Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Costumes for Dance Competitions - Creating the Total Package

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Costumes for Dance Competitions - Creating the Total Package · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_04: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
0:10
SPEAKER_04: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
0:13
SPEAKER_04: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
0:15
SPEAKER_04: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance, from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
0:25
SPEAKER_04: Costuming plays an important part in the dance competition world, from furthering the storyline to evoking a mood or a feeling to providing the sparkle and shine we all expect from competitive dance.
0:35
SPEAKER_04: Today on Making the Impact, we've chat with a costume designer and former studio owner, as well as an IDA judge and professional dancer, to stitch together the ins and outs of costuming.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: Hey everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Mueller.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: Hello, hello.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: We are so excited to be here, everyone.
0:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I'm a rural pumped for this episode.
1:02
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm pumped for every episode that we do, but this one, ooh, we're talking about costumes today.
1:08
SPEAKER_03: It's much needed to chat about.
1:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we haven't covered costumes really in depth in a long time, and we figured it was time.
1:16
SPEAKER_04: So we're super excited to have our guests here with us today.
1:19
SPEAKER_04: We have some uh some new a new guest and a previous guest, which Courtney I'll tell you about in a minute.
1:24
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I think it's gonna be a fun episode for everyone.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so to all of our listeners out there, maybe you're getting those costumes prepped and ready for the season, maybe you're already stoning those costumes.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, maybe you have no idea what costume you're going to be wearing on stage yet for competition, which is quickly approaching.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: We wanna share some tips and tricks from different perspectives on what has worked on stage at competition and what might not work the best on stage at competition.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: So it's gonna be a hot one, y'all.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna jump into it very shortly, but before we do, let's hear from our fabulous sponsors.
2:02
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2:10
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2:19
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2:20
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2:26
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2:37
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2:43
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2:48
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2:52
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2:56
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3:00
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3:07
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3:13
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3:17
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3:18
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3:19
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3:24
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3:31
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3:37
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3:44
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3:50
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3:57
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4:06
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4:11
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4:14
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4:18
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4:25
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4:32
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4:41
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4:44
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4:50
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5:02
SPEAKER_02: Alright, dance world! This is an exciting episode that we have here today because the competition season is quickly approaching, and I'm sure everyone's favorite part of the season is costume day, when you get to find out what costume you are wearing, whether it's for your solo, your duo, your production, your small group, maybe it's a custom costume that's made specifically for you, maybe you purchased it through a catalog, or maybe it's from a resale group, which is kind of a new phenomenon of the dance competition uh costuming world.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: We have a lot to cover in a little bit of time, and we haven't touched on costumes in a hot second over here at Making the Impact, but hopefully all of these tips and perspectives that we share for the next hour on this episode will help lead you into the competition season that is quickly approaching.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: We have two special guests joining us today to talk all about costuming for the competitive stage.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: And the first guest is a returning guest.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: It's been a minute since they've been here, but it's also a fabulous IDA judge.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: I've loved having her on the roster.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: She is spectacular at her job.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: You may have the opportunity to have her on your judging panel this season.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: And as a reminder, like I said, it's been a minute.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: Season one, episode 25.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: Cross training during quarantine was her very last episode.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: I knew I needed to get her back over here as quickly as possible.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to welcome IDA judge Katie LeBron.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Katie.
6:33
SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
6:33
SPEAKER_05: Thanks, Courtney.
6:34
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm so glad to be back.
6:35
SPEAKER_05: Um, it really has been a minute.
6:37
SPEAKER_05: I loved recording our cross-training podcast.
6:40
SPEAKER_05: That was super exciting.
6:42
SPEAKER_05: And yeah, I'm just excited to talk about costumes.
6:44
SPEAKER_05: I've been an IDA judge since I want to say 2019.
6:48
SPEAKER_05: Does that sound right?
6:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, because I think that that was like we started the podcast in 2019.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: So that, you know, then you did the cross-training episode 2020, and obviously that was a pivot episode for us because pandemic quarantine, obviously.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: And I think that might have been your first year on the roster.
7:05
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, that sounds right.
7:06
SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I've been here for a minute.
7:08
SPEAKER_05: I'm loving it.
7:09
SPEAKER_05: I'm also a director of a dance competition outside of IBA.
7:12
SPEAKER_05: So I see kids from all over in all sorts of beautiful costumes every weekend.
7:17
SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I have a lot to say.
7:19
SPEAKER_05: Yay!
7:20
SPEAKER_02: I knew you'd be the perfect person to share your judge perspective on this.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: So, Katie, since it's been a while, if you wouldn't mind, and also there's a whole new name change that's happened since the last time you were here, which you can tell everybody about.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: But if you wouldn't mind telling the world a little bit more about you, where you're based, where you grew up, early dance training, any career credits, and what you're currently working on.
7:40
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, absolutely.
7:42
SPEAKER_05: So I grew up in the Chicago suburbs.
7:44
SPEAKER_05: I live in Chicago proper now.
7:46
SPEAKER_05: I started to dance a little bit later than most, so I started really taking my training seriously when I was about 14.
7:53
SPEAKER_05: And I did the competition scene, but it was sort of condensed.
7:57
SPEAKER_05: So I just did that in my high school years and then right out of high school, got straight into the professional world, a lot of freelancing.
8:04
SPEAKER_05: Some favorite credits are West Side Story and Norwegian Cruise Lines.
8:09
SPEAKER_05: I'm also a NASA certified personal trainer, which was the tie-in with our last podcast episode.
8:15
SPEAKER_05: And yeah, I've really been loving judging for the past five, six years now.
8:20
SPEAKER_05: And I work as a director, which I've been in that role for about three years with a with another competition, and I'm loving that as well.
8:28
SPEAKER_05: Awesome.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: You wear so many hats in this biz, and you're killing the game.
8:33
SPEAKER_02: So we're grateful to have you on the roster, and thank you for joining us today on this chat.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: All right.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: Our next special guest is a brand new guest to our podcast, and someone who I am meeting here for the very first time, but I have known about them for a very long time through a dear friend of mine, Brittany, who was a studio owner up in Portland, and I had the honor of teaching her dancers.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: And she would show me so many videos of her dancers on stage in costume.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: And I would always say, Oh my god, who makes your costumes?
