Latest / Identity at the Center / #181 - IAM Horror Stories

Transcript

#181 - IAM Horror Stories · Identity at the Center

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You're listening to the identity of the center podcast, this is
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the show that talks about identity and access management
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and making sure you know who has access to what let's get
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started. Welcome to the identity of the
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sender podcast I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
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Hey Jim hey Jeff, how are you? Oh not too bad yourself.
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I'm doing good. Just kind of thinking about this
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week we did a little more traveling and I'm wondering how
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you're enjoying small airport. Life, you move from Chicago to
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Asheville, Chicago. You can fly direct to pretty
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much everywhere in the world. Actually, you can pretty much
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fly direct to nowhere and the world.
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That's not true. We have like Non-Stop.
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UPS to like seven different places on on airlines that I
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don't travel with so you know it's fine I think it's I liked
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it for the most part and here's why security is so easy.
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I mean I can park or if I'm getting dropped off I can
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literally be at the gate in like 30 seconds.
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You know, nine times out of 10, there is like no weight at all
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to get through the TSA PreCheck line.
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So I'm satisfied with that. I mean, it's a smaller port,
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five gates, It's my real airport is really Atlanta just because
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that's the hub for Delta. So and then from there, you get
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kind of anywhere but it's all bit of a change.
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The worst thing is the parking situation.
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The Asheville parking Asheville Airport.
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Parking is not great. So hopefully that'll get fixed
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sooner rather than later, but it's fine.
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Yeah, yeah. I find that what you said is is
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spot on, except I think the biggest risk is that they cancel
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or Early delay, The Hop from Atlanta to you know, from The
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Hub to your smaller airport. It happens a lot.
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It happened to me this week, but I guess the thought that I was
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having is really around traveling, it makes it more
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challenging when you're in the throes of, you know, driving a
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project. And what I think the real key is
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to success as having a team of people and being able to trust
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those people. So I think kind of the career
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progression and identity access management, right?
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As you become like a star performer, then the question is
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like if you take that next level step to managing other people
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who have to perform, right? It's to become like that.
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Next level is just not becoming a star performer on more
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projects or like taking on more work.
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It's now how do you get things done with the team?
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You know. For trust to those folks.
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And I think a big part of that, right, is having the right team.
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I'm sure you're having a lot of thoughts.
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I just want to throw one more thing in there, which is that,
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you know, right now on my project I have like an All-Star
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cast of players who are not only doing an awesome job on the
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projects in the scope that were responsible for, but also, kind
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of like, stepping up to that next level to help the client.
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Point where we're finding deficiencies with the other
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teams are working with which are mostly not the clients
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resources, at their other consulting firms that are, you
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know, they're pretty much just working within their box and
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refusing to go outside of their scope.
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And so, you know, we're doing everything we can everything
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within our power, to try to help the client because to us like
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the success of the client is that is the most important
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thing. And so from my perspective, I
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keep Driving those messages like do, what's right for the client
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do what's right for the client, you know, even if it causes us
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to, you know, go above and beyond kind of our scope.
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Obviously, we have to watch that we're not like intruding on
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other people scope and things like that.
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But so, anyway, a lot of thoughts are.
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I'm sure you have some, some things you want to share.
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I mean, yeah, there was a lot to cover their.
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I definitely Echo having a strong team, which is why, which
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is why you're here with me. It's not it.
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So I can so I can I can get on a plane and go do stuff, you know,
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I try to simplify things as much as I can life is already hard.
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Why make it harder for other people?
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As well, as yourself, you know, there's one rule when it comes
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to Consulting in my head when it comes to anything, as long as
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the customers happy everything's fine, right?
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So if it means you need to do you know XYZ or if there's other
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things and if it's reasonable you can get it done.
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Just do it. I mean it's not rocket science.
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So surely gotta like, do you know, balanced budgets and
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margins and all this other stuff that you do when you're part of
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a Consulting practice. But, you know, this is probably
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like boring for people who are not in Consulting.
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But, you know, it's, it's part of the job.
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I think that you and I kind of do in day out, we do this for
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years now, is we've been pretty fortunate to work with great
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clients have be surrounded by great people.
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We're trying to continue that Trend and so far been successful
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in this. This new role that each of us
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has with our SM and Yeah, we do have a great team really smart
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people, you know, I can hop on a plane and feel like, yeah, Jim's
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got it right whether or not you actually do have it.
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You do a pretty good job of Faking it which is which is
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enough to give me confidence that things are going well but
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you know the end the day the customers are happy and that's
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all really matters. So yeah well I think this was
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applicable Beyond Consulting because they think the clients
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that we see be the most successful are the ones where
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they've got a good team. And the, the leaders can
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delegate And are confident in their own people.
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I think the other thing that I just wanted to mention is
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something we've talked about. I know in past episodes, which
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is kind of the win-win scenario. So we feel more confident
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stepping up and helping the client go that extra mile if we
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know we're in as a win-win, right?
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So that, you know, hey, if we do go the extra mile and maybe, you
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know, it's a little bit too much, we're not going to get our
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hands on. Op too hard.
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It's just kind of the give and take, and we're all in it there
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and they want us to be successful.
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And that helps us, you know, Drive their success more as
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well. Yep.
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I mean, it's be nice. So that hard I mean, doesn't
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cost you anything. Speaking of nice, we're going to
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be at octane in a couple weeks so for folks listening to this
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when it goes live it'll be October 31st which is Halloween.
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We definitely Some topics for today, we're going to go over.
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I am horror stories that we've got, but before that will be an
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octane November 8th to the 10th. In San Francisco, want to give a
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shout-out to the Octo folks, as well as specialist even strong.
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Definitely hooking us up. We actually have a spot to
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record on the sort of show for, I guess, have I've seen
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schematics. So I'm not exactly sure exactly
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how it'll be laid out but from from our Vantage box, when we
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see it seems like it's gonna be pretty cool spot.
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At least will be, you know, out there.
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And visible for folks. And we might even have a logo or
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something like that on our little spot.
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So it's very cool. Looking forward to getting some
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folks. I know you been looking at
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getting some some guests lined up for episodes and I think I
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think what I'm thinking is it'll probably very similar to what we
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did for Gartner's. I am Summit and the authenticate
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conference where, you know, record several episodes and sort
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of try to release them on a daily Cadence to kind of cover
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what we're seeing and hearing those days as well as the
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conversation. We're having with the really
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smart identity, folks there. So, I've got, I've also got to
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say, like, you know, yes, shout out to Stephen.
