Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #212: Bill Edson-Keene State College

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#212: Bill Edson-Keene State College · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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  Track and field coach, the ones that point
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  people most every season. He's the voice of reason.
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  It's not a boy, but if I see, y'all can make more movies, not
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  about how to All about why you don't know what you're you know
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  The work ain't done. So we learn from the experts to.
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  Y'all got to put in the legwork Gil athletic shoes Network.
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  It's all about Connections put together for the profession to
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  every track coach could be blessed.
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  All right. Here we are back again.
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  Episode 212. I am you've heard me say that
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  for the last few episodes of just being amazed.
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  Once we hit 200, I kind of just got, I don't know, it's just
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  humbling it, you know, over 200 coaches from literally around
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  the world. Have joined us here on the Gill
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  tract and field connections podcast.
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  And we're just so happy that you have joined us here.
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  Again, this week to learn about this week's guest.
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  I'm so humble to be your host here.
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  Mike Cunningham national business development manager for
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  Gil Athletics. Really my job is just the host
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  this podcast and also to hang out on Twitter quite often as
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  well. You haven't connected with me
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  over there, hit me up at my Cunningham over on Twitter and
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  follow us on at, Yale Athletics over at Twitter as well.
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  But to, let's quit doing all this hemming and hawing, this
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  intro, and let's get in today with our guests.
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  Help me, welcome from Keene State College the wise, the
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  wonderful, mr. Bill adson Bill.
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  How are you? Sir?
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  I'm good. Mike, thanks for having me.
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  This is just hugely humbling to me to be number.
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  Well, just to be on, this list is just humbling.
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  I'm very honored. So it's great to be here.
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  I appreciate it. You know, I think in this is
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  going to sound a little self-promoting here, but I think
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  most people when they build something of big massive value
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  and worth don't ever see that it could be that from the get-go.
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  And so what I mean by that is you know here on episode 212
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  when I first started this back in January of twenty twenty
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  first of all had no clue what was going to happen in, you know
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  too. 23, it's short months of with covid hidden.
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  But you know, just started out as an idea, comment experiment
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  of like, you know, there's all these bio pages on college and
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  high school track coaches, you know, these biomes of where
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  they've been and people they've coach and I've always read
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  those. I've always loved those and I've
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  always read those thinking man, there's more, there's more
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  behind these words and with the really invention and ease of how
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  to create podcast. It was like, man, I want to This
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  you know it's Old Timers say on wax, right?
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  I want to get this on wax on people's Journeys because
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  they're just so unique from the quote-unquote top.
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  You know, as we were recording today, build an NCAA division.
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  One championships just got done. So edrick, floreal and mouse
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  Holloway Bravo to you gentlemen, have had mouse mouse is a gill
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  podcast the lung. By the way, you know, for those
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  guys to the high school coach in Buda Texas, which is just up the
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  road from where I am right now. Now, they're amazing people that
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  choose to be a coach and their stories of how they got to
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  coaching and who helped them to become what mentors whether
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  there was a coach or a fellow coach that they bounced ideas
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  off of. And so as we sit here in June of
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  2023 and episode 212 and have zero speed bumps in the way,
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  they'll be an episode, four hundred one thousand, God
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  willing in the future. So I'm just It's quite amazing
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  and Bill. It starts with people like you
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  and I'm so happy. Thank you for taking the time to
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  sit down with us. This is not a it's busy season.
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  There's no those slow down for you guys.
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  And gals out there coaching. So, just grateful for you to be
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  here today, on the Gill podcast. Yeah, thanks.
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  I mean, it's the connections, the journeys.
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  That's the gold man that your show is fire.
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  And I, I just, I've really fallen into it and because I
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  love the I love hearing the stories and the journeys that
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  time. I am emotionally connecting with
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  just about every guest that you have because of that, I can
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  relate to them in some way. So I hope that they'll be able
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  to relate to my story and journey to no doubt in before we
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  get started with that Journey. Bill before we hit record, here
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  you mentioned something that you've done with a few guests
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  that we've had that I really would like to talk about a
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  little bit because I want other people to know that that it's
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  okay, you know, so you have to tell us more about you.
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  Scribing you took some initiative of some recent guests
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  and actually reached out to them can you tell us kind of, first
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  of all, why did you even decide to do that and how you did it?
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  And did anybody ever did anybody reject?
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  You didn't buy say, yeah, don't talk to me, no rejections yet.
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  You know what? What really I just felt like
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  listening to their story. We had a common connection,
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  common ground to work off of and then I felt like they could be a
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  resource for me going forward and or there was just an
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  emotional connection, you know, after seeing In witnessing.
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  How many people you know, by name?
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  I realized that my list is really small.
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  I mean, it's really it's really small and and so you know, it
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  inspired me to start to get more involved in the Greater
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  Community of track and field I think because I am a part-time
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  coach and I have been very compartmentalized geographically
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  of kind of stuck within those regions, you know.
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  And I've stayed within the most available resources to to me
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  because I don't have a lot of extra time, since I'm, you know,
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  working a full-time gig and then going right off the practice
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  that sort of thing. So I just realized I, you know,
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  I would like to meet some of these people and expand my
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  network as well. I think that was the biggest
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  thing that inspired me was that, you know, so many people have a
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  couple of good stories about some of your guests actually to
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  act and so pleased. We got to hear that.
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  We'll get to it are the journey so so so, yeah, that's it, you
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  know, I just wanted to just be a better.
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  I coach, you know, when I was in the military, we used to always
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  have this this I guess, principle of always improve your
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  fighting position or always improve, you know, your position
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  where you're at. And so, I've taken that to heart
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  and them always trying to improve where I am as a coach as
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  well. So well, I appreciate that.
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  You know when we first started this back in I said January
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  2020. You know there's lots of names
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  that can that kind of come out as you You can about you know
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  what what to name the podcast and you know what's the goal,
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  the podcast you kind of want to name it around that could have
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  gone very simple and just said you know the track coach podcast
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  things like that, right? But it became really apparent
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  really quickly about Connections and we talked about how small
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  the world is and we talked about how small the track coaching
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  Community is well you know it became like well how do we make
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  it even smaller? You know, how does a part-time
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  coach up in the Northeast? How does he or she Get to know
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  the throws coach out in California.
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  Or the Sprint coach down in Texas or the leadership expert
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  up in Minnesota. How do we make that even easier
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  less scary in some parts in the world?
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  You know, sometimes we get to built up around what school or
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  what awards of coaches had? And you know, it's like well I
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  can't reach out to them. Why would they want to talk to
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  me? I guarantee you, none of those
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  people got to where they were without being you the first time
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  coach thing. Like that.
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  So real. I'm just so proud of you
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  honestly, that you'd reach out to people and that shouldn't use
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  that as an encouragement for coaches, that are listening
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  today. Have listened to episodes in the
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  past. There's a coach out there that
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  you Bill use that word emotional connection.
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  There was something about that story.
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  Maybe you have a person or an athlete in common but none of
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  these coach. That's why I said has anybody
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  reject you? Because I knew the answer.
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  No, any coach who's willing to come here and spill their R life
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  out is not the type of person that is a stay away from me
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  person. So just want to encourage you
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  that next time you see a coach that you've really wanted to
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  talk to and meet and introduce. And, you know, I'm always
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  careful with that word network because sometimes that word
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  network is, well, what can that coach do for me?
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  And so I want you to come more with a posture of.
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  Well, what can you bring a value to that person that you want to
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  meet? And it could be just an
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  introduction? Just could be just, hey, I just
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  want, you know, we maybe we should be in each other's
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  Network, may not mean. Anything today, but maybe in 5
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  years, 10 years, Etc, but less going forward to reach out to
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  that, coach of walls, are a job available.
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  Can I get you on my resume? Those kind of things.
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  You gotta come with a posture value.
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  First and foremost, I wanted to make sure we brought that up.
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  Okay, Bill, well, let's talk about your journey, you know, at
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  some point somewhere assuming that you were an athlete may be
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  coaching switched for you from something that was done to you.
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  You know, Bill go run this, go throw that.
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  That at cetera to, we're somewhere in your mind.
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  I was like, oh, wait a minute, maybe I could be like, this
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  could actually be something I could do.
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  Where does coaching, where's track and field start for you?
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  Well, I was a, I participated in track and field in high school.
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  Like a lot of folks did, I was very much and they grew up in a
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  family with a mindset of track and field.
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  My dad was a big track and field fan.
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  He loved track and field when he was in high school.
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  She shared a lot of those. Great stories of me and my
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  brother. And and so when we had an
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  opportunity to get involved with track and field and running, we
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  did, in fact, I was I think 11 years old when I started to
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  compete in road races Works which back in those days set
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  1975 or so there's there weren't very many road races.
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  So my first mom my brother's a few years older than me.
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  So he was actually able to To start competing at the high
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  school level. I started watching that and then
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  I started competing in my first race.
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  Ever was a Nine Mile Road Race. Yeah, my first one ever when I
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  was 12 years old. So, what as soon as I finished
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  Little League Baseball, it was there was no Babe Ruth or any
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  other Progressive thing to happen between then and and, you
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  know, in high school. So I just started kind of
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  running. And I did like football a lot.
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  Played some football in junior high.
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  But then when I went to high school, I was all-in with
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  cross-country and track and field.
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  So so that nine-mile race. Do you remember when you
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  finished? Because, you know, some kids
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  would finish that and be like okay never again first time,
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  last time in some kids will be like, oh, what a challenge.
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  I finished in X time will, man. I felt like I could actually
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  went faster in the middle and finished with a better time.
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  Do you remember how you felt after that?
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  First race. Was it a challenge or was it
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  like, give me a break. I'm done.
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  We're where's the basketball? Let me go.
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  Shoot hoops or something. I mean I actually trained for
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  it. My dad helped me set up a
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  training room regimen, I actually trained for it and so
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  the object was to finish without walking, I can remember that.
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  Sure. And when I finished it was like,
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  yeah, I did this. And then, you know, I did kind
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  of feel like my could have probably run faster, but I
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  didn't know any better. My brother who turned out to be
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  an All-American high school Runner.
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  Um ran he the funny thing was to as that I got a trophy for being
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  the youngest Runner and he like a fourth place, so he didn't get
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  anything at all. So my older brother who got all
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  the accolades in sports? I was that was the one thing I
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  could always hold over his head was this runs ever since I was a
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  little, you know. So I'm sure you reminded him of
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  that as much as you could during it.
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  Yeah I think I didn't have. That's it that's a good little
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  brother he was pretty ruthless. We did run one year together.
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  On the high school track team. When he was a senior.
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  I was a freshman. Yeah, I didn't have to remind
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  him that too much crushed. So many times.
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  So good. Yeah.
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  But that race didn't Crush. You.
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  And so, you continue one and run in high school, how was your
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  high school career? And when I say that, I don't
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  mean, you know, accolades necessarily things like that.
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  I'll see you can share those as well.
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  But more of like, how was your relationship with the coaching
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  staff? As we focus on the coaching side
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  of things here for, you know, it's a small School in very
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  Northern New York and fact, small town called Ticonderoga
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  Ticonderoga New York, may have heard of your into history, may
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  not be kind of Rogue of pencils originally graphite.
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  For those pencils came from that region, they don't any longer,
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  but the name is still on the pencil.
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  But anyway, that's it's up in the Adirondacks.
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  The largest metropolitan City close to where I live in
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  Northern New York, was Montreal, Canada.
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  So it's up there. Anyway.
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  So small Down and in a small County in the Adirondacks and
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  track and field and running became, you know, a really great
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  way to connect and build friendships and relationships
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  that are lasting for us. And It was just a very positive,
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  it was just a very positive experience.
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  I learned a lot of life lessons through through, through the
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  hole, I guess. You know, the whole I guess
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  procedures of practice and how to get better and you know, and
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  then what I think it's always been for me is everything has
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  been like relationship-based so important have positive
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  relationship, my positive experience because that's what
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  you can grow on to me. And that's what we found there.
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  Had a couple of really good friends that we connected from
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  the time we were freshmen and we finished, you know, my senior
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  year as captains together, I had to You really good coaches, who
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  I guess, I really didn't. I mean, I because they were,
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  they were, they were good in our team was really good.
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  Kind of take those guys for granted, a little bit until you
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  look back. Right?
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  And they, the one coach was really good in establishing
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  relationships. He was my cross-country coach
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  name is Jim Cunningham, son. Sounds like a great guy.
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  Yeah, he's a great guy. I and he was really about
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  establishing relationships and the positive experience in my in
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  the track head coach. He ended up helping with some of
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  the specialty events that the track head coaches name is Tom
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  Stricker. He was really good at mapping
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  out practice sessions and he what I love about both of them
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  was that he'll they didn't micromanage us.
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  They let us work in establish our level of work ethic and what
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  we wanted to get out of it and we really understood what we put
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  into it is what we got out of it and then again I had my dad on
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  the other side to who was not ever second guessing these guys.
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  But just in case Encouraging me and with statements, like you're
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  going to get out of it, what you put into it, you know, so double
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  sessions sometimes, you know, in some other things that just made
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  us better, you know? So I ended up being, you know,
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  on All Conference teams and on Championship relay teams and,
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  you know, scoring at the championship meets and, you
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  know, being a vital, I think, contributor to our, to, our
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  Prague, to our success, and our progress as a program.
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  All four years that I was there. We won our section title and
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  Estates broken down into sections.
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  New York is huge and then that had never been done before.
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  That is School. 14 section championships, in a row and we
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  were able to do that. And in those days you didn't run
• 17:19
  against schools of your size, you ran up against schools who
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  are in your region. So we're running against
• 17:25
  enormous schools who are competing against enormous
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  schools. And in what I Earned two.
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  And this is all came within dinner.
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  Table discussions was the strategy of how to coach during
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  a track meet and the importance of establishing depth and Coach
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  drink. And Coach Cunningham did such a
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  great job of establishing depth on our team and finding
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  athletes, who wanted to put the work in, to be the best that we
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  could be. And that's such a huge precedent
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  on me on, you know, bringing my life forward.
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  No matter what I was doing, it was all about No, just trying to
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  get to be the best that you can by putting the effort in.
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  You know, I'm becoming just become the best you can and
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  whatever you decide to do. So I was mostly a 400 800 meter
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  Runner. I did some distance once in a
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  while they needed me to try to get points in a smaller meet.
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  I did some jumps once in a while.
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  They need me to get some points in a smaller meet very much
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  encourage my teammates. I think maybe that's kind of
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  where coaching came in to that extent that I have.
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  It's really like just I could observe what they were doing.
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  I could see how the practice schedule was working.
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  I could see how they put people in certain events and how they
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  put, you know, they put relays in certain events.
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  So that could I really understood where we were getting
• 18:45
  points from? And I think it has helped me,
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  establish the Strategic mindset that I carry forth as a coach.
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  I think I do a really great job creating finding points and
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  creating strategy that can make our teams do the best they can
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  you know where others might. Not see that, you know.
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  So yeah, I'm here. I want to put a pin in.
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  That is something you said earlier, when it asked a
• 19:08
  question about, but I do want to talk about that strategic side
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  of coaching's at that is interesting.
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  Earlier, you said, you know, you had two great coaches.