9:02
SPEAKER_02: The presentation was impeccable, down to every single detail, the glove, the hairpiece, everything about it.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: I was blown away.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: They looked, by the way, it's Elevate Dance Company up in Portland, Maine, blew me away with their costuming presentation.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: And Britney told me at the time that her stepdad made all of the costumes.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: So I knew the perfect person to bring onto our costuming episode.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm very excited to welcome Robert Duran to the podcast.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Robert.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad to be here.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: I was telling you this is my first podcast, so I'm super excited.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: A little bit nervous, but I'm excited to uh to discuss this awesome topic because I've had lots of feelings about it and nobody who really wants to listen sometimes.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: So we are here and you have a captive audience.
9:48
SPEAKER_04: I love it.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: So a little bit about me.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: I grew up in the LA area, and I grew up at a dance studio like everybody else, and uh then I owned my own studio called the Dance Place.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we were in La Haber, California for around 25 years, and then we closed right before the pandemic, which for us was lucky.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: I don't think we would have survived.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: Not only did I own a dance studio, but I worked for Walt Disney Company.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: I've done shows in Palm Springs, I worked at a school in Santa Ana called OSHA.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: It's a school of the arts.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: So kind of a lot of different experiences.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: My first love is theater.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: So that kind of explains my costuming philosophy a little bit because I think theater is so amazing.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: I love Broadway.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: I have four beautiful daughters, Brittany being one of them.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: And um, they both were competition dancers and then went on to the professional world.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Many, many different things from cruise ships to theme parks to sports teams.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: And then I currently have a daughter who is in New York right now at Circle in the Square Theater School.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: So she's living her best life.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: And then my youngest daughter uh just graduated high school and is getting ready to go into the biz.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: So all dance, all girls, all day.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: Family affair.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
11:05
SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: Well, um, I'm excited to learn more about your costume journey and your views and thoughts on that in this lovely comp world.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: So let's dive into this chat.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
11:16
SPEAKER_04: Cool, awesome.
11:17
SPEAKER_04: Well, we're so grateful that you're here again, both uh Katie and Robert.
11:20
SPEAKER_04: So thank you for joining us.
11:22
SPEAKER_04: I think let's start kind of with just sort of the pros and cons of a basic store-bought, not store-bought, but a uh catalog bot costume versus a custom costume.
11:33
SPEAKER_04: Why is somebody going to pick one over the other?
11:35
SPEAKER_04: What are the pros and cons that you guys see to each of them?
11:38
SPEAKER_04: Just kind of just a general overview and anybody can start.
11:41
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest pro for the catalog costumes is probably cost.
11:48
SPEAKER_05: I would assume for most studios, the ease of ordering, the fact that you can get them in a wide variety of sizes, look through that catalog, see what works for you.
11:58
SPEAKER_05: And then, you know, I know we're gonna get to it in a little bit, but usually they don't require a ton of alterations, maybe a little bit here and there.
12:06
SPEAKER_05: But it's it's usually you can just do the labor of ordering those costumes, maybe a little bit of up charge for your studio to cover whoever is doing that work, and then you're set.
12:17
SPEAKER_05: It's pretty easy, pretty simple.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: The convenience aspect of it for sure is definitely what I think is the draw.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: If you want to get 20 costumes that look the same, you know, uh it's easy to just be like, boom, there it is.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: It's already made for me.
12:29
SPEAKER_02: It even has the the title of the dance in in the description of the costume.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: I know.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: Some of those costumes have been around for years.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: You see the same costume and it's been like 25 years, and you're like, there's the little yellow polka dot bikini, yeah, you know, from from 25 years ago.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: I think cost is a big thing, but I've noticed now uh being on this side of it, being once being a director and now just being a teacher at other studios, that that cost has gone up a lot too.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: Where the idea of it could be more less expensive to get a catalog costume kind of is going away because there everything goes up.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: Cost of fabric, production, all of that.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm a lover of catalog costumes, but I always embellish on it.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: I add decals or you know, fringe or ruffles just to kind of always enhance it so that if you do to go to competition and another studio has that same competition or that same costume, we're not looking at the exact same, you know, thing.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: So whether I add a hat or gloves or you know, something that sets it apart, I feel like that's something that studios can do to kind of still be a little bit unique, you know.
13:41
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
13:42
SPEAKER_04: I think that's that's a great idea because I mean I I know the yellow polka dot bikini costume.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:47
SPEAKER_04: I think we all know the blue and white jet set costume.
13:50
SPEAKER_04: Like just you see them, that's what they are, and you see them everywhere.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's it's not a great feeling as a dancer to go on stage with the same costume as someone else.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: Like when you're standing backstage for groups and you might have a different song and you obviously have different choreography, but if you are like wearing the exact same costume, it just it's like, oh man, like how did they get our costume?
14:17
SPEAKER_02: The kids don't know any different, but the the studio's like, well, I mean, it was what was in the budget, it was the easiest to get, it was the most convenient, it fit the vision.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: And that's great, but like to embellish on it and like change it up a little bit, and hopefully, you know, just to try to tweak it enough so you're not standing next.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I as a judge, I've seen one costume exit and the next costume is the exact same coming on.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Exactly.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: It's a funny situation I've been in many times with kids who don't realize it.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: They don't know where your costume really comes from all the time.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: So they'll be like, How did they think you like somehow somebody stole their costume or you know, how did they know that?
14:56
SPEAKER_01: But um, that's why I think it's a a a great trick to kind of just add something that makes them feel unique or or special, you know.
15:04
SPEAKER_04: Totally.
15:04
SPEAKER_04: So uh Katie, you mentioned this, and I'm curious for both of you to kind of elaborate a little bit on because it's not a secret.
15:11
SPEAKER_04: Listen, it's there's no longer the days of the secret of dance studios charge a little bit more for your costumes because of the labor that goes into ordering them, taking the measurements, dealing with them when they come in, etc.
15:23
SPEAKER_04: Can can you guys kind of elaborate a little bit on what that actually looks like when you're talking about ordering costumes for an entire studio?
15:30
SPEAKER_04: Because I think people don't realize that there is a lot of labor involved and that labor should be compensated and somehow we have to do that.
15:35
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, absolutely.
15:37
SPEAKER_05: So that's never been my position personally.
15:39
SPEAKER_05: I've worked at studios, of course, but I've never, thankfully, been up to whoever does that, but I've never been the one who is in charge of doing all the ordering.
15:49
SPEAKER_05: But yeah, absolutely.
15:50
SPEAKER_05: I think dance studios are a business.
15:52
SPEAKER_05: I think we need to treat them like one.
15:54
SPEAKER_05: And I I don't love this idea that it's somehow sneaky or deceitful if you're adding on top of that.
16:02
SPEAKER_05: Of course, within reason, right?
16:03
SPEAKER_05: But there's there's somebody who is, you know, compiling all of those measurements, multiple different costume catalogs, going through all of those details, double triple checking, following up with the costumes when things aren't getting in on time, following up with the parents to make sure you got Susie Sally in Sarah's costume.