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I think, have we made this request three years ago though.
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I mean, the, the podcast was, you know, not as well-known.
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Let's just say that I've gotten to the point where, when I reach
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out to people to be guests on the podcast, I've rarely get a
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know. The only time people say no is
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like if their corporation or Or I guess their PR department
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forbids them from doing media. I'm like, oh yeah, that's right.
8:30
We are media. Yeah it's really weird to hear
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like you're somebody at Gartner called as journalists and like
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journalists and like very big quotation marks.
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Like I don't consider myself one.
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Like, I'm just an idiot talking about identity.
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Yes, yeah, I mean that's really but, you know, now that I mean,
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a lot of people download the podcast and it's becoming pretty
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well-known. It's very cool.
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Definitely appreciate folks, who listen, if you fear.
8:57
Listen to this. Now take a moment hit that
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thumbs up or subscribe or rape button, whatever it is.
9:02
It definitely helps when we get that kind of stuff done.
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So you know just helps us continue to to bring
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conversations and you know, stay event as vendor-neutral and
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agnostic as we can and you know we're still commercial-free.
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So all that little stuff kind of helps us continue to doing
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things like this. Yeah, absolutely.
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So, what I would jump right into a Jeff.
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I mean, you know, this was kind of like my crazy Oddball idea
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and we had a few folks who would very much appreciate you took
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the time to kind of record audio and the, I the question was, can
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you share an? I am Horror Story.
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And you know, these aren't like slasher movies.
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It's like where I am. Has gone bad or you had to end
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up working in entire weekend to kind of clean up a mess.
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That's the kind of horror stories that we generally have
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an I am. But yeah, if you have come
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through and I was like these are good stories and then you know,
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at the end what we're going to do is kind of share our her
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stories. Yeah so we've got four audio
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clips that will play here and kind of listen to and reacts in
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disgust, I've got a written one from a new member of our team
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here. And then yeah, You and I will go
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and then we'll end on a lighter note and I get things done.
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So let's go ahead and start with our friend Alec fry AKA for
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identity. He's been on the show a couple
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times and here's what he has for his Horror Story.
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Jesse and Jim for identity here. Why Horror Story here and I am
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was a long time ago in the late 90s, when RSA security tokens
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were all the rage my colleague and I were on site doing an
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upgraded, a customer's environment and the right at the
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key time. I'd said to my colleague, now
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when I say, I want you to delete the master database because
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there was a master and a slave or I guess we should Now call
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them primary and secondary server.
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But I said when I say Delete the data bison.
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He tap on the keyboard said yet done I said no no, I said when I
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say because it was some background noise he didn't hear
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me say that. So we both looked at each other
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and very quickly. Profuse sweat started pouring
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down our faces and I realized we had anywhere between about 15
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seconds and five minutes before that change was permanent and
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all users had been deleted from the system.
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So luckily I realized very quickly If we stop the server,
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make a copy of the database and started again, which we did,
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then the system was or ignorant. All systems were unaccessible,
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for a total of about five to eight seconds.
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So making it making sure we could recover really quickly was
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lucky, because there, the network was down from that
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perspective, only for about five to eight seconds, but once that
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was done, we were able to just copy the master database back
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and recover from it. But the most fun part of that
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story was right when we're in the To live that if that
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realization in the sweat was pouring down.
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That was when the senior exec from that customer site, walked
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past us. And said, how's it going guys?
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Everything good. We post just looked at as best.
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We could wait. Yes.
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So luckily it turned out well and everything was fine, but it
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was a huge scare. So from now on, I make sure that
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people don't tap keyboards and I, and they clearly hear me when
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I say when I say, go do this action.
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Anyway, that's my story. Happy Halloween.
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Okay, so I know I get your thoughts but immediately I have
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Shivers around RS 80 and having been on the operation side, in
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the logistics side of just trying to get those out there
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and I'm thinking like okay you delete a master the master
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database for the RSA server and you're going to have to go off
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and re-enroll all those people potentially have to do token
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swaps. Oh that is bad.
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Yeah that's what that's like the you just click.
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Sudden an email and your this story sounded to me, like, you
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just sent the email and you're like, oh no, did I send that to
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the wrong person to go to check? And you're like, oh my goodness.
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I didn't. But the way your heart would
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like, pounding out of your chest.
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I also was thinking as Alec was telling my story that, you know,
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most modern systems that are going to be cloud-based.
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Probably don't you have the ability to delete the master
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database, but if you do, Do might not be so easy to kind of
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stop the stop, the problem on the spot, right?
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You have less control over the system, so probably have a
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harder time inflicting damage but also a harder time
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recovering from damage. Yeah, that's the whole point,
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right? Is you're in the cloud.
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So you don't have to worry about that kind of stuff.
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So and it's not like you can just hey, you know, let's let's
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bring down OCTA for everybody because like, that's not it.
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That's not a, that's not a thing.
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Sorry, yeah, yeah. That's a good one.
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A like thanks for sending out one in.
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Let's go to our next one. Another person who's been on the
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show, Andrew chant the phone. He's got a lot of exciting
14:13
things going on. I think he's gonna share some
14:16
news here in a little bit with us.
14:17
So we'll give kind of a sneak T sneaked.
14:19
He's hopefully so Andrew when you're ready to share that, you
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know, let us know and we'll be happy to promote it.
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But here is his or her story. Hey, Jim.
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And Geoff Andrew here. And I want to give you a fun
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Horror Story for your podcast. So I work for a company that had
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a shared passwords used across multiple departments and this
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was a very common shared password that was actually
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shared among a internal messaging system.
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I won't name the message system and also has put on a t-shirt so
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which is scary and people knew it.
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Well, I found out it made me sick.
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Stomach as an IM person however we did get it to finally remove
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the usage of this password across all areas, this password
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was used for multiple things, such as shared accounts and also
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service accounts which is scary as it is.
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But moved all those passwords. All the any scripting language
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that uses that passwords do fault.
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He took care of source no longer being used but yeah, dumb
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something that is a scary horse or a diet of the great for your
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body cast. Thanks so much for taking my
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Horror Story and pretty scary. See ya.
