiological
43:20
response called the fight or flight system, right, And the reason that exists
43:23
is because that was a very critical part of our survival. If you,
43:28
if you somehow eliminate the flight or fight response, you wouldn't survive because you
43:32
wouldn't be cognizant of danger around you. Right. They've actually done this with
43:37
animals. There are animal studies where they can cut the vagus nerve, which
43:42
is the gut brain communicator. And mice are you know, You put a
43:45
mouse in a in a bin with a snake and the mouse will just walk
43:50
up to the snake and give it a little lick on the nose, right,
43:52
because it has no fear. It has no sense of danger anymore.
43:55
Right, So our fight of flight system is really important to keep us surviving,
44:00
which means that it's a very drastic system because its use was always for
44:06
survival for the most part. Right. But nowadays our body hasn't yet adapted
44:10
to changing the intensity, if you will, of the biochemical response, even
44:16
though the trigger is far less monumental. Right, the trigger used to be
44:21
a potential predator following you that might eat you, versus now someone cuts you
44:25
off in traffic, Right, both of those aren't equivalent things, and yet
44:30
biochemically your body responsor it in a very similar way, which is a very
44:36
inflammatory way, right, and it's very damaging to the system. But it's
44:40
okay if it's a life or death situation because you need to survive that thing
44:45
and then you recover. But if you're getting that same biochemical response from emails
44:50
and conversations with people and the drive to work and just thinking about bills and
44:53
all that stuff, right, you're taxing your system with survival type of response
45:00
every single day, which is absolutely difficult to deal with and will lead to
45:04
chronic dysfunction. Right, so stress management becomes critical. Correct. So how
45:09
does one know when a microbiome is perfect? Yeah? So's it's hard to
45:15
know that that there is such a thing as a perfect microbiome in the modern
45:20
world. And the reason I say that is because we just have so many
45:22
things around us that constantly harm our microbiome. Right, all the chemicals that
45:29
we are exposed to without our knowledge, right, the stresses, the things
45:36
that are in our rooms and homes and off gasing, and you know round
45:40
up in our water supply, all of these things that we just inadvertently get
45:45
exposed to that harms of microbiome. I think what we can do is push
45:51
towards a very strong and resilient microbiome. I don't know if it'll be perfect,
45:55
but it can get to an area of resilience. Now, how do
45:59
you know you have a resilient microbiome? Well? Number one, you should
46:02
be able to eat almost anything, right. We are designed in a way
46:06
where you can eat almost anything. I talk to people all the time who
46:08
are like, oh, I feel just fine as long as I don't eat
46:12
this, and lists eighteen things they can't touch. Right, So that definitely
46:16
does not mean you are healthy. Right. Your system is supposed to be
46:21
able to handle a huge variety of food sources, and so if all you
46:25
can eat is meat and salt, then you're not healthy. Right. It
46:30
doesn't matter if you lost weight on it, it doesn't matter if you feel
46:32
better. You are not a healthy system. That's not how human is designed.
46:37
Right. If all you can eat is this one type of bean or
46:40
vegetable, and everything else bloats you and makes you feel inflamed and all that,
46:45
then you don't have a healthy microbiome. The second part is if you
46:49
have a high degree of stress, there is a gut brain access and your
46:52
microbiome dictates how well you come down from a stressful episode. Right, you
46:58
might experience stress, microbiome brings you down and balances you out so that sympathetic
47:02
parasympathetic balance the rest digests versus fight a flight response. If you're not balanced
47:08
with that, then you absolutely don't have a healthy microbiome. If you are
47:13
balanced to that, then you do have a healthy microbiome. Your immune system,
47:15
if you have any sort of allergies, sensitivitys, food sensitivity responses,
47:22
contact, dermatitis, skin issues, you know, environmental allergies, asthma,
47:27
all of those things means you have dysfunctional my immune system where you don't have
47:30
a healthy microbiomet. If you sleep well or you don't sleep well, it
47:36
means you don't have a healthy microbiome. Right. If you're struggling with weight
47:40
and metabolic issues. Right, If you've been trying to lose weight and you
47:44
can't seem to get it off, or you have a really hard time keeping
47:47
weight from coming on, those are indications of a non healthy microbiome. So
47:52
in order to feel like you have a healthy microbiome, you have to be
47:57
metabolically in tune. Your mood has to be perfectly well balanced. You have
48:00