16:23
SPEAKER_05: It's it's a lot.
16:24
SPEAKER_05: So I think absolutely putting a little on top, you know, because if it doesn't come on top of that costume fee, it's we should see it somewhere else.
16:33
SPEAKER_05: You're you're gonna get a separate charge just for the labor.
16:36
SPEAKER_05: So when you're looking at the parents, it's like, okay, would you feel better about it if I said every dancer is just paying a flat, you know,$30 fee or whatever it might be that's going towards that person who's doing the ordering.
16:49
SPEAKER_05: But essentially, yeah, I think they should absolutely be compensated.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: Anything to add, Robert?
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that fees are important.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: I came, I mean, having my studio for 25 years, I would do most of the work, the the labor, and not get paid for it just because I wanted my kids to look a certain way.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, our costumes were always like 175, but they looked like$500 costumes.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: And I think that was the trick for a while.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: But then after, you know, I love making one of something, but then making 40 of something is a different thing.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: And so it's like to not get paid to make 40 hats, you know, right, even though they look amazing.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: And I think my parents got very spoiled with that.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: You know, and then you see the studio down the street that they don't know about that every costume is$500, no matter what.
17:36
SPEAKER_03: Right.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: And they're here getting$175, they go somewhere else, and they're like, Where's my$175 costume?
17:42
SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
17:42
SPEAKER_01: And and the fact that they look more than they are, it was just because I was able to put that time and care and love into those costumes, you know.
17:50
SPEAKER_05: Right.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: But I think now on this end, I think with everything being so expensive, it's just like anything else.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: People are willing to pay for what they're willing to pay for.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
18:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, one of the things that a lot of people talk about when it comes to this upcharge issue, or at least parents complain about, is when they get a costume that might not be from a book or might not be custom, and it might be from a forever 21, or it might be from, you know, a discount.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, machine style store, and they see the tag in the costume, and they're like, I could have ordered this for my kid for$25 total, and you charge me$200, you know, and they're upset because when you compare that costume to a costume that has rhinestones and feathers and fringe and this, and this one's a more solid, basic, contemporary, cotton, flowy whatever, their their brain is just like, oh my gosh, what am I spending this money towards?
18:47
SPEAKER_02: Which, like, I get, but at the same time, again, it's the vision of the choreographer.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: And if that's what the costume, that's what the costuming calls for, then that's what it is.
18:55
SPEAKER_02: Like, we don't always need feathers and tool and rhinestones to have a presentable costume on stage.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: And if there's a way to achieve the same thing, I mean, there are many costumes and costume books that look like a Sheen, a a Sheen like outfit.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: So we it's like there are the costume book is upcharging.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: Like, I could just go to Sheen and buy it for way cheaper, you know?
19:18
SPEAKER_02: So you just gotta look at it from a lot of different sides because, like, yes, you you you could have bought it for cheaper, but again, like we talked about, there's a lot more that goes into it, even just coming down to exactly the fabrics and the vision, what's gonna look good on stage lights, what's gonna flow better for your dancers, what's not gonna rip on stage.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: Parents don't know those things, dance teachers do, and costumers do as well.
19:41
SPEAKER_02: So those those are big parts of costuming dancers appropriately.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think with companies like that, you're always taking a gamble.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: Quality, you know, they're selling out, they can't get it.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: So, like those with a costume company, you can return something, you can exchange something, you can get an extra something.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes when you order those website costumes, I mean, you're really taking a gamble.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: So you gotta kind of get creep even so you're you're paying it, even though it's cheaper in the long run, it might not be cheaper because you might have to pivot because it didn't work or right, and like the horse you're gonna have to jump through to get it eventually.
20:18
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
20:18
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
20:19
SPEAKER_04: It's a lot.
20:20
SPEAKER_04: Well, and you know, growing up with my mom owning a studio and seeing similarly to you, like the labor that she put in, you know, when you even even just literally the search.
20:29
SPEAKER_04: Okay, I need a costume that's a three in one that's gonna fit a size toddler two to a size adult extra large or whatever it is.
20:37
SPEAKER_04: Like, whoo! And then you have to talk to all of your teachers and say, Well, what are your dances?
20:41
SPEAKER_04: What are your dances?
20:41
SPEAKER_04: Well, you can't pick this one, you can't pick that one.
20:43
SPEAKER_04: That one's sold out, that one doesn't come in green.
20:45
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I mean, I loved costume book delivery week at my house.
20:49
SPEAKER_04: It was very fun and you always got to look through the books, but it's it's an exhaustive process.
20:54
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, just think about how hard it is to like, you know, just buy your kid a piece of clothing they like and then times that by however many students you have.
21:02
SPEAKER_04: And so everybody's always gonna have an opinion too.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't think that parents of dancers will ever really understand kind of what goes into it.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Like you can be as transparent as you want, but like I spend so much gas going to LA to shop for things, pick up things, all of that, and they'll never get that.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: They'll never get why I need to be reimbursed for that, you know.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: And for a lot of years, I wasn't reimbursed for it.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: So, like when I started asking or or, you know, just putting that in the cost, then I got the question, you know.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: So I don't think they'll ever really understand it.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: And I think with that, I think that brings up a good n another question to lead us into is how much do costumes matter in that overall view of a dance?
21:50
SPEAKER_02: You know, do you need these high level costumes, whether your studio owner is investing their own time and energy to Like Robert did, where he wasn't essentially he was making them look like$500 costumes on stage because of extra time and labor and passion and love that he was putting into the costumes and not charging the parents.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: Or do you have to spend$500 to have that visual presentation to have you be memorable in the judge's eyes at competition?
22:22
SPEAKER_02: Or is it okay if you have that costume catalog book and the same dancers come out on stage after you with it?
22:28
SPEAKER_02: How far do we go when it comes to costuming?
22:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:32
SPEAKER_05: It's I feel like that that's we could talk about like just this question for the rest of the program and still have more to say about it.
22:41
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I think ultimately a costume is not going to get you a winning number.
22:47
SPEAKER_05: A costume can absolutely make you memorable.
22:51
SPEAKER_05: But if the number overall choreography, performance, quality technique is not there, you can have the most beautiful costume on that stage and you're gonna win the costume award.
23:02
SPEAKER_05: You're gonna win that.
23:02
SPEAKER_05: And that's amazing.
23:03
SPEAKER_05: That's great.
23:04
SPEAKER_05: Take that home, hang that up on the studio wall.
23:06
SPEAKER_05: Like you earned that.