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Okay, the path of a password made into a t-shirt.
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I mean, come on man. Really yeah.
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That was pretty bad. I also think, though it's
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Somewhat because of the time frame, we know that Andrews not
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like a old guy like me. And you I kind of was thinking
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back to when I first started in it having the password
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spreadsheet on a file share and somebody explains me.
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I was fine. It's Pastor the spreadsheets
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password-protected. Oh yeah and you can't break
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Excel passwords. I mean no notoriously difficult.
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Yeah, yeah. It's not like there's like
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shareware out there that you can do it for free and no problem.
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And yeah, it is said there were the service accounts that the
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passwords never got changed. Everybody knew them.
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I was like oh yeah well change them if somebody leaves.
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Yeah, right, I mean I'm speculating here but this half
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this has to have been like a really funny password or
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something was inside joke. But I mean seriously like if
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even if this was within the last 15 years, let's say like who
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thought this was a good idea. Idea.
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Hey, let's put our password and a t-shirt.
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Yeah, I mean that's I'm sorry, but that is, I don't know
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what's, I don't know what the right management term would be,
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but would be like, someone's going on a performance
17:05
Improvement plan right away. Yeah, the very least if not
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more, but okay, and her, that was a good one.
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Let's go next to a row. He landed in a whole tree.
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I know he's someone you've worked with in the past, but
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let's listen to Everyone. This is Rohit at military and I
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am a senior director of, I am at a Fortune 100 company.
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Both of these stories are about 7, to 10 years old, when I was
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working, as an architect in, I am domain.
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So the first story goes like this, one of the companies that
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I was working for was using Oracle identity manager, Why I
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am was probably the hottest idea tool in the Market at that time.
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And oh, I am uses SOA as their approval in je.
17:53
The approval workflows are deployed on the server as
17:56
Composites. When you deploy a new composite,
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you have to change the version else.
18:02
All in-flight request will be rendered invalid.
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So this company moved from the waterfall model to Agile model
18:10
recently and the team was still getting used to And new devops
18:14
resources coming in. So there was a lot of chaos and
18:18
not all the processes work correctly, understood or
18:21
documented. So now the deployment team
18:24
during the build, did not update the version in the properties
18:28
file and the composite was deployed over an existing
18:32
version. What that meant was there were
18:35
about 300, in-flight requests, all rendered invalid.
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Some of these requests were raised by senior leadership The
18:43
c-suite, there was no time for automation for any correction.
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So I am operations. Team had to manually raise
18:52
multiple requests which was high priority and face the backlash
18:56
for emails being sent out and overall confusion, it really
19:01
dented, everyone's trust in the IM team at that point and took
19:04
us some while for us to regain that confidence of all
19:07
stakeholders. But it did help in a way that it
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was a good learning experience for us.
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No, that switching the models at such a expedited way, was not
19:19
the best thing to do. Another horror story is with
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regards to one of the consulting firms that came in, I was a
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developer at this farm and I was tasked to create a custom engine
19:31
for rule creation. So this for the custom UI on top
19:35
of their existing identity engine.
19:38
A requester, can go in raise a request or create a request for
19:43
a new role, provide all the inputs.
19:45
It went through the approval process and, you know, the
19:48
generate approval workflow took place.
19:51
Most of these words today are being done in service now, but
19:56
it was what the client wanted at that time.
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So, while we were creating this engine for creating new roles, I
20:03
consulting firm was hired. This consulting firm came in and
20:09
they were tasked to create a role based access control
20:12
strategy in terms of what the nomenclature would be.
20:16
What the business rule? The birthright roll, the it roll
20:20
the application roles would mean, but most importantly, how
20:24
will they be created? What would be the mining
20:26
strategy? So, this T came in and created a
20:30
deck with all the buzz word bingos.
20:34
Also, an application was chosen for pilot for the about 30
20:38
entitlements, in 10 users. So this all went well until it
20:43
was time for real work. Now, what we realized was that
20:48
by strategy, did not scale There was a patient's like create
20:52
metadata for each entitlement which was unachievable to see.
20:57
The least there was also no regards for complex
21:02
authorization systems like Mainframe.
21:05
The strategy was very flat, very simplistic and not scalable.
21:11
Although the slides for very very pretty I would say that the
21:15
strategy was not worth the paper, it was printed on now the
21:19
higher management friend. Like all our team had to do was
21:23
done the model which was Northern Ireland feasible, nor
21:27
useful and we would be presented with this set of brand new
21:30
shining rolls, which was not the case.
21:34
So ultimately what happened was we had to go back to the drawing
21:38
board, to create our are back strategy and we then created an
21:43
approach which was scalable and more importantly, feasible, it
21:49
was a good learning experience. Dance, for all of us, including
21:52
the strategy leadership and the developers as to how to employ
21:57
these consulting firms. Thank you for having me on the
22:00
show. Have a good day.
22:02
All right, so this one involves two of, probably what I think
22:06
are more the more challenging things to roll out access
22:08
requests and are back. Yeah.
22:12
I mean they're and their standard issue like everybody's
22:15
trying to do these things. All right I think bro hit first
22:21
that was a really well to really well told stories and kind of my
22:27
react. My initial reaction is I guess
22:30
I'm thinking like career-wise, you have to go through these
22:35
hard times. You have to go through these
22:36
mistakes. Otherwise, you know, you don't
22:40
know what to avoid. Be nice too.
22:41
I think that our careers building one success on top of
22:45
the neck success but the reality is is like some spots on the way
22:50
you have to fail. And if you don't go through
22:53
those failures, your you I say you learn more from your
22:57
failures than you do from your successes.
23:00
Well, there are definitely a powerful reminder on what got to
23:03
be right. So you don't touch the hot
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thing. Oh, okay.
23:06
And then you burn it in your hand, right?
23:07
Okay, yeah, I'm definitely not going to do that, you know, I
23:10
think I think you're totally right.
23:11
Right. I think, you know, learning
23:15
through mistakes is great, from a learning perspective.
23:22
It does not solve the problem of the damage that can be done
23:25
though when it happens. I think this is something that
23:28
you know life is life is messy. Just like identity and access
23:31
management is you can have a great plan, it sounds like these
23:34
you know. I'm not sure who the Consultants
23:35
were came in and created this, you know, our back strategy and
23:39
yeah, it looks good on paper, right?