to be able to get great sleep on a regular basis. You you should
48:06
be able to eat virtually anything and be okay. And almost none of us
48:10
know someone that's like that, right, But what you're saying, I avoid
48:15
the things that we know are harmful. So when when you say you can
48:17
eat anything, just don't eat all those processed foods and all the bat gluten,
48:22
you know, pizzas and pastas. So I think we have to be
48:27
sure to discriminate on our selections. But I think what you're saying is that
48:32
you don't have food allergies to the foods that you do that are healthy for
48:37
you. Yea, among real foods, right, So I consider most of
48:42
those things not even real food. I mean, those are disguising themselves as
48:45
food. So I'm talking about healthy, normal foods. If you can't eat
48:49
certain categories of things, you know, I can't eat roots and tubers,
48:52
I can't eat night shades, I can't eat this, you know, then
48:55
it's like, okay, that's something wrong with your system. And the solutions
49:00
not necessarily always avoid those things, right, because it means it's something that's
49:05
dysfunctional in their microbiome. Right. Okay, So because we just got signal
49:09
that we have only a couple of minutes, I want you to give us
49:13
just a little hint of the probiotics, prebiotics and post biotics because it's such
49:19
a confusing area people. One, because you waste a lot of money in
49:22
buying probiotics that never make it to your your intestines, right, They never
49:29
get through the stomach acid, So you're wasting all this money and I think
49:32
it's just frustrating for people when they read these articles. So can you just
49:37
tell us number one, what is the importance of a probiotic to all people
49:44
who are trying to improve their microbiome? And number two? And you're only
49:49
saying probiotics right now because it's too much of a subject to get into in
49:52
a couple of minutes. And then number two, how do you know you're
49:57
getting the right ones that's going to make it down to you your test?
50:02
So the most important feature of a probiotic is it's one that can actually alter
50:07
your microbiome in a positive way. Because any probiotic you take is a drop
50:13
in the bucket compared to the forty trillion or so microbes that live in your
50:16
system. Right, So if there is a probiotic you can take that can
50:20
actually effectuate change in your microbiome, that's going to be the most positive probiotic.
50:24
But that also requires that that probiotics survives through the gastric system, makes
50:29
it all the way to the intestines alive, and has a beneficial function on
50:34
your microbiome. That has to be demonstrated clinically. So any probiotic that does
50:38
not have a clinical study behind the finished product, and they have not shown
50:43
that it can alter your immune system and alter your microbiome, then it's likely
50:47
a waste of money. Don't be swayed by the CFE counts by the number
50:52
of strains and the hundreds of billions and all that. Fifteen strains, eighteen
50:55
strains, None of that matters, right, Most good probioticstef are done on
51:00
one, two, three strains or so with a few billiancy of fuse.
51:05
Right, So we use the spore based probiotics. That's what we did all
51:07
our research with the megaspore biotic. I think eighteen published papers we did on
51:13
it showing that it survives, It alters the gut microbiome in a positive way,
51:16
it influences their immune system, and that's that became the number one probiotic
51:22
among healthcare practitioners for that reason. Is you that's behind the Just Drive it
51:28
is, Yeah, yep. I help them with formulating and producing that as
51:31
well. The Just Thrive is a fantastic spore based probiotics, good studies behind
51:37
it again, another one that has research that also impacts change on your microbiome
51:43
and your immune system. And that's really the key, right because you need
51:45
to fix the structural issues that are going on in those ecosystems. Okay,
51:51
so everybody listened real carefully if you want to go take that first baby step
51:54
that Karan was talking about, other than all the things you talked about today,
51:59
which are challenges to you if your lifestyle is not being met by all
52:05
the good the good choices, but the most important thing you can do on
52:09
the probiotic go to microbion labs or Just Thrive. Those are two, and
52:15
I know there's another one called uh Seed. I don't know how you feel
52:20
about seed. Have you heard of them? I have yeah, I'm not
52:23
aware that they've done any research on the finish uh formulation. That's where they
52:29
they lose me a little bit. Okay, and you know that's that's a
52:32
question there for me. Well, so let's just stay with Microbion Labs.
52:37
And then in their product line you'll see is several choices. But what I
52:40
bought was the bundle, which is the megaspore the why don't you tell us
52:46
what it is? Yeah, the megasphore, the megapre and the mega mucosa.
52:51
It's is that the bundle of total gun restoration. Yeah. The idea
52:54
there is that you get the right probiotic. You get a prebiotic to feed
52:58
a lot of the beneficial back area, and then the megamune coosa rebuilds the
53:01
lining of the gut, because we know that leaky gut is one of the
53:06
biggest fundamental issues that most people face, especially if you have GI issues and
53:09
immune issues. Okay, one more thing too, and other than the other
53:14
products is just dry. So those are two to two hints for everybody to
53:17
go take action. But the other thing is really important. I heard you
53:22
say that you should not take a probiotic on an empty stomach. And yet
53:28
all these years on all the you know, the different products that I've bought,
53:32
they say only take your probiotic on an empty stomach. But then when
53:36
you were saying, is that that wouldn't survive the stomach acid even with the
53:39
more contemporary cutting edge products of the sport based So one quick final word,
53:49
when is the best time to take a probiotic or the package of the pro
53:54
premium post. Yeah, so you always want to take it with food.
53:58
Now here's the reason why they that don't take it with food. When you
54:01
eat food, your stomach starts releasing hydrochloric acid, right, so the acidity
54:07
actually becomes more intense when you eat food, and they're trying to get those
54:10
probiotics to survive, and so they don't want you to take it while you're
54:15
eating because it becomes more your stomach becomes more acidic when you're eating. So
54:19
that's why they say avoid meals and take it in between meals. Whereas in
54:23
nature, you always got your microbes that you consumed while you eat food,
54:29
and part of what the microbe is supposed to do, the probiotic is supposed
54:31
to do is help you break down and digest that food because a good probiotic
54:36
will also produce digestive enzymes, which helps you break down the food in a
54:39
healthy way. So if it's a probatic that you have to take in between
54:43
meals, then it's not necessarily going to function like a probiotic. Okay,
54:47
wonderful, Okay, So everybody, I just want you to know, Karan
54:51
is ever since I spoke with you about a month or so ago, I
54:54
was taking them first thing in the morning, and then I heard your a
55:00
comment on one of your podcasts and I said, oh, my goodness,
55:02
I've been doing it all wrong. I don't want my viewers to make the
55:06
same mistake I did. So everybody listened carefully that if you go to microbiome
55:10
Labs or just drive and get their products, make sure you take them with
55:15
food. And I like it earlier in the day, but I was reading
55:21
one article that said, oh, take it right before, right after,
55:23
right with your evening meal, because you got you know, doesn't work at
55:29
night. It goes to sleep, would you. And so it's more,
55:32
let's think probiotics do their work while you're resting. But I think it depends
55:37
on what people like, right, Yeah, I think whenever you can remember
55:42
it, that's the best, right, because you want to be consistent with
55:45
it, so don't get too obsessed with morning or evening. Get it into
55:47
your system on a regular basis, right, And then how many do you
55:52
take one? Because I know on the microbiome there's one that's like six of
55:55
them. So if you just reduce it down to one or two a day
56:02
with the three of them, is that all right for the vast majority of
56:07
people, that's perfectly fine. Yeah, that's great. Six is a little
56:10
much if you're taking six of each of those, plus you know the megaspor
56:16
so they had I think they had total was about thirteen a day, and
56:22
I think that's a little heavy for most people. All Right, Okay,
56:25
well, thank you so much. Sorry I tied this up and we have
56:30
to cut you off because I could talk to you for hours, But I
56:32
am going to look at the schedule and next time I want you to talk
56:36
about just to give everybody a hint of what's coming. Karan is working on
56:42
a product that's called SIV. It's a skincare product. He sent me a
56:46
couple of samples and I've been working on it. I think it's really done
56:51
amazing textually for my skin. I use it only on my face and neck
56:57
and dequite that would be something to look up. It's going to be coming
57:01
out to right or it's actually already it's out already. Yeah. At sifcare
57:07
dot com is where you see it. S I V yes sive care and
57:10
it And it's based on leaky skin like leaky guts. So anybody that's you
57:15
know, understands leaky gut could figure out the skin is your largest largest organ
57:21
and if you have weaky gut, you could also have leaky skin. So
57:24
and most too, so we'll talk about that. And then his hormone new
57:30
company in the hormone area, and on and on the seven of them.
57:34
So okay, well, thank you again, Karen. You have a beautiful
57:37
weekend and my pleasure. Okay, take care, Thank you, thank you
57:42
for having me. Bye bye,