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  That at the time, you couldn't really see like, wow, pretty
• 19:23
  lucky. And I'm curious because I've
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  heard that a lot. And I wonder do you think that's
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  because Maybe there's two, maybe there's a third way, you're
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  going to put it here. There's two things I think about
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  one is you don't know? Because we hear that quite
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  often, not only with your own coaches, but with other things,
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  like I didn't know how, how, how good I had it on this XYZ team,
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  or at this job at cetera, is it? Because when you're in the
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  moment, you don't necessarily have something to compare it to.
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  So it's just, it is what it is. That's the standard.
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  That means it's not high. It's not low it just, it's your
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  baseline or Or is it because, you know, the have Peaks you
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  have to have valleys to have good, you have to have bad to
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  have happy, if that's sad. So do you not know how good or
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  happy or great? You have it until you go
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  somewhere else and not have it as good.
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  And so then again, because then it's comparison.
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  Are you heard of suffering by comparisons?
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  But maybe this is where we don't know what we have until
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  comparisons. I'm just curious your take on,
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  you know, kind of now hindsight 20/20, you're looking back in.
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  You're like, man. Seems like you had a great
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  experience. It doesn't seem like, you were,
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  like flippant in your experience during high school, but you
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  certainly your face lit up when you're like, man.
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  Now that I look back, didn't realize it at the time, but boy,
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  did I have some great coaches and probably teammates were in
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  that as well? What do you think that reason is
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  there, bill? I think both of those things
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  that you said, you know, for sure and then as you go through
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  life and, you know, experienced the ups and downs of life
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  itself. You look back.
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  And you just Realize, you know, I'm grateful.
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  You can be to the people who added something valuable to your
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  life. And both those men added
• 21:06
  something valuable valuable to my life that I haven't really
• 21:10
  realized it until I would say probably the last five years or
• 21:13
  so. Of really looking back, I think
• 21:16
  prop maybe even sense covid or a little before but certainly then
• 21:19
  I had plenty of time to you know reflect on where I've come on
• 21:23
  this journey and those two guys were a big part of it, you know?
• 21:28
  And to the point where I reached back out to them and connected
• 21:31
  with each of them. And so you know, coach Stricker
• 21:34
  and Coach Cunningham, both follow my posts on Facebook,
• 21:37
  they often reach out to me and ask me or congratulate me on,
• 21:40
  you know, our my athletes. And we've regenerated a really
• 21:44
  strong relationship that I think we've always had, you know, but
• 21:47
  I have more respect for those two men, you know than other
• 21:52
  coaches and I, you know, I did play basketball in high school
• 21:55
  for a couple years as we didn't have an indoor track team.
• 21:59
  In the level of coaching that I experienced, there was just the
• 22:04
  opposite. Hmm, which is going to be really
• 22:06
  unique and you're going to because when I tell you, when I
• 22:10
  first got into coaching I got into coach basketball, I didn't
• 22:13
  get the jumping on the track. Whatever started.
• 22:16
  Well one of the explore that but now I want to go back.
• 22:18
  So put a pin in that. I'm going to go back to my other
• 22:20
  pin. This is how the mind, my mind
• 22:22
  works. Anyway, I just like pause there
• 22:24
  come back here, sometimes I forget to come back though.
• 22:28
  You talked about the strategy of coaching for track and field.
• 22:31
  Oh that's super interesting. Especially in light of something
• 22:35
  that happened this past weekend. Or when you're listening to this
• 22:38
  maybe last weekend at the NCAA division, one championships and
• 22:42
  again always easy to have 20/20 hindsight, right?
• 22:47
  Also very easy to armchair which we call armchair quarterback for
• 22:51
  football. We need to term for, for track,
• 22:53
  coaching armchair real, a coach, or something, I don't know.
• 22:57
  Because you do it. It's interesting to talk about
• 22:59
  the strategy of coaching because there's kind of there's several
• 23:02
  different levels. That one is the strategy of how
• 23:04
  you coach your you know your athletes, whatever events and
• 23:08
  how you structure it. Making sure that they're peaking
• 23:10
  at the right time things like that and then to your point
• 23:13
  exactly what you said there. Well, how do you put people for
• 23:17
  a meet when we're going to score meets score points at conference
• 23:21
  or Nationals? Are sectionals, you know, who do
• 23:23
  you put in where? Who do you not put in there?
• 23:25
  Who do you try to get an extra point out of this way?
• 23:27
  Etcetera? And You know, that came to light
• 23:30
  this weekend with super stud athlete Britain Wilson from
• 23:34
  Arkansas. Now, Chris Johnson coaches, her
• 23:37
  Gil podcast Alum and I and has, I mean, he's won national
• 23:41
  titles. He's had many many, great
• 23:43
  people, etc, etc, and Britain. Maybe didn't perform in the
• 23:48
  finals, as well as maybe other people would have.
• 23:51
  Thought she was the clear stud in the form of hurdles and 400
• 23:54
  but there was like, I don't know, 27 minutes which I'm sure
• 23:57
  feels like Minutes in between a quarter and the quarter hurdles.
• 24:00
  And I think she finished like 2nd and 7th.
• 24:03
  First of all, let's just take off the table that she failed.
• 24:07
  She was second in the nation in the 400 to an unbelievable.
• 24:11
  The Texas girl ran, holy cow and then she was, I think seventh if
• 24:15
  I got that right in the fauna hurdles, All-American she
• 24:18
  finished seventh in an unbelievable feel.
• 24:20
  So we're going to take off that table.
• 24:22
  I kind of like that. There is like this discussion
• 24:25
  this controversy if you will on the Media sphere about it
• 24:30
  because that means track is important.
• 24:31
  I got like, I love when there's controversy about the Bowerman.
• 24:34
  It's like oh it's important. Like people like people are like
• 24:37
  who cares, who they give it away to, you know, it's important.
• 24:40
  People aren't like, who cares what Britain did?
• 24:42
  Because it's important, I don't like any of the negativity
• 24:45
  that's coming from this discussion.
• 24:47
  But I love this topic about, you know, Arkansas could have not
• 24:52
  put her in there and also no one knows that what conversation
• 24:56
  occurred between coach and athlete by the The way app we
• 24:59
  could have been a hundred percent a month.
• 25:00
  I'm sure of it to be honest with you, she was 100% on board.
• 25:05
  I don't know if I really have a question here bill, but I do
• 25:08
  like pointing out that coaching is not just the athlete.
• 25:11
  And how do I get him or her to perform?
• 25:13
  It is also a conference and National meets of all how do we
• 25:17
  maximize for the team? All these different people?
• 25:20
  What relay legs do they run? Etc.
• 25:23
  So I'm gonna do anything that's about.
• 25:26
  I thought I had a question but you don't.
• 25:27
  Yeah. Well I I think when we look at
• 25:29
  strategy as a whole, particularly, when you go into a
• 25:31
  larger meats and you're trying to acquire a team championship,
• 25:35
  first of all, coaches, don't have a crystal ball, right?
• 25:37
  When we took these jobs, no one gave us a crystal ball.
• 25:40
  We don't know what's going to happen, but we have to go on our
• 25:43
  intuition. We do have to communicate with
• 25:45
  her athlete. I'm sure they communicated they
• 25:47
  had to or they you know they've got a sign off on it you know.
• 25:52
  Right. And you know what's the
• 25:55
  objective at that time as a you know you've got a world-class
• 25:58
  Class athlete who's going to get so many personal accolades
• 26:01
  throughout their career. You know, is that the focus or
• 26:06
  is the focus? You know is the focus trying to
• 26:11
  attain another team championship and with that comes some
• 26:14
  sacrifice and as a coach also you realized that you know, okay
• 26:20
  with 30 minutes between events, you know there's going to be
• 26:23
  some compromise in performance. You just know that.
• 26:26
  And so is that cop, are you I cannot risk that compromise
• 26:29
  enough to understand that. All right, I might lose some
• 26:34
  points here, but I'm going to gain them here, you know.
• 26:36
  So so cumulatively I'm gaining points because that's ultimately
• 26:40
  what you're trying to do, you know?
• 26:42
  And it is so hard number one to get to Nationals at any level.
• 26:48
  I really discovered that during my Collegiate experiences as
• 26:51
  coach. It's so hard.
• 26:53
  You coach Elite athletes at your level and still so hard.
• 26:58
  Just to get there, you know, so like you were saying, there's
• 27:01
  nothing to be ashamed about how that and how that went down.
• 27:04
  And, you know, it just sounds like to me that that they put
• 27:07
  the team first. And that's, you know, that's
• 27:10
  Accolade someone amongst itself. That's the mindset that's going
• 27:13
  to bring this next level of, you know, success and for them to
• 27:18
  know. Yeah.
• 27:19
  And you know you have this whole discussion and by the way this
• 27:21
  discussion is for like this percentage of the entire
• 27:24
  coaching body, with our sport, there's always talk of like, oh
• 27:29
  Are you going to go to XYZ University and burnout for your
• 27:32
  pro career? I've never heard that
• 27:34
  discussion, amongst college, baseball teams football, teams
• 27:37
  Etc. Who also have, you know, Pro
• 27:39
  aspirations among them. But in track, we seem to have
• 27:43
  this and it's weird. We haven't for college like, oh
• 27:47
  you go, they're going to run you in five events every meat or
• 27:50
  five events every conference and Nationals and all this stuff.
• 27:53
  But I don't know that. I hear that same thing with our
• 27:56
  young'uns in age group track, In.
• 27:58
  Oh wait, we're running on five events and you know, I don't
• 28:01
  know, I just feels like it'd be more harmful in the youth group
• 28:04
  than the, you know, 18 to 22 year old group, okay?
• 28:08
  Hey Bill, that was awesome discussion, but let's get back
• 28:11
  on track with you here, you dropped a little nugget there
• 28:14
  because the next step is typically.
• 28:16
  Okay, so we're, you know, do you go to school, where to coaching
• 28:18
  start coming into and you drop the Nugget that you actually got
• 28:20
  into coaching for basketball first, tell me more how I did
• 28:24
  totally by accident when I, when I left When I left high school,
• 28:30
  I went to Cortland State University and Central New York.
• 28:35
  And I went on as a walk-on for their cross-country program.
• 28:38
  Nobody wanted no one record to me at all and I was a solid
• 28:41
  Runner is running around 17 minutes for 5K.
• 28:44
  You know, it was like, second or third on my team and we were a
• 28:47
  solid team. We went undefeated my senior
• 28:49
  year and we were good for high school team, but I never was
• 28:53
  recruited for anything. But I went to, I went to
• 28:55
  Cortland state to be a teacher And I walked on and I was like
• 29:01
  you know nobody knew me the coach put me you know I was like
• 29:06
  the he put all the walk-ins and groups of like three or four for
• 29:10
  training and didn't acknowledge me at all in any way and you
• 29:14
  know, he's just and it it it fired me up to want to be the
• 29:19
  best I can. So I worked super hard and when
• 29:21
  I finished my freshman year, I was running third on the team.
• 29:24
  I came in like 23rd, like I was beating souvenirs and fifty or
• 29:28
  Grads, you know, grad students and stuff because I just was so
• 29:34
  I've just been so inspired to want to be noticed, I guess.
• 29:38
  So anyway, my mindset was still in trying to be the best that I
• 29:42
  could be. Unfortunately or maybe it's not
• 29:46
  fortunate because I wouldn't, I guess the outcome is.
• 29:48
  I would never, I never regret it but what happened was when I was
• 29:52
  19 years old, I found out was going to be a dad and so you
• 29:58
  know, I had a choice, my parents were saying, listen, you got to
• 30:00
  finish college, will help you get through it and it's like I
• 30:04
  can't do that to you guys. Like I took that, you know,
• 30:08
  responsibility upon myself and this happened so I dropped out
• 30:14
  of I've dropped out of college and I joined the military, I
• 30:17
  joined the Army and went when active duty Army, you know,
• 30:23
  first of all why did you go in to become a teacher mom or dad
• 30:27
  teachers and their family? No no either with teaching I
• 30:31
  think I just you know, both coach Stricker and put coach
• 30:35
  Cunningham were teachers. Yeah some other great teachers,
• 30:38
  I think empowering others and just helping others and I think
• 30:41
  I just have a servant's heart breaks them Getting and so I
• 30:46
  would just want to be a teacher, I loved history.
• 30:47
  So, I was going to be a history teacher and I think that's, I
• 30:52
  mean, that was it. That's what I am.
• 30:53
  Then I wanted to, you know, kind of like fall in line go and
• 30:56
  teach at at a high school, some place in coach, and that was my
• 31:00
  mindset. So, how did in obviously, you
• 31:04
  know, having a child changes, everything, you know, I don't
• 31:07
  think, you know, that until you have a child sitting with, to my
• 31:11
  own, I'm like, Oh my eye, you know, No, I didn't have my first
• 31:15
  kid, tells 30-something, I can't imagine 19 years old, for crying
• 31:18
  out loud. How does that get?
• 31:21
  I'm gonna use the word derailed, but to your point of like, you
• 31:24
  know, things happen for a reason and you know, you are where you
• 31:27
  are today because of this, and that's a positive thing.
• 31:30
  So you join the military, what branch?
• 31:32
  So I went in the Army. Yeah.
• 31:34
  And the Army was I was interested in the in the Army.
• 31:39
  My dad served in the Army. I think.
• 31:41
  Probably the reason why he was actually going to go go and be a
• 31:44
  music teacher and he didn't go because of the draft.
• 31:48
  So he went in 59, he actually volunteered his draft, he went
• 31:52
  in 59 and 261 And there was another reason I my summer job
• 31:59
  was I played at Fort Ticonderoga Revolutionary War Fort.
• 32:04
  They had a Fife and Drum Corps there.
• 32:07
  And so, my summer job was playing Fife and bugle in that
• 32:11
  Fife and Drum Corps, and giving tours, and then firing off
• 32:14
  artillery and muskets the best stinkin high school boy.
• 32:19
  Summer job, you can ask for it was awesome.
• 32:22
  Wow. But my boss was National Guard,
• 32:28
  Captain they, his name is Wayne Morgan and he was a commander
• 32:33
  for the Nash. For a reserve, Special Forces
• 32:37
  Unit, the Green Beret for but a reserve unit, I think my
• 32:42
  interest in serving in the military in the Army as an
• 32:46
  option, came from him and my relation experience with him and
• 32:52
  just hearing you know how he contributed In that way, another
• 32:57
  outstanding impressionable leader in my life.
• 33:01
  So I went in the Army and I was originally going to go into play
• 33:04
  a part of the presidential, escort called The Old Guard, the
• 33:07
  3rd Infantry, which is a five drunk or aye.
• 33:10
  Aye, Audition made the audition was going to go and play for
• 33:16
  them, but then I realized what if I want to stay for 20 years,
• 33:22
  what if this is something that I want to stay in or what if this
• 33:26
  is something that I just want to do my four years and get out
• 33:29
  pursue something else. And so going in as an inventory
• 33:33
  men you know playing Fife and bugle and and you know in a
• 33:38
  presidential escort, Detachment probably wasn't going to land
• 33:41
  me. A sustainable position going
• 33:43
  forward to support my family. So I decided to go into the
• 33:47
  medical field and I became what was called an operating room
• 33:50
  specialist, which is a surgical technician and assistant.
• 33:54
  And, and I was always interested in that in medicine to.
• 33:59
  I was a student athletic trainer in high school, I took some
• 34:04
  courses that they offered and learned how to do basic taping
• 34:07
  and some of the things that's very much and I just loved
• 34:09
  Sports in any, you know, any aspect I could be All that.