23:41
Very pretty slide which we love and Consulting, right?
23:45
But when it hit the real world, it fell flat on its face and
23:48
just didn't work. And I think that is, that is
23:51
something every I am program needs to be prepared for, right.
23:55
You can go through planning and strategy and like, yeah.
24:00
We've got this great plan and, you know, when it collides with
24:03
the real world, you have to be prepared for things that that
24:06
just don't go, right? Maybe assumption was off, maybe
24:09
something changed in the business.
24:11
You know, parameters that cause it not to work anymore.
24:13
And this, you know, this isn't specific to just to our back,
24:16
which is notoriously difficult. Anyway.
24:18
It could be anything, right? You can go through all this
24:20
stuff and say, hey, we're gonna get this thing rolled out and
24:22
then all of a sudden, next thing, you know, you're waiting
24:25
a month because you still don't have a development environment,
24:28
right? Something like that.
24:30
It's it's interesting for sure. Yeah, I mean, you know, the
24:34
other reminder that comes from this is that there are certain
24:38
kind of core ingrained, I'll even call them T-they're not
24:42
really information security or I am best practices and however,
24:47
you feel about that term. They're kind of the basics basic
24:51
blocking and tackling of how to do ITT.
24:54
You don't take your sandbox environment and wire it to
24:57
production, that's one, right? Like we all agree with, you
25:01
know, yes, you shouldn't do that and if you do, you are taking
25:06
preparing be prepared for the Fallout.
25:09
The other is, you know, over Communicate, you've got to make
25:14
sure that people know what's coming.
25:16
Another is try to pile it and, you know, roll out your system
25:22
to a small number of people who hopefully are representative of
25:26
the whole, but rather than impact, 100,000 people, with
25:30
your change, try to do it to 100 people, and then working on from
25:34
there, Yeah, I think rolling a 6 out, take a small group, always
25:38
make sense, especially if you can, if you can tie that roll
25:42
out to a part of the business that you're trying to make
25:45
friends with, right? So it's if you, if they go into
25:49
this and say, hey, you know what, we're on this new, this
25:50
new technology, this new business process, whatever may
25:53
be, and we think it's going to solve a lot of problems.
25:56
May be that you're having, would you be willing to help us test
25:59
this and be part of helping make sure this goes well for the rest
26:03
of the organization. I've never had a business unit.
26:06
I can say no, they always want to be part of this and it is
26:10
long as you set the appropriate expectation.
26:11
Like, yeah, we know that there may be some issues that come up
26:13
but we want you to help us make this right for the rest of the
26:17
organization. In addition to yourself.
26:19
Like I've never had anybody come back and say, no, not
26:22
interested, here's one of the hardest ones I think.
26:25
Overall, if you're a practitioner anywhere and it,
26:28
you know, specifically I am sure, but it's when you have the
26:32
executive pressure, like, here's some artificial date.
26:36
Eight that this needs to be done by.
26:38
And, you know, it's kind of like you're under pressure to hit
26:41
some date. But, you know, in your heart of
26:43
hearts, that that's not going to work or that's going to be very
26:47
bad, that's going to have some bad consequences.
26:50
What's the level of push back to give?
26:52
And I think that this is like, where take some touch and take
26:55
some maturity. Because if you signed up for it,
26:59
you're almost doomed to fail. And if you push back, you might
27:03
be seen as you're not a team player or you're just You know
27:07
to - to be, you know, able to move up the move up the ladder.
27:14
Yeah, I think you've got to be able to speak truth to power but
27:18
that that spoken truth needs to be appropriately message through
27:24
the appropriate channels in a in the proper way.
27:28
And I what I mean by that is diplomacy tact thoughtfulness,
27:33
right? I think I was given a webinar
27:35
yesterday and I was really proud of this analogy.
27:37
I came up with what it was like, you know, not everything is an
27:40
Avengers level threat right there somewhere.
27:42
You can get A good with just Daredevil.
27:45
Sorry sorry Daredevil fans but he's not an Avenger since like
27:50
you've got to be able to like way what is the risk versus the
27:54
reward versus the potential impact and if you're constantly
27:58
saying this won't work and it's because it's like a 1% problem
28:02
or effects like 1% I think you got to make sure you bring on
28:04
your messaging so certainly speak.
28:05
Truth to power, do not be afraid to bring up issues and you need
28:09
to have developed an. I am program that supports that,
28:12
right? It can't just be Be well I'm the
28:14
program manager. Everything I say goes and
28:16
everything that I say is the way it's going to be and it's always
28:19
going to be right. You've got to be able to take
28:22
input from all parts of the business, your own teams,
28:25
whatever may be. So have a, you know, a, an
28:28
environment where you where you do allow that.
28:31
And if you are the one speaking up, make sure you're doing it,
28:34
the right message, the right vehicle, right?
28:38
Have if you've got them stats figures, something right to help
28:43
make the case. Yeah, I was thinking of a couple
28:45
other tactics to one is, sometimes it's like, hey we're
28:49
going to roll out MFA to the entire organization by the end
28:52
of the year and here were sitting on November 1st, right?
28:55
You're like that's not realistic but maybe we could have the MFA
28:59
capability built or we can select a product or we could do
29:02
something that isn't short of this audacious goal, but isn't
29:09
that? No, we can't do it, right?
29:11
It's just hey, we're going to do it and I like it.
29:13
A stepwise fashion. The other tactic I was thinking
29:17
of is really to try to build support for your idea.
29:21
So if there are other peers in your organization who you can
29:26
kind of like hey I'd like to have coffee with you and talk
29:29
through this issue and here's what my challenges and you got
29:34
some other folks who have respect within your
29:38
organization. Maybe.
29:40
So maybe you report to CIO and you There's big audacious goal
29:45
is rolling downhill to you, but there are other folks who report
29:48
to the CIO and you kind of like talk through it with them so
29:51
that when you go and you try to propose this less than, you
29:56
know, less than the full audacious goal that you have
30:01
some folks in the room who are kind of in support of your plan.
30:08
Yeah. For sure.
30:08
I mean you don't want to be voted off the island because
30:11
you're by yourself, right? Dalliances?
30:15
All right, how about we get to our next one.