23:07
SPEAKER_05: Somebody worked really hard on that.
23:09
SPEAKER_05: But for me, the biggest thing is that the costumes contribute to this overall polished look or like an overall clear vision for the dance.
23:19
SPEAKER_05: And if that doesn't go together, or if you know everything's kind of a mess, even if it's a beautiful costume, if we've got you know, we'll talk about this more too, I'm sure, but different things going on.
23:31
SPEAKER_05: Maybe we're not in completely matching shoes, maybe the hair is a little disheveled, X, Y, and Z, those things for me are gonna be more important than the costume being ultra beautiful and my taste.
23:45
SPEAKER_05: Because ultimately all the judges are gonna have different opinions on you know what what they do and don't like.
23:51
SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I mean a beautiful costume is amazing.
23:54
SPEAKER_05: It can take it over the top, it can make it extra memorable, and it can really contribute to the storyline too.
24:00
SPEAKER_05: That's what I love about costuming, but it's not that alone will not win you a number if the rest of uh win you an award if the rest of the number is not there.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree, Katie.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: I I don't think it's really ever about cost or price, as much as does it fit the the the vision, does it fit the theme, does it fit well, you know?
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Because as much as it can add, it can also take away.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: Like if you're looking at something with 5,000 rhinestones and it really doesn't speak to that piece of music or theme, that's distracting.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: But that being said, I think that it's one of the most important things because it is part of the full package.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, I know a lot of judges have said, oh, this could win even in a black leotard.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: It could, but it doesn't mean that it's gonna fit the same, you know, it doesn't mean that's gonna feel the same.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: Like costume to me is just like choreography.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: It evokes an emotion, it evokes uh a time or a period.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: And being from theater and working at Disney, like it's all about that magic to me.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: So, like when I look at some pieces, I'm like, oh, that would be perfect with like a hat, you know.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: But a lot of play people don't want to go that extra trouble to do a hat or a glove.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: But when you go to theater, you don't go, oh, that is missing that glove.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: You go, that is perfect with that glove, or even just the piping or a button, you know, those things to me completely blow me out of the water.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
25:27
SPEAKER_01: And again, where it's not everything, it is everything because it completes, I guess, the vision or the or the look, you know.
25:35
SPEAKER_02: Like the word piping.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: I don't even think that people know what that means and where that lives on a costume.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: Like I don't think that like we're no one would pay attention.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: That's why I was like, Robert, we gotta have you because I you care about the button and the piping.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: Like I care about the button and the piping.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: That's the thing, you know.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: It is, it's those details.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: And when I see that as a judge and I'm looking, like, you know, we talk about first impression all the time, and presentation and a visual how you visually walk out on stage, whether what your posture is like, your technique, and then also what are you wearing?
26:13
SPEAKER_02: Do you is your presentation looking good?
26:16
SPEAKER_02: And along with that, how does your costume look?
26:18
SPEAKER_02: And then when I zone in even closer, when you get closer to me on stage and I'm watching you dance and I see the attention to detail to your costume, I'm I'm I'm excited.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh my gosh, wow.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, sometimes it will be, I don't know.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: I'm just thinking of something that a song that has a theme of pianos, and then there's like a little piano key somewhere on the costume, like a little you know, a little detail there where I'm like, that's clever and cute.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, I'm gonna remember it.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
26:44
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's just a fun thing to add that I think just puts a cherry on top if you do it well.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: But I do think that there are times where I see costumes on stage, especially soloists in particular, where it's like, overload.
26:56
SPEAKER_02: It is just too much going on.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: There's a hat, there's a thing, there's a this, there's a that, there's feathers, there's beads, there's embellish, there's mesh.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, yeah, I can't, I don't even and I think they also think that like I've spent$600 on this costume, so my daughter better win.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, right, no, actually, their technique is possibly a hot mess still.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: Like, put that money into the training because this costume's not gonna hide all those flaws.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, I always tell my dancers, like, because competition nowadays, if you're in a final, you can win and lose by a tenth of a point.
27:28
SPEAKER_04: Right.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: And to me, that button is sometimes a tenth of a point.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: You've got things that are there, like it's you know, because that sometimes at the finals, it's not even a score, it's just yeah, a ranking, right?
27:41
SPEAKER_01: So, like to me, if that costume, like just even the color combination is something that's gonna be stick in their head, yeah, boom, that's it.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I've had judges before tell me so specifically they've been in a Fossy, you know, show on Broadway.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: And if I have a hat and it's not tilted exactly correctly, they'll come up and tell me, like, this is how the hat is worn.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: This is the angle.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: And I'll be like, noted.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: Put in my little diary, and you know, that's how it'll be.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: And so we can say that it doesn't matter as much, but it depends who's watching, you know.
28:19
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, not true for so many things.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
28:24
SPEAKER_04: It matters who's watching and who else shows up.
28:26
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, I think just as much as it's important to know what works, it's important to know what doesn't work.
28:32
SPEAKER_04: Because I don't want to see your Schindler's list dance with a whole bunch of rhinestones.
28:37
SPEAKER_04: It's sort of like read the room, read the subject matter, read the situation.
28:40
SPEAKER_04: Like I if it's if it's a certain subject matter, like we don't need all of that.
28:44
SPEAKER_04: You do need a black leotard, and that's it.
28:47
SPEAKER_04: And that's gonna be the most effective thing.
28:48
SPEAKER_04: And I think sometimes that's where people, if they're not thinking that way, it all gets muddy and then you end up being very confused.
28:55
SPEAKER_04: And as a as a viewer, that you don't want that to be the reason why you don't get a higher score or you don't get remembered because it's just confusing.
29:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: Oh, there have been many times I've seen like costumes that just don't match what's going on, where there's like an a uh we we feel that we have to have a rhinestone every time.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, you know, they're portraying Annie and the orphans or something, you know, and it's like they wouldn't have rhinestones on.
29:22
SPEAKER_02: They they wouldn't.
29:24
SPEAKER_02: So we have to like we have to scale it back just because it's competitive stage doesn't mean we need to have the glitz and the glam all the time.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, we can have a costume without embellishments, and I think that honestly, we're seeing that shift a little bit as we get into the teen and over like 13 plus.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, we're seeing that shift.
29:43
SPEAKER_02: Whereas like the juniors and the minis and the petites, they love a rhinestone, give the give it to them.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: But then after that, either the older kids are like, a rhinestone, I don't want to wear a rhinestone.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: That's not cool anymore.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: The more plain, the better.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
29:59
SPEAKER_04: Well, thinking about like preferences and different age groups and stuff, um, I wanna I want to hear your thoughts about inclusive costuming because I think over at least the past 10 years, you know, I think some of the books have done better with providing a larger size range and even in terms of like, you know, different gendered costumes being available for like a certain theme.