• 34:12
  I'm so so I joined the army and I know there are some
• 34:20
  availability of options for track and field in the Army but
• 34:23
  is track and field. Just pause.
• 34:25
  Now at this point. No well no, not really because
• 34:30
  running is a part of the everyday life in the military,
• 34:33
  the physical fitness element that you do every day.
• 34:36
  There's always going to running component to it.
• 34:37
  So I was able to continue running and I loved it a couple
• 34:40
  of years into To my couple of years into my experience in the
• 34:46
  Army, I was stationed at Fort Bragg in North Carolina.
• 34:52
  They they they had a cross-country, they started
• 34:56
  cross-country all Army cross-country program, where
• 34:59
  they wanted to have an all Army championships from all army
• 35:03
  bases across. They wanted to get the best
• 35:05
  Runners from each base to the Championships and then let them
• 35:09
  duke it out, you know, and this was part of their I think
• 35:13
  world-class development program that they have and so running
• 35:17
  in, you know, segueing into cross country.
• 35:21
  They did it according to unit and then it was like a
• 35:25
  tournament. Almost the first competition was
• 35:27
  by unit, so I gathered up five or six of other folks, in my
• 35:32
  unit who like to run and I essentially coached our
• 35:35
  cross-country team at the unit level, which is a field
• 35:39
  hospital. So we ran a lot and I did pretty
• 35:42
  well with that. At Fort Bragg, they go from unit
• 35:48
  level, then they go Brigade, level then go division level.
• 35:51
  So there's like three different proprietary different.
• 35:53
  You have to finish in the cert. You have to finish in the top
• 35:56
  percentage in order to keep going and then if you're in the
• 35:58
  top I think 30 then you go to all Army.
• 36:02
  Well they start with 12,000 Runners thousand.
• 36:07
  I was going to ask what kind of number meet somebody and it
• 36:09
  that's 12,000 at Fort Bragg. Okay so They have all these many
• 36:15
  Meats, all over the place than the winners come and then they,
• 36:17
  you know, just kind of like filter them down.
• 36:20
  So, you know, to make a long story, a little longer, I
• 36:24
  actually end up qualifying for all Army, but I kept, I kept
• 36:29
  running in that regard and I think I did Sir, I mean, kind of
• 36:32
  as an athlete coach. I wasn't, you know, just more of
• 36:35
  a organizer than I felt. Like I was a coach but that's
• 36:38
  really kind. I think planted the seed there
• 36:41
  and then I tried out for their track team.
• 36:44
  Man, that quality of athletes at that place was unbelievable.
• 36:50
  I could not hang with them on the track, put me on a
• 36:54
  cross-country course. Work kind of levels the playing
• 36:56
  field. There's guys that were running
• 36:58
  workouts that were faster than my PR.
• 37:01
  Wow, you have to like run a PR every day just to keep up with
• 37:04
  them. It's like, I could not hang with
• 37:06
  their track program, so I just stayed running.
• 37:08
  Cross-country, stay with cross-country and road racing.
• 37:11
  I got a little bit in the triathlon.
• 37:14
  Towards the end and I actually ended up expanding on cycling
• 37:20
  more and up racing in the u.s. cycling Federation for a little
• 37:25
  while. Yeah, just love the competition.
• 37:29
  Right? I just loved it and
• 37:30
  cross-country. 400 was like my favorite event because it was
• 37:34
  more like, well, if you're going to beat me back to her pretty
• 37:37
  hard to beat me, so it was more like, how much, how much pain
• 37:40
  can I inflict on my opponent? Knock them down, you know, so
• 37:43
  that I can, you know, try to beat them, so that that was the
• 37:47
  same in cycling, it's the same, you know, in some other things.
• 37:49
  So that's why I think, I just love those Sports.
• 37:52
  So, So that's that's but when I got out of the army and decided
• 37:57
  to leave the active duty, Army, and stayed reserves, and how
• 38:03
  long were you active duty? I was active duty for four years
• 38:06
  and that stint. Okay, I went back active duty
• 38:09
  towards the end of my career when I got deployed to Iraq.
• 38:13
  Okay. Yeah, so for years, then I came
• 38:16
  off ended up ended up getting remarried, you know?
• 38:23
  You get married tried life, so young and grow apart things
• 38:27
  happen, never lost connection with my children, and that's all
• 38:30
  that really mattered, you know? We're we and and met my current
• 38:37
  wife who and now we've been together almost 33 years.
• 38:39
  So at one point between the two of us, we raised five children.
• 38:45
  So we heard this, you know, for kids and we had one of our own
• 38:49
  anyway. One day the Sun the This is our
• 38:53
  first child. Is the sun.
• 38:55
  The sun. That of the story.
• 38:59
  He was in fourth grade. At the time we were, we were
• 39:04
  then living in Vermont. I, we put him in a wreck
• 39:08
  basketball league just for some structure.
• 39:12
  I mean, he's a four-year-old, high-energy kid, little bit of
• 39:16
  structure, maybe learn some skills.
• 39:18
  You know, he seemed interested in playing basketball.
• 39:20
  I liked basketball, you know, when I was growing up.
• 39:24
  And so so yeah, why don't you know, we try it.
• 39:26
  So you enter them in into into a Rec program.
• 39:30
  One day I stopped by bye. Just to see how things were
• 39:34
  going, a little early from pick up normal.
• 39:36
  Pick up time. So, I poked my head in the gym
• 39:39
  and it was, it was chaos. Yeah, there was the program was
• 39:45
  supposed to have been run by an all well-intended community
• 39:50
  service by some college athletes.
• 39:53
  Some college kids. I don't know if they were
• 39:55
  athletes actually, and they couldn't handle, the couldn't
• 39:59
  handle it, and it got out of hand and turn into just kind of
• 40:02
  play time. And when I looked over and saw
• 40:05
  one of the one of the boys, not my son literally climbing up and
• 40:10
  on top of the support bracket of the basketball rim and trying to
• 40:16
  shimmy up the pole to get to the rafters of the gymnasium.
• 40:22
  I I was like, I this is not what I signed our son out for so I
• 40:28
  went to the rec director to just talk to him about, you know, you
• 40:32
  know what's going. Hang on, you know, and he says,
• 40:33
  well, I dunno but I don't have any other choice.
• 40:36
  There's nobody else who will take the program over so I said
• 40:39
  I'll do it, I'll take the program over first of all open
• 40:43
  Bravo to you because plenty of people and we use the complain
• 40:47
  word. I'm not that you know what you
• 40:48
  described there doesn't seem like complaint seems like safety
• 40:51
  first of all yes but plenty of people will complain but then by
• 40:56
  well I don't want it, you know. I just wanted you to do it, you
• 40:59
  know. So for you to do that and then
• 41:00
  say okay fine. Then I'll take it I'll take it
• 41:02
  over. I'll lead here.
• 41:03
  That's Bravo that's that's amazing.
• 41:05
  I love that. Yeah so I took a took over a
• 41:07
  program of 45, third and fourth grade boys, who s Bravo because
• 41:13
  my kids grew up through the tee ball and basketball.
• 41:17
  I can't do it. And so I made sure that since I
• 41:22
  will, I will not be that Dad that will volunteer to coach a
• 41:25
  bunch of third, fourth fifth, whatever, right?
• 41:28
  Just can't, I can't do it. So after every practice, and
• 41:30
  every game, I go up to the coach I'm like, hey, thank you, thank
• 41:33
  God bless you because I can't do this.
• 41:36
  Thank you for doing it. How did you?
• 41:39
  I mean it's you know. What's that term herding cats?
• 41:42
  It's like herding feral cats. It was I broke it down.
• 41:46
  I broke it down into four teams of 15 are three teams of 15.
• 41:51
  They each had their own identity.
• 41:53
  I tried to have level abilities. And added structure and
• 42:00
  expectations and discipline and created a program for them that
• 42:05
  they could get something out of, and, you know, created a
• 42:10
  schedule for them. And then at the end of the year,
• 42:12
  we made an All-Star team and we chose basically five kids from
• 42:16
  each Squad and then we went to kind of a local a a you type
• 42:21
  tournament with those kids and they did really well and winning
• 42:25
  the whole thing and it was in That moment though, I could see
• 42:30
  the personal growth in the change, in mind.
• 42:31
  The parents who said, I you know, who would come and say,
• 42:35
  Johnny has grown so much in a so much better behaved at home
• 42:40
  because of this, right? Been trying to say this forever
• 42:43
  but you say it once and he doesn't I said, well, it's
• 42:47
  resonating with him because it's a different voice, but it's also
• 42:51
  staying with him because you've said it for so much.
• 42:53
  So we're kind of a team here, you know?
• 42:56
  And that's You know, I've heard that a thousand times if I heard
• 43:00
  it once from parents throughout my career and I so I recognize
• 43:05
  what I brought to them was valuable life lessons.
• 43:08
  And from that point it was like, I was hooked, I was hooked on
• 43:11
  it. The very next year, they have
• 43:14
  worked in my mouth. I was going to ask you is this
• 43:17
  the setting of The Hook. You know, there's nothing in
• 43:19
  here, but there's a little bit of like it has to like, you
• 43:21
  know, if you fishermen it has to actually catch, is this like the
• 43:25
  the first of like, oh, wait a minute.
• 43:28
  See. This is why I was put on this
• 43:30
  Earth, yes, for sure. And the very next year, I was
• 43:34
  hired as a high school coach to coach in the varsity, are the
• 43:38
  junior varsity levels to build players up for their varsity
• 43:41
  teams. That's so the very next year.
• 43:43
  And in what I learned early to was I never focused on the X's
• 43:47
  and O's, of course, they did my research on on it, but what I
• 43:50
  focused on was, what makes A successful coach like who do I
• 43:57
  want to? You know, I want to understand
• 43:59
  what they're more people's mindsets are, what are the
• 44:01
  commonalities between of successful coaches?
• 44:06
  And, you know, I looked up right away.
• 44:09
  There was there's three guys that I studied I studied them
• 44:13
  and that was my chefs key. John Wooden and Rick Pitino.
• 44:20
  Now, we can argue Rick Pitino now knowing what we know and his
• 44:24
  journey, but back, then they all had books out.
• 44:26
  And I read them because we didn't have much for internet in
• 44:29
  those days. Back in the 90s early 90s, and
• 44:34
  they all had books out should chesky was leading with the
• 44:39
  heart pitino's was success is a choice.
• 44:43
  John wooden's had several books out the one, I just wrote that.
• 44:46
  I Red was just one called wooden and it had a lot of his
• 44:49
  philosophies, his Pyramid of Success.
• 44:52
  And, you know, all the stuff that, you know, is kind of all
• 44:55
  like Anyone who studies coaching knows, you knows about John
• 44:59
  Wooden. So do we have the equivalent and
• 45:01
  track world? Because, you know, we talk about
• 45:03
  leaders in a lot of those three gentlemen, you just mentioned
• 45:07
  and their books. Are, you know, if I asked 100
• 45:10
  people to list 10 leadership, books, invariably, a half of
• 45:13
  them are going to pick one of these people are one of their
• 45:16
  books. But, you know, being such a
• 45:17
  track coach Advocate as I am, you know, I think about like,
• 45:21
  wait a minute, I could name a hundred coaches on track.
• 45:24
  Coaches that Well, I'd like to know their philosophy but I
• 45:27
  don't know that we don't know that we have that, I don't know
• 45:29
  that we have the. I'm trying to think some of the
• 45:32
  the Legacy coaches, you know, aren't Venegas or humble Elliot,
• 45:38
  maybe you jumbo. There's a good one.
• 45:41
  I'm trying to think of the coach out in UCLA gym.
• 45:44
  Bush a gym Bush or something. You know, I mean like Legacy,
• 45:47
  you know, Brooks Johnson and George Williams would be in
• 45:51
  there as well. Gil podcast the lumps.
• 45:53
  I don't know that I can't think of a Your book of leadership
• 45:57
  that was written by. I'm sure there's got to be
• 46:00
  something missing. I'm sure but I can't think of
• 46:02
  like oh you don't know about leadership read this book, you
• 46:05
  know, but I think I don't know if there really is, to be honest
• 46:08
  at that level. That's a Miss.
• 46:09
  That's a myth it is. I've said this before, I am
• 46:13
  convinced because of the leadership of track and field
• 46:17
  coach has that they could take over a sport that they know
• 46:21
  nothing about the X's and O's and that team would be very
• 46:24
  successful. I use the example I don't know
• 46:26
  why it came to me but I use JB Jerry baltus at Grand Valley
• 46:28
  State and I go, you know, I'm convinced that Jerry baltus was
• 46:32
  put in charge of a hockey team and I don't know if Jerry Jimmy
• 46:36
  knows or loves hockey or not but knows none of the X's and O's I
• 46:39
  guaranteed because of how he structures things, how he words
• 46:43
  things, the things that he focuses on that team would get
• 46:46
  better because of his leadership, not because of his
• 46:51
  X's and O's I'm convinced my Calaway, you put my call away in
• 46:55
  charge of Football team. I don't know if he knows a
• 46:57
  single Crossing path to X block, but I guarantee you that
• 47:02
  football team would become much, much better because of the
• 47:05
  people, he hires, and the way he motivates and inspires young
• 47:10
  people. We need more.
• 47:12
  So there's a challenge. If you're listening to this, we
• 47:13
  need more of the leadership and philosophy of these coaches that
• 47:18
  are out there. We get, you know, we have our
• 47:20
  own John wooden's, we have our own coach.
• 47:22
  K's I won't compare anybody to fix Latino.
• 47:26
  We probably have some of those too unfortunately, but but we
• 47:28
  have enough great great leaders in this profession of coaching
• 47:32
  track and field. That, you know, we've got to
• 47:36
  have their we got to have their philosophies on paper for future
• 47:40
  generations. For sure has made me.
• 47:42
  Think about that, we mentioned those three.
• 47:43
  Yeah, I totally agree with that and there's so there are so many
• 47:46
  people out there. I mean, that's the confidence.
• 47:48
  I feel like, I think that's why, you know, you can change my
• 47:51
  disciplines and where I'm coaching and I do well in every
• 47:54
  discipline have a And every discipline, whether at the state
• 47:57
  conference, you know, level of all, Americans, whatever, you
• 48:01
  know. It's because I can, you know, I
• 48:03
  apply the same principles and then just kind of, you know,
• 48:07
  learn the X's and O's and, you know, the techniques as I go and
• 48:12
  kind of look like him. Let's learn more about that.
• 48:14
  Where do we get back? What is track?
• 48:15
  You're doing bad. So I started basketball the very
• 48:18
  same year, you know, I never left track.
• 48:20
  I always I was still running and cycling competitively so I
• 48:24
  jumped right in. I How'd you know I jumped right
• 48:26
  in and started junior hike, Junior High track and and you
• 48:31
  know stayed busy with that. So that kind of was always I was
• 48:37
  always there, never went away, I've always coached track and
• 48:39
  field and at some point. Now, I coached basketball for 13
• 48:45
  years and I finally got a varsity team in my mind.
• 48:48
  I thought I was going to advance into a college level program and
• 48:54
  be a college-level coach. I really like the basketball
• 48:57
  basketball. Yeah, yeah.
• 48:59
  But I was still coaching track at the same time.
• 49:02
  And then my 13th year right after I get back from Iraq, I
• 49:07
  took over a very lowly program kindness.
• 49:10
  I started turning it around but then I really felt such I really
• 49:16
  felt such disdain from the process.