30:17
We've got Tom Malta. Another individual who's been on
30:21
the show before and let's hear from him.
30:24
Hey, this is Tom Alta. I am, I am practitioner and the
30:27
space for over 22 years and of late.
30:31
I've been doing Financial Services.
30:32
Strategic advisory work for a number of companies and I'm here
30:36
today to tell you a little About a Halloween Horror Story, and I
30:40
am. So, this goes back to my first
30:43
implementation of I am, when I was running the global program
30:47
that could Goldman Sachs, and we spent a lot of time building it
30:51
out and on the morning of the go-live, we were attached to the
30:57
HR System, obviously pulling an identity events from them and
31:02
doing automation to remove Privileges and that night, the
31:06
HR team sent Over a file that had all of the London, security,
31:12
guards in it. Essentially terminated and we
31:17
were scrambling that morning getting all sorts of calls from
31:19
the London office as to what happened and what broke down.
31:23
And obviously, later on, we found out that the file was
31:27
obviously a bad file and ever since that implementation one of
31:32
the things, I always advise my clients and what I've done in my
31:35
own program since then is to make sure That you have a good
31:39
Fail-Safe mechanism when you're attaching automation to any HR
31:44
System and not trusting a completely, because mistakes do
31:47
happen as in the case of this. And if she could imagine a
31:51
couple hundred security guards sitting out on the streets of
31:54
London trying to get into office, it wasn't a very
31:56
pleasant thing. So I hope that you can learn
31:59
from that. And I'm great to share this with
32:02
my peers and colleagues at the idec broadcast team and to all
32:06
of you. Thank you.
32:08
Okay, so the first thing I'm thinking to me is London,
32:10
Calling by The Clash and then I actually get into.
32:12
I am I mean, it's a good one. I mean, for some reason, I
32:18
imagine the security guards at Buckingham Palace with the big
32:23
hats. Yeah, but yeah, I'm sure they
32:26
weren't happy but I think Tom brings up a great idea which is
32:29
like you know, plan for the unexpected.
32:32
I mean if it especially in this day of artificial intelligence
32:36
to kind of look for something that just doesn't smell right?
32:41
And I guess you can imagine so many different scenarios but you
32:45
know, a whole department Being terminated at once not a real
32:50
likely as maybe something that should kick off some kind of
32:54
human intervention I guess I mean that you know some of these
32:59
things are probably tough to plan around but that's a great.
33:04
I am her story because like who you can just imagine five hours
33:09
earlier than I assume Tom was in New York City office at this
33:14
time. So he's probably being woken up.
33:16
Like yeah, nobody can get into the building.
33:19
Yeah, that's an F, no bueno. I guess, you know, score one for
33:23
the people who test, right, make sure that as part of your unit
33:27
testing or validation. It's like how, how many records
33:30
are going to be affected right by this change?
33:33
Is that number accurate, right? Is it, is it what you're
33:37
expecting? You know, I've seen that a few
33:39
times where you go to, like maybe update a Meta, Meta
33:42
attribute about somebody, or a certain area.
33:46
And you're like, oh, Shoot, I just did it to a whole bunch
33:48
more people. I thought it would be right?
33:49
And everyone now has like the same title or the same email
33:53
address domain subdomain order may be.
33:55
So, definitely something you want to think about when you're
33:58
when you're rolling stuff out is is the scale of the change you
34:03
know, lining up with the expectations are supposed to be?
34:07
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right, let's go to the next
34:11
one. This one is written from the
34:13
newest member of the Rockstar RS M, IM team.
34:16
This is from Brian Lindstrom. He and I have worked several
34:20
years ago in the past. I don't think this is when we
34:22
were working at the same company.
34:23
I don't recall it but who knows? Anyway well what's that?
34:28
It wasn't your fault, right? Yeah I will certainly not.
34:31
I mean he definitely is claiming ownership here.
34:33
This is a good one too so he writes back in my early days I
34:36
was implementing an identity solution and I inadvertently
34:39
deleted about 1,000 active directory counts including my
34:43
own. I first realized this when I
34:46
said Lost access to various applications and network
34:49
resources. I tried rebooting my PC, hoping
34:52
that would fix my issue. But unfortunately I couldn't log
34:56
back in and then picked my head above my cubicle, and start to
34:59
hear people complaining about losing access.
35:02
I slowly got up walked over to the active directory, guys, and
35:06
asked, if they could do a restore public shaming and sued
35:10
and a hard lesson was learned when making changes, make sure
35:13
you're not in a production environment.
35:16
So, congratulations. Relations, Brian.
35:17
That is a good horror story was going to say.
35:20
Yeah, we started off by saying these aren't / or stories but
35:23
that very easily could have turned into a slasher Story.
35:27
I mean. How good is that?
35:28
I mean, not it's not good, right?
35:29
Which is characterized it but from a like a outcome precise,
35:33
like I just deleted a thousand accounts including my own so I
35:36
can't even fix my own error. I've got to go to someone else
35:40
for help I mean that's the Walk of Shame right there it does.
35:43
Yeah I was thinking about that walk of shame kind of as we're
35:46
listening. Ro his story which was kind of
35:48
going back to Oracle identity manager, which kind of reminds
35:53
me of the days when you'd still have a lot of Mainframe people
35:57
or people who are like, from the Mainframe days and you get the
36:00
statement. We never had to deal with this
36:02
with the Mainframe, as if the Mainframe was just so perfect.
36:06
And there were never any of these issues.
36:08
So, yeah, I'm sure that Brian may have heard that echoing
36:13
through the hallways, as well. We never had to deal with this
36:15
with the Mainframe. Yeah, I lack of the Mainframe
36:18
one. I shot out to Leslie who I love
36:21
very much. We used to work together a long
36:22
time ago and she was a rack F expert.
36:26
I was not, I was constantly going to her to fix my mistakes.
36:31
Yeah. All right, let's wrap up with
36:34
horror stories for you and I want you go first.
36:37
Okay, so I was originally planning to tell the horror
36:40
story of my first big. I Am project where, you know, We
36:47
estimated properly the number of help desk calls are going to
36:50
have, but we didn't think they would all happen like
36:54
immediately on day one, but I've already told that story once and
36:59
you know, if anybody wants to hear it again, we could tell it
37:03
again on a future episode. Or I called again, but it
37:05
actually, they give like a true. I am Horror Story.