30:22
SPEAKER_04: But are we there yet?
30:24
SPEAKER_04: Have we done this well yet?
30:25
SPEAKER_04: Or are we still we still have work to do and how can we do better?
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31:29
SPEAKER_05: That's a tough one.
31:30
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I don't I wouldn't say that we're there yet.
31:34
SPEAKER_05: I think as things continue and sh to shift and change, we're always gonna have to shift and change and become more inclusive.
31:43
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I think most of the costumes that we see are very gendered.
31:49
SPEAKER_05: Like they are built for those female presenting dancers and most of the dancers on stage, that's that's what we see.
31:56
SPEAKER_05: But I have, you know, during my time judging seen a handful of dances where they put all of their dancers, boys, girls, non-binary, however these kids identify in the same costume.
32:08
SPEAKER_05: And every time I see I've seen that, it looked very much.
32:12
SPEAKER_05: I mean, you know, outside of perspective, I only know what I know as a judge, but it very much looked like it was that dancer's choice.
32:18
SPEAKER_05: Like they were living their best life in that costume, even though you know, maybe they're more of a male presenting dancer, and this costume is clearly like I've seen it in the catalog, it's on female presenting dancers.
32:31
SPEAKER_05: So I mean, I don't spend a ton of time like flipping through all the different costume catalogs.
32:38
SPEAKER_05: So I can't really speak to seeing anything super recently that's like stuck out to me as like, oh wow, this is this is really like kind of gender neutral.
32:49
SPEAKER_05: This can work for any dancer.
32:51
SPEAKER_05: But I think you know, a lot of a lot of who we are catering to, like these, these are the female presenting dancers.
32:59
SPEAKER_05: So from a business standpoint, that makes sense.
33:03
SPEAKER_05: And then I think beyond that, it's it's up to the individual studios to kind of break those barriers and work with their own students and and talk about like, okay, what are we what are we comfortable in?
33:16
SPEAKER_05: What do we what's our vision for the piece?
33:18
SPEAKER_05: What do all of our kids want to look like?
33:22
SPEAKER_05: How do they want to present on stage?
33:23
SPEAKER_05: What's going to be the most comfortable for them?
33:25
SPEAKER_05: And how do we kind of you know bring those two worlds together and find something that works best for everybody?
33:31
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: I think for myself being a dance teacher, a director, a a father of daughters, the question for me is not whether we do something inclusive, but whether we should do something inclusive.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: Like I have a big issue with eight and under dancers being not dressed enough.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, um, have showing too much and us normalizing that.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: I think I love my dancers to be farm animals, chickens, you know, whatever that because they're little, you know, they have their whole lives to wear those kind of costumes.
34:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: And to have that kind of intention behind that kind of a costume.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: I always come from the point, the perspective of more of a pedestrian feel in a costume, because I feel like it's more attainable to the audience.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, if your grandma's watching, she's gonna understand more of a clothed costume than a two-piece bikini barely there costume.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think if we think about it more as that, we're not gonna worry about like size inclusivity at all or gender inclusivity.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: I want kids and dancers and to feel great on stage.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and I don't know that maybe someone who's a bigger person, whether they're feeling themselves or not, is gonna be able to do everything that the dance might require in that costume that isn't really made for them.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
34:59
SPEAKER_01: Like I want kids to feel empowered and beautiful, and you know, I hate the word sexy because that shouldn't be in our competition world.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: It should be in our professional world.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: We want to feel seen, we want to feel like we're a character, like we can really just enjoy ourselves on stage and not worry about, I think, so much the idea of, you know, do I look good in this?
35:25
SPEAKER_01: It's more about do I feel, do I feel good in this, you know?
35:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes, because the one as as a performer, all of us, it is the worst feeling in the world when you can feel that something might be about to pop out, fall out, fall off, whatever.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Like when you are just trying to do your thing that you have been training for to have a costume malfunction get in the way because of what?
35:48
SPEAKER_02: Because of you're not wearing tights, because the costume is not made for you and it's too small or it wasn't taken in properly, or whatever the case may be.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: No matter what, the most important thing is for a dancer to feel confident in the costume that they're given.
36:03
SPEAKER_02: And I'm I we as we as audience and judge can tell immediately if you don't.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: Like it is all over their face, it's in their body language, they're tense, they're scared.
36:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, they probably dance for their life in rehearsal and they put that costume on, and it might not even be stage fright.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: It might be this costume doesn't fit me or I don't feel confident in this costume.
36:23
SPEAKER_02: And that's the last thing you want to do for your dancer.
36:25
SPEAKER_02: And I think that those types of conversations, like you mentioned, Katie, about just talking to your dancer, communicating to your dancers.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: Like, we I think we have to get out of that uh as studio owners and choreographers and teachers, out of that perspective of this is the costume I want and they have to wear it.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: It's like, yes, you can achieve your vision in many different ways, but also make sure everyone feels good about it and everyone feels comfortable in it.
36:50
SPEAKER_04: And I think it might take it, it's gonna take more work than just buying the costume online and saying, here it is, because you know, as somebody who I have to wear a bra, the end.
37:00
SPEAKER_04: I would never go on a stage with no bra on.
37:03
SPEAKER_04: But how many dance costumes out there have no backless most of them, which is the costume company's fault.
37:09
SPEAKER_04: So, you know, if your vision or if all you or if your vision or if all you can find is that backless costume and you have a dancer who needs to wear a bra and you don't want to see the bra, you're probably buying a second costume, chopping it up, and sewing something on top of that mid-back so her bra is not showing.
37:26
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
37:26
SPEAKER_04: Because, you know, if if we and that and like things like that are what I'm sort of looking at for inclusivity these days, too, is that like, okay, we have a lot of different needs out there that people didn't think about a million years ago, you know, 25 years ago, 30 years ago.
37:39
SPEAKER_04: Still don't, but that we still don't.
37:41
SPEAKER_04: And you can, and like you said, Courtney, you can tell.
37:43
SPEAKER_04: Some no nobody gave that dancer on stage who is clearly looking uncomfortable any options.
37:49
SPEAKER_04: They said, here's your costume, and it's up to them to figure out what to do.
37:52
SPEAKER_04: That's not fair.
37:53
SPEAKER_04: Like, I think it it really comes down to, you know, if we really had to go all the way up to costume companies, yes, costume companies, y'all gotta get it together.