• 49:20
  So Cutthroat that and honestly, you know, the parents brought
• 49:26
  such negativity that disrupted the kids development as as
• 49:32
  People and as athletes that was just very disheartening to me
• 49:35
  and I decided at that point that I'm not going to be a dual sport
• 49:39
  coach anymore and I decided to go with the sport by always
• 49:42
  treated me, right? And at that point I just went
• 49:46
  all-in for track and cross-country.
• 49:48
  I'm glad you brought up that your experience there with
• 49:51
  basketball. You know what I believe is that
• 49:54
  we put the past on this pedestal.
• 49:56
  We think the pass was all this, just great amazing Perfection
• 50:00
  and that today's Older tomorrow's world like, you know,
• 50:04
  so for basketball and other sports, we hear about, you know,
• 50:07
  oh, parents today. Oh kids today, you know, where
• 50:13
  they're attacking officials today?
• 50:16
  That has been going on for a long time.
• 50:19
  I think we're more visible with it today, because everybody has
• 50:22
  a camera and social media Council.
• 50:24
  We see every one of them. Actually, we don't even see all
• 50:27
  the everyone, that's the crazy part.
• 50:28
  So I'm glad you brought that up because I just, you know, I just
• 50:31
  don't like this. This automatic like, oh, the
• 50:33
  past was great. I don't think it was.
• 50:35
  I think it happened quite often parents were still parents back.
• 50:38
  Then, you know, we like to think today, like, oh, what's College
• 50:42
  scholarships and stuff, the parents are more, you know,
• 50:45
  boisterous. Mmm.
• 50:46
  I'm pretty sure they were pretty competitive and overly
• 50:49
  competitive back in the day as well.
• 50:51
  So I appreciate you pointing out that experience.
• 50:53
  Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I went, I went all in on
• 50:55
  track, you know. I started an age when Junior
• 51:00
  Olympic program for the kids, And the you know, in junior,
• 51:04
  high built that program and the core of that program, ended up
• 51:08
  being the athletes who I took over at a high school for at a
• 51:12
  varsity. Level became my first Fargo,
• 51:15
  High School head coaching position.
• 51:17
  I took this program over there was 19 athletes between boys and
• 51:21
  girls. Most of them were like chess
• 51:24
  playing with potheads basically, because there was not a culture
• 51:27
  for track at that school and built that programs that That's
• 51:32
  what I do so well, as I build programs and I think I got that
• 51:35
  from the military of just, you know, turning turning something
• 51:40
  into in from nothing, you know, into, you know, into a
• 51:44
  high-performance organization. So When I left there, eight
• 51:50
  years later, we had 75 kids on the team had to take two buses,
• 51:53
  right? And we're always one of the top
• 51:55
  three ranked in the state. So, and it was just a really
• 52:00
  great moment of growth and learning on how to be a track
• 52:06
  coach. And I was just had the, I guess
• 52:11
  this the autonomy to learn and grow kind of on my own, but I
• 52:15
  had strong organizational principles and I think I Those
• 52:18
  in just from my military and Military leadership experiences
• 52:22
  and just apply them as a track coach.
• 52:25
  So it's summer. And so a lot of jobs are going
• 52:28
  to be changing here, and I don't mean, just on the college side.
• 52:30
  There's teachers that are going to go and teach at another
• 52:32
  district and they're going to be either.
• 52:34
  Become the first time track coach or change programs for the
• 52:37
  first time. And invariably someone's going
• 52:40
  to come into that same situation that you just described of like,
• 52:44
  oh man, I'm a track full-time person.
• 52:47
  I want to build a permanent. Oh Graham.
• 52:48
  And I go to the school and there is no program or you know the
• 52:52
  culture the program. I'm gonna put you on the spot
• 52:54
  here. Built what would you know using
• 52:56
  your experience here? Let's leverage that a little
• 52:58
  bit. What are like the top three
• 53:01
  things that you have to do in that you did in may be
• 53:04
  specifically in that example but you've done in other places as
• 53:06
  well. Top three things that you've got
• 53:08
  to do to change a track program that is, you know, participatory
• 53:14
  at best into to busload. Top three type of, you know, so
• 53:20
  lots of participation more kids and at a much higher level kind
• 53:25
  of stalling to give you some time to be thinking your bill.
• 53:27
  But what do you think of the is just top three things?
• 53:29
  Someone, if you're going to change a program around, what
• 53:32
  are the three things that you think they should be focusing
• 53:34
  on? I think, I think the first thing
• 53:38
  is that you have to I think establish a connection with it
• 53:42
  with the kids in some way. And a lot of that will come by,
• 53:48
  finding a commonality of what is their purpose.
• 53:51
  What is the reason why they do track in the first place and
• 53:55
  then create a vision what you want this program to look like
• 54:01
  they have to be in kind of involved with that?
• 54:05
  More times than not and track. What I found is that when you're
• 54:08
  taking over a program or working with kids, is that, there's
• 54:12
  there is another sport that always has priority, right?
• 54:15
  It's basketball. It's football, it's whatever,
• 54:18
  you know, it's soccer, doesn't matter what it is, but the kids
• 54:22
  don't feel validated. Like those athletes seem to be
• 54:25
  at least, their perception, is that they are more valued than
• 54:30
  the runners are. Then the track athletes are So
• 54:33
  you kind of say, okay listen, how would you like to feel
• 54:37
  valued you know I can have set you into a program in and help
• 54:44
  you feel valued if you're willing to be a part of it and
• 54:48
  grow with it and understand you know?
• 54:50
  And so I think that's a you set that you set that vision of
• 54:55
  culture and what you're trying to achieve right from the
• 54:58
  beginning and then you have to kind of look at what you have
• 55:02
  for athletes. Or you know, find some hidden
• 55:06
  talents and others who don't think that they are jumpers or
• 55:09
  don't think they're distance Runners, they just think they're
• 55:12
  sprinters or whatever. The case might be, that's kind
• 55:15
  of one of the coaches coaching superpowers.
• 55:17
  I feel I have and that is, I call it seeing the invisible and
• 55:22
  so you have to be able to recognize talents, and kids, and
• 55:26
  recognize what their strengths are, you know, and you just
• 55:30
  build this community around them.
• 55:31
  And they start, you know, this Culture, helping them feel, you
• 55:36
  know, you're providing for them. Your your, they feel like they
• 55:42
  belong, they feel like, you know, that they're part of
• 55:44
  something that's important and it's happening and there, and
• 55:47
  after a while, they to start performing, you know, because
• 55:52
  they're getting something out of what they're putting into it.
• 55:54
  I always include into my coaching programs, not just
• 55:59
  progression in technique, but I see it as a very You this is
• 56:04
  probably the teacher in me that I never was right.
• 56:07
  This is a venue to teach important critical life lessons
• 56:11
  to prepare. These young people to be
• 56:16
  productive and successful human beings in this very complex
• 56:21
  world. And I've always felt that way,
• 56:23
  even coaching third and fourth graders, I can make them better
• 56:26
  people because they are part of my life and I'm better because
• 56:30
  they're part of mine, you know, and and so that Has always been
• 56:33
  the case at the high school level can be a little more you
• 56:37
  know the higher level and now at the college level it's really at
• 56:41
  a high level of how you can talk to them about what this means,
• 56:44
  what this looks like. Anyway.
• 56:48
  I think so the three things create the common, the common
• 56:53
  good. Why are you doing this?
• 56:54
  Have the vision and then and then start, you know, see the
• 57:00
  invisible start building the team and then at all, Kind of
• 57:03
  comes together, you know and its own.
• 57:05
  So obviously that work you said through eight year, you started
• 57:08
  with 19 total kids now your two buses and read conference and
• 57:12
  regionals I mean that's got to make you feel good.
• 57:15
  That's got to feel, make the kids feel good.
• 57:16
  They're contributing to the greater good if you will the
• 57:19
  team atmosphere. That's awesome.
• 57:22
  I would say, probably over two-thirds of the school records
• 57:27
  belong to to the kids that I coach, those eight years and
• 57:31
  most of them still do. Yeah.
• 57:33
  Dad, do you id-1 athletes out of that program?
• 57:37
  You know, other college athletes, I had kids who go on
• 57:39
  to beat, you know, be successful in their lives.
• 57:42
  And, you know, that just really set a great precedent for me,
• 57:45
  but then Then I got orders to go to get it.
• 57:52
  I got deployed to Iraq. And example, why leave sometime
• 57:58
  always our choice isn't, it's not so that put that put a pause
• 58:02
  in it. I didn't leave High School right
• 58:04
  away so that put a pause into it.
• 58:06
  I would say about five years into it, put a pause into it, my
• 58:12
  assistants took over for the time that I was gone.
• 58:14
  I actually only missed one season for the two years that I
• 58:17
  was gone. I'm just the way it worked out.
• 58:24
  and, And then, you know, when I came back though, you know, you
• 58:30
  go to combat, you see the worst Humanity has to offer.
• 58:33
  And but I will tell you that as much as I have, I took You know,
• 58:40
  my military experience and my leadership experience in my
• 58:44
  organizational experience that I had as being part of the
• 58:48
  military. I brought my coaching experience
• 58:50
  with me when I got deployed and that was probably my best
• 58:56
  example of successful coaching that I've ever done was when I
• 58:59
  was deployed because I was, I was an Army medic, but I was in,
• 59:05
  I was put in charge of the medical that Battalion medical
• 59:10
  section, which was, which turned out to be 50 for combat Medics
• 59:14
  and and six office, medical officers doctors and PAs and
• 59:21
  other medical professionals. And so but they came from 10
• 59:27
  different states, they were of, you know, both men and women,
• 59:31
  every religious background, ethical background, you could
• 59:36
  think of Ages were from 18 to 54, you know, I had to pull this
• 59:43
  team together, we were going to what was called at the time by
• 59:47
  u.s. News & World Report as the most
• 59:49
  dangerous place on the planet. And that's where we were going.
• 59:53
  And we were spearheading the beginning of the liberation of
• 59:56
  the city of ramadi and in Iraq and these guys needed and gals
• 1:00:01
  needed to be ready to go. And so I applied a lot of my
• 1:00:06
  coaching theories. In progression into, you know,
• 1:00:11
  and you know, and work ethic and and all these, you know,
• 1:00:15
  principles into that. And you know, we kind of went in
• 1:00:19
  as this hodgepodge but prepared group of Medics and when we
• 1:00:25
  left, we were pretty renowned group of Medics and for the 13
• 1:00:33
  months that I was in Iraq. We did well over 5,000 medical
• 1:00:39
  missions. In 13 months.
• 1:00:42
  Yeah. And you know, our call sign was
• 1:00:48
  the voodoo Medics and I had a, I had a senior enlisted man from
• 1:00:54
  from we were attached to the Marine Corps.
• 1:00:56
  So we were, we were, you know, in the fight and the sergeant,
• 1:01:00
  major of the Marines came into my medic, medic station one day,
• 1:01:04
  and you see you Sergeant edson's like yeah, that's me.
• 1:01:06
  Sorry, major. He said, I heard something.
• 1:01:08
  I don't know if it's true. The voodoo Medics can't save
• 1:01:11
  anybody. No one's going to save you.
• 1:01:12
  Is that true? And it's like, yeah, that's
• 1:01:13
  pretty true. And it was, we had a high rate
• 1:01:17
  of survivability when we could get to them.
• 1:01:20
  We could we could get to patients, take care of them and
• 1:01:22
  evacuate them back to the trauma center faster than a helicopter.
• 1:01:25
  Good. So we turn them into, turn them
• 1:01:28
  into a kind of a badass team of, you know, medical Warriors.
• 1:01:32
  And that was, I think what I'm most satisfying coaching jobs I
• 1:01:35
  ever did with a group of creating a culture and, you
• 1:01:39
  know, That whole experience was, there was so profound to me that
• 1:01:46
  it made me want to learn more about, you know.
• 1:01:50
  I made a lot of really good leadership decisions but I
• 1:01:53
  didn't know why I made them and how it worked.
• 1:01:56
  So, when I got home, I decided, well, first of all, I got home
• 1:02:00
  and I was not the same person and I had post-traumatic stress,
• 1:02:06
  you know, I had other issues, you know, other issues that
• 1:02:09
  resulted from sir Being in an austere environment was not the
• 1:02:13
  same person. Coaching was the last thing
• 1:02:15
  coaching kids was the last thing I wanted to do actually was
• 1:02:18
  going to stop coaching and our youngest daughter.
• 1:02:21
  Who was going into 9th grade said, dad, will you please just
• 1:02:25
  coach the coach track one more year?
• 1:02:27
  Just one year, you've coached all my brothers and sisters?
• 1:02:32
  Can you please just coach me one year?
• 1:02:35
  And I was not a really good place at all, you know, I mean
• 1:02:39
  like many veterans that come back from serving in combat, you
• 1:02:43
  know you fight with suicide ideologies and you soup, you
• 1:02:47
  know, and other depression and anxieties.
• 1:02:49
  And I was no different the time and she asked me to do that and
• 1:02:53
  just because she asked me to do it.
• 1:02:55
  I said yes, I'll do it. And what turn from that was and
• 1:03:00
  I had also was on the verge of retiring and serve 23 years.
• 1:03:04
  It's just time to attire. And I lost my purpose of
• 1:03:09
  service. When I retire, didn't realize
• 1:03:11
  that. But agreeing to coach brought
• 1:03:15
  back, this sense of purpose, a sense of service.
• 1:03:18
  Literally this poor saved my life, Mike, it literally saved
• 1:03:23
  my life. I think my daughter for that for
• 1:03:26
  encouraged me to continue coaching and I mean I'm almost
• 1:03:30
  crying. I'm telling you this because
• 1:03:32
  it's so true, I love the sport. I'm so much to give back to it
• 1:03:36
  and I think that's I'll probably coach until I can't like
• 1:03:40
  physically can't anymore when you talk about going to war and
• 1:03:46
  thank God for myself and for everybody else, I have not ever
• 1:03:50
  had that experience, it put things, it puts things in
• 1:03:54
  perspective. I mean, you know, I have no
• 1:03:56
  greater love than for the coaching track and field body,
• 1:04:01
  but it pales in comparison to what you and the voodoo crew and
• 1:04:05
  hundreds and thousands of others that Were out there but and I
• 1:04:11
  don't want to, I don't want to necessarily equate it, but that
• 1:04:14
  story, you talk about with your daughter and obviously the the
• 1:04:19
  deep emotional connection, you have their say in the world that
• 1:04:21
  changed you that saved my life because I can I can never know
• 1:04:25
  what it feels like to come back from something like that.
• 1:04:27
  The things you've seen and done and had done, you know, no movie
• 1:04:32
  can accurately capture it. And you know, it's you're in the
• 1:04:35
  muck or you're not in the muck. To come back and have your
• 1:04:39
  daughter, you know, plead with you have like just one year,
• 1:04:43
  give me, you know, I want with my brothers and sisters had and
• 1:04:46
  then to hear you say, you know, that that was a turnaround for
• 1:04:49
  me that that saved my life, that shows you.
• 1:04:53
  I don't know. I want I want to say that shows
• 1:04:55
  you the power of track and field in the power of the coaching
• 1:04:57
  profession, but really it's the power of like hope and love and
• 1:05:02
  servitude. You know, that's really what you
• 1:05:04
  turned into my coaching your daughter's team.