37:09
So, when I was at in financial services, working for a client,
37:15
I won't say that the Any name we're implementing a new, I am
37:20
system and it was like a major deployment replacing, you know,
37:25
a lot of manual processes and replacing a basically.
37:30
One of the things that was unique about it was it was like
37:33
the brand-new version. We were the first big company
37:36
rolling in this brand new version of software and when we
37:40
got to the first goal, I was like, you know, Friday or
37:44
Saturday night like you know, middle of the We're going to go
37:47
live and as we're doing all kinds of sat and unit, testing
37:52
things for failing, left and right.
37:54
And so, we get to the point of the go/no-go decision and made a
37:58
decision of no go. So in other words, he had to go
38:01
through our rollback plant. So this is why you make the full
38:06
cut over plan with a cutback plan because you may have to use
38:11
it. And so, we went through the
38:12
whole cut back plan, we were able to kind of survive winter.
38:16
Another month and like fix a lot of these problems and we got to
38:22
the next go/no-go night. It was like a month later on a
38:25
Saturday night, going through the whole thing, some things are
38:28
failing as a lot better than it was before, but some things are
38:31
still filing and like the the top consultant who's actually
38:37
like the CEO of the consulting firm that we were using was
38:40
like, and you've got to have some guts here and like, and go
38:44
forward with this thing and everybody was just like, You
38:47
know, looking at me because it was ultimately my decision and I
38:50
made the decision like even though we were failing on some
38:53
of these things so it's just feeling so much.
38:55
Pressure at that moment I said all right we'll go and so we
38:59
went and you know, some of the problems with like data
39:04
synchronization and provisioning stuff like that and some of the
39:09
problems were like, you know, like the data wasn't actually
39:13
synchronizing and I mean, I was on like conference calls It's
39:17
like everyday. Just literally getting yelled at
39:22
for about a month after that, we were like rolling new code every
39:28
weekend going through change control every weekend.
39:31
I literally was working like 80 hours a week for like a month
39:36
straight and then even then I would say, like okay we I wasn't
39:39
drowning at that point but it still was you know, tough Sally.
39:44
So you know, that was that's true.
39:46
Lee was a horror horror story. I think what I learned from that
39:51
is that, you know, one like if you don't feel like you can go
39:58
live, if you're in that go/no-go decision and everybody's like
40:02
pressuring you got to go but you know it's not the right
40:04
decision. You got to share the courage to
40:07
like say we are we're not going if this is Susan's mind to make,
40:11
we are not going and because believe me that pain that I
40:15
lived through the next Or weeks and it wasn't just working the 8
40:19
hours. It was like getting yelled at
40:20
and people think there was no way to pull a victory out of
40:25
that. Like it was going to be seen as
40:27
a failure, no matter how hard I worked.
40:30
Could you imagine that? We like, you're giving up family
40:33
time? I had young kids and everything
40:34
and like, you know, working 80 hours a week and, you know, it
40:39
just like your name is going through the mud so that that
40:43
truly was like my slasher. I am Horror Story.
40:46
That's yeah, that's a that's a good /, bad one for sure.
40:51
Yeah, that's a rough one man. I got questions.
40:56
So we're I guess how far along into your career where you is
41:00
this like a new Earth like when you're kind of newer or is kind
41:03
of middle, like how did you recover from this?
41:06
I mean, this can be sometimes seen as like a career sort of
41:09
limiting move, right? For some folks.
41:11
So it was like mid-career it was probably the last time I was
41:19
practitioner before going into Consulting and it was by far the
41:25
toughest one that I had here was what happened was prior to the
41:28
first, you know, pull out. I was not the I am program lead
41:36
the lead quit, I think he saw the writing on the wall that
41:43
like this project was heading for a crash and so I was offered
41:48
the job for me it was a major promotion but I also knew that
41:53
here in for some painful times I took the promotion anyway and
41:58
now I'm responsible for this thing.
42:01
And we're heading for the crash and like fortunately.
42:04
At that point we hadn't pulled the plug yet.
42:06
So that was the time and like we pulled the plug that we had to
42:10
work. Hard to still get the system
42:12
deployed but then on that second one I should have had the
42:15
courage to pull the plug again, but I just felt like too much
42:21
pressure. Have to go live.
42:22
It was a big mistake. Yeah, it sounds like it, but I
42:26
guess. It worked out in the end.
42:29
I mean, I I think if we pulled the plug we could have solved
42:33
some of the issues but eventually we did have to rip
42:36
off the Band-Aid and go live and then you know I think also being
42:41
alive gave us more flexibility to address some of the changes.
42:47
I don't know. I mean it's definitely I learned
42:50
a lot from it. One of the other things I
42:53
learned was do not. Stake your career on you know,
42:58
doing The Cutting Edge, latest version that nobody else has
43:02
rolled out yet. That's not that's not a good
43:05
career move. Yeah, you got to be really ready
43:07
for bleeding edge pain. If you could have bleeding edge
43:10
technology. Yeah, that's a good one.
43:12
I'm sorry, man. That's that's, that's a that's a
43:14
good horror story. Let's see, I've got to kind of
43:18
small ones that will close off with one is a story.
43:21
I think I've told before but it was New Year's Eve and I got
43:26
stuck creating like I do five or 600 manually creating five or
43:31
600 ldap accounts because I didn't have any Automation in
43:35
place and it was all stuff that I just saw coming.
43:38
I was like, you know, poor planning on the business side of
43:41
things like, oh we'll just give it to it, operations, and I am
43:45
operations. Kind of fix for us, was
43:47
contract. Related is like last-minute
43:49
stuff. I just remember, you know,
43:51
Christine and myself Christine was my counterpart on the
43:54
business side. And I was on the, I Am side and
43:58
just getting stuck proofreading and validating like 500, or 600
44:03
meters 5, or 5 or 600. I think lines on a spreadsheet
44:07
of people who needed these ldap accounts because the contract
44:10
said they needed him by January 1st.
44:13
I just meant being stuck at home, running through these
44:16
spreadsheets and flying through these ldap creations.
44:19
I mean that was, you know, this is this is years of video game
44:23
practice on mouse and keyboard and And dexterity, right?