38:00
SPEAKER_04: But then the second step is the teacher who says, Okay, what are we gonna do to make you feel good in this?
38:04
SPEAKER_04: You know, that's that's where it has to come from.
38:07
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
38:07
SPEAKER_05: I think there's a big difference between like asking your students, is this costume your taste?
38:11
SPEAKER_05: Is this your favorite color?
38:12
SPEAKER_05: Give me your opinion, X, Y, and Z.
38:14
SPEAKER_05: And are you comfortable?
38:16
SPEAKER_05: Do you feel comfortable in this?
38:18
SPEAKER_05: And if the answer is no, for any reason, like having enough respect for them to hear them out and talk about like, okay, what what what are your reservations?
38:26
SPEAKER_05: Is it physical discomfort?
38:28
SPEAKER_05: Is it personal discomfort?
38:29
SPEAKER_05: Like, I I feel a little too exposed in this, I I don't think this is gonna stay in place when I move.
38:35
SPEAKER_05: Like, you need to have those conversations with your students because you know, circling back, like you said, we've seen it so many times on stage, whether it looks like the costume is just not secure on them and you can read it in their body language, or whether it looks like they're just, you know, not having a great time up there.
38:52
SPEAKER_05: It might come down to personal comfort level.
38:55
SPEAKER_05: My teacher put me in a two-piece costume, and I I don't I would feel more comfortable, you know, fully covered, not having my midsters out.
39:04
SPEAKER_05: And we we need to make sure that these kids are being considered so that they can put their best selves forward.
39:09
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
39:10
SPEAKER_04: And just we don't need to see your belly.
39:12
SPEAKER_02: No, we don't need to see your belly.
39:14
SPEAKER_02: We don't need to see, I don't want to see any like the bra thing, Leslie, that you brought up, which I'm so glad you did because we've seen it a million times.
39:21
SPEAKER_02: It's like, I don't want to see undergarment.
39:23
SPEAKER_02: We don't walk around in life, like you said, pedestrian, Robert.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: We don't walk around in life showing our bra straps and the back of our bra.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: You you figure out a way to disguise that within your regular life clothes.
39:35
SPEAKER_02: So why are we allowing it on stage of competition?
39:37
SPEAKER_02: Like we we're that we're at another, like, we're at a higher standard at competition than just regular pedestrian.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: So it should absolutely not be seen.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: But for some reason, everyone's like, well, you know, I had to wear a bra and the costume's backless.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: Oops, sorry.
39:51
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, no, no, no, this isn't recital.
39:53
SPEAKER_02: This is competition.
39:55
SPEAKER_02: Like, we have to we get it.
39:56
SPEAKER_02: Even at recital.
39:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yes, even at recital.
39:58
SPEAKER_02: You're correct.
39:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, I know a lot of studios that won't even allow bras like in the studio, like under your leotards, and you have to wear a leotard that hides your bra.
40:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, it just depends on the preference.
40:08
SPEAKER_02: But again, like you said earlier, Robert, too, it depends on who's watching.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: And that could be a deal breaker.
40:13
SPEAKER_02: It could be a sloppy presentation from XYZ studio because your bra straps and panties are hanging out.
40:19
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's just what it is.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: And you and the funny thing in this small dance world is you become that becomes kind of what you're known for if it's a sloppy presentation.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's our responsibility as educators and and and judges and directors to kind of guide these kids because I would always ask, I had a student who I owned my studio with, with her mom, and she became a Radio City Roquette, right?
40:45
SPEAKER_01: And that job is so intensive in terms of costume.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: Like you have a 30-second full costume change with hat, with cheeks, with all these things.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: So I know coming from my studio, that's what we trained her for.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: But I thought to myself, what about these other kids who don't didn't want to wear a hat or weren't given that, taught that opportunity of how to pin a hat properly so it doesn't fall off, or how to do a quick change.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: Those are not preparing them for the real world that we live in.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: Whether it's concert world and you have 30 seconds to change, or it's you know, Broadway, it exists, you know.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: And in those spaces, when I go see a show, I'm looking for things like that.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm looking for the full presentation of something.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
41:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: Whether it's a minimalist or maximalist, whichever that is, I I'm I'm all in on that.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
41:39
SPEAKER_02: 100%.
41:40
SPEAKER_02: It does competition does prepare us for sure.
41:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes, professional, but even like life.
41:47
SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like that the way that I present myself in my regular life clothes, or like let's say I'm going to like a gala or something, you know, like I'm right, I'm pulling these things that I've learned from all my years as a dancer, costuming myself as a dancer, to like have double stick tape ready to make sure that that's there and to, you know, to pancake the strap if it's if it's showing, or whatever it is, like pulling from these like tricks of the trade as it within the dance industry that normal non-dancers would never know.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: So if we're not teaching them that, regardless if they become dancers in life or regular good old adults in life, at least they're gonna have a really good, clear fashion sense to know how to dress themselves as adults.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: Like it's exactly the thing.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: We don't want to see your bra strap.
42:35
SPEAKER_04: That's it.
42:36
SPEAKER_04: Except for that like horrible period in like the early 2000s where everybody's song hung out.
42:40
SPEAKER_04: Like, that's a terrible time now.
42:42
SPEAKER_02: It's coming back, it's coming back, like Brittany Spears.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, stop it.
42:50
SPEAKER_02: I we're gonna see it.
42:51
SPEAKER_02: I know we're gonna see it at competition.
42:52
SPEAKER_02: It's not it's it's not gonna be like a song, but it's gonna be built into the costume to resemble like that.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's now Courtney.
43:04
SPEAKER_04: You have to bring up your giant pet peeve of the nude panels to make people look naked on Leotard's.
43:12
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
43:12
SPEAKER_04: Courtney, Courtney will die on the sole.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'll talk about really quick because we know we're gonna see it.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: So I'm sorry if you already made your custom costume, y'all.
43:21
SPEAKER_02: You should consider changing that mesh to not tan or not nude or whatever skin tone color you have it set to, because it is not a great look for us to be putting dancers on stage to resemble them looking naked.
43:34
SPEAKER_02: And I don't care if it's a if it's still quote unquote a full body costume.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: There are so many ways now where they're having like these mesh panels that are like barely covering their chest or their the lower half, insinuating that there's absolutely no underwear on whatsoever.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
43:52
SPEAKER_02: It's so inappropriate for children.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: Like when you really look at it, I mean, I look at the costume, I'm like, this is a beautifully constructed costume.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: It looks great, they look great, but is it appropriate?