• 1:05:07
  Like okay, now instead of myself I'm going to think and act for
• 1:05:12
  others. It is.
• 1:05:13
  And I learned a lot of profound lessons while I was serving in
• 1:05:17
  Iraq. And that's one of them was this,
• 1:05:19
  this power of purpose. This, you know, the sense of
• 1:05:23
  doing something for purpose for a reason, Beyond yourself.
• 1:05:28
  I always say it's not as a coach, it's not about you.
• 1:05:31
  It's not if you're doing it to, you know, rack up the, how many
• 1:05:35
  wins you can you know, championships you An win or or
• 1:05:38
  how many, you know, I can't tell you how many kids have Coach.
• 1:05:41
  I can't tell you how many champions I produce.
• 1:05:43
  I know a lot, you know, on their levels, but that's not why I do
• 1:05:48
  it. I do it to change lives and make
• 1:05:51
  a difference, you know, for them going forward.
• 1:05:53
  Prepare them for life course. I want them to be great track
• 1:05:56
  athletes. I want them to, that's always a
• 1:05:58
  part of it. So I don't use that as an
• 1:06:00
  excuse, not for them to be. You know, to be as good as they
• 1:06:04
  possibly can, you know? So, I ended up coaching my
• 1:06:08
  daughter for for all four years in high school.
• 1:06:10
  Who would that feel? Like, you know, you are
• 1:06:12
  obviously in a very low and I'm going to use the term bad.
• 1:06:19
  And you you correct me where I'm finding.
• 1:06:21
  He's bad part of life. What was it like that first week
• 1:06:26
  month of getting back in there? Working with young people and
• 1:06:29
  there's some there's some vitality and energy receivership
• 1:06:33
  from from kids like that as well.
• 1:06:35
  What was that? Like as you were In a low place.
• 1:06:38
  And this goes back to our comparison of like there is no
• 1:06:40
  good without bad Etc. So you're that, you're certainly
• 1:06:43
  in the valley, was it? An immediate Peak was an
• 1:06:47
  immediate like oh, okay, thank you daughter because this is
• 1:06:50
  what I needed. Or did you have to grow into
• 1:06:53
  that over a certain amount of time?
• 1:06:56
  Yeah, it was, and it was more of a gradual realization, you know,
• 1:07:00
  was a very positive distraction that I had at the end of every
• 1:07:03
  workday to be able to go and be with these kids.
• 1:07:05
  You know, it was I really look forward to it and I think as I
• 1:07:10
  got to know them as people and have, you know, relationships
• 1:07:15
  that were meaningful with all of them in one way and just start
• 1:07:18
  to have fun. Again, you know, I started
• 1:07:21
  laughing again. I start enjoying life again, you
• 1:07:23
  know, it didn't come without, you know, of course, when you go
• 1:07:28
  through what I went through its, you know, just doesn't go away.
• 1:07:30
  I still battle with some of those things now, but but you
• 1:07:35
  start to feel Joy again. And then that brings hope,
• 1:07:39
  right? And that just pushes you through
• 1:07:40
  those bad days because you've got this at the end of your day,
• 1:07:44
  to go to, you know, and and and so you know seeing their
• 1:07:48
  victories and how happy it made them because we worked hard.
• 1:07:52
  Let me tell you what I pushed my kids, they get, they were not
• 1:07:56
  successful because of luck, you know?
• 1:07:59
  But I started that's when I started the promise that I made.
• 1:08:06
  Make a promise to all my athletes.
• 1:08:08
  I started then after I got back start realizing you know what
• 1:08:12
  they can do if they're committed.
• 1:08:14
  So I made I started a promise every season.
• 1:08:16
  I don't care if you were on the team before, not every season, I
• 1:08:20
  still do it today. I promised my kids, I promise
• 1:08:23
  you that, if you are committed to this team and your efforts as
• 1:08:27
  much as I am, that you will achieve something.
• 1:08:31
  That at this moment you think is unachievable, I promise that now
• 1:08:35
  may not be the some may take a while to get to that point, but
• 1:08:39
  I promise you that, that was what will happen.
• 1:08:41
  I do that. Every I do that now from now on
• 1:08:45
  and and, you know, I think that is, that's pretty deep and I
• 1:08:50
  think it's meaningful that, that, you know, Kochi is willing
• 1:08:54
  to put himself on the line for us and make us better than if I
• 1:08:58
  can. He can do it.
• 1:08:59
  I can do it for myself. What else can I do?
• 1:09:01
  What a life lesson that is within itself, right?
• 1:09:03
  And then it goes further, it doesn't have to be in track.
• 1:09:06
  It can I want the same for your studies.
• 1:09:08
  I want the same. When you go to school, not the
• 1:09:10
  same. When you go home and with your
• 1:09:12
  family, I want the same for you when you you know, are seeking
• 1:09:15
  your first job or when you I mean, every life situation, they
• 1:09:20
  can apply that to they'll be better off in the long run,
• 1:09:23
  realizing it's not just nothing. It's not going to be handed to
• 1:09:26
  them, but if they're committed, they'll get something good out
• 1:09:29
  of it, you know. Your experience, like, coaching
• 1:09:31
  your daughter, you know, in coaching your kids in general,
• 1:09:34
  you know, that's a I don't know that I can like, you know, I
• 1:09:38
  think about it, might get in my son just starting to do Middle
• 1:09:41
  School track and I'm so glad he was gravitating towards the
• 1:09:44
  throws because I did not coach throws it all but I've always
• 1:09:46
  wondered like, man, can I can I not be that bad?
• 1:09:49
  Can I just sit back and just be dad?
• 1:09:51
  And just, you know, as long as there's nothing unsafe going on
• 1:09:54
  but then whoever's coaching coaching the way they want to be
• 1:09:58
  coached. I don't know if I can count, how
• 1:10:00
  was it experience? Being dad coach?
• 1:10:02
  That was, I mean, it was, it was good.
• 1:10:04
  I just treat. I just treat all my kids when
• 1:10:06
  they, when they When I coach them kind of like the rest of
• 1:10:08
  them, maybe the expectation of behavior and modeling, what a
• 1:10:15
  good athlete should do was a little higher than some of the
• 1:10:18
  others but as far as you know, I never pushed them any harder
• 1:10:22
  than the others. I push them as hard as they
• 1:10:24
  wanted to be pushed. You know, I wasn't overbearing
• 1:10:27
  with them. Like, when we left practice, the
• 1:10:30
  rule was okay we got 15 minutes on the way home in the car to
• 1:10:34
  talk about practice. And then after that, we're Going
• 1:10:37
  to homework, we're talking about whatever you know whatever makes
• 1:10:40
  us laugh or whatever. Is that home?
• 1:10:42
  That's was going to say you know here this we got several you
• 1:10:45
  know parents of their child before on the podcast and they
• 1:10:48
  always they say exactly what you just said.
• 1:10:50
  I didn't treat them any differently and I'm like well
• 1:10:53
  that's bull crap because they are different because they're
• 1:10:56
  going home with Coach every other kid gets to go home and
• 1:10:59
  complain to Mom or Dad about Coach Made Me Do X or Y or I
• 1:11:04
  can't believe coach has put me in this event. - just kind of
• 1:11:09
  air out their grievances if you will, the the child of a coach
• 1:11:13
  gets to go home and possibly can still do that.
• 1:11:15
  But you're now talking to the coach as well.
• 1:11:17
  As much as you can try to say, well, no at home.
• 1:11:19
  Mom dad. No, no, no, that you, there's no
• 1:11:22
  closet that you throw the coach had into and so it's just dad
• 1:11:25
  your mound donation of all these things.
• 1:11:27
  So it's you may think you're treating them like everybody
• 1:11:31
  else but it is still unique. They are not like everybody
• 1:11:33
  else. They're not for sure.
• 1:11:35
  And I know that That they felt a higher expectation for me.
• 1:11:38
  And the only place I really wanted.
• 1:11:40
  The higher expectation, was a modeling good teen Behavior,
• 1:11:44
  right? Good healthy at with athletic
• 1:11:47
  and athlete Behavior, sportsmanship.
• 1:11:50
  The whole thing like that's was my thing for them.
• 1:11:53
  You know, I didn't expect them, they didn't have to, they didn't
• 1:11:56
  have to make state qualifiers, and I didn't have those
• 1:11:59
  expectations. You know, most of them did
• 1:12:01
  anyway on their own, but I really wanted them just to go
• 1:12:05
  and, you know, Experience experience, the value of being a
• 1:12:09
  part of the track program. To, you know, I was asked this
• 1:12:14
  question, almost in every one of our interviews here on the
• 1:12:16
  podcast as you're going through coaching your daughter here as
• 1:12:20
  we're kind of getting back into coaching coaching.
• 1:12:23
  Now what were you doing up to this point for coaching
• 1:12:27
  education and what I mean by that is formal and informal
• 1:12:30
  meeting formal of like any usatf level ones things like that and
• 1:12:34
  in a fool but just as valuable You know a coach a mentor like
• 1:12:39
  someone you would call them say, hey, I'm having a problem with X
• 1:12:42
  Y or Z or hey, I've got a coach the long jump for the first
• 1:12:45
  time. Can you help me out?
• 1:12:47
  We're get us up to speed a little bit on any coach in
• 1:12:50
  education that you're doing at this point.
• 1:12:52
  Yeah. And it was about that time to
• 1:12:54
  that, I realized that I wanted to become you know, more
• 1:12:57
  knowledgeable about the sport itself.
• 1:12:59
  So I did do the usatf Level Training.
• 1:13:03
  I did level one training I've done.
• 1:13:07
  National Federation trading, even, you know, recently stay on
• 1:13:12
  top of some of those things but I was really lucky in this Mike.
• 1:13:15
  We shared a track with the with the local College Middlebury
• 1:13:18
  College and we had, you know, every day there were
• 1:13:24
  professional coaches there and I befriended them all.
• 1:13:28
  In fact, the head coach Martin BT for a short time, was my
• 1:13:32
  neighbor and then he moved, he got to, you know, move to
• 1:13:35
  another house. And but I've always maintained a
• 1:13:39
  relationship with them and help them.
• 1:13:41
  I would go to their practices and help them out with means.
• 1:13:44
  So, I had this built in set of mentors, ya know, with one of
• 1:13:48
  the best track programs in division, three arguably.
• 1:13:51
  You know, consistently and and and so I, you know, had those
• 1:13:57
  guys, you know, they are him and the throwing coach Luke Hut who
• 1:14:03
  has just developed All-American after American out of nowhere,
• 1:14:08
  like these kids, how get some to perform especially in jab and
• 1:14:12
  Amer, you know, just he's just incredible coach.
• 1:14:15
  And Nicole Wilkerson who is a cross-country coach, and they've
• 1:14:21
  got like six women's cross country national championships
• 1:14:25
  there. And, you know, runner-up, you
• 1:14:27
  know, positions and all sorts of in their part of the best CAC,
• 1:14:31
  which, if anybody knows anything about Northeast Sports Nest, CAC
• 1:14:35
  is So competitive, you know. So they just, you know, they
• 1:14:40
  were at hot, they just coach at high levels and I was just so
• 1:14:43
  fortunate to be part of that. But one thing I think that
• 1:14:47
  prevented me from doing was seeking mentorship outside of my
• 1:14:52
  little bubble, right? So once my daughter left, Martin
• 1:14:58
  actually asked me, if I was interested in coaching at the
• 1:15:02
  college with him and I felt it was this.
• 1:15:05
  It was a natural progression. In to join the staff said, I
• 1:15:08
  need a jumps coach. Would you consider coming and
• 1:15:11
  being are, you know, horizontal jumps, coach, helping out with
• 1:15:15
  multis, is like, yeah, definitely, I do it.
• 1:15:17
  My first year was volunteer basis.
• 1:15:20
  Try to get me a stipend a little bit here and there, you know,
• 1:15:22
  but that's not. I mean, when you're a coach
• 1:15:24
  Esparza, particularly a part-time coach, you know, he's
• 1:15:27
  not doing it for the money, you know?
• 1:15:29
  Anyway, so I said, yes, I'll come and be a part of your
• 1:15:33
  program. And, and so, He sent me to a
• 1:15:39
  jumps. Coach seminar was 45 days in
• 1:15:43
  Ottawa and I go to this thing that can, you know, like this is
• 1:15:47
  going to be really great. I'm so excited to learn more
• 1:15:49
  about, triple jump and high jump and particularly because that's
• 1:15:54
  was my focus and I get there and here I am, you know, nobody, I'm
• 1:15:58
  nobody, right? And, you know who the the people
• 1:16:02
  who will first thought was put on by the Canadian national
• 1:16:05
  team? Team Olympic team and then the
• 1:16:09
  folks who were teaching and he comes up in every one of your
• 1:16:12
  broadcast boost. Boo was there.
• 1:16:16
  Oh man. You missed your place then.
• 1:16:19
  Oh my God. Here it is.
• 1:16:21
  Boo sex later. Dan fath O was there and Nelly
• 1:16:26
  Amara. I'm Nellie.
• 1:16:28
  Oh, Nellie Amora. Is the national coach for
• 1:16:32
  Brazil? And he, and at the time, this
• 1:16:35
  was just they've got some pretty good jumpers.
• 1:16:37
  Yeah, a few and at the time, it was just a couple of months
• 1:16:41
  after the London Olympics. So, they all came in with this,
• 1:16:46
  like unbelievable repertoire of stories about the lemons and you
• 1:16:51
  know, and how they did a prepare these guys.
• 1:16:55
  To compete. And, you know, I'm looking
• 1:16:59
  around and there's the, there's a South Korean coach, there's a
• 1:17:02
  coach from Australia. Here's, you know, seriously,
• 1:17:05
  there's the Canadian team over there.
• 1:17:07
  There's, there's a coach from Syracuse University.
• 1:17:10
  There's a comes from Georgetown. Hey, there's a coach from United
• 1:17:14
  States Military Academy at West Point, you know?
• 1:17:16
  I'm, and I'm thinking, you know, you going around the room.
• 1:17:19
  Hi, I'm Bill. I coach at Memorial holy
• 1:17:23
  mackerel, dude. But I learned so much.
• 1:17:26
  It was amazing. That's where I learned in order
• 1:17:29
  for me to be at the top of my game.
• 1:17:30
  I need to make myself an expert, whatever assignment I am given,
• 1:17:34
  I need to be the expert at that science, you know, at that, that
• 1:17:36
  assignment. So knowing what we know about
• 1:17:38
  you. So far, I have a field because,
• 1:17:41
  you know, again I can see someone in that situation, you
• 1:17:45
  know, and there becomes this The word I'm looking for here when
• 1:17:53
  you start thinking, oh, well, I'm not, you know, I'm
• 1:17:55
  Middlebury. I'm, you know, you start kind
• 1:17:58
  of, you know, you kind of cower down a little bit, like I can't
• 1:18:00
  talk to so and so I can't even give my, I'm not giving my
• 1:18:03
  opinion, there's Boo. And Dan, in the South Korean
• 1:18:06
  coat, whatever you gotta write. But knowing what we know about
• 1:18:10
  you so far, I have a feeling. You were like, hey, so I've got
• 1:18:13
  a question. Hey, so, how'd you do this?
• 1:18:15
  Like you, you had no, some people say you have no shame.
• 1:18:18
  Like, you know, it's like oh, man.
• 1:18:20
  Your learn will die better take advantage of the opportunity.