44:27
It's like alt tab, copy paste, you know, move things around
44:30
really quickly but that was painful just because I knew it I
44:35
was very it was very early on in my I am career I think I was
44:37
probably a maybe it might have been a team lead at that point
44:39
or something and I saw it coming down the pipeline and couldn't
44:43
stop it. So it was really frustrating
44:45
because both Christine and I both saw it coming and couldn't
44:48
stop it. So that's one.
44:50
The other one is more of a night.
44:54
It all sound like a nightmare for Some people, it wasn't for
44:58
me and I'll tell you and I'll tell you why.
44:59
As I explained is, we were rolling on an IGA product and
45:03
one of the first steps that you go through when you're doing
45:05
that is you do this thing called identity mapping or count
45:09
mapping where you're basically taking all the accounts from one
45:12
system and you're trying to correlate them to whatever your
45:15
identity sources, right? Say okay, here's Jeff and here's
45:18
Jeff's account on this application, coincidentally?
45:22
Another ldap system. So we were going through that
45:25
process, For a few hundred thousand employees and
45:29
consultants. And I remember sitting in a room
45:33
with our identity integrator at the time and there was this
45:37
system that had like everybody in the company had this account
45:41
and and then some so there was a high-volume system and he was
45:46
giving me the bad news of how many orphaned accounts that they
45:50
found out of this platform which had I want to say probably 250.
45:56
Maybe 300,000 accounts. Which, for me at the time was
45:59
massive. I mean, I was just the sheer
46:00
number of accounts and, you know, he's sitting there and
46:04
he's like, like so, here's went through the count mapping
46:07
correlation. We tried to find as many things
46:09
as we could to try and map this up and we have 90,000 orphaned
46:15
accounts that need to be figured out.
46:19
Are they legitimate? Do they, you know, should they
46:22
be in the system stuff like that.
46:24
And I remember sitting there and I was like, Holy crap. 90,000
46:28
orphan accounts on just one system that need to be resolved
46:32
and wait and Wayne was the first.
46:35
I was working with me, he and I chat about the still to this
46:37
day. He was shocked when I said, oh,
46:41
that's not that bad. Because in my head I was like
46:45
there's no way we'll be able to correlate half of these.
46:48
So I was like, okay I was prepared for like a number of
46:50
like 150 200 thousand accounts, like something like that.
46:54
And when he said, 80,000. I was happy that there are
46:59
90,000 and he was like, you're crazy.
47:01
I like, what do you mean? There's 90,000.
47:03
I, of course, is a bad number and we ended up working through
47:06
it and kind of resolve some of that, but there were a lot of
47:08
Orphan accounts on that system that definitely need to be
47:11
cleaned up. There are like real orphans
47:14
like, oh, yeah. 90,000 how many we say were true orphans versus
47:18
you just couldn't correlate them, because you, whatever
47:22
rules you are using weren't good enough.
47:24
I think probably between like 50 to 60,000 were definitely like
47:30
those are not, those are not valid accounts because this was
47:33
a retail environment. And at the time, the retail
47:37
environment was allow that you could create your own accounts
47:40
and you can use whatever name you wanted.
47:42
And because those retail, we had a lot of, you know, people early
47:46
on, in their careers, or just didn't care where they would
47:49
come up with just weird names for accounts.
47:51
Some of them not safe for work, you know?
47:54
Some would be copyrighted. For example, maybe famous people
47:57
or care of famous, characters of whatever.
48:01
So, we kind of started looking over, as like, oh, I'm pretty
48:04
sure we're not employing, Mickey Mouse.
48:06
You know, for example, right. Or Frodo Baggins right.
48:10
Things like that. So, but we had to go through
48:12
each of those and sort of figure out, okay, who are the real
48:16
ones? Who are the not real ones?
48:17
Some were kind of, you know, whatever, what do we do, about
48:20
the ones that were clearly, you know, not suitable for work.
48:25
And What were the repercussions going to be for the person who
48:28
created it? Like stuff like that and I
48:30
highlighted a few different lack that controls where.
48:32
Yeah, there was just like this open system, you could call it
48:34
whatever you want, you could change your name to whatever you
48:37
want basically in the system and there was no like, no validation
48:40
around it. And store employees did not
48:43
necessarily have, you know, HR on mind when they were, when
48:48
they were naming some accounts, I think one of the things that
48:53
you have to do to truly say you're an, I am M is open up a
48:57
file that is like Annex shares like an Excel icon.
49:01
So it's CSV or some other you know, data format.
49:06
And Excel can open is like too many rows because I think the
49:10
Excel limit was like 32 thousand rows or something like that.
49:14
Time to go to 64 bits. Exactly.
49:18
Yeah, that is definitely. I remember requesting a ram
49:21
upgrade at the time because I think I had like a 4, MB MB RAM
49:25
and I just couldn't open these files anymore.
49:28
It was like, all right, time to go to eight able gigabytes of
49:31
memory. Yeah, I'm gonna have so many
49:33
spreadsheets. So many SQL queries are going to
49:35
get done. All right, let's go ahead and
49:38
wrap up this episode. We're going to we were thinking
49:39
about how we're going to add on a lighter note.
49:41
Do you want to go with your idea or my idea?
49:44
We can see both. Okay, you go first.
49:47
Okay, so my topic was today's halloween or the day that people
49:52
will be listening to. This is Halloween.
49:55
What is the best Halloween trick-or-treat, candy item or
50:00
non candy to give away your door and think of this Through The
50:04
Eyes of like 10 or 12 year old kid.
50:08
What is it that you'd want to receive?
50:12
Well, I am always happy to receive a Snickers bar that has
50:18
been my poison for years. I don't know about 10 or 12
50:21
years old. I think I've been just happy
50:22
about any any sort of candy, but if you're going to give away
50:27
candy, I mean, give away the full bar, right?
50:29
Like the full-size instead of those, you know, snack or
50:32
Halloween. I get it.
50:33
There's Financial things around there.
50:34
But if you got like a full candy bar for Halloween, you're like
50:39
in the money, right? Yeah, as he To give away the
50:43
full candy bar, then avoid the ones that people might not like,
50:47
like I love coconut. So if you do like Almond Joy,
50:51
Almond Joy. I would be happy with that, but
50:54
I wouldn't give that away because you're probably going to
50:56
have like 50 percent of the population of people who are in
50:59
be like, this thing is gross. So I think the, the way to goes
51:03
a full-size Reese's, Peanut Butter Cup.