44:03
SPEAKER_02: No.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: And especially when we take it to the level of putting like t nude or tan or skin tone colored inserts in there to resemble this illusion of, ooh, wow, look, they're practically naked on stage.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
44:17
SPEAKER_04: Somehow all all she's wearing is a drape of fabric here and a drape of fabric here.
44:21
SPEAKER_04: Like that's what it's wanting you to believe.
44:23
SPEAKER_04: And she's nine.
44:24
SPEAKER_04: And she's weird.
44:26
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
44:27
SPEAKER_04: Great.
44:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've definitely even heard of like studios not allowing their dancers to wear any type of undergarment under their costumes.
44:33
SPEAKER_02: And I have mixed feelings about that too, because it's like, you're a kid, like you should have on underwear.
44:38
SPEAKER_02: Professionals wear underwear.
44:39
SPEAKER_02: Everyone's like, well, the tights are supposed to be the underwear.
44:42
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, yeah, but we're now we're not wearing tights.
44:44
SPEAKER_02: So like, what are you doing?
44:45
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, so you absolutely gotta have something on under there.
44:48
SPEAKER_02: You never know.
44:49
SPEAKER_02: Like it needs to be sanitary and safe.
44:52
SPEAKER_02: So all these things.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: But wait, I I have a I have a question though.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, where do we think that that fault or accountability falls?
45:02
SPEAKER_01: Does that I mean I that's what I mean?
45:06
SPEAKER_01: If I wanted to open a studio again at this point, like I would I've always had those rules, but you I would never do it because I'm a male and I could never like look at my students in that aspect.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: But the fact that we when I judge, people want me to have that idea.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: So like, where does that conversation happen?
45:27
SPEAKER_01: You know?
45:27
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
45:28
SPEAKER_04: I don't I don't think people think of it that way.
45:31
SPEAKER_04: I think it's so like you were saying, so many things have become normalized in the dance competition space.
45:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
45:37
SPEAKER_04: From for many reasons and from many places that I I truly don't think, like when you when you really take a step back and you're like, oh, she's she's supposed to look like she has a piece of fabric and a piece of fabric and she's naked everywhere else.
45:50
SPEAKER_04: When you when you point that out, then I think they realize.
45:53
SPEAKER_04: I don't think they realize it otherwise.
45:55
SPEAKER_04: I think they just think, like Courtney said, Oh wow, this is a beautifully constructed costume.
45:58
SPEAKER_04: Look at look at how nice that looks.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: And it is.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
46:01
SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, it's inappropriate again, it's inappropriate.
46:04
SPEAKER_02: Like you're like Right.
46:06
SPEAKER_02: What is dad thinking?
46:08
SPEAKER_02: What is grandpa thinking?
46:09
SPEAKER_02: I like do you do you feel uncomfortable, Robert, when you are judging and you and you see that?
46:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, is it as I mean a hundred percent.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that goes for costume and choreography and theme and theme.
46:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just like I think it's the world we live in, this really weird bubble of wanting to grow up too fast.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: I always tell my kids I blame Instagram because it's like we want to instantly be in a world we're not mature enough for or ready for or shouldn't be.
46:42
SPEAKER_01: But I think for me, ultimately, I will always look to a teacher or a studio director because that's I think where we have to, like you say, have a higher standard.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not gonna do that ever, you know, because maybe it's because I have daughters, I don't know.
46:59
SPEAKER_01: But that being said, I think we need to teach the younger generation, these 20-something, mostly male choreographers coming in, thinking that that's appropriate for any age of dancer that's not over 18.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, it makes me question.
47:15
SPEAKER_04: I think too, like you were saying about Instagram, you know, I'm not really sure.
47:19
SPEAKER_04: Like I didn't necessarily grow up having seeing any dancers besides other people at competition.
47:25
SPEAKER_04: Like I didn't have YouTube, I didn't have Instagram, so I wasn't even seeing, you know, yes, we saw Britney Spears, we saw Christina Aguilera, but there was never a world in which somebody was gonna say, okay, let's take that costume and put it on children at a dance competition.
47:37
SPEAKER_04: But now, because somebody somewhere put a costume like that on children, now everybody's seeing it, children included.
47:44
SPEAKER_04: But if if you see somebody your age doing something, of course you think that's normal.
47:49
SPEAKER_04: You think it's right, you think it's something you want.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: And they win.
47:52
SPEAKER_04: And I think, like you said, and they win, which, you know, it's a whole nother podcast.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: But I think if we look at the ballet world, that really it hasn't really hit there.
48:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think when you look at ballet, even contemporary ballet, it's still very from a point of class and taste and beauty, not sexiness and whatever that is, you know.
48:15
SPEAKER_01: So I I feel like in that world I see tastefulness and and artistry, but I feel like sometimes in our competitive world, I really I question a lot like people's intention with with costume and choreography, you know.
48:29
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
48:30
SPEAKER_05: I think a lot of people like I mean, clearly like what like we've been talking about, like are not being completely mindful of the fact that they're putting their costuming on children.
48:40
SPEAKER_05: And I think for some people it's not, you know, coming from a maybe just coming from a place of ignorance, which we still need to correct.
48:48
SPEAKER_05: But I think a lot of people are aspirational.
48:50
SPEAKER_05: They're like they just get attached to an idea and they think this is so beautiful.
48:54
SPEAKER_05: And and Courtney, I hear you with the mesh inserts, and I I don't have as strong of an opinion on it, but I hear you.
49:01
SPEAKER_05: There's there's some where I'm like, okay, that you know, that's that doesn't bother me as much, and then there's some where I'm like, well, you know, and I I think the biggest thing is we're all going to have different ideas of what's appropriate and what's not, and I kind of lean back from having too much of an opinion on that, and that's probably because I don't have children, you know.
49:20
SPEAKER_05: So I look at my students and I'm like, that is ultimately for you and your families to decide.
49:26
SPEAKER_05: I've worked in competitions where there were studios that were so conservative that they wore long-sleeve turtleneck layers under all of their costumes, and then the next studio that came on stage was like, you know, wearing nothing, mesh inserts and fabric, you know, like in the same competition back to back.
49:43
SPEAKER_05: But I think like circling back, the most important thing is if I, as a judge, am looking at your mesh insert or your applique on the bodice, and that's like you know, this cluster of applique is the only thing covering you here or here.
49:57
SPEAKER_05: And I am concerned that something may slip or shift or move out of place, it's a bad costume.
50:03
SPEAKER_05: It's not a good idea.
50:04
SPEAKER_05: Like if there is if there's any chance that as a judge watching, I am going to be concerned that something you know causes you to be uncovered at any point, you we need to go back to the drawing board.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: I think in terms of competition too, like if that's what you're thinking as a judge, you're not judging right.