• 1:18:23
  It without question, I definitely had some definitely
• 1:18:26
  had some questions but what I didn't know.
• 1:18:28
  I didn't know. You know what I mean?
• 1:18:29
  Right. Right.
• 1:18:30
  So I listened a lot. Yeah.
• 1:18:32
  For sure. For sure.
• 1:18:33
  You know, and learn from them. Then the questions came from
• 1:18:35
  that and we've got two ears. One, mouth for a reason.
• 1:18:37
  That's good. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:18:39
  And And so, so I listened a lot and learn a ton from those guys.
• 1:18:47
  And you know, one thing that I ripped, that really resonated
• 1:18:50
  with me was, who is an extremely, brilliant technician.
• 1:18:58
  Brilliant. I mean, you know that as much as
• 1:19:00
  I do, I still listen to them on YouTube and I still look to him
• 1:19:03
  for, you know, and I saw, I watched the episode with him,
• 1:19:07
  you know, a couple of times and and then I listened to Dan and
• 1:19:13
  Dan seem to be a little more, little less Technical, and a
• 1:19:18
  little more philosophical and his approach.
• 1:19:21
  I don't know if that's fair but that's at the time.
• 1:19:23
  That's how I took it. And some of the things that he
• 1:19:26
  said, resonated with me and particularly how he dealt with
• 1:19:31
  Greg Rutherford and he won the gold medal that year, right?
• 1:19:35
  Great Britain. He was Dan fast was a Great
• 1:19:37
  Britain coach for a while. And Rutherford came out of
• 1:19:41
  nowhere. And he said, and you wouldn't
• 1:19:43
  believe it, he only practices twice a week because that's all
• 1:19:46
  his body will allow him to practice.
• 1:19:48
  Hmm. He was telling the story how he,
• 1:19:50
  you know, and it's so resonated with me that it's really about,
• 1:19:55
  you know, the quality of training, not the quantity and
• 1:19:58
  doing that, each athlete requires something different to
• 1:20:01
  be at their top level. So valuable, you know, and that
• 1:20:05
  just resonated with me and I took that back if anything and
• 1:20:08
  develop programs. Within the structure of the team
• 1:20:13
  in of the jumps group. But but really worked on what
• 1:20:18
  does each athlete need? And I think that's what brought
• 1:20:21
  the success. You know, within my short stint
• 1:20:26
  with little Beret, was there for four years and basically,
• 1:20:30
  basically took hurdlers and sprinters and tournament along
• 1:20:32
  jumpers. Finally, we started to before I
• 1:20:36
  left it, they started to recruit jumpers and And I mean we've got
• 1:20:42
  like, you know, had a couple of had on an All-American multi
• 1:20:45
  athlete that I was able to coach and the one who's all people,
• 1:20:49
  two of them who were all the legal until Regional, some
• 1:20:53
  jumpers. Who made region regionals had a
• 1:20:56
  top 30 female Jumper in the nation and long jump.
• 1:21:02
  And just turn them into like when when only 15 people go to
• 1:21:07
  Conference Finals and a dove. Them are from Middlebury
• 1:21:10
  College, you're doing something right, I'd say so.
• 1:21:14
  So so it was really good. It was really good stint there
• 1:21:19
  and but what I did too at the same time that I was doing all
• 1:21:22
  this, I went back to college, because I was so intrigued with
• 1:21:26
  this leadership thing. Like, you know, I got to learn
• 1:21:28
  more about it, so it can apply it more.
• 1:21:30
  That's right. You never got a degree at this.
• 1:21:32
  Well, you know, your Cortland. Oh yeah.
• 1:21:35
  Yeah. You made a commitment to go back
• 1:21:37
  to school. Yeah, I did.
• 1:21:39
  So at the same time, I'm working a full-time job and coaching.
• 1:21:43
  Went back to went back to college and I got three degrees
• 1:21:46
  in less than five years. Wow.
• 1:21:49
  What degrees did you get? So I got an associate's just,
• 1:21:53
  you know, liberal arts Associates and from that I built
• 1:21:56
  on and got a Bachelor's in professional studies in
• 1:22:00
  leadership in human behavior. And from that, I want got a
• 1:22:03
  Masters of Science in organizational leadership.
• 1:22:08
  And why did you pick those? There's a lot of other thing,
• 1:22:09
  you know, you could have done. Kinesiology could have finished
• 1:22:12
  out your Teaching degree, things things like that.
• 1:22:15
  Why did you pick those Majors? Well, I wasn't.
• 1:22:17
  I was really intrigued with the process and the science of
• 1:22:20
  leading people. And I really got that from the
• 1:22:23
  military of doing things the right way.
• 1:22:26
  You know, I mean you take leadership courses in the
• 1:22:28
  military to and but I learned, you know what I wanted to really
• 1:22:31
  is understand better that why the this work so well.
• 1:22:35
  And why did this not work? And I really wanted to, you
• 1:22:39
  know, I had aspirations of Continuing to lead organizations
• 1:22:44
  and and, you know, make them the best organizations.
• 1:22:47
  They could be as one thing that I for whatever reason.
• 1:22:51
  One thing that I could do is, you know, take take an
• 1:22:57
  organization or a group of people and turn them into, you
• 1:23:02
  know, a good or excellent group of people, you know, in the
• 1:23:07
  military, I can remember the first day I was in basic
• 1:23:10
  training. real sergeant said that I've been, you know, I've
• 1:23:14
  been given the Asylum possible assignment of turning you guys
• 1:23:20
  into something that you're not. I'm supposed to turn chicken
• 1:23:24
  scratchings, into chicken salad. They didn't use the term
• 1:23:27
  scratching, right? Thank you for keeping it.
• 1:23:30
  PG on the podcast. Yeah, I'm trying, you know.
• 1:23:33
  So so that's stopping. Me is like, yeah, you know, I
• 1:23:37
  kind of figure, I've got a knack for that too.
• 1:23:39
  So so rebuilding programs rebuilding organizations.
• 1:23:42
  I did it a nonprofits, I took over and became Executives of
• 1:23:45
  these two nonprofits, you know, Wherever I go wherever I landed,
• 1:23:50
  I always turn something into better than what it was.
• 1:23:52
  It really has added to my personal Mantra of leaving this
• 1:23:56
  place better than how I found it, meaning the our world, you
• 1:23:59
  know, our community where we make an impact, you know?
• 1:24:04
  And so I went and studied leadership so I could apply
• 1:24:08
  These principles and leader skills, more deliberately, and
• 1:24:12
  effectively. And it was amazing.
• 1:24:18
  How do you you know, leadership is This fuzzy thing out there
• 1:24:24
  extremely valuable so don't hear me saying it when I describe it
• 1:24:27
  that way. But what I mean by that is it's
• 1:24:29
  hard to describe, it's easy to see.
• 1:24:32
  It's easier to see harder to describe, how do you what did
• 1:24:39
  you learn in the book format, the the education format and
• 1:24:44
  then, how did you Transform that into the actual implementation
• 1:24:50
  side of it. You can read about great
• 1:24:52
  leaders. You can read about the decisions
• 1:24:54
  that they made, but I have to feel like there's a difference
• 1:25:00
  between what you experienced leadership, wise in the
• 1:25:04
  military, and then how others have experienced leadership from
• 1:25:08
  you as the coach, the implementation side, talk to me
• 1:25:11
  about that. You know, if you agree with me
• 1:25:15
  that there's a there's book leadership and then There's
• 1:25:17
  actual transfer, Matrix transformation of it and be an
• 1:25:20
  experiential leadership. How did that occur?
• 1:25:23
  Yeah, it's really true. So, so during my master's
• 1:25:28
  program, we really talked about specific principles and skills.
• 1:25:34
  And unfortunately, at the time, I was an executive director of,
• 1:25:39
  of an ambulance service that I took from being in a small town
• 1:25:44
  volunteer, Ambulance Service and developed it into a National
• 1:25:47
  level Regional EMS Center did that and I was able to take what
• 1:25:54
  I learned at the time and apply it as the you know as the chief
• 1:25:58
  of this department and actually practice what I was learning at
• 1:26:03
  the same time. So we can actually see, you
• 1:26:06
  know, how this, how did you know how it did interface like you're
• 1:26:11
  talking about? And I think that was really
• 1:26:14
  valuable for me because otherwise, it would have been
• 1:26:16
  pretty You know, I think it would have been just kind of
• 1:26:19
  like you're saying, it's kind of a vague thing, but first of all,
• 1:26:22
  you have to understand what leadership is, Right?
• 1:26:24
  Leadership is a process. It's right.
• 1:26:27
  It's a process of influencing those around.
• 1:26:30
  You to meet, you know, a goal and objective emission.
• 1:26:37
  That otherwise wouldn't be met but you you're influencing them
• 1:26:41
  to meet these standards, right? So it's a process and processes
• 1:26:45
  movement. So leadership, I think is so
• 1:26:48
  much seen as like a like a thing like a noun.
• 1:26:51
  It's not really, it's really a verb.
• 1:26:53
  Its movement leadership is a process so you have to keep
• 1:26:56
  moving with things. That's how you create this
• 1:26:59
  movement that you're going to get the results from.
• 1:27:03
  And that movement is comes from who else he comes from the
• 1:27:05
  leader. So then, Learn leader skills,
• 1:27:09
  right, and principles and you learn how and teach how to apply
• 1:27:13
  them like that visual. You know.
• 1:27:16
  It kind of changed the way I was thinking about it.
• 1:27:19
  You know what I want in my head when I visualize the word
• 1:27:22
  leader, I visualize it like a title like, you know, leader
• 1:27:25
  over, you know, a coach's head or leader on their chest.
• 1:27:29
  But the way you described that that, you know, that it's a,
• 1:27:31
  it's a movie. It's towards of goal, which
• 1:27:33
  means there's movement. So, leadership is actually
• 1:27:35
  movement. It's an action like a Kind of
• 1:27:37
  got a got this vision of like bleep the words, you know, the
• 1:27:40
  letters of leader like actual like they're never standing
• 1:27:43
  still there. They're always in perpetual
• 1:27:46
  motion. I like that.
• 1:27:47
  We described it. Yeah, so the leaders, the
• 1:27:49
  facilitator, that movement, right.
• 1:27:52
  I was so lucky to. I had built some such good
• 1:27:54
  relationships at Middlebury College before I left there.
• 1:27:59
  They invited me in to do some leadership development for their
• 1:28:01
  athletic department. Which again, talk about imposter
• 1:28:04
  syndrome, much like I kind of felt before I came on with you
• 1:28:08
  seeing the your list of guess there's a who's who of college
• 1:28:12
  coaches sitting in the in the you know the training room when
• 1:28:15
  I walk in there and to meet, you know, my colleagues, my coaching
• 1:28:18
  colleagues but you've got, you know, Bill beanie, who is a
• 1:28:21
  men's hockey coach, who has like nine national championships.
• 1:28:25
  You know you've got the women's high College Hockey coach, who
• 1:28:30
  had, you know, I don't probably a handful at that time.
• 1:28:34
  I think they he's won seven or eight right now.
• 1:28:37
  You know, you've got Martin Beatty my boss and, you know,
• 1:28:42
  Nicole Wilkerson, they've, you know, they've got championships
• 1:28:46
  and, you know, the women's cross-country, he's got six and
• 1:28:49
  I mean, there was just you name it.
• 1:28:51
  The basketball coach soccer, coach, they're all in there, I'm
• 1:28:55
  teaching them leadership and Leadership skills.
• 1:28:58
  Know what some would call soft skills are really not their
• 1:29:00
  heart. They're just real skills,
• 1:29:02
  listening, you know, active listening, and introspection and
• 1:29:08
  reflection. And, you know, just I mean, we
• 1:29:12
  could go down the line, but it was just a really humbling
• 1:29:15
  experience to be able to do that.
• 1:29:17
  And make a difference to the idea was that what we were going
• 1:29:20
  to provide developmental skills for the coaches and then turn
• 1:29:25
  that into a leadership development.
• 1:29:28
  Program for athletes particularly these
• 1:29:32
  upperclassmen. So now I can influence those
• 1:29:35
  just being other athletes and young people Beyond, you know,
• 1:29:38
  track and field in other sports too.
• 1:29:41
  Yeah. So what happened though was end
• 1:29:44
  up leaving because we had, we started having grandchildren and
• 1:29:49
  we had two grandchildren in New Hampshire.
• 1:29:52
  A, my wife and I would visit them all the time and we're kind
• 1:29:55
  of like why are we driving two and a half hours every weekend?
• 1:29:57
  Why don't we just pick up and go moving?
• 1:30:00
  We did I had a really good job offer.
• 1:30:02
  I took over a struggling agency, that that gave support to
• 1:30:07
  military veterans and that seemed like a really good fit.
• 1:30:11
  No, I could find some place to coach and I end up coaching at
• 1:30:14
  the local high school. Yeah.
• 1:30:18
  And so, we moved now since then, and hi.
• 1:30:21
  The site. Now we have nine grandchildren,
• 1:30:23
  I'd be in. Some of them are some of their
• 1:30:25
  are back in Vermont, so I don't know, you know, whatever.
• 1:30:27
  But that was, that this is a kind of a personal question.
• 1:30:30
  I'm gonna gonna go out on a limb and say that my son and daughter
• 1:30:33
  do not listen to this podcast. Because if they do, this will
• 1:30:36
  ruin a surprise. So, as you and I are recording
• 1:30:39
  today, bill on June 12, my in-laws.
• 1:30:42
  Their grandparents are, I mean, almost it just hit me when you
• 1:30:46
  said two and a half hours there in Chicago where in Champaign
• 1:30:48
  that's two and a half hours essentially they're moving down.
• 1:30:52
  To my area to Muhammad again to be there, like me.
• 1:30:55
  And we're everybody's traveling, you know, we got a limited time
• 1:30:58
  of these kids before. They don't want to be with her
• 1:31:00
  parents, you know, those kind of things.
• 1:31:01
  And so they're moving to Muhammad and I'm so happy.
• 1:31:05
  So blessed that, you know, the grandparents will be involved in
• 1:31:07
  their lives. How was that for you though?
• 1:31:09
  Like how did the how did the grandkids receive it?
• 1:31:12
  How did it meet expectations from from Grandma and Grandpa?
• 1:31:17
  And tell me more about this is kind of like saying even the
• 1:31:20
  podcast anymore This is just curious for my own personal
• 1:31:23
  because that they move down, like, said, it's the 12:18 that.
• 1:31:27
  Yeah. The 30th.
• 1:31:27
  So 7:42. So less than three weeks.
• 1:31:30
  They'll be there in the kids have no idea.
• 1:31:32
  By the way, it's going to be a surprise, which is even more
• 1:31:34
  fantastic. Well, how was that?
• 1:31:36
  How did it meet expectations? I think it exceeded any
• 1:31:39
  expectation that we had and I think the reason being is that
• 1:31:42
  we didn't invade their territory.
• 1:31:46
  We were just closer to be more involved and we kind of let them
• 1:31:50
  set that. Tone.
• 1:31:52
  Okay, he didn't just show up. We didn't just say, hey I'm
• 1:31:55
  coming over. I'm going to clip this and send
• 1:31:57
  this to my in-laws. Yeah, I think that would be the
• 1:31:59
  advice of given is just to be available to help build that
• 1:32:03
  relationship. As you know, let it grow as, as
• 1:32:09
  you're available, and as you want them to be there.