51:06
Yeah, that's a pretty, pretty safe one.
51:08
I think like, if you go to Jim's house, like he's given away like
51:11
Almond, Joy and like, Don't know.
51:13
Black licorice or something like that.
51:16
Your choices is full so you know king-size Almond Joy or this
51:21
little Snickers bar which would you like to have and then I'll
51:24
end the night with a whole box of Almond Joy.
51:26
Yeah. And a whole bunch of
51:27
disappointed children. Who may egg your house or snag
51:30
my house and and put toilet paper on it?
51:33
Yeah, exactly. All right here's mine and here's
51:37
what I want you to come up with is what is the scariest I am
51:41
identity and access. Management costume that you can
51:44
come up with. I'd say it would have to be like
51:47
the salesman costume, the person who like calls you over and over
51:54
again to see if you have some need for their product or
52:00
service that you have no need for and for some reason you keep
52:05
accidentally answering it. So yeah.
52:07
That's pretty scary get up. Yeah yeah.
52:11
That's a That's a good. I just imagine like the
52:14
nightmare. It's like a whole bunch of like,
52:15
LinkedIn messages. That you curly haven't responded
52:18
to, like not getting the hint. You know, it's the emails that
52:21
you're not responding to its the, I don't know how it
52:24
happens. But some people have, like, I do
52:26
have legitimately, I am vendors, who call me on the phone on my
52:30
personal cell phone and leave me voicemails.
52:33
I can guarantee you that. If you do that to me, I'm never
52:36
calling you back, right? Exactly.
52:40
I don't know how I got that. Number is probably on my
52:41
signature somewhere. Just you know, had one number
52:43
four years and that's fine, right?
52:44
It's easy enough. These days to block it but I
52:47
mean who makes a phone call these days right?
52:50
It's all email. Yeah.
52:51
Well the other thing is like okay we're I am you know
52:55
strategy develop at least my LinkedIn profile speech to I'm a
53:00
consultant and people will hit me up and say you know desirous
53:04
em need like email filtering. Yeah I don't know, did you read
53:10
my profile and think that I'm a decision maker for email
53:15
filtering for our SM because if you did you're not too smart but
53:21
the reality is you probably just saw our SM or I showed up in
53:24
some, you know, spreadsheet that you got and leave me alone.
53:28
Yeah, my favorite is when I get the Mainframe, the the contract
53:33
Mainframe position, six months, we'll get her back, F expert all
53:37
because I somewhere have in my background like, you know,
53:40
administrated rack F IDs or something like that.
53:42
And I'm in a database somewhere. It's like, yes, I would totally
53:46
interested in a six-month contract in, like, northern
53:49
Idaho in the middle of nowhere to do Mainframe rack F.
53:54
Yeah, work or something but I'm not even qualified for like I
53:56
would not I would not hire me for rack F work.
53:59
If you're on the run from the FBI, be the perfect job for you.
54:03
This is true and I Den, it's not that Idaho is not a bad place,
54:05
is a beautiful place, really? I don't know if I would
54:08
necessarily just want to work there for six months on a
54:10
contract. Do Ring worker.
54:13
I hate for no idea how to do anymore.
54:14
Yes. There you go.
54:16
So, was that those that top your answer in terms of scariest
54:21
costume it dies? Because I was thinking, I was
54:23
like, I, you know, I it's funny. I asked the question I didn't
54:25
really have like a good answer. I was kind of taking it down,
54:27
like the technical wrote like some sort of like interface or
54:31
it's like, you know, file not found or, you know, syntax error
54:35
or something like that of like trying to figure out like why
54:38
things aren't working but I love / hate / of The persistent sales
54:45
sales, angle of identity. So the other potential scary
54:50
costume would be The Insider threat person so that person
54:54
would either look like, you know, it would be like the
55:00
person with a trench coat and a hat and like, Shadow over their
55:03
face. So you couldn't even see them or
55:06
they would be wearing that mask. Which I don't even know what you
55:09
call. It was like the black and white
55:10
mask in the guy with like the Hi Fox.
55:14
There you go. Yep, you know, it would be one
55:16
of those two and that person would be basically trying to
55:19
hack through your network, even though you work for the same
55:22
company. You're like, stop trying to
55:24
break our stuff. That's a very Niche scary.
55:27
I am Halloween costume. It's like, do that, like a sea
55:30
so convention or something like that.
55:32
Yeah. If you're walking around your
55:34
neighborhood, just like that, like, yeah, they might not, they
55:38
might not realize what you're dressed up as a might
55:41
misconstrue that So, maybe not a good idea, exactly.
55:46
All right. Let's go ahead and wrap it up
55:47
for this week. This was a lot of fun.
55:48
Talking through Halloween stuff. We did it again, almost a full
55:51
hour of Halloween identity talk. You were probably thinking at
55:55
home. There's no way they'll come up
55:56
with more than 30 or 45 minutes. Well, guess what?
55:58
We did it anyway. So we'll go ahead and leave it
56:01
for this week. You can find us on the internet
56:04
identity at the center.com. That's where all of our shows
56:06
are including our fancy new search engines, you can type in
56:09
a keyword and find all the episodes.
56:12
We talk around a different topics if you're looking for you
56:15
know, something on zero trust or MFA or ring.
56:18
And I am program, just type a couple words into the into the
56:20
search at identify center.com on the listen page and you'll be
56:23
able to find episodes of relate back to that.
56:26
And then, of course, we're on the newly Twitter, owns or
56:31
sorry, Elon Musk owned Twitter at idac podcast.
56:35
So interesting to see if what, if anything changes on that
56:38
platform but we are still there. And yeah, I think.
56:42
That if there is a other identity and access management
56:45
costumes that are scurrying that you want to either ping us on
56:49
Twitter with or drop us a note on LinkedIn, would be happy to
56:52
bring those up in future episodes or just have a good
56:54
chuckle you know offline with folks.
56:56
So with that we'll go ahead and leave it for this week.
56:59
Thanks everyone for listening and we'll talk with you all in
57:02
the next one. Thanks for listening to the
57:06
identity at the center podcast. If you like what you heard,
57:09
don't forget to subscribe and visit us on the web and identity
57:12
at the center.com.