50:23
SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
50:24
SPEAKER_01: The mind is there, right?
50:26
SPEAKER_05: And I feel terrible like trying to focus and trying to give these kids good feedback while simultaneously like having a position in hand about to pass down and be like, Hey, should we call it?
50:37
SPEAKER_05: Because I'm really worried that this child's strap is gonna break or this is gonna cause them to be exposed.
50:42
SPEAKER_05: And like, we need to protect this kid because nobody did the due diligence ahead of time to make sure that we weren't sitting in our seats panicking, watching this number.
50:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
50:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it makes our job extremely hard.
50:53
SPEAKER_02: It makes the dancer's job really hard.
50:55
SPEAKER_02: It puts them in a really dangerous situation because everything's on camera, everything's on video, and things are live streamed now.
51:01
SPEAKER_02: There's an entire audience out there, you don't know who's sitting out there.
51:04
SPEAKER_02: Like there's so many issues at hand when it comes to a costume.
51:09
SPEAKER_02: And the other thing we have to remember, especially at this point in the season, which it's October, um, is that kids are gonna grow.
51:18
SPEAKER_02: Kids are growing.
51:19
SPEAKER_02: By the time they get to May, that costume probably won't fit them anymore.
51:23
SPEAKER_02: Some of them.
51:24
SPEAKER_02: And it depends on how quickly they're growing.
51:26
SPEAKER_02: So you have to keep that in mind that like you actually would rather get a a costume, if you know they're about to hit their growth spur, you actually would rather go probably a size up and you can always take in and let out, but you can't make a costume get bigger over time.
51:43
SPEAKER_02: So you have to think ahead when it comes to that.
51:45
SPEAKER_02: And like that's another like trick of the trade, because that's what they do for every professional show.
51:51
SPEAKER_02: And we've all been in them where they're like, they make the costumes like two sizes too big, and they just take them in on the all of the sides.
51:59
SPEAKER_02: They they release the hem, leave a little ham.
52:01
SPEAKER_02: Yep, they sew it in, they release the gusset here and there, and you know, yeah, they make it work because these costumes are going to be used for 10 years at a time.
52:08
SPEAKER_02: But like, we have to look at that perspective when a kid is growing that you know, we have to because I don't want to see booty cheeks by nationals.
52:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I think I think the perspective too has to come from the teacher or the director to have that kind of foresight to go, this has to last.
52:26
SPEAKER_01: And I want my dancer to look good throughout the year.
52:29
SPEAKER_01: I I mean, we're gonna go the extra mile to make sure they always look amazing on stage every time it goes on, whether it's in October or May.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: Like we should always be thinking about adjusting that costume and making sure they haven't outgrown it, you know?
52:43
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
52:44
SPEAKER_02: Because we have to wrap up very momentarily.
52:46
SPEAKER_02: I would love to hear some final tips or tricks or advice from your time as dance teachers, as choreographers, or even as professionals that you could give to some of our listeners out there, maybe things that you love to do for your dancers, maybe little presentational um details that you always is like your signature that you add to your costumes or that you love seeing as a judge.
53:10
SPEAKER_02: Anything come to mind?
53:11
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean, I think Robert will have more on this than I will for sure, but I just feel like it it all comes down to how polished it is, right?
53:20
SPEAKER_05: Like hairspray is your best friend.
53:22
SPEAKER_05: It's not that hard.
53:23
SPEAKER_05: I know we talk about being cost effective and you know, respecting that studios are in different places with that.
53:28
SPEAKER_05: Hairspray is not expensive.
53:30
SPEAKER_05: Please like invest in hairspray.
53:32
SPEAKER_05: Make sure that you guys are all really on the same page when it comes to hairstyles and makeup and any accessories.
53:40
SPEAKER_05: Sometimes I see little variations and it is distracting.
53:42
SPEAKER_05: And as a judge, I'm not going to blame the students.
53:46
SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna, you know, direct that towards the choreographer, studio owner that they need to have a little bit more of a discerning eye.
53:52
SPEAKER_05: So I'll never take away points for it, but I it is distracting and it might, you know, make you, like we've talked about, less memorable than a dance where the vision was really clear.
54:04
SPEAKER_05: So I just think making sure everything is, you know, nice and polished as far as hair and makeup goes, making sure that all the costumes fit you really well, that's gonna be the biggest thing for me.
54:15
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
54:16
SPEAKER_01: For me, I think my biggest tip would be use your creativity.
54:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think you need to be sometimes the one that is unique in a land of a thousand and ten contemporaries, you know, a thousand and ten little black rain cloud numbers.
54:34
SPEAKER_01: Be the sunshine in that moment, you know, make those judges smile.
54:38
SPEAKER_01: Dance is about feeling and joy is one of those feelings.
54:42
SPEAKER_01: And so if like my little hand-painted button down the jacket can bring somebody a smile or make somebody connect what I'm doing, you know, I feel like then that's our job as artists is to really try to not be like the person next to you, you know.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: Try to stand out, and and that helps for the kids feeling great.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, some of my dances that may not have won at a competition definitely are the dances that someone might come back and go, oh, I remember that.
55:11
SPEAKER_01: And it's not based on technique or, you know, flexibility.
55:16
SPEAKER_01: It's based on the look and the the they'll remember the song, they'll remember the vibe, the vibe, the look of the costume.
55:23
SPEAKER_01: So it is an important thing that I think if we add to what we're already doing, can really help us like with success.
55:31
SPEAKER_01: And also teaching this next generation of dancers like how important it is to the look of what you're doing, also, not just so much the technique.
55:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're not all gonna be the best dancers, but we have to give something else that we can offer.
55:45
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's a sense of style or a sense of you know character.
55:49
SPEAKER_01: And I think costume definitely helps with that.
55:54
SPEAKER_02: We hope you enjoyed our latest episode all about costuming for the competitive stage.
55:59
SPEAKER_02: Special shout out to Katie and Robert for joining us on the special chat.
56:02
SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to follow them on Instagram.
56:04
SPEAKER_02: You can find Katie at Katie.
56:12
SPEAKER_02: R Duran Choreography.
56:15
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56:44
SPEAKER_02: Competition season is right around the corner.
56:47
SPEAKER_02: And if you're looking for expert guidance to polish and perfect your routine before hitting the stage, then be sure to check out our popular service, IDA's Online Judges Critiques.
56:56
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57:00
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57:06
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57:23
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57:47
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57:50
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57:52
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58:00
SPEAKER_04: Season six is underway with episodes coming up, including winter and summer intensives, a chat about levels, and our 200th episode celebration.