• 1:32:13
  Excuse me. And so, it's been really, I
• 1:32:16
  mean, it's been a, it's been terrific.
• 1:32:19
  Are are those those grandchildren?
• 1:32:22
  There are young. They're our oldest
• 1:32:23
  grandchildren. Now, one is just getting ready
• 1:32:25
  to go into high school. She's still be 14 zoom and so
• 1:32:32
  we've been there, we've been with them you know ever since
• 1:32:35
  they were little so you know most of their lives.
• 1:32:38
  I'm super excited. I just don't know that I have
• 1:32:42
  any reservations either, you know, they're not Overly
• 1:32:45
  involved in law so it's not like, you know, the typical
• 1:32:48
  in-laws son-in-law battle, you know that you just are typically
• 1:32:53
  see unlike TV and things like that.
• 1:32:55
  Like I love my father-in-law and mother-in-law very much so.
• 1:32:59
  So I like I'm very supportive and in everything and to me it
• 1:33:03
  is more about. It's less about, you know,
• 1:33:05
  whatever my feelings might be in more about like oh man, they get
• 1:33:07
  to be in the grandkids lives and I just think that's a that's a
• 1:33:11
  good thing. I don't know how it can be a bad
• 1:33:13
  thing you know. They're good people.
• 1:33:15
  Can only be a good thing to see experiences and build a share in
• 1:33:20
  the aging process through it as well and not from, from afar,
• 1:33:24
  you know. Yeah, I'm a great person is
• 1:33:26
  better, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:33:29
  We try to see all of our grandkids.
• 1:33:31
  It's it is difficult, even though we're all in New England
• 1:33:33
  now. Yeah, well, 99 is different to
• 1:33:36
  my daughter who the daughter who got me back into coaching.
• 1:33:40
  Yeah. Who was in ninth grade at going
• 1:33:42
  in a ninth grade? Now, she just had her fourth
• 1:33:44
  baby. Maybe they were living in
• 1:33:47
  Tennessee for a while. She went to school at Murray
• 1:33:49
  State University. Oh yeah.
• 1:33:51
  Racers. Yeah, her husband was in the
• 1:33:52
  army. At Fort Campbell and he got out
• 1:33:56
  of the army. They stay down there for a
• 1:33:57
  while. Excuse me, that they just
• 1:34:00
  recently moved back up here. They're New Hampshire about an
• 1:34:03
  hour and a half away. Cool.
• 1:34:05
  So we're seeing those babies more and, you know, we're we try
• 1:34:08
  to meet up with the one to the folks who are still, you know,
• 1:34:12
  over in in Vermont. So, it's a bit of a, you know,
• 1:34:16
  scheduling conundrum at times, but it is just so nice that we
• 1:34:20
  are all now, in the same region, we can get together and more
• 1:34:24
  Lady. Yeah.
• 1:34:24
  So it's really cool to be to have that just kind of come full
• 1:34:27
  circle. All right, what is this deal,
• 1:34:29
  Athletics? Can I get?
• 1:34:30
  That's not the Mike Cunningham. Let's go back.
• 1:34:33
  You find yourself coaching high school again?
• 1:34:36
  Yeah, you know what? Saddest day of my life and I had
• 1:34:39
  to get back on one of those yellow buses.
• 1:34:41
  Well, okay, I've got you said that there's a terrible segue
• 1:34:44
  but I was going to ask how was your ego because, you know it's
• 1:34:48
  easy for us to fall in the Trap of on the college coach, it's
• 1:34:52
  quote unquote more Important to coach college kids or more
• 1:34:56
  valuable, or more perceived valuable than it is to coach
• 1:34:59
  high school, kids. I don't believe that at all.
• 1:35:03
  But some, do how did it feel going back to coaching high
• 1:35:07
  schoolers and get back on that? Yellow bus?
• 1:35:08
  Exactly. Yeah, well, it was the bus part.
• 1:35:11
  That was the sad part Massacre coaching coaching the
• 1:35:14
  youngsters. You just have to dial it down.
• 1:35:16
  Understand they're not at the level, you know, you, I'm
• 1:35:18
  coaching athletes. That little break College one of
• 1:35:20
  the most esteemed academic institutions as a June, 3 level,
• 1:35:25
  these kids are wicked smart, a lots more smart than I was
• 1:35:28
  probably. But they didn't want to just
• 1:35:30
  know what the workout was. They want to know why they were
• 1:35:33
  doing it, like, specifically, how is this helping me?
• 1:35:37
  Write, it made me retool my game at a level.
• 1:35:42
  That was very you know very high level of coaching and knowledge.
• 1:35:46
  So, I really enjoyed that challenge and I really found
• 1:35:52
  that that was the level that I was most effective at.
• 1:35:56
  So leaving their, I was sad but I was leaving for all the right
• 1:35:58
  reasons, you know, excuse me again.
• 1:36:02
  Anyway getting back, you know still valuable and to bring the
• 1:36:07
  same philosophy of this is a venue to teach important life
• 1:36:11
  lessons and help kids realize, you know, achieve the
• 1:36:13
  unachievable is such a lesson within itself and I did that.
• 1:36:17
  When I was an assistant coach doing the jumps at the local
• 1:36:19
  high school. And so it was just yeah.
• 1:36:27
  There really wasn't an ego thing but it just wasn't as
• 1:36:30
  challenging. Yeah.
• 1:36:31
  Sure. But it was still satisfying,
• 1:36:33
  right? I'm still coaching and kids were
• 1:36:35
  getting something out of a day. Otherwise they wouldn't have
• 1:36:38
  kids are qualifying for state championships that otherwise
• 1:36:40
  wouldn't have, you know, some really really great positive
• 1:36:44
  relationships. Came from it, But I had to board
• 1:36:48
  the yellow bus. Now, you know, Middlebury
• 1:36:50
  College is you know they they they travel in a very
• 1:36:58
  comfortable manner because they're private institution
• 1:37:02
  every you know all coaches overnight stays.
• 1:37:06
  You know it was just you know it was I love getting on the bus to
• 1:37:10
  go to overnight to meets with the team because he just felt
• 1:37:13
  like you know you made the big time.
• 1:37:15
  In fact I finally did make a Well, Championship went with the
• 1:37:19
  cross country, team to Nationals on here.
• 1:37:21
  So my my dream of going to national championships as a
• 1:37:25
  coach back when I was basketball came to fruition as Country
• 1:37:29
  Coach. So it was that was so cool.
• 1:37:32
  Anyway. I left.
• 1:37:37
  I was there for three. Almost four years pressure from
• 1:37:44
  my job was mounting not to coach, so I kind of had to make
• 1:37:48
  a decision not to coach and decided like okay I guess I'm
• 1:37:53
  gonna have to take some time off because work isn't going to let
• 1:37:55
  me go to meet and I don't let me leave early for practices, you
• 1:37:59
  know? So it was like so so I so I
• 1:38:04
  stopped coaching very briefly, but but then quickly picked it
• 1:38:10
  back up because I had lost my job and So I'm sitting around
• 1:38:18
  feeling sorry for myself and I'm flipping channels and trying to
• 1:38:21
  figure out what I'm gonna do with my life.
• 1:38:22
  And I thought, I wonder if there's any coaching jobs around
• 1:38:26
  and and I came across a great documentary about high school
• 1:38:33
  team, the long green line. Hello?
• 1:38:37
  New York. Yes York.
• 1:38:39
  Yes. Joe Newton.
• 1:38:41
  I guess Joe Newton. My first coaching job was in
• 1:38:43
  Chicago versus York, so I've heard I've read that book.
• 1:38:47
  Look, come on that, it's semi-famous nationally, but
• 1:38:51
  certainly culturally in the Chicagoland Midwest, Joe Newton
• 1:38:55
  is, you know, God Rest, his soul, absolute Legend.
• 1:38:59
  Another question that would write a book that we should have
• 1:39:02
  a book about his philosophy because he had a very unique
• 1:39:05
  philosophy that was very successful.
• 1:39:07
  And it certainly pointed on the long green line, hundreds of
• 1:39:12
  kids on his team's and how he treated them and how he got them
• 1:39:15
  out on the team. Absolutely.
• 1:39:17
  Yeah. Yes, documentary on Coach
• 1:39:19
  Newton, I did and it just inspired me.
• 1:39:22
  So I thought, you know, there's some coaching, there's some, you
• 1:39:25
  know, there's a coaching job available and I looked around
• 1:39:27
  and that's when I found, you know, just down the road,
• 1:39:31
  smaller smile, High School down the road Conant High School,
• 1:39:33
  where I coach for, almost five years, we'll have an opening.
• 1:39:36
  I just sent an email to the athletic director say, hey, I'm
• 1:39:39
  interested in coaching. I see you need a coach for
• 1:39:42
  cross-country. This fall here.
• 1:39:43
  It is July. I think it's coming up quick.
• 1:39:47
  And he said, yeah. He said I'd love to hire you.
• 1:39:54
  And after a 20-minute conversation, I was hired as the
• 1:39:59
  next, you know, I was, I can't say hired because he had to go
• 1:40:02
  through the to go through the routine.
• 1:40:04
  But he committed to hiring me and was willing to give me also
• 1:40:12
  the indoor and outdoor track programs.
• 1:40:14
  Oh boy, that's a lot. Yeah, so I went from I'm nothing
• 1:40:18
  and drove into everything. Right?
• 1:40:21
  Took those programs over at that time.
• 1:40:23
  They were all pretty. They were struggling programs
• 1:40:29
  and took those programs from, you know, let's just put it this
• 1:40:34
  way. My vision was that we were going
• 1:40:37
  to hang a banner by the time I left there that we were going to
• 1:40:40
  win a championship. They never want to cross country
• 1:40:42
  championship and the last time they won track and field was
• 1:40:46
  20-something years before that. So that was a vision.
• 1:40:51
  I put it out there. That's what brought people
• 1:40:53
  together. They have very strong Basketball
• 1:40:55
  Traditions there, and the kids weren't feeling.
• 1:40:57
  Again, this will be talked about, so we pulled the pull
• 1:41:00
  them in created, a core group of interested people and just four
• 1:41:07
  years later, the boys team won, their first state championship
• 1:41:13
  in track and field in 25 years. Where when I started they scored
• 1:41:17
  zero points for years earlier. The cross country team.
• 1:41:22
  I think the best they did was 9th or 10th and they finished
• 1:41:26
  second and third twice, women's team.
• 1:41:31
  Did really well to finish third, couple of times and you know
• 1:41:36
  just, you know, just brought it to a whole new level as, you
• 1:41:39
  know, got athlete scholarships and, you know, we put three
• 1:41:45
  people in the top 10 in the state decathlon Championship.
• 1:41:48
  We have verse third and tenth. You know, and I mean, just did
• 1:41:52
  some amazing things and for those kids about time, yeah.
• 1:41:56
  In a very short amount of time because we're all, you know, but
• 1:41:59
  I was all-in on it. I mean, all in I was putting
• 1:42:01
  more time into that program that I was putting into my day job.
• 1:42:05
  You know, part of the reason was, I didn't have a day job to
• 1:42:07
  start with set this precedent that I had to maintain once, I
• 1:42:10
  got one, but then covid hit. Nobody had a day job where I,
• 1:42:15
  you know, track was put on the back burner, no meets no, no.
• 1:42:20
  Nothing. I had a very, very, I guess
• 1:42:26
  favorite team that was, you know, position to win a State
• 1:42:31
  title for the, for the women's side, the girls team and track,
• 1:42:35
  and they got it yanked out from under him.
• 1:42:37
  And, you know, they were a lot of the kids of seniors who miss
• 1:42:39
  their senior year were suffering and I recognize that.
• 1:42:42
  So I decided to put together a webinar For all athletes.
• 1:42:49
  I opened it up advertise in a short period.
• 1:42:51
  Two to three weeks had about 100 people, join from all mostly
• 1:42:56
  Regional, but I had some, you know, throughout the United
• 1:42:59
  States put together a panel of folks to speak about, you know,
• 1:43:06
  that this isn't over that this isn't the end.
• 1:43:09
  Let's talk this thing through. Let's reassure you that as
• 1:43:12
  defeated as you feel now that this is only one part of your
• 1:43:17
  journey. That will likely make you
• 1:43:18
  stronger as you progress in your life.
• 1:43:21
  So it's really really interesting people on the panel
• 1:43:24
  I had Don Page. Yeah. 100 meter Champion.
• 1:43:28
  Yeah, good friend. And I brought him and asked him
• 1:43:31
  to come on. He did it didn't, he didn't know
• 1:43:33
  me from anybody to know him but I can remember him from my high
• 1:43:38
  school days. He was on the 1980 Olympic team
• 1:43:41
  that got the rug pulled out from under them for the boycott and
• 1:43:45
  he came and told his story and reassured.
• 1:43:47
  And the kids that, you know, yeah, that's all do something
• 1:43:51
  without you. No, no, no.
• 1:43:51
  Everything out of his control, no control over that.
• 1:43:55
  Yeah, that's yes, the King Island and that's that was the
• 1:43:59
  premise was control. What you can control like this
• 1:44:01
  is the name of the it was the the your greatest comeback or
• 1:44:05
  something. Was the name of it so he was
• 1:44:06
  there. Thomas Velez was there off?
• 1:44:08
  You know who Thomas? Velez's Thomasville as if you've
• 1:44:11
  watched the movie McFarland USA. I haven't but I know it.
• 1:44:15
  Yeah, so it's a cross-country movie based on Tan.
• 1:44:18
  Mexican American immigrants and coach, Tom white who took this
• 1:44:23
  program, and turn into the championship program for
• 1:44:25
  cross-country. And anyway, Thomas was Thomas,
• 1:44:29
  was portrayed as the leading actor in the movie, he was the
• 1:44:33
  runner of them who was featured in the movie and he also coaches
• 1:44:38
  out in California. And the reason I brought him on
• 1:44:41
  was a people recognized him in that world in our little
• 1:44:44
  Community, but That even people in California and his daughter
• 1:44:49
  who is in high school and going through the same thing as you,
• 1:44:53
  right? It's not just us, right?
• 1:44:55
  It's this is fraud, you know, how are you coping with it,
• 1:44:59
  what's happening out there that, you know, that.
• 1:45:01
  And I brought on a couple of college coaches and actually had
• 1:45:04
  a country singer Come and sing a song and, you know, so it was
• 1:45:07
  really good. It was it was it was it was fun
• 1:45:10
  and you're like variety hour there, it was a kind of was so
• 1:45:14
  you know it's like 90 minutes of Just great information.
• 1:45:17
  I just talked about really the systemic why you feel this way?
• 1:45:23
  Like systemically like scientifically?
• 1:45:25
  Why do you feel sad that this is happening?
• 1:45:27
  How can you you know push back against this emotion?
• 1:45:31
  You know. So I kind of talked about that
• 1:45:32
  part of it but I got the most boring part to talk about you
• 1:45:36
  know but I thought it was good knowledge.
• 1:45:39
  Just knowledge is power. So but the but it was Don story.
• 1:45:42
  That was the best and you talk about jumbo was like listen.
• 1:45:46
  Because I know you're upset when because he just, I think he just
• 1:45:49
  finished qualifying for the Olympic team when they found out
• 1:45:52
  the trials. Yeah.
• 1:45:54
  He's and he was all, you know, he's upset.
• 1:45:55
  He said, listen, you got 15 minutes to get over this and
• 1:45:59
  then you have to look at what we where we can go.
