Latest / Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh / Dealing with Blind Spots in Leadership

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Dealing with Blind Spots in Leadership · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

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  Hello and welcome to another episode of Chatting with the Experts where I speak
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  with phenomenal women from Africa, from the Caribbean, and in the diaspora.
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  We speak with a few men, but most times it's women.
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  And
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  these women share my mission, which is to educate, to empower, and to
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  encourage women all over the world.
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  My guests I said they're phenomenal.
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  Yes, they are.
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  Their bios blow me away and today's there's no exception.
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  The title of the show today is Blind Spots in Leadership.
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  And my guest who will join me in a few minutes says, your blind spots are
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  impacting your leadership presence.
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  My guest is a strategic advisor who helps directors and VPs turn career limiting
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  blind spots into leadership advantages.
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  With 30 years plus across seven Fortune 500 industries, more than
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  7,000 professionals coached, and with the master certified coach credentials
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  representing the top 5% worldwide, she brings insider knowledge of what separates
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  those who advance from those who plateau.
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  Oh my gosh.
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  She is phenomenal.
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  And why don't I do this?
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  Why don't I invite her to the show so she can talk with all
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  of you about what she does.
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  Welcome Sheila Carmichael, to Chatting with the Experts.
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  Hello.
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  Hello, Paula.
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  Thank you so much.
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  Well, what a beautiful introduction.
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  Oh my.
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  Thank you for having me.
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  Oh my word, as I said.
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  Oh my guests.
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  Your bios are so impressive, and yours of course is one of those You are
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  named as the Blind Spot Strategist.
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  I love that name.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  So, and you mentioned that you've coached over seven, well, 7,200
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  to be precise professionals.
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  So what's that common blind spot that you see that keeps derailing them?
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  Oh, my, there's, you know.
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  There's so many that folks have, and they're very unique to the person based on
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  their own experiences, their culture, that internal dialogue that they're having,
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  the environment they're working in.
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  But there are quite a few common ones, and I'll just name a few here.
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  One of which, when I think about, VPs, directors, and even C-Suite, they've
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  gotten to these roles and they're playing to their previous competency playbook.
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  The playbook, the success playbook that got them there.
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  And it needs to be re-engineered to fit at this higher level.
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  So that's a common one there.
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  When there's stress and under pressure, they're defaulting
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  to what worked in the past.
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  And that doesn't always work well in the present.
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  Another one deals with, the perception that they're, what they're dealing
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  with, and I call this their perception gap, and this is really about, let
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  me just perform, let me just do, if I just, if I just, I'll figure it out.
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  Just perform, perform, perform.
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  And this level isn't asking them to perform.
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  It's asking them for a higher level of influence to help others perform with the
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  excellence that they have demonstrated over the years they got them there.
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  Right?
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  And then another one is sometimes, you know, human nature, Paula,
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  we wanna be kind, we wanna be courteous, we wanna be respectful.
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  And again, depending on your culture and your background and the environment
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  that you're working in and your mindset.
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  I don't wanna hurt anybody's feelings.
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  I'm just gonna wait before I jump in.
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  Especially in corporations, you know, I just got this job.
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  I wanna make my mark.
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  I don't wanna disrupt so much, and I don't wanna rock the boat.
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  And I don't want people to see me as being the mean, vulgar, you
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  know, whatever kind of leader.
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  I want them to see me as a professional leader, and that gets in the way of them
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  having more of an impact, influence.
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  They're waiting for the right moment to strike, and while they're waiting, someone
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  else is scooping up that opportunity to showcase what they bring to the table.
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  So that, those are the top three, I would say there's many, many others, but those
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  are the ones I see the most that come up.
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  If only I can just wait.
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  I'm waiting, Sheila, I'm waiting.
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  You know, what do I need to do?
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  What do I need to do?
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  And you know, I know what I need to do.
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  I just need to do what I've done in the past.
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  It worked before.
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  It's like, no.
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  Those are common ones.
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  So what I'm hearing really and truly, like there's not much preparation.
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  So I mean, you are promoted based on what you were doing such a good job at.
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  Yes.
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  And suddenly you are in a position where they don't want
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  you to do what you did before.
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  They don't want you to enhance the performance of those for where you came
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  from or those, you know, your subordinates and you don't know how to do it.
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  No.
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  No, they didn't give you an instruction book for it.
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  And here's the other thing, this is another common one that comes up that they
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  forget that they were promoted because they did such a great job in the past.
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  They were able to get things done, they were able to make it happen,
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  and they collaborated with others at their appropriate levels for the
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  level they were in to get that done.
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  And like you just said you get to the higher level, the next level
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  up, and sometimes it's two or more.
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  The scope and the responsibility changes.
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  The players in which you have to collaborate changes.
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  The objectives are sometimes not always clear,
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  so now you are trying it's like you've been so accustomed to playing soccer.
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  I am gonna use that as an example, right?
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  You've been so accustomed to playing soccer and now we just
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  threw you on a basketball court.
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  Oh, I love it.
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  It's a whole different uniform, different skill sets, different size
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  ball, how you make your goals and the ways that you can make your goals.
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  It's so much more different.
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  But nobody told you the rule book.
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  Nobody gave it to you.
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  Like, what's your position?
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  They gave you the title, but they didn't give you any instructions
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  around how do you play the difference between a point guard and a center?
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  How do you play the difference when we're defense or offense?
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  They didn't give you any guidance around that.
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  They are assuming because you figured it out before, you're gonna figure
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  this out now at a higher level.
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  They have belief in you and a lot of times, they forget that they were chosen.
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  I've been in these meetings where we discuss, you know, who gets slotted for
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  the next role as it comes up, what are the things we need to do to accelerate
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  their development, to be successful in that role, but the conversations
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  to say, Hey, here's where the gaps are that you will need for this role.
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  Oh, they'll figure it out.
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  They'll figure it out, and they're not figured out.
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  Some do.
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  I won't say all.
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  Some do who can kind of help them when there's a misstep or something like that,
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  but many, quite many don't have that.
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  And that's where you come in.
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  Yeah, I helped them get it.
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  So something must have led to you seeing that in yourself there.
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  You could see what's wrong, something probably what stood out to you.
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  I mean, you saw the problem and you realized, I can see the
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  problem, but my colleagues don't seem to be able to see that.
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  Yeah.
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  What kind of got you there?
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  You know, it's a great question and I love it because I've experienced it myself.
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  And there were roles in which I had some amazing mentors that
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  would pull me aside and say, Hey Sheila, we need to have a talk.
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  Right?
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  And they were honest.
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  They were candid, they were caring and compassionate.
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  It wasn't delivered the feedback like a sledgehammer, it was more to
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  advantage me versus disadvantage me.
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  It wasn't given to strip me down.
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  It was provided to build me up and I made an assumption that everybody got that in
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  certain organizations I worked for, it was true that most people receive that.
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  Right?
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  But in some other organizations, no,
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  it was more the reverse.
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  Where people were not sharing, not mentoring, not delivering
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  feedback in a way to advantage you.
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  They were more so keeping quiet for their own blind spots.
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  We don't wanna tell them and make them feel this way.
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  This nice culture, quote unquote, nice culture that I've seen
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  in quite a few organizations.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  I have a phrase for that, Paula.
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  It's like nice nasty.
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  That's very propriate.
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  I think,
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  you know, it's nice nasty.
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  They think they're doing something good and it's like, it's professionally
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  wrapped, but what it's really doing is taking away your own confidence.
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  They're not giving you enough or they're not giving you anything,
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  especially when you start receiving feedback like, oh no, you're fine.
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  This is how that always, it is not enough substance around it, and that's
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  two ways, as far as fault is concerned, the person asking for the feedback is
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  not asking specifically, and the person giving it is not giving it specifically.
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  So now you've got this kind of casual light, nice, nasty
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  conversation going, regardless of the motives it's not helping.
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  It truly is not helping, but they think it is and it's not on both sides.
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  So what I do is I come in and I help them to really, you know, when it's
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  coaching to the individual or coaching for the team, the executive team.
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  It's really just to help with understanding and raising their awareness
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  to understand what's really going on.
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  And it's interesting when you bring somebody from the
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  outside in, all ears are open.
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  When the people on the inside try to communicate this, people shut 'em down.
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  Hmm.
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  And I know that firsthand.
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  Hmm.
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  I know that firsthand though, when you pay for someone to come in
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  from the outside, it gets heard.
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  It gets heard.
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  Yeah.
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  And I can see why.
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  Yeah.
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  Because like from the inside, it's almost like, okay, so you don't
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  like me or you are just, being extra picky or you want, you are jealous.
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  Yeah.
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  But when someone from the outside comes in, they're like, okay, this is neutral.
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  I will listen.
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  Because whatever they bring, they don't know me from Adam and... yep.
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  Exactly.
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  Exactly.
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  And I think that you're so on point with that, Paula.
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  The relationship you have internally, depending on where
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  that's at, can determine if that communication is gonna be good or not.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  If it's gonna be effective.
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  If it's gonna resonate.
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  Right?
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  And there's a phrase, you know, a halo horn effect.
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  Depending on how the receiver's getting that information, they may anchor to it
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  because they've seen you do some amazing things and they give you the halo effect.
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  Like anything that you touch is gonna be gold.
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  Yeah.
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  Then it could be the other, maybe you had this one little misstep, hiccup and
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  they're holding onto it like a grudge.
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  That's the horn effect.
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  Well, because they did this, she did this, he did that, whatever it might
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  be, they're anchoring to that versus seeing the person more holistically of
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  what they bring to the table and that can interfere with communications.
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  Evoking awareness of what's the realities of going on inside the organization or
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  for the individual, and even when I'm coaching them one-on-one, I can hear
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  that same perception, that Halo Horn, you know, well, they never did like me.
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  Well, they may not, but what if that's not the case?
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  Right.
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  You know, I'm coaching the person, you know that situation, so to speak,
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  because I believe in the person, and I also believe Paula, I'll say this
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  and, and, and go ahead and pause.
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  We all have unique gifts that we bring to the table.
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  Absolutely, yes.
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  And when you have the right mentor, the right coach.
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  The person who's got your back because they know you've got this from within,
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  and that's truly where my belief systems are, then you could help uncover those
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  and see them and just re-engineer them in a way to be more strategic in how
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  you want to choose to show up versus having it as a default that I just need
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  to act this way and behave this way because that's what I've always done.
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  Yeah.
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  And I'm not trying to change you.
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  I'm just trying to help you.
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  Just like a car going in to get, you know, diagnostic repairs to see
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  what belt needs to be adjusted or air in the tire or gas in the tank.
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  I'm helping you to understand, to diagnose, what is it that you
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  need in order for you to run at optimal speed, optimal performance.
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  So that brings me back to this question.
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  So now, are you able to help or see what it is that the powers that be I'll just
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  say that they saw in that person, what did they evaluate in that particular person
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  that they felt that they needed, that that person needed to be promoted, that
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  they now don't seem to be able to nurture.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  What is that?
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  It could be so many different things based on the company's culture, their
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  processes for evaluating talent.
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  Many times it's anchored to their skills, knowledge, and experiences,
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  and they kind of put them into a sheet or whatever format they use for their
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  talent reviews, and they go, okay, based on what this job is needing,
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  this next level is needing, who has most of what we need to fit into this?
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  Also, based on the timing.
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  If it's an immediate thing that they have to come in and hit the ground running,
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  or is there some leeway to get them up to speed based on where their gap is?
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  So it's usually so many different things that can influence that decision.
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  It could be that the reason they want this person in there, you know, sometimes
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  they bring people in to turn it around.
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  Yes, true.
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  Sometimes they bring people in to take what's already there as
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  a foundation and build it up.
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  Sometimes they bring people in to blow it up, you know, so understanding
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  the rationale behind the state of the organization and the skills
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  that they observed from what was being demonstrated to say, okay,
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  this is why this person was chosen.
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  And I love that question, Paula.
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  Because here's the next question.
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  Did they share that with the individual?
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  Just about to ask?
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  Yes.
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  And most times they don't.
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  I wish I could tell you there, I've worked for a few companies
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  in which it was revealed.
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  But there's, I don't know what's going on in some companies.
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  I wish I could tell you it's a cultural thing.
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  Some companies err on the theory of, yes, we share folks where they
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  are in our nine box framework that they use and where they're at.
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  And if they're ready now, ready in 24 months, are ready, you know,
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  24 to 36 months, and here's why we see them ready in their readiness
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  level in other organizations, Paula.
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  No, no, no.
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  We don't tell no, Sheila.
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  You'd be surprised what I say.
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  Well, what have you shared with the individual to let them know about
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  their readiness gap or, you know, where there's opportunities for growth?
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  Oh, oh, no, we never share the nine box placement.
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  Well, what do you share?
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  Yes.
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  You don't share anything.
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  Now, so you come in, I know you're a coach, so it can either be individual
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  coaching or team coaching, right?
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  Mm-hmm.
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  So for the individual, how do you help them uncover that blind spot
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  that no one has shared with them?
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  You know?
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  Yeah.
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  Because if it's a team, then, you know, it could be, it's a team.
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  So we are talking... everybody's there, but with the individual who just
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  like feels there's something amiss, I don't even know what I'm doing wrong.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Yeah.
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  Like how do they uncover what it is?
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  Yeah.
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  You know, the first thing is our body and our brains and the
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  neural network that we hold.
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  It is amazing.
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  Something's going off.
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  Intuition is telling you something's not quite right.
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  Something...
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  You're feeling this stress physiologically in your body, your mind is thinking.
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  So I try to get some understanding around that.
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  And then depending on your level and depending on the timing in the role.
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  We will probably do a couple of different diagnostics, some assessments, some
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  that might be self assessments, just to understand who you are, how you operate,
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  what's innate for you, and where there may be ways in which to leverage the
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  things that are not quite your comfort zone to get them more comfortable.
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  And then we'll also probably do what's called a 360 assessment.
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  So that's your world, the way you see it in a self-assessment.
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  But let's check that against the way others are seeing it
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  in multiple different areas.
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  Let's check it against the way your reporting leader sees it and possibly
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  their the next two boss, right?
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  Your boss, your boss's boss.
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  What about your peers who you have to interact with?
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  That's good.
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  Who you need to support you.
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  And then what about the team that you're expecting to help
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  execute against your vision?
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  So now we've got this kind of paneled mirror.
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  If you've ever had something that needed to be tailored, I use this
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  analogy all the time, and you go to the tailor and you're trying to adjust the
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  suit or dress or whatever, and you're standing on the pedestal and you've
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  got these different panel of mirrors.
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  So we need to check to see what's the view from each of those mirror.
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  Taylor's seeing it one way you're feeling and seeing it another, but what about the
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  window of the boss and the boss's boss?
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  What about the mirror panel of your peers?
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  What about the mirror panel of your direct reports and what about others who
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  maybe you interact with in a different capacity to have a common perspective,
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  maybe for projects or clients or customers or whatever it might be.
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  And let's see, based on those individual panel perspectives, what
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  they see in you, does that match up the way you see it in yourself?
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  And a lot of times, I'll tell you, Paula, they have no idea.
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  They see some amazing things that they didn't realize where they're
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  expending a lot of energy and things that maybe if they had placed
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  it somewhere else, it would help line up those perspectives better.
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  But you need a coach to help you with that.
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  Your boss can't do your 360 and give you the interpretation.
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  Right?
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  And depending on the level, I then would recommend one of two options.
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  There's an online version.
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  Then there's also interviewing some key stakeholders.
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  So depending on your role and your level, based on my experience, you know, the
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  higher you go, we probably wanna do more interviewing style versus an online.
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  If you're at the director and possible VP, depending on the structure
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  of your organization, then that's where you may wanna do an online.
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  Depending on the role too and the scope of the role, a VP can go either
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  way, depending again, but C-Suite, definitely, I usually do interviews
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  with some key stakeholders just to get a diagnostic around that.
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  And then I pull that information.
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  It's anonymous.
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  There's a difference between anonymous and confidential.
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  A lot of people say, oh, it's confidential.
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  No, I'm gonna share with my client themes and patterns, but I'm not gonna
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  let them know where that came from.
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  That's anonymous.
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  That's how it also shows up on the online version too, if you're using a reputable
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  360, which there are tons out there.
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  So it's just a matter of knowing that this is strictly for the coach and their person
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  who they're coaching their client, and they're going to look for those themes and
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  patterns, build together a solid action plan, and then monitor and track to see
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  how we're, you know, executing against that plan and if there's any adjustments
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  that need to be made along the way.
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  So you need a coach for that.
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  You too.
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  You need to.
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  A neutral person, not tainted by the culture of the company.
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  Not influenced, by positions of power.
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  You need a coach for that.
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  Yes.
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  And the coach as I think has to be someone that you bring in, like from an outside.
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  Because you mentioned not being tainted by the culture.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  And by...
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  yeah.
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  Interpersonal relationships and...
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  mm-hmm.
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  Now, I will say I have worked as an internal coach in one of the Big
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  Fours and other Fortune 500 companies.
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  Oh really?
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  And it can work if the processes and communications are in place.
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  Hmm, okay,
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  It can work.
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  But there are certain levels in which I would not personally
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  recommend an internal coach because of the sensitivity of that role.
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  And if that person's working there, and let's say coaching a C-suite
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  individual may be challenging, you're gonna get influenced by that.
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  Absolutely.
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  Yeah.
• 22:57
  So there are certain levels that that, director, VP and C-suite, depending
• 23:01
  on how the organization is structured.
• 23:03
  That's why I focus on that.
• 23:05
  It may benefit the organization more to have the external neutral versus someone
• 23:12
  who could be influenced, have a bias.
• 23:15
  Because they work there.
• 23:16
  Because they work there.
• 23:18
  Yes.
• 23:19
  And it may be unintentional, it may be unintentional.
• 23:23
  But you're not positioning your coach to be the best.
• 23:27
  If the communication strategy is not in place, the policies are not in place.
• 23:32
  The marketing of that function is not in place.
• 23:34
  If you're approaching it, the Oprah Effect, everybody gets to
• 23:38
  coach that, that, that's a...
• 23:43
  you can outsource that.
• 23:45
  Okay?
• 23:45
  Don't do... don't give that to a highly trained, skilled coach,
• 23:51
  that's not what they need to do.
• 23:54
  I agree.
• 23:58
  That's my opinion.
• 24:00
  There may be companies who are doing that just fine and God bless you, but when
• 24:04
  you're working with these higher levels, these more strategic, influential levels,
• 24:11
  my opinion, I don't think that's where you best utilize your internal coaches.
• 24:15
  You use them for other things.
• 24:18
  I would agree with you 100% on that.
• 24:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:21
  It can get, I can see how it can get messy.
• 24:25
  It can get a little sticky unintentionally.
• 24:27
  Unintentionally.
• 24:27
  By no fault somebody in the organization's gonna reach out to that person, say, Hey,
• 24:33
  can
• 24:33
  ... You gimme some insights of what's been going on in the coaching conversation?
• 24:36
  Like really?
• 24:37
  We went through this.
• 24:41
  No.
• 24:46
  And then what happens to the internal coach when they
• 24:48
  don't, you know, release...
• 24:51
  Certain...
• 24:51
  confidential information?
• 24:53
  Yes.
• 24:54
  I think that it gets sticky.
• 24:56
  It gets sticky?
• 24:57
  Yeah, it gets very sticky.
• 25:00
  So, my God, this is so interesting.
• 25:03
  As I mentioned offline, when I first met you and spoke with you, I was
• 25:06
  leaning in and I'm still leaning in because this is how the world works.
• 25:10
  Corporations work this way.
• 25:12
  Organizations work this way.
• 25:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:14
  And you know, for things to function properly, you've got to have
• 25:20
  someone like you being able to, point out just a little thing or it
• 25:25
  sometimes it could be the big thing.
• 25:26
  Yeah.
• 25:27
  That's in your blind spot.
• 25:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:31
  So we are close on this.
• 25:32
  I know you mentioned to me that your signature question is always, what
• 25:37
  is that situation asking of you?
• 25:41
  Yes.
• 25:43
  Yes.
• 25:44
  Why do you ask that question?
• 25:45
  Oh, Paula it's, you know, 'cause I've studied a lot around neuroscience, not
• 25:51
  just within business, but in coaching.
• 25:53
  All right.
• 25:54
  I'm just a geek around it because our bodies are amazing in the way they
• 26:00
  process what we're going through, and we actually have a default neural
• 26:05
  method that's going to constantly be on looking for, is this safer, is it not?
• 26:13
  We're just designed that way so I can, this question is not unique.
• 26:18
  I think it good coaches use this type of question and it's to help you just
• 26:24
  kind of pause that default thinking of, are you safe into really exploring,
• 26:32
  coming more into your prefrontal cortex and saying, okay, let me think higher.
• 26:36
  Let me think differently because when I'm stuck in this, oh, I got to, I have
• 26:42
  to, I need to, you are reinforcing this stress behavior, stress thinking, but
• 26:49
  if we can shift you out of that place, it's a transformational question.
• 26:56
  And it can be used in different situations, whether it's personal
• 27:00
  or professional, to help you think differently, shift your
• 27:05
  thinking to get a different result.
• 27:10
  But if you're caught and I don't know, just take a moment.
• 27:17
  And I know people say, oh, that's corny.
• 27:19
  Breathing is important.
• 27:21
  Your brain needs oxygen to think.
• 27:23
  So take a moment.
• 27:26
  Do whatever deep breathing exercise that you found works best for
• 27:30
  you, and ask yourself, what is the situation really asking of me?
• 27:37
  Is it asking for me to use a skill that I already have.
• 27:42
  Is it asking for me to learn something different?
• 27:44
  Is it asking me to apply what I have in a different way?
• 27:48
  A coach can help you with processing that question more holistically versus just
• 27:54
  in your world based on what you feel is going on right now and I gotta react.
• 28:00
  No, you can pause.
• 28:03
  Now, I'm not suggesting you do this when your house is on fire or you know, for
• 28:08
  safety reason, I need you to get out.
• 28:11
  Right?
• 28:12
  But at a work, work environment is the house really on fire here?
• 28:17
  You could take three to 30 seconds to pause with this question and let us sit
• 28:23
  with you and you'll be amazed at how that just really pivots your thinking.
• 28:33
  The deep breaths, as you mentioned, it may sound corny, but
• 28:37
  scientifically it has been proven that when you get more oxygen in...
• 28:42
  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 28:43
  Oxygen supports life.
• 28:45
  Yeah.
• 28:45
  Your brain needs that oxygen sometime, and the pause can be powerful.
• 28:50
  That helps you to think
• 28:54
  Yes, it does.
• 28:55
  When we're in stress mode, Paula, we're not breathing properly.
• 28:59
  At all.
• 29:00
  We're trying to hold onto whatever oxygen we have to get ready to fight.
• 29:04
  Take it out, right, or run or whatever.
• 29:06
  Right?
• 29:07
  Fight, flight, freeze and fawn.
• 29:08
  We're trying to do something to protect ourselves, but when your
• 29:12
  neural system and nervous system is at ease, it's not worrying about that.
• 29:20
  Now you can think more openly.
• 29:22
  You can explore what are some other options to deal with this.
• 29:25
  Other options.
• 29:26
  Mm-hmm.
• 29:27
  They always are.
• 29:29
  They always are other options.
• 29:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 29:33
  Well, my, but Sheila, I'd love to continue this conversation, but
• 29:37
  because we have people who have joined us and who would love to talk with
• 29:41
  you one-on-one, I'll give you the opportunity to let people know who
• 29:46
  haven't been able to join us, let people know where they can find you online.
• 29:50
  So that this conversation can be continued with you.
• 29:53
  Yes.
• 29:54
  'cause it's needed.
• 29:56
  Yes.
• 29:57
  So if we will, if someone was looking to get in touch with you
• 30:01
  online, where can they find you?
• 30:04
  Oh my number one spot is LinkedIn.
• 30:06
  Mm-hmm.
• 30:07
  You can reach out to me there, you can go to my website,
• 30:10
  which is sheilacarmichael.com.
• 30:13
  I'm also on Instagram and Facebook, but primarily, I will say it's my LinkedIn
• 30:20
  profile as well as my site, my website.
• 30:24
  Thank you so much, and for those of you who are in the audience or who are
• 30:28
  listening to this later on, just like Sheila has been a guest on my show, I'd
• 30:33
  love for you to reach out to me on my website if you'd like to be a guest,
• 30:37
  which is chattingwiththeexperts.com.
• 30:40
  Similar to Sheila, I love my LinkedIn, so you can reach
• 30:43
  out to me on LinkedIn as well.
• 30:45
  I'm also on Instagram.
• 30:48
  I handle this at chat_experts_podcast.
• 30:55
  On Facebook, I have a business page, so that's Chatting with the Experts.
• 31:00
  And please, please subscribe to channel, which is Chatting with the Experts.
• 31:06
  There's so much you can learn.
• 31:09
  I have been learning.
• 31:11
  You can learn because the whole mission of this show is to educate, to encourage
• 31:19
  and to empower women all over the world.
• 31:23
  Yes.
• 31:24
  Thank you so much, Sheila, for everything that you have shared.
• 31:30
  And now we'll open up the floor to those who have joined us online so that they can
• 31:35
  speak with you and find out a lot more, much more than what I could have asked.
• 31:40
  Thank you.
• 31:42
  Thank you.