• 1:46:02
  What we can't control. What's our new goal.
• 1:46:04
  Yeah, and it was that he went off in the end up winning World
• 1:46:07
  Championships, right? Knee had the best time in the
• 1:46:09
  world that year and you know, it was an amazing story Bill, we're
• 1:46:15
  getting close to our time. We okay with everything.
• 1:46:18
  Yeah, okay good. Yeah, I'm good.
• 1:46:20
  Love to as we start to wrap up here though, move into this
• 1:46:24
  position at Keene and yeah, you're coaching a new thing.
• 1:46:28
  Now, at Keen, as well, you're continuing to even at your age
• 1:46:31
  and stage. Now bill, you continue to evolve
• 1:46:33
  and adapt, tell us a little bit about your position, their King,
• 1:46:37
  yeah, almost 31 years into it and, you know, I've thought a
• 1:46:40
  couple of times about leaving and, and being done and just
• 1:46:43
  something else happens that just revs to be back.
• 1:46:46
  Skin pulls me back in and just reminds me how much I love this
• 1:46:50
  as well as Mike pointed pulls. You back in bill and I feel more
• 1:46:54
  like you are continuing to run towards it.
• 1:46:56
  My friend, these problems like I don't know that, that's not
• 1:46:58
  true. You are running towards this
• 1:47:00
  thing, man. Yeah, that's, that's probably
• 1:47:02
  true. So as I was I just knew it was
• 1:47:06
  time to leave Conant. I had done everything I could do
• 1:47:08
  there was just time to leave. They need some, they just needed
• 1:47:12
  fresh Vision there. I think him, you know.
• 1:47:16
  So so at the time I know Keen was looking for for a coach and
• 1:47:21
  I reached out and ran into Dan Roark, the head coach there, a
• 1:47:24
  couple of times while I was still coaching at Kona.
• 1:47:29
  And and I just said, hey Dan, you know, you got this, is there
• 1:47:33
  anything available? I think I'd love to think about
• 1:47:37
  continue to coach at the college level.
• 1:47:39
  He said yeah sure. So we talked about the head to
• 1:47:41
  opening for throws coach. I haven't had a coach there in
• 1:47:44
  probably three years for throws specifically asked if I would
• 1:47:47
  come in. And, and, and I so I accepted
• 1:47:51
  the challenge. It was just a great moment of
• 1:47:53
  growth and Threw myself back into it again, becoming the
• 1:47:56
  expert, you know, signed up for throws University and and you
• 1:48:01
  know, and you know, subscribe to two throws universe and watch a
• 1:48:09
  lot of videos and read a lot of books and just, you know, I
• 1:48:12
  talked to my buddy, Luke back at Middlebury and, you know, and
• 1:48:17
  just just, you know, being and becoming trying to become the
• 1:48:24
  expert. And that, you know, in that
• 1:48:26
  Niche and I had some really good success of us as a throws coach
• 1:48:30
  in high school. So it was, I found an
• 1:48:34
  interesting challenge. So so I took over throws and I'm
• 1:48:39
  helping out with multis as well because I have that background,
• 1:48:43
  we're working really hard to, I think increase our presence as a
• 1:48:46
  multi school, and we're building.
• 1:48:48
  And, you know, Dan has done, such a good job, recruiting and
• 1:48:52
  bringing levels of Interest back.
• 1:48:54
  Up and the idea is to build that program back to what it used to
• 1:48:57
  be you know, 10 15 years ago and you know we're doing a doing a
• 1:49:04
  pretty good job there. And you know my first group of
• 1:49:07
  throwers they started with five and finished with 14 and you
• 1:49:12
  know six new school records to conference champions.
• 1:49:16
  You know and we had the third third ranked women's shotput
• 1:49:23
  Squad in New England. And behind MIT in Springfield
• 1:49:28
  and that's not too shabby, you know, for the really good ones.
• 1:49:31
  Yeah, I've months of work. So I'm looking forward to what
• 1:49:33
  this brings but that brings new challenges to because now the
• 1:49:37
  expectation is high. So so yeah.
• 1:49:40
  It's, you know, it's all good solid, good thing.
• 1:49:43
  And I love to being back at the college level, I feel like I
• 1:49:47
  belong there, there's great positive energy, I connect well,
• 1:49:51
  with the with the athletes. And, you know, that's what When
• 1:49:54
  it comes to really what it comes down to.
• 1:49:56
  So as you look towards next season and you know, casting
• 1:50:00
  Vision out there for three, four, five seasons from now.
• 1:50:03
  What's got you excited? There at Keene State and maybe
• 1:50:05
  specifically about your part of the program and your?
• 1:50:08
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:50:08
  For sure. So, you know, I think we want to
• 1:50:11
  use, we want to use the multi interest to build and bring just
• 1:50:16
  well-rounded athletes into the program that can contribute at
• 1:50:18
  the team level at conference. It's really the conference is
• 1:50:21
  the kind of the Focus right now. So, So we you know the throwers
• 1:50:28
  have been kind of the prolific scorers and which is really a
• 1:50:32
  great thing because it's usually the lack of depth that the field
• 1:50:36
  events that that you know limit your performance at a big meat.
• 1:50:41
  So we kind of have strong field events.
• 1:50:44
  We've bolstered our jumps. We're bringing in pole vault
• 1:50:47
  full time next year. And that's, you know, with the
• 1:50:52
  multis. I'm sure.
• 1:50:53
  I'll be involved with that. I'm a pole, vault certified
• 1:50:57
  coach but that's a the worst event and I don't enjoy coaching
• 1:51:02
  but I thought, you know, we all have those events, you know, not
• 1:51:05
  our favorites but that will be part of, you know, the rebuild
• 1:51:10
  and the rebuild is to be predominant Conference team.
• 1:51:16
  We're working on establishing facilities.
• 1:51:21
  You know, and just raising the program, a level and I think
• 1:51:24
  next year it's it's like again, let's get let's look for
• 1:51:28
  Conference champions. Let's look for records, let's
• 1:51:30
  look for things that we can attain.
• 1:51:32
  And, you know, I think I have at least one athlete, who has a
• 1:51:36
  shot at making Nationals next year.
• 1:51:39
  I had one this year, but she, she graduated, so she won't be
• 1:51:43
  returning. She helped to set a really
• 1:51:46
  strong standard going forward, but that's okay, because the
• 1:51:50
  others now are willing to try to fill those shoes, you know,
• 1:51:54
  that's not foreign territory all.
• 1:51:57
  So it's now it's okay who's going to step up, who's the next
• 1:52:00
  one? And so, you know, it's just just
• 1:52:03
  in constant Improvement, writing Forward Motion all good change
• 1:52:07
  happens when things are moving forward.
• 1:52:09
  So that's what we're looking, you know, that's what I'm
• 1:52:12
  looking to do. So amazing.
• 1:52:14
  What happens when you set the expectations higher and higher
• 1:52:17
  every year, you know, you kind of imagine, you know, Your
• 1:52:21
  leadership training and some goal setting, you know, you
• 1:52:23
  probably have learned about, you know, you have to have that that
• 1:52:27
  big moon shot but you have to have stages in between those
• 1:52:29
  well and you can't have one without properly.
• 1:52:32
  You can't have one without the other.
• 1:52:34
  If you have those stages and you don't have a moonshot, well you
• 1:52:36
  don't get as high as you could if you only have the moonshot
• 1:52:39
  world, you know, becomes this this illusion because you know,
• 1:52:43
  you're not hitting that moonshot, you're not hitting
• 1:52:45
  these stages in between, I always think about this vision
• 1:52:47
  of a ladder like you got to hit each wrong, you know, latter.
• 1:52:50
  Has many, many wrongs to get to the very top.
• 1:52:53
  It doesn't just have the very top.
• 1:52:55
  You got to have them. All right.
• 1:52:58
  We'll bill man. Thank you.
• 1:53:00
  You know as we wrap up here today, thank you for many things
• 1:53:03
  again. You know, I'm always just so
• 1:53:06
  humbled and blessed When anybody can come and spend two hours
• 1:53:08
  again. So there's many many times.
• 1:53:10
  This is not an easy podcast to record for to be a guest on or
• 1:53:14
  to listen to it. So dear listener, thank you for
• 1:53:17
  still being here. I know this is tough word are
• 1:53:19
  hour and 50 minutes. It's always worth it though.
• 1:53:22
  Isn't it? For everybody who always goes to
• 1:53:23
  the end, it's always worth it. And I tell you what, for
• 1:53:26
  anybody, who doesn't believe it, I have the stats to show that
• 1:53:28
  the majority of listeners Who start, press play on this
• 1:53:32
  podcast. Make it to the end.
• 1:53:33
  I'm just so humbled that you would make it to the end.
• 1:53:36
  So Bill, thank you for your time today.
• 1:53:38
  And honestly, you know, one very easy thing to say thank you for
• 1:53:43
  is your service. You know?
• 1:53:44
  Again guys like me will I can never make that sacrifice and
• 1:53:48
  just so grateful for what you've done for our.
• 1:53:50
  Country and what you've done for other people selflessly.
• 1:53:53
  You know, you represent millions and millions of people and I've
• 1:53:57
  served each and every one of them.
• 1:53:58
  So, appreciate that. And also just so thankful from
• 1:54:02
  the, from the very bottom of my heart of your openness and
• 1:54:06
  authenticity. You know, I tell people that,
• 1:54:09
  you know, the guests always directs the conversation, they
• 1:54:13
  are allowed to talk about what they want, or don't want to talk
• 1:54:15
  about. So Bill, when you share, you
• 1:54:18
  know, really personal Lilo moments of your life.
• 1:54:24
  You know, I'm just so thankful because those are the type of
• 1:54:26
  things that other people need to hear.
• 1:54:29
  You know, I talk about preserving the knowledge of
• 1:54:32
  jumbo Elliott's, and Joe Newtons, and things like that.
• 1:54:35
  You know, those are for a lot of people.
• 1:54:37
  Those are our John wooden's and Coach K's and what have you, you
• 1:54:41
  know, it starts with things like this.
• 1:54:44
  You know, the we have to have open authentic conversations,
• 1:54:48
  truthful conversations and you know, I think You did an amazing
• 1:54:52
  job of representing yourself your family, your grandkids for
• 1:54:56
  crying out loud. So so, so special.
• 1:54:59
  And so, I'm just so thankful for everything you've given us today
• 1:55:02
  here on the podcast, man. Thank you so much.
• 1:55:05
  Thanks you're welcome. It's just an honor to be a part
• 1:55:07
  of it, and I will say that I'm coming up to my plan for
• 1:55:13
  retirement, from real jobs because I'm going to start
• 1:55:18
  getting my military retirement. Their benefits soon within
• 1:55:24
  within six months or so. And I say that because that's
• 1:55:27
  going to allow me to do even more.
• 1:55:28
  Oh good. No.
• 1:55:29
  But I do want to start teaching some in offering classes and
• 1:55:33
  development and Leadership. Yeah, the focus on coaches, that
• 1:55:38
  would be an incredible thing to do.
• 1:55:39
  I'm going to come out with my second book about leadership.
• 1:55:41
  I actually have one out there. I'm going to wrote down her
• 1:55:44
  covid, as kind of as a personal challenge, as kind of floating
• 1:55:47
  itself. Yeah.
• 1:55:48
  And so that I still feel like I like The Best Is Yet To Come,
• 1:55:52
  you know, and I just am so appreciative the sport as I
• 1:55:55
  spoke of this platform that you have created.
• 1:55:58
  You're doing it the right way. The connections is so important
• 1:56:02
  and it just, you know, and I really do appreciate being a
• 1:56:06
  part of this list, that's just so humbling to me.
• 1:56:09
  So just keep up the good work. You've got a lifetime viewer on
• 1:56:13
  this end for sure. You know, I listen to one or two
• 1:56:15
  a day, you know, because the list is so long.
• 1:56:19
  It's like you I'm not going to run.
• 1:56:21
  Maybe eventually but yeah, eventually get caught up, right?
• 1:56:24
  Yeah. And that's an important thing
• 1:56:26
  for listeners to hear to, you know, maybe this is your first
• 1:56:30
  second 10th time, listening to the podcast.
• 1:56:32
  So humbled, appreciate that, I deeply concerned of guest.
• 1:56:39
  Number one through 50 and 50 through 100 because it's easy to
• 1:56:43
  when you join the podcast here, in episode two, hundred or two
• 1:56:45
  hundred twelve to not think about going back to the
• 1:56:48
  beginning and I'm not saying you necessarily need To go back and
• 1:56:51
  listen to the entire catalog. That would take you a whole
• 1:56:54
  career may be on its own, but they're our guests back to
• 1:56:59
  number one that will challenge. You will encourage you.
• 1:57:04
  And I think of mouse Holloway who just won the division one
• 1:57:07
  title here in Austin. I think of George Williams.
• 1:57:13
  I think the Harvard crew had several of the harbor coaches
• 1:57:16
  including including the great K but Tolbert on the podcast Mark
• 1:57:19
  Mangia con. Crisp are no I mean just
• 1:57:24
  amazing. People bought their own offer to
• 1:57:27
  Humphries has been on the show. I mean just truly truly amazing
• 1:57:31
  people who choose to be track coaches and I just want people
• 1:57:34
  to just go back use your podcast app.
• 1:57:37
  Just keep swiping it'll take you a little bit but keep swiping
• 1:57:40
  till you get to number 1 and just start looking for people
• 1:57:43
  and what schools that are at people.
• 1:57:45
  Maybe you already know, look in the show.
• 1:57:47
  Notes of just, you know, what we talked about.
• 1:57:49
  I'm just I just know, there are more people already on the
• 1:57:54
  podcast that will Challenge and encourage you.
• 1:57:56
  And in, you need it, we need it. We need to continue to Showcase
• 1:58:02
  these individuals who choose to be track coaches and just uplift
• 1:58:05
  an honor. Because what they do for young
• 1:58:07
  people is immeasurable will never be able to quantify what
• 1:58:13
  these men and women do for our young people and therefore for
• 1:58:15
  society you know you've heard me say it almost none of these
• 1:58:19
  coaches are going Someone who can who make a living of coach
• 1:58:22
  of a performing tracking feel like, there's just not a lot of
• 1:58:26
  money in professional track and field and the talent level there
• 1:58:29
  is just infantile, right? So but what they are doing what
• 1:58:33
  bill is doing? What past guests have done,
• 1:58:36
  daily is create the future moms and dads of this world future
• 1:58:41
  business owners, future doctors and lawyers, of course, things
• 1:58:47
  like that. Future teachers future coaches
• 1:58:50
  and That is, what is changing Society for the better.
• 1:58:54
  And that is the impact. Like I said, you'll never build
• 1:58:56
  a Quantified it because it's literally hundreds and hundreds
• 1:58:59
  of thousands of people that that are in their tree as they go
• 1:59:03
  along and do the world, a favor and bring positivity and
• 1:59:06
  gratitude into their so Bill. Thank you so much again.
• 1:59:10
  Really grateful for you for you guys and gals that are still
• 1:59:12
  here. Appreciate you listening.
• 1:59:14
  Thank you very much for being here this week.
• 1:59:16
  We're going to do it all over again next week and we'll find
• 1:59:19
  the next coach to uplift and on, Honor and share their unique
• 1:59:21
  Journey. Thanks everybody have a great
• 1:59:23